Pathfinder

[craggy thunder]

The most information is iirc regarding the Monastery of Unbreaking Waves?

[frank crystal]

Ah Alright

Also for my monk I’m realizing

The first air focus spell school of perfection gets is just a better version of Qi rush

So once I get it, I’ll probably trade in qi rush for like, something else I’m not sure

Probably either stunning blows or crushing grab

Depends how much I wanna go into maneuvers in this character

They’re a strength monk so I could

Y’all think I should go flurry of maneuvers or divert streamflow?

Do monks have average perception or better?

[craggy thunder]

Better iirc

They are the gods of saves and perception

[craggy thunder]

Divert streamflow, maneuvers is meh outside being specifically built for

[frank crystal]

Cool

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s what I’m kinda thinking

I’m just wondering if I should partially build into it

But also my stance doesn’t do anything for it

It’s a movement and damage stance

[craggy thunder]

Also like it's a House of Perfection feat, take it for the House monk lol

[west sky]

huh, bards, fighers, rangers, swashbucklers, rogues and gunslingers are already initially expert in perception at lvl 1 but monks are merely trained, so i assume monks are just average

expert at 5 though

[frank crystal]

Which one?

[craggy thunder]

divert streamflow

[frank crystal]

Oh you mean flavor wise

For some reason I thought you meant one of the feats was available via the archetype

When I was sure neither were

[craggy thunder]

nah

[frank crystal]

Hmm, what would be a good place for a like, low level mob thug to exists and maybe have access to some diabolic dragon blood to drink?

[silver geyser]

Hell.

But maybe Cheliax.

[frank crystal]

What’s that?

[vocal ember]

Like the Hell empire basically

[clever cobalt]

Hell worshipping empire more like

[rustic cape]

Don't monks specifically have subpar perception?

[clever cobalt]

They're basically Hell-Worshipping Imperialist Fascists

[vocal ember]

Iirc the state religion was Aroden, then he died, and Asmodeus won out in the end

[clever cobalt]

And are one of the bigger "bad guys" of Golarion

It was yeah

[frank crystal]

Hmm, admittedly I do think this character works better if like, the diabolic dragon blood isn’t like… super super common

Like it’s more something smuggled in and considered super dangerous

What’s a Golarion nation with a lot of like, criminal gangs

[turbid dagger]

Still Cheliax honestly
Cheliax probably moves that needle from 'where did you even get this' to 'not super super common', in fact

[frank crystal]

Fair yah

How bad is cheliax for the average person anyway?

Is it like, a normal amount of bad that living in an evil empire

Or like, constantly having your friends and family sacrificed to devils?

[vocal ember]

I think closer to normal?

[turbid dagger]

This is the predominant architectural style in Cheliax

It's a 'literally trying to be Evil, like the capital E concept of it' police state

[frank crystal]

Ah, rad

So yah for the average citizen it’s like, a horribly evil police state

But also not being sacrificed 24/7

Are there elves there?

[vocal ember]

The vibe I get is that there aren't that many, but it hardly inconceivable. Since it's relatively close to Kyonin and such.

[frank crystal]

Sweet

What metal are devils associated with?

Brass right?

[vocal ember]

I don't remember devils being associated with any metal besides being vulnerable to silver, but I'm no expert.

[turbid dagger]

Black iron is their preferred aesthetic but there's no Infernium or somesuch

[frank crystal]

Alright

I just had the idea of like, his former boss having the title “metal hands”

With the metal being whatever devils use

[vocal ember]

I guess the logical conclusion then is that the name must have been Iron Fist

[frank crystal]

That would make sense yah but unfortunately

https://tenor.com/view/iron-fist-marvel-rivals-marvel-rivals-gif-12780761128257719697

That’s already taken

[turbid dagger]

As noted, Silver is a devil's vulnerability
So that might also work as a Chelaxian underworld bosses name

[frank crystal]

Oh yah

[turbid dagger]

Cuz the authorities (diabolists and devils) fear him

[frank crystal]

A force of crime would be opposed to the devils who run the place

Yah I like that idea

Like he got the name from beating a devil to death with his bare hands

(Like a high level anyway, beating an imp to death isn’t super impressive)

[frank crystal]

Does base speed affect the chase rules?

[turbid dagger]

Nah- if it's notably higher than the average you might give a circumstance bonus to checks where it's relevant

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

[frank crystal]

Hmm, actually, instead of ingesting the dragon blood, could work better with his whole theme if they were like, made into tattoos

Like combined with ink and uses as tattoo ink

[eager mountain]

theres a reason my gnome hates the country she was born in

albiet she was born on the edge of it

[frank crystal]

I think for this character it’d make more sense for him to have been born in like, a major city

[craggy thunder]

oh god Alaizia was Chelaxian?

yikes

[surreal basin]

Testing out mechanic and Technomancer tonight

I’m playing a turret mechanic

I was gonna do drone but…. I can’t really figure out how to build it lol

It seems like they might exclusively be melee guys?

[turbid dagger]

Turret does seem like the coolest one
Weirdly!

[echo briar]

You know what the books need? An index.

I am trying to find what monsters from monsters of myth are in the Mwangi, and i apparently have to search every creature to find out if I use a physical book.

[eager mountain]

She’s from Brastlewark

Supriiiiseee

[eager mountain]

lol is that such a big shock?

[craggy thunder]

I mean no it's not shocking it's

Oh boy I know how gnomes and halflings are treated in Cheliax

[eager mountain]

Oh are gnomes treated poorly?

The most I know about gnomes in cheliax is that they are a “ model minority” kept around for thier usefulness in building stuff for the state

[clever cobalt]

yeah I think Gnomes are that

Halflings though

don't be a halfling in Cheliax

[eager mountain]

Or do for tragic backstory

[craggy thunder]

Ah

[eager mountain]

You recently got a “ care package “ after you were “ freed” by the queen

[warped orbit]

I'm pretty partial to Mines as well honestly

which kinda surprised me

but yeah Turret also seems very good

the Drone weirdly is the least interesting one for me

[surreal basin]

Drone is just like

An animal companion

[eager mountain]

pretty much

[warped orbit]

yeah, but I find that in comparison kinda less interesting

[surreal basin]

I mean yeah I wasn’t arguing with u

[frank crystal]

I forget, do monks have a penalty to lethal attacks even with a non lethal unarmed attack?

[warped orbit]

Powerful Fist obviates that

[frank crystal]

Right yah

So I can just do lethal or non lethal with no penalties to either

[rustic cape]

Yes

[warped orbit]

If the unarmed attack has non lethal yes

There are a few that don't

[rustic cape]

Half orc brutal blows also requires a lethal hit

For all that matters

(It doesn’t)

Er, orc

[frank crystal]

It does not for this

[light gyro]

my wizard keeps plotting around using ferrous form on themselves and i dunno man it's kind of total ass as a spell

[rustic cape]

Is it? It gives you a lot of nice immunities

Hour long duration is pretty solid too

[warped orbit]

the defensive benefits of it are the main draw IMO yeah

[light gyro]

first time they cast it the wizard died horrifically, second time they wanted to cast it was against a creature who had a secondary ability with poison but was mostly a phys/acid beast. which might have combined to bias me against the spell

in any case they won without it, and are 20th level!!! yippee!!!!

[echo briar]

So Paizo is officially aware of this meme. Do you think they are going to pull a dinosaur fort and make this a real monster?

Because a level 25 primal boar would go hard

[rustic cape]

Wouldn't be the first gigantic terrifying animal

[wary yoke]

I'll laugh if they turn the meme into a new spawn of rovagug

[clever cobalt]

How bound are Devils to their nature? Can they become something other than Devils?

Well I suppose Noctula exists, even if she's technically a (former) Demon Lord

[surreal basin]

Outsiders can defy their nature with great effort

No reason to think devils can’t

[limber comet]

It's just VERY very rare

[keen raptor]

There's also Arueshalae in Wrath of the Righteous (not sure how different her portrayal is in the AP though)

Again, Demon not Devil but still an outsider

[rustic cape]

Ember does a bunch of demon-reforming stuff too

[keen raptor]

Oh yeah, forgot about those guys. She's outright responsible for ||Nocticula's face-turn if you pursue the good end to her quest too||

[rustic cape]

Or at least she catalyzes it — as she points out, ||Big N is already most of the way there||

[wary yoke]

Finally had a proper talk with my GM about my problems with his campaign so far... I don't know if any of my arguments made an impact

[wary yoke]

I’m considering retiring my character and bringing a new one that has more out-of-combat utility, since the GM has said that he cannot commit to at least one combat per session

[echo briar]

just force one combat a session by attacking random NPCs

[wary yoke]

Ironically there was a perfect opportunity to do that when we were going through a checkpoint controlled by state church, which my character wants to take down. But we were laying low then, and we had a church-affiliated NPC travelling with us we would need to deal with.

The GM said that looking at the group he wanted to prioritize roleplaying, but I told him that if we weren't going to use PF2E's systems for that either, then why were we going to all the trouble to convert our setting to 2E?

[frank crystal]

What’s good magic items to have in a vampire’s lair?

[errant roost]

a lovingly maintained gallery of gear from failed vampire hunters (silver, undead-busting gear, artificial sunlight, questionable herbal vampire repellants)

[ocean cobalt]

magic parasol (statted as a staff or a wand or something if one doesnt already exist)

[turbid dagger]

If you are looking for actual magic items star blocks, maybe look at Shades Of Blood on nethys and see what items it introduced
Book of the Dead, also

[surreal basin]

is pistolero gunslinger

useable

[frank crystal]

I’d say so yah

I’ve had several pistolero players have a lot of success

Free intimidate is just really useful on its own

[warped orbit]

it's fine

[rustic cape]

Hm ... favorite grapple-escaper spells?

[echo briar]

Can I just say, I love secret checks

SoTs, the party has to investigate this substance. Alchemist rolls a nat 1 twice in a row, so if corse I claim it’s a bomb. Then we have the greatest 20 minutes of RP yet as they desperately try and save lives that were never in danger

[surreal basin]

Lmao

[turbid dagger]

Dive And Breach
Damage all around you and a 50 feet teleport

[rustic cape]

Does that work? If the grapple prevents you from doing a Leap?

Good spell for animists tho

[light gyro]

grabbed grants immobilized, which forbids any use of an action with the move trait (which Leap has), so probably not

[rustic cape]

Yeeeah

Flicker can be really nice for countering fights with grab-happy enemies

I was just wondering if there was any nice one-and-done stuff

[light gyro]

i ruled the magus' focus spell dimensional assault lets them slip a grapple even if they just teleport to the other side of an enemy, which may or may not be rules compliant

[rustic cape]

As I wrap the Strength of Thousands game that I'm in, I've been thinking a lot about things I've learned about playing a caster

And one of those things is the sort of "you want a spell that does this" checklist

Like how you want a reaction canceller

[light gyro]

wooden double so you dont get splattered by critical hits also. not directly a grapple escaper but extra useful against monsters with improved grab

[rustic cape]

The game does get more interesting when you realize how many inconveniences for the martials are ideally canceled out by the casters

[solar thorn]

My party just found an old crypt from the ancient evil empire, and within it a secret tunnel only operable with a blood sacrifice
And get this
They left lmao

Winners of the "i would survive a horror movie" award

[clever cobalt]

Shades of Blood?

[echo briar]

Do leap-days exist in Golarian?

I’m trying to figure out ||how many days off the party is at the end of Season of Ghosts||

[stuck bane]

It’s 1-1 with the standard calendar we use irl so it should

Yep, it does according to the pathfinder wiki page on the AR calendar

[craggy thunder]

Man I both find that cool and also

weird

[surreal basin]

Presumably it just coincidentally occupied literally the exact same orbit

As earth

[echo briar]

It could also be close, but not exactly right

Like, instead of a year being 365.24 days, it’s 365.26 days.

[steel blade]

its similar enough so nerds dont have to learn a whole new calendar

compare to, eg, Exalted, which does the whole new calendar thing and its also weird 5 seasons, 3 months each, each month is 28 days, and then there's an extra set of 5 days at the end of the year that are technically outside the year
seasons are named after the game's elements(fire/earth/wood/water/air), months are all ascending/resplendent/descending <season>(eg, resplendent air or, the one players always giggle at, ascending wood)
that 5 day period outside the calendar is called Calibration, and its when the gods take a break, ghosts and other beings from the underworld can freely enter Creation(the 'real' world), and there's a lot of magical shit that can only happen during Calibration(its also recommended to have any cosmology-altering events happen during Calibration, like the ascendance of a new major god or anything like that)

also, because of the calendar structure, years are 420 days but officially people still age at 1 physical year per calendar year
(and people dont really 'age' during Calibration--spells that have a duration measured in days or more dont count down during Calibration, etc. this was a whole thing in 2e because it gave us a lot of stuff that lasted 'a year and a day' so people had to ask 'does that mean 421 days, or 426?'; officially 421 days, but Calibration isn't counted as part of the duration so technically 426)

[echo briar]

There is also the question of ||if a 1 year timeloop would be a calendar year (365 days) or a solar year (365.24 days)||

[surreal basin]

I made a calendar that was essentially made to soothe my desire for regularity

5 months each season of 30 days each :3

[solar thorn]

No, homebrew.

[turbid dagger]

What ways are there to get a free hand grapple, or a one handed weapon that can grapple? So far I've got-
Scizore Of The Crab
Zhuazhi Bang
Gnoll's Crunch
Constricting Tail Graft
Mindsmith's custom weapon with the level 4 feat
And Kashrishi Fighting Horn
The wider context is that ahead of Battlecry I'm thinking of ways to get a weapon+shield Guardian grappling capability

[frank crystal]

A weird one is rideable animal companion who grapples for you

[surreal basin]

….. OH GRAPPLES FOR YOU

I was like

How the fuck does it grappling you help

[turbid dagger]

I'd go for the Zhuazhi Bang but
But

[light gyro]

idk if its viable to get 4th level spell slots on a guardian but there's the grasp of the deep spell
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1390

[frank crystal]

Lol

[surreal basin]

Also sidenote; making a new character that finally uses the custom mixed ancestry rules

Human/Strix

[frank crystal]

Gorilla animal companion who grapples you to drag you around

[turbid dagger]

I might read kholo more and contemplate that for guardian
But hmmmmmm
Furry....

[light gyro]

pathfinder is a furry game

[clever cobalt]

Kholo Represenation

still waiting for a Kholo iconic

[light gyro]

anchor root is an icon to me

[craggy thunder]

aren't there theoretically enough classes for all ancestries?

[light gyro]

25 classes to 52 ancestries currently on AoN

also imagine trying to convey what a specific class' deal was with a Conrasu, without the Conrasu-ness getting in the way

[craggy thunder]

Oh shit nevermind lmao

[solar storm]

Honestly 1:2 is a surprisingly close ratio

[light gyro]

"here's our barbarian: the SPHERE"

[surreal basin]

I’m playing a Bird in kingmaker

[craggy thunder]

Honestly I think this is down to the Conrasu ancestry art being just

fucking terrible, hot take

[surreal basin]

Not actually a bird
I’m playing a person turning INTO a bird

[craggy thunder]

It's art of a Conrasu as a creature, not an ancestry

[surreal basin]

Yeah it’s kinda inscrutable lmao

[craggy thunder]

It's good art to convey that conrasu are weird, mysterious beings with nonstandard bodyplans

[warped orbit]

I think we just need more Conrasu art

but I like them

[craggy thunder]

but neither has anything that makes them relatable or seemingly possible to play

[solar storm]

Yeah it’s often kind of hard to picture a Conrasu wear armor and covered in gear

[craggy thunder]

one of em is a bent pillar of wood with an orb stuck in it

wtf do they do like

for a 'living'

or hobby?

How is this a person?

Their representative art pieces make them seem fundamentally nonplayable because they're not relatable at all

[light gyro]

on the internet nobody knows youre a fucking tree thing

[craggy thunder]

In the sense you can't relate anything about you to them besides the idea that apparently this weird pillar is sapient

[clever cobalt]

I wonder if we'll ever get a Kholo iconic

[light gyro]

the necromancer and runesmith art we have atm - are they for sure the iconics?

[warped orbit]

no

[surreal basin]

They aren’t

It’s not even 2e art

[warped orbit]

none of the playtest classes have iconic art yet

[surreal basin]

It’s just placeholder art from 1e

[warped orbit]

it's just older art they use as placeholder

[light gyro]

kholo traditionally have necromancy, but not of the 'raise thralls' sort

[turbid dagger]

Well, we do know the battlecry iconics because the cover art has been shared

[frank crystal]

I didn’t even know how to envision them moving until I watched narrative declaration where one of their campaigns has a Conrasu with a much more normal humanoid body

And then realized they’re really just like, plant like magical constructs

[turbid dagger]

And the art shown for runesmith and necro does seem bespoke made for them unless I'm crazy
I suspect they're the 'build art' rather than the iconics
Like the minotaur Exemplar with two big gauntlets

[surreal basin]

I’m pretty confident I’ve at least heard multiple times it’s from 1e

[turbid dagger]

Hmmmm
Iunno!

You might be thinking of battlecry play test
Where 1e art of WOTRs Irabeth Tirabade is used for guardian

[surreal basin]

Possibly Yeag

[frank crystal]

Like this feels much more like a art of a playable creature then the normal Conrasu art

[limber comet]

Nah, the necromancer art isn't bespoke

The mirror holding halfling is from book of the dead, and the urgathoan scythe person is from npc core

[turbid dagger]

Huh! Neat

[turbid dagger]

In my head the original conrasu art just slithers along the ground

[limber comet]

I don't know the dwarf but the second one is archetype art for Soulforger

[surreal basin]

Damn that was the one I wasn’t sure about lol

Dwarf with runes is generic enough that I was like

Eh

[frank crystal]

Honestly I can’t imagine them moving at all lol

They really look like stationary objects

Like maybe they wiggle

[craggy thunder]

They look like the fuckin orb worms in Elden Ring

[frank crystal]

Yah

Semi stone/wood/cosmic worms

However, not things that function within the rules of the game

That kinda assume a humanoid or at least partial humanoid body plan

[craggy thunder]

eh, anadi become spiders

[frank crystal]

With the 2 arms and all the worn magic items

[vocal ember]

I have no problems with the art personally, fantasy should be weird imo

[craggy thunder]

so really any sort of semi-animal body plan

I mean the art is cool, our point is it's bad at conveying something playable

[frank crystal]

Eh, shape changers are different imo

[craggy thunder]

It's so weird as to be fully alien

[frank crystal]

Especially since you change your stats accordingly

[craggy thunder]

is the point

[frank crystal]

Oh yah the art is cool, it’s just art that does not convey conrasu’s well as like, playable

[craggy thunder]

ye

[frank crystal]

It’d be great creature art for a statblock

Which I think is actually?

Do conrasus have a NPC statblock?

[vocal ember]

I suppose the art isn't great for PCs tho yeah

[warped orbit]

just slithers around on the roots

[craggy thunder]

Oh I hate that this made me think of this

what if they do it like a weird plant millipede

[vocal ember]

Once of the art pieces in the book does show one walking presumably (it's also the only one not on AoN)

[turbid dagger]

I see what you're saying
I suppose I'm just fine with a deeply weird ancestry that has to do stuff in an unusual way in-fiction
Starfinder does far worse 😔

[warped orbit]

I find Conrasu being weird wood mechs the interesting part about them

[frank crystal]

I am still very excited for SF2E but ngl, I am not super excited with how much preview stuff feels very… idk what the term is but I guess… dnd tumblr post about a wacky character they played once core

If that’s a vibe anyone else understands

[craggy thunder]

I honestly understand the vibe

[frank crystal]

Ok I’m glad I’m not crazy then

[craggy thunder]

idk why in particular but the main way I get this vibe is the repeated diagetic acknowledgment video games exist in-setting?

It feels like the writer is winking and nodding fiction-in-fiction style

Cuz like

of course video games exist

But attention being drawn to it the way it is feels odd

[frank crystal]

Yah

The one thing that really kinda set it in for me was that one spell that I don’t remember the name of but was based around basically space social media

I wish I could remember the specifics but like, it was something about that

[turbid dagger]

It def feels a little more jokey
I think that's been SF in general
It has the feel of a Wacky Sci Fi Spinoff, like how 40k started out

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s it

It’s less of a sci-fi version of Golarion

And more of a sci-fi parody version of Golarion

Or at least it feels that way

[turbid dagger]

I def think there's space for more serious stories, and they're moving that way in the narrative I think
But yes yes 360 no scope and such

[frank crystal]

RIGHT

It was 360 no scope that gave me that original vibe

I don’t know what I was talking about with that social media spell I’m not even sure that exists

But a feat to mechanize 360 no scope felt very, less because that’s an actual fantasy of the class in question and more because it’d be funny

[vocal ember]

Doomscroll?

[frank crystal]

Oh yah that too

So there was one

I just forgot it

Yah those just feel, very like, “my character in my dnd campaign…” post core

[vocal ember]

I do have a vague suspicion that they are doing memey stuff for like free publicity. Though I suppose that's not particularly unusual in marketing these days.

[surreal basin]

I mean

I don’t think that tracks

[vocal ember]

Like in the sense of people sharing something on social media because it's funny it's in the game

[frank crystal]

I mean, ngl I was partially thinking that too lol

Like I don’t think it’s their main reason

But I definitely think in the back of their head they knew it would be screenshotted and shared

Because like, it was

Repeatedly

[vocal ember]

Yeah

[turbid dagger]

To be fair
The actual effect of 360 no scope is perfectly fitting the tone of operator and not silly at all

You do a bit of free running across difficult terrain or vertical surfaces and can make one Strike during that

It's like
Mirrors Edge whenever you've got a gun

[desert vale]

My explanation of Aroden's death is sort of boring. He was going for a "reborn as mortal not super obvious at first incarnation" and so he had to be physically reborn first.

His mother to be died before he was born into the world giving rise to a new Asuran Rana very closely tied to Golarion.

Also the Guru of Butchers, another Asura Rana, is tied to the imprisonment of Rovagug

[clever cobalt]

I like to think Aroden got ganked because he massively overestimated his own importance and power

to who though, IDK

[frank crystal]

Yah the feat itself is fine but like, the name really does a lot of framing

Turning it from parkour with a gun, which fits rather well with operator

To

EPIC LEET MOM GET THE CAMERA MONTAGE (ironic of course)

[clever cobalt]

While it does kinda put me out of it as well, Starfinder 1e is also similarily tongue in cheek sometimes

at least iirc

[frank crystal]

Yah I’m not super similar with 1e

My excitement came from being a fan of PF

[clever cobalt]

same

[limber comet]

Sf1e is rather tongue in cheek yeah

It is also very heavy on references

2e is heavier but it's more of the same

[novel merlin]

Starfinder is definitely a high whimsy setting

[turbid dagger]

So war the adventures being released gives me hope
Cosmic Birthday and the Vesk/Azlanti war one seem like lovely science fantasy fare

[rustic cape]

Yeah, I think Starfinder is aware that its whole premise is kinda silly and gonzo and is happy to do stuff to suit

[surreal basin]

Yeah they also seem leaning away from the meme stuff in the recent playtest so

I’m happy w that

[rustic cape]

"The ancestry which is just Stitch" is great

[limber comet]

Really hoping Biohacker makes a return

...and Evolutionist

[clever cobalt]

God i want Evolutionist for 2e so bad

[limber comet]

Let me rephrase; a speedy return

[frank crystal]

What’s evolutionist?

[clever cobalt]

Modifying your own body, bascially

it was a class in 1e

https://www.aonsrd.com/Classes.aspx?ItemName=Evolutionist

Sadly it wasn't very good

or so I've heard at least

[frank crystal]

Oh that would be cool to see though

[clever cobalt]

Still, its a very strong concept for a class imo

[frank crystal]

Yah

[clever cobalt]

And probably too expansive for a single archetype

[frank crystal]

I love weird body characters

[clever cobalt]

Ye

[frank crystal]

Or like, characters who weaponize their strange body

[clever cobalt]

I always love a character who starts human but becomes something more over time

Im currently playing a Fleshwarp Thaumaturge in a mythic game with that very concept

[frank crystal]

Ooo

How are they changing?

[clever cobalt]

Godling Mythic Path, if it matters

[frank crystal]

Oh cool

[clever cobalt]

The idea was that they started mostly human but warp and grow more eldritch over time

Until eventually becoming a nascent Outer God/Great Old One

Current we're at level 7

[frank crystal]

So they’re not near outer god yet

[clever cobalt]

They wear a mask and heavy robes to conceal the mutations

Yeah

[surreal basin]

Uhhhh

[clever cobalt]

?

[surreal basin]

That happened to my witch in Ruby Phoenix

[clever cobalt]

Neat

[surreal basin]

She became an eldritch demigod

In our version of golarion

[clever cobalt]

Nice

Eldritch Demigods are always fun :v

[surreal basin]

She was a mildly insane eldritch scientist

Who spent a lot of that campaign dissecting the monsters we killed

[frank crystal]

Did she sign up for the Ruby pheonix just to get stuff to dissect?

[surreal basin]

And also doing really concerning shit as her body disintegrated like a caterpillar

[surreal basin]

No, the impetus of her transformation was damaged and she was dying instead of ascending, so she asked the Ruby Phoenix to lend her a small amount of mythic power to fix her thing

As her reward

[frank crystal]

Oh cool

[surreal basin]

The dissecting was purely for the love of the game

:p

[clever cobalt]

Looks like people are starting to get LO: SHining Kingdoms 👀

[frank crystal]

What’s that book?

[echo briar]

Need help balancing an item. Spoilers for Season of ghosts
||```Hongrui’s Gratitude
level 3, invested, magical, 60 gp
activation, 1 action. duration, As Mutagen
Effect
With a wave of the cloak to the left, you cause the image of the tome companion on the cloak to vanish. You gain the cleverness of Fan Hongrui, granting you the effects of the Cognitive mutagen (lesser)

activation, 1 action. Duration, as mutagen
With a wave of the cloak to the right, you cause the image of the sword holding companion on the cloak to vanish. You gain the fury of Fan Hongrui, granting the effects of the Drakeheart Mutagen (lesser).```||

[surreal basin]

Tbh I just grabbed the original item and gave it unholy resist 5

[eager mountain]

https://bsky.app/profile/starfinderfacts2e.bsky.social/post/3lplxiacpns2b

Starfinder Facts, 2nd Edition (@starfinderfacts2e.bsky.social)

Gnomes popularly claim to be the inventors of the first mech but get really fucking pissed if you point out that the original inventor was just making his medium-sized "mechuman suit" in order to reach high shelves

AlaiziaTheGnome🔞🏳️‍⚧️ (@alaiziathegnome.bsky.social)
@starfinderfacts2e.bsky.social got any starfinder facts about gnomes?

Bluesky · May 20, 2025, 11:15 AM

[keen raptor]

I think that still counts as a 1/2 sized mech in Lancer.

[desert vale]

Funniest casting for god.
Neil deGrasse Tyson as Groetus

[tight flare]

I'm back with my build woes!
I was planning to drop the flight ancestry feat for my automaton magus and pick enlarged chassis instead
But it turns out the latter was a level 13 feat so I can't swap it.
I already have the blink feat at that level.
Not sure if I want to sacrifice my daily use of dimension door (tm) for the the bonuses from being large (and without clumsy, because of augmentation)

[vocal ember]

hmm... Astral Blink is hourly but since you're a magus you can sorta replace it with some wands (though that would take extra actions to draw and put away since I think you're doing two-handed?).

[tight flare]

Yeah halberd

Forgot the name of the specialisation, but it's the strength based build

Iron-something

[vocal ember]

I think in terms optimization, assuming narrow rooms/corridors aren't common, Enlarged Chassis + Greater Augmentation would be the "correct" answer, but it's cooler to teleport behind someone.

But either of those options depend on your circumstances tho

And I feel like part of the benefit of Pathfinder 2e is that, you kinda don't have to care and you can just pick whatever's more interesting to you.

[desert vale]

Thinking a little about starfinder.

And just. World building implications

Or something.

Just what sorts of things would be unique to Golarion vs common to many worlds?

And. Stuff like that

Dont have enough knowledge though to say anything interesting

Got 4 random Starfinder 1e rulebooks for about $50.

And also. Extraplanar junk has an additional layer pf stuff to think about. In theory

[echo briar]

Milk should be extremely alien to every other system.

Not just cows milk, but the concept of mammals

Skittermanders should get offended when you call them a mammal, as they don’t want to get lumped in with those weirdos

[eager mountain]

mostly pathfinder setting specific stuff.

uhhhhh , any of the region specific stuff.

uhhhh theres probably nto a bristle boar on other planets

lol

appearently dinosaurs exist else where tho

since they also existed on earth

and some how Zo! got ahold of a tricerotops and branded it the Zo!ceretops

[vocal ember]

I think there are some places in the Outer Planes with dinosaurs? Like Zevgavizeb's domain I think.

[astral prawn]

Friendly reminder that Atropos has the worst job of any Usher and she has peers who judge the Redeemed, Deities and victims of mass natural disasters

[wary yoke]

What's her job?

[desert vale]

Judging children

[astral prawn]

She's the Usher who has to condemn children to Hell if that's what necessary

[wary yoke]

I feel like that would be pretty rare.

[craggy thunder]

Almost assuredly but I would wager it sucks enough that I'd rather be the usher for victims of natural disasters

[echo briar]

Why does that even need a unique usher anyways?

Is there one for every traumatic cause of death, or do natural disasters change how a soul is judged?

[wary yoke]

I know there are specific gods involved, so that may be part of it

[astral prawn]

Beuracracy I imagine

The Boneyard handles all the death in the Universe, having more specific gods to split up the workload is probably better for the flow of judgements

[surreal basin]

Yeah there’s a lot of judges

Through incidental lore we’ve kinda gathered that the planes are just wildly complicated

Also

I’m thinking about adapting 4e monsters in PF2e

This is sparked by me looking at the Atropal and going “fuck yeah brother”

[solar storm]

The 4e Atropal was dope

[desert vale]

I think i dont necessarily like pharasma/a unified afterlife system

Especially settings like d&d or pathfinder who plunk things into a universe

[surreal basin]

How do you mean

[light gyro]

We know blow by blow what happens to the souls of the dead in the pf setting. You can go take a look in person if you're determined enough

[wary yoke]

https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com/m/product/430563

Barbarians+ has been remastered

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah I guess they’d have to remaster their stuff

Tran Gender

[clever cobalt]

[wary yoke]

I'll never see Magus+ remastered...

[light gyro]

(because the magus is a perfect class, of course :^) )

[desert vale]

Pretty much that is what annoys me. Just, I have never particularily cared for the idea of "heaven" and "hell". And I kind of dislike the idea that it is all clear and straightforward

That the messy variety of human beliefs is just fundamentally wrong

[surreal basin]

I mean I wouldn’t say as much as that but doing real religious worldbuilding can’t work in a world with like

Real gods

Insofar as a god you can talk to

[echo briar]

The thing is, those beliefs are explicitly not wrong

[surreal basin]

This is more a general fantasy/elfgame problem

[echo briar]

Cultures that believe in reincarnation reincarnate. Cultures that believe that the souls of the dead linger have their souls linger

[desert vale]

Fair.

[light gyro]

if you really want you can throw yourself into Mega Hell. they even have a guy from Regular Hell at the gate trying to convince you not to do it

[surreal basin]

Buh?

[light gyro]

allegedly, there's a bunch of courts in pharasma's realm that lead to the major after-lifes, for each panel of the alignment chart but neutral. Neutral Evil Hell sucks so bad that demons and devils send a guy each to talk you out of going to it

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Eight_Courts

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah! To stop people becoming daemons

Because they’re omnicidal maniacs

[light gyro]

(they dont even have dental, man)>

[craggy thunder]

man

brimoraks are so cool

the classic 'goat-headed demon with a fiery sword'

[desert vale]

Ooh

[craggy thunder]

plot twist: they're like 4 feet tall

ooooooooooooooooooooo

new character idea

pitborn minotaur hellknight hopeful, dismissively called 'Brimorak' by their more racist peers

since brimoraks are demons and thus chaotic

[frank crystal]

Oddly enough I think that was retconned away

They’re medium creatures now

[craggy thunder]

NOOOOO IT WAS SO FUNNY

[frank crystal]

And their new description doesn’t mention anything about them being small anymore

[light gyro]

They hate to see a short king winning

[frank crystal]

They do

[keen raptor]

I remember the first one you fight in Wrath of The Righteous taking me by surprise. "This thing is tiny, probably just another basic enem- Level 2 party gets fireballed"

[desert vale]

Tiny sized spawn of rovagug.

[craggy thunder]

I'm sad cuz now I wanna play one

but like

that is not how the game works lmao

[light gyro]

Can you not get there with minotaur and a versatile heritage?

[turbid dagger]

Brimoraks are fun
I recently Acid Gripped one into a canal
Which,
Extinguishing Aversion Dousing a brimorak with water, either ordinary water or from a water effect, causes no physical harm to the fiend but deals 3d6 mental damage. Fully immersing the brimorak in water deals 5d6 mental damage per round.

[craggy thunder]

you kiiiiind of can?

I also would ideally like to play the brimorak being on the small side of medium

while with a versatile heritage a minotaur would always be large

[frank crystal]

It’d be better with like, a satyr ancestry probably

[craggy thunder]

perhaps

[eager mountain]

ya know , something I wasnt expecting

turns out Camilia Drannoch is undead

The current revolutionary leader of Galt.

She was actualy killed by a final blade, but due to hag sorcerery, her soul was freed and she sewed her own head back onto her body.

then went on to lead the revolution

no one knows shes undead.

[eager mountain]

What happens when your too greedy to die

[rustic cape]

Playing in a level 15 game with no leveling gotta figure out something fun

One level too low to try to do some deeply silly Twin Stance monk shit

[tight flare]

How terrible would it be to be permanently enlarged?
Assuming I don't take the feat to avoid the clumsy penalty, I'll be clumsy all the time

The extra damage and reach is nice

[warped orbit]

well it's -1 AC and Ref save

which isn't great, but is IMO generally worth for the benefits of Enlarge

the reach especially is pretty great

[rustic cape]

Big status bonus to damage and reach are both nice

[warped orbit]

generally finding a way to Enlarge yourself is almost always really good as a martial

so not needing to get a wand for it is nice

[rustic cape]

I could just do imaginary weapon magus >_>

[warped orbit]

it's pretty good

[rustic cape]

dat amp scaling

[tight flare]

It's difficult to decide class build stuff lol
Still undecided, but I've got until tuesday to decide so I'm sure I'll reach some conclusion

Yeah I'm grabbing enlarge and then I'll get augmentation on the blink feat on level 20 I guess

Am currently level 17

[rustic cape]

I feel like I should pick a class that gets something really nice between 13 and 15

Alternately, I could play a higher-level version of my Frozen Flame character

...

Wait

[tight flare]

Are you playing an AP?

[rustic cape]

A Paizo one-shot

The name escapes me

[desert vale]

Bought 2e bestiary 2 and Bestiary 3. And the remaster GM core

Should perhaps have tried to talk my way into getting a discount.

[echo briar]

does Nocticula not care about lust and sex at all like her write up on AoN implies? I would assume as the former demon lord of succubi, she would either care about that stuff in a less evil way, or she would try and rally against the less savory aspects. I was not expecting it to not be brought up at all

[warped orbit]

she's just neutral on it now I think

[rustic cape]

She wasn't even ever just about being The Sex Demon Lord

Her reputation was more for assassinating a whole bunch of other demon lords

And now she's doing her own thing

[rustic cape]

Equipment for a 15th-level bombbarian, am I missing anything obvious?

• Major Alchemist's Fire
• 6xBackfire Mantles (for self and the party)
• Greater Resilient Armor
• Boots of Bounding
• Greater Alchemist Goggles
• Greater Shadow Rune
• Greater Healer's Gloves
• Thunderblast Slippers
• 180 gold left over

[light gyro]

Any other bombs in case you're fighting fire resistant things?

[rustic cape]

I have Advanced Alchemy for that

Since this is a boss rush of sorts, hopefully I have time to switch them

If not, I do have versatile vials, although they're less ideal

[echo briar]

Next AP will include a potential TPE (total party explosion)

[astral prawn]

The Revenge of the Runelords will flat out end the world if you fail apparently wth

[light gyro]

John Paizo will come to your house and shred your books if you wipe

[echo briar]

Havoc dragons are coming back as delight dragons

Also, new barrage dragon that had built in cannons

Also official lancer mention in the Paizo stream

[light gyro]

Bahamut finalfantasy babey!!!!!!!!!

[clever cobalt]

wwhich AP?

Did new info on Revenge of the Runelords come out recently

[echo briar]

The low level mythic one

[clever cobalt]

ah

Is the PG for that out yet?

[echo briar]

No

[clever cobalt]

ah

fair

[wary yoke]

In what context?

[echo briar]

Go play lancer

But we have a cannon dragon if you can’t

[clever cobalt]

I just hope Kholo are a recommended ancestry in the Mythic AP >_>

no bias here

[desert vale]

How easy would it be as a first time gm and pathfinder 2e player to run the extinction curse?

[turbid dagger]

It would be a sudden plunge for certain
I would rec a oneshot of some sort first just to see how you vibe with the role before commitin yourself to a year+ project like a 1-20

[light gyro]

Being at the tail end of a 1-20 which was my first time playing pf2e I can agree. Hell do a 1-10 if you really want to

[clever cobalt]

https://paizo.com/pathfinder/hellfirecrisis

[desert vale]

I probably will never do it anyway

[warped orbit]

huh

a 1-10 Mythic AP seems weird

since you don't get your actual Mythic Destiny until 12

[frank crystal]

Yah huh

Do they maybe have a second AP planned for 11-20 maybe?

[echo briar]

Yes

[echo briar]

Also, I would not suggest extinction curse in particular

It is the second one ever made for 2e, and it’s very rough

It is infamous for abandoning the circus entirely halfway through never to pick it up again

[desert vale]

Huh

[echo briar]

Yea. From what I’ve heard it’s not a terrible AP, but that compleat change in expectations kills it for a lot of groups.

At minimum I would communicate that with the party during character creation

[desert vale]

nodnod not certain why it stood out to me.

[solar storm]

APs in general are easy to run but I would recommend a 3 parter for a new group not a 6 parter

[turbid dagger]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/144EwSN_VKC-PQrk-2LPjZKPze-CxXec89H9R6qbZY60/edit?tab=t.0

👀

LOTS of EXTREMELY excitin stuff here

Guardian is getting mobility on its reaction and is now officially a 12 HP per level class
Aldori Duelist is getting expanded
New Sorceror bloodline and Thaumaturge implement
Drow Shootist is back as Crossbow Infiltrator

God those two changes for Guardian have me so hype
I expect and hope for more but that's REALLY good

[clever cobalt]

Whats the new Thaum implement?

[turbid dagger]

We don't know, just that it's Coming

[limber comet]

THAUM IMPLEMENT

LFG

[turbid dagger]

Yesssss
Super exciteddddd
This was a banger of a stream
I was already doing backflips for battlecry but good lord

[wooden orbit]

HELL YEAH! I MEAN RAISE THE ANDORAN FLAG!

Time for me to make a Hellknight fighting against Cheliax

[limber comet]

I hope the Hellfire Crisis is more directly involved than the Godsrain

Anyways

Barrage dragon

It's just straight up a magic missile dragon

[wooden orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/harrison-ford-star-wars-baby-boy-cute-adorable-gif-9232002

[limber comet]

We are eating so good

Xulgath are getting a dinosaur cavalry troop

[wooden orbit]

Playing a Witchwarper in this crisis to really confuse the hell out of Cheliax soldiers.

[limber comet]

I mean there's so SO many ways you can spin witchwarper

Anomaly has a lot of Dark Tapestry themes so... :3

Confusing but not in the same way

[limber comet]

Fortune Archdragon from the keynote

Omen

Sorry I was thinking "fortune" as in fortune-telling

My bad

Delight Dragon (Havoc Dragons from 1e)

Remastered Magma Dragon

And that's my image dump from the dragons segment of the keynote

[eager mountain]

IT KEEPS HAPPENING

[eager mountain]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1196039811291693126/1375824891512885288/Lost_Omens_Character_Guide_-_pg_65_-_img_2.webp?ex=68331847&is=6831c6c7&hm=ff09421cd5513d1120879caacbae000cb97d7a5432b0ff2c7960343a0edc6e50&

[silver geyser]

Ah, the appearance of the fabled Linnorm-Kidnapping Princess. 😛

[eager mountain]

huh!?

[silver geyser]

Old minor forum joke. Someone once flubbed talking about a "princess-kidnapping linnorm"

And so people got attached to the idea of the Linnorm-Kidnapping Princess

[keen raptor]

Princess with a secret dungeon full of Linnorms

[trail nova]

Do they count if they’re illusionary training devices?

[keen raptor]

Can't kidnap a training dummy

[clever cobalt]

God I want the Shining Kingdoms LO book so bad

I love the Shining Kingdoms personally >_>

[trail nova]

You know the princess I’m referencing, I’m sure. And also yeah, I need shining kingdoms desperately.

I’m pretty sure that if Pazio decided to publish an entire book on Taldor-Kelesh international relations, I would make it my single PF2e purchase.

[fast hill]

kingmaker 2e has hit me with the feeling like I was promised feudalism larp and I will not get it

unfortunately your government choices aren't relevant because narratively ur just an oligarchy

[wooden orbit]

SHOW ME THE DIABOLIC ARCHDRAGON

[desert vale]

The third party adventure path Way of the Wicked for Pathfinder 1e.

I figured out what I would play.

Human Vivisectionist(?) Alchemist. Needed anatomical subjects for study (dead ones) and she denies knowing where the bodies were coming from (she did know)

[limber comet]

That's all there was!!!

There's a Lost Omens segment on twitch today but I'm at work

[wooden orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/forrest-gump-running-me-when-im-late-tom-hanks-gif-5144739

GOTTA SEE THAT

[surreal basin]

Hair trigger for operative is now a 6th level feat and only applies to the last guy you aimed at

Solarion Arrangements have seemingly been fully axed

[clever cobalt]

I hope we get Lost Omens: Casmaron announced

[clever cobalt]

LO Panel is an hour

if that matters

[astral prawn]

Probably just gonna have more spoilers about the announced books, like Draconic Codex

[astral prawn]

Draconic Codex spoilers ooo

JJ cut Wyvarans confirmed

Barrage Dragons legit just shoot out unending force missiles, in cones, in their aura, as regular actions, it's a Touhou Dragon that may not even be natural?

They have ball bearing-like things in their veins wtf, eat a ton of iron too

[rapid wagon]

discovered the cultivator archetype

[rapid wagon]

feels like itd be really cool for a ki monk

[astral prawn]

Conspirator Arch Dragon

Apparently can just make you forget about it when you see it

[wooden orbit]

They tease....THEY TEASED

[astral prawn]

Sharshalatu!

[wooden orbit]

That wasn't a Diabolic Archdragon

o.o

[astral prawn]

It's Dahak's mama

[wooden orbit]

Sharshalatu is lovely

[astral prawn]

Sarshallatu

Mocking Dragon, they're like draconic Phantom Thieves

They're good guys fr

Formerly the Copper Dragon

[desert vale]

Hmmm... I am too accustomed to the classic dragons methinks.

But also. Good

[astral prawn]

The Metallics are apparently leaning more into personalities

[wooden orbit]

I really kinda dig this approach

[astral prawn]

Looks like an Occult one to me

[frank crystal]

Any cool orb magic items?

[astral prawn]

Idk this stuff is mostly just about Dragons (<3)

[frank crystal]

oh I meant in general

a map Im using has an orb on it

and I wanna put an orb there

[wooden orbit]

We're apparently getting some goodies for Dragonblooded, and kobolds in this book too

[astral prawn]

They're bringing back that dragon archetype too

[frank crystal]

Which one?

[clever cobalt]

Dragon Acolyte iirc

[frank crystal]

Cool

Also, what’s a good name for a divine dragon?

Ideally one related to Norse myth

[astral prawn]

Jormugandr

Nidhogg

[desert vale]

Good or bad dragon

[frank crystal]

Good

[desert vale]

And. Is there an adventure path in andor?

[rustic cape]

So right at the end of Frozen Flame, fighting the paladin miniboss prior to Evarsa

My thief rogue just one-turned him down from full

Doing 210 damage

[dapper tusk]

does this seem reasonably balanced? as in, pretty nice but not game-breaking

[clever cobalt]

Seems fine, though it should probably note the action has the manipulate trait or something

[desert vale]

So. Just curious. Has their been an adventure path centered on Andoran

[worthy stump]

i don't think there has been. there's been lots of PFS scenarios and smaller adventures, i believe, but never a proper AP

[desert vale]

nodnod

[worthy stump]

the upcoming Cheliax vs. Andoran war APs might have some time in there, but it looks like the first one is mostly in Isger

[desert vale]

Interesting. Andor would probably be place for my campaign ideas

Andoran. Dangnabbit

[eager mountain]

THE FUCKING SWOLTRID IS CANNON

[turbid dagger]

Crown of the kobold king is set in a BACK backwater area of Andoran

[eager mountain]

huh

that doesnt seem right

[turbid dagger]

What is this art from

[limber comet]

Probably the roadmap stream today

[limber comet]

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-who-thirteenth-doctor-silence-revolution-revolution-of-the-daleks-gif-20057928

[echo briar]

Has Paizo made any announcements about how tariffs are going to effect US prices?

Because I would assume most of what’s being sold has been in a US warehouse sense tariffs came into effect, but battle cry is almost definitely being shipped from outside the US right now

[solar storm]

IIRC Paizo actually prints stateside so they’re comparatively shielded

It’s mostly like volatility in wood pulp pricing or something?

This may have been someone being wrong on Twitter though

[echo briar]

Huh, that is interesting

[upbeat ridge]

Wishing Meld into eidolon didn’t suck

I hope they eventually make a synthesist class archetype

Like

Loose act together/being two seperate entities but you can swap between your eidolon and your summoner as a free action at the beginning of your turn

I guess the focus spells you get would have to be different but yeah

[keen raptor]

I'm out of my house for the weekend so I can't confirm for sure but I'm pretty sure at least one of my newer physical books has "printed in China" somewhere on it.

Maybe they do both?

[heavy fulcrum]

yeah im pretty sure at least the hardcovers are printed in China

[keen raptor]

That would explain it since that's what I've got.

[limber comet]

This is in Summoners+ I think

[limber comet]

Oh I just read the Lost Omens panel write up

Time dragons are apparently confirmed to be returning

They will still be ourple...

[rustic cape]

New deep lore unlocked in my Kingmaker came: the fairy-frog rivalry in the stolen lands

[desert vale]

This but. Protean.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BLzxuIfD9rU

[upbeat ridge]

Ough.

Need to look into that then

[frank crystal]

Does this game have any like, sieging rules?

Like large armies clashing in a specific area

If not, y’all know any good homebrew stuff for that?

[upbeat ridge]

Battlecry might have some of that

[frank crystal]

Hmm, that’ll probably come out by the time I need it

[craggy thunder]

never underestimate the power of two violence lesbians united in purpose

(violence)

[light gyro]

Is Rouge's Eldritch Trickster racket worth pestering my GM about given it's legacy

[craggy thunder]

No, it's pretty bad imo

[warped orbit]

It doesn't give you much you wouldn't get from just getting a casting dedication

[surreal basin]

If ur playing free archetype - yeah

[warped orbit]

Also changing your KAS to a mental stat is bad usually

For Rogue

[light gyro]

oh right I forgot it changes your key stat

[warped orbit]

Well it's not mandatory

It just gives you the option

But you should stick with Dex

[trim bluff]

i love how this 1e campaign im doing is very clearly supposed to be high powered, high base stat spread and a mythic level despite the fact we're only level 3, meanwhile our party is
-ranged dps (kineticist, the only normal guy)
-melee dps (fighter, who runs in in front of the tank and goes down constantly)
-tank (paladin, who got his expensive armor ruined by a rust monster like second session)
-godlike out of combat utility (oracle, who crumples like paper whenever anything that so much as smells like combat happens)

[craggy thunder]

Unless you know what ur doing (says the person playing a mastermind with Int key stat)

[echo briar]

What nation do you think has the highest rate of bleaching amongst gnomes?

I’m thinking Cheliax.

[craggy thunder]

Probs

[wooden orbit]

Cheliax, and/or Geb

[limber comet]

We're getting a peek at Monster Core 2 today

There's a panel around 3 pst called Creature Feature

I wonder if it features the creature

[rustic cape]

It fuckin' sucks

[limber comet]

Also

Rouge

All the world's gems belong to me

[echo briar]

I think in Geb they would just kill them when they start showing signs

I think they would much prefer an undead gnome than a half living gnome.

They seem like the kind of people to really care about the distinction

[astral prawn]

It'll at least feature the Despair Dragon, designed to be more disgusting and gross than the Conspirator

Which would be an achievement if they pulled it off

[astral prawn]

If you really want to go for it, just take a multiclass into a caster archetype, especially if you're playing FA

[light gyro]

i'm thinking i'll keep my magic stuff to trick magic item and that two-cantrip feat - then for combat i'll go unarmed and play with all the bebuff-inflicting toys (head stomp, dirty trick, etc)

[astral prawn]

That works too

Honestly Eldritch Trickster would be a lot better if the casting scaled automatically (giving you the spellcasting archetype benefits as you level up)

Might be a little busted even

Could do a bloodrager thing and add extra stuff on top of the spellcasting benefit feats

[wooden orbit]

Loving what I've heard so far about the Mythspeaker AP, and the Revenge of the Runelords ap.

[turbid dagger]

The APs I'm most jazzed for are triumph of the tusk and hellbreakers

[wooden orbit]

I’ve yet to play triumph of the tusk and this makes a Spoon very sad

[scenic patio]

This looks like fun what is this from something Upcoming?

[frozen hatch]

What could I do story-wise and as a bbeg boss fight for a villain who initially portrayed themselves as a simple storyteller but in reality has ambitions and plans to eventually try and become the new God of fate and providence that views the party's existence as incompatible with how they plan to reshape the world upon Ascension?

[frank crystal]

I’d imagine some kinda high level bard

Occult caster, give them some like, strange divine summons

Like malformed angels singing in his choir

[rustic cape]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/VU00mao1ei I'm sorry what

(The mod's WIP but appears to have a wild amount done so far)

[frank crystal]

Jesus Christ

[eager mountain]

Nah just book art

[clever cobalt]

Nice

[desert vale]

Sweet

[scenic patio]

Nice

[upbeat ridge]

Ok, I do like synthesist from summoners+, but I wish that there was a version that’s flipped on its head where your default state in combat was as your summoner instead of your eidolon

I guess that would be more shifter really

Curious if they’re gonna do that if they ever do a druids+

[echo briar]

If most of the time you are the summoner, wouldn’t that just be a wild shape Druid?

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah that’s why I mentioned shifter

[echo briar]

But even a shifter is going to be shifted most of the time

[upbeat ridge]

That’s fair

[echo briar]

That just seems like a regular caster with a backup melee form

Which I think every caster can do with polymorph spells

[upbeat ridge]

I’m kinda trying to do Terra from ff6

Which could be done with oscillating wave psychic tbh

[astral prawn]

Paizocon starting the creature stream

[limber comet]

Thank you Paizo twitch chat

If there's any despair dragon stuff take a screen

Can't watch fully

At work

[astral prawn]

Will do

[limber comet]

Or rlly any Monster core 2 art/images that aren't the cover

[astral prawn]

Cannon Archon on the left, the literal gun of the gods

[clever cobalt]

Nice

[astral prawn]

The other is a living dimensional rift

Can pop up when witchwarpery happens, and it does Witchwarper stuff

NPCs too, like the Sihedron Guard, who serves the Chancellor of the Azlanti Empire

The Head is a Corpse Fleet Recruiter

On the left, a Tax-collecting Robot that can repossess stuff, on the right, a new fey (Ovrinchi? Auvrinchi?) that fill a psychopomp role, but they take fey souls for the First World

On the left is a totally normal bed ;p (Actually Mimics are back!) They're no longer sticky and can swallow whole and do things based on their disguise? On the right is a Golem. Like, an actual Golem!

On the left, a trickster fey who loves having a good time (couldn't grab the name) and on the right, a Deep One, they're coming back for Monster Core 2!

On the left, a new Alghollthu type that serves as a chronicler, holding a crystal that serves as a databank, and they can steal your memories and pass them on to the rest of their kind, legends says one carries the secret behind Aroden's death

[craggy thunder]

I

hm

idk how they're gonna pull off an accurate Jewish legend type golem without

having Judaism

XD

As a religion

though I suppose angels are a thing

and no one is Christian

[astral prawn]

On the right, a Swarm Strider, think Worm that Walks but Remastered, they're not spellcaster exclusive, they can be for anyone, be made up of any swarm too!

[limber comet]

DEEP ONES ARE BACK

LET'S FUCKING GO

[astral prawn]

On the right is the Rune Dragon, each scale is a runestone it can gift to people, and it can invoke different runes and shift them about, it's breath weapon is it breathes exploding runes. Also jesus fuckin christ there's the Despair Dragon what the fuck.

[limber comet]

ACCURATE GOLEMS TOO

[astral prawn]

They did it

[limber comet]

Oh.

My god

Well that's certainly what I'd expect for an occult dragon at least

[astral prawn]

Despair Dragons want to scare people, it's their compulsion, they must

Their tongue ends in a humanoid-looking bladder, it can inflate it to resemble a person or animal JESUS CHRIST

Can extend it 20 feet to act as a lure

They did it, they made a worse one

Oh

On the right is a Gobmob

[clever cobalt]

Rovugug related?

[astral prawn]

Gobmobs (Gob Mobs) constantly bicker amongst themselves, they brought back Goblin Snake and apparently just made this thing up

[limber comet]

What's on the left

[astral prawn]

On the left is a Soul Rider, it's a parasite that travels through the river of souls and latches onto souls

On the other side after judgement it gains the properties of the plane the soul went to

So they're level 1 and can be Holy lol

I love em

[limber comet]

Oooh

Cool

[astral prawn]

Friend of mine is like "Despair doesn't even look like a Dragon"

[limber comet]

Me when the occult dragon is occult

[astral prawn]

They are fucked up and weird (affectionate)

[craggy thunder]

I mean they're not wrong

I struggle to place an influence from any sort of mythologically draconic creature

they look like fuckin khezu from monster hunter

[limber comet]

It's a dragon!

And khezu is a wyvern despite being a gross worm

[craggy thunder]

give me a nonmorphological argument it's a dragon

[astral prawn]

What defines a dragon nonmorphologically?

Got em

[limber comet]

The dragon gods say so

"Yeah sorry that thing's my offspring"

[craggy thunder]

The dragon gods can FU-

That's an ugly ass baby then

[astral prawn]

Yeah, said baby also has a compulsive need to scare people

Like, morality aside, it needs to terrify

But honestly dragons are all over the place even in irl mythology, heck even morphological arguments don't fit every single particular type of dragon without excluding some traits in some way

[craggy thunder]

I will point out that is why I asked for nonmorphological arguments, so as to not exclude hexapodal dragons or loong or ryu

[astral prawn]

It fits the definition of an Occult Dragon as Paizo have set out, morphologically and personality wise

[craggy thunder]

idk maybe it's the art and gimmick letting me down

[astral prawn]

Tbf, that is also the Young one

[craggy thunder]

cuz like 'dragon that morphologically needs to terrify' is an interesting dragon concept

[astral prawn]

Young Dragons always look a little goofy

[craggy thunder]

Because in western canon

dragons are supposed to be fucking terrifying

it's probably the tongue thing and

the unfortunate reality that I will never be scared of this thing because my party bard will dick joke it to death

[astral prawn]

I'd love to see an Adult and Ancient, as well as an Archdragon form of this guy

[craggy thunder]

lol fair

[echo briar]

The authors have stated it is a dragon.

[astral prawn]

Like this is baby, mama and grandmama may look more draconic and horrifying

[echo briar]

Or does it also need to be wattsonian

[astral prawn]

But yeah it fits with Occult Dragons physically

Oh god it has square blocky toe nails

[echo briar]

Also, do we know if it has any illusion abilities? That could be a form it takes just to scare things

[limber comet]

Don't the tokens for dragons have variants based on age

In 2e

[astral prawn]

It can inflate it's tongue to mimic a Humanoid or Animal, which it can use up to 20 feet away as a lure

[desert vale]

It feels weird because we are used to D&D dragons

[astral prawn]

Child stuck in a crevice? Might just be this thing's bladder while it lies in wait

It can also cast fear and other spells of its ilk

[desert vale]

And. If this was random draconic critter people probably wouldnt complain but we gave specific aesthetic ideas built in by decades of standardized design

[limber comet]

I much prefer the tradition based dragons as opposed to chromatic/metallic

The designs are much more interesting

[desert vale]

Also I think they are going further away from the classic dragon designs with the ones they are releasing next?

[astral prawn]

Yeah, like how the Copper has become the Mocking Dragon

[craggy thunder]

grumbles that I have been beaten

xD

I mean if you can think of a Wattsonian one I would like to hear it, if only because I think it'd be interesting and I can't think of one

[astral prawn]

Like yeah Occult Dragons just seem to be where they want to put the really weird dragon ideas and I love that for them

Also like they said on stream, it makes them more interesting and more usable by GMs. On the left? Goodly fellow you're never gonna fight as a good PC. On the right? Little freak defacing property insisting it's actually good you guys while looking like a fucked up Kefka cosplayer

Who has a compulsion to humiliate those in power

[echo briar]

It lives underground. Natural selection made it resemble a naked mole rat via convergent evolution

[craggy thunder]

...

you're probably right but also fuck off XD

[astral prawn]

But also it's magical so it could be like that because it simply came to be because of Draconic nightmares

Like maybe this thing came out of the dreamscape of a dragon god and that's where the first ones first formed, and reality just has to accept these weirdos now and adapt them to be physically possible in the Universe

[turbid dagger]

I'll admit I'm not sure about Golarion dragons now being Strange
There's a reason Fatalis is the dragon everyone pops off about
But there are a few more normal ones mixed in so like, I do appreciate the weirdoes

[limber comet]

Every dragon in MC 1 that wasn't occult was "normal"

I guess you could argue that Adamantine is weird but

Shrug

[turbid dagger]

Not really?
Empyreal and Infernal dragons are celestial beings, Fortune Dragons practice body modification with magic items, Conspirator dragons are rubbery people-mimics, Mirage and Omen dragons are based around weird magic stuff and also just look strange
I wouldn't even count the Adamantine because it's more like a winged rhino tank thing
The closest to the vibe of a classic dragon is Horned, because it's fairly straightfacedly just the Green Dragon with the serial numbers filed off
And the Horned Dragon is my fave :3

[limber comet]

Mirage dragons are not weird

[craggy thunder]

well

[limber comet]

I'm gonna GET you

[craggy thunder]

empyreal and infernal dragons aren't really that weird

dragons as celestial/infernal is very common

St. George & the Dragon and Shenlong, etc

[turbid dagger]

Mirage takes second place behind the Horned Dragon

[craggy thunder]

And fortune dragons are kind of an exemplar of the 'hoarding, greedy dragon' trope

Now

I think fortune dragons' breath weapon should still be fire because

come on

But it's not thaaat strange

[limber comet]

Conspirator dragons could also be representative of dragons frequently being able to shapeshift

[frank crystal]

Infernal dragons are basically red dragons but now instead of being assholes for no reason they’re assholes because they’re from literal hell

[turbid dagger]

Fortune Dragons are a logical progression of the 'classic dragon' archetype
But they aren't the classic dragon
Because they nail swords into themselves and wear necklaces made out of shields

[desert vale]

Conspirator dragons are loosely based on blue dragons I think?

[limber comet]

Do we need more than a handful of classic dragons

[turbid dagger]

We don't
I said this
If the Cinder Dragon winds up being fairly normal I am groovy

[astral prawn]

Primal kinda feel like they're meant to be the most classical

[desert vale]

Its all weirdness about the idea of true dragons

[astral prawn]

And Arcane is kinda normal but suddenly BARRAGE DRAGON

Literal Touhou Bullet Hell-ass Dragon

[frank crystal]

Honestly I want more classical dragons for the new dragon player options to have a wider variety of damage types

[limber comet]

We do need a cold/lightning dragon

[astral prawn]

We've confirmed that Rime is on the way

And that's a remastered White

Delight Dragons are kinda weird as a mildly insectile dragon but Divine are relatively normal from what we've seen, just tinted by Divine flavour

[limber comet]

Oh Rime dragons confirmed? Baller

Also Delight dragons were in 1e as havoc dragons

[astral prawn]

I guess Arcane are meant to be logical extremes of magic that Dragons frequently interact with/magic in general

[astral prawn]

I recognize Aivu I know what they're about

[turbid dagger]

I believe we've got an indirect confirmation that Black Dragons are coming back in some form too
As that Dragon's Demand CRPG is based off a 1e adventure prominently featuring one and a lot of folks asked 'uhh well what's up with that'

[astral prawn]

Bog Dragon ye

[frank crystal]

Yah I will say I’m very happy to see the classic dragons coming back in the form of “dragon that lives in X”

[astral prawn]

But also this gives Paizo the room to do more interesting things with dragons, which can be very samey

[frank crystal]

Just because I do like them a lot

[limber comet]

Barrage Dragons my beloved

Also digging the Draconic Codex Magma Dragon redesign

Feels much more earth-y

[craggy thunder]

I will admit I probably won't use many of these new dragons, but it's not bad they exist

[frank crystal]

Woah me dragon

[craggy thunder]

I am admittedly a 'fire breathing lizard' enjoyer

[frank crystal]

Same

[astral prawn]

I wanna find ways to use all the new dragons

[frank crystal]

It’s why I was kinda disappointed only diabolic dragons were fire in the remaster

[astral prawn]

I've used Conspirator as an Asmodean body double for important clerics

[craggy thunder]

If I run a fortune dragon I'm making their breath fire cuz come on it's fucking Smaug but he nails his treasure to himself

we have flame drake tho I suppose

[frank crystal]

Eh, drakes aren’t the same imo

[craggy thunder]

wait

[astral prawn]

We're getting Cinder too so Remastered Red is on the way

[limber comet]

I would just do what the Diabolic dragon does and make it force/fire (whichever they're weakest to)

[frank crystal]

Especially with how weak they relatively are

[craggy thunder]

is the term for a group of dragons

[frank crystal]

Like flame drakes are level 5 I think

[craggy thunder]

a 'rampage'?

that's fuckin great

[astral prawn]

Nah that's Drakes

[frank crystal]

For dragons a group is called a bank

[craggy thunder]

I like the Jungle Drakes

snakey

[limber comet]

I'm personally partial to Conclave of Dragons (for reasons)

[astral prawn]

Will say I love some old lore of the classic dragons

[frank crystal]

Is it really small or is that branch big?

[craggy thunder]

I cannot tell if that's a shitpost but it made me think of the Great Dragon Bank in ksbd

[astral prawn]

E.g. Reds would laugh about how pathetic and weak a fellow Red was that just got killed, then swarm en masse to exterminate the place where the Red was killed/the killers were from

[frank crystal]

It was meant to be a joke but honestly I do kinda like it

[astral prawn]

Black Dragons being so awful that the other Dragons would invite the inbred dumb White Dragons to moots but not them

[craggy thunder]

Though in that case it's a tongue in cheek joke about how Mammon is Smaug if Smaug had dementia

[astral prawn]

I hope they salvage a lot of it for Draconic Codex

[frank crystal]

Yah

[craggy thunder]

I imagine the art is meant to convey the vibe it's smaller and more agile than other drakes, but it is still Large

so that is about a 7 foot wide branch

[frank crystal]

I do love chromatic dragons as like, terrible selfish assholes who hate every other chromatic dragon for not being as good as them

They’re an entire species of scheming viziers but also they can single handedly destroy nations

[frank crystal]

That’s a huge branch goddamn

That’s a whole tree

[craggy thunder]

in a fantasy jungle?

relatively impressive, sure, but totally a branch on a bigger tree

[frank crystal]

True yah

I forgot Golarion jungles can get huge

[limber comet]

Jungles in general just get huge

It's wild