Pathfinder

[clever cobalt]

Shortsword would work best imo

[craggy thunder]

This isn't a dex character tho

[novel merlin]

IMO just go longsword or another d8 weapon like khopesh

[warped orbit]

Asp coil is also something to consider

[warped orbit]

Khopesh is good yeah

[novel merlin]

Asp coil is very good yeah

[craggy thunder]

Funnily enough due to the setup of this campaign I specifically can't have one

we are members of the pathfinder society specifically

[warped orbit]

Just kill some Comsortium guys and steal it off them 😛

[novel merlin]

This is always in a backstory if I want a asp coil lmao

[errant roost]

"my backstory is that I found an asp coil in a pawn shop"

[surreal basin]

As a champ with an orichalcum weapon u could get 5 runes

6 with mythic rules

[echo briar]

I think you could get a few more if you include accessory runes

[surreal basin]

On the weapon?

[echo briar]

Yes

Nothing says you can’t

Weapons aren’t invested

It would have to be light though

[crystal walrus]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-second-edition-asian-fantasy-bundle-paizo-books

[novel merlin]

ooh physical book

[surreal basin]

Why specifically dark archive???

[novel merlin]

I thiiiink that might have been the books with Fulus in it

And some vaguely similar stuff

[solar thorn]

Son of a bitch i just spent 90 bucks on the core pdfs lol

[astral prawn]

Just checking, is it possible to buy items higher than your level or is that a hard cap? (e.g. a Level 1 PC cannot buy a Level 4 item in a Level 4 settlement)

I'm asking in case I just can't find the rule and it's there

(Either way GM says no so it's just a curiosity thing)

[surreal basin]

Not a hard cap

[astral prawn]

Yeah she confirmed it was a hard cap she invented

Gave us 25 gold and we can barely spend it because we already bought alot of what we needed out of the gate lol

[keen raptor]

From what I understand, item levels are meant to be guidelines so that something will be difficult to buy with the amount of money a PC of that level would be making, but you can still buy them if you do happen to find enough money.

But if your DM is choosing to restrict them, well, healing potions are never not useful.

[surreal basin]

Well, I’d argue the level 1 versions might not be worth buying at all

[trim grotto]

whats a good way to make an assassin kinda character that can turn invisible

rogue is a good fit but idk how to get invisibility other than magic items

[novel merlin]

Caster archetype to get spell slots

[warped orbit]

Red Mantis Assassin gets some spells I think?

[rustic cape]

A true sneakwizard type is, alas, a bit of an unfilled niche

You could rough it with rogue + caster archetype, or maybe do laughing shadow magus

[rustic cape]

I will throw out there that high-level rogues don't really need invisibility, they can just sorta hide wherever they're standing if they build for it

[eager mountain]

FUCKIN CYBER DEMON!

[rustic cape]

Some ancestry feats (mostly goblin) can allow you to do at lest some parts of that sooner

[rustic cape]

Huh, Ferrous Form seems like a pretty neat spell

Thinking Spirit Warrior Sprite for an upcoming Wardens of Wildwood game

Either Fighter or Thaum

[craggy thunder]

kaiju defense oath I assume lol

[rustic cape]

yeeeep

[craggy thunder]

nice

[rustic cape]

Thaum is on the one hand Thaum

And Fighter is on the other hand Fighter

Oh but wait fighters only get accelerated progression on one weapon group

That makes Thaum somewhat more attractive

maybe the GM can be persuaded to open up the mythical dual-class game

[craggy thunder]

l m a o

[craggy thunder]

do a fun thing and make the dual class a caster or somethin imo

[rustic cape]

I'd probably do something like Rogue/Thaum because that would be very, very funny

[limber comet]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/Pe6jYtp9xF

[tight flare]

Almost dead with like 20% HP left on my magus.
Teleports next to boss.
Gets in one attack.
Is attacked back, massive combo.
Down to 4/5 dying and bleeding.
Rolls a 20 on next dying check.
Also loses bleeding.
Never punished.

[rapid wagon]

can someone tell me what the hunter's hagbook is for? it seems pretty non useful despite it being meant to be for fighting hags

[warped orbit]

you get some free spells and you can potentially increase your saves against coven spells

seems decent enough

[rapid wagon]

i guess specific to adventure, most of these spells arent useable when you get it and for a battle with a hag

and it seems like no one can use it except a prepared caster, which really narrows down who its applicable to

[limber comet]

Are we gonna talk about the dating sim card game for Pathfinder monsters orrr...

[rustic cape]

wat

[heavy fulcrum]

https://paizo.com/products/btq0crq3/discuss?Pathfinder-Monster-Match-Card-Game

[clever cobalt]

We better get a Kholo character

[trim bluff]

My character, "lucky", is certainly living up to the name
First d20 roll was initiative, got a 2
Second d20 roll was to shoot a skeleton with my blowgun because i didnt have any better options (bane and doom are fear effects, inflict wounds heals them, one did over half my hp in a single round so i didnt wanna risk getting close enough to use cure wounds), rolled like a 5 and missed
Third d20 roll was a climb check to climb down a rope, took off my armor and cast guidance on myself for maxiumum chances, rolled a 1 and plummeted 80 feet. Only barely survived because someone caught me and rolled well and i damn near took them down with me

[plain karma]

Gravity, most successful spells

[limber comet]

Got a silly ish question here

What pf2e class do we think Odysseus would be?

[solar storm]

So I think Exemplar is like low hanging fruit

But Rogue

[limber comet]

Okay but hear me out

Commander

[limber comet]

Exemplar is a bit too punchy and not enough thinky

[solar storm]

Odysseus isn’t… super notable as a commander

He’s a freak with a bow and underhanded as hell more than anything else

[limber comet]

This was my second thought yeah

[clever cobalt]

Yeah I agree with Rogue

[solar storm]

His aristeia in the Iliad is sneaking into a camp at night and shanking everyone in their sleep

[limber comet]

Okay yeah Rogue I agree

I've never actually read the Illiad or the Odyssey, I should

Do that

[solar storm]

The exemplar is probably Diomedes

[clever cobalt]

Or Hercules

(Hercules also works as a Barbarian)

[solar storm]

I’m just going off of Homerics haha

So mostly the Iliad

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[limber comet]

Exemplar is just a gimmie tho for mythic adventurers

[solar storm]

Diomedes is extra notable because he wounds 2 gods

[limber comet]

.

God damn?

[solar storm]

Achilles is easy though, Barbarian

[rustic cape]

Diomedes also manages to wound two gods because gods invest him with divine power so like

Yeah that's an exemplar

[carmine egret]

If it's the Hades II version

but yeah the rogue argument is strong

[solar storm]

Sing, Goddess, sing of the Rage [Barbarian, Concentrate, Emotion, Mental] of Achilles, son of Peleus—
that murderous anger which condemned Achaeans
to countless agonies and threw many warrior souls
deep into Hades, leaving their dead bodies
carrion food for dogs and birds—
all in fulfilment of the will of Zeus.

[rustic cape]

Yeah, Achilles is one of those Very Very Angry Mythic Heroes With A Spear

There are a bunch of those

[solar storm]

Yeah for sure

Greater Ajax could probably be a champion?

[rustic cape]

Not just Greek I mean, it's just sorta a motif >_>

[solar storm]

Sorry I'm just going through the list now

[rustic cape]

Menelaus?

Menelaus vs. Paris remains maybe the funniest scene in the whole saga

[solar storm]

I don't remember how he fights

[frank crystal]

He did have a lot of men and ships under his command

But quite famously, didn’t go super well for them

[solar storm]

Most of them do, I think Achilles actually has the largest force in the Iliad

So much so that it's a huge problem for the Greeks when he gets huffy and has his Myrmidons quit the field

I can see it cause it's a wiley class but Odysseus is such a shyster in so much of the media featuring him it's hard for me to say anything but Rogue

[craggy thunder]

I mean in the war itself it went extremely well for them

All of his losses were postwar

[rustic cape]

Odysseus probably just sticks around with Circe if Athena doesn't give him a kick in the ass eventually

[frank crystal]

That is true, so I guess how good of a commander he is depends on how highly you value like, travel command

Which admittedly is a very important skill for the time

When just getting an army to a place was enough of a challenge

[solar thorn]

man its hard making encounters varied for level 1 based on XP rules

everything ends up either being 75 - 90 XP (high moderate), a total pushover (kill this maggot) or very likely to be lethal (the giant scorpion from Abomination Vaults) since crits will instantly put a player in the ground

1 level 1 and two level -1s? 80 XP
3 level 0's? 90 XP
even a level 0 and two level -1's is 70 XP lol

[wooden orbit]

Gotta say....I'd be hard pressed not to play a Kalo in Starfinder 2E

[wooden orbit]

https://bsky.app/profile/ritunnthewriter.bsky.social/post/3lngkb3ide22t

Ritunn (@ritunnthewriter.bsky.social)

Got the Starfinder Galaxy Guide today and it's great, but I have one question: why the brain cheeked up?

Bluesky · Apr 22, 2025, 8:44 PM

[rapid wagon]

hmm, my metal kineticist sadly died, gotta replace him in a bloodlords campaign. Party lacks a healer, thinking i do something like an alchemist or maybe a summoner heavily specced into non magical healing; is that viable?

[warped orbit]

anyone can go into Medicine and be pretty good healing wise

[rapid wagon]

gotta be able to address the need for the option to heal with non vitality (on account of it being illegal)

so it seems a good fit

[wooden orbit]

Could bring your kineticist back as a ghoul or skelly

[warped orbit]

they were already a skeleton IIRC

oh also, if you rely on Medicine for healing, it's useful if people get Robust Health as a General Feat

to reduce the cooldown on Battle Medicine to only an hour

(poor Forensics Investigators getting their shtick stolen 😔 )

[echo briar]

For non vitality healing, play a bard. Sooth is not a vitality spell

[rustic cape]

Rogue especially is really good for this

[rustic cape]

Animist. Garden of Healing is non-vitality, and you can get heal and harm as apparition spells without problems.

[surreal basin]

Hmmm

Thinking if monastic weaponry should just be like

A default feature of a class

Rather than a feat

[rustic cape]

I think it should

Or, well

It's complicated because the class kinda expects you to take a stance feat

And monk stances are quite strong

Probably stronger than monastic weaponry

But they do take an action to get into

But then otoh monastic weaponry has no level 6 extension feats

And also having your basic combat schtick basically requiring your first level feat evokes complicated feelings

I don't even know that it's wrong, it's just

iunno

[trail nova]

My take is that “punchies” should just be another weapon, and that monk should work with any weapon (and maybe make unarmed a martial-quality weapon as a class feature), stances just focus on certain traits of weapons.

So for example Wolf Stance kicks in with any “trip” keyword weapon.

[wooden orbit]

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1051581 This is my current build for my friend's Extinction Curse campaign

[warped orbit]

IMO yes

Taxing it extra when most Monk weapons are already only okay is kinda excessive

[rustic cape]

Monk is kind of a weird class because so much of its power budget is in passives

[surreal basin]

Just had my players take out a haunt by beating it to death for the first time

Admittedly the halved it’s hardness before doing so

[solar storm]

wow that's rare

[clever cobalt]

I did that once in Gatewalkers

[clever cobalt]

Anyone else in a mythic game?

[echo briar]

https://www.wargamer.com/pathfinder/draconic-codex-monster-core-2

[frank crystal]

Chat room, does stepping trigger traps that are triggered by moving into or out of a tile?

[warped orbit]

Huh

Good question

[frank crystal]

Second question, are there traps which trigger based off specific types of creatures?

(Specifically anti undead traps)

[errant roost]

I love this, conceptually, (huge little guy energy) but it feels tonally weird to be playing

"You'll also have the option to play a homing drake, a tiny dragon that people love to use as pets or racing animals (though the feral ones have the less complimentary name of "pest drakes")."
like. are they pets or people? are humanoids commonly keeping dragonets as slaves? or is this a Goofy/Pluto situation and most dragonets aren't sapient?

(there's a good chance that the actual book explains this better, and the secondhand commentary engine is muddling things)

[surreal basin]

I mean tbh there are a good number of creatures that seemingly like the life of a well kept pet

Sentient creatures I mean

It’s a p common thing that comes up

[steel blade]

i mean im assuming its probably not too disimilar from like, Leshy as an ancestry vs Leshy as a familiar, or Catfolk vs just normal cats

[wary yoke]

I mean the former has an actual supernatural component

[limber comet]

From the Wargamer teases of Monster Core 2

I really, REALLY love the direction they're taking archons/lawful celestials

Gate Archon featured here

[novel merlin]

The gate archon is... A gate

With feet

[limber comet]

Biblical gate

Really excited for the new Monster Core 2 dragons

Rune dragon? Requiem dragon? I will be there

[rustic cape]

Overly Literal Archons is a very old tradition

Trumpet archons? Have trumpets

Hound archons? Dogs

I assume LG just sees truth-in-advertising as important

[solar storm]

Looks like a jukebox

[turbid dagger]

I trust him

[limber comet]

Be nice to them

[wooden orbit]

Friend shaped

[rapid wagon]

is there a monk fighting style that feels more like a roll and tumble brawler?

I'm trying to imagine a geb monk

who worked for/with the reanimator's guild

[novel merlin]

Gymnast swashbuckler might be more of the vibe?

Or maybe just wolf stance?

[vocal ember]

I think that would just be a monk with Acrobat dedication maybe?

[warped orbit]

you could also do a Fighter with Martial Artist or Wrestler archetype

[surreal basin]

Stumbling Stance

[warped orbit]

Thief Rogue with Stumbling or Wolf is also a very good more sneaky brawler

[echo briar]

Demiplane seems to be the first to have the galaxy guide stuff available, but apparently due to an error you it’s under paywall.

But they claim to be fixing it, so don’t buy it if you are willing to wait a few hours for it to be free

[turbid dagger]

I feel like any monk stance that does blunt can at least work for brawler punching, with reflavoring
But if reflavoring is in play I always say ape animal barb is actually best for that

Big blunt grapple fist strike and all of barbs grappling support

[rustic cape]

Having played with both: Stumbling is preferable just on its own, it absolutely wrecks and you can do retaliatory Off Guard

Wolf is strictly weaker, but its metastrike feat is quite strong

Automatic prone on hit

This can be combined nicely with a normally weak rogue feat, Head Stomp

The power differential isn't huge, either way

One of the biggest things is that Wolf does Piercing

And amphisbaena handwraps make your unarmed strikes versatile piercing

So you miss that benefit

[warped orbit]

Head Stomp is pretty neat if you are unarmed, yeah

[rustic cape]

Being able to prone by targeting AC is also very nice

Tragically, it has no synergy with the wolf claw strike itself

But especially for thief rogues, with their low strength scores, it's extremely useful

[echo briar]

The more and more I look into demiplane, the worse and worse of an official Paizo partner it looks.

It is supposed to have all the new starfinder stuff that came out today for free, except that they forgot to actually make it free.

[rustic cape]

Yeah, it kinda sucks

[echo briar]

Now you can access it for free, but only if you have an account, again due to a technical issue

[rustic cape]

It’s got loads of display issues which mostly seem to come down to being over ambitious

[echo briar]

Like, it probably is a technical issue, but it sure looks suspicious

[rustic cape]

AoN is clunky as hell and looks bad at times, but it’s a pretty good digital archive in that it’s very usable

The basic search is solid and the advanced search is very robust once you start to figure it out

[echo briar]

You can also just feel the profit motive off of demiplane.

[surreal basin]

Yeaaah

Demiplane is pretty bad

They’ve also routinely accidentally spoiled things

By releasing them like

A month early

[rustic cape]

AoN feels like, and I say this with so much affection, a spectacularly well-curated Geocities website in the best possible way

[echo briar]

Even things like pathbuilder, which I’m pretty sure is it’s creators job now, feel like a passion project that hit it big. Demiplane is just a compony

[rustic cape]

Pathbuilder is possibly the best online character creator I have ever seen, in large part because it is so bare-bones but all of the bones are present and work correctly

[surreal basin]

It’s insane how good it is yeah

Honestly AoN, I can forgive every problem but the recent update schedule

The recent update problem has been…. Real not good lmao

[rustic cape]

The old D&D Insider character creator for 4e was at a similar level to Pathbuilder but also like

Consider the relative resources of those two things

And Pathbuilder seems absolutely wild

[surreal basin]

Man I wish the 4e stuff had continued

I get why it didn’t don’t get me wrong

But man the potential of those tools was so good

[rustic cape]

Continues to rub me the wrong way how much effort modern WotC has put into pretending D&D didn't exist before 5e

Comp/Con is another one that's ultra-robust, but a Lancer character is arguably a smaller, simpler thing than a PF2e character

[surreal basin]

Honestly imo comp con is mostly notable for how integrated people make third party stuff

It’s v good

[rustic cape]

Just sorta feels like Pathbuilder is on that level doing as much with less

[surreal basin]

Absolutely

Speaking of comparisons

Holy shit yall

I cannot describe to you how bad 5e’s foundry support is

It’s gotten to the point where my group believes they’re intentionally sabotaging it in order to make their in progress VTT more attractive

I’m so glad 2e’s foundry system is as insanely robust as it is

[rustic cape]

Paizo seems to have recognized over the course of 2e's life that all of these 3rd-party applications are pretty big selling points for their game

And so collaborating with them makes sense

To some degree they went in knowing this from 1e

[surreal basin]

[steel blade]

you mean the in progress vtt they cancelled?

oh, i guess it isnt fully cancelled, but they layed off 90% of the team and said it isn't a priority anymore

[astral prawn]

You mean the 3d one they canned a week after it launched?

[keen raptor]

WOTC gonna WOTC

[frank crystal]

For a wild shape focused druid, who will probably spend most fights in a combat form, is it worth it to invest in str?

Or should I just do the usual wis, con, dex

[turbid dagger]

Untamed Form lets you get a little boost if you can manage to get your to-hit bonus to be on par with Wild Shape's own
Now, uh
I don't actually know how easy that is to do because wild shape's mechanics are a fucking mess

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s what I’m kinda thinking

Like yah I get a bonus, if my caster unarmed strike reaches a combat form

Which seems unlikely

[turbid dagger]

What I'd advise you to do, is just go in pathbuilder and build a max str druid and see how your fist mods look at the levels you are interested in

[frank crystal]

Alright

Second question, do scaled combat forms keep up with new combat forms or should I seek to replace them as soon as I get a new level of combat form?

Like going from animal to elemental form

[rustic cape]

It's very difficult for a druid to do this, given their slow proficiency growth

[rustic cape]

Scaling combat forms tends to hit limits relatively quickly, barring shenanigans

[warped orbit]

This works on exactly one level btw

And it's like level 7 IIRC

You can only really do it if you play like a Fighter/Druid

[frank crystal]

Yah so I should be looking for the next best one then

Alright

[frank crystal]

Ok then so yah definitely going to prioritize wis and con then

Any combat forms in specific I should look for?

[warped orbit]

Don't know much about forms

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

[frank crystal]

Hmm, how viable is a melee caster Gish via a mounted beastmaster

[novel merlin]

By melee caster do you mean magus?

[frank crystal]

No I mean like a normal caster

Who goes to fight on the frontlines via a mount

[turbid dagger]

Druid is definitely best at this
It's actually more durable than rogue

Having shield block and better armor prof

[frank crystal]

Oh neat

[turbid dagger]

Now broadly
Id probably suggest gouging claw over actually swinging a sword in melee

[thorny berry]

I had a pre-remaster battle oracle build for this (rip)

but yeah with a mature companion I'd say you want to default towards having the companion move and then a two-action spell and a bespell weapon strike

seems doable

though the gains over just using a ranged weapon may be pretty minimal

[rustic cape]

Gouging claw and melee ignition are quite potent

Almost certainly better than using a weapon as your primary offense

[frank crystal]

Oh yah even with this build the idea I had was the mount handles movement and melee attacks

And the caster just focuses on casting spells

[frank crystal]

Couldn’t I go with the mount attacking instead?

[thorny berry]

I don't see why not! I'm not sure offhand how a companion attack compares to a caster proficiency attack numbers-wise

caster attacks also potentially get to benefit from jousting weapons

[frank crystal]

If I use a melee spell how do I benefit from that?

[surreal basin]

Melee spellcasting always worries me just because getting hit by AoOs sucks so bad

[frank crystal]

Yah probably want a reach mount for that alone

…are there any reach mounts?

[surreal basin]

….. oh a mount with reach on THEIR attack

[frank crystal]

Ye

Also what the fuck they added Rocs to the available animal companions?

[surreal basin]

Yuh

Megafauna

[frank crystal]

I assume you need to be a higher level to grab one of those

[surreal basin]

Giraffe have reach

[frank crystal]

I see

Also kinda weird bear is a small creature

Like it doesn’t mention anything about it being a baby bear

And it’s advanced maneuver revolves around grappling

[surreal basin]

Yeah just giraffe

Well remember

They get bigger

[frank crystal]

Admittedly a sorcerer riding a giraffe to battle is pretty fun

[frank crystal]

Oh when?

[surreal basin]

When u spec into animal companions i know u can make them larger, i think when you take mature

[frank crystal]

Ah yah that’s one of the benefits

[surreal basin]

Giant frog is an advanced companion that gets 15 foot reach on tongue

[frank crystal]

Still it is sorta weird that like, bears max out at medium then

[surreal basin]

If u make it savage it becomes large but I getcha

[frank crystal]

Oh ok

[echo briar]

Is there anywhere with the galaxy guide stuff up yet?

demiplane continues to be plagued by making its product completely non functional unless you pay them money

[crystal walrus]

@surreal basin https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-NNIQVrSzA9Yu-zU3ygq

[surreal basin]

ooo

[crystal walrus]

since you mentioned it

i had seen it in my run around

can't vouch for quality but something to look it

[wary yoke]

I am intrigued

[surreal basin]

dark sun is pretty low power right

like typically below level 10?

because i will admit they did a thing from the mwangi book that annoys me and gave an ancestry no level 17 feats lmao

[warped orbit]

it's generally lower level, yes

[turbid dagger]

Yeeee
I know of a well regarded 1-30 campaign and there is epic-level stuff in 4e like becoming an Avangion or Hordelord but typically it's cavemen fighting giant bugs in the desert and such

[rustic cape]

Fun fact: Dark Sun in AD&D actually required PCs start at level 4

It was assumed the challenges of being a survivor on Athas were such that only the very skilled might be doing Adventurer Bullshit

@surreal basin Sort of the opposite, actually. It's a borderline comically deadly setting where very high power individuals and creatures exist and have no guarantee of survival

Most people have psychic powers and spellcasting is very limited

Since, no gods, and arcane casting is generally kinda evil and widely despised

[turbid dagger]

Unless you are a Jedi Preserver (you'll still be despised tho)

[limber comet]

I want a setting like Athas that's not...so grim? Like, ah, how do I explain it

Dangerous and wild, very caveman-esque, but not "every other person you meet is a slave trader"

More cave fantasy I suppose

Somewhere between the Croods, Conan the Barbarian, and Dark Sun lmfao

[surreal basin]

U can be a cleric of like

Elemental lords and stuff right

[turbid dagger]

There are clerics in Athas yeah, you venerate the elements

Well, you can also be a Templar, which in earlier editions at least functioned as clerics that drew power from the Sorceror Kings
But in 4e templars are actually warlocks iirc

[surreal basin]

So they would… probably be witches

[turbid dagger]

Hmmmm
Templars iirc have a bulkier make than your average witch but in concept yes

Though
They also don't have familiars
So honestly maybe stick to cleric💀

[trim grotto]

i wish construct inventor didn't need to give up feat slots to advanced, incredible, and paragon companion

[thorny berry]

oh, you don't basically lol that would only be useful for a 'save spell + third action strike' build

which of course not applicable if you want to stick with mount attacks

[rustic cape]

4e's default setting, Nentir Vale/Points of Light

[eager mountain]

HUH

https://tenor.com/view/cummins-gif-12535975135255283466

i swear I killed that guy

llike I killed that guy in pathfinder

[echo briar]

Nethys is updated with all the AP stuff. I think they are finally caught up

New favorite spell dropped https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=2439

[errant roost]

I'm impressed that they found a more innocuous name than "Candyman"

[steel blade]

they aren't fully caught up, still missing stuff from Shades of Blood past the players guide gimme sanguimancer dang it

[frank crystal]

Question, do animal companions scale beyond the mature animal feat line?

[warped orbit]

Yes

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[warped orbit]

You get advanced companions and then specialised

[frank crystal]

Oh I was asking about just like, their base stats

HP, AC and hit modifiers

[warped orbit]

Yeah they get extra stats from those

[frank crystal]

Is it just by leveling up?

[warped orbit]

Well they increase their prof by leveling as normal

The feats give more stats and proficiency bumps

[echo briar]

Animal companions are extremely feat heavy

Do not take one if you aren’t going to continually invest in it.

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

Admittedly kinda sucks that their unarmed attack prof doesn’t increase until specialized but it’s probably fine

Also I just realized that with how the upgrade feats work, if I ever get a second animal companion I’ll definitely only have it for utility purposes

Like a mount with a really specific speed like a swim or flying speed

[ocean cobalt]

i love to have 10 minute long conversations in which we say exactly 25 words each

[errant roost]

25 words and then nine minutes of awkward silence where you know someone else is on the line, but you can't hear them

25 words and then nine minutes of trying to communicate with grunting and verbal charades

[tight flare]

Is it worth it to replace my darkvision feat with feats to make me permanently large?

(on an automaton magus)

Using a halberd as main weapon

[echo briar]

Depends on what maps you’re GM uses

In general yes, but a lot of narrow hallways can make it hurt more than it helps

[rustic cape]

It also depends on the specifics of the largening and whether you're getting reach and/or damage bonuses

[tight flare]

True true. The reach would be really helpful to our rogue if nothing else

I'm just worried about losing darkvision. I should just buy goggles for that though

[rustic cape]

Reach can also sometimes protect you from reactive strikes as a magus

On the other hand, reach is also much more valuable with reactive strike or champion reactions of your own

IIRC, automaton darkvision can be upgraded to provide see the unseen?

[tight flare]

Yeah that might be worth it more

[echo briar]

Generally speaking it’s easier to just buy darkvision than size

[rustic cape]

And see the unseen, as well

@tight flare What is your feat lineup?

[vocal ember]

I think either could be a fine option, it depends on the circumstances. It should also be noted that enhanced Arcane Eye gives you See the Unseen as an innate spell you can cast once per hour though, not as a constant innate spell, so is more or less replaceable with like a few wands.

[rustic cape]

Aye, and it requires your 9th-level feat

Which, if you're doing mage automaton, is probably spoken for

Personally, for a magus, I'd probably run something like Arcane Eye (1st), Reinforced Chassis (5th), Core Attunement (9th), Enlarged Chassis (13th), Greater Augmentation (17th)

[warped orbit]

found out today that in PFS Reinforced Chassis does not count as armor?

which seems weird

[tight flare]

Gimme a sec. I wonder if I can opy paste from pathbuilder somehow

[rustic cape]

The feat text doesn't say anything to indicate that it would, weirdly

So ... automaton monks

[tight flare]

ARCHETYPE FEATs
Basic Wizard Spellcasting
Expert Wizard Spellcasting
Wizard Dedication
AUTOMATON FEATs
Arcane Eye
Arcane Propulsion
Astral Blink
Greater Augmentation
Reinforced Chassis
GENERAL FEATs
Diehard
Fleet
Incredible Initiative
Toughness
MAGUS FEATs
Attack of Opportunity
Expansive Spellstrike
Force Fang
Overwhelming Spellstrike
Rapid Recharge
SKILL FEATs
Assured Identification
Experienced Tracker
Kip Up
Lead Climber
Multilingual
Quick Jump
Quick Swim
Recognize Spell
Wall Jump

A bit spammy but...

[rustic cape]

Personally I don't think Arcane Propulsion is great, I'd probably drop that

A 20 foot climb speed at level, what, 9?

[tight flare]

It's handy to be able to fly though, but I guess a spell could replace it

I had major issues finding skill feats to pick

[rustic cape]

Nimble Crawl is secretly amazing

Steady Balance, too

[warped orbit]

yeah

[rustic cape]

The whole jump line from Athletics works out to provide you with almost absurdly fast movement

[tight flare]

Feat lineup is also a bit fillerish in part because we started at level 11 or so

It's Stolen Fate

[rustic cape]

Also: while by no means mandatory, might want to consider psychic over wizard for archetype stuff

Imaginary Weapon is silly

[tight flare]

That'd be pretty funny

I did it mostly because lack of utility

We don't have any normal casters

Magus
Dwarf rogue
Half elf kineticist (air?)
Goblin psychic
Goblin psychic
Human fighter

We've seen how great imaginary weapon is 😛

[turbid dagger]

Ohhhhh I think that's a guns and gears remaster change or something
It was definitely just 'comfortable breastplate' before

But yeah that's
That's
Build defining

Oh yep

[tight flare]

I think I'll have to go beeg

[rustic cape]

Aye, it is somewhat wilder than usual on someone who can both frontline and swing with enhancement runes

[warped orbit]

yeah that's pretty huge for Monks and casters

[frank crystal]

Oh shit so it counts as being unarmored now?

I assume you can still apply runes to it via adventuring clothes?

[frank crystal]

Oh or just directly onto it

Either way Golarion sees a sudden surge in automatons who are really good at punching

[rustic cape]

Notably, this means there's a way to get heavy-armor equivalent unarmored total

Playing my animist at 20th level, AMA

[frank crystal]

One shot or campaign?

[rustic cape]

Strength of Thousands

[frank crystal]

Subclass choices?

[rustic cape]

The good one

:P

Liturgist

[warped orbit]

Liturgist

[frank crystal]

[warped orbit]

The best choice

[frank crystal]

Why is it the best one?

[rustic cape]

Two reasons: the ability to sustain by leaping or stepping has a lot of synergies that make you the master of sustains by a mile

My character gets two free sustains most turns, and that's not even fully optimized

So, reason one is that it really plays to the animist's strengths

Reason two, which is related, is that it really plays to the animist's strengths in a way that is really pretty fun

The other subclasses are comparatively boring

I love animist but a number of the reasons I love it are tied up in liturgist's playstyle

[frank crystal]

I see

[rustic cape]

It pushes you to optimize some stuff you wouldn't normally touch

[clever cobalt]

Animist in general seems pretty good mechanically

[rustic cape]

I love it

It's strong, and more importantly it's fun

I'm hesitant to play any other caster simply because it would be so much less dynamic

Also: throwing down a 10th-rank divine decree in a target-rich environment is very fun

[turbid dagger]

The other animist subclasses largely uh
Uh
Don't
Do much

[frank crystal]

Live footage of a 10th rank divine decree

[rustic cape]

There's "don't take this you can just get a familiar with feats," "don't take this these bonuses are both boring and situational," and "wow having two simultaneous primary apparitions would be amazing ... for a liturgist"

[frank crystal]

How viable is a non liturgist animist compared to a liturgist?

[turbid dagger]

Every time an RPG makes a subclass, featline, or similarly impactful optional rules element with the benefit of 'you get flat numerical bonuses against undead and nothing else', a puppy cries

[warped orbit]

Still fine

But Liturgist just gets very strong and useful features

[rustic cape]

A non-liturgist animist if a perfectly reasonably caster

[trail nova]

Fun combo of “boring” and “okay, but noticeably worse”

[rustic cape]

But it mostly plays like any other caster

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[turbid dagger]

Yeah it's the usual thing of the other classes not being dogshit or anything, Liturgist is just obviously the best one

[rustic cape]

Except lacking some of the big numerical bonuses a lot of casters have

[frank crystal]

Every champion oath just being bonuses against X type of creature

[trail nova]

Like the thing with Liturgist is that the action economy stuff is genuinely interesting.

[rustic cape]

And imo not overpowered by any means

It takes time and setup to reach full force

Which gives you an interesting choice

About priorities in combat

[rapid wagon]

is animist hard to play?

as far as class complexity?

[trail nova]

It’s a prepared caster with a lot of off-list access.

So while you can scrape by, it really rewards system mastery around spells.

[rapid wagon]

hmm, i do not have that

[surreal basin]

Hmmmm

Eladrin would be fun to stat out in PF2e, there’s not really a fey ancestry other than gnomes who have other shit going on

[echo briar]

Sprite

[surreal basin]

Still not really the like

Regal fae court

That is the unrepresented category here

[tight flare]

Yeah regarding my automaton build questions from yesterday.
I'm going to drop the feat that gives me flight, pick up some potions of fly instead.
Then take the feat that makes me large and refocus on enhancement feat so that I get rid of the clumsy effect from being large.
This gives me lots of range, and we already have a great source of flight from the air kineticist

[wary yoke]

https://youtu.be/shDQOi6YDo8?si=3hIPnHO20AZURDLy

This is what I will think of for slide pistols now

[rustic cape]

Long term, a good solution to flight is tattoos

[clever cobalt]

or being an Exemplar

[rustic cape]

There are many magic item solutions

[tight flare]

I can definitely afford tattoos. Am level 17 right now so

What's the flying tattoo called? o_o

Soaring Wings apparently

[rustic cape]

There's two

One gives you dragon wings, the other is soaring wings

And yeah, flight can be expensive, but not unreasonably so.

[rapid wagon]

if i want to play a Qi monk do i still want to get a stance?

or should i go hard into qi abilities from the start?

[novel merlin]

Still take a stance

[rapid wagon]

i could really go for any stance and they'll all have their applications right?

[novel merlin]

Yeah there's no "good for qi" stances outside of maybe the ones that require a ki spell to enter

[rapid wagon]

What feels right for a Grave Half Orc who will be a Qi user primarily and the party healer (using non magic healing)... Mountain Stance?

[novel merlin]

Are you trying to do str or dex monk

[rapid wagon]

hmm, i guess i havent given it much thought, dex dodges better but doesnt hit as hard right?

[warped orbit]

I would generally recommend Dex, because getting AC as a Str Monk is more difficult

You will still want both either way though

[rapid wagon]

do I need wis for anything?

noting i plan on going hard into medecine

[warped orbit]

Only for Ki spells I think, and only if they have saves

[rapid wagon]

hmm ok, so for thematic reasons i could justify going big in wis for medecine and ki stuff

thematically, since im a grave orc subvariant, im going for hte idea that the necromantic energies weakened me, so i learned to refine my ki to compensate

[warped orbit]

All the stances are generally pretty good though

Just read through and see if there's any you like particularly

[rapid wagon]

is wanting to do dragon stances, "My hands are for healing" kinda vibe

[warped orbit]

That sounds neat

[rapid wagon]

so he pulls a one piece esque kicks only

[surreal basin]

Dragon is kicking

Flavor wise

[novel merlin]

Dragon stance you'll want str>dex>wis/con

[surreal basin]

And hits like a stuck

Truck

[warped orbit]

You might want to try getting some Drakeheart Elixirs for AC with Dragon

[rapid wagon]

hmm, so if im going hi wis for character reasons, should i be looking at crane for the extra AC?

[warped orbit]

Since it means you can't cap your Dex as quickly

[novel merlin]

Mountain stance is the only way to do high strength low dex

[warped orbit]

I would probably not recommend putting Wis higher than your third stat

[frank crystal]

There’s the automaton method now with reinforced chassis

[novel merlin]

You can do dex stances and then just have lower str for lower damage

[frank crystal]

But like, that’s probably not his character

[novel merlin]

Yeah he said it was an ork

[rapid wagon]

Too unspecialized?

[frank crystal]

Yah I was just mentioning

[frank crystal]

Yah probably

[rapid wagon]

hmm ok, recommendations?

[novel merlin]

If you go dex monk you could probably get away with like 2/4/1/0/2/0

Mountain stance can be 4/1/2/0/2/0

[frank crystal]

Honestly so long as you get Drakehearts dragon is viable at 4/1 as well

Obviously your AC won’t be perfect but it’s more important your hit bonus is good

[novel merlin]

Mountain stance dex cap goes up to 1 at level 6 then 2 at 14 anyways

[rapid wagon]

?

[novel merlin]

That works for any dex stance yeah

[rapid wagon]

Hmm, so I'm going heavy into medical stuff and healing, then gonna focus on Qi stuff to be a Qi monk, and taking dragon stance

that all seem pretty doable?

[novel merlin]

Dragon stance with 2 strength is gonna be painful

[warped orbit]

Probably don't take Dragon if you go max Dex

[rapid wagon]

hmm, well its not essential, and I'm not married to it, but it felt cool thematically, of a character focused on kicks as a doctor

[warped orbit]

It doesn't have finesse

[rapid wagon]

i guess i can flavor something else

as kicks

[novel merlin]

You can just do kicks in another stance

[warped orbit]

You can still flavor a different stance yeah

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, all stance unarmed attacks can be made with all parts of the body
If you've ever seen someone grouse here about how the best monk holds a shield in one hand and a potion in the other, that's why

[rapid wagon]

ah thats ok, im not trying to make the best monk, just trying to make one that will pull its weight while staying true to the themes i wanna push

completely happy to compromise on optimization or whatever for themes

[turbid dagger]

Oh yeah don't worry

I was not suggesting you do that

In fact I implore you not too

[novel merlin]

Attacking with a +2 stat is less of an optimization compromise and more of just being largely unable to hit anything higher level than you

[turbid dagger]

It's just
You can kick just fine with any stance

[frank crystal]

Ram stance is the strongest stance because you can use your feet for holding stuff too if you’re really dedicated and just headbutt people

[rapid wagon]

yeah im looking at reflective ripple stance, to kind be in line with the idea that I'm dealing with the consequences of a necromantic event that failed to kill me with like inner mastery or what have you

and go hard on Ki

[novel merlin]

Ki doesn't require much stat investment unless you pick up the ones that require a save

Of which there are like 1-2 and they're meh

Ki blast is an OK way to get aoe damage if you really need it but otherwise it's not doing much

[frank crystal]

Which ones do anyway?

[turbid dagger]

I want to make a rushing goat stance monk one of these days that's more like bajiquan
Momentous Charge is just

.....That's not a gif when I paste it huh

One moment

[frank crystal]

Kinda just looks like Yun is about to break it down

[warped orbit]

Ki Rush and Ki Strike are generally the most useful Ki spells anyway

since they just let you do the thing you normally do, but better

[rapid wagon]

is Inner Upheaval worth? Seems like a nice damage boost

I'm not seeign al ot of ways to get more focus tho

[novel merlin]

Ki blast, wronged monks wrath, touch of death

[warped orbit]

oh I see it got renamed in the remaster

[frank crystal]

Also I did have an idea for a bull stance that’s like that, focus on powerful straight punches

[warped orbit]

yes definitely

that's what used to be Ki Strike

[rapid wagon]

ahh ok

[frank crystal]

But then I stopped when I realized Ram was my exact idea mechanically

[rapid wagon]

so ill keep that

[frank crystal]

Being a pushing focused stance

[warped orbit]

and it's basically just "free" damage and attack bonus

[novel merlin]

You get 1 focus point for every spell you have up to 3

[turbid dagger]

https://tenor.com/ikkPKCGcNgY.gif okay here

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[warped orbit]

Inner Upheaval and Qi Rush is what they are now

[novel merlin]

Oh and shadow's web

[rapid wagon]

hmm ok so i wanna get all the Ki spells early if i wanna have a generous pool of focus

and i only ever go up to 3

[warped orbit]

it helps to have multiple uses

[rapid wagon]

is it worth getting Qi Spells as a class feat twice?

[frank crystal]

What stat does monk’s base class DC go based off?

[novel merlin]

Rush and inner upheaval are both good

[novel merlin]

Wis

[warped orbit]

can also consider going into Student of Perfection if you want more Ki Spells

[frank crystal]

I thought that was just for it’s focus spells

[novel merlin]

You can have 3 focus points by level 4 (but you won't have a stance)

[rapid wagon]

hmm, might need to talk to GM about that, Student of Perfection is region specific isnt it? I guess maybe even if I was or am a student of perfection maybe id be in Geb to deal with complications from this necromantic situation

in the place on golarion most knowledgeable about necromantic magic

[warped orbit]

Jalmeray is like, close-ish

so it's not too unlikely

[novel merlin]

Oh yeah it's str or dex

[rapid wagon]

oh is that where the monastery is?

[warped orbit]

assuming you don't just waive that requirement

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

[rapid wagon]

We have a base rule of "Pretty permissive, but ask about anything thats uncommon or rarer or region specific before taking it"

and they might ask me to put some thought into justifying it, even if its a weak justification

[warped orbit]

I mainly mention Student because it has a few nice Ki spells of its own as well depending on which school you pick

[rapid wagon]

yeah no, i like it too

[frank crystal]

Hmm, man incapacitation makes so many abilities so much lamer once you realize it has it

[warped orbit]

and also gets you Ki Strike/Inner Upheaval as part of the dedication

[rapid wagon]

just would need to think a bit on how suc ha student has ended up in geb and maybe becomes a contender for the rank of blood lord

[frank crystal]

I understand it’s kinda necessary for some stuff

But like, god some of these seem really unnecessary

[frank crystal]

Getting that for free is really nice

The worst part of inner upheaval is that it’s level 1

So it’s competing with your stance

So otherwise you kinda just need to wait until a level you don’t care about to get it

[rapid wagon]

i do have the benefit of making this character at level 5

to replace a character that died

||To a hag's living house||

[frank crystal]

Oof

Rough way to go

[rapid wagon]

oh hmm, interesting pathbuilder doesn't know that Ki strike and Inner Upheaval are the same thing

so i could have both, which would be pointless xD

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s true of a lot of things that were renamed for the remaster

[warped orbit]

it does yes
especially all the ones that have their big effect only on crit fail

[frank crystal]

Seriously why does Solar detonation have incap

Blinded isn’t even that bad in this game!

And dazzled is barely anything!

[novel merlin]

Blinded is pretty bad

[frank crystal]

Ok yah it’s bad but like, it’s only on a critical fail and there’s way worse conditions in this game

[warped orbit]

the evil and intimidating Phantasmal Doorknob appears

[rapid wagon]

So... not knowing a lot about the House of Perfection, how unlikely is it for someone who has learned there to be abroad for some reason or to not continue their training?

[novel merlin]

Blinded is like perma flat foot and dc11 flat check minimum to hit anything

[frank crystal]

Oh yah undetected does mean that

Ok it’s pretty bad

[warped orbit]

also everything is difficult terrain when blinded

[frank crystal]

But like, god I wish I could just make it so the blinded or dazzled only lasted for a round

[rapid wagon]

hows this look? https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1115450

[frank crystal]

Or maybe blind for a round and dazzled for a minute

And remove incap from it

[rapid wagon]

note i havent picked any gear

[warped orbit]

which by extension also means they can't Step

[frank crystal]

It’s like so close to being good

But incap just ruins it

And makes it so I never take it over a different fire AOE

[novel merlin]

It's still good against anything your level or lower

[frank crystal]

Which fire has plenty of

[frank crystal]

When I only have access to so many impulses, I do have to become really picky though

Like yah I could take it and just use it against lower level stuff

Or I could just take blazing wave which works against everything

[novel merlin]

Sometimes it's nice to have a spell that thrashes weaker creatures

Makes it easy to clear adds

[rapid wagon]

Hmm, ok so...
Grave Orc originally from Belkzen, travelled as a child wit hadoptive parents all the way to Kelesh, as a teenager he went to the Houses of Perfection and failed to get in, joined in one of the lesser houses to train in Jalmeray. During a short adventure with some others, messed with some creatures that has necromantic powers that nearly killed him. He ultimately survived (Thus how he's a Grave Orc), and uses his monk training to manage the other side effects of the necromantic energy. His master sent him to Geb to seek a resolution for his ailment, he ends up working for the reainmators guild while they look into his condition.

all that seem...

plausible?

has a wealth of non magical medical knowledge due to his martial and ki training

figure this way, the Blood Lord in the campaign can easily hand me off to the party

and boom, easy connect into their group

now to try and pick all my items

conveniently the party already has a set of handwraps of mighty blows +1 in their loot chest

im probably going to make them foot/shin wraps for flavor purposes

[plucky snow]

I did theorycraft a Strength + Staff Acrobat monk but it needs multiple feats to work at all

[plucky snow]

Sounds like a rad backstory to me

[rapid wagon]

I mentally imagine this prospective monk's fighting style is sort of an Orcy Taekwondo or Thai boxing but just the kicks; like a "My forearms are shields, my feet are my sword, and my hands are for healing" kinda vibe

mechanically im going for reflective ripple

it was between that and crane

the bonus AC from crane seems real nice, but reflective ripple feels like "here have all these tags, also be better at atheltic stuff"

[trim bluff]

Finished second pathfinder session
Current conclusion about this character: really fun
Shes bad in combat. Decent ac for a caster at 18, but low hp, also at 18, at level 3. Cure wounds is good, but weapon attacks are awful, inflict wounds is hard to get off, entropic shield is a defensive spell, bane is a fear effect and therefore doesnt effect a lot of pretty common monsters. However, she is a complete god in utility, 16 int, 15 wis and cha. Comprehend languages, read magic, guidance, detect magic, purify food and drink, create water, knows celestial, 4 different knowledges, craft (woodworker), a super magical multi-tool that can act as any masterwork tool, high perception, multiple other decent skills. The best part is no one else in the party is anything like this. Sure, they can kill stuff good, but they get to a puzzle room, or need to understand a rune, or need something to eat, im the one guy in the group for all of that. Its so fun lmao

[fossil dome]

Cleric?

[trim bluff]

Oracle

[fossil dome]

Ah, I see

Utility caster is very fun

[frank crystal]

What’s the magic school AP?

[turbid dagger]

Strength Of Thousands!

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[rapid wagon]

can I use Risky Surgey combined with Assurance in Medicine to guarantee crit successes for lower level skill checks in medecine to treat wounds?

[frank crystal]

Yes!

It’s one of the big benefits of medicine assurance

Other then it being generally useful for small patch jobs

[rapid wagon]

oh interesting, Ki Strike from Student of Perfection has the verbal tag. Inner Upheaval doesn't

Would it be fair to say that I'm supposed to get Inner Upheaval and no Ki Strike thanks to the remaster?

[frank crystal]

Yah probably

Also, this is such a weird request, is there any way to do the like, in the rain hopping off of rain drops

Also question, for qi spells do you get both inner upheaval and qi rush, or do you have to choose between the 3 options?

[rapid wagon]

you get 2 options initially

between qi rush and inner upheaval

[frank crystal]

Question about student of perfection, do you have to stick with the element you choose or can you swap between each feat?

[rapid wagon]

when you take the class feat Qi Spells

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[rapid wagon]

Looking at the dedication feat, I didn't have to choose an element

[frank crystal]

So then yah I’ll probably grab qi stride and then grab inner upheaval via the archetype

[frank crystal]

Hmm alright

[rapid wagon]

looking at the archetype, it looks like you get ki strike, you don't get to pick, but the Qi Spell class feat lets you pick

So you get inner upheaval/Ki strike for free

and then can pick qi rush

[frank crystal]

So then yah I definitely don’t wanna get the one I’ll get via the archetype

[rapid wagon]

Anyone have generalized reccs for monk items at level 5? Obviously handwraps of mighty blows

[frank crystal]

If you’re ever in water a helmsman’s recourse may be useful

[rapid wagon]

im gonna be around a LOT of undead and such, beign in a blood lords campaign

[frank crystal]

Then probably not a helmsman’s recourse

[frank crystal]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=905

This seems really generally good

Free better shield spell effectively

Albeit once per day

[rapid wagon]

that one might be very hard to convince my gm to allow, being Rare, Qadiran in origin and Sarenrite associated while im in Geb

[rustic cape]

You should probably grab one with a strong passive, fwiw

Crane, Tiger, and Stumbling all have good stuff iirc?

[rapid wagon]

currently im going with reflective ripple, crane was the alt i was looking at

[rustic cape]

Unrelated: hmmmmm custom mixed heritage sprite/automaton seems very funny

Tiny robot

[frank crystal]

Hmm, for a dragonblood flaming embers monk what’s a good base ancestry?

Rn I’m thinking like, orc but I have a lot of other ideas

I’m definitely taking dragon scales level 1 because str monk but I still need something else

[frank crystal]

Hmm, could go elf for the extra speed bonus

That +fleet on a monk stance that gives you extra speed baseline sounds

Very fun

[rustic cape]

Elf is a very strong chassis

Centaur is weirdly good even if the feats mostly suck

[frank crystal]

Admittedly, centaur doesn’t really fit this characters vibe you know?

I can’t really do what I want for him unless he’s a biped

[rustic cape]

Oh yeah it rarely does tbh

[frank crystal]

Centaurs really are an ancestry who are kinda, vibe defining

You sorta need to build your character around having a horse body

[rapid wagon]

i dont think orc was like... the best chassis for me, but it kinda fits Gebs vibe to play a Grave Orc

I figure I'll end up a skeleton or ghoul when I die. Ghoul healer is a bit funny

[echo briar]

What oceans produce hurricanes, which ones produce typhoons, and which ones produce cyclones?

Because IRL the only difference is what ocean they are from

[frank crystal]

Chatroom, what’s the best way to make a creature who’s a vampire lord with a divine dragon grafted to them?

[turbid dagger]

My first instinct is to take one of the dragon statblocks, apply the vampire template of your choice, and change its size to fit how big this mutant is supposed to be

As it's easier in the existing rules to vampire-ify a dragon than it is to dragon-ize a vampire

[frank crystal]

That is true yah

Vampire is a template and dragon is not

Making a vampire dragon is a lot easier then a dragon vampire

Oh also before I forget, would it be fine if a barb subclass gives negative healing?

I’m thinking of maybe porting some of my old 5e homebrew into PF2E and one of those is a bard subclass that’s meant to be like, a drowned sailor who’s body forgot they died

So they’re partially undead

[warped orbit]

Soothe is already not Vitality

and I don't remember if the Bard focus spell that heals has it

[frank crystal]

Oh sorry typo

I meant barb

[warped orbit]

oh Barbarian

I mean, it's definitely fine balance wise

[turbid dagger]

Negative healing is largely a sidegrade, in that it makes a lot of player facing healing not work on you, while making a lot of NPC-side damage also bounce off
So I'd say that's fine

[warped orbit]

though negative healing is generally a sort of finnicky thing, unless the whole party is aligned with it

[turbid dagger]

The enemy that does vitality is few and far between

[frank crystal]

Alright, I just wanted to make sure it wouldn’t cause any unintended issues

[warped orbit]

nothing unexpected really

[frank crystal]

That’s true but I feel like that’d just make it fall under most negative healing options where the party does kinda just have to plan around it

[rustic cape]

Negative healing is strictly an upgrade if you have easy access to non-vitality healing

[warped orbit]

anyone can already get negative healing via Dhampir or undead archetypes

[rustic cape]

animist

[warped orbit]

not strictly, if you have someone using 3a Heal

the biggest thing negative healing does is it functionally makes you immune to stuff like shadows and other incorporeal undead

[rustic cape]

It makes you immune to a lot of stuff

[warped orbit]

in exchange for being much more annoying to heal by most player facing things

[rustic cape]

There's a lot of void effects

[frank crystal]

I’d say being actively harmed by 3 action heals, or AOE heals in general, is a pretty big downside though

Especially since it affects fights with all creatures

And not just ones with void effects

[rustic cape]

More of an issue for a frontliner

[warped orbit]

yes, hence why I said it works much better when the whole party is oriented around it

[rustic cape]

Animist is particularly nice because you get a sustained AoE heal that works on everybody

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, for example Abomination Vaults sort of
Falls apart
If you have even one or two negative healing PCs

[rustic cape]

And if you grab embodiment of balance you get heal and harm as signature spells

[frank crystal]

Does abomination vaults warn you about that?

[warped orbit]

the funniest bit is that this happens a lot in Blood Lords

the undead AP

that also explicitly gives anyone who doesn't already have it negative healing at the end of book 1

[rustic cape]

Also, even for frontliners, being able to stand around and get pelted with AoE void spells from your party can be a pretty big deal

[warped orbit]

the Garden focus spell being non vitality is nice yeah

[rustic cape]

It's tragic how massacre is kind of bad to be tbh

[turbid dagger]

Abomination Vaults was released before undead PCs existed!
Which explains a lot!

[frank crystal]

oh

[rustic cape]

It's a great spell for NPCs to use on the party

Not so great a use for a 9th level PC spell slot

[warped orbit]

What's it do?

[frank crystal]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1596&Redirected=1

[rustic cape]

It doesn't work on anything 17th level or above

[warped orbit]

Ah right

[frank crystal]

Effectively AOE massive void damage or instant death, for 17th level or below

I will say

This spell goes extremely hard for a “villain destroy a village” scene

Like

Seriously this feels made for that

[rustic cape]

Oh yeah, PF2e has a lot of effects that seem to diegetically cover "obliterate an army"

[warped orbit]

Right I forgot it even does backlash damage to you

[rustic cape]

Unless you have void healing

:D

[warped orbit]

Hmm
True

[rustic cape]

I got really excited about going ghoul with my animist and then I realized massacre only works on things below level 18

There were other reasons to be excited, mind

But

Tragic

You know what's really good for "destroy an entire city"

The cranial explosion effect that psychics can do

[warped orbit]

Haha yeah

Though people won't always be packed sufficiently dense for that 😛

[frank crystal]

Just head pop people

[rustic cape]

Genuinely possible to obliterate an entire population center with that one

[frank crystal]

Psychics are perfect for destroying New York City

[rustic cape]

This is the secret win condition for agents of edgewatch — throw up your hands and eradicate everyone

"None of you are without sin"

(It's a win condition because after doing it you don't have to keep playing agents of edgewatch >_>)

[ocean cobalt]

way crazier because the evil overlord isn't even directly killing people with magic they're killing people as collateral of killing one person with magic

cranial explosion is some baki the grappler shit

[frank crystal]

Is agents bad?

[rustic cape]

Yes

[frank crystal]

How bad?

[rustic cape]

Let me put it this way: in Agents of Edgewatch you play a cop, and the AP essentially requires you to do corrupt cop shit, but it doesn't think this is a bad thing

[frank crystal]

oh no

[rustic cape]

It reads like parody, but it isn't

For instance

Since you can't loot the people you kill, you have to get your funds by issuing tickets

[ocean cobalt]

2020 release btw

[frank crystal]

Jesus Christ

Can’t you just like, get paid by your employer?

Also wait why can’t you loot bodies?

[rustic cape]

"But Paizo," you say, "doesn't adding literal summons quotas to the cop AP encourage replication of one of the nastiest mistakes in modern policing? Wouldn't it make more sense to just have a level-based uniform allowance, since uniform allowances are a real thing anyway?"

"Hahahaha tickets go brrrrr"

[frank crystal]

What’s the worst thing the players are expected to do?

[rustic cape]

Couldn't speak to it exhaustively, but there's an occasion where you have the opportunity to be strikebreakers

[frank crystal]

Jesus fucking Christ

Your chance to play a strikebreaker in pathfinder

[frank crystal]

Is it just like, against agent policy?

[rustic cape]

You don’t kill people

Magic anti-lethal damage wards

[warped orbit]

I think it does expect you to loot stuff too?

but yeah it's... not great

[rustic cape]

In fairness I believe you can also choose to support the strikers

But like

[warped orbit]

Edgewatch is also somewhat a victim of being a six book AP for a premise that's not really that high level

[rustic cape]

Damning with faint praise

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

[warped orbit]

yeah it basically gives you non lethal on all your stuff

[frank crystal]

That’s more books then strength of thousand I think

[warped orbit]

SoT is also six book

[frank crystal]

Oh

[warped orbit]

I think

[rustic cape]

It is

[warped orbit]

basically if it goes 1-20 it's six books

[rustic cape]

But SoT notably earns it

[warped orbit]

yeah

[rustic cape]

You hang out with fuckin’ ||Jatembe|| of all people

[frank crystal]

Yah, that sounds more important then being a magic cop

[warped orbit]

SoT also has a more natural progression of you start as students and then later become teachers yourself

whereas I don't know if in Edgewatch you really change positions narratively?

[rustic cape]

When my the GM had my animist’s “mentor” Baba Yaga show up at the big party towards the end of SoT, it actually made perfect sense, because her pal is literally there giving out the awards

[frank crystal]

Yah the AP involves the literal 1 person Baba Yaga respects

[rustic cape]

(My PC rolled a natural 20 with a +35 on religion to impress her, got a clap, and collapsed due to stress)

[frank crystal]

Just speaking to baba yaga is that hard?

[frank crystal]

Also hmm, for this idea I think I will go for the whole, give a dragon vampire template

But I think I’m also gonna give it some of the more normal vampire traits

Stuff like innate dominate and the various forms

Make it feel more like a normal vampire with dragon stuff

[light gyro]

trying to impress her academically should be

[frank crystal]

True

[rustic cape]

When Ignacja was ten years old, she strode out of her village to the Witch's house in the forest and demanded to be taught magic. The Witch, bemused, agreed to take her as an apprentice on one condition: Ignacja would abandon her life up to that moment and serve her without question. The young girl agreed.

For the next ten years, Ignacja lived with the Witch, who she called by command Grandmother, in her chicken-legged "hut", if it could truly be called that. She swept and mopped the floors of its many rooms, gathered and chopped firewood in the snow-covered forests where she invariably found herself upon leaving it, and brewed an unbelievable amount of tea. Just, really, so much tea. People wonder why the Witch's teeth are sort of yellow-green -- it's the tea. She washed the witch's endless dishes, though she never saw the same dish twice. She stirred the witch's cauldron, for hours at a time, to no end she understood. She cooked meals, thrice a day, for ten years. She saw to the Witch's guests, monsters and demons the likes of which she had never imagined, ever demure, ever polite in the face of their provocations, and the Witch's laughter.

And what did she learn? She learned to sweep and to mop and to chop firewood in the cold and brew tea and wash dishes and stir a cauldron and cook meals and keep her head bowed no matter what terrible thing was said to her. She was certain that if she did otherwise, if she did anything the Witch did not ask of her, she would be dead in an instant, and the Witch would drink the marrow from her bones. Perhaps it was a punishment, she contemplated sometimes, for daring to want knowledge, for daring to make demands of the Witch. A punishment that she was certain, for a long time, would never end.

But there was one other thing she found, there in the Witch's house. There were voices in that place, voices that the Witch did not hear or else ignored, and they spoke to Ignacja and told her of the world: of streams and mountains, flames and forests, the mighty and they wretched. Every year they spoke louder, and though at first Ignacja thought herself mad, in time she came to listen to the voices, her only companion in that place save the Witch. The more she listened, the more they spoke. And one day, when the Witch was out and the hut was so cold that as she stood before the fireplace her fingers fumbled with the flint and steel, Ignacja spoke back, a simple request: help me light the fire.

And the voices obliged.

She told the Witch nothing. She was certain she would be punished for whatever she had done. But in still moments, on days when the Witch and her guests were absent, when quiet ruled the house, Ignacja asked for the voices to aid her, in small ways. More often than not, they answered. She learned to sort the voices out, to hear the voice of fire and the voice of shadow and the voice of growing things, and to call on each in turn for what they were best suited. They were not simply voices, Ignacja realized, but spirits of the world itself; the place she had been so long denied, it seemed, not even the Witch's power could not deny in turn. And though she kept her eyes low and said only, "yes Grandmother," or "right away Grandmother" when the Witch spoke to her with a command, her confidence slowly grew, and she turned to the spirits more readily each time than the last.

It was when she was stoking the fire that the Witch revealed herself, in the full of her power, wrapped in icy winds and howling fury, and bowled over Ignacja and looked down at her with hatred and suspicion in her eyes. Then the storm she had brought inside the hut settled, and she laughed her cruel laugh, and told Ignacja there was no more she could teach her. The Witch told her that she would go South, to the Magaambya, and there she would seek further tutoring. She would do all this, after she swept and mopped the Witch's house once more and made her tea and one more meal. These things Ignacja did, and then the Witch gave her an empty satchel and a worn pair of boots and and sent her on her way.

Ignacja has a lot of Baba Yaga related trauma

[frank crystal]

Man, this is so good

I do really hope to play a proper campaign with y’all eventually, every glimpse I see of your guys games and characters are all so good

[rustic cape]

Also to be clear she’s Polish

Lady just fuckin’ isekai’d her

[frank crystal]

Oh like, earth polish

[rustic cape]

Without telling her

[frank crystal]

Not based off Poland

So she’s fully unaware of anything of Golarion

[rustic cape]

She knew the language and bits and bobs from the guests

But yeah, she walked into the hut in Poland

And she walked out in fuckin’ Evil Fantasy Russia

[frank crystal]

Like the Golarion nation that’s a Russian equivalent

Not, actual irl Russia

[rustic cape]

Yep

Baba Yaga can have a transdimensional hut door

As a treat

[frank crystal]

She would

[rustic cape]

She once made Ignacja massage a demon lord's feet

Still gives her nightmares

[frank crystal]

What the fuck

Why?

[rustic cape]

Because he was her guest and Ignacja was her slave maid

Baba Yaga is not a nice person!

[frank crystal]

Yah that does seem obvious from this

Why did she even call her at the end?

[surreal basin]

Gmmm

What should I do for what heaven would consider a “pest problem”

[rustic cape]

This is a pest problem in Heaven, tbc?

[surreal basin]

My players are level 16 and are gonna have to sort out a pest problem

Yes

They are sorting out pests as a way to fast track access to an angelic judge

[rustic cape]

If you want to get funny with it

Make it rats

Except the rats are like

Biblically Accurate Rats

And no one tells the PCs this beforehand

[surreal basin]

Lmao

[rustic cape]

So here are the PCs fighting a 10-legged rat the size of a linnorm that spews flaming chariot wheel rats every time it opens its mouth

Like "WHAT THE FUCK"

"We told you there were rats."

"THOSE WEREN'T RATS"

"Are rats not like that in the Universe? Weird."

[light gyro]

if you want something in-setting then the rats could be Qlippoth

[rustic cape]

Also some of the rats need to be in flaming chariot wheels

Like a mouse wheel

Except there's a rat the size of a german shepherd in a flaming chariot wheel

A friend suggests a talking snake infestation

Real problem in Heaven

[surreal basin]

Lmao

Good ideas

[solar thorn]

I'm planning on making a steel macahutli to serve as the favored weapon of the local culture in my game. What do you think would be a good statline for it as a martial weapon? 1d8, versatile S/B?

[warped orbit]

base it on the leiomano IMO

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=166

1d6 B, Versatile S, Deadly d10

d8 B with Versatile S would also be fine I think

though it would be a very good onehanded weapon

[echo briar]

Or based it on the clockwork version and remove forceful

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=227

[echo briar]

I wouldn’t do that, because then it’s just an objectively worse leiomano

You could do some more unique. There is only 2 tactical reasons to use a macuahuitl instead of a normal sword. Either you don’t have metal (obviously not applicable) or you want it to break inside the target.

You might be able to get away with making it like 1d8, fatal d12, gain a +1 item penalty to attacks on a crit

[solar thorn]

hmmm, that could be fun!

[turbid dagger]

I will note that the macuahuitl is in the game come WoI

[warped orbit]

?
that's literally the statline it has

[echo briar]

leiomano has fatal

Not deadly

[warped orbit]

oh huh

apparently when they reprinted it they changed Deadly to Fatal

I didn't see that

[rustic cape]

B/S is unquestionably the best combination

[warped orbit]

It is yes

[desert vale]

Ooh pathfinder

[eager mountain]

wahttps://bsky.app/profile/coksi.bsky.social/post/3lom7jafrei2f

Coksi 🌱 (@coksi.bsky.social)

When the Starfinder 2e lore changes directly affect your character amirite

For context: Alandria‘s evil god Zon-Kuthon fused with his sister, forming a new god, and is no longer evil

#oc #comic #originalcharacter #starfinder #alandria #art

Likes

206

Bluesky · May 7, 2025, 8:13 PM

[frank crystal]

Don’t you hate it when your evil god turns good but you’re still in it for the evil?

[rapid wagon]

When it comes to undead traits saying stabilize doesn't work on me, is that referenced to Stabilize the spell AND stabilize the non magical action?

Or could someone stabilize me with a healing kit, stabilize action, and stitch flesh?

[echo briar]

Just the cantrip

First aid doesn’t even require stitch flesh

It never mentions a living creature, unlike treat wounds

[scenic patio]

Hopefully this doesn’t come off as rude, but that’s kinda lame in my opinion :/

[echo briar]

The lore development or the comic?

[scenic patio]

The lore development, the comic is funny 😆

[warped orbit]

Well we knew Zon-Shelyn was a thing in SF2 for a while

Just not the details

[surreal basin]

I mean it’s kinda a payoff

Shelyn trying to redeem her brother has been a whole thing the entire lifespan of the game
And then this is kinda like a halfway point of that

[limber comet]

Yeah

Also if you're worried about losing an "evil" god

Like, there's SO many

So, SO many baddies

[desert vale]

Hmm. Jerk behavior radiates downwards from a god

[scenic patio]

Yeah but he was like ironically evil I hope the devs do end up making more ironic villains deities.

[desert vale]

...need to look up more lore

[light gyro]

archive of nethys accidentally set a creature's level to 83 - someone fixed the stat block to be consistent
https://old.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1kkon1t/i_fixed_the_stats_of_the_bristle_boar/

[desert vale]

Rovagug stats

[light gyro]

Rovahog....

[echo briar]

If I wanted to add a spontaneous caster to the beginner box, should I swap out the wizard or the cleric?

[warped orbit]

Swap Wizard with a Sorc IMO

[rustic cape]

Primal sorc of some kind feels really good and easy

[warped orbit]

I'd say either Elemental Sorc or Imperial

[rustic cape]

primal is the best spell list, it has heal and fireball

[echo briar]

primal is missing too many truly incredible higher level spells.

[rustic cape]

Upcast fireball XD

[frank crystal]

Hmm, what’s a good background for a like, low level thug/yakuza guy

Think like, Yakuza generic enemy dude

Rn all I’ve got is criminal

[turbid dagger]

Criminal or Bandit, yeah

[frank crystal]

Second, what are students of perfection lore wise?

[craggy thunder]

Students at one of the Houses of Perfection (semi-elemental focused martial arts schools) in Jalmeray

[frank crystal]

what are they like?

[craggy thunder]

uuuuuuuhhh

I don't know precisely