Pathfinder

[heavy fulcrum]

im never sure if its that one or another with a similar concept

[thorny berry]

didn't that setting also have america as a weird like

Roman empire X.0 (and boy howdy I am not wading into what number would be appropriate there)

[plucky snow]

I'm late but that's how 7th fleet plays Battlegroup and NSF

[solar storm]

Battlegroup is a funky one

Though I think the amount of sitrep stuff is a lot lower

[frank crystal]

I remember one on the lancer subreddit that was complaining that RAW, the reload action reloaded the whole universe and not the PC who used the action

[surreal basin]

What

[frank crystal]

Yah

They said because it doesn’t specify it’s the player who reloads

It must be assumed everyone reloads everywhere

[warped orbit]

it's the Raleigh

and it is technically a valid point
it just says it reloads all loading weapons

[surreal basin]

lol

I appreciate that Tom wouldn’t even dignify that with a fix lol

[rough anvil]

I retired my gunslinger and I’m bringing in a new kineticist character for my game tonight

Kineticists are hard to build. There’s just infinite options at every decision point

[plucky snow]

I remember a rule that multiple circumstance bonuses don't stack. Is that correct?

[rough anvil]

That is correct

[plucky snow]

Follow up regarding the orc necksplitter: am I right that the Sweep tag doesn't do anything, because Forceful provides the same circumstance bonus or better?

[rough anvil]

Forceful gives a circumstance bonus to damage, not the to-hit roll

Sweep gives a bonus to the attack roll

[plucky snow]

Oh! I missed that
Thanks

[rough anvil]

Np np!

Weapon tags are hard to remember

[plucky snow]

Second follow up question: what are some good ways to reduce the multiple attack penalty

[rough anvil]

There aren’t all that many; in general the MAP is a central piece of balance and it’s hard to cheat it. There are some abilities like Double Slice, and using an agile weapon helps

What class are you thinking about?

[plucky snow]

An Orc Magus with a necksplitter

[rough anvil]

Ooh that’s an interesting one

I am hardly an expert on the Magus but my understanding is that they prefer to make one big Spellstrike on their turn, so you definitely don’t need to be making multiple strikes

I think you could look at taking a multiclass dedication for feats like Swipe?

But that’s just off the top of my head, maybe there’s a sweet combo other people know about to make it work

Oh! Also the Spell Swipe feat. It does exactly what you’re looking for

[surreal basin]

Yeah spell swipe is what that would be good for

Magus doesn’t ever get a way to cheat map tho

[limber comet]

Probably because Spellstrike is like lighting a bomb in the enemy's face

It can do

SO MUCH damage

[turbid dagger]

Spellstrikes are indeed Fight Defining Actions ime
More than once have I been in a situation where everyoe was obviously wordlessly thinking 'man we are doomed' until the magus hit that 20

[trim grotto]

late to the party but this rules

[fast hill]

thank you!

[trim grotto]

like straight up call that campaign THE LICH KING MUST DIE and you're cooking

[fast hill]

Been absolutely cooking with the premise, just need an opening in my regular playgroup

[trim grotto]

hell yeah

[fast hill]

Had an idea for a coven of witches who would usually be villains to a regular adventuring group be alligned with the PCs because the Lich King is overindustrializing and cutting into their bottom line (being spiteful witches who trick people into shitty deals)

Like ultimately an overbearing totalitarian state does not leave room for u to go out into the woods and ask a witch to save your child (they turn it into a horrifying monstrosity, but it is still alive!)

[rustic cape]

I always feel uncertain of what to do for Free Archetype with a spellcaster

[warped orbit]

one good thing to do is ironically other spellcasters

mainly to open up scroll/wand access

[rustic cape]

True

And sentinel, I suppose

Anything stand out for bard?

[warped orbit]

Champion/Sentinel for armor prof, Captivator for extra innate spells, other casters to poach specific spells, Psychic for the amps and cantrips
Medic, Alchemist
Marshal is an option, but needs you to get fairly close

[thorny berry]

spellcasting dc still isn't considered to be class dc right, there's a small handful of somewhat unique archetypes that key off that but I guess it's not relevant

beastmaster's a classic

[solar storm]

Rogue is often a good generic option

[thorny berry]

or, honestly: archer or something, if you take bespell weapon or similar the occasional cheeky third-action attack ain't bad (though of course most people prefer staves unless you're generally having short adventuring days)

geomancer or whatever it's called gives you some very minor spell riders iirc

[rustic cape]

How does Captivator work in light of the lack of spell schools?

[thorny berry]

rip

I still really liked the captivator/skysage concept of school-focused archetypes and was excited to have the cycle completed

time mage is decent

[warped orbit]

The answer is shrug unfortunately

It doesn't really

I'd probably just let it pick mental spells

Which is sad though, I did also really like Captivator

[surreal basin]

Mental and illusion probably

[clever cobalt]

I like the heart shades

[heavy fulcrum]

"peace and love through all the universe!" shoots you in the kneecaps

[echo briar]

what would be simpler for a new player with option paralysis, kineticist or thaumaturge?

[upbeat ridge]

def not kineticst tbh

[surreal basin]

Yeah thaum

[rapid wagon]

I forget, does pf2 have a meteor hammer?

[limber comet]

Yes, it's in Treasure Vault

[rapid wagon]

Nice, I think I'll go for it if I make a monk one of these days, saw some videos about them/ with them, they're pretty cool

Oh huh, it's legacy content

[surreal basin]

You can still use it

Anything that hasn’t been reprinted is legacy

[eager mountain]

ye

[eager mountain]

you can still use legacy content

[rapid wagon]

Ah OK cool, it wasn't showing up in pathbuilder is why I was confused

[solar storm]

Is this in combat choice paralysis or when leveling up choice paralysis? If the former Kineticist, if the latter, Thaum imo

[rustic cape]

Neither of those are exactly short on either of those types of choice paralysis, though

[rapid wagon]

I found kineticist was incredibly simple to play, almost mirroring my dnd experience with Warlock.

But you have to choose between a bunch of elements and even element combos, which is a lot of options. Then again if you just choose your element based on vibes, it's nice and quick

[rustic cape]

It is also possible to build a kineticist who has a bunch of different stuff to do in combat

It's a bit of a toolbox class

[eager mountain]

what kind of character are you wanting to play ?

[echo briar]

Not me, a new player. And they have no clue

[eager mountain]

oh ok, always hard when the new layers dont really have a character in mind that they wanna play

Or like a concept

but fair I supose

I guess ask them if theyd rather know stuff and be able to like give things weaknesses and also use tools

OR if they wanna do cool elemental attacks

[rapid wagon]

It's definitely a sort of... "give me an idea or two of vague character concepts that interest you" I think, rather than a option a or option b situation

End of the day you can help them with choices on the build side

[eager mountain]

ye

[upbeat ridge]

Does anyone else feel that class archetypes shouldn’t interfere with FA?

Like, to me class archetypes (the ones that are class exclusive at least) are like a more involved subclass, where those archetype feats are basically subclass exclusive feats

If I was dming a game with FA, I would probably rule that class archetype feats can only go in class slots, but waive the “two feats from this dedication” requirement on the class archetype, and let the player take an actual archetype in the FA slots. This would preserve the design conceits/opportunity cost of both class archetypes and FA, and wouldn’t be too strong imo?

[rapid wagon]

fa?

[silver geyser]

Free Archetype?

[rough anvil]

There should be an option to turn on legacy content in pathbuilder

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah

[frank crystal]

Do we have any ancestries that could be shark people?

[vocal ember]

I know merfolk have a shark heritage. And ofc there's beastkin and awakened animal.

[turbid dagger]

I dont think anyone will complain if you use Athamaru also

[frank crystal]

ok

[worthy stump]

Azarketi could prolly work too

[limber comet]

I'm also pretty certain there's at least 1 homebrew shark ancestry out there

[fossil temple]

Hello, how is everyone

[clever cobalt]

Hewwo

[fossil temple]

Me and my brother were theory crafting and i wanted your guys opinion
What would be the best class for a trap focused character?And would it even be fun?

[rustic cape]

Rogue seems like at least a good bet

[plucky snow]

It seems like it would be hard to use traps in a combat situation

[warped orbit]

Anyone with the Snarecrafter archetype

[rustic cape]

But yeah the answer is snarecrafter

I like rogue with it for the skills and because rogues are generally sick

[fossil temple]

Ah yes, but which core class would be best with?
I think rogue in the end, i was thinking ranger

[warped orbit]

Both of those work

[fossil temple]

Time for
Character crafting then!

Kobold as base too because theyh ahve a lot of perks for snares right?

[warped orbit]

They get some benefits yeah

[fossil temple]

Thank will try with rogue first

[rapid wagon]

Would it seriously harm my ability to function as a magus to go hard into diplo and cha so that I can also face? I figure I have to let another stat slip, figure it could be str or dex

[rough anvil]

as long as you're not sacrificing your key attribute it should be all good

it's pretty hard to kneecap your own Pathfinder character

[rapid wagon]

I neat, I'm currently a champion who functions as a face and defender, and was lining a magus up for if I died, was worried about needing to fill my old role

[rough anvil]

oh yeah a magus can do that no problem

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/tonton-friends-yuta-chubby-shiba-shiba-inu-dog-gif-16103647401394133233

man i wish i knew how to remedy player apathy

one of my players is very down and he thinks that becuase we are entering the second part of cosmic birthday he wont have much to do

since hes not a character thats good at talking

i keep trying to tell him there will be things for everyone to do

and I want to try anbd help everyone enjoy, but it never works

[crystal walrus]

What does his character do?

[plucky snow]

What is a good post-remaster form-fillable character sheet?

[eager mountain]

Solarian

so alot of melee

[rough anvil]

I’ve noticed that some players get thrown for a loop by Charisma stats in games, just in general

“I have a low Charisma so I should just not talk” — in real life very few people think this way!

[warped orbit]

mechanically its a valid sentiment though, which is the issue

[rapid wagon]

I think very few people have an accurate assessment of their Charisma in real life

And in general people in real life aren't trying to optimize interactions for the best statistical odds on success

[surreal basin]

The problem is mostly how skills work in 2e lol

Where just going with the roleplay and rolling your untrained charisma is gonna be a crit fail past level like

5

[stuck bane]

I think that’s why things like the influence and investigation subsystems exist. If you’re gonna have sections heavily dependent on conversational npc interaction, they give the non-charisma characters things to do

Like the character with the academics background getting to use their academia lore to sway a historian

[rustic cape]

I think to some extent as a GM you have to allow that a lot of persuasive social interactions are not rolled

And that to some extent rolling should be saved for contexts where a character is trying to achieve a broad mechanical effect

[limber comet]

Also failing upwards is totally a thing

[rustic cape]

Like, if you go up to a person and tell them something that is true that would motivate them to action, you don’t then have to roll diplomacy with a circumstance bonus or whatever

They just act

[rough anvil]

It is an issue yeah

One hopes that GMs aren’t auto-scaling the DC of normal social interaction every level

[surreal basin]

Yeah that as well I suppose

[rough anvil]

It can be hard to unknit narratively

[surreal basin]

Ultimately I think it’s a minor issue since yeah you shouldn’t be calling for a social roll every time someone talks

IMO

[warped orbit]

Its based on the level of whoever you are talking to

[surreal basin]

Although the scenarios in which you’d need to like

Use a skill on someone significantly lower level than you

Are quite low

But also yeah you should probably just auto succeed in those moments

(Unless you’re trying to do something with significantly increased scale but we’re starting to get into the stuff that’s GM fiat anyway)

[rough anvil]

specifically what i'm talking about above is when groups will decide that the only person who should ever talk to an NPC is the one with the highest Diplomacy

Not common, but I have seen it happen!

If you're addressing a specific challenge, then yeah, shine on Charisma based characters!

[surreal basin]

Yeah I’ve had that happen

(Thankfully our current statistical face is really bad at talking)

[echo briar]

I am on page 5 of the season of ghosts AP, and I can already tell why this is considered the best AP.

||That is one hell of a twist||

[surreal basin]

:3

hehe'

[frank crystal]

Im not someone who’s gonna play it, what’s the twist?

[echo briar]

||the party is dead, and their ghosts have been in a time loop for 100 years||

[frank crystal]

Oh sick

[surreal basin]

NOTE do not read this if you EVER plan to play this AP

this AP benefits immensely from not knowing things about it

[frank crystal]

Question about it, what’s the premise ||before the twist is revealed?||

[echo briar]

Ghosts attack you.

[surreal basin]

Protect your small Asian village from The Horrors

[echo briar]

a no good, very bad, horrible year of ghosts.

[frank crystal]

Neat

[rustic cape]

Really it should be called Several Seasons of Ghosts

[sudden lark]

Is the Tian Xia book for 2e good?

I remember...1e's version.

[light gyro]

uuuu i wanna play season of ghostssss

[eager mountain]

memes from my cosmic birthday group

[surreal basin]

Yes

[eager mountain]

ye

[crystal walrus]

I hear it's fantastic

[rustic cape]

Very much so. They brought in a lot of outside freelancers from the many cultures it was based on to help them recreate it (including our very own Winged).

[light gyro]

I must've missed that, woa :o

[rustic cape]

She talked about it a bit before release

[echo briar]

Do we know what sections Winged worked on?

[clever cobalt]

Uhhhhh

Yes buit I forget the name

sec

I think Valash Raj?

Potentially Valashmai

[solar storm]

The place with the clockwork plague

[rustic cape]

Could probably ask her, I doubt she’d be cagey about it

[solar storm]

I forget the name offhand

[clever cobalt]

Oh Nagajor

[frank crystal]

What’s that?

(The clockwork plague)

[clever cobalt]

yeah it's Nagajor I'm pretty sure

[rustic cape]

But she was one of many people they brought in to help write a more genuine, more interesting Tian Xia

[clever cobalt]

hoards of haunted clockwork mechanisms and whatnot

[solar storm]

There’s a cave where once a year on the dot a fuck-ton of clockwork constructs emerge and cause Problems

[clever cobalt]

yeah

[solar storm]

Also ghosts and such

[clever cobalt]

No one knows where they came from, in or out of the setting

[solar storm]

It’s a local natural hazard basically

[clever cobalt]

Also, question

[frank crystal]

Rad

[clever cobalt]

if you could make the Gunslinger better

how would you do it?

what would their "gimmick" or mechanic be?

if there is one

personally, maybe better guns for one :v

[rustic cape]

(And along with Mwangi it’s a good reminder that bowing to the Woke Mob often just results in outright better stories and material)

[echo briar]

they shoot guns out of slings

the name should be literal.

[solar storm]

I’m not all that dissatisfied with Gunslinger

[rustic cape]

I often hear people complain about their crit dependency

[trail nova]

Yeah, reload weapons not balanced around quick draw would be nice

[rustic cape]

Might be something to that

[solar storm]

If I was gonna mess with them I’d give them a little more ability (rerolls?) to mitigate cold dice

Since they’re one of the most die heat dependent classes

[rustic cape]

“Cold dice” I like that phrase

[clever cobalt]

Fair, maybe it's just me who finds the class a bit weird

actually

my friend has a book he's using in our game, with custom guns

[echo briar]

Unironically, they need sling support.

[warped orbit]

Better metastrikes and other feats

[echo briar]

they should work with all loading weapons.

and sling is literally in the name.

[clever cobalt]

How do these guns look?

[warped orbit]

Ironically, one of the most consistent Gunslinger builds rn uses an Arbalest

[frank crystal]

Where are these from?

[clever cobalt]

Gunsmoke

https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com/product/387020/Gunsmoke-a-Pathfinder-2e-Cowboy-Expansion

[frank crystal]

Thanks

Does this have a foundry module?

[clever cobalt]

yes actually

[frank crystal]

These are just the kinda guns I’m looking for

[clever cobalt]

https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com/product/398251/Foundry-Gunsmoke?filters=0_0_0_100157_0_0_0

[frank crystal]

Awesome

[warped orbit]

what does speedloader do?
you just reload all barrels at once?

[solar storm]

Those are definitely powercreeping the ones in official material

But that’s intentional since they’re like 2 generations more advanced haha

[clever cobalt]

Not that bit it's basically for guns wtih like, 6 or 10 rounds

since you don't wanna spend all that actions to fully reload them

[echo briar]

my biggest concern is actually the trappers knife

[warped orbit]

main ones that stand out to me is the semi auto pistol and rifle

but those are also rare I guess

[solar storm]

Same

[echo briar]

that is arguably too good for a marital weapon, but as a simple one?

[clever cobalt]

it's martial

[echo briar]

ah, misread it

[clever cobalt]

unless I'm missing the point :V

ah fair

no worries

but yeah I'd love to run a Repeater Carbine, Frontier Repeater, or Semi-Automatic Rifle

on a Gunslinger

[warped orbit]

the rest seem fine mostly?
a lot more capacity, but Capacity also doesn't do all that much by itself

[frank crystal]

Especially on a two handed weapon where I think there’s literally no difference

[clever cobalt]

yeah Capacity is basically "this long until you need to start reloading"

Hmm

has anyone made a Gunslinging Exemplar yet?

[frank crystal]

One of my players has

Gunslinger class exemplar archetype

Free victors wreath is pretty strong

[clever cobalt]

Nice

[rustic cape]

It would be fun if gunslinger were the go-to class for making a slinger

[frank crystal]

But he’s also only 1 level into the archetype

Most of the game he took vigilante

So he doesn’t really have any exemplar feats yet

[warped orbit]

tbh, the dedication is all you need mostly

getting a full ikon is pretty nuts

[frank crystal]

It’s very strong

This party just has Victor’s wreath now

Permanent +1 for everyone

[rustic cape]

Shadow Sheath is an amazing straight upgrade for throwers

[frank crystal]

I also have someone else who took exemplar archetype for bangles in his control kineticist build

So he would ice sheet, grapple, and bangles

Moving any enemies in a 15 feet radius around that guy was practically impossible

[wary yoke]

I picked up Gunsmoke but was generally unsatisfied that it basically replaced the existing firearms

Whereas I wanted advanced firearms that could exist alongside existing ones

So I just... Made my own

[surreal basin]

I think for someone who thinks the existing guns are a little anemic these guns are good

[light gyro]

once a year on the dot. like clockwo-

[sudden lark]

Ok I'll get it then!

[echo briar]

RAW, is there any way for a player to spread a disease to another player?

[surreal basin]

Not really something that’s covered in the rules

[echo briar]

Like, it obviously works RAI or just narratively (unless miasma theory is true in Pathfinder)

Which to be fair, miasma would explain why skeletons can get sick

It’s not germs, it’s a literal curse caused by gross things

[rustic cape]

Keep your skeleton clean

[limber comet]

It could be both; Ghlaunder is out and about fucking around

It would not surprise me if he made a sickness-curse

Or like, Apollyon

[echo briar]

I mean, how do skeletons get sick under germ theory?

Miasma theory works, germ theory doesn’t

[solar storm]

Negative energy consuming germs

[limber comet]

It's a fantasy setting, both work

[wary yoke]

Magical diseases working via miasma theory is something I'm going to be carrying forward

[limber comet]

I'm not a microbiologist idk man

[limber comet]

Also this idea is really cool

I like the idea of there being specifically undead predators; like creatures that prey specifically on undead

[wary yoke]

1E umbral dragons fed on undead, specifically incorporeal ones

[rustic cape]

Given the diseases covered under the game rules do not really behave a ton like IRL diseases I'm willing to assume they are a slightly different class of thing

[echo briar]

Miasma also explains why diseases work on every ancestry, when germs would likely only work on one or a few of them

Viruses are specialized. Plants and mammals are not getting sick from the same one.

[plucky snow]

It's also an easy explanation for why cure and purify spells work so universally

[surreal basin]

Attempting to answer this is madness because we must then ask

How do some skeletons get sick and others can’t

:p

[echo briar]

Miasma effects the soul next question

Mindless skeletons don’t have full souls

[surreal basin]

Ghost

[echo briar]

PC ghosts are more attached to life than NPC ghosts

Pc ghosts died very recently, as you can only become one at level 2

This is also what lets them get new items

[rustic cape]

why can only ghouls get the sudden leap feat

making them the best for leap optimization

[limber comet]

I kinda wanna make a whip focused archetype

[errant roost]

PC undead get psychosomatic illnesses

[turbid dagger]

Sudden Leap is a trademark of pf2e ghoul statblocks, basically

[surreal basin]

Character for red mantis assassins adventure made

[solar storm]

Oh what’d you make?

[surreal basin]

Shisk Laughing Shadow Magus

With the red mantis assassins archetype

[surreal basin]

Kinda going for like a religious corvo attano

[eager mountain]

first character token is in for my rusthenge group

Kee Akee , played by Autumn.

5ft tall awakened Osprey Swashblucker

the borb

[frank crystal]

BIRD

[solar storm]

Siiick

I’m playing a half elf red mantis school wizard in it

[sturdy drum]

i really wanna play a bloodrager in a strength of thousands campaign but i havent found one yet

[tribal vortex]

Bloodrager seems odd

[sturdy drum]

why do u think so

[turbid dagger]

A lot of its class mechanics encourage you to raw cast spell attack spells, with your non KAS casting stat and your non-caster scaling spell prof

[sturdy drum]

i think the biggest appeal about Bloodrager, at least for me anyway, is Hemocritical

i do agree with the attack spells part. since it incurs and suffers from MAP, playing into using attack spells feels like a trap option unless u need hit someone far away, that and because your spell attack rolls suck in the first place

you know what they're real good at though compared to the other gishes? they can impose disadvantage on saves. that is huge because this means Bloodrager can actually take spells that target saves, which usually is a bad idea for multiclass casters and magi

[balmy orchid]

What's Hemocritical?

I was looking at playing a Bloodrager/Warpriest combo in a game I'm possibly joining

[frank crystal]

I think that’s a mechanic in 2E bloodrager

It’s a lot more, blood themed

Rather then barbarian sorc

[balmy orchid]

ah okay

[steel blade]

sorc in general in pf2e, post-remaster, is big on blood magic

hematocritical is a level 10 feat for bloodrager, free action after critting with a strike you get adv on a spell attack or give a target disadv on a save, as a fortune/misfortune effect as normal with this kind of stuff

[rustic cape]

Bards get some cool stuff

Just helped a friend build a bard

At level 8

Interesting class

[dark fjord]

f o r t i s s i m o

[rustic cape]

Yep!

[dark fjord]

my new favourite bard idea is a warrior bard to Multifarious's into Maestro to get fortissimo, while also wearing medium armour and also uses a few gish spells when available (like Blink Charge)

bonus points if Mauler archetype is available for the slam down

[trim grotto]

Automaton exemplar would go hard

[clever cobalt]

Whats your idea?

I do agree

[trim grotto]

None so far

[limber comet]

I got Howl physically for Chrimma :]

[wooden orbit]

WHY YA GOTTA HIT ME WITH A STRAY BULLET LIKE THAT

[eager mountain]

https://bskye.app/profile/hina-antares.bsky.social/post/3leailqmsds2i

[clever cobalt]

Wondering how a Fleshwarp who ascended via Starstone may affect Golarion and its internal political/religious structure

Since IIRC only humans have been ascended so far. And Fleshwarps are generally second class at best in a lot of places.

[wooden orbit]

-rolls up sleeve- I got me a deity to fight. Nex wouldn't stand for this.

I think a Fleshwarp ascending to godhood would be pretty neat.

Or a Goblin

[echo briar]

Depends on which fleshwarp ascends

If it happened to be evil, or even just kind of a jerk, I could see it hurting way more than it helps

[worthy stump]

only humans that we know of. whatever and whoever Norgorber was as a mortal, no one knows anymore

[clever cobalt]

Norgorber was ||A human||

[upbeat ridge]

https://bsky.app/profile/eviebrite.bsky.social/post/3lec7awc5is24

Evie Brite | ⭐Cosmic Dragon ⭐| Vtuber (@eviebrite.bsky.social)

Because these damn tins contain anything but cookies

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Bluesky · Dec 27, 2024, 2:30 PM

[surreal basin]

Alright, can mark down uhhh

Stolen Fate and Gatewalkers as finished campaigns by my group

[eager mountain]

Which one did you like more?

[surreal basin]

Def stolen fate

[eager mountain]

Ima be in eventually

[surreal basin]

Gatewalkers was really rough in places and had some structural issues

Stolen Fate had a lot of cool stuff and a really unique structure

[eager mountain]

Yeahhhh our game fell apart of that

[limber comet]

Oh yeah did anybody (besides me) check out the new homebrew martials on Pathfinder Infinite?

https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com/product/506794/Thrill-of-Death?src=by_author_of_product

These ones

This shit is rad

Also the iconics are an automaton and a surki

Two of my favorite (non-core) ancestries

[rustic cape]

What's their deal?

[limber comet]

They have..m

Unusual hps

Daredevil has 14 hp per level with NO armor training beyond unarmored

Martyr has. 4 hp per level

[rustic cape]

I meant like, broad concept

"The barbarian is a guy who gets mad" type stuff

Although those names give me some ideas

[turbid dagger]

At a glance, they seem a bit hard to sum up
Daredevils are stylish and hot-headed, imperiling themselves to recklessly lunge into the fray
Martyrs are touched by strange phenomenon that make them somewhat unkillable ala Lich

[frank crystal]

I’m gonna hope that means features that make them durable

Because otherwise 4 base HP seems quite killable

[turbid dagger]

Each subclass gets a unique effect that occurs when they hit 0 that unkills them

[frank crystal]

Neat

[limber comet]

Sorry, I should've summarized better

[limber comet]

Both are what I'd call complex martials

Daredevil focuses on rushdowns and using advanced weapons, while having a unique feature called "marks" which you can apply to an enemy by using certain actions with the Mark trait. These marks can be taken away using the Reap action, while deals damage for each mark the enemy has

Martyr is a...hard to explain. It's a battlefield control type class, that, while very fragile, has a lot of ways to keep kicking, such as setting up "anomalies" which are functionally respawn points, though your wounded value does increase when you use them after going to 0 hp

[clever cobalt]

The Martyr is basically the Lich but PF2e

[limber comet]

Pretty much yeah

Which is fucking rad

I love it

[clever cobalt]

The Daredevil meanwhile is a massive glass cannon

Even moreso than the barbarian

[limber comet]

Yeah, but you're gonna be doing a LOT of damage

Also Daredevil gets Limit Break, Three Sword Style, and the Marksman Pistol

I'm a little surprised there's no Royal Guard feat

I can reasonably see myself playing a Daredevil honestly

[uneven wren]

Hey this might be a question that comes up a lot but I'm pretty new to Pathfinder and I'm playing a sorcerer (undead). What magic items are there that are useful for spellcasters? Particularly like Martials can get plus one weapons, but as far as I can tell casters can't get anything like that? In a recent session we came across a magic item merchant and I looked through the list of things available and most of it seemed not useful for me.

[rustic cape]

1E or 2E?

[uneven wren]

2e

[rustic cape]

So, your first expenditures will probably be wands and staffs, just to give yourself more spells

You can of course invest in armor/robes, skill bonuses, utility items for flight and speed and such, etc

[eager mountain]

also generally any item that can give you more spells

preferably of your tradition

[frank crystal]

Hey gamers, do you have any names for like, mythological bulls?

[true delta]

Quick: What kind of penalty is the -2 penalty from a weapon's Volley trait?

[warped orbit]

seems like its untyped

[thorny berry]

Asterion would be the classic.

[frank crystal]

That’s the Minotaur right?

[balmy orchid]

The Minotaur was just called the Minotaur

[frank crystal]

Where does that name come from?

[clever cobalt]

Hades

[frank crystal]

Ah

[warped orbit]

Asterion is also a king of Crete

[heavy fulcrum]

foster-father of minos

[warped orbit]

yeah

[heavy fulcrum]

and the minotaur was occasionally referred to by that name as well

but its extremely uncommon

wikipedia gives two examples, Pausanias' Description of Greece (2nd century AD) and the Bibliotheca (1st or 2nd century AD)
ex: In the market-place of Troezen is a temple of Artemis Saviour, with images of the goddess. It was said that the temple was founded and the name Saviour given by Theseus when he returned from Crete after overcoming Asterion the son of Minos. This victory he considered the most noteworthy of his achievements, not so much, in my opinion, because Asterion was the bravest of those killed by Theseus, but because his success in unravelling the difficult Maze and in escaping unnoticed after the exploit made credible the saying that it was divine providence that brought Theseus and his company back in safety.

[frank crystal]

Ahhh, I always wondered where Hades got that name

[rustic cape]

Donn Cuailnge and Finnbhennach

Bulls from Irish mythology, specifically the Ulster Cycle

[frank crystal]

What are they like?

[heavy fulcrum]

literally just a pair of bulls (i mean, worms magically transformed into bulls, but still)

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[heavy fulcrum]

well, actually guys who transform a bunch until turning into worms and then being eaten by cows and being reborn as bulls but largely just a pair of bulls from then on

[rustic cape]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donn_Cuailnge

[heavy fulcrum]

who get caught up in the larger events of the Ulster Cycle where "two really cool bulls that used to be dudes" is fairly mundane

[frank crystal]

I see, hmm, do we have any kinda name for the golden calf in exodus?

Otherwise I’m probably gonna use Asterion

Because while those names are cool, they don’t seem super thematically relevant to what this name is gonna be for

[rustic cape]

It did not have a name, no

[heavy fulcrum]

you could transliterate one of the hebrew terms but theres no specific name

[rustic cape]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_in_religion_and_mythology

[frank crystal]

Fug

[rustic cape]

Take a look at the above

See if anything stands out

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s a good idea

[rustic cape]

I’m not sure if he Bull of Heaven from the epic of Gilgamesh has a name

[true delta]

Lengthy blog about today's session:

||My group had a very fun Frozen Flame session today. We're all noticeably improving. We played the Old Battleground. Mechanically, I replaced the Animated Blades with Animated Brooms in order to spare my group from tetanus. Our rogue is learning to impose Off Guard more regularly and has finally thrown the spear with the hand from the start. Our new Belkzen cleric recognized Yaguun. Shaggy Shemven immobilized Yaguun with his hair, exposing his everything in the process. And our ranger smartly used the opportunity to exit the fear emanation (or whatever the scarecrow's thing is called). Only our alchemist may have been a little frustrated because she had to leave early (hence Shemven, to compensate). She got stabbed by an animated broom knife, then tried to retaliate with a Dread Ampoule bomb, against which the brooms were immune. I'm making it my homework to understand alchemists and give her more fun challenges.||

[echo briar]

Are there any canon examples of creoles?

Mixtures of two languages that turn into their own language

[turbid dagger]

Taltien comes to mind
Derived from, well, Taldor and Tien
Spoken very commonly in Linvarre

[true delta]

Thank you

Another question for the chat:I have noticed that my ranger player's got a longbow with Deadly D10. But she rarely scores critical hits. My question is: What can a ranger player do to enhance their chances? She plays a level 2 ranger and her Hunter's Edge is... Precision? The thing where you get to shoot twice and have it count as one attack.

[warped orbit]

Off Guard is an easy way to improve your hit chance, but ranged has a harder time getting it

Hiding or being Invisible is an option

Or having melee allies Trip or Grapple the target

Also buffs are always good

[echo briar]

Do any APs take place significantly (at least 20 years) in the past? Season of ghosts does not count due to spoilers

[crystal walrus]

Why do you ask out of interest

[echo briar]

I’m just curious

[steel blade]

mostly just because of how old they are, some of the 3.5e/PF1e APs are technically set ~15-17 years ago(Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, Legacy of Fire)

[echo briar]

That’s why I specified 20 years

It has to have been purposely set in the past, not set in the present a decade ago

[sudden lark]

Remind me again is there a way in PF2e to simulate a drakewarden?

[warped orbit]

play a Ranger and take a riding drake animal companion I suppose

or anyone with the Beastmaster archetype

[turbid dagger]

Also Wyvern Animal Companions are a thing now and they are REALLY good

[true delta]

???

[turbid dagger]

https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e/animal-companions/wyvern

[warped orbit]

pretty good advanced maneuver

[echo briar]

What book is it from?

[frank crystal]

Finally I can do dragon rider shit

Well I could have used a riding Drake but that isn’t as cool

[surreal basin]

Yeah that’s a great question what IS this from

It’s not on nethys so must be newer

[true delta]

Is Howl of the Wind on Nethys?

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[turbid dagger]

Its from Triumph Of The Tusk ( @surreal basin cuz you asked too )

The orc AP

[surreal basin]

Ahhhhh

I see

[frank crystal]

Do orcs ride wyverns in Golarion?

[limber comet]

Yes

They're pretty common in Belkzen

Wyverns, I mean

[frank crystal]

Rad

[silver geyser]

There's also the Gorthek in 1e. https://aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Gorthek

[frank crystal]

I’m not super familiar with PF1E, but 18 AC at CR7 seems really bad

Like is it normal?

[surreal basin]

That’s normal

AC doesn’t really change via level a ton

[silver geyser]

You have a NPC riding that, and they could potentially put some Barding on it. Or just use Mounted Combat.

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[trail nova]

AC is weird, though it should probably be higher. The big thing is that a full bonus attack is extremely likely to hit in 1e, it’s the follow ups that matter (and since natural attacks have at most a -5 penalty, it doesn’t matter that much for them.

And AC does change a lot as you go up, it's just through either "arbitrary numbers to make the math look okay-ish" on the monster side, or a bunch of magic items on the player side

[surreal basin]

Yknow

Sometimes

I wanna find the designer responsible for specific things

And asking them what the point is

Like the dancer swashbuckler

[surreal basin]

Like its value is mostly in performance being really easy to get panache with but

I can’t imagine that was supposed to be its niche lol

[rustic cape]

It is and it isn’t

Is this a monster or a PC?

[surreal basin]

Monster

[rustic cape]

Oh then whatever

[surreal basin]

Also technically AC doesn’t matter in Pathfinder 1e but that’s a higher level thing

[rustic cape]

The big thing with AC in 1E is not stopping a character’s first attack in most cases

It stops iteratives and limits the use of Power Attack

[surreal basin]

True

Although at high levels even that becomes like

Lesser

Is more what I meant

[rustic cape]

The first attack can generally be assumed to hit by mid levels

[novel merlin]

They pump something into the Paizo office ventilation that makes the devs think fascinate is a real effect that people want to apply

[surreal basin]

Yeah idk what’s up with it

It could be usable w a flat check on that hostile action clause or smth

But as it stands it’s only really good for making an escape or narrative stuff

[novel merlin]

its like theoretically usable against a caster to draw pseudo-aggro while focusing damage against another target

[surreal basin]

Nah

[novel merlin]

Oh wait

"you or any of your allies"

[surreal basin]

It also ends if u use a hostile action against their allies

[novel merlin]

lmao why bother

[surreal basin]

Yeah

No yeah it’s a really bad condition

I…. Honestly don’t know why it’s really in the game

[novel merlin]

It like exists for stealth I guess?

Like decent out of combat

[surreal basin]

Oh wow yeah it just exists for concentrate

Yeah it’s good out of combat

But it’s also really weird because that makes it…. Kinda the only condition that’s out of combat relevant

*exclusively

[novel merlin]

battledancer also got worse now that you get panache on a failure

like even a demoralize swash can still just trade 1 action for panache even on an enemy immune to fear

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Again I just want to know if like

We’re collectively missing something? Is fascinated supposed to have some application no one is seeing????

[novel merlin]

I still make my player make a roll against the save just to see if the scary thing they say is good enough to hype them up even a little

[surreal basin]

Lmao

[novel merlin]

Mostly because it's incredibly funny when she crit fails and ends up fumbling yelling at a golem.

[eager mountain]

Claws of the Tyrant is an anthology of three interconnected adventures set in the former nation of Lastwall, now known as the Gravelands. Gravelands Survivors is a Pathfinder Adventure for four 1st-level characters that follows a group of refugees as they race to keep a holy artifact out of Seldeg’s clutches. In Ashes for Ozem, an adventure for four 7th-level characters, the players assume the roles of agents assembled by Seldeg to infiltrate a stronghold of good and destroy it from within. In Of Blood and Faith, an adventure designed for four 18th-level characters, the Knights of Lastwall and their allies prepare for the final confrontation with Seldeg and end the graveknight’s machinations once and for all.

interesting coorelation

seldeg is a living guy in bloodlords appearently

[surreal basin]

Well

He’s still undead but yeah

[carmine egret]

oooo

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/mabel-pines-you-da-best-best-gravity-falls-gif-12514906

[craggy thunder]

hmm

orc exemplar who has orcs constantly trying to fight them cuz of their whole 'kill a god to become one' type thing

[steel blade]

as someone playing an orc exemplar, i am concerned about this possibility

[craggy thunder]

l m a o

[steel blade]

upside is i have the gladiator archetype so if someone does ever challenge me, i get buffs for having an audience

[craggy thunder]

I think my answer to 'gunslinger feels boring' is to give a centaur a gun

[carmine egret]

Save a horse, etc

[crystal walrus]

Horse Rancher? No Horse, Rancher.

[wary yoke]

In our setting in 1E centaurs were very proficient with firearms and ranged weapons in general, and could use a size bigger

We're going to give them something that makes them better at using Kickback weapons

[craggy thunder]

nice

[eager mountain]

once again, I say

girlhood is a spectrum

[eager mountain]

oh wow , I just saw earth seraph edna in the wild

( on the starfinder discord )

[warped orbit]

They're pretty active in Starfinder currently

[eager mountain]

yeah

thier post swere from this

but yeah they seem a bit inflexable, but hey its reddit

[astral prawn]

They're certainly something

[upbeat ridge]

https://bsky.app/profile/lorenziniforce.bsky.social/post/3letyofpf7s2k

Andréa θ∆ 🐉 (@lorenziniforce.bsky.social)

tactical breach wizards is directly responsible for half of the shenanigans that goes down in my pf2 games' combats

Bluesky · Jan 3, 2025, 4:20 PM

https://bsky.app/profile/lorenziniforce.bsky.social/post/3letypmikyk2k

Andréa θ∆ 🐉 (@lorenziniforce.bsky.social)

"mechanized infantry fireteam with attached specialist pyromancer"

Bluesky · Jan 3, 2025, 4:21 PM

SF2 would be a great system for a game in the TBW setting

Or a game inspired by it

[true delta]

Re: Reddit argument

I would argue that once your interlocutor is trying to convince third parties you harbour paedophilic tendencies, you can no longer win them over with arguments about the metagame.

[errant roost]

definitely a good baseline

[steel blade]

i've bounced back and forth between wanting to use SF2e and some combination of ICON and/or Lancer homebrew to do a TBW game

[crystal walrus]

I heard an idea that draw steel is close to what one might want

[steel blade]

SF2e could definitely capture the setting I'd want out of it, but mechanically it's a lot less focused on tactics and stuff so im unsure

[crystal walrus]

Lots of pushing and pulling and moving

[steel blade]

[true delta]

For a streamlined, tactical fame of special forces, but with magic, check out Erebus on Itch. White abd red cover with a human-like figure.

Mechanically, It's built on Lancer but seems more streamlined. Vibes and setting are somewhere between X-COM and fighting the time- and dimension-hopping colonialism of Half-Life's Combine.

It may be less focused on the breaching part, out of the box. Unsure.

[steel blade]

[carmine egret]

oooo

[true delta]

Friends! My group's campaign is to migrate to Foundry. We're going to use third-party hosting. How much storsage space will we need? So far, we're planning to run two APs, possibly in parallel.

[echo briar]

I know people talk about how OP the exemplar dedication is, but isn't the animist dedication also way better than most?

it is literally every other spell casters dedication with a free master skill tacked on

[warped orbit]

haven't looked at Animist ded in detail yet

[surreal basin]

Doin a clock based minigame in my pathfinder session tonight

They’re in an El Dorado style hidden city and have to gain their trust before their patience runs out

[surreal basin]

6 book or 3 book APs?

The official modules are pretty hefty, averaging probably about 100-200 MB of data per book

[true delta]

3 books. It's Quest for the Frozen Flame, so I upload stuff manually.

[eager mountain]

Soooo

Cool cover

[true delta]

Indeed!

[sacred bluff]

Somehow they still managed to make a "Party up against a dragon" cover, kudos

[eager mountain]

I wonder what kind

New type?

( or is it actually a New Type from gundam!? )

[echo briar]

Red, it’s just blue shifted.

The camera is moving really fast

[craggy thunder]

man

I'm still rly proud of my awakened animal character idea

[upbeat ridge]

Wdym sf2e is quite tactical

If pf2e is anything to go off of

[eager mountain]

Disagreeeee

In that it definantly has tactics

But it’s entirely up to how the dm and players run it

You can definantly play it without tactics

“For the dreadful foe we chose the laser-eyed Akashic dragon, a new creature designed for Starfinder Second Edition. For the battle’s setting we selected a futuristic museum full of artifacts from the era of Paizo’s other game, Pathfinder. There’s even a few easter eggs that longtime Pathfinder players might recognize!”

Ok so there areee new dragons

[clever cobalt]

do we have a release date yet?

[eager mountain]

cant seem to find the core rulebook

[eager mountain]

gen con 2025

so like 8 months

[limber comet]

Alien core will probably be a staggered release, unfortunately

[surreal basin]

?

Oh like it won’t come out at the same time?

Definitely possible

[limber comet]

Yeah

Like how PC1, GMC, and MC all came out at different times

[upbeat ridge]

huh

id assume sf2e gm core would come out at the same time so the game is like

playable?

[surreal basin]

Yeah I’d also assume so

[upbeat ridge]

but, player core is gonna have 6 classes right?

[surreal basin]

It’s gonna have all the classes from the playtest

[surreal basin]

Man skill challenges like victory points are really easy huh

Like I’ve rarely if ever seen my group struggle with them lol

[eager mountain]

presumably

Galaxy guide comes out in march

IIRC

correction

april

basically a setting guide kind of thing with some additional options

( artwork for the gmcore

[limber comet]

I'm so glad Kent Hamiliton gets to do cover art

His art is so fucking sexy I just adore it arghhhh

I do hope Alien Core isn't Alien Archive levels of small though

[craggy thunder]

I'm noticing an interesting like, demographic breakdown in my characters in terms of where they're from

5 are from the Impossible Lands (3 Jalmeray and 2 the Mana Wastes), 3 the Shining Kingdoms (2 Kyonin and 1 Taldor), 3 the Eye of Dread (Nirmathas, Belkzen, and Oprak), 2 the Broken Lands (Sarkoris Scar and the River Kingdoms), 2 Tian Xia (both Minata), 2 Old Cheliax (Isger and Cheliax proper), 2 the Shackles (Ushiwara Isles and Besmara's Throne), 1 Mwangi Expanse (Kutanju), and 1 Absalom

So far none from the Saga Lands, Golden Road, or Arcadia

I have four more classes to make concepts with

[eager mountain]

IIRC , lini is from the land of the linorm kings

so shes from the saga lands

[craggy thunder]

Oh I meant the characters I'm making, sorry lol

[eager mountain]

oh ok

[craggy thunder]

I know the cleric iconic is from Qadira on the Golden Road as well

I think the next character I'm gonna make is a shoanti/ulfen exemplar

[limber comet]

God I'm so excited to steal monsters from Alien Core

[limber comet]

There's a paizo live on the sixth...

Battlecry will be announced

I feel it

[turbid dagger]

Can't wait to see what the big war is
One of my friends will scream and die (positive) if it's Brevoy civil war

That same friend thinks its gonna be for rival academies though

[limber comet]

I think it might be multiple wars

Several places are on the verge of war

[steel blade]

yeah their initial tease from the playtest implied that it's not one war, but many, all being sparked by Gorum's death and the way that changes how people approach war on Golarion, iirc

[clever cobalt]

yeah

I think that's the most likely option

[echo briar]

I also bet they will announce the impossible book at the same time

Hell, there’s a small change battlecry and the impossible playtest are for the same book.

[errant roost]

Making them one book would feel weird from a marketing/hype cycle perspective

[limber comet]

Nah, the impossible book is slated for 2026

[surreal basin]

I made a god statblock for a character of mine that turned into an eldritch demigod at the end of our ruby phoenix campaign!

Nonergal, Sightseer
Areas of Concern: Science, Transformation/Transhumanism, Curiosity, Cosmic Exploration
Edicts: Discover New Things, Uncover the functioning of the universe, grow into something new
Anathema: Abandon Humanity entirely, Turn down an opportunity to learn, deny others knowledge
Divine Attribute: Intelligence
Divine Symbol: Gold-Edged Dodecahedron
Sacred Animal: Butterfly
Sacred Color: Jade

Devotee benefits:

Cleric Spells: 1st:Object Reading 3rd:Paralyze 5th: Abberant Form
Divine Font: Heal or Harm
Divine Sanctification: Choose Heal or Harm
Divine Skill: Occultism
Domains: Change, Knowledge,Magic, Star, Truth
Alternate Domains: Delirium, Nightmare
Favored Weapon: Claw/Fist

[limber comet]

Fucking rad

[eager mountain]

If I had to guess, the war against t at baphon

[balmy orchid]

question

PF1e

If I wanted to play a zombie, through what means am I able

[silver geyser]

So, what do you want out of being a zombie

[balmy orchid]

I do not want to be a sexy revenant or anything

I just wanna be a walkin' corpse

The closer I can get to "I'm essentially just a sentient zombie" the better

[silver geyser]

Ok, so getting Undead is a bit tricky

But

https://www.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1163

There's this

[balmy orchid]

HMMMM

Dying instantly on 0 hit points huh

[worthy stump]

undead do be like that

[silver geyser]

Yes. It also technically makes you unable to benefit from morale bonuses because of the mind-affecting immunity

Human with this might be better. https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Necromantic Affinity

Might also be worth considering Lich Curse Oracle

[limber comet]

Perpetually malding that Vigilante got shunted into an archetype in 2e

[sacred bluff]

It makes sense

[limber comet]

It does make sense but also like, unlike cavalier I feel like the concept of Vigilante would work better as a class

But I'm just a whiny baby who wants to play fantasy Spider-Man so

Plus I feel like the way 2e is structured as a system could allow for Vigilante to be a really cool class

[clever cobalt]

How so?

[limber comet]

I just feel like the way classes are structured now, usually with one or two types of "subclasses" could make for an interesting approach to Vigilante

But I suppose it being an archetype makes sense, because the classes in the game already mostly cover the bases that a vigilante class would

[clever cobalt]

Yeah was gonna say, a Rogue could do it well

[limber comet]

Well, it depends on what type of Vigilante you're going for

[sacred bluff]

1e vigilante was already cribbing pretty hard off of other classes, and the way 2e handles archetypes is perfect for just slotting in the only real mechanical conceit of the class

[eager mountain]

3rd party probably

[eager mountain]

ayone know if theres a way to get a animal companion in sf2e yet ?

[worthy stump]

Just the options from PF2e that allow it as far as I know

[light gyro]

i get why most disarm feats stipulate you need to be one-handing, but also: booo!!!! disarm isnt even good!!!!

(was toying with the idea of a dual wield disarm build for vibes)

[warped orbit]

It is usable now

Though I still kinda wish they made it universally applicable and not dependent on them having a weapon

[sturdy drum]

disarm is decent now. it's a -2 for an indefinite period of time until the target uses a manipulate action to interact. reactive strike go brrr free off-turn MAPless strike

it's like Trip in a sense, with a worse Success effect but with an even better Crit Success

it's something worth using now on humanoids but yeah it is kinda pointless when ur fighting against creatures that are unarmed

but Disarm is good now

[trim grotto]

If there's a necromancer in the party I absolutely have to play a clockwork reanimator

Shit if I play in a blood lords campaign that would be sick

[clever cobalt]

I still need to look at the Necromancer

How does it look?

[solar storm]

It looks cool but I haven't had to chance to play it

Feels very Lancer Hydra but PF2 to me

And the Hydra is my favorite Lancer mech lol

[clever cobalt]

Nice

[rustic cape]

Looks like a lot of fun, although there’s one or two minor tweaks it could use

It’s sort of a tower defense class?

But presented with Diablo 2 necromancer vibes

[clever cobalt]

Neat

[echo briar]

My main complaint is that it has way too many focus spells, like 12 or something

It really clogs up the class feats

[warped orbit]

I like the focus spells
I honestly kinda wish they had gone even more all in on being a focus only caster, no regular spellcasting

[solar storm]

That would have been wild yeah

[steel blade]

balancing that would be screwy probably

[echo briar]

Kinetisist

[steel blade]

which has no focus spells

idk, it depends how much you want them relying on focus spells vs feats i guess

[surreal basin]

The only thing I don’t like about Necromancer is that they’re still trying to give casters weird gish trees

[steel blade]

that said, actually, if they'd made them play like a kin but with some focus spells, still themed around occult magic and all that, that'd be pretty sick

[warped orbit]

that's basically what I would have preferred

just only at-will and some focus stuff

because I feel like the current version of Necro is already kinda there

[steel blade]

im still holding out hope we eventually get a kineticist-like class tied to the outer planes

[warped orbit]

it just also still has that two slot casting, but isn't really that focused on it I feel

[steel blade]

as in like, kin but divine or occult, i guess

[warped orbit]

I suppose my hot take is also that I generally wish slot casters weren't a thing really
but it's far too late for 2e for that
maybe if we ever get 3e

[steel blade]

(i just really want a pf2e warlock tbh psychic is cool but psyche cantrips dont really hit the right spot for me, since at best they're just cantrips+, and i like witch's thematics but it doesn't work as well mechanically for warlock shenanigans imo)

[silver geyser]

People would try to make them gishes anyways, might as well enable it some.

[surreal basin]

I guess lol

Dangerously close to trap options imo

[warped orbit]

It doesn't really enable it though is the thing

[silver geyser]

If this were a different chat, I'd talk about how Warlock is a pale imitation of the actual 4e Warlock.

[trim grotto]

Automaton Hungerseed fascinates me as an idea

im playing around with character ideas rn and im kinda fixated on the concept

[craggy thunder]

I think the closest we're gonna get to warlock is an archetype

maybe an oracle or witch class archetype

hmmm

spirit warrior thaumaturge....

[echo briar]

We never got the domain spell archetype they promised for WotI right?

Did they move it to divine mysteries?

[surreal basin]

Domain Spell archetype?

[rustic cape]

I feel like these feats are generally intended for martials multiclassing in

[surreal basin]

Weird but I guess so!

[rustic cape]

It’s the only explanation I can find and some of these feats are pretty attractive for a martial

Gives a little something something to the guy who wants to play a fighter with sorcerer archetype rather than just magus

[echo briar]

In the exemplar play test, there were class feats to get domain spells. They removed them from the final version saying that they were going to put them in an archetype so anyone can take them.

[surreal basin]

Oh idk then

[frank crystal]

Imaginary weapon is cracked on a lot of classes that aren’t psychic

[rustic cape]

Yeah, I think imaginary weapon is not one of those

It's just a high-risk, high-reward option

[craggy thunder]

We out here making a pantheon for the liuyedao cuz why not

[clever cobalt]

Liuyedao?

[rustic cape]

Type of sword

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liuyedao

[craggy thunder]

Also oh my god we finally have a depiction of a tengu gale blade

[rustic cape]

Not sure if it means something else in Tian Xia

[craggy thunder]

no that's what it is in tian xia

Though I will be a nerd and point out wikipedia has tagged that article's preview image as technically inaccurate/controversial

someone is contesting it's a yanmaodao instead

hi I have a weird hyperfixation on chinese swords

But yeah this pantheon is gonna include Hei Feng and Cayden Cailean

[rustic cape]

(The tricky part is of course that swordsmiths rarely cared much about fitting into a category, if that category even existed when they were making the weapon)

[craggy thunder]

Ye lmao

[rustic cape]

But yeah it's the standard military saber of China

[craggy thunder]

hei feng, cayden cailean

[rustic cape]

Strong spine, good cutting edge, decent thrusting ability, pretty intuitive to use at a baseline level while having lots of room to improve

[craggy thunder]

Very 'be boisterous and loud and obnoxious to the evil whose ass you're kicking'

[rustic cape]

Not that different from the saber of any other part of the world :D

[craggy thunder]

ye at a point a saber is a saber is a saber

(the katana is a variety of saber but some [mostly westerner] sword nerds aren't ready for that conversation)

[rustic cape]

The main distinction is that the katana is sometimes a little longer than your average saber and is meant to be used comfortably with two hands

In terms of blade shape, it is absolutely a standard permutation of saber, yeah

[craggy thunder]

a lot of Asian sabers can be used in two hands, to be fair

[rustic cape]

Right down to the strong spine, which is often noted as a specific quality of swords like this

[craggy thunder]

several varieties of dao, in fact XD

[rustic cape]

Yeah true

And several of them look a lot like katana

[craggy thunder]

the panabas, though idk how much 'lineage' that has with other sabers

the panabas might be a case of convergent evolution than anything

Anyways

[rustic cape]

Yeah

[craggy thunder]

pantheon that uses this specific saber

XD

Uh

[rustic cape]

That tracks

[craggy thunder]

Hei Feng, Cayden Cailean

part of me wants to add Irori but that feels odd

[surreal basin]

Thinking about making an archetype around the katana - maybe a swashbuckler archetype?

Mostly based in my own setting lol

[craggy thunder]

I would be interested to see it!

[surreal basin]

Would be based around dueling, not wearing armor, using poison, and maybe have something to do with keeping your panache for a while BEFORE using your finisher

Since their dueling philosophy in lore is to weaken your opponent with multiple lesser attacks before going in for the finishing blow

[craggy thunder]

inchresting

[rustic cape]

You could use Wolf Sekiro as a touchstone, and build a mechanic around breaking enemy posture

[limber comet]

https://paizo.com/products/btq08pw5/discuss?Pathfinder-Lost-Omens-Shining-Kingdoms#tabs

Lets fucking go??

[echo briar]

https://paizo.com/products/btq08pvw/discuss?Pathfinder-RPG-Treasure-Vault#tabs remastered treasure vaults

Which is really making it seem like SoM is not getting remastered, at least not in this minimal way

[solar storm]

Oh this is nice

[clever cobalt]

Nice, love the Shining Kingdoms

Even if they can be a bit generic fantasy at times

Eager to see 2e Taldor

Also reminds me of one of my dumb character concepts

The Godsrain displaced some people across the globe riggt? In the sense of teleportation and whatnot

[carmine egret]

I said real early on that I would love to see the same creative lens that produced Mwangi Expanse and Impossible Lands applied to the most bog-standard high fantasy region of Avastan

[clever cobalt]

Same

[trail nova]

Wooo! Taldor time!

[craggy thunder]

if rondelero doesn't feature I riot

[limber comet]

Taldor, Andoran, and Galt are what I wanna see the most rn

[clever cobalt]

Same

[clever cobalt]

Is it just me or are the Shining Kingdoms a good place for Mythic Campaigns

Lots of classical fantasy/Mythological stuff to do there

[trail nova]

I think they are a little too down to earth - mythic stuff there is going to be a much bigger deal than elsewhere

[surreal basin]

My player has an undead animal companion - is it fair to just like it heal/come back on a long rest?

[wooden orbit]

I'm chomping at the bit for Arcadia, and Casmaron for their next Lost Omen regional books

Especially Arcadia.

[limber comet]

I meant from the Shining Kingdoms :p

I think everyone here wants those

[craggy thunder]

I think I have come up with the most Animal™️ character concept

[clever cobalt]

What is it?

[craggy thunder]

Awakened Animal Animal Order Druid with Familiar Master and Order Explorer to go into Untamed Order

[trim grotto]

All of the mythic stuff looks so cool

[craggy thunder]

Out here making a way of the drifter red mantis

[sacred bluff]

How solidly does pf2e scale to two player characters? Did they actually manage to make that doable this time?

[solar storm]

Like just 2 PCs?

[sacred bluff]

Yeah

[solar storm]

I think it works ok but you need to be more careful with encounter design than normal

I don’t have a lot of experience with 2 PCs but three works fine

[surreal basin]

I would personally allow them one or two NPC companions

They can p pretty simple functionally, but allow you to be loser with the balancing

[craggy thunder]

gonna try making a drifter gunslinger hussar using cavalier

[limber comet]

https://paizo.com/products/btq08pwb?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-215-To-Blot-Out-the-Sun

I really hope this AP is good

[frank crystal]

What are the consequences for not drinking blood as a vampire?

[heavy fulcrum]

thats a good question because the game doesnt really define it!

though most would read it as "equal to not eating and drinking for a living person"

Undead Hunger: While you don't eat or drink the same food as humanoids do, you usually have thirsts and hungers related to your undead state, such as a ghoul's hunger for humanoid flesh, a zombie's craving for brains, and a vampire's desire for blood. Additionally, while you don't sleep, you enter a state of quiescence for at least 4 hours a day to recuperate, which lets your undead flesh reknit and recover naturally. Many undead choose to rest when the sun is at its highest.

[frank crystal]

You think they can properly die from that or just waste away but still technically live?

[echo briar]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6xwzn?The-Rival-Academies#discuss

Does kitharodian even do magic?

Why are a bunch of theater kids fighting demons?

[clever cobalt]

cause the Theatre kids are spies in training

Lion Blades and whatnot

[echo briar]

Like, they become spy’s, but the school doesn’t want you to know that, and how much could spying help with demons

“I’ve infiltrated the demon horde. Apparently they want to eat souls and have not plan except incredible violence. I’m not sure what else I was expecting”

[clever cobalt]

Well they're also bards and spell casters

And Demons have mortal allies/servants too

Plus yknow, they may just wanna show off to the other big schools in the Convention

[echo briar]

That’s why I asked if they even teach magic, because the article does not say that

If they do, then yea it makes perfect sense

[silver geyser]

Destruction is a goal that can vary in scope. As ever, look into demon lords to see the variety

[clever cobalt]

Fair enough, missed that

My bad

[rustic cape]

Have you ever known theater kids who weren't engaged in fighting demons? :P

[rustic cape]

At a baseline mechanical level, undead want to satisfy their hungers in order to pick up satiated benefits for their feats

That's the main thing

No satiated without eating stuff

... wait does that mechanic only appear on ghoul

I could have sworn it showed up elsewhere

[frank crystal]

Huh

Guess ghouls are hungry

[rustic cape]

Yeah ghouls specifically get a resource that they can refuel by consuming flesh

but why would you bother with that sudden leap works just fine without it

[turbid dagger]

Yeeee Ghoul is the only thing that cares about Satiated
Also Swift Leaps satiated benefit is crazy
Because High Jump and Long Jump have a Stride baked in, but Swift Leap is still just one action

[frank crystal]

Though that does mean my vampire character can not have drunk blood in decades, be barely held together and not be mechanically useless at least

[rustic cape]

I mean with leap optimization basic leaps can be pretty crazy

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, base swift leap is really nice, you can basically stride without proccing reactions forever fairly easily
But with satiation it also becomes action compression

[rustic cape]

also the trick is you take it on a liturgist animist to make it extremely silly forever

[frank crystal]

Yah true

Though the rest of your feats do suffer for being hungry

[rustic cape]

Mostly you just don't take a ton of ghoul stuff, I think

[frank crystal]

Yah true

[balmy orchid]

Actually got me thinking

How would you make a player character as Dracula as possible in PF1

[balmy orchid]

Brawler/Cruromancer Dhampir is what me thinks

[echo briar]

from todays blogpost, is that an owlbear?

With a redesign obviously, but I could totally see piazo slapping a different name and changing which parts are witch and claiming it’s a new, legally distinct thing

[heavy fulcrum]

beorwl

[echo briar]

“See, these are a mixture of any Ursoidea and any Tellurave, not just bears and owls. It’s a totally new thing”

[craggy thunder]

I have given one of the fantasy central africa demon-hunter elves metal skin and a giant gun

And told them thus

(I named the region of Africa I thought was the main inspo of the Mwangi Expanse but I was correct, right? Or did I completely misidentify it?)

[eager mountain]

presumably they do

since like your not just 1 class if you go into the Kitharodian

@frank crystal also consider that lepistadt college I think is also gonna be here, they focus more on sciences than magic

that being said they still use Stasian coils which are a form of magitech

also neat design sketches

[frank crystal]

Did you ping the wrong person here?

[frank crystal]

I don’t know what you’re talking about

[eager mountain]

oh apologizes

sorry

[frank crystal]

It’s fine

I was just confused

[eager mountain]

i responded to the vampire thing then started talking about something else

uhhh having played a vampire theres not really much other than fluff reasons to drink blood

at low level atleast

presumably tho , vampires NEED blood to revitalize or heal

other than negative magic

if you dont feed, you start looking worse

and becoming more feral

[rustic cape]

Are we talking book Dracula?

Because book Dracula does a lot of spellcaster stuff

[echo briar]

How would you simulate buying a used item for cheaper?

[silver geyser]

I wouldn't because of WBL

[echo briar]

If there’s no downsides, no one would pay full price. So either used items are cheaper with a downside, or new ones are more expensive with an upside

[solar storm]

This is what the shoddy trait is for imo

(I’ll note most things are used when you buy them anyway, so you only need a rule for “used up” items really)

[rustic cape]

I feel like the cost of a pair of Boots of Bounding is more a function of their effectiveness than how nice-looking they are

Like, I just wouldn't include a difference between used and new items

Because they both do the same stuff

Maybe a couple of GP for fresh polish and some work done on the inlay

If players cared about stuff like that

It's not like a half-price book where the expectation is that the object will last a physically shorter amount of time

[echo briar]

I could see it for a few items that should be crafted for each user. Someone else using it will encounter some problems

[rustic cape]

Sure, that seems reasonable

[eager mountain]

lol give used items slightly less price, but come with side effects

[rustic cape]

Ultimately at that point you can just say, "in XYZ's hands this item would be more powerful"

[eager mountain]

“ this leather armor smells wierd, less cost, but a penalty to stealth

[rustic cape]

Probably a circumstance penalty if you're doing something like that

[eager mountain]

Ye

Idk could just be more fluff stuff

[rustic cape]

Indeed

[solar storm]

Yeah that’s an option

[eager mountain]

This armor smells wierd.

[frank crystal]

Also I will say, maybe it’s just the groups I play with but in my experience players do tend to care if their character is in universe looks like shit

[eager mountain]

This sword is missing its pommel

This bow pulls a little to the right

[rustic cape]

On the flipside there's a subset of players who, if you told them they can get the shabby cloak for 120 gp or the nice cloak for 125, will actually spring for the nice cloak and feel good about themselves for doing it

But the traditional elfgame aesthetic is, in fact, "what the fuck are you wearing?" "the best stat boosts I could find"

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s who I’m referring to

My players are those types

[rustic cape]

Oh wait I read it backwards

I read don't instead of do

Yeah

[frank crystal]

Classic MMO fashion before you unlock the glamour system

[trail nova]

"fashion? that's for my item of disguise self"

[rustic cape]

D&D3e (and less so 3.5) actively went for that look in a lot of its art

[frank crystal]

Oh interesting

[rustic cape]

Just people who look like they found their outfit in ten different tombs

Because they did

[silver geyser]

https://youtu.be/xq1tN9jZI80?si=hpZFcbaAEMfgpy8-

[rustic cape]

Yissss

[stuck bane]

I do remember in the treasure vault crafting rules seeing a table of item quirks that things could get

They were a fun part of the alchemist player trying to constantly rush non-daily alchemical crafting

[wary yoke]

I love a good old-fashioned list of clothing prices

"I'm going to splurge and get the nice pants"

Though I also like the granularity because it puts the ideas in people's heads they can, y'know, change clothes

Like after a questing fighting sewer monsters

[silver geyser]

I own three outfits 😄

[trim grotto]

Hungerseed is such a cool heritage

[wary yoke]

I'm glad it's a unique thing and not new stuff for Nephilim

Now we just need a Beastblood heritage

[turbid dagger]

So
I might be playing in a PBP soon
I kind of want to play a psychic because I like the focus spell dynamic but I find myself worrying whether I would have more fun and be more effective as a martial of some sort
Having trouble selling myself on being so fragile in exchange for spell DPS when I could just do sword DPS and be tanky
Psychic is the least utility-leaning caster so it really lives or dies on its ability to kill bad dudes

[solar storm]

What level is the PbP?

[turbid dagger]

Starts at 1!

The comp is looking like
-A dude who said he'd play a full healer if no one else did
-A druid who has been upfront about how they do not plan on slotting heals
-A chirurgeon alchemist that probably is not sufficient to cover the full healer role at level 1
-A gunslinger and/or rogue
.......So I should probably actually go for someone tankier
Psychic will get its day
Eventually 😭

[solar storm]

Yeah that’s more of a play a martial or champion party comp