Pathfinder

[solar storm]

So I gotta preface this - I respecced my character to Animist as soon as it came out but this is isn’t a reflection on Oracle - my character is just a rivethun dwarf and lordy Animist does that well

That said I can’t comment on all of the Oracle mysteries but in general I prefer the remaster Oracle

[clever cobalt]

Makes sense, Rivethun Dwarfs are basically animists

[solar storm]

It’s easier to see what you get from the class and has less “gimmick power” and a lot of the old Oracle bad weird or annoying issues

The class is definitely less unique with the remaster but that is kind of 2 edged - my character was an ancestors oracle and pre remaster ancestors oracle was really hard to figure out as an option

[craggy thunder]

What was your mystery?

well whoops

xD

[solar storm]

Haha just seconds off

[craggy thunder]

yeah premaster ancestors seems

meh?

[solar storm]

Its pretty good but has really intense build requirements

You pretty much have to make an off ranged attacker who also has demoralize related feats and such

The new one is much more straightforward - you’re a 120% coward backline support caster

All in all I think the class is kinda janky either way but it's better feeling with the more solid core class power of the remaster

[upbeat ridge]

i wish 2 handed swashbuckler existed more

[frank crystal]

Feels like there needs to be a bigger variety of 2 handed finesses weapons as well

Rn there’s like, 3 good ones?

[craggy thunder]

And two of em are Elven

[limber comet]

Which tracks

[craggy thunder]

And one is honestly carried by the fact it’s basically a katana

[surreal basin]

Was thinking

Might be a space for a twinned scimitar weapon

Since actual scimitars are bad for the dual wield whirling dervish thing in PF2e

Maybe like sawtooth sabres but without agile? Maybe dump the damage to d8? Although I vaguely remember that d8 finesse weapons are illegal

Man sawtooth sabres really seem advanced mostly for lore reasons

[warped orbit]

They're advanced because they're basically better shortswords

Twin is pretty decent as a trait

[surreal basin]

Fair enough I guess

Yeah I guess shortswords are more what I’d want out of a scimitar……

[warped orbit]

Though there's also dandpatta if you don't care about finesse

Which makes them the perfect weapon for Flurry Ranger or dual wielding Fighter

[surreal basin]

Yknow I didn’t think about that but yeah I guess the dex requirement was ancillary

[upbeat ridge]

Does anyone have arazni’s new god entry?

[rustic cape]

It's several pages long, do you just want the stat header?

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah

[rustic cape]

Her new look

[upbeat ridge]

Seems fun to make a warpriest out of tbh

[craggy thunder]

Battle Oracle doesn't get medium armor anymore?

oof

[craggy thunder]

Oh man

weapon monk is cookin

ancestral weaponry being folded into the base monastic weaponry feat was a good choice

and in such a way that aldori dueling swords are now options for humans and tengu

[rustic cape]

It’s also just sort of fitting that the martial artist class is good at weapons with cultural significance

Like yeah that tracks

[craggy thunder]

Actually, thinking about it

hm

I think Tengu is the only one who can, and they'd need to be a sword scion to do it

But that is a way to do it

[echo briar]

a flames oracle gains persistent fire damage thats greater than the persistent fire damage from their curse. Is that mitigating the curse?

persistent damage of the same type don't stack, so you are just as on fire as literally everyone else.

I really wish they used the remaster to clarify what mitigating or reducing a curse means.

[solar storm]

I don’t see why it would be

[echo briar]

I'm no longer being harmed by the curse at all, but instead a different effect.

[solar storm]

Do you have persistent fire damage equal to or greater than your cursebound value? (Yes) so it’s hard to say you’re not

[turbid dagger]

You're still on fire because of your curse

[solar storm]

I don’t think the specific source of an instance of persistent fire damage is super important in this case

[worthy stump]

Yeah. You’re not mitigating the curse, because that situation is a penalty greater than the curse’s

[echo briar]

So, in a AP, the players get a McGuffin, but do not recognize they have the plot critical mcguffin and sell it. How would you handle this?

[limber comet]

End the world :p play stupid games win stupid prizes /j

I don't know how I'd handle that

Maybe like, genuinely step outside the game and tell your players the importance of the item?

[clever cobalt]

What AP?

And yeah

That or make it clear in-game that it's plot critical

[limber comet]

I feel like if you don't really wanna have to engineer a really bizarre scenario for them to get it back, you should outright tell the players

[surreal basin]

Yeah just tell them

In an AP you gotta do that sometimes

[echo briar]

||strength of thousands. If the party sells it in the nearest town, that will end the book, because that town will stab them in the back.||

[craggy thunder]

I mean if that is a literal, actual, written option in the AP

They have done a fucky wucky and been stabbed in the back

I am sure the next book has that option

[echo briar]

No, it’s not written down. The party is assumed to recognize it, but they need to read celestial to do so

[craggy thunder]

oof

[silver geyser]

Alright, my Kingmaker players are considering trying to make peace with the trolls.

So that will be fun to figure out!

[limber comet]

I mean

Let them, tbh

Diplomacy can still win the day

[upbeat ridge]

Does the book say this explicitly or are you just extrapolating this? /gen

||Maybe you can give them another way to recognize it?||

[echo briar]

||I mean, that town attacks them in the next chapter||

[upbeat ridge]

||eh, that’s fair. You might just have to hint in some form that they need comprehend language or smth||

[surreal basin]

What book is this in, I genuinely don’t remember this lol

[echo briar]

4

||the map to the golden city||

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah just tell them it’s a plot item and not to sell it

Does it even have a GP value?

[echo briar]

Yes

And it’s not even that much.

If you don’t speak celestial, there is nothing to differentiate it from common loot.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah just tell them it seems important

[limber comet]

Hrrrghghhh

I really wish pf2e homebrew kickstarters didnt have to get paired with 5e products just to sell effectively

[sacred bluff]

I feel this in my bones

[wary yoke]

If my group/team ever gets everything together for our setting to get published, one of the ideas I had is that it's published for multiple systems

PF2E and 5E, yes, but also 1E and Fantasycraft

[frozen hatch]

Jade Regent vs Serpent's Skull?

[surreal basin]

For what purpose

[light gyro]

party is one session off from the final chapter of SoT book 5 - ||and meeting old mage jatembe and the king of biting ants||

[rustic cape]

Yes this is good

[light gyro]

It'll knock the stuffing out of ya

[rustic cape]

Character background: I was trained as a monk by the Button Fellow

[limber comet]

i am so impatient to get my hands on divine mysteries raaaagh

[rustic cape]

Got any specific queries?

[limber comet]

it's one of those books that even if you dont play on golarion it's super useful for inspo

[limber comet]

blight oracle, giant gods, sakhil tormentors, and the (new) witch patrons

[frozen hatch]

I did a survey among some of the people in my group and those two APs are ranking amongst the highest in terms of interest, along with the 3rd party adventure Zeitgeist.

[limber comet]

sorry that's a lot

[rustic cape]

Ah! Yes I remember you asked about blight oracle before

[limber comet]

oooh

ohhhhh

OOOOOH

THATS SO COOL

I am a little sad the plague oracle from oracles+ is no longer valid but getting a disease oracle in official paizo books makes me ecstatic

[rustic cape]

For Witch patrons, we've got:

• the Choir Politic, a collective of spirits with divine spells and a hex that lets you share someone else's senses
• the Paradox of Opposites, some sort of yin-yang entity that grants divine spells and a hex that lets you do void damage to grant fast healing, along with allowing your familiar to inflict stupefied without a save
• the Unseen Broker, a pact-making being that wants you to represent it and grants occult spells alongside a hex that lets you broker a peace with painful consequences
• updated Mosquito Witch and Baba Yaga

[limber comet]

the broker seems to be an updated pact patron from..dark archive, i believe?

choir and paradox seem neat though

more divine witches are always welcome

[rustic cape]

Oh and broker can inflict flat-footed

Free stupefied with a duration seems like a winner when facing magic-users though

[surreal basin]

Are their focus spells any good?

[limber comet]

an anti-venom spell? wow

[rustic cape]

Time Oracle's first spell is kind of an ass debuff, its second is one-round Haste (improves to 4 targets at heightened 6, and its 3rd does okayish damage along with a potentially lengthy stupefied

[surreal basin]

Canker is pretty meh? Although that bleed can scale to decent levels
Purging toxins is good as a focus spells
Accelerated Decomp is bananas good

Like that’s incredible right

[rustic cape]

Yeah Accelerated Decomp is crazy strong

Although I have grown suspicious of void damage

Due to Too Many Undead

[surreal basin]

Oh that’s fair

I definitely think it helps balance it in this case

[rustic cape]

But divine list has a bunch of anti-undead stuff fwiw

So

[surreal basin]

Especially since I believe you would still give an undead the conditions

With Acc Decomp

[rustic cape]

It's not like you don't have good options

[limber comet]

i think undead would be anathema to the cycle of growth and decay anyways

If it were a corporeal undead i'd allow it to deal vitality damage instead because like

that logically makes sense, yk?

[eager mountain]

So starfinder isnt getting sketch covers

instead they get " Retro game covers"

[rustic cape]

Honestly rad

Especially for SF2e's somewhat more explicitly pulpy vibe

tbh I think Paizo's magazine-style layout works better with SF aesthetically

[limber comet]

rattling my cage in fury at the fact that I dont have divine mysteries yet

[errant roost]

-iconoclastic philospher, moments before embarking on a series of life choices terminating in the world's first "mega smiting"

[echo briar]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-second-edition-happy-birthday-remaster-bundle-from-paizo-inc-books

$888 of value for $35

[errant roost]

Is the beginner's box the only part of that which is from the remaster, or is humble just not displaying things clearly?

[true delta]

Player Core, GM Core and the GM's screen are all from the remaster.

[limber comet]

I dunno if anybody's mentioned this but

The green faith has a deity statblock in divine mysteries

[echo briar]

does it have spells now?

It's always had a stat block, but it was objectively worse than a normal god's because it granted you nothing

https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=298

no fount, no domains, just edicts and anathema

[rustic cape]

One sec

[limber comet]

Thank god for covenants

The new pantheons are cool too

[frank crystal]

I just had an idea for a new player

He’s playing an amnesiac exemplar from my setting’s age of heroes

And his heritage is dragonkin

But he doesn’t want to have always been one

And I have an idea for, A. how he’s in the present and B. How he’s a dragonkin

The player is a massive fan of dragon’s dogma

And I kinda wanna say that when he fell in battle back in the age of heroes, a dragon saw him, took his heart and replaced it with his own

[rustic cape]

It is unfortunate that the book still says a cleric needs to worship a specific member of a pantheon or covenant first and foremost. Like ... nobody's gonna pay attention to that, but the text is there and it shows a frustrating adherence to a kinda ugh tradition in elfgames

[solar tendon]

that feels so pointless too because mechanically a pantheon already does everything a god does

[warped orbit]

oh really?
I thought you totally could just worship a pantheon

because otherwise why would they have all the stuff for it

[limber comet]

Yeah that is a bit annoying

[frank crystal]

So like, compared to goblins and hobgoblins what are bugbear’s gimmick?

[limber comet]

Uh they're kinda

Non-existent in 2e

I mean we have stats for them but lore is basically non-existent

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

Well, guess that does kinda give me room to do whatever I want with them

[rustic cape]

You can worship a pantheon but you still have to choose a specific deity whose anathemas and whatnot IIRC you also get

It is so stupid

And even covenants they say you must worship some sort of specific being even though most covenants don't have gods in them

[limber comet]

I mean it makes sense for pantheons but it's also annoying yeah :/

[frank crystal]

Honestly I kinda disagree

If you wanted to worship a specific god

You can just do that

You select a pantheon to worship multiple,

[rustic cape]

Like this is a covenant

Who exactly is the specific being I'm supposed to be answerable to???!

[frank crystal]

It’s also like, perfectly mechanically fine

It has everything a cleric needs

[rustic cape]

Yep

It's frustrating because the whole point of pantheons and covenants as most readers will approach them is, "oh, I can finally get away from this idea of worshipping one particular patron and instead take a more genuinely polytheistic tack"

And I think in practice, outside of PFS games, that's how people are gonna play it

A lot of folks won't even read the section that says you're not supposed to do that

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s like, what 99% of people are gonna do

[rustic cape]

But the book itself says it's an extreme rarity needing special GM permission and just

why

[silver geyser]

If I'm going to be frank, I'm pretty sure most people are still going to covenant/pantheon hunt based on favored weapon and domains.

[warped orbit]

still very weird that they even do mechanical writeups for pantheons then if they aren't supposed to be used that way

[warped orbit]

tbh, that's a whole separate issue with how gods work in PF2

[rustic cape]

You're choosing to use that Pantheon's mechanics and worship it, but you still have to have a focus god

[rustic cape]

Especially since most people are not going to find the stats in the book

They're gonna find them on AoN or Pathbuilder

[frank crystal]

Yah

[rustic cape]

Divine Mysteries is great

Lovely book, tons of great art

Excellent coffee-table artifact

[warped orbit]

especially with the Divine Mysteries archetypes also increasing focus on god favored weapons now, I feel the whole thing of it is kinda flawed

and granted spells are also in a similar spot

[rustic cape]

I kinda think with favored weapon they could stand to give each god a few, at the very least

[solar tendon]

remaster is like the perfect time to make pantheons a full part of the setting wtf

[rustic cape]

Lemme find the specific text

[solar tendon]

distance yourself more from dnd

[warped orbit]

I saw a suggestion recently to make a particular weapon group favored, and name one or more particularly iconic weapons from it as examples

[solar tendon]

but yeah favoured weapons are weird cause it feels like they use the same ones so often

[rustic cape]

I like that

[solar tendon]

i think weapon group might be a bit far tbh

but its better than like

[frank crystal]

I’d just make ‘em like domains

[solar tendon]

every other deity being longsword or dager

[frank crystal]

Give you a list and potential alternates if you’re worshipping the god in a different manner

[warped orbit]

I just feel that if you tie yourself to specific weapons, it will always be something of a problem as the list keeps expanding

it's the same deal as old Rogue weapon prof

[rustic cape]

That's true

[solar tendon]

but the ones where the favoured weapon are actually relevant like desna and starknives I think weapon groups would lose a lot

and Id rather have a more diverse selection of other appropriate specific weapons than a generic weapon group

[silver geyser]

I don't get the pantheon desire myself.

[warped orbit]

yeah but it's also like
when would you ever actually want to use a dagger?

[silver geyser]

I like the focus a single deity gives as a RP hook.

[warped orbit]

which means if you choose Pharasma as your deity, you are just kinda shafted in terms of favored weapon

[solar tendon]

pharasma should get scythes

I decree it

[warped orbit]

especially since some of the new class archetypes now are favored weapon focused but don't all get the die boost for simple

[rustic cape]

D&D was always kind of weird about religion by presenting not-actually-polytheism, and Planescape kinda made the ways it was weird work with its particular cosmology, but ... I don't think it should be replicated!

[solar tendon]

yeah

theres no reason for golarion to be the aame

[frank crystal]

Also like, single god clerics can still exist

[silver geyser]

Oh, there's actually a reason Pharasma gets a dagger lore-wise. It's because it's also something you can use to help with the whole midwife thing.

[frank crystal]

Even in polytheistic religions irl people don’t always focus on every god

[solar tendon]

i mean yeah

which is also why pharasma should have dagger specifically and not like anything that happens to be put into the group

tbh I dont think its a fully solvable issue cause like yeah the weapon roster creep is a thing

[rustic cape]

Like okay, some people are gonna wanna take an "I have a relationship with this god" tack and that should be supported, but why not also acknowledge the ways real people frequently interact with multiple gods

[silver geyser]

Because that's not the Cleric thing.

[solar tendon]

but tbh I feel like the infinite growth model of an rpg is just something Ive soured on in general

[rustic cape]

I don't really see why it shouldn't be, though

"I'm a priest of the Godclaw" seems like a perfectly reasonable statement to me

[solar tendon]

just because you have a priest of torag doesnt mean you dont also need priests of the whole pantheon in balance

[silver geyser]

The godclaw is deranged.

[solar tendon]

and like, mechanically, theres already a reason to do so. pantheons and gods give different stuff.

[rustic cape]

It is! It's the kind of thing a bunch of asshole Hellknights would dream up as a theological basis for their Religion Of Order

[silver geyser]

I am 100% on team "The Godclaw exists entirely because Godclaw is a cool name"

[rustic cape]

So ... why not let there be clerics of that?

[silver geyser]

And also team "The Godclaw is Bad Lore"

[rustic cape]

Anyway the point is not the Godclaw

That's just an off-the-cuff pantheon

[silver geyser]

Also, I have bad tastes left in my mouth from the 3.5 days of "You can just worship a concept of a thing" for clerics.

[warped orbit]

I think it has intriguing implications

like, it shouldn't work
but it does anyway

[rustic cape]

Personally I liked clerics of ideals

[frank crystal]

Idk I don’t really mind that

[warped orbit]

why is that?
I think that's an interesting idea to explore

[silver geyser]

I loathe clerics of ideals entirely because it was never used for flavor.

[solar tendon]

also like what. youre saying theres no interesting roleplay potential in holding multiple deities in balance????

[silver geyser]

It was entirely "I want these good things to come together mechanically"

[frank crystal]

Especially since it actually allows for a very classic religious archetype, break off religions

[rustic cape]

I guess I don't really see an issue with that

[silver geyser]

Break off religions are a very different matter when you can speak with your god.

[rustic cape]

I will say there can be a fun to book-diving to find a perfect deity for your character both mechanically and philosophically

[warped orbit]

if you tie major mechanical impact to something nominally flavor based, that's kinda inevitable

[silver geyser]

Making Pantheons and Ideals a thing just makes the problem worse

[rustic cape]

I don't know that it does

I'd say it makes the problem exactly the same

[silver geyser]

It really doesn't.

[solar tendon]

ideals aren't even on the table here

[warped orbit]

Pantheons are not really any different from just adding more gods

[silver geyser]

Hey

[warped orbit]

so I don't really see the issue with that

[silver geyser]

Look

Can we not be rude at least?

[frank crystal]

Yah especially since like, in PF2E you’d probably still need to select from a list of options

[rustic cape]

Anyway, I apprectiate that they're not for you mourge, but mechanically in PF2e a pantheon is pretty much identical to a new god, and it's odd that they have special fluff rules surrounding that (which everyone is absolutely going to ignore)

[silver geyser]

I do not like Pantheons and the like because I enjoy the idea of focusing in on a deity, and because I have bad memories of "damn the lore, I'm doing what I want mechanically"

[rustic cape]

Alright, but tbc the pantheons in Divine Mysteries don't let you do that

[solar tendon]

prismatic ray really fucked up the lore yeah

[silver geyser]

... I didn't say the Prismatic Ray fucked up the lore.

And mechanically they didn't exist for a while.

[rustic cape]

Let's keep it chill if we can

[solar tendon]

you implied pantheons are like ideals, the problem you have with which is that they fuck up the lore

[silver geyser]

I am leaving this conversation.

[limber comet]

Yeesh

[solar tendon]

I should leave this topic, I'm sorry for making people uncomfortable

[rustic cape]

Let's move on

[limber comet]

I think that you should be able to worship a pantheon without necessarily being devoted to one specific god, but I also think you should have the option to devote yourself to a specific god of that pantheon

Anyways

Look at this cool battle harbinger

[frank crystal]

Why are their legs like 80% of their body?

[limber comet]

Elf body structure

It gets weird sometimes

[frank crystal]

I’m not sure I’ve seen an elf like that before

But fair enough

[limber comet]

They are canonically aliens :p

[warped orbit]

Battle Harbinger is conceptually very cool, kinda wish they'd gotten some more support for their battle auras

Some action compression to put them up, and some more options for scaling than just the one feat

[silver geyser]

You're getting fooled by the armor. Also:

[frank crystal]

I mean that feels far more proportionally normal

She’s just got long legs and a small body

That dude looks like he’s got massive legs and a halfling’s body

[silver geyser]

Again, it's the armor.

[frank crystal]

Fair yah

[limber comet]

It's pretty rad yeah, I do wish battle harbinger was a bit better but it's still pretty good

[frank crystal]

I think I saw the breast plate and thought that like, was where his waist ended

[warped orbit]

The breastplate ends above the waist, but it does look like the proportion are slightly off

You don't want your breastplate to end exactly at the waist, because then it'd impede your mobility more

[rustic cape]

Optical illusion due to the armor being kinda weird

[silver geyser]

I'm not sure that Breastplate ends

[warped orbit]

Hmm
It does look a little like it just connects to the faulds directly

Which is weird

But ehh

[limber comet]

I just thought the visual of a calistrian cleric in armor was cool :p

[rustic cape]

Honestly if we're complaining about armor in PF2e art Iomedae continues to take the cake for me personally

HOW DOES SHE BEND FORWARDS

[limber comet]

God magic

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rustic cape]

Ah see I've heard that argument

But as this art demonstrates

[frank crystal]

Liquid Metal armor

[rustic cape]

She had that armor before being a god

That breastplate would stab her right in the pelvis every time she bent forward

[limber comet]

I mean wasn't she also a herald of aroden?

[rustic cape]

(tbc this is mostly a source of comedy for me)

[frank crystal]

Yes

[limber comet]

Okay so

God magic still applies :3

[rustic cape]

+3 armor of non-pelvis stabbing

[limber comet]

She's the "crusade" god let her get away with armor crimes!!!

[frank crystal]

She has a very strong one

[rustic cape]

The armor just actually bends every time she leans forward or back

Not because it's magic

She's just that stronk

[frank crystal]

Are tar slimes a thing?

[limber comet]

Ye

Monster Core

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[frank crystal]

ok so looking at the living tar

its level 7 with 14 ac

but immune to crits

which feels weird because it does have 165 hp

like this feels like something thats super easy to crit but has a shit ton of HP but its immune to crits anywab

[tough barn]

that's just all oozes, really

important to remember things that proc on crits still happen when you crit them, though

so no double damage dice, but you DO get deadly/fatal extras

[frank crystal]

Oh neat

[frank crystal]

hmm, what would be some good actions for my automaton man made god of weapons?

[echo briar]

Like an npc?

It should be able to give its attacks literally any weapon trait.

[frank crystal]

Yes

[light gyro]

i dont like wall of stone. it is too good.

[rustic cape]

Wall of Force is crazy

Our party wizard in SoT basically has to keep disintegrate prepped at all times just for that

[light gyro]

Wall of force is immune to effects of its rank or lower that attempt to counteract it.
for what purpose

actually, you know what, that's still a marked improvement over wall of stone, which is immune to everything save counterspell

[rustic cape]

If you hit an object or force construct (such as a wall of force), it's destroyed with no save unless it's an artifact or similarly powerful.

From disintegrate

Disintegrate has a specific Wall of Force Clause

[light gyro]

both suck - they're no-save mass cc spells that ignore scaling (crit immunity). wall of stone is worse because its 'you can shape the path' rider means you can do some real horse shit with it in almost every arena

[frank crystal]

Is there a seal instinct now?

For animal barbarian

[light gyro]

there sure is - howl of the wild

[frank crystal]

Huh

I didn’t know

[wary yoke]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/528772767982682112/1307362733636849674/IMG_1073.png?ex=673a07ed&is=6738b66d&hm=fcbaf9ad2742aac9bc17445e06c5e6b474b5837d5010b72e78fa7816636d99d4&

[warped orbit]

casual neck cat

[wary yoke]

I was reading through Divine Mysteries and it took me a while to notice Kazutal has a whole-ass living jaguar on her shoulders and not a skin

[surreal basin]

It doesn’t ignore damage scaling but yes you can do some real horse shit with it

Although in a similar manner to wall of force it is countered by disintegrate

Just because disintigrate instantly destroys objects

[surreal basin]

Kitty!!!!

[frank crystal]

Ok here’s what I’ve got for my God of Weapons Automaton fight:

He gains immunity to the damage type he was last hit with

A large AOE centered on him

A shit ton of different attacks with different properties

Some kinda targeted AOE placed on a player that goes off at the start of his next turn

The ability to summon weak constructs (like clockwork door wardens)

His AC and saves will be a bit worse then a creature of the players level but he will have an enormous health pool and the immunity mechanic

[surreal basin]

That seems like a fun gimmick yeah

[frank crystal]

Their AC is 25 and their health pool is 275 for an encounter at level 7

[frank crystal]

whats a creature with a targeted circle aoe?

I need to steal their language from foundry

also a circle aoe originating from them

[light gyro]

"in an x-foot emanation from the creature" is the standard language iirc

[frank crystal]

oh yah I know the language I just want to steal the technical languagwe foundry uses for automation

[frank crystal]

hmm, is there anyway to make a line aoe that's thicker then 5 feet?

[turbid dagger]

I'm unsure of any way to expand existing lines, but there are abilities that make wider lines
For example: https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4286

[frank crystal]

Oh thanks

yah that worked great

here's the stat sheet

what do yall think?

[frank crystal]

Oh wait the annihilation cannon is supposed to do fire damage

Not electricity

Though actually, I may want it to both fire and electric

[warped orbit]

so Bloodrager can apparently just have basically infinite spell slots, by restoring them out of combat

by just harvesting your own blood or that of an ally

[solar storm]

Pathfinder is a funny game

[echo briar]

Why is a farmer, armed with a pitchfork, lvl 0, while a drunk farmer, armed only with a mug, level 2?

Alcohol, both in game and out of it, makes you a worse fighter, except here

[limber comet]

Storytelling reasons idk lol

[trail nova]

Caydean, I guess

[solar storm]

Stronger farmer

[limber comet]

Trained farmer

[echo briar]

Also, everyone knows that a acrobat is way better in a fight than a dancer

Also the kings adviser is a better combatant than the royal guard

In fact, the royal guard is only as strong as a common bandit

And weaker then a fence

Ah npc stat blocks, so useful, but utterly silly if you compare them

Despots are 2 levels higher than nobles, and so by the divine right of kinda should have the throne

[silver geyser]

Look, if you're going to engage in petty tyranny, I hope you know how to fight better.

Because it's going to come up.

[surreal basin]

I mean we can extend this to player characters too if we want

In what world is a bard able to punch better than a monk? The world where he’s 4 levels higher

Seeing the world and doing some stuff makes you better at literally everything

[frank crystal]

One of my players just rolled a nat 20 for a flat check for concealed

And a nat 1 for their actual attack

This is their third nat 1 this combat

[solar storm]

YEAHH

[frank crystal]

I LOVE GAMBLING

[worthy stump]

https://tenor.com/2Wez.gif

[vital kiln]

Is the nodachi worth getting at all over the naginata, beyond not being Uncommon like the naginata is? It does have a higher Deadly die but besides that, the naginata's cheaper and has Versatile (P), while the nodachi's twice as much and has Brace, which seems situational at best

That and the nodachi is Advanced while the naginata is just Martial

[turbid dagger]

Versatile P is basically never useful, and sword crit spec is better than polearm crit spec
But! Those are just points in its favor, the points against it are valid

[vital kiln]

True, so I guess Brace is more useful ultimately

Thanks Namo

[frank crystal]

My friend just had a great idea for making Musashi

Barrow’s Edge Exemplar with a fighting oar and katana

[vital kiln]

Oh that is a good idea

Could also do a katana/wakizashi combo

[frank crystal]

I mean yah but I feel like the fighting oar is a really fun way to play into the more mythological aspects of Musashi

Like his duel with Kojiro

Like yah Katana and Wakizashi is probably better for actually using what he probably used

[vital kiln]

True

Sorry

[frank crystal]

But in the mythology of Musashi, him bludgeoning Kojiro to death is a big thing

[frank crystal]

Don’t apologize

You didn’t do anything wrong

Also like, I’m really not gonna lie but I do kinda feel like exemplar’s vow of mortal defiance feels kinda weird flavor wise

Primarily the whole “you come to the only reasonable conclusion” part

Just because like, idk that feels sorta weirdly conclusive?

[wary yoke]

As someone who developed an entire philosophy of humanist dystheism for my setting, with different competing schools of thought, my thoughts were "fuck yes"

[frank crystal]

Idk, I don’t feel like Golarion is the kinda setting where that is the obvious conclusion to all that

Like the wars between heaven and hell do cause destruction yes but like, not because the celestials don’t care or are ambivalent to what happens to mortals

It’s because demons

[wary yoke]

And if they both fucked off, life would be even better

[frank crystal]

Like when the worst you can say about the good gods of Golarion is “they don’t do enough sometimes” and the evil gods are “they’ve wiped out multiple continents” that doesn’t feel equivalent

[wary yoke]

I mean the philosophy is clear that it is against any intervention

[frank crystal]

I mean like, would it though? Hell yah but like, if Sarenrae for example fucked off I’d imagine life getting demonstrably worse for the majority of the setting

[wary yoke]

No holy, no unholy, just mortality and it's consequences

Thats my takeaway from that feat

[solar storm]

I think this is kind of a war of immortals context specific thing

Since all hell breaks loose in the wake of Gorum’s death

[wary yoke]

It was also tailor made for me

[solar storm]

Since normally Golarion isn’t really a “good Outsiders are too XYZ to be good” setting so much

[turbid dagger]

The feat is writing from your perspective, not an omniscient one

[frank crystal]

I guess so yah

[frank crystal]

Also yah it is a bit worse since then

Idk I think this may just come from me playing WOTR and not liking Ember lol

I’m weary of any centrist on heaven and hell in Golarion

[wary yoke]

I guess I'm a sucker for the Laws of Mortality

[frank crystal]

Yah I’ve never been a law of mortality fan tbh

[turbid dagger]

I will admit
I just call them 'reddit atheists' on impulse
Likes, thats my name for the rahadoum people

[frank crystal]

Yah same lol

They do often come off that way

Maybe it’s just indicative of the writing I have seen from them not being the best they’ve got

But like, I’ve never found them compelling as an ideology

[turbid dagger]

It does not help that they are very cartoonish about it
Locking Little Mary Heal-Hands in the Atheist Dungeon

[trail nova]

Feels like a weird response to certain stereotypical LG Paladin archetype

[frank crystal]

Yah the fact they do punish people for like

Healing people

If they use divine power to do it is comically stupid

[trail nova]

Yeah, it feels really silly in a setting where the reaction of most good deities to Radhoum saying “fuck off” is “okay sure, except wait, how are you planning to keep people healthy” - It’s not like a lot of healers operate in a super transactional form, and the gods don’t depend on mortal worship in Golarion IIRC

[rapid wagon]

to be fair to this its always easier to point out when security fails than it is to note when it succeeds

[rapid wagon]

Not every disaster avoided is going to be a dramatic event of fame and glory, so go unremarked upon. That kind of thing

[frank crystal]

True yah

[surreal basin]

Man I’m unreasonably salty about how much worse piercing is than the other two physical types

It doesn’t actually matter but it’s annoying

[frank crystal]

I know piercing is worse then slashing but isn’t there only like, 20ish monsters where it actually matters?

[warped orbit]

it's fairly marginal yes

the biggest thing is stuff like zombies having slash weakness

[frank crystal]

Oh true yah

That does suck

With how common zombies are in any game with an undead villain

[surreal basin]

Yeah almost nothing has piercing weakness

[frank crystal]

What would have a piercing weakness?

[warped orbit]

there's a few fungi and like jellyfish I think?

[surreal basin]

Yeah

IMO oozes should be weak to piercing

[warped orbit]

tracks to me

[surreal basin]

Would also give it a good niche since there’s like

Almost nothing that’s actually good against oozes lol

[warped orbit]

ironically guns are pretty good against oozes

since you still get fatal and they're super easy to crit, even if it doesn't double

and Concussive so you avoid the immunity

[frank crystal]

That feels weird tbh

I feel like guns and projectiles in general should be like

Super ineffective

But also imo oozes shouldn’t be immune to bludgeoning anyway

[surreal basin]

I personally think nothing should be immune to crit :3

Even precision damage immunity makes me squint lol

[trail nova]

Frankly, crit immunity is less bad than precision damage immunity.

[warped orbit]

I do really dislike precision immunity

[trail nova]

Some people depend on crits more than others, but even the crit builds are generally benefiting from either higher accuracy or fatal/ect. Meanwhile, precision immunity is one of the worst parts of the 3.5e lineage.

[warped orbit]

I'm mostly okay with crit immunity in concept
but I haven't found oozes super engaging as fights so far

it just kinda turns into people slapping the shit out of them until they finally die

[solar storm]

Yeah crit immunity is fine but kind of bland so its a 2 tast thing

[rustic cape]

Especially at low levels when this matters most

[surreal basin]

My thing with precision immunity is just that like

It’s really poorly conceived

In theory it’s supposed to encourage precision classes to do something else during those fights

But those classes are 1000% designed around only dealing precision damage

That’s the only thing they do, is enable themselves to deal that damage

[solar storm]

Yeah there's not a lot of "alt actions" for the few classes which use precision a lot

[rustic cape]

Precision immunity fuckin sucks yeah

[silver geyser]

Oozes are boring until they bring Blights back.

[rustic cape]

And often the enemies with it are incorporeal

Which means you are Extra Screwed if you don’t have a ghost touch rune

[warped orbit]

ghost touch should remove precision immunity from ghosts IMO

would already be a big help in that regard

[rustic cape]

I agree

But it’s just annoying that it can be borderline mandatory, too

[solar storm]

I'm ok with ghost touch being borderline mandatory honestly

I've always liked intangible stuff being nastier in 3.pf/pf2

[warped orbit]

ghost touch at least is much easier to get, after the very early levels anyway

[rustic cape]

Yeah

What if like

[warped orbit]

ghostbane fulu, ghost oil, there's a few other consumables as well I think

[rustic cape]

All weapons get ghost touch at +2 or at greater striking or something

Just so that you can eventually stop worrying about it

I dunno

[solar storm]

I personally like it always being a thing

I don't like high level mechanical flattening that much

[rustic cape]

Fair

[solar storm]

This might just be a matter of taste thing

[rustic cape]

But I think there’s a counterargument that it causes mechanical flattening

[frank crystal]

And a lot of those alt actions don’t work on oozes anyway because they’re mindless

[rustic cape]

Because it prevents you from filling that tune slot with something weird and cool

[frank crystal]

Hope your CHA rogue likes not being able to intimidate

[rustic cape]

My GM removes ooze crit immunity and doubles their HP

[frank crystal]

Same

I remove crit and precision immunity

[rustic cape]

Because you’re basically gonna always crit as is

[frank crystal]

Makes them way more fun to fight

Potentially devastating with consume but easy to hit and even easier to chunk

[rustic cape]

So they become an opportunity to do fucking boatloads of damage

Rather than just kinda boring

It doesn’t change much but it’s a lot more fun

[solar storm]

I mean, it makes non-strike options worse too

[frank crystal]

Well yah but otherwise Oozes are just kinda big sacks of HP with one gimmick of consuming

Which like, other monsters do too anyway

[warped orbit]

there's enough cheap consumables to deal with it that it's fine IMO

like ghostbane fulu are pretty cheap and easy to use by being a free action talisman

[solar storm]

I don't think that really changes if they have 2x as much HP and no crit immunity

[frank crystal]

Oh I don’t 2X their health personally

[warped orbit]

a lot of oozes do also have garbage Reflex saves as well thankfully

[solar storm]

What I was saying is that if you make that change it also makes save effects worse against them

[frank crystal]

I just give them a smaller bump

[warped orbit]

and they are not immune to crit failing a save

which can actually be pretty decent

[frank crystal]

Also yah most oozes are terrible at saves too besides fortitude

[rustic cape]

I'll look into those at least

For my rogue

Finally got my hands on some amphisbaena handwraps :D

(We refluffed them as linnorm handwraps since this is Frozen Flame tho)

[warped orbit]

ghost oil is also an option, and fairly easy to apply in two actions if necessary
that one just has the slight issue of causing complications in mixed fights

[frank crystal]

Also gamers, what would be the best way to do a low income campaign? I wanna try running a game where the players are kinda struggling to make end’s meat most of the time

But this game requires so much gold for anything last level 1

[warped orbit]

do ABP

[frank crystal]

That’s the system that basically replaces runes right?

[rustic cape]

Yes

[frank crystal]

Alright sweet

[rustic cape]

As well as item bonuses to skills and other stuff

[solar storm]

Yes, which was their designated weakness :p

[rustic cape]

Sure, so this makes them fun for casters and martials to fight

I will testify that in my own experience at least, it's just gratifying to see Big Number

[frank crystal]

That’s also true

Big number fun

It’s why I love throwing zombies in

[rustic cape]

Even if big number doesn't actually mean anything because the HP pool is massive

[frank crystal]

Low AC and massive slashing weakness makes them very easy to get big number

[solar storm]

I don't really see how making casters worse against them makes it fun for them

[rustic cape]

Oh btw note that there are probably some item bonuses you still want to allow

Like ABP doesn't give you speed boosts in particular

So boots of bounding and the like are still reasonable

[rustic cape]

I guess my presumption is that casters already get to see big number against them, but I do take your point

[solar storm]

Yeah the speed boosts are still pretty nice

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[rustic cape]

My GM doesn't allow item skill boosts to stack with item potency boosts but they do allow both to apply on different skills

By default though foundry will turn all items boosts off if that's your platform

[frank crystal]

Ah so no magic items that give bonuses will work?

[warped orbit]

yes ABP as written removes all item bonuses

[rustic cape]

Yeah you'll need to manually add stuff

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2741&Redirected=1 ABP will cover basic runes, perception bonuses, bonuses to a few skills, and an apex ability boost

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[warped orbit]

I'm personally in favor of what people usually call automatic rune progression

[rustic cape]

But there are probably at least a few cases you should allow imo

[warped orbit]

where you just get fundamental runes automatically, and other items work as normal

[warped orbit]

yeah like alchemical items just not working in ABP as written

[frank crystal]

Hmm, I think I’ll just do fundamental rune progression then

Just so like, they can still use some magic items

[solar storm]

That's kinda common yeah

[rustic cape]

The way my GM does it is ABP + approximately half gold

[frank crystal]

Like stuff they find

[solar storm]

Though lots of items still work well with ABP

[rustic cape]

In terms of overall value

And yeah like, it doesn't shut off a flaming rune

[solar storm]

I'm playing in a high level full ABP game and we didn't have a lot of trouble spending all our money

[frank crystal]

I mean yah, but so many don’t I’m not sure I’m the biggest fan

[solar storm]

Yeah that's fair

I tend to like shopping and items so I don't usually use ABP when I run pf2

[rustic cape]

I would do what my GM does: allow item bonuses but don't let them stack with potency bonuses

[frank crystal]

Yah, and like I still want some shopping

[rustic cape]

That way ABP covers the essentials and you can distribute items that are cool

[frank crystal]

Just more in the vain of “do I buy this cool new sword or afford rent today”

[warped orbit]

that's also pretty good, yeah

[rustic cape]

Instead of items that are mandatory

Like ABP does sort of reveal what Paizo expects you have and by when

And there's a lot of it!

[warped orbit]

a variant I also considered myself, sparked by someone here
you still buy fundamental runes, but they become 'infused' into yourself, instead of etched into specific items

[rustic cape]

That would work

This can all be weird in some APs

[solar storm]

IME there is still plenty of shopping to be done with ABP

[rustic cape]

In other APs though (frozen flame) like

[solar storm]

But I am playing a Wizard and a lot of my item budget doesn't care about item bonuses

[rustic cape]

Jfc it's near mandatory

[frank crystal]

I once justified my players getting runes with a forge automaton that followed them around

[rustic cape]

Wealth by level is always a weird thing

[solar storm]

Since I'm loading up on door breacher wands and or other utility items

[frank crystal]

CQC wands

[solar storm]

Yeah

[rustic cape]

Because if you design a game around it that game sorta demands you be very scrupulous about handing out exactly the right stuff at exactly the right time

[solar storm]

It's a pretty ok damage spell but I like Disintegrate for being able to make a brand new 10x10 hole in almost anything which exists

[warped orbit]

In one game I'm in, I do spend a lot of our party budget on scrolls

[solar storm]

Yeah some random knock and lock and such scrolls are nice

[warped orbit]

mostly Slow, Synesthesia, high level Haste, and Heroism

[solar storm]

I'm actually Prescient Consumable-ing a scroll of Flense to help hide a body

[warped orbit]

lmao

[solar storm]

We, shockingly, couldn't find a better way

[warped orbit]

Prescient Consumable is pretty fun, I do also have it on my Investigator thanks to them getting the improved version via feat

can't wait to get to Implausible Purchase

[solar storm]

Exactly yeah

[surreal basin]

And just like

Turn off traps

Hazard begone

[solar storm]

True, there aren’t that many traps which keep working with a huge hole through em

[worthy stump]

the devious trapmaker, putting a magma reservatory behind the hazard just in case this happened-

[echo briar]

If you disintegrate a trap, the soul of the trap can’t go to the afterlife, so you end up with a trap haunt.

[echo briar]

In narrative, what is the difference between a circumstance bonus/penalty and a status bonus/penalty? Why does a feint and a dirty trick stack, but not a feint and flanking?

[upbeat ridge]

Im suprised they didn’t give a special character option for former clerics of gorum? Unless im missing something

[limber comet]

Well because they'd have to do the same for Aroden

[solar storm]

Just switch to Razmir :^)

[limber comet]

It's pretty explicitly said that divine power usually fades when a god outright dies

Their worship stats are still listed in the book but in canon they are DEAD

And it's EXTREMELY rare for a follower to still be able to channel the dead god's power in the same way

Also the sarcastic answer is to just play a worshipper of Genzaeri

:p

Or that new sentient sword god

Also just worship Genzaeri anyways

She's a hobgoblin goddess of strategy and warfare that originated in Rakh Lo

[frank crystal]

I think dead gods should still be able to give divine power, besides Aroden

[wary yoke]

Yeah, I’m surprised there isn’t a a background or two for former followers at least

[limber comet]

Most of their power is subsumed by other gods

Or mortals

[frank crystal]

Yah but I also just think Aroden should be uniquely terrible as a god

If that means letting Gorum still hand out divine power I’m good with that

[limber comet]

He is uniquely terrible

He didn't die in a blaze of glory, or anything cool

Poof

Like dust in the breeze

Almost every other dead god here has an explanation as to why they're dead, with a cool battle usually being the result

Aroden just fucked off

[limber comet]

Well, the team+ core book vote has ended

Magic+ won

Vancian casting go bye bye

[upbeat ridge]

If any homebrewers are to take spell slots out and make the system truly attritionless then I trust teams+ to do it right

[rustic cape]

I like spell slots a bit, I couldn't tell you why -_-

[frank crystal]

How big are sprights exactly?

[rustic cape]

Spritely

[frank crystal]

Of course

Just wondering because one of my players is thinking of making a giant barb sprite

[rustic cape]

ehehehehe

[surreal basin]

3 apples

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[frank crystal]

I’m starting a new campaign soon and I think I’m gonna do a 1-5 “the party is broke and desperate, competes with a local crime boss for some valuable artifact”

[echo briar]

I am an exemplar with barrows edge. I attack a target with 2 hp, and roll a 30 on my damage. do I heal 1 or 15 damage?

[frank crystal]

I’d say 15

Primarily because healing so little because of overkill is very feels bad

“You regain Hit Points equal to half the damage dealt.”

Also yah I feel like with how this game does have negative HP, though it does come up very rarely

I’d say it heals 15

[frank crystal]

Ok I’ve got a few ideas for competing factions for whatever the prize is:

Criminal syndicate supplying necromancers with corpses

Local corrupt head of the guard

Demonic cult

A group of rangers

Some fellow adventurers

The setting is probably gonna be a city built on top of a large number of ruins and former cities deep into the north of the continent

It’s a giant city but it’s also cold and miserable

Though I’m kinda wondering what I should make the thing they’re all fighting over

I sorta want them to all seek it for different reasons as well

[frank crystal]

Hmm, what would be a good like, not dragon but still dangerous mythical lizard for my party to fight and kill and not be paid for?

[thorny berry]

one third of a chimera

[echo briar]

what level are they?

It's very high level, but the thruneosaurus rex is very fun

[frank crystal]

1

[echo briar]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=578

[frank crystal]

That’s fun

[echo briar]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=3271

[frank crystal]

I like that

[frank crystal]

Also one of my players suggested this when I was explaining the premise of the setting

But the city is gonna have a giant frost punk style central furnace that all the heat is gonna come from

And part of the climax of this arc is that it’ll be broken right before a gigantic blizzard hits

[worthy stump]

there are some low level drakes, depending on how pedantic you're willing to be about what is and isn't a dragon

[frank crystal]

Drakes are kinda the default not*dragons to me

[rustic cape]

Bag of Holding as a monster

[frozen hatch]

Anyone ever read Dungeon Crawler Carl? Listening to the series again and it is making me curious if 1e (or maybe ffd20) might be a good system to try and run a campaign inspired by the series.

[echo briar]

Hot take, instead of a very small resistance, armor specialization should gives attacks against you a crit fail effect.

[rustic cape]

... interesting

I kinda like it

[echo briar]

Melee attacks rebound on plate, get stuck in composite, and splinter off of wood.

I am not sure what chain and leather would do

[rustic cape]

I would think get stuck in wood

That was one of the big features of wooden shields and such

It's a nasty thing to lose your sword because it got stuck in some jerk's shield and he yanked it away from you

[limber comet]

Personally I'm partial to the Bagman from 5e ravenloft

[vital kiln]

Is Brace decent on a Champion? I swear I remember something about Champions getting some use out of prepared attacks.

[warped orbit]

uhh
well it would also apply to your Retributive Strike if you're a Paladin I guess

so they can probably use it somewhat decently?

[frank crystal]

Is there a feat for like, throwing stuff at people?

[turbid dagger]

There are multiple throwing related feats, anything in specific?

[frank crystal]

Like throwing a big rock at someone

Like just grabbing something from around you and throwing it

[turbid dagger]

Its a barbarian feat, lemme find it

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5818

Its sorta bad

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[frank crystal]

Unfortunate

[surreal basin]

I guess this is okay if like

You don’t want to invest much in throwing, you was want the option to make a ranged attack

[frank crystal]

It being 2 actions kinda blows

[turbid dagger]

A deeply silly idea I have is
Dexemplar with dedication barb????
Humble strikes makes it d12
But
That's more a silly trick than a build

[clever cobalt]

"Gnarp" is a Kholo word

[limber comet]

Oh yeah

Supposedly there's gonna be an "Impossible" announcement on Dec. 4th from Paizo

[echo briar]

DND colab

Alternatively, starfinder devs went too far and actually created cold fusion

[limber comet]

Someone said Lost Omens: Impossible Kingdoms of Vudra

[echo briar]

They just did an impossible lands book (and I refuse to believe there are two, completely unrelated regions with the word “impossible” in the name)

[limber comet]

They are related, actually

[echo briar]

Could be an impossible lands AP, but we have a lot of APs already announced

[limber comet]

Jalmeray is in-between Vudra and Nex/Geb

[echo briar]

Yea, and I don’t think they would make that when Arcadia is still bookless

They already did that area

[solar storm]

Vudra’s never been covered

[limber comet]

Yeah

I personally would've preferred Arcadia but also like

Vudra's pretty cool too

Not to mention 3 major Vudra gods feature in Divine Mysteries

Then again, so do some Arcadian gods

Who knows

[clever cobalt]

CAsmaron in general has never been covered

which I find odd

Cause at least Arcadia is across an ocean

while Casmaron is right next to Avistan

[trail nova]

Yeah. Casmaron is super weird not being covered because it's a lot more relevant to the core of the setting.

Taldor, Quadira, and Jalmaray in particular

[clever cobalt]

yeah

lots of plot relevant entities in Casmaron as well

like Vudra and the Kelesh Empire

who have never been really elaborated on much directly despite having a heavy influence on the setting of the Inner Sea

[solar storm]

Casmaron being the biggest continent and having no lore is weird yeah

[clever cobalt]

yeah

[solar storm]

I think it’s the biggest anyway

[echo briar]

What else would be impossible that does not have the word impossible in the name?

[solar storm]

There’s a lot of big continents

[clever cobalt]

it's at least as big as Avistan

[echo briar]

A crossover is up there.

[clever cobalt]

though iirc it's basically the Middle East/Western Asian continent

[clever cobalt]

and yeah, though it would be varying degrees of odd depending on who

[solar storm]

Aroden sourcebook

[trail nova]

Mad science book? Announcing a return to the PF 1e ruleset?

[clever cobalt]

WotC buying Paizo

[trail nova]

Pazio buying WotC

[solar storm]

Paizo buying WotC

Jinx!

[clever cobalt]

They're making Pathfinder 2e real

get ready

alternatively

Dark Tapestry book

which I genuinely want at some point but idk if it warratns a whole book

I like the Dark Tapestry

[trail nova]

Oh damn, I would love that. I suspect the best time for it would be right around the Starfinder release.

[clever cobalt]

yeah

I also kinda want some DT related Player Options

beyond Gods

stuff like Ancestries and Heritages

[echo briar]

Pathfinder tv show

[clever cobalt]

by the people behind Arcane

[echo briar]

What if it’s a typo, and it’s meant to say “impassable”? What if they are bringing elephants over the alps?

[clever cobalt]

then you should start running

[trail nova]

Or after Starfinder finds its legs. (Which hopefully doesn't take too long, but I'm worried between Techno and Mechanic not being in core, and a few parts of PF 2e that I'm not sure are fitting, like the spell lists.)

[clever cobalt]

where is this from btw?

I kinda wanna play Abomination Vaults again

I do love a good dungeon crawl

huh

https://paizo.com/products/btq07fl9?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-608-Upon-Wheels-and-Rime

There's gonna be a Train PFS Module about a Train and Railway in Irrisen

[echo briar]

What creature would try and curse mortals, but be so misinformed about what mortals consider “bad” that it accidentally blesses them?

[clever cobalt]

Bespoke Design

[clever cobalt]

I wanna say some variety of FAe, but the exact details idk

[limber comet]

Newest blogpost involving PaxAus, at the bottom

[clever cobalt]

ye I found it

thanks though

[limber comet]

Np

[eager mountain]

thata starfinder design ?

[echo briar]

New champion feat. Desperate prayer but worse, and lvl 18

Why is it 1/day?

It’s lvl 18, make it 1/minute or even 1/round

[solar storm]

What’s the significance of the weird grasshopper head eating a coin symbol?

[warped orbit]

Wait it even requires Desperate Prayer

How weird

[clever cobalt]

Nope, Pathfinder

[solar storm]

There's some extremely sick spreads in LODM

[clever cobalt]

LODM?

[solar storm]

Lost Omens Divine Mysteries

[clever cobalt]

Ah

Yeah there are

[solar storm]

lmfao

[warped orbit]

The Razmir Priest archetype is both pretty funny and also quite good

[frank crystal]

What are Razmir priests?

[solar storm]

fakers

It's an archetype which makes you a counterfeit cleric

You can give out THP (and it's the subreddit's new thing to bitch about du jour), sort-of-clear conditions and get some very limited spellcasting

You're also really good at lying

[frank crystal]

Ohhhh

What THP?

[solar storm]

And you can spec into Cleric without fulfilling then ormal requirements

[frank crystal]

Oh

It’s Temporary hit points that can actually bring someone up basically

[warped orbit]

It's mostly just free long duration tHP

So you can just have it on everyone all the time

[solar storm]

I'm not passing judgement on it yet I'm waiting for it to percolate outside of /r/pathfinder2e haha

I fuckin hate that subreddit these days

[frank crystal]

Most TTRPG subreddits are pretty bad imo

[warped orbit]

I think it's quite strong, but not thaaat broken

[solar storm]

Yeah I think it's pretty potent

[echo briar]

it lasting 24 hours is the only problem

[solar storm]

THP in general is a sort of weird design space in PF2

[frank crystal]

Also I assume if you’re a cleric you can’t take this archetype?

[warped orbit]

Yeah it lets you go into Cleric archetype, but if you do your casting stat is Charisma and your spells are Occult instead of Divine tagged

[solar storm]

That's allowed

[warped orbit]

(You still choose from the Divine list, they just count as occult)

[solar storm]

The prereqs are just training in crafting and deception

[solar storm]

Yeah its... unusual

Which fits pretty well because Razmir sure is

[frank crystal]

Oh neat

[clever cobalt]

I think the subreddit also ignores the fact you need to be a Razmiran Priest

though I'm sure people will disregard taht aspect

[solar storm]

You don't mechanically but yeah you are a weird shyster narratively

[warped orbit]

Ehh, I'm not big on flavor restrictions tbh

[clever cobalt]

fair

but yeah

[warped orbit]

I do think it is quite above curve for most dedications especially
Which, you could also argue that most dedications kinda suck, and I would probably agree

[solar storm]

Also Razmir is a real god now

Passed the starstone test

[warped orbit]

I've seen people say that segment is in universe propaganda

[echo briar]

Read the source of that claim

[clever cobalt]

cauyse it is

it literally ends with "excerpt from the Razmiran Holy Book"

[solar storm]

Nope it's not it's not a sidebar or anything its just true and indisputable

[solar storm]

fake news

[frank crystal]

All hail Razmir

He will usher us into a new era

[frank crystal]

This post was fact checked by true Razmirian Clerics as true

[solar storm]

If there isn't a template for that I gotta make one

[frank crystal]

Please do

[echo briar]

Also, isn’t Razmir a wizard? Why does he grant occult spells?

[clever cobalt]

I think it being occult is more of a vibe thing

as iirc occult is like, related to the mind and perception and whatnot

[echo briar]

so is arcane

[warped orbit]

placebo divine stuff working as occult makes sense

[clever cobalt]

So people believing he's a god is what gives them power, not Razmir himself

yeah

[solar storm]

Bonus

[wary yoke]

I remember using the Razmiran False Focus feat in 1E to just play a religious wizard

[frank crystal]

Now this is the act of a real Ramiran follower

[vital kiln]

Is the difference between Basic and Expert training in weapons particularly huge?

[frank crystal]

Very

[vital kiln]

I believe it's a +2 difference to your to-hit values, which doesn't really seem like

TERRIFICALLY massive

[frank crystal]

It is

The game really expects you to have those profiencies at the levels you get them

So there’s generally big bumps in AC of enemies at those levels

As well due to how your hit chance is also your crit chance it increases your average per round damage a lot

[solar storm]

There's a pretty good video breakdown on it

https://youtu.be/1JhgCPQ9MGg

The short version of it is that bonuses are deceptively powerful in PF2 because they change both success and crit success odds

So +2 is both bigger than it sounds in a vacuum and more valuable than a +2 in D&D

[warped orbit]

higher prof is also very relevant for being a bonus you can't really get otherwise

and stacks with all other bonuses

but also just the crit increase is quite significant

in general, numerical bonuses are quite potent because of that same reason
especially when you stack them together

people also sometimes think "oh, but if my bonus is already so high, how much is +1 gonna do really"
which overlooks that the level adding to your bonus is basically already factored into everything

a +1 has the same potency at any level

[limber comet]

Extremely funny thank you

[echo briar]

Apparently, one of the new orc gods is very close with Torag, a fact that is controversial with both orcs and dwarves.

[limber comet]

Yeah! The same orc god also replaced Torag in the Godclaw

Uirch ? I think

[limber comet]

He also saved Torag's life from an assassination by Grask, another new god

[frank crystal]

Are hags immortal in Golarion?

[silver geyser]

No, they're quite killable

[frank crystal]

Oh I meant like

Unaging

Like can one die from old age

[silver geyser]

Unclear

[vital kiln]

I see

So the difference between a Martial/Simple weapon and an Advanced weapon on a level 1 fighter is actually quite vast?

[frank crystal]

Yah

[silver geyser]

Yes, it's quite noticeable

[limber comet]

Mmmaybe? I don't know, that's a really good question

[echo briar]

disappearance makes the target "count as invisible". Does this mean that see the unseen lets you see though it?

[warped orbit]

advanced weapons are in a pretty awkward spot

because it's almost never worth it to take a proficiency decrease for what you gain from an advanced weapon
so in practice you only use them when you can make them scale as martial

[vital kiln]

Makes sense

[warped orbit]

usually people try and get advanced access via ancestry feats, or the Human feat Unconventional Weaponry

[vital kiln]

Yeah, yeah, like how Hungerseed lets you treat a nodachi as Simple

[warped orbit]

there's also class feats to get full advanced proficiency
Fighter and Gunslinger have it
Archer and Mauler as well

[vital kiln]

I assume gunslinger's is limited to firearms

[echo briar]

and crossbows.

[warped orbit]

Fighter gets it within their specialized group
Gunslinger for guns and crossbows
Archer for all advanced ranged weapons IIRC
Mauler for advanced 2h weapons

[surreal basin]

The reason that it’s like this is presumably because it stacks with desperate prayer

Essentially giving you 5 focus points in a single combat

[light gyro]

strength of thousands - party are looking for high level items to buy - joked about finding 16th level bug spray.

...you'll never fucking guess.

[surreal basin]

Actually would be crazy useful

[light gyro]

they've got an artificer so they'll be loaded with the stuff

[surreal basin]

Artificer?

[light gyro]

alchemist! wrong word

[surreal basin]

[warped orbit]

a funny high level one is also
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1969

just slowly inoculate yourself against all diseases

[rustic cape]

Pretty expensive but

[thorny berry]

Average undead adventurer does not have immunity to diseases, vaccines georg is an outlier and should not be counted

[echo briar]

Do female Kollo have sudo penises?

This is sadly a very relevant question

[solar storm]

I don’t think it is ngl

[turbid dagger]

PF2e isn't interested in asking OR answering these questions, and neither should you be

[echo briar]

My players are persistent. I am trying to defuse it. It is going poorly

[vital kiln]

Tell them to knock it the fuck off

[surreal basin]

Probably though yes

Though I have to admit I’m interested in what the sociological repercussions would be
Like, would they have a more fluid interpretation of gender? None at all?

That would actually be really interesting if the majority of gnolls were agender or something

[unborn rain]

As the female are larger and stronger on average than the males, they probably would have them

[rustic cape]

I feel like in addition to the Vampire's players, this is also a topic we could stand to drop

[errant roost]

Yeah, at the end of the day if a player at the table is being made uncomfortable by the bit, that's a good time to lay off it. And as the GM, you're a player at the table.

[echo briar]

Dahak had the new anathema of “prevent the destruction of things that can not be saved”, but if you prevent its destruction, it could be saved.

Is there any way to break this anathema?

[fast hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805880814813970433/1309124404067963020/0syu0uw7f2ld1.png?ex=6740709c&is=673f1f1c&hm=2ad4bafc8c9ac8880b0aac54032faf9340ce0142d8d50ea3ada944f2b42165c7&

[rustic cape]

Try and fail

Or prevent the immediate destruction of something that cannot be saved in the longer term

I don't think you're meant to read these as legalistic tenets

Spirit of the law

[solar storm]

Or prevent the destruction of something which is beyond saving

[rustic cape]

Like Dahak patiently awaits the day he can slay Apsu

That's the context, imo

He's a destroyer deity, but a destroyer deity who believes there is a place and a time

[errant roost]

is that save as in "ensure safety" or save as in "redeem"? if the latter, you could break it by stopping the execution of an evildoer who (Dahak thinks) will never repent or make amends.

[wary yoke]

I realized I might be able to make an approximation of a Bionicle Toa by going FA Kineticist, but I'm disappointed that the multiclass archetype is kinda limited

And going the other way, Kineticist with FA something (probably fighter) is also underwhelming

[frank crystal]

I’m gonna be honest after running a lot of them I really don’t think PL+4 bosses work super well

At least without modification

Primarily lowering their saves and AC so the players can actually like, do something to them

Instead of just banking on a couple lucky Nat 20s

Or nat 1s

[turbid dagger]

So I have a question most silly
What are some ways to have a permanent, large aura that deals electricity damage, where the actual amount of damage doesn't matter
Like, it could be aura 60 for 3 lightning damage
https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4219 This seems like my best option thusfar

(I am trying to proc this as often as possible for a deeply weird pvp tournament)

[frank crystal]

Do you have multiple characters to work with?

[turbid dagger]

You can pick from an array of team comps
I am thinking a single level 20, as well as the level 20 celestial buddy every team gets (in this case, a yamaraj)

[frank crystal]

I see

[echo briar]

do you think an extraplanetary AP is possible? Like one that takes place entirely on Akiton or something?

[worthy stump]

I could see that. There’s been a few where you spend whole books in other planets, but none that are entirely outside Golarion. Don’t think it’s likely to happen anytime soon, since most of the lorebase for PF is in Golarion, but I’d be interested

[light gyro]

As soon as starfinder gives us more details (rules, price) around thasteron an akiton campaign should be easy enough

[limber comet]

I would kill for a Age of Lost Omens era Castrovel AP

Just set entirely on Castrovel

[eager mountain]

https://bsky.app/profile/pierogipie.bsky.social/post/3lbgxhkf2ak2o

PierogiPie (@pierogipie.bsky.social)

Lamashtu the Sicko
Meme commission for ElectricGiga

Bluesky · Nov 21, 2024, 7:38 AM

[echo briar]

wait, Paizo has said they are announcing something "impossible" in December. A book about the other planets in pathfinder? I think that fits the "impossible" moniker, and it would tie into starfinder very nicely

[errant roost]

they're doing a new impossible burger

"impossible" is an interesting word choice. Something on the sci-fi/modern/less fantasy edge could definitely fit, although those all kind of exist in Pathfinder already, don't they?

it kind of makes me think of comic books, for some reason, but a superhero gameline feels like a really bad fit...

[echo briar]

Are the books already vegan? I don't know enough about book printing to know if some animal products are required. Getting rid of that that stuff could fit the bill

[errant roost]

https://vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/questions/1189/book-manufacturing-what-to-look-out-for probably, unless you bought a fancy copy with a leather cover

[wary yoke]

... Isn't there a whole section of Golarion called the Impossible Lands?