Pathfinder

[rustic cape]

It's my first time playing a caster in PF2e actually

And I'm worried I'll be a bit spoiled for choice playing others in the future >_>

Liturgist and Medium do seem to be the winning subclasses by a country mile tho

[clever cobalt]

New weapons btw

[thorny berry]

squints

Besties I think we might be scraping the barrel a bit at this point

Perhaps there are Enough weapons

[clever cobalt]

no such thing

[echo briar]

wait, they finally did it, a simple axe

[clever cobalt]

ye

[thorny berry]

Apologies please enjoy your combat oar and/or fishing pole

[echo briar]

what is the "see description" on the fishing pole?

[clever cobalt]

which can be upgraded with Exemplar or Rogue

[echo briar]

well, with exemplar it is just a battle axe

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[thorny berry]

Rune potency to fishing

Incredible

[clever cobalt]

Exemplar with the Combat Fishing rod

[thorny berry]

H-

How did the war of the gods supplement end up being the place for this

[clever cobalt]

serendipity

[wary yoke]

I am angry at how it turns out the best class for the character I've been trying to convert to 2E is actually just Exemplar

[solar storm]

haha

[wary yoke]

Nobody told me it literally has a "fuck the gods" level 1 feat!

[surreal basin]

Wow exemplar archetype is REALLY good

[solar storm]

Yeah it seems... really cranked

I didn't expect a full-blooded Ikon

[surreal basin]

I kinda like it tho

I appreciate that it’s not anemic

[solar storm]

Yeah I'd rather this than something like Summoner where you just kinda... don't take it

[surreal basin]

It’s really cool if you want like…. Your character to be based around like

A special item

Conceptually

Like oh this is my father’s super awesome magic sword

[warped orbit]

I do think it's too powerful

it gives too much for almost no investment

[surreal basin]

Idk how you’d change it without making it terrible though

I guess you could make you not get the Immanence?

[warped orbit]

• permanent +2 damage per weapon die
• permanent +1 status bonus on attacks aura
• permanent -1 circumstance on attacks against you
• permanent +1 AC aura
  for just a few
  and that's not getting into the transendence either

[warped orbit]

just the transcendence would be better yeah

[surreal basin]

Maybe a higher level feat to get access to the immanence

?

[warped orbit]

like I had honestly assumed it would be like, get an ikon with no abilities
and then just getting either of the abilities be a feat

like Thaum dedication

but I dunno

immanences are just pretty strong to just get for one feat
and they have basically no cost unless you use the transcendence

[surreal basin]

Oh bloodrager is awesome

[limber comet]

Bloodrager is extremely rad yeah

I know people were upset that it changed from 1e's sorc×barb mashup but I'm a sucker for a good hemomancer

[thorny berry]

Thaum at least pays two feats for a basic level implement iirc

[rustic cape]

Women want him, fish fear him

[surreal basin]

I really like uhhh

That Paizo seems to have most gone with bold design choices for this book

Rather than playing it safe

It’s definitely my preferred like

Design mode

[rustic cape]

I have previously compared Exemplar and Animist to Incarnate and Binder from way back in 3.5 and I think, at the very least, they embody the same sort of "playing with mechanics" that a lot of weird 3.5 one-off subsystems did

[errant roost]

👀 binder you say

[surreal basin]

Huh

So mythic points can reroll something at mythic prof

With seemingly no restriction

But your calling gives you the ability to…. Spend a point to roll a check with mythic prof

Which seems like a strictly worse usage than trying it without mythic prof first just to see if you like, nat 20

Thinking about removing the mythic reroll, and then using that to keep hero points for my group who really doesn’t like that mythic points replace them

[rustic cape]

At the beginning of your daily prep you attach a selection of quasi-deific spirits to yourself which grant you weird powers, and you can add more of them to yourself as you level.

[solar storm]

I concur

[carmine egret]

Gon Freecss is online

[upbeat ridge]

i NEED to make a build around this

[surreal basin]

Mythic is incredibly based

[echo briar]

So apparently mythic NPCs can add treat all saves as if the effect had incapacitation

That seems like a bad idea, especially as it’s actually better than incapacitation because it works on higher level effects

[warped orbit]

that seems agonizing if you rely on saves

[echo briar]

Yep

There is a way to add mythic proficiency to your save dc, but that’s at most a +8, at worst a +2, and the resilience is effectively a +10

The gm has to take it for each save separately, but it still seems like a bad idea

But there needs to be a gentleman’s agreement for gms to not give it to every save

[frank crystal]

Oh that sounds, very unfun

I assume mythic NPCs are still like, meant to be fought?

Because that makes it sound like they’re not designed to be beaten

[echo briar]

Yea, one suggestion is that it’s meant to be ignored by mythic characters like other abilities like it, but that would need errata

[solar storm]

Yeah definitely

I’d need to see how it works out in practice

My gut feeling is that it’s intended to make mythic spellcasting cause fewer crit fails

[warped orbit]

That does also run into the whole bit of the Mythic bonus getting weaker as you go up in level

Since your natural prof 'catches up'

[surreal basin]

I don’t think that’s a huge deal personally but yes don’t take it for every save

I expect mythic to start edging into the realm of “we aren’t gonna systemize you not being a cunt”

[solar storm]

I’m looking through the book and I think if there’s a typo it’s that simply being a mythic creature shouldn’t bypass Mythic Resistance

Which makes Mythics much more equal opportunity tough customers

(Which makes sense given Mythic is worth approx 2 levels)

The book has some weird editing issues for sure

Mythic Resistance does at least 3 things depending on where you find it

I think the Weaver of Web’s version is the correct one

Since otherwise this feat and some of the encounter design guidance doesn’t really make sense

[eager mountain]

https://bsyy.app/profile/caiosnart.bsky.social/post/3l55tuzijqc2e

Dromada are such silly guys

[wooden orbit]

What this

[eager mountain]

which one ?

[wooden orbit]

The Stewards

[eager mountain]

oh uhhh the stewards are a thing in starfinder

think of themmmm a spy dipliomats

 They are both warriors who pursue criminals across the Pact Worlds, and diplomats who negotiate agreements to maintain the often complex and fraught relationships between member worlds.
 They prefer the use of soft power over military might in an effort to maintain the fragile equilibrium of the Pact Worlds.```

think like..... uhhhh spectres , if they were a little less gungho

thier described as " warrior diplomats "

[wooden orbit]

That sounds neat o.o

[eager mountain]

Thier one of the factions in starfinder

Also have thier own archetype

Kinda in the same way you can be a starfinder agent

Uhhh there’s also Hellknights

Knights of golarion/ iomedaen fleet

Xeno-wardens

Free captains

The sky fire legion

Annnnd some others I’m forgetting

Hell knights are a facist paramilitary organization

Knights of golarion are space paladins

Xenowardens are like… space druids

Free captains are pirates

Uhhhhh I think sky fire are mercs

Abadar corp: like the bigggest corporation in the galaxy .... runs on the ethos of the god Abadar, god of trade and civilization.

Android Abolitionist front: what it sounds like, they got an underground railroad and everything

aspis consortium: antagonist to the starfinder society , thier shady explorers and shit like that. like an indana jones villian

The augmented i dont know shit about

Corpse fleet: seperatist undead supremecist paramilitary faction of Eox. think a ultranationalist militia, but undead

cult of the devourer : cult to the god of destruction, always antagonists.

Free captains: Pirate coalition, could be an atagonist, could be afriend

Golden league ....SPACE MAFIA

Knights of golarian are literally just space knights out there fighting evil

The pact worlds of aliens is like the UN

Skyfire actualy are mercs also knowna s the dragon leigion.

The unseen are like .....all conspiracy aliens and shit

like the Gray , The mii go , other shit like that

used to be reptoids, but they got removed becuase anti-semetic conspiracy shit irl

but yeah the Unseen are less a solid faction and just various conspiracies

and last but not least, the XenoWardens

like actualy space druids

they fly around in fuckin tree space ships

real Hyprion moment

if anyone knows what i mean

[wary yoke]

Would the Bloodrager give archetype casting the rage trait?

Wait, finding some confusing stuff

One of the archetype feats calls for you to be legendary in Occultism or Religion, depending on your chosen tradition, but offers Arcana and Religion for arcane and divine respectively, with no other choices.

[rustic cape]

Typo, perhaps?

[wary yoke]

Probably

[solar storm]

This book is kinda messy I think

There’s so much mechanical content though

[rustic cape]

Tbh I think Paizo needs more edit passes on a lot of books

[surreal basin]

Yeah absolutely

gestures at live wire

[echo briar]

I think that was actually errataed

[rustic cape]

I don't even mean content, I mean just looking for inconsistencies and typos

[surreal basin]

Oh I mean that’s fair

IMO live wire IS a typo

[turbid dagger]

I thought about this, but since its a temporary attack granted by a stance, do you think you'd be able to apply Modifications too it? Its very weird, 'the dudes who made Inventor didn't know this would eventually exist' territory

[surreal basin]

So

Having thought about it it

You absolutely can’t use any simple weapon damage increase on the haft for a couple of reasons

Either: it’s part of the original weapon and thus isn’t actually a simple weapon
Or it’s a separate weapon called “haft” which no god has as their divine weapon, and which can’t be made as your innovation because it’s…. Not real

[errant roost]

hafts aren't real, but can hurt you

[turbid dagger]

In my mind, Humble Strikes absolutely works
Off exemplar
Which applies to all simple weapons flat out

But thats the only one I think

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah that would do it

[turbid dagger]

So at level 8, an Exemplar can dual wield a d12 and a d6! Yay!

What a weird but fun feat

[frank crystal]

That’s wild

[surreal basin]

Man the PF2e subreddit sucks so bad holy shit

Just

sigh

[sinful gyro]

Never happy those folk

[echo briar]

I mean, I’ve seen worse. I’ve been on the forums

[rustic cape]

Does exemplar have any good dual-wielding options?

I have looked at it very little

[clever cobalt]

What's going on now

[surreal basin]

Mostly just people reacting to stuff in really weird ways

Namely: I saw someone acting like the osirion pantheon was like, the centerpiece of the setting lol

[solar storm]

Ngl I was barely aware of them

[surreal basin]

Yeah no they’re absolutely like

Basically a backstory element

[solar storm]

I always hate that “oh the same Egyptian Pantheon is in our fantasy setting too” stuff

(Forgotten Realms did that to - but in my campaign Tiamat killed them all)

[surreal basin]

Yeah it’s pretty dumb
It’s one thing when it’s one or two real world things from myth like, sure fuck it, sun wu kong, whatever

[warped orbit]

funnily enough, Anubis specifically was often considered a very strong god choice for Cleric

[surreal basin]

But whole pantheons has always made me squint lol

[warped orbit]

because he has Vigil Domain and Wall of Stone as granted spell

[solar storm]

AIUI Anubismaxxing was rea- yeah that

[limber comet]

Also the Osirion gods aren't necessarily dead...besides Thoth

They just disappeared

[frank crystal]

Also yah I wanna ask, in those post WOI world, can clerics still choose the dead gods as their god of choice?

[limber comet]

No

[frank crystal]

Damn

[limber comet]

You can't choose Aroden as a god, so the same applies here

[surreal basin]

Well…. You might still be able to pick the osirion or hag gods, that one is up to gm approval I guess lol

They’re gonna go into the consequences of all this in the divine mysteries book I think

[craggy thunder]

hmmm

How to Make Frog Chrono Trigger

[wary yoke]

I have less of a problem with the removal than the method; "and then our gods killed these public domain but cultural touchstone gods that were also worshipped elsewhere in the universe, for our event" gets on my nerves

[surreal basin]

That’s not actually what happened

I’ve read the book now

||They both got gated/gated themselves to somewhere else, implied to be earth||

[wary yoke]

Huh

Less of a problem with that

I'll have to read it myself

[errant roost]

what's his core mechanical identity? (besides "frog with a sword")

[limber comet]

Yeah it's less of an outright kill and more "they disappeared"

[craggy thunder]

He's kinda a tank

[surreal basin]

I would say honestly

[craggy thunder]

Probably just a grippli champion

[surreal basin]

Just Grippli Paladin w Bastard Sword

Is good enough

[craggy thunder]

Maybe a beastkin human considering his whole thing is he got princess and the frogged by Magus

[frank crystal]

Yah beastkin probably works better

Especially since he’s not super happy being a frog

[echo briar]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/6WkqJMzVkM

[surreal basin]

lol

[limber comet]

Lmao

[surreal basin]

Also yay one of the comments mentioned that the subreddit is like

80% whiteroom buildcrafters

Who complain about the balance of stuff

[frank crystal]

Pathfinder2ecirclejerk

[sinful gyro]

I've gotta save that one

[light gyro]

have they tried playing pathfinde

[clever cobalt]

No that's nerd shit

[craggy thunder]

I wanna play Animist so bad lmao

[limber comet]

Meanwhile I'm over here on my Exemplar shit

I really do want a guardian of the grave/desecrator of the dead epithet

[rustic cape]

It's so funnnnnn

[craggy thunder]

I just wanna become a possessed swordmaster

[rustic cape]

I'm playing mine tonight

[craggy thunder]

oooooooooooooooooooooooo

[rustic cape]

Most Complicated Caster

[craggy thunder]

I could make an Aldori Animist

[limber comet]

(The) Gods Most Complicated Caster

I am a little sore that there's no archfey mythic destiny

Or elemental, for that matter

[wary yoke]

Everyone is quoting the "into nothingness" part and not the "a world like and unlike our own" part, lol

I'm still angry (positive) that the Exemplar actually fits my old character both mechanically and lore-wise with only a slight retcon (that actually makes things more interesting)

In 1E, he was a Veiled Lord Warlord specializing in Radiant Dawn; Akashic magic, martial arts, big sword, incidental combat healing, and now just picking 'the radiant' and the Scar ikon should cover that pretty well (though I should also be picking up Medic for extra healing, since the character has synergy with Godless Healing)

Lorewise he was just using Akashic magic; ancient soul magic, completely divorced from divine power, as befits someone who hates the gods (because he was a victim of one god trying to seize power, before the god was very publicly slain)

And his backstory had him almost sacrificed to the god before he was rescued by several harpy soldiers who adopted him; now, as an Ikon, that all happened, except he actually had a part of the god put in him

Although the funniest mechanical thing is that Ikon healing messes with the Mortal Healing feat, lol

[warped orbit]

Is it divine explicitly?

[limber comet]

Exemplar?

Yeah

[wary yoke]

You get the trait and everything

[warped orbit]

Ah if it does have the trait yeah

[wary yoke]

It does create the implication that the reason my character was selected to venture off and explore/spy/spread the philosophy on a distant, isolationist, dangerous theocracy was because his superiors back home thought he was too weird

And it means that my character's biggest fear, the god coming back through finding a new host... is partially embodied by himself.

[surreal basin]

Hmm

Do yall think I could make animist primal

For its prepared casting

[limber comet]

You could but idk how that would affect balance

[frank crystal]

I thought animist could already do primal casting

[surreal basin]

No they’re divine

They get some primal from spirits

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

[surreal basin]

Do yall think elemental barb is any good?

[frank crystal]

It’s fine

Being able to use impulses when raging is the main benefit imo

So I feel like if you go it you should probably also kineticist archetype

[warped orbit]

It's decent

[surreal basin]

Fair

Turns out making a specific concept work is kinda hard if it wasn’t built with the game in mind

back in 5e i had this idea of a barbarian who was gonna get possessed by their ancestor spirits but during the ritual, a nhilistic cold themed wolf spirit entered them as well and has been devouring their ancestors

[limber comet]

That's rad

I think elemental barb could work

It's not the best instinct but it's by no means bad

Because like

Barb, lol

[upbeat ridge]

Isn’t the gish build for animist pretty good

[warped orbit]

it seems pretty decent at least

with Grudge Strike you get to around or slightly higher than normal martial level accuracy (though part of that is a status bonus)

[upbeat ridge]

Do you get training in martial weapons at all?

[limber comet]

While attuned to the Battle spirit yes

[warped orbit]

once you get Sustaining Dance, that's a pretty solid turn if you're not casting
just Sustaining Dance to Sustain and move, then Grudge Strike for 2a

they also have decent armor IIRC, so you aren't super squishy either

[upbeat ridge]

Isn’t there an ancestry feet that gives you access to aldori dueling swords/counts them as martial?

[limber comet]

Okay so

I was wrong

[warped orbit]

background

[limber comet]

It's only when you cast the focus spell that the spirit gives you

[upbeat ridge]

Ah, background

[craggy thunder]

so there are three ways; the aldori background, unconventional weaponry on Human

And Tengu Weapon Familiarity if you pick a class for the character that has all Martial swords

[upbeat ridge]

Ok

But yeah you could probably pull it off with the gish apparition and aldori duelist archetype

[surreal basin]

Honestly tengu would be a pretty good pick for that in general

[carmine egret]

What was this before it got deleted

[echo briar]

It got deleted? lol

It was making fun of a bunch of other doom and gloom posts, mostly from people who haven’t actually read the new book

[clever cobalt]

It was a post making fun of the tendency of the subreddit to get upset and whatnot

And yeah, that

[carmine egret]

Gotcha

[limber comet]

Me when the roleplaying game adds new stuff to roleplay with and not just new math options

https://tenor.com/view/punch-ground-nero-rage-gif-18336810

[craggy thunder]

I agree on the 'this little mechanical foible is funny as shit' angle, but why otherwise lol

[turbid dagger]

🥺
Dragons Demand is so close................................

[surreal basin]

Get access to all martial swords

For uh

The animist build

When you aren’t using your focus spells

[craggy thunder]

Oh no you need access to all Martial swords to be able to pick the Aldori one

Which

Fuck

means Tengu Animist aldori wouldn't work <XD

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah

Well

You have access to all martial swords during your focus spell…..

[echo briar]

I have been given the PDF from a friend. I forget, can I share screenshots here?

[limber comet]

Yeah

Just spoiler them if you think it's necessary

[echo briar]

Gun exemplar let’s go

[craggy thunder]

How much did Animist change?

[rustic cape]

Not much, I hear

[rustic cape]

I would adore any information you can give on new apparitions for animist, though

[echo briar]

I am going through exemplar first. So any questions on that will be answered first

[rustic cape]

Fair!

[limber comet]

Crafter in the Vault: a dungeon forge spirit
Echo of Lost Moments: a spirit of forgotten memories and chronomancy
Lurker in Devouring Dark: a sea monster/shipwreck/dark tapestry spirit
Monarch of the Fey Courts: a lingering fey spirit
Reveler in Lost Glee: a malicious performer spirit

These are all the new ones

[warped orbit]

The evil clown spirit

[rustic cape]

Ah, reveler was previewed way back, I’ve actually been playing with it

Did You Know: regenerating mirror images you can do retaliatory damage with are strong XD?

[rustic cape]

Anyway that’s fuckin rad

Thanks

[echo briar]

Reap the felid is just a regular transcendence now

[limber comet]

Yeah no problem

[rustic cape]

Too bad no storm spirit with cold and electricity spells tho

I was hoping for one

[errant roost]

are transcendences powered by your focus pool/limited somehow?

[warped orbit]

Huh
Is Peerless Under Heaven still there and just something else now?

[warped orbit]

No

The only limit is that when you transcend, it shifts your spark into a different ikon

[frank crystal]

God what’s the name of the sword ikon that lets you heal with strikes?

[errant roost]

ahh, okay, that makes sense as a limiter. I'm still dipping my toes in the rules, but that seemed like an action you shouldn't just get to spam constantly.

[warped orbit]

Barrow something

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[warped orbit]

Also this is actually way stronger than the old Reap the Field lmao

Since it can't whiff anymore

Immanence isn't great though

[echo briar]

All epithets work whenever you spark transcendence any ikon

Peerless under heaven is force a creature to make a will save to be frightened 1

[frank crystal]

Also what’s the new unarmed ikon btw?

[warped orbit]

Interesting
So they aren't tied to specific ones anymore

[echo briar]

No, but only one can trigger at a time

[clever cobalt]

Hands of the Wildling, its kinda meh imo

[frank crystal]

What does it do?

[echo briar]

There is a cool thrown weapon ikon

[frank crystal]

Oh shit, I mean just being able to do your weapon damage in an AOE is pretty nice

Unless I’m reading that wrong

[clever cobalt]

It is, but the damage kinda sucks

Since it doesn't upgrade unarmed damage

So you're at d4 unless you use a stance

[frank crystal]

Oh yah but like, I assume if you’re going this you’re also going like martial artist or something

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[frank crystal]

One million years of gorilla stance

[frank crystal]

Also, is there a firearm ikon?

I assume there isn’t but it’d be rad if there is

[wary yoke]

IIRC there are... At least two generic ranged ikons

[frank crystal]

Oh also neat that means you don’t need returning

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

God I need to get this book already

I wanna make an exemplar so bad

[wary yoke]

I have a feeling Scar of the Survivor is going to be nerfed

[echo briar]

Wait, did animist have medium armor in the playtest?

[warped orbit]

IIRC yeah

[frank crystal]

What is it?

[warped orbit]

It let's you heal

It's fine IMO

[frank crystal]

Oh that seems fine

[clever cobalt]

Wonder how it works outside of combat

[frank crystal]

Infinite healing is not rare anymore

[warped orbit]

Very quickly

But that's also fine

[turbid dagger]

I'm building out a Mortal Harvester and its slowly growing on me
Its not much by itself but get a Wounding Rune on your Ikon and leverage its strengths, Reap The Field to go around applying 1d6+whatever your immanence damage is to tons of people

Right now what I'm doing is uhhhhhh
Mortal Harvest/Mirrored Aegis/Skin Hard As Horn
With an Orc Necksplitter

[wary yoke]

I think when I convert my Veiled Lord to Exemplar, he'll have Barrows Blade, Scar of the Survivor, and Thousand-League Sandals

[warped orbit]

Fun fact on the throwing
Javelins are light bulk

[clever cobalt]

I'm thinking Pelt of the Beast/Titan's Breaker/Scar of the Survivor

[echo briar]

The problem with mortal harvest is it literally can’t be used in solo boss fights

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, so get another Trasncend
Through The Needle's Eye is what I plan on taking

[clever cobalt]

Using a Maul

[warped orbit]

I'd probably still try to do a dual throwing build again

If none of of the important bits of that changed too much

[clever cobalt]

Weird there aren't any options for a Flail in terms of Ikons

[turbid dagger]

Blind peeps on hit, and removing it is an Interact action, that therefore has Manipulate

[echo briar]

Yea, but the earliest you can do that is level 4

[warped orbit]

Harvest is flails

[turbid dagger]

We are talking about one! Mortal Harvest allows them

[clever cobalt]

Cause i think Flail would fit right in with Titan's Breaker

Oh it does?

[turbid dagger]

Spirit Thresher is really good pick for it
D12 sweep

[clever cobalt]

Oh huh it does

[warped orbit]

Axes, polearms, flails

[clever cobalt]

True, I was hoping to use Spirit Thresher for Titan's Breaker but, alas

Cause i think it fits mechanically

But I suppose that's between me and the GM

[warped orbit]

It's probably fine IMO

[clever cobalt]

(Which speaking of my friend is hosting a Mythic Game starting next month, after the book properly comes out and gets on Foundry)

[clever cobalt]

Also I'm going Gnoll so that works actually

Err, Kholo

Barrow's Edge would also work well imo

[craggy thunder]

Khololooooo

[clever cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/heavy-is-dead-spy-engineer-correct-right-gif-26313261

[echo briar]

What weapon ikon do you think works best for a firefighter? I’m thinking noble branch with a firepole

[craggy thunder]

lol

[clever cobalt]

Yeah that could work

Or with a Giant Fireaxe (Greataxe) Titan's Breaker

[clever cobalt]

Also i feel Barrow's Edge and Scar of the Survivor synergize well

Healing basically every turn in combat

Anyways, dunno if I'd want this Kholo to go Eternal Legend or Godling

For a Mythic Path

[upbeat ridge]

is there any way to be a bit more of a real martial as animist outside of that one focus spell? i guess its fine since untamed druid fucntions similarly?

[warped orbit]

Not really I think

[upbeat ridge]

thats fair

[frank crystal]

I’m thinking this will be the ikon for my swordsman Exemplar

Who’s trying to find the greatest swordsman in the world

And kill them

[wary yoke]

I prefer Barrows Edge to Gleaming Blade, more useful ability IMO and the potential loss of damage is made up for

Also, information gathering potentially

(because relies on enemies being at half HP)

Though maybe I just like lifesteal, lol

[warped orbit]

I prefer Gleaming Blade slightly personally, but they're both good

though Titan Breaker is overall the best melee one I think

[clever cobalt]

Agreed

[echo briar]

I mean, noble branch has a much better transcendence

It’s risk free, and after you get striking runes it’ll deal about the same damage

[clever cobalt]

Lots of good options imo

Which is for the best

[wary yoke]

I was looking at ones that could be a nodachi, lol

[warped orbit]

did they buff the Branch transcend?

it used to be kinda meh

[clever cobalt]

It does the damage dice again, no roll or anything

[warped orbit]

yeah but only dice

[echo briar]

Titan breaker is the same thing, but more risky

[clever cobalt]

But if you crit you do more damage

And it can also affect constructs

[echo briar]

You can also miss

[clever cobalt]

It is a dice game

Regardless each has their benefits

[warped orbit]

looking back, the extra damage on Breaker was slightly lower than I remembered, but still quite good
is Gleaming Blade still locked to swords (and knives)?

[wary yoke]

Or melee unarmed attacks that deal slashing damage

[warped orbit]

hmm, unfortunate

guess Branch ultimately still wins out due to bigger weapon selection

though you could go Gleaming Blade if you twin your weapon I suppose

[limber comet]

There is no winner, only what's cool for the concept you're making

[turbid dagger]

Noble Branch confuses me
If you have a striking rune, its Transcend does 2d(your Ikons dice), is that right?

[limber comet]

Yeah

It's basically another free hit

[warped orbit]

yeah it's just your weapon dice without any of the flat damage

or extra runes

Gleaming Blade is in theory a lot better, but swords and knives is so much more restricted in terms of weapons
especially two handed

is that feat to twin your weapon ikon still a thing?

[clever cobalt]

yes

[turbid dagger]

Man Noble Branch kind of blows Titans Breaker out of the water then 😭

Outside of the construct bypassing thing but like
Get that one level 1 feat

[warped orbit]

depends on how large your dice are

[clever cobalt]

Hmm, are there any good one handed polearms/spears that aren't simple?

[warped orbit]

breaching pike

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[warped orbit]

I don't think there even are any onehanded polearms

yeah all of them are 2h

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[rapid wagon]

Question to more experienced of yall
In a party of the following

• Justice Champion, shield focused
• Healing Oracle
• Intimidation focused two handed fighter
• Shield focused fighter
• Crossbow/ranged focused ranger

What are some good fits for balancing out the party if the champ were to die? Looking for options, my OG plan would be to play a Magus, but interested to see what else works

[clever cobalt]

What's considered the best polearm, anyways?

[warped orbit]

guisarme, as a general purpose pick

fauchard if you're fine trading a die step for deadly and sweep

[turbid dagger]

Yeah Guisarme is the big one
Arguments can be made for the scythe for certain classes

[clever cobalt]

Fair fair

Scythe might be good on Noble Branch

[warped orbit]

that one is a spear, but there is also the gill hook

notable for being a reach grapple weapon, with a d10

[clever cobalt]

I mean, either work

[warped orbit]

generally the big thing to look for in weapons is

• reach whenever possible
• useful maneuver tags
• as high a die size as you can manage given the above two
• whatever miscellaneous tags you can snag along the way

[echo briar]

Is scar of the survivor (transcend to heal 1d8 per 2 levels), radiant (heals an ally 2+2*lvl 1/10 minutes), dancer in the seasons (give yourself 1/2 level temp hp whenever you transcend, does not stack with radiant), and healer of the world (whenever you transcend, stabilize the dying and give the not dying 10 temp hp in a 30 foot radius, does not stack with radiant or dancer of the seasons) too much healing?

[warped orbit]

nah

[echo briar]

I that’s narratively what fits my character best, but that’s a lot

[warped orbit]

although wait
forgot the epithets don't stack

[echo briar]

Really, I think it’s just the last one that’s too much. Protect myself and protect others are two different situations

[warped orbit]

though radiant has a long CD, so might still be worth it
depends on what they're up against I suppose

[echo briar]

Triumph of the tusk only goes to level 12 right?

It’s weird that sovereignty epithets only have 4 options when all the other epithets have 6

It’s also weird that healer of the world is just objectively better than dancer of the seasons. The others are better than lower level epithets, but the lower level ones have their niches

Where as healer of the world does what dancer of seasons does, but effects the whole team

[limber comet]

Maybe they just couldn't fit anymore sovereignty epithets

[frank crystal]

How many weapon ikons are there anyway?

[rustic cape]

Caster

[clever cobalt]

7 of each type

[rustic cape]

You have very, very limited AoE right now

I mean oracle can cover some ground but

Primal or arcane would help a lot here

[worthy stump]

yeah. a Primal or Arcane caster will do that party some good in filling out roles

[rustic cape]

For elemental weaknesses

I'd be tempted to say arcane is better here since you'll probably be okay for healing but arcane has weird utility shit

[rapid wagon]

Would a Druid be good in that role?

I'm guessing magus wouldn't be ideal despite being a Caster?

[solar storm]

Not really

[rustic cape]

Magus isn't really a caster proper

Druid will perform well

It's a good class

Witch, Wizard, and Sorcerer can also all fulfill the role

[frank crystal]

Could also go kineticist

They’ve got a lot of good AOEs

And obviously a lot of elemental damage

[frank crystal]

Flavor wise, what do y’all think is the difference between the stances between wolf and tiger?

Because both animals move pretty similarly

[worthy stump]

my take on it is wolf is more opportunistic, making and seizing any opening they can take, while tiger is more savage fury, just going for a full combo straight for the throat

[surreal basin]

I imagine it as like

First is wolf, second is tiger

[worthy stump]

mhm, same

i get the vivbe

ironically

Tiger style is Yamcha-style

https://tenor.com/bxs4a.gif

[upbeat ridge]

a wizard or an arcane witch is your best bet

[rustic cape]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1026 This seems fun for a liturgist animist

Double your leap distance XD

[frank crystal]

I see the vision

[frank crystal]

Ok so I don’t play it but I’m super happy with alchemist remaster

Because a friend who’s been struggling to find a class he clicks with absolutely adores it

[wary yoke]

I will always miss the 1E body horror alchemist, but I am fond of the remaster alchemist as a class

Versatile Vials are great

[errant roost]

Nice! What's he like about it? I have a big soft spot for alchemists, but it's hard to evaluate crafting versus more traditional spellcasting

[frank crystal]

He just loves the changes to way the quick crafting and daily prep work

Just because he always felt limited with old alchemist in that you didn’t really have access to that many daily preps and quick crafts took too long

But now you have so many more items and quick craft is actually way more useful in the middle of combat

[echo briar]

do I get to decide where spring starts and ends?

like, RAW says nothing about it, but what is RAI?

[clever cobalt]

Presumably

[echo briar]

also, at first I thought this was terrible, but then I realized how bad non overflow kineticist damage was

this is slightly above rate

[clever cobalt]

I think it's fine, but I also played primarily Fire Kineticists who excel in damage

So i may have a skewed view of things

[echo briar]

I said non overflow for a reason

Overflow is fine. Non overflow 2 actions is 5d6

[clever cobalt]

Ah, fair

Yeah I ran into a similar thing

"Why would I spend two actions to blast- oh that's why"

Among other things

[frank crystal]

Huh, this is kinda weird

I wanna add a martial repeating rifle in my homebrew because it’s a weapon niche that just, isn’t in the game yet

And being a martial ranged weapon I want it to compare reasonably to the composite longbow

But I’ve noticed that the barricade Buster is an advanced repeating weapon, but if I do what I want to do I’d probably just make a better version of it

Which is essentially the composite longbow, missing deadly but also losing the volley trait

Also the penalties for repeating but ngl, it’s very unlikely those will come up with the magazine size I’m thinking for this which is like 10

So it’s kinda weird I feel like I’m implementing a martial weapon that’s just better then an advanced weapon of its type, but also in line with the power level of the game

[surreal basin]

And presumably without propulsive?

Also tbh Paizo tends to be extremely selective about firearms, if you don’t think the barricade buster needs to be advanced than by all means

[wary yoke]

Adding revolvers and lever-guns to our setting is also on my list of things to do

I’m fine with them being advanced though

Since gunslingers can learn to treat advanced as martial (and they already start proficient with advanced firearms)

[frank crystal]

Yah but with kickback so the difference isn’t to much

Unless you really invest in on strength for your archer

Which I guess you could

But I’ve never seen an archer build actually go to 18 strength for the extra 1 flat damage

[spring beacon]

Oh God

I was looking at the new starfinder 2e playtest

I CAN BECOME BLASTO

[frank crystal]

Who?

[spring beacon]

THE HANAR SPECTRE

[rustic cape]

Who?

[rapid wagon]

do great old ones still exist in pathfinder's cosmology?

[rustic cape]

They're public domain

[rapid wagon]

i understand that, but i mean involvement in the actual narrative

as they pop up in at least one pf1e adventure

wasnt sure if they lean away in 2e

[rustic cape]

They are at least mentioned in 2e

There's a 2e pantheon that includes Yog

[spring beacon]

Man is mass effect that old already 💀

[rustic cape]

I never played it!

[rapid wagon]

ahh gotcha

[rustic cape]

Lived through it though

[rapid wagon]

i wonder, more explicitly, what iomedae's relation with great old ones like shub might be. I'd suspect opposition

[rustic cape]

... do folks think gods have to agree to form a pantheon? Or can a sufficient concentration of mortals with a sufficiently coherent ideology just kinda say "y'all are pals now"

IIRC all of the GOOs other than Yog were outright evil until the remaster

Yog was Chaotic Neutral in a distinctly prickish sorta way

[limber comet]

A paizo original GOO is featured in an AP yes

[errant roost]

Worshippers sticking their gods in a giant "get along" sweater

Wait, no, this leads to in-universe fake marriage god RPF* fanfic, that's amazing
*Real Pantheon Fic

[warped orbit]

I'd assume the gods don't necessarily need to agree

since the Godclaw is still pretty sus

[rustic cape]

"Asmodeus and Iomedae are aspects of the same cosmic principle" sure buddy, pull the other one

[warped orbit]

yeah

[turbid dagger]

The godclaw is apparently quite unique as pantheons to but yeah

inb4 the reason the Hellknights get divine magic from it is because Asmodeus is providing all of it himself as a psyop

[rustic cape]

Well, there's also that one pantheon with like Desna and Yog

Which seems like a similarly unlikely pairing

Cosmic Caravan?

https://2e.aonprd.com/(X(1)S(pjg3qe45w35m2xqstxrqyi45))/Deities.aspx?ID=219 These jerks

Ashava, Black Butterfly, Desna, Ketephys, Pulura, Sarenrae, Tsukiyo, Yog-Sothoth

[silver geyser]

I get to share the fun fact that Yog-Sothoth is incredibly important to the setting existing. When a reality ends, there are two things left: The Survivor, and Yog-Sothoth.

And those two form the cornerstone of reality reforming.

[rustic cape]

Three Empyreal Lords, two members of the Prismatic Ray, a good elf god, a Tian god, and Yog

I don't think most Empyreal lords would caucus with him willingly

[rapid wagon]

If I am under the effect of confused, and I hit a teammate, can i trigger my own retributive strike to give them resistance and then hit myself?

[rustic cape]

lol

I have no idea

But lol

[rapid wagon]

i guess id not consider them allies at the time

question, at level 9 what is giving my party its benefits against incap effects?

ah its incap itself

that is helping us out

[rustic cape]

Incap effects only work on lower level characters

It's strictly a limit on certain effects

Can't fuck people of your own strength up in certain ways

[rapid wagon]

how does an incap effect gain ranks equal to or closer to teh rank of the players?

monster CR?

[rustic cape]

Monsters have levels, yeah

[charred patrol]

for incapacitation spells, it's "this gets weakened by a degree if the target is a level that is higher than twice the spell's rank"
for other effects, it's "this gets weakened by a degree if the target is a level that is higher than the generating item, creature, or hazard"

[rapid wagon]

so the creature has to be of the same level as the player?

for the incap to effect?

[charred patrol]

a level 5 creature with a non-spell incapacitation effect will be able to use it regularly against creatures that are level 5 or lower, it won't change anything there.

If used on something that is level 6 or higher, then either

1. if the target is the one rolling, get a result one degree of success better for them.
2. if the attacker is the one rolling, get a result one degree of success worse.

...which both generally result in the effect being weaker.

i specify non-spell there because like...
by level 5, you'd get access to rank 3 spells.
and a rank 3 incapacitation spell would work on a level 6 target just fine without the penalty.
so odd levels get a little bit of a boost there, but you still have to be casting your highest rank of spell there.

[rustic cape]

Requiring a crit fail to do full effect is rough

[surreal basin]

Can’t use reactions when confused

[fossil temple]

I kinda like this idea of the fighter archetype
You lose a lot, but gain a lot

[warped orbit]

From what I heard, the stuff you gain seems a bit meh except the resistance later

[rustic cape]

So this is Achilles?

[fossil temple]

OH YEAH ACHILLES

I was tring so fucking hard to remmeber the legend

[warped orbit]

Yeah basically

[rustic cape]

Tbh the gains don’t strike me as especially good

[clever cobalt]

Yeah it has some weird tradeoffs imo

[rustic cape]

“You gain Doomed 2 every time you take 1/3 of physical damage uh”

[fossil temple]

Is more flavour imo

[warped orbit]

It has a few unique archetype feats too, but they vary in quality

[rustic cape]

Seems bad

[warped orbit]

Its not great, also the weakness

[rustic cape]

That too, yeah

[warped orbit]

The main big thing is at 14 they can get resist all equal to half level, except against their weakness

And a stance that gives you an extra reaction and a counter attack

[rustic cape]

Too late

[warped orbit]

Though the wording on that is apparently a bit jank, I'd need to see the exact text

[turbid dagger]

tbh like
It also doesn't feel
Necessary
Its so... weird to make a whole archetype out of
I could see some Exemplar stuff
Give them some overdramatic self-dooming shit and then a dude can take skin hard as horn to lock the Achilles Build in

[rustic cape]

-1 AC, inability to dump Dex, weakness to a physical damage type, and frequent no-save Doomed is gonna hurt for many, many levels

13 of them before you get those resistances, in fact

[fossil temple]

Shame, love the flavour

As well the BloodRager
Really cool flavour
Let's see how an Exausted 1 barbarian casting spells with his CHA mod goes

Need to read the Exemplar a well, I was not very into the beta-version
How it fares today?

[warped orbit]

There are some new feats in the Fighter archetype that also just got added to the normal Fighter list also

Spear Dance is basically Skirmish Strike, but not a flourish. Letting you Strike and Step, or Step and Strike, as one action, just needs to be with a spear or polearm

Needle in the Gods' Eye is two actions, no traits. Leap up to your total Speed, horizontally or vertically, and make two Strikes. MAP only increases after you make both Strikes

[solar storm]

You do get a lot of stuff which interacts with that later

Top part is the dedication

[warped orbit]

Can you post the text for that counter stance they have?

[solar storm]

The weakness is kind of a lot

If you can find some way to handle it or get support through it it’s a LOT of no MAP swings

[solar tendon]

i do kinda like the vibe

and its kinda funny to compare to remaster oracle lol

[warped orbit]

Ah okay I see what people meant with the requirement wording

Feels like they forgot again that requirements need to be met continuously to stay in a stance

[rustic cape]

I guess what it mostly amounts to is you get this big weakness but can do stuff when it's triggered

But like ... honestly even if you can make that work

In any fight where you don't take that damage type

You're kind of a worse fighter

[warped orbit]

I've seen a lot of people say it's probably designed around the Mythic Dying rules too

[fossil temple]

dear god

[rustic cape]

You've invested heavily around getting stabbed but if you meet a guy with a hammer you are down however many feats and your heavy armor proficiency

[fossil temple]

Or Free archetype

[rustic cape]

God imagine you get to the final boss of an AP and they just ... don't deal slashing damage

[warped orbit]

Cause Mythic characters apparently just get back up with an extra stack of Doomed if they would die

[rustic cape]

You are now a fighter with no metastrikes

[fossil temple]

I need to read the Mythic stuff carefuly i have noidea on that

[rustic cape]

Good luck

[rustic cape]

Mm, I suppose that helps somewhat

[solar storm]

Clearly you choose piercing damage and wear one of those collars which can when initiative is rolled do 1 piercing damage

[fossil temple]

I see they are doing fan services for all kinds of tastes

[solar storm]

Yeah I think that’s a big part of it

[warped orbit]

Yeah I was gonna mention the spider collar too lmao

[fossil temple]

https://tenor.com/view/pootis-engage-yes-very-yes-heavy-tf2-gif-17755424

[fossil temple]

Wait they have that?

[solar storm]

The mythic rules seem generally neat but I think mythic resistance will need errata

[warped orbit]

Though from what I've seen, Spear of Doom and the omni resistance are still the best bits of Warrior of Legend

[fossil temple]

And hey, nothing is stopping you from self inflicting you the damage

[solar storm]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1975

[warped orbit]

It's for auto using mutagens

It just also deals you 1 point of piercing

[solar storm]

Most likely

I think the other stuff is pretty good but it’s explicitly for undoing the weakness you accepted

[fossil temple]

That's awesome

[solar storm]

So maybe it’s not good enough

[warped orbit]

Piercing Doom I initially thought was pretty bad
With the knowledge that it can counteract the Doom increase from Dying, its a little better

[fossil temple]

mythic destinies is like a lv12 archetype?

[solar storm]

Yeah

[fossil temple]

Burd

[fossil temple]

Thank ya

[rapid wagon]

Question, what sets a Sorcerer apart from the other arcane casters?

[fossil temple]

Do you want to be a better Wizard?

I feel they are very flexible and easy of use

As well the subclasses gives avery interesting repertoire of spells

[warped orbit]

Mechanically or flavor wise?

[rustic cape]

My thought re: Warrior of Legend is that it should let you declare a doomed weakness

On initiative

So you can say "you, I am weak to you but I am still going to fuck you up"

[solar storm]

That’s probably better for gamefeel yeah

[rustic cape]

It gets some really cool stuff but it depends on the GM obliging you, unless you want your allies to stab you

[solar tendon]

idk if it even really needs to be

a specific weakness

tbh

[rustic cape]

You could call out a specific person, perhaps?

[solar tendon]

i guess for the resistance to the other damage types it does

[rustic cape]

"I am weak to that fucker, that one over there"

[solar tendon]

idk I think part of the issue is that it relies on a game mechanic that is severely underbaked I guess

[rustic cape]

Yeaaaah

[solar tendon]

the damage trinity just like

is too meh haha

[surreal basin]

Concept because I’m tired of kinet being incompatible with everything

anywhere that strike is mentioned you can substitute a one action blast

[rustic cape]

Honestly that'd probably be fine

[solar storm]

Is there a problem with allowing 2 action blasts too?

[rustic cape]

It could get weird depending on the specifics

[surreal basin]

Well you could but you’d need to add that it it adds an action to any given activity

[solar storm]

Ahh true

[rustic cape]

It would be very strange with action-compression stuff that allows more than one attack

[surreal basin]

Also maybe make blasts count as unarmed

Rather than being a secret thing lol

[rustic cape]

Aye, let monks dip kineticist

Let them throw fire

[solar storm]

That might be weird with monk stuff and hand wraps

It might not be a problem though

I agree that Kineticist is too silod

[surreal basin]

True I didn’t think about hand wraps but to that end it is a house rule so I’d just say no lol

Anyway this comes from. Kinet being incompatible with a ton of mythic stuff

[solar storm]

Yeah def

[solar storm]

Yeah easy to just say no

I think making them strikes means fewer weird exceptions

[surreal basin]

[rapid wagon]

sorry had to step up, but a bit of both

[craggy thunder]

not hairy enough tbh

[craggy thunder]

This... seems bad? You seem to lose a lot more than what you do gain which

From reading is basically just Diehard

[fossil temple]

Yeah, re-reading it's weak and mostly flavour

Ah well, shame

"Oh but at lv 16 you gain a great feat!"
We will be lucky to reach lv12 before the campaign dies

[clever cobalt]

Or the character dies

[surreal basin]

Thinking about an oath breaker class archetype but focused more on the BG3 interpretation of oath breaking as not evil inherently

Basically “sometimes you must break you’re ideals and forge your own path”

[limber comet]

I should also probably mention that whenever you cast a bloodrager spell you become drained

[echo briar]

Yea, but you can clear that drain (and gain some useful other stuff) for one action

[limber comet]

That's true

I like the action economy on Bloodrager

At least, the way it reads

[echo briar]

I do think that you should be able to clear they drained by sleeping however

Blood ranger casts 12 utility spells before they can fight someone and they just die

[turbid dagger]

I heard they only get Drained when casting spells during a rage

[echo briar]

That may be intended, but that is not what’s written

It should say “and when you cast a spell this way” or “while raging” if that was the intent

Bloodrager casts guidance once an hour, dead within the day

[frank crystal]

Oh bloodrager is a thing now?

[limber comet]

Yeah lol

It's blood magic now

[clever cobalt]

Class Archetype for Barbarian

[frank crystal]

I thought bloodrager was just barbarian sorc

[turbid dagger]

It was that in 1e, it no longer is

[fossil temple]

It is good? Flavour is amazing but dunno the viability

[clever cobalt]

Debating if I wanna go Godling or Eternal Legend for my Mythic character

[echo briar]

It seems pretty good other than the death by guidance thing

[clever cobalt]

I love Godling thematically but I like the Eternal Legend's mechanics more

[echo briar]

You get more spell slots than any other archetype caster

[clever cobalt]

Godling or Bloodrager?

[echo briar]

Bloodrager

[frank crystal]

Aw man I was gonna make a blood Barbarian subclass homebrew

Well actually I already did

But like, I was gonna plan to post it online

[rustic cape]

I'm not big on nu-Bloodrager's "literally drinking blood" thing

Also its action economy looks pretty restrictive

[solar tendon]

why does bloodrager even need to be action neutral with moment of clarity

like no spells during rage is more of a flavour thing isnt it

but also changing the narrative seems weird when its not like sorcerer remaster really changed

i guess they didnt want a class archetype to have its own subclass thing?

[rustic cape]

I suppose hypothetically it also limits their options, narrowing scope

But tbh I feel like using your actions on things that don't get a gigantic flat damage boost is probably a poor enough decision that it's not really necessary

[solar tendon]

for real

[rustic cape]

In some ways it's locking you out of making bad decisions >_>

PF2e: "I'm sorry, you're a barb and you're not playing like this? Absurd, no, I refuse."

[solar tendon]

and its not that I even necessarily disagree with the idea that by default barbs shouldnt be able to cast, as a flavour thing, its just weird cause its not really for balance reasons so extending that to the balance of the bloodrager is just unnecessary

[rustic cape]

Aye

Like, if the bloodrager is supposed to be "the barb who casts spells" maybe just ... let them do that and make it a reasonably good decision to do so

I'm not even opposed to the blood magic flavor per se

Although I wish it was more like "you can mess around with life energy through blood (usually), you do not have to lick the stuff off your sword"

But the dynamic as is seems awkward

And the action economy seems constrained

[surreal basin]

They changed the fluff mostly because I think you can do sorcerer/barb w archetypes technically

[clever cobalt]

I'm unsure if I want to go Godling or Eternal Legend for my friend's Mythic game. I love the Godling thematically, but Eternal Legend seems much more up my alley in terms of mechanics.

[rustic cape]

Technically, in that a character can have feats that would be required to do that -_-

[thorny berry]

the rage thing has always been weird since like

barbarian as far as I'm aware isn't intended to be Just Better than martials that don't have rage restrictions

though I suppose it did get buffed a bit with remaster

[surreal basin]

I mean they get way mo flat damage than anyone else

More

That’s the exchange

[rustic cape]

I think it actually does serve as a guardrail though

As well as requiring slightly more investment to do certain things, like Demoralize

[limber comet]

I like new Bloodrager but I'd have to see it in play to effectively gauge how fun it is

Also being actually blood themed is both cool and fitting considering the meta-event

Cause like

The Godsrain is blood

Tons and tons of it

[warped orbit]

it's mostly just weird to me
Because this new Bloodrager is an almost entirely different thing from the old Bloodrager, in terms of fluff

[limber comet]

It is a lil weird yeah

But I'm personally a fan of it

[surreal basin]

also blood magic

It’s just cool

Old fluff was basically just martial sorcerers anyhow

[warped orbit]

it was yes

but reusing the name for something different is still pretty jarring IMO

[limber comet]

Blood magic is just cool in general

[silver geyser]

The old Bloodrager basically didn't have magic.

All your magical output was devoted to self-buffing if you wanted to be effective.

[limber comet]

I wanna play a Bloodrager for the new vamp ap

[silver geyser]

And the real optimal way to play 1e Bloodrager was to just take the archetype that let you trade out bloodline powers for Rage Powers.

So you really were just a Barbarian with a free action buff as part of raging.

[surreal basin]

They both boil down to a barb that casts spells but I getcha

[warped orbit]

tbh, I already found Remaster Sorc doing more overt blood stuff a bit odd already as well

the magic is in their blood, they don't necessarily do blood magic

[surreal basin]

That’s mostly because that archetype had no trade off lol

Which isn’t great lol

Balance wise I mean

[silver geyser]

Bloodrager came from a... Not great era of balance in classes for 1e.

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[silver geyser]

I'm happy with a lore revamp.

[surreal basin]

Even if it is based as fuck

[limber comet]

If you want a sorc barb, barbarians+ is eventually going to get remastered and that had 1e bloodrager ported

I also just like Barbarians+ because like. There's a zealot barb that actually is focused on worshipping a god

[silver geyser]

That is not what I'd want from a Barbarian that is empowered by a magical bloodline if I'm being perfectly honest.

[limber comet]

Shrug

[silver geyser]

But as ever, we run into the true issue: What is a Gish anyways?

[warped orbit]

getting some self buffs when you rage was tbh what I had expected from Bloodrager

maybe some focus spells

[limber comet]

I should make an exemplar

[frank crystal]

So for homebrew supplements, should I use alphabetic order for new class options?

[clever cobalt]

Hmm, do you think Hands of the Wildling would work well with a Battlezoo Dragon Exemplar?

[limber comet]

...huh

I hadn't thought of that

Definitely doable

[clever cobalt]

Ye

Especially Draconic Ravager/Draconic Diehard

[turbid dagger]

So uh
I realized something
Can you tell what I am thinking just from these two screenshots

(Also: Wounding Rune)

[limber comet]

No, but do elucidate me

[turbid dagger]

So
Persistent damage of the same type never stacks with itself, you take the higher
So hit once with mortal harvest, 1 spirit damage per die, hit again, still 1 persistent per
BUT
Take Energized Spark, get, idk, slashing from metal
Hit once with mortal harvest, 1 spirit, hit again, 1 persistent slashing
Take it again, add sonic to the list, and so on
Take twin stars, get double slice off an archetype
Stack tons of persistent damage on dudes super easily with a ton of attacks that don't take any MAP

[limber comet]

Huh

Wild

[turbid dagger]

1 persistent damage per dice isn't a lot but lets say your at level 7 or so, you have a striking rune and a wounding rune on your ikon
You are doing 1d6+2 persistent damage just from hitting someone once, 1d6+4 if you hit em twice
That's the average damage of, idk, a bow shot at that level

My brain is just Expanding
Since I'm doing a Mortal Harvest char soon

Was planning on being tanky with an orc necksplitter + shield but I may do dual Hatchets instead?

Have to think about it

[rustic cape]

For a second I was so full of hope that this was an animist feat

[limber comet]

I still think Animist is good lmao

[rustic cape]

I love animist

My animist has cackle just in case

[sudden lark]

I found a lil guy

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1625

Is there still a true dragon/lesser dragon distinction like in 3.5

[turbid dagger]

Dragon's Demand is
So
Close............

[solar storm]

I think the final 48 hours push will probably get it over

[turbid dagger]

I'm honestly surprised it wasn't one of those 'blow past all the stretch goals' kind of kickstarters
Do people have 0 confidence in Ossian? Do they hate the mini aesthetic that much????

It seems like people should be going Crazy for a 2e CRPG considering the reception the owlcat games got and the reception 2e's got over 1e

[thorny berry]

I mean 'yes' on the latter part for me at least though I did still end up backing

[rustic cape]

I think the minis aesthetic is part of it, I hate it a ton

[turbid dagger]

I see
I suppose that's fair! It moves the needle literally 0 for me so I guess I'm just a lil shocked
I play TTRPGs so I'm used to seeing PNGs slide about a square grid 😭

[rustic cape]

It’s the worst possible choice they could have made imo, like 2D isometric would have been so much better

[thorny berry]

like it's a constant and never-ending reminder that you're playing a game and not interacting with a real story and characters that have stakes

[rustic cape]

Frankly I would prefer that

[thorny berry]

same tbh

[rustic cape]

I also think disappointment that it’s not Owlcat might be playing a role

[thorny berry]

definitely not insignificant

like 100% what people want is a wotr-scale game for 2e

and what's on offer is... not that, unfortunately

[rustic cape]

WotR was so good

[turbid dagger]

Yeahhh
An owlcat 2e would be nice but iirc they've publically stated they aren't going to do 2e right?

[rustic cape]

Yeah

[thorny berry]

iirc it's ambiguous

but probably not in the super near future in any case

[rustic cape]

I heard they don’t like it?

Rogue Trader was really good though

And I think leaned into what they do like, mechanically

In terms of crazy effect-stacking action economy manipulating silliness

[thorny berry]

putting mythic rules under a box with stick + string setup to tempt owlcat back with unbalanced mechanics

[rustic cape]

I love 2e’s vibe but it is a different vibe

[thorny berry]

I do think it has more going on now than it did when owlcat last assessed it in that light

[rustic cape]

Tbh the best 3.P experiences I've had were all vidya

[thorny berry]

would actually not discount the possibility of them baselining free archetype if they did make one lmao

or just stapling on some weird archetype-like system of their own like they did with wrath of the righteous

[solar storm]

Lmfao

[echo briar]

I wonder if dawnsbury days stole any of the kickstarters thunder for a low budget 2e game. I could see the bar being raised for something closer to AA.

[rustic cape]

I'm not sure

[turbid dagger]

If anything I should suspect the opposite
Because the only bad thing about Dawnsbury Days is that there isn't more of it

Its a tiny, tiny, tiny ass game

[rustic cape]

Well, I think that's what Polish Vampire is suggesting -- that people are less enthusiastic because like ... "look at Dawnsbury Days over there, can we get them to do a kickstarter?"

(I am not suggesting they should or should not, to be clear)

[turbid dagger]

I guess to me Dragon's Demand is more or less just
That with more money?
Like it's a kind of cheapo 2e game (but less cheapo)

[rustic cape]

But I dunno, the minis thing just looks really bad

Like ... yes, I know this is based on PF2e, I don't need to be reminded

I would rather something low-fi and 2D than that

[frank crystal]

WOTR is so good I just wish it was a system I enjoyed playing

[turbid dagger]

yeah lmao

Going through dungeons in that game is actively a chore for me

[frank crystal]

I stopped playing at the first major dungeon

Just because I can’t stand 1e combat

[rustic cape]

I really like 3.P in vidya format

[frank crystal]

I only got that far because all the combat before was really easy so it didn’t last long

[rustic cape]

Because vidya feels more conducive to like ... weird time management bullshit and twinking the fuck out of everything

[frank crystal]

I just can’t really stand how like, there’s so many potential pitfalls

And WOTR gets hard enough that those pitfalls really matter

(Also I was having issues with some of the character writing but that was mostly Ember and her related quests so I didn’t mind it to much)

[thorny berry]

yeah honestly like, give me straight up ff1 level sprites and I'd take them over the 3d minis

[turbid dagger]

My experience going through a lot of WOTR was 'daeran and nenio use all their spell slots for buffs at the start of the dungeon, we full attack everything until it dies while nenio and daeran play pattycake behind us'
'daeran occasionally stops to use channel energy'

[thorny berry]

it's not a question of budget or production value I just don't like them

my WOTR impression is

[frank crystal]

Daeran was great I will say

Love that piece of shit

[thorny berry]

'jesus christ this is the most Game per game I have ever consumed'

'that is too much please stop'

[frank crystal]

It is so ducking dense yah

[thorny berry]

oh yeah daeran was great I kinda regret writing him off a bit as an 'evil' companion my first run

[turbid dagger]

Yeah thats the usual CRPG pitfall for me
I need to Do All

[thorny berry]

well, first and almost certainly only I should say I can't imagine doing another full playthrough

[frank crystal]

I am happy the only timer in the game is really lenient

[frank crystal]

Admittedly that is always something I struggle with in CRPGs

[thorny berry]

of course by the end my individual mythic questline (gold dragon) and multiple of my major companion questlines (Seelah and Sosiel who I was romancing) bugged out and were uncompletable so 🙃

[frank crystal]

They really benefit from multiple playthrough but they’re so fucking loooooooooong

[thorny berry]

strong regret on going azata tbh

[frank crystal]

I can’t make all these choices when the game takes 90 hours to complete for the first time

[frank crystal]

Why?

[thorny berry]

I was sold on 'you should actually care what you're fighting for' and received 'pip pip cheerio! time for the charge of the monkey cheese randomness brigade!'

[frank crystal]

Oh

[thorny berry]

starward gaze is still a v good theme

[frank crystal]

Also yah if I’ve got one major issue with WOTR’s writing, I really don’t like how they handle the divine aspects of Golarion

Well like, besides the demons themselves

The demons were fine

[thorny berry]

lol I also very distinctly remember going 'hell yeah legend path sounds awesome, love to defy my fate'

and then having iomedae push it super hard and just going

[frank crystal]

Lol yah

Like, the legend path is the mortal path

That’s the flavor

[thorny berry]

which is cool!

[frank crystal]

Why does every god want me to become one?

They should want me to become like, an Angel

[thorny berry]

but I thought it was 'fuck your designs upon my fate' mortal and not 'know your fucking place' mortal

[frank crystal]

That’s the clearly stated good aligned divine path

Like I’m fine with Iomadae not like, abandoning me if I go legend

But I don’t think she would encourage it when there’s other paths far more aligned with her

[rustic cape]

They don't

Iomedae specifically doesn't trust the demonic origins of your power and suggests an alternative

But she also respects your decision if you choose not to take it

The gods in general do not give two shits about whether you're level 40 or level 20 w/mythic

[frank crystal]

I guess so, still I don’t really like how the divine is handled in general in WOTR

Iomadae is just handled kinda weirdly and I got annoyed by ember every time she talked when we were interacting with anything god adjacent

[rustic cape]

I really liked Iomedae's appearance

[thorny berry]

shoutouts to the insane way they handled alignments lol

you were too Good you're a fallen paladin now

[frank crystal]

I feel bad for every paladin character

It’s so fucking funny

[rustic cape]

I mean ultimately atonement scrolls were easy to get

[frank crystal]

How you become too good and lose your paladin oath

[rustic cape]

So while it was stupid the impact was negligible

[frank crystal]

Especially when every lawful dialogue choice is some form of “you should just starve, stupid orphan who stole a single apple”

[rustic cape]

I thought she came across as a reasonable, cautious, and intelligent

[frank crystal]

I feel bad for lawful good characters in general in that game

The lawful dialogue choices sucked

[rustic cape]

Angel is actually an amazing character arc imo

I loved it

[frank crystal]

I did miss Angel

I abandoned it pretty quickly when given the option

[thorny berry]

yeah from what I heard it really does kinda sounds like angel was the best supported

[rustic cape]

Angel is just really fitting in the narrative

Feels very organic

[frank crystal]

I am curious about a like, swarm playthrough

[rustic cape]

Everyone leaves and you get five clones

It's hard as hell

[frank crystal]

I thought some of the more evil/stupid companions stayed?

[turbid dagger]

My current playthrough is Sable Company Mercenary (Ranger but you get a Hippogriff Companion which is like Ulbrig's griffon form but worse basically)
My idea is to retrain into Sable Company Merc 1 and go Wildlands Shaman for the rest of my levels
So I get divine casting and the hippogriff scales off its animal companion levels
Take angel, pick the option where its spells just become part of your divine casting
Cuz I hear that's hilariously overpowered

But also this is cool in concept but I don't want to start up playing WOTR again because building the character is the only actual fun part of the gameplay

Its like that INTJ 'I have calculated the taste of this french fry in my head' meme but for real

[frank crystal]

“Mmm… perhaps a little more small encounters next time”

[limber comet]

I feel like I'd get turned off by the 1e games because a ttrpg veering too hard into math and not into the roleplay stuff makes me go ehhh

[echo briar]

They should make a 10e Crpg. Give the devs creative license for what they think pathfinder will be in 100 years

[frank crystal]

The only class is thaumaturge

The ideal, perfect class

[spring beacon]

Are there any mythic arexhtypes for Gish class like magus