Pathfinder

[rustic cape]

That's not really gnolls

[frank crystal]

I see

[solar tendon]

its also kinda an editorial thing to move toward using endonyms more often for golarion stuff

[limber comet]

Yeah kholo are actually people, whereas gnolls are just demonic clones of one big hyena demon

Because...wotc moment I guess

Unless it's Eberron, cause Eberron is based

[silver geyser]

Because a step away from Uncivilized Savages enemies.

[limber comet]

I mean I guess but I would've preferred they step in the opposite direction

Make a change to the lore

Make it so gnolls rebelled against their progenitor and became their own people

[wooden orbit]

https://paizo.com/store/pathfinder/adventures/adventurePath/triumphOfTheTusk God, October got a lot of good stuff coming out. DAVE (Dragon Age Veilguard), Metaphor: ReFantazio, this

[clever cobalt]

don't forget War of Immortals!

[rustic cape]

Pleased to see they’re moving away from 1-10 and 11-20 as the band all APs take place in

[turbid dagger]

Man dragons demand still isn't funded 😭
15 days to get 100000
Of course it got 2/3rds of the way there in the first 15 days but

[surreal basin]

Kickstarters usually get most of their money in the opening and closing hours

[turbid dagger]

Yeye, I'm hoping the closing rush gets it funded
It's just a nailbiter

[wooden orbit]

Remind me which day is that coming out?
Godsrain should already be out yeah?

[clever cobalt]

wait is it?

WoI is the 30th

[rustic cape]

End of October

[solar storm]

I’m probably getting my WoI pdf soon which is exciting

[frank crystal]

God I’m excited for WOI

I wanna play an exemplar so much

I need to wrestle a troll and rip off its arm

[rustic cape]

I really want to see the fully-formed animist

I love the class so much

[wary yoke]

I'm eagerly awaiting Vindicator

[rustic cape]

It’s funky because a high-level animist has an outlandishly huge collection of things they can do on any given turn

[wary yoke]

WoI is supposed to have the writeups on the new gods, yeah? Has there been any talk of new domains or similar?

[clever cobalt]

Ye they start shipping around the 16th iirc

[turbid dagger]

You know what I kind of miss?
Double weapons
I'm honestly surprised they didn't make the jump, it seems simple to do in this system
One weapon with two statblocks, say it counts as two weapons for feats that call for that
Like a combination weapon but you don't need to switch (and both halves are melee)
Like-
Dwarven Urgrosh (Main)- d8 slashing, Weapon Group Axe, sweep
Dwarven Urgrosh (Secondary)- d8 piercing, Weapon Group Spear, backswing
For example 🤔
(That would be a pretty mid setup for a dual wielder mind but its what came to mind for this specific weapon)

[clever cobalt]

Bloodborne Trick Weapons?

[turbid dagger]

Well, not particularly
Less transforming and more just
Well there are tons of them in 1e
The twin bladed sword, orc double axe, the urgrosh I mentioned, gnome hook hammer, etc

[rustic cape]

They were a thing from D&D 3e

[turbid dagger]

This is the urgrosh being referenced, for example

[clever cobalt]

Ah

[rustic cape]

Basically all of them were sticks with a weapon at each end

Sometimes the same weapon, sometimes different

[turbid dagger]

But yes they were a 1e thing that did not make the jump

[rustic cape]

Dire flail my beloathed

I should at least be able to imagine using a weapon

[warped orbit]

It was basically just dual wielding but as a single weapon

[rustic cape]

You still needed to enchant each end separately, even

[warped orbit]

Wait you did?

[rustic cape]

Yep

No cheating WBL

[warped orbit]

So it's literally no different from just using two weapons then

[rustic cape]

Yes

[turbid dagger]

To be honest, its mostly because I like the aesthetic
I've been playing the WOTR CRPG recently and I've fallen in love with the urgrosh

[thorny berry]

this post is daelan red tiger approved

[warped orbit]

the classic

[fossil temple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1248108958627921933/1293358323906904064/wwndungeonmockup.jpg?ex=6707be0d&is=67066c8d&hm=e088be59cca77023ecdfed210fc3d6a50124e21590a553db68e02bad08c137f7&
Sometimes even a background is great to set your players when talking

[surreal basin]

Are your PCs all furries?

[wary yoke]

Given how little they were used, it was easier to use different mechanics for the ones that were

[surreal basin]

OH double weapons

[echo briar]

You are in charge of PF3. Playtests are showing that 4 types of feats are too many, and you need to get rid of either class, ancestry, skill, or general feats. Which one are you getting rid of?

[warped orbit]

general

[echo briar]

yea, its either them or skill. probably makes sense to fully merge them.

[limber comet]

General feats gotta go but we're keeping special shit like aftermath and deviant feats

[echo briar]

I would get rid of skill, and just have a few general feats with skill prerequisites

[limber comet]

Mostly because Aftermath and Deviant feats are great storytelling tools

[fossil temple]

Why yes

[surreal basin]

Well yeah but those aren’t general feats regardless lol

[solar storm]

I’m adding background feats

[echo briar]

I fell like whoever is in charge of page count will disagree lol

[rustic cape]

I will cut off their head

Before I cut general feats

Real talk: deviant feats do not remotely live up to their promise in part because you’re supposed to take them in place of class feats and thus lose out on essential synergies, and in part because failing the flat check fucks you over really badly

You’re safer not touching them

[echo briar]

I just feel like background feats would mean we get like 10 backgrounds in the core book, and making it difficult to make your own.

[rustic cape]

I mean background feats would actually not be good because they would provide strong optimization incentives for a particular background

I think Cyan was making a jest

[echo briar]

yea, and players are way more likely to want a background that doesn't exist than an ancestry that doesn't exist. You know about bankers, but you wouldn't know about fetchlings until you see it in a book

[solar storm]

It’s true, but I would resist removing feats

[surreal basin]

So I do actually think

That this leads into an actual issue with the system

Which is that skill feats vary SO wildly

In how good/useful they are

[ocean cobalt]

i dont think theres any reason to not do any of them but they shouldnt all be called "feats"

[surreal basin]

Eh, it’s fine

Insofar as like

It’s such an immaterial issue
Calling skill feats “skill abilities” or something wouldn’t make any difference

[solar tendon]

they also all work the same way

[ocean cobalt]

only vaguely

like the pf1 equivalent was like, uhhh.... arcanist exploits/rogue tricks/whatever else? and no one got those confused with Feats

[rustic cape]

I think feat works as a piece of system terminology for “selectable option”

[warped orbit]

I do think that's an issue, yeah
but I mainly think there should be more impactful skill feats for all skills

instead of only Medicine, Athletics, Intimidation and one or two others getting all the attention

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Absolutely

[solar tendon]

each of those was a slightly different system with like different levels of interchangability

[surreal basin]

Also please give everything a legendary feat

[rustic cape]

Several, even

[surreal basin]

Speaking of

I’m thinking of changing Unified Theory

[rustic cape]

You know what’s fun? Legendary Tattoo Artist gives you Legendary Crafting

[ocean cobalt]

i mean arguably the reason pf2 class feats dont work like that is just. that they aren't allowed to, otherwise itd be a weird interaction with other things called "feats"

[surreal basin]

So that any legendary magic skill can take it
Because it kinda makes arcana absolutely weirdly busted comparatively , right? And also the flavor of “arcana is the TRUE magic study that ties everything together” just sucks

[ocean cobalt]

(what specific weird interaction? idk but i imagine the devs have one in mind)

[rustic cape]

I endorse this

[surreal basin]

I hate unified theory so much

Just an indescribable hate for it

In my heart

[ocean cobalt]

i think there are a certain number of concessions pathfinder (at least 1e and 2e) has to make to remain The Thing That It Is

[rustic cape]

Arcana motherfuckers can’t even heal frfr

[ocean cobalt]

and i think that The Thing That It Is is "generic brand dnd" and fundamentally not very good but any sweeping changes i would want made to pathfinder lore or mechanics would make it lose that identity

[surreal basin]

…… so I get what you’re saying but how does this relate back to what you replied to

[ocean cobalt]

which is just a thing i think generally and doesnt really function as a response but point being, i think "arcane magic" as a class of magic entirely separate from divine/primal/occult is both really bad and also really tied to the flavor and implications of Unified Theory

[surreal basin]

Ah okay

Well

Outside of stuff like unified theory it is positioned as an equal interpretation/tradition of magic as the others

And I don’t think it being the “real” one is tied to its identity necessarily, again outside of some specific stuff like UT

[ocean cobalt]

normally in like dnd proper that doesnt bother me as much bc i dont have any expectations beyond "its dnd and i dont like that its dnd" but when i see it crop up in like stuff that isnt dnd it makes me annoyed

[warped orbit]

yeah but we also have a bunch of lore on how magic works in Golarion, via Secrets of Magic

[ocean cobalt]

(this is secretly about Armour Astir)

[warped orbit]

and the idea that arcane magic is somehow more correct or more true doesn't really come up

[ocean cobalt]

oh, good then

[limber comet]

Unified theory is just for people who have commitment issues /j

Pick a major smh!!!

[ocean cobalt]

but i still think arcane doesnt really "work" as an aesthetic like, say, occult does

[surreal basin]

Howso

[limber comet]

Occult varies as an aesthetic though

Cuz both bard and psychic use occult

[surreal basin]

It’s about like, math and equations and scientific study, it’s the clinical understanding of magic as a science

[ocean cobalt]

its a dndism to make wizards work

[surreal basin]

Okay

[limber comet]

Ehm

[warped orbit]

I mean that is the PF lore on how arcane magic works

[limber comet]

Speaking of wizards

[warped orbit]

it's magic as science

magic as something that can be studied and replicated

[limber comet]

Wizards+ is coming soonish

[silver geyser]

Divine is Magic from a deific source.
Primal is tapping into the magic that naturally exists.
Arcane is applied magical science.
Occult is Other Things.

[limber comet]

Occult is kinda hard to explain

It's the magic of...storytelling? But not really

[warped orbit]

Occult is about storytelling

it's magic that works because people expect it to work

it's tapping into collective unconscious type stuff

Thaumaturge is a good example of it IMO

when the Thaum pulls out their esoterica to form a symbolic link to a target, it doesn't matter that the items themselves have no magical power

[tough perch]

occult is tentacles because people think occult is tentacles

[warped orbit]

it's about the fact that it makes sense

[clever cobalt]

It's a mixture of mind and symbolism

[warped orbit]

that the symbolism of what they do is correct

[limber comet]

The random bullshit meme about Thaum annoys me

It's not random

[warped orbit]

yeah that was a very humorous aside in the Occult writeup in SoM

[warped orbit]

yeah, it's unfortunately a very widespread misconception now

[limber comet]

I do miss schools of magic due to the SoM stuff

Like, giving the different schools all sorts of thematic

[tough perch]

i think it's very fitting, because the meme also mischaracterizes moon knight in a similar spirit, and it'd be a lot funnier if people actually understood the idea behind thaum and wouldn't fall for the misconception

moon knight also suffers some misconceptions due to memes

[limber comet]

It can still be fitting and annoying

[surreal basin]

Fair

I wouldn’t pay it too much mind space tbh

It’s just a bit, and it’s not that serious? Yknow

It’s not worth getting upset about

[silver geyser]

My favorite moonknight meme is Kingpin looking so done with things because he hired Taskmaster to fight Moonknight

And it's because they just keep punching each other in the face for hours

No dodging, no cares. Just hitting each other in the face, while Taskmaster comments on how much he hates fighting him.

[limber comet]

Did anyone post the new player's guide yet

[tough perch]

i think that one wasn't a meme
or at least something like that does actually happen in the comics

[echo briar]

No

[limber comet]

Okay hold on

https://x.com/paizo/status/1844076628810293473?t=xCs0bIsO_fRd8RrmQMjBQg&s=19

Paizo (@paizo) on X

Ardax the White-Hair of Belkzen has extended an invitation to the Flood Truce—will you heed the call?
Download the Triumph of the Tusk's Free Player's Guide Today!
https://t.co/HCjJ4abvb2

Twitter · Oct 9, 2024, 6:05 PM

[turbid dagger]

Its really cool

A strongly rec'd race is 'hobgoblin' thats how you know its a banger

[limber comet]

Kholo also being recommended

https://tenor.com/view/its-peak-old-man-shaking-head-gif-3938163323164042530

I do like the fact that dwarves are recommended as well

For obvious reasons

[surreal basin]

Dwarf who is overly apologetic the whole time
“Oh my god I’m so sorry. Ohhhh my god I’m sorry. Holy shit.”

[turbid dagger]

This guy but two feet shorter, one foot wider, and mutton chops three times the size

[surreal basin]

LMAO yeah

[limber comet]

TRUE AND REAL

Honestly the character reccs here are really good

I'd probably play a dwarf or a Matanji orc

Dwarvish diplomat who's a bagpipe bard

[turbid dagger]

If I ever got in I'd bust out the bow champion of Skode who I played in a oneshot forever ago
I love this choice of patron

[sinful gyro]

Iirc Oprak, the new hobgoblin nation, is next door and they want to make allies with nearby powers to establish their legitimacy

[warped orbit]

Oprak is very close to Belkzen yeah

also they are both looking for diplomatic connections, so that makes perfect sense

[turbid dagger]

Oh trust me
I know
My Kingmaker character is Lieutenant Egar Kalt, Ironfang Legion
Ahem, I mean uh, Egar Kalt, retainer of Lady Alyssa Varn of Brevoy, ignore his prior military career please he was honorably discharged

[sinful gyro]

Bru

That's my kingmaker character to

[turbid dagger]

lmaooooo

[limber comet]

I'm really excited for this ap

Even though I'll never get to play it

[turbid dagger]

Yeah!!!
I like that its kind of geared towards the 'monster' races

[limber comet]

Minus undead LOL

[limber comet]

Though it would be kinda cool if you played as a disguised, unwilling undead

Like an Arazni worshipper

And you were helping the orcs to actively hinder Tar-Baphon

That'd be cool I think

[craggy thunder]

Hobgoblin Investigator would be awesome for this I bet

[turbid dagger]

They got blood lords, fairs fair!

[clever cobalt]

I do like how a lot of "monstrous" ancestries are allowed

Or recommend

[limber comet]

Man the new Ardax art on the cover of Vol. 1 is

Whew

They cooked

[surreal basin]

OKAY

I have an idea inspired by tabletop chat for making guns feel better

First: apply the kickback trait more universally

Second: make kickback provide 1 (or even 2) flat damage per damage dice

Composite bows have already shown that adding a small amount of flat damage to a ranged weapon isn’t against the rules

And it would be a cool way to show that a gun isn’t really gonna leave you with just a scratch

Basically, decent chunk of flat damage in exchange for the reload + either small amount of strength investment or a set up

[wooden orbit]

Wait but where is playable Hobgoblin?

Oh wait

X-X

My brain read that was bugbear

[tough perch]

i was thinking doing the same thing in case i ever gm with starfinder's guns

though i was thinking of cooking up an attachment or mod or something like that added kickback, on those terms

something like heavy caliber, adds kickback, heavier caliber adds kickback 2

[surreal basin]

I haven’t seen enough of starfinder to know if that’s necessary since it’s a different space

[tough perch]

where heavier caliber would also have a higher strength requirement

haven't played much beyond a singular test encounter

guns felt peashooty

i didn't feel particularly pulled towards using more ranged, and the intention was to have ranged meta right

adding something like propulsive damage to guns will allow them to feel a little heftier while keeping melee damagier

[wooden orbit]

I’d probably wind up playing an orc from the Belkzen hold for this, or from the Mwangi Expanse

[limber comet]

Matanji orcs :]

[wooden orbit]

Matanji Orcs

[limber comet]

The new bloodrager is a Matanji orc

[wooden orbit]

Love seeing how the Belkzen orc culture is starting to go through a major change, a noticeable shift.

[echo briar]

A level 1 player casts illusionary object to make a wall of stone. How familiar with magic should a creature be to realize that wall of stone is a way higher level spell than the player is capable of casting?

[surreal basin]

reasoably intelligen characters should be allowed to recall knowledge

*reasonably intelligent

on the players

[novel merlin]

Dont they also just get a roll to disbelieve?

[surreal basin]

but inherently, no one

[surreal basin]

only if they interact

[novel merlin]

For illusory object looks like they can seek too

[echo briar]

I feel like spending an action and rolling to disbelieve is enough of a cost that they don't also need to spend and action and roll to RK

the illusion still provides concealment even if they disbelieve

[novel merlin]

Yeah that would be Seek/interact

[novel merlin]

Thats up to gm discretion but yeah

[echo briar]

and if a player immediately rolls to disbelieve because they know the NPC should not be high enough level to cast wall of stone, I'm not going to say no

[novel merlin]

They should still spend the action to seek in the process of disbelieving

rolling perception vs spell dc

[echo briar]

yea, that has to happen anyways

[novel merlin]

That can easily have the flavor of "I dont believe that this person is a powerful enough spellcaster for this"

[echo briar]

you can know something is an illusion, and you need to disbelieve it before you can fully ignore it

[limber comet]

When most of your ancestral gods get merc'd change tends to happen

[wooden orbit]

Did they get merc'd following Gorum's death and I missed it? x-x

[limber comet]

Uh so like. When orcs die in a certain way, they get to challenge members of their pantheon, and several orc champions died recently

[wooden orbit]

Was that how Mahja Firehair became a new deity?

[limber comet]

Yes!

It's actually mentioned in the player's guide

[wooden orbit]

Love that part of this AP is all about geopolitics

[limber comet]

I'm really excited to see the new monsters and articles

It's really cool that every classic ancestry is getting an ap

Dwarves, elves, orcs

Technically not a classic but you could argue Wildwood is for leshies

[wooden orbit]

I still need to play Sky King's Tomb 😔

[echo briar]

They should make a halfling AP that is actually a new rules light system about tending a farm

[wary yoke]

In my PF1E campaign there is a recurring NPC adventuring party called the Half-Again Heroes that are all halflings

[echo briar]

I feel like a gnome AP would be hard, if only because I’m pretty sure the guy in charge of APs hates gnomes

[wary yoke]

The person bankrolling the party kept their serviced retained by always having a full larder

It came from a concept I had for a full halfling party, there was one week where one player was absent that we ran a quick side session with the party playing the halflings

I think they were a mounted paladin, an arcanist that focused on battlefield control (and boosting up Irradiate), a duellist bard, a rogue who was also the cook (and whom the player played as being a conspiracy nut), a spellscar oracle, and a ranged warlord

Side effect, they all had great saves

[wooden orbit]

I would have a frustrating time in a gnome AP just because of how the gnomes are. All the things they have to do to avoid the Bleaching with leads to some of the eccentric personalities they have x-x

Though I still think a Gnome AP would be cool, I just would probably play like a Halfling or whatever other ancestry works for the ap

[limber comet]

Gnomes are interesting, but being a perpetual adhd goblin is already my irl existence

[wooden orbit]

[limber comet]

Though a gnome ap could take place in the First World so like

That would be rad

[wooden orbit]

Remind me, the canonical ending of Kingmaker...was it ||the kingdom getting shifted over to the First World||?

[limber comet]

Uhhh

No clue

[surreal basin]

I believe not

The kingdom is ||at least still there just ambiguous because it’s the creation of the players|| in 2e iirc

[wary yoke]

I think a Small AP would be able to get more steam behind it; mostly encourage a mix of gnomes, goblins, halflings and the like

[crude socket]

||Creation of the players?||

[surreal basin]

||like…. The kingdom in kingmaker is inherently made my players so they refuse to canonize facts about other than that it exists||

[crude socket]

ah that, gotcha

[whole pilot]

Hii hi there. How optimised do characters have to be to stand a chance in a game when using published modules? My Cleric is ahhh at best. I feel like I'm an utter hinderance to my party. I'm a Travel and Freedom Domains Cleric.

[echo briar]

Is your wisdom +4 or your str +3?

One of those 2 things should be true

[whole pilot]

My Wisdom is a +6 without items.

[echo briar]

What level are you?

[whole pilot]

This character is level 18

[echo briar]

Did you start at level 18?

[warped orbit]

For casters, a lot of it is mostly spell selection

Do you have Heal or Harm font?

[whole pilot]

Wait, my WIsdom is 21, I have a +4 Headband, and +2 from my Ioun Stone that make it a 26. (DM ruled above 25 takes 2 points to increase the attribute)

No, I joined the campaign several levels ago.

Let me check my spell list.

[warped orbit]

Oh wait, are you playing PF1?

[whole pilot]

I am!

[echo briar]

Ignore everything we just said.

That was for 2e

[whole pilot]

Oh

[echo briar]

Yea, PF1 optimization is really based on the party. There should have been a session 0 to go over power expectations

[whole pilot]

I feel like I should have taken an architype for my class. I found out after playing for a little bit, that I'm the only one who doesn't have one.

I didn't even know about them until someone else mentioned they had one.

[echo briar]

I mean, you are a cleric, one of the best classes in the game. You should be fine with good spell selection

[whole pilot]

Oh I found something on my sheet

Original rolls
10, 17, 10, 15, 17, 14
Racial ability score adjustments
-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis
Item bonuses
+2 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Wis
+2 perma to Dex (+2 Dex skill book)

1st level Feat (Eschew Materials)
3rd level Feat 2 (Selective Channeling)
Level 4 ability score increase +1 to Wis
5th level Feat 3 (Dimensional Agility)
7th level Feat 4 (Quick Channel)
Level 8 ability score increase +1 to Wis
9th level Feat 5 (Dimensional Assault)
11th level Feat 6 (Combat Casting)
Level 12 ability score increase +1 to Int
13th level Feat 7 (Skill Focus - Spellcraft)
15th level Feat 8 (Extend Metamagic)
Level 16 ability score increase +1 Dex
17th level Feat 9 (Spell Pen)

[echo briar]

I don’t know enough about PF1 to tell you what good spell selection is, but if if you get it you should be fine

[solar storm]

Teamwork optimization is much more important than character optimization

[whole pilot]

That's valid

[solar storm]

Oh wait this is PF1

[whole pilot]

I normally just spend all my spells per day healing or buffing the party.

[solar storm]

All bets are off for me haha

[whole pilot]

I've had a little look at PF2, but never played it.

[echo briar]

In PF2, as long as your main stat is maxed you’re good, which is why I asked. PF1 is a whole different beast

[whole pilot]

My ability scores are this right now.
10, 24, 12, 16, 26, 14.
Other things that might be important.
162 HP
AC: 25 (28); Touch AC: 17; FF AC : 18 (21)
Brackets are for when I move, as I'm using Dancing Scarves.

Fort: 16; Ref: 16; Will:23
SR is 13 with my shield, or 30 when I use the SR spell.

This is after all my passive bonuses etc.

[silver geyser]

OK, so what feels unsatisfying about your character?

[whole pilot]

I think it's just that everyone else does what I do but twice as well, if not better.

Other than my Perception checks.

+60 on those checks go brrr with truesight. Provided I'm not in an antimagic field. Then it's only a +26

[ocean cobalt]

what are your other party members and what do you spend most combat rounds doing?

[echo briar]

yea, thats a difference of expectations that should have been covered at session 0

[whole pilot]

Barbarian, Monk, Summoner, Bard, Rogue, and a class that gets to throw bombs, which I'm not sure what it's called.

I spend combat trying to either keep the party alive, or using movement spells to get us out of bad situations. Or I might Chains of Light, or Dimensional Lock the enemy.

[echo briar]

a 7 player party is probably a huge part of that

[whole pilot]

Oooh. I also use Dispel Magic a LOT.

[ocean cobalt]

leaning more into debuffing could help

seems like you're doing a little of that already

[whole pilot]

Like, I'm having to cast spells like Life Bubble on the entire party in the City of Brass.

Luckily it's a spell I was allowed to get permanency on myself. So I only have to cast it for the other party members.

[ocean cobalt]

just making sure, you're aware that life bubble is 1 cast per party not 1 cast per person right

[whole pilot]

We needed it for whole days.

So I was spending like 3/6 of my 5th level slots each day just doing that.

[ocean cobalt]

you're level 18 right

[whole pilot]

Yee

36 hrs per cast I get.

[ocean cobalt]

ok so that's, at most, 1 cast of life bubble per day

[whole pilot]

The DM has a rule that spells end after we take a long rest, unless they have been permanency.

[ocean cobalt]

sure that makes sense but it still holds

[whole pilot]

Wait, I'm having to cast Life Bubble 4 times a day, not 3 times.

[ocean cobalt]

you will only be casting life bubble once per day barring very heavy use of dispel magic

[whole pilot]

I think I'm the only one using Dispel Magic.

[ocean cobalt]

you shouldn't have to cast life bubble any more than once per day

[whole pilot]

I recently found out I can hold an action to reaction cast Dispel Magic. That's fun.

Huh??

[ocean cobalt]

Target creatures touched, up to one/level
you can hit the entire rest of your party twice over

[whole pilot]

When you cast this spell it has a total duration of 2 hours per caster level. You can divide this duration up in any manner you wish, not necessarily equally, between up to 1 creature per caster level.

This is PF1e

[ocean cobalt]

ah

[whole pilot]

So Life Bubble only lasts 6 hours if I cast it on the rest of the party.

[ocean cobalt]

my bad then lol

it still sounds like you're filling an important niche tho

as in you're the only one in your party who can cast that spell

[whole pilot]

The Summoner can also cast it

[ocean cobalt]

how

[whole pilot]

Idk, they can also cast Greater Teleport

I got a Staff of Passage, just to be able to get us back and forth places.

[ocean cobalt]

teleport is a spell summoners get but life bubble definitely isnt

[whole pilot]

Oh

[ocean cobalt]

maybe they have an archetype or something

[whole pilot]

They have one, but I'm not sure what it's called. They also have the Fey Creature Template tooo.

[ocean cobalt]

ok it sounds like the majority of what you're doing is casting out-of-combat utility spells, which is important, but during the longest and most rules-intensive segments of the game can be boring because you aren't doing Your Thing

[whole pilot]

I'm completely fine with a support role. It's just feels hecks when other players do the only thing I'm okay at.
I think I'm just struggling with role clashing.

I think the most dumb thing I've done is Planeshift an enemy that was about to alert the rest of the dungeon while we where trying to stealth though it. Yes I have a Greater SIlent metamagic rod I used for it.

[ocean cobalt]

ok what are you routinely spending your spells on each day for non combat

you mentioned 3 5s for air bubble but what else

my recommendation is to start using Conditional Curse a lot more

[whole pilot]

What's Conditional Curse??

[ocean cobalt]

it doesn't sound like anyone in your party is huge on debuffing and that's one of the best ones

https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Conditional Curse

[whole pilot]

Restorations spells, Life Bubble, Spell Resistance, Word of Recall, Control Weather, Particulate Form, Discern Locations, Nine Lives, Miracle (Which I've only used for things the DM has gone, you will need a Miracle to progress the campaign).

[ocean cobalt]

that has the rest of the curses too which do the same thing but conditional just has major's beefy dc + distance and uses a lower spell level

wall of stone is the same amount of cracked in 1e that it is in 2e iirc

[whole pilot]

In combat I'm using Entropic Shield, Forbid Actions (and Greater), Sanctuary, Stone Shield, Protection from spells, Energy Resistance spells, Grace, Fly, Dispel Magic (and Greater), Dimension Door, Death Ward, Dimensional Anchor, Freedom of Movement, Breath of Life, Cleanse, SR, Chains of Light, Heal, Ethereal Jaunt, Regenerate, Dimensional Lock.
I missed Greater Stunning Barrier.

[ocean cobalt]

forbid action is good because it uses a really low level slot. idk how much you want greater if you're already on life bubble duty

[whole pilot]

I sometimes prepare Wall of Stone.

It just depends where we go, and if the area is made of stone or not.

[ocean cobalt]

right, forgot you need existing stone to cast it

[whole pilot]

Yeee. One thing 5e just yeets. Which I kind of hate.

[ocean cobalt]

then, idk it sounds like you're doing a pretty good job

[whole pilot]

Wait am I Liberation domain??

Or is that my PF Wrath of the Righteous character?

Veiloaria is my deity. and I just checked and she's a 3rd party deity. Ahh

Wait, Clerics get a weapon for free?

I'm going to ask if I can have other spells I can cast given permanency.

Stupid question, what happens to a permanency spell if dispell magic is used against it? Does it just end like normal?

[surreal basin]

Yes

Which AP are yall playing

[wary yoke]

It's the downside of permanency, and usually why you throw in some abjurations as well.

[limber comet]

Oh shit WoI might be shipping

[warped orbit]

oh nice

then we might be getting book info soon

[whole pilot]

Aww, okiee. So if I get Greater Dispel magic'ed I be sad. It's okayy though.

I've not at all spent like 100k gp on permanency spells.

[surreal basin]

So

The play for cleric most of the time

Outside of niche busted builds

Is buffing

They get some fucking bananas buffs on their lists

Hit your party members with their respective ability score increase magics, blessed weapons, etc

But also the sheer volume of healing that can tumble out of a cleric is a huge boon on its own

[whole pilot]

The thing I love about Clerics, is that I can spontaneously convert spell slots for healing.

[fast hill]

gonna be making a fighter with wizard dedication

[surreal basin]

Oh also

[fast hill]

is there any way to make that work with a two handed weapon

[surreal basin]

Got lost last time but

What AP are yall playing

[warped orbit]

I mean, what issues would you foresee there?

[surreal basin]

Yeah, there’s no rules about free hands being necessary to cast afaik

[warped orbit]

yeah

[fast hill]

oh damn

I thought you needed a free hand

[surreal basin]

Nope

[warped orbit]

only for material components, but I'm not sure if those are actually a thing anymore

[surreal basin]

And if you still want a staff I would direct you to the spellstriking stuff

Which has shifting

[warped orbit]

might just be specific spells that need a free hand now

[fast hill]

mmmm

[fast hill]

oh?

ahhh ic ic

this is cool

[warped orbit]

the biggest thing about casting dedications is that you can use scrolls

so you can buy stuff like scrolls of Haste or Invisibility, which can be very handy

or the ever classic Wand of Tailwind

[clever cobalt]

War of Immortals is starting to ship

or at least the orders are being started

[limber comet]

Exemplar is so close I can taste it

[rustic cape]

Animissssssst

[limber comet]

It's gonna be so peak

[surreal basin]

I’m so desperate for it

I couldn’t get this one early and it’s killing me

[rustic cape]

So my GM made an argument that this is actually perfect for an anarchist

Enforce proper hierarchies (none)

Topple illegitimate hierarchies (all)

Lead when you're most suited to the task (when named by a committee)

[trail nova]

Anathema also should never come up, as there is nobody who is lesser than you, since you are equal.

[rustic cape]

Yep

But also you hedge your bets because you never let anyone wield power over you or lead you

[fast hill]

realised that a fighter/wizard might not be as good as a ranger character...

this is for a MOTW type westmarch

[clever cobalt]

SOON

[fast hill]

finding art for fleshwarp character...

hell

[fast hill]

might make my character fighter/barb instead of fighter/wizard

fighter/barb looks like a lot of fun

its not very feat taxing, i.e I feel like I can just ignore most of the archetype feats

[rustic cape]

4 to 14 business days ...

It's between me and god Abadar Paizo the warehouse staff now

[clever cobalt]

Same

God I cannot wait

[echo briar]

After looking at the new orc players guide, I am unreasonably happy that there is no special rules in it. I can actually use a normal background without needing to homebrew anything or feeling left out

[clever cobalt]

Yay!

also it's a good guide

I eagerly await TotT

totally not biased by the fact Kholo are relevant for once

[echo briar]

They’re very relevant in SoT

[clever cobalt]

True

but still

[silver geyser]

SoT gives us a Kholo as best character.

[true delta]

I won't ahve time to play TotT but I support anything with good orcs in it.

[frank crystal]

I forget in PF2E, are demons or devils named after sins?

[limber comet]

Demons

[frank crystal]

Thanks

I’m trying to fit a character’s backstory into Golarion, and I’m kinda wondering what country would it make sense for an elf who was raised in a Druidic order to come from?

Specifically a country he left to become a sell sword

[turbid dagger]

Kyonin always works
Its the Elf Country, and most of it is wilderness

[frank crystal]

Isn’t a lot of that wilderness fucked up due treerazor though?

[clever cobalt]

Somewhat

There's still a lot of "pure" wilderness though

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[limber comet]

Tanglebriar isn't that large

It's big, but Kyonin is still mostly in tact

https://fixupx.com/paizo/status/1844785095304978764?t=qS0gNXBkPDYQNmykbXjJtg&s=19

[frank crystal]

Oh cool

[clever cobalt]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6xlex?Mythic-Magic

They sound neat

[limber comet]

It's peak

[crystal walrus]

if i'm making a one shot for 2e...

what's a good level

considering 1, but is there a case for higher?

[sinful gyro]

I'd go a bit higher

Gets around low level lethality and let's players make more varied builds

Also makes healing between encounters easier

Opens up the enemy variety you can use

[crystal walrus]

I'd be doing pregens too

like First time one shot

[sinful gyro]

More varied pregens then

Well if its a first time intro, I'd do the beginner box

[crystal walrus]

to sound incredibly cheap

i was hoping to avoid paying more than what i paid for the player and gm core 😅

[warped orbit]

you can also check out any of the oneshots they made for Free RPG Day

[crystal walrus]

I will take this all under advisement, though. Thanks both.

[rustic cape]

How experienced are the players?

[crystal walrus]

in 2e? not.

[rustic cape]

3 is good

[crystal walrus]

in everything else? Anyone i'd be running it for has been dunked into the other rpg bucket as well as 5e.

[rustic cape]

Level 3 gives everyone a bit more stuff of various types but won't make them too complicated

[crystal walrus]

Sick as heck

[rustic cape]

And if anyone's playing a caster it'll give them a few relative nukes

[crystal walrus]

... I'll come back for tips later i think

[fast hill]

campaign idea... a gang of dwarves working for a natural resource company in alkenstar in which they descend into dungeons, caverns and mines to extract various goodies from the earth...

deep rock galactic

sorry

deep rock fantastic

[sinful gyro]

I think I can get it for you for free

Yeah I've got a humble bundle key with the beginner box in

You want it?

[crystal walrus]

ah - it's like 1am right now sorry for not responding

that's very nice of you, are you sure?

[dapper tusk]

holy shit

that second line is one of the funniest sentences i have ever seen in an RPG

[silver geyser]

I would save it for a nat 20

[frank crystal]

Hmm, I’m thinking of a homebrew monk stance called bull stance

And for the passive bonus, part of me was thinking a circumstance bonus to speed if you move in a straight line

Is there any easy to word that?

[sinful gyro]

Hey, tried to PM you the code but can't due to your PM settings, mind adding me so I can send it over?

[clever cobalt]

7 turns of set up only to lose it all when the Boss uses reactive strike on your spellstrike

[echo briar]

How the hell are most people playing magus? It’s like 1 turn of setup if that, often 0

[rustic cape]

Also it has spell slots specifically for support

Several of them, even

[light gyro]

focus spells are a scam invented by big paizo to sell you short rests

for the first time in my life i have GM writer's block. fuckin. what do i slap together as a low level dungeon adventure.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah a lot of magus memes are 'i have never played with or played as this class, surely all the fumes I've huffed on reddit will make up for this'

[light gyro]

the laughing shadow in my strength of thousands game constantly kicks ass even after they fail their deception checks to feint. skill issue on reddit's part tbh.

[true delta]

A friend has turned out to be a changeling and is seeking their mother in the Underbog. Go and find them before they are harmed by the great dangers there.

Or: A Sweet Hag and Hänsel & Gretel. A classic.

[silver geyser]

Fine. I will resume The Project

[silver geyser]

Onwards to Level 12. 51 creatures total The list of creatures is as follows:

Athach (Gets an extra reaction for RS for its claw)
Kokogiak
Valkyrie
Wight Commander

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 111/1,308. There are now 260 creatures left to go through, and this actually lowered the percentage to 8.4%

If this project has taught me anything so far, you have to worry about creatures hitting you when you Strike them about as much as you do Reactive Strike.

So many Dragons have a reaction for example, but slip the Manipulate trigger that I set out for this project

[light gyro]

any stat blocks to capture the idea of like, a possessed corpse? low-level, specifically

[rustic cape]

I take it you want something more than a zombie?

[silver geyser]

Level 13 time. 46 creatures, these are the ones with RS or a manipulate trigger:

Adult Bronze Dragon (jaws only, but 15 foot reach)
Gelugon
Greater Chimera (Gets 2 extra reactions thanks to multiple heads)
Millindemalion (Can Hat Toss instead of a normal attack)
Shadow Giant
Snow Oni
Terra-Cotta Garrison (This is a troop!)

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 118/1,354. Percentage is at 8.7%

[light gyro]

they dont have to be particularly strong, just able to pass as 'alive' until shit hits the fan. thinking a reskinned yellow musk thrall atm

[rustic cape]

Seems reasonable

[silver geyser]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=500

[light gyro]

oh god. good idea tho

also realising this one-shot has inadvertently warped into resident evil 4

[crystal walrus]

Oh there's one that spawns from people who die from magic

Venedemons

[light gyro]

Funny you should mention that, that's my boss monster for the oneshot

[silver geyser]

And Level 14. 50 creatures, yadda yadda:

Adult Red Dragon (jaws only)
Caldera Oni
Crag Linnorm (Tail only)
Graveknight Warmaster
Sunscale Serpent (Tail Only)
Vault Keeper

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 124/1,404. Still sitting over in 8 percent, but creeping up on 9!

So while I'm looking at level 15, I have found a really cool Lich type.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1876

Like, excuse me, multi-body Lichdom? That's just rad.

[frank crystal]

Yah the horde lich is rad

One of my major villains is one

[silver geyser]

A good choice tbh.

[silver geyser]

Onwards to level 15. We're in the final stretch here. 39 Creatures, the following with Reactive Strike:

Adult Diabolic Dragon
Adult Umbral Dragon (Jaws only)
Grand Defender (Our first Unique creature! Torag's Herald)
Jotund Troll (Gets an additional 8 thanks to multiple heads)
Marut
Shoal Linnorm (Tail only)
Toshigami

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 131/1,443. Officially at 9% now.

[rustic cape]

It must pick up later on

Which is ... interesting

[silver geyser]

It's actually pretty consistent throughout so far.

The big thing is just that there's less creatures as you go up in level, so the ratio increases.

[rapid wagon]

question

if im a shield paladin, and i put down a damaged shield, can it break instantly? Cause it might lose its reinforcing rune?

[surreal basin]

I think your shield ally retains its stuff even if you’re not touching it but if make it not your ally then yes it could blow up

[rapid wagon]

ah my understanding is that when its in my hands

it gets the reinforcing rune, so i could pick up any shield and reinforce it BUT that shield doesn't stay reinforced outside of me holding it

(which is annoying to manage in a VTT)

[frank crystal]

Hmm, what do you get out of champion archetype?

[warped orbit]

Easy access to the reaction mainly

Also heavy armor prof (if you already have some armor prof)

[frank crystal]

Eh this will be for a dex character so that doesn’t really matter

[warped orbit]

The reaction is still super good

[frank crystal]

Oh yah I’m only referring to the heavy armor prof

The reaction is really nice

[limber comet]

Generally you're poaching champ for the reaction

[silver geyser]

Level 16 is here. 29 creatures, and finally one of the creatures has something that triggers off of Manipulate!

Fjord Linnorm (Tail only)
Grootslang
Lesser Death (Did you make a ranged attack, move, concentrate, or manipulate while within 60 feet of this thing? Well then, eat shit.)
Prismhydra (7 additional reactions for Reactive Strike)
Rune Giant (Additional reaction each round for Reactive Strike. Also, this thing has a 25 foot reach)
Vilderavn
Warsworn
Zaramuun

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 139/1,472. Jesus, this level has some nasty things in it.

Also, the RS is the least dangerous part about the Zaramuun. That thing has Planar Ally

And another wild creature concept spotted.

The unholy terror known as the thruneosaurus rex is not a natural beast. They were created by Chelaxian diabolists who sought to combine the ferocity of dinosaurs with the power of Hell, infusing a clutch of tyrannosaurus rex eggs from Mediogalti Island with devil ichor and naming the monstrous hatchlings after their patrons. Although few records and fewer survivors tell exactly how the experiment went awry, the experimental subjects escaped, and their descendants are now most often sighted in the Whisperwood in eastern Cheliax.

Experimental Hell T-Rex goes hard.

[limber comet]

Cheliax moment

[rapid wagon]

homebrewing question; what kind of counterbalancing effect would you have to a narrative bonus feat that debuffs your ability to decieve, disguise, and effectively attempt to lie or deceive anyone?

My character had a 3rd party Flaw called Blatant back in pf1 and it was great for RP

would like to have it again

but not sure how id balance out the negatives

[light gyro]

hero point whenever you fail a roll you have the relevant penalty to
we storygames now

[rapid wagon]

effectively my character is absolutely trash at lying, disguising, bluffing, etc

he's painfully honest

[warped orbit]

tbh, just not having Deception prof will already mean you basically can't lie for shit

[rustic cape]

Yeah, I have just not taken any social skills but society on my animist

And not given her any charisma

And that’s more than enough

[clever cobalt]

I wonder if Mythic rolls are gonna count as Fortune Effects

or if they can be Hero Point'd

[warped orbit]

I'd assume they aren't Fortune

since it just increases your proficiency basically

[rustic cape]

I feel like they should occur on their own terms

But maybe I’m conceptualizing mythic wrong

[warped orbit]

it is also still a bit weird to me that the effective bonus from Mythic points goes down over time

[rustic cape]

I really like that

I see it as … almost like moments of a higher conceptual reality manifesting in the familiar one

[silver geyser]

And onwards, to level 17! 24 creatures, and we're back to just Reactive Strike.

Bandersnatch (Tail only)
Cuetzmonquali (Unique Creature again)
Ice Linnorm (Tail only)
Island Oni
Keketar
Marilith (Gets 5 extra reactions)

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 145/1,496.

[rustic cape]

Finally reached 1/10

[rustic cape]

But yeah my read is that it’s not “you get +8 to a roll”, it’s “for a moment, you can do the kind of crazy shit that happens in the mythic reality”

[warped orbit]

flavorwise I can kinda see it
but mechanically it's really weird to me that it becomes less effective at higher levels, instead of staying at the same effectiveness

[silver geyser]

Right? It only took 19 levels of creatures.

[rustic cape]

I figure they intend for you to progress towards you using the points on more interesting stuff

[warped orbit]

possibly

you will probably get some cool stuff to spend it on from your Mythic stuff

[silver geyser]

It has the fun effect of people who becoming good-good at their chosen stuff are inherently mythic. 😛

[rustic cape]

Yeah, that’s part of what I like

The diegetic implication is that a 13th level rogue’s reflexes border on divine

That kind of thing

[silver geyser]

Wow, hard to believe I only have 4 more chunks to do.

21-25 is all going in one

[echo briar]

They can not be hero pointed because they replace hero points.

[rustic cape]

Oh huh

That makes sense

[warped orbit]

oh, I had read they are separate

but it's been somewhat unclear

[echo briar]

I didn’t even know creatures even went to level 355,687,428,096,000

[warped orbit]

which, I do personally think making them replace Hero Points fully is not great actually

[rustic cape]

There’s gotta be a more regulated flow of them if so

[surreal basin]

Can you cite this? I haven’t seen this anywhere

Like even when they did the blogpost explaining mythic points they didn’t say that

And in all of the breakdowns people have done on Reddit I’ve not seen it said

[silver geyser]

Level 18 is here. 26 creatures, this is the list of RS

Ancient Bronze Dragon (Jaws only)
Cairn Linnorm (tail only)
Mocking Chorus (Gets 9 extra reactions for it per turn. Hail Hydra)
Simurgh
Urveth (Claw only, but it gets 3 extra reactions for it)

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 150/1522. At 9.8 percent. Just barely shy of 10.

[frank crystal]

Would 1d8 piercing, with the push tag and a bonus to speed if you move in a straight line be in line with the strength of other monk stances?

[turbid dagger]

I think thats already a thing in the tian xia world guide
Rushing goat stance

[frank crystal]

Oh shit

I haven’t read that book yet

Oh huh

It even occupies a similar niche of moving before attacking I was planning for this stance

Gonna need to rework this whole thing then

[turbid dagger]

😭

[frank crystal]

Hmm, also either way it seems actually the stance was super weak to begin with

1d8 with only push is super behind other monk stances

Hmm, besides charging bulls also are known for violently thrashing about

Could maybe incorporate some of that?

Just tossing people off you, like a push everyone adjacent to you 5 feet kinda deal?

And the passive being easier escapes from grapples?

Are there any other feats for ram stance besides Five-Gods ram?

[warped orbit]

The Tian Xia book apparently had a bunch of new alchemical items buffing unarmed

https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e/items/iron-wine
https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e/items/rainbow-vinegar
https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e/items/viperous-elixir

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

Oh shit iron wine and rainbow vinegar are kinda crazy

They’re just additional damage dice

With penalties only coming up if you drink more then 1

[warped orbit]

yeah it's more or less free damage

[frank crystal]

Also rainbow vinegar just, seems kinda better tbh?

Like it’s the same damage but also gives electricity resistance and additional damage against vampires if you’re fighting them

[surreal basin]

Good thing they stack

With each other

;3

[frank crystal]

Oh yah they do huh

Yah these are crazy

I’m making my next monk alcoholic

[frank crystal]

Are there any monk stances that have 2 attacks like an animal barb stance?

[echo briar]

It is 3 levels higher

[frank crystal]

I mean yah but it’s not a rune so it’s not like you can’t use it also with like, a flaming rune

[echo briar]

Yea, but the complaint was that a level 4 item was better than a level 1 item. That is how item level should work

[frank crystal]

Oh, yah sorry I misunderstood

I thought you were saying the wine and vinegar were level 3

Not that the vinegar was a higher level item

I didn’t notice that I assumed they were the same level but just had different damage types

[frank crystal]

What would be a good name for a gunslinger way focused on shield and pistol?

Like classic riot shield loadout l

[turbid dagger]

Oh my goddddd
I feel like a Bastard
Running Abomination Vaults
My team is fighting ||Volluk||
He casts Suggestion on our main martial
They fail, no hero points
Can't be self destructive
His suggestion?
||'leave the abomination vaults'||

OUR BARD COUNTER PERFORMED IT
POGGING MY GOURD OFF

[turbid dagger]

😈

||For those not In The Know, you have to destroy every single worm for a worm that walks to stay dead, if you just leave them be after breaking the mass up they'll come back||

[turbid dagger]

Update: He did the same thing on the bard himself and he failed the counter performance 💀

The team is thinking about running

[fast hill]

I've built my new fighter character

fighter with barb multiclass

gonna use a greatpick

and take the giant instinct when I get to my dedication

just realised giant instinct barb with double slice would be crazy damage

[frank crystal]

Very

[fast hill]

Yeah giant instinct is looking like the best option for fighter/barb

[fast hill]

also looking at the idea of a dragon instinct lizardfolk

sharp fangs would be such a cool feat to take and do a primarily natural weapon option

[silver geyser]

Today sees us on the final stretch. Level 19 has 16 creatures

Ancient Red Dragon (Jaws only)
Grendel (Gets an extra reaction for a... Claw? But he doesn't have claws??)
Taiga Linnorm (Tail only)

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 153/1538

[dapper tusk]

why do both of the characters in the Blood Lords art look so bored

[turbid dagger]

Sajan has no clue what he's doing in this AP and that's just how Selytiel is
He's a freak of nature, he's a magus casting a spell without spellstrike

And it looks like a save spell too
Just horrid

[rustic cape]

They’re health inspectors

Boredom and civil service go hand in hand

[frank crystal]

Hmm, what would be the best way to word a gunslinger feat that like, plants a shield into the ground and gives you raise a shield until you move?

[rustic cape]

So like a portable cover sniper?

[frank crystal]

Yah

Those shields you’re supposed to put down

I don’t remember the name

Pavise?

[silver geyser]

Gain the benefits of Raise Shield until you have moved.

[frank crystal]

Yah a pavise

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[silver geyser]

Good Ole Fortify Position

[frank crystal]

Wait is that already a feat?

[rustic cape]

Does it free up the hand as well

[frank crystal]

But also second question, for this feat I also wanna include a thing that interacts with Fatal Aim, essentially swapping your weapon to two hands automatically if the weapon you’re wielding has the tag

[frank crystal]

Yah I was literally about to ask how to word that essentially

[thorny berry]

I know I played around with the idea of a sniper gunslinger Taking Cover behind a tower shield

[frank crystal]

Same

I wanna make this a whole way though

Shield gunslinger

Just need a name rn

[thorny berry]

'vanguard but good'

[frank crystal]

I like vanguard, I just wish scatter weapons were good

[thorny berry]

imo vanguard would be fine if it had that pseudo raise a gun/shield as its reload instead of shove

[frank crystal]

Funnily enough that is what I’m planning for this reload

[thorny berry]

or even just getting Running Reload instead of having to burn a feat on it

[thorny berry]

sounds cool

[frank crystal]

Honestly I do kinda wish running reload wasn’t so essential for most gunslinger builds

Also 3 feats for every set of levels is generally the minimum for ancestries right?

[turbid dagger]

I'm perilously close to making an sf2e riot shield operative build thats actually good
It just needs a way to reload without a free hand
Liskarm................................................................................

[frank crystal]

What’s a liskarm?

[rustic cape]

Arknights character

https://ak.gamepress.gg/sites/default/files/2019-10/char_107_liskam_1.png

She’s a mercenary

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

[rustic cape]

She can also shoot lightning out of the gun

Because guns in AK are a form of wizardry

[clever cobalt]

Sorry, the only Arknights character I know os Tachanka

[echo briar]

if a check requires "any lore", can you use esoteric lore?

[rustic cape]

Should be able to

Might require Diverse Lore, depending on wording I can't remember

[surreal basin]

What check requires any more?

*lore

[echo briar]

Studying in SoT.

Particularly the Uzunjati

[worthy stump]

oh that one, yeah. Esoteric Lore should work just fine then, it is still technically a Lore

[rapid wagon]

Do yall do any homebrew lores?

[worthy stump]

plenty. Lore is already fairly open ended as a category, and especially in my homebrew world there's plenty of stuff for specific Lores to support

[frank crystal]

I run a fully homebrew setting

Oh wait lore skills

Nah not really

[sharp bluff]

I sometimes do

[light gyro]

Just get your beautiful fox wife to reload for you

[frozen hatch]

Had a friend who was considering playing an asmodean advocate cleric with pact savant (so not to be evil or evil aura) in an upcoming Hell's Rebels game and I was curious if their idea would actually work mechanically and in the adventure path? https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo-cleric-archetypes/asmodean-advocate-cleric-archetype/

[wary yoke]

What is pact savant?

[frozen hatch]

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/pact-servant-faith/

[rustic cape]

I think it’ll be fine mechanically

[wary yoke]

It works but you don't lose the aura

[rustic cape]

Losing a domain is rough but

You’re still a cleric

[wary yoke]

Pact servant only changes Asmodeus's alignment in relation to your own; you could be LG and take that trait, but since the head devil is still LE, you still have auras of Evil and Law.

[trail nova]

It would be really rough in that AP IIRC.

[frozen hatch]

That's what I figured

[light gyro]

party's gone to akiton, looking for vaguely marsy music. currently combing through fallout 1 and 2's osts

[light gyro]

bit of a dungeon im working on for a horror one-shot

[echo briar]

Wow, that’s one messed up ring finger

[echo briar]

First WotI leaks ||the word “the” appears on page 37||

I learned this second hand, and so can not directly confirm it

[warped orbit]

big if true

[echo briar]

Yea, the implication that ||there are at least 37 pages|| is crazy

[clever cobalt]

I have a dark secret

||it's actually 224 pages||

[echo briar]

||I said at least||

[clever cobalt]

Anyways got confirmation it ships tomorrow

Hopefully including mine

[keen raptor]

InB4 page 37 is full page artwork

[wooden orbit]

If I was to subscribe for the rulebooks today would I get the pdf tomorrow?

[echo briar]

its when they send your book out

and that takes a bit

[wooden orbit]

[clever cobalt]

Gatewalking Shenanigans, part 2

(from Luis Loza)

[wooden orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-one-piece-chopper-chopper-one-piece-shock-one-piece-scared-gif-26294453

[clever cobalt]

👀

[rustic cape]

All of them eh

[rustic cape]

I hope it’s take 2 and they pretend Gatewalkers didn’t happen :P

[clever cobalt]

Fair

I don't mind what Gatewalkers was trying to do. But it did it very oddly

[frank crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/all-of-them-piccolo-dragon-ball-z-dragon-ball-anime-gif-17874023

[surreal basin]

Gatewalkers is overall fine but has some specific glaring issues

||mainly that there’s 0 art of Rittleson in even remotely trustworthy lights, sakawachi (I do not know how her name is spelled) and her visions being extremely strange plot points in book 2, and the general vibe that it should’ve been higher level||

[turbid dagger]

Its odd because its a 1 to 10 right?
It seems like a fairly easy issue to avoid by making it an 11-20
Unless they were like, badly overdue for a 1 to 10?

[limber comet]

Ustalav about to get nuked

Bye bye scary land

[surreal basin]

I think they said that they were discouraged from doing too many 11-20s

Because they don’t sell as well

Very IIRC

[turbid dagger]

😔

[limber comet]

And now we're getting a lot more of them

[turbid dagger]

I love 11-20s...........................
Please let me skip the wait to all the cool stuff

[surreal basin]

I wish more people would play 1-20’s, I’m extremely said they’re not doing them much anymore

[limber comet]

I mean we just had curtain call and then immediately after triumph of the tusk we go RIGHT into spore war

[surreal basin]

I mean I think that’s more a result of WOI being more on the high level scale of world events

[limber comet]

I mean if we do get a new 1-20

It's gonna probably be mythic

[rustic cape]

It's also ... disjointed

Like weird shit keeps happening and it doesn't feel extremely connected

[turbid dagger]

Doing my part, playing SOT!
But like
I get it, honestly
That's soooooo much RPG

[rustic cape]

I want 1-6s, 7-14s, and 15-20s

[surreal basin]

Grumble grumble about SOT
But yeah fair

I’ve played in

[turbid dagger]

Oh also Kingmaker!

[surreal basin]

…. I think every 1-20 except for age of ashes and edgewatch

At this point

And kingmaker but that’s soon

[turbid dagger]

Though where we left off uhhhhhhhh
I fear for my Kingmaker group
We may wipe, or at least lose people

[surreal basin]

(I also don’t really considering kingmaker a 2e AP per say but that’s neither here nor there)

[rustic cape]

They could call them expert, master, and legendary

Since those are what you can get up to with skills at those levels

It'd be rad

[surreal basin]

That’s fair but those would also be like

Single book adventures

They would be cool but I wouldn’t really want them to be like

The primary release format

[rustic cape]

Nah I'm not saying they should be all

I just think they should establish various patterns

[clever cobalt]

Also I'm eager to see what the Mythic items are

[surreal basin]

I just need mythic in general in my veins

[clever cobalt]

same

I'm also very eager for the Golarion Gazeteer section personally >_>

[limber comet]

I need all of it

I need all of the new options

[echo briar]

More WotI spoilers ||despite popular demand, they did not rename the animist to "spooky Dan"||

||whether or not the exemplar is now called "You know, the guy who did the thing, no not that thing the other thing, the one with the weapon and the body and the item. That thing" is still unconfirmed, but I hope it is the case||

[surreal basin]

Chat

How do we feel about archetypes centered around specific weapons

Like

Making bad/unimpressive weapons good

Like the whip or spear

[silver geyser]

S P E A R

[limber comet]

Belmont moment

[surreal basin]

Honestly it would go a long way to the spear being good if it could be martial one handed

[craggy thunder]

Aldori Duelist does not inspire confidence in Paizo's ability to make them good

[surreal basin]

Oh sorry yeah I mean I was thinking about making them

Probably would make them stance based

[craggy thunder]

lmao fair

[surreal basin]

Like a spear and shield stance and a free handed whip stance

[craggy thunder]

Attack and Shield Raise action compression be like

[surreal basin]

The free hand stance for whip would actually be based on the way Trevor Belmont uses the whip in the castlevania anime

Where he uses his arm as a lever

/pivot point

(Make it Two Hand D8 essentially but you don’t literally need two hands, you need a hand free to be in the stance?)

[echo briar]

the problem is that thats a focus spell https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1041

[surreal basin]

Could make it like once per 10 minutes or only while you’re in this specific stance I guess

[trail nova]

Adori Duelist is so funny because in the lore they're brilliant swordmasters and duelists, completely unmatched, while in both editions of PF they have some of the worst mechanics I've ever read. (1e Aldori Swordmasters had probably some of the worst feats in the system. And basically no gems. Trust me, I've looked.)

[surreal basin]

It is really funny yeah cause they keep like

Making the archetype a thing

And then making it not about dueling

[trail nova]

(And I'm the person who insists that 1e Performance Combat feats are secretly broken good once you invest.)

[craggy thunder]

It has worse progression as a one handed and empty hand duelist

Than the classes who are most likely to take this archetype

Agony

[solar storm]

We need an "Altdori Marketer" Archetype

[craggy thunder]

The only time I've genuinely considered Aldori Duelist a good pick

Is as a fucking Investigator

[surreal basin]

I was also just thinking of making a weapon that’s identical to a longspear but it’s martial and one handed

Or just making a Pike that’s a martial longspear but with- THE POINT IS

I want more good spears

[solar storm]

I think a Sarissa could be interesting

[surreal basin]

Unfortunately Paizo thinks a good spear is called a polearm :p

[solar storm]

But is probably not a good fit for Pathfinder

[surreal basin]

Oh the crazy long pikes

[craggy thunder]

I mean counterpoint the falcata is in Pathfinder and fits fine

[echo briar]

so a pre errata flickmace?

[surreal basin]

Was that all that was

[solar storm]

They're more just spears but yeah the notable thing is just being VERY long

[echo briar]

1d8 reach 1 handed weapon

[solar storm]

Something like reach 20' volley 10'

[surreal basin]

/shrug sure
Tbh I think it not being a flail is also like

Erasing 90% of why it was everywhere

[echo briar]

no, that was the reach

[surreal basin]

I guess it would be better to go D6 reach then

[echo briar]

that would likely be the best advanced weapon in the game

[surreal basin]

And like….. agile or something idk

Bracing

One of the bad traits

[echo briar]

that already exists, with razing

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah right it’s just specifically a hobgoblin weapon

Which always fucks with me

[craggy thunder]

god

[surreal basin]

Always forget that thing exists

[craggy thunder]

phalanx piercer

so close to greatness

yet so far

[echo briar]

they need to make a simple axe

just one

[surreal basin]

Yeah I think take hobgoblin off that spear, replace razing with bracing, and like

That’s a p good like, representation of a spear for like, a lineman

Like a phalanx spear

[craggy thunder]

If you don't homebrew that phalanx piercer works with crossbow reload feats

you're no fun lol

[surreal basin]

And then for an actual pike,

Take a longspear and maybe… make it d10 with shove?

Which gives it a different niche than glance

*glaive

[surreal basin]

So ultimately

I think this would work in the context it was being discussed

Because you would be forced to use a spear which isn’t a super optimal weapon

[echo briar]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=138 exists in polearm form

[surreal basin]

Huh

Wild

Anyway make that a spear!!!!

Why is that a polearm? It’s literally a longspear fitted with hooks

grumble grumble

That is a good weapon for a dragoon tho, I was trying to find something along these lines a bit ago

I think I combined it and the hobgoblins breaching spear in my head

[echo briar]

Because a spear is a “long stick with a sharp bit”, and a polearm is a long stick with things other than a sharp bit, but can exist in addition to a sharp bit

I can guarantee that is the dividing line to Paizo, is there something other than a spear head on the other end

[surreal basin]

😦

[echo briar]

Also because like, a spear is a type of polearm

It is a weapon (an arm) that primarily consists of a pole

[surreal basin]

Oh I mean for sure

They should be probably be merged

But if they ARENT a pike not being a spear is silly

[echo briar]

There should just be 3 weapons, pole arms, blades, and blunt objects

[surreal basin]

whacks you

[silver geyser]

Axes?

[echo briar]

blade/blunt object hybrid

[turbid dagger]

I will say- champion gets stride+shield+strike for two actions as a level 1 feat, so an Archetype solely devoted to spear and shield getting shield+strike for one is probably fine
Since you would be getting it at a minimum of level 4 (unless it's part of the dedication like spirit warriors flurry I guess)

Confluxes are weird because they all also have the unstated extra effect of 'recharge Spellstrike'

[rustic cape]

Nah it’s supposed to be axes, swords, and polearms

Blunts fall under axe

[clever cobalt]

Today's the day!

[echo briar]

When someone gets WotI ping me

[clever cobalt]

Will do

[carmine egret]

Absolute Destiny Apocalypse

[echo briar]

WotI spoilers ||there is a war. It may include immortals. My sources are not quite sure||

[rustic cape]

WotI spoilers ||https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ||

[wooden orbit]

[echo briar]

HotW spoilers ||there’s some cool new advanced animal companions you can get at higher levels, including some flying mounts at level 14 and 16||

[limber comet]

Lmao

[echo briar]

Does anyone else find it kinda odd that we have been given 0 official information on how the classes changed in the playtest? Usually they use that to build excitement

[clever cobalt]

Do they? I admittedly forgot that, it's been a while since the last class came out

[echo briar]

yea, although to be fair they did do it with the class architypes, so maybe they though 3 class architypes were more hype than 2 classes

or they're saving them for like now

[limber comet]

That was forever ago lmao

They already did the playtest thing like forever ago

[clever cobalt]

Over a year iirc

Beginning of October last year

[limber comet]

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/war-of-immortals-playtest-wrap-up-blog.914254/

[rapid wagon]

wait is the spear considered bad?

woops chat just updated

sry

[clever cobalt]

So yeah, over a Year ago

[echo briar]

no, they also do something closer to release

[limber comet]

Shrug

[echo briar]

also there is a spear fighter class architype coming

[rustic cape]

We heard a while back that there will be more spirits for animists and that's all that matters to me XD

[rapid wagon]

spear being "bad" perse, there's nothing saying you can't be effective if you wanted to focus on spear usage with a character right?

[steel blade]

i just want previews of the new Exemplar stuff we got a new Animist spirit a while back iirc, but we havent gotten a look at any of the new Ikons or anything i dont think

[limber comet]

I'm waiting so impatiently for Divine Mysteries

It seems like every god is getting sacred colors and sacred animals, not just the core 20

Pretty rad ngl

[turbid dagger]

We did get a bit of it in the wrapup way back
Notably they did go 'yeah an unarmed ikon is coming'
And in the most recent stream they showed the art and name for that Ikon!
Hands Of The Wildling

[limber comet]

Enkidu catfolk

[wooden orbit]

https://youtu.be/RxvK65p9nuo

[warped orbit]

the basic spear mostly suffers from the fact its simple

[tough perch]

i mean it's not unusable. it's just a simple weapon. the only ways to build around it i can think of though are deadly simplicity or playing ruffian

outside of those two situations you probably can pick something better, but using a spear isn't going to make you useless

[warped orbit]

if you wanted to use a spear, and you have martial prof (which you likely do), there's basically no reason not to use a trident instead

it's the same thing, but just better

the spear group as a whole has some good weapons, but most of the good ones are two handed

[tough perch]

trident doesn't really have anything tridenty besides it's name, you can just pick it and reskin it as a fancy spear if you don't like the poseidon aesthetics

poseidon/gladiator

[warped orbit]

though there is also the breaching pike now

which is probably overall the best choice if you wanted to do a shield and spear type thing

[wooden orbit]

I see orc wedding in that trailer, therefore I expect to be able to take part in an orc wedding in the ap

[tough perch]

it's also uncommon, so it depends on GM and how much you want to invest to get that reach

[carmine egret]

You can take part in an orc wedding in any AP if you just romance an orc

[wooden orbit]

I will hit my gm with a glove if we do not get to take part in a wedding in the ap

[tough perch]

become the orc wedding you want to see in the world

[solar tendon]

our sot game probably would've had an orc wedding :(

it did get to have orc parents propositioning other parents though

[wooden orbit]

Like when you say this....was it "The couple across the room likes your vibes" vibe?

[limber comet]

Mud bacon

[solar tendon]

umm, pretty much

[limber comet]

That's apparently a spoiler for Triumph of the Tusk vol 3

I don't know what it means

[wooden orbit]

Mud bacon?

[limber comet]

Yeah

[wooden orbit]

Mud bacon....I got no clue what that means

[limber comet]

I'm pretty sure the implication was that we get to dungeon meshi a sand leviathan

[wooden orbit]

Ahh

[limber comet]

Yummers...

[wooden orbit]

-grabs head and neck, drops to the floor-

[limber comet]

ACK

DID YOU JUST CHOKESLAM ME

[wooden orbit]

Actually

https://tenor.com/view/randy-orton-randy-orton-rko-rko-cutter-smackdown-vs-raw-gif-5307408162116178545

[limber comet]

Average orc vs megafauna fight

Also

Just found out he's the god of kissing your homies gn

Gotta worship him tbh

[wooden orbit]

Preach

[carmine egret]

It's only right that a buff furry would serve the role

[limber comet]

A werebear giant too

[fast hill]

been having some thoughts towards a pf2e game where the players are part of a group that fled underground to escape some apocalyptic event and think it would be very cool for a survival oriented game but idk if pf2e can really do that

[limber comet]

It would be more heroic survival

But it's doable

[fast hill]

create water and create food kinda breaks it down

[limber comet]

You can always just ban those spells for the sake of the game

[fast hill]

maybe

I might also use create food in other ways

[limber comet]

Just explain to your players "hey this is the vibe I'm going for, so these spells can't be used, or are extremely rare in the context you find yourself in"

[fast hill]

cant find the ingredients for the potion you want to craft? potions are usually made from edible but unappealing ingredients...

[limber comet]

You could also say that the food created by spells isn't nourishing enough to be consumed repeatedly