Pathfinder

[silver geyser]

And 91 for Level 8 monsters!

Ankhrav Hive Mother
Chimera
Fallen Champion
Krooth
Mountain Oni
Onidoshi
Sandpoint Devil
Snapdrake
Two-Headed Troll (2 reactions thanks to how two-headedness works)

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 76/1030. Still standing at 7%.

[echo briar]

Do elves know they came from another planet, or do they think it’s a different plane?

[clever cobalt]

They know

They have space boats

[warped orbit]

they know IIRC

[clever cobalt]

Plus the planet is like, one over

It's not halfway across the galaxy

[warped orbit]

and also intentionally hide that fact, because they don't want people coming over to Castrovel IIRC

[echo briar]

I thought they used elf gates

[clever cobalt]

They have both

[limber comet]

I thought it would be interesting if the elves on Golarion and Castrovel were aware of each other but didn't regularly communicate

Basically "send a letter" every couple centuries

[clever cobalt]

That's sorta the case?

It isn't like they're in constant conversation

[echo briar]

Wait, Tolkien could meet an elf at this time.

I can’t decide if he would be fascinated with “real” elves, or disappointed

[limber comet]

Probably something between the two

[heavy mesa]

He’d 100% steal stuff for conlanging

[echo briar]

I bet he would see the deities as false idols and would try to spread Catholicism

Alternatively he has one hell of a crisis of faith when these gods have way more proof of their existence than his

I also think he would be fascinated by thaumaturgy, but very annoyed by gunslingers

He doesn’t seem like he would have a problem with gunpowder, but he would have a problem with hero’s using it. Guns are tools of evil

Guns could also just trigger his WWI PTSD and make him lose all wonder for the other fantasy elements

[heavy mesa]

He’d probably bluescreen looking at the orcs being swole and huge instead of tiny and misshapen

And also them being distinct from goblins

[echo briar]

I feel like he would be ok with that.

He’d also probably be ok with them not being inherently evil. He had a lot of regrets about that later in life, as Catholicism says that if it’s sentient, it can always choose to be good

[rapid wagon]

wait i thought elves were fey

or feyblooded anyway, didn't realize they were from space

[echo briar]

That’s gnomes (or dnd elves)

[rapid wagon]

huh

[silver geyser]

Level 9 brings us 77 creatures, the following of which have Reactive Strike (Still nothing that cares about Manipulate otherwise)

Dread Wraith
Frost Giant
Mummy Pharoah (Their Reactive Strike also gets to trigger off concentrate, and will interrupt on a hit instead of on-crit)
Nightwood Guardian
Nuckelavee
Stargut Hydra (Normal Hydra extra reaction per head)
Vrock (gets to strike twice if it's flying)
Young Bronze Dragon
Zelekhut

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 85/1107. Still at about 7%, closing in on 8%.

[limber comet]

I forgot Stargut hydra was lvl 9

Also do y'all think Mesmerist will come back as a class archetype

[silver geyser]

Yes to both! The Stargut isn't even our last Hydra either.

[silver geyser]

And this morning brings us to Level 10. Out of 73 creatures, the following fall into the Reactive Strike category (Again, still none that care about Manipulate outside of this)

Bebilith
Einherji
Fire Giant
Graveknight
Gug
Piscodaemon
Sacristan
Spectral Devil
Swordkeeper
Troll Warleader
Young Red Dragon
Zuishin

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 97/1184. This has pushed us over into 8%. We are so close to finally getting to triple digits! Level 10 is tied with Level 2 and 3 for most creatures with Reactive Strike so far as well.

[ocean cobalt]

iirc they already tried to do mesmerist

as an archetype or something

[wary yoke]

Did they? Was it called something else?

[warped orbit]

Do you mean Captivator?

[ocean cobalt]

that sounds like it yeah

[wary yoke]

I can see it but I feel like its barely a hint of what the Mesmerist fun to play

[silver geyser]

For all that I like the Mesmerist, I would not call it a particularly coherent class.

[wary yoke]

The counter-charm is really the only thing that feels like a Mesmerist trick

[wary yoke]

I mean, I wouldn't call the ranger any more coherent

In 1E

[silver geyser]

Ranger goes "You have nature spells and get to choose a fighting style"

That is the base class.

Oh, and you value a companion(s) of some sort.

[wary yoke]

But youre also racist, and maybe an animal companion

[silver geyser]

I don't like calling Favored Enemy racisim.

It's... Needlessly reductive.

You have specific things you are better at killing.

Could be evil outsiders, could be undead, could be abberrant creatures.

Hell, could just be animals.

[wary yoke]

Could also be goblins or elves

[silver geyser]

Like I said, specific things you are better at killing.

You can track them better, you can figure out when they're lying to you better, you can avoid their attention better.

In short: Stop fucking calling Favored Enemy racism.

[wary yoke]

That... Sounds even more like weaponizing racism, lol

Anyway, I'm glad they jettisoned it for 2E

[silver geyser]

Rather than rant. I am just going to tap the sign.

[rotund geode]

Personally I do wish you just picked humanoid instead of specific humanoid subtypes

Because then, not only would the ability dodge the allegations, but favored enemy: humanoids tracks way better as a military ranger type or a bounty Hunter

[silver geyser]

Eh, it's one of those 3e-isms that stuck.

And also people reading way too deep into game mechanics in this case.

[rotund geode]

I’m just saying it would be cool if it didn’t
Like I am saying not only is the fact you are choosing specific races, at the very least charged with the normal reason “enemy races” is a toxic concept, but its way more interesting to be able to say “my favored enemy is People”

[wary yoke]

The only vestiges of it in 2E specifically limit it to animals/plants, beasts, and dragons (maybe one other category), and I'm glad for that, reinforced the 'hunter' archerype

[rustic cape]

I really dislike it as well, and concur that let's not keep this joke going

[wary yoke]

But I dismissively refer to favored enemy in that manner because I both think it's not a good concept and not a good ability. It was the main reason I hated ranger in 1E, on top of everything else feeling scattershot.

[silver geyser]

As for my first topic of Mesmerist not having a cohesive hook. In one class you've got:

Half-Casting focused around will-save based stuff
Support Tools (Mesmerist Tricks and Touch Treatment)
At-Will Debuff (Stare)
Bonus Damage (Painful Stare)

From a mechanical standpoint, Mesmerist isn't really giving you a mechanical focus. It's giving you a pile of generic tools and saying "Yeah, like, do whatever I guess"

Also Beguiler was more fun, fight me

[wary yoke]

The reason I brought up the ranger was because it had the same deal

[silver geyser]

It... Doesn't though.

From Ranger, you get:
Favored Enemy
Favored Terrain
Companion Feature (Animal or Friends)
Fighting Style

[wary yoke]

And nature spells

[silver geyser]

Without Archetypes, it is laser focused in on "Guy who gets on in a particular terrain type, and can focus in on specific things they Do Not Like"

Nature spells in a bunch of other things focused on Nature, yes.

[wary yoke]

But they get only 4 levels of spells, and their animal companion is barely there

There is a thematic throughline yes, but mechanically it's all legacy content

[silver geyser]

The animal companion is one of the options, and I call it out as such.

[wary yoke]

Mesmerist is focused on Mind Stuff. Offensively with their stare and spells, defensively with their tricks and touch treatment

[silver geyser]

You'd think they're focused on Mind stuff.

AND YET

There's stuff like "I make shadows strike you if you attack the person I implant a hypnotic trick into"

Or "I implant a hypnotic trick that levitates an attacker"

"I hypnotized you so you have double move speed in shadows"

[wary yoke]

Shadows are illusion magic, straight-up

Ive never heard of the other ones

[silver geyser]

Both of those other ones are part of the initial Mesmerist design.

And this is ignoring the question of "Why does the Mesmerist get Grease and Ray of Sickness?"

Behold, a spell you give a hypnotist class! https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Glitterdust

[wary yoke]

Why does any spellcaster get any spell?

[silver geyser]

Point is.

[silver geyser]

Ranger has a focus, an identity in its mechanics.

Mesmerist just has a pile of Generally Good Things.

[wary yoke]

As does Mesmerist, a tricksy guy who does mind stuff and psychosomatic tricks

Who happens to accomplish things through psychic spellcasting

[silver geyser]

Once again, I say mechanically.

The issue is not with theming.

You can retheme anything, that doesn't really matter.

There is no one good mechanical hook.

It is just "This is good stuff to have"

And I do not like that in classes.

[wary yoke]

We're just talking past each other, because every single thing you have said I can say about the ranger

What does style feats have to do with favored terrain

[silver geyser]

Ranger goes "I am a nature guy that fights"

Mesmerist goes "I can do any role"

[wary yoke]

What does favored enemy have to do with half-spellcastibg

And Mesmerist is "I'm a stage magician but an adventurer"

[silver geyser]

OK.

Let me put it this way.

What can you build a Ranger to do?

No archetypes.

Just base Ranger.

You are a Full BAB with a few spells and some stuff that says "You can get on in the wild better"

And the spells are going to have quite frankly terrible DC's, so good luck getting them to stick to enemies.

Then we have the Mesmerist.

What can you build there?

[wary yoke]

Socialite that stays in the backline during combat and focuses down enemies with mind magic, and who can also help his teammates out with minor magic and (fake) healing.

[silver geyser]

3/4ths BAB
Basically a whole caster
Way to penalize Saves
Independent support tricks
A way to boost your damage or an ally's
Slight condition removal.

You can absolutely just go about into any build with a Mesmerist, and the base class says "Sure, sounds like you can do that"

It's not focused.

[wary yoke]

You're not even listening to me at this point.

[silver geyser]

You could be a support buff caster, you could be a control caster, you could be a ranged skirmisher, you could be a frontline melee fighter.

I don't understand how you see the Ranger and the Mesmerist being the same.

[echo briar]

Do you think the upcoming elf AP that fights against Treerazer will actually end with Treerazer's death? Because hes the only lvl 25 creature that's ORC

[silver geyser]

God, having looked at his stats

Good luck to the folks who have to go up against him. 😛

[echo briar]

Tarrasque is definitely not showing up in any ORC product, and Dimari-Diji not intended as an enemy

[silver geyser]

There's other spawn of Rovagug.

[echo briar]

but they aren't level 25

the next highest is lvl 21

[light gyro]

it is very funny that the final book's final encounter could just read EXTREME 25 - treerazer (a different book, page xx)

[echo briar]

Also because I was just there, out of 3 creatures, both Treerazer and The Tarrasque have reactive strike

[silver geyser]

Yeeee

The majority of 21-25 creatures are rocking something that triggers off of Manipulate

Ouroburous have Free Action RS as the standout

[echo briar]

all 5 level 24 creatures have reactions that trigger off of movement that make a strike, and Hekatonkheires Titan's get 99 extra reactions to RS

[warped orbit]

Hekaton is really funny, because its super busted

But not because of the basically infinite reactions

[limber comet]

I'd wager that Treerazer will be weakened enough to kill

Or you'll have like an army of Guys™️ to help

[echo briar]

My problem is not with "how will the party kill him". its "will Paizo kill the only lvl 25 creature they can reasonably use?"

[wary yoke]

To borrow an adage from an old player I knew, "crunch 'em and I'll make more"

[limber comet]

Considering mythic rules are coming this month, I'd expect to see more big boys in the future

[clever cobalt]

Agreed

[surreal basin]

Yeah I expect more level 25 stuff IN WOI

[turbid dagger]

Notably, the other spawn of rovagug thats been confirmed

[limber comet]

Nah, we're getting a variety of mythic creatures adross the challenge rating board

[surreal basin]

well

yes

but i expect it to ALSO have some high level stuff mixed in there

?

[limber comet]

There are only six monsters being featured

[surreal basin]

What?

Can you cite that? That seems really low for a whole new like, system lol

[limber comet]

I'm not sure which video it's in, admittedly

[limber comet]

Well, like. There's gonna be templates (which I don't know the number of)

And six example monsters

[surreal basin]

Alright

Chat

I’m cooking the final boss of my campaign

[frank crystal]

Ooooo

What is it?

[surreal basin]

The fallen archangel of Justice, trying to wipe a multiplanar city of sin off the face of the earth

First phase is just against his angelic form

Second phase, he hits a breaking point, twisted by hate and sorrow into a daemon

It’s gonna be a huge fuck enemy, with an olethrodaemon representing the main body, and then various other tokens representing different parts of it

Like a huge mess of wings, splitting off from its form, still able to do angelic abilities

[frank crystal]

Oooo that’s rad

[surreal basin]

First form is named Israphel, Archangel of Justice
Second form is Genocide, Final Blasphemy

I gotta come up with some parts tho

Classics are a healing part, a part that dispels buffs and debuffs, and a part that charges a big attack

Wings Healing
Sword Charging up an Arena Wide version of Massacre that doesnt care about level
??? Idk what to do with the dispelling

[rustic cape]

Was looking at Godbreaker with friends the other day and trying to make it usable

Getting it via Wrestler on either a fighter or a ranger seems like the move

[warped orbit]

Ranger is probably the most likely

[surreal basin]

It’s pretty usable!

Against like…. Moore

MOOKS

[rustic cape]

So, what we came up to is that flurry ranger runs a 36/35/34 attack schedule and fighter with agile grace runs 38/35/32. And then if this is your big thing you've set up we can probably assume a Rank 9 heroism and maybe a frightened 2 or clumsy 2, and off guard from the grab

But neither of us is A Math

To see which is actually better

[warped orbit]

that seems pretty reasonable

Fighter is probably slightly better in this case, because missing the first attack is worse than missing the third

[rustic cape]

So effectively it's either 43/42/41 or 45/42/39

[surreal basin]

Jesus that’s a high to hit

It’s like

50 is a pretty high level 20 dc so like

[warped orbit]

ideally someone also sets you up a True Target

for fortune on all three attacks

oh wait no that's also only the first attack

[surreal basin]

Still worth it tho

Maybe uh

Sure strike for the first one, guidance for the last

I’d prefer the ranger one personally

[warped orbit]

Guidance is a status bonus, and this presumes a Heroism 9 already

[surreal basin]

Oh fair enough

[warped orbit]

you could have someone Aid you though

[surreal basin]

Never mind then

[warped orbit]

for a circumstance bonus

[surreal basin]

Yeah an aid would be nice

Uhhh

Man there’s a way to get some extra to your aid

I don’t remember how

Wait no I think that’s from a specific AP mechanic

NEVERMIND

Why did it all caps that????

That’s not bad tho, either of those sets of attacks is like

Not unlikely to hit even bosses

Even treerazer has only 54 AC

[rustic cape]

Yeah, I'm not sure which is statistically better for Godbreaker but

[silver geyser]

Level 11 time! 63 Creatures here. The list is as follows:

Cloud Giant
Hamatula (Gains an extra reaction for it and can also have it trigger if something Strikes it in melee)
Kongamato
Pathfinder Venture-Captain
Quoppopak
Tyrafdir
Veldenar
Young Diabolic Dragon
Young Gold Dragon
Young Umbral Dragon

Total Creatures with Reactive Strike: 107/1257. Finally, we have hit triple digits! There's only about 300 creatures to go. This is pretty close to being the same amount as other levels as well, the overall proportion is just higher. Total, there's 8.5% of creatures with Reactive Strike.

[tough perch]

i am 2 days late but i've come to say that this already is the case

i found this out today

lemme just find out the reference

it's on the page for damage types

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2308&Redirected=1

Another special type of physical damage is bleed damage. This is persistent damage that represents loss of blood. As such, it has no effect on nonliving creatures or living creatures that don't need blood to live. Weaknesses and resistances to physical damage apply. Bleed damage ends automatically if you're healed to your full Hit Points.

foundry already makes certain ancestries bleed immune

so i'm not crazy

[surreal basin]

oh yeah for sure this was just like

a whole fufcking argument when book of the dead came out

so this was codifying it for our group

(also undead can't drown for obvious reasons)

[wooden orbit]

https://youtu.be/GDv8guQi8Ag

[limber comet]

https://tenor.com/view/its-peak-old-man-shaking-head-gif-3938163323164042530

[wooden orbit]

Finally new Pathfinder novels

[limber comet]

Maybe we can get new comics with some of the lesser used iconics

Korakai

I also wanna see Mios more

[frank crystal]

Huh I just realized, a little horn Minotaur is actually a pretty good way to make a satyr character

It’s pretty close and easy to reflavor

[frank crystal]

Hmm, what would be the best ancestry for a drifter laughing shadow magus?

I’m really struggling to choose this character’s ancestry

I was thinking azarketi but I really hate having only a 20 feet movement

[surreal basin]

I’m going Shisk for my prey for death magus

[frank crystal]

They’re the people with spines sticking out of them right?

[surreal basin]

Yeah

And they have like, photographic memories

So they get a lot of recall knowledge stuff

And stuff for keeping secrets

[frank crystal]

Oh that’s cool

Hmm, I could just go elf?

But then again, that doesn’t super fit the vibes I want for this guy

Oh, I could go with Fetchling

Hmm, yah I think I’m gonna go expanded spell strike over force fang

Force range is just kinda worse magic missile, and I’d prefer to use focus points for dimensional assault

[turbid dagger]

The big thing with force fang is that its worse magic missile that does not build MAP and recharges Spellstrike
So if a dude is next to you you can force fang into spellstrike
But in that circumstance you can also, admittedly, just use the one action recharge action

[frank crystal]

Oh true yah

Does it at least give me an extra focus point to work with?

If it does I’ll probably take it

If nothing else then being able to dimensional assault an extra time per fight is really nice

[warped orbit]

it does

[echo briar]

you have focus points equal to the number of focus spells you know

(to a max of 3)

[warped orbit]

every focus spell feat gives you an extra point

[frank crystal]

Ah

Then yah I’ll probably take it

[warped orbit]

Force Fang is basically just tacking a bit of guaranteed damage onto when you Recharge, for a focus point

[solar tendon]

force fang seems kinda autotake with remaster focus points tbh

[frank crystal]

I guess it depends how long you expect most fights to go

Magus already wants to spellstrike as much as possible

[limber comet]

Oh hey, Roll for Combat is doing another bestiary

[surreal basin]

oh

i made a list of pathfinder society boons that are cool enough that i think they were worth considering integrating into games somehow

would yall like to see?

(there are downtime actions in there which pisses me off a little since pf2e has so little for you to do with your downtime lol)

[echo briar]

Sure

[surreal basin]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dJT77ROIn_0xSuYQ1hsE7T0pLQqMcAkWvj3yNR_qgaI/edit?usp=sharing

[echo briar]

Does this only work if you have 2 reactions?

Because this is reaction that triggers off of you aiding, which is a reaction in itself

[surreal basin]

huh

yeah

i guess so

didn't think of that

funny

[craggy thunder]

God

Vesk prehensile tail in 1e underrated

remembered I could draw a laser pistol with my tail

[solar storm]

I think there are also some ways to aid without a reaction

Group Aid for example

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah it’s great

[limber comet]

I am waiting so impatiently for Animist

[true delta]

Yo. I'm currently prepping Quest for the Frozen Flame. I've noticed that for two out of the following's four houses, only a single NPC each is named as a member. I was going to evenly distribute the PCs into the houses but I feel I can't do that if two of the houses hardly exist. How have y'all handled that or seen it handled?

[rustic cape]

The houses haven't come up much aside from a bit of flavor in the game I'm in

I would just let the players pick as a way of getting them slightly more invested

Oh, btw, further on into the adventure, do not ||let the colonist lady fireball the party from a literal mile away >_>||

[frozen hatch]

What story elements from Jade Regent would you change to improve it?

[clever cobalt]

Jade Regent? Is that a book from QftFF?

[warped orbit]

it's a PF1 AP

[clever cobalt]

Oh it's the "go from Sandpoint to Tian Xia" book

[heavy mesa]

I’d give Ameiko more agency

Assuming she’s not a PC

I’d also give the big villainous presence to the Regent himself instead of his granddad

Like they’re both sending assassins after Ameiko but they’re not coordinating so their hitsquads are stepping on each others toes

[rapid wagon]

i am finding that playing a champion is like 99% I raise shield, I strike, I strike. or if they're a bit further away, I defensive advance or whatever its called. Off turn I'm looking to use retributive strike, and thats... pretty much it

Which isn't necessarily bad, but surprisingly simple

almost feels like a fighter has a more complex turn generally

[true delta]

Yeah, I've gathered as much in this chat here. Thank you!

[rustic cape]

You can build it that way but remember, you’re well suited to combat maneuvers, demoralize, and even feints

You have focus spell healing and possibly domain spells

If you grab a reach weapon and the first level feat I can’t name, your reactive strike can also give you unexpected mobility

And there are some nasty reach weapons for doing combat maneuvers with

azarketi gillhook grapple paladin go

[rapid wagon]

Ah, I'm a sword and shield paladin

Not a reach jockey atm

[true delta]

Another Frozen Flame question: When player characters "gain access to" the All of the Animal skill feat, does this mean they immediately learn it or that they can learn it? Since it is uncommon, I'm tending towards the latter.

[rapid wagon]

I do some healing but only have 2 focus points

And I do occasionally demoralize, but often the benefit doesn't seem great, a lot of my class feats are invested into my shield or striking, like defensive advance and quick shield

[rustic cape]

My GM just granted it

It hasn't really come up since, it's mostly just a flavor thing

Depending on how you want to approach things it may be more relevant

[solar tendon]

raw the latter

[rustic cape]

I think in a PFS setting where unlocking stuff is a reward definitely it would be the latter

[clever cobalt]

GUYS LOOK

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6xc5l

MYTHIC STUFF

[rustic cape]

Okay this looks rad

[surreal basin]

Yeah this blogpost balls

I saw someone say that mythic points replace hero points which seems to have been entirely untrue so that’s good to hear

[rustic cape]

I really like the notion that in terms of pure numbers stuff mythic is more crazy at low levels

Like, your mortal abilities do start to catch up a bit

[sinful gyro]

I wouldn't mind a mythic to hero point exchange

But I could see having too many hero points sorta slogging things

Seperate is probably for the best

[clever cobalt]

I just like the idea of becoming a god

[sinful gyro]

I wonder how much Wotr stuff might influence new mythic design

[clever cobalt]

I haven't played it so I don't have a frame of reference

the AP or the Game

[sinful gyro]

The videogame of the AP

[clever cobalt]

I haven't played either I mean

[limber comet]

I do really hope we get more mythic callings and destinies in future products

[clever cobalt]

but fair

[rustic cape]

The videogame’s take on mythic is significantly cleaned up

[clever cobalt]

mhm

[rustic cape]

So I could see it being an influence

[sinful gyro]

It's slightly different, but the 2e version of Kingmaker did take notes and implement things from the Kingmaker videogame

Of course in that case, the connection is more solid

[clever cobalt]

god I really wanna play a Mythic Campaign

[limber comet]

The idea of playing a mythic campaign that plays a key part of your setting's history and then timeskipping to see the effects in the next campaign is a really cool idea

Though that might the Wennan Wee Wulligan Calamity/Downfall brainrot speaking

[echo briar]

I kinda want an AP that goes lvl 11-20, but also has a level 6-11 adventure built in as flashbacks

[rustic cape]

That could be fun

Real talk what if some APs were 1-6, 7-14, and 15-20, corresponding with skill proficiency maximums?

[limber comet]

I was moreso thinking the mythic thing takes place first, and then whatever happens determines the history of the setting like

500-1000 years in the future

Maybe those pcs are still around if they're immortal

I wouldn't involve them too heavily in the plot tho

[echo briar]

Also one weird thing about the mythic proficiency is that as far as we can tell, someone legendary with a skill and someone untrained with a skill have the exact same bonus if they use a mythic point

[rustic cape]

I actually really like that

Because it means your mortal competencies eventually start to catch up

With just raw mythic power

[limber comet]

I imagine mythic monsters and adversaries will also be able to keep up with that increase

[surreal basin]

I can absolutely tell you it’s very influenced by WOTR over the original mythic rules

The original mythic rules were very generic

Already “you have specific things you are becoming as you gather power” is a game thing

[limber comet]

I need an aberration mythic destiny

I need to become cosmically uknowable

[limber comet]

I hope monitors become an option later on

Or elementals

Or maybe a green man

There's so many cool things you could do

[rustic cape]

Quick, somebody give me a good 1st-rank occult spell without a save or attack that isn't force barrage

Preferably something that doesn't need heightening to be meaningful at later levels

[plucky snow]

Flashy Disapperance?

[warped orbit]

Friendfetch

[rustic cape]

Oooooh

That could be useful

[echo briar]

If I have a weapon with the two hand trait and I increase the damage die by one step, that also increases the two handed damage right?

[solar tendon]

yeah

[echo briar]

A staff with deadly simplicity would deal d10s in two hands

[solar tendon]

mhm

[limber comet]

So I'm going through the Paizolive that happened a few hours ago

Luis Loza converted Ironfang Invasion to 2e for his home table

Incredibly cool

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/621100148784758794/1291911770612568104/image.png?ex=6701d218&is=67008098&hm=ac469351c87ea9d7e5cd3834759a2a5c3012ad12c3df0ef5702a67cd6b6bf3d0&

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/880969943724728391/1291910626901229578/image.png?ex=6701d107&is=67007f87&hm=773c91d71199b6d9fc932488d383ab8943e62be760ad0b309d6e9c95c83edd21&

Arcadian gun god

Mayan deity of Xibalba

Fear god

Oh okay I guess we're just getting Battleharbinger info

It's like...aura focused?

[rustic cape]

Battleharbinger?

[limber comet]

I meant to put a space

Battle Harbinger is a cleric class archetype

[rustic cape]

Aha

[turbid dagger]

So I'm reading through starfinder's playtest
And I found a really slick early level build for Operative with one big problem that I'm trying to work my way around
Is there a way to reload a pistol while you've got a shield in the other hand?

(The build is all of these together to make basically Blitz from R6 Siege)

The alternative is going Striker, but there aren't any good agile melee weapons in the playtest
And I don't want to reinvent the monk dilemma by going unarmed+riot shield

[sinful gyro]

Doesn't operative get a lot of free reloading? And iirc if it's a buckler shield you can do it

[turbid dagger]

The issue isn't the action cost, but rather needing a free hand
And a buckler works but this hinges on a tower shield
As I can Raise Shield, then use Peek to both strike and get the bigger AC bonus from Taking Cover

[sinful gyro]

Could get some extra arms?

[warped orbit]

I was gonna say Nimble Shield Hand, but that also doesn't work for tower shields specifically RIP

[turbid dagger]

Dang
Can't do the classic riot shield pistol combo
Just like you can't dual wield pistols
Something is fundamentally flawed in how paizo treats one handed ranged weapons honestly

[sinful gyro]

There'll probably be an archtype for it

[surreal basin]

Ngl handedness and draw economy is probably like

My least favorite part of the system personally

[turbid dagger]

Yeah it's
Nahhhh
It's especially not good for ranged weapons
As you get.... essentially no advantage for using a one handed gun???
You can magically swap hands around to reload your rifle, which does almost double damage, four times the clip size, and double range, but god forbid you do anything with your free hand, han solo

[surreal basin]

Yeah I never thought about it that way but yeah there really isn’t an advantage for using a one handed gun other than having a free hand for drawing consumables

[warped orbit]

I'd probably just let Dual Weapon Reload (do Operatives actually get that?) work on this

[turbid dagger]

I don't think so?

[surreal basin]

I mean

Okay so

This works RAW if you put a shield boss on

[warped orbit]

Which especially if you put a boss or spike on it is arguably RAW

[surreal basin]

Same braincell

[warped orbit]

Or shield augmentation

[surreal basin]

Paizo has a history of one handed ranged weapons being not particularly good for this reason tbh

Like even in PF1E

[frank crystal]

Yah it kinda seems like starfield is, at least for the moment, missing a lot of obvious niches that it’s weapons show but lack any real support from the available class and archetype options

It makes so many weapons functionally useless

[surreal basin]

Which I’m gonna chalk up to “is launching with 5 classes”

[warped orbit]

Ironically, you can still do this on 2h as well

[surreal basin]

Personally

[warped orbit]

Because when you Reload, you can Regrip to 2h for free

[wooden orbit]

Starfield?

[surreal basin]

Lmao

[frank crystal]

Yes

We’re a starfield chat now

[frank crystal]

Begone, tabletop players

[turbid dagger]

hissing and smoking like a vampire in sunlight as I see there are no agile d6 weapons for striker operative

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s wild

There’s no good agile weapons for a playtest with an agile weapon class

[surreal basin]

Yeah more comprehensive weapons list is for sure necessary

[warped orbit]

The weapon list is very strange rn

[turbid dagger]

Quit trying to sell me d4 weapons paizo. I am not taking them on thaum, I am not taking them on ANYTHING

[warped orbit]

Most of the best general use ranged weapons are simple rn

[surreal basin]

I will take a d4 weapon….. if it has a crit trait

Yeah

Laser Pistol is like

Great

[warped orbit]

Laser rifle too

[surreal basin]

Which admittedly

I don’t think they need to be weaker

There just need to be equivalent martial weapons

Where there really aren’t

[warped orbit]

It's just weird that martial weapons are all weirdly specialized

[surreal basin]

I feel like they got too silly with it and forgot to make normal martial weapons on some level

Yeah

[warped orbit]

And are mostly just Soldier weapons

[frank crystal]

Yah rn it’s basically essential to poach the pathfinder weapon list for a bunch of classes

[warped orbit]

Or if you really want a sniper rifle

[surreal basin]

Which maybe that’s what they’re going for is a shift from “simple bad, martial good”
To
“Simple is straightforward, martial is specialized”

Which would be something

[frank crystal]

But then the melee list is still kinda, simple bad martial good

[surreal basin]

Also nothing in the book is as good as the pathfinder bow

Imo

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, rn a striker is pulling their fams ancestral Dogslicer out of the basement for their hits

[frank crystal]

Just getting like, a rifle that’s as good as the longbow but has its own like, rifle benefits would be wonderful

[frank crystal]

The galaxy’s suddenly having a massive boom of people discovering their goblin ancestry

[surreal basin]

Yeah but I think this is a very fixable issue

[frank crystal]

Oh absolutely yah

Just more weapons

It’s something that will inevitably be fixed with time

[warped orbit]

That gives me the funny idea of making a weapon that's just a composite bow, but flavored as some kind of self charging rifle

[surreal basin]

Weapons are probably on the lower end of stressful on production to add

…

So

Back before uh

Guns came out

I had a faction in my setting that used revolving rifles

And I just took a longbow, renamed it, and like, swapped out one trait

And my players were like “WOAH A GUN”

[rapid wagon]

man, a boss encounter wen you have 4 martials is really rough with high AC

we're at level 9, with +18's to hit, and we generally miss almost every attack on the target with a 32AC

[rustic cape]

Are any of you handing out debuffs?

Trips, grabs, demoralize, etc?

[wooden orbit]

Wondering what a good background for a magus involved in a detective agency would be (aside from the obvious detective background)

[rustic cape]

Even with just flanking you’ll hit on a 12+

[rustic cape]

Magical experiment

You joined the agency after the lead detective shut down the lab that was doing stuff to you

[wooden orbit]

Hmm, not sure I like that one. I'm gonna be playing a Yaoguai with the born of animal heritage. They're a spider. We're operating in Goka

[rapid wagon]

We did flanking, failed our demoralize against heir will and that left them immune, no grapples or trips as none of hte martials are built for that; the fear based one missed every single intiimidating strike so couldnt queue off of the fear

[rustic cape]

That seems like terrible dice luck, but yeah, it sucks

[rapid wagon]

i guess can't fix dice yeah

[solar tendon]

magus is allowed to take str/dex so magical experiment is kinda bad

[wooden orbit]

Like I would like detective but it's an int/wisdom background

[rapid wagon]

one of our martials, the shield and axe fighter, just wants to strike strike shield every round so they dont have any investment in maneuvers

our two handed nodachi fighter is mostly invested in fear but just could not land a hit

[rustic cape]

Oh I didn’t remember that it was only one boost

[rapid wagon]

and I am invested in retributive strike and shielding

[rustic cape]

Neither of those are bad for a magus, and you have the other free background boost for strength, no?

Strength and Wis would be fine

[rapid wagon]

Are there any tips for a martial to access debunks, like consumables maybe?

Debuffs*

[wooden orbit]

Going with Unfurling Brocade for hybrid study

[surreal basin]

Bombs but you aren’t gonna be getting anything crazy off of that

[rustic cape]

Amusingly, Unfurling Brocade is gonna be better with Strength

Because Athletics

[warped orbit]

get a casting dedication or Trick Magic Item, and get some scrolls

[limber comet]

Where are serpentfolk

[turbid dagger]

They're also person-snake

[clever cobalt]

Are Serpentfolk considered part of the Dark Tapestry? Cause they're a Lovecraft Implant

[rustic cape]

Tragically excluding Sneople

[wooden orbit]

The serpentfolk aren’t included since surprisingly (I guess surprisingly) they’re entirely unrelated to these

At least that’s why I assume the Sekmin are not part of this picture

[surreal basin]

Serpentfolk are also highly variable

[thorny berry]

Demoralize and feint feats, basically

Which are scattered throughout a number of classes

[turbid dagger]

Fighter feats, also!
Snagging Strike, Knockdown, Combat Grab

[thorny berry]

Yeah grapple and trip as well

Wrestler

[wooden orbit]

As I understand it the Sekmin have a wholly different origin compared to the Naga, Nagaji, and Vishkanya. Since those three are related to each others and the deity/deities that made them

[solar storm]

Wow Slither is pretty good now

snakes time

[solar storm]

We're so close to a full ring

[surreal basin]

What’s the change that made it better?

[solar storm]

It's a bunch of little things, its a save not an attack, it restrains on crit fail, it does persistent damage, etc

[surreal basin]

I didn’t realized they changed it so much

[wooden orbit]

https://youtu.be/wdW4wyFpSLs

[clever cobalt]

Quick, i need ideas for a Dual Class that isn't Fighter + Martial

[rustic cape]

Monk Rogue

I did a full 1-20 of it the other day and it's fuckin' sick

[clever cobalt]

How so?

[turbid dagger]

Champion + Summoner
Devotion Phantom so you get a reaction any time you get hit no matter who it is
Also, tandem strike

[rustic cape]

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=899818 Here's a copy (note it's using ancestral paragon but that's by no means critical)

(A few things like taking religion are because I was reprising a specific character)

[solar tendon]

rogue/wizard to achieve arcane trickster for real

or maybe not wizard so you're allowed to take wiz archetype

witch maybe

[rustic cape]

Rogue/Laughing Shadow Magus

[solar tendon]

or starlit span yeah

[rustic cape]

Any caster / Magus

Ranger / a lot of things

[solar tendon]

rogue/bard/shadowdancer/shadowcaster

[rustic cape]

Hell you could do worse than just Cleric/Wizard

Dual class is stronk

[solar tendon]

mystic theurge!

[rustic cape]

Being able to double your higher-level slots is kind of a big deal

[solar tendon]

rogue/reaction class for reactionmaxxing

[rustic cape]

As a caster you're always calculating, "can I get away with something smaller this time"

[solar tendon]

investigator magus is pretty pog

but achievable with multiclassing

[rustic cape]

Investigator Rogue is a bit redundant but cool

[solar tendon]

investigator swashbuckler could be cool

[rustic cape]

Wizard / Witch that invests heavily in familiar bullshit

"How many master abilities do I have? Yes."

Rogue Swashbuckler that uses Tumble Behind and ... which is the acrobatics one? Gymnast?

Monk Swashbuckler that uses Stumbling Feint to do the dumbest bullshit on earth

[solar tendon]

gymnast is technically athletics, cause all swashes get acrobatics

[rustic cape]

Ah, okay

[solar tendon]

I kinda hate the athletics/acrobatics split though

[rustic cape]

I do not know swash super well >_>

[solar tendon]

cause like most of what an acrobat does is athletics

[rustic cape]

I mean, if we wanna gripe about Str and Dex being separate things I can do that for hours

[solar tendon]

true, tis a symptom

[rustic cape]

I think it helps to think of attributes/ability scores not as real characteristics of a character, but as abstract investment in an archetype

[true delta]

We had it today, when a DEX character's player grew frustrated about needing Athletics to climb up a rock.

[rustic cape]

"I have 4 points in Strong Fantasy Person"

"I have 2 points in Tough Fantasy Person"

Is what the attributes actually mean

[solar tendon]

I don't know if that really does help

in this instance

[rustic cape]

That said, Athletics Assurance is almost mandatory for dex characters for a reason >_>

[solar tendon]

if anything, it's an argument for more things being dex despite the fact they ofc take a ton of strength to perform irl

[surreal basin]

Here’s my big take

Dex and strength being separately makes sense because they’re different fantasies

Yknow what should be joined

Strength and Con

[solar tendon]

ye

that would do a lot tbh

[rustic cape]

That's basically my position, yeah

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah sorry my big take was the last part I was mostly agreeing with you there

Just like

[rustic cape]

No I just thought you said it better than I had

[surreal basin]

Strong guy who can’t take a hit is funny but also like

Not a thing

And is nonsense

[rustic cape]

I wasn't trying to be snippy

[surreal basin]

Yeee

❤️

[solar tendon]

I feel like a lot of str/dex balance assumes that str gives you con already

[rustic cape]

Con is weird because it's more-or-less mandatory

[solar tendon]

subconsciously

[surreal basin]

Also that yeah

Not investing is con is like legitimately a death sentence

[solar tendon]

...con is really clearly a bad stat

like I knew but now I'm thinking about it

[rustic cape]

alwayshasbeen.jpg

[surreal basin]

Yeah

It’s noooooot great!

[solar tendon]

'hmm this stat has no skills, should we ponder the implications of its viability for our system'

[rustic cape]

Fun fact: in D&D 2e, non-warriors didn't benefit from a constitution above 16

[surreal basin]

It’s also that in this case the game feels balanced around you investing in it

Because the amount of HP you get from it at higher levels is

Insane

[rustic cape]

It's an expectation that Con will be a secondary or at least a tertiary stat, yeah

If you don't have a +4 by level 10 you're doing it wrong

[surreal basin]

I was playing with a caster who didn’t invest in con recently until we found a belt of regen

And wow

Like, even the tiniest of taps past level 10 had him going “that’s a third of my health”

It was like even back in 5e lol

[rustic cape]

"Elf who doesn't take standard stat bonuses" doesn't even exist these days

Imagine, playing with a Con flaw

Couldn't be me

[warped orbit]

it's sometimes useful if you want the third boost IMO

[rustic cape]

Elf does in fact have an insanely sexy base speed to make up for it

[warped orbit]

I did it on my Investigator, but I am also still quite squishy yeah

[rustic cape]

So I suppose certain characters might be willing to do it

[clever cobalt]

don't they get speed regardless of their stat bonuses

[rustic cape]

Yes, but you might specifically need three stat bonuses and the base speed

[surreal basin]

I’ve done it before in buildcraft but usually but a class ASI into it to even it out

So I would just be one behind standard

Sitting at -1 sounds like hell

Tbh I wouldn’t personally take a -1 to any stat save int or charisma in this system lol

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[rustic cape]

-1 Str can be fine

[surreal basin]

-1 in a save is

Scary

[rustic cape]

Take athletics assurance

Never think about it ever again

[surreal basin]

Okay I’d do negative strength on a character that doesn’t do melee attacks

Well

[rustic cape]

Or is a Thief

The Monk/Rogue build I posted earlier is such

[surreal basin]

Assurance isn’t guaranteed to succeed at the things you want from it lol

[solar tendon]

it'll do 'climb a ladder' pretty quick

[warped orbit]

oh yeah no, I would probably never recommend being at -1 Con

[solar tendon]

'swim in normal water'

[rustic cape]

It'll cover some stuff

You can't do trips or grabs

But it'll cover some stuff

[warped orbit]

but 0 for a little bit is okay if you're mainly ranged IMO

but also only really if you want a bunch of mental stats

[solar tendon]

i've done wis -1 it's fun but like, in a bad way

[rustic cape]

Dromaar Halfling Feral Child is an absolutely silly combination if you're okay with being down a boost

Hmmmm

[clever cobalt]

Also, what are good Divine Blessings?

if that isn't super vague

[surreal basin]

shakes my fist at feral child

I really want to play it for wardens of the wild but being down a boost is making me uh

Worried

[rustic cape]

Kineticist, maybe?

Kineticist getting to use Con as a main stat makes it a lot more flexible in that respect

[surreal basin]

I wanted to specifically play a clawdancer flurry ranger

[rustic cape]

Ahhhh

Yeah that's trickier

Hm

It's not unworkable but

It's trickier

[turbid dagger]

What always winds me up though is that we then get an agile assassin that can't climb a wall or jump across rooftops to save his life
All as Krog Skullcleave winds up a parkour champion

[surreal basin]

Yeah that’s weird
Acrobatics and athletics are definitely strange I agree

And in certain circumstances I have been known to let them cross over

But also

Idk your acrobat can also be trained in athletics so it’s not that weird

[turbid dagger]

It'd be nice if rogues, or a subset of rogues (cough thief) could use acrobatics for that sort of thing

[surreal basin]

I getcha tho

[solar tendon]

it makes sense from a realism point of view (those are all strength athletics things) but flies in the face of the archetype thing

[surreal basin]

They gotta give athletics a broader spectrum of stuff since it’s the only strength skill though

At least that why I think it’s the case

[solar tendon]

yeah

I think

arguably

acrobatics just shouldn't exist

or rather be called that

idk what to call it though so

[rustic cape]

Tbf the most significant combat maneuvers are all athletics based

It's very strong, and can target multiple different saves to multiple different ends

[surreal basin]

Fair enough

[solar tendon]

I think the thing about athletics being stacked is that its like

to reduce dependence on skill classes and intelligence

while there isn't a 'sneaky stuff' skill, it's split into stealth and trickery

[surreal basin]

Mhm

[solar tendon]

and then like intelligence skills, most of all with lore, are the most strictly defined

[echo briar]

The problem is that having more str based skills is kinda hard to do without making each skill too niche

I don’t want to go to shadowrun, where diving and swimming are two different skills

[solar tendon]

I think I also kinda like this design

like by fantasy archetype I like how intelligence player is like hmm which skill shall I use while strength player is I use my strength and my use strength skill :)

but yeah most of my physical dexterous characters are strength next usually cause athletics and damage bonuses are fun

strength and dex is like "why are they fighting? they're girlfriends" for me

[echo briar]

We could also get rid of the classic attributes and split skills into nerd and jock

Athletics? Jock. Arcana? Nerd. Despite being physical, stealth is nerd, and despite being mental survival is jock.

[solar storm]

Chuckling about this

[turbid dagger]

Certainly, I could see 'climbing' and 'wrestling' as two seperate skills
With trips and grapples and such folded under the latter
But I suppose then the worry is that 'wrestling' is a purely combat skill?

[clever cobalt]

Hmm. Any good dual class for Kineticist? Aside from Barbarian

Or alternatively, Thaumaturge dual classes

[turbid dagger]

The only combo I found is Ranger
As the edges dont actually specify strikes, but attacks

For Thaum, barbarian is probably funny

[fossil temple]

Heya, is your boy
Again
Here to ask
How it feels to play Oracle in 2eR?

Friend made a Cosmos Oracle for fun and it looks fun

[echo briar]

cosmos should be fine

[surreal basin]

Honestly I think you could probably split athletics into different skills if you tried really hard

ALSO oracle is fine

I’d say a lot easier to play now

If you weren’t already attached to the way they were I’d go as far as to call it an improvement

[fossil temple]

Oh but more like
it's is fun? Is unique?etc

[echo briar]

Fun? yes. Unique? less than it used to be but it should still be fine

[solar storm]

They’re neat but you need to have a good idea of what you want from the cursebound feats and metamagics

Since that’s the primary draw

And if you don’t have something specific in mind just play a cleric

[turbid dagger]

Or a divine sorc for a experience closer to oracle

[solar storm]

True that’s also good

[tough perch]

re earlier discussion about athletics and acrobatics, i think a potential way to solve things is giving acrobatics some skill feats themed around wallrunning and parkour, which could give some of the functionality of climbing and leaping to acrobatics in a limited manner

like allowing to do a long jump with acrobatics as long as there's a wall you could wallrun

[thorny berry]

see I feel like that contributes to the general thing of

well, athletics is better in white rooms and unfortunately a lot of encounters kinda are white rooms

or just un-ban quick spring lmao

[tough perch]

i mean, in battle encounters athletics are always going to be better than acrobatics

my main intention with that parkour feat idea is making high dex low strenght characters less dependent on a strength skill, while still leaving athletics as the better skill to do those things with

if you're making an assassin with knives and swords and stuff, you're probably better off investing in strength

but if you want a magical assassin, or a cat burglar, or a super spy or whatever

you have an option to be able to live up to the fantasy without necessarily investing in strength

[solar tendon]

what abt a feat like intimidating prowess

scaling circumstance bonus to athletics based on your dex

[surreal basin]

Lmao no, acrobatics should still not give you double move speed :p

Although they did edit it to at least like

Require you to go through someone’s space

[turbid dagger]

With the fix its very strong but not plainly broken
As you do need to have someone within stride range to catapult across the map to someone else (or just away, if you are ranged)

[surreal basin]

It is level 13 and requires master so it’s whatever

It being strong is fine

I feel like the firebrands errata was p well done overall

Made the options strong but not terrible

[true delta]

Greetings. During my group's session 1 of Quest for the Frozen Flame, a player has told me she can only afford to be there for 2 or 3 hours per session. Overall, four were the plan. Yesterday's took 4.30. What follows from this? I'm thinking when she leaves, I'll need to make things less hard or use lieutnants. But what can I do about this player missing out on loot and the occasional RP-dependent feat?

[solar storm]

If its gonna be consistent and partial see if the players are cool with another player running her character in those times

So the character is still there at least

Helps with loot but not really RP pacing stuff

[true delta]

Hmm. Thank you. I'm not sure I like that solution, tbh... since the Tusks share everything, I might just reserve some loot for her.

[worthy stump]

yeah, that's how we such situations at my tables too, usually. either the GM controls them for those last bits of the session, or another player does

usually just for combat/skill purposes, tho

[solar storm]

Yeah the norm is that they just sort of don't participate in RP stuff but someone operates them for combat

[true delta]

Thank you, netizens.

[tough perch]

imo if you don't want anybody to have to have the work of controlling an extra character, you can rebalance the encounters but not the loot

[solar thorn]

PoV: your players got to level 11 early via extra fights and the magus does 1218 damage in a single chain lightning

AV spoiler

[clever cobalt]

Wondering what cultures in Golarion might find common use of Animists

I feel Hongal (from Tian Xia) would work. Given the while "Fantasy Mongol" thing

Lizardfolk and Kholo also seem like likely options

[heavy mesa]

Honestly probably a lot of goblin bands

[echo briar]

Has anyone made any of the recipes from the travel guide?

[rustic cape]

My animist in Strength of Thousands was Baba Yaga’s maid from Poland and learned from the various spirits in the old witch’s house.

[crystal walrus]

Ahahahh

[rustic cape]

Tbh I feel like you could probably find good reasons for animists to be anywhere

[crystal walrus]

Fantastic

[rustic cape]

Yeah when she was ten she went up to the house and demanded to be taught magic, so the witch made her cook and clean for 10 years

[limber comet]

Yeah, especially considering the apparitions are getting expanded

[rustic cape]

Only after the witch threw her out did she foist a familiar on her in the middle of the night (witch dedication)

The familiar is an abstract tattoo of a cat

[limber comet]

I like the idea of Baba Yaga being...capricious but also weirdly kind

In that old crone way

[rustic cape]

I suspect she intended to teach Ignacja after she transgressed in some way in search of knowledge/power/etc

But Ignacja never did that

Instead she did the dishes

[limber comet]

I mean

I wouldn't transgress in Baba Yaga's home tbh

That sounds like a good way to get cursed

[rustic cape]

Yeah my feeling is that the Witch wanted her to earn it? But she never did, so …

Eventually various spirits started talking to her and she learned to ask them for help instead, at which point Baba Yaga threw her out and told her to go to the Magaambya

[eager mountain]

https://fixupx.com/casimyrcsko/status/1842745405852831979

vesk energy ?

[wooden orbit]

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=900890 Hmm, working on two different character ideas for this Goka detective agency campaign, here's one

They're a Talos Athamaru, with a dual-gate setup. Metal and Air Kineticist (I initially thought Metal and wood, but wasn't too sure about that)

[rustic cape]

Metal's a bit funky

[wooden orbit]

Yeah, wasn't sure what to pick for the level 1 metal feat, so just went with shards instead of armor.

[rustic cape]

If you want to be tanky, Earth

[wooden orbit]

Me tank? Oh no

Nononono

[rustic cape]

Metal has some good AoE stuff

Also that one impulse that gives you a status bonus to damage if you take energy damage is wild

Lets you do a 1-action blast that turn

[echo briar]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Articles.aspx Why does this exist?

it has no useful information.

[silver geyser]

Lets you easily reference where the primary sources are.

Because I have had times where I've gone "Oh, I know one of the APs has info on this, but I don't remember which one"

[novel jacinth]

Today on Starfinder:

Our Solarian accidentally atomized a bank supervisor with a horribly timed crit, traumatized the poor teller into shitting his pants because he watched his boss explode, I put a hole through the building shooting out a camera, and then our mystic (a famous influencer) gaslit said traumatized clerk into repeating a lie saying that cultists attacked the bank and told him he'd probably get a promotion out of it.

[true delta]

There is no way this series of actions could possibly come back to bite them.

[sinful gyro]

Ah so you made it to little Akkiton

[novel jacinth]

Yeeeeep.

[sinful gyro]

Chapter 2 is real good

Lotta character

[clever cobalt]

Which AP is this?

I presume Starfinder

[sinful gyro]

Ye, its Cosmic Birthday

[clever cobalt]

I wonder what Rahadoum will think of Animists

Given Rahadoum's whole "no gods" thng

[ocean cobalt]

points in favor of "cool with it":

• not gods innit
  points in favor of "not cool with it":
• divine vs primal is something diegetic that people know about

[clever cobalt]

Also Exemplars, thinking about it

[heavy mesa]

Rahadoum is cool with The Green Faith IIRC

So it might be cool with Animists so long as the relevant practitioners are just negotiating with spirits instead of offering up obeisance

[echo briar]

The gods do not have a monopoly on the divine. I have seen nothing about them hating undead.

[rustic cape]

Sorcerers are right there!

[echo briar]

They would probably like oracles.

[rustic cape]

God I'm excited for War of Immortals

[clever cobalt]

same

[rustic cape]

Looking forward to animists getting new spirits :D

I hope they get a proper storm spirit

With cold and lightning spells

[surreal basin]

I hope they get spirits that branch more into occult and arcane tbh

[rustic cape]

Mostly I’m just hurting with how elementally pigeonholed I am XD

Animists get key fire stuff

But in SoT recently we’ve been fighting a lot of fiery enemies

[wary yoke]

Unless there was a major shift between the 1E and 2E versions, they explicitly dont

They're still getting power from a god

[wary yoke]

It was why the oracle iconic was exiled from Rahadoum

[ocean cobalt]

yeah their thing is pretty consistently anti-divine magic, not just anti-god

[wary yoke]

Animists seem to be combining shamans and mediums from 1E, and I don't think we ever really got the Laws of Mortality's takes on those classes

[ocean cobalt]

mediums would have been fine bc they were using psychic magic, in 1e terms

druids i think were chill under LoM in 1e despite using divine magic on the unstated "these are two very different aesthetics despite them using the same rules as a 3e holdover"

now that primal is a tradition and that isn't necessary i don't think there would be any reason they'd like divine casters

[rustic cape]

I actually think animist and exemplar are conceptual references to two magic systems for 3.5

And IIRC the writer of them also worked on the 3PP adaptations of those systems to 1E

[ocean cobalt]

shamans are closer to druids aesthetically but according to ACG they're witch/oracle hybrids so that seems like a no

[rustic cape]

Animists are binders, exemplars are incarnates

I forget what binders were but iirc but incarnum was akasha?

[ocean cobalt]

(and the witch Thing is that officially nobody likes them)

[eager mountain]

this isssnt super related to pathfinder, but I was asking my group if they thought my gnome would have difficulty combing her own hair

and then one of them pointed out her arms are too short to do her hair

( her hair is all the way to her feet )

without being in pigtails

[wary yoke]

Incarnum was Akasha for 3PP PF1E, yes

[wary yoke]

I can see Exemplar as Akashic magic, actually. Just wish it wasn't tied to the divine flavor.

[eager mountain]

yeah ?

isnt akashic stuff occult tho ?

nvm I got what you meant

[wary yoke]

Akashic Record is, I'm talking Akashic Mysteries veils

I will be investigating this

[eager mountain]

yeah i know

[rustic cape]

Well the big thing is, exemplar gets special magic items which they can empower by directing a floating resource into, shifting energy from one to another

And that’s Incarnum

[eager mountain]

mabye at some point they willlll do like a harrow deck or something

[wary yoke]

I hadn't really looked over Exemplar in detail

I never played Incarnum in 3.5, but I loved Akashic veils

[rustic cape]

Conversely Animist summons a collection of quasi-deific spirits to gain access to their particular powers, and can summon more of them with increasing level

[wary yoke]

The character I am beating my head against a wall trying to convert for 2E was using an Akashic archetype to get access to veils

[eager mountain]

oh , i was just talkin about the akashic realm in pathfinder.

[rustic cape]

That’s Binder

[wary yoke]

Medium and Shaman did that too in baseline PF1E, which is what I was going off of

[eager mountain]

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Akashic_Record

[wary yoke]

The way I justified the two terms coexisting was that veilbinding was calling upon records of specific items/things in the Record

[eager mountain]

IIRc , like all harrow decks ( atleast the magic ones ) , are all tied to the akashic record.

[echo briar]

Do they hate the undead? They are divine

[ocean cobalt]

everyone hates the undead

[echo briar]

There are multiple nations that explicitly don’t hate them

[ocean cobalt]

geb doesnt count. which other one

[clever cobalt]

Geb (the person) hates Undead

or somethjing

[ocean cobalt]

okay

[clever cobalt]

and uhhhhhhhh

Hmm

actually not sure what other nations than Geb allow Undead

Maybe the Oni nation from Tian Xia?

Shenmen as well

maybe the Gravelands, if those count

[ocean cobalt]

if it has Grave in the name it doesnt

but yeah i bet the Evil Scary nations do like the undead. those do not count either because no one likes the Evil Scary nations, on account of them being designated Evil and Scary. which is also the reason they like the undead

come on now

[turbid dagger]

Shenmen less allows undead and is more wicked haunted and ruled by people that don't care if the less fortunate citizens get haunted to death

And in fact probably appreciate the roving packs of undead for keeping the populace terrified and unable to revolt

[ocean cobalt]

i wonder if the terrified populace likes undead

[clever cobalt]

Personally feel this is a little reductive

But that's just me

[limber comet]

This is extremely reductive holy fuck

"Moana, the people" isn't even accurate

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

And also kinda racist

[limber comet]

"Single interest point is the flying Shory City" please go kick rocks 💔

[clever cobalt]

This just feels like a more racist version of the original (which already wasn't good)

[limber comet]

Whoever made this either only read the 1e version, or didn't read either

[solar tendon]

calling the ghost place spider lady tyrant feels weird

[clever cobalt]

"JJ Waifu Nation" what

[solar tendon]

cause its like the one place designed to be easily described

but they didn't say 'horror land'

[clever cobalt]

Haunted Country yeah

Or that

[limber comet]

I guess Pathfinder 2e still has grognards but man I haven't seen one in so long

[eager mountain]

i see

[solar tendon]

'nation of racist samurai and ninja' just feels like baiting the discourse

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

Meme specifically designed to piss people off type beat

[wooden orbit]

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=900890 Any opinions on my PC? This is for the Goka detective agency campaign I've mentioned before. We're starting at lvl 2, got free archetype, gradual stat increase, and paragon ancestry feats

[eager mountain]

to be fairrrrrrr

IIRc, shenmen Or atleast the country its in is like ALL haunted

[clever cobalt]

I'm not gonna be fair this meme sucks

It does not deserve benefit of the doubt

[eager mountain]

oh no i meant there IS a haunted nation

[solar tendon]

saying haunted country would've been fine, that's our point

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

And the meme seems to have been made as bait and/or by a grognard

[eager mountain]

oh I thought that was what it said

[clever cobalt]

Nope

"Spider witches tyrants"

[solar tendon]

which isn't even inaccurate or anything

[clever cobalt]

It isn't but it's reductive

"Single piece of new interesting lore" is making me angry

[wooden orbit]

I’m assuming the future world wound one is referring to Tianjing?

Absalom but Tian Xia feels odd

[limber comet]

Grognards when the lore isn't about Sir Dingleschnoz the fifth, whitest knight

"Erm Tian Xia is actually not that interesting"

[clever cobalt]

Especially since we haven't gotten Valash Raj lore in the past

plus I think it was Winged who literally wrote that part of the Tian Xia book

[ocean cobalt]

it's the single piece of lore they like because they can pretend the furries are white

go in the hole. the scary hole

what is there to even say. jesus

[rustic cape]

They’re still around but Paizo has largely shooed them out of the house

[limber comet]

Thank god for that

[wooden orbit]

Where’s Xidao at?

[rustic cape]

I mean to be fair it’s “largely” because some of them still work for Paizo upper management

But their ability to ruin things has been greatly diminished

[limber comet]

It's "underwater war nobody cares about"

[clever cobalt]

yeah

Between Minkai and the rest of the continent in the sea

[silver geyser]

Oh yeah, Ameiko came from one of James Jacobs home games originally before she was put into Rise of the Runelords.

[clever cobalt]

mhm

[limber comet]

Ameiko my beloved

[surreal basin]

Which is so stupid to complain about

“Oh not the writers put their OCs in the setting”
What do you think literally every character is you churl

[limber comet]

If I want my starter town to have my ideal woman/man/partner, then let me have it

[solar storm]

Do people complain about that?

Like designer/writer OCs in settings is as old as RPGs

[surreal basin]

Yeah

See above: JJ Waifu Town is not said endearing

[wooden orbit]

Coulda sworn that Minkai was more Filipino/SEA, not Polynesian or is there Polynesian inspiration with Minkai too?

[limber comet]

Minata and it was Polynesian in 1e

But they seperated it in 2e

Now the Okaiyo Ocean is the dedicated Polynesian area

Minata is definitively Filipino/SEA now

And it's better for it

[wooden orbit]

-stares at zoomed in map “you lied to me”-
The impression I got was very much Filipino/SEA so I was confused by the Moana statement on that map

[clever cobalt]

Yeah Nahau (or however you spell it), the Exemplar iconic, is from a Polynesian-esque Okaiyo culture

[limber comet]

Yeah, there's four great sailing nations

Their lore is also touched on briefly in Monsters of Myth

Which I definitely recommend reading

[clever cobalt]

That's where most of our lore on their culture comes form yeah

It's basically the only.time they've been brought up before WoI

[solar storm]

Oh, I didn't realize that's what it was in reference to

[clever cobalt]

(Monstets of Myth is also generally a good book)

[solar storm]

Yeah I agree its good

[limber comet]

Supposedly the monsters being added in WoI will follow the same-ish format as Monsters of Myth

I think I heard that in the gencon WoI panel

[wooden orbit]

Had to look over the meme map again to realize where I got mixed up

[clever cobalt]

Really? Nice

I think MoM is very well laid out, a good mix of lore, story, and mechanics

Even if we've only got an AP about one of them (unless you count Sandpoint(

[wooden orbit]

Mind you the map is still rubbing me the wrong way x-x
Also just for perspective, how big is Goka compared to Absalom?

[clever cobalt]

I'm pretty sure Absalom is bigger but Goka is still big

I can't find exact stats on Goka's size though

[solar storm]

I don't think there is a population figure in TXWG

Which is kind of annoying

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[limber comet]

There might be one in Fists

[clever cobalt]

For reference, Absalom is roughly 300k people

True

Lemme look there

[solar storm]

Pathfinderwiki says also roughly 300k

But IDK where that's from

[limber comet]

I could double check by rewatching (I'm procrastinating on House of Leaves)

[clever cobalt]

It says about 350k

In the Ruby Phoenix part 2

[solar storm]

oh excellent

[limber comet]

Pretty damn big for a fantasy city

[clever cobalt]

I mean it's Fantasy Beijing

Sorta like how Absalom is Fantasy New York

(Sorta)

[limber comet]

Absalom is Absalom, and Goka is Goka

[clever cobalt]

yeah

also I love this part of Tian Xia/Goka lore

Literally just Street Fighter, down to the name

[limber comet]

I love weird fantasy in universe games

[clever cobalt]

Same

[wooden orbit]

My brain immediately went to Hong Kong for comparison since Goka is a port city

[clever cobalt]

I like the weird (by comparison at least) tech progression of Golarion

And it's a bit of both, like Matt said it's its own thing

[clever cobalt]

Like how the Printing Press has been around for a while but Firearms are new

Magic being widely available will do that i suppose

[wooden orbit]

I’m gonna have to challenge one of my fellow party members to Alley Basher aren’t I?

[clever cobalt]

Do it

[limber comet]

Downtime options that aren't just "shopping and resting" are always great

[wooden orbit]

I’m here for the fighting game tournament, and I ain’t got deodorant. I’m ready

[surreal basin]

Kind wanna do a rework of downtime stuff for 2e at somepoint

[turbid dagger]

Truly
The answer to making likable characters is to make characters you like, as it turns out

[limber comet]

Update on the map

It was bait lmao

[solar storm]

wow strong bait

[limber comet]

I used my witcher senses to track it to the source and the maker said "i edited it to make it more offensive"

[clever cobalt]

I'm not surprised

I still thinks it falls into immature "being a dick because they think it's funny" though

[frank crystal]

Hmm, for taking a spellcaster class an archetype, how fast is their spell progress compared to just being a spellcaster?

Been thinking of making a fighter druid again

[rustic cape]

Considerably slower

And it costs 4 feats to maximize the progression

It is worth it sometimes

[frank crystal]

I see

[rustic cape]

But not super often

[frank crystal]

Also wait did they rename gnoll to Kholo?

[rustic cape]

Yes

[frank crystal]

Oh, huh

Weirdly the NPC statblocks are renamed on nethys but not the ancestry

But they seem to be renamed everywhere else

[rustic cape]

The updated ancestry is from Player Core 2

[frank crystal]

But also why?

[rustic cape]

Player Core 2 hasn't been added to AoN yet

[frank crystal]

I thought Gnoll wasn’t really super tied to dnd

[frank crystal]

Ohhh ok

[rustic cape]

Two reasons
(a) Gnolls have a lot of baggage that kholo specifically dispose of
(b) It is more tied to D&D than you think

Kholo are pragmatic, clever hunters with traditions of sacred cannibalism