Pathfinder

[clever cobalt]

It's just the how and why is the spoilers

[wooden orbit]

Yeah, I didn’t know it was him that was responsible until the trailer for WoI

[clever cobalt]

Fair enough

[limber comet]

It's probably Arcadia, admittedly

Also the thing with Achakek and Gorum is. Complicated

I aint gonna spoil but you know. It's crazy

[clever cobalt]

Yeah Ive read it myself

I got Prey for Death for the specific purpose of learning why Gorum died

[craggy thunder]

They might not know Gorum was a true deity and be met with some consequence

||As Calistria convinced them Gorum was merely a pretender||

Well

Shit

[clever cobalt]

I think they were talking about Achekak

Yeah should probably spoil that lol

[craggy thunder]

I mean ye

||I was too that's why I brought up what Calistria did||

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[limber comet]

War of Immortals is gonna be crazy

[clever cobalt]

||It's worth noting Gorum also asked Calistria to do this||

[craggy thunder]

||Indeed||

[clever cobalt]

||It was essentially an elaborate Suicide by Cop||

[wooden orbit]

I know they said some more deities gonna die in this war, just wondering who. Since they teased a possible death in the Orc AP

[clever cobalt]

Gorums the only core god dying iirc

[limber comet]

I mean in the stream recently they said a few orc gods are getting replaced by orcs that ascended to godhood

[wooden orbit]

[clever cobalt]

But everyone aside from the core 20 (and Arazni) is up in the air

[light gyro]

"vulnerable to: decapitaiton" you don't say.

[clever cobalt]

Happens to the best of us

[light gyro]

funniest thing to tell the wizard on a successful knowledge check. makes them feel useful

[limber comet]

I'm really excited to see the Norgorber article in Curtain Call 3

[clever cobalt]

Didn't CC3 come out

Or are you talking when it's publicallt available

[limber comet]

When I can personally get my hands on it

[light gyro]

the frightened condition not itself having the emotion tag is throwing me
99% of the time it doesnt matter since all its sources are emotion tagged - but im wondering if the frightened from fear meets the requirement for quelaunts Feed on Emotion. my ruling is it doesn't.

[warped orbit]

the Fear spell?

every source of frightened I know has the Fear and/or Emotion traits, so it would count IMO

[light gyro]

i think the fear spell has a duration of instant except for fleeing which is a round

[wooden orbit]

@warped orbit Was thinking about it after the trailer came out, but with War of the Immortals bringing back mythics....mayhaps we could possibly see a Wrath of the Righteous 2E book, like Kingmaker?

[warped orbit]

maybe

[wooden orbit]

one can hope

[warped orbit]

with new Mythic it's definitely more possible now

I kinda doubt Paizo will do it at least though

Kingmaker was also kinda a huge undertaking, so I don't expect too many more conversions

[surreal basin]

Unfortunately imo like

WoTR would require really big rewrites

It really doesn’t hold up the best

[limber comet]

Also they're not really into 1-20 campaigns anymore

[wooden orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

You mean I won't see something like Strength of Thousands again for new APs?

[limber comet]

No :[

[warped orbit]

we might still see some 1-20 APs

but definitely a lot less

[limber comet]

But we are getting an 1-10 Azlanti Adventure next year so that's pretty hype

[warped orbit]

I do think it's good they aren't rigidly keeping themselves to a certain length though

there are just some premises that are hard to extend over the full level spectrum

I think they explicitly mentioned Edgewatch being one that kinda suffered in that regard

[craggy thunder]

Oh?

As someone whose first character was Azlanti (skeleton) color me intrigued

[limber comet]

Yeah, all we know is that it takes place on Shattered Azlant and involves a vampiric plot to blot out the sun

It's called Shades of Blood

[craggy thunder]

I fucking wished for a vampire AP not a week ago

And the monkey's paw curled

and made one but made my azlanti skeleton fit it better <XD

l m a o

[wooden orbit]

You mean I can finally play an aquatic Azlanti? An Azarketi?

I've yet to see a 2E ap, well at least that I know of, where you can reasonably play an aquatic ancestry.

[craggy thunder]

colors my edgy catman katana ruffian's robe pink cuz pink is a color associated with death in Japan

[wooden orbit]

Huh, I knew white was, but not pink

[limber comet]

Yeah most of them are landbound

But it's possible we might get something better

[craggy thunder]

okay apparently I was wrong lmao

maybe it's specifically cherry blossoms and the pink is incidental?

okay so what I'm getting from this short rabbit hole

Is that cherry blossoms likely had an association with ruminations on death and the relative short length of life in Japan, given they bloom once a year for a short period of a few weeks then fall off and die

Then, in the medieval era of Japan, someone coined the phrase "Hana wa sakuragi, hito wa bushi" which translates as "the [best] blossom is the cherry blossom, the [best] man is the warrior (samurai)"

drawing comparsions between the beauty and glory of cherry blossoms with those of samurai, along with their relatively short life spans given samurai's propensity and duty to, you know

die in combat

So technically, the color is incidental since it's just the color living cherry blossoms have

but that still means the response you're supposed to have to this guy having pink hair is not 'lmao pink hair, anime af' but 'oh fuck he's gonna kill me'

tho both reactions simultaneously is probably appropriate too

[light gyro]

The party has two days until their chicken mascot transforms into a bloodthirsty vampire, putting this here so I don't forget about it later

[surreal basin]

UNDERWATER COMBAT TONIGHT

[surreal basin]

thinkin about playin a summoner with a big mantis as my eidolon for prey for death

[limber comet]

Angel Eidolon but like

Not an angel

[wooden orbit]

Psychopomp eidolon or primal?

[surreal basin]

probably beast

[wooden orbit]

I kinda want to play Prey for Death, just not sure what class I’d play

I’m still debating whether my Yaoguai would be an investigator or if I should try a different class my next time playing SoG

[craggy thunder]

Wait is Warpriest cleric par with cloistered now?

master in their deity's weapon, pog

[warped orbit]

at 19 IIRC, but yeah

Warpriest did get some nice buffs though

[wooden orbit]

Good lord does Abomination Vault really take a year to run even if you're running it weekly, I thought it would be a little shorter than that with it only going up to level 10

[craggy thunder]

my falayna warpriest rides again

powered by the love of her Dwarf Wife

wielding the sword forged by her Dwarf Wife

[craggy thunder]

https://youtu.be/u-gd3H789Zc?t=246

The backstory of said kitsune cleric of falayna is the timestamped myth except they are a plural system and book it the night before their wedding and instead marry one another

[wooden orbit]

-stares at Cultivator archetype being under Wuxia in the Tian Xia character guide...eye twitches-

[surreal basin]

Is it not?

[wooden orbit]

Nope, it's Xianxia

But for some reason folks keep using the two terms interchangeably, when they're not.

Which I suppose might be the reason why Paizo did this because most people do get the two confused.

Xianxia is the more fantastical stuff which is where you get the cultivators (possibly the earliest example of Xianxia is Journey to the West). For a visual you got shows like The Untamed, or a video game like GuJian 3. Wuxia is stuff like Hero, or Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. You don’t really get spirits, celestians, demons showing up. More just superhuman feats of martial arts. No magic.

[light gyro]

wuxia fiction exists in golarion but it resembles our xianxia cus spirits are an every-day thing over there - golarion xianxia is incomprehensible to humans

[wooden orbit]

Wonder if we’ll see the shifter class return to 2E as a class, or an archetype

[clever cobalt]

I can see it as a Druid class archetype personally

[wooden orbit]

That was my thought if it's brought back as an archetype. Though I kinda hope it's still a class if it shows up in 2E.

[clever cobalt]

Same, though I dunno if it's enough to be a class

[rustic cape]

I think in general the "grant progression in this particular schtick from a particular class" archetypes are good

And shifter would make sense as that

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[rustic cape]

What's fun is when you take the schtick archetype with FA as a member of that class

So you just get to do More Of That Class

[echo briar]

I feel like it would make more sense to be a martial class

Like, what part of the Druid framework would you be keeping?

Barbarian seems like a better fit

[silver geyser]

No. It's a Monk Archetype

[echo briar]

both work

[trail nova]

I’m on the books as believing that Shifter, Barbarian, and Mutagenist should be one class

[echo briar]

but its easier to turn something whos main game plan is to hit someone very hard into someone who hits someone very hard as a bear, then to take someone whose game plan is to cast spells and make them hit things hard somehow

[echo briar]

Why is crab an option in animal form and not insect form?

Its not like insect form is just insects, half of the options are other invertebrates

[wary yoke]

I'm playing the second edition version of Kingmaker and we reached the Stag Lord and got our shit pushed in

Our ambush turned into getting dogpiled by three bandit encounters at once, including the Staglord

Meanwhile, my magus's cat familiar, who I based off of Pangur from Tumblr, is distracting two of the guards

https://64.media.tumblr.com/9eeeb0397f624b92f5d5986041540e8b/632fa9a2e1e7be1d-3c/s2048x3072/758216a3bc1d7ad4005a6f4d7d2bc9e6d66e9d4b.pnj

[warped orbit]

most dignified picture of Pangur

[light gyro]

Pangur my beloved

[craggy thunder]

There's also literally already a druid circle that proves this lol

[echo briar]

And they do that with spells

and they use the wildshape spells to supplement their other spells.

Wild druid is not a good base for a shifter, because you would have to replace everything

[wooden orbit]

So what’s the opinion on the new magus options from Tian Xia Character Guide?

I love that one of them lets you turn cloth/fabric into a weapon. But not sure if it’s good mechanically

[light gyro]

thaumaturge post

[warped orbit]

I've not looked at them closely yet
But Brocade seems interesting
Firmament I've seen people be pretty lukewarm on

It seemingly overlaps a lot with Laughing Shadow

[wooden orbit]

Hmm

From what I gathered from some posts I saw on the ol’ reddit, the Cultivator archetype was kinda meh mechanically?

Another grudge going in the book for that one 😔

[surreal basin]

It’s mostly for flavor

[wooden orbit]

😔

Yaoguai Cultivator, name a more perfect combo…but the cultivator is mechanically meh…and they put it under Wuxia

[craggy thunder]

Oh I'm not saying it's a good base

I was arguing it was a case study as to why such a thing was a bad idea <XD

[half apex]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-second-edition-bundle-dead-paizo-inc-books?hmb_source=humble_home&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_4_layout_index_2_layout_type_threes_tile_index_2_c_pathfindersecondeditionbundledeadpaizoinc_bookbundle

The temptation

[surreal basin]

imo you can still absolutely grab it, it might come in handy, its just not gonna be like, a meta pick

[sinful gyro]

Oh shit that has the blood lords foundry module?

[surreal basin]

book of the dead is also a great actual read

it has a lot of cool shit in it

[sinful gyro]

Nice

Might pick it up just for that

Ye, already got that, but I do recommend it

[crystal walrus]

What is Blood Lords?

[sinful gyro]

Its a sorta bad guy AP set in Geb

You all play undead

[surreal basin]

It’s my favorite AP I’ve played so far and I’ve played

A lot of them

[sinful gyro]

Maybe Emily has a better description than I do then :p

[crystal walrus]

A GHOULISH AP

[surreal basin]

Less bad guy necessarily and more like

[sinful gyro]

Ye

[surreal basin]

Not-Good I guess lol

[limber comet]

I do not like Geb (the person) we should beat him up

[clever cobalt]

make sure to get handwraps with ghost touch\

[surreal basin]

So for what it’s worth

I would definitely say:

Do not expect to work against the nation of Geb

It’s a tempting proposition to make a character who does! But the AP does not want you to do that generally speaking

[crystal walrus]

you work for the Imperium of Man

Imperium of Fang

[limber comet]

Imperium of Living People

[surreal basin]

But beyond that it allowed for a lot of different approaches to stuff and a lot of like

Politicking

[half apex]

The core rulebook off of that humble bundle would be nice, but I'm not how much the rest of that is just GM material

[surreal basin]

The Book of the Dead? I mean all the mechanics are uhhh on Nethys, but the lore stuff is just

Lore

[crystal walrus]

the core rules are cheeap, but older

which is my real issue

they're still fine, but none of those use player core.

[wooden orbit]

Hmm, Yaoguai Magus with one of the new options, and Cultivator archetype for Season of Ghosts

[wooden orbit]

@surreal basin Is Unfurling Brocade more for the dex Magus?

Cause I'm kinda leaning towards Unfurling Brocade as their hybrid study.

[surreal basin]

I’d say for either but it leans dec by virtue of the scarf being finesse

And its traits lets you uhhh

Use dex for athletics maneuvers I think?

[turbid dagger]

AFAIK it does not let you use dex for maneuveurs

So you can do dex but you will benefit more from str

I do think str grappler brocade is Fiendish though
Grapple with reach, hit em with Home Amongst Mullberry Leaves
They are Fucked

[wooden orbit]

I did like the idea of a more acrobatic (Not acrobatic as in the skill -internal screaming-), finesse style magus fighter with the use of threads....hmm

[vital kiln]

Went looking for odd jobs in a game I'm in, managed to find a doc that needed help moving medical supplies

Rolled a success for it, so I was told to roll me a d10 for my pay

Got me a 10 baybee

I am now ten dabloons richer for zero effort

[surreal basin]

Fair enough

Tbh not being very strong doesn’t really preclude you from using athletics still

[turbid dagger]

I did say 'you can do dex but will benefit more from str'

[surreal basin]

Oh for sure I was

Just noting it

[craggy thunder]

So we're battle of the bands'ing in Starfinder

and I am the frontwoman

hehehehe

fuck

[wooden orbit]

May invest a little more in strength then.

Need to find me a good picrew to use for my Born from Animal Yaoguai

[sudden lark]

Yay!

[wooden orbit]

Uhh, this is like a very VERY rough idea of my character. May change the hair color

Still not quite sure about the animal they were. Thinking spider or wolf. Spider would be remarkably in theme with SoG....and might cause problems x-x

[sudden lark]

Is this an East Asian-themed game?

[rustic cape]

looks at Aloof Firmament okay that’s fun

[wooden orbit]

Season of Ghosts takes place in Tian Xia, Shenmen. Shenmen near as I can tell is horror flavored China? (Not sure which region of China. Shenmen, especially around the town the AP is focused on, is heavily forested)

[clever cobalt]

More general Asian horror, as opposed to just China

Also what Aesthetic would you call this

Beyond "Reynolds' Character Design"

[wooden orbit]

Always make sure you're dressed for every occasion.

Always.

[silver geyser]

Well-armored.

[lost bluff]

Can't hit me if I wear so many layers you can't tell where my body is

[turbid dagger]

Yeah Shenmen is basically the Ustalav of Tian Xia
Where its the Spooky Land

[limber comet]

Sorta

There's a lot of Horrors™️ sprinkled around Tian Xia

Wanshou is also spooky

It's supposed to kinda be Innsmouth with less racism and more ghosts

[wooden orbit]

Chu Ye is another horror land. It's ruled by the Oni.

[limber comet]

There used to be another one in 1e that was connected to the Dreamlands

But they kinda nixed it in 2e

Sorta

It's just not mentioned, but I assume they kinda wanted to distance it from the Cthulhu Mythos

[wooden orbit]

Granted Chu Ye isn't like super scary, despite the Oni being kinda terrifying to the humans and other non-Oni lower class folks. They've learned instead that it's a lot easier to keep the country under control by giving people just enough hope that they too can eventually have a better life by giving them celebrity figures, etc. And teaching them that if they're poor, or suffering...that's their own personal failings.

[limber comet]

Also

New iconic encounter with Nahoa and Samo

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6wdfn?Iconic-Encounter-The-Serpent-s-Passage

Nahoa is so cool

[clever cobalt]

I love seeing his reaction to stuff personally

Though I'm also generally a fan of "fish out of water" stuff anyways

[limber comet]

I cannot wait to see all the cool exemplars people build

[clever cobalt]

I can't wait to see the final version of Exemplar

[limber comet]

Love him taking care of his "auntie"

[fossil temple]

Now that ||Gorum|| is dead, which other god of war a barbarian could worship?

[wooden orbit]

Iomedae

Maybe Besmara?

[fossil temple]

thank ya

Depending on the GM, Damoritosh maybe?
Is the god of war of the VEsk (Starfinder)

[limber comet]

There's plenty of regional war gods too

There's the 3 headed one from Minata

[clever cobalt]

(Who has a KSBD reference in their bio)

[fossil temple]

Was thinking one to make a Kolo (Gnoll ) devoted to one
IF anything, I can say he worships Shelyn and grabbed "The art of war" literally

[craggy thunder]

Calistria, out to kill whoever struck down Gorum as revenge

While missing the supreme irony cuz they're a mortal not engaged in the gods' affairs

[trail nova]

Suzeriel, or a minor deity, is what comes to mind as well.

[clever cobalt]

||About that...||

[craggy thunder]

I

Yes

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[craggy thunder]

See my next sentence xD

[clever cobalt]

Ah, got it

My bad

[craggy thunder]

lolol

ur good

My favorite minor god is Falayna

Who I feel very seen by as a Sword Lesbian ™️

My two biggest goals in life

sword

marriage

XD

[trail nova]

... is she the, yeah, sword wife goddess.

[turbid dagger]

I've been liking Dammerich recently

[limber comet]

Oh I like this guy

[clever cobalt]

Hmm, not sure what obscure god I like the most

I do like the uh, secrets god from Mwangi

I do wish there was a proper Fleshwarp god beyind Lamashtu

[surreal basin]

woi is gonna be out whn i play prey for death

so im thinkin bout a quizzie

[solar storm]

Any of the Nexian gods would probably work pretty well I imagine

[clever cobalt]

Prey for Death allows character creation right? It isn't premades?

[surreal basin]

a vengeator or whatever the fuck its called lmao

[clever cobalt]

Who are those again?

[surreal basin]

and yes it allows for cc

[solar storm]

Wizard country with a pretty significant fleshwarp population

[clever cobalt]

I'm playing a Fleshwarp Exemplar in an upcoming Alkenstar/Mana Wastes game a friend is hosting

Also I know what Nex is, I'm curious about the Gods they worship

[solar storm]

Oh whoops I see what you meant now

[clever cobalt]

Np

And thanks

[surreal basin]

SARANRAE??

[clever cobalt]

Saranrae is a core 20 God, and Nex had some connections to Casmaron iirc

So I'm not surprised she's worshipped there, if not hugely

[solar storm]

Yeah its Kelish

[surreal basin]

The church of sarenrae in Nex has gotta be having a wild one

[limber comet]

Nex actually used to be like. Good, when Nex was still around

[clever cobalt]

Saranrae is the Patron God of the Kelish Empire iirc

Which makes me wanna know more about Casmaron still

[surreal basin]

“Hey guys could we cut down on the insane fleshwarping? Maybe a little? Perhaps?”

[solar storm]

Oh is that something she's particularly opposed to?

[clever cobalt]

If this Mana Wastes game is mythic (which is unlikely but possible), I definitely wanna go Destined Monarch for my Fleshwarp

[limber comet]

No but I can imagine horrible mutilation and irreversible trauma would definitely not be something she enjoys

[rapid wagon]

What's the low down on the staff magus? If I were to step into one at lvl9 or 10, what should I know or expect from the class and specialization?

[clever cobalt]

King Arthur Fleshwarp

Who builds a promised land for the outcast and the weird in the Mana Wastes

Is basically my Mythic concept

I have a whole backstory planned out

[solar storm]

I think its a little different with Nex since becoming a fleshwarp is sort of like becoming a space marine or something - a sacrificial ward of the state for defense

It's sort of a civic calling or something?

[surreal basin]

Fair enough yeah

[clever cobalt]

Yeah, it's not an inaccurate refetence

[surreal basin]

I guess I more so am like

[clever cobalt]

Including the less fun parts of it

Though, iirc there are also Flesgforged who are created wholesale in the fleshforges

[surreal basin]

I guess I just like

[clever cobalt]

(I plan to play a Fleshforged myself)

[surreal basin]

Track Nex as being similarly bad to Geb

[solar storm]

It's super sus still but in a weird Nexian way I think

[clever cobalt]

Nex is also mostly wastelands outside the city

So there are also a ton of "natural" mutants

[solar storm]

Nexians also train non-fleshwarp troops by implanting the memories of combat experience in them

[clever cobalt]

Yeag

[solar storm]

Which is also kind of fucked but in a special Nexian way

[limber comet]

Like, Nex used to be okay and then when the namesake wizard poofed they got desperate to defend themselves against Geb

So they got fucky with magic

[clever cobalt]

My friend is incidentally hosting a Nex game as well, which I would have joined if I didn't already have a game at that time

And a Blood Lords game

They have the big 3 IL games

[solar storm]

This is also pretty funny to me

"whoa whoa whoa we can't bind elementals that'd be fucked up

[surreal basin]

Lmao

[clever cobalt]

It's worth noting Fleshwarps are sort of a, repressed minority in the Impossible Lands

No one "civilized" likes them

[solar storm]

2 doors down

[clever cobalt]

Or at least, they're looked down upon

[surreal basin]

I do actually think “it’s considered ethical to bind elementals but these are living creatures being pressed into slavery” is kinda like

Rad

As a plot point

[solar storm]

Yeah I agree

[clever cobalt]

Geb hates Fleshwarps due to them being tied to Nex, Nex looks down on Fleshwarps because they're seen as "lesser", and Alkenstar is just racist towards them

IIRC because Alkenstar has to deal with raids and are overly paranoid about anyone who isn't a core race

And even then

Hmm

I wonder if playing an escaped Fleshforged in Alkenstar would mean they suffer from prejudice and other issues

At least on paper

Apologies if I'm rambling I like talking about my blorbos

[solar storm]

nah its fine

I like random setting chatter

[clever cobalt]

Fair

But yeah, it's mostly a rhetorical question anyways

Because uh, Alkenstar hates fleshwarps and whatnot

[solar storm]

Being escaped from Nex might also be awkward since Alkenstar is technically a protectorate of Nex

But doesn't really want to be and is pretty remote

[clever cobalt]

Yeah the protectorate status is iirc just politics

[sinful gyro]

Anyone want the tier 1 code for that Pathfinder humble bundle?

It contains this stuff

I already got all that stuff, so if anyone wants it, lemme know

[clever cobalt]

I'll take it if no one else wants it

[sinful gyro]

I'm surprised you don't have that stuff already

[clever cobalt]

I have some of the books

Hust not Blood Lords

[sinful gyro]

This doesn't have bloodlords

[clever cobalt]

Ah, my bad then

Nvm

[sinful gyro]

Aside from the player guide but that's free

[clever cobalt]

Fair enough

Yeah I thought it had blood lords for some reason, my bad

[sinful gyro]

To be clear, the code I'm giving only has the stuff in that picture

[echo briar]

Staff magus is cool, but it really comes down to your staff selection

You either want a staff with a ton of damaging spells at the highest levels, or something with sure strike

[surreal basin]

Spellstriking staff is cool

[echo briar]

The problem is that it’s shifting, so you can actually use it on any magus

[wooden orbit]

Far as I’m aware it does.

[surreal basin]

fair but that doesn't make it bad for twisting tree

also technically i think iron still cant use it because of how shifting wrks

it can technically only turn into one handed weapons

well, i guess it would work with weapons with the two hand trait bt

[wooden orbit]

Thinking about Varisian again, and how a campaign dealing with the Runelord of Envy, and her ambitions. And White Estrid since as I understand it, she and Belimarius are kinda in a sorta tense political situation with Belimarius desiring Estrid’s kingdom.

[rustic cape]

I love animist so much

I think I have said that on a few occasions

[limber comet]

It's gonna be peak

Seems like it encompasses medium, spiritualist and shaman from 1e

In just one class

Wild

[rapid wagon]

My main experience being a champion and understanding that spell striking is core to all versions, what's the play style of the staff magus?

Are they a bit more focus on debuffing with the stick?

Also sorry meant to turn the notification off

[turbid dagger]

What I'd say is that they lose out on the raw damage of laughing shadow or inexorable iron in exchange for having more sustain and utility- you can use a magic staff just fine, getting you extra slots and a wider range of spells, whereas most hybrid studies need fused staff
It's also the only magus that gets crit spec, though that matters less since the crit spec of magus is 'replace the enemy with a smoldering crater'

[surreal basin]

No con baby sorcerer got a belt of regen

[turbid dagger]

Huh, thats clever
Requires much bravery but
Clever

[rustic cape]

See to me, it seems like the PF2e iteration of 3.5’s old binder

[solar storm]

Wasn't Binder that weird no spell slots caster?

Or am I mixing up some of the more obscure casters?

[silver geyser]

BINDER MENTIONED?!

Binder could basically give themselves reusable Supernatural abilities.

Got around magic immunity, got around spell resistance.

Buuuut what they usually got used for was qualifying for the caster prestige class.

[rustic cape]

It was

You could bind various “vestiges”, of an amount increasing over the course of leveling

They gave you a mix of abilities including many that could be used every 5 rounds

Unfortunately 3.5 doesn’t really allow you to rebuild your character on the fly

So in practice you had a few vestiges you were locked into

[solar storm]

That seems kind of different from Animist but I didn't play with Binder when I touched on 3.5

[rustic cape]

To make your build work

[solar storm]

Is it because of the spirit swapping?

[rustic cape]

Oh it’s not the same mechanically

But I mean the fluff concept — bind a bunch of spirits to yourself to get their powers

And be able to change your combat MO somewhat based on the spirits chosen

[solar storm]

Ohhh yeah that makes sense

[rapid wagon]

Oh what would yall consider the equivalent of a Inquisitor from 1e?

[solar storm]

Probably an Inquisitor?

[solar tendon]

the new vindicator class archetype is aiming for inquisitor

for ranger

in general ranger/investigator with cleric multiclass is pretty decent

[solar storm]

Oh fuck I didn't realize this was Pathfinder chat I thought I was 1 door up

[solar tendon]

pfff

[limber comet]

Sorry this future isn't grimdark

[rapid wagon]

Lol

[echo briar]

Ranger with a cleric dedication for the next month

Then vindicator

[limber comet]

I am really curious to see what all is in War of Immortals beyond the big juicy bits

I wanna see the niche storytelling tools

[rapid wagon]

How's ignition for a magus bread and butter cantrip?

[solar storm]

It's ok but not the ideal for spellstrikes

Which is IIRC Gouging Claw among cantrips

More flexible as an emergency ranged attack though

[rapid wagon]

Yeah I'm just not super interested in gouging claw and figure it's not like every other one is complete ass

I liked the electric one but figure incidental bouncing damage isn't that great

Frost one seemed neat for a staff fighting magus

[surreal basin]

Alright

Finished book 2 of stolen fate

Killed the man who incidentally killed my father

[true delta]

Nice

[eager mountain]

After the outlawed of alkenstar campaign there’s a kingdom of mutants forming in the wastes actually

So your not far off base

Like mostly funded off the money of being guides and traders for the components of pyronite

[rustic cape]

Ignition is good! You probably want more than one, anyway, for weaknesses and resistances and such.

[turbid dagger]

Nowadays Live Wire is the top Spellstrike spell

[warped orbit]

I'll note here that assuming you mean Electric Arc and Frostbite here, you can't actually use those for Spellstrike

You would need Expansive Spellstrike at least, and it has some issues with it compared to regular

[rapid wagon]

oh damn, i thought maybe you could

is it cause they're save based?

[worthy stump]

yup

[rapid wagon]

hmm so what actually ARE my cantrip fighting options? Ignition, Gouging Claw, slashing gust?

[turbid dagger]

Ignition, Gouging, Gust, Needle Darts, and Live Wire, off the top of my head
Live Wire has cracked scaling and does damage even on a miss so resistances aside its usually a solid go-too

[rapid wagon]

should i also generally be using my actual spell slots for utility/concentration/support magic and keep to cantrips for my spell attacking

oh hmm

live wire is also electric?

[turbid dagger]

Its slashing and electric yeah

What I usually do is a have a bunch of buffs and then one cast of sure strike at my lowest spell rank and one cast of a bigass attack spell in my highest one
So I can buff, slug it out with cantrip spellstrikes, BUT if a big enemy foolishly ends its turn next to me with spellstrike charged I can Sure Strike into the Big Spellstrike

[wary yoke]

Is there any way to eliminate the action tax for having to use an action to change grip when you’re using a two-handed weapon? I’m converting a PC from 1st to 2nd and he’s going to be a 2-handed magus battle medic, and effectively having to add an action to anytime I heal someone is really annoying and limiting.

[surreal basin]

Gotta say, I would run live wire by your gm

Since it’s… unusual, if not outright broken

[turbid dagger]

So Wardens Of Wildwood apparently gave us the God Of Magus Spellhearts??
https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e/items/clay-sphere-basic

Gouging Claw cantrip and its weapon spellheart effect is
It gives the attached weapon versatile BPS for one minute and
Makes its damage die go up once step until the end of your next turn

[warped orbit]

oh that thing, yeah

it's quite good

generally useful as a source of omni Versatile too

being effectively reusable Malleable Clay, though you do need to cast the cantrip for it

[rapid wagon]

question, is there any reason to just stabilize instead of treat wounds?

actual healing just seems better right out

[warped orbit]

well Administer First Aid to stabilize someone takes two actions
Treat Wounds takes ten minutes

so if they are Dying right now, maybe stabilize them first

[solar tendon]

mm

especially if they have persistent damage

[rapid wagon]

ahhh

gotcha ok

follow up

is it RAW possible to feed a potion to a dying person?

[warped orbit]

You can activate a potion with an Interact action as you drink it or feed it to another creature. You can feed a potion only to a creature that is within reach and willing or otherwise so helpless that it can’t resist.

so yes, you can

[rapid wagon]

ty

[solar storm]

Also this means you can feed potions to sickened unconscious/dying allies

[echo briar]

That is the drawback of two handed weapons. This is the closest thing you’ll get for the most part https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4789

But I wouldn’t try and convert a 1e character 1 to 1. They are very different systems mechanically, and there will be things you can do in one that you can not do in the other

[wary yoke]

"convert a character" being used in the "attempting to replicate his abilities in spirit"

The character in question in 1E was a Warlord that used Radiant Dawn, he's being converted forward as a magus because it's giving me the most similar combat loop

Even if every other option makes me hate 2E more

[solar storm]

There will be Commander coming out in about a month which is pretty warlord-y

[craggy thunder]

I forget is that the new martial class or an archetype?

[solar storm]

New class

Oh wait whoops it’s Battlecry

So much longer than a month

[wary yoke]

I've looked it over, and am not that impressed

[craggy thunder]

Oh yeah WOI is what's in a month

[wary yoke]

Unless they have completely overhauled Banner

[craggy thunder]

god I'm so excited for Animist

[solar storm]

Hard to say but generally there’s pretty substantial changes from the playtest

Yeah Animist is really cool

I’ve had one in my game since the playtest

[craggy thunder]

I am admittedly doing what I always do

And making any caster I can a spellsword

so my first build is a Sage with a Witness to Ancient Battles spirit

[wary yoke]

The warlord I played summed up was basically "share some abilities with allies, smash things with a nodachi, heal"

[craggy thunder]

That

Kinda sounds like Champ to me, tbh

[wary yoke]

Unless there are new Causes, none of the causes in Player Core 2 are a good fit

[craggy thunder]

Have you looked at the Marshal archetype?

I'm just covering bases here

[wary yoke]

Justice doesn't work because the character's entire motivation is to disrupt organized religion, Liberation causes a lot of cognitive dissonance because he doesn't respect other's choices because he thinks that anyone following a god is making a wrong choice, and Obedience has to follow some massive mental shortcuts to justify trying to bring down a kingdom

[wary yoke]

I have, but I figured that healing took precedence, plus the existance of Faithless Healing and Mortal healing means I can mechanically represent my character's dystheism

[craggy thunder]

fair enough lol

[wary yoke]

I knew that creating a 2E version of this character was not going to be possible 1:1

I created a slideshow to explain how this character works so my GM didn't have to read three books, lol

[craggy thunder]

I do honestly think your best option here is some kind of tanky martial with the marshal archetype <XD

[wary yoke]

Even then, I run into the problem of the damn action economy

[craggy thunder]

maybe Thaumaturge, if you're willing to give up your precious nodachi for a katana

[wary yoke]

Nope

We are already house-ruling that it qualifies for Unconventional Weaponry

[craggy thunder]

I really don't know then man, sorry xD

[rapid wagon]

maybe just a fighter with a dedication or something?

[wary yoke]

The reason I chose Magus is because that is the only class in 2E which has a similar action->recovery->action combat loop to a Path of War initiator, and it brings spells to the table to replace the 1E character's veils and maneuvers

[wary yoke]

And again, fighter would still run into the problem of having to essentially re-ready his weapon every time he does needs a free hand

[rapid wagon]

mm

[tough perch]

that or any character with a gun, but i suppose that wouldn't work for your concept either

one could argue that an investigator has a ready->action loop with DaS, but nodachi doesn't fit there either

maybe ranger?

if vindicator accepted non-deity faths and philosofies an atheist vindicator would have been perfect

but you'd get close to a action->hunt mark->action sort of loop

plus it's relatively easy to fit in spells, both warden spells or by archetyping

[rapid wagon]

drats

my champion has been infected by a slugspawn

and we have no easy solutions on hand

[wary yoke]

Vindicator?

[tough perch]

upcoming class archetype for ranger, in the war of immortals book

it's the name-changed inquisitor,

[wary yoke]

I'll have to check it out.

[wary yoke]

So the fun part about my character, he does follow an anti-theist philosophy, but that philosophy is empowered by someone that is, for all intents and purposes, a god himself. But in his words, he's just an empowered incarnation of a philosophy.

We've reworked Faithless Healing and Mortal Healing to fit with it

[rapid wagon]

kinda sounds like what oracles tap into

[tough perch]

then war of the immortals might give you two options to look at, since there's also the battle harbinger as a cleric class archetype more focused on martialing than the warpriest

[rapid wagon]

We gotta figure out how to translate slugspawn into 2e and how to remove one

[tough perch]

get slugged
i'd wager a cleanse affliction of third rank or higher would be the equivalent, assuming i got the right slugspawn thing

wait

does cr from first edition work more or less as dnd5e's?

like, pf1e cr 5 would be a medium encounter for a party of 4 level 5 player characters?

[wooden orbit]

I should really find a table to play the whole Outlaws AP

[tough perch]

if so that'd make a slugspawn something like a level 7 creature, which means cleanse affliction should probably need to be rank 4

[wooden orbit]

Was sorta toying around with making an Automaton pc just in case I ever get to play Outlaws again

Assuming an Automaton would fare well in Alkenstar and the wastes

[eager mountain]

Doesn’t play a part in the campaign

[wooden orbit]

why would you do this to me?

(I still want to play the AP regardless)

[worthy stump]

i think that was more or less it, yeah. theoretically speaking

in practice, creature power varied pretty significantly even within equal CRs

[crystal walrus]

Say i've had a spotty group attendance and wanna prep a one shot

what's good for one shots

[wooden orbit]

Kobold or goblin adventures

[crystal walrus]

mm

[clever cobalt]

How are the classes in SF2e playtest so far? Any stand out?

[wooden orbit]

Witchwarper I’ve heard nothing but positives

And I wanna play the playtest stuff and try out Witchwarper

[clever cobalt]

What's special about the Witchwarper?

[surreal basin]

Operative is cool but I feel like they could stand to move aim to d6

Uhhhh

[wooden orbit]

https://youtu.be/GHEHgcWSGxQ?si=71NrpLVl9hdyjYmc

[surreal basin]

Mystic is extremely baller

Honestly all of the classes are good

[wooden orbit]

Precog won’t exist as its own class in SF2E. It got folded into Witchwarper, so there is that

But Witchwarper is just weird and cool. I’ll let nonat1s explain

[clever cobalt]

I've seen the fluff of it, seeks neat

Dunno how it plays though

Or what the "gimmick" is per se

[wooden orbit]

Yeah nonat talks mechanics too

[clever cobalt]

Cool

But yeah the fluff looks reallymcool

[warped orbit]

the main thing about Witchwarper is that they can put up an AoE field, and then apply various effects to that area

[surreal basin]

Basically is short they get a zone they can - yeah

[wooden orbit]

Funnily enough that fluff makes Witchwarper the easiest of all the SF2E classes, currently, to fit into a PF2E campaign

[warped orbit]

Mystic is also pretty transferrable I think

Solarian would probably also work fine

[clever cobalt]

Ah, cool

[wooden orbit]

I love how they reworked Solarians

[clever cobalt]

And yeah, makes sense. Multiverse bullshit and whatnot.

[warped orbit]

Envoy probably fine mostly?
minus the tech one obviously

it's really mostly Soldier and Operative that you can't do as easily in PF2 I think

unless they go melee

[surreal basin]

I think operative other than the tech subclass would be fine

[clever cobalt]

One thing my party is discussing going from PF2e to SF2e

And we discussed maybe having the same party sent forward into Starfinder, as a potential path for that idea

[surreal basin]

Like, changing class as well!

?

[clever cobalt]

Probably

[worthy stump]

yeah, all the classes look good to me too. my players have had a few worries so far, but mostly on the end of a bit of jank with some interactions, and seeing how well certain things will scale into later levels

[rustic cape]

I love Soldier

The action loop is simple but lots of fun and has good variety depending on subclass choice

Also legendary class DC is

[surreal basin]

Primary target also lets you do

Absurd amounts of damage

[rapid wagon]

Soldier can do pf2 if they play the erudite or close quarters variants

[surreal basin]

Well, erudite still does the aoe stuff only with ranged weapons iirc

And there’s no ranged weapons that do aoe in pf2e

[rapid wagon]

Can't they also suppress with their glare or something?

[worthy stump]

they can yeah, although it's removable if the enemy takes an offensive action against you

[solar storm]

Planning a high level assassination has us looking for some off-meta as hell spells

Implement of Distruction and Reaper's Lantern never looked so good

[surreal basin]

Of IoD is cool

[solar storm]

Yeah but it's not usually "teleport 1000 miles to buy one" cool

[surreal basin]

I would ask for details but I’m playing prey for death in the near future myself so

No spoilers

[solar storm]

Ah I will not share more

[surreal basin]

Waffling between beast summoner and flurry ranger for it

[solar storm]

I am playing a Red Mantis Wizard

"How flammable does this place look?"
I like planning

Not my question to be clear but we're looking for the right things

[worthy stump]

arson is a legitimate tactic!

[solar storm]

Doubly so when the Fire/Air Kineticist asks

[worthy stump]

it's not subtle, but hey, whatever gets the job done

[surreal basin]

Did come up with a fucked tactic last night

Based on seeing an enemy do it

[solar storm]

Oh?

tfw you're the least sneaky person in the party

This small down ain't ready for this

[surreal basin]

use scouting eye to get line of sight of somewhere

and then dimension door to it

[rapid wagon]

oh new question, about magus. Starlit span is about bow magus pretty much?

[surreal basin]

yeah

well, any ranged

but yes

[rapid wagon]

could i do it with like... a returning throwing weapon even?

[solar storm]

Not quite my current loadout :p

[rapid wagon]

Cyan thats so much attack

Lasers

[surreal basin]

oh my god

"HELLO BE ASSASSINATED NOW"

Our party is so onboard for leaning into the mantis bit

it's gonna be incredibly obvious that we're red mantis

[solar storm]

knock knock open up the its real

[surreal basin]

like

awakened mantis monk - guy who summons a mantis - guy who rides a mantis - guy who turns into a mantis

[worthy stump]

sure could, yup

also oh god. eclipse burst on an assassination

well. if there are no witnesses left alive, then that's still a stealth kill, right?

[surreal basin]

i once blinded my party's wizard with an eclipse burst from a mummy

[surreal basin]

that was cool

[solar storm]

I have holy license to make it showy

It's also why I took shadow raid - calling the spirits of our previous targets to harass the enemy

[surreal basin]

tbh also considering gunslinger

for the same reason as uhh

summoner

which is that theyre both classes i wouldnt wanna play at low levels

[solar storm]

valid

[surreal basin]

To my credit I really tried with summoner

[frank crystal]

This is how you get to like, Michael Jackson levels of fame

[wooden orbit]

Gunslinger was fun with the little bit of Outlaws of Alkenstar I got to play

I learned the hard way that psychopomp summoner was not a good match for Strength of Thousands

[worthy stump]

yyyeah. the SoT game i'm in also had a friend of mine playing psychopomp summoner, but he retrained into one of the phantom eidolons instead

[surreal basin]

why isn't it good?

[clever cobalt]

I am curious ||what the repercussions for the Red Mantis will be during the War of Immortals||

And what they might do in that time

[surreal basin]

be sure to mark spoilers :3

[clever cobalt]

I didn't thunk it was spoilers but I'll mark it anyways

[surreal basin]

oh i just meant like

for the future

[clever cobalt]

Fair lol

My bad

[worthy stump]

uhh, i don't quite remember why, it's been a couple books since the change was made. but i think just too much of a focus on anti-undead with it, and not enough undead in the AP to justify it?

[clever cobalt]

Abomination Vaults seems to be the most dedicated anti-undead AP

Though I do wish we get a proper KoL AP at some point

[sinful gyro]

I imagine the upcoming Gravelands ones will help with more anti undead stuff

Although I'm surprised bloodlords wouldn't have a lot of it to?

[clever cobalt]

Oh there's a Gravelands AP?

Unless you mean the Orc one

[sinful gyro]

Theyres like, 3 connected ones coming out

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[sinful gyro]

Not sure when

[clever cobalt]

Do we know what comes after Spore Wars yet?

[sinful gyro]

Next year probably

[surreal basin]

oh yeah you do kill

a LOT of undead in bloodlords

like

a lot

the same way you fight a lot of humanoids in like

edgewatch

admittedly most uhhh

[sinful gyro]

Shades of Blood, the vampire AP sets in Azlant

[surreal basin]

most undead killing tools are understandably very illegal

[clever cobalt]

This is true but I can't imagine playing a KoL in Blood Lords lol

[clever cobalt]

Also sounds neat, got a link tk the page?

[sinful gyro]

I think having a psychopomp in blood lords would be weird but also kinda cool?

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Shades_of_Blood

We don't really know much about Shades of blood yet

[clever cobalt]

Neat

[sinful gyro]

Apart from the basic premise and it coming out after spore war

[clever cobalt]

Is it set in the past? Or is there a modern Azlant arwa

[sinful gyro]

Underwater vampire stuff sounds cool af thou

[clever cobalt]

Probably a dumb question but

Yeah it does

[sinful gyro]

Modern AFAIK?

[clever cobalt]

Huh wait, Azlant is near Arcadia

Wonder if that preludes an LO Arcadia book

[worthy stump]

possibly! people have been hoping one will come out since 2e's launch, haha

and yeah, the shattered remnants of Azlant do be in between Arcadia and Avistan

[limber comet]

It's basically a continent sundered into an archipelago

The algothullu really went "AND HERE COMES A GIANT FIST"

[worthy stump]

they sure did

and we didn't even get it as bad as we could have!

two whole azlanti gods sacrificed themselves to try and stop the starstone meteor, but didn't get all of it, it fragmented and hit golarion anyways

[limber comet]

Algothullu need to go back in their lane

[wooden orbit]

Psychopomp’s better for dealing with undead. SoT doesn’t really have a lot of that as I understand it

Would work better for something like Season of Ghosts

[surreal basin]

okay so

for prey for death im thinking of playing a catfolk crossbow user with the archer dedication

this will allow me to use a repeating crossbow and an arbalest

should i use fighter or ranger

[surreal basin]

Probably ending up going laughing shadow magus with only one sawtooth saber

The One Armed Mantis

[frank crystal]

Huh, that blood horseman does kinda look like the rogue tbh

[rustic cape]

Ears 2 short

[limber comet]

I'm so excited to see the lore developments of the war

[clever cobalt]

Same

[frank crystal]

Oh true yah

[echo briar]

Can a cleric of baphamet harvest plants? His anathema is killing anything that can not cause significant harm to you, and most plants are harmless

[surreal basin]

There are many plants you harvest without killing
Also for what it’s worth I think harvesting and then replanting is more just aiding in their life cycle

[silver geyser]

Alternatively

You must now only eat plants that fight back.

[rustic cape]

In keeping with Emily's first suggestion, maybe look at Jainist practices?

[fossil temple]

Pettah
The hornse is hear

[turbid dagger]

Clearly you just get your servants to do that
The servants you got by oppressing those who cannot significantly harm you

[wooden orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/mark-wahlberg-the-happening-plant-observe-gif-9315420

The Baphomet cultist weeks later after a harvesting spree.

[tough perch]

baphomet cultist that has a mild allergy to most plants

[light gyro]

oughhhhh i wanna play season of ghosts so bad

[eager mountain]

That’s the horseman of war, I think suzurial?

[clever cobalt]

She's a former valkyrie iirc

[frank crystal]

I know, she just kinda looks like the war horseman

[echo briar]

What’s the best 1 action meta strike?

[thorny berry]

stab and blast imo

[echo briar]

An action that is just a strike, with some additional benefit

[thorny berry]

oh, hm, that's more narrow

I can't actually think of a lot like that offhand

if it has to be just one strike

[echo briar]

Two strikes is a strike with an added benefit (a second strike)

[thorny berry]

ah then yeah I'm probably standing by stab and blast

two map-less attacks for one action is insane (tho the first does have to hit)

[echo briar]

That’s good, but i feel like it’s requirements hold it back

Those weapons are not exactly great otherwise

[thorny berry]

certainly the one that shows up in my builds the most is good old flurry of blows

[thorny berry]

you're not wrong

[turbid dagger]

Stumbling Feint is def the answer imo

[thorny berry]

oh actually yeah probably that

[turbid dagger]

Stab And Blast is HIGH up there though

[echo briar]

I think silencing strike probably has the highest highs by far, just shutting off a character

But it’s not much if the target can’t cast spells

[warped orbit]

my vote is Lunge personally

[surreal basin]

Twin Takedown?

Since it’s just one action double slice and double slice is incredible already

[warped orbit]

Twin Takedown has MAP still

[ocean cobalt]

strictly worse flurry

[warped orbit]

it's action compression rather than MAP cheating

[ocean cobalt]

imo its flurry or the mystic warrior thing. the various meta-flurries are probably better but idk how to count those

[clever cobalt]

What's Twin Takedown again?

oh Ranger thibng

[ocean cobalt]

flurry but with weapons and against hunted prey

do spells count as metastrikes bc for my money its inner upheaval

[turbid dagger]

Inner Upheaval stacks with Stumbling Flurry 🧠

[surreal basin]

cheating:the best metastrike is spellstrike

[echo briar]

I said 1 action

[turbid dagger]

I'm a fan of Predators Pounce, also, but I think its firmly not the best

[surreal basin]

Oh okay

Then yeah probably flurry lol

Why do you ask?

[rustic cape]

Stumbling Feint is probably the best action efficiency you can get

[rapid wagon]

Question for you lore heads but where might a magus come from in Ustalav during Carrion Crown?

Are there any notable magical institutions in or nearby?

Obviously one might come from a less notable institution or from elsewhere, but just curious for ways to tie a backstory onto the ongoing adventure when a connection to Lorramore isn't an option

[warped orbit]

Lepistadt has some fairly notable universities I believe

the university there is notable enough to have international renown

[rapid wagon]

Oh that could work, we briefly had some interaction with them and that could be an in for a replacement character

Since my champion has a slugspawn in his head and we might not have an easy answer to it

My next character concept had been a magus of some kind. Back in the day it was a black blade kensei, but now I'm debating between laughing shadow and the staff one

[clever cobalt]

Question, how would you fluff a Gnoll/Kholo Thaumaturge?

if that isn't super vague :v

if it matters they're from the Mana Wastes area

[rustic cape]

Monster hunter using traditional old kholo skills and techniques

Excited to learn new ways of doing things

[clever cobalt]

That works

[rustic cape]

Honestly thaum seems like an extremely natural fit for kholo

Since thaum is all about using a million tricks and skills to get things done

Plus kholo eat mighty foes, so thaum’s monster hunter flavor is fitting

[clever cobalt]

True

[light gyro]

try to use lots of bones, naturally

[rustic cape]

Of course

Kholo are big on effectiveness, efficiency, and solving problems with the right tool, right? All of that seems fitting

[vast burrow]

Just realized you need a specific subclass to shield block dragon breaths like they do in movies

Game's unplayable now 😔

[wary yoke]

This has been my entire PF2E experience

[rustic cape]

Counterpoint: how many games let you do that at all?

[vast burrow]

More than there should be smh

D&D's got a Feat for it iirc?

[solar tendon]

is there any magic shields that do it

[rustic cape]

If you mean 5e, Shield Master only works against single-target effects

[vast burrow]

Ah, awwwww

[solar tendon]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2818&Redirected=1

[vast burrow]

Welp I guess I'll take Sparkling Targe

[vast burrow]

Oooooh?

Oh now this

Hell yeah

[rustic cape]

I think there’s an archetype that can do it

[vast burrow]

Wait fr?

Oh right Reflexive Shield from Bastion/Fighter

Welp, I guess it does exist huh

The fighter has like 700 feats I forgot about that one

Yippee face-tanking a dragon's breath with a shield time (this will not end well for me)

[turbid dagger]

I WILL say
Sparkling Targe is very cool
As it turns out giving the biggest burst damage class in the game tons of extra durability is nice
You can draw aggro pretty well by virtue of 'that magus is about to charge spellstrike'

[echo briar]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ossianstudios/pathfinder-the-dragons-demand?lang=en

kickstarter is now live

The stretch goals seem weird

one familiar ability for $1,385,000?

multiclass architypes are a stretch goal?

also the in game rewards feel weird

[tough perch]

i would imagine that means the intention is that there would be good reactivity in the game world for that ability

[echo briar]

no, it seems to mostly have effect in combat with tripping and using items

[rustic cape]

The physical coins weird me out a bit

[surreal basin]

INCLUDING THE ICONIC FUMBUS

I wonder if having an iconic party member is like

A requirement of paizo like

[rustic cape]

Seelah was pretty good in WotR

Amiri was kind of a nothing in Kingmaker

[surreal basin]

No yeah seelah was fine

[wary yoke]

I remember playing Dragons Demand back in my PFS days

It's been sooooo long

Literally over a decade, christ

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I was expecting like
A class
not me crying crying sobbing crying that thaum is not in

[rustic cape]

Thaum is so good

[echo briar]

Classes honestly seems easier than ancestry’s because you don’t need new models

[rustic cape]

I think my next PF2e character will be another animist a thaum

I’m not big on the animation style

I’ll probably back it

But

[turbid dagger]

I am fine with the mini and dice aesthetic
Its cute and cheap

[surreal basin]

They require more coding tho

[echo briar]

It depends on the class, but something like the psychic shouldn’t be that bad

[wary yoke]

Can I get some eyes on an ancestry I'm trying to convert from our 1E setting? I've gotten the first draft list of heritages and ancestry feats so far

[rustic cape]

Sure

[wary yoke]

They are a draconic species of aliens that draw heritage from the PF1E Outer Dragons

Stellarborn - Uncommon
10 HP
25 speed
Darkvision
Stellar affinity: half/level resistant to energy, may key off other abilities

Clades- if using versatile ancestry, choose Clade that sets presentation and energy affinity.

Chronoborn- 8 HP from ancestry. Time Sense occult cantrip at Will, +1 bonus on initiative checks
Affinity: electricity
Evo: Time Shuffle: reaction: step, stride, or interact, become slowed 1 for two turns.

Lunarborn- Join Pasts and choice of either Shields, Daze, or Message occult cantrips at will, 10 minutes to change.
Affinity: cold
Evo: Moonlight Mindpaths: Mindlink 1/day, all three cantrips.

Solarborn- in bright light, gain fast healing equal to the number of ancestry feats you have (max 5). Gain light dependency as per Leshy’s plant nourishment, except you starve if deprived for more than one day.
Affinity: fire
Evo: Caged Sun: You gain the Die Hard feat and can heal the Wounded condition by spending six minus your fast healing rate minutes in natural sunlight

Voidborn- 8 hp from ancestry. Limited flight (must land or fall at end of round). Can hold breath minutes instead of rounds.
Affinity: void
Evo: Void Whispers: take damage to empower attacks or spells with void, does not heal void healing

Vortexborn- Warp Step occult cantrip at will. Double your speed for the purpose of overland travel
Affinity: fire
Evo: Warp Space: action to count as being in another space until end of turn

Feats
1-
Forebear’s Breath: breath weapon*
Forebear’s Aspect: gain natural attack*
Stellar Lore: Diplomacy/Athletics, Additional Lore
Blood of the Stars: regain heritage for versatile
Natural Mediator: social bonuses when dealing with non-Stellarborn
Ancient’s Eyes: Perception bonus, Intimidating Glare bonus feat

5-
Ancestor’s Wings: gain limited flight, or upgrade flight
Draconic Evolution: upgrade heritage ability. Gain Dragon trait.
Stellar Resistances: double resistance, bonus against sleep and paralysis.
Invoke Title: shrug off negative mental conditions.

9-
Devastating Breath: improve breath weapon*
True Flight: uncap or improve flight*
Wing Buffet: wing attacks*

13-
Cosmic engine: your affinity energy type pierces resistances.
Impossible Hope: you and all allies who see you gain a hero point 1/day

17-
Ancestor Form: dragon form*

*taken more-or-less unchanged from Dragonblood versatile heritage

[surreal basin]

Might be holding classes for dlc

[turbid dagger]

Thats my hope too
The temple of the dark tapestry DLC in particular seems like 'heyyyy this is dark archives'
But thats honestly
Probably copium

[wary yoke]

In 1E these were full-out heritages, all of them having different ability score boosts

[echo briar]

The base ancestry feels pushed. Resistance and dark vision?

The heritages also seem very good, giving you a cantrip and a very useful ability, essentially being 2 heritages combined into one

[wary yoke]

It's what they had in 1E

[echo briar]

Dwarves need to spend their heritage to get resistance and darkvision

[wary yoke]

They only get the evolution after a 5th-level ancestry feat, kind of like those bug guys in Howl of the Wild

[echo briar]

These just get them for free

No, I’m talking about the +1 to initiative and fast healing

Fast healing in particular being way too good

Resistance and cantrip should probably be feats instead of backed in

[surreal basin]

Yeah the solarborn is too much

[wary yoke]

What cantrip are you talking about?

[surreal basin]

I think the other stuff is fine for a slightly cranked race, I mean, human exists lol

[echo briar]

The free cantrip every heritage gets

[echo briar]

Humans don’t actually get that much. They just have good feats

[wary yoke]

Some of the heritages start with a cantrip, lunarborn start with two because share pasts is flavorful, but not very useful

I don't know how I could nerf solarborn, their schtick has always been solar healing

They're also what the original race was, I later expanded it to the other outer dragon types

[surreal basin]

Right, it’s just that like

It’s really easy to always be in bright light

So essentially have fast healing always

[solar tendon]

with battle oracle being taken out behind the shed and shot free healing is basically gone from the game except by spells or high level stuff

solarborn can just like

heal 1 hit point per 10 mins/hour in bright light

[surreal basin]

Well

How do you mean

[solar tendon]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4506

this is a level 9 feat

[surreal basin]

Cause focus point healing is basically free

[solar tendon]

oh sorry 'fast healing' not 'free healing'

free healing is all over the place

[surreal basin]

Yeah okay that makes sense

[solar tendon]

some fast healing is even replenishable

like the bard

[wary yoke]

Oh god that's lame

[solar tendon]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4315

[wary yoke]

But I see your point

[solar tendon]

this is a level 1 photosynthesis feature and it's just you don't gotta eat

[wary yoke]

There's fiction of a solarborn getting run through with a longsword, standing back up, and laughing it off

[surreal basin]

Yeah like…. If you don’t want to nerf these guys that’s YOUR prerogative

[wary yoke]

Again, it's their whole thing

[surreal basin]

But it’s way stronger than any other other heritage

In the entire game

[solar tendon]

a lot of stuff that used to be by default for an ancestry got like, slightly buffed but moved to an ancestry feat

[surreal basin]

It’s REALLY GOOD

[solar tendon]

fast healing is Incredibly Good

[wary yoke]

I'll change it back to sunlight only

[solar tendon]

like one class took a bunch of nerfs to get it free at level 1 and then they even removed that

[wary yoke]

Which will bring back the original "powerful in their element" thing

[surreal basin]

Mhm

Still really good but definitely less like

“Always incredibly powerful”

[wary yoke]

In 1E I changed it from sunlight to bright light because it was never getting any play except to heal up after combat

Which is the other reason I looked at the leshy feat and immediately disregarded it

[wary yoke]

Aaaaah now I'm seeing it, I forgot that Light now was Bright Light

In 1E Daylight was necessary to be bright enough

[surreal basin]

Yeah no in 2e like

Torches

And lanterns

Are bright light

[wary yoke]

Christ

I hate to be a grognard, but

[dapper tusk]

that's pretty reasonable

a lit torch makes a room as bright as an open window does

if someone's holding a lit torch behind me when i'm trying to read something, i wouldn't say "it's too dark for me to make it out properly"

if you can comfortably read by it, it's bright light. otherwise, it's dim light.

[wary yoke]

I want to know where you are getting torches

Wait

Is there no "normal" light anymore?

[dapper tusk]

i always thought it was just "bright" and "dim"?

[warped orbit]

Define normal

[wary yoke]

Not in 1E

[dapper tusk]

if "normal" is a separate level, then it would be reasonable for torches to be that

but i can't think of where bright light would come from besides magic

[warped orbit]

2e just has bright, dim, darkness

[wary yoke]

Torches and the Light cantrip produced normal light, it took the sun or Daylight to make Bright light

[warped orbit]

I think some stuff distinguishes between sunlight specifically, but that's only for those features

[rustic cape]

You may want conceptualize this as more of a mid-to-high-level thing

[wary yoke]

Light sensitive creatures were actually fine with normal light IIRC

It was Bright light that messed them up

[rustic cape]

I know it's more work, but I could easily see feat chains for these involving multiple evolutions to realize their potential

Which also imo lets you make the potential a little wilder?

[wary yoke]

I mean the high level version was stabbed and then buried, then wandered for a few days in a desert with a scimitar sticking out of him

[ocean cobalt]

i don't think the fast healing solarborn gets is that much better than any of the other heritages presented here tbh

like in combat if you math it out it's going to be... 4 extra hp at 1st level, 12 extra hp at 9th level, 20 extra hp at 17th level. like. meh

and out of combat it basically just means the party healer doesn't have to Treat Wounds you which is strong but not like beyond the pale

[solar tendon]

even 1 fast healing means you auto revive

[ocean cobalt]

thats true, yeah

[solar tendon]

(also 2 extra hp, full stop, is a heritage for some ancestries)

[ocean cobalt]

fast healing at >0 hp and then a feat to get it to full fast healing

[ocean cobalt]

those heritages are good for the feats they let you access not in and of themselves

[solar tendon]

or sorry +2 hp and the diehard feat

fast healing only when conscious does a lot to help

but tbh I'd imagine that would receive the same response

[ocean cobalt]

well then that response would be wrong

[ocean cobalt]

oh i guess bump it up to 8hp at 3 16 at 9 24 at 17 if you feel like factoring in that one feat but like big whoop lol

[echo briar]

4 hp at level 1 is a huge deal

That’s the difference between a wizard and a fighter

[ocean cobalt]

not if it's spread across 4 rounds in 1hp increments lol

[ocean cobalt]

it's the difference between a level 1 wizard and a level 1 fighter

also it absolutely just isn't considering armor proficiency, lol

[dapper tusk]

Investigator barely failed Treat Wounds check
"Do I get the +1 from my Pursue A Lead?"
"No, this doesn't have anything to do with your investigation-actually, you did just solve the mystery you'd been following for a while, so you don't even have one right now."
"Can my new investigation be into the mysteries of half-elf anatomy?"

[wary yoke]

The other thing I was wary of, besides the evolution abilities, was Impossible Hope, I think it's fine even though I didn't find many other hero point stuff

[wary yoke]

Also, if apparently my Stellarborn are hideously strong, he have another ancestry called Castoffer that is hilarious

They're technically constructs, and each of the heritages have some way of fending off final death

Two of them have what are called black boxes that can be buried in 6 bulk of organic material for them to reconstruct the body

Hmm. Now that I know more about PF2E light, would an ancestry feat that upgraded low-light to darkvision and granted Intimidating Glare be too much for one feat?

Wait, I realized that Intimidating Glare also needs trained intimidation

[echo briar]

Honestly that’s not that strong

Particularly if it takes like a year or something to regrow

[wary yoke]

A day

Well, 8 hours

[echo briar]

Again, not that strong TBH

[solar storm]

I think that is pretty strong actually

[echo briar]

Death is kinda easy to overcome at later levels, and if it takes 8 hours, it’s not mechanically stronger than a replacement character

[solar storm]

That's not a relevant comparison at all dude

[echo briar]

I honestly think it is. Death is more of a narrative thing than a mechanical one, and if gms want a different narrative that’s fine

[solar storm]

Maybe you should think of it that way in private then - I don't think that's good feedback on homebrew

[echo briar]

Well I don’t think it’s his homebrew, it’s someone else’s.

If it was his I would be giving very different feedback, because there’s better ways to implement it

[solar storm]

I don't think that's relevant either - but what I'm ultimately saying is that I think you're coming off as rude and dismissive and should change your tack on the channel

[echo briar]

Sorry, that was not my intention

[solar storm]

No worries

[worthy stump]

the Ghoran ancestry works in a very similar fashion, just with seeds since they're all plant people. could look at them for something similar to work off of, perhaps?

oh wait no, they changed that from PF1, never mind

[wary yoke]

Vamp is providing valid feedback, and I appreciate it

[worthy stump]

i could have sworn there was an ancestry out there with a sort of 'prepared revival' high level ancestry feat, but now i can't find any 😔

[wary yoke]

And it feels like you are using your position as a mod to convince someone who doesn't agree. Anyway, it's not quite mine to share, so I'll drop that bit of development

[surreal basin]

Man

Realizing my Starfinder party has really limited healing

Not a huge fan of how having a healer feels like

Absolutely necessary in 2e but the options to get it in Starfinder are pretty limited

[solar storm]

Oh is it harder to splash a little healing capacity compared with PF2?

[worthy stump]

i think Mystic is pretty much the only class you can gear to do some proper healing. but the usual Medicine routes are still available

[surreal basin]

At least in the playtest your options feel like take mystic or dump all your skills into medicine

[solar storm]

That's interesting

I struggle to keep complicated playtest iterations separate so I've kind of been sitting out the Starfinder one

But it sounds pretty different from PF2 where my Wizard is a pretty capable side healer with just a few skill feats

[worthy stump]

you can still do that in SF2, tbf

i think it just kinda stings a bit more since there are two more skills, and the skill feats in the playtest are actually kinda good

[surreal basin]

the medicine stuff is really similar but like

medicine healers arent really good without the medic dedication until like

later levels

[solar storm]

Oh yeah, that would make it painful

I am routinely saved in my building by like half the PF2 skills having generally skippable skill feats

[solar storm]

That's also super true yeah, I am just level 14 which makes it easier

[worthy stump]

yeahhh. in base PF2, outside of Athletics, Intimidation, and Medicine, most skill feats feel really lackluster

while it does take a good few skill feats to fully get going though, i do think medicine in general is serviceable before that for general healing purposes. just really need battle medicine for the most part, and then rely on 10 minute treat wounds outside of that- even having one or two more party members just trained in medicine can help with out of combat recovery too. it does immediately show problems when you have some sort of time pressure, though

[trail nova]

I do wish that SF2e was more aggressive in handing out skill increases. Particularly since there’s two more skills to cover, and computers is critical, while the space combat rules will likely make piloting also a party must-have

[solar storm]

Yeah that seems pretty fair

Skill increases in general feel pretty ungenerous in PF2

I don't think its a problem but I think its close to one

[trail nova]

Yeah. It’s one of my two or three biggest gripes with the system, the other ones being Three Action often being very clunky and not particularly beneficial, and the final one being the lack of a 2/3rds caster setup.

[solar storm]

What would a 2/3rds caster look like?