Pathfinder

[limber comet]

Morningstar

[frank crystal]

One guy who just fucking hates magic

[echo briar]

The Starlit sentinel is based on the Golarian horoscope right? is there an evil consolation?

Like Capricorn I think is the bad one IRL?

[solar tendon]

alien

like from akiton or something

[turbid dagger]

Dark tapestry would be cool
The darkness between the stars

Literally

[solar tendon]

yeah

[frank crystal]

What’s that?

[heavy fulcrum]

dark tapestry is where the outer gods and great old ones hang out

its sort of a non-place because well, its where the outer gods have absolute power

[solar tendon]

alien from akiton who worships a member of the dark tapestry

[heavy fulcrum]

dark tapestry isn't a faction, its a location, sort of

the most relevant faction is the Dominion of the Black, who worship the outer golds and great old ones in varying ways (the dominion is basically 10,000 cults who usually share a name)

but the relevant deities are just "The Great Old Ones" and "The Outer Gods"

Cthulhu, Hastur, Bokrug among the former, Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, Nyarlathotep among the latter

[solar tendon]

ah mb

[frank crystal]

Oh that would be good

[turbid dagger]

Oh by 'dark tapestry' I was just using it as shorthand for like
Aberrations

Awful things from space

[limber comet]

Yeah, the Dark Tapestry is a bit different

It's a place between galaxies

[frank crystal]

Either way it’s a good idea probably

Do something like an evil former magical girl who’s summoned a bunch of aberrations

Solid one shot idea

[echo briar]

Is there a reason other than "we needed to make this outer god more evil" that Yog-Sothoth has "curse or mutate unborn children" as one of his two edicts? https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=166

[limber comet]

He does that in one of the Lovecraft stories

...Dunwich, I think?

[echo briar]

That seems to have nothing with everything else, which is about space, time, and dark truths

[limber comet]

Not entirely sure

[solar storm]

Pretty extensively yeah

[limber comet]

Yeah but like

The story he was introduced in, he mutated two unborn kids

Why? Uhhhh

Because he can

[echo briar]

and that became half of his core pathfinder identity apparently

[solar storm]

He doesn't really... do much else in Lovecraft's writing haha

Those 2 edicts are most of what his followers get up to

[echo briar]

You control space and time a hundred times, you do not become the space and time guy. You guard cosmic secrets for hundreds of years, you do not become the cosmic secrets guy. But if you mutate two children...

the weird thing is that he's on the cosmic caravan

apparently he is 100% committed to "help the desperate or forlorn to see potential for a better life in the future"

[limber comet]

I mean Yog-Sothoth is like, one of the least explored outer gods

[true delta]

Any hunch as to when Nethys and Pathbuilder will get the Player Core 2 stuff?

[surreal basin]

theres genuinely no way to tell

itll happen sometime, eventually
Beyond that, the remaster has fucked their pipeline immesnely

[fossil temple]

.
Do all of then talk like this?
Adorbs

[sinful gyro]

Look out for the stomach mouths

[limber comet]

As someone who has played Starfinder

Yes

They do all talk like that

[fossil temple]

The TikTok species is real

[fossil temple]

the what

[limber comet]

Yeah, they have stomach mouths

[fossil temple]

I am glad they are friendly

[limber comet]

...sometimes they're not

Stridermanders are a thing

[fossil temple]

1 fear

[limber comet]

Yeah sometimes that just happens

[fossil temple]

how

[limber comet]

Good question!

No idea

[fossil temple]

They remind me of Nopon

In behavior

The pathfinder comics are fun, I recommend

[limber comet]

Valeros is great

Ideal fighter

[fossil temple]

Definitely a Dex fighter
has a bow and fights with two weapons

Tho the design of the girls are very-
2000

Why there is so much cleavage

[fossil temple]

The Inquisitor Half-Ork would be a Warpriest in 2e, yes?

[limber comet]

Uh

Actually no

She's getting an archetype specifically dedicated to her in War of Immortals

[fossil temple]

oh

[limber comet]

If I'm not mistaken

[solar tendon]

for ranger I think

class archetype

[limber comet]

I could be wrong but

Yeah

[solar tendon]

which she is returning as iconic for

[limber comet]

Because Inquisitor is a bit yucky due to context

[fossil temple]

Oh that's awesome

[fossil temple]

Can you elaborate?

[limber comet]

I am not historically knowledgeable to elaborate beyond I know that they wanted to no longer use inquisitors due historical reasons

[fossil temple]

That is enough to know that yeah, maybe Inquisitor is not the best title to have under your name

[echo briar]

yea, was there any time in human history where there was an inquisition that wasn't horrible?

[clever cobalt]

Oh shit War of Immortals is next month

[solar tendon]

religious persecution is bad

I think fantasy vaguely has the justification that there are magical doomsday cults but there's still no need for it to be connected to irl stuff

[clever cobalt]

Also, it was a 1e thing

[solar tendon]

there's also lore changes cause like

they've kinda moved away from the idea that like

the cult of the dawnflower gets sarenrae powers n such

so you need inquisitors to stop bad worshippers of your god or vice versa

[fossil temple]

Yeah, like-
A inquisitor of Pharasma would basically hunt necromancer and people trying to fuck souls

...
Would a Inquisitor of Shelyn would go after AI and stolen art?

[surreal basin]

Yeah probably

Also enemy gods/cults

[frank crystal]

Hmm, for a lightning focused sorcerer would elemental or dragon with a lightning one be better for my bloodline?

[thorny berry]

oh damn

excited to see mythic stuff in full and how the classes have changed since playtest

especially the gish animist with battle oracle being dead

[turbid dagger]

To be clear, Stridermanders are afaik a seperate species
The tiger to the skittermanders housecat

[silver geyser]

There's also juvenile Skittermanders

[sinful gyro]

That's a Goa'uld system lord

[echo briar]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6wkdl?Meet-the-Iconics-Nahoa#discuss

[sinful gyro]

Cool way to fit the hero archtype of the examplar without having like an OP backstory

[clever cobalt]

I like this

[warped orbit]

it's about what I expect of most Exemplars really

though you could also play an Exemplar that is more intentionally empowered by a god

[frank crystal]

Sorc bloodlines werent changed much in the remaster right?

[light gyro]

what the cinnamon toast fuck is this, pathfinder

[turbid dagger]

The fundamental structure was not swapped around, but some specific effects were
For example Imperial's blood magic is different

[frank crystal]

Oh ok

So then non remastered bloodlines like pheonix can still be used then

Sweet

[keen raptor]

Elemental has different granted spells and damage types for their focus spells with each element now, which is pretty neat.

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

[keen raptor]

Though the non-fire ones are still all some flavor of physical for whatever reason.

[frank crystal]

Kinda surprised elemental was remastered though

Didn’t it come out in ROE?

[keen raptor]

Metal gets a bunch of lightning spells in its granted spells, but its focus spells deal piercing, which is certainly a choice

[limber comet]

Nope! Elemental bloodline was not in RoE

[frank crystal]

Oh it wasn’t?

[limber comet]

Elemental Barbarian and Elemental Eidolons

But no Sorc

[frank crystal]

So then the remaster was more bringing it up to speed with RoE standards

[limber comet]

Pretty much

Though it is a bit weird they didn't give it damage options like kineticist

[frank crystal]

Yah I do wish they didn’t just default to physical damage for non fire elements

Do something like cold for water, electricity for metal and air and maybe keep physical for earth and wood

[limber comet]

Even Wood got a different damage type

Poison

[keen raptor]

At least slashing for air and piercing for metal makes some amount of sense rather than just bludgeoning for everything

[limber comet]

Lol

To be fair, bludgeoning for water makes sense

As someone who has accrued many bruises from getting pummeled by waves

[limber comet]

I really wonder what the new options for Exemplar will be

[echo briar]

I’m hoping they fill out the elemental options and give us fire stuff

Because the playtest seemed to cover every element except fire

[limber comet]

Well the Earth one dipped into volcanoes and got fire as an option

[eager mountain]

for reference, skittermander have belly mouths when they are children

OR if you take the everwelp heritage

[fossil temple]

that's horrifying, thank you

What is that
APendage?
Like, is like an extra mouth? it looks like.. a parasite

[eager mountain]

nah

they just have bellymouths and just lose them as they grow up

uhhh, skitterwelps as thier called

[fossil temple]

Amazing

[heavy mesa]

Its like a big toothy umbilical cord

[eager mountain]

After 6 years, whelps mature into adult skittermanders, begin to walk upright, and lose their secondary mouths, but they maintain their taste for anything remotely edible. Skittermanders living in tropical climes have short, soft fur, while their arctic cousins grow tough, shaggy hair. Their coloration varies even more, with tones of blue, green, and violet being the most common, but with no obvious correlation to their surroundings.

Skitterwhelps look like miniature skittermanders, save that they scrabble around on all eight limbs, have bigger ears, and have a secondary, tube-like mouth that sprouts from their abdomen. Skitterwhelps fend for themselves after birth, devouring fruits, seeds, leaves, raw meat, and any other source of nutrients they can cram into their mouths. A skitterwhelp’s stomach-mouth can attach to large prey and secretes numbing saliva, enabling them to cling to large animals and feed on them over time like a furry leech. Despite their diminutive size, they’re voracious, capable of eating three times their weight in food each day. Skitterwhelps mature into skittermanders around the age of six, when their stomach-mouths detach and they gain sapience. They retain their large and undiscerning appetite throughout their lives. - the starfinder 2e playtest

https://tenor.com/view/bobawooyo-dog-confused-dog-huh-dog-meme-shocked-dog-gif-4333601888872373336

.....it....it detaches and gains sapience

or the skitterwelp gains sapience

[echo briar]

I feel like "Once born, whelps are left to fend for themselves" and "are mammals" are mutually exclusive

Like, parenting is one of the defining features of a mammal

I would put it above hair and warm bloodedness

it is literally named after an organ solely used for parenting

[eager mountain]

thier near mindless, nigh unquenchable ambush parasites.

but uhhh yeah , skittermanders arrrrreeee a bit forgetful

[echo briar]

Yea, which makes them non mammals

The young need to drink milk. That is the definition of mammal

[eager mountain]

Skittermanders cheerfully accept jobs given to them by vesk, but never truly acknowledge them as the rulers of their planet. Some outsiders believe skittermanders are being deliberately obtuse to annoy their vesk 'overlords' and maintain their autonomy while still reaping the rewards of being part of the Veskarium.

Skittermanders can be found across the galaxy in positions that allow them to aid as many people as possible. Their employers have to give them missions with open-ended parameters, as a skittermander who feels they have completed a task can be distracted from reporting back by someone whom they think that needs their help. They're often compared to goblins without the goblins' malice.

the vesk showed up to conquer them and the skittermanders were just like "OK! , what you wanna do today ?"

[echo briar]

Unless skittermsnders somehow produce milk that never gets used, but if it never gets used is it actually milk or just a nutritional liquid?

[eager mountain]

they might, idk

Eventually, in a meeting later considered to be the official date of Vesk-3's conquest, a vesk general plainly told a group of skittermanders that the Veskarium ruled their planet. The skittermanders nodded and got back to their lives. Since then, the Veskarium has been ruling Vesk-3, though not really in control of it.

[eager mountain]

There's no parental care in skittermanders, and their whelps have to fend for themselves.

thats all it says

[echo briar]

Actually, due to intelligent design being a thing in starfinder, skittermanders could be mammals purely because a god says so

[eager mountain]

Skittermanders are omnivorous, capable of digesting leaves, fruits, seed and meat. Their abdominal mouths allow them to attach to and graze at large prey. Less intelligent animals rarely notice this, due to the numbing mucus secreted by the mouth.

[eager mountain]

I mean waht else would they be ?

rodent ?

[echo briar]

We can make new kingdom

[eager mountain]

the skitter-dom

[echo briar]

I feel like making new classifications is a given when it comes to alien taxonomy

[surreal basin]

rodents are mammals
that point aside, no real point in assigning space stuff to existing kingdoms

[eager mountain]

mabye thier a form of like ...panda

pandas dont really care for thier young

lol

[echo briar]

Yea, which is weird why the book does it

[eager mountain]

7 limbed pandas

[echo briar]

They do. Not well but they nurse which is the important part

[eager mountain]

fair

I think it just means that the little welps hunt on thier own not that the skittermanders DONT care

they care

[solar tendon]

i mean like

hm

theyd still be mammals if they'd evolved/been adapted away from nursing n such

like if they have vestigial mammaries

[sinful gyro]

Reminder, the Bathru absorbs party members to steal their DNA

[carmine egret]

Technically there's a lot more to Mammalia than nursing, like skeletal structure, but more importantly the purpose of anatomical markers is to determine relation

You're only a mammal if you share the same common ancestor as other mammals

Technically, aliens wouldn't even be classified as animals

[solar tendon]

yeah exactly

[carmine egret]

Taxonomically speaking at least

[solar tendon]

the focus on nursing was because it was in response to an earlier argument that nursing was the most important thing

[carmine egret]

Fair

[solar tendon]

but it's like, with intelligent design

if a god took some other mammal and made it into this thing

it could still be a mammal

[carmine egret]

I'm just kind of a pedant about these things sometimes. Yeaaah that does throw a wrench into it lol.

[echo briar]

Alien taxonomy gets weird, but if we can call a bunch of unrelated plants "trees" we can call unrelated things "mammals"

But just as producing wood and being tall are necessary to be called a tree, making milk is necessary to be called a mammal

[echo briar]

So, the timing of the godsrain concedes almost perfectly with the stock market crash that lead to the great depression.

I think Gorum was secretly Abadars greatest banker

[vivid lark]

I really thought making a minotaur character would be easy (cleric of Baphomet, Lord of the Labyrinth) but then they have to give us stealthy options in the ancestry stuff so now I feel like I need to make a rogue

[clever cobalt]

We did learn how and why Gorum dies in Prey for Death

[echo briar]

Investment fraud?

[light gyro]

abadar slipped akckekhek acehkek red guy a twenty

[clever cobalt]

||Suicide by cop with the help of Calistria||

[light gyro]

woah for real? ||prophecy shit again?||

[echo briar]

||is there a reason given, or is that being saved for WotI?||

[clever cobalt]

Spoilers for Gorum's Death and Prey for Death

[frank crystal]

Oh shit

[echo briar]

||that feels kinda weak||

[frank crystal]

||Dude got tired of being called upon for evil purposes||

||Didnt really expect that from him tbh||

[echo briar]

||then again, this is a short blurb in an AP. Gorums motivations will likely be expanded in WotI||

[solar storm]

Probably helps to say what the book for spoilers is

[thorny berry]

||I'm not crazy about it, why would an incarnated god of war even care about 'evil purposes' that is generally how it is with, you know, war||

[light gyro]

||war fuckin suuuuuuuuuuuuucks||

[light gyro]

||this is canon now||

[echo briar]

||wait, what if this is all a cover up? what if Gorum lost everything in the earth stock market crash and this is a way to get out of his debts?||

[turbid dagger]

I kind of vibe hard with ||Gorum getting tired of people using his name to commit atrocities for their own sake, rather than fight war for actual Reasons||

[wary yoke]

||He's always had a leaning away from evil, he has/had his realm in Elysium||

[limber comet]

This just makes me like Gorum even more

[echo briar]

When do AP character guides usually come out relative to the APs release date? its like a month before hand right

[vast burrow]

||Damn that's all it took to get Achaekek to go "Aight, killin you."||

||Even the literal god of war got tired of mortals' shit 😭||

[warped orbit]

they tricked him IIRC

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, ||Gorum asked Calistria for a way to give him a worthy death, and Calistria insinuated to Achaekek that Gorum is a pretender at true divinity||

[light gyro]

||"he's on that 'divinity constructed by mortal belief' discworld shit, jump him."||

[rapid wagon]

anyone know how much money players should have at level 5 for the starfinder playtest

or do i use PF as guidance

and equate gold to credits?

[sinful gyro]

Use the PF guide

The credit to silver ratio is 1:1

1 Gold is 10 credits

1 Silver is 1 Credit

1 Credit is 10 copper

[rapid wagon]

got it ty

so for It Came From the Vast players start with 2700 credits

[sinful gyro]

Yup, pf2e starts level 5 players with 270g

Unless It Came From the Vast says something different

[surreal basin]

oh i played it came from the vast

it was cool

[rapid wagon]

nice, nah i couldnt find any guidance on player starting money/equipment so decided to go with pf guidance

some of em are carrying over their characters from glass planet, others are making a new char

in the adventure i mean

couldnt find additional guidance

[sinful gyro]

I've really enjoyed running Cosmic Birthday

[rapid wagon]

thats next up after it came from

hopefully

[sinful gyro]

Minus like 2 bad combat encounters

[frank crystal]

So what’s up with the strix hating humans so much?

They’ve got like several feats dedicated to it

[turbid dagger]

They only live on one particular mountain in Cheliax and Cheliax is trying to make sure they stop living in that one place

[frank crystal]

Oh I see

[fossil temple]

Why him tho?
Was he too similar to a D&D god?

[craggy thunder]

I think they just felt it'd make an interesting story

And he's only really similar to a D&D god in that he's a god of war

Of which in the Forgotten Realms there are many

[fossil temple]

That's fair, and yeah it is a interesting topic to touch upon

He's a god of war
War brings a ton of ruin and misery and assholes don't play fair

[limber comet]

There could be a ton of interesting stories to tell with the death of any god

As seen in Urgathoa's prophecy, a god dying doesn't mean their domain sputters or fails

In fact, it might make things much worse/better, depending on your stance

[craggy thunder]

I was personally carrying the torch of Calistria being oofed because 'god of revenge dies' sounds like a great way to get a whole religion's worth of people to do adventure starting activities

[vast burrow]

||Yeah I got that, that's what I was refering to when I said that's all it took, "Actually he's not a true god he's just, kinda like, different I guess"||

[limber comet]

I mean, I doubt that's the full depth of it; ||who knows what Calistria told Achakek, and what it included||

[vast burrow]

Yeah I assume it'll be covered more in-depth in the actual WoI book

[limber comet]

We'll know next month :3

[clever cobalt]

Neat

[heavy mesa]

I love them

Golarion needs more Pickle Chefs

[eager mountain]

in agents of edge watch you gotta handle 2 goblin food cart owners squabling about which one makes authentic goblin food

tho ive never had people that wanna play edge watch

since you play as cops

spoilers for edgwatch

I do love the names tho

" everything friend "

and Pelmo's pickle hut

[heavy mesa]

God i love Absalom Working Class snippets

[keen raptor]

I love this.

[echo briar]

Has Baba Yaga seen steamboat Willie?

[limber comet]

Yes

I feel like she would have

[turbid dagger]

Does anyone have a link to that bit of short fiction on the paizo blog about a loving family where the mom is a good hag

[heavy mesa]

Oh? That’s a thing?

[turbid dagger]

I'm trying to confirm I didn't hallucinate it
Its from the kids POV
'I know mom's very strange but she loves dad very much', that kind of vibes

I found it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[turbid dagger]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6shk6

[limber comet]

I need more Pathfinder fiction

[clever cobalt]

They're making a War of Immortals book, following some Iconics

[limber comet]

I know

I need more

[sinful gyro]

There's like, a lot to pick from

[warped orbit]

so apparently in Curtain Call, a bunch of things about Norgorber are revealed

[clever cobalt]

Oh?

Eager to hear them

Should probably spoil if you post thougg

[warped orbit]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1fa6tgz/norgorbors_real_name_finally_revealed/

just gonna link this thread

has stuff in the main post and some in the comments

[clever cobalt]

||It's Gorbin time||

[warped orbit]

yep

[trail nova]

... really love the joke of ||"ascend, ascend!"||

[rapid wagon]

Hmm if I wanted to play a sort of robe wearing, glaive or Spear master-y wanderer character, what's your class rec? I feel like monk gets expert in unarmored which is useful in guessing

[solar tendon]

yeah if you want your robes to be unarmoured monk is your best bet

both from expert at level 1 and abilities that synergise with being unarmoured

[warped orbit]

Exemplar may also be an option once that comes out

[solar tendon]

o ye. that

too

[rapid wagon]

Oh yeah

That could be fun

Can it be done with a swashbuckler?

Finesse Spear or something

[solar tendon]

if you're happy for your robe to be light armour mechanically I think so?

[turbid dagger]

Damn...... I was bouncing around ideas for a game centered around Norborber's true identity
But oh well, that was likely never gonna actually exist anyway

[surreal basin]

With maxed out Dezignz being in explorers clothing is fine

What

I

Maxed out DEX

What the fuck was that autocorrect

Especially since after you hit +6 armor starts actively being a detriment lol

[worthy stump]

to be fair, +6 only happens at, like. 17? whenever you get apex items

[echo briar]

Only in a ABP game

Otherwise you will always be ahead unless you’re gm is comically starving you for runes

[surreal basin]

Bweh?

You can put runes on explorers clothes

[echo briar]

Yes. And it has a dex cap

[worthy stump]

explorer clothes have a +5 max dex, yeah]

[warped orbit]

light armor and unarmored is the same once you cap out Dex

[worthy stump]

you'd need... whatever bracers of armor are called now

[echo briar]

To avoid a dex cap, you need to be naked

Or wear non explorers clothes I guess

[worthy stump]

oh no, they have a +5 max dex mod now too, rip

[surreal basin]

Oh huh yeah

[warped orbit]

still bracers of armor, but they are basically just more expensive Explorer's Clothing

[surreal basin]

Anyway uh

Point being it kinda doesn’t matter I guess

If you have good dex wearing robes doesn’t fuck you

[warped orbit]

well okay, they have one upside I guess
namely you can attach runes to them as if they were light armor

[surreal basin]

You won’t have crazy ac but you won’t be like

Getting blown up

[echo briar]

The meta for ABP is to wear clothing not fit for adventuring at all at higher levels

[worthy stump]

just like in my vidja game rpgs...

but yeh, going above +5 dex mostly just helps for to-hit and skills, it won't really have any meaningful way to help your AC at the levels you can have it at 6

and reflex, too

[frank crystal]

what are the classes in WOTI?

[echo briar]

Animist, a spell caster that communes with spirits and can change its subclass very easily, and the exemplar, a martial inspired by hero’s of myth like Heracles or Maui whose been giving a divine spark that they move between their ikonic equipment

Also a bunch of class archetypes, which is weird because we almost never get class archetypes

I wonder if this is a trend or if they just had a bunch of class archetype ideas that fit in

[warped orbit]

hard to say

they have said they don't like making class archetypes as much because they are very niche

but with a lot of content already covered now, we might be seeing more of them

[surreal basin]

They’re kinda niche but tbh I hope we see more of them

[turbid dagger]

Someone is liveblogging the tian xia world guide to me on another server
And apparently
There's a super chill hobgoblin nation in Tian Xia's darklands?

Like, 'the most generally friendly civilization in tian xias darklands' chill

[limber comet]

I think class archetypes are probably gonna be the future cuz they're gonna run outta class ideas eventually

[echo briar]

They can always bring back vampire hunter as a full class

[limber comet]

Ha

[true delta]

Omg, yes

[limber comet]

Even as a player I'm excited for npc core

[eager mountain]

wait till war of immortals comes out , theres gonna be a mythic spear man fighhter archetype

[kind oracle]

mano po

[rustic cape]

Is there any reason magus with free archetype psychic wouldn’t work?

Imaginary weapon for spellstrike?

[warped orbit]

Nah it works
It's a very popular choice

Amped Imaginary Weapon is one of tge best options for Spellstrike

[rustic cape]

Does it still hit two people, or is it just for the heightening?

[warped orbit]

Just one, unless you use Spell Swipe

[rustic cape]

Gotcha

Nonetheless heightening scaling at double speed is huge

And I guess between it and gouging claw you can do all three physical damage types

Rad

[limber comet]

The blood mage "wave caster" homebrew class I like got a new unarmed themed subclass

Or, well

One handed weapon

[echo briar]

We still don’t know what book battlecry is for right?

Nor do we have actual iconics for the battlecry classes

[solar storm]

battlecry is the book

[echo briar]

I thought that was a placeholder name

[sinful gyro]

I think it's just called that

[warped orbit]

it is a placeholder AIUI

[sinful gyro]

Fairs

[surreal basin]

wedont know anything about it either way

[solar tendon]

I predict it will be called

secrets of punch

kick archive

fights n brawls

[sinful gyro]

Crybattle

(includes dogs of war)

[solar tendon]

War of battle

[echo briar]

I think it’s called “Bonk”

It will be the first book legally classified as a weapon

[sinful gyro]

What about the lancer rule book

[echo briar]

This is due to the 6 ft chain attached to it, and the sickle on the other end of the chain

Maybe it’s not even for a book

Maybe the devs just got bored

[limber comet]

We are getting a book

I can't remember the source so take this with a huge amount of salt

But I swear at Gencon they mentioned a war between...Taldor and Cheliax happening?

I could be wrong but there is at least one inner sea war that is going to happen

[worthy stump]

i think it was Andoran and Cheliax? but i do remember something similar as well

[limber comet]

I wasn't sure if it was Andoran or Taldor

It was teased during the gencon keynote...somewhere

[scenic patio]

Ohhh exciting

[limber comet]

The WoI stuff is probably the more mythic consequences of Gorum dying while Battlecry is likely the more immediate, worldly consequences

[limber comet]

We'll have to wait and see though

It would be interesting if we got like, war based subsystems

...my personal wishlist is that we get a "port" of horror adventures from 1e

Please please please I need it

Dark Archives kinda counts but not really

Please I want a horror gazetteer of Golarion that isn't just the inner sea

I mean I know we got the Tian Xia guide which has a few horror/horror-adjacent regions but I just

I need it

Wait holy shit we might get like, more siege engines in Battlecry

Just a hunch

But it would line up with G&G remastered coming out

[echo briar]

I hope we get leadership back

and by that I mean humanoid animal companions, not additional PCs as minions

alternatively, the some dude eidolon

[trail nova]

Leadership companions being in a "weak but easy to command" would be a neat space.

[echo briar]

how broken would it be in the some dude eidolon could activate items?

[limber comet]

Summoners+ from Team+ does have a warrior eidolon

[clever cobalt]

Lost Omens: The Dark Tapestry

[limber comet]

Ha, I wish, but there's not enough Paizo original DT members to warrant that

...yet

[clever cobalt]

Fair

I kinda wish we had DT player options personally

like maybe even an Ancestry or Heritage

[limber comet]

Although I moreso meant the diaspora of horror stuff presented in 1e, like gothic and slasher stuff

Oh yeah for sure

[clever cobalt]

Fair fair

[limber comet]

But that's a bit, heh...esoteric for the normal player

Fleshwarps do fit that category nicely, even if they aren't linked in lore

[clever cobalt]

ye

[limber comet]

Mutation and stuff are hallmarks of cosmic horror

Body horror and cosmic horror (usually) go hand in hand

[clever cobalt]

I did have the idea of uhhhhh

A fleshwarp psychic (or examplar) who started off human but grew more inhuman as they levelled up

[limber comet]

I'd personally say psychic (only bc we don't know if exemplar will fit that mold well)

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[limber comet]

Also because I like psychic and don't see it talked about enough

[clever cobalt]

Never played it myself, but I figured it would fit

[limber comet]

Oh I've never played it either I just like psychic :]

[clever cobalt]

Speaking of, a friend is hosting a Nex-based game I sadly cannot join

But I really have been wanting to play a Fleshwarp Fighter (later Exemplar when it comes out) from the Mana Wastes

if only cause heroic monsters interest me

[limber comet]

Whhaaaat

So cool

Nex is super neat

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

Which is sad that I cannot join due to timing

But Nex is a pretty neat setting

(and LO Impossible Lands is probably my favorite LO book)

[limber comet]

I guess the best thing for horror stuff would be a lost omens book huh

[true delta]

Quick question: Does the FOundry module come with everything you need to build a character? Like, can you build one from the ground up and choose options such as free archetype and automatic bonus progression while doing so?

[solar tendon]

yeah

its pretty great for it at this point tbh

[sinful gyro]

It has everything yeah

ABP you'd need to turn on in the options

[clever cobalt]

God my friend is hosting a Nex/Impossible Lands game and I really wanna join

But my idea is a Fleshwarp Exemplar, so I may wait until WoI comes out

[clever cobalt]

Just got automaticallt warned and blocked from posting in the PF2E discord because I tried to post a certain outer God's name

Shub, to be clear

[frank crystal]

Wait why?

[clever cobalt]

The uh, half-slur in Shub's second half of the name

It flagged the first 4 words

thankfully I worked it out with a mod

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[frank crystal]

Oh damn

[surreal basin]

Certainly can’t blame that lol

Have the lovecraft gods like

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s fair tbh

[solar tendon]

usually filters will trigger on the first three letters of that, yeah

[surreal basin]

Ever been mentioned in 2e?

[frank crystal]

It really isn’t helped by people having so many ways to type it without fully typing

[solar storm]

Yeah that's why a lot of people just call her Shubby or something

[solar tendon]

shubby is cute

[frank crystal]

Fitting imo

[limber comet]

In Gods and Magic yeah

Beyond that, I don't think so?

[echo briar]

I can’t tell what god this is referring to

[limber comet]

oh it's the fertility one

dark goat of the woods

[rustic cape]

Given she’s the “black goat of the woods with a thousand young” I suspect that was a deliberate inclusion on Lovecraft’s part

Since he was a schmuck

[trail nova]

On the one hand, there is a latin root, and less strong versions of the n-word show up as normal non-offensive words in other languages. On the other hand, Shubby is definetly a bit racist - she's definetly tapping into proto-Great Replacement fears.

[silver geyser]

I'm gonna say that it's a bit too subtle for Lovecraft. For as much as I enjoy his writing, he deosn't particularly enjoy not spelling out subtext.

She's probably got that incidental background racism that happens more than intent.

[limber comet]

yeahhh

[silver geyser]

Also he would have written about it being intentional in a letter

[solar storm]

I’ve heard it’s a reference/nod to Sheol-Nugganoth a similar weird thing which someone else wrote fairly contemporaneously

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idle_Days_on_the_Yann

[scenic patio]

This is definitely a chicken or the egg situation

[solar thorn]

Man, written adventure paths need more PL-3 and PL-4 hordes attacking the players. After dealing with PL-1 thru PL+2 dudes for so long in Abomination Vaults my players have enjoyed having a chance to dunk on nerds

And Foundry makes it very easy to run hordes of that size. When I get back into writing my own campaigns I'll make sure to add them.

[warped orbit]

Large groups of PL-4 is also throwing a bone to casters especially

Though martials will probably also appreciate just being able to crit things left and right

[rapid wagon]

I think my current party struggles a bit with casters who have blockers

But also I think what yall have mentioned before is coming true in that we get butt beat up every combat

We've had at least one down every combat since the transition over

[rapid wagon]

Which has only been 2 combats mind, but still

Health be going down fast

[solar storm]

Yeah big mood

AV in particular has very few hordes because it’s mostly hallway and closet fights

[solar thorn]

I've seen reccomendations to scale up av by a factor of 2 to help with the claustrophobia. I ultimately didn't do that but I really do notice it.
I suppose its a case of a mega dungeon with a limited number of maps and sheet space.

[warped orbit]

You can feel the page limitations on a lot of the AP maps

[solar storm]

I think it’s ok being claustrophobic

It’s an underground dungeon

But it is distorting

Just in a way I think is ok

[echo briar]

I kinda feel like it may be better if the maps where like not part of the book, but where a free PDF so they had more room

It’s not like you can physically use them in the book

You still need to make them yourself or print them from the PDF

[surreal basin]

I know the foundry module guys sometimes make maps bigger

[warped orbit]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6wmp0?War-of-Immortals-Old-Friends-and-New-Faces

blogpost giving a few details on the upcoming class archetypes

Avenger, Bloodrager, and Vindicator are in this one

Bloodrager gains spellcasting, and spells gained from the archetype have the Rage trait

[rustic cape]

Vindicator is a good replacement name

Like, really good

Hats off

[warped orbit]

Avenger is a special Racket, and replaces Surprise Attack with a special new action (gonna assume it lets you choose an enemy to mark or something), and they can Sneak Attack with their god's favored weapon

[solar tendon]

does bloodrager eat your instinct?

oh avenger is rogue?

[warped orbit]

yeah

[solar tendon]

though it was ranger for some reason

[warped orbit]

Vindicator (the replacement for Inquisitor) is Ranger

[solar tendon]

ohhhhh

right okay

[warped orbit]

it doesn't specify, so unclear

[solar tendon]

nah it does

'must choose bloodrager instinct'

[rustic cape]

However it looks rad

[warped orbit]

oh wait it did say, mb
must have missed it

[rustic cape]

Adding rage damage to spells is cool

[warped orbit]

Vindicator also gets a special Edge

so similarly exclusive

[rustic cape]

These all look pretty cool

Avenger finally lets you greatsword rogue, I suppose

[warped orbit]

with certain deities, yeah

wonder what the standout choices there are

also just gonna repost the art

[surreal basin]

Slightly less choices for great sword than previous

:p

[rustic cape]

True!

[warped orbit]

oh I just realized
since Vindicator treats their favored weapon as martial, it's a great way to go into Red Mantis Assassin

[rustic cape]

Oh sick

[solar tendon]

makes sense!

vinidicator is also it's own edge, and avenger it's own racket

vindicator seems to get a focus point enhanced hunt prey?

[warped orbit]

they get a mark focus spell, yeah

finally, Hunter's Mark in PF2

[solar tendon]

oh sharing sanctification is a cool benefit

[echo briar]

as far as we know, the only caster class architype in the book makes it less of a caster right?

[warped orbit]

that's the assumption for the Cleric one, yeah

[echo briar]

I feel like "divine caster that becomes even more of a divine caster" would be fitting, or "non divine caster becoming divine"

[warped orbit]

I think the only thing we know for sure is they lose Font

[solar tendon]

oh Hunt Prey is the name of the ranger's mark ability

[echo briar]

How do you think rouges using greatswords will work with the avenger architype?

[solar tendon]

ooh vindicator gets domain spells, calistra inqusitor winnn

[echo briar]

will it make ruffian even sadder with their 1d6 martial limit?

[solar tendon]

idk

it might not get strength key ability

[echo briar]

That feel terrible for 70% of deities

[novel merlin]

Depends on if avenger gets medium armor too

[limber comet]

Oh wow, Imrijka in blue

I love it

[echo briar]

That fits in with "that would feel terrible for 70% of deities"

[limber comet]

Crowe being replaced is a bit sad, wasn't he like, the only Shoanti rep?

[echo briar]

Playtest exemplar had the same problem, and I really hope they fixed it

[warped orbit]

I do hope Exemplar either gets medium or some special unarmoured

Or both really

[clever cobalt]

Same

[echo briar]

I hope it gets heavy armor, even if it takes investment

[novel merlin]

Ruffians doesn't get heavy, I don't see any other rogue getting it

[limber comet]

Would King Arthur even fall into the category of Exemplar?

[echo briar]

I'm talking about exemplar with my last comment

[novel merlin]

Ahhhh

[warped orbit]

Definitely could be

[limber comet]

I definitely think that there'll be more options for Exemplar armor

Or at least options to make it so what you have is better

[echo briar]

light only with a STR key stat was not fun

I feel like medium armor should not need investment

[turbid dagger]

Not sure about bloodragers getting an actual literal focus on blood but hey, will wait for the full thing

[ocean cobalt]

she is known as a vindicator; only vindicators of evil deities are called inquisitors.*
Paizo’s move away from the term “inquisitor” is a deliberate choice due to the term’s negative historical connotations.
why did you keep it in at all then

[ocean cobalt]

baller imo

bloodrager was one of those classes that just didnt have an actual flavor identity it was just "yeah but what if we 4e hybrid'ed barbarian and sorcerer"

[turbid dagger]

You excluded the follow up sentence which IMO does explain that
Our intent is to provide our players with a more heroic title for a class mechanic that we know appeals to a large portion of our audience.
'Inquistor' has negative connotations, so evil inquistors can still be called that
But they wanted a more heroic name for good ones

[ocean cobalt]

that still kinda sucks

[limber comet]

I would personally not want a Norgoborite Ranger to be called a Vindicator lmfao

[ocean cobalt]

"hey here are some lamashtu goons doin their lamashtu thing. you can either beat them up or talk to them and if you talk to them it turns out theyre very sympathetic or w/e. btw its implied that these dudes do pogroms"

[true delta]

The third one's hat reminds me of Vampire Hunter D.

[solar tendon]

wait a sec

[ocean cobalt]

like do we gotta

[solar tendon]

Evil isn't a thing anymore

[limber comet]

Wdym

Like, alignment wise?

[solar tendon]

like as a discrete category yeah

[ocean cobalt]

like, capital E

[limber comet]

Yeah, but evil still exists

Gestures at Asmodeus

[ocean cobalt]

idk i guess its kind of a nonissue wrt npcs because npcs arent usually called out as having classes but actually if its specifically for pcs that makes it way worse

[ocean cobalt]

"btw its implied that you do pogroms"

[solar tendon]

mostly my point is there isn't a defined category of deities that are evil anymore

like there's isn't an element of their statblock where it says inqusitior or vidincator or neutralisor or whatever

[ocean cobalt]

well we kinda dont know that right, champion got rid of the strict alignment reqs but like the names are still there iirc

[solar tendon]

no alignment is Gone gone

[ocean cobalt]

no yeah thats what i mean

[solar tendon]

like the new statblock just says sanctification if applicable

oh right I see what you mean

[ocean cobalt]

but like theyre still called paladins/liberators/etc

[solar tendon]

I think the difference is the mechanical option is called a vindicator no matter what

while paladin/liberator etc are different subclasses

[ocean cobalt]

it's stated that some are called "inquisitors" tho, like

[solar tendon]

it says vindicators of evil deities

I mean you are correct that the term is still gonna refer to groups in the setting yeah

[ocean cobalt]

if it refers to groups in the setting then like cool, whatever, that's a thing you can have

but like i dunno

whatever, only way to find out is to look at the book

[solar tendon]

mm

[ocean cobalt]

tangentially i do love that they didnt change imrijkas outfit at all

[surreal basin]

look drip is drip

[ocean cobalt]

(well besides the autobalancing)

[ocean cobalt]

yeah

like perfect design honestly, no notes

[surreal basin]

honestly i get they changed the color to not literally be the spanish inquisition but

even if they hadnt id be like "they can have this one"

"the outfit balls too hard"

[limber comet]

Can you believe that Imrijka and Valeros are like, getting freaky

[ocean cobalt]

yes, easily

[surreal basin]

yeah probably

[limber comet]

I mean it's canon that they both wanna settle down with each other and have kids

[echo briar]

How long does the beginners box adventure last?

I've heard conflicting reports on its oneshotness

[solar tendon]

um

with character creation I feel like we did the first floor of two in a session

you could probably rush through it in one on foundry but if you're teaching ppl take it as it goes I think

[warped orbit]

2-3 sessions is what I'd say probably

[rustic cape]

We haven’t heard anything new about animist since Reveler In Lost Glee, right?

The playtest version is easily my favorite class >_>

[limber comet]

Not particularly

It is confirmed there is a dungeon spirit

[rustic cape]

Oh shiiiiiii

Want

I feel like I heard Sustaining Dance is becoming a basic class feature somewhere?

[limber comet]

That might be in the the playtest review blogpost but idk

[rustic cape]

Gotcha

Optimizing leap w/sustaining dance amuses me

[limber comet]

Also unrelated but it seems like every WoI class archetype is for a martial

Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue, and Ranger are the ones we know about

Which means there's one we don't

(Also just for posterity, both Battle Harbinger and Palatine Detective are in Divine Mysteries, NOT WoI)

[warped orbit]

Sustaining Dance is pretty cool

[rustic cape]

I love it

Also Howl of the Wild gives us Spry Sinews

[warped orbit]

it's not even that hard to basically get a Stride out of it

30 ft speed and Powerful Leap already makes it 20, which is pretty good

[echo briar]

There's a cleric one... that turns it into a martial

[limber comet]

Nope! That's Battle Harbinger, that's Divine Mysteries

The two martials left that aren't getting an archetype in WoI or Divine Mysteries are Monk and Swashbuckler

[clever cobalt]

What's the one for Fighter again? Achilles-esque "immortal"?

Who also might be spear/polearm focused

[limber comet]

Yep

[rustic cape]

You can get to 35 feet

[clever cobalt]

I may swap my dual class in the game I'm in from Fighter/Barbarian to Fighter/Exemplar

But we'll see

[rustic cape]

Greater Spry Sinews, Boots of Bounding, Powerful Leap, 30 speed

[clever cobalt]

Especially since I do a massive amount of damage already and I like that

[rustic cape]

Which means you actually leap faster than you walk

[clever cobalt]

Also do we know anything about the Fighter Archetype beyond "achilles"?

[echo briar]

Not really

[clever cobalt]

fair

I'm just thinking about my Fleshwarp Exemplar character as well

Because uh

I really wanna play them :v

[echo briar]

Like, it probably uses weapons, but thats kinda obvious

[limber comet]

You can build up your "doom" and unleash it on your enemies

Whatever that means

[clever cobalt]

ideal Fleshwarp Exemplar

[echo briar]

The other WotI archetype is the Seneschal. What class could it be for?

[clever cobalt]

Hmm

[echo briar]

Like, its a steward in charge of a nobleman's estate. That is like the least adventure thing you could be

[clever cobalt]

I wanna say Champion or Thaumaturge

but I dunno about either

[echo briar]

I have a feeling its a caster, just so the architypes aren't all martials

It would be funny if it was an animist architype

[solar tendon]

it could be bard

if it's a caster

[clever cobalt]

Bard makes some sense

[upbeat ridge]

Yooooo goddamn

Hell yeah

[clever cobalt]

Thanks! They're my OC, artist is Guttertongue

[limber comet]

What's the source? /gen

[echo briar]

gencon

[limber comet]

Oh!

[ocean cobalt]

druid might be neat

[trail nova]

Investigator is my instinct.

[echo briar]

Their getting one in the next book

It would be kinda weird for them to be getting two back to back

Also what do investigators have to do with managing an estate?

[trail nova]

IDK, but Pazio’s done it before: https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Investigator Majordomo

[warped orbit]

I can kinda see it

[echo briar]

Based solely on the book that its in, I feel like its going to be a keeper of a deities property.

[clever cobalt]

Cleric makes sense in that context

or Oracle

[echo briar]

Druid works, tasked by some nature god to keep an area pure

wait, apparently it was also the second in command of the knights templar

and in southern France, it was another name for a bailiff

maybe champion with these last two definitions?

[limber comet]

Champion is definitely a possibility

[charred surge]

hay hi halo

can dis affect me?

also im a summoner, does this affect me and my eidolon?

[echo briar]

Yes, but only if it targets one of you

[echo briar]

According to Michael Sayre, exemplar is currently the most popular class for new characters (with the data they can get at least)

which is impressive for a class currently in playtest

also according to that same data, thaumaturge is the least popular class

[warped orbit]

that's surprising to me

[thorny berry]

exemplar is eyebrow raising (and feeds into my fears about the class's ~flavor~ being a bit too juiced but that's been discussed to death)

thaumaturge though is honestly shocking I would have figured it for one of the most popular

[warped orbit]

yeah I would have expected Thaum to be a lot higher

[ocean cobalt]

i wonder how much the thematics of thaumaturge (and esoteric lore, etc) being cha-based instead of int- or wis-based leads to it, i know ive heard people say they feel like its a tonal clash w the whole "knower of everything, monster hunter lore nerd" shtick

which like, it is, but i like playing characters who are full of shit so that is the appeal to me

[ocean cobalt]

i do also wonder how much of this is "exemplars have a strong enough and broad enough appeal that tons of people feel like making them, even in playtest" and how much is "people are (or were, at the time of data collection) submitting more exemplar anecdotes than any other class to paizo by virtue of them being in a playtest document"

put another way people might be more likely to talk to the people who make the game about the class that's (perceived as) currently in flux and open to change than classes that are a couple years old

also, imo, the flavor on exemplar lends itself to a lot of characters because of how flexible it is moreso than because of how show-stealing it is

loudly and diegetically talking about how much of a main character you are is for a) characters who set impossible expectations for the other characters to get the spotlight in their reactions to and b) jobbers

[turbid dagger]

I honestly really love it cuz it means I can make a character that is both well spoken and smart
Charming professor type

[limber comet]

I'm really excited to see the new stuff for Exemplar

Also most classes can become some sort of demigod

[limber comet]

ALSO

Valeros is canonically dyslexic

:]

[true delta]

I believe it referred to a military rank at some point.

[rustic cape]

I think there are two things at play with Thaum:
(a) it doesn't get Str/Dex as its key stat boost, and people obsess over this to an unreasonable degree, declaring it a worthless class (they are stupid)
(b) it's more complicated than your typical martial, and it looks even more complicated than it actually is

[solar tendon]

honestly thaum is kinda stacked

[rustic cape]

It’s fantastic

Thaum takes the fantasy of being a do-anything item-based monster hunter and makes it accessible within a greatly simplified chassis

But this means it can do anything

[echo briar]

It seems to be how many sheets are being made, not how many people are sending them in

Also the reason they said for the thaumaturge being the least popular is that its name doesn’t tell you anything

We are all people that know a lot about pathfinder. We are in the top 5% at least

[clever cobalt]

Insert meme about experts

[eager mountain]

https://bsky.app/profile/erenahn.bsky.social/post/3l23ylqovdt2j

[echo briar]

Oh, something I forgot overnight: the other main reason he said was the iconic doesn't tell you anything

Its a bulky guy with stuff, new players don't get something to hook onto

[echo briar]

So, I just did an experiment on how well you can read each class based on its Iconics. People thought the thaumaturge was a tank

Exemplar on the other hand was mostly right gameplay wise

people also couldn't tell if the thaum was a cleric or not

[rustic cape]

Thaumaturge is a visual archetype that’s extremely 3.5 D&D coded

So like, if you know that archetype, it’s pretty obvious what you’re looking at

Otherwise it’s less comprehensible

It’s also kinda a visual archetype Reynolds codified

So Many Pouches

[clever cobalt]

it is extremely Reynolds yeah

Perhaps the most Reynolds of all time

[rustic cape]

For sure

“Hey Wayne we need you to draw an iconic for a class that is explicitly how you’ve been drawing almost every other character for decades”

[limber comet]

Mios slander in chat

Can't believe it

[limber comet]

https://x.com/paizo/status/1833552274867528073?t=FCv00guTfpVo-pRpV8ZBxQ&s=19

Paizo (@paizo) on X

Thank you to everyone who's contributed to the Starfinder Second Edition Playtest so far! We wanted to let you know we've made some rules and errata updates to clarify designer intent!
https://t.co/rTDzD3TmPl

Twitter · Sep 10, 2024, 5:05 PM

Some errata here

[warped orbit]

Operative: The ghost operative’s exploit applies to targets you are undetected by. Note that if you are unnoticed you’re also undetected.
wait what???

[echo briar]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6w46b?Starfinder-Playtest-Errata-Wave-2 Direct link

[warped orbit]

RIP Seeker Rifle

The seeker rifle is in the sniper group, has volley (60 feet), and has a magazine size of 1 projectile

[sinful gyro]

Ah this was a big issue I had

[warped orbit]

yeah but that's kinda a huge thing to just drop offhandedly, because I don't think that was the case previously

[sinful gyro]

Soldier: Whirling swipe and offensive defense also get follow-up Strikes using Primary Target.

Holy shit yes

Yessss

[warped orbit]

unnoticed and undetected were not at all the same

[sinful gyro]

Melee Soldier is back baby

[warped orbit]

which like, if that was the idea good for Assassin I guess

[sinful gyro]

Ye I know, they probably should just change the wording

[rustic cape]

Nice!

[warped orbit]

Magnetar rifles can hold 20 bullets per magazine
@turbid dagger
Magnetar Rifle buff errata

[sinful gyro]

Ammunition: 1 credit now gets you 10 pieces of projectile ammunition.
Yooooo

Suppressed: Suppressed gives a 10-foot Speed penalty.
Yoooooooooo

I so want to play melee soldier now

[echo briar]

Still better damage than the martial snipers

[warped orbit]

wonder what the weapon of choice for Operative will be now, if you don't want to reload every shot

maybe laser rifle?

[echo briar]

It's not even close with hair trigger

[turbid dagger]

IM GONNA CRY
yeah!!!!!!!

[warped orbit]

yeah but having to reload every shot is still way worse
I think the laser rifle may be more appealing now, you just go down one die step for having an actual magazine

also the Seeker Rifle still has Reload 2, which is actually an issue now

[echo briar]

crap, I forgot about that

I still feel like SF2 guns are weaker than bows

[warped orbit]

weaker than bows, yeah probably

[echo briar]

The melee weapons are all over the place

[clever cobalt]

SF2e guns are worse then PF2e guns imo

[warped orbit]

that I would definitely disagree with

[surreal basin]

theyre different

not better

pf2e guns.... uh, kinda suck if you aren't critting a lot

[echo briar]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UIRnJPU-GMk

[rustic cape]

Hmmmmmmm

I have mixed feelings about Ossian going back to their NWN days, BUT

[limber comet]

Hopefully remaster g&g buffs them a lil bit

[thorny berry]

boy, I

know it isn't exactly fair at all compare it to wrath of the righteous given the vastly different scale of the studios involved

but the comparison is hard to avoid and isn't flattering

not crazy about the plastic toy look

[sinful gyro]

I imagine this is designed to be more of a TTRPG simulator

Than a CRPG

[thorny berry]

oh I mean if they actually are going full NWN with it that's a pretty different prospect

[sinful gyro]

NWN?

Oh never winter nights?

[thorny berry]

ye

I mean still not crazy about the visuals frankly but hey

[limber comet]

Yeahhh

The style isn't doin much for me

[surreal basin]

oh btw

i'm gonna do cosmic birthday here soon

[sinful gyro]

Nice

Looking for players or?

[surreal basin]

oh sorry no

I didn't mean here as in on the server

I see how that was misleading

I was just noting that I'm gonna be playing it

[sinful gyro]

No worries 😛

I've ran it several times now if you want any advise

[surreal basin]

I've already done the glass one and it came from the vast

nope! I prefer to go in blindish

[turbid dagger]

Honestly, it could be PNGs sliding around on a grid and so long as it was a comprehensive representation of PF2e's ruleset I'd be all over it
See: Dawnsbury Days
Which is a not-very-comprehensive representation of PF2e' ruleset that uses PNGs sliding around on a grid
Which I still really liked a lot

[sinful gyro]

Chapter 2 is very fun

[keen raptor]

This is where I am tbh. I just want a video game that uses the 2e rules since I vastly prefer it over 1e.

[limber comet]

I would want a pf2e crpg but like,

I dunno

I feel like there's a lot of room to botch it

[surreal basin]

I feel like it’s hard to adapt to a “real” crpg

[limber comet]

It's because of all the player choices you have to make imo

[sinful gyro]

I mean they did it for pf1e

Which I'd argue has that problem but more

[limber comet]

Also! Just ordered my copy of WoI from Paizo.com

Pre-ordered, anyways

[solar thorn]

The owlcat games do a fantastic job of letting make character choices and then promptly have to use All the Bullshit™️ to challenge anyone doing the slightest bit of optimization

[warped orbit]

you can always turn down the difficulty

[echo briar]

Honestly, my thoughts on the game are going to be determined entirely by scope

If they use the lack of animations to make a very expansive game for indie costs thats fine

[fast hill]

I made a silly misclick... pathfinder forum and warhammer forum are right next to each other...

[solar thorn]

Yeah I'm not saying the owlcat games are bad, I enjoyed my time with WoTR
But boy I would not want to ironman them

[surreal basin]

Yeah

They’re uh

WOTR is mean in a way that I’m not a huge fan of

[warped orbit]

they are designed with the fact that you can reload I think

since obviously a TPK in a CRPG and then you reload
or a TPK in the tabletop, and now you have a problem
is not the same

[rustic cape]

I really enjoyed WotR but it is the full 3.P experience and that means “fuck you” is in everyone’s vocabulary by higher levels

[echo briar]

I also think a large part of the problem was PF1

the difference between optimized and non optimized builds are huge

[warped orbit]

also tbh, I did auto leveled companions and a very jank build for my MC, on my first Wrath playthrough
and I was still fine on normal for basically the whole game
so I feel like it's fine

[rustic cape]

And yeah I really like this tbh

Normal also nerfs enemy stats iirc

[surreal basin]

(I just hate spell resistance as a mechanic fuck spell resistance)

[rustic cape]

But that’s like

[warped orbit]

it does somewhat, yes

[rustic cape]

That’s fine

[warped orbit]

the "unmodified" experience is technically Core

but I'd say Core is already a challenge mode

[rustic cape]

It’s a video game, if normal needs to be “assuming no charop” that’s fine

[surreal basin]

My problem with CORE is that I wanna play as close to the tabletop as possible which like

Includes I don’t want owlcats insane defensive additions to every statblock

Like every single enemy having massive DR and SR

grumbles

[rustic cape]

I played on core and did a bunch of charop and had fun

[warped orbit]

yeah if you play Core, you do really need to optimize

but if you do, I think it's mostly fine

[rustic cape]

It is wild how a lucky Horrid Wilting can still fuck you at level 19

But that’s 3.P

[turbid dagger]

Yeah the problem is that when you play core
YOU are PF1e compliant
The encounters and enemies are not designed as such

[novel merlin]

Even in actual tabletop 1e, basically any high level enemy has SR

[warped orbit]

it's also because it's all fucking demons in Wrath
who naturally all have SR

[turbid dagger]

I find it funny that they had to split demons up into like 4 categories for WOTR
So rangers can't just take 'demons'

[frank crystal]

What did they split them into?

[turbid dagger]

I forget all the categories but it was like
'demons of wrath'
'demons of trickery'
etc

[frank crystal]

Ohhhh

[solar thorn]

I think another big thing is the difficulty spikes
I did azata and the final fight against ||ya big boi Mephistophles|| can go suck nuts but after I defeated him I walked through everyone else on normal

Or the now notorious Black Water Dungeon (and Leper's Smile on Core+)

[surreal basin]

It’s way worse than in the tabletop but fair

[frank crystal]

Honestly I mostly bounced off of WOTR because of PF1E mechanics combined with it’s difficulty

I stopped around the keep at the end of act 1 because I never felt like I understood the mechanics and ran into a brick wall

[echo briar]

Rune lord is coming in a non SoM book. What else from SoM do you think is getting remastered?

[rustic cape]

Have they confirmed that Magus is getting a touch up?

[echo briar]

no

[rustic cape]

I’d like a magus touchup

[crude socket]

NWN mentioned?! 👀

What did Ossian do in NWN?

They make NWN2 modules?

[rustic cape]

They got their start in NWN modules

Darkness Over Daggerford

[clever cobalt]

It's coming in the magic school book right?

[warped orbit]

I believe so, yeah

[crude socket]

ah, neat

I don't know anything about these guys, but there are a bunch of very good nwn modules out there

[rustic cape]

Indeed

They also did Mysteries of Westgate for NWN2

[rapid wagon]

What class do you think would be well suited to playing out a warhammer inspired Dwarven runelord. More concerned with catching the vibes than specific lore.

For the short version, rather than wizards, they use magical runes to create magical effects, often using an anvil to "strike" the runes

Have a friend who wants to prepare one as an alt class

[scenic patio]

Thamaturge easy 😅

[warped orbit]

Thaum would be my first though, yeah

[rapid wagon]

Ok cool!

I'll take a peak

[rapid wagon]

Hmm

The thaum seems more like a direct damager rather than a Enhancement/debuff/ anti magic Caster

[warped orbit]

For that sort of thing you might have to just play a caster and reflavor

[rapid wagon]

Yeah...

I guess a lot depends on the role they want to take on

Hmm well in the case of a reflavored Caster, any best fit?

[warped orbit]

For being supportive, Cleric or Bard

Bard also has access to good debuffs if you want to lean towards that

And they also have a lot of their power in their special cantrips

[rustic cape]

Bard debuffing is good

[echo briar]

Has anyone used live wire RAW?

does it actually matter?

[warped orbit]

It's stronger than other cantrips definitely
But it's also a spell attack

[echo briar]

a spell attack that deals half damage on a miss

[warped orbit]

Right I forgot about that part lmao

Yeah it's probably the best cantrip now

[echo briar]

but is it too good, or just good?

[warped orbit]

I don't think Live Wire being very strong moves the needle on casters that much personally

Buff to Magus I guess

[echo briar]

yea, they don't need a psychic dedication as much

[warped orbit]

I'm mostly curious on if it actually is gonna get errata, or if this was an intentional push from Paizo

[surreal basin]

It’s absolutely gonna get errata to be a save spell

Imo

It’s heighten entry is also definitely wrong

It should be +2

[warped orbit]

I honestly think more spell attacks should do half on miss

And I also conversely think if Live Wire goes to +2 heighten, it makes it not worth picking in most cases again

+2 heighten on cantrips just sucks in general

[surreal basin]

Even with the half on miss? On a hit it does more damage than any other cantrip at higher levels lol

It’s also two dice every two ranks

[warped orbit]

Not if it goes to +2

[surreal basin]

With adjust scaling

[warped orbit]

It'd be better than TKP, but worse than saves still

[surreal basin]

As it stands you get 2 additional damage dice every rank which not even ignition gets

[light gyro]

my 15th level wizard player prepared max level dessicate to go into the cathedral they knew was full of undead.

[surreal basin]

You can’t just make a cantrip that’s full stop better than every other attack cantrip lmao

Why would you ever take TKP or ignition if live wire exists and stays with its scaling and on miss effect

Even if attack cantrips need a buff there’s no way the intent was to keep every other one the same and just make one that’s way better

[warped orbit]

Who knows

But the fact it already didn't get errata once, and that we have AFAIK gotten no comment on Live Wire so far, makes me think it's possible it's intended

[surreal basin]

I’m not happy with the power creep if that’s the case lol

A 20d4 cantrip is ridiculous

[warped orbit]

I don't think it is personally

[surreal basin]

Why not

[warped orbit]

And like I said, I'm not convinced Live Wire is meaningfully moving the needle in terms of caster strength

[surreal basin]

Yeah I’m just curious why you don’t think that when it’s a 9 dice increase over other options

With a half on failure

[warped orbit]

Would you think 10d8 is also ridiculous?

[surreal basin]

On a cantrip with range, a crit success rider, and half on fail, absolutely

20d4 is also better than 10d8
Idk it just seems to be too good to be a cantrip

If it was a leveled spell than maybe lol

[warped orbit]

Cantrips also fall off a lot though as you go up in level

[surreal basin]

I think that’s mostly by design

Since you have more actual spell slots

Idk I just think it’s pretty clearly a typo on the heightening. Regardless of your opinion on cantrips, it is absolutely out of the expected math for it to heighten like this
And paizo doesn’t fuck with the scaling math that often

I agree that it doesn’t really move the needle on casters as a whole though but that’s more because it’s like

It’s one spell

[warped orbit]

Either way, I would just prefer they put out a statement on it

So we know what to expect

[wooden orbit]

Anyone here played Curse of the Crimson Throne using PF2E, or played the Quest for the Frozen Flame AP for 2E?

[surreal basin]

Absolutely yeah

[wooden orbit]

Trying to figure out if I should try to join this curse table, or Frozen flame (both are p2p unfortunately but only $10 per session for one, or $15 per session for the other)
Would be far more interested in Sky King’s Tomb, Season of Ghosts, Strength of Thousands, Blood Lords, or the recent one but can’t find any table for those on the days I’m available

[limber comet]

Curse is pretty fun (from what I've read) but runs pretty long

Frozen Flame is. Particular in theme, and is shorter, but still fun

[light gyro]

criticaliest hit

[solar tendon]

niceee

triple crit

[surreal basin]

Just kill them

That’s gotta be like

A -3 or 4 enemy right

For a +9 to be a crit

[light gyro]

they very died, yes

cr 11 vs cr 15, horde encounter from an AP

[worthy stump]

i had fun with CoCT when i played through it some years back, although that was in PF1. definitely... shows its age as an AP, both in terms of story content and encounters, since it was written for 3.5e and then fully ported over to PF later

[surreal basin]

Ohhhhh yeah that’s um

[worthy stump]

definitely has a lot of the old 'edgy cool kid paizo' energy

[surreal basin]

Okay yeah then I would caution that tonally it’s gonna be

VERY different from modern Paizo

[keen raptor]

[light gyro]

strength of thousands book 5 spoiler ||the freaky man appears||

[keen raptor]

||Looks like something right out of Silent Hill||