Pathfinder

[sinful gyro]

I'd think that's leaning too close to a mech

Which should be its own system

[echo briar]

Size 1/2 mechs exist

Starfinder caliban

[clever cobalt]

Still thinking about my dual class

Not sure if I wanna go Barb/Fighter or Thaum/Fighter

[limber comet]

Got my mitts on the Tian Xia character guide

[echo briar]

I heard there was a firebreather architype, but can't find anything about it. Is there one in the book or did I make that up?

[limber comet]

Uhhh

I gotta check

[limber comet]

There's a five-breath archetype

But it's about elemental martial arts

[echo briar]

oh, that makes sense

[limber comet]

I really like the yaksha and yaoguai ancestries

Ohhhhhh there's little blurbs on some martial arts philosophies

So cool

[limber comet]

Chat

I have a strong opinion

Irori should be a dwarf

[rustic cape]

Barb/fighter is probably the single hardest-hitting character imaginable, but is gonna be a bit pigeonholed

[clever cobalt]

yeah, fair

[warped orbit]

especially with the Barb buffs now, I think Fighter/Barb is probably one of the strongest martials in the game

[trail nova]

I kind of want to try and build a Soldier/Operative in SF

[warped orbit]

and the Fighter metastrikes still give you a lot of utility

[rapid wagon]

metastrikes?

[warped orbit]

like 2h Fighter with Ligneous is ruinous levels of damage

[warped orbit]

it's a general term for all those feats that have you make a Strike with some kind of rider or other upside

ie Slam Down, Intimidating Strike, Lunge, etc

[rapid wagon]

ahh ok

[warped orbit]

trying to think of a way to do this on Minotaur and still use a Spirit Thresher

could go Mauler I guess?

[rustic cape]

Legendary In Goddamn Everything

[rustic cape]

Or Double Slice fighter

[trail nova]

Yeah, it's pretty hillarious. Also just "Dex+Con, get to ignore str, get great mobility to line up automatic fire cones, get great survivalbility to just wade in with Operative tools

[warped orbit]

the Double Slice build is a bit higher damage probably, yeah
I generally prefer 2h a bit because it's more flexible

and because Knockdown/Slam Down is so good

[rapid wagon]

fighters will generally be your better candidate for dual wielding right?

i feel like in other cases, classes generally dont have alot of class feats to support it

[warped orbit]

Flurry Ranger leans towards dual wielding

Rogue has some stuff for it I think

[rapid wagon]

ah neat, are there monks inclided towards it too? With like butterfly swords or something

[warped orbit]

in general, anyone can also take the Dual Weapon Warrior archetype

[rapid wagon]

i know rangers have generally kind of been seen as a dual wielding class for a long time, prolly since drizzt

[warped orbit]

Monk doesn't as much IIRC
weapon Monk in general is a little odd

[warped orbit]

Drizzt is what codified Rangers as dual wielding, yeah

and Drow alongside it

and also that Rangers have animal companions

[rapid wagon]

hmm maybe one could pull it off with weapon monk plus dual weapon warrior a lil; not that i plan on playing it

but that might be the avenue

to be a monk with butterfly knives or hook swords or whatever

any of hte traditional monk paired weapons

[rustic cape]

And dual weapon warrior no longer has a dead feat at 4th for most builds

Quick draw’s not amazing but it’s something

[rapid wagon]

dual weapon weapon monk with butterfly swords, and twin parry actually seems like it might have legs

certainly not optimal

but seems like it could definitely work

probably want flensing strike to augment the not huge damage of the swords

i ended up here https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=855488

[clever cobalt]

My character is, thankfully, a Kholo

So they can get a Thresher

[rustic cape]

Too bad there are no 1-handed auto weapons

Or you could make this completely stupid

[ocean cobalt]

machine pistol when

[rustic cape]

It’s probably a deliberate exclusion to push soldiers towards 2 handed weapons

The small number of classes in SF2e means equipment can be very much designed with specific classes in mind

[rapid wagon]

Well, small number for now, no? Do we know if mechanic, nanocyte, precog, evolutionist, or biohacker in the full release?

[limber comet]

Precog no longer exists as it did in 1e

It's now a part of witchwarper

Mechanic and Technomancer are coming in the first non-core supplement

Biohacker, Vanguard, Nanocyte, and Evolutionist are maybe coming in future books

[fossil temple]

I was about to ask that here haha
If Starfinder would have an 'sci-fi' inventor or something

[limber comet]

Yes, 2025 gencon playtest will feature it

In 1e it was almost like an animal companion ranger

At least if you took drone focus

[echo briar]

SF1, as of now, has 13 classes. PF2, on day 1, had 12

SF2, on day 1, will have 6

I feel like SF2 will continue SF1s legacy and have much less classes than pathfinder

[fossil temple]

I see , because i was thinking which class would be better to be a Necron Cryptek, and inventor would feel tacky in starfinder 2e i feel

[fossil temple]

I prefer if they go that route tbh
Sometimes is better to give existing classes more tools than to bloat with more classes
TF2 vs Overwatch, i feel.

[echo briar]

Well, I think part of it is SF1 just way less books than PF1

[clever cobalt]

PF1 has a lot of books

[limber comet]

Tbf the classes in pf2e are far more cross compatible with sf2e than pf1e with sf1e

[echo briar]

I think PF2, a system halfway through development, has more books than SF1

[worthy stump]

SF1 was always Paizo's side deal at best, yeah 😔

[echo briar]

It was never meant to get expansionsn at all

it was intended as a one and done thing. It just got way more popular than they expected

[surreal basin]

Yeah

It’s part of why I think the reaction from the people mad at the move to SF2e is kinda funny lol

[echo briar]

Why do you think abadar let the massive gp to credits inflation happen?

[silver geyser]

It is his portfolio.

Also gold is everywhere in space.

[rapid wagon]

sf was pretty fun imo, i enjoyed its sort of everything-and-the-kitchen-sink scifi/fantasyt

so i was stoked about sf2

[solar storm]

Is it actually inflation or are prices just indexed differently?

[limber comet]

I have no idea honestly

Also considering the long lifespan that 2e seems to have, I'm really hopeful we'll start seeing new sf2e classes sooner as opposed to later

[heavy fulcrum]

compared to PF1, its broadly similar, though it does go higher overall

its really funny when you compare it to PF2 values though because of how dramatically they changed prices

WBL across the three games with SF:XX ratios (PF1 doesnt have an official level 1 WBL) https://i.imgur.com/KUHQvaG.png

it makes SF prices look insane but theyre actually just normal PF1 magic item prices for the most part

and the inflation at the higher end is just because everything is magic items and youve got shit like spaceships to consider

[dapper tusk]

i remember the first time i played Starbound, I found a big asteroid made of gold. I spent like ten minutes mining it all and I was so excited to be filthy rich when I took it back to town. But then it was nearly worthless and I remembered gold is only really rare on earth.

[heavy fulcrum]

those damned worthless shiny rocks

[limber comet]

Gold is really only rare on Earth/Earth analogous planets

But

Dwarves love it anyways

[eager mountain]

mechanic and technomancer yes.

the rest will probably be further in the future

[upbeat ridge]

Do we have any pictures of what the new weapons from the tian xia character guide?

[rapid wagon]

considering how you can sort of play a lot of the basic 2e classes in sf pretty readily, there's plenty of variety as is

[eager mountain]

mechanic and technomancer are hitting playtest before full release I think, but thier books arent coming out till like 2026 possibly

so thier atleast gonna be playable in playtest form by release

we are also getting 1 more rulebook before release

galaxy guide

which will have a few ancestries and various stuff for the setting in it

i think 6 ancestrties, but i cant remember

i know astrazoan and dragonkin , and Kalos ?

Kalo are fish people

oh and Void elves, but im not sure thier an ancestry

Void elves are a replacement for drow

[rapid wagon]

i knew the dragonkin would be making a return

astrazoan seem wild

in a good way

[eager mountain]

yeah astrazoan are cool, glad thier getting a makeover

uhhhhh other thant that idk what the other 3 ancestries will be

[rapid wagon]

my buddy is hoping for uplifted animal because he was playing one in an aborted sf campaign

can a pf race be ported over for normal play?

all the right interactions rules wise exist right?

like playing a dwarf or elf or what have you in sf2 will be fine?

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/ryan-gosling-critics-choice-awards-side-eye-confused-clapping-gif-14741917063569043913

[eager mountain]

yeah dude.

it uses the p2e rules as a base, all the ancestries for p2e are available

albiet they dont have as many options that fully interact with starfinder

the ancestries work the same way , they just might not fulllllly fit

for example, no space themed/scifi themed stuff.

[rapid wagon]

for transparency, he was a bear mystic name beric the cleric

[eager mountain]

OHHHHH you mean your hoping for uplifted bear

i supose you can just do that with awakened animal currently

but idk when or if awakened bear will be coming back since awakened animal exists

but who knows

hoping for some starfinder themed p2e ancestry heritages and options tho

really wanna play my gnome

can do that till technomancer tho

hoping technomancer will be cool

[rapid wagon]

Yeah I think he could just use uplifted animal

And say they are a bear

[eager mountain]

thats what I said ?

[rapid wagon]

Yeah I was agreeing with you

[frank crystal]

Wait there’s dragonkin as a full ancestry in starfinder?

[vast burrow]

Awwww Yaoguai can't actually turn into their original objects, it's just human form and slightly less human form

https://youtu.be/grBbNjH4OT0?si=zbW1Dapcdt2YTPSc

[vast burrow]

Still cool tho

[vast burrow]

I guess there's the one feat, but it's more about transforming to hide rather than being a sentient sword that others can swing about

[novel merlin]

There's a poppet heritage that is more about that

There's even a feat that gives you an unarmed attack in the sword group

[vast burrow]

Yeah I'm very excited for that one

[echo briar]

I’m not the most informed on Japanese mythology, but I don’t think the yokai it’s based off of could turn back into its inanimate form

Then again there’s thousands of stories of them, so in some stories they probably can

[rustic cape]

Given the name is distinctly un-Japanese, I would suspect these are not based solely on tsukumogami

[steel blade]

nah yaoguai are a chinese mythology thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoguai

[novel merlin]

Tsukumogami is the poppet heritage

[vast burrow]

Also huh, it seems like the " if you have an ability that already does this, you instead turn crit failures into normal failures" clause of "turn normal successes into crit successes" abilities are like, PC2 only? Because some Heritages have that in TXCG and they don't get the crit fail clause

[warped orbit]

As a replacement that's new yeah

[echo briar]

are any of the TXCG ancestries large, or have the ability to become large?

[clever cobalt]

The Half-Oni, but only temporarily

[surreal basin]

So there’s a good chance my newly level 5 players are gonna try and push without sleep over the road in order to make it to town to get one of them incurred

*uncursed

I wanna make a scary encounter if they do that, but I’m not coming up with anything good

[sinful gyro]

A scary encounter on the way to down

Or in the town?

[surreal basin]

On the way to town

[sinful gyro]

What's the surrounding environment like?

[surreal basin]

I have a map in mind which is a frozen over pond, with a collapsed carriage and dead horses
For context it’s the middle of the winter, in a Russian kinda area, with an eldritch curse over the land making shit weird and awful

[sinful gyro]

Gotcha gotcha

Have you considered a Drider?

[surreal basin]

Huh, mayhaps

[sinful gyro]

backed up with some Grothlut

[surreal basin]

Any particular thought behind it?

[sinful gyro]

Eldrich looking, Drider can be a sort of leader for the Grothlut setting up an ambush on the road

Other options: Winter hag

One of those is a moderate encounter on it's own

Fits into the location, can use the frost / snow to it's advantage

Allows you to bring in snow as a mechanic in combat

Less horror themed, the Irriseni Owlbear

It's basically a snow themed tougher owl bear

Maybe it's got a tougher companion it's travelling with

[clever cobalt]

What level is the party?

Oh, 5

[sinful gyro]

I'm assuming the party has 4 people to

[surreal basin]

Balance wise yes

Sorry, by this I mean

3 actual PCs and an NPC companion

Oooo

Hold on

So I typically prefer

To do hags as like, malevolent arc villains

But

I could make this Hag like, maddened by the eldritch influence

[sinful gyro]

She used to be part of the eco system

A kid goes wandering into the woods

The hag gets a meal

A few lost hunters here and there, balanaced as it should be

But now

Like a wild bear, she has the venture closer to the town

The food has dried up in the wilderness

The eldrich ecosystem isn't made for her

She strikes out to survive

[surreal basin]

That’d be good for an extended plot and I’m saving it in my back pocket
But for a random encounter I’m thinking like more like, frenzied
She’s too sensitive to these things, the encroaching influence digs into her mind, twisting her even further

Now

What should I do to her statblock to make her like

Fucked up and feral

[sinful gyro]

Staff has fused with them

The wood has overgrown into their arm

(less a stat thing more a visual thing)

[surreal basin]

Mhmhm

Also gonna have her probably fuck off at low health because now that I’ve made her a basically feral hag is too good a plot idea to not have sitting around

[sinful gyro]

Shouldn't be too hard to do

Fly at will, Pass without trace

And will have concealement cos snow

[surreal basin]

I HAVE DONE MECHANICS

And i gave her a bite that has a lower to hit but does bleed and persistent cold

[sinful gyro]

No save for the first effect?

[echo briar]

How powerful would quick bomber, but for administering elixirs be?

so one action, make/draw and then administer/drink and elixir

[surreal basin]

i yanked it right off of a young white dragon but yknow what yeah it should probably be a reflex save

[sinful gyro]

Like, save take half damage and no slow, fail, full damage and slow imo

[surreal basin]

Mhmhm

Also

Forgot that exhausted isn’t a thing in 2e but it’s fine

I personally prefer a stage beyond fatigued
So I’ve just made the very simple condition, of being sickened 1 until you get a long rest

[echo briar]

Missiles in sf2. currently, they take 2 actions to load, 2 actions to fire and deal... 1d8+1 damage.

I'm not alone in thinking they are comically underwhelming right?

grenades deal 1d8 damage per upgrade, take on average 2 actions to use instead of 4 (and if you start with one in your hand its 1 action), are a basic save so you do more damage on average on a "miss" (2.25 on a successful grenade save vs 1 splash from a missile miss) and a true AOE instead of splash

[sinful gyro]

They should probably be changed yeah

[echo briar]

I feel like they could triple the damage and it would be fine

make it a marital focus spell by making it impractical to reload mid combat

[surreal basin]

Yeah they’re currently just longer range grenades

I think they could make them more expensive, and somehow limit their use, but make them big impact

[limber comet]

I am sitting here thinking about mythic rules

What is your ideal mythic adventure? Either as a player or gm

Or both

[surreal basin]

Much like WOTR I want some world changing shit

I wanna like…. Permanently kill Tar Baphon

[limber comet]

I mean tbf, closing the Sarkoris Scar and killing a demon lord is world changing

Just not in the same way killkng Tar-Baphon would be

[turbid dagger]

I'd say they'e roughly equal honestly
Tar Baphon certainly has more history behind him
But th worldwound was an active, extreme threat to the entire planet in its own right

[limber comet]

I can't think of any world-threatening things beyond Tar-Baphon off the top of my head

Me personally I want something out of classical myth or folklore

[turbid dagger]

Maybe the pit of gormuz/tarrasque but hard to make a whole campaign out of that

[limber comet]

I do hope the Godsrain causes...problems

[surreal basin]

Yes that’s what I mean

I want something like WOTR

[sinful gyro]

There's the Eye of Abendego

[rustic cape]

Still think they shoulda killed Rovagug >_>

[heavy mesa]

They basically did in Starfinder and replaced him with Rovagug 2

[rustic cape]

(My pet peeve in sci fi and the like is black holes being presented antagonistically)

[vast burrow]

When do we get the antagonistic white hole god

Their only goal is creation, no matter what, no matter how, sooner or later the universe is gonna fill up, they need to be stopped

[rustic cape]

Black holes, meanwhile, are the core of all major universal structures

Their gravity forms the bedrock for its organization

Black holes are forces of order

[silver geyser]

I feel that ignores the way more famous aspect of black holes

[rustic cape]

That their incredible gravity can be used to extract maybe 40% of the total mass energy of an object? /j

I know why science fiction likes to portray them as devouring everything

It's very dramatic

But the main things they do, cosmically speaking, is serve as orbital anchors for enormous numbers of stars and nebulae

If you really wanted to lean into mixed symbolism you could lean into that as a sort of devil's bargain, I suppose

"The price of holding everything together is a few small sacrifices"

That kind of thing

[clever cobalt]

I hope we get a Taldor AP in 2e

Or at least developments in the area (maybe in WoI)

[rapid wagon]

taldor is the godless land right?

or the knight land?

[clever cobalt]

The latter yeah. Decayiing ancient homeland of the Rome inspired Empire

Also a bit of Byzantine Rome

[limber comet]

I mean maybe?

There's going to be a war focused book coming out in 2025 as far as we know

[rapid wagon]

i think my favorite thing about them are their lion blades i think they're called

specialist agents

[clever cobalt]

Yeah the Bard Secret Agents

[trail nova]

Probably the big Soft Power of the Inner Sea area

[echo briar]

How do you describe spells that are arcane and divine, but not primal or occult?

[limber comet]

In what way

[solar tendon]

arcane and divine are opposites, with primal and occult between them as a sort of square

so something thats only the opposite poles is Different

[echo briar]

yea, arcane is material things and mental things. Divine is bodily things and spiritual things. There is no overlap

[fossil temple]

Local 40k fan, would you say the Witchwarper is fitting for a Necron PC?

Be like a Cryptek or a Chronomancer in that matter

[echo briar]

Wait, Tian Xia CG has inventor stuff?

[novel merlin]

A little bit

[echo briar]

And they reference everything from dragonball to the 70s Japanese spider man show?

[limber comet]

Pretty much

[echo briar]

whats the spiderman reference?

[limber comet]

Oh no idea on that one

I'm not knowledgeable about 70s Spider-Man

[surreal basin]

oh

my player decided to just give into being a ghoul last night for Plot Reasons so

didn't get to use the feral hag idea

but honestly i think the idea of checking in on a local hag coven, each of which is fucked up in a different way, sounds really cool

[silver geyser]

Pretty close, yeah

[fossil temple]

Perfect, thanks

[eager mountain]

Dragonkin in starfinder are aliens yeah

[frank crystal]

Oh cool

[eager mountain]

essentialyly smaller bipedal dragons

( thier still large )

the big yellow guys are dragonkin

[frank crystal]

I know it’s just how their legs work but it is kinda funny how their default pose of standing is ass out

[echo briar]

Something that may need correction: Barathu need to spend one action every turn to fly or else they fall. This means that if they sleep on their planet, they will die

[frank crystal]

That seems, unoptimal for living

[echo briar]

yea. They probably need some way to float while sleeping

or the more specific but potentially more useful "can hover as free action in a dense atmosphere, even when unconscious"

[frank crystal]

How do they survive in universe?

Like I get they can fly but like, how do you fly normally when you’re asleep?

[surreal basin]

They don’t have wings, they’re just a floating bag of gas

So they just

Float

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

[echo briar]

yea, they live in gas giant

[keen raptor]

Could probably just say it's an involuntary process when they're asleep

[sinful gyro]

They have a land speed

So they can just, exist on the ground

[eager mountain]

where does it say that ?

[surreal basin]

The flying rules

All flying creatures without a hover speed need to spend an action each turn flying

[sinful gyro]

Or exist on a suitable dense gas

[eager mountain]

oof

[echo briar]

That is sadly not RAW

and is the crux of the problem

[solar tendon]

do they sleep?

[echo briar]

the rules don't say otherwise

[sinful gyro]

I mean, we don't have rules for the gas giant planet

So

It could easily just say "treat this dense gas as ground"

And hey presto they can sleep

[echo briar]

but then it gets weird with like humans

there is no gas dense enough to walk on

[sinful gyro]

Well they'd float

Assuming a suit designed to protect against pressure

At a deep enough depth, the density would equal their bodies and they'd float around

With enough pressure it'd turn into a liquid or liquid like substance to

[echo briar]

so will the Barathu

[sinful gyro]

If they work like a jellyfish, nah they'd be fine

Intense ocean pressures and they can still survive

[echo briar]

It feels weird if they need to fall a few miles every night

[sinful gyro]

They probably float

If anything, they float a long time before humans do

Cos they have much less density

[echo briar]

The point I'm making is they should probably do that mechanically

[sinful gyro]

When we get mechanics for gas giants, they probably will

[echo briar]

It feels like if the rules for gas giants need to call out the Barathu directly (because who else would these rules apply to) then it makes more sense to put those rules into the ancestry directly

[sinful gyro]

I don't think it makes sense to add rules for environmental features onto ancestries when they're part of the GM rules

Like you don't need to say that humans can't breathe under water or gravity makes fall damage

And I don't think they will call them out specifically

I think the rules for it will work such that people float or can use their land speed

For example, it could use the already existing untethered rules

This also seems like a very silly thing to get hung up on

[rustic cape]

I see it as a "where should we put those rules so they actually get remembered" thing

If they're in the ancestry they're just gonna get lost

[limber comet]

there's a few aliens from 1e that live in gas giants naturally

[wooden orbit]

I believe subscribers got the PDFs early.

I love the new Goblin heritage in the Tian Xia player guide. Also Hungerseed, and Yaoguai.

And the Wayang. I am kinda tempted by the Yaksha, and the Peachchild Leshy maybe

[turbid dagger]

I just had a brain blast
Chakram thaum? Once it gets a returning rune it seems great

[true delta]

Request for clarification: Is there one Tian Xia book or are there two (a world guide and a character guide)? Some discussions have sounded as if the latter were the case.

[novel merlin]

There are 2

[warped orbit]

The world guide has been out for a while

The character guide is just about to

[limber comet]

Technically, in most time zones, it is out

But that's time zone shenanigans

[light gyro]

Im too used to tracked shipping that I've just subconsciously assumed my tian xia char guide has fallen off the face of the earth. Maybe if I post about it it'll just show up

[turbid dagger]

ALERT
TIAN XIA CHARACTER GUIDE IS ON PATHBUILDER

[rapid wagon]

Eyyy

[light gyro]

Tome..........

[rapid wagon]

what stuff does it add?

like where do i look for the tian xia character guide content on pathbuilder?

[light gyro]

new ancestries, some heritages for existing ancestries, new dedications, new uncommon feats with access for tian xia characters

[rapid wagon]

cool cool ty

[light gyro]

also just found the cultivator archetype. wuxia time???

[rapid wagon]

i like it

spirit warrior doesnt seem to combo nicely into monk i notice

but cultivator kinda does

[dapper tusk]

so

does this work how I think it does?

[worthy stump]

30 ft range gouging claw? indeed

[dapper tusk]

huh

Mr Fantastic arm, I guess

[rapid wagon]

longclaw

[limber comet]

I mean there's a number of different ways to do that sorta thing

The claw could just apparate next to your target

[rapid wagon]

elden ring beast magic, just apparated claws fly along the ground

[light gyro]

Magus gouging claw to put the strength of a gorilla into your sword swing

[warped orbit]

Gouging Claw is my go to for Eldritch Archer too 😛

[turbid dagger]

Considering mechanically its literally just 'slashing damage and bleed' its very easy to reflavor

[warped orbit]

as it should really
I think of the cantrips it's pretty clearly the best one

*if you need a spell attack

[turbid dagger]

For my Sparkling Targe magus he strikes his shield like a gong and his sword goes all vibro-blade for the slice

[true delta]

You're saying posting about it has actually made it appear at your door?

[light gyro]

Yeahg

[echo briar]

On of the new leshy feats lets you give an animal the benefits of striking runes. does this work with animal companions.

[warped orbit]

oh wow

[turbid dagger]

May I get some input on a Thaum that is using some of the new Marshal stuff https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=858478

I expect it to really pop off at 7, with it truly getting Everything It Wants at 9

The character is currently level 4, this is a rebuild

[wary yoke]

My landsknecht magus's gauging claw is him temporarily turning the sword into a chitinous, spiky sword-shaped abomination

[solar tendon]

why have paizo not updated their storefront in 20 years

my cart doesn't even have a subtotal

[surreal basin]

They’re working on it iirc

[solar tendon]

okiii

got both tian xia pdfs and first season of ghosts foundry module

excited to see how they areee

[worthy stump]

poggers

have fun readin' 'em

[solar tendon]

I don't think I have any tian xia character concepts so will be interesting to see what hooks there are

kinda excited for an adventure that's just hometown adventurers

no high concept

[keen raptor]

I love that this is the picture they chose for the "Even-Tempered" Tanuki

[warped orbit]

All the Tanuki heritages are the opposite of their name

[solar tendon]

ooh peachchild leshy

neat

play a little peach kid who was raised by lesbian moms who couldn't have a baby

[light gyro]

the new kitsune heritage is for all you manipulation-pilled tamamo-maxxers out there

[keen raptor]

There's a few interesting new Kitsune feats too. Star Orb is useful for more than casting Poison Cloud and being a pet rock now. You can also use it as a reaction to save an ally from being KOed now.

Still not sure if I'd take it, but it's nice that it actually has an extra option now.

[warped orbit]

oh neat

[sinful gyro]

My current pf2e session

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAyPBuqGFU

[keen raptor]

You can also give Foxfire persistent damage at level 9, so I wonder if a ranged Foxfire Monk build would be viable

[warped orbit]

Ascetic is better at finding food and drink
Courageous is better at running away
Even Tempered gets better successes and worse failures against emotion effects
Steadfast gets easier access to their shapeshifting feats
Virtuous gets a bunch of abilities protecting them from the downsides of being drunk

[keen raptor]

Amazing

[warped orbit]

funnily this makes Virtuous Tanuki the only ones mechanically capable of dying from alcohol poisoning

[surreal basin]

What

[warped orbit]

actually wait, you still can't

[warped orbit]

so alcohol is a drug mechanically, and as such uses affliction rules

but its stage can only advance by consuming more alcohol

however, at stage 4 you become Sickened
and you can't consume most things while Sickened

so you can't actually drink any more alcohol once you get to that stage, and thus can't advance your stage anymore

Virtuous Tanuki however, can still eat and drink while Sickened
so they can continue
but stage 6 makes you unconscious, so they still can't get to stage 7 which is death

[keen raptor]

RAW says they can't be incapacitated by normal alcohol if they don't want to, so doesn't that mean they won't pass out either?

Being able to eat and drink while sickened is pretty crazy strong though. That heavily neuters one of the nastiest common status effects

[light gyro]

favourite new feat by name alone has to be 'Fox Arson'.

(your foxfire does persistent damage, and if another creature touches the victim, you can move that persistent damage to them as a reaction)

[keen raptor]

I really want to try and make a Foxfire-focused build now just to see if it's viable.

[light gyro]

I played a bit with using it on monk as a backup low-investment ranged option. There's a couple of decent stances that don't stop you from using it

[warped orbit]

oh yeah maybe

[solar tendon]

ooohh

fan dancer

feint and stride 10ft

[warped orbit]

this is also pretty neat on Spirit Warrior

another way to attack at range with Str

[rustic cape]

Yeah that's rad

... honestly Spirit Warrior on barbarian could be a hell of a play

Oh but wait agile

It wants agile stuff

Never mind >_>

[novel merlin]

The jumpy magus combined with winged warrior on a strix is pretty cool

[warped orbit]

onehanded, agile, or finesse

it only needs to be one of the three

[keen raptor]

Zelda sword beams I love it.

[fossil temple]

I can't believe we can play as Waluigi now

[sinful gyro]

Replace "wanderer" with "luigi"

[sinful gyro]

Thank you

[warped orbit]

huh, Fan Dancer has some interesting stuff

they can get an aura that gives allies a speed boost, and counts as difficult terrain for enemies

just passively, as long as you hold a fan

and a reaction to give attacks against allies misfortune

[rustic cape]

Aye, although the punch attack is gonna be agile

[warped orbit]

true

[rustic cape]

Maaaaaybe you could do an end-run around that with a non-agile ancestry attack? Does it require fist specifically?

[warped orbit]

it has to be fist specifically unfortunately

[tough perch]

thaumaturge is the real winner with spirit warrior, i think

doesn't really let you apply weakness twice but it does open up action economy a lot

[surreal basin]

Set up a games bond ass infiltration for my players tonight

[young chasm]

is there any way to make ranged weapons work with swashbuckler?

or is it melee/throwing weapons only

[novel merlin]

Throwing is the best you're gonna get

It's quite good tho for anyone with a ranged way to get bravado

[fossil temple]

I have yet to understand Thaumaturge
WHen I tried to go with melee I kept taking too much damage

[rustic cape]

I think typically you use your faux-items for defense

[warped orbit]

I mean they have normal martial durability

you got medium armor, just wear a breastplate and that should be it for AC

[fossil temple]

Will do

[fossil temple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/669025110916857857/1278533106969608192/image.png?ex=66d1263e&is=66cfd4be&hm=5e8d4e4280dc82ebfe2b444e6d27ffd2f32ec53d145e47ce31ab034327f637d2& Reason 1 to buy "A Cosmic Birthday "

[worthy stump]

[tough perch]

throw in amulet if you can. i wouldn't recommend a thaum to be the sole frontline, but they can hold their own alright

[frank crystal]

Hmm, is an agile build worth it for thaum?

Because like, you only really get the one weapon

[echo briar]

Tomorrow I need to fit 1 hour of an AP into a 3 hour session so that everyone is there for the very important scene that happens immediately afterwards

[novel merlin]

Not really? Its more a big-hits class because of the action cost of finding vuln

[echo briar]

The thing is, if you have the actions agile is very powerful on a thaumaturge due to how much damage each attack is doing

You can get the equivalent of a d10 agile weapon, which I don’t believe exists

If it existed, it would be one of the best 2 Handed weapons in the game, because the more damage each attack has the more valuable accuracy is

Just did the math: if you’re attacking twice in a turn, the agile weapon deals way more damage on a thaumaturge. But that’s a big if, because thaumaturges don’t have the best action economy

[solar storm]

You can probably build for it

Mostly more passive implements and such

[warped orbit]

enter Spirit Warrior 😛

[echo briar]

It also goes down in relative value if you have a map free reaction

Also, I wonder how long I can fool my other players with the tanuki feat that lets you permanently disguise yourself as a priest

What class can disguise itself as a divine caster without being a divine caster itself?

[tough perch]

sadly spirit warrior combines the damage of both attacks for weakness and resistances, so only the bonus implement damage will apply for the second strike

which is still good

but if you want to maximize damage output an agile d6 weapon will still be the way to go

[limber comet]

The new Sea of Stars dlc trailer has me thinking of making a carnie character

A kineticist that's a firebreather would be cool

Or maybe same class but metal focus, and maybe they're a sword swallower

[solar tendon]

pondering season of ghosts characters and I kinda like the idea of playing into the seasonal theme

Like a kineticist who starts with Fire/Earth then goes into Metal, Water, Wood respectively

or perhaps Wood/Fire -> Earth, Metal, Water

There's also the option of going monk and using the new five breaths archetype

oh that's kinda high level actually, there are some relevant benefits

I thought base monk had more support for stance dancing now

ooh TXCG has advanced weapon support for monk

level 6 feat tax but full scaling

[worthy stump]

indeed! advanced monk weapons are finally viable...

[solar tendon]

five breath vanguard seems really fun

though feels like it needs free archetype to really shine and lean into

otherwise it's probably best to go like 2-3 stances

but very good chance I'll play it

the way the feats work out going in strict order isn't ideal so I think I'll have my character born in winter and like, naturally water aspected kinda thing

and then she'll also start with fire, then pick up mountain level 4, iron level 8, forest level 14

and you don't really need to cycle every stance till level 10 anyway

shame we won't get to the capstone levels but hey, maybe we'll find a time portal/play our descendants and do fists of the ruby phoenix lol

[clever cobalt]

I'm a fan of Kaiju Stance admittedly

[echo briar]

After a SF2 playtest, glitching is weird

first, its a condition that can only effect some creatures. But on the creatures it effects, its an item penalty, which is basically never seen elsewhere.

every time you use an action that glitching effects, you need to make a flat check. Thats a lot of rolling.

If you get a crit success on the flat check the condition ends, but the DC is 10+the glitching value, so you can only crit succeed on a nat 20

if the source of the glitching condition doesn't have its own time limit, you kinda just need to wait until you get a nat 20 to end it

[keen raptor]

Flat check seems weird. Seems like it should be a Will save or similar.

[solar tendon]

stupefied is a flat check for casters too

although like stupefied it should always be given with a duration yeah

there's also plenty of creatures that don't cast or use mental stats so 🤷

I guess will saves

[echo briar]

yea, but you generally only cast 1 spell a turn

[solar tendon]

that dc is rough thoughh

[sinful gyro]

Lots of stuff is flat checks tbh

Concealed being a big one

[warped orbit]

To remove the condition it seems a bit odd

[echo briar]

it being a flat check isn't a problem. its just a lot of rolls

but yea, the removal is the main problem

[warped orbit]

Glitching seems to be kinda analogous to Sickened IMO

As a more persistent debuff

But Sickened you just make a Fort save against the source again

[sinful gyro]

My main concern with glitching is what it applies to

Like, tech stuff, sure

How does that apply to armor

Do you get -1 AC?

What about tech that just gives a passive buff like +1 to perception

Or is it only items with tech that have actions

Or are tied to an action like strike

[ocean cobalt]

there's that and that like the only things that interact w the tech trait are stuff for crafting gear and debuffs

so its suboptimal in actually kind of a big way bc using it exposes you to a whole dimension of bad things that can happen to not any particular benefit in actual gameplay

which maybe isnt the worst but its a little disappointing that using all the crazy scifi stuff is worse for you than like using a boring semiautomatic pistol would be

[echo briar]

there are some things that interact positively with the tech trait. they just all suck right now

[craggy thunder]

Have people played with the dragonblood's AC feat?

Does it seem overpowered?

[rustic cape]

Hey, gonna ask here first: anyone interested in a steam code for the Owlcat vidya version of Kingmaker?

[clever cobalt]

Whats the feat?

[rustic cape]

Makes your unarmored into basically +2 AC/+3 max dex

Pretty strong for some characters

In particular strength monks love it

[clever cobalt]

Nice

[craggy thunder]

Yeah I made a laughing shadow with it

[rustic cape]

And like ... wizards and psychics and whatnot get a fair bit out of it

I think it's ... a little overtuned until level 5, maybe?

But by that point it's fine

[warped orbit]

It gets casters and Monks slightly higher AC early

Which I think is fine personally

[echo briar]

Also funny thing I've noticed about SF2 discussions: most people find the combat very static and uninteresting, but people can't decide if its because cover is far too good and is not worth leaving or is because cover is far to bad and not worth flanking your opponents out

I feel like finding out which of these is the actual problem (if ether of them) will be one of the main things the playtest needs to find

[craggy thunder]

It also makes unarmored str laughing shadow with 18 AC possible early which is fun

[clever cobalt]

Just curious for any DMs here- how's Curtain Call? And what's the plot?

[rapid wagon]

in pf2 and starfinder 2 theres no such thing as passive perception is there? It'd just be secret checks?

[warped orbit]

yeah

well you do also have a Perception DC

[solar tendon]

uh

yeah

which is how passive perception should really have been used in the first place

[warped orbit]

if someone is trying to sneak up on you, they'd roll Stealth vs your Perception DC

or you can make a secret check, either works

[solar tendon]

only opposed roll in pf2e is initiative

as they say

[warped orbit]

which is much cleaner overall

opposed rolls tend to be a bit of a mess IME

[true delta]

I only like them in games and situations where they are meant to simulate unpredictability.

[solar thorn]

I feel like its extra effort for mathematically the same result

When a Gug failed to meet the fort save of the ranger's notoriously fat and lazy snake when it tried to push through, twice, people were still able to celebrate that the snake was hard to move. We didnt need to roll for the snake as well to get that effect.

Side note, extremely excited for level 10 when her animal companion grows to large size and her fat, lazy python becomes fatter and lazier

[true delta]

Long Relaxo

[echo briar]

The GM designed a combat where the enemies had a huge weakness to one particular weapon, but resistance to everything else, with the intend that the rest of us focus on supporting whoever could get to the weapon first. Little did he know that illusionary creature applies weaknesses if the target thinks they apply

"duplicate ally" is the best spell in the game

[worthy stump]

the greatest enemies truly are the ones in your own head...

[solar storm]

Making a character for Prey for Death

This is gonna be fun

[echo briar]

My campaign is debating the plausibility of stage play telanovelas

[worthy stump]

as one does

i am for them, people would eat that shit up in Golarion

and they have newspapers and stuff in Absalom too, it's not that farfetched

[limber comet]

Is it on Golarion? If so, the answer is yes

I am confident that would be a thing

[limber comet]

Man

I'm so excited for the new vampire ap next year

[surreal basin]

Vampire AP?

[limber comet]

Yeah

It's called Shades of Blood

It's a 1-10 ap set on Shattered Azlant, focusing on vampires

[sinful gyro]

I think this is literally an upcoming AP

It's like level 10-20 with someone making a play about your level 1-10 adventures

[clever cobalt]

Not upcoming, it's already out

[sinful gyro]

Oh my bad

[worthy stump]

indeed, Curtain Call

[turbid dagger]

Curtain Call seems so good
Really fun concept for a 10-20
And 10-20s in general are good to see more of

[rapid wagon]

scenario 1 playtest starfinder complete

players seemed to enjoy the whole thing

[clever cobalt]

I really wanna play it but I can't find anyone hosting it

Which may be because it's built on basically being after another adventure

But you get what I mean

[turbid dagger]

That would do it, yeah
Maybe I can do it for my abomvaults group some time down the line 🤔

[echo briar]

That’s not a telanovela though

[warped orbit]

I wonder how long the actual opera part of Curtain Call will last

since it apparently also ties into the War of Immortals

[clever cobalt]

Last book releases next month

I'm interested as well but I know little about it

[wooden orbit]

Xianxia, not wuxia

Kinda excited for the orc AP coming out next year.

[echo briar]

Mammoth lord sterling dynamo

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs50qdv?Pathfinder-and-Starfinder-Infinite-OGL#1

You have one more month to post PF1 and SF1 content on infinite

[craggy thunder]

judging by the title, blood lords is about vampires right?

oh huh it's not

[surreal basin]

Not really per say

Yes but no

Just general undead

Vampires play a significant role though

[warped orbit]

the Blood Lords are just the rulers of Geb, it's a title

[craggy thunder]

I'm looking for a vampire-focused ap if one exists because I got randomly recommended the Castlevania Nocturne trailer version of Divine Bloodlines lol

[warped orbit]

there is an upcoming AP that may be vampire focused

[echo briar]

You will need to wait a few months

[craggy thunder]

F

I was in a game that was going to start that kinda had Castlevania vibes

But that fell through

What's funny is one of the characters in Nocturne is just an Earth/Metal Kineticist

[warped orbit]

yeah

[upbeat ridge]

Can flurry ranger with a long air repeater be a real thing?

[surreal basin]

I don’t see why not, you would need some damage runes on it but otherwise sure

[worthy stump]

mhm. you might be better off with a normal air repeater for the Agile trait, tho, on Flurry Ranger

[upbeat ridge]

Nvm didn’t realize it was a simple weapon

[surreal basin]

I mean that’s fine

[warped orbit]

feel like with the amount of attacks you want on Flurry, you'd still run out of ammo too quickly

[surreal basin]

Simple weapons, for what it’s worth, don’t always have a martial counterpart

You can’t get a martial version of what the air repeaters offer really lol

[turbid dagger]

You could in theory do something like a tamchal chakram thrown ranger for ranged agile stuff but
Air repeater has better range

[surreal basin]

oh yeah I just mean theres no martial repeating ranged weapon to my knowledge

[solar tendon]

there's the barricade buster but it's not got a ton of ammo

[surreal basin]

That’s advanced

[solar tendon]

oh what

weird

it's just a weird composite longbow

[surreal basin]

There’s some kind of internal math they do

To determine the prof a weapon needs

[solar tendon]

oh wait nvm longbow is d8

barricade buster : )

[turbid dagger]

Yeye, for martial agile ranged pretty much the only thing that fits great is uhhhhhhhh
The light hammer oddly enough

And even then its only range 20

'only'

[solar tendon]

I think I just always made an ork with weapon familiarity without even thinking

[surreal basin]

it's so funny that paizo is so scared of repeating and yet reload 0 is absolutely fine :3

[solar tendon]

yeaH

[surreal basin]

if bows were made with the way guns and gears was, they would be two handed and you'd need to draw arrows as an action or something :3

[solar tendon]

how awful

[worthy stump]

Paizo’s love for bows has truly persisted through the years

[keen raptor]

Were bows in tabletop 1e as silly as they are in the video games? Lann carries pretty much the entire early game in WOTR, lol.

[solar tendon]

identically silly

[worthy stump]

They had x3 crit multiplier and a ludicrous amount of feat support

There were so many strong ranged feats that only applied to bows in 1e

[warped orbit]

something something, Phalanx Piercer

[echo briar]

I think its more of a thematics thing than anything else

starfinder does not have this problem

but in pathfinder, air repeaters are clearly not doing a ton of damage, and everything else that would be repeating would obviously be advanced

but guns as a whole are fine, just niche, which is a decent spot to be in

They do stupid damage on a crit, but take an extra action to use

[surreal basin]

Well starfinder doesn’t have this problem because it’s a whole different ballgame with what’s cool ranged wise

It could be a thematics thing I just don’t think it really works out mechanically imo

But that’s just personally

[turbid dagger]

I still remember how scarred I was by that
I was so so so wild hyped that Hobgoblins were getting a cool bow! I was gonna make an investigator hobgob! With eldritch archer
Then treasure vault dropped proper and The Reload 1 Appears,,

[warped orbit]

Yeah...

[turbid dagger]

Though honestly
Nowadays it might be workable? Since you can reload as a free action after eldritch shot now
Then get Running Reload off something for when you arent using eldritch shot

[warped orbit]

Oh right I forgot they get the free reload now

That's gonna be useful for my Investigator too

[surreal basin]

ooooo free reload

magic guns....

gun witch

[warped orbit]

I am using Eldritch Archer with guns currently (my GM okayed it, instead of having to use Beast Gunner)

[fossil temple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/669025110916857857/1278454308920365136/image.png?ex=66d2d71b&is=66d1859b&hm=cc3217fb8a4756157f57ac87ae92e215ec927bfb2ceb736d6ddc3e65fef216ca&

So I saw this in the new book and I musk ask, is this an archetype?I could find nothing like this

Is just the size 1/2 Pegasus for Pathfinder, of course

[trail nova]

Looks like a summoner to me

[clever cobalt]

I have decided to do the funni

Fighter/Giant Barbarian dual class with dual wielded Falcatas

at level 7

I'll be playing them tomorrow

[steel blade]

think its meant to be an inventor construct

[limber comet]

It's a construct innovation inventor

[turbid dagger]

Is 'riding puppet you control with wires' a trope or something
Its a thing in fire emblem too

[fossil temple]

Somehwat, I say it got popular because of Naruto

[fossil temple]

ooooooooh!! Thank you

Time to be a wooden construct that controls other wooden constructs

best background, thanks starfinder

Time to make a Witch and make her patron know only as "Chat"

[limber comet]

Thinking about porting D&D settings to pf2e

Specifically some Ravenloft domains

[light gyro]

☝️🤓 umm achtually ravenloft is a domain in the demiplane of dread
shouldn't be too hard, pf2e has all the classic halloween monsters somewhere. the corruption mechanic from the ad&d should be easy enough to port over too. i need to actually knuckle down and read it.

[tough perch]

i'd argue a setting isn't necessarily a world, and that you could call ravenloft a setting

[limber comet]

Incorrect

The domain itself is called Barovia

The setting is called Ravenloft

It's named that way because of Castle Ravenloft in Barovia, which is the first domain of dread

[turbid dagger]

Weird question- is there any way to make your basic fist strike lose Agile? I could have sworn there was an ancestry feat like that

[upbeat ridge]

Are there any initial domain spells that buff an ally?

[solar storm]

Family does

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1800

[upbeat ridge]

Ok

[trim grotto]

I gotta play a kobold psychic

[turbid dagger]

Can a Scroll Esoterica Thaum serve as a spell repository for a wizard or witch
Since they can make a temporary scroll for any spell they have access too
So thaum makes scroll, gives it to wizard
It only lasts the day but learn a spell takes an hour per spell rank

[novel merlin]

Scroll esoteric specifically says they can't be used to learn a spell

[turbid dagger]

Aw drat, I missed that snuck in there 😔

[fossil temple]

"Alright I will perform into the Inn-" 9
"You know what, I will use my heroic point to play ag-"9

[echo briar]

What nation in starfinder has the best MREs?

[trail nova]

MREs specifically? Veskarium is probably up there

Uh, one of the pact worlds would be my second guess

[trail nova]

They combine intense militarism with a certain level of care for the troops.

[wooden orbit]

Making a Primal Dragonblood Centaur for whenever I get the chance to play Wardens of the Wild AP...and kinda lost on what to do for a class at the moment x-x

[turbid dagger]

Str monk is always good
My Big Idea for Centaur right now is Swashbuckler but that calls for Ironhoof heritage
So you can get Steelhoof for a d8 finesse unarmed attack

[wooden orbit]

Mostly trying to find something that fits the AP, and goes with the Moot Guard background o.o

[frank crystal]

For a dual weapon barb ranger y’all think barb with ranger dedication or the other way around?

[ocean cobalt]

ranger dedication yeah

barb dedication doesnt hve scaling rage damage

[solar storm]

Ok I'm being dumb right?

Construct Companions are immune to mental or emotion things right?

[frank crystal]

I dont think so

They dont have the mindless trait

[solar storm]

lol

[silver geyser]

They are not immune to mental and emotional effects.

[ocean cobalt]

they have feelings too!

[solar tendon]

I'll take vulnerability to mental and emotion over like

having to program their behaviour lol

[surreal basin]

Yep they aren’t mindless

[frank crystal]

They don’t even have the construct immunities I think

[surreal basin]

… scroll up slightly :3

And by that I mean read the thing Cyan posted

[solar tendon]

I loved having construct immunities

so much poison damage against my big bot

[frank crystal]

I’m a little dumb

[solar tendon]

season of ghosts party seems to be shaping up to be Thaumaturge maybe marshal, Five Breath Vanguard Monk, Warrior Bard with a bow

ranged warrior bard support does seem a bit hit or miss? but it's not like you have to take every warrior feat haha

oh right ancestries. Kitsune Thaumaturge, Human Monk, Yaksha Bard

[rustic cape]

If you’re not emotionally committed to ranger, dual weapon warrior might be better — I feel the lack of agile weapons for a barb makes MAP really rough

Trading an action for +3 to the second attack and better ability to penetrate resistance is not a bad deal

[surreal basin]

Can barb not use agile weapons?

[solar tendon]

there's a damage nerf

that is like, absolutely not worth statistically

halved rage damage

but at the same time like, people really don't like making second attacks with non agile weapons ngl

even though the math is pretty concrete for the most part

[surreal basin]

Hmmm

Yknow

[solar tendon]

even the -2 from double slice on barb is worth I Believeee

[surreal basin]

I think it might be worth going barb and dual weapon warrior with one normal weapon and one agile weapon if you don’t wanna take the penalty to hit

Instead of going ranger

As your archetype

[solar tendon]

I kinda like there being a niche for dual wielding non agile weapons though tbh

[surreal basin]

Oh I mean for sure

[solar tendon]

it's also weird cause like animal barb gives you agile attacks

but at the same time they're discouraged by the halving

[surreal basin]

Well, I guess it’s less discouraged and more of just a trade off like

[solar tendon]

yeah

I think that's true in practice

[surreal basin]

“Do you want a better chance to hit but less damage” which I would absolutely take during say a like

+3 PL fight

[solar tendon]

I think it actually makes more of a difference the lower the target ac is cause then crits are a higher proportion of your damage

[surreal basin]

Because if that didn’t exist agile weapons would be cracked for barbs a little and the classic barb is using a two hander

[solar tendon]

oh yeah

the less the die size downgrade is a part of your damage the more agile is worth it

[surreal basin]

[solar tendon]

in practice like, barb just does ridiculous damage and the math doesn't matter haha

[surreal basin]

A little bit yeah

[solar tendon]

and I think missing 5% less often is more important for enjoyment than doing a little extra damage? missing sucks, it doesn't really matter if you missed cause you took the statistically higher expected damage option

[surreal basin]

It’s REAL hard to make a “bad” barbarian outside of either being obstinate, not raging, or deciding to go throwing build without knowing what you’re doing

[solar tendon]

I think the only thing that sucks more than missing is rolling 1d4 for damage and then losing it all to resistance

[surreal basin]

I can tell you what sucks more

Being a precision damage class, hitting a guy, and watching JUST your weapon damage go through

Because they’re immune to precision

[solar tendon]

oh yeah that sucksss

[surreal basin]

shakes fist at sky OOOZES

I will never except precision immunity as making sense

For anything

[solar tendon]

You have to use this type of weapon for flavour reasons, but needing to do less damage sometimes as a result is Very Important

[warped orbit]

precision immunity does suck a lot if your class relies on it

[solar tendon]

oh shit

I just realised how you fix golems and precision immunity at the same time (ignore golems already got removed) - a new monster type that only takes spell and precision damage

see now its fine

[surreal basin]

I wouldn’t be so mad about it if it didn’t like

Completely break precision classes

They are not…. Built with options to do stuff in fights where they can’t do precision

[solar tendon]

mm

I agree logically and my emotional feelings about it are pure hatred thanks to pathfinder kingmaker by owlcat games

[warped orbit]

in our AV game, we had both a ranged Investigator and a ranged Precision Ranger 😛

we both had some trouble dealing with ghosts and other precision immune enemies

[surreal basin]

Ghost touch should let you do precision damage to ghosts

[warped orbit]

yeah

would genuinely help a lot

[novel merlin]

Fear immunity is #2 in terms of most infuriating imo

[surreal basin]

Really?

[novel merlin]

Maybe its just because I frequnetly play with like occult witches and stuff

Or other fear-based builds

[echo briar]

Mindless is worse than fear immunity simply because almost all fear effects are also mental

[warped orbit]

mindless can be tough if you rely on mental effects, yeah

[echo briar]

For the people who have playtested SF2, what are your thoughts on AoE weapons?

My playtests really make me think that they all probably should have a single target mode like automatic weapons

They just suck if you can't hit multiple targets, but they're so expensive and action intensive to use that using another weapon against single targets is usually not a great idea

and most of the solders stuff doesn't work if you don't use an Aoe

[rapid wagon]

mmm, i dont know that i hate them after the one combt ive run with one in it

soldiers with priority target already can sort of single target with em

as long as its not unwieldy

oh wait

[echo briar]

Yea, but should these be "soldier only" weapons?

[rapid wagon]

priorty ignores unwieldy too

nah, its that soldiers use them better

not only the soldier can use them

and i got no problem with the "aoe weapon class" being better with aoe weapons

[echo briar]

How would you make a character function whose entire initial motivation is to kill his sworn enemy… the first combatant in the adventure

[surreal basin]

… like his sworn enemy is the first guy you fight?

I mean I guess his character arc would become what happens after you get revenge

But if a player is actually interested in revenge I probably wouldn’t make it happen that early

[worthy stump]

recurring enemy that somehow always manages to avoid being killed in increasingly unlikely ways

[fossil temple]

Reading the Starfinder comic to get the lore and-

THE MACHINE GOD, IT EXISTS

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-wh40k-imperium-of-man-adeptus-mechanicus-mechanicus-gif-1633196030595994455

[echo briar]

do you think in the G&G "remaster" they will make gunslingers work with slings?

[worthy stump]

yes, but only if you load the slings with firearms

[echo briar]

sling gunner

[echo briar]

lvl 4 feat: Gun Sling: 2 actions
reload a sling with a 1 handed loaded firearm, then strike with that sling. If that strike hits, you may strike a different creature with the loaded firearm with the same multiple attack penalty as the attack with the sling, tracing range and line of sight from the character you hit with the slings range.

[eager mountain]

Yeah triune

( not actually what triune looks like but it could be

[solar thorn]

I love savage animal companion omg

[surreal basin]

So large……

[warped orbit]

snek

[fossil temple]

sick!

[eager mountain]

the long boi

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/hmmm-thinking-batman-gif-6153870554148391864

are you playing the beginner box ?

[solar thorn]

It's Abomination Vaults

[eager mountain]

ah that would make sense

same same

i dont know if we have made it to a fungal area , other than a few encounters

[solar thorn]

Won't spoil anything
There are mushrooms tho

[limber comet]

It is an underground megadungeon

There are probably a few mushrooms, just by...yknow how damp and dark it likely is

[eager mountain]

i mean I know that, ive seen mushrooms

IIRC , we are too the brain layer

[fossil temple]

I can't believe RA gave info for pathfinder so starfinder can start

[eager mountain]

wha ?

[fossil temple]

joke how, Lancer's RA that is Starfinder god, Triune

[fossil temple]

SP and RP are Starfinder 1e things right?

[surreal basin]

Yes

[fossil temple]

thank ya

[surreal basin]

That’s a 1e Starbucks for sure

Statblock

Thanks autocorrect

[fossil temple]

Weird how the Starfinder comic was released in 2023 used the 1e stat blocks (with new 1e content inside) and didn't wait a few more months to release with 2e tester stuff
But I guess it would be kinda hellish to hold it even more

Comic's fun tho, I recommend

[solar tendon]

oh damn

I didn't realise how many of fan dancer's feats are skill feats

this archetype is kinda wild

I think swashbuckler (fencer) is the natural fit?

[warped orbit]

Fan Dancer seems pretty cool yeah

[solar tendon]

the fan isnt awful with a little strength and precise strike either

backstabber is just fun to have little a off guard synergy as a treat

and deadly d6 is orite

[solar tendon]

oh this is awesome

nodachi has Brace - so does +2 damage per dice if you ready an attack

[warped orbit]

that is pretty neat

also this just has to be flavored as a iaijutsu trick

[solar tendon]

I love magic items that are just new cool abilities and not generic aoe that falls off after a level

this is also a pretty nice build around

[carmine egret]

ooooh love that

finally, a sword for Tortuga pilots

[surreal basin]

so

I have a funny familiar ability for my player who is carrying around the super fucked up shade of a sorcerer king

which is that once per day i want the familiar to be able to sustain specifically a summon spell for him

because the wizard really likes casting animate undead

[echo briar]

what class could disguise itself as a cleric the best? ideally a non divine caster

[sinful gyro]

Some kinda oracle?

[trail nova]

Druid or another primal caster? Or Thaumaturge.

[carmine egret]

Wood Kineticist is oddly cleric-adjacent at times

[echo briar]

I'm trying to see how long I can trick the rest of the party with the new tanuki feat that lets you disguise yourself as a priest and use deception in place of religion

[carmine egret]

oh that's a funny one

picturing a goblet thaumaturge that uses a gourd bottle

[steel blade]

druid or primal witch/sorc would be my suggestions; might have to claim to worship a nature deity to explain spells depending on what you take, but primal and divine have enough overlap it shouldn't be too difficult, and the best part is you can still take Heal/Harm

[trail nova]

“Isn’t that Call Lightning?” “No, it’s divine judgment”

[rapid wagon]

rogue with a disguise kit and some slight of hand

and maybe medical knowledge

and religious knowledge

in the mastermind racket probably

and then being opportunistic in your trickery

[echo briar]

the problem is that the other players will wonder why I never cast any spells

and how I do so much damage with my strikes

[steel blade]

i mean, i will point out that if you're using any kind of VTT, it'll probably show the traits on any actions you use when you roll, so any class feats will be a dead giveaway
and if you use foundry and the GM gives observer permissions to other players, they can just straight up see your class

deceiving the other characters is more important than deceiving the other players when it comes to basic mechanical shit

[echo briar]

you can edit those

just change the "sorcerer" tag to the "cleric" tag

[steel blade]

not sure if you can do that without being the gm

[solar tendon]

first time you make a perception check and your wis isn't 4 probably

I mean a warpriest might do that but then the question would be why you aren't using the warpriest feats

either that or when they ask why you can cast so few max level spells

[echo briar]

Sorry guys, foundry is messing up. I can only use blind GM roll (a thing that has legitimately happened to me so its not suspicious)

[solar tendon]

second one then

[surreal basin]

Druid is probably the only thing you could actually get away with

[steel blade]

oh, you can edit traits as a non-gm (just tested it on one of my own)

[surreal basin]

Because like

You need to be able to cast heal

[echo briar]

primal sorc also works

[surreal basin]

Fair enough

Now I will say

I don’t think actually doing this is a good idea :p

[solar tendon]

like if you're level 1 the difference between casting 2 spells and throwing out 4+ heals a day is gonna be noticeable

[echo briar]

For a long term campaign? absolutely

this however is a oneshot

[surreal basin]

Yeah but that’s unavoidable , there’s no class that can do that the same

[solar tendon]

hence why it's such a giveaway lol

[steel blade]

see that is a very important piece of context

[solar tendon]

if your wildest dreams are one session that makes a big difference yeah

[echo briar]

I have played a 10th level cleric. If I'm doing things right I never cast more than 2 heals a day

[solar tendon]

what level is the one shot

[rapid wagon]

i feel as though the casting of spells can be done with a bit of theatre and clever use of mundane materials; and the damage with your strikes can be deceptively explained by your use of self enhancement or strike modifying damage; assuming VTT auto explanations arent giving you away

[echo briar]

7

[rapid wagon]

i think also choosing which god youre a "cleric" of can really help sell the charlatan choices

[solar tendon]

I think the best option if you just want to use the tanuki feat in the most effective way is to not pretend to be a Cleric, and just play a magic-less priest, in effect hiding your ancestry rather than your class

if you want cleric specifically it's probably druid, and there is some thematic intrigue there as the tanuki also gives you divine spells as primal innate spells

if you want to max the charade, then I think a Charlatan based build is the go big or go home of the concept

[rapid wagon]

oh wait is charlatan a whole dedication?

[solar tendon]

no it's a skill feat that lets you trick onlookers into thinking you cast a spell when you actually used a magic item

[rapid wagon]

ah! that certainly might come in handy

[frank crystal]

So what are hobgoblins deal compared to normal goblins exactly?

[warped orbit]

they are very orderly and hierarchical
which, they were basically made to be soldiers

[sinful gyro]

They were also made from experiments i think?

But yeah, basically very militaristic

[echo briar]

what does the hob even refer to?

[warped orbit]

yeah they were created via magic with the Cantorian Spring

[silver geyser]

So there are basically three larger categorizations of Goblinoid

You've got your Goblins, with their generally manic energy.

They like fire, they like song.

There's your Hobgoblins, which are basically magically altered goblins that breed true.

They also like fire, but are generally interested in a good conquest.

[surreal basin]

Just a holdover term from the inspirations
Playing Hob in old English means to play mischief
So a hobgoblin, purely in terms of the original phrase, are mischievous sprites

[silver geyser]

And then there's Bugbears, who are essentially serial killers.

[surreal basin]

But that’s got very little to do with Pathfinder, whose hobgoblins are essentially entirely based on dnds hobgoblins

[echo briar]

where there non mischievous goblins they needed to distinguish them from?

[silver geyser]

There are the eat a baby goblins, yes.

[surreal basin]

Goblins are just another term for like

Sprites

They’re all mostly interchangeable

As far as modern historians are aware

[frank crystal]

Kinda funny when in dnd and pathfinder they’re the less mischievous more serious minded of the three goblinoids

[surreal basin]

Oh my bad, no actually I got that the wrong way round

Hob comes from the original European term for faeries and shit

(Thus Hobs in ICON)

[frank crystal]

Oh

[frank crystal]

Also neat

[surreal basin]

Yeah sorry this isn’t really relevant

The point is that stuff like gnomes, faeries, goblins

Their folkloric origins are

Muddy

[echo briar]

how does this relate to hobnobber?

[surreal basin]

I have no clue

[echo briar]

which allows you to gather information in half the time

[solar tendon]

to hobnob is to gossip

[echo briar]

where fae really good at Columboing people?

[surreal basin]

Seemingly unrelated
Hobknobing is a real term that basically means to buddy up with people

Which comes from a term which has to do with drinking with people

[sinful gyro]

Which is why we have a biscuit called a hobnob

[surreal basin]

Oh to eat while you’re drinking?

[echo briar]

aren't all British biscuits eaten while you're drinking something?

[frank crystal]

So with starlit sentinel coming out finally my party wants to run an all magical girls game

But admittedly I’m not super into magical girls

What do y’all think would be a good villain for a magic girls one shot?

[echo briar]

anti magic boy

[novel merlin]

Superstition barbarian misogynist

[carmine egret]

hm

[limber comet]

That one Ben 10 villain