and like I enjoy my crunchy tactical combat but I'm not really interested in pure dungeon crawlers
#Pathfinder
thorny berry
solar tendon
I really really like the exploration rules in terms of their initial promise
but they just haven't developed it any further as they've like tripled the number of classes in the game etc
thorny berry
I was pretty excited about rituals as a system when they were first introduced and the idea of like oh sick I can just bolt ritualist on my fighter and have Shit To Do
and then you open that aonprd page and some moths fly out
I kinda have a hypothesis that at one point in early development the skill feat system was meant to be, like, heavily if not exclusively exploration focused
but even if it's where a lot of that lives now (however much there is anyway) you can't dip into it without sacrificing combat options
part of why I kinda like ICON's 'fuck it, it's two different games' approach frankly
turbid dagger
Guys....................
I'm in trouble...............................
PC2 has come, and one of my abomvaults players, one of the less experience ones, has oracle dedication....................................................
So now I need to update PF and Foundry.............................
On oracle................................
I'm gonna cry if I have to go into powershell again so I've been procrastinating
The game's tomorrow..............
surreal basin
Updating foundry won’t change the feats they already have if you just wanna let them keep the legacy dedication iirc
It won’t break
sinful gyro
What's the issue?
warped orbit
Updating foundry won’t change the feats they already have if you just wanna let ...
Yeah
Though this can also be annoying the other way around
turbid dagger
What's the issue?
Updating a Foundry instance thats using Oracle Hosting is a gigantic pain in the dick from what I've read, more or less
More on the technical side of things, I just grouse about it here cuz its PF2e-related
sinful gyro
Oh that oracle
turbid dagger
Oh lol yeah
clever cobalt
https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com/product/491240/Cards--Masks?src=hottest_filte...
Is this from the Blood and Sigils creator?
limber comet
Is this from the Blood and Sigils creator?
Yes!
solar storm
https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/57592/pathfinder-guns-gears-remastered-revea...
@surreal basin I know you’ve been looking for this
surreal basin
OOOO
surreal basin
Ah not really new info per say but confirmation that gunslinger and inventor are getting touched up
It seems like firearms aren’t getting a rework but might be getting new options
solar storm
Yeah it’s a smaller update but I’m glad mechanics are confirmed being updated
warped orbit
Very curious what changes they're gonna get
clever cobalt
Remastered Automaton, and new archetypes as well
limber comet
I wonder what'll happen to Dark Archive then :333
thorny berry
It seems like firearms aren’t getting a rework but might be getting new options
rip to combination weapons
but yeah I'll be curious to see what they do with gunslinger in particular
honestly like 90% of vanguard's problems would be solved if its reload was the not-raise-a-shield thing instead of shove
limber comet
I mean moreso if they'll add new stuff outside of class changes
Considering it looks like g&g is getting some extra bits
warped orbit
wonder if Unstable will get some extra buffs
or just the errata
since with the way Focus Points are changed, Unstable seems a bit worse by comparison
turbid dagger
honestly like 90% of vanguard's problems would be solved if its reload was the n...
That would be fucking so sick
Unbelieveably, crazily sick
Straight from a 5/10 'ughghghhghhghghh I wanna love it so baaaaad' to an 8/10 'HELL YEAH LETS ROLL OURSELVES UP A TAW BOY'
surreal basin
since with the way Focus Points are changed, Unstable seems a bit worse by compa...
So the thing I hope they look at with unstable
Is that you only have one “charge” of it
So as it stands unstable abilities need to be treated as once per fight
surreal basin
Yeah I still think that’s a little silly personally
That’s still a 75 percent chance you only get to use one unstable ability in a fight
solar tendon
yeah
surreal basin
Which would be fine if unstable abilities were really good but they’re budgeted the same as a focus spell
solar tendon
I liked how inventors+ did it
surreal basin
Maybe if you could roll unstable again as an action and if you succeed you get the charge back or smth
solar tendon
which is that the dc scales by how many unstable actions you have but gets reduced temporarily if you succeed
but yeah I misread Alaen's message
echo briar
So, in SF2, you need feats in order to craft: programs, pharmaceuticals, magic equipment and tech equipment, in addition to any snares or alchemical items you may want to craft from PF2. I feel like this is way too much
In PF2, its just 3, and like 90% of the time its just magical crafting. but in SF2, it feels like 2 (magic and tech), 3 (pharmaceuticals) are necessary for someone who wants to craft to take.
and hybrid items can't be crafted at all now, and when that ability is added, it probably requires both tech and magic crafting at minimum, and may need another feat
vital kiln
Is the Gyrojet Pistol any good? I know Shove and Trip are some of the better weapon qualities in Pathfinder, and having them both on a ranged option seems quite decent.
surreal basin
and hybrid items can't be crafted at all now, and when that ability is added, it...
Can they not? I was under the impression that it would be doable with the tech and magic crafting feats
echo briar
I don't think so, but maybe I am missing something
surreal basin
I mean they allow you to make, respectively, items with the tech and magic tags
Which they have both
So I can’t see what would be restricting you
I’d say the feats are fine though given that it’s essentially only one extra one
Since pharma is roughly analogous to alchemical
echo briar
but I think the worst part about the feats is that the level 1 fabricator feat makes all but programing and magic seemingly unnecessary, as that only calls out your inability to craft magic items without the feat
surreal basin
Honestly I think it might make some sense to phase crafting as a skill out in favor of using computers for fabrication
echo briar
it also makes the entire crafting skill irrelevant outside of meeting the prerequisites for magic crafting, and if you get stranded without a printer
surreal basin
I was really surprised to see normal crafting was included at all
ocean cobalt
i looked into this a while back bc those rules caught my eye
sinful gyro
Seem to me like something the full GM core book would expand upon tbh
ocean cobalt
so the thing is. its very possible that you don't actually need tech crafting to make tech items bc the only thing that says you do is the feat tech crafting which is mentioned nowhere else and according to the fabricator feat, computers skill, and the tech trait itself anyone can do it
however this is not super explained
ocean cobalt
Seem to me like something the full GM core book would expand upon tbh
yeah probably but we know what these rules look like way more than those rules
sinful gyro
Sure, I'm just saying the reason it may not work well is because it may not be complete
ocean cobalt
I was really surprised to see normal crafting was included at all
this is the part that makes things messy, bc theres both the sf stuff like fabricator/programmer/computers crafting in general, augmentations pharmeceutical crafting and machine magic; and also like. the magical crafting feat, separately
(alchemical, etc etc)
ocean cobalt
Sure, I'm just saying the reason it may not work well is because it may not be c...
this is broadly true of the playtest
llike not to say the playtest doesnt work well or isnt fun bc it does and is but like, its a beta finding things that dont work is what its for
sinful gyro
For sure
fossil temple
Any lv1 non magical item people sleep on?
echo briar
rubbing kit
fossil temple
thank!
limber comet
You can also make hl1 banging noises with it
warped orbit
Crowbar is useful
though shenanigans, our party that got through AV has an adamantine crowbar btw
clever cobalt
How does the Magical Girl archetype look?>
warped orbit
you can apparently transform once per hour, and it gives you a bunch of extra powers
one of them is apparently letting you use your weapon to attack at range, but with reduced damage die
limber comet
The Okaiyo Ocean is like my number 1 location that's not a continent/inner sea region that I wanna learn about
Arcadia, Irrisen, The Darklands, and the Okaiyo Ocean are places I really wanna know about
surreal basin
Also
Reminder for the starfinder playtest
They showed in the original 2e playtest that for this kinda thing they’re willing to make real big changes
clever cobalt
Arcadia, Irrisen, The Darklands, and the Okaiyo Ocean are places I really wanna ...
also, Casmaron
A whole continent we know next to nothing about
like Arcadia ig
limber comet
Yes but those are the places I'm personally interested in
clever cobalt
fair
unlike Arcadia, Casmaron is also like
there
It borders Avistan
there isn't an ocean between them
trail nova
Yeah, Casmaron being a giant blank slate is so annoying because it's remarkably close to really filled in areas.
clever cobalt
Yeah, and metaplot-relevant entities exist there
like Kelesh and Vidria
which we also know very little about
trail nova
Yeah, Kelesh being a giant mildly Mongol fluffed area is super obnoxious.
clever cobalt
It's just weird we haven't gotten much about the continent, even in 1e
clever cobalt
Yeah, Kelesh being a giant mildly Mongol fluffed area is super obnoxious.
I think it's more Persian and/or Arabic
trail nova
That's fair, I thought they had more "master horse people" vibes than they seem to.
silver geyser
To be fair to Casmoran, I think the AP that gets the closest to it geographically is Kingmaker.
And I'm not gonna lie, there's more interesting things to get into in that area.
heavy mesa
Kelesh is supposed to be persia iirc
Or the ottoman empire
Casmaron, the continent, has a mongol fluffed area in Distant Lands
trail nova
To be fair to Casmoran, I think the AP that gets the closest to it geographicall...
War For the Crown gets a few miles away from the Kelesh border with a plot that includes Taldan-Kelish relations as an element.
I’ve done too much digging on this topic given my goal of justifying a Eutropia/Kelish? Princess political marriage to let Taldor focus on issues in Avistan. I really should write that fanfic at some point.
echo briar
If I wanted a earth gun (so early 1900s) in PF2, would it be easier to reflavor a PF2 weapon or steal from SF2
solar tendon
depends if you want a bolt action rifle or a semi automatic pistol or a fully automatic submachinegun in that time period
sinful gyro
^
solar tendon
although I think even for a manually operated firearms being able to reload with a clip is starfinder tech for guns
turbid dagger
Real talk, for a bolt action rifle
You could take an arquebus and give it Capacity (whatever) of your choice with no balance considerations
As Capacity is wholly a flavor trait on two handed guns
solar tendon
capacity weapons are individually reloaded though
which isn't really a balance thing like you say but just raw
I guess technically clip/speedloader could be a valid gadget item?
actually technically speaking like true bolt action repeating rifles are like two stages ahead of pf2e
as pf2e is just before revolver and early repeating rifles like lever/pump actions
keen raptor
Air repeaters take magazines, but that's about the closest you're going to get to a modern firearm with detachable mags.
keen raptor
You could also flavor a pepperbox into a regular single action revolver I guess
turbid dagger
That one capacity pistol that always shows up in dual builds reads as a revolver to me
keen raptor
The slide pistol? That'd work with some flavoring as well.
unborn rain
If I was doing 20th century guns in pf2e, I'd probably make them a flavoured magic item instead of a weapon
As the damage they'd do is probably above a normal weapon
It'd also allow you do a like, automatic weapon by making it a area attack
surreal basin
That one capacity pistol that always shows up in dual builds reads as a revolver...
Sadly cannot dual wield them but otherwise yes
turbid dagger
It'd also allow you do a like, automatic weapon by making it a area attack
SF2e notably has autofire rules for mundane weapons
But the way I see it
If a bow and an arquebus do the same damage
An arquebus and a mosin nagant or AR15 probably do also
warped orbit
Sadly cannot dual wield them but otherwise yes
Slide pistols?
You definitely can
solar tendon
no smokeless powder is a lot better than black powder
like black powder firearms commonly had what would now be considered quite large bore sizes and a modern weapon of the same bore size is like, anti materiel stuff
turbid dagger
I'm aware, like
I DO know that modern guns shoot a lot better than a musket
But PF largely seems to not care about 'this weapon has better technology so does more damage'
keen raptor
New character idea: alchemist trying to improve black powder and invents smokeless powder 
turbid dagger
New character idea: alchemist trying to improve black powder and invents smokele...
Solid idea for a weapon innovation inventor!
Oh I didnt see Alchemist
That also works!
keen raptor
Either works, yeah
turbid dagger
On a whole different tangent-
I'm a little sad theres no dual wielding magus style
I'm not sure how you'd balance it but
For some reason I'm entranced by the idea
(Totally not because I'm listening to Rellana's theme from Elden Ring on loop right now)
three action activity thats double slice and spellstrike combined 👀
warped orbit
considering the action econ there, that might be fine honestly
turbid dagger
Just
Do not ever let yourself stay in melee with that guy
unborn rain
I'm aware, like
I DO know that modern guns shoot a lot better than a musket
But ...
I think it's more, an Archer in the Pathfinder universe is just fantasy strong. Like if the average archer in Pathfinder is a Welsh/English Longbowmen and the muskets are just normal for era, the damage difference actually makes sense
surreal basin
Slide pistols?
You definitely can
Doesn’t capacity need a free hand to switch barrels
Oh no you don’t
Wild
Alright then
warped orbit
it specifically doesn't
that's most of the point of capacity
since it's still a 1:1 reload anyway
surreal basin
Right yeah my b
solar tendon
yeah the one handed thing does imply single action revolvers exist
(honestly I feel like more advanced firearms should just exist and be higher level items like that system exists for a reason)
(you could even make them less property enchantable, like their first slot or so is permanently occupied)
you could even make them start at +1 and striking equivalent stats
cause you would still need a +2 enchantment to improve a +1 item bonus
the system is already prepared for it!!! just do it!!
guns should be way more expensive than a level 0 item anyway!!!
turbid dagger
That runs into the problem of Gunslinger not being able to get off the ground at level 1
Specifically that last line, the rest makes sense
solar tendon
I mean like
keeping the shit guns we have now as the ones that have been economy of scaled down to regular weapon level if you have access
but around level 4/5 you have cutting edge or custom pieces that are effectively magic items
there's actually already a slight example of making a gun better at being a gun as a magic item! the liar's gun!
it's kinda bad because it's based on a pepperbox(d4 damage dice) but it has the ability to fire every barrel at once to do an aoe attack
which, magic item, so no property runes, but using that budget to make it better at doing Gun Things in a balanced way. It Already Exists
turbid dagger
There's also this for 'high tech device that is functionally runed up', though its like, SF2e levels of high tech https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1751
warped orbit
there are also the star guns
though all the ones we have are unique artifact level items
unfortunatel
turbid dagger
Aren't Star Guns just Straight Magic
solar tendon
yeah they're like wandblasters that are a weapon of choice on arcadia
rapid wagon
first combat after
transition to 2e
the damage is BIG
i went down, a couple other characters got badly injured
solar storm
crits?
stuck bane
Running more stolen fate tonight, gonna get into using the influence subsystem. I’m both excited and nervous
Running abomination vaults was a lot of combat/exploration with occasional bouts of talking with npcs, whereas this’ll be the opposite
rapid wagon
crits?
yeah, stable hand was in fact an evil cultist who asked us to come help him behind the stable with lifting a broken wagon. We did, he then shanked me while we were helping, resulting in like back to back crits
then some kunobozu jumped out of the wagon during the surprise round
we managed to recover from the surprise and come out and top
but he definitely got enough shots in to drop me on the following round
rapid wagon
i was laughing despite getting downed because my following fort saves against poisons and stuff were repeat critical successes
it was my own revenge xD
cyan raven
yeah, stable hand was in fact an evil cultist who asked us to come help him behi...
in 1e that encounter has save or dies! i gmed it! so funny
echo briar
More SF2 playtest feedback, albeit from one of the other people in the group. multiple hands definitely need something more
His suggestion is the ability to swap hands as a free action, but only at the start of your turn
so in any given turn, you have the same two active hands as everyone else, but you get much more flexability turn to turn
eager mountain
solar storm
What's the context for this?
vast burrow
I hope that in Divine Mysteries the Empyreal Lords and Monitor Demigods are given the same respect as Archdevils, Demon Lords, and Horsemen
Like at least separate them into their own categories per realm 😭
Like the seven Guardian Angels of Heaven, the four Deva Kings of Nirvana, etc.
eager mountain
What's the context for this?
just stuff I saw on the starfinder discord is all
eager mountain
What's the context for this?
uhhh, unless you mean about the reptoids
solar storm
No that's what I was wondering about
eager mountain
No that's what I was wondering about
oh thier not doing retpoids anymore becuase of antisemetic conspiracy theory nonsense
and not wanting to platofmr that
turbid dagger
I had a really good session of Abomvaults tonight, feeling good
We finally got too ||Otari himself||
It was a real cool moment, my skin was tingling because the module did this REALLY FUCKING COOL thing of ||having the Otari town theme play in the room where you find his body||
I was the GM and its the most emotional I've felt doing RPGs for some time
rapid wagon
in 1e that encounter has save or dies! i gmed it! so funny
The best part was one of our sillier members was the first to correctly guess it was a trap, said so, but couldn't detect what was off about the situation exactly. They managed to not get caught by surprise
eager mountain
I had a really good session of Abomvaults tonight, feeling good
We finally got t...
I KNOW RIGHT
same
it was great
we reached that last session too
eager mountain
I had a really good session of Abomvaults tonight, feeling good
We finally got t...
its a similar thing to how when you find Azrenae's secret lab and the ||goblin in the tube|| playts a slower shorter version of Get Beaked
just the little zylaphone at the begning
also get beaked is probably some of my favorite boss music
clever cobalt
Martial class, and yes
echo briar
How optimized is everyone else?
eager mountain
clever cobalt
How optimized is everyone else?
No clue yet
solar storm
I've never had this work so well haha
warped orbit
frank crystal
Oh Tian Xia is out?
sinful gyro
Ye
frank crystal
Radical
keen raptor
Just the physical though. The PDF comes out in around 10 days IIRC.
warped orbit
Oh Tian Xia is out?
Some people have it already
warped orbit
Yeah just the usual subscription shipping early
But yeah what I've heard of Starlit Sentinel so far is pretty good
frank crystal
What’s it like?
warped orbit
It does have one wrinkle of potentially holding up the game because they will always want to wait an hour to have their transformation back
frank crystal
Is their transformation like a stance then?
keen raptor
Yeah just the usual subscription shipping early
Just subscriptions, or is it available off subscription as well? I ordered my physical copy on Wednesday and the site didn't have it marked as a pre-order.
warped orbit
It's usually the subscription books
And IIRC when your subscription ships you also usually get access to the PDF early
keen raptor
I've been ordering books individually because I mostly care about the books that are relevant to my current and planned characters.
I'm mainly interested in the Tian Xia character guide because my current character is a Kitsune and I want to see what additions they get.
(as much as I love Kitsune, a lot of their ancestry feats are pretty mediocre)
fossil temple
Is the Operative is the Starfinder 2e Fighter?
surreal basin
id consider it more like ranger
fossil temple
True, but more as in, the best/most flexible martial
echo briar
Currently yea
fossil temple
Interesting
fossil temple
Gunslinger crawled
So Starfinder could rocket jump
surreal basin
god gunslinger please be getting a rework
sinful gyro
Is the Operative is the Starfinder 2e Fighter?
It scales like a fighter but is designed different from it and the gunslinger
Hair trigger is nuts though, I'm expecting it to get nerfed
warped orbit
Is the Operative is the Starfinder 2e Fighter?
yeah basically
fossil temple
god gunslinger please be getting a rework
No , you will keep the Vanguard (designed to be close quarters in theory, but work bests with the sniper gun) AND YOU WILL LIKE IT /j
echo briar
Also, what’s everyone’s thoughts on changing some actions in SF2? One idea I really like is that currently cover is too good and leads to static combats, so what if whenever you take cover, you become off guard to attacks where you don’t benefit from cover. The problem is that it could mess up compatibility when the same action does different things in the two games
sinful gyro
I haven't really experienced that tbh
fossil temple
Another thing it can work is cover having HP
you can only get cover behind the table for so long
echo briar
Cover does have hp, it’s just that a wood wall has like 10 hardness
sinful gyro
Yeah the hardness values probably need tweaking in sf2e
echo briar
A level 1 missile deals 9 damage on a hit
sinful gyro
When I've had enemies or allies take cover though, they've always moved to flank ye
Or use other effects
surreal basin
yeah i disagree with it encouraging a static gameplay any more than the melee focused base game
sinful gyro
That's why the Operative gets bonus movement speed and mobile reload
fossil temple
Just rush towards the cover and cleave your enemies, easy /j
surreal basin
idk, ill be playtesting it today though
sinful gyro
Cosmic birthday?
fossil temple
idk, ill be playtesting it today though
Do tell me your experience
echo briar
The current problem from my experience is that flanking isn’t currently worth leaving cover for
sinful gyro
I mean, if the enemy is in cover, it's worth +4 to hit sometimes
surreal basin
is that actually true or just a fallacy you've fallen in for
i guess is my question
echo briar
That’s just my and some others experience. The point of playtesting is to see where the community as a whole is at
surreal basin
Yes
warped orbit
What’s it like?
having looked at the video now
- dedication; transform 1/hour for 1a, most of your features only work while transformed. While transformed get a +1 status on damage rolls and you can make ranged Strikes using your weapon using your melee modifier, 1d4 at 60 ft range inherits your runes
- at 4; gain a choice of one of two focus spells, can take the feat again to get the other (this archetype also has no level 6 feat, so with FA you likely will do that); one spell is basically 2a Lay on Hands but at range, healing 8 HP per level basically. Can also counteract possession. The other spell deals 1d10 per level damage in a 30 ft Line or 15 ft Cone with a basic save. Damage type, Aoe Shape, and save type, are determined by your Zodiac
- at 8; 2a to Demoralize all enemies within 30 ft. On a success, targets are also dazzled for a minute, and Blinded for a round on crit. Reduced to 1a if you do it immediately after transforming
- at 10; 1a while adjacent to an ally to plunge your weapon into their heart and pull it out again, they are unharmed and your weapons gains an elemental weapon rune based on what you both think represents your relationship best. The rune lasts for your transformation and counts against your maximum as normal (boo). At 16th, the rune becomes Greater
- at 12; Breath of Life as an innate spell 1/day while transformed, reverts your transformation when you use it.
- at 14; fly speed equal to land speed
the biggest thing I think is that this is the first ranged Str based attack available to players
silver geyser
That 10th level one is rad
frank crystal
what about thrown weapons?
warped orbit
still use Dex for the attack
warped orbit
That 10th level one is *rad*
you do the Utena thing 😛
I am not that thrilled about all the rune adders being limited by your weapons normal max now though
this happened to Champion's weapon ally too
surreal basin
Yeah the problem is I can see being allowed to add them on top as too powerful
rotund geode
Yeah the problem is I can see being allowed to add them on top as too powerful
yeah but not being allowed to stack them basically just means your class feature gets blanked if you have enough money to just... buy it yourself
novel merlin
The flexibility is also nice though because you can out elemental weaknesses
solar tendon
i feel like stuff being negated by infinite money is like
well when are you going to have infinite money
especially since its not like its something the system is vague about, it directly says how much stuff you should have at any given time
warped orbit
it's more of a grip with the Champion blessings for me
I don't really like that they are just money savers now
Blessed Shield is IMO much less cool than the old Shield Ally
surreal basin
well when are you going to have infinite money
That’s fair but it feels bad to know your features could be replicated with money
See: old alchemist
Who was essentially just a pile of money
echo briar
If there was a class that had no class features other than like caster proficiency’s and extra money, how much money would it take for them to be a balanced class?
Or in other words, what is the monetary value of a class?
surreal basin
That’s not really my point tbh
rustic cape
Aye, PF2e generally locks certain effects far away from what WBL can achieve
And if your class doesn’t have access to any of those effects
It may not feel good
surreal basin
I do think that “you get runes” is generally not a good feature
Not in terms of balance but in terms of design and feeling good
echo briar
That’s not really my point tbh
This was not a response to you, but a different thought that popped into my head
warped orbit
If there was a class that had no class features other than like caster proficien...
can they use scrolls?
surreal basin
An extra party member is worth more than infinite money lol
echo briar
can they use scrolls?
Trick magic item
surreal basin
I don’t think that could ever be balanced
warped orbit
with enough scrolls, you could honestly probably get by
but you'd still just be a discount Cleric or Bard
rustic cape
I think it could be balanced but it would bore a lot of people
surreal basin
gestures at old alch yeah
rustic cape
FWIW I think it’s largely good to have certain effects be locked to classes rather than WBL
warped orbit
For some deities I think yes
thorny berry
but you'd still just be a discount Cleric or Bard
I mean with enough scrolls you'd be the best caster in the game
infinite top level slots? Yes please
surreal basin
well thatd be if you could find somewhere to sell you them lol
starting my playtest for the starfinder test
surreal basin
is there an action that would cover vaulting over chest high walls?
solar storm
My gut ruling is that its difficult terrain if you have a hand free
sinful gyro
Yeah that works
worthy stump
i think that's a reasonable way to handle it, yeah
warped orbit
is there an action that would cover vaulting over chest high walls?
I'd probably do it as a Tumble personally, treating the cover as difficult terrain
surreal basin
Hmm
I’m kinda thinking so far that physical life should be a real skill and life science should replace nature
echo briar
The problem with life science is what do you use to RK on like fey or primal magic
Nature makes sense not as like just plants as stuff, but as knowledge of things relating to the primal tradition (which includes plants and stuff)
surreal basin
That’s…. Fair
surreal basin
Okay: I’ve finished shards of a glass planet
limber comet
Thinking about Iblydos
Nothing in particular
Just wondering how some monsters would translate to a mythic greek type setting
Oh fuck wait, with mythic rules we might get Iblydos
solar thorn
oh my god
my players ||killed the abomination vaults froghemoth|| without a player death
frankly astounding, even if they're a level higher than the floor
warped orbit
nice
solar thorn
watching 3 critical hits in a row is spooky, but the players wised up and either left the range or started activating concealment effects that saved their asses
warped orbit
did they use ||the slowed weakness on it?||
solar thorn
Yeah, the ranger managed a nat 20 on a recall check, probably saved their asses
vast burrow
They're here
Review copies have been sent out for the Tian Xia Character Guide(credit to How It's Played's video)
vast burrow
Also Tsukumogamis finally means Inteligent Weapon characters!!
Or, well, as close as we'll probably get to having one
I guess Yaoguai are close too
Damn there's a lot of content here wow, even the Inventors and Summoners got some of their own stuff
upbeat ridge
Uh, have we seen what exactly the new base weapons are?
limber comet
Summoners got new stuff???
vast burrow
Yep, at least one new feat
You do a cool pose with your Eidolon and through qi harmony or yoga or something it improves healing in the area around you
I'm more surprised about Inventors tbh
They got a dual flying kick combo with their construct companions
And I assume other things, the overview that How It's Played gave wasn't thorough, just the highlights
echo briar
So apparently, WotI is more expensive than Paizo said a book of its page count should be. Do you think this is a price increase for all future books, or does WotI have something unique that makes it more expensive?
clever cobalt
I imagine it's a very "heavy" book in terms of lore and impact
echo briar
But does that lead to higher costs?
clever cobalt
no clue, that's just my guess
echo briar
Do we know how many writers are on WotI? That seems like a likely culprit
fossil temple
Probably the amount of art?
Or it can be Wotl/Matel inflating the prices because they know the D&D players will buy it anyway
echo briar
Why would DnD players buy a pathfinder book?
fossil temple
I miss-read sorry
Wotl i read as Wizard of the coast facepaw
But i imagine it can be the amount of pages and amount of art
fossil temple
They got a dual flying kick combo with their construct companions
kamen rider...
turbid dagger
4 dex/3 str fighter that uses Double Slice/Thrower with Tamchal Chakrams
Is this anything gang
The Deadly appeals to me
ocean cobalt
pathfinder wrath of the ighteous
turbid dagger
ocean cobalt
hunted shot has entered the chat
ocean cobalt
4 dex/3 str fighter that uses Double Slice/Thrower with Tamchal Chakrams
Is this...
irt
turbid dagger
Dropping kayfabe I don't know what your last three posts mean 😔
solar tendon
in regard to
ocean cobalt
"hunted shot has entered the chat" [i realize i didn't include the thing i was responding to] "irt (attached post)"
solar tendon
but yeah I do think chakram double slice/throw is very cool
ocean cobalt
so, chakram hunted shot
solar tendon
though there's also rebounding toss
so you have options
reasonable to take both tbf
ocean cobalt
wrath of the ighteous is me (mis-(?))interpreting what WotI stands for
solar tendon
yo what
ocean cobalt
because i dont know what it is
turbid dagger
WotI is War Of The Immortals
ocean cobalt
oh i see
turbid dagger
Mhm lol
Agile Grace/Graceful Poise tamchals might be a fun high level fighter build though
ocean cobalt
wait hold up it's war of the immortals?
solar tendon
rebounding toss has the advantage of being level 2 and in class
turbid dagger
Nope, seems it is in fact just War Of Immortals
solar tendon
but it throws off picking up dual weapon warrior
so I guess retrain if you play before level 4? hm
turbid dagger
TBH we can kind of assume free archetype nowadays, right?
At least in the circles I'm in
I get that yknow, not everyone does it
But it does seem like a majority when I've been looking for games
turbid dagger
The graceful poise/agile grace idea is also fun cuz you can take this alongside it
Actual machine gun
ocean cobalt
fighter for deadly right
if you're specifically critfishing it's probably better to have one activity with a higher action cost and no MAP than a bunch of normal hits
solar tendon
if it wasn't for flourish it would be 0/0/-4/-8
turbid dagger
Oh drat so it is
What an odd thing to have on Dual Weapon Warrior
So yeah the play would be to stick to double slice to maximize chances of the deadly going off
warped orbit
Double Slice isn't a Flourish
so you can go Double Slice into Two Weapon Flurry/Twin Takedown
Hunted Shot also doesn't work for most thrown weapons, since it only works for ranged weapons with Reload 0
ocean cobalt
hunted shot for the thrown but yea
oh i never noticed the reload specification
wild
ig that makes sense tho
warped orbit
Twin Takedown also only requires you wield melee weapons, it doesn't require the Strike to be melee
so it works for any thrown weapon that is melee
ocean cobalt
thrown weapons are ranged weapons when they are ranged
thats why dual thrower exists
warped orbit
when you make the Strike, yes
ocean cobalt
You can throw this weapon as a ranged attack; it is a ranged weapon when thrown
dual thrower probably wouldnt be there if it wasnt like that
hmm
warped orbit
I think it's ambiguous enough, but eh
but that would also mean that thrown Ranger can use neither of them
unless you use shuriken I guess
ocean cobalt
high level thrown build idea, inventor with ranger MC
warped orbit
it's kinda annoying how often thrown gets shafted
turbid dagger
If I'm being honest
I've always had trouble vibing with flurry ranger
Cuz like
Fighter more or less gets the same thing but its first hit is also better
And there's no action buy in
A universal +2 translates to better MAP
Flurry comes out ahead with the third MAP attack but hm
ocean cobalt
construct companion for (effectively) FA movement, shuriken with hunted shot + overdrive
you can maybe do weapon innovator so one of your shurikens is extra special
turbid dagger
(And, you can strike then double slice to get better third hit MAP than a flurry ranger 👀)
warped orbit
If I'm being honest
I've always had trouble vibing with flurry ranger
Cuz like
F...
you need to make like 4+ attacks for Flurry to really work
I do have a dual throwing Ranger vaguely planned out though
ocean cobalt
i think flurry ranger gets ahead bc it only has to spend two actions to make two striked on t1 to apply prey
also when the thing dies but you can usually count on something you're putting prey on lasting through at least one round
they should really make a class that goes all-in on the "one action to make two strikes" thing so you don't even have to apply prey tho
you could even reuse the word flurry
warped orbit
yeah fortunately there is the Mystic Warrior archetype in Tian Xia now 😛
ocean cobalt
cant believe it took them 6 years to come up with a class like that
it's so convenient how they use unarmed strikes too so you can have a variety of weapons for different situation and only have to pay for 1x handwraps. im glad they got around to it
turbid dagger
It does tickle me that Monk JUST had its level 10 flurry feat nerfed
And now Mystic Warrior's DEDICATION is coming with a flurry equivalent with no recharge
warped orbit
yep
on the dedication no less, I believe
and finally a way to share runes between handwraps and weapon
novel merlin
Mystic warrior is quite a bit harder to build around than flurry
turbid dagger
Yeah, its one weapon and one unarmed strike
Which.............. is what my one monk character is already doing
ocean cobalt
say what you will but i am glad they are at long last making dedication feats like worthy of taking a feat
flurry is definitely worth more than one level 2 feat but like yk
turbid dagger
It also gives you Powerful Fist so like
You've already got a Free Hand Blunt Shortsword to make the second hit with even if you don't have any other fun unarmed attacks
warped orbit
say what you will but i am glad they are at long last making dedication feats li...
I do like that dedications are getting more oomph
warped orbit
It also gives you Powerful Fist so like
You've already got a Free Hand Blunt Sho...
which is like, totally fine tbh
a shortsword is a perfectly serviceable "off-hand"
and agile too
ocean cobalt
it's very good, is i think the point he's making
turbid dagger
Yes!
ocean cobalt
i sorta wish powerful fist were like an ath/acr skill feat honestly
turbid dagger
I was kind of replying to Turtle saying its hard to build around
The main concern is runing both up but Alaen just said that may no longer be an issue?
warped orbit
it's very good, is i think the point he's making
yeah I was agreeing
warped orbit
I was kind of replying to Turtle saying its hard to build around
The main concer...
they have a feat at 6 that shares any runes on your handwraps with your weapon AIUI
novel merlin
I was kind of replying to Turtle saying its hard to build around
The main concer...
If you're a weapon monk then the feat is 100% made for you already
warped orbit
needs to be 1h though, of course
turbid dagger
Damn, there goes my bo staff/thlipit build 😔
novel merlin
It's a bit tougher with like a fighter where you're not getting full proficiency with one, or barbarian where you don't want agile
Probably solid on Rangers, but they already get some flurry equivalent
ocean cobalt
i sorta wish powerful fist were like an ath/acr skill feat honestly
like it really isnt so powerful as to be something that needs to only be accessible to monks
warped orbit
needs to be 1h though, of course
okay it's apparently slightly more broad, but probably still won't work for Bo staff unfortunately
it's any weapon that is either one handed, agile, or finesse
it also gives your fist the parry trait apparently
ocean cobalt
it's any weapon that is either one handed, agile, or finesse
that means it works for dancer's spear
winning
turbid dagger
huh
I was thinking of the big uses of fist parry and using a twohanded finesse weapon and still getting parry is............. one
warped orbit
they have a feat at 6 that shares any runes on your handwraps with your weapon A...
oh and it also gets the extra benefit
when you hit with fist, target is offguard to your next weapon attack, and vice versa
turbid dagger
THATS
ocean cobalt
that's really good
turbid dagger
Okay yeah it'll be good with flurry ranger
ocean cobalt
is that better or worse than stumbling swing
turbid dagger
Does the Weird Flurry have the usual 'apply precision only once' caveat
warped orbit
they also get a few extra actions as feats
one is apparently a 2a activity that's a sword beam-esque attack, allowing you to attack at 60 ft range with your weapon
not sure if there's a CD or anything on that
warped orbit
Does the Weird Flurry have the usual 'apply precision only once' caveat
not sure
turbid dagger
It probably does but I can hope
warped orbit
would be very sick for Thief if it doesn't
turbid dagger
Also- do you happen to know any of the flavor? That's the big thing I think
ocean cobalt
would be very sick for Thief if it doesn't
why thief specifically
isnt the dex just normal damage
warped orbit
yeah but Sneak Attack
ocean cobalt
sure but thats every rogue
turbid dagger
Fist is finesse, the valid weapons are finesse, you can set up flat footed nicely
warped orbit
yeah it being very finesse friendly is always an easy setup for Thief IMO
warped orbit
Also- do you happen to know any of the flavor? That's the big thing I think
not much
it's called Spirit Warrior, I don't know if that's like an established thing in PF lore already
turbid dagger
It means you can roll up on a guy who isnt flat footed, hit them once, hit them again and do get flat footed
Like better Twin Feint
warped orbit
they do also get that one feat that lets them completely block an attack 1/10 min, by breaking the weapon
and then you immediately draw a new weapon as part of it
ocean cobalt
means w dancer's spear you can go spear -> fist -> (AoO) spear and have the last two of those be flat footed
warped orbit
they do also get that one feat that lets them completely block an attack 1/10 mi...
which AIUI since your runes are on your handwraps, is barely a downside
ocean cobalt
best way to exploit this is to have both reactive strike (obviously) and sneak attack from somewhere
which is a tall order but could be neat
hmm
warped orbit
I haven't seen much details about that one, but there is apparently a Fan Dancer archetype
ocean cobalt
fighter dedication, reactive striker, something else puts you at l6 so mystic warrior + flat footed puts you at l10
which is normal level 10 stuff by that point
warped orbit
Rogue doesn't need Reactive as much IMO, they can just pick up Opportune Backstab
warped orbit
Gang Up + Opportune Backstab + Preparation
is the usual setup
and it's pretty damn strong lmao, especially with reach
ocean cobalt
gang up kinda makes the mystic warrior switch hitter flurry thing less relevant doesnt it
or at least that one feat, which is basically fine
bc youd have to be within 5 to get a fist off anyway probably
warped orbit
You need it less definitely
I'd probably still take it as team support of nothing else
ocean cobalt
the mystic warrior thing?
i dont see how thats a team benefit it seems like itd only effect you
ocean cobalt
oh yeah i mean at that point just do a normal spear rogue and drop mystic warrior entirely
hm unless there's some way to get 10 foot unarmed strikes ig
rustic cape
Do we have any idea when the Tian Xia book options will be on Foundry/Pathbuilder?
echo briar
probably the day after if not the same day
turbid dagger
So other than unconventional weaponry, basically the only way to get prof in a Repeating Hand Crossbow is Archer Dedication, right?
(Server I'm on has ruled that since RHCs are not prevalent in another culture, they can't be Unconventional Weaponried)
(And I don't wanna use an air repeater on my thaum 😭 😭 😭)
solar tendon
cause drow got thanos snapped?
turbid dagger
That may have factored into it, though I think even then RHCs just aren't like
Ubiquitous
To drow, their main thing is regular hand crossbows right?
solar tendon
there's a feat in their archetype for improving hand crossbow reloading
turbid dagger
Oh huh
I still dont think that'd fly but neat
novel merlin
Shootist archetype
solar tendon
mm shame
turbid dagger
This also made me aware of uh
SHOOTISTS BANDOLIERS
GACK
This is crazy good for a 1 GP item
warped orbit
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=937
yeah it's for use with the Drow Shootist archetype
turbid dagger
Oh yeah, I did see that
But even without thats still a whole extra action off repeating reloads forever, functionally
If you are going through four RHC clips in one fight you are here
Anyway I am currently seeing what the drow situation is on that server, in the hopes that I can give my thaum the blicky
Update: They said its good gamers 👀
Rohan Dolma Is Getting His Glock
My crossbow got a switch on it
solar tendon
nintendo switch?
turbid dagger
solar tendon
ohhhh
vast burrow
Tanuki are so fucking funny
Their heritages are based on personality traits but it's based on their Tanuki definitons so Courageous Tanuki are great at running away, Even-Tempered Tanuki are emotional, and Virtuous Tanuki are alcoholics
I love them so much
limber comet
Make tanuki a base part of every setting
silver geyser
Tanuki are so fucking funny
It's Nimble Crawl time.
vast burrow
The fastest bottle of alcohol in existence
With Kip Up that's a free two stride for one action (and a reaction, and three feats)
Granted that's more investment than something like Sudden Charge, but it is a lot funnier
fossil temple
"Oh yeah! Le's try the Thauma! Mirror adn flanking this rat and show everyone how cool this class is!"
I missed 3 times in a row
turbid dagger
Your punishment for shortening it to thauma instead of thaum alas 😔
thorny berry
how's mirror been in practice? I feel like I've never quite 'gotten' it besides 'well okay you can spend one action for free off guard I guess but couldn't you probably get that anyway'
and some edge cases about auras/emanations
warped orbit
It's main use is IMO playing little shell games with positioning
Since once you're hit or move again, you choose which one you are
turbid dagger
Mhm, you can use it to help you flank easy as well as to run away
solar tendon
its also just a free 15ft teleport
cause you can mirror with line of sight and then leave from that position
fossil temple
how's mirror been in practice? I feel like I've never quite 'gotten' it besides ...
Ye what people said, is very gud
Fun lv1 shenanigans :3
Still funny how the giant rats gave us the most work while a giant spider and 5 zombies were way easier
sinful gyro
Yeah seems very good for homebrew games
carmine egret
ooooo
fossil temple
Hello
Wanted to ask, making a lv1 bard
since i have [Courageous Anthem] it is still worth ti to take [Infectious Enthusiasm]?
echo briar
Not really. It’s +1 to will saves or charisma checks, and guidance is probably better for those
fossil temple
Thank ya
echo briar
What AP title is the least accurate?
Like, while there is a flame in quest for the frozen flame, it is in no way shape or form frozen
I’ve only played 4/6ths of age of ashes, but at no point in the parts I’ve played has there been any mention of ashes or ages at all.
I am almost done with stolen fates, but get the gist of what’s going on and ||at no point has anyone stolen any fates. If the hero’s fail some fates will be stolen, but unless there is some giant twist at the end, fates will either never be stolen or at most will be stolen for like a minute during the final boss. A more accurate title would be "soon to be stolen fates"||
Blood lords, outlaws of alkenstar, and agents of edgewatch are 100% accurate though
Strength of thousands more of a saying than a actual fact about the campaign
surreal basin
Extinction curse is really funny
||in that it does refer to some stuff but you won’t know anything about it til the last part of the final book||
solar thorn
Abomination Vaults ||Has a remarkably limited number of true vaults||
echo briar
||but are any of the abominations||
A, does the ruby phoenix have fists, and if so, are the fists themselves ever relevant to the story?
turbid dagger
Abomination Vaults ||Has a remarkably limited number of true vaults||
That's cheating because ||the complex itself is CALLED the abomination vaults, in universe||
turbid dagger
A, does the ruby phoenix have fists, and if so, are the fists themselves ever re...
This is also cheating because the Fist Of The Ruby Phoenix tournament is also an in-universe title
Though ||the ruby phoenix herself does show up, and there are lots of fists||
echo briar
||but can there ever be multiple fists of the ruby phoenix? the plurality of fists could make it misinformation||
dapper tusk
concept: lancer-style Pathfinder campaign
where the PCs are all dragonriders who do giant high level combat on their dragons
but often have to dismount and do stuff as normal humanoids
fossil temple
Me: I should start doing my commissions
Also me: I need to do a quick drawing for my character
Me in the end:
Drum is fun for Orc
solar tendon
I think what I'm confused about is like
'don't monetise or (more recently) monetise through pathfinder infnite' is already how it worked
sinful gyro
I think Gronk is misrepresenting things a bit
And Gronk should also consider what Paizo can actually legally do
solar tendon
like that's why pathbuilder renames half the stuff that comes from a lost omens book
(before pathfinder infinite, you just weren't allowed to monetise stuff that uses pathfinder ip like golarion at all)
sinful gyro
Gronk for example doesn't make the distinction between content that does or doesn't use paizos lore
Which is a big factor here
And Gronk should maybe consider Paizo legally cant keep things the same unless they want to build their company on the pillar of sand which is dnds licencing
solar tendon
it also switches directly from "just don't monetise" to "this is what you have to do to monetise" and equivalates the two
novel merlin
That part is less egregious and the worse part is stuff legally requiring stuff like art commissions which contain paizo IP to go through infinite, which the website isn't built for
This also kills pathfinderwiki
solar tendon
pathfinderwiki isn't monetised I don't think
sinful gyro
Why would it kill art comissions?
solar tendon
if it was, it would have already been in breach
warped orbit
Doesn't the new rules also apply to free stuff?
solar tendon
it would only really affect art commissions that like...include paizo logos or whatever? like if you want the knight of lastwall emblem? idk
sinful gyro
Even then, it's made for and not mass produced
So it wouldn't qualify
The physical element is also not part of the licencing
Cos I can, for example, make a homebrew thing and post it on reddit
novel merlin
Doesn't the new rules also apply to free stuff?
Yeah, this is the issue
sinful gyro
If I were to then package all my homebrew stuff into a pdf and give that to people, that's when it gets tricky
But in no way will this effect art commissions
Source: literally one of the devs telling us this
novel merlin
From what I understand you could not make a 1e -> 2e conversion guide and provide it for free online
solar tendon
and really only to the extent that commissions are generally 'illegal'
if someone commissions like mickey mouse
with white gloves
sinful gyro
Mickey Mouse, the Thaumaturge, striking down the Demon Warner Brothers
trail nova
The big thing this kills is free homebrew that ties into the Golarion setting, and free fan-made tools for character building that don't strip out Pazio IP (doable for 1e, a little harder for 2e, very hard for Starfinder.)
solar tendon
the whole thing just feels very unclear to me
trail nova
For example, if foundry came out today, a PF 2e system for it could not be made by fans without stripping out Pazio IP. The current one has a special license with Pazio, but there was a fair amount of time it was running on CUP.
sinful gyro
The big thing this kills is free homebrew that ties into the Golarion setting, a...
It doesn't though
It limits how that content can be distruibuted
But it doesn't stop it
trail nova
It doesn't though
It forces them onto Infinite, which is an incredibly clumsy platform for anything other than commercial distribution of PDFs. That's close enough to killing it for me.
trail nova
... or I guess it's fine as a forum post/reddit comment, but not fine as a google doc linked in said post.
sinful gyro
The line is unclear for sure
trail nova
Which is really weird. Also, it completely kills any sort of fan tool for Starfinder, because of how much harder it is to pull Pazio IP from the system's names.
sinful gyro
And hey, I'd prefer if it wasn't this way
But there's still a lot of misinfo out there
solar storm
This also kills pathfinderwiki
I don’t think this applies to pathfinderwiki actually - isn’t it licensed under ORC not this?
trail nova
Pathfinder Wiki is fine for the opposite reason - it's not an RPG product, so it can still use FCP.
Pathbuilder is the one under ORC.
novel merlin
Pathbuilder does have a unique agreement with paizo also
solar tendon
does it?
trail nova
Everything I've heard is that they just strip out Pazio IP and use ORC.
So Aldori Duelist is just "duelist" on pathbuilder.
sinful gyro
It wouldn't surprise me if they got a special agreement
novel merlin
I also have more personal gripes with the pathfinder infinite licensing because it gives forever rights to do basically anything with your work to roll20 in addition to paizo.
Mostly because I do not trust roll20 in the slightest
trail nova
But yeah, I'd really love it if they'd just say "free RPG products are fine, paid are not."
warped orbit
So when does it become a product?
sinful gyro
I dunno, that's one of the issues I have
trail nova
I think the second it's not a forum post - so google drive link, pdf link, website, whatever.
trail nova
I kind of think that's what they intended it to be.
My big gripe is the amount of people going "this is all to protect them from the OGL", when it has no bearing besides the "We aren't letting OGL stuff on Infinite anymore." (And maybe the FCP not using OGL? Haven't checked.)
silver geyser
Yeah, looking at things, this is just a nothingburger of a problem. The biggest change is Not Making Golarion Stuff
Which, you know.
Whatever.
That's very much their IP, I get it.
trail nova
Yeah, looking at things, this is just a nothingburger of a problem. The biggest ...
Ehh, I know planned 2e projects that got suddenly dropped because of this.
Who knows how many free digital tools will never get started
echo briar
If they gave people like 6 months to a year of warning, it would probably be fine. The main problem is they have people very little time to prepare
dapper tusk
so you can still make homebrew for the Pathfinder system but not in the Golarion setting?
trail nova
Yes? Amount of legalese needed to have at the end is a big ? - I think most homebrew technically needed an OGL/ORC license stapled on, but nobody did that
sinful gyro
If you use the lore, then you gotta do some things
upbeat ridge
It’s still pretty confusing to me, I’m suprised that ruleslawyer hasn’t made a vid on it yet. I also saw some weird stuff about exclusivity to roll20 too?
Which sucks tbh, foundry is so much better
solar tendon
I think that's just cause roll20 own drivethru etc and therefore run pathfinder infinite
as opposed to anything to do with roll20 (the programme)
upbeat ridge
yeah but like
doesnt this kill every other vtt for pathfinder?
dont you need to publish stuff on infinte only even for free?
solar tendon
practically speaking, Foundry definitely not because that's got it's own agreement and is the primary vtt paizo is doing stuff with
upbeat ridge
yeah but what about like, modules and addons
sinful gyro
I also don't know if stuff like Owlbear etc does system specific things?
upbeat ridge
cant no one update anything anymore?
solar tendon
also practically speaking, publishing on pathfinder infinite is still not publishing on roll20 marketplace - so to the extent that this affects things, roll20 vtt is affected just as much
sinful gyro
Modules and addons would not contain any paizo licenced stuff
upbeat ridge
without publishing to infinte
warped orbit
doesnt this kill every other vtt for pathfinder?
kind of
you can't include any direct content AIUI
so it'd have to be like the D&D Foundry modules, where you need to manually load in content yourself
sinful gyro
Like, do you have a module or addon in mind?
solar tendon
honestly I think in terms of what paizo has said the state of stuff like modules is unclear and ppl can only try and figure it out
upbeat ridge
yeah all this was really badly concieved
sinful gyro
Again, I'd like to know how much of this is legally stuff they have to do
surreal basin
They’re kinda purposefully limited community growth in a period where they need that to not be happening lmao
upbeat ridge
Again, I'd like to know how much of this is legally stuff they have to do
yeah
surreal basin
I heavily doubt they have to restrict things to their proprietary market
upbeat ridge
like of course they cant get sued by hasbro but idk how much of this is just overreaching
like they accidentally fucked over fan translations, which they have came out and said they dont want to do
warped orbit
Again, I'd like to know how much of this is legally stuff they have to do
the main thing I've seen is that mixing ORC and OGL content could be bad for them
and that seems to be the cause for most of this
but it still seems really weird
upbeat ridge
so i guess theyre gonna update things?
surreal basin
As a side note: it is interesting to know that you literally aren’t allowed to use the PDF set dressing
It’s illegal to make your home brew docs look a Paizo book lmao
upbeat ridge
i get why they want to keep things to infinite so they dont give hasbro a chance to sue them but yeah
surreal basin
And apparently always has been
surreal basin
Huh
warped orbit
or contains literally no references to Pathfinder content at all
surreal basin
Wait even without golarion lore?
So like…. If you made a new ancestry, you’d get in trouble because it used the ancestry rules?
novel merlin
It’s still pretty confusing to me, I’m suprised that ruleslawyer hasn’t made a v...
When you publish on pathfinder infinite, both paizo and roll20 get full unrestricted use of your material, that's why they're included in the wording
upbeat ridge
yeah but isnt there also legalese in there that says you cant use it on other vtts?
solar tendon
I think if you don't use the lore then you're not affected by the policy
since ancestry rules are not paizo's ip
so you can instead lisence the text of those rules through the orc
sinful gyro
Not to muddy the water but some people are getting pretty unhinged about this
I just had someone tell me they want to CW for R word action (||I sincerely hope that whoever came up with this ends up in the boiler room of an unspecified creative commons hell, fucked repeatedly by a 1d8 Creative Commons Trident||)
And yes, violent. In fact, I don't think I am violent enough.
Like, my guy, please gain perspective
sinful gyro
Yeah I guess I shouldn't be shocked
Just I'm not the crazy one for thinking that reaction is nuts right?
solar tendon
again roll20 just runs pathfinder infinite, the roll20 vtt isn't getting anything from this
surreal basin
Yeah roll20 is the name of the company
keen raptor
since ancestry rules are not paizo's ip
Out of curiosity, can you still use ancestries from PF in homebrew? Like, can you include, for example, the Ysoki or Kitsune if you strip out the Golarian lore?
sinful gyro
Probably? I don't think Paizo owns those things
solar tendon
ysoki
surreal basin
Yeah you’d have to call them rat folk
solar tendon
aiui is a golarion term
warped orbit
at minimum I feel like they communicated this change pretty badly
surreal basin
Yeah for sure
solar tendon
they really did
keen raptor
That's okay then IMO. As long as you can keep the meat of the system in homebrew, that's fine. Golarian is a Paizo IP and it's their right to allow (or not) people to do what they want with it.
surreal basin
When it comes to stuff like this I mean
Yeah that’s where I’m at with the literal golarion IP separate from the game
Is like…. It’s sad but whatever
trail nova
That's okay then IMO. As long as you can keep the meat of the system in homebrew...
See, the issue to me is that it's doable but annoying for Pathfinder. It's a lot harder for Starfinder, just because there's so much more Pazio IP that's not smoothly translatable everywhere.
vast burrow
I can't believe Spirit Warrior gives no limit Fury of Blows lite for a level 2 dedication feat, ON TOP of the Monk/Martial Artist dedication benefits
warped orbit
Spirit Warrior is looking pretty good yeah
echo briar
BTW, here is the Paizo president promising that the CUP will be publicly submitted for for community feedback, something that never happened
solar tendon
definitely on board with the existing paradigm remaining while expanding commercial use even further than what pathfinder infinite did
trail nova
That’s amazing and basically perfect then.
limber comet
Tbf Paizo is very good at listening to the fans
sinful gyro
Time to release my "50 things they don't tell you about Kobolds in School" homebrew book
- they don't like being asked questions
2-50 are all the mean names they called me
echo briar
God, this is the second game company that I like creating unnecessary negative publicity because of avoidable miscommunications this week
sinful gyro
Well you gotta say who the first one
I doubt this'll make waves tbh, it barely left the paizo fan space
carmine oyster
God, this is the second game company that I like creating unnecessary negative p...
I mean, it's not really miscommunication in this case, they did what they wanted to
echo briar
Well you gotta say who the first one
Civ 7. The big new mechanic was that you change civs throughout the game, and they made it look like Egypt's natural progression was the Songhai, whose only connection to Egypt is both being African which lead to a lot of backlash. However that appears to be a placeholder they never told us about, and the actual progression is to another north African civ that is a reasonable successor to Egypt
carmine oyster
They just overestimated how much the community would tolerate under the guise of reducing OGL vulnerability
carmine oyster
Civ 7. The big new mechanic was that you change civs throughout the game, and th...
Oops, as a dev I can see how that would happen, but I can also see why that would be a Bad Look
sinful gyro
I also saw people get fake made over the first settler being called Founder
But that's just culture war shit so
rustic cape
I can't believe Spirit Warrior gives no limit Fury of Blows lite for a level 2 d...
Wait what
Is this a new thing from Tian Xia?
warped orbit
yeah
it's an archetype about combining weapons and unarmed
any weapon that is either one handed, agile, or finesse, is eligible for it
and the dedication lets you 1a make an attack with your weapon and your fist, following MAP as normal
you also get the usual fist buff to 1d6 and no lethal penalty
rustic cape
Can you use stances with it?
TBH though I feel like that’s fine for a level 2 feat and most dedications are just undertuned
warped orbit
Can you use stances with it?
I'm not sure, but I think no
I believe it needs to be fist specifically
upbeat ridge
Yeah this is great, but isn’t the bs with infinite still gonna happen?
sinful gyro
Probably not?
upbeat ridge
They’re still forbidding ogl from infinite which is understandable
I think that only really fucks over stuff that references DA?
warped orbit
they want to avoid mixing stuff from OGL and ORC
and that's apparently why no OGL stuff is allowed on Infinite
surreal basin
That’s definitely v understandable on their end
upbeat ridge
I thought you couldn’t even use orc either on infinite
surreal basin
I don’t believe that’s the case currently?
Either way they basically just said nothing is going to change from how it is now
upbeat ridge
Either way they basically just said nothing is going to change from how it is no...
Other than no ogl on infinite
And I still think stuff for sf/pf 1e is like super dead?
surreal basin
Which there’s nothing they can do about
upbeat ridge
I’m not sure
surreal basin
It would be super fraught for them to continue to endorse stuff with a license they don’t use anymore
upbeat ridge
Yeah
Can stuff for 1e still update?
Thing is, DA is still ogl and isn’t getting a remaster. So I guess you can’t reference it on infinite?
I’m probably misunderstanding
surreal basin
Have they said it’s not getting a rerelease outright
Cause they’re rereleasing G&G as ORC soon
upbeat ridge
Not sure explicitly?
I think they’ve said that it’s too tied into ogl to get a re-release
Couldn’t tell you where tho
Also this still affects SOM I guess
Oh, the infinite license covers those two books specifically
But that gives roll 20 your soul and locks you into infinite/roll 20 still
And I’m assuming you have to publish on infinite only still?
Even with this reversal
trail nova
If you want to make money and have Pazio IP, yeah. TBF, as a 1e head, I don't really mind
upbeat ridge
Ok but that’s only if you want to have paizo ip, I understand
I guess the big difference is that with this reversal, if you’re doing it for free you don’t have to put it on infinite?
limber comet
I mean they might just re-release DA underneath another name or something, who knows
I doubt it'll get left behind
I wouldn't worry about it TOO much
trail nova
I guess the big difference is that with this reversal, if you’re doing it for fr...
Yeah, which is huge. Infinite is horrible as a platform if you aren’t trying to distribute static files like PDFs in exchange for money.
sinful gyro
Well seems like you only have to use it if you are distributing pdfs for money now
upbeat ridge
Well seems like you only have to use it if you are distributing pdfs for money n...
Yeah
trail nova
Yeah, pdfs for money, with Pazio IP. At which point yeah, they can do whatever they want with your product
3pp functioned just fine pre-Infinite on the OGL, it will function just fine on the ORC, it will continue to function just fine in the future
It’s homebrew and fan tools that the CUP enabled
solar tendon
if the statement holds true the only things that must go on infinite are things you couldn't legally do before the policy is updated
just like was the case when infinite was introduced in the first place
just there's gonna be more things
and also more things that weren't allowed but also won't have to go on infinite
like non rpg content
upbeat ridge
I’ve been asking on the pf2e server, and the main thing was that they were addressing mixing of game mechanics and IP. What I’m getting is that they were trying to stop people from mixing ip and rules content even for free, without putting it on infinite first. Now you can do the same stuff you were doing if you’re not monetizing
ocean cobalt
what's this about dark archive not getting remastered
is it not getting remastered in the same way gods&magic isn't getting remastered or did something happen
upbeat ridge
Yeah
What I was curious about was how DA and SOM was gonna be on infinite with homebrew referencing it and stuff since they’re not ORC books but the Infinite license covers those books specifically as an exception
The main changes going foward is no purely ogl stuff on infinite (ie stuff that is getting fully replaced by the remaster and 1e stuff I’d assume) and that you can monetize some fan content (that uses paizo ip?) now under the fan content policy
rustic cape
what's this about dark archive not getting remastered
At this point I am taking all “this won’t be remastered” remarks as “we do not yet have concrete plans we want to announce”
worthy stump
Well, we know that at the very least they plan on rereleasing/reprinting old OGL rulebooks under the ORC with changes to make it fit the remaster, and possibly tweaks to make them more interesting
Probably not gonna be full remasters ala the new Core books tho
warped orbit
shoutouts to Predictive Purchase for just letting me pull out utility scrolls out of my bag when we need it
having some language barriers, and I can just reach into my bag and pull out a scroll of Translate 3
limber comet
Every day I wake up praying for Nahoa's meet the iconic
I need Okaiyo Ocean content
Directly into my veins
carmine egret
Hey Foundry question, is there a button I can switch to make it so the navigation tabs are invisible to players by default or do I have to do each one manually?
Nvm I have found a preferable solution
vast burrow
~~TBH though I feel like that’s fine for a level 2 feat and most dedications are...
You also get Monk's Powerful Fist + Parry trait on your Fist for it
vast burrow
Can you use stances with it?
Also no, fist only
Otherwise it'd just be one step removed from literally being unnerfed FoB at level 2
turbid dagger
I honestly agree that most are undertuned
Since class feats are far and away the most significant aspect of character building
Having One Less is REALLY rough for some classes
When you get 10
vast burrow
I wish it didn't feel like a must-take either for some builds though
Like if you're a one handed warrior or wielding a Finesse weapon, a free extra d6 agile attack per round sounds pretty damn good
Unless you really need that level 2 feat or something
rapid wagon
Starfinder playtest session 0 complete, characters made, briefing handed out for scenario 1
Feels cool
limber comet
I really wanna see the oni heritage
echo briar
If I’m a Minotaur hungerseed, do I get two different horn attacks?
echo briar
Also because it is relevant to one of my characters, there’s a fire themed archetype in the character guide right?
It feels weird that there’s no archetypes for each of the elements in RoE
fossil temple
Boyfriend second day of GMing : Let me do a quick map to finsih the lv1 boss fight
Said map:
dungeondraft gave good results!
I can share the .dd2vtt file if anyone want
solar storm
Ok Abomination Vaults spoilers: ||the players got Nakhazarin to surrender on level 3 (cult of the canker leader) and now she owes them - any ideas for special buffs or items?||
sinful gyro
What's their deal again?
solar storm
||ghoul cult leader and librarian||
sinful gyro
||Have you looked at some of the Grimories?||
||Or you could give them a bag of scrolls, they can use X times to pull out any scroll they like of below a certain level||
If you wanna get funky
||give them something from the ghoul archtype if they want||
But that has some mechanics tied to it that might make it tricky
But you can always edit it so
turbid dagger
Leveraging the|| ghouls being super familiar with the library|| sounds smart yeah
solar storm
||Have you looked at some of the Grimories?||
Ooh, can you elaborate?
sinful gyro
One sec
The low level ones are just about where your players should be
But honestly you can probably use some higher level ones
Some of the effects aren't the strongest
solar storm
Ooh
sinful gyro
Basically ||spell book + on school effect||
clever cobalt
God I wanna see the Tian Xia character book so bad
Anyone willing to share it? >_>
rapid wagon
its options should be up on archives eventually right?
novel merlin
Pathbuilder updates faster usually
There's YouTube videos going over most of the stuff
surreal basin
Yeah ever since the remaster I wouldn’t rely on nethys getting stuff soon
surreal basin
I can’t
clever cobalt
Fair
surreal basin
They’re watermarked with your name and personal info
clever cobalt
oh yeah, forgot about that
echo briar
Yeah ever since the remaster I wouldn’t rely on nethys getting stuff soon
Yea. Hopefully once PC2 comes out it should go back to normal
dapper tusk
i feel like regional cuisine is the sort of detail that's niche enough to not have a canon answer for
imo you can just decide how to interpret super specific stuff like that for your campaign
novel merlin
what Golarion country is closest to IRL Italy?
Cheliax is kinda roman?
surreal basin
Yea. Hopefully once PC2 comes out it should go back to normal
Oh you mean on nethys
We can hope
carmine egret
Cheliax is kinda roman?
Yeah that's my take too. Former capital of a big empire, now more defined by competing noble houses, etc.
clever cobalt
Taldor is more roman imo
frank crystal
What would be the best champion cause to adapt a vengeance paladin?
warped orbit
I'd probably say Justice?
frank crystal
Oh yah probably
That’s the new paladin right?
So strike on reaction to someone else being hit?
rustic cape
Aye
sinful gyro
I can recommend justice
sinful gyro
Don't even need reach I think
Their retrubutive strike works as long as both are in 15 feet
Although reach is good for other reactive strike stuff i guess
Ah wait ignore me
Reach is good
rustic cape
https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=156 This thing is IMO especially nice
Grapple at reach gives you even more control
true delta
Taldor is more roman imo
Hear me out: West Romans and East Romans
limber comet
I really wanna see the new lizardfolk stuff tbh
worthy stump
Taldor does have some pretty heavy Byzantine vibes
They even have a Varangian Guard equivalent
clever cobalt
Tian Xia aquired
rustic cape
Nice
limber comet
I need it....
clever cobalt
My Dragon Fighter/Monk died, and now I gotta make a new PC
Thinking Nephilim Kholo, but beyond that I'm unsure what dual class I want
Thinking maybe a Fighter/Giant Barb
Or Fighter/Thaum
surreal basin
How’d u blow up
clever cobalt
Me and the Rogue died after fighting two Shale Chargers (we're in an Indigo Isles game)
but yeah
turbid dagger
Thinking maybe a Fighter/Giant Barb
kholos did just get a very good d12 twohander
clever cobalt
Ye, the Spirit Thresher or something
surreal basin
Oh dual classing
clever cobalt
Ye
trail nova
Or Fighter/Thaum
Fighter/Thaum seems excellent
rapid wagon
Is there any way to look at the tian xia options online atm?
echo briar
How do you think SF2 will handle power armor?
replacing your str score feels very not 2e
just being heavy armor with some minor additions seems small enough that they should just add it to the core book
rustic cape
I think it’s likely that power armor will just be armor
sinful gyro
Heavy armor with some abilities and lots of / unique upgrade slots?
rustic cape
And given you get more upgrade slots with higher tier armor
I suspect power armor is just high-tier armor
sinful gyro
Ye but I'm saying there could be some unique power armor only slots