Pathfinder

[fast hill]

that sounds extremely dangerous

[frank crystal]

Why would that be an option?

“Our new design lets you empty a magazine in a single trigger pull! There’s no way to stop it!”

“Does it shoot faster that way?”

“Gods no are you crazy?”

[craggy thunder]

I think it's a very awkwardly worded 'you can squeeze the trigger and hold it and it'll keep firing'

[fast hill]

I assume that's squeezing the trigger to magdump on full auto

[carmine egret]

Greed Island arc

[limber comet]

I'm sorry but if I'm facing down a bigass dragon I wanna magdump

[fast hill]

and not like, pulling it once and it just keeps shooting

[craggy thunder]

yeah

[fast hill]

I assume it does eject the magazine when it's empty though

because that is insane

and perfect

jam prone scifi guns....

[craggy thunder]

It's actually fairly common

any weapon that uses the expelled gasses from firing a cartridge to cycle the action is technically a piston action

as the gas is being used to expand into an area and push something

And that just

Is fundamentally what a piston is

[sinful gyro]

Oh I guess i didn't know that was called a piston then

[fast hill]

there's no like, martial shotgun either

[sinful gyro]

I don't know what this means so I'm gonna assume it's sword art online and be disappointed in you

[craggy thunder]

one piece

[sinful gyro]

Ah not bad then

[fast hill]

nevermind there's a breaching gun

[craggy thunder]

the gas piston system being mentioned in the weapon description is just paizo nodding at gun nerds and going 'yes, this is a space-m4'

or AK-47

[warped orbit]

it's Hunter X Hunter

cause the Greed Island arc is also inside a video game

[sinful gyro]

I will also accept hunter x hunter

[craggy thunder]

guns are really fuckin interesting and I have precisely one mechanical hyperfixation and that is firearms

XD

[sinful gyro]

Hyper fixate on the soldier feats

[limber comet]

Cool WoI art I liked :]

[craggy thunder]

Okay so my group is changing to sf2e

[barren cipher]

p5 art

[solar storm]

What were they playing?

[craggy thunder]

1e

So I need to figure out how 2e solarian works lmao

[steel blade]

2e solarion fucks imo

as someone who played a 1e solarion and spent way more time in photon mode than graviton

[warped orbit]

I'll need to look into the new Solarian, it's the main thing I'm interested in

[steel blade]

only thing in the playtest im not thrilled with is solar flare's damage auto-upgrades as you level, reaching 5d6/5d8 at level 17, but solar weapon needs you to buy crystals to upgrade your attack bonus and damage dice, and thus only gets to 4d8(+persistent fire damage and any bonus damage from orbital crystals ig)

[sinful gyro]

Yeah new Solarion looks cool af

[surreal basin]

man uh

they really didn't deliver on the new idea behind kobolds huh

[sinful gyro]

SF2E should be out on foundry as of 2 mins ago

[surreal basin]

reading pc2 and yeah these still just read as dragon fellas, since thats.... kinda what theres support for

[sinful gyro]

Good bundle for sf1e stuff

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/starfinder-second-edition-playtest-primer-from-paizo-inc-books?hmb_source=&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_1_layout_index_1_layout_type_threes_tile_index_1_c_starfindersecondeditionplaytestprimerfrompaizoinc_bookbundle&_gl=1*1p4crys*_up*MQ..&gclid=CjwKCAjw5Ky1BhAgEiwA5jGujpSHVevLNLHQsES_We7DiKrzJVh5ea2aR5LQcCoMtkSBSTJVbKzzCRoCJZAQAvD_BwE

But it also has 2 scenarios for sf2e at the cheapest level

[frank crystal]

Were kobolds meant to be changed?

[warped orbit]

they mentioned they wanted to make them lean more into the different traditions IIRC

[steel blade]

yeah the new fluff for them is that they absorb energy from more powerful beings near wherever they grew up

[frank crystal]

Oh

[limber comet]

To be more general worshippers of powerful entities instead of just dragons

[steel blade]

but most of their mechanics still lean towards lil dragon peeps

[surreal basin]

yeah i think you would struggle to make like

a fey kobold

or what have u

[clever cobalt]

Oh did we get more stuff for WoI?

[limber comet]

Uhhh we learned a bit about it

[clever cobalt]

Such as?

[limber comet]

Not too much more

[clever cobalt]

Also didn't Prey for Death come out today

[steel blade]

or rather, there's not a lot of support for non-dragonscaled kobolds

[limber comet]

There's a fighter archetype inspired by Achilles

Class archetype

Uhh, you get mythic skill bonuses and "mythic points" to do mythic actions

[steel blade]

there's like, a couple feats for spellhearts, but that's it really, the rest either require dragonscaled heritage or are pre-remaster feats that are still leaning into the draconic flavoring

[warped orbit]

it does, yeah

Red Mantis Assassin seems like a pretty great archetype now

only issue is that it still requires sawtooth saber training

[limber comet]

I might pick up Feats+

[echo briar]

Is it just me, or does the new weapon tag boost seem terrible in its current form

[warped orbit]

what's it do?

[limber comet]

I'm. Intensely curious about the new Aftermath feats

[echo briar]

It’s one action to gain additional traits or damage on your next attack, but currently only boost 1 exists, which means your next attack deals 1 extra damage per damage die

[warped orbit]

ah

yeah that seems bad

[clever cobalt]

is taht the aim action or

[echo briar]

So at best, one action to do 4 extra damage if you hit

[echo briar]

Different thing, built into the weapon

In theory, if the reward was more than that, it would be fine. But the current rewards kinda stink

[clever cobalt]

Oh shit

Prey for Death says how and why Gorum dies

I can post it if anyone is interested

[warped orbit]

please do, I was curious

I read it also expands on Achaekek a bit

[clever cobalt]

Spoilers, obviously

[warped orbit]

interesting

[clever cobalt]

It's certainly not what I expected

[sinful gyro]

Yeah, kinda neat though

[limber comet]

Oh damn

Oh DAMN

[craggy thunder]

Oh that's fun

[clever cobalt]

||He commits suicide by cop because he realizes he's the bad guy, and wants to go out in style||

Somewhat, at least

[limber comet]

Our Lord in Iron

We miss you already

🫡

This has some fascinating implications for the war at large

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

As well as the nature of gods

[limber comet]

I'm really excited for Divine Mysteries now tbh

[clever cobalt]

Do we know anything about this Class Archetype in particular? Aside form it being based on Achilles somehow

[limber comet]

Honestly the gencon write up explains it better than I can with my paraphrasing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kDVHe7nmyiY4BKzAx_Jx-MAcUy0rtTinUjsZvIL8GEc/edit

[limber comet]

Something about having a specific "doom" that revolves around a weapon or damage type, but later on being able to weaponize that against your opponents

[sinful gyro]

I have the Starfinder 2e Adventure Modules installed on Foundry

If anyone has questions about them, let me know

[clever cobalt]

Neat

[limber comet]

Also light armor focus maybe

[echo briar]

Honestly, the lack of weapons are making me consider making a skirmisher, the pistol subclass, that doesn’t use pistols, because there’s literally one martial one handed ranger weapon, and it has boost

[clever cobalt]

Also Mythic stuff feels like it would work well with Kingmaker

[sinful gyro]

The lil guy pops up when you roll a 20 🙂

[clever cobalt]

Especially the Monarch Mythic Path

[turbid dagger]

Dang Gorum's kind of an OG

Between this and Shadow Of The Erdtree this is the year of beaten allegations

[rustic cape]

Hey, folks. What items come to mind as good picks for a level 12 animist with ABP and 2,250 gold?

[eager mountain]

awwwwww

I lvoe him

[limber comet]

I mean considering where Gorum lives, it'd make sense he'd be like "damn" after a while as the essence seeps into his being

[rustic cape]

I gotta spend gold and pick spells and neither of these is where I excel

[barren cipher]

wands and a stave probably wouldn't hurt

[turbid dagger]

I do like to think its less|| 'he slowly turned good cuz of elysium'|| and more ||he embodies both the good and bad aspects of war and that led him to this||

[limber comet]

Why not both

It doesn't have to be so simple as one or the other

[barren cipher]

couple of spellhearts

[sinful gyro]

Would anyone be interested in doing some Starfinder on Saturday?

[limber comet]

Hmm

Yknow what

Sure

I'd love to

[sinful gyro]

I'll work out some times and post it here 🙂

[limber comet]

If you'll have me

[sinful gyro]

I just wanna GM it and try it out

[limber comet]

I wanna play a Borai honestly

[fast hill]

what time?

I'd be down

[sinful gyro]

<t:1722686400:f>

How's that sound?

I'm free all day so can go for a long time

[limber comet]

Whew 8 am for me, I'll try to be there

[sinful gyro]

I could start later

Its 1pm for me

[limber comet]

I mean that early isn't a huge problem for me, just gotta sleep earlier

2 hours later would be better for me but I'm also free all day that day

So whenever everyone else needs

[sinful gyro]

I'll see what responses I get

[limber comet]

Is there any class you'd like me to playtest in particular or free reign

I can also play a pf2e class for "control"

Control test

[sinful gyro]

Basically just play starfinder stuff

No pf2e

[limber comet]

Mmmk, gotcha

[sinful gyro]

I guess an exception for spells? Haven't had a good look at them

But like if you wanna take fireball take fireball

But classes, anceatries, keeping it sf2e

[limber comet]

Yeah some sf2e stuff does use pf2e spells and feats

If I'm not mistaken

[sinful gyro]

For sure

[limber comet]

Notably backgrounds

[sinful gyro]

Ye that seems alright

[fast hill]

Can do that

for sure

[sinful gyro]

Nice

Could you do a bit later as well?

[fast hill]

yep

all day basically

[sinful gyro]

Good good

Nice

[fast hill]

might need to cook dinner later in the day but

it'll just be me putting some stuff in the oven

baked potato go brrrr

thinking I'll play an operator

[sinful gyro]

Nice

[fast hill]

Blamo, first and only Barathu Operative in the pact worlds...

[carmine egret]

It is

[fast hill]

human has cool heritages now????

sf2e

[turbid dagger]

Huh, fascinating
Archaic weapon training might be solid honestly, considering once you get a rune archaic stops hurting you iirc

[fast hill]

I haven't looked at the archaic stuff yet

[echo briar]

So weapon balance in starfinder is all over the place

Like, I think this simple weapon may be the best sniper rifle in the game

[fast hill]

there's an advanced weapon that is also 1d10

[echo briar]

same base damage as the assassins rifle, but this has 6 shots while the assassins rifle only has 1, and the assassins rifle has volly and unwieldy

[fast hill]

interesting

anything else with the assassins rifle?

[echo briar]

fatal is good and all, but the ability to make more than 1 attack in a round makes the seeker rifle better in DPS i think

[fast hill]

assassin rifle is fatal and backstabber

also breakdown?

also better reload

I assume reload is number of actions to reload it

[echo briar]

yea

[fast hill]

will need to check

yea

assassin rifle is a sidegrade

not necessarily better for every situation but imo I'd rather have the Assassin Rifle than the Seeker

[echo briar]

but the Seeker is 6 shots for 2 actions, or 3 shots an action. Assassin is 1 shot for 1 action

[fast hill]

I need to read the combat rules

if that's how that works that's crazy

oh I like misread that

hm

feel like there are definitely reasons to take one or the other though

fatal is good

breakdown is goodf

[echo briar]

yea, due to how weird the current gun selection is, I think a skirmisher operative with the seeker rifle is a better sniper than a sniper operative, and probably better than a skirmisher with pistols, when the skirmisher is the pistol subclass

[fast hill]

backstabber is also good

[echo briar]

at least until level 9

[fast hill]

assassin rifle feels like a non-combat weapon

like a thing you might use to open a fight

and then switch to something else

or something where you really want to be constantly in stealth as a ghost operative

[silver geyser]

So it's for assassinations.

[fast hill]

exactly

[echo briar]

yea, it just feels weird that a simple weapon is better in most cases than a martial weapon

[fast hill]

also you cant use the seeker rifle twice in a turn (at base)

1 strike, 2 reload

[echo briar]

yea you can

[fast hill]

oh wait

am I silly

[echo briar]

it has 6 projectiles

[fast hill]

yeah sorry

pf2e firearm brained

[sinful gyro]

So anyone else for starfinder on saturday?

<t:1722686400:f>

[rustic cape]

I … might be able to do that

I’m always up early enough

How long a session were you thinking?

[sinful gyro]

Maybe like 4-5 hours?

I might start later to

Like 1-2 hours later

[rustic cape]

I have PF2e … 10 hours after that?

I also have PF2e the night before :D

Wall to wall finding

[craggy thunder]

That time requires I be up at 5 am

but I am perhaps willing so as to get my rpg fix lmao

[rustic cape]

Yeah I think if I do it right I can probably manage that, although I might need a 15-minute break at some point to take the dog out

[craggy thunder]

what level? 1?

[sinful gyro]

Probably

[rustic cape]

And what client? Foundry? Roll20?

[sinful gyro]

Foundry

And yeah we'll have a break

[rustic cape]

That works. I can do her long walk first thing in the morning, come back, and play

[fast hill]

this is gonna just be a one shot right?

[rustic cape]

Lemme just check with the gf before I promise though

[sinful gyro]

Yeah just a one shot

I can only do saturday cos I have the whole day free

[craggy thunder]

Has anyone found a class other than a melee soldier that would make good use of strength melee weapons?

Like who's the dueling sword for?

[sinful gyro]

Enemies?

Or like a spellcaster taking on some melee

[craggy thunder]

fair lol

[sinful gyro]

Or maybe if you go Operator with the tech focus

[turbid dagger]

Operator has a solid melee subclass but it asks for Agile

[sinful gyro]

Ye

[sinful gyro]

Lemme know when you know

[sinful gyro]

Hey it's patrick star

[surreal basin]

Can I share art from pc 2 that i really like

[sinful gyro]

I don't see why not

[surreal basin]

look at this shit

this fucls

[silver geyser]

Nuckalevee!

[sinful gyro]

Cooool

[silver geyser]

What a great monster!

[rustic cape]

It’s from Orcadian folklore

Oh, also: PF2e demon banes are wonderful

My party in Frozen Flame fought a jacked babau and we were giddy when healing wounds it had caused hurt it

[sinful gyro]

@limber comet @fast hill @rustic cape @craggy thunder
https://discord.gg/DsrSrrNt
Join up for starfinder 2e planning if you're still interested

[eager mountain]

Veskarium battlle armor

[surreal basin]

Oh wow

Raging is a free action at the start of a fight now

[sinful gyro]

Ye

Barb is eating good

[limber comet]

I feel like that's been said a lot but it never gets any less awesome tbh

[warped orbit]

Pretty huge buffs to Barb yeah

[echo briar]

is PC2 on foundry yet?

[limber comet]

Yes

[echo briar]

Is there a way to get PC2 content without upgrading to foundry v12?

because I need to stay on V11 for my PDF importer to work

[surreal basin]

No

If you want any future content you’re gonna need to update to 12

[eager mountain]

yes

[steady wagon]

Starfinder's a fun game?

[sinful gyro]

1e, wasn't quiet my vibe

But the 2e playtest came out literally today

And looks like a lot of fun

[scenic patio]

I got player core 2 so I am interested in digging deeper to see the changes to some of the classes because a lot of them needed a significant boost like the alchemist/champion

[surreal basin]

Idk if I’d personally say champ needed much

They’re a tank so their damage doesn’t need any boosts, and they were a pretty effective defender

The way that shield ally works now is nice though

[echo briar]

I love the new spells

[surreal basin]

Idk how I necessarily feel about how memey a chunk of SF2e is tbh

Feats called 369 no scope and we do a little trolling got me cocking my head

[echo briar]

Also just slightly better electric arc

[warped orbit]

yeah just saw that one

[limber comet]

Tbfh Starfinder has always been the more jokey out of the two Finder siblings

[echo briar]

two actions, find the stars, instantly winning starfinder

[trail nova]

Yeah, I do agree. It feels a little too central, instead of in inherently silly stuff

I’m fine with a stupid feat that has fluff of “you used to be a vidgamer” or something. And master troll seems… okay.

The Zo! Stuff and whatnot can be sectioned off, and if a feat’s basic concept is a little memey, I’m fine with the name being a meme as well. It’s when it’s a meme name on something otherwise normal that I get weirded out.

[sinful gyro]

I think the setting has always had a sillier looser feel

[trail nova]

It has, and I don’t mind that, but in 1e it always felt more like something you needed to at least poke around for.

[turbid dagger]

It being a lil silly has always been my biggest gripe with Starfinder
But it seems like something you can just ignore, largely

Like at your table
Its not impossible to run a Fully Serious Game

[trail nova]

That was definitely true in 1e, because the silly names had silly fluff as well. Here, we get stuff like 360 No Scope as a feat to do regular martial stuff

Also, I hope the final list of deities includes say… Desna a bit more centrally

Bit weird that the star goddess with a central place in 1e isn’t in 2e but stuff like Abadar is.

[limber comet]

Capitalism is a super popular thing in sci-fi/sci-fantasy media

Gestures vaguely at the corpo-horror of aliens

[trail nova]

Also Sarenae. Just weird that the sun and stars aren’t represented as strongly.

[fast hill]

starfinder's sillyness is actually what made me decide not to use it for a campaign concept

and instead decide on space pirates

[trail nova]

Yeah, I think “tone down the silly stuff, or at least not have it connected to non-silly mechanics/fluff.” Is good feedback.

[turbid dagger]

Oh I see the 360 no scope feat
Its a silly name but the effect is like
Very normal
So I don't see the problem honestly
Its not like taking it makes your char a Gamer Boy
Side Note: Man Operative is cool

I really wanna make a Striker knife dude

It letting you change the prereqs for a lot of feats to work with melee weapons lets you do funny stuff

OPENING VOLLEY [one-action] FEAT 8
OPERATIVE
Requirements You’re wielding a gun and melee weapon or a
combination weapon.
You shoot your target, then follow up with a melee attack
to keep the pressure on your foe. Make a ranged Strike with
the required weapon. If the Strike is successful, your next
melee attack this round against the same target gains a +2
circumstance bonus to the attack roll.

Stab someone, then get +2 to stabbing them again

[sinful gyro]

This is probably more its a playtest thing than a lore direction thing

[fast hill]

Thats sorta my problem tho

It has a non silly effect that you would want to take for certain character types

But also "I have the feat 360 noscope" can kill the mood in more serious games

Well not kill it but yknow what I mean

[turbid dagger]

I suppose I get that
I guess my thought is
So long as what's happening in the narrative isn't ridiculous its fine

I am noticing something a little odd about Operative though
There are a few feats that are like 'aim and then stride', action compression to set up aim attacks, cool
......But like every Operative metastrike already has 'and aim' baked into it

Also Devastating Aim is a classic feat tax

[limber comet]

Aw man

I'm playing an Operative lol

[turbid dagger]

Oh fuck
All the agile melee weapons in the playtest are d4 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀

[limber comet]

Oh yeah I'm playing a Vesk Sniper Operative

Former Veskarium Sniper who deserted after seeing the atrocities on Pulonis

Now he's a pencil pusher on Absalom Station

[vast burrow]

They're so cute I'm going to cry

[limber comet]

Yaaa

I love the skittermander art

[echo briar]

yea, I think the operative is uniquely hampered by the weapons

As I am currently playing a skirmisher with a 2 handed simple weapon

because the martial weapons aren't great

[turbid dagger]

Is there actually a class that wants to like
Use a one handed non agile melee weapon by the by

[limber comet]

Envoy maybe

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I was thinking maybe from the front envoy

[limber comet]

But also keep in mind pf2e classes are cross-compatible so it's probably for those? Maybe?

[eager mountain]

I think its fun personally

[limber comet]

I feel getting too serious with Starfinder would be

Ehhh

But at the same time, too silly is

Bad

[turbid dagger]

My basic take is
Pathfinder is LARGELY serious
I just want Starfinder to be Pathfinder's Future
I think I can do games like that with the stuff we have now, but it definitely does feel a little sillier

[thorny berry]

groan

[vast burrow]

Dawg

That's funny

Oh wait, is that a DNA strand? Damn I thought that was an hourglass for a second

[novel merlin]

Pf2e classes are compatible but not necessarily reccomended or that well balanced.

I highly doubt that they're designing anything with pf2e classes in mind.

[sinful gyro]

I think they specifically said they weren't, aside from trying to make the classes unique

[novel merlin]

It's neat that they're on the same mechanical framework but I'd probably not allow them in a campaign unless the gimmick was specifically like time travelers from golarion or something

[limber comet]

I mean I dunno man I think some classes could still fit in

With some very minor tweaking

[sinful gyro]

I think some can for sure

I just wouldn't treat it as the default

Same way you wouldn't default allow sf2e in pf2e

[limber comet]

Mmm yeah okay fair enough

[turbid dagger]

Operative and Envoy are what interest me most after having looked through
Mostly Operative
I should like Solarian mechanically but I have 0 interest in the class at all for some reason
I don't think the light/dark(gravity?) dichotomy is hitting for me
Soldier is like
Decent but I can't think of a good character concept, I don't do Beef Slabchest types well
Mystic and Witchwarper are 'literally who'

[sinful gyro]

Soldier has so many fun feats though

What if instead of beef mcslab, you're an influencer

You live stream fights, people donate to you to do trick shots

You get sponsored by weapon manufacturers

[eager mountain]

nethys worshiper

[turbid dagger]

I should give Soldier a closer look really
See if there's a good shotgun

[thorny berry]

I feel like soldier's in a weird place because relative to the rest of the party it's like

the guy that's good at guns. But they were like, shit, we can't just do fighter again so it has to be something else

[sinful gyro]

I think it's mechanically very distinct from fighter

[warped orbit]

reading through the doc rn
I am flabbergasted at Hair Trigger

[sinful gyro]

Yeah hair trigger seems nuts

[warped orbit]

it's Reactive Strike
but at 2nd level, at range

[turbid dagger]

Funnily from what I've seen Operative is kind of uh
Fighter again

[warped orbit]

they very much are

[sinful gyro]

Yeah, I'd argue Op is closer to fighter

[warped orbit]

Operative is very shootMcgunman

you get expert prof with guns

[turbid dagger]

Oh shitty d4 knives agile melee weapons if you go striker

[thorny berry]

right that's what I'm saying, it feels like they had to swing it into this weird tank/aoe space because they couldn't just do legendary weapon proficiency again

even if that's sort of what the class fantasy of 'soldier' kinda suggests

[sinful gyro]

I think you're viewing the class fantasy wrong tbh

I hear it was more like fighter in 1e

But the class fantasy is going in a different direction in 2e

You're now a tf2 soldier

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-soldi-smirk-grin-gif-14632572

[trail nova]

I do like the 2e Soldier class fantasy, even if I think it lets a few things drop into the gap between it and Operative.

[warped orbit]

I think focusing Soldier on area damage and sorta debuff based tanking is cool

[turbid dagger]

And notably, Operative does
Do legendary weapon prof again
Though it also has the aim mechanic

[trail nova]

But Operative has moved into the "just a guy with a rifle and my guts and skills"

Operative seems very good and pretty fun. Just sucks it gets so few martial guns.

I kind of suspect every single Pistol operative is going to use the Card Caster.

[sinful gyro]

Hopefully the full book and tech book will add more

[turbid dagger]

The system truly
truly
Needs a d6 agile melee
No way am I pulling out the 2000 year old family heirloom +1 striking shortsword for my Striker Operative

I need my cool scifi knife

[trail nova]

It also needs a lot more martial 1-handed guns.

[sinful gyro]

Give them an uzi

Martial uzi

[warped orbit]

that would be kinda funny though

[trail nova]

Like, the Sniper options are okay, but the Ghost and Infiltraitor options are the Machine Gun (admittedly solid), Plasma Caster (Boost seems terrible), the Rotolaser (laser machine gun), and the Breaching Gun (Kickback).

[rotund geode]

Realized: You can cut bullets out of the air if you go Striker with deflecting fire

[turbid dagger]

I did see that
Depending on just how comprehensive the intent is for all the 'replace gun with knife' stuff for striker there might be some interesting stuff you can do

[upbeat ridge]

Idk why but the starfinder2e reddit seems to be pissed for no reason

[turbid dagger]

There's been plenty of contentious stuff here and this is one of the saner online communities I've been in
On reddit I imagine they're fighting to the death and demanding paizo HQ get dismantled by hand

[eager mountain]

when is reddit pissed

[limber comet]

I wonder if you could use Operative - Striker and Martial Artist archetype to make a John Wick type guy

[turbid dagger]

Alas, it only works for agile weapons 😭

[limber comet]

Ah damn lame

[turbid dagger]

Mhm, I'd be rolling with ancestry unarmed attacks if that were an option

[limber comet]

It would've been a cool bit of a character there if you could

[eager mountain]

the umbrela yokai is gonna be a heritage for poppet

😄 its a heritage where instead of a doll, your a haunted house hold item

[upbeat ridge]

Oh, like what

[eager mountain]

froge

[upbeat ridge]

Like, this is a playtest

It’s gonna get ironed out

Although some of the pc2 stuff was wild

[turbid dagger]

2e Soldier is nothing like 1e soldier, the weapon variety is really weird, lots of stuff with an unserious tone, those are the talking points brought up recently that I can recall

[upbeat ridge]

That’s fair

[limber comet]

The other two I can understand but 1e soldier was literally just space fighter

[turbid dagger]

I am very displeased that there is not one agile d6 weapon when theres a whole subclass that hinges on agile melee
There are agile d6 unarmed attacks

[turbid dagger]

And Operative is kind of just Space Fighter now

[limber comet]

A little bit yeah

[upbeat ridge]

But don’t they get some skills stuff too?

[limber comet]

It more falls into fighter+rogue

[trail nova]

I do like where Operative and Soldier landed, even if I think Soldier should maybe be a little wider than just AoEs.

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah

[trail nova]

Oh. Another "unserious name" is Action Hero

[upbeat ridge]

Since pf and sf are such similar environments now, I feel like they at least wanted the classes to feel different to pf classes

[limber comet]

...I liked the action hero name 😭

[upbeat ridge]

And give space for people to use pf classes if they want to, and vice versa

[turbid dagger]

Envoy is jam packed with them
Your clearly meant to be like
A han solo/star lord Schmoozy Space Criminal Dude

[trail nova]

It's... okay. It just doesn't feel at all "in-world" unlike the other ones.

[upbeat ridge]

Although the sf classes seem strong compared to most pf classes

[trail nova]

Armor Storm is a little weird, but it's not really a meme

[turbid dagger]

Armor Storm's name is directly lifted from a PF1e soldier subclass iirc
a WAY COOLER ONE

[limber comet]

I'm gonna be so real I will take every meme name ever just to use the 3 action system

[eager mountain]

I don’t get what people have against the “unserious” names. Imo they are fun and I love them

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah they’re funny but this many can just get a bit… ugh

Yaknow

[eager mountain]

I don’t, mostly cuz I like it

[upbeat ridge]

Like Doom Scroll was a funny pun, but 360 No Scope feels a bit much

[limber comet]

I mean

I see both sides tbh

[eager mountain]

I like 360 no scope

[trail nova]

I don't like them on otherwise normal content. It's fine when you can take a feat to use your master-vidgaming skills IRL, it's less funny when "Sameen Shaw Knockoff" goes and uses 360 No-Scope in a tense emotionally dramatic fight.

[eager mountain]

But I guess I’m easy to please

[upbeat ridge]

It’s fine, but I feel the bit has become over saturated

[limber comet]

Just something to write in your playtest respone lol

Response*

[eager mountain]

Fair

[limber comet]

Though tbh they seem to be shooting for a GotG vibe so maybe that's why all the silly names

[rotund geode]

GotG?

[limber comet]

Tbf I can see the names being a bit tonally disruptive in an AP like Signal of Screams or the like

[limber comet]

Guardians of the Galaxy

[rotund geode]

ah ok

[eager mountain]

Idk I feel the joke names on the same level as the epic feat names that they do in p2e

[limber comet]

I...disagree

[eager mountain]

That was just my opinion

I said I feel them on a similar level

[limber comet]

I mean fair enough I guess

I think that's a weird thing to relate "godbreaker" to "master troll" but idk

Anyways, I'm a little annoyed there's no hand to hand combat guy in sf2e

I wanna play space Kiryu

[turbid dagger]

Yeah.....
It would be SICK if Striker Operator worked with unarmed attacks
I'd be hooting and hollering
Maybe it will eventually get that

[limber comet]

I mean if I gmed I'd allow it

[solar storm]

I'm just trawling for interest, this chat has been moing insanely fast today

Would a Starfinder thread make sense now?

[craggy thunder]

Maybe? If only to prevent too much crosstalk

[limber comet]

Oh maybe

[solar storm]

We don't need to now but I have had trouble keeping up with the channel haha

Albeit I was also working for hours after SF2's playtest dropped

[turbid dagger]

This stuffs only be around for a day
So it seems inevitable that it would be hectic

[solar storm]

yeah 100%

[worthy stump]

to be fair, like

a lot of stuff was dropping today

not only the entire SF2 playtest, but the gencon stuff as well

[solar storm]

yeah haha

[worthy stump]

and Player Core 2, but there's been quite a bit of early access to that one already, haha

[young chasm]

yeah todays just a busy day in pf community

also tbf the sf1e community was mad in the same way pf1e was mad when pf2e dropped

its to be expected and largely ignored imo

[solar storm]

Yeah makes sense

[thorny berry]

I always forget that there's like

a dedicated brigade of people that show up on all pf2 announcements on the paizo site to talk about how pf2 sucks

like you'd think they would have found another game by now it's been a minute

and I say that as someone very much not without criticism of it

[surreal basin]

So

Is just a two handed weapon champion, specifically redeemer?

I feel like not using a shield on a champion is kinda a trap but it might just be brain rot

[turbid dagger]

This is worded a little weird but I assume you mean 'is a redeemer champ with a twohander good'
I'd say its probably fine
A shield is nice but throwing a big ol d12 around as the baseline tankiest dude is nice also
You can heal yourself with lay on hands, heavy armor AC, so on
In a way you have the privilege to forego a shield for more damage because your defenses are good

[surreal basin]

Oh sorry yes

Okay current thought

Swapping between sword and board and poke arm on a redeemer as necessary

Swap

[rotund geode]

New witchwarper is very hype for me, a distant witchwarper fan

[frank crystal]

It’s redeemer specifically but for paladin/justice champions I really enjoy Minotaur+great weapon builds

For redeemer specifically though, I’ve had a player have a lot of success with a Naginata

[cyan raven]

It does! It's in the errata faq ;)

[turbid dagger]

Oh sick!

[frank crystal]

Punch operator

Punch operator

Also I know it’s not super likely but god I hope operators get a good gunkata build because it would be sick

[surreal basin]

Yeah so thoughts currently are
Sword and Board who switches to polearms for some stuff

OR

gorilla stance

With a big shield

Since gorilla stance has no armor reqs

And I would be a follower of

https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=123

[frank crystal]

That’s a very redeemer champion god

[surreal basin]

Yeah

And this is specifically like

A blackguard who was given a second chance at life by a god of redemption

The other build would be the prismatic ray

[echo briar]

Just finished my first starfinder playtest.

Testing just how compatible it is with PF2. I was a operative in an otherwise PF2 party

[frank crystal]

What are the results?

[echo briar]

The class itself is fine. Equipment was mostly fine, but I didn’t get to try out lvl 3 permanent flight via an item

That could have caused problems

But we were indoors

However the simple seeker rifle is probably better than every PF2 ranged weapon

Turns out, d10, no drawbacks is very good

Really wish there was a martial equipment

[upbeat ridge]

was it a test in starfinder or in pathfinder?

[echo briar]

In pathfinder

[upbeat ridge]

ah

i feel like youre supoosed to use pf items if youre doing it in pf

otherwise yeah the weapons are gonna be busted

[echo briar]

They said it was compatible. I was just testing that

And honestly it was fine

[surreal basin]

yeah that starfinder rangwed weapons are just collectively gonna be stronger than any 1e weaoin

weapon

of equivalent level

since starfinder is skewed signifcantly towards ranged combat

[upbeat ridge]

thing is, if it has the tech trait, thats basically a tier above rare id think

in pf

[echo briar]

It does not

Analog

[upbeat ridge]

yeah that too tbh

idk why people are saying the equipment selection is weird (/gen)

holy shit this is a really good feat

[rotund geode]

yeah its pretty crazy

[upbeat ridge]

also, there seems to be plenty of martial weapons, wdym

[echo briar]

There is no marital equivalent of the seeker rifle

2 handed, high damage, vaguely good capacity, good range

[echo briar]

There is only one one handed martial gun

[upbeat ridge]

oh i see

[echo briar]

And it’s only real trait, boost 1, is very bad

Soldiers have a lot of guns, but operatives not so much

[echo briar]

The seeker rifle is uniquely good at using this. It’s why I went skirmisher with it

But reaction attacks at 120 ft is insane

And the martial sniper rifles can’t do it at all due to unwieldy

[limber comet]

So I took a peek at Second Contact

Holy shit the new swarm art is rad

It's more

Generally arthropodal in nature

There's some crustacean and arachnid in there with the insectoid bits

[rotund geode]

alright so
Having given it some thought
Soldiers with esoteric weapons are so fun to me conceptually

Like a Soldier with that one evil violin

using a sword as the bow to be an edgy fuck

[warped orbit]

this one feels like it should be a Gunslinger thing as well

[thorny berry]

....wait I thought that Taking Cover while prone already did that

or the second half at least

ah nope that's a weird one

honestly a prone build for sniper gunslinger would be nice just for how janky relying on stealth can get

[upbeat ridge]

Is operative just Better Gunslinger rn?

[warped orbit]

Not quite sure, but they do have some overlap

Same attack progression

Operative also has a number of good metastrikes, and Aim damage

[upbeat ridge]

And gunslinger is more support right?

[warped orbit]

Though if Gunslinger could use SF guns, they would probably also be pretty good

[warped orbit]

Honestly nah
I never really subscribed to that argument personally
People just look at Fake Out being really good and arguably one of its best features, and extrapolate that into the class being support

[upbeat ridge]

But gunslinger has some utility instead of raw damage

[warped orbit]

Operative also has debuff metastrikes

[upbeat ridge]

Where operative seems to be focusing more on damage/self buffs

But I see the differences ig

[novel merlin]

They're for different games so they're not necessarily balanced against each other

[surreal basin]

Yeah I cannot stress enough that they are not the same game

They have different balance rules

[thorny berry]

it's me I am the Fake Out hater

both because I dislike aid on attacks in general and because treating an optional feat as a class cornerstone (and its balance allegedly reflecting as much!) suuuucks

certain specialized gunslinger builds can provide some amount of support

[wooden orbit]

Witchwarper gonna be so tempting

[limber comet]

Honestly all the sf2e classes are tempting

[robust heron]

has anyone posted carcinization yet?

[limber comet]

A few times

[sinful gyro]

Operative is supposed to get agile melee and unarmed bonuses for that striker subclass

So there is a hand to hand guy

[sinful gyro]

It does

Change the first line of the striker’s exploit to read: “You have expert proficiency with unarmed and one-handed melee weapons with the agile trait instead of with martial guns."

Errata

[fast hill]

Imo

Simple weapons and martial weapons are rebalanced with a different design philosophy now rather than "simple bad, martial good, advanced great"

Advanced weapons are still cracked but simple are generalist weapons and martials are specialist weapons

[rustic cape]

Okay the kitty ancestry gets this, this is the sad cat chorale from homestuck

[rustic cape]

https://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/chorale-for-jaspers-3

[sinful gyro]

Or its the ghost song from cats

(Movie not stage show)

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah I know pf2e and sf2e aren’t balanced to eachother, but I feel like they at least wanted the classes to be more unique so people have the space to use pf classes or vice versa

The power level in sf does seem a bit higher, so people are gonna have to be careful with using sf classes in pf

[echo briar]

Where is this errata?

[sinful gyro]

https://paizo.com/starfinderplaytest/faq

[echo briar]

Thank you.

[trail nova]

You know, while I am glad that Weapon upgrades will be less of a mess than 1e, I'm sad that we'll loose the great names some of the upgrades had, they added some nice fluff.

[turbid dagger]

That's a very good change for striker
.....Now, to check the rules to see if unarmed attacks are archaic, and how to negate that if so

[sinful gyro]

I think archaic just means you use runes

and materials but is not suitable for striking modern armor.
All weapons from the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game have the
archaic trait. Weapon runes (GM Core 236) function normally
with archaic weapons.```

It's a weapon / item / armor tag

I don't see like, any actual mechanical downsides

[turbid dagger]

I believe non-runed archaic weapons also do very badly against non-archaic armor
Or at least that was the skinny in the prior playtests

[sinful gyro]

I don't see a mechanic for that but I could of missed it

Like it says is not suitable for striking modern armor

But I don't know if that's an actual mechanic

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, a cursory ctrl f does not show that either
It was DEFINITELY a thing in prior playtests though
Maybe they did do away with it and thats just a relic

[echo briar]

They also added occult mystics, something not in the field tests

I feel like multiple hands need a slight buff now that swap exists

[trail nova]

Yeah, the way 1e balanced it was making having multiple combat capable hands extremely expensive - hands that could just do interact/reload/ect stuff tended to not break the bank on balance.

[echo briar]

Not “use all hands at the same time”’buff, but some small bonus

Maybe you can change hands at the start of your turn as a free action. To change mid turn is an action still

[trail nova]

Right now the only advantage I can think of is that it's a boost to action economy if you have to swap 2 items out. I am also on record as thinking that Pazio's handling of drawing items RAW is horrible and actively infuriating

(On another "Probably didn't need such a big nerf" - environmental protections and that Android feat for holding your breath for an hour both strike me as kind of terrified that players will be able to do stuff like function in vacuums, despite this being science fantasy.)

[echo briar]

I believe that the devs said that they put somewhat conservative versions out in the playtest so they can see how much further, if at all, they need to take it

It’s usually better to start low and then buff, then start high and then nerf. Even if the results are the same, perception changes dramatically between the two

[trail nova]

Yeah. I'm just annoyed with 2e's insistence that inhaled toxins remain a threat. At least everything but the explorer's robes knock-off comes with vacuum protection for days per level. Still an issue before level 5.

The insistence that people breath toxic air strikes me as particularly hilarious in Starfinder, where "planet with toxic gasses" is a classic trope, and also adventure design can actually just assume that everyone has enviromental protections. At least in Pathfinder there's some logic to the argument that a skeleton not needing to breath can trivialize obstacles. Here it just feels like insisting that things remain obstacles at the cost of common sense.

[echo briar]

I feel like inhaled poisons should act like injury poisons in most armors. The poison leeks in whenever you take damage

[trail nova]

I just realized that currently by RAW, regular armor lets you breath underwater and in vacuum without issue, but not in toxic gasses. So you can be fine on a moon with no atmosphere, go to one with CO2 for the atmosphere and choke to death, before diving into a pool and being fine.

[young chasm]

late but i’ve played a two handed weapon champion before it’s really good

idk if remaster has changed this but you get really good free runes out of weapon ally

at level 10 a free flaming rune fucks

that on a paladin hits like a truck

evil champs too

[trail nova]

Hmm. On the non-serious names note, I feel like "Additional Spoons" is maybe not a widely known enough reference, for a name that's such an obvious reference even if people don't get it?

I'm not entirely opposed to it, it just strikes me as very non-descriptive if you don't know about Spoons as a mental health concept.

[barren cipher]

you get a bit less mileage out of it than a paladin or whatever they're calling it now but not having a shield raised does make you a bit more attractive a target

[trail nova]

360 No-Scope is a pretty widely known thing, and also kind of makes sense - you run, jump, and land a trickshot without trying, even if you've never heard a teen yell it. Additional Spoons is as far as I know something that doesn't have a ton of reach besides a few online communities.

[barren cipher]

rather than the lose/lose of attacking a shield raised champ with +3-5 ac more than the next guy in line, or attacking the next guy in line and getting champion's reactioned and taking -2 to half your shit forever

[warped orbit]

I read through the SF playtest doc yesterday
First impression of the classes is pretty good, though I'd need to see more how often Operative and Soldier need to reload

[sinful gyro]

Op gets a free reload don't forget

[warped orbit]

Eventually yeah

[sinful gyro]

No, at level 1

[trail nova]

Even at level 1 they get mobile reload

[sinful gyro]

Mobile reload

[warped orbit]

Oh yeah, though I don't count that as free

But I'm also mostly looking at Soldier
Since Area/Auto fire expends more ammo

And a lot of their weapons are also reload 2, though they have a feat for that fortunately

[barren cipher]

yeah i think it heavily depends on what you're doing, i think you should generally get through a fight without reloading unless you get super lucky

[echo briar]

From my playtest last night, my operative never needed to reload mid combat with a seeker rifle

[barren cipher]

if you can hit like five people with your machine gun twice in a row you're eating well in the first place

[turbid dagger]

The Magnetar Rifle is kind of speaking to me as a soldier option
Mostly because an automatic railgun sounds sick as hell
But it has the downside that it seems like one of the more punishing weapons ammo econ wise
Reload 2, and an ammo capacity of 6
So auto firing 3 people depletes it

[barren cipher]

you also can't use primary target with advanced weapons

well you can but you're untrained so why bother

[turbid dagger]

I assumed there was some way to get advanced weapon prof

[barren cipher]

if there is i can't find it

you can get advanced for some melee weapons the usual ways

[warped orbit]

Also while looking at the weapon table, I wonder if the Singing Coil has a misprint
It has 10 capacity, but also 10 expenditure

[turbid dagger]

I am going to make an executive decision and say that Unconventional Weaponry works with the Magnetar Rifle
If a prospective GM has an issue with this we will meet on the field of battle

[warped orbit]

Not in the errata though, so maybe it's intended
Even though that's kinda weird

[turbid dagger]

Also: Two handed chainsword as a martial weapon, Hell Yeah
And the grindblade is like a molecule-scale chainsword which is very nice
Its also just the falcatta but people love that

(Er, falcatta in the knife group, important distinction if you care about crit spec I suppose)

[frank crystal]

I mean, I do prefer the knife crit to the sword crit tbh

There’s so many other ways to get off guard

There’s less for persistent damage

[carmine egret]

Thank you for asking because one of my players is planning to pivot to Champ and she's a Sarenrae worshipper with a big a axe

(reformed Rovagug cultist)

[turbid dagger]

Right now the two chars I sort of want to play are
An unarmed Vesk Striker Operative
And a Human (maybe Borai?) Soldier with a Magnetar Rifle

[limber comet]

The borai art is so cool honestly

[limber comet]

I really hope we get a starship playtest sooner as opposed to later

I mean I don't want them to flood the ecosystem but

That's like one of the big draws of starfinder

[worthy stump]

same, but it'll probably be a while. the playtest PDF says that the starship tactical combat rules will come out in a future product after the full release, and have their own playtest period

hopefully that'll give them the time to cook up a nice system for it

[limber comet]

I mean honestly the fact that they're getting a playtest makes me hopeful

[worthy stump]

same, yeah

[thorny berry]

yeah that seems like a subsystem that would be

extremely vulnerable to fucking it up

and especially if it's meant to overlap meaningfully with the character rules I could certainly see wanting to have the latter locked down first before getting deep into it

[echo briar]

Well, they just announced the technomancer and mechanic playtest, so probably in that book

Also, guns and gears is getting remastered

The fact that there starting with G&Gs tells me that they may have bigger plans for SoM (unless SoM has already been reprinted while G&Gs has not, in which case they may just be doing it for the reprint)

[surreal basin]

Jesus we’re gonna be in the remaster mines forever huh

Good tho, G&G is in desperate need of reworks

[thorny berry]

I mean that sounds like he's talking about small scale stuff

so probably another six years of gunslinger discourse

[sinful gyro]

Yeah, its not a whole remake

[warped orbit]

it's mostly gonna be reprinting the errata and some smaller adjustments by the sound of it

[sinful gyro]

Probably just an errata re-release

I do wonder if anything we see from sf2e guns will go into pf2e

Not the gun themselves but some of the mechanics

[warped orbit]

I kinda doubt it

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah that’s fair

Idk

I still am gonna hold out hope they do something to gunslinger and guns cause

I’m still very much not happy

[warped orbit]

We do at least have Arbalest Gunslinger now I guess

Though it is a little funny that the best Gunslinger weapon is now a crossbow

[thorny berry]

seems to be the go-to for if you're dealing with standard paizo adventure design higher-level targets yeah

[warped orbit]

It has very comparable damage on crit too

And much higher on non crit

[thorny berry]

oh rip

is there a term for carcinization but it's like 'all systems that don't have feat taxes will gradually write their way into them'

[warped orbit]

The new Crossbow Crackshot is just that good

Assuming you can reliably enable Backstabber, but Sniper can mostly do that

[young chasm]

it's probably too early to ask but is there any sf2e playtest system on foundry yet?

[frank crystal]

there is

[turbid dagger]

That's always been the case if your looking at advanced weapons really
Taw Launcher, AKA Death Itself

[young chasm]

real shit? where can i find it

[frank crystal]

paizo website i think

[turbid dagger]

Advanced question: Is it currently possible to have starfinder classes and pf ones in the same foundry instance

[frank crystal]

That I do not know

[sinful gyro]

Download the PF2e System in foundry, make sure it's up to date, then download the SF2e module and use that in your pathfinder world

[frank crystal]

Im gonna ask the discord

[young chasm]

oh it's a module

[sinful gyro]

All the SF2e content will be in the compendium

[turbid dagger]

I can honest to god see my Fighter in Kingmaker becoming an Envoy

[sinful gyro]

When SF2e comes out fully, it will get it's own system

[young chasm]

yeah im sure it will

[frank crystal]

Oh cool

[young chasm]

i just wasnt expecting a module ig lol

[sinful gyro]

And yes you can have both classes

[rustic cape]

TBF we just got Howl of the Wild, and War of Immortals is coming up

And Rage of Elements before that

[thorny berry]

surprised they didn't properly announce whatever battlecry is at gencon

I'm assuming they did the playtests early to give more bandwidth to people to playtest the sf2 rules?

[surreal basin]

They’ve said that yes

[warped orbit]

Taw is great, but it wasn't as directly ahead of say an arquebus than the arbalest is now I think

[steel blade]

I imagine there will be modules for the pf/sf systems to include content from the other game after the official release, but that's a long way off

[warped orbit]

also to put some numbers on this
I'm only gonna calc at Striking, because I don't feel like doing the math for every amount of dice
target is assumed off guard for all of these (maybe unrealistic, but eh)

Arquebus regular hit: 2d8 [9] + 2 = 11 avg
Arbalest regular hit: 2d10 [11] + 7 = 18 avg
Arquebus crit: 2*(2d12+2) [30] + 1d12 [6.5] = 36.5 avg
Arbalest crit 2*(2d10+7) = 36 avg

the large amount of flat damage Crossbow Crackshot gives makes it very competitive even against fatal crits

[craggy thunder]

I do wonder why it's agile and not finesse?

[sinful gyro]

Small stab weapons

[frank crystal]

I think it’s just meant to be a strength focused subclass

[craggy thunder]

Sure but is an operative gonna use a battleglove

[thorny berry]

harder limit on damage I guess? or at least I thought agile was limited to like d6

[frank crystal]

They’re very cancelable

[thorny berry]

whereas finesse goes up to d8

[craggy thunder]

my main issue is if it's supposed to be the Str subclass

Why didn't they do the thing they do with rogue rackets?

[frank crystal]

Unfortunately so far in starfinder other then some unarmed attacks there are no agile weapons that go up to d6

[craggy thunder]

Btw since pc2 is out, what're people's thoughts about dragonblood so far?

[frank crystal]

Haven’t looked at them yet

Probably should

Give me a sec

[surreal basin]

it's alright

v good but exactly as expected

yknow

[frank crystal]

Oh shit immediately with draconic aspect anyone can get a free trip attack tail at level 1 now

[wooden orbit]

For anyone who hasn’t seen it yet, Starfinder 2E playtest is live on DemiPlane

[frank crystal]

Also damn I thought the AC feat was 3 bonus+2 not 2+3

So not as crazy for monks it seems

[thorny berry]

still extremely good for monks tbh

[warped orbit]

it lets you cap out AC immediately for Str builds

[thorny berry]

and hopefully lets dragon stance feel like they can pump str + cha

[craggy thunder]

so dragonblood has an AC feat?

[turbid dagger]

Yep, ancestry feat 1

2 item 3 dex unarmored

str monks thriving

[craggy thunder]

lol nice

str laughing shadows also thriving

[frank crystal]

I was planning to make a weapon monk soon…

[frank crystal]

I mean can’t they just grab some hide armor?

Or other medium armors

[barren cipher]

you lose a little bit of the speed bonus

[frank crystal]

Oh right

I forgot laughing shadow has that

[craggy thunder]

ye

[barren cipher]

i mean it's a status bonus in the end so kinda whatever

[frank crystal]

I mean it’s a free status bonus

That isn’t super common outside of like, elf and nephilim

[barren cipher]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1711

[frank crystal]

Oh

[barren cipher]

elf and nephilim give you untyped bonuses, that's why people care

[frank crystal]

I was thinking of fleet step

[barren cipher]

also you can buy tactical petrol in sf2, what the fuck

[turbid dagger]

I just realied the Khakkara is a d10 monk weapon
It and dragon stance are the only d10 monk options right
Dragon has backswing so its probably better but
Huh

[clever cobalt]

Oh thank fuck

Wonder what changes will be made

Hopefully a Gunslinger buff

[limber comet]

I am a little sad that only technomancer and mechanic are getting tested

I would've liked to see biohacker haha

Though I'd bet they'd put biohacker and evolutionist in the same book

Theme it around augmentations

[craggy thunder]

biohacker and precog not being in the playtest is the main reason our gm isn't switching us to 2e lmao

[limber comet]

Precog is gone

Reduced to atoms

[warped orbit]

Precog is folded into Witchwarper

[limber comet]

Ye

[turbid dagger]

I want Evolutionist and Nanocyte 😭

[craggy thunder]

Ahhhh

[limber comet]

I feel like nanocyte might get folded into Evolutionist

For some reason

[craggy thunder]

I can't wait to play my Kasatha devotee of Damoritosh

[clever cobalt]

Evolutionist is neat though

Love that class, at least conceptually

[surreal basin]

if everyothing in starfinder 1e was in 2e core the book would be the size of a house lmao

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

In a sense I'm glad they're starting over per se

[limber comet]

I mean I just almost wanted the next player facing book after sf2e Player Core to have like 4 classes

Like apg

So they can do new stuff

[surreal basin]

nah cause the uhhh

the apg classes weren't well balanced

generally

and ive seen it accepted that its because theres 4 of them in a single relase

release

like it wasnt a travesty but oracle and swash were complained about for years

[limber comet]

That's true

Well, alright

I just kinda wanted them to get some of the most wanted 1e classes back in

So some new stuff can get put in

I really want that heavy armor elemental caster they teased at paizocon (left it behind in 1e)

On the drawing board

[rustic cape]

Uh, real quick, I don't think I fully understand how Halcyon Spells work -- can anyone clarify it for me?

Are they like ... atypical extra spells known that might not be with your normal spellcasting ability? Which you prepare in your normal slots? And you can't heighten?

[solar tendon]

basically combined primal arcane spell list

but you can only use halcyon slots to cast them

[rustic cape]

Oh, huh

Okay

Do you get a halcyon slot when you get a halcyon spell?

[solar tendon]

but they also get some additional benefits from feats in magaambyan attendant and halcyon speaker

[rustic cape]

I'm joining a Strength of Thousands game tonight and I have everything but halcyon spells and items figured out

[solar tendon]

the stuff that gives you the spells also gives you the slots

which I think is just halcyon speaker

[rustic cape]

Magaambyan Attendant gives me a cantrip

[solar tendon]

yeah thats just a cantrip

no special rules

[rustic cape]

But I don't have to prepare it in one of my normal slots? I also get another cantrip and a first level spell from Cascade Bearer's Spellcasting.

[solar tendon]

cantrips gained from feats dont take up slots no

[rustic cape]

Ahhhhhh

(I am new to casters and may be jumping in the deep end)

[solar tendon]

i dont think cascade bearers spellcasting gives a halcyon slot unfortunately

[rustic cape]

Okay, so I get a first level spell but have nowhere to use it

That's fine

[barren cipher]

it doesn't give you a slot no but you can prepare it as normal

[rustic cape]

Last question: am I reading correctly that arcane halcyon spells use int and primal halcyon spells use wis? I've misunderstood enough here that I want to double check

[barren cipher]

you can't heighten it so it's not likely to be terribly useful

[solar tendon]

oh wait yeah

pilcrow is right

I think that only applies to the attedant cantrip?

[barren cipher]

you'd just use the best one anyway right?

[rustic cape]

Well if the idea is that I can pick up a few arcane cantrips I couldn't otherwise

[solar tendon]

the stat for full halcyon spells is based on the class youre using to cast them

[rustic cape]

But not for cantrips? Or is it that one cantrip in particular that's weird?

[solar tendon]

yeah

dw it just is confusingly written haha

[rustic cape]

Alright. So ... that one cantrip uses int no matter what if I go with arcane, but the one from Cascade Bearer can use wis (I'm a channeler)?

[sinful gyro]

Cosmic Birthday Spoilers

||Rasputin must live||

[limber comet]

Bruh I can't unspoil cuz we're playing tomorrow!!!!

:[

[frank crystal]

No, no, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[sinful gyro]

Its not really a spoiler

Just a cute character

[echo briar]

||wow, the end of reigns of winter is cooler than I thought||

[limber comet]

Aw

Squox

[surreal basin]

okay has anyone played investigator in foundry recently

i cant get strategic strike to work

i had to add the old version of the feature to my new sheet

[rustic cape]

Animist is fuckin rad y’all

It gives you so many toys

[clever cobalt]

I do wish it worked a bit better on Foundry though

[rustic cape]

Yeah it’s a bit awkward

Even so I didn’t find it to be too bad

[thorny berry]

I still wanna see how the one gish spirit works out

people seemed real into it but I was skeptical of the playtest

and battle oracle is dead, so

[echo briar]

Tales from my campaign: the Knoll language is a 1920s New York accent

[novel jacinth]

sniper operative is really funny when your shots land. big damage.

solarian: yeah that's out of my range, I can't hit it this round
me, turn coming up, about 70ft away: (primes a shot) Not out of my range though!

also. one of our group is playing a solarian and man. solarian is kind of wild.

[trail nova]

So, one thing that came up but got burried under a lot of PC2 and SF2e stuff is that Pazio killed a lot of fan-made tools like Hephaistos for Starfinder, a lot of guides, and I'm sure several other things, with the switch from the Community Use Policy to Fan Content Policy.

This seems to go into a lot more detail: https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6vh12&page=4?New-and-Revised-Licenses#162

It seems... really bad. Seems to kill any sort of auto-filling character sheet that either mixes OGL/ORC content, or uses Pazio IP but not paywalled, foundry materials?, and a bunch of other stuff.

[silver geyser]

This sorta comes with the change in liscense, tbh

[trail nova]

I think it kills some fully-ORC-era stuff as well. I think that if I wanted to make a guide to the Remastered cleric and threw in a sections of deities, I would only be able to distribute on Pathfinder Infinite, as far as I can tell. Or write homebrew using only ORC material and Golarion stuff, that would need to be on infinite, not a google doc link.

The later one is definitely true as far as I can tell.

[vocal ember]

yeah it seems restrictive

[trail nova]

Oh. Actually, forum/discord posts fall under free Use, so I can say write “Favored of Gorum: Fighter 20 Feat, 1 action, deal 9999 slashing damage to a target you can see” and have it be fine, but the second I put it on a google doc, it needs to be on infinite or I can’t share it

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah I feel like this is paizo trying to not get thier pants sued off by wotc

Which is valid!

But also is completely over complicating things

[upbeat ridge]

I think foundry has a specific license, and I’d assume people making foundry modules that don’t contain lore and setting content are fine/wont see much impact?

[trail nova]

Foundry does, but if another great vtt like foundry came along it couldn't have a fan project like the current foundry one build up before eventually getting an official license.

[upbeat ridge]

But like. What I’m not understanding is what prevents people from writing up some rules in a google doc and posting it on discord?

Does it just not have to have any setting content (ie reference a specific diety) or can people not do that at all now

[trail nova]

Thing was that before you could freely reference setting material if it was free. You can't now.

[upbeat ridge]

I see

I’m sure there’s a good reason for that

Copyright law is fucked up and weird

I mean it sucks but oh well

Paizo needs to be able to cover their ass

[trail nova]

See, I'm not sure that it's actually covering their ass, it's just forcing the content into tighter association with Pazio by forcing it onto Infinite

[upbeat ridge]

Ok so

[surreal basin]

Okay to be clear

Can you post ORC stuff outside of infinite

What is the literal change

[upbeat ridge]

For content that uses the golarion/pact worlds setting, they want that on infinite. If it’s just rules stuff then you can post it anywhere and still use the ORC, or at least the part of the ORC that covers the rules

[surreal basin]

That makes sense

[trail nova]

Yes. But you can no longer mix rules and setting even in random homebrew.

[upbeat ridge]

You can still refrence ORC content like “see page x of player core 1” on infinite right?

[trail nova]

I'm just mad Pazio's trying to force stuff onto Infinite.

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah

[surreal basin]

Eh

It’s only paid stuff so

Whatever

[trail nova]

It's also free content.

Like, I can't write up an expansion on the Red Mantises or whoever with rules, share the link for free on the Pazio forums.

I'd need to make it a Pathfinder Infinite product, even if I had 0 interest in it costing money.

[upbeat ridge]

I believe their intent is to get all the third party stuff that uses the settings into one place so they can have oversight of it

WOTC is looking for ANY reason to sue them.

[trail nova]

See, I think you can write a full length novel and publish it for free anywhere using setting material and it's fine.

You just can't do a lot of common community projects, a lot of homebrew is cut off, ect. I get the hard splits on ORC/OGL stuff, I'm not mad about that.

[upbeat ridge]

But where this comes into play is rpg content specifically

Tbh

I’m waiting till ruleslawyer puts out a video on this to try and understand it lol

[trail nova]

Yeah. So Homebrew, online tools, ect. I think this will kill the Dyslexic character sheets as well as a lot of assesibility stuff as well.

It's a very weird chunk of "no, this is very suddenly getting disallowed", even if other stuff, like being able to sell handmade stuff using the Pazio IP, are great changes.

[upbeat ridge]

They have said they’re working to carve out space for translations, and I’m sure they’re gonna do that for accessibility tools also

[trail nova]

It's also really weird the line they're drawing. Again, you can post content that mixes rules and setting to forums and discords, even "RPG material" but the second it's in a google doc who's link you're posting, it's publishing and needs to be on Infinite.

[upbeat ridge]

Looking on the pf2e discord, I have seen that a mod(?) has said that paizo said the dyslexic character sheets are fine

Take that with a grain of salt

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah that’s weird tbh

But i think google docs are a weird legal grey area they don’t wanna fuck with

[trail nova]

See, I could buy a lot of this if it was a hard ban for anyone besides Pazio to mix setting and rules, or an attempt to stop people from selling 3pp, or whatever. But it's not. It's a forcing of that content onto Infinite. So long as Pazio is very clear about "OGL and ORC must not mix" and stop people from mixing OGL and ORC themselves, they are well and clear of Wizards coming after them for anything.

It's also completely crippling for PF and SF 1e communities, since they basically can't interact with the setting at all, even if they never even look at post-ORC materials.

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah…

[trail nova]

The big SF 1e character builder got told explicitly it could either completely stop any alterations to the site, or strip out all Pazio IP to become OGL compliant rather than live under the CUP.

[upbeat ridge]

I’m reading more on the 2e discord, and it seems like this was just basically poorly conceived

And now they can’t do much immediately cos gencon

But i feel like paizo is gonna fix it and get it into the best spot they can

[wooden orbit]

Opted to make a Dex, Charisma, Int focused Borai Vesk Witchwarper

Just not sure what armor or weapon to equip them with

[surreal basin]

I believe that Paizo will fix this after backlash

I have faith

[eager mountain]

choosing to play a precog

https://youtu.be/PSxuL_54sMk

[limber comet]

I really love Obozaya's new art

[sinful gyro]

Your blorbos in action

[limber comet]

A wonderful selection of blorbos

God I love the iconic art for sf2e

It's sleek but still stylish

[light gyro]

"god LORD what is happening in there!?"
"a birthday party"

[limber comet]

Also

I'm just gonna say it

Every sf2e iconic is attractive

Did the team know what they were cooking?

[sinful gyro]

Yes

[limber comet]

Like

If I was in the same room as Dae I think I'd spontaneously combust

And not bc of their literal star power

[wooden orbit]

Yeah, considering Pathbuilder is still going strong when Pathfinder 2E nexus exists. Can’t imagine they’ll keep this up for Starfinder 1E starbuilder

[sinful gyro]

I don't think some of the claims said here are true?

[wooden orbit]

I’m also trying to find info about it at the moment and still confused.
Is it related to the Starfinder Infinite thing? Did see some chatter about that. But that seems to be more an issue of Infinite using things that are related to the OGL? I think

[sinful gyro]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1e9ogu7/new_revised_paizo_compatibility_license/

This is the best infoi can find on it

With one of the devs in the comments explaining things

From what I can tell, the only issue is if you release something that does the following:

1. combined OGL and ORC content
2. that has mechanics
3. is distributed in a digital file format like a pdf

Mainly cos Paizo doesn't own the OGL

[silver geyser]

Yeah, I figured that's what the overlap looked like.

[trail nova]

“Your product can’t be an RPG or other game product (adventure module, sourcebook, character builder, rules database, video game, board game, etc.) If you want to release an RPG product that uses any of Paizo's IP including both rules and non-rules elements, you’ll need to use the ORC/OGL, Compatibility License, or Pathfinder and Starfinder Infinite community content programs.” This is pretty clear that homebrew needs to be either fully de-settinged (OGL/ORC), or on Infinite.

Since FCP is the new thing letting fans use the setting for non-commercial stuff like the wikis.

And the issue with Infinite is that DriveThroughRPG storefronts are not good interfaces, particularly for smaller homebrew.

[craggy thunder]

tfw the mystic is the most heavily armed in the space elevator

[craggy thunder]

MAY I HAVE SOME CHEESE

XD

[trail nova]

There’s kind of two different things hit very hard by the new FCP - Digital tools, and homebrew that references content with Pazio’s IP. The first is understandable but disappointing, given that’s how AoN and the foundry project got started, prior to their licensing, and this is Pazio effectively killing any chances of similarly valuable fan projects. The second is really painful - Pathfinder Infinite just is not a good platform for distributing small projects, and it kills a lot of the playtest and refine loop in homebrew projects.

[upbeat ridge]

I at least wish they put their changes up for like, public comment before they went live?

[trail nova]

Also that, yeah. Or gave some sort of warning before killing the CUP.

Like this is a rugpull, but instead of hitting people profiting from their stuff (who used ORC, OGL, or Infinite licenses anyways), it hits the community who was making tools and content out of love and for free.

I think the only people who were already making money that this effects strongly are people publishing 1e material (And some 2e stuff, there's weirdness around "de-OGL-ifying" content), to Infinite.

[sinful gyro]

There is warning cos it doesn't go into effect right away tbh

[cyan raven]

no it did go in to effect right away. the "no more ogl stuff" had a warning

the stuff JMS is talking about in particular at least they've specifically responded to about fixing? i think?

[sinful gyro]

"So, if you have a Pathfinder product in the works featuring chuuls, the eight schools of magic, or yes, even drow, you have until the end of August to release them. We won’t be removing OGL-based content from the marketplace in September, but you won’t be able to release new material using the OGL after that point."

There's a couple months notice for it to come into effect

Also finish a sf2e session

Got through 80% of part 1 of Cosmic Birthday

Was fun!

For anyone GMs running it, I highly recommend removing or changing the ||animated statue|| encounter

It does not play well for level 1 players

[warped orbit]

Hardness making trouble?

[sinful gyro]

Yup

||Anyone using a gun will just deal 0 damage to it||