Makes sense
#Pathfinder
clever cobalt
fast hill
I think it's a cool concept
rustic cape
The real question is does SF2e have grappler ships
fast hill
also gives an excuse to have players be both decentralised and do stuff with their free captain but then mobilise into a larger force when it would be cool to do so
I'm definitely running a playtest campaign as soon as the stuff comes to Foundry
rustic cape
Can my spaceship use a spaceship-scale sword to cut another spaceship in half
sinful gyro
I'm definitely running a playtest campaign as soon as the stuff comes to Foundry
August 1st
sinful gyro
Same day as the pdf and adventures and the adventure modules on foundry
fast hill
wait real????
sinful gyro
Yes
fast hill
holy shit
sinful gyro
It'll be part of the pf2e module
And then later on it will get its own module
So you can play it all in 2 days
fast hill
holllly shit
frank crystal
Oh do we finally know if there’s gonna be ship combat rules?
echo briar
I believe the devs said they are saving them for a future book
frank crystal
Ah ok
limber comet
I think that's the best play, honestly
Ship combat needs to be it's own thing and get hammered out extensively
sinful gyro
Yeah, the sf1e book was trying to do too much at once
Tbf I think that's because they weren't what books they were going to make in the future, if it would be successful etc
It also had rules for mech combat and stuff
echo briar
Although honestly I feel like the PF2 book isn’t doing enough, at least in the class department
I remember one of the devs said that they probably won’t make occult or arcane mystic paths because then the spell lists would be unbalanced, although I could be miss remembering
Arcane I can get, but the music based path being primal, when all of the music spells are occult because they couldn’t add another caster seems like a waste to me
limber comet
wait what?
Yes, in pc2
surreal basin
I haven’t seen the details of it yet
craggy thunder
What's the gist?
warped orbit
presumably it'll be training in Thievery, gain the Dirty Trick skill feat, Dirty Trick gains Bravado
no idea about their finisher bonus though
frank crystal
Hmm, what are some good magic items for a int based psychic?
craggy thunder
OH SHIT I JUST REALIZED THE 2E MYSTIC ICONIC IS THE 1E ONE'S KID!!!
frank crystal
Oh that’s cool
clever cobalt
Yep
sinful gyro
Have you all seen the space cat BTW?
craggy thunder
Huh
Apparently most shirren marriages are three-person affairs
At least
Marriages or couplings which result in children have to be three-person affairs
What with them having three sexes and all
clever cobalt
yeah
sinful gyro
Damn some of us haven't even sex'd once and they get three? /s
craggy thunder
lolol
sinful gyro
People seem to like the Solarion iconic
craggy thunder
As a person currently in a throuple, Shirren are based
craggy thunder
People seem to like the Solarion iconic
they definitely look fun
And if they were a little bulkier I'd say they have like
the vibes of certain Destiny Titans where half the fit is streetwear
turbid dagger
Does anyone have the featlist for Dragonblooded?
Trying to figure out if any hinge on the dragon parent
Since the remaster dragons are
A lil funky
Not sure which I'd pick for my dragonblooded char
Blue fits best of the original roster, and I believe Conspirator dragons line up closest to blues now
But conspirators are FUCKING WEIRD
craggy thunder
Starfinder character/party idea
pop metal band turned party, led by their frontwoman, a Shirren Envoy with a combination guitar and bass
warped orbit
You no longer need to have Panache to get the basic Precise Strike damage and skill bonus
frank crystal
Druids learn spells equal to the number of slots they can prepare right?
echo briar
They can prepare that many spells. They do not need to learn spells however (unless its uncommon or rare, but most GMs just ignore that)
frank crystal
oh druids have access to their whole list whenever?
echo briar
yes
frank crystal
oh great
frank crystal
Hmm, for a fire focused blasting spellcaster, do y’all think dragon sorc or flame druid with dragon disciple would be better?
frank crystal
Oh yah just having an extra slot is nice
And dangerous sorcery is pretty strong just on its own
frank crystal
Yah an extra hit die is nice especially for the spells that require you be kinda close
And shields
thorny berry
and medium armor, and wis primary for will saves
frank crystal
Well shield block
frank crystal
and medium armor, and wis primary for will saves
Oh shit yah if I go str instead of dex I get medium without any penalties
Even with just 1 point
thorny berry
untamed druid gaming
frank crystal
Untamed?
craggy thunder
lmao
eager mountain
https://youtu.be/vL92xyS0IEM outfit is giving me like Irreseni beastkin witch vibes
like a winter owl type
silver geyser
Well, my Kingmaker players learned the sheer terror of Troll Sightings today.
eager mountain
Well, my Kingmaker players learned the sheer terror of Troll Sightings today.
yeah ?
I quit my second kingmaker group today ^_6'
also
GENCOOOONNNN
solar tendon
You no longer need to have Panache to get the basic Precise Strike damage and sk...
hm. this might be a nerf to swash dedication
depending on what it gives you now
rustic cape
Question -- how do folks think Magus Dedication would go over on an animist?
In particular using Darkened Forest form for gouging claw and melee stats?
echo briar
depending on what it gives you now
It gives you one skill, and panache. It does not give you any benefit for having panache, nor any way to use panache
so the dedication itself gives you one skill, but if you take other feats the panache retroactively becomes useful
eager mountain
solar tendon
so the dedication itself gives you one skill, but if you take other feats the pa...
yeah so thats a big nerf to the dedication
cause previously you got the speed bonus and the skill bonus as inherent features of panache
kinda a sleeper hit for any skill based build imo
but a multiclass dedication being any good was an outlier tbf
warped orbit
You do still get the speed I think, but yeah
light gyro
If there are zero Yivali fans left on Earth, it's because I'm dead (yay I got to meet Yivali)
rapid wagon
multiclass dedications are ok enough arent they?
echo briar
depends. caster dedications are OK. most marital ones kinda suck
turbid dagger
Yeah broadly
Even a lot of the weirder ones like magus have some stuff going on
echo briar
champ and rouge being the main exceptions
turbid dagger
Free archetype also moves the needle a lot
rapid wagon
im less concerned with like the nebulous "good", and more like "can approach the game with a reasonable degree of success"
warped orbit
It's mostly stuff like Fighter dedication that isn't great
Because it only gives you some profs
And has weirdly difficult stat requirements
solar tendon
and theres like 3 archetypes that give you the same stuff
echo briar
and a general feat
turbid dagger
Ehhhhh
It also opens up the fighter feat list
And gives AoO
There are some banger level 1 and 2 fighter feats
solar tendon
but faster
echo briar
the architype itself is fine. we're just talking about the dedication
solar tendon
opportunist is a really good reason to go fighter ded yeah
level 4
but compared to dual weapon warrior
echo briar
I don't think the game should have feat taxes
solar tendon
fighter ded is a tax
warped orbit
Dedication quality varies a lot
Some actually give you good stuff, some you just take to get to the rest of it
turbid dagger
Wait what
Oh I see
I'm pretty sure me and stormtalus were thinking you meant the whole archetype by dedication
warped orbit
Oh yeah I just meant the Dedication itself
Though honestly the main thing i would personally change for Fighter archetype is making it require Str or Dex, not both
echo briar
and making the proficiently scale like the general feat or the champ architype
rustic cape
Speaking of caster dedications, in the SoT game I’m joining, my Animist will be picking up druid dedication and either witch or wizard. What do folks think about occult vs. arcane in this case?
echo briar
depends how much you're going into it TBH
warped orbit
Speaking of caster dedications, in the SoT game I’m joining, my Animist will be ...
I'd personally say Occult I think
echo briar
arcane I would consider slightly better over all, but occult has a few higher level heavy hitters that could make it better if you get there
however if your focusing on utility, arcane
rustic cape
Notably I’m not gonna have the Int to really do attack spells
So if Arcane is better for utility that’s a big plus
turbid dagger
Just cram your slots with Magic Missile 🧠
rustic cape
I can do that either way :P
thorny berry
oh shit I didn't realize we were right at gencon
warped orbit
Yeah
thorny berry
what are we actually expecting this time, I know this would usually be where we get the new class playtests but obviously the battlecry stuff got put out earlier for whatever reason
echo briar
They're probably announcing the actual book. Battle cry is just a placeholder name
clever cobalt
I wish I could go to Gen Con 
warped orbit
Book announcement seems likely
I suspect a lot of it will be taken up by PC2 and SF2 playtest though
clever cobalt
Are we gonna learn more about War of Immortals?
echo briar
I think they will call it Immortals of War, and then announce Magic of Secrets, Elements of Rage, and Dead of the Book
rustic cape
I'd personally say Occult I think
Any particular reason?
warped orbit
Any particular reason?
I like the selection a bit more personally
though if you already have Divine access that does cover a lot of their buffs
getting something like Synesthesia on a scroll is still pretty good though
sinful gyro
24 hours remain
Both the precision damage (More dice) and cover reduction improve as you level.```Yoooo
Aim is even better
turbid dagger
Ooooo
And makes that melee operator subclass look better
Aim with agile melee sounds very fun
sinful gyro
How so?
Wouldn't they not benefit from cover with a melee attack?
The extra damage is good thou
thorny berry
we're so back
sinful gyro
Yeee they mentioned the crab one a while ago
Sounds fun
Bug people get a ranged acid attack to
turbid dagger
Wouldn't they not benefit from cover with a melee attack?
Spamming out tons of attacks with Easier To Get Sneak Attack appeals to me
Depends on what kind of melee metastrikes they wind up having
sinful gyro
True
Aim seems like a good 3rd action choice for a lot of ranged attackers
Which is probably the intent
Where as a melee use might use an action to move to flank, a ranged guy uses aim
surreal basin
I think martial multi class archetypes are good as like
Full packages
Because of the access to feats that are otherwise very hard to get like nimble dodge
clever cobalt
Prey for Death also releases tomorrow right?
frank crystal
Goddamn a lot of stuff is coming out tomorrow huh?
turbid dagger
Hey, were there any super notably changes to monk? Particularly Monastic Archer? Or stance agnostic stuff like ki strike and so on
I uh
Made a monastic archer in a west march server I'm on and was not very happy with how they played
And am considering switching them to a thaumaturge
But I love monastic archer in concept so am trying to find ways to talk myself back into liking it
frank crystal
There’s basically no changes to monk tbh
Just a couple new feats
And they’re high level feats to so they probably won’t affect the average build much
Dual stance was made a level 16 feat at least though
turbid dagger
Dang.............
I'm just like
A bow build does not need extra movement speed or AC like a monk has
And a monk does not need range like a bow provides
And action compression is neat and all but not if you don't need to
Move
And the bows not being agile and kind of low damage makes throwing flurries out with them feel bad
Which is a shame cuz I love the concept I came up with for the dude
surreal basin
Well presumably it has the benefit of crit fishing
And monk doesn’t NEED range but it certainly don’t hurt
turbid dagger
Yeah....
I just struggle to think of why do this instead of like
Double Shot Fighter
Other than the simple desire to Call Myself A Monk
frank crystal
Honestly I’d compare it closer to flurry ranger
Just a thousand attacks over anything
worthy stump
with Monastic Archer stance, you can use feats/abilities normally limited to unarmed attacks for your bow strikes too
so Stunning Fist, Ki Strike, etc.
frank crystal
One inch punch bow?
turbid dagger
Honestly I’d compare it closer to flurry ranger
Flurry also has an edge over monk
Literally
In that it has something to do with the actions it saves (hunt prey)
And has better MAP
The key problem I think for me was that the action compression was not actually helping me ever so I just did superfluous actions
Flurry, raise buckler, then like
Move a little
worthy stump
indeed, OIP should work with it
turbid dagger
What originally drew me to it was Stunning Fist + Pinning Fire yeah
The idea of landing both of those with one flurry is very promising
turbid dagger
But early levels are miserable
worthy stump
and that means you should prolly invest into skills that give you something to do with your extra actions. Medicine, Intimidation, Bon Mot with Diplomacy, etc.
turbid dagger
My idea was to invest in int and sneak RKs in
Since the character idea I had involved them worshipping Gruhastha
Really I think I should maybe try and struggle through the early levels and see if I don't like it better once I have some more feats
worthy stump
it seems like a build that takes a bit longer to get off the ground, yeah
turbid dagger
I am slowly startin to hate low level pf2e after so much playtime in it
I need to get into fist of the ruby phoenix or something 😭
worthy stump
depending on the campaign, could be interesting to invest into elemental fist if you're gonna be doing RKs a bunch. makes it easier to proc any weaknesses you run into
young chasm
holy shit
who put in flicker strike in the sf2e playtest
who on the dev team is a poe player
also my vote for strongest multiclass dedication is rogue
1 skill feat, surprise attack, light armor training, stealth or thievery training
worthy stump
they definitely cooked with the SF2e stuff it seems
and yeah, Rogue archetype is great
sinful gyro
You got the sf2e pdf or just reading other sources
young chasm
https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfinder2e/s/HaVm7M8V3l
reading through this ama
sinful gyro
Gotcha
young chasm
op posted the flicker strike solarion feat
thorny berry
re: bow monk, the answer might be to try to archetype into more action outlets
monk already has great action economy, bow monk has that but even better
barren cipher
flurry of blows + cantrip hoho
thorny berry
yeah I was thinking that
alchemist, medic, fireworks technician
oh I remember the one I was thinking of the other day
slap that on there since you're playing about the safest build imaginable lol
with action econ for self healing as needed
and herbalist isn't a joke now, too
bearing in mind that focus spells heighten to full rank even if they're from archetypes
also monastic archer is one of the few non-stance options so you could look around for that, utility-focused kineticist could be a decent pickup
turbid dagger
also monastic archer is one of the few non-stance options so you could look arou...
Monastic Archer is a stance alas
For some reason
Unless it isnt now
I suppose I COULD do a magic archetype?
thorny berry
oh, that's lame
turbid dagger
Its very scuffed
And you can only use monk abilities within half of the bows listed range increment
Which means longbows just have to Deal with volley
No point blank
(That is to say, shortbows and sukgung only in practice)
worthy stump
just never let your enemies leave the space exactly 35-50 ft away from you, then the longbow is perfectly functional /j
surreal basin
Would it be too silly to have a weak kraken as a random encounter for 15th levelplayers
Like they just come across a merchant ship being attacked by a kraken as they cross the ocean on their dragon-plane (long story)
sinful gyro
Sounds like a fun classic
rustic cape
Is there a good versatile heritage for “spent the last 10 years in Baba Yaga’s house possibly a bit magic now”
?
turbid dagger
Is there a good versatile heritage for “spent the last 10 years in Baba Yaga’s h...
Chaaaaaangeling?
surreal basin
reflection because they’re not the same entity that entered the house
rustic cape
Chaaaaaangeling?
Oh that seems obvious in retrospect
solar tendon
lmao
rustic cape
Or reflection, ye
surreal basin
okay
new question
every kraken in my setting is unique
this one is named Kraxe, the Crooked One
what should i give it to make it special
solar tendon
hook limb
sinful gyro
Metal hook for a limb?
turbid dagger
Has a bunch of weapons and wreckage lodged in it that it uses in its abilities
surreal basin
(this is because kraken etmyologically means crooked tree)
turbid dagger
One of its tentacles is just fused with an anchor or something
sinful gyro
Maybe a coral reef growing on its back
surreal basin
Maybe a coral reef growing on its back
Oooo I like this, what could this mean mechanically
surreal basin
mhmhmhm
well, still open to suggestions!
the problem with stuff like an anchor idk how to represent that other than like
more damage on a specific strike
which isn't interesting per say
turbid dagger
For the coral idea, maybe give it a move where it like
Does a big tackle that sends a spray of shrapnel out
Like nergigante
limber comet
Ah, peak mentioned
surreal basin
construct armor that explodes with it ults?
fast hill
thinking about how a pirate campaign would go
(for starfinder)
like I know the vibe but coming up with fun things to do is the hard part
limber comet
Fly Free or Die isn't necessarily pirate-y but it's more on the neutral spectrum and has some ideas to yoink
Or like
Traders of the Void?
The space trucker ap for 1e, whatever it's called
surreal basin
fast hill
fly free or die looks really cool
limber comet
Yeah it's very much a sort of "the pcs are allowed to be neutral or dicks" ap
Unfortunately though it does punish you for being evil
Or selfish, rather
fast hill
I plan on doing a space pirate campaign where they are working under a free captain for a bit
does kinda stifle freedom but also no rules for spaceships means you cant really... do much in that regard
sinful gyro
clever cobalt
Nice
rotund geode
The Poster
warped orbit
turbid dagger
Imagine posting a meme so rancid the person on the other end starts spending all their actions to attack the nearest character
sinful gyro
I forget the exact number but I confirmed during Paizocon that _much_ more than half the ~64 new skill feats work _fine_ in Pathfinder2e with no adjustment.
64 new skill feats 
limber comet
The memes, Jack
frank crystal
So for people who have it, how many weapons do soldiers have?
Because they seem pretty hyper focused on weapons capable of AOE
sinful gyro
I dunno if anyone here has it
frank crystal
I thought you did tbh
sinful gyro
But they can be melee and stuff to I think
Nah I've just been stalking people who do have it
frank crystal
Ah ok
limber comet
Because they seem pretty hyper focused on weapons capable of AOE
If I'm not mistaken there's a feature that adds the aoe stuff to certain weapons
sinful gyro
You can also turn grenades into 1/day rather than 1 once with an item
So string together a bunch of those
frank crystal
If I'm not mistaken there's a feature that *adds* the aoe stuff to certain weapo...
Oh cool
craggy thunder
I have finally put together my shirren rockstar envoy for 1e
turbid dagger
Do we know if duelist got any changes in pc2
I know they aren't getting the Prof treatment like archer and mauler, but
Do they still need light armor and simple weapons
(Temple sword monk got me acting unwise)
rustic cape
Just got my PC2 PDF
AMA
Also Feral Child is a very strong background
Upgrade your vision by one step and get imprecise scent 30 feet
warped orbit
Oh damn
turbid dagger
I don't think it was changed
Dangit
I'm in a really weird position
I want to get a +2 AC option for a dragonblood monk
A regular shield is cool, but I'd kind of want to do Bastion if I went that direction
And monk makes getting Bastion really weird cuz it needs shield block
My idea right now is starting with medic, then getting bastion and nimble shield hand at level 6
And rocking a buckler till then
rustic cape
The new meta is being raised by ducks
turbid dagger
Doesn't it keep you from getting max KAS for a lot of classes
I seem to recall Feral Child having like
Only a con boost with no second boost
rustic cape
Ah wait it's only one boost, yeah
To any physical score tho
So that's much more manageable
Might even be worth it with some characters
frank crystal
whats the difference between archons and angels?
solar tendon
archons are older than true angels
frank crystal
oh neat
solar tendon
but they're both kinda vibes based
I think true angels are almost always winged humanoids while archons can be but can also be weirder
I say true angels because angel is also used as a more generic term for all Good outsiders which includes archons etc
but yeah archons are the pre-deific original inhabitants of heaven while true angels were created by the first Good gods
frank crystal
ah, I do assume just based on their description they are still aligned though?
with them both having a vested interest in protecting mortals and the heavens from evil beings
solar tendon
yeah!
there's also the aspect that archons are The heavenly outsider while angels can come from any of the good planes
clever cobalt
Does anyone actually use Nexus
Also iirc they're coming to Foundry tomorrow anywyas
sinful gyro
Neat
warped orbit
Wonder how long it'll take AoN this time
sinful gyro
Yeah should be live 14 hours 20m from now I think
warped orbit
They do I believe have a new data entry person now
thorny berry
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1eh0fz6/psa_pathfinder_nexus_has_...
Doesn't have class feats
Or at least not for oracle when I checked
frank crystal
Oh huh
Kinda funny
They changed Brimoraks in the remaster
They’re medium now
That was the only change
Our short king demons are no more
solar tendon
Doesn't have class feats
yeah alchemist seems to be pre remaster ones
the chassis looks pretty cool though!
the faster quick alchemy traits are a lot better
also interesting how even if you run out of versatile vials you can still just make them on the fly but can only use them as their basic acid bomb mode or your disciplines use for them
which I think makes chirugeon now the fastest healer?
cause once per round they can create a versatile vial and then use it on themselves or another for [bomb damage] resourceless healing
thorny berry
Oh yeah honestly other than oracle the remaster class changes seem great
Big fan of what they did for alchemist, investigator, and swashbuckler
solar tendon
oh wait no, coagulant is a tag that adds a 10 minute cooldown
although chirurgeon does get to bypass that from level 11 if the target is below half health
ohh cool the mutagen specific feats have been combined into categories
i like remaster alchemist a bunch, very pleasantly surprised
rustic cape
Wonder how long it'll take AoN this time
10 million years
surreal basin
I’m still salty about the PC1 wait lmao
frank crystal
Ok so i want to give my PCs a choice when tracking a villain to hire a roru to help
but what would be something a roru would want in exchange of tracking someone?
turbid dagger
but what would be something a roru would want in exchange of tracking someone?
The pelt of some sacred animal
frank crystal
oh that would do
frank crystal
also is there a reason some oni arent unholy or fiends and some are?
because their lore makes it seem like they all are
echo briar
Although if it’s until your next attack (sightly better feint) it until the end of the next turn changes how good this is by a lot
worthy stump
iirc, they're changing Oni lore so they're not actual fiends from the outer planes, right? same with Rakshasa?
silver geyser
They never were in Golarion lore.
Rakshasa were a group of people who managed to find a way to cheat the afterlife and have an eternal reincarnation process, all devoted to hedonism.
Oni are Kami that have, for lack of a better word, fallen.
worthy stump
oh, true, yeah. even in 1e they were native outsiders
got mixed up by them being options for tiefling heritages
frank crystal
Yah thats what I mean
silver geyser
They are Fiendish because they're evil outsiders.
frank crystal
with lore like that I feel like they should at least have the unholy trait
but some just have giant traits
silver geyser
Oni have to inhabit bodies to exist physically.
frank crystal
like the mountain oni only has humanoid, giant and oni
tough perch
i might be misremembering or tripping
worthy stump
afaik, only the Snow Oni has the Unholy trait from the Monster Core ones
tough perch
but i vaguely remember something about onis and other beings that are based on eastern mythologies, folklore and religions were losing fiend trait because thats a western view or something
worthy stump
no clue why that one is different tho
tough perch
something about they not really conforming to what we would call a fiend, originally
silver geyser
But yeah, Oni should have unholy.
tough perch
but if you look at them with a western lens you'd go "yeah they look like a fiend"
i could be getting my wires mixed up though
frank crystal
afaik, only the Snow Oni has the Unholy trait from the Monster Core ones
the onidoshi has it and fiend
and the shadow yai has it and fiend
worthy stump
those aren't from MC, they're from older books
frank crystal
ohhhh
worthy stump
the only four that have been remastered so far are Snow, Mountain, Island, and Caldera
frank crystal
huh
worthy stump
but yeah, very strange that only Snow has Unholy and the others don't. seems like it'd make sense for them to have it
echo briar
Last minute starfinder predictions, do you think existing skills will get any rejigging?
I feel like crafts getting changed, and survival and thievery need some tweaking to make them work
I would kinda like if moving in 0g was survival, but it will probably be acrobatics
wooden orbit
So which ancestries are likely gonna be coming with the player core book for Starfinder 2E?
echo briar
Ancestry’s have been announced for a bit. Android, Barathu, Human, Kasatha, Lashunta, Pahtra, shirren, Skittermander, Vesk, Ysoki, Borai & Prismeni. With those last two being versatile heriates.
wooden orbit
Ooh, Prismeni sounds tempting.
Admittedly was hoping another bug ancestry would make it into the core with the Shirren 🥺
sinful gyro
Spoilers for the monsters in A Cosmic Birthday:
||In order of appearance with Level:
Maintenance Robot (-1), Space Station Gremlin (-1), Ghost Courier (-1), Animated Vesk Statue (3), Observer-Class Security Robot (1), Evangelist (-1), Newborn Disciple (-1), Assembly Ooze (3), Electrovore (2), Giant Dust Weevil (-1), Ferrofluid Ooze (2), Spicy Sweet* (1), Space Goblin Gunner (-1), Protectron-Class Security Robot (4), Spike, Eldritch Squox (4), Crimson Queen (-1), Crimson Queen Sniper (1), Memeta The Eternal* (4), Tentacles (1), Fungal Warden (4), Sporeling (-1), Umbral Echoes (2), Feral Ghoul (1), Hesper (2), Plasma Moth (2), Skeletal Horse (2), Cockatrice (3), Thane Hacher (2), Aucturnite Swarm (2), Amneika Midwife (6).
Hardlight Scamp (1) is in the Alien Archive at the back, but I couldn't locate it in the Adventure.
*Named Monster||
We got ||Assembly Ooze||!
light gyro
We got ||Assembly Ooze||!
or as we call it in #876910634091053076 , ||"tamiya cement"||
eager mountain
notttt sure this is much of a spoiler, I just find the look at Torag's morality interesting
sinful gyro
So I got the text for the ghost Operative
"You can Aim at a target that are unaware of you as a free action. If you sucessfully strike a target who is unaware of you or has the attitude of friendly towards you, they become slowed 1 for 1 round. On a Critical success they're stunned for 1 round."
Ghost tap is the Enhanced Exploit.
"Make a ranged strike against a creature, then attempt a Stealth check to hide. In an urban setting with multiple creatures, you can choose to make a deception check to hide. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to this check if the creature was unaware of you or has the attitude of friendly towards you.
- Success: If the creature could see you, you're now hidden from it, instead of observed. If you were hidden form or undetected by the creature you retain that condition.
- Failure: You become observed.
That to me reads a lot more like they do mean "unnoticed" instead of "undetected"
Which is a lot more limiting
I guess the pro is, no save no check
They just are slowed
But you do need to hit them so
echo briar
PC2 is out in pathbuilder
solar tendon
not out yet
it's been submitted to android
so when that's approved it'll be released for android and web
limber comet
Gencon stress strikes again
limber comet
Thr squit
echo briar
14 arms baby
clever cobalt
Where'd you find these?
sinful gyro
The starfinder pdf
clever cobalt
The only pdf I can find is 15 pages
sinful gyro
Yes, and this is in those 15 pages
sinful gyro
No worries 😛
I'm just enjoying what we do have while they fix it
There's for sure some errors in there
but Batharu look cool af
trail nova
Manifold Evolution is kind of insane, but also "the two best level 17 ancestry feats you can find" can only get so good.
echo briar
I’m kinda sad that in the first 15 pages, half of it is an ancestry we already had.
echo briar
they should have made a new alphabet for starfinder, that starts with s
sinful gyro
😛
I'll upload it here if I get the download done first
Cos the paizo website will be dying
I got it
All 266 pages
clever cobalt
Convergent Evolution is neat
trail nova
Too big for non-nitro :(
clever cobalt
Love Shirren
sinful gyro
Nice
trail nova
The layout is great
sinful gyro
Also sorry I'm gonna be like spam posting a lot
trail nova
Also, I'm curious to see what people make out of the symbols under each of the ancestries
sinful gyro
These?
trail nova
Yeah.
turbid dagger
Apparently Pathbuilder is getting pc2 either today or tomorrow
sinful gyro
Cool
turbid dagger
limber comet
Jesus christ
clever cobalt
Yep
limber comet
400 damage jfc
turbid dagger
LMAO
Hop into Stardew Valley for a break
Or do a Shadow Game
warped orbit
Hilarious
turbid dagger
Also isn't this like
3 pf spells smushed together
warped orbit
yeah kinda
turbid dagger
The pve game is maze, the duel thing also seems familiar
warped orbit
the enemy use is pretty much Maze
silver geyser
"Welcome to Pathfinder"
turbid dagger
And I know there's a spell that's 'you instantly gain the effects of resting for x amount of time' too
turbid dagger
Augmentations are a thing, I wasn't sure they would be
It's not a HUGE surprise
Grafts kind of seemed like an attempt at laying groundwork to me
sinful gyro
frank crystal
Honestly shit that’s actually so strong for a grappler build
Just permanent +1 to grapple
warped orbit
circumstance makes it pretty good, yeah
sinful gyro
Mythic Archtypes get their own "mythic points" to do abilities (pf2e)
limber comet
Oh there's just a straight up new domain in the deity section
sinful gyro
They also get a +10 mythic proficency they can add to stuff
frank crystal
Oh there's just a straight up new domain in the deity section
what domain?
frank crystal
Oh cool
limber comet
I think Investigator and Psychic slot into sf2e the easiest
In terms of vibes, anyways
sinful gyro
sinful gyro
I think Investigator and Psychic slot into sf2e the easiest
I think Inventor to
Alchemist maybe
Fighter and Gunslinger probably slot in fine
limber comet
I just think that psychics and detectives are common sci-fantasy tropes
frank crystal
I mean my thing is that starfinder is still very much a fantasy setting
limber comet
I could be wrong
echo briar
This honestly gives me so much hope for SF2 specific stuff for PF2 classes
frank crystal
So wizard’s academic understanding of magic fits imo
sinful gyro
For sure
limber comet
Oh no, the other classes fit
I'm just saying Investigator and Psychic slot in the best
In my opinion
turbid dagger
And assumedly sorcerers are still like
Metaphysically possible
The martials are the most subject to 'get with the times old man'
But yeah, those two fit best
Like, a ranger or barbarian may raise some eyebrows I feel
limber comet
Mmm
Maybe
A Castrovelian Lashunta ranger would work
New book
Oh nvm
It's just divine mysteries
worthy stump
technobarbarian is a classic trope. or just john carter of mars around
and i could see ranger working too
gunslinger's prolly the PF2e class that has the hardest time slotting into SF2e. since it has so much of its features based on reloading and all
sinful gyro
Well let's look at some sf2e guns
worthy stump
unless you're pulling out the ol' space flintlock
frank crystal
I think its a lot of breach loaders in SF2E
frank crystal
oh theres no one handed martial ranged weapons?
limber comet
In 1e art there was a picture of the iconic champion in the sf2e setting so it's not impossible
sinful gyro
frank crystal
oh
sinful gyro
oh theres no one handed martial ranged weapons?
Boom pistol
sinful gyro
Looks like it
limber comet
They're definitely gonna add more
frank crystal
oh yah playtest
warped orbit
card slinger
excuse me?
sinful gyro
You are excused
frank crystal
also yah I assume 1 projectile/charge weapons work like PF2E reload 1 weapons?
sinful gyro
sinful gyro
also yah I assume 1 projectile/charge weapons work like PF2E reload 1 weapons?
Probably?
limber comet
Holy shit
warped orbit
this immediately reminds me of the gun from Psycho Pass
sinful gyro
Almost everything is Reload 1
frank crystal
also automatic weapons can be used with soldier to become AOe right?
sinful gyro
Let's see
frank crystal
I remember that being a thing in the preview material
sinful gyro
Basically all it's feats say
"Requirements You are wielding a weapon with the area or automatic trait."
frank crystal
Ohhhh so yah probably then
sinful gyro
Cool
frank crystal
Oh so it seems like it’s either area weapon for pure AOE builds or automatic weapons for a hybrid single target AOE build
sinful gyro
Ye
frank crystal
Because automatic can also make a strike while doing it
sinful gyro
You either want: explosive aoe weapons or Automatic spray weapons
There's some room for melee to
frank crystal
Yah I know they have a subclass that lets them swap to melee when approached
Which tbh sounds sick
frank crystal
Hmm, do we know what unwieldy means?
sinful gyro
So you trade off your Punitive strike I guess
turbid dagger
Okay that is a very very nice change to the melee subclass
Not just 'uh uh well you see you can swap to melee if someone runs up on you' but actually letting you use your area gimmick stuff with melee
turbid dagger
So you trade off your Punitive strike I guess
Punitive specifically lets you ignore unwieldy
(Sorry if I pinged you twice in that)
turbid dagger
Also am I missing something or do all these two action area/auto attacks just
Let you ignore MAP also
As in you can strike one dude normally then BRRRT at him again
sinful gyro
Well if it has Unwieldy, you can't strike with it then BRRRT
Cos you can't use it more than 1/round
turbid dagger
Yeah, I guess a lot of the weapons soldier will be wanting to use will have Unwieldy
My thought specifically was like
Striking then Whirling Swipe with a normal melee
Or would
Hm
barren cipher
you can always kick 'em in the ankle
turbid dagger
If it gets the unwieldy trait after already making one attack, does that prevent it from making a second one or no
limber comet
Okay so
How do we feel on Soldier so far
Does it feel like a downgrade
As opposed to just playing a fighter
sinful gyro
I've only glanced at it, I'm still reading ancestries
But it looks like it plays different imo
barren cipher
i think if you're the sort of person who likes to play blaster wizards then you will have a good time
sinful gyro
If you want to play a fighter, honestly pick Operative
They're a fighter rogue hybrid imo
Solider seems a lot more like a guardian with guns
warped orbit
How do we feel on Soldier so far
It's a pretty different role
Soldier is more a tank
limber comet
Someone in another server I'm in (a 1e player) was displeased and I just wanted to gauge how y'all feel about it
New adventure announcements
A standalone thing called Claws of the Tyrant - it's an anthology series...??
Set in the Gravelands
silver geyser
Oh, I was hopeful for a sec there that we'd get Kazavon stuff
limber comet
But not much detail on the low or high level ones
So that's still possible!
Probably not Tar Baphon himself tbh
Maybe a general or something
New ap
Shades of Blood
1st level
VAMPIRE AP
VAMPIRE AP
Not horror focused
Dungeon crawli
AZLANT
ITS ON AZLANT
ITS ON AZLANT
THE SHATTERED CONTINENT
warped orbit
I wanna kick Tar baphons butt
I'm gonna assume they're gonna keep that in the back pocket for later
sinful gyro
Yeah like, not the big guy himself
But come on something
There's no be the good guys in the gravelands adventures
limber comet
There is lol
Just the mid level part of the anthology is evil
Sorry if I didn't make that clear
warped orbit
I do very much hope we're gonna get a Mythic AP fighting Tar Baphon eventually
Maybe it'll even stick this time 😛
sinful gyro
Just the mid level part of the anthology is evil
Do we know what part 1 and 3 are?
limber comet
They did not specify
sinful gyro
Cos all I heard was 2 was evil
limber comet
The only specification was, well, that
sinful gyro
Hopefully 3 is a high power good guy one
sinful gyro
I do very much hope we're gonna get a Mythic AP fighting Tar Baphon eventually
...
I can pick it up right where you left off
limber comet
Do we wanna bet that alghollthu's are orchestrating the vampire scheme in Shades of Blood
sinful gyro
Probably
solar storm
Twitter
worthy stump
lmfao
the legend returns...
here's the writeup for the stuff paizo revealed just now if anyone wants to take a look
lots of interesting stuff here
craggy thunder
Has anyone made a 1e soldier with Damoritosh's Grip?
turbid dagger
Someone in another server I'm in (a 1e player) was displeased and I just wanted ...
If they're looking at it from a 1e perspective I can see why they'd be disappointed frankly
Cuz 1e Soldier and 2e Solider Are Different Classes
1e Soldier was basically 'every possible permutation of martial folded into one class'
While 2e's concept is much more honed on Heavy Weapons Guy
limber comet
If they're looking at it from a 1e perspective I can see why they'd be disappoin...
Honestly I thought 1e soldier had. No Identity
trail nova
I feel like Operative is kind of edging into Soldier's old space
sinful gyro
Ye, like Operative has several distinct subclasses to account for different martial approaches
turbid dagger
Honestly I thought 1e soldier had. No Identity
Yeah
It basically doesnt!
Its 'are you a Weapon Swinger'
'one of these subclasses will enable you to swing your weapon of choice'
trail nova
If you want a "good with assault rifle" type of guy, Operative seems like it's the intended space.
turbid dagger
There was like
A power armor Soldier subclass, a run and gun fast dude subclass, a fucking BOW subclass
limber comet
Honestly the core 1e clases lacked identity in quite a few ways
craggy thunder
To further exemplify Soldier in 1e having a catchall identity
warped orbit
The main thing I always heard was 1e Operative overshadowing every other skill thing
limber comet
I thought Technomancer was very...bland
craggy thunder
my character is a vesk mercenary who's so strong she can wield a doshko and a plasma bolter at the same time, while my cousin's is a gnoll sharpshooter who can shoot someone's eye out at 1000 yards with a laser rifle
We are both soldiers
trail nova
The main thing I always heard was 1e Operative overshadowing every other skill t...
That was just 1e making everyone else suck at skills
craggy thunder
?
sinful gyro
my character is a vesk mercenary who's so strong she can wield a doshko and a pl...
Yeah like, I'd make that two ops or a Solider and an op in 2e
trail nova
My envoy has like 30 skill ranks at 3rd level
The issue isn’t ranks, it’s the bonuses on top of that.
barren cipher
advanced weapon access still seems like a bit of a pain
trail nova
1e skill checks scaled too quickly for anyone who wasn’t investing beyond just ranks.
barren cipher
why haven't they learned
trail nova
Operatives just got that needed investment for very cheap.
frank crystal
Hmm, does operative has a two handed ranged weapon subclass?
trail nova
Sniper and Ghost, looks like
sinful gyro
Yeah that'd probably be sniper
But if its an automatic or area weapon, pick soldier
(For sf2e)
frank crystal
Oh yah sniper is less like, gunslinger sniper and more shoot big guns sniper
frank crystal
Hmm, I kinda wonder what’s the best class for a pure great weapon melee build?
Because soldier has a subclass for it but it’s more using the melee weapon as a backup
sinful gyro
I think they all get mobile reload to?
MOBILE RELOAD
Your gun is a part of you, and you’ve learned to reload while
performing other actions. Whenever you Interact to reload a
ranged weapon, you can also Step or Stride
sinful gyro
Ye
I think the Solider melee option is a full option
You just gotta use a 2 handed one
sinful gyro
Hmm, I kinda wonder what’s the best class for a pure great weapon melee build?
The other option is Solarion
I think
frank crystal
Oh I thought solarion had its own attack like kineticists
barren cipher
yeah i don't think you can use advanced ranged weapons properly as a soldier, you'd have to abandon primary target
sinful gyro
My bad looks like they create one
But yeah I see nothing that makes Solider a bad melee class at all
It has lots of good feats for it
And the melee subclass
barren cipher
the -1 to hit probably hurts a fair amount
frank crystal
Where it just was able to pull out its weapon as a reaction
limber comet
I doubt it's the most optimal but you definitely won't be left behind I think
sinful gyro
I think your feat options are more limited if you go melee I'll admit
barren cipher
playing it as straight melee only is probably going to be a bit of a struggle, doing an aoe/single target ranged/melee switch is probably where it's at
sinful gyro
the -1 to hit probably hurts a fair amount
Whatcha mean?
barren cipher
primary attribute is con, so you're behind on strength
sinful gyro
I guess, same for ranged weapons though?
barren cipher
yeah but your ranged weapons go off class dc
(except for primary target followup strike)
sinful gyro
They to hit with dex though
barren cipher
you don't strike unless it's for free
frank crystal
primary attribute is con, so you're behind on strength
I mean having a +3 is fine for most builds in PF2E
barren cipher
those classes tend to have fat damage adders
sinful gyro
I think I'm missing something with what you're saying Pilcrow
Do you mean that, cos you're using area effect weapons etc, you won't use dex, you just use your DC
barren cipher
ok, if you're a soldier the majority of your damage comes from shooting people with autofire or area attacks, which people reflex save against your class dc
sinful gyro
Yeah play
*yeah okay
But then you take Whirling Strike
And your melee uses your DC now
It just turns your melee into the auto fire effect automatic guns get
I guess it's a level 1 feat tax to do it but
barren cipher
oh that's only level 1? no wonder, i was looking in the fighting styles
barren cipher
yeah that's sort of silly to make a feat
sinful gyro
It should probably be rolled into the main class
Even if it makes the main class bulky text wise
Like, roll this into the main class
Give like a few more melee feats ideally
Cos at some levels you only really get 1 choice
eager mountain
sinful gyro
Cute
limber comet
I really hope Marsh Giants get a bespoke god in Divine Mysteries honestly...
Oh uhh
Hm
I haven't looked at the operative much
Been back and forth between Soldier and Witchwarper
clever cobalt
Rad
sinful gyro
Rocket jump without taking damage
barren cipher
you don't even need armour storm, you don't have to save
warped orbit
Ah its Friendly Toss
sinful gyro
With a gun
eager mountain
frank crystal
Hmm, can soldiers use con for armor?
barren cipher
yeah
frank crystal
Because with their main stat being dex for guns then- ok yah
barren cipher
and bulk limits
frank crystal
Because otherwise they’d never be able to wear heavy armor
sinful gyro
Tbf, you can dump dex and strength entirely
If you just want to use your area effect attacks
(although maybe keep strength for armor checks)
clever cobalt
How does Witchwarper look?
warped orbit
You still want a bit of Dex for incidental attacks probably
clever cobalt
Seems a bit complex to me but I'm curious about other's opinions
barren cipher
a bit of dex is nice if you're using martial weapons
frank crystal
(although maybe keep strength for armor checks)
Wait so you do need strength for heavy armor then?
sinful gyro
I assume so? Doesn't all heavy armor have a strength requirement?
eager mountain
frank crystal
Yah I was just asking if soldier could use con instead
eager mountain
sinful gyro
Oh my bad
frank crystal
Because otherwise they probably won’t be able to use heavy armor ever
sinful gyro
Yes Solider can use Con for armor
frank crystal
Ok sweet
sinful gyro
So yeah, you can dump strength if you're going guns, or dump dex if your'e going melee
frank crystal
Also having Dex seems more important for an automatic weapons build then an explosives build
sinful gyro
Ye
barren cipher
you can also dump charisma
frank crystal
Just because you will still be attacking even using suppressive fire
sinful gyro
Also if you're only using area fire, no need for dex either
But you probably want the option to
frank crystal
Yah probably
barren cipher
you want dex even for area fire weapons
sinful gyro
Do you mean with friendly fire?
sinful gyro
Yes
frank crystal
Oh dear
barren cipher
you can cut a few allies out with bombard
sinful gyro
So maybe have everyone stand behind a doorway or something
Ye
So assuming con +4, you can make 2 allies be safe
With an average party size of 4, only 1 ally will be hit
barren cipher
solarians
sinful gyro
Yeah like, pick whoever can survive it
barren cipher
and operatives
trail nova
I will say, I'm really liking the soldier's move into "Heavy gunner" and the operative's move into "Special Forces"
fast hill
anyone know if the foundry for the playtest has been released
frank crystal
With an average party size of 4, only 1 ally will be hit
This ability will break groups
sinful gyro
Probably 😛
sinful gyro
anyone know if the foundry for the playtest has been released
The foundry module for sf2e is out. The adventures are not yet
Ah wait
The module for sf2e is out. The adventure module is not out. But neither will work til Pf2e is updated to 6.2.0
Which should(?) Happen later today
rustic cape
Built my Strength of Thousands animist to level 20, looking real good
sinful gyro
Nice
craggy thunder
Oh cool there's a melee specialty for Soldier
sinful gyro
Yeee
Was just talking about it for a bit
You have to take whirling strikes, but if you do it works real well I think
sinful gyro
Is it not?
craggy thunder
Oh wait is it a feat now?
rustic cape
I only just noticed that Legendary Tattoo Artist gives Crafting a skill increase
Which is not bad at all
craggy thunder
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
surreal basin
Ohhhh I woke up to so much happening….
craggy thunder
Bit of a shame it's such high level
I wish it was lower level but with a 'you cannot attack with both in the same turn' clause
sinful gyro
Yeah it really seems like an end game thing
surreal basin
personally i prefer this
sinful gyro
Especially if you pair it with the level 20 one that let's you area fire as a,single action
surreal basin
because it means you get to be cool with it
craggy thunder
On the other hand I can't wait to play my giant Vesk lady with a plasma doshko and plasma cannon
I love the Pahtra image
Tiny Cat Big Sword
echo briar
Magic school book is coming for pathfinder
echo briar
One of the schools is on the back of a giant fey elephant who accidentally leads the school via his dreams
sinful gyro
It's about all the magic schools
clever cobalt
Oh neat
sinful gyro
They're teaming up to kill demons in the world wound
But there's also like some rivalries
echo briar
It's about all the magic schools
Well, 6 of them
echo briar
One of the schools is on the back of a giant fey elephant who accidentally leads...
This is the cobyslarni
craggy thunder
oh cool mystic has melee options
clever cobalt
I wanna say Kithordian is Taldor
Its also a front for recruiting Lion Blades', Taldor's Secret Service
sinful gyro
It kinda reads like they all took a gap year to help out in a war torn country
That country being Sarkoris
echo briar
Academy of the Reclamation looks Tian
World wound
fast hill
feels weird that sf2e doesn't have like, a real assault rifle
Autotarget Rifle: This short, bulky assault rifle incorporates
a piston system that allows the user to switch to auto-fire and
unload a magazine with one trigger squeeze
warped orbit
I love the Pahtra image
kbity...
fast hill
there's this?
warped orbit
feels weird that sf2e doesn't have like, a real assault rifle
what are you looking for in an assault rifle that you're not seeing in the list?
fast hill
I guess the machine gun is an assault rifle/can be flavoured aso ne
as one*
it's not really the mechanics
just the fluff of having a regular old gun
that shoots normal bullets
sinful gyro
I think the Autotarget rifle does that
surreal basin
Yeah that’s never really been starfinder
fast hill
yeah
eager mountain
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
ghot that damoritosh grip
fast hill
Yeah that’s never really been starfinder
that was like, the starfinder character I played
granted it was only for a few levels
but sf1e had a regular old rifle
iirc
sinful gyro
Like I guess realistically the magazine would be more like 30+1 or something but
trail nova
Yeah, 1e had a fair few options for "mostly normal gun"
sinful gyro
It's a rifle, it can go between full auto or semi auto, it fires bullets, it uses no tech
The only difference seems to be that the full auto works via some kinda piston instead of a spring
barren cipher
autofire being typically a 20' cone, i don't think we're at home to mr. realism
frank crystal
Isn’t the auto target rifle a kinda normal rifle?
fast hill
to be fair I think magazine size is abstract
sinful gyro
For sure
solar tendon
and the autotarget rifle literally calls itself an assault rifle
fast hill
yeah
sinful gyro
Is a piston standard? Fair I don't know guns that well
fast hill
it's just sad it's a simple weapon
can't be an operator with my not-m4 :(
well I guess I could
sinful gyro
I know like the pressure of the explosive forces the sorta pin back and then a spring pushes it forward again to hit the next bullet I think
fast hill
but it'd be, as the kids say, suboptimal
craggy thunder
Why would it be suboptimal?
sinful gyro
1d6 instead of 1d8?
frank crystal
It is a simple weapon
craggy thunder
It doesn't have the area trait so you can use it just fine with Aim
trail nova
There's also a weird lack of 1-handed martial guns.