Pathfinder

[eager mountain]

so idk

[clever cobalt]

I wonder if we'll get any uhhhh

DT related ancestries

[eager mountain]

probably

[clever cobalt]

Not sure how that would look but

Could be neat

[eager mountain]

migo with a lightening gun

[clever cobalt]

Yeah, Mi-Go could work

[eager mountain]

they were in starfinder

not playable of course

[clever cobalt]

The Dark Tapestry is iirc even more present in Starfinder than Pathfinder

Nyarlathotep is a core god

And now so is the Newborn I suppose

[eager mountain]

https://youtu.be/-x5JTxAViDA

[clever cobalt]

I really want more lore on the Newborn

[eager mountain]

this is like 4 years old lol

[clever cobalt]

I wanna make a non-malicious worshipper of them

[eager mountain]

have you seen the page on it ?

[clever cobalt]

From what I could parse from the image, it can be both holy or unholy

Yeah

Low res but I could read parts of it

[eager mountain]

hehehe

[clever cobalt]

Which us to say, a good guy worshipper of the Newborn is valid

Did they say what planet is replacing Aucturn?

I recall them saying something about that

[eager mountain]

IIRc this is a newbord worshiper

judging mostly on the chakram

the chakram being the weapon of the new born

[clever cobalt]

What rhe deal with the chakram?

Ah

The Newborn is a, well, Newborn Outer God right

Like Yog Sothoth or Nyarlathotep but a "child"

[eager mountain]

like Jenny played a character influenced by the new born with a Aucturnite chakram

Jenny is playing Shess, an Unbound Lashunta, Akashic Connection Mystic, follower of the Newborne!
Favored weapon is a chakram made from a piece of Aucturn.
Unbound Lashunta means Shess chose not to activate her Damaya or Korasha genetics, so she’s a little bit different from a lot of Lashunta and it manifests differently from them.
Akashic Connection is one where the Mystic has access to a connection to all knowledge, so they gain access to spells and abilities to assist in Recall Knowledge checks, and even give free RK checks to those the Mystic heals.

[clever cobalt]

I did read part about how the Fragments of Aucturn are now home to a starmetal

The above mentioned Aucturnite

[eager mountain]

yeah aucturnite , yeah

[clever cobalt]

Also some of the worshippers of the Newborn were made into "Midwives" upon its birth, which seem to be heralds of it somewhat?

Anyways I've really wanted to play a DT character for a long time

[eager mountain]

yeah the 13 priests on aucturn were turned into Midwives

[clever cobalt]

Either a character who's related to it somehow or worships/studies it

[eager mountain]

Zamir , the 1e witchwarper, updated for sf2e

[clever cobalt]

But the "twist" is that they're a good guy as opposed to like

Always chaotic evil cultists that most DT worshippers are portrayed as

[eager mountain]

Zamir 1e

[clever cobalt]

Nice

[eager mountain]

So the sword Zamir is holding ISNT a weapon

its his anchor.

[clever cobalt]

Which is?

Like a conduit or

[eager mountain]

Anchors was a precog thing.

since Time shit got integrated into witch warper as an option

[clever cobalt]

Mhm

Makes me wonder if Evolutionist will be a class or archetype

[eager mountain]

being tied to other realities and summoning infinite posibilities can be hard on a person

[clever cobalt]

Whenever they decide to add it

And I can imagine

[eager mountain]

sooooo a witchwarper chooses a paradox AND also can choose something that anchors them to the reality they are in

[clever cobalt]

Any examples given?

Of either

[eager mountain]

still listening

[clever cobalt]

Fair

Got a link?

May tune in

[eager mountain]

it appearently gives various benifits.

appearently they are gonna be in the playtest

[clever cobalt]

Fair

also this isn't what tehy're discussing live?

[eager mountain]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2155017706?filter=archives&sort=time oh im listening to the whole 8 hour stream

[clever cobalt]

Ah fair

[eager mountain]

im like 2 hours and 32 minutes in

uhhhh appearently Technomancer is still out there

Devs; ITS SAFE DONT WORRY

same for mechanic

[clever cobalt]

Evolutionist is what I'm really interested in

I feel like its fleshed out enough to be a class and not like, an archetype

but I doubt it'll be at launch anywyas

[trail nova]

I think that there's a lot of room for a "I change myself to fight" class

[clever cobalt]

yeah

[trail nova]

(I’ve long wanted to move the more magical parts of Barbarian, Mutagenist Alchemist, and Shifter into one core class.)

[limber comet]

Also lol reptoids are getting removed afaik

[surreal basin]

aight

have my first set of boys whose tactics I'm gonna analyze

[solar storm]

Who?

[surreal basin]

ya boys

already coming into some interesting analysis

(goblin war chanters are very strange)

[solar storm]

Sweet

[echo briar]

What PF2 class do you think would benefit the most from getting SF2 specific feats and class archetypes?

Like, a laser swashbuckler would be so cool

Theremin bard

There’s probably a lot of really cool space themed sorcerer bloodlines

[turbid dagger]

Today in Abomvaults:

[limber comet]

I'm so conflicted on Starfinder

Aesthetic wise, at least

[surreal basin]

On one hand I wanna post all my findings here, on the other hand it’s the point of the blog

There is some funny stuff tho like goblins truly having awful perception

And the goblin war chanters war chant not being useful

[eager mountain]

Why?

[limber comet]

I can't explain it in words but sometimes the aesthetics between different factions and regions clash and not in a good way

[eager mountain]

Which ones?

not judging or anything , just curious

but fair, no need to explain

[solar storm]

Just post a link with a choice sentence or two quoted

[warped orbit]

Someone's having a bad time

And apparently both Dying and Wounded

[turbid dagger]

The wounded symbol is actually persistent bleed

Which is even worse

[uneven wren]

I feel you on this it's really a pastiche, I think it's lack of consistency and the ability to play whatever flavor of scifi fantasy is both a strength ans a weekness

Like you could be on akiton doing madmax on mars with the ysoki, or you could be in distopian cyberpunk in the bowels of absolum, or you could visit the techno-utopia, or the eco-paradise, or the theocratic golden city in the sun, there's too much

it's got the forgotten realms problem of just jamming everything in

but also you can play as anything, do you want to be an otter? just a straight up otter. An android? a toaster oven?

also the system is a pain in the ass and I can't wait for them to switch to the three action system

enemy statblocks are frustrating

maybe I just don't know what I'm doing with them

I love my campaign tho

also I'm now part of the problem I added a planet to the solar system

It had been hidden by nyarlathotep (Well actually Nya-lathotep the cat girl avatar but that's splitting hairs)

[uneven wren]

knights of golarion personally, they seem like the odd one out no matter how you cut it

[surreal basin]

I mean tbh it’s like

The same as pathfinder is to fantasy

I love it personally, the whole thing sticks weird pulp-scifi v well

[uneven wren]

It gives a lot of freedom

I do get the desire for aesthetic cohesion, but for that there's other games like orbital blues

or stranding your players on akiton

[surreal basin]

Yeah I mean you’re in control of it mostly as the GM

[thorny berry]

Pf/sf settings being so kitchen sink is part of my strong preference for homebrew settings honestly

[true delta]

A day in the life of a tinfoil hat wearer with ADHD.

[eager mountain]

Ya know I’ve never seen the knights of golarion

[eager mountain]

I know right

[eager mountain]

Wierd, I’m like the opposite

I’ve always enjoyed pf and sf on the merit that there’s so much to it.

[eager mountain]

Totally agree on this last part tho can’t wait for the switch

But setting wise I’ve always had a interest in pathfinder and starfinders’ settings

[sinful gyro]

I think for envoy they said some would port over fine, others would need more work

I wonder how this plays into the ranged focused combat. I recall them saying flying will be a lot more free in general

I've said it before but I'm so ready to run some wacky sci fi stuff

That's my jam

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/18rKAwQN5j9TW5lOWtNzHZUgFOKxNcLG6N9RLB3MXBh0/mobilebasic

Here's a write up of starfinder Playtest stuff btw

For those who don't wanna dig through the stream

Dustin uses the brutaris ball, which is a reusable grenade shell! The same action to draw it also throws it, ‘cause it is a grenade.

Thank christ

[crystal walrus]

Sp the soldier maps into pf2e with little issue?

But does pf2e map into sf2e with little issue

I feel like going forward through the gap is the more common use case.

[sinful gyro]

I think pf2e probably maps onto sf2e easier

The playtest seems focused on lots of different buffs and debuffs

Which is good imo

Flanking is going to be a lot rarer in a range based game

[eager mountain]

lol

A reusable grenade?

[sinful gyro]

Yup

Looks like you can load it with other grenades

[eager mountain]

How does that work?

Oh ok

[sinful gyro]

Bit like that magic throwing weapon bandolier I guess?

[eager mountain]

How does the ball reform? Or stay in tact?

[sinful gyro]

No idea

Dustin uses the brutaris ball, which is a reusable grenade shell! The same action to draw it also throws it, ‘cause it is a grenade. The shell lets you install a grenade into it and effectively makes the grenade a daily use item instead of a consumable. The commercial frag grenade, which is the one Dustin is using in the ball, only has a radius of 5 feet.

[eager mountain]

Brutaris ball sounds cool tho

[sinful gyro]

Ah it becomes a daily use grenade

Instead of once

I wonder if you could get multiple of them

I'd love to rock up with like 6 daily grenades

[eager mountain]

Probably

[sinful gyro]

Foundry will be very good for tracking all these buffs and stuff

Also ooo envoy not only gives allies a higher chance to hit, but it also lowers enemy reflex saves

That's really nice

[limber comet]

Specifically the melee soldier, and a vaguely mentioned armor soldier

A ranged soldier in pf2e is basically using only a blunderbluss lol

[crystal walrus]

Gunslinger

[limber comet]

Well keep in mind, Soldier is focused on AoE attacks, and enhancing those attacks

[limber comet]

I'm really interested in seeing Biohacker and Vanguard in 2e

[solar storm]

I think it should be illegal to make a size large dwarf looking construct companion

[stuck bane]

God I’m looking forward to getting a large construct companion

Also looking forward to using it as a Mount

[solar storm]

(not like it shouldn't be possible but he's so mean looking)

[frank crystal]

For an unarmed build automaton yall think hunter or warrior is the better heritage?

Because hunter only benefits you if you don’t have a shield, and idk if the extra movement is worth not having

But Warrior only works if you aren’t in a stance, which I will be

[warped orbit]

if you're going for a stance or Clawdancer, Hunter I think

[frank crystal]

Yah I’ll probably prefer the extra movement then a shield

Especially if I don’t go monk with this build

[echo briar]

Does the word “can” in “can use intelligence” mean I can use charisma like normal for an innate spell? https://2e.aonprd.com/Backgrounds.aspx?ID=307

[surreal basin]

Yes, although the remaster might’ve changed it to let you key off any mental stat for innate regardless - I might be making it up tho

[echo briar]

Nope, still always cha unless specified otherwise

[worthy stump]

doesn't seem like it, at least according to AoN

ohp, chat didn't scroll down, oops

[rapid wagon]

Is there a cloak and Dagger fighting style in pathfinder 1 or 2e

Or cloak and sword?

[silver geyser]

https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Cloak and Dagger Style

https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Cloak and Dagger Subterfuge

https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Cloak and Dagger Tactics

[rapid wagon]

Ooo

I knew it existed

Not in 2e I take it?

[silver geyser]

Correct

It's kind of meh, but it exists

[rapid wagon]

It's good vibes, eh mechanics

Probably works fine casually in a homebrew campaign

But yeah a friend was interested in a cloak and sword dueling style in dnd and I vaguely remembered that pf1e had something to that effect

[silver geyser]

Indeed

There's also Aldori Dueling stuff that likes cloaks

[rapid wagon]

I always wanted to play a sword lord in training

[silver geyser]

Same

1e gave you some fun stuff that you could rock as a fighter

[echo briar]

To use lancer terms, what caster is the best defender?

[silver geyser]

Cleric

[trail nova]

Cloak and Dagger is a very good feat line for dirty trick, which is probably the strongest maneuver. Other than the prerequisites it’s excellent.

It's a lot of very good action economy, and dirty trick is both good debuffing and not target specific.

(And the prerequsites aren't too onerous, the BaB requirements are just high.

[rapid wagon]

Any thoughts on how one might introduce a cloak and sword (or create the) fighting style in 2e?

Even just for reflavoring

[warped orbit]

well there is the dueling cape, though it's mostly just kinda a niche sidegrade to a buckler

[limber comet]

It's mostly to keep your hand free

Also I watched the little tian xia panel today

Apparently Unfurling Brocade Hybrid Study just makes you into DON QUIXOTE DOFLAMINGO

It's all about threads

[warped orbit]

Bladed Scarf Magus, pog

Aloof Firmament apparently also one handed focuses
flying and mobility focused, and a bunch of other Xianxia sword tricks

[limber comet]

I'm really excited for the hungerseed heritage

[craggy thunder]

MY GM IS SAYING IF THERE ARE TAKERS SHE'LL RUN FIST OF THE RUBY PHOENIX

THIS IS NOT A DRILL, I REPEAT THIS IS NOT A DRILL

[eager mountain]

neat

[frank crystal]

Ok so I’m designing the major boss of act 1 of my game

The newly ascended anti god Lamorak

And for it I think how I’m gonna do it is make his AC rather low by the standards of their level but make his HP pool giant

Because every time I use a higher level enemy actually hitting them tends to be the biggest issue

So while I’m gonna keep his AC at around their level, the rest of his stats will be equal to the higher level stuff

And also I’m gonna steal from lancer

He’s gonna have 3 turns

What I’m gonna do is make his primary gimmick a cloud of spores coming from inside him that whenever the players start their turn in it they must make a fortitude save or be dazzled, then sickened, then drained

With the drains stacking with each failed save

Ah here’s the thing I wrote for his mechanics

[barren cipher]

the damage type mechanic sounds a bit like golems which everyone hated

adding extra turns i think is going to need a lot of tweaking

you'll have to tune the outgoing numbers downwards a lot

[frank crystal]

Yah

I’m thinking AC and Damage will be tuned down for how high level this guy will be

I want this to be a bit of a grind as it were

Make them actually interact with the spores mechanic

[barren cipher]

i mean it seems like they will be forced to anyway after they get grabbed

i think you have the potential to death spiral really bad here

i would run a play test or two first

[frank crystal]

I do have a week

[barren cipher]

even just dazzled absolutely sucks

[frank crystal]

And plenty of people to test it with

[frank crystal]

Also do you think there would be a better condition for the first stage of the spores?

[barren cipher]

oh god anything, anything at all

make it beneficial or something

[frank crystal]

Oh

[barren cipher]

status bonus to damage idk

[surreal basin]

?

Why would the bosses aura be beneficial

[barren cipher]

to make people stand in it and risk getting the shit drained out of them or something

[frank crystal]

I mean most of the party needs to be within 30 feet anyway

The only ones who don’t are the psychic and druid

And the druid prefers to be anyway for healing

[surreal basin]

What’s the uhhh

Level for this btw

[frank crystal]

They’re level 6

[surreal basin]

Personally I think the Aura sounds fine

[frank crystal]

Also I think for the drained effect what I could do is make it so it only happens if they’re sickened

[surreal basin]

The damage type thing is good imo - as long as he doesn’t have magic immunity to something it shouldn’t be a huge deal as long as it’s not laser targeted at the party

[frank crystal]

So if they choose to wretch they can avoid the drained with an action and another save

[frank crystal]

Oh yah I’m honestly not even sure if it’ll be an immunity

I might just make it a resistance

Also yah I do kinda think after dwelling on it the dazzled actually works against what I want for this guy

Which is for him to be easy to hit but extremely tanky

So I think I’m just going to go immediately into sickened then drained

With the ability to avoid the drained save if they remove the sickened

[solar storm]

That wasn't the part of golems people hated tbf - it was the near global magic immunity

The damage interaction was neat but if you were playing a debuff caster you basically didn't exist for that fight and that's grating

[warped orbit]

The magic immunity sucked yeah
Since it makes casters against a golem come down to "do you have the weakness? Y/n"

[frank crystal]

I will I hated running golems just because of how annoying it was to track their immunities

I just ignored it if I ever ran a golem encounter pre remaster

[carmine egret]

In the process of running Beginner Box as a prelude to AV and feeling tempted to run Beginner Box as a prelude to AV for a second, different group

[tough perch]

by that point you're probably better off budgeting this creature as three party level creatures

like, using party level statistics and stuff

also have you worked out how conditions are going to apply to this boss?

without adjustments some effects will have 3 times the effect they were supposed to, while some will only do a third

like something that affects a target for 1 round will last through 3 activations

stuff like the slow spell will be unexpectedly powerful, since it's like you're hitting 3 creatures at once

i think this is the biggest issue with multiple activations in pf2e

i toyed with this kind of thing a little trying out optional rules for solo play

[frank crystal]

Hmm yah I haven’t really thought of that yet

[eager mountain]

https://imgflip.com/i/8rse8u

[true delta]

Does the village of twins from The Dark Archive count?

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/crycat-crying-cat-crying-cat-thumbs-up-thumbs-up-ok-gif-22851318

*sad sorceress noises *

[limber comet]

Sorcerer was already pretty solid

[eager mountain]

yeah , but like .......why does wizard even get a fucking spiff up, but not sorcerer ?

I atleast wanted some cool new stuff to flavor it a bit more

mabye cooler bloodlines atleast

[limber comet]

Cuz wizard was reliant on OGL stuff

A lot

[eager mountain]

so im not always stuck with fey becuase nothing ever fits that well

[surreal basin]

Oh the Rage change is

Interesting

[limber comet]

I mean it's a bit weird but I don't think it's a bad change

[unborn rain]

Barbarian change is going to pretty different I think, if you can build around just constantly getting mad and unmad

[eager mountain]

like all ive heard about sorcerer is possible changes to dragon bloodline

and as someone who ants to play sorcerer, but doesnt have a character that uses dragon stuff, thats just ...not enough for me

[surreal basin]

Oh I don’t think it’s bad for sure

[eager mountain]

I didnt say it was bad, just not something ill probably use

[surreal basin]

The rage thing I mean

[eager mountain]

oh you meant the other thing

sorry

[surreal basin]

Idk, sorcerer is fine, I wish blood magic was better since it usually yarfs

But the massive amount of spell slots and the best caster feats in the game leave me happy

(Dangerous sorcery is absurd)

[eager mountain]

still wish they would like give us ( sorcerers ) cool make overs like the witch

Or like just a make over of bloodlines or something

hell just new bloodlines woul be cool

we barely ever get new bloodlines

[turbid dagger]

I think Sorceror is fine as-is
Probably my favorite caster
Doesn't have anything SUPER weird going on but I think its somewhat intended to be a simpler caster
Being the 'vanilla spont' caster
I'm playing a Phoenix Sorc right now and vibing hard

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/sick-feeling-gif-26252857

i just want more sorcerer stuff.

becuase I have a hard time picking stuff that fits my character

atleast new sorcerer stuff would be cool

[turbid dagger]

I certainly would not complain if we got new bloodlines
But I don't think it actually Needs a structural change as like, a balance thing

[limber comet]

I mean we did get one in Stolen Fate

[eager mountain]

stolen fates was months ago

name one since then

like harrow bloodline is cool , I just am not sure if i want to play an occult caster for my gnome.

thats why i end up usually with fey and even thats not much of a fit becuase i dont like mind controlling people

wow its really been like .....a whole year since we had a new bloodline

like about the only new things sorcerers get most of the time IS spells

nothing specific to sorcerers

[limber comet]

I mean a bunch of classes haven't gotten options that are specific to them since their release

[light gyro]

any standout options from monastic ancestral weaponry?

[turbid dagger]

Dogslicer Peafowl has always appealed to me

Of course that involves being a goblin monk so

[limber comet]

Sounds kinda fun

[light gyro]

two stride strike, flurry of blows, step, flip the bird with third action, all with agile MAP. tasty

[eager mountain]

like theyve said that wizard schools are gonna be easier to make now, I just hope that also means we get more bloodlines

[turbid dagger]

I'm sure you could make a fun character with that conceit! Its just not like
A beginner level character concept LMAO

[eager mountain]

becuase I want a bloodline I actualy find interesting for once

instead of just having to resort to fey

[limber comet]

I mean...there's a lot of ground that the core bloodlines cover outside of being setting specific. Your best bet to make something tailored to your character is to homebrew or wait until Team+ makes sorcerer plus /hj

[turbid dagger]

Or just reflavor an existing bloodline

[limber comet]

Cuz you're never going to be satisfied with the official stuff if you're looking for something specific to your already made character

It's why I like to start with an entirely new concept when building a ttrpg character

[turbid dagger]

Mhm

I looked at phoenix sorc, went 'what concepts can I do with this', and wound up with a character I really really love that fits their class perfectly

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/sigh-le-sad-cat-gif-16777715376630435814

[limber comet]

Hella rad, phoenix sorc is cool

I want more character options that are a result of the outcome of an AP

Even if it is setting specific it's just

Mmmm!!! Yummy!

[turbid dagger]

I admit mine got blessed by a wholly separate phoenix, but yeah!

[limber comet]

I mean I didn't assume it was Hao Jin but even then

The events of an ap can serve as a good foundation for a character's backstory

Especially the typically world altering 11-20 aps

"Yeah my mom/dad/parent participated in a fighting tournament and now I can throw fire"

[rustic cape]

but that was owlcat not paizo wasn't it

[sinful gyro]

Barb changes sound interesting

Sounds better than a sorta action tax

[light gyro]

monk getting fuse stance a little earlier is nice

[surreal basin]

So I’ve read the first two books of season of ghosts

This kinda seems like everything I wanted from SoT tbh

[solar storm]

I've read almost nothing about SoG but everything I've heard has been super positive

I'm gonna run/play it after AV I think

[surreal basin]

It’s so cool

Don’t read anything about it if you’re gonna play it though

It’s very easily spoiled

Just as a warning

[solar storm]

Very good to know thanks

[trail nova]

Fuck, I was thinking about PF1e, where SoG stands for Spheres of Guile which has had the opposite reaction.

[surreal basin]

Oh has spheres of guile been negatively received?

[trail nova]

Yeah, it's... extremely conservative on balance.

(In a bad "guy at the gym" way.)

[surreal basin]

very weakly yeah babyyy

[solar storm]

Sorry I've heard this a couple times now what's "guy at gym" refer to?

[trail nova]

Pretty much 90% of the good stuff is broken because it's "better way to buy magic"

[trail nova]

3.5 era thing about martials being constrained by what's realistic for a guy at the gym to do.

[surreal basin]

I was gonna say I really like so spheres of power

[light gyro]

want

[surreal basin]

Which is very NOT that

My uhh, praise for season of ghosts is

Genuinely some kinda scary stuff in there if you wanna lean into the horror!

And it really focuses on the town it’s centered around, like

[trail nova]

I love Spheres of Might and Power. Spheres of Guile is... mostly good as a free thing for some random tricks, and occasionally busted combat tools that slipped past editing.

[surreal basin]

Way more than SOT ever actually focused on the magaambya imo :3

[solar storm]

Ah ok that makes sense

[surreal basin]

Sorry I can never resist sniping at my rival

[solar storm]

No worries, I always figured SoT would run into problems with that Pathfinder isn't really a game about being a teacher

So splitting time between "being a magic school student or teacher" and "playing pathfinder" was always gonna be a point of tension

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[turbid dagger]

My SoT GM is considering cutting some stuff from Book 2 so we can play more pathfinder admittedly 😛
But I've been liking it

[surreal basin]

Imo my big complaint is it feels like it doesn’t even engage with the premise of a magic school

You’re… kinda just weird cops for a lot of it
Which… there ARE ways to write around!

[turbid dagger]

I admit
I actually quite enjoy being High Fantasy Mystery Inc
That's what it is in my head over 'weird cops'
You bust crime but like, in a goofy hijinks way
Or at least that's how our table has been doing it
I'd just like more fights where we are right now 😛

[unborn rain]

Almost all narratives about school have taught me that solving a murder or several is a part of it

Classic school hijinks is finding a criminal overlord

[solar storm]

That does sound pretty good

[frank crystal]

And sometimes beating them up

[frank crystal]

Hmm, next session is gonna involve a background battle that my players know about but won’t directly fight in

Do you guys have any ideas how to handle that?

[light gyro]

are they fighting something else at the same time? or are they doing something else?

[frank crystal]

Essentially the city they’re in is being attacked but they’re fighting a dude who’s using the chaos to enact a greater plan

So it’s gonna be at the same time as the battle is being fought around them

[barren cipher]

it doesn't sound like they're going to be greatly influential in it so it just sounds like set dressing to me

unless they get a bee in their bonnet about it and head to the walls instead of paying attention to their personal issues

[light gyro]

maybe steal some lair actions from 5e, with the effects being the chaos spilling over. errant fireballs, falling buildings, etc

[frank crystal]

Oh that’d be cool

[light gyro]

stat them up as a levelled hazards or something and factor that in to the encounter difficulty

[barren cipher]

yeah if they're getting siege weaponed/war magicked then hazards, environment and terrain are good

[frank crystal]

There are cannons and artillery involved yah

[solar storm]

Ok friend brought up a funny question

Now that you can play a size large ancestry

How long is a Size Large 10' Pole?

[frank crystal]

40’ pole

[surreal basin]

Long enough to reach 10 feet in front of you :3

[solar storm]

Yeah

Or close enough

Just started a play through of Outlaws of Alkenstar this week

We uh

We’re a weird party

[clever cobalt]

Such is the Impossible Lands

They're called that for a reason

[solar storm]

2 dwarves (Inventor with ogre-sized robo-dwarf, and Ancestors Oracle)
Goblin Champion with a giant rat mount
Conrasu Gunslinger
Awakened Animal (Cat) Alchemist

So far only the cat has killed anyone

[warped orbit]

Lmao

[eager mountain]

how are you enjoying it so far ?

where ya at in the adventure ?

rob the bank yet ?

[solar storm]

Yeah that’s all we’ve done

Short sessions

[warped orbit]

I hear there's a lot of clockwork enemies with lightning weakness early
if your Alchi prepares some bottled lightning that's probably gonna go great

[solar storm]

Ye, and we’ve got lightning ammo

[frank crystal]

Are there rules for becoming a revenant mid game?

I know there’s the background but you choose that at character creation

[young chasm]

not exactly per se

revenant's have their own individual experiences that cause them to be a revenant

unfortunately there isn't an archetype so at most what you have to work with is the background and the creature statblopck (which talks a little bit about how they work)

usually it just boils down to "person coming back as undead to exact vengeance on their killer or source of betrayal"

[frank crystal]

Yah, I do really enjoy the whole “you decided you don’t wanna die so hard you don’t” idea but it is kinda unfortunate you can’t really have that moment in game without some homebrew

I guess you could say you come back with negative healing though

[young chasm]

you gain negative healing from revenant background iirc

[frank crystal]

Yah

But like, if you don’t start as one you wouldn’t have it

[barren cipher]

if you wanted to keep going that badly i think you’d just tack on negative healing or zombie archetype or something

[turbid dagger]

To be fair, for a plot beat that big I could see someone just changing their background to Revenant afterwards

[frank crystal]

True true

[frank crystal]

I was more thinking of offering this to my players if they die In especially pivotal moments

At least if their character is stubborn enough

[barren cipher]

if they already have free archetype making them spend feats might be a bit rough

changing background can also cause build problems though

[young chasm]

fellas im gonna be honest. im not sure if im a big fan of the barbarian rage change

[frank crystal]

Yah probably

[frank crystal]

How so?

[young chasm]

it feels a bit... superfluous?

like i dont think barbarians at any point felt like they needed free action rage

[barren cipher]

have they shown much off?

or is it just that one snippet

[young chasm]

that one snippet afaik

[frank crystal]

They said rage is a free action and don’t have any limits on how often you can use it per fight

Oh yah just the snippet

[frank crystal]

Also yah

[barren cipher]

so it’s like a round by round thing

[frank crystal]

Barbarian was already very healthy

[young chasm]

like

im not gonna complain because its strictly a buff but i think it takes away from the interesting design paradigm barbarian had

[barren cipher]

i’d have to see what it turns out like in the context of their new kit

[frank crystal]

I think it’s more like for a weird barb build they can drop it to use concentration actions for a bit before reapplying it

[young chasm]

i thought mighty rage was the elegant solution to the people bitching about 1st turn barbarian

and even then i think its kind of a weak excuse

when people realize you dont have to rage turn 1 the gameplay of barbarian becomes a lot more interesting imo

[barren cipher]

basically the old design meant that if you went down you were even more useless than anyone else

so i don’t mind losing that

[young chasm]

i mean a barbarian is never useless lol

[frank crystal]

Yah I do think not limiting rage to once per fight is nice for when you’re dropped

But yah I’m not sure what I think of the free action rage yet

[barren cipher]

a martial with no damage adder or usable feats is kinda useless imo

[frank crystal]

It is kinda just an action tax but like, those aren’t really uncommon in this game

[young chasm]

absolutely not

i host for a barbarian that has 200+ hp and regularly waits to use his rage several turns into the fight

they are still a full martial

raging turn one might get you slighty closer to winning the fight with the extra damage but at the end of the day they don't need to be raging to use actions like knockdown

and that barbarian i host for is 200+ hp he is a bag of MEAT, if he goes down it means he did his job preventing his party from taking 200 damage

[barren cipher]

so like… strictly worse than a fighter then?

[young chasm]

does that mean useless to you?

[turbid dagger]

My basic thought is that Barbarian hardly has any stuff that it wants to use outside of rage by default
Like, it doesn't get knockdown, you have to archetype
I agree its not useless but it IS strictly unoptimal most of the time I believe

[barren cipher]

yeah? you are doing worse than anyone else similar if you get downed and can’t rage again

you lose like half of your unique class feats

[young chasm]

in what world is a full martial useless

[frank crystal]

At the very least I think a barbarian outside of rage is a far more boring class

Martials are fun because of their unique actions

[barren cipher]

a full martial who suddenly loses their damage bonus is usually in a rough spot

[young chasm]

frankly i just disagree

that 20~ extra damage you deal over three strikes isn't making or breaking the class

the only instance i think you are strictly playing uncorrectly by not raging is giant barbarian

but there are several other instincts

[warped orbit]

The majority of your features just don't work outside of Rage though

[young chasm]

that doesn't mean you are out of options

if you are worried about not having options outside of rage actions, take non-rage traited actions

like swipe

or cleave

or attack of opportunity

or disarming assault

or you can use athletic maneuvers

[warped orbit]

Okay but what does delaying the Rage actually get you?
Do you somehow have some critical Concentrate action?

[barren cipher]

cleave?

[young chasm]

oh sorry cleave is raged traited mb

[barren cipher]

i mean even if it wasn’t it’s horrible

[warped orbit]

Wish Cleave wasn't affected by MAP

[frank crystal]

Actually yah what benefits does not being in rage have besides higher AC?

[barren cipher]

one of the saddest feats in the game

[young chasm]

you don't suffer a penalty to your AC and can use concentration actions and outside of that it mos tly boils down to whether or not you'd rather use that action to do something else like activating an item, striding, etc

[warped orbit]

You have 1(2) more AC, and you can use Concentrate actions

[barren cipher]

i mean maybe you have some counter or something and if you keep raging turn after turn you explode

[young chasm]

which is why i stress the point i made earlier i think barbarian player agency becomes a lot more interesting when you don't immediately rage

i'm not dogging people who do, it's valid, but imo i don't think it's always the best strategy

[warped orbit]

I just haven't seen that many situations where one more action was critical first turn

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[warped orbit]

Anyway I don't think the free action Rage was necessary either

[young chasm]

you guys really should see the way my barbarian i host for plays, he doesn't actively rage turn 1 and is still an absolute force to be reckoned with

i genuinely believe not raging doesn't break the class

that being said if you just never rage, play a fighter instead

[warped orbit]

saying it's an action tax is technically true, but it's not like Barb is suffering that much
Monks still need their stances, Ranger and Thaum have way more taxed actions, etc

letting Barb Rage again if they drop it mid fight is good though

[frank crystal]

Yah, if anything I guess free action rage could open up some neat builds using concentration actions

[tough perch]

while that is true, generally you want your class main thing to be your main thing

[frank crystal]

Assuming it can be dropped easily anyway

[tough perch]

like sure there was some space for tactical decision on when to rage

[warped orbit]

well the free action is on Initiative

[tough perch]

but that wasn't a fun tactical decision

[warped orbit]

it's presumably still an action if you do it again later

[young chasm]

it does feel strictly punishing if you don't immediately use the free action

[tough perch]

different from like fighter, who gets a bunch of manouvers and their tactical decision is more about which cool thing they hava that they want to use

[young chasm]

ah we might just disagree with no notes on that front, then

[frank crystal]

Ah that kinda sucks then

[warped orbit]

I mean, it's the same as now

I really don't think it's a huge deal either way tbh

[young chasm]

either way

[frank crystal]

I will say at least I do like rage not being limited per fight anymore

[young chasm]

i still think mighty rage is what people actually want out of this change

[frank crystal]

Makes being dropped way less punishing

[warped orbit]

yes, that's the main thing I appreciate

wonder if this gives any kind of viability to Furious Finish

[frank crystal]

Also is archived of nethys slow for anyone else?

[warped orbit]

probably still no

yes

[frank crystal]

It’s taking so long to load anything

[young chasm]

yea

[frank crystal]

Ok good it’s not just me then

[young chasm]

you know what I think finally clicked for me

if rage is auto-initiative every fight and you get to re-use it then why even have rage as mechanic? why not just passively have those numbers in the barbarian stat block?

[silver geyser]

Effects that stop rage.

[young chasm]

is there anything that does that outside of being knocked unconscious

which just makes it an extra "pick up your weapon" now ..

[silver geyser]

It is an emotion effect, as well as a mental effect. In theory, you could counteract it with things that counteract those.

[young chasm]

at which point you are just forced to use it again i guess? idk

an enemy using a counteract on a rage feels pretty inefficient lol

[silver geyser]

Not really, considering how much of Barb is tied to it.

[young chasm]

if there is no cooldown to a rage now at best you eat up a precious resource to counteract and waste a barbarian's single action

[scenic patio]

How is the howl of the wild book is it good for DMs?

[silver geyser]

And turn off their raging resistance, any number of defensive feats they might have. You're the DM, that limited resource isn't actually.

[young chasm]

you do realize they can just

use their very next action to rage again

[silver geyser]

Yes, they can. But until they do, they don't have any of their benefits.

[young chasm]

in this instance where i am a barbarian and presumably fighting a spellcaster i do not know why i would care about my raging resistance unless i was already one specific instinct

[silver geyser]

Because while you are made of hitpoints, you are not made of AC.

And because several feats with the Rage Trait will turn off as soon as you're not raging.

"It's only one action to go back into a rage" ignores some things that you do as set up as well.

[young chasm]

yeah as was addressed earlier in this conversation but man if i can't take a spellcasters spell with my HP alone i must be doing something wrong

like. i would gladly eat up my own action AND a spellcasters reaction AND their spell slot if they counteracted my rage

i'll make that trade ANY day

[silver geyser]

You also seem to be presuming that the spellcaster is alone.

[young chasm]

are you telling me 4 or 5 different spell casters are going to use 5 spell slots and 5 reactions to counteract my rage

[silver geyser]

... no

If you turn off a barbarian's raging resistance, they're suddenly a lot more vulnerable to stabbing.

Spirit Instinct can loose their range defense help

[young chasm]

that's a glass half full way of looking at it, but again they can just continue to use their rage action on their very next action

and if your DM counteracts you 3 times in one turn he's got a vendetta against you lmfao

[silver geyser]

Animal Barbs can loose their animal transformation.

Like, you asked why have rage as a mechanic, and I have given you reasons.

[young chasm]

these reasons are the absolute extremes of the answer and i don't think would ever necessarily come up often enough to justify it

[silver geyser]

And, as it currently stands, unless you are level 17, counteracting a Barbarian Rage means that they're just locked out for a minute.

Like, being able to tell a Giant Instinct Barbarian "Oh, sorry, I don't want you to be Large right now, you can get that back with two actions on your next turn tho" is good control.

[young chasm]

again

with the newly talked about change to rage, they can just rage again

[silver geyser]

You are A). Messing up any off-turn plans they have and B). Dictating what they have to do next turn. If you don't see the value in that, I don't know what to tell you.

[young chasm]

in exchange for my allies not getting meteor showered and a caster being down a reaction

for something the barbarian can just do at will

these exchanges are not that equal

[silver geyser]

No, it's pretty good as a trade-off.

Doing damage to the party is not always the goal, especially as a caster.

I'd much rather deny damage being dealt.

[young chasm]

okay let me ask you this. are you a DM and have you ever actually counteracted a player's barbarian rage?

[silver geyser]

My guy, I am a perma GM.

Across a lot of systems.

And what gives any fight more juice period is denying players their optimal actions.

[young chasm]

i don't need the passive aggressiveness i don't know you so i am asking to make sure lol

[young chasm]

okay, but have you counteracted a barbarian's rage before

[silver geyser]

This is entirely armchair theorizing, but what I have done is stymie player turn to turn goals.

[young chasm]

i will take that as a no then

[silver geyser]

Again, if you do not see the value of messing with a player's goals for one turn, I don't know what to tell you.

The fact that it's messing with a non-limited resource is just icing on the cake.

[young chasm]

at the end of the day you are using a presumably high level spell slot and a reaction to counteract a single action that the player can just take on the very next action without any cost

i get that as a spellcaster apart of your job is to debuff the other side but this just seems like such a wildly inefficient use of precious resources

it's really not about messing with a player's turn and instead what does it cost to mess with that player and is it worth the cost

[silver geyser]

You are also giving a bad equation to resources as a GM.

Quite frankly, none of these guys are going to survive a fight with the party more often than not.

Thoughts like "What is the most optimal use of this NPC" are kinda secondary to "What will make this fight interesting"

And also, that's not where this question started.

[silver geyser]

This is where it started. I gave a reason, and you are caught up with the idea that this isn't a good reason.

And it may not even be a spell that does it! Could be a creature with a nice calming aura, like a Gerbie.

[young chasm]

i think would just rather have his AC be lowered and then succeed a check against that lowered AC and turn his bones to soup instead

unless he's a superstitious barbarian there's a good chance he's not resisting a heavy hitting spell like chain lightning

[silver geyser]

Bah, damage

So boring, so easy to take care of.

There's other things for that.

[young chasm]

it's just like they say, the best crowd control is death

[silver geyser]

Let the guy with the sword get in there and kill things.

[high helm]

hey guys, quick vibe check here - everyone having fun?

[silver geyser]

Not really, thanks for the check. You're right.

[high helm]

can't tell if you guys are trying to kill each other or you're just very excitedly discussing something

okay, cool, got a curator ping in here

[young chasm]

very passionate debate i'm not upset or anything

[high helm]

rule of thumb getting into big furious debates is proobably not good for at least someone's mental health in the situation

well we found the person not having fun then

it's always okay to just ask for stuff to stop

[silver geyser]

Never do like my niche little corner things being shut down with "But why aren't you just dealing damage as the GM?"

[young chasm]

that was just an alternative on how to use the precious resource you're counteracting with instead but alright

anyways im clocking out of this for now

[high helm]

you guys are still snapping at each other

yeah that sounds good

[young chasm]

is it really coming off that way lol

[high helm]

yes

"that was X actually but alright" is a snap

[young chasm]

uh

okay

[high helm]

ryan, mourge clearly signalled they were not having a good time and I got pinged in here because it seemed like people were not having a good time

I can scroll up and read messages that sound super dickish from you

[young chasm]

you could scroll up and read dickish messages from them too

[high helm]

yes for sure

but this situation has ended with one person going "actually this sucked" and the other person going "nah we were just having a passionate debate" so clearly the impact was different

if you're surprised as to how all this has read and been processed by people then this is feedback

[young chasm]

my personal interpretation was that it was just a debate but if they were not having fun then i couldn't tell

as feelings are hard to infer through text

[high helm]

right, so, consider this me closing the feedback loop

this situation spiralled and actually you both were kinda just swinging at each other

let's try and avoid this in the future

[young chasm]

respectfully i disagree but i'll be more conscious about it in the future

i shall now dip out

[silver geyser]

Working on it right now.

[high helm]

yeah you're doing fine mourge

[high helm]

respectfully, this is my server. so... end of the day this is how things are gonna go on pilot net. feel free to have different standards elsewhere

[young chasm]

correct! my disagreement is not with how you are adjudicating this

you are doing your job and i am not mad about it

[high helm]

cool cool

[light gyro]

Strength of Thousands book 4 spoilers. ||Party is about one or two sessions away from fighting God ||

[rustic cape]

Okay I know this is like over 24 actual hours late but I gave a really good answer to this just the other day —

Guy At The Gym Fallacy: the fallacy comes in a strong form (“I think martials should be confined to doing what I sort of vaguely imagine people can do because realism”) and a weak form (“I think martials should be confined to doing things that a physical body could do in the real world, because realism”). However, both are discrete from, “I am creating an experience specifically informed by a grounding in reality”, which is not a fallacy of any sort. Some discourse has called this “realism vs. verisimilitude”.

And my mobile was waaaaay backscrolled so that’s my excuse —

[solar storm]

Haha

Thanks for the description

[light gyro]

good lord

[solar storm]

What happened?

Chain lightning crit fails?

[light gyro]

eclipse burst on troops

kind of a god roll

[solar storm]

Ahh

[craggy thunder]

So

My GM has given me the go ahead to ask around if people wanna play Fist of the Ruby Phoenix! The game would be on Fridays, 6:30-ish PM PST

[light gyro]

chroma ray just fucking punted one of my monsters out of the universe

"send them to faerun"
"send them to LANCER"

[clever cobalt]

How big of a kick are we talking?

[light gyro]

they crit failed against the violet ray which apparently hits them with an instant interplanar teleport

[novel merlin]

Exact same time as my current campaign RIP

[clever cobalt]

Aaaaaa I'd join but I already have a game at that time

[craggy thunder]

B i g P a i n

[novel merlin]

Funny enough it's actually exactly when I'm already running fists of the ruby phoenix

[plucky snow]

I could do this, though I have some potential conflicts coming up in June

I have no idea what fist of the ruby phoenix is, though

[worthy stump]

11-20 Tournament Arc AP set in Tian Xia

[plucky snow]

ooh

[light gyro]

also whipped up a quick and dirty stat block for this poor guy

// Displaced Sun-Spire //
SCOURER RPV EXOTIC, Tier 1 Mech
[ STATS ]
  H: 1 | A: 0 | S: 0 | E: 1
  STRUCT: 1/1 | ARMOR: 2 | HP: 15/15
  STRESS: 1/1 | HEATCAP: 0/8 | SPD: 4
  SAVE: 10 | EVADE: 8 | EDEF: 8
  SENS: 10 | SIZE: 1 | ACT: 1
[ FEATURES ]
  THERMAL LANCE (I), FOCUS DOWN (I),
  COOLING MODULE (I), ABLATIVE SHIELDING (I),
  MELT (I), BONUS HP (I),
  NO PILOT (I), VULNERABLE TO TECH (I),
  XENOTECH (I), HARDENED TARGET (I),
  EXOTIC SYSTEMS (I), PARACAUSAL WEAPON (I)

[silver geyser]

I would absolutely love to!

[craggy thunder]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[young chasm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1070835246683131945/1245536250597867600/image.png?ex=66591b87&is=6657ca07&hm=f2fe428f420df105bfaa4447787b934800a89757d6e528d9ccd3d32cdbb79706&

good bye

[turbid dagger]

Our abomvaults group has taken to calling mitflits 'wet cats' because how pathetic they are

[young chasm]

LOL

[warped orbit]

that mitflit got atomized

[limber comet]

What do you think would happen if you called a mitflit cute

[surreal basin]

They’d blush and join the magaambya

[echo briar]

Why can clerics of Treerazer chose the heal fount?

If anyone was harm only, I would think it would be him

[light gyro]

he twists nature, and that twisted nature flourishes.

[warped orbit]

yeah he has a whole thing about corrupted growth and stuff

[light gyro]

honestly good on him for offering a vegan option, most demon lords wouldn't bother.

[thorny berry]

I do still find it funny that one of the strongest statted entities goes by 'treerazer'

razing a tree isn't that hard. it's quite simple in fact

[solar tendon]

tbf he's statted because he's a relative chump

[light gyro]

One of the few other entities statted to the same level also happens to be. A big tree.

[turbid dagger]

And honestly does he even raze trees?
My understanding was like
He made them into evil trees

I do find it very funny that he transforms people into plants so his plant axe works better

It feels like cheating

[light gyro]

He also has horrid wilting!

[frank crystal]

Give me a gas canister and a match and I’ll do it right now

[clever cobalt]

Give me a nuke and I'll solve all of Golarion's problems

[sinful gyro]

IIRC Treerazer is from the designers home campaign originally

Hence the name being kinda bad 😛

[surreal basin]

Oh that actually makes sense in a very affectionate way

[frank crystal]

Alkenstar:

[solar storm]

Ash Engineer be like

[limber comet]

I can't wait for Spore War ngl

[turbid dagger]

Me too
I wonder how they'll handle it
Like, Treerazer is gonna get fought at the end but
He's level 25
Which is loosely in the 'can't reasonably win' category for level 20 peeps
Will there be like a uhhhhhhhhh
Thingy to make him weak to make it 'can reasonably win'

[surreal basin]

Probably mythic

But also maybe a thing to weaken him yeah

[limber comet]

It would be cool if the "thingy to make him weak" was just a bigass elvish army

[sinful gyro]

I bet mythic level stuff

[limber comet]

Maybe

They said it wasn't in the current outline but that they might include it

[warped orbit]

If you are prepared, you can also fight Treerazer at 20

It's still hard, but you can at least even the odds a bit

[barren cipher]

yeah he ain't all that if you know a bunch of stuff about him

first, let's all die and come back as undead...

[surreal basin]

Bunch of ghosts with cold iron holy shocking weapons

[eager mountain]

I don’t think you would

[eager mountain]

Well Desna also game out of a home game

[frank crystal]

does this read well?

[surreal basin]

Very rules head nitpick but it should just say sickened. Don’t add the 1 as that means if you’re sickened 2 you don’t roll on the bottom table

Also the success condition of table 2 does do anything

[frank crystal]

Unfortunately thats just kinda how foundry writes things

[frank crystal]

what?

[surreal basin]

If you’re already sickened

It can’t make you sickened 1

[frank crystal]

ah, yah this is meant to increase the sickened value

[surreal basin]

Ah, okay. Then yeah I’d include that because unless noted conditions don’t stack like that

[frank crystal]

oh they dont?

huh

[surreal basin]

Nope!

[frank crystal]

well yah Ill specify that then

because otherwise, this boss's whole gimmick doesnt work

[surreal basin]

lol yeah

[frank crystal]

the stacking drained is the primary feature

[frank crystal]

Is there any way to word a free action to be once per turn?

Because I wanna give this guy a once per turn free action to do like

3 damage to immobilized creatures

[barren cipher]

frequency

[silver geyser]

As a Free Action 1/turn

[frank crystal]

Ah thanks

[frank crystal]

how much rupture do you think is good for a levbel 6 boss fight? (the pcs are level 6 anyway)

[surreal basin]

Idk like 20 probably

[frank crystal]

alright

[surreal basin]

Generally someone rolling pretty good with a cantrip or on scale weapon should be able to do it

[echo briar]

I know Paizo doesn’t like to make classes to fill a hole, but I really wish they would make a second dedicated primal caster

Because it’s currently just Druid and pick a list, and witch doesn’t have many good options (unless the HotW patrons are good)

[worthy stump]

Animist is going to be primal, isn't it?

[echo briar]

Divine

[worthy stump]

ah

[echo briar]

It feels kinda weird that primal has the least casters, when the last 2 big books were both primal themed

[worthy stump]

really does, yeah

the primal sorcerer bloodlines are fairly good, at least

[solar storm]

I think the HotW patrons are pretty good

Animist also gets easy access to shit off like 3 spell lists so they’re not really that Divine locked

[young chasm]

animist satisfied my complaint about of the lack of wisdom casters

but yeah i'd like another prepared primal caster

though i wonder what that would look like

elementalist and kineticist are already a thing

[echo briar]

Shifter being a wave caster is the easy answer

[trail nova]

I personally hold that traditions are bad and stifling, particuarly for SF 2e being forced into PF 2e traditions, but this might also be another bit of that

[echo briar]

Traditions are the worst system except for all the other ones we’ve tried

[silver geyser]

So the biggest thing about Primal casters is that you have to find a way to differentiate them from Druid.

[trail nova]

I mean... not doing vancian, but...

[silver geyser]

And unfortunately, Druid kinda covers a lot of space.

[echo briar]

It’s not perfect, but it’s better than class based lists or just having one huge list

I think we’re late enough in the design space that we could get a first world based caster

[turbid dagger]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=3219

Who was gonna tell me trolls are so crazy now

What in the world is this

Yum yummy three strikes and a stride every round

[carmine egret]

https://gyazo.com/61a213c870b3460a07599fdbf401fa50 I appreciate the folklore touch

Switching up the vulnerabilities was a cheeky move too.

[echo briar]

I dislike how the troll war leader is so much higher level than normal trolls, that it makes it hard to actually use one as the leader in a combat

At level 9, a moderate encounter for 4 players is one war leader, and 2 normal trolls. That is the only level you can make a moderate encounter with both of them

[unborn rain]

I mean if you're fighting a warleader shouldnt that be a like severe boss fight?

And there's a lot of space between those two categories

[warped orbit]

yeah I assume the warleader block is meant as a boss fight for a troll focused arc or something

[frank crystal]

For the trolls go to war arc

[unborn rain]

or the trolls are raiding your village arc

[frank crystal]

Also with trolls they do have the benefit of because of their regeneration they do inherently need some extra attention

It doesn’t matter if you’re level 1 or level 20

Unless you have a way to disable their regeneration a troll will just get back up

[echo briar]

I mean, a torch works

[frank crystal]

Kinda makes trolls more of a threat then their equivalent leveled enemies

[trail nova]

That’s horrifying action economy

[frank crystal]

You think parties remember to buy those?

[solar tendon]

feels like it needs an in between of like

trolls that have been equipped and trained by a war leader

[unborn rain]

I mean, that's true of most NPCs

I think it is expected that you'll make your own or edit NPCs to create new ones if you're running the game

[frank crystal]

Also yah fair enough

[solar tendon]

yeah true

[unborn rain]

Trolls have so much health

Just now properly looking at their statline, they have higher than high health and regen

[frank crystal]

Oh yah huh

I never quite realized how tanky they are

[unborn rain]

Actually their health is normal as they have a common weakness

Which also kills their regen

[frank crystal]

Yah that does help

[worthy stump]

you can also make the warleader weak and the trolls elite to bring them closer, that makes it easier to build an encounter with both

[surreal basin]

Honestly I’d just make the war leader a solo severe encounter personally

Can also get away with throwing in some two headed trolls and cavern trolls that are edited to align with the new fellas to fill out the ranks with some elites

I think he’d make a very solid level 8 boss

[echo briar]

People who play bards, how often do you actually get to use dirge of doom?

I’m playing an 18th level maestro muse, and it feels like every combat we either start too far away to use it, or the enemies are mindless

[solar storm]

I only played one in a one shot but I had pretty much 100% uptime

[warped orbit]

a 30 foot emanation is too small for you that often?

[echo briar]

When the fight starts? Yes

And lingering composition means that waiting is worse action economy

[turbid dagger]

It seems to me that its basically just better courageous anthem (if one that doesn't plug into nearly as much extra stuff- still a lil mad that warrior muse cant extend it)

If enemies walk into it they get frightened so you just set it up anyway even if theres no baddies there

[echo briar]

Doesn’t help if you’re allies run in instead

[solar storm]

If you're consistently backlining in large battlefields I think you can pat yourself on the back for on a job well done and skip the shorter ranged auras safely haha

[turbid dagger]

Delay to after them

[echo briar]

And with groups, at least one of them is likely out of range at all times

[turbid dagger]

Or if your really brave run in first so all your pals get the frightened on their turn

[light gyro]

Delay is underrated

[echo briar]

Oh no, my other spells make things much easier lol

[turbid dagger]

I dunno
I don't think I've seen a fight yet where a 30 foot emanation cannot get every single thing in an encounter

[solar storm]

☝️ Abomination Vaults enjoyer

[warped orbit]

haha

[solar storm]

(I can say this I'm running AV rn)

[echo briar]

Maybe stolen fates just uses a lot of big maps

[warped orbit]

AV is uniquely cramped, but even otherwise I feel like 30 is often a good amount

[turbid dagger]

Playing in Abomvaults, Kingmaker, and SOT
Well, running abomvaults

[solar storm]

Ah fair I can't speak for the others

I just knew we were both doing something with AV and its cramped

[warped orbit]

AV is very claustrophobic at times yeah

[light gyro]

A lot of adventures are pretty cramped owing to the tyranny of the standard A4 page

[echo briar]

Although high level bard is fun. Synesthesia, wall of force, and quandary just wreck encounters

[warped orbit]

Synesthesia is so good

[echo briar]

Last boss fight, the BBEG was quandaried twice and then crit failed a synesthesia (for the second time this campaign lol) while a confused lackey dealt over 100 damage to his own ally

[light gyro]

Quandary isn't incap? Woof

[warped orbit]

damn, that's pretty good

minum waste an action if they crit succeed somehow, probably a turn and an action

[worthy stump]

In regards to the dirge of doom question, maestro bard does have a spellshape feat to let a composition emanate from an ally within 60 ft, that could help with range issues

[light gyro]

Oh, forgot to mention. Played my first session as a player! Society game, kitsune monk. Tons of difficult terrain so got surprising amounts of value out of dragon stance. Bunch of skeletons though so no value out of dark fields kitsune.

[echo briar]

Quandary also shuts down reactions (unless they can somehow work extraplaner)

[worthy stump]

Nice! Hope ya had fun, dragon style monk is cool

[true delta]

Maybe, I only like Pathfinder trolls so much because they look like those swine-things from The Wind Waker.

[limber comet]

Moblins?

[worthy stump]

i never realized it before, but now that you say it, i can see that

[craggy thunder]

Anyone wanna join a Fist of the Ruby Phoenix game on Roll20 starting at 6:30 pst tonight?

[limber comet]

I'd join but I've never actually

played pf2e

[barren cipher]

it’s not hard

[frank crystal]

Its just to late for me unfortunately

itd be hosted after midnight

[solar storm]

I am tempted but I don’t think I can afford to join another game

[limber comet]

I didn't think so but I don't wanna be the new guy asking questions every turn

[frank crystal]

Also fist of the Ruby Phoenix is the fighting tournament right?

[limber comet]

Yes

[steel blade]

It's also a higher level thing iirc

[turbid dagger]

Alas I can only do text games but I am literally gnawing on the bars of my cage (and wishing you a good time)
(And now that I think about it my weekly game is about that time)

[craggy thunder]

[barren cipher]

i’ll check with the wife

what’s the expected session length?

@craggy thunder

[craggy thunder]

Uuuuhhhh

twooooo to threeee hours?

[craggy thunder]

Forgot to reply

[barren cipher]

sure, count me in - how about i dm you

[craggy thunder]

No prob

[craggy thunder]

Our party so far is a tengu investigator, a minotaur kineticist, and a dwarf magus

[barren cipher]

we have six skill increases and twelve skill feats in crafting

between three players

[craggy thunder]

WOOOOOOOOOO

[light gyro]

Random thought about book 5 of strength of thousands; ||I play online without cameras, but what if I set up a little stage in real life and played out the two demilich guards as sock-puppets....||

[sinful gyro]

Yes

[turbid dagger]

If an enemy is totally behind an object which obscures line of sight, are they hidden? Or do they need to Hide?
Like
Imagine they close a door in the players' face
Obviously they'd be unhidden as soon as the door opens either way but

Asking for this

[warped orbit]

If they are completely unseen, probably Hidden I think yeah?

[barren cipher]

you'd be hidden yeah, i don't think the ability is meant to account for opening doors and stuff though

[solar tendon]

hidden definitely

assuming sight as the only precise sense of course

[turbid dagger]

The actual context of the game is that they're in a camp and the Chokers are darting behind tents as they get closer
So if they dont push forward to get eyes on them they'll be able to get flat-footed next round

But I think nothing changes there- thanks, folks!

[light gyro]

Picked up the GM Core today after inspecting it for like ten minutes to make sure it was the remaster. (I forgot 'core' books are remasters) They probably should've made it more obvious, idunno

[limber comet]

I looked at the comments under the Spore War reveal tweet

Damn, that's crazy bro

[sinful gyro]

What's antagonising ya huh?

[rapid wagon]

is it an abuse of my abilities as a metal kineticist in pathfinder 2, to make a rusty, shitty mic and drop it when someone else drops a cold line
out of thin air

[warped orbit]

no that's great

[worthy stump]

As long as it’s the world’s scrunkliest mic, you’re good

[crystal walrus]

Working As Planned

[echo briar]

What cantrip do you think would be the least practical for day to day use?

[solar storm]

In Golarion or if I could do it?

[echo briar]

Take root seems like a good contender, as while combat cantrips have the baseline use of self defense, being in combat and needing to not be shoved seems niche

[echo briar]

either

[solar storm]

In Golarion; Reinforce Eidolon (because you don’t have one) [cheap answer]
For me: detect magic

[echo briar]

Fine, non focus cantrip

[solar storm]

Take root is a good one

[echo briar]

Elemental counter is useless if you don't have spell slots, but not bad if you do

[frank crystal]

Probably gouging claw tbh

The damage cantrips are already pretty impractical in the day to day (like how often do you need to defend yourself really)?

But gouging claw has an extra layer from the fact you just make the claws

[echo briar]

Protect companion feels unnecessary for most companions

[frank crystal]

You don’t necessarily know how to fight with them

[echo briar]

I mean, you still make the same attack roll as any other cantrip

[worthy stump]

gouging claw to cut up ingredients in the kitchen

[frank crystal]

I feel like it’d just be easier to use a knife

[echo briar]

but mechanically, it isn't

at least if you have good cha

[frank crystal]

Oh I meant for the kitchen use

[echo briar]

vitality lash seems way worse, only working on undead

[frank crystal]

Also for defending yourself I feel like most people who wish you harm would be far more intimidated by like a lightning bolt coming from your hands

[echo briar]

I'm not saying its useful, just that others are worse

[frank crystal]

Fair enough

[echo briar]

they are much more intimidated by the claw than an attack that can not hurt them unless they are undead, or it being slightly harder to shove you

Or it being slightly harder to hit your cow for 6 seconds

In universe, warp step seems very useful for long distance travel, but it being 2 actions means it can't be an exploration activity

[eager mountain]

hmmmm

good ridence

[limber comet]

That post is older

Looks like Paizo is still rent free in their head lol

[whole river]

Looks like another case of the brain worms

[eager mountain]

time to follow up on the meme

[limber comet]

Brain worms would mean they had anything in their skull to begin with

[whole river]

Nothing worth keeping, anyway

[limber comet]

I bet if you opened it, there'd be cobwebs

[echo briar]

They should do a pride themed AP

[limber comet]

Hell yeah

Also like

This dude must be ignorant

Two of the most iconic...iconics are lesbian

[whole river]

The cleric and rogue, right?

[whole river]

Yesss

[limber comet]

Yessss

Also the thaumaturge is nonbinary

[echo briar]

I'm still waiting on the ace iconic

[limber comet]

I mean tbf quite a few of the iconics could very well be ace

[echo briar]

That is true of most fictional characters

But there is something important about explicit representation

They should reveal that the bard's asexual. That would be a fun twist

[limber comet]

Lem being ace...would track, honestly

[whole river]

He just likes being pretty

[limber comet]

I could see it

We really need a trans iconic

It's surprising that we don't have one yet

[craggy thunder]

I'd think Valeros could be an asexual person, mostly to defy the stereotype of 'fighter who spends his money on gear, broads, and beer'

[clever cobalt]

I think Valeros is straight but just has terrible luck

[limber comet]

Oh

I wanted Valeros to be gay

Darn

[craggy thunder]

big oof

[whole river]

I could've sworn there was at least one trans iconic

Though that might just be my brain filling in gaps in my memory

[clever cobalt]

same

[echo briar]

are any of the starfinder Iconics LGBTQ?

[limber comet]

Uhhh

Not that I remember

Nvm!

The evolutionist is nonbinary!

Only referred to with they/them pronouns!

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/cow-sus-dwayne-the-cow-johnson-cow-cow-eyebrow-cow-suspicious-gif-27165701

people forgot about Shardra since her class no longer exists, she exists as a archetype/subclass

[limber comet]

Oh true

[limber comet]

I meant for 2e

[whole river]

Fuck, that's right, it was the Shaman

[eager mountain]

she still exists in artwork ,but her class is no longer a class

[limber comet]

I meant for a full class, I did forget she existed tbh

Not any fault of her own

Just that I have small brain

[barren cipher]

given the state of gender care in golarion any of the iconics could be trans and you’d never know

[limber comet]

TRUE

THATS VERY TRUE

But some people don't go through surgery

[barren cipher]

it’s what, 45g

[limber comet]

A person could still be trans and not fully transition

Weh I'm not trans

I can't fully speak on this

My experience comes from all my close friends

I just thought it would be cool

[frank crystal]

Valeros however does still only spend money on gear and beer

[limber comet]

He is a Caydenite after all

[frank crystal]

Of course

[craggy thunder]

It would be cool to have an explicitly trans 2e iconic, agreed

though

mmm

idk I'm not nonbinary myself but view my fellow queer people who are nonbinary as trans unless they ask me not to

So to me, Mios fits?

[frank crystal]

They’re the kineticist iconic right?

[craggy thunder]

Thaum

[frank crystal]

Ah

[clever cobalt]

Mios is canonically NB iirc

[craggy thunder]

Yes

[craggy thunder]

hence

xD