Pun, that was not a typo š
#Pathfinder
turbid dagger
novel merlin
You can't use dual wielding feats with unarmed attacks anyways, so you can do claw + buckler (one in each hand)
frank crystal
Centaurs
Have two extra feets
Oh my fucking god I thought you meant they actually start with an additional feat because of a pun paizo made
clever cobalt
plucky snow
I'm not referring to dual wielding feats, I am referring to just attacking
frank crystal
I did not read the centaur page before this
novel merlin
I'm not referring to dual wielding feats, I am referring to just attacking
Ah, you cant attack with a hand that's holding a buckler.
worthy stump
uhh, basically anything that's not a weapon works. so a wand, scroll, potion, etc. or just interacting with something in the environment, like a lever
eager mountain
trim basin
GOBLIN ā¤ļø
barren cipher
What can you do with a hand that's holding a buckler?
anything you want, except you can't raise a shield with that buckler if you're holding anything other than a light bulk non weapon object
turbid dagger
OMG
Do we know if it has a devil eidolon?????????????????????????????????????????????????
limber comet
Do we know if it has a devil eidolon????????????????????????????????????????????...
It does
I can confirm
I checked out the toc and it does
turbid dagger
Amazing!!! A++++!!!
turbid dagger
I'm hooting and hollering
Hell Yeah
Gotta run this by my SOT GM
I'm playing a summoner with a plant eidolon fluffed as a cornugon
limber comet
Again, I think Pathfinder Plus content is peak pf2e homebrew
Also what is Cornugon again
I feel like I should recognize that name but I'm still very mildly buzzed so it's very fuzzy
turbid dagger
This charming gentleman
Basically one of the highest ranked 'combat' devils
As opposed to the talky charmy kinds
trail nova
Oh, so thatās what Cornugon Smash gets its name from (1e feat, free demoralize attempts when using power attack.)
turbid dagger
Yup!
clever cobalt
How many people have gotten Howl of the Wild so far?
I still really wanna see it >_>
frank crystal
Iāve gotten it from a friend
clever cobalt
Nice
How is it?
I would ask if I can look at it but that may be asking too much :v
frank crystal
Itās pretty cool
frank crystal
I would ask if I can look at it but that may be asking too much :v
Also yah sure Iāll dm you the pdf
thorny berry
I'm mostly curious about the specifics of the lycanthrope archetype I think
since there was a bit of ink spilled about it being pretty huge and customizable
frank crystal
It is yah
echo briar
How is the werebat? Is it just echolocation and minor flight or can you get like blood sucking or sonic attacks?
frank crystal
Yah itās just flight and echolocation+all the fang related feats
limber comet
Where is...
Ah
@turbid dagger I got my hands on Summoners +
The alt eidolon stuff isn't super in depth, it's usually just a replacement for the 7th level feature (and in some cases, the spell list)
turbid dagger
Oooooo, can I get a screenshot of Devil? Whats it riffing off of?
limber comet
Ya, hold on
Idk if that's super great mechanically but flavor wise it's neat
I think my favorite alt is Linnorm for dragons, considering it changes your spell list from Arcane to Primal
turbid dagger
Yeah thats....... thats not good š
wait
PRIMAL DRAGON????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Okay I gotta buy me this shit
limber comet
You also get a sorta death curse if you go Linnorm
turbid dagger
do you lose frenzy
frank crystal
Wait whatās summoners +?
warped orbit
homebrew supplement focused on Summoners
frank crystal
Is it just new eidolons?
turbid dagger
Is it just new eidolons?
Nope! Its a lot of new eidolons but there are also eidolon subtypes, different manifestations, and a class archetype that makes it pure martial, with you double teaming dudes with your eidolon
Synthesist is one of the alternate manifestations
frank crystal
Oh thatās sick
frank crystal
Synthesist is one of the alternate manifestations
Is that focused on meld into eidolon?
turbid dagger
Yeah, Synthesist was the 1e Eidolon subclass that Meld Into Eidolon was based off of
All about fusing with your eidolon instead of bossing it around
frank crystal
I do really wish that was a viable playstyle in 2e
But if this has more for that
Iāll check it out
warped orbit
Nope! Its a lot of new eidolons but there are also eidolon subtypes, different m...
oh that class archetype sounds neat
finally Tandem Strike has a use
turbid dagger
Indeed š
clever cobalt
Anyone got the picture of the Corrupted God from the War of Immortals stream
The one orc god that got corrupted by Rovugug
limber comet
Also the Archon alt for Angel isn't great but you get a feature called Be Not Afraid! so, immediately 11/10
clever cobalt
Nvm found it
echo briar
My worry about the martial summoner archetype is that because you and the eidolon share map, just replacing spell casting with martial proficiency is a huge nerf
warped orbit
depends on what they get in return I suppose
overall it is probably a bit worse though yes
though stuff like Tandem Strike does help
you can Tandem Movement into a flank, into Tandem Strike for two full bonus attacks
echo briar
I mean, if they get something to make up for it it should be fine
Like, just not sharing map is probably enough
eager mountain
limber comet
Like, just not sharing map is probably enough
Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, they share MAP
tough perch
i think not sharing map would flip over to being a little op
what i'd hope for to make a pure martial summoner be worth it is more tandem actions
with like, manouvers and shit
turbid dagger
Its an Archetype so there's space for it
Some kind of Tandem Charge would be cool as hell
Stride into flanking with your dive buddy then do a big combo attack
frank crystal
Whatās the spell where you make a portal that you can teleport back to later?
limber comet
Uh
The discussion was about Summoners+
There's a new archetype in it that turns you into a full martial
surreal basin
P sure itās howl
limber comet
That might be homebrew lol
limber comet
Also I don't remember barbarians naturally getting animal companions
eager mountain
yeah it seems to be a modified version of a feat from howl of the wild
limber comet
Nah
young chasm
is there martial summoner support in it?
limber comet
There's a whole archetype for it
You lose spellcasting to get more martial abilities
azure spear
Oh I would ask Qās in the discord for that published. I might post some PF1 (3pp) memebuilds here tho.
frozen hatch
I've had this all of 2 minutes and I love it already
light gyro
I've had this all of 2 minutes and I love it already
Pickle Pee, Pump-a-Rum
warped orbit
that Surkis archetype with the magic slug looks really good
I have a feeling that'll become really popular, especially for casters
limber comet
Well it's uncommon so like, gm access
Also idc about mechanics I just think Surkis are so good when it comes to building a character storywise
solar storm
I like their narrative and mechanics
limber comet
The idea of feeding on magic as you grow up is such a good narrative hook
clever cobalt
Are they a new race to Pathfinder or were they in 1e
warped orbit
they are new I believe
solar storm
New aiui
limber comet
They are 100% new
echo briar
How do surkis (and awakened animals) work with versatile heritages?
From what Iāve read, they are both very heritage based
solar storm
Awakened Animal at least has a feat which lets you go back and get your normal heritage if you took a versatile one, I'm not sure about Surkis though
echo briar
But whatās the default speed on the awakened animal if they take a versatile heritage? Iāve been under the impression that that was heritage based
solar storm
You get a 20 normal speed (or 20 swim speed if aquatic) if you take a versatile heritage
You still choose a "heritage" but gain no other benefits
limber comet
Surkis get a 5th level feat to take a heritage if you didn't get one or just want another one
solar storm
Ok cool, so very similar to AA
limber comet
If I'm remembering correctly
eager mountain
Are they a new race to Pathfinder or were they in 1e
the lore behind them is that they go on like century long digs
and theyve just come out of the dig.
so thier here in the first time in a long time
echo briar
Sadly, as the pathfinder timeline and the IRL timeline are linked, once they start digging again we wonāt see them until 2124
clever cobalt
Oh yeah, they came from the area of the Sakoris Scar (but underground)
Wonder how people reacted to them appearing
echo briar
That is probably only the 5th weirdest thing that happened there this year
limber comet
Considering Surkis are generally pretty chill, probably favorably
silver geyser
Considering it also used to be Deskari's attempted invasion ground... Probably have some people who are not thrilled.
eager mountain
what are you doing in my ancestry1?
heavy fulcrum
who do you think is awakening all those animals
clever cobalt
Aliens
limber comet
Druids
clever cobalt
Furries
frank crystal
me
sudden lark
Dragons!
turbid dagger
who do you think is awakening all those animals
Having been sneaked Howl, it seems like the answer is a fairly boring but expected 'awakened animals have always been a thing that can arise from various sources, they just haven't been detailed in the setting till now'
echo briar
who do you think is awakening all those animals
Depends. for diurnal and nocturnal animals, generally the sun awakens them, along with their circadian rhythms, although for diurnal animals the sun rising awakens them, while for nocturnal animals its the sun setting that awakens them
heavy fulcrum
oh i meant it as a joke about the art of erastil being in that section
turbid dagger
Oh! I'm dumb!
dark fjord
weird take: what if guardian traded actions for reactions? like a gorgon?
echo briar
Rouge can do that and itās one of the best feats in the game
Mostly because it can use it to get MAPless attacks
surreal basin
Preparation would be cool on a guardian yeah
echo briar
Yea, I can see it as a feat, but as a class feature it would be weird
limber comet
young chasm
does an yone know when howl of the wild is coming to aon/pathbuilder?
surreal basin
Probably not for a little while
Theyāre just now getting to putting monster core up this week
eager mountain
does an yone know when howl of the wild is coming to aon/pathbuilder?
nah
rustic cape
Oh shit Wild Mimic gets monk stances
That's great
Howl of the Wild archetypes are great
thorny berry
I also love the werecreature archetype
any spoilers? That's the one I've been most curious about
limber comet
So this isn't something I have yet but apparently Wardens of Wildwood book 2 has some really cool stuff in it
eager mountain
limber comet
What's it got
Apparently there's a ||woodwarp creature type||
Wardens of Wildwood book 2 spoilers
clever cobalt
||like, fleshwarp but wood?||
limber comet
||afaik, there weren't many details beyond "people warped by exposure to the plane of wood"||
clever cobalt
Oh rad
eager mountain
As in many other parts of the galaxy, the Drift Crisis changed everything. Now, the energy barrier surrounding Birnamās Bubble cracks like shattering glass, and shards of this solidified energy have begun to fall through the atmosphere to the planetās surface, causing significant destruction. Enter the breach and uncover the secrets of the lost civilizations of Birnamās Bubble before they're lost forever!```
The Bloom that emerged in Pact Worldsā space was much changedāunresponsive, careening out of control, and with no sign of the shipās crew. Explore the biomechanical corridors of the Bloom to uncover the fate of its missing crew and face off against a dangerous, alien predator that canāt be allowed to survive.
The Bloom is haunted. Thatās the least of your problems.```
Step right up, come on down, and ready your laser pistolsā¦ Youāre the next contestants on Zo!ās Wheel of Monsters! Where thereās a big prize if you make it out alive!```playing in my wensday game
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS THING
ive never heard of this before
tough perch
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS THING
~~ its a mist stalker~~
warped orbit
It's just a little guy
eager mountain
huh I didnt figure it was an elemental till I absorbed it
becuase im a water kineticist
I absorbed it then cut it in half with a wind cutter
and it died
cyan raven
My worry about the martial summoner archetype is that because you and the eidolo...
kindred warrior's got more than just melee prof, also gets armor prof, can use boost/reinforce eidolon on both you and your eidolon at the same time, and a panache-like status where you get rogue's Gang Up basically and can spend the status for a big bonus
having been in playtests, it's dope
turbid dagger
Wow, that does sound rad
cyan raven
it is! in the playtest i was in, someone played kindred warrior + synthesist (fuse with eidolon) and it was dope. when the eidolon became active it like crawled out of her neck
limber comet
Oh shit?? Baller
heavy mesa
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS THING
Stormy of course
solar jacinth
Maybe I'm being silly becuase I'm playing through a modded version of Heretic, but I think it would be fun to play a Wizard/Fighter in PF2
Or Wizard/Ranger? Something that moves and shoots a lot.
barren cipher
starlit span magus is here for you as a single class solution
dark fjord
can confirm
all the spellstrike benefits without proccing reactive strikes from your spells having manipulate
harder to make work with fatal ranged weapons because reload action economy + spellstrike action economy == never enough actions
solar jacinth
starlit span magus is here for you as a single class solution
Magus still allowed in 2.5?
barren cipher
i don't even know if it's gonna get an update
solar tendon
probably not
barren cipher
it's compatible though, buffed by the new cantrips if nothing else
echo briar
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ossianstudios/pathfinder-the-dragons-demand?ref=android_project_share looks like weāre getting a PF2 Crpg
Although it could theoretically be 1e, or even a unrelated system (although that seems very unlikely)
echo briar
Wait, Arron Shanks confirmed itās PF2 https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/7eo0zo2Cxk
Set to be officially announced at Paizo con
turbid dagger
Wait, Arron Shanks confirmed itās PF2 https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/7e...
ACKKKKKKK
My pals shared this around earlier and I was like 'I will not get hype until I learn this is PF2e'
surreal basin
Magus still allowed in 2.5?
Important to note: classes that are not getting remastered are still allowed
Same for spells, monsters, items
Itās only the stuff getting actively replaced in the remaster thatās supposed to be retired
limber comet
Even then, it's up to gm discretion
I'd still allow shocking grasp if you're playing a magus and need a roll to hit spell
surreal basin
Well yeah in the same way that everything is up to GM discretion I just meant the intent of the remaster
solar jacinth
Important to note: classes that are not getting remastered are still allowed
Oh okay, that helps a lot.
surreal basin
:3
Thereās some stuff that will need errata but I think magus already got theirs
For arcane cascade
solar jacinth
I think when it comes to PF2 I might be better off as a player than a GM but we'll see.
rustic cape
Ossian is mainly a nwn module dev
Their NWN stuff was pretty okay
echo briar
For arcane cascade
Well, the last errata did change the name to arcade cascade
So the magus needs errata errata
crystal walrus
Darknes over Daggerford for 1 is apparantly the better module
thorny berry
I'm curious what sort of scope/production value we're talking here
clearer idea when they get to the video, I guess.
heavy mesa
Thinking of purchasing an AP. Which gives me the most bang for my buck, Stolen Fate, Sky Kingās Tomb, or Season of Ghosts?
carmine egret
Beginner Box spoiler question: ||Is there a way for characters to deduct the properties of that Gozreh-blessed water with skills? It only mentions identifying the god in question but it feels kinda dire to potentially debuff a character if they decide to take a sip--or for them to waste the healing effect.||
warped orbit
Thinking of purchasing an AP. Which gives me the most bang for my buck, Stolen F...
Stolen Fate is 11-20, Sky King's Tomb is 1-10, Season of Ghosts is I think 1-12 or so?
the first two are three books each, SoG is four books
surreal basin
Season of Ghosts seems like
Genuinely crazy good
Like maybe one of the best modules for 2e to date
clever cobalt
It's pretty good so far
surreal basin
Iām playing in stolen fate and itās been really cool
Itās probably one of the best 11-20s in terms of not needing a preceding campaign
You can kinda just go right into it
warped orbit
we're about to start into Stolen Fate today
after we wrapped up our AV game recently
surreal basin
Don't die
our gm did a cool job like
threading stolen fate hooks into gatewalkers for us
limber comet
Season of Ghosts is so peak
frank crystal
Oooo I just realized something
I just got a new job but Iām living with my family rn for the summer inbetween semesters
So I think Iām gonna use that money to commission an artist for a group shot for my current campaign
warped orbit
interesting feature I noticed in our game today
on the newest version of the Foundry module, the rolls of the monsters get hidden now for players
so you can't see their modifiers on the rolls anymore
frank crystal
Yah itās neat
turbid dagger
Oh huh, I assumed that was always a thing
frank crystal
I think you can set it back but itās nice to hide metagame information
worthy stump
that's been a setting for a while now, i'm pretty sure. probably got set to default or something recently
frank crystal
Specific question, what do yāall think is a good look for a vaguely Catholic inspired war priest to wear to a high society party?
worthy stump
hmmm. maybe something like what the antagonists in Divinity Original Sin 2 wear?
frank crystal
Oh yah thatās a good aesthetic to draw from
carmine egret
Maybe it's a stretch but I've been letting one of my players roll Art Lore rather than Religion to identify icons and the like, and it's a fun vibe. Like yeah there's gotta be tons of statues and paintings of Abadar, you should know what he looks like if you appraise that stuff.
worthy stump
makes sense to me, tbh. and a good way to get some use out of a background lore
carmine egret
Said character was a smuggler in Taldor so I have to assume he was fencing noble portraits and whatnot
echo briar
So, at higher levels, is there anything RAW to prevent you from recalling knowledge on something you know you will crit fail to figure out something thatās not true?
RAI is pretty obviously ādonāt let them roll/donāt tell them anythingā, but could I ask for the lowest save, get a wrong answer, and then eliminate it?
I feel like I remember a rule to prevent that but I canāt find it
worthy stump
the GM having the option of just not giving information on a crit fail is part of RAW
Critical Failure You recall incorrect information. The GM answers your question falsely (or decides to give you no information, as on a failure).
eager mountain
true delta
Fox ancestry?
eager mountain
To start off, it seems poorer citizens of Kaer Maga, the City of Strangers, have been going missing, and while many think they've simply left to emigrate to New Thassilon, a purported haven for outcasts, an independent journalist, Nellie Bow, feels that there's something unsavory going on. Sheās found her investigation hampered by rumors spread by an unknown party. Without any other options, she's turned to the Pathfinder Society. Itāll be up to you to figure out whatās going on, and put a stop to anyone taking advantage of any desperate dreamers in the City of Strangers.````kitsune
true delta
Ah
light gyro
Oh right, Starfinder. i was wondering where the hell they'd find clothes like that. also, reminds me of Xenia, the rejected linux mascot
eager mountain
*Oh right, Starfinder.* i was wondering where the hell they'd find clothes like ...
judging by the description, thats just a pathfinder character
idk where she got the clothes
light gyro
oh wait you're right. well, the blog has her next to a hound of tindalos so i've got some ideas
turbid dagger
Kaer Maga š š š š š š š š š š š š š š š
eager mountain
also bug is justice
eager mountain
Kaer Maga š š š š š š š š š š š š š š š
yeah unfortunately its only society
turbid dagger
Its a 3rd through 6th level scenario so decently meaty
surreal basin
Yknow, itād be fun to have a faction influence or rep system where you get like
A status bonus to social rolls if youāre good with a group
crystal walrus
Is that not factored into regular social circumstances?
light gyro
archive of nethys is down atm but i believe the diplomacy skill outlines attitudes - which is probably relevant
Oh! i found it! You might want to look at the Reputation sytem - page 164 of the game-mastery guide (pre-remaster)
carmine egret
So I'm about nine rooms into Beginner Box (we're going slowly due to playing by text) and my wife is feeling frustrated by their Elf Ranger. She's Outwit with the Monster Hunter feat and Titan Wrestler from a background, and fights with a one-handed axe. I don't have the stat array on hand but I know she has ST 14, DX 16, and more CH than WS. The mindset was that they didn't want to have to minmax or lean into the typical Ranger archetypes of archery or dual-weiling.
From my perspective the build might be unoptimized but it's got a niche, however my wife hasn't really been leaning into its strengths. They've only tried to use Hunter's Mark bonuses once, but got discouraged when Demoralizing an animal didn't work due to the language penalty and a surprisingly high Will DC. The latter plays into a larger problem they have with d20 systems where rolls often feel like a coin flip, especially if you're not minmaxing.
On my end it also feels like circumstances haven't been in their favor, between some unlucky rolls and the fact that we're in a tutorial dungeon where debuffing a 5 HP critter feels like a waste when the Fighter is one-shotting them left and right.
light gyro
if you pump dex over str and then attack with a single-hand non-finesse weapon, with no game-plan for the other hand, then yeah you're not gonna hit anywhere near as well as a fighter. i don't know what to suggest other than it's not a sin to pick options that work well together.
carmine egret
Their argument was they wanted the DX for defense, they're pretty nervous about that too after almost getting mulched by a rat.
I have suggested using the off hand for grappling but it hasn't had an opportunity to be attempted yet
light gyro
also recc intimidating glare as a skill feat to get rid of the -4 on demoralise.
turbid dagger
Their argument was they wanted the DX for defense, they're pretty nervous about ...
Rangers can wear medium armor so this ain't an issue
carmine egret
They said they didn't want armor that was too restrictive. If that's not much of an issue I can pass that along.
carmine egret
also recc intimidating glare as a skill feat to get rid of the -4 on demoralise.
I have mentioned that, think it could be a good acquisition, especially because the character already looks like kind of a slasher lol.
I do love the concept, she's an elf ranger who has none of the elf ranger mystique, just a weird lumberjack who tells stories about cryptids.
barren cipher
they really need to tell you somewhere that you need the stat you hit people with to be as high as possible
medium armour isn't restrictive at all if you meet the strength requirement, you can swim just as well in a breastplate as leather
warped orbit
So I'm about nine rooms into Beginner Box (we're going slowly due to playing by ...
Hmm, they did unfortunately kind of set themselves up to struggle a bit with those stats and Edge
I'd agree with shifting some of that Dex into Str, that'll improve their accuracy and also allow maneuvers with the free hand
18 Str and 12 Dex with a breastplate would be good probably
warped orbit
Basically maxing out your attack stat is pretty important for accuracy, so I would pretty heavily recommend a +4 in either Dex or Str
Str gives slightly better danage and weapon selection, which is why I'd lean toward that
Also maneuvers are really good, and could work with having a good Athletics
silver geyser
Good ole Trip.
warped orbit
Outwit as their Edge is also a bit tricky
Outwit can be good, but you really need to leverage the skill bonuses a lot
Going Monster Hunter was good for that
carmine egret
Do you think she can get away with keeping Wis low? Makes some Recall Knowledges a little trickier but I feel like Feints and Demoralizing are handy, especially with Outwit.
silver geyser
Demoralizing is honestly amazing.
warped orbit
Leaning more on Demoralize for now is okay
They can still increase Wis at 5 and 10
Setting up for Master Monster Hunter later
carmine egret
medium armour isn't restrictive at all if you meet the strength requirement, you...
Does it interfere with Stealth?
barren cipher
not at all, unless it has the noisy trait
warped orbit
As long as you have the Str requirement, there are no penalties for medium or light
rustic cape
Demoralizing is honestly amazing.
1 action for a -1 penalty to everything on an opponent is a hell of a drug
And thereās a ton of synergistic feats for it
light gyro
(in summary: persistant mental damage on demoralize, frighten on hit, cant lose frightened the turn after a successful hit, another hit to make them off-guard as long as they're frightened, bonus damage that scales with the frightened value on strikes)
unborn rain
Fear builds are kinda scary
frank crystal
I made my dragon eidolon summoner an intimidation build on the side
carmine egret
We talked it over some more and it seems like the key issue is she wishes there was a big axe that was also Finesse, or at least there was a better way to play a nimble elf with a big axe
Seems like a matter of personal fantasies conflicting with mechanical conventions, which I can sympathize with.
warped orbit
there aren't any finesse axes unfortunately
perhaps reflavoring a different weapon might work better there?
frank crystal
Iāve found the lion scythe is a pretty good finesse axe proxy for my wanderer gunslinger
Along with just generally being a solid weapon
carmine egret
Oh that is nice, though i'm a little leery of taking fluffy weapons out of their context, y'know?
I will continue working things out. Thanks for all the input!
light gyro
flurry ranger glaive - swing that shit like it owes you money, reach for distance, deadly d8
carmine egret
That reminds me, are any ranged weapons agile?
light gyro
off the top of my head i suspect like... star knife?
carmine egret
Air repeater makes sense
light gyro
this site is very good for filtering items https://pf2etools.com/items.html
carmine egret
I was trying to figure out the best way to do a minigun build, lol. Flurry Ranger with barricade buster would be funny.
carmine egret
Yeah the downside of firing fast is spending ammo fast
light gyro
surprised there's no dakka gunslinger. you got drifter (mobile), pistolero (cowboy), sniper (meet the), triggerbrand (please use combinations we promise they're good) and vanguard (close-ranged)
worthy stump
you're right, yeah, that is a niche that could be filled
carmine egret
Maybe because it's a bit less of a fantasy vibe. But maybe someday.
carmine egret
your reload compression bonus rider action is:
Big brain
light gyro
just wait for sf2e to drop, the classes are technically cross-compatible
worthy stump
we heard you like reloading, so we put more reloads in your reloads
worthy stump
just wait for sf2e to drop, the classes are _technically_ cross-compatible
and true, although for, eg the soldier, i think a chunk of their stuff relies on weapon traits that aren't really present in pf2, like burst
carmine egret
surprised there's no dakka gunslinger. you got drifter (mobile), pistolero (cowb...
Sudden thought, maybe that could show up in Arcadia World Guide
warped orbit
please give some more accessible repeating magic guns in Arcadia book
starguns are so cool, but they are all fucking legendary artifact level
surreal basin
Massive new round of errata came out btw
warped orbit
oh?
oh hey Rolling Mudslide now functional
Acknowledge Fan is now incap and 1 minute immunity
clever cobalt
Anything notable?
warped orbit
Quick Spring only works if you successfully Tumble Through an enemy space
turbid dagger
Nice, I always kind of figured that was the intent of it
It always read to me as 'someone assigned to writing rules text did not realize that actually tumbling through is optional'
novel merlin
Where is all of this errata
surreal basin
Also inventor got a stealth buff
turbid dagger
Yes that
warped orbit
Unstable is now DC15
surreal basin
This is basically just a list of all errata ever
But the stuff on top is newest I think
turbid dagger
bless
warped orbit
the new stuff is from Gun's and Gears upwards I think
barren cipher
finally
surreal basin
Oh bullet dancer got buffed
solar storm
This happened a while ago fwiw
surreal basin
Spellshot gets wizard spellcasting
barren cipher
how has it taken them like five years to finally put this in the bin
surreal basin
Oh, okay
warped orbit
Oh bullet dancer got buffed
yeah it seems actually somewhat functional now
warped orbit
Spellshot just has Wizard archetype stapled on now basically
which is probably good
Reinforced stock two-hand value increased to d8.
yo what
turbid dagger
> Reinforced stock two-hand value increased to d8.
yo what
GACK?????????????????????
Thats NUTS
warped orbit
yeah that's actually pretty strong
turbid dagger
Holy dooly crossbow crackshot
turbid dagger
If your crossbow has backstabber, it just
Goes up a die step when it procs with crackshot
warped orbit
oh yeah combo weapons got a lot of changes apparently
surreal basin
Oh or the firearm portion - they changed a couple guns
Nothing foundational tho
Black Powder Knuckles are monk weapons tho
warped orbit
If your crossbow has backstabber, it just
Goes up a die step when it procs with ...
Sukgung Sniper sweep
surreal basin
That sounds like you could do chicanery
novel merlin
If your crossbow has backstabber, it just
Goes up a die step when it procs with ...
Doesn't look like a die step, just +1 damage per die
Which I guess is the average of a die step?
surreal basin
Arbalest got a price reduction so thatās nice
warped orbit
Doesn't look like a die step, just +1 damage per die
Backstabber is normally only 1 extra damage flat
or 2 if you have Greater Striking I think
novel merlin
Spellshot getting actually spellcasting is huge
solar storm
This happened a while ago fwiw
Specificially the Wounded errata
turbid dagger
Doesn't look like a die step, just +1 damage per die
The upgraded backstabber effects that are at the end of the screenshot I posted is 2 precision per damage die
turbid dagger
effectively making d8 a d10
solar storm
THEY GAVE IT A DURATION
Good change, it was fucked up previously haha
surreal basin
Not just a permanent thing
warped orbit
Itās a stance now
yeah, bit of a nerf
somewhat unfortunate for Fighters
novel merlin
Makes it more balanced for the classes that could abuse it the most
I'm literally spellshotting all over the place rn
surreal basin
Mood
surreal basin
I LOVE SPELLSHOT CHARLIE
thorny berry
groan @ combination weapons not just losing the toggle (and an attendant triggerbrand rework) but oh well
better statlines is nice
solar storm
Oh hey Quick Spring nerf
novel merlin
Spellshot with buffed combination weapons...
thorny berry
looks like six more weeks of protector tree lol
warped orbit
that new Crossbow Crackshot is genuinely kinda nuts I think
might make Arbalest Sniper actually pretty strong
surreal basin
May I repeat
solar storm
looks like six more weeks of protector tree lol
As in the move wasn't nerfed?
surreal basin
I LOVE CROSSBOOOOWS
thorny berry
As in the move wasn't nerfed?
ye
warped orbit
As in the move wasn't nerfed?
no changes to Timber Sentinel or Winter Sleet
solar storm
Timber Sentinel could stand to have like a 1 minute CD or something
thorny berry
wack
solar storm
Shit's nuts imo
surreal basin
I think theyre acceptably good personally
thorny berry
winter sleet is probably more egregious with the weird way balance actions work
warped orbit
I think Timber Sentinel is okay personally, but it is very powerful
solar storm
winter sleet is probably more egregious with the weird way balance actions work
Definitely more egregious yeah, Balance is a whack action
barren cipher
timber sentinel is not as game-warping as sleet yeah
solar storm
I'm running AV which admittedly plays to TS's strengths a lot but it's been very distorting so far
surreal basin
Is spamming it over and over again even really contributing as much to the fight as like
If you just killed the guy
thorny berry
it definitely was when I played alongside it
solar tendon
surreal basin
With your blast
solar tendon
oh thank fuck
solar storm
Yes definitely haha
warped orbit
Is spamming it over and over again even really contributing as much to the fight...
having used it, yes
it just gives you a lot of safety
surreal basin
Okay!
barren cipher
i mean you can do both
surreal basin
Probably could use a minute cooldown then ye
warped orbit
and also yeah, you can Timber Sentinel and 1a Blast
barren cipher
blast tree is a great turn
surreal basin
Or make it overflow
surreal basin
Yeah
thorny berry
Or make it overflow
this was the nerf I was expecting
warped orbit
I don't think Overflow would really do much
surreal basin
It would make it much less attractive
thorny berry
I mean it's an additional cost
warped orbit
at most, it makes you lose the Blast if you had to re-up a stance
warped orbit
I'd still do that tbh
surreal basin
Idk then
thorny berry
I mean if you never ever have to move or change up your plan to heal sure
in any non-white room overflow is gonna limit how much you use it
solar storm
I think TS is more balanced normally but in the extremely tight confines of most AV fights its easy to cover most of the party
surreal basin
It essentially turns using it into a three action activity
But also yes
It flourishes in v tight spaces
warped orbit
I played a Wood/Earth Kinet, and my main contribution in fights was just keeping people up with TS and Ravel of Thorns
solar storm
And even protect the tree from its biggest weakness, which is just attacking it directly
solar storm
I played a Wood/Earth Kinet, and my main contribution in fights was just keeping...
This is what I have in my AV game as well haha
surreal basin
See: god why are their map dimensions so fucking weird
thorny berry
^basically yeah
solar storm
Yeah it helps that until floor 3 most enemies are strikers
warped orbit
This is what I have in my AV game as well haha
I was just about to start using Jagged Berms too haha
thorny berry
it's not a catchall but it is Very Strong
surreal basin
Paizo map dimensions didnāt bother me until I played the modules that uh
frank crystal
I will say as the person who GMed for Alaen using that build
Yah timber sentinel basically crippled every striker I threw at the party
surreal basin
The official modules do some editing to the map sizes
echo briar
Strix can now fly (15 ft) at level 1!
surreal basin
Yeah
frank crystal
The only NPCs who did damage were the casters
echo briar
Sure, they fall afterwards, but still
surreal basin
They lowered all the flight stuff to be in line with Awakened animal
barren cipher
i like how timber sentinel is the only one of those two abilities that is actually getting discussed
thorny berry
i like how timber sentinel is the only one of those two abilities that is actual...
well I mean opinion seemed more unanimous on sleet
barren cipher
yeah
solar storm
The only NPCs who did damage were the casters
That's kinda been my experience as well, all the counterplay is either very action intensive, worsens MAP, or both
warped orbit
Sleet is definitely the bigger offender IMO, because it just shuts down the area around you so badly
and also kinda relies on a lot of weird rules intersections
surreal basin
Itās pretty good but falls off hard, later, when enemiesā¦.. essentially canāt fail it since the balance check is non-scaling
Admittedly I donāt think we run it with all the uneven terrain rules super consistently
Since theyāre a LOT
The uneven terrain part probably should be taken out
And turned into just balance when you move, or fall
warped orbit
Itās pretty good but falls off hard, later, when enemiesā¦.. essentially canāt fa...
nah, because of a few things with Balance
surreal basin
Because that fucks up enemies enough
solar storm
Sleet is fine except that the Balance action wandered in from an OSR game where "oops you lose your entire turn haha" is a normal rules thing
warped orbit
namely that Balance is a separate action
which already does a lot
it means anything that includes a Stride doesn't work now
surreal basin
Sleet is fine except that the Balance action wandered in from an OSR game where ...
Yeah
Itās weird
No itās very strange as a feat yeah
echo briar
Also quick spring actually requires that you tumble through now
warped orbit
and then it also kinda comes down to how you rule about using Balance when you aren't already next to/in the area
surreal basin
Other feat
warped orbit
On its own itās fine BECAUSE of friendly fire but
yeah but Safe Elements lmao
warped orbit
the feat that every Kinet who even remotely cares about using an aura will take
surreal basin
In a vacuum without like
Safe elements as an option
I can see kinda why itās like how it is
surreal basin
it should probably be a feature I mean uh
warped orbit
because a lot of them have pretty annoying drawbacks, that you can just negate entirely with Safe Elements
surreal basin
Although I guess there are kinets that donāt care about auras
Before safe elements our kinet was constantly giving enemies in gatewalkers fire resist
Which is a problem because thereās a lot of cold themed stuff in that
Soā¦. You can imagine
āItās weak to fire!ā
āFuck, wait, the aura, it takes 1 extra damageā
Sidenote
The inventor change is really interesting
I wonder why they decided to make it more generous
turbid dagger
I've explicitly avoided taking timber sentinel on my wood/water kineticist because of the play reports I've gotten here lol
The whole reason I went for that instead of a cleric is because I didn't want to spend all my turns using two actions on 'damage'nt' š
tough perch
I wonder why they decided to make it more generous
the unstable buff? i think it's because it was supposed to be more or less an equivalent to focus spells
surreal basin
Ah
tough perch
so when focus spells got buffed to remove how many times you could refocus, unstable got a little behind
solar storm
I think Unstable was also just a little undertuned in general
solar storm
Yeah like I said timber sent build doesnāt seem
I think its fun for players who like a job well done or something
warped orbit
Very fun
I enjoyed it, but I also made that entire build about being as annoying a tarpit as I could
surreal basin
:3
solar storm
The big weakness for it is that its fixed at AC10 so enemies can crit it VERY easily and just kill it directly
But that also eats actions and MAP
barren cipher
yeah, they're literally hitting a bush, that's not good action economy
turbid dagger
And the overflow damage will evaporate into mist instead of going into you
surreal basin
Wood/Earth Kinet build big natural fortifications in a war where one side is super primal
Is a brain idea
solar storm
And the overflow damage will evaporate into mist instead of going into you
For me its mostly been relevant when I had adds with relatively poor odds of hitting PCs
warped orbit
I enjoyed it, but I also made that entire build about being as annoying a tarpit...
Armor in Earth, Wood impulse junction and a shield to make myself tanky
Ravel of Thorns and Earth Aura to restrict enemy movement
Timber Sentinel to negate danage, Fresh Produce and later Dash of Herbs to heal
Later on also add Jagged Berms for more movement denial, and the blood root one to slowly kill people in the tarpit
surreal basin
Since Paizo loves giving random dipshits at level like
19
Fucking summon animals 2
warped orbit
Also I had good Athletics for Grappling naturally
solar storm
Yeah its just not relevant for the fight
surreal basin
I just always find it funny when it happens
solar storm
I do like the practice of having and "everyday prep" vs a "throwdown" prep to reward people who surprise powerful people
But that's not usually how APs are written
surreal basin
Thatād be cool
Catch an archmage when he has fucking
Like
Pocket library prepared 6 times
pulls out a book FUCK DUDE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE CHAIN LIGHTNING
solar storm
hahaha
yeah exactly
I think its a cool thing to plan for with certain powerful casters
trail nova
And then you can have a moment where the team jumps a caster who just goes āmy combat prep list is my daily list, eat a Meteor Stormā
barren cipher
as a powerful caster i have prepared a dedicated staff to accommodate all of my utility needs
"staff" in this context meaning "employees", my wizard staff shoots disintegration beams
stuck bane
You know thinking about it, there's gotta be wizards who just don't fight as a general rule, and I bet they have a very different relationship with spell preparation
"I know I've gotta do X and Y chores later, so I'll go ahead and prepare spells Z and W, but I think I'll save the other ten slots for later"
thorny berry
that and, like
I've always taken it as given that the player-facing books are listing off those spells and magic items that are relevant to, y'know, people doing adventuring
one presumes that plenty of other spells exist
but also if you go too deep down that route you get into a whole weird gygaxian naturalism thing where the existence and logical implications of magic end up creating a world that has basically no resemblance to conventional fantasy
tough perch
that and like, the actual power required to do any spell is directly proportional to its use for adventurers
so spells that are good for anything else besides adventuring tend to be lower level
like prestidigitation is more usefull in the day to day than any combat spell
most pratical summon animal uses for a non-adventuring person are done on like its level 1 version
turbid dagger
but also if you go too deep down that route you get into a whole weird gygaxian ...
Yeah realistically if you took all the assumptions a lot of fantasy makes and run with it you get some insane shit that should not resemble reality as much as it does
thorny berry
like prestidigitation is more usefull in the day to day than any combat spell
Yeah, like by itself 'clean something in six seconds' could replace an INSANE amount of human labor
surreal basin
See: some stuff from like, Goblins
frank crystal
I do also think like, it really depends how accessible and scalable magic users are
Obviously the rarer they are the rarer those utility spells are
But also if it takes forever to train new ones then itās probably not practical to replace everything with it
Like even if anyone can learn magic with enough effort, if itās hard you probably still need normal ways to clean clothes
surreal basin
Oh golarion it SEEMS like magic beyond cantrips is a commitment to learn
limber comet
This hurts my brain
barren cipher
yeah that's a bit higher than i would have expected
solar storm
It's actually really high yeah
In the US at least like 1/150ish people is a lawyer iirc
So 1/20 being some kind of low level caster is actually a very high rate
barren cipher
goblins are attacking our sleepy village of 200 people! well that's ok, we have enough amateur spellcasters to kill half of them in six seconds at long range
solar storm
I think some of it is the "highly magical cities, more mundane countryside" demographic effect
But yeah your average town militia can probably field at least a dozen people who know Fire Bolt
barren cipher
i don't mind 'anyone can be a caster if you put the work in', i think that's fine and that if some absurdly rich adventurer decides to spend their retirement making everyone in a small town a level 3 wizard that would be hilarious
solar storm
There's precedent for that!
One of the projects that dragon on Hermea has is making a LOT of sorcerers
silver geyser
Faith is generally an easy access to some magic, and one you'll find even in smaller towns.
This also traces back to ye olde 3.5 days, when they had a breakdown for population percentages of the main classes in addition to NPC classes.
solar storm
Interestingly this is not the case in Golarion
Where Arcane magic is the most common in the public perception
echo briar
I feel like itās mostly innate cantrips, and most of those are like guidance or light
silver geyser
It makes sense that Arcane magic is common for the public.
It's the one that's easiest to teach.
Even an average person can get the fundamentals down.
barren cipher
i think that somewhat depends on whether you think the average person can read
silver geyser
I do, otherwise the goblin mistrust of words wouldn't be considered that notable imo
barren cipher
i'm sure there are like non-literate arcane traditions but those seem more suited to a kind of master-apprentice model
silver geyser
Also yes, there is a long line of non-literate arcane traditions, coming from Goblins.
solar storm
I think literacy is relatively common but I'm not sure
barren cipher
golarion's such a kitchen sink, i assume there's considerable regional variance
echo briar
Counterpoint, a lot of spell casters can just use a innate cantrip from their ancestry, and those are commonly anything other than arcane
Other than kobolds which are changing, I think only gnomes can get arcane spells, and they can get spells if any tradition
barren cipher
i don't think they count in that 5% though
silver geyser
Also, found the silly way that 3.5 calculated how many casters were in a given settlement.
It's a roll plus a setting modifier.
solar storm
Counterpoint, a lot of spell casters can just use a innate cantrip from their an...
I literally just posted the lore book saying that arcane was the most common
barren cipher
they're in the 20% that might only have like... one first level spell slot
silver geyser
First level spell slots are enough to really change up a town.
echo briar
I literally just posted the lore book saying that arcane was the most common
I read that and somehow missed that line
solar storm
Haha that's fair, its unusual for a fantasy setting I feel
silver geyser
But yeah, I remember the 3.5 settlement math being used to explain why even a relatively large city would quickly falter during a plague: There's just not enough people capable of casting Remove Disease to handle things easily unless you immediately jump on it before it ever reaches the Plague stage.
Good ole Curse of the Crimson Throne.
heavy mesa
Goblinoids in general (at least in Avistan) actually seem to trend more divine magic/alchemy
silver geyser
Hobgoblins don't trust Elf Magic, Goblins would have to read for wizardry, and Bugbears just... Don't care for some reason?
solar storm
I'd think what you really want for a plague is contact tracing magic
heavy mesa
Hobgoblins have that thing about hating arcane magic and regular goblin spellcasters seem to trend more clerical
silver geyser
I'd think what you really want for a plague is contact tracing magic
Yep!
solar storm
I'm not sure if that exists though
silver geyser
Probably not at base.
solar storm
But "detect person who infected you" seems really helpful haha
silver geyser
Diagnose Disease was a nice 1st tier spell in 1e.
Which let you know what it did damage-wise and its infection vectors.
heavy mesa
Since the very first AP, goblinoids in Avistan were always super divine magic oriented, since they were often canon fodder for lamashtuan antagonists
solar storm
That's interesting
heavy mesa
Like, to the extent that goblinoids were magic oriented at all
Theyāre usually physical threats
Gobbies attack you with scrap metal cleavers, hobgoblins hit you with sturdy weapons and alchemist fire, snd bugbears bushwhack you from stealth
Serpentfolk are Pathfinderās mainstay āmagic monster humanoidsā
silver geyser
Found the article from Seven Days to the Grave!
To show how even just a few cantrips can make a difference:
In smaller communities, the rarity of healing magic can devastate the population and, in the worst-case scenario, wipe an entire village from the map. In such cases, even lowlevel clerics might be able to stem the source of the disease, halting its progress or eliminating it entirely. For example, where a local well has been tainted with refuse, a cleric could slow a diseaseās progress with purify food and drink spells and by directing the villagers to discontinue using it. Further, given a small population, a clericās create water spell provides an excellent alternative fresh water source.
thorny berry
'civic magic' seems like it'd be a cute subject for like
heavy mesa
I remember Crimson Crown actually had a pretty detailed exegesis of why, even with all the divine spellcasters in Korvosa, disease is still a social threat
thorny berry
A single issue if they still did magazine-style content
solar storm
damn though create water is not up to the task of a whole village
Like obviously it helps
heavy mesa
Even many clerics, thereās still a limited number of ācure diseaseā spell slots per day
solar storm
It's 2 gal/level in PF2 which is better but for a whole village you're just making sure people can drink
heavy mesa
So if a disease spreads super fast (especially with the aid of Urgothoans), even a settlement with alot of clerics can be overwhelmed
solar storm
I'd also expect that especially with Urgathoa in disease's corner there is a specter of "magically resistant pathogens"
silver geyser
I'd also expect that especially with Urgathoa in disease's corner there is a spe...
Correct.
heavy mesa
Yeah, plus incubation periods
silver geyser
Yep. Requires a 5th level caster to do Remove Disease, but the real problem is that if you don't know where the disease is coming from, they can just catch it again.
solar storm
I head a homebrew magic metabolizing MRSA bacterium as a hospital threat
silver geyser
Also not helping is that Remove Disease requires touching the person, which means you can catch Contact diseases
solar storm
Well I guess MRSA is totally innacurate but the same general idea
silver geyser
If you haven't taken a look at Curse of the Crimson Throne, I highly reccomend it Cyan.
heavy mesa
Also if its coming from something like a tainted water supply, Cure Disease wonāt cut it
silver geyser
I head a homebrew magic metabolizing MRSA bacterium as a hospital threat
Also, I'm already thinking of a disease like this, just let me check and see if Mummy Rot is the same in 2e.
I do have an item from 1e that helps make it harder to treat diseases.
heavy mesa
Circling back to magic and goblins, their aversion to arcane magic might actually be part of the reason why Goblinoids had no statehood or political presence in Avistan until Oprak
Because the most organized goblinoids (hobgoblins) culturally abhor a massive equalizer in Arcane Magic, and their typical sources of divine magic arenāt conducive to state building
silver geyser
Yep, Woundweal poison from 1e had this lovely effect:
This gritty black paste is a poison that interferes with an afflicted creatureās ability to recover from injuries. All Heal checks applied to the creature suffer a ā10 penalty. In addition, anyone using magical healing on the target must make a DC 25 caster level check to succeed.
Requires 2 saves to beat, you can only make a save against it 1/day.
And since Remove Disease and the poison handling spells were Healing spells in 1e, you needed a pretty hefty CL check to be able to use them on the creature affected too.
heavy mesa
I remember reading that in Glorantha, wounds are less feared than IRL because healing magic is fairly common, but disease is still terrifying because its harder to cure with magic. I suspect Golarion has something similar going on
turbid dagger
Yeah realistically if you took all the assumptions a lot of fantasy makes and ru...
I was pulled away by other stuff but the biggest thing I point to for this isn't magic but rather the common conceit that the gods and the afterlife are common knowledge, and that it is PROVABLY TRUE that being evil (not even subjective evil, objective evil exists also) makes you go to hell
Like
Would a world in which that is a fact even resemble ours at all
Bjorn Arm-Breaker isn't going to raze villages he knows Eternity Of Torture is gonna happen if he does
barren cipher
that's why you dedicate your arm-breakings to the God of Compound Fractures
echo briar
I mean, if you work your way up, you can be the one causing suffering
eager mountain
Oh hey I was right about the Supra marine chair
The chair gives you 20 land speed, or your swim speed, which ever is lower
echo briar
Also, itās looking more and more likely that rouges are supposed to get a success to crit bump in every save
solar tendon
slippery
solar tendon
slipperyyyy
echo briar
Slippery mind is not the problem, itās rouge resistance
warped orbit
Also, itās looking more and more likely that rouges are supposed to get a succes...
still think it's just a mistake
but who knows
echo briar
Also the fact that rouges get the buff to fort before will, when they end up with expert fort and master will is weird
Like they have better will than fort until level 13, and then better fort than will until lvl 17, where it flips back around.
I donāt think any other save progression works like that
silver geyser
Like
Would a world in which that is a fact even resemble ours at all
Bjorn Arm-B...
Yeah, for Hell, it's about those folks who think they can climb the hierarchy and think they won't become a literal building block of Hell itself.
It's the folks who go to Horseman Land that I don't get. There's no good deal there.
turbid dagger
I don't mind it honestly
Being good at saves is something rogues are known for right?
echo briar
I mean, the rouge was already one of if not the best class in the game. One of its few weaknesses was fort saves
light gyro
Yeah, for Hell, it's about those folks who think they can climb the hierarchy an...
you can totally kill a horseman and usurp them but. good fucking luck lmao
echo briar
Like, its not ruining the game or anything, but I canāt say itās improving it
clever cobalt
you can totally kill a horseman and usurp them but. good fucking luck lmao
Isn't one of yhe Mythic Paths in War of Immortals becoming a Horsman
9 mythic destinies, including the fearsome apocalypse rider and the undying eternal legend
light gyro
oh shit.
good luck to anyone following that destiny. have fun when daddy comes back
though it makes perfect sense that they'd push the horsemen - it's something that seperates them from d&d's cosmology iirc
clever cobalt
It doesn't directly say you're gonna become a Horseman but like
What else.could that mean
silver geyser
Well, there's lesser Daemons than the four Horsemen.
echo briar
What else.could that mean
A new breed of donkeys called "apocalypse" are created, and you ride one of those
eager mountain
warped orbit
"Page 32: Winter Sleet was too strong for multiple reasons. It's been revised to act more like the grease spell, no longer makes creatures off-guard automatically, and now uses your impulse DC. Your DC has a penalty to avoid a long-lasting ability with a low action cost from being too powerful, as often seen in the DCs of monster auras. The first paragraph now reads as follows; the second paragraph is unchanged.
"Bone-chilling, swirling sleet surrounds you, cruel as deepest winter. Surfaces in your kinetic aura are coated in slippery ice. A creature that moves on the ice immediately falls unless it succeeds at an Acrobatics check or Reflex save against your impulse DC ā 2. A creature that Steps or Crawls doesnāt have to attempt a check or save. Youāre immune to this effect.""
solar storm
> "Page 32: Winter Sleet was too strong for multiple reasons. It's been revised ...
Whatās this from?
warped orbit
new errata that was just added
solar storm
Like just just now or the one from this morning?
warped orbit
literally just now
solar storm
Lmfao
warped orbit
it was added to the previous errata
solar storm
I just just discussing this on another server like 20 mins ago
surreal basin
Okay sweet
That feels still very powerful and like
Within the intent of the spell
But just better worded and not so fucked
solar storm
Yeah
worthy stump
the no-save offguard aura and unbalanced terrain were very oppressive to play against, yeah
light gyro
COMBO WEAPON BUFFS 
clever cobalt
How good do you think a Thaum/Sorcerer dual class would be,
solar storm
Probably a little meh since exploit vulnerability doesnāt work for spells
frank crystal
COMBO WEAPON BUFFS <:intensifeyes:454087335101857792> <:intensifeyes:45408733510...
Oh shit where?
solar storm
Yesterdayās errata
frank crystal
What are they?
warped orbit
A bunch of the combo weapons got their statlines adjusted a bit or a trait added
frank crystal
Sweet
unborn rain
What are they?
frank crystal
light gyro
specifically under guns & gears. shame they dont seem to have a way to browse by publishing date or something
warped orbit
thinking about new Crossbow Crackshot again
I think Arbalest Sniper might be very strong now
start your turn unloaded, use Covered Reload to reload and Hide, then Strike with Sniper's Aim or some other 2a metastrike or just a regular Strike
if your target is actually offguard, your Strike will deal 1d10+3 per weapon die, plus the 1 from Singular Expertise and whatever your Weapon Spec is at
you can still do Fake Out by just releasing the Arbalest and using a Gauntlet Bow
then re-grip when you reload next turn
it is precision damage, but precision immunity isn't that widespread fortunately
frank crystal
Arbalest gaming
warped orbit
you keep up very well even with Fatal crits, potentially even higher at higher dice amounts
and your regular hits hit a lot harder
also means you don't need any Str for Kickback
frank crystal
Doesnāt kickback penalize you if you donāt meet the strength requirements though?
warped orbit
yes that's what I meant
Arbalest has no Kickback, so you need no Str
unlike say an Arquebus
limber comet
it is precision damage, but precision immunity isn't that widespread fortunately
Precision immunity is annoying
I think it should be precision resistance tbh
Or there should be at least some way to overcome it, if your main class/subclass feature is precision damage
warped orbit
Do agree yeah
It's been pretty annoying in our AV game with a Precision Ranger and an Investigator haha
limber comet
Like, I get the reasoning behind it, it totally makes sense flavorwise that an entity lacking organs would be harder to hit with proper precision
But I bring to the table that clip of Sensi killing an ooze with a simple slice
solar storm
Dungeon Meshi oozes wouldnāt be precision immune though since they have organs and such
turbid dagger
Yeah, the difference is that dunmesh oozes are large amoeba things with transparent organelles, while PF2e oozes are just like
That one meme where its the bunny with all the parts labelled, but all the labels have been replaced with 'bunny'
They're Slime
From front to back
Undifferentiated
turbid dagger
I agree its annoying though
solar storm
Yeah I agree itās extreme
warped orbit
At minimum, I feel ghost touch should let you ignore it on incorporeal
limber comet
Thank god for house rules but I understand wanting it to have an official ruling on it
turbid dagger
At minimum, I feel ghost touch should let you ignore it on incorporeal
That would be very cool yes
Stab them in the ghost heart
solar storm
At minimum, I feel ghost touch should let you ignore it on incorporeal
Thatād be dope yeah
I also wish there was a way to avoid immunity
For precision damage
Itās too important for too many classes, though I like those sorts of narrative based rules
turbid dagger
Some classes specifically having ways to avoid it would be neat
Though considering Precision is nearly always tied to class features anyway I worry it would just become like
The material component on spells
Where most of the casters have some thing that says 'actually, don't care about this'
Something like Precision Ranger def would be cool to give immunity bypass too
Because then you really could have the Senshi thing of
'well, you just don't know where to stab it right'
limber comet
I also think Investigator should have some bypass
Because while Ranger is like having the knowledge beforehand, an Investigator can just get that shit on the fly
Like some "DISCOMBOBULATE" shit
Anyways yeah precision immunity is cool but also annoying
solar jacinth
Thinking about my "Heretic FPS," inspired elf character and I'm thinking of potential multiclass build between Magus and Ranger
solar storm
More playtest
One of the guardians stole a storm giant's sword and ran away and the storm giant can't chase him because of hampering strikes
This is loony toons finder
light gyro
endlessly funny that stuff like this is optimal play instead of casting 'spell that makes the fight end'
warped orbit
peak shenanigans with Hampering Strikes is the following scenario:
- an enemy with no reach
- two Guardians with reach weapons are flanking this enemy, 10 feet away each
- they both use Hampering Strikes
- the enemy is now trapped, since they are unable to leave their space
light gyro
for years the meta was: swang the doohickey
unborn rain
Wow Flickmace major debuff
I guess its advanced for the damage die and being 1 handed reach?
barren cipher
that was when it was good yeah
warped orbit
it is now only 1d6, but has sweep
which combined with the flail nerf means the flickmace is far from as relevant as it used to be
barren cipher
and a saving throw on crit, which is to be fair extremely necessary
oh actually it doesn't have sweep any more
warped orbit
I believe that's just an AoN error currently
barren cipher
oh good
light gyro
its sweep on pf2etools
barren cipher
the comparison is d6 slashing finesse reach sweep
from chain sword
which seems a little bit overbudget to me
warped orbit
my hot take is I think old flickmace was fine
and the nerf was unnecessary
especially with the hammer and flail nerf coming anyway
silver geyser
Agreed.
warped orbit
but Iunno
they still kinda need to decide wth they really want advanced weapons to even be
there are a few that are still good, but also a bunch that are basically "martial weapon, but it has an extra trait"
silver geyser
I like most of them. All the ancestral weapons are thankfully pretty easy to access, and some (kobold) are fantastic.
There's just some real stinkers, like the Aldori Dueling Sword
warped orbit
yeah but ancestral weapons are also kinda part of the issue IMO
worthy stump
i like a lot of them, but i think generally the juice isn't worth the squeeze for the most part
warped orbit
because as is, advanced weapons are basically unusable unless you have an ancestry feat for them
or one is good enough you wanna be a Human to snag it with that feat
because using any of them without being able to count them as martial sucks
you're just tanking your prof for fairly little gain
worthy stump
and a level 5 fighter feat works too
warped orbit
6, but yes
worthy stump
err, right, 6
silver geyser
This is fair complaints.
There's some non-ancestral weapons that are worth grabbing.
Fire Poi, my beloved
worthy stump
i will forever be sad that, by strict RAW, the Falcata isn't an uncommon advanced weapon, and you can't grab it with the human feat for advanced weapons š
warped orbit
that feat should just be a universal General or Ancestry feat IMO
and let you choose any advanced weapon
silver geyser
One day I will get to play my Flurry Ranger with Fire Poi.
And just be completely ridiculous at TWF.
solar storm
Ok something I'm noticing with this 2 Guardian party
They are SLOW to end fights
Because I'm sort of damage poor
This is round 9 and probably the last
warped orbit
holy shit
solar storm
This is a fairly lengthy fight just because its relatively beefy enemies
unborn rain
oof, that's the point where you have to worry about your 1 minutes effects wearing off
solar storm
(Storm Giant, Elite Nanoshard Swarm, Brochmaw, Elite Abyssium Horror)
(869 HP total)
surreal basin
Oh nice
limber comet
Isn't commander pretty good?
warped orbit
it is pretty good I think, so long as you have people who can make good use of your tactics
limber comet
The oven in Paizo hq must be smoking
That's two playtests in a row where people (here at least) are generally pretty positive on both classes
warped orbit
I think generally you will want your turn to be 1a setup Strike + Strike Hard/Demoralizing Charge
crystal walrus
ah guardian got it in the neck
Commander was well recieved, but guardian is a bit more divisive, from what i saw
warped orbit
Guardian is harder to evaluate I think
I'm personally still a little unsure on them, but hard to say
limber comet
I mean I'm just glad we got another more "simplistic" martial
Like Fighter or Ranger
crystal walrus
i'm pretty stoked about the concept of them
solar storm
Isn't commander pretty good?
It's been extremely good in my playtest
limber comet
Though my brain is struggling to make char comcepts for Guardian atm
solar storm
Not broken I think but an INCREDIBLE force multiplier even just spamming form up
crystal walrus
it's because they're an archetype of fighter i suppose.
warped orbit
Commander gives movement and extra full bonus attacks, the universal good things in PF2 š
limber comet
I'm less excited about the mechanics and more excited to see the various commander characters people cook up
On the mechanics side
INTELLIGENCE MARTIAL THAT ISN'T AN INVESTIGATOR
WOOOOOOO
I really like the stratagem stuff
I think it's a cool way to have a martial
warped orbit
INTELLIGENCE MARTIAL THAT ISN'T AN INVESTIGATOR
ironically, I think Commander archetype might also be a good options for Investigator itself
if your Devise roll is bad, just make your ally Strike
solar storm
I'm less excited about the mechanics and more excited to see the various command...
Ours was a mounted dragoon cavalry commander riding one of those large dwarf goats
limber comet
Hell yea
Athamaru eel rider cavalry
On the topic of playtest classes
I'm really curious to see Animist fully cooked
fast hill
ONE OF MY PARTY MEMBERS CALLED A GHORAN A SALAD
They didn't know the implications š
fast hill
I think it basically was
The ghoran was like "Excuse me? Do you know the story of my people?"
And the recently reanimated skeleton was like "uh, no, actually."
light gyro
wow what a bonehead 
fast hill
the new PC joining the party is a vampire who's apart of the tax collectors union
and one of the players posted this
warped orbit
ONE OF MY PARTY MEMBERS CALLED A GHORAN A SALAD
I'm gonna assume they are a Guild Wars 2 player
rustic cape
Clawdancer is so fucking cool
turbid dagger
Its SO FUCKING COOL
rustic cape
I hope it's an indication of what they're looking to do with monk stances
surreal basin
unreasonably baller
limber comet
I'm sat here thinking about
How much I actually dislike pf2e mermaids visually
I like my merfolk to be more fishy, all the way covered in scales
Like this
They should be gorgeous but also eerie
Not too fishlike, but not too humanlike
rustic cape
Reached level 3 in Frozen Flame last night
eager mountain
Reached level 3 in Frozen Flame last night
eager mountain
Reached level 3 in Frozen Flame last night
got to red cat yet ?
rustic cape
got to red cat yet ?
We just beat the tiger
rustic cape
Oh yeah I punched out her spine the session before last :D
eager mountain
lol
What did you think of the blind heim?
Kinda sad thier ogl
Idk what the fuck they would be changed too
rustic cape
They were super cute and we avenged the precious babies
It was funny, actually -- I'm playing a rogue, so I was sneaking around and disarming traps, and then the morlock leapt down from the ceiling behind me, but I still beat him on initiative
But my GM gave him one action before I went because, you know
Okay reasonable
So he shoves me into the one trap I haven't disarmed
I save for half damage and come back at him swinging
Miss both attacks
He goes, bonks me and chokes me out
I hang on with orc ferocity
And then since I'm being strangled the GM makes a joke about how I have to do my turns in pantomime
This is how I expressed my next turn
stuck bane
The gunslinger and champion in my outlaws game spent time developing a rumor that an abandoned brewery was haunted by a vengeful spirit. ||They recruited the junkyard goblins from our bank heist escape to help||
The next job is ||escorting Gattleby the pyronite inventor, and he wants us to stop by that brewery so weāre gonna be disguised as clerics of calistria off to deal with it||
novel merlin
So I think with the new spellshot errata you can do a pretty fun Arabalest spellshot gubslinger+butterfly blade archetype build that can grab dread striker and mastermind's eye by level 10
Not as straightforward as just going sniper, but less cover dependent and you get spellcasting
limber comet
i mean you can just say you look like that
I could but bleh idk. I like the idea of merfolk being more fishlike overall
eager mountain
I could but bleh idk. I like the idea of merfolk being more fishlike overall
Fair
thorny berry
was idly looking through some archetypes and man
this might be a strong contender for worst feat in the game