There’s no real easy way to get advanced weapons with elves
#Pathfinder
turbid dagger
Elves get some good finesse twohanders
frank crystal
I mean yah but like, that doesn’t matter- yah
tough perch
There’s no real easy way to get advanced weapons with elves
you can try the sword scion background, if your gm is permissive
frank crystal
I’m gonna be honest, I’m not sure I’d really prefer the aldori dueling sword to the rapier to begin with
Disarm is actually worthwhile now
Having the item bonus to it is kinda nice
And deadly is just fun
turbid dagger
I think the Tamchal Chakram is my fav Swash weapon
As its got Rapier Damage Stats and also works for Flying Blade
And its Agile
A surprisingly cracked advanced weapon
frank crystal
Flying blade seems like a really fun thing to build around
echo briar
Just had a commander playtest, and it was interesting. The swashbuckler dropped out at the last minuet, leaving me, the commander, the only front liner
frank crystal
Huh
echo briar
Surprisingly, I barely got hit because they kept moving to flank with me lol
in this particular party comp, with a gun thaumaturge and a gun investigator, reload was a very good command
but not nearly as good as the real MVP, form up
the banners aura is so large, its effectively just "everyone stride for 1 action"
But in this context, it never made sense to use any other commands
If I could prepare more maybe, but with only two at a time swaping them out wasn't a great idea
turbid dagger
Can a Fighter's Bravery reduce an application of Frightened 1 to Frightened 0 instantly?
warped orbit
Yes
turbid dagger
Holy fucking dooly
That's a hell of a level 3 feature then
warped orbit
Bravery is really good
turbid dagger
'You are essentially immune to frightened'
warped orbit
It also makes them hit Expert to all three saves at 3 already
Which a lot if martials do admittedly, but Bravery has some strong extra goodies
turbid dagger
Slight hyperbole but
You aren't going to be getting crit demoralized a lot and you can tank stuff like fear no problem
solar thorn
PF2e fighters seem cracked
Which is good, they need their time in the sun
I just really want to play one to crit fish the fuck out of stuff
turbid dagger
I can confirm that Fighters just crit things all the time
If you want maximum odds of critting try Double Slice Fighter
To double the amount of no-MAP attacks you make
turbid dagger
This was one session, at level 1
Now, mind
Two of those were nat 20s
But one of them was a 16
solar thorn
Righteous
surreal basin
I played a meteor hammer fighter 1-20
That is genuinely some of the most fun I’ve had in a TTRPG
light gyro
Looking up meteor hammer lead me to learning pf2e has a kusarigama
(unfortunately I'm pretty sure it's outclassed by meteor hammer unless you really like slashing damage/are a weapon monk)
surreal basin
it's certainly not a bad weapon tho
slashing/bludgeoning is a great versatile combo
uhhh
it do got disarm which isn't awful now
light gyro
True. i think i just need to work through the blocker that is 'b-but it doesnt have a stance to go with it tho!!!!' like most other monk weapons do (peafowl stance, shooting star, etc)
young chasm
late to the discussion about flanking earlier
but he could flank if the one with reach was one tile up
reach weapons count 2 diagonals as 10 feet
frank crystal
All swash finishers do the 2d6 bonus precision damage right?
solar storm
yee
frank crystal
K sick
carmine egret
Played an intro and first encounter for Beginner Box last night, had a good time! It was kind of a static shankfest because I wanted to focus on the baseline fundamentals but going forward I'll try and encourage stuff besides Strikes more
solar storm
I think it can be good to sort of demonstrate stuff like grabs and shoves with new players but also that's sort of tricky with kobolds since they're not that good at them haha
carmine egret
The first kill was from our undine gnome druid hitting a rat with a spell, it rushing over to attack her, and her immediately using the brine blood reaction to melt it
frank crystal
I think it can be good to sort of demonstrate stuff like grabs and shoves with n...
Could maybe run some things with orcs for that?
Similarly low level but like, with an actual athletics skill to use
solar storm
Yeah orcs can do it well
frank crystal
Are there any skills that kobolds are particularly good at?
warped orbit
they have Deception and Stealth I think?
barren cipher
stealth, perception
frank crystal
Could maybe throw in some feints at least then
barren cipher
depends on the kobold really i guess?
frank crystal
How many kobold statblocks are there?
solar storm
Thematically I think a lot of their strength is from using adverse terrain to their advantage, but also Feint is pretty good
5
frank crystal
That’s honestly quite a bit
solar storm
Yeah its not a bad spread
carmine egret
I have a Mastermind Rogue and an Outwit Ranger in the party so emphasizing Feint is definitely a priority, heh
solar storm
If nothing else you can just give them a Deception proficiency to help there
frank crystal
Does pathfinder work off of metallic dragons can become humanoids and chromatic can’t?
Because it seems to be a bit inconsistent what dragons can and can’t transform
light gyro
i don't know if the remaster has changed anything but *in pre-remaster i believe all dragons have the capacity to learn to Change Shape
sinful gyro
Dragon lore has changed with the remaster, so I'm not up to date
frank crystal
i don't know if the remaster has changed anything but *in pre-remaster i believe...
Also they gotta do it with a spell?
light gyro
it's mentioned under the group info for chroma and metallic dragons. https://2e.aonprd.com/MonsterFamilies.aspx?ID=34
frank crystal
it's mentioned under the group info for chroma and metallic dragons. https://2e....
Oh I missed that, thanks
frank crystal
You just punch like a dragon
Honestly wanna do something dumb like a fighting tournament with a secret dragon
Everyone calls them euphemisms and titles for dragons
solar storm
Lore wise I don’t really care
Post remaster there's no chromatic/metallic distinction
frank crystal
Turns out they’re actually just a dragon who shape changed to qualify for the event
solar storm
Though Conspiracy Dragons are the really good shapeshifters
light gyro
You just punch like a dragon
the nice old lady gets her purse snatched one day and slaps the mugger so hard he leaves an impact crater across the street
frank crystal
Post remaster there's no chromatic/metallic distinction
Yah, now we got this list of spellcasting list dragons
light gyro
strength of thousands book 5 spoiler. ||incredibly funny encounter to slip in after two 'encourage your players to think their way towards a peaceful solution' encounters. already excited to run this book.||
turbid dagger
strength of thousands book 5 spoiler. ||incredibly funny encounter to slip in af...
Oh so this is a thing that happens multiple times in SOT
The whole ||'You should learn to solve problems without violence' -> 'AAAAAAAAAAAA KILL IT AAAA KILL IT NOW AIEEEEE' thing||
true delta
Unfortunate...
light gyro
Oh so this is a thing that happens multiple times in SOT
The whole ||'You should...
||i mean its a 1-20 adventure in a game about fighting things. sometimes the lesson you learn is "that guy's an asshole and he needs to go down."||
surreal basin
Yeah it’s
Actually a pretty major flaw imo
Cause it just feels punishing for the players
light gyro
||i'm not being sarcastic when i say im excited to run this chapter. fuckin. exploding ramen cart. michael sayre i was not familiar with your game.||
frank crystal
They are truly evil
frank crystal
Also huh
Zone of truth in this game doesn’t specify wether the caster knows the target failed their save or not
I’m gonna put that in my back pocket
frank crystal
o7
silver geyser
The Bulette we can have as a Landshark.
limber comet
Also I thought it was cool that Bulettes were just animals
Not magic beasts, but natural to the pathfinder world
frank crystal
Honestly that’s one kinda enemy I do wish there were more off
Fantasy animals that aren’t Beasts
silver geyser
Fantasy animals that aren’t Beasts
Digmauls! 😄
frank crystal
My beloved 😌
Also I gotta say, I know why they’re not including, maybe more then any other monster, but man I’m gonna miss owlbears
I still love them so much
They’re so simple and a little dumb but they’re such fun monsters
They’re so self explanatory
They’re exactly what they sound like
worthy stump
Also I thought it was cool that Bulettes were just animals
their origins are actually as a magically created species, according to their bestiary entry. but besides that, they're just normal animals, yeah
frank crystal
See Kiryu wouldn’t be a secret dragon in disguise
He’s just a guy with a dragon tattoo
Also speaking of dragons, do we know what’s going on with dragon eidolons?
Will they be changed to the new dragons or are they staying metallic and chromatic?
Because they aren’t getting remastered but also they’re no longer really a thing I think
solar storm
I don’t think Summoner is up for changes in the remaster
surreal basin
Yeah
solar storm
But maybe it’ll be supplemental?
frank crystal
Hmm alright
surreal basin
I really don’t think it’d be a huge issue either way
frank crystal
But maybe it’ll be supplemental?
Just new options in whatever book they wanna include them in?
frank crystal
I mean yah but like, with new lore comes replacing the old lore
solar storm
It’d be pretty easy to change them lore wise I think
frank crystal
Though actually isn’t there a bludgeoning dragon in the new ones?
solar storm
I think so
frank crystal
Bludgeoning resistance sounds hella strong
solar storm
I might just have missed it
fossil temple
He’s just a guy with a dragon tattoo
Kiryu is the best Non-Temple Monk, Monk
frank crystal
Is he a Non-Temple monk?
fossil temple
Unless Prison is a hell of a Temple
frank crystal
His trainers in the game are usually extremely skilled traditional martial artists
That’s gotta count for something
fossil temple
Oh absolutely, but i meant, like
he is not a Shaolin Monk
It's me poking at people that think to play a Monk class you need to be a Shaolin Monk-like
frank crystal
Oh absolutely, but i meant, like
he is not a Shaolin Monk
Fair enough
frank crystal
~~It's me poking at people that think to play a Monk class you need to be a Shao...
Also yah
ashen knot
thorny berry
y'know speaking of spellcasting support
what's up with the fact that you can basically never get a circumstance/status bonus to spell dc anyway
thorny berry
Fear of Slow
my midlife crisis is going fine, thanks, but I still wanted to talk about casters
solar storm
hahaha
thorny berry
surreal basin
Playtest partially done:
Did 5-10-15
Guardian is cracked as fuck actually, it’s super good
thorny berry
huh
solar storm
5-10-15 like levels?
surreal basin
Yeah
solar storm
Mine is tomorrow
surreal basin
Like we did 3 combqts
solar storm
Level 13 but with 2 guardians
solar storm
What's take third in this case?
surreal basin
Take hits
solar storm
Level 13 but with 2 guardians
(Commander, Guardian, Guardian, Rogue, Witch)
surreal basin
Why did my phone do that
solar storm
Ok that makes sense
I was wondering if it was like taking 1/3rd damage overall or something haha
But yeah that makes sense
thorny berry
is the intercept DR just that good?
solar storm
Putting hits on tough as nails people is good
surreal basin
I mean it is but also like
You can basically stand next to a squishy and make it so they aren’t allowed to be hit
thorny berry
I was sort of iffy on 'well you're a non-con non-d12 class and you just opted (via this or taunt) to not use your better AC progression'
but I guess that does still put you squarely at Not A Wizard
solar storm
Yeah even without being like theoretical maximal toughness the class is way tougher than any backline thing
thorny berry
yeah the dr seems good
surreal basin
And like
You gotta think of it different than a fighter
You better armor progression is not to make people miss you
It’s to make you just a bit more surviveable
solar storm
I am glad to hear that the reddit doomer zeitgeist isn't bearing out in play
surreal basin
Cause like, even with taunt, you’re giving up your better profession
But
You’re giving that up in order to like
Make yourself an attractive target
They’re the knave from Icon
If you don’t want to take damage it’s not the class for you
solar storm
Need a feat to hit em in the gronch
surreal basin
You will be getting your ass kicked in order to let your dps survive
I also continue to actually think they’re proficiency is fine
thorny berry
like I get why it is the way it is but I still really dislike the notion of taunt giving enemies a bonus
though really I think the class wasn't conceptually for me from the get-go so I just hope it's satisfying for the people it's for
surreal basin
The bonus to hit you is not a malus
It’s a bonus for the class
It’s making you a more attractive target
It’s not a balancing thing it’s painting a target
turbid dagger
But everyone else is already harder to hit than you are
A global to-hit malus to everyone except you is already essentially 'you have +2 to hit me'
BUT if your saying its good I'll buy that, I'm vibing with Guardian
solar storm
I think taunt should really only be used when you're not super close to an enemy
Like if you're already in melee with someone you're doing your job
thorny berry
yeah I was kinda looking at bow-taunt guardian tbh
solar storm
Taunt is for when they're 20' away daring to pay attention to an ally
turbid dagger
Have any of the playtest games been against solo bosses, or group encounters with a miniboss?
solar storm
I will be tomorrow
surreal basin
But everyone else is already harder to hit than you are
A global to-hit malus to...
With your armor prof you kinda only like
turbid dagger
Cuz that seems like the spookiest place to be doing taunt
solar storm
Doing encounter building for it now
surreal basin
Even the playing field
solar storm
I'm gonna do a solo boss and an encounter with a +2 with buddies
surreal basin
Heavy armor, champ progression, why would they attack you, you’re still harder to hit even with the -2
thorny berry
I wonder how they end up interpreting the feedback, given that it seems rather divisive
thorny berry
or what they do with it, rather
surreal basin
So we didn’t do anything bananas
Even if you don’t like Taunt, Intercept is just crazy good tho
turbid dagger
Do a big dragon fight
Thats where the system starts to get a little Sketchy so I'd be interested to see if new classes can hold up at that level
And yeah Intercept is nuts
solar storm
Heavy armor, champ progression, why would they attack you, you’re still harder t...
Hampering Blows+Tenacious Stance+L+Ratio
surreal basin
Better the Guardian gets crit than the rogue who will legitimately instantly fill unconscious
solar storm
Do a big dragon fight
Thats where the system starts to get a little Sketchy so I...
That's the plan!
surreal basin
I mean tbh I don’t think PL+3 dragon is where it should be decided imo cause like
Tbh the whole game fails around that
I def think it’s valuable
Basically I think the perspective should be that Guardian is about self sacrifice - it is a support
It is a support martial
turbid dagger
Its definitely not where it should be decided but its something that IMO is important to consider for a class
Cuz like
The game, for better or worse, assumes you will occasionally fight a big fucker that crits you on a 12
surreal basin
If you take a big hit for your rogue and go down to half health it’s a good thing
You did your job
thorny berry
honestly the conversation feels a bit incomplete just cause I also wanna see what they do with remastered champ alongside it
surreal basin
Because your rogue would’ve gotten splattered by that
turbid dagger
All the APs have Big Fuckers That Crit You On A 12
thorny berry
I'm pretty tempted by the notion of the whole, like
grapple + evil cause thing
and I feel like evil causes are gonna end up looking pretty different somehow or other
(side note I'd always considered grappler to be The Tank Dedication)
solar storm
I mean tbh I don’t think PL+3 dragon is where it should be decided imo cause lik...
I want to test it but "this class falters against solo bosses" isn't a huge problem
Since a lot of classes aren't really built for that
surreal basin
Yeah
Honestly I don’t even think they would cause like
They can take a hit where other classes can’t
Intercept could be saving lives
And backed up with a healer is insane
solar storm
Yeah its just gonna be rough bring the "take damage for others" PC against a monster with damage for days
But it is, admittedly, a lot worse to be the "I can't afford to take damage" PC near one of those monsters hahaha
surreal basin
My commander feedback: I don’t think limiting people to one tactic response a turn is necessary, tbh. Maybe something else prohibiting multiple COMMANDERS at once, like you can only be squad mate for one guy or something
It’s weird how much ranger support it has, tbh - I would like to see it get more generalized/melee support
Beyond that, honestly it’s pretty good but not OP,
Oh also, they need to remove or reorder the feats that give extra tactics and prepped tactics cause they’re too good, you’re basically obligated to take them
I’d also like some more generally useful tactics, they’re all pretty situational in a way where commander can sometimes just not have anything to do if party members don’t really want to move
That’s about my thoughts on it
solar storm
That all seems reasonable to me
surreal basin
Ultimately I think people are approaching Guardian as a class wrong, imo, and it’s a more traditional MMO style tank that you don’t really see in uhhh
TTRPGs a lot
I also do think a lot of the Reddit people complaining about guardian are the kinda people who never actually play the game lol
turbid dagger
Yeah my worry with early commander is that you will basically only ever prep the 'everyone strides' and 'one dude attacks' tactics and use the other slots for like
The climbing and swimming ones, exclusively for Exploration since you can swap them out in ten minutes
surreal basin
Also strike hard needs to be buffed because once you get Demoralizing charge the use case becomes almost nothing
You could not run a party of all guardians but I think that’s good
If that makes sense
They have a highly specific tank role but it’s very good at it
turbid dagger
Also strike hard needs to be buffed because once you get Demoralizing charge the...
Yeah, It def feels like a thing that will eventually get replaced
.......Heighten entries for Tactics 👁️
They Did It For Kineticist
Make it one action after a certain point or something
solar storm
I also do think a lot of the Reddit people complaining about guardian are the ki...
I don't wanna start like an internet thing but yeah I agree
Lots of very white room thing and I saw ESE do a huge write up on why the guardian was awful
Which kind of told me it was good haha
turbid dagger
ESE?
solar storm
Earth Seraph Edna, someone who's sort of internet famous in RPG circles for giving in depth weird and kind of abrasive feedback
surreal basin
Crit resistance with one subclass
solar storm
Banned from here like a year ago
turbid dagger
lmao
But yeah Guardian honestly interests me more than Commander
I really was not expecting to give a shit about guardian but then it rolled out with some fucking
NUUUUTSS
Feats
All the ways you can raise a shield as guardian greatly please me
And then there's flying tackle which I mark out about every time I see it
solar storm
Oh I wanna try that
I have a character concept for a Ruffian
"Soldier but not the very heroic kind"
surreal basin
Yeah I was doin an intimidation ruffian with a longspear and staff acrobat/Mauler as my fps
As a Vishkanya speccd into the big poison
surreal basin
Ye
Yeah she’s a street thug from absalom
It’s just combats so minimal backstory lol
solar storm
yeah makes sense
limber comet
Peer group pressure isn't necessarily selfish tbh
In response to the comic
I mean I guess you could always just say no
solar storm
I think its just not heroic
turbid dagger
I wanna do a staff Ruffian
Though if ever I play a Rogue I'll probably do Thief with Tamchal Chakrams or something
turbid dagger
I just like having the flat damage of str with the switch hitting of dex
Get Dual Weapon Warrior, double slice and double throw
eager mountain
The Anthem
you pilot this mech with music
the massecre
Karkog collosi
demonic mech
" the colosi born "
you have a pyshic connection to a fucking kaiju
and the kaiju is technicaly playable in some form or fashion
light gyro
Karkog collosi
solar tendon
yeah I think with guardian a lot of people are underestimating how effective and unique a hard intercept actually is
crystal walrus
I'd love to try it out
frank crystal
you pilot this mech with music
Wait there’s gonna be mech rules in starfinder?
limber comet
There has been mech rules in sf1e for a while now
The last 1e ap is a mech themed ap
frank crystal
Oh neat
eager mountain
Wait there’s gonna be mech rules in starfinder?
There already was?
turbid dagger
So do I have the right of it that the main advantage of staffs as a spontaneous caster is expanding your spell repertoire
Like, I spend a charge and a spell slot to cast a spell of the same level as the one I spent
So I don't save spell slots or do a bigger spell, I just cast a spell that is on the staff instead of one in my repertoire
(Or I can just spend the charges as normal, in which case I can do one extra big spell like an on-level wand, or a few lower level spells)
solar tendon
yup
turbid dagger
A little sad because it means a Staff of Fire doesn't actually do a great deal for my Phoenix sorc, but alright
Will have to shop around for other staffs
unborn rain
Staff of fire is still good, as it means you're getting more spells each day
turbid dagger
Yes, but I could get more spells each day and also make my spell repertoire bigger
thorny berry
Some staves also have secondary effects that can be useful, like staff of healing slightly boosting heal spells.
turbid dagger
I was looking at staff of healing
Too bad the boost doesn't apply to focus spells
It'd be really nice for Rejuvenating Flames
Phoenix gets Breath Of Life and I have Heal as my level 1 signature so 😔
Same boat as the fire staff in large part
warped orbit
Air has some decent utility spells
and stepping into difficult terrain can be useful occasionally
solar storm
Hampering Blows has been very good so far
silver geyser
God I love Pathfinder. I'm pretty sure which ones are PCs, but not 100% sure. And that is great.
frank crystal
Y’all think a magic item that restrains and hurts a willing creature if they lie is busted?
With how zone of truth functions in this game
solar storm
lmfao
frank crystal
Oh they’re getting fucked up
barren cipher
Y’all think a magic item that restrains and hurts a willing creature if they lie...
if it can't be fooled then it should probably be an artifact or something
frank crystal
Oh yah absolutely
barren cipher
frank crystal
See now that’s something that screams at you when you try and enter a door you’re not supposed to
frank crystal
You aren’t even killing them you’re just making them suffer
barren cipher
hampering sweeps cannot possibly make it to live
solar storm
I agree
solar storm
One of the guardians has walked off well over 100 damage so far
Tough Cookie is a lot of fun too
"gain 109 thp for 1 minute"
solar storm
frank crystal
Never enough dice to roll
carmine egret
Barkeep Mom Thaumaturge is a great idea but also dang that portrait
limber comet
YEAH LMAO
GOLLY
I mean I like it regardless but god
AMIRI APPEAES
AMIRIR
AMM
RAAAA
echo briar
Little known fact, they are actually called a quarterstaff because a staff is 20 feet long
turbid dagger
there isn't a quarterstaff weapon in PF2e though
solar tendon
funnily enough it's actually pretty easy to divide 5 ft by 4
frank crystal
Is it by inches?
frank crystal
Ah
solar tendon
or like my meaning is that you need less significant digits than if feet were decimal
turbid dagger
In todays session of abomvaults-
The team takes 43 damage total as they take turns trying to disable a patch of brown mold
They just need to roll above a 10
turbid dagger
They then critfailed a bow shot to try and kill it from afar, which I took as a chance to have the river drake run them off
Pure comedy
frank crystal
Anyone here played a dual weapon sword and board fighter build?
Main Weapon+Shield Weapon dipping into both feat lines?
tough perch
i only checked him out at level one but isn't that valeros build?
surreal basin
did the first of the two level 20 playtest fights
uh
demoralizing charge needs some kinda cooldown
frank crystal
i only checked him out at level one but isn't that valeros build?
Who’s that?
solar tendon
fighter iconic?
tough perch
Who’s that?
the iconic fighter
frank crystal
Ohhhh
surreal basin
because as it stands once you get it you basically negate a bunch of other tactics
like there becomes no reason to use them
demoralizing charge is just insane
solar tendon
oh huh yeah
surreal basin
why would you ever do End It once you have demoralizing charge
solar tendon
it does more than most of the tactics before you even get to its focal point
surreal basin
Yeah it’s way too absurdly powerful
It needs a cooldown or a per day limit or something
warped orbit
It's definitely the strongest general use tactic I think yeah
Two Strides, two Strikes, potentially Frightened too
Though it does only come up at 15+
turbid dagger
They then critfailed a bow shot to try and kill it from afar, which I took as a ...
This session is Fucked Up bruh
||the dooms of absalom hallway...................||
turbid dagger
Hm
My group has ||killed every Ghost Queen Morlock but Graulgust and his bodyguard regular morlock||
And are now continuining on
Urge to have him return like two floors down for Vengeance...................................
surreal basin
Yeah my ultimate belief is that guardian is great
A massive boon to any team that grabs them and an excellent interpretation of a tank
I would like to see them maybe not get master in will saves? Since they have great fort and can turboboost their reflex it feels unnecessary
Their bad offense is fine because they are defensive kings - taunt to encourage enemies to hit them, intercept to punish when they don’t, and several ways to keep trucking when they get hurt
rustic cape
I think Hampering Sweeps needs to be a core class feature
I think the Guardian should have it but it should not be a feat and should not be accessible through multiclassing
warped orbit
the PF2 reddit just made me realize
Kineticist/Monk dual class
use Fuse Stance to combine two Kineticist stances
very niche situation, but it's cool
clever cobalt
Can't you only do that at level 20?
warped orbit
yes
solar storm
I think Hampering Sweeps needs to be a core class feature
I think it should have a save to escape not just be impossible either way
It leads to some stupid combinations
limber comet
Guardian just needs a lil bit of juice and tweaking
Drink my son...
Slash daughter slash gender-non conforming child
silver geyser
It does look quite good at taking damage.
Just, you know. Doesn't have a way to enforce that.
solar storm
Post-playtest experience I think some of the weaker feats could use a shot in the arm
Like shoulder charge
And I don’t think it really needs the slower weapon progression
limber comet
I think it needs to be the ranger to champion that ranger is to fighter
If that makes sense
solar storm
But equally I don’t think the class is particularly harmed by its lack
warped orbit
I think it's also a bit jank that Guardian has a bunch of overlapping resistances
solar storm
I think it's also a bit jank that Guardian has a bunch of overlapping resistance...
I agree
It’s just a complicated way of “almost always having resistance”
pastel bane
Imma make a glue eater (dragon barb)
unborn rain
Dragon barb is very fun
young chasm
personally i think hampering sweeps should be taken out back and shot
that feat goes against the design philosophy of what makes combat so good
i think if guardians got deny advantage that’d help tie a few things together for the class
frank crystal
Are the new dragons in foundry yet?
clever cobalt
Are they already done?
light gyro
monster core gets added on the... 15th? 18th? something like that.
frank crystal
Oh I thought the monster core was out
trail nova
God. I love the weird/bad feats in PF1e. Just found one that lets you use Smite Evil as a debate tactic. https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Righteous Orator
frank crystal
Destroy demons using facts and logic
trail nova
This one is actually in the catagory of "great, except you don't have anything to spend it on."
echo briar
PF3 gets released, and due to OGL stuff, they need 12 class names that do not appear in dnd 5e. What should they pick?
frank crystal
Honestly my thought is just, synonyms for the 12 core classes
solar tendon
gardener
echo briar
ranger is probably just out of the book period. they may add it in a different book, but too much of it is based on the baggage the name "ranger" has
frank crystal
Though that does get tricky with sorcerer who’s a synonym already for wizard
echo briar
Sorcerer becomes sorceress
frank crystal
All male sorcerers become trans instantly
solar tendon
fighter becomes fightress
echo briar
alchemist is fine
frank crystal
As is witch
echo briar
I like Knave for rouge
frank crystal
Barbarian becomes berserker
solar tendon
monk can be ascetic
frank crystal
Mage feels like the obvious choice for wizard, but that’s boring. Wizards become Arcano Practitioners
trail nova
I'd want to alter the classes more.
frank crystal
Druid could become shaman?
frank crystal
Again mass transition occurs throughout Golarion
echo briar
Druid becomes Drew Ed
solar tendon
bard can be minstrel
echo briar
cleric is priest.
solar tendon
science fantasy game where all the class names are the same just in leetspeak
echo briar
I think magus could be promoted to core
I honestly thing it would be a better fit than any APG classes
frank crystal
Actually wait are we counting classes who were in previous editions but not 5e?
Because if we are that takes away so many options
light gyro
wizard -> black mage
cleric -> white mage
magus -> red mage
druid -> geomancer
there, now paizo wont have to worry about being sued
light gyro
final fantasy joke aside, i think "scion" might be a good swap.
frank crystal
For what class?
light gyro
sorcerer
echo briar
They should introduce dungeon master as a class.
It technically violates no copyrights
And no dnd class has ever had that name
It’s a new Paizo creation
frank crystal
Only if the PCs can choose it
turbid dagger
PF3 gets released, and due to OGL stuff, they need 12 class names that do not ap...
Barbarian: Battlerager
Bard: Maestro
Cleric: Priest
Druid: Shaman
Fighter: Warrior
Monk: Disciple
Champion: Champion still
Ranger: Hunter
Rogue: Infiltrator
Sorceror: Blood Mage
Wizard: Arcanist
Is what I got after a minute or two of thinking
(Which was mostly looking up what classes were in D&D 5e)
stuck bane
“Blood mage? So what, you draw power from dark sacrificial rituals?”
“Oh good heavens, no, my dad’s just an angel”
echo briar
Thats why I would prefer "inheritor"
turbid dagger
I mean
Blood Magic and Bloodline Spells are things that constantly show up in Sorceror rulestext anyway, may as well make it official
Its magic
From ya blood
Its blood magic
young chasm
i don't think druid should be shaman personally
naturist imo is my vote
i think monk can also be Brawler
wait nvm naturist refers to something else LMFAO
wow i did not know that
turbid dagger
Brawler would be nice but also does not fit the ki stuff
young chasm
i think you can detach the name of ki and just replace it with stamina
turbid dagger
Spend stamina too.... Turn into mist
young chasm
it sure is! it's also just a name
limber comet
Ki is such a popular trope/thruline
I know a lot of people don't like monk but it's really nice to just
frank crystal
Spend stamina too.... Turn into mist
You can’t do that?
Clearly you’ve been neglecting your cardio then
limber comet
Have a class that's directly inspired by Eastern culture/fantasy
young chasm
yeah i don't disagree
i think im just of the mind that it's probably better to be a little bit more neutral-aligned and then let people who want that fantasy to flavour it themselves. but i also understand that people like their flavour overlapping with rules and mechanics so
its a weird territory for me personally
limber comet
I mean what's stopping you from flavoring a non ki monk as a brawler
young chasm
i don't think it's fair to make that comparison in this instance but i get it lol
echo briar
subscriber PFDs come out 2 weeks in advance right?
barren cipher
when your order ships i think
echo briar
yea, but orders start shipping 2 weeks before the release date
I am not a subsciber. I am asking when will other subscribers start spoiling things for me
barren cipher
yeah it's usually a couple of weeks, there have been wobbles in the past if i recall correctly
trail nova
PF3 gets released, and due to OGL stuff, they need 12 class names that do not ap...
I'd probably do the following:
- Vanguard (Heavy Armored bruiser type. Maybe has a line for "tough as nails Barbarian")
- Weapon master (gets the "master of a single weapon" out of fighter, draws a lot of monk and swashbuckler. Sword Saint type vibes for the weapon users, needs a better name.)
- Armiger (Ranger, Rogue mashup with an emphasis on "right tool for the job". Name shamelessly stolen from Spheres)
- Magus gets promoted to core
- Alchemist
- Inheritor (Sorc)
- Herald (Cleric)
- Arcanist (Wizard)
- Aspirant (Barbarian, Mutagenist, and Shifter. Becomes something else in combat as the through-line)
- Champion
and then Namoeleon's Maestro and Shaman for Bard and Druid.
(I'd also love to figure out some way of hacking Spheres of Might and Power or something similar into this.)
barren cipher
not sure if it has been mentioned but i think the pf2 reddit/discord chaos has finally concluded
worthy stump
it seems so, yeah
turbid dagger
not sure if it has been mentioned but i think the pf2 reddit/discord chaos has f...
Yeah, I posted about it a few days ago
The mod that started the whole purge stepped down in both reddit and the discord
barren cipher
they have properly cut ties with the discord now and had a bit of a mod purge since then
clever cobalt
Who's the mod on the Discord that we need to be concerned about, if any?
echo briar
Prerequisites: trained in at least one dart
It's time. It's time to get good at darts. You've always wanted to but never wanted to work hard at geting good just like bowling and chess, you want the skill but not the willpower to do all the rest. But now you're finding all the moves and all the tricks of the trade. You didn't know you could throw a dart so many dang ways.
Whenever you strike with a dart, you may interact to draw a dart before of after the strike. This is not an action, and can be combined with any action or activity that involves making a strike with a dart.
The Standard lvl 4, 1 action
Requirements: you are wielding a dart
Your darts can inspire your allies to live up to you standard. Attempt a strike with the required weapon. If the Strike hits, the next creature other than you to attack the same target before the start of your next turn gains a +1 circumstance bonus to their roll, or a +2 circumstance bonus if your Strike was a critical hit.
The Quarterback lvl 4, 1 action
Requirements: you are wielding a ranged dart or a dart with the thrown trait
You know how to throw a dart much further than normal. Attempt a strike with the required weapon, but treating its range or thrown range as 60ft if it was lower
The 180 Chuck lvl 6, 1 action
Requirements: you are wielding a dart and are flanked by at least 2 enemies.
With a quick spin, you can catch your foes by surprise. Attempt a strike with the required weapon. The target is flatfooted to this attack. If the Strike hits, you may step as a free action. ``` So this started as a jokeI doubt we need to be concerned about the mod tbh
I truly do not believe they were being malicious they just
They just got the wrong idea about stuff lol
Its not like they're going to 'infect' pilot.net or something
clever cobalt
Fair
cyan raven
Are the new dragons in foundry yet?
yeah monster core is all on foundry, it's aon that's behind
frank crystal
Oh sick
surreal basin
aon is still massively behind from remaster stuff
the website still needs a lot of cleaning up too
cyan raven
comign may 18
limber comet
So we're getting another Plane of Wood gazetter this month in the AP
surreal basin
oh coolio
limber comet
Waiting for a Numeria adventure that goes to the plane of metal
This volume also includes a look at manifestations of the Plane of Wood, an ecology of the godlike green men, several new magical items, and new monstrous threats!
Green Man lore
Pog
Vol. 3
This volume also includes a look at how to continue the campaign, a gazetteer of a settlement on the Plane of Wood, several new magical items, and new monstrous threats!
echo briar
I hope the commander doesn't get the swashbuckler treatment where people don't talk enough about its problems during playtesting because the other class needs far more work, and it just gets released mostly as is
Like on the Paizo forums, the guardian has 9 active threads, the commander has 1
surreal basin
yeah
(especially since guardian is in a good place and doesnt actually need much more work)
echo briar
I wonder how much of the fact that we only get 2 classes a book is just so they can keep them on theme, and how much is just how badly the APG playtest went
echo briar
(especially since guardian is in a good place and doesnt actually need much more...
Playtesting is showing that the guardian needs to do a lot more. Its very passive right now
I'm not sure it needs damage, but it needs something
also I really like a suggestion someone made of turning taunt into a performance skill feat, and making the guardian very good at using that feat.
I don't think thats happening, but it would be cool
surreal basin
idk, i kinda don't love having another class who has to constantly to do skill stuff, personally
echo briar
If they do it again, they might get it right
Also making it a auto scaling skill wouldn’t functionally be that difficult from the current version
Let them use str and it’s mostly the same except you get to roll
surreal basin
I don't think it being save based is a huge issue
idk, I don't think it seems TOO passive? most of the interesting gameplay comes from positioning and reaction management which seems engaging enough to me
that's just me tho
echo briar
It’s more that it doesn’t it doesn’t “help you win” but “stops you from losing”
If those distinctions make sense
surreal basin
I guess I do not see that as a design flaw
since by helping your team not lose, you are definitely still contributing - it's the same very general realm as like, a healer
It's not gonna be for everyone for sure but like
same kinda deal as knave
solar tendon
pf2e isnt a game with like. enrage timers or damage checks
surreal basin
in ICON
solar tendon
stopping the group from losing is how you win
rushing down enemies can only get you so far
like the most difficult battles in pf2e in my experience are the ones where youre just trying to keep the party up long enough
frank crystal
like the most difficult battles in pf2e in my experience are the ones where your...
Yah I will say the fights that my party went the closest to losing in are consistently the grindyer ones
turbid dagger
A character that is good without being proactive is fine I think
People play cleric!
echo briar
A character that is good without being proactive is fine I think
People play cle...
I’ve played a cleric lvls 1-10, it is not unproactive
The divine list has a lot of great stuff other than heal
Cast down alone make you one of the best controllers in the game
Just prone anyone that can’t crit succeed
turbid dagger
Heal is often the best thing you will be doing with your turn, to the point that they gave the class a mechanic so it isn't obligated to spend all its slots on heal
echo briar
I mean, not really
It’s good, don’t get me wrong, but I went throughout the day only using like 2 heals unless we were fighting undead
Like, a well placed wall of flesh is doing way more than heal
surreal basin
Ehhhhhh
Idk if I agree with that on principle personally?
A good heal turns the tide of a fight just as often I think
Anyway, not the point
The point is that i don’t really think guardian needs any kinda structural changes
Commander is also okay but needs way more clarification and some stuff to make it so that the play isn’t just spamming the same really insane tactic
It does have a specific play style but I think said play style has broad enough appeal to justify itself
echo briar
Commander needs more tactics known and prepared
young chasm
The point is that i don’t really think guardian needs any kinda structural chang...
i agree with this
young chasm
Commander needs more tactics known and prepared
they're 100% getting more on official release
echo briar
Many are niche, which is fine, but won’t get used because you can’t prepare them when they happen to be useful
young chasm
i imagine it'll be similar to how kineticist was
i mean there's a feat for that
like this is really strong all things considered
echo briar
they're 100% getting more on official release
Total? Yes. Known and prepared? Not unless that’s what the playtest shows
echo briar
like this is really strong all things considered
Those are useful, but don’t really solve the main problem
young chasm
i kinda feel like it does?
because if the issue is "i cant use x tactic when it'd be useful" this allows you to do that
unless you're actively talking about ones that you didn't prepare
in which case i see what you mean
echo briar
“Oh wow, a perfect opportunity to use passage of lines! Too bad I couldn’t foresee this happening 4 turns ago. Guess I’ll never use passage of lines”
solar thorn
The sheer "Oh no" of this roll is something to behold
echo briar
Investigators should carry a rifle for this very reason
thorny berry
coat pistol with only striking runes
light gyro
man, prismatic wall. what the fuck.
unborn rain
prismatic Wall isnt real anymore
light gyro
im running an AP where one of the monsters casts it on their first turn - its real to me damnit
surreal basin
yeah old aps still have legacy content
light gyro
oh god the monster has a +34 to athletics too. someone's gonna roll 10 saves on a round
light gyro
yeah, they've got a wizard and a bard.
NOT THAT IT MATTERS 
oh they might need it for flesh to stone tho
unborn rain
Do they have access to Cone of Cold, Gust of Wind, Disintigrate, Passwall, Magic Missile, Searing Light and Dispell magic?
Then they could get rid of it
Provided they cast them in the right order
light gyro
they have arcana out the ass so they'll probably be able to recall knowledge pretty easily. chances are they'll just fly over it. Which is when monster friend will drag them kicking and screaming into it
surreal basin
what monster is this?
light gyro
strength of thousands book 4 spoiler ||Avatar of Walkena.||
unborn rain
A book 4 monster has an 8th level spell? That's crazy
light gyro
A book 4 monster has an 8th level spell? That's crazy
It's a ||solo severe encounter, with a potential to be permanently sickened and it's nuke action removed. Which, luckily, the players have achieved.||
||coincidentally though the book also has stats for a level 25 monster as a bonus treat. The only way the players would ever see it is if they suddenly started acting incredibly evil for no reason. Fun addition though, 10/10.||
surreal basin
ohhhhh yeah
tbh i dont really see it getting to use prismatic wall since actually forcing someone through it is hard and
its not like theyre immune to it
light gyro
Yeah, my brain just goes "seven saves????? A fifth/seventh level spell seven times???????"
unborn rain
It sounds like so much admin
just like, rolling 7 saves and then applying each resault
surreal basin
back in 5e I had a villain who couldn't die and would just
always revive 1 minute after death
a challenege I threw at the party as both them and the villain trying to get through a prismatic wall. The villain just... pushed through each layer, dying and then getting back up and pushing through the next
light gyro
captain jack harkness problem solving :)
sinful gyro
Who's the mod on the Discord that we need to be concerned about, if any?
I think the mods at issue have been removed from them mod role, and the new head mod is someone I think has a good grasp on things
clever cobalt
Fair
cyan raven
i participated in a playtest session for the new classes. i think it wasn't run very well and the player testing guardian seemed very unfamiliar with the system which was rough at level 12. they did not accomplish much in the way of tanking
that test was so flat that i moved on turn 1 and then never again for the next 8 rounds
solar storm
What were you playing?
frozen hatch
General opinion but CotCT vs Hell's Rebels, which do you like more as a player and/or gm?
echo briar
I can see it. A party comp without a damage dealer (like one where the two martials are a commander and a guardian) can take forever to finish fights
I wonder how much playtesting data will be “the commander doesn’t work well with the guardian in particular” as people try to playtest both at the same time
I know my playtest couldn’t give much feedback on the recall knowledge side of the commander, as my party mates were a thaumaturge, and investigator, and an enigma bard
limber comet
LMAO
carmine egret
Realizing how much Hades 2 is gonna make me want to play a Changeling
I hope Core 2 makes Superstition Barbarian good because I really like the idea of a Changeling who rejects Mom so hard they become an angry anti-witch
echo briar
I wouldn't be surprised if core 2 doesn't have a superstition barb
they got rid of the eldritch trickster
solar storm
Isn't that kinda because eldritch trickster isn't well differentiated from rogue with wizard archetype though?
warped orbit
Trickster is gone because it was for the most part redundant to just taking a casting archetype normally
solar storm
I don't think there's as much of a "fuck magic fr fr" archetype yeah
solar tendon
the main thing eldritch trickster actually had was its debilitation feat
but
it was unexciting so
carmine egret
I wouldn't be surprised if core 2 doesn't have a superstition barb
Also plausible. Still i'm interested to see if they could fix it
warped orbit
making Superstition good would be nice, though it'd need quite a bit for that probably
surreal basin
I think they just meant the precedent is there for like
Just getting rid of a subclass
Not that superstition and magic trickster were similar
warped orbit
the issues with Superstition is mostly that it restricts your party synergies a lot, and also has a lot of very niche features
you can't benefit from any allied spells, and if you don't face enemy casters most of your stuff does nothing
carmine egret
My big brain idea is you could reinvent it to be "barbarian that interacts with spells being cast on them" rather than the more restrictive version.
warped orbit
I do think they need to make the anathema a lot less restrictive at minimum
because currently, you technically can't be in the same party as a Bard at all, if they want to use their compositions
carmine egret
Maybe you get rage buffs from having effects on you in ways that interfere with but don't completely negate support casters
solar tendon
turn any kind of buff into a damage buff cause it just makes you mad
surreal basin
Superstition is just kinda not…. Gonna gel with the game as a whole IMO. Too much of 2e is about buffing and such
carmine egret
A superstitious barbarian (though typing it out like that I wonder if they might change the name to be a little less... settler-y) would in theory get really hyped up by their culture's rituals but pissed at stuff outside that
My Cleric buddy cast Heal on me and i'm all hopped up on holy power but when a necromancer tries to drain my soul I just get angry
solar storm
Yeah that seems like a reasonable take to me
barren cipher
i think if you just removed the anathema it would be fine
it's not like they're out there doing massive numbers in exchange for never being buffed again
thorny berry
I'm a known hater of 'only works on specific enemies' mechanics and even beyond that yeah the anathema is nasty
so clearly the answer is to lean into the bit of the anathema and give them auto-scaling status bonuses to everything
solar tendon
I think there was a like vow of poverty thing in 1e
solar storm
I'm a known hater of 'only works on specific enemies' mechanics and even beyond ...
Absolute Lividity Barbarian
turbid dagger
Honestly the big thing for me is that like
The very structure of the game means they can't go all in on it
Like, they go so hard on 'no magic fuckhead' but still have to take striking runes
At which point like
Why is this class around
The fantasy of it is impossible to do in this system
You can't be an Anti Magic Guy
thorny berry
Honestly the big thing for me is that like
The very structure of the game means ...
gain inherent bonus progression whenever you spend a rune's worth of gold on Conan-style debauchery and revelry
...shit I was doing this as a bit but now I actually like it
solar storm
That'd be really funny actually yeah
solar tendon
I think there was a like vow of poverty thing in 1e
it just gave you extra ki points in exchange for not being allowed to own anything and had the exact same problem
warped orbit
it just gave you extra ki points in exchange for not being allowed to own anythi...
eww
that's even more obviously a trap than the 3.5 Vow of Poverty
turbid dagger
Damn they cut off the 'borrow' exploit I was thinking of
worthy stump
it was pretty awful, especially given how item-oriented PF1e is
rapid wagon
cool flavor
but certainly bad mechanically
fun when you can put it on an npc who's stats can be manipulated
surreal basin
Yeah I think my problem with superstition is like
It just feels like a fantasy that can’t be done super well in 2e, where magic is so common and so mechanically enforced, without a ton of caveats
limber comet
I like Barbarian+ Superstition
Where you choose two traditions to reject
Instead of magic as a whole
Like, divine and occult was the example provided
solar storm
That one kind of cracks me up because it means you've done your homework extensively to be a bigger hater
limber comet
Because those usually make undead
limber comet
That one kind of cracks me up because it means you've done your homework extensi...
I AM THE BIGGEST OP EVER
RAAAAAA
Hits you with a hammer
eager mountain
turbid dagger
Kineticist stuff getting plugged into the wider action system would be very nice
surreal basin
yeah considering that right now they don't uh
really interact with anything else
see: no archetypes really work with them
turbid dagger
I have located exactly one synergy in all my time playing and that is that Ranger Edges (whether through dual class or the Edge-sharing featchain) apply to attacks of any kind, including impulse attacks
(And my water/wood kineticist deeply enjoys medic for Doctor's Visitation + Ocean's Balm but what DOESNT work with medic really)
thorny berry
shame their action economy is so tight or they'd be good users of the few funky class dc-using archetypes
echo briar
What do you think the book the battlecry playtest is for will be about?
Unless its player core 3 it will have a theme, but "martials" isn't really something you can make a whole book about'
turbid dagger
Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and guess its gonna be the andoran-cheliax war that everyone has been hypothesizing
Or rather, thats the backdrop for a martial and military themed book, maybe with other supporting mechanics like mass combat (I seem to recall this already being a thing but viewed largely negatively?)
echo briar
But unless you're fighting ghosts, all combat is mass combat
trail nova
Cmon, Taldor with a steel chair. (If Princess Eutropia has a thousand fans, I am among them. If she has.. ect.)
(I also want my Kelesh empire AP. If it has international relations, so much the better.)
surreal basin
Honestly wouldn’t mind another unthemed collection of cool shit
Another bestiary, another player core, etc
limber comet
I mean
Hmmm
War might break out all over Golarion because of the Godsrain
The hit book
War of Mortals
surreal basin
LMAO
limber comet
But seriously, it might be a book that focuses on the mortal repercussions of the Godsrain
Cuz a lot of nations are staring at each other with hate, and the death of a god might just be the spark needed to set Golarion ablaze
surreal basin
Yeah Golarion isn’t really a setting with many like
Ongoing wars
They might be looking to change that
limber comet
It seems weird to just focus on one war so that's why I don't think it's just gonna be one
Or maybe it'll be something else completely different
surreal basin
Might just be like
Warriors handbook or smth
Secrets of Magic but for hitting guys
limber comet
Mmm yeah that seems fair
Would be nice to give non caster classes some more juice
Looks at Swash and Invest
turbid dagger
I would definitely take a Secrets Of Martials
limber comet
I mean the book just being called Battlecry! Would be aight
solar tendon
evident truths of warfare
limber comet
I hope we get some warfare lore (heh) like how Secrets of Magic had fluff
Like, give us some info on how Golarion locations organize their militaries
I was gonna say ancestry but ehh
I feel like location matters more in Golarion
Cuz not all dwarves live in mountains
And Highhelm vs. Dongun tactics are definitely super different lmao
solar tendon
that would be really fun
idk if paizo would go for it but fictional orders of battle are great
limber comet
Paizo would definitely go for that I think
I mean Secrets of Magic had information on the now defunct schools of magic
solar tendon
maybe have a bunch of enemy statblocks that are designed to synergise. more troops
surreal basin
I kinda wish troop rules got a little bit of clarification just because what a non-damaging single target effect is is like
Surprisingly hard to pin down
I like troops but they require an abnormal amount of gm judgment
solar tendon
I thought I liked troops
limber comet
I like the separation between troops and swarms
solar tendon
then I found out I was misreading the rules :(
surreal basin
Oh?
solar tendon
I thought they damage gated every time but the only damage gate is going from the top bracket to the last bracket
which means they're not actually all that resistant to single target effects
despite that being the purpose of troop defenses
surreal basin
…. I’m pretty sure they’re gated every time
solar tendon
So was I! So was I :(
solar tendon
the example is pretty explicit though
surreal basin
Yeah okay I see what you mean
solar tendon
I get that 1e swarms were kinda terrifying slash obnoxious but I don't think requiring three hits for a single target only character to deal with is a big ask
turbid dagger
So the problem is that troops have only two thresholds
If a hypothetical supertroop had like 8 then it would be more noticeable
solar tendon
yeah
so it is technically content fixable
but the troop defense rules also establish the 1/3 thresholds explicitly
turbid dagger
just double the amount of thresholds on troops and make each one half the original size
solar tendon
and you have to reimplement size changes if you use a non standard amount of thresholds
limber comet
Also the fluff regarding mind, matter, spirit, and life in SoM is super cool because it's basically a college thesis
With teacher annotations and everything
More of that please
Please give us fucked up, browning papers with sketches and shit
Howl is doing more of that so I'm like
Ehehe
clever cobalt
With the one Tian Xia God, are Aquerabus Clerics now a valid build
solar tendon
i think guns on spellcaster is rough
and warpriest is pretty melee focused i think
makes me want a gunpowder domain with a gun based focus spell
like a focus spell that's a reload compression
and there's a few gods who could claim that I think
echo briar
So people are starting to get their howl of the wild pdfs today
Apparently 3 boosts and a flaw are still very much a thing. Minotaur has +str, +con, -cha
solar tendon
ooh double physical
solar storm
I’m annoyed mine hasn’t shipped yet haha
surreal basin
bounces around the room at top speed
warped orbit
Apparently 3 boosts and a flaw are still very much a thing. Minotaur has +str, +...
damn, that's pretty good as a spread for martials
surreal basin
Wait, do you have it Emily?
ye
clever cobalt
👀
warped orbit
LARGE WITH NO CLUMSY
do they have reach or no?
I assume not, but curious
clever cobalt
Nice
surreal basin
they do not
clever cobalt
I kinda wanna ask if I can looking at it but I'm unsure if that's weird :v
surreal basin
I cannot share my copy sadly
warped orbit
so large with no reach, no downsides otherwise?
surreal basin
ye
warped orbit
nice
clever cobalt
Fair, just thought I'd ask
turbid dagger
I'm looking forward to the player facing rend but I will be a patient boy
solar storm
Large with no reach or downsides feels pretty fair
echo briar
How are the archetypes?
surreal basin
v cool
Personal fav they didn't really talk about is clawdancer, which is all about making claw attacks and rapid switching between two stances, claw stance and talon stance
warped orbit
They briefly mentioned it in one of the posts
It did seem pretty cool
Natural weapon support is nice
surreal basin
also a bunch of other cool stuff, uhhhh
were-creature archetype that's kinda build-a-thrope
solar jacinth
Are there summary cheat sheets out there for the refined version of PF2?
solar jacinth
That's the one, thank you!
echo briar
Do other ancestry have attribute flaws, or just the Minotaur?
Paizo seems to be flip floping on if they want to get rid of them or not
echo briar
Yea, but many ancestry’s only have 2 boosts
surreal basin
i think all the howl ancestries have 3 boosts and a falw
solar tendon
since you're always allowed to just take 2 free
surreal basin
flaw
echo briar
Impossible lands had no ancestry’s with flaws
surreal basin
but yeah you can always choose to take 2 free
so making every ancestry have 3 and a flaw makes sense
echo briar
i think all the howl ancestries have 3 boosts and a falw
So wow their really flip flopping hu
surreal basin
flaw
echo briar
To go from a book with 5 ancestry’s without flaws to one with 5 with them
echo briar
The weird thing is when IL came out, they said it was a trend lol
surreal basin
mayhaps they changed their minds sincce with the above mentioned optional rule 2 boost ancestries are in a weird spot
IL was before the remaster too so maybe it changed their minds or they forgor
echo briar
More unusual than a psychic rino?
solar tendon
I mean it has actual animal rhinos
solar storm
The psychic rhinos aren’t that unusual in Golarion tbf
solar tendon
they also went really ame in implementing kashrishi's weirder aspects
solar storm
Golarion the kind of place where giraffes are way weirder than unicorns :p
limber comet
The psychic rhinos are such a cool ancestry
Waiting for the group pdf drive to be updated with Howl
solar tendon
my sister ran a campaign where they were the ascendant species in an empire that was the antagonist
limber comet
I can't afford Howl physically atm but I'm definitely gonna spring for it when I can
clever cobalt
Ah
clever cobalt
I gotcha, my friends and I do similar things
echo briar
I've heard there is a winged warrior architype, but what does it actually do (other than the obvious)?
limber comet
If you have wings you get more unique attack stuff afaik
Like, special attacks and benefits that can only be used with wings
Awakened Animal is cool but Strix moment
carmine egret
What are the magic bug people like?
sinful gyro
From what I've read
They are all about individualism
They absorb magic
They have evolutions as they level up
I hear the beastskin ancestry let's you swap between a humanoid and animal form
clever cobalt
oh did they expand the Beastkin Heritage at all?
clever cobalt
Oh my order supposed to come today, but it failed due to insufficient funds :v
Thankfully i just fixed that, let's see if I can have them push it through
surreal basin
oh did they expand the Beastkin Heritage at all?
ah, no
there are built in synergies in the werecreature archetype tho
clever cobalt
Nice
surreal basin
beastkin just become better werewolves
carmine egret
giving your reporting extra credence for the Itazumi icon
surreal basin
:3
turbid dagger
If you can, can you like
Detail the Rend wild mimic gets
I get no screenshots or rules text
But on a scale of 'you just have rend' to 'its weird and can only be used on a d4 Wolverine Claw attack' where does it lie
clever cobalt
How is the wild mimic in general?
surreal basin
It is rend buuuut
instead of doing your claw damage again it just does a small amount of d6 damage
You deal 1d6
slashing damage to the target. This damage increases to 2d6
at 10th level and to 3d6 at 16th level.
not much but still probably better than making a map 8 attack and beefing it lol
Wild Mimic is rad
they can get ferocity at level 4
which is great
they can get blanka style electricity powers
eventually they have a reaction where they can cast regenerate on themselves as a reaction to hitting 0
worthy stump
whew. those are pretty good options
surreal basin
oh they can also get trample
important note tho
to be able to take these feats
you have to see creatures use them first
you are a true blue mage
and that's not an access thing, thats a prequisite
worthy stump
ough, rough. wonder how they're gonna make that work for PFS, or if they'll just nix it (or the archetype) from there
turbid dagger
You deal 1d6
slashing damage to the target. This damage increases to 2d6
at 10th...
no.............................
this is even worse than what my tempered expectations were givin me..............................................
BUT
Its still pretty neat on monk I guess
Time to find a wolverine
surreal basin
It’s not terrible tbh
Like it’s not great but it could be worth doing if someone has high AC?
oh!
wild mimic can also grab some of the animal themed monk stances
crane, gorilla, tiger, wolf, and their followups
tough perch
awakened animal can be tiny
i always wanted to play a domestic cat that's a spellcaster
turbid dagger
crane, gorilla, tiger, wolf, and their followups
Oh thats cool
Do you need to roll up on a crane, gorilla, tiger, or wolf first?
surreal basin
Nah
Those ones don’t have any prereqs
They’re just in the additional feats part of the archetype
turbid dagger
Seems very spicy then
worthy stump
yeah, i was gonna say, Monk and Flurry Ranger could benefit very well from that
clever cobalt
How're Awakened Animals? How do they look?
thorny berry
They’re just in the additional feats part of the archetype
huh that seems like it just kinda obviates martial artist
though I guess it's maybe not getting them at earlier levels
surreal basin
There are martial artist stances like dragon or drunken that are not included in wild mimic
surreal basin
How're Awakened Animals? How do they look?
they're cool
you kinda build what animal you are from a set of options
so like, theres land animals, sea animals, flying boys, as heritages
and then you pick your size
and a lot of the feats are about using your animalistic qualities
clever cobalt
mhm
surreal basin
alsoalso every ancestry in this book DOES get level 17 feats
they didn't fuck it up like in mwangi
clever cobalt
same
surreal basin
in ruby pheonix the gm and I made a level 17 fleshwarp feat lmao
clever cobalt
Fleshwarps are great but would be even better with level 17 feats
what did you come up with?
surreal basin
once per day cast of aberrant form
or
uh
a form spell
no abberrant form is real
it's that one
nothing crazy but like
yknow, good enough
turbid dagger
It'd be nice for them to get level 17s yeah
It didn't bother me hugely because they get really good pre-17 feats instead
Like uhhh
Darkvision, an imprecise sense, climb speed and swim speed
clever cobalt
a really good imprecise sense
motion sense
Awakened Animals are +Con and Wis, but -Int
turbid dagger
That's a neat statblock
Conrasu but you can bully people
We love to see an int malus
clever cobalt
int minus?
solar tendon
it's the counterpart to bonus
solar tendon
DFSDFSD
surreal basin
I KNEW WHAT THE WORD MEANT THO
echo briar
Are there any new non focus spells in HotW?
solar storm
I really like the new Beastmaster art
solar storm
Are there any new non focus spells in HotW?
yes
echo briar
I feel like you get the books early every time lol