Pathfinder

[rapid wagon]

flashforge or versatile blasts?

making useful tools at need seems fun

but dealing a non-physical damage type also seems pretty useful

[warped orbit]

which element?

[rapid wagon]

im single element metal

magnetic pinions seem fun but im ok without for now

single element metal gets access to electrical damage from versatile

[warped orbit]

electric is pretty good for getting around phys resist at least

[rapid wagon]

i otherwise only can do slashing or piercing

yeah

thats my htough

thought

[warped orbit]

still gets caught by skeleton resists, but still useful

[rapid wagon]

though also recently a fighter lost their shield to damage

and i thought itd be cool to flashforge them a new, shitty one, for the fight

but being able to do my damage might be more important for consistency

[warped orbit]

which of your 1st level Impulses do you have already?
I assume Carapace and Shardstrike?

[rapid wagon]

yeah those are the two i went with

[warped orbit]

I'd probably say go Versatile then

do you have Weapon Infusion already?
If not, that's also an option, but depends on how good your Str is

[rapid wagon]

no weapon infusion

currently

[turbid dagger]

You need a free hand to treat wounds, right?

And/Or Battle Medicine

[rapid wagon]

uhh probably so? but as a kineticist i pretty much always do

[turbid dagger]

Oh that was not in relation to your stuff
I was asking for a character I'm building 😅

[rapid wagon]

ohjhh my b

[warped orbit]

yes, a free hand and wearing your Healer's Tools

[turbid dagger]

So probably not a good idea for barbarians outside of Animal, shame
Iterating upon my Fleshwarp Eldritch Anatomist Spirit Barb

[surreal basin]

Man wearing tools is one of those like

Weird vestigial limbs

[craggy thunder]

I have just said I think the greatest self own I’ve ever said

And called my character ‘dark academia crow Sasuke’

[true delta]

https://clipground.com/images/emo-png-10.jpg

[rustic cape]

Why would you do this to yourself

That’s so mean

XD

[craggy thunder]

It do be mean

It's also mean to her but like

I did make her who she is lmao

[turbid dagger]

I've come up with a good backstory for an AV phoenix sorc, I'm so excited

[craggy thunder]

Nicenice

have fun

[turbid dagger]

I really love 'healer With A Gun' as a niche in games so a bloodline all about that greatly appeals

[solar tendon]

oh???

[barren cipher]

phoenix bloodline is for when you’re an ai programmed to optimise healing

[dark fjord]

sincerely hoping that the remastered chirurgeon heals with a gun hehe

[turbid dagger]

Its got the primal list, so Heal with a bunch of blasts, its Blood Magic effect is temp HP on a target affected or extra fire damage on a target affected, and its initial Focus Spell is burning hands but it does less damage BUT allies you catch inside get healed instead

So if your in a tight dungeon knife fight you can just nuke the room without burning your pals

[solar tendon]

nice!

gun here being a metaphor for the fire damage

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I just mean 'healer that can do damage'
Combat Medic

[solar tendon]

yeah it's cool

like how in dark souls std miracles are quite heal and support things but you can also just throw out a lightning spear

[turbid dagger]

I get very sad when I am forced to just
Be a healbot
I need to be able to do more than make folks not fall over
But I'll be happy as the healer with this I think
And yes I love miracles for the same reason

[solar tendon]

our warpriest used restorative strike for the first time today

it was pretty cool

not super eventful but yeah

we finished the first book of outlaws today! we did it a bit out of order so we beat the 'final boss' a session or so ago

but we beat up a ||giant cobra today to assert our dominance over the powderkeg punks||

and my construct rolled two nat 20s beating it up

while I was lowkey dying from ||its venom||

[turbid dagger]

How is construct inventor by the by? Is the construct like
Animal companion strong, or summoner eidolon strong

[solar tendon]

uh

[turbid dagger]

I've always had trouble like
Envisioning that subclass in play cuz I don't know how impactful the robot is

[clever cobalt]

It's strong from what I heard, but I dunno how those two play

[silver geyser]

Animal Companion for the most part.

[solar tendon]

don't really have the experience to answer in that but it's Good

[silver geyser]

Except way easier to heal.

Rapid Repair is nuts.

[solar tendon]

haphazard repair with expert healing and crafter's eyepiece makes battle medicine look weak as well haha

and it's at least once per 'rest' instead of once per day

[turbid dagger]

Sorry 😅
Good to hear its good though

[solar tendon]

I think compared to an animal companion you definitely lose out on customisability I feel

kinda ironically

just cause there's so many animals and then at later levels specialisations whereas construct modifications are quite focused?

but not to a problematic level

[silver geyser]

Correct.

[solar tendon]

now at level 4 it is super versatile though. it's good at stealth, athletics, and acrobatics for no additional investment or specialisation

[silver geyser]

Also, since Construct companions are specifically healed off of Repair, as you go up in levels you can get them back on their feet fast

[solar tendon]

like not "expert player skill" good but equal to our generally good skills easily

construct immunities have come up a lot as well

a lot of mental or poison effects

[silver geyser]

Oh yeah, Construct immunities are great.

[solar tendon]

construct inventor is basically doing what precision ranger does

[silver geyser]

Like being flat out immune to necromancy period.

[solar tendon]

your ideal turn is two full attack bonus attacks with a chonky bonus

overdrive itself is basically (rn at least) precision equivalent except sometimes it's fixed slightly below average and sometimes its fixed slightly above average

but fixed damage just feels good in general I think

[silver geyser]

Level 15 giving you your legendary crafting means with Quick Repair means you could easily drop a single action 25 healing every turn on your construct if you ride it/use it as a mech.

[solar tendon]

although I just realised repair requires two hands which is something

but like, it'd be worth

honestly I think the main struggle I've had with inventor is I still don't know what my overdrive looks like narratively haha

that and it felt really bad being a better gunner than the gunslinger but that's not an inventor problem necessarily

[silver geyser]

My biggest problem as well.

The overdrive one.

[solar tendon]

cause my inventor vibe just isn't like. covered in inventions

[silver geyser]

Gadgets are a blessing.

[solar tendon]

I've got my big one and my character is mostly just trying to look stylish

and it's kinda weird cause overdrive is just like uhhhh invention! do better! also my gun is crazy strong now!

[silver geyser]

But yeah, so long as your construct doesn't die die, it just is super easy to bring back up to full.

[solar tendon]

pretty sure construct companions do get dying though

[silver geyser]

They do.

They can die, and you need 24 hours to replace them.

[solar tendon]

was gonna say something about healing and waking up but I was thinking of other games/editions

cause you don't need magical healing to auto-wake in pf2e

just anything other than natural healing

looking back on other inventor concepts I think whether overdrive will be a problem is like 50/50 for me haha

I think armour inventor it's probably the most evocative

cause you've got some kinda power armour or whatever

I really like the sound of the inventors+ overdrive replacers, they add a lot more specfic flavour to overdrive and cool effects

[turbid dagger]

I like the idea of weapon inventor but hmmmmmmmm
I struggle to think of ways to leverage Innovations such that you are competing on the power curve
But Complex Simplicity dagger with d6 agile finesse, a throw range, and Versatile for all physical damage types is sure funny

[solar tendon]

my favourite weapon inventor concept is basically just an archer who's invented the compound bow

[turbid dagger]

Armor inventor is def the subclass I see as most likely to like
Be on equal footing with a barbarian or fighter or whatever

[silver geyser]

The nice thing about weapon inventor is being able to Explode/electrocute people as well. Just add in the save stuff, watch your DPR benefit.

[turbid dagger]

Oh Jezail weapon inventor that Megaton Strikes all the time is also fun

[solar tendon]

explode is awesome but often I'm not positioned to use it

but it's saved us every time we get attacked by a swarm

[turbid dagger]

I can't believe I forgot about megaton strike and its stuff with ranged weapons

[silver geyser]

I like having Tamper and Megavolt as well.

Tamper is just hilarious against anyone with weapons.

Or armor.

[solar tendon]

my feats are haphazard repair/collapse contruct/advanced companion

so far

collapse construct is quite fun other than just being somewhat necessary sometimes

like just leave a suitcase somewhere and have it be pre-positioned for combat or whatever

I think mostly the fact that it only takes 1 action is what makes it so juiced? and the fact the construct and do it itself on command

[silver geyser]

It is a nice one.

[solar tendon]

oh so one thing is

I was originally gonna go folklorist and basically not plan to attack with my inventor all that much? I was worried how it would work out

but I think while it would definitely have been a like 'weaker' build so far at least I think it would've done just fine

[silver geyser]

I didn't need to often attack as Flopsies.

Which left me open to provided flanking and the like.

[solar tendon]

it might've been a problem at higher levels I guess but OoA only goes to 10 ish anyway

honestly when we start back up for book 2 I might see about trying out the original build for a session or two

I don't hate shooting a bit though

playing an ap with 3 players by starting at level 2 is also going fine so far

doesn't really feel any different in difficulty (which makes sense, since that is intention of the cr system)

[eager mountain]

Idk

[echo briar]

Do you think any of the remaining PF1 classes have a shot of coming back as full classes?

I'm torn on if the shifter should be its own thing or not

[solar tendon]

what's left

hunter shaman

slayer

ninja and samurai are not gonna be things

[warped orbit]

Slayer is definitely not coming back
same with Hunter

[solar tendon]

mm

brawlerrr

[echo briar]

all three of those have been adapted TBH. hunter and slayer are just the ranger, and animist is the shaman

[solar tendon]

actually kinda feels like there's brawler dna in the commander if 'prepared martial' is anything to go by

[warped orbit]

Brawler
"1a to swap all your class feats" 😛

[echo briar]

Ninja and samurai could be interesting architypes, but I at least would want different names

[solar tendon]

completely drawing a blank on stuff lol

[echo briar]

also the brawler was just folded into the monk

[solar tendon]

I guess skald

could be a thing

as bard CA or something

[warped orbit]

or a Barb CA

[echo briar]

skald could work as a class, but it could also work as a class architype.

[solar tendon]

I guess Inquisitor is the big one

[warped orbit]

but I think Barbarian also already has a shared Rage feat line

[solar tendon]

but I think that's just been filtered into various upcoming options and is unlikely to return as its own thing

[echo briar]

Mesmerist has some good DNA for a class, but the name and some of the themes would need to be broadened.

[solar tendon]

or even as a lore thing maybe

[warped orbit]

I have a feeling some of that is gonna get pulled into Avenger

[solar tendon]

just in terms of relgious following being less rigidly defined by classes for one

mm probably

[warped orbit]

since it's a Rogue archetype

[solar tendon]

inqusitor is basically pf1es version of 4e's avenger

[warped orbit]

very curious how that Cleric archetype is gonna work out

I believe they already confirmed it makes them lose Font

wonder if they're gonna get even more restricted on spellcasting after that
maybe wavecasting but full martial progression?

[solar tendon]

avenger is likely also to include any remaining slayer juice by way of deliverer

I just want self buffing magus equivalent haha

[turbid dagger]

Brawler would be cool as a monk or fighter class Archetype
But also I think it's actual pf1e gimmick has a 0% chance of ever actually coming to pf2

It'd have to do something else

[solar tendon]

all the occult adventures stuff got blended up basically into various concepts

like phantom summoners and thaumaturges

[warped orbit]

I'm pretty sure Battle Harbinger will be that, at least theoretically

[solar tendon]

chances are good probably yeah

but yeah I think at this point there aren't any classes left

[echo briar]

shifter

[solar tendon]

that haven't had in some way their influence on 2e

[echo briar]

thats the only thing I can see being its own class

[solar tendon]

I mean I feel like shifter kinda influenced how battle forms work as a whole

and why wild shape has a somewhat weird martial synergy

[tough perch]

shifter might also appear as druid's version of battle harbinger

i think there's space for an inquisitor, but i'm not sure paizo wants to do one

but i'm glad they started making more class archetypes

maybe we'll get eldritch scion yet

[clever cobalt]

I'm salty

[solar thorn]

If anyone has played abomination vaults to completion, does it get easier or harder as the party descends? My party is on floor 5 and they're starting to struggle, death is a very real possibility in even medium fights.

[clever cobalt]

Tian Xia hasn't been shipped yet and Paizo is going on a break from Shipping for a week starting tomorrow

I wish I could get Tian Xia

How is the book anyways

Is it good?

[warped orbit]

hmm
It kinda varies

there are a lot of tough fights later too
I still find it a little easier later, just because you have more tools

though if they are really struggling that hard on medium fights it might be something a change in tactics could also help with

[solar thorn]

They have no way to grapple or intimidate and they're made of glass, as the general issues.

[warped orbit]

what's the party comp?

[clever cobalt]

Anyone here got Tian Xia?

[solar thorn]

Ranger with beast, magus, thamaturge, war priest cleric

[warped orbit]

Huh
That seems like a pretty good lineup to me
Lot of frontline, the Cleric has plenty of healing

Is there something they are struggling with especially?

[solar thorn]

It feels like they get nuked pretty hard compared to their dps - may be bad stat allocation though, the war priest in particular can't hit anything

[silver geyser]

We've got a party with a Magus and a Thaumaturge, and they're having problems with DPR?

[solar thorn]

I think it's more an issue with all the incorporal enemies too

Cause that sets the Rangers damage to zero, and the others get the huge resistance issues

They did find the ||disrupting weapons blueprint on floor 3|| but haven't used it

[barren cipher]

assuming they're keeping up with runes and doing buffs and stuff i can't think of a good reason why they'd struggle

[warped orbit]

ah, yeah incorporeal is gonna be rough for the Ranger
ghost touch runes can mitigate it a little at least

[barren cipher]

ghost touch runes are 75g

[warped orbit]

ghost touch is a pretty generally sound investment in AV

[warped orbit]

level 5 is also a bit of a rough spot for casters accuracy wise

since they don't get the prof boost on casting until level 7
and their Strikes will be behind by a lot as well

[solar thorn]

Ok, I'll suggest the rune and see if the priest improves next level (they are 6)

[barren cipher]

it's worth checking their sheets to make sure they aren't missing something too

maybe the war priest can't roll above 6, maybe they forgot to add their level

[warped orbit]

Hunted Shot also combines damage for resistance purposes, so if the Ranger is using that it can also help punch through resistance if they get a double hit

Thaum and Magus both do a lot of extra damage so they should be fine generally
The Thaum's Exploit can counteract the resistance

[limber comet]

Eldritch Scion is a magus right

I have a homebrew supplement for that

[limber comet]

Also eldritch scion could very well be

In WoI

[young chasm]

late to the convo but man i hope inquisitor gets a 2e conversion

[limber comet]

That's probably what avenger is

Considering the irl baggage of inquisitors

Same reason why Shaman wasn't used for animist lol

Also samurai and ninja probably aren't coming back either

Due to their 1e versions being romanticized versions of a concept

Considering irl samurai were very different to what 1e portrays them as

And the term ninja is so broad that it could mean anything

[young chasm]

avenger's being relegated to an archetype right

[warped orbit]

yeah

[young chasm]

i've always found that archetypes can be hit or miss

hopefully it's good

[limber comet]

A class archetype specifically

[unborn rain]

Samurai and Ninja are already largely done by fighter and rogue

And that includes in 1e imo

I know they were separate classes but like, Samurai was pretty much just a big fighter archetype

[limber comet]

Pretty much yea

[barren cipher]

i don't think you really need slayer any more either

[limber comet]

I mean just make into an archetype or something

I want more unique stuff

Like Exemplar, give me more of that

[trail nova]

I think there is a bit of a niche of challenge stuff, but Guardian might fix that.

[limber comet]

I'm really curious about Guardian

[warped orbit]

yeah I assume Guardian will be more of a Marking and taunting defender

instead of damage reduction like Champ

[limber comet]

I mean we were in a bit of a "normal" martial drought

The last "normal" martial wassss

Gunslinger

[surreal basin]

I mean imo there’s like

Only so much you can do with it

And it’s pretty subjective

Like thaum isn’t super different from like

Ranger

[echo briar]

TBF, that was two books ago.

Oops, sorry for the ping

[limber comet]

Nah you can ping me

No worries

[echo briar]

The last primal or arcane caster was the summoner

And the last prepared full caster was the witch

Martials are getting an appropriate amount of attention

[limber comet]

Well good thing Animist exists

It's both a prepared and spontaneous caster

[clever cobalt]

Anyone have any guesses for who the Iconics are gonna be for Commander and Guardian?

I think a Hobgoblin Commander could be neat

[light gyro]

Commander iconic art drops and it's Generic Hero-Man... but the actual commander is the sprite on his shoulder

[young chasm]

today during session

[solar tendon]

deserved

[worthy stump]

chain lightning is so good. every time i've seen it used it generates some insane value, haha

[echo briar]

One will be a leshy or an orc. Both are now core ancestries, but non have iconics. As the inventor is a half orc, I'm leaning towards leshy

I think a pine or root leshy guardian would be cool. Give us more examples of intimidating leshys

diversify there image a bit

[warped orbit]

one of them will be a leshy

[limber comet]

Pine Leshies are cool

[limber comet]

Also this was teased but not confirmed

Also I really want another apg ancestry to get featured in the new playtest

Like how Korakai got put in as an Oracle

[turbid dagger]

I would very much like it if the Commander was a Hobgoblin
I suspect it won't be! But

[limber comet]

I want

A Kholo

[solar thorn]

hm, wonder how long my players will try and figure out the way past the ||blade hallway on level 5 of abomination vaults||
We're at 20 minutes

[warped orbit]

I think we somehow completely missed that one

must've just pathed around it somehow

[solar thorn]

ok they choose to go to the arena instead
Pray for them

[warped orbit]

hope they don't get into trouble with the ||Shanrigol|| 😛

[solar thorn]

they did

[warped orbit]

good luck

we kinda overprepared for that fight on our end

[solar thorn]

They're level 6 and had time to prepare buffs, but goddamn this thing is scary

what the fuck they're doing it

ok the issue i had earlier may be that they weren't preparing for fights enough because they ate this dude

[warped orbit]

||it does have a decent vitality weakness, so that's something to exploit||

[solar thorn]

yeah they exploited that hard

[warped orbit]

yeah a Disrupting Weapons can go a long way there

though the Thaum can also do it anyway I suppose

[true delta]

Any strong opinions on regular vs pocket editions of PF2 books?

[light gyro]

how often are folks challenging the sun that you'd have to put it at the front of your anathema list

[limber comet]

You'd be surprised

[frozen hatch]

Time for another ffd20 question: what are you guys' thoughts on taking the illusionist base class vs this archetype for said class?

https://www.finalfantasyd20.com/classes/base-classes/illusionist/
https://www.finalfantasyd20.com/classes/base-classes/illusionist/archetypes/phantom-blade/

[lost bluff]

There's an FFd20?

[frozen hatch]

Yep a final fantasy d20

Built off of pathfinder 1e

[lost bluff]

Neato

[clever cobalt]

I kinda wish I was in a 1-10 AP, purely because of Curtain Call

Also thinking of how to make Jagganoth as an Exemplar

Though I'm also debating how to make a human peasant loser into an Exemplar

[echo briar]

Someone else with the same name does heroic things, but enough people mistake the two of them that the peasant starts getting some powers from their belief

[solar tendon]

what level is this urchin

cause that's a level 15 ability sdhfgshjfsj

[warped orbit]

-1 😛

[solar tendon]

some god of urchins smiling on them

[warped orbit]

+7 Thievery

[silver geyser]

Gm stealing pants

[barren cipher]

did you know? champions have some of the worst perception and most expensive armour in the game

[unborn rain]

Urchins gotta make a living somehow

Also extremely funny to imagine a character who grew up as an urchin then becomes a level 1 rogue PC and loses their ability to be good at stealing

[echo briar]

Its most likely a typo, as thats just the pickpocket feat, but the the word "can't" replaced with the word "can"

[turbid dagger]

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=731885

How does this look for a Sorceror? Mostly looking at the spell list
Never really sure about spells

[surreal basin]

Well I’d look at it but it hates my phone resolution

[unborn rain]

If your dex is maxed, why the armour training?

[barren cipher]

it's +1 ac for a bit

still +1 at 10th even

[unborn rain]

I personally don't rate cantrip expansion very highly, you're spending a 4th level feat for 2 cantrips. You could take enhanced familiar, which lets you get 2 extra abilitys one of which you could spend on a cantrip and the other you could spend on something like an extra 2nd level spell slot.

Sorceror doesnt really get great option though I suppose

This is assuming, it's like you're starting at level 10 rather than this being a build you're going for from level 1

[barren cipher]

you can just get a couple of spellhearts and call it a day

[unborn rain]

If it's from level 1 or just below 9 I guess, You could get the psychic dedication a lot earlier

like Psychic dedication gives you extra cantrips which are just better than your normal ones

[warped orbit]

well you can only really use 1-2 spellhearts at a time, but yeah

[unborn rain]

I mean, that's how many cantrips you get from expansion so it's like perfectly balanced

[barren cipher]

primal's a pretty honest and straightforward list

[clever cobalt]

Eat the Reich but you play Knights of Lastwall in Geb

[turbid dagger]

This is abomination vaults
Stopped at 10 cuz I won't go further

[clever cobalt]

Which I guess is actually inverse but still

[barren cipher]

the calculations are a bit different then

[turbid dagger]

I did not realize there was a cantrip familiar ability tho, deffo taking that

[unborn rain]

okay then the armour training makes a lot of sense then. I highly unreccomend cantrip expansion, it's basically never the best option available to you

[turbid dagger]

I ust have it set to 10 so you could see the spells I planned to take at each rank

If I'm being honest Ignition is mostly a flavor pick
It just feels odd to take a phoenix sorceror and not have a fire cantrip

But needle darts lets me do silver and cold iron damage and also is narrowly better than ranged ignition raw damage wise

[barren cipher]

i think having a wide range of damage cantrips is a good idea anyway

even if on paper you "only cast electric arc"

[unborn rain]

A wide range of damage is good but also, they're still cantrips

[barren cipher]

dispel magic is a good spell and if nobody else has it covered you should cover it

[turbid dagger]

Mannnnn
Counteract checks 🤢
I guess....................

[barren cipher]

i'm not sure if positive attunement is good in a world where you can just cast rank 3 heal

[turbid dagger]

I swapped it out for Haste, and replaced Bloodspray Curse with Dispel Magic cuz I didn't have a signature on rank 4
So it'll signature back into the 2nd level and 3rd level slots
Will I need dispel magic before level 7? Maybe
But I really don't want to use slots on something so boring so if that happens I'll simply suffer

[barren cipher]

you can always retrain anyway

[fossil temple]

Would a Dex Champion work?

Pseudoregalia made me think of an Acrobat Dex Champion

[warped orbit]

it works

but they also don't really benefit that much from it IMO

[fossil temple]

It work or it works as screaming in a mug will eventually heat it?

oh, so the latter

[warped orbit]

I mean you'll be okay

but in melee being Dex doesn't have that many upsides if you don't have to do it

[fossil temple]

oh so melee Dex is not that good? huh

I never really tried so

[warped orbit]

it still works, but you're generally limited to smaller die sizes, and your lower Str means less extra damage

and with access to heavy armor you can very easily not need Dex

stuff like Swash or Rogue is both limited to finesse via their class features, and also only has light armor prof

[fossil temple]

So how Swash does big damage?

[warped orbit]

Swash has Panache and finishers

[barren cipher]

bleeding finisher basically

[warped orbit]

Rogue has Sneak Attack

[fossil temple]

Thank

[light gyro]

xd6 scaling persistent bleed damage YIPPEE

[barren cipher]

dex primary is ok if you get some real benefit from it - doing a thrown build with dex primary might be worth it, the ability to keep away and still do damage should compensate for the assorted downsides

if you have access to heavy armour though it's pretty difficult to spend your stat increases on dex when you could just be in full plate and just pretend you have +3 dex a lot of the time

[true delta]

Is there going to be a remastered GM screen, btw?

[turbid dagger]

I am an eternal hypeman for bow champ but if you are doing melee I am not sure if there is much reason for dex, no

[barren cipher]

i can't get into bow champ honestly

you're just too close all the time

[turbid dagger]

I did Dinner at Lionlodge with custom characters recently and, not to to toot my own horn too much, but my Hornbow paladin champ of Skode was the MVP damage wise
You throw out so many attacks that deadly procs a fair bit

[fossil temple]

Bow is fun but saying 'lol' and 'lmao' face to face is fun

[turbid dagger]

I also used uhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Splint mail with armored skirt for dex heavy armor

Well, 'dex'

Still need a fair bit of str but god gave me propulsive for a reason

[solar tendon]

dex means you don't need sentinel

if you want a better reflex than +3

[barren cipher]

i mean yeah

but it ain't cheap

you can have a wisdom save instead, for example

[solar tendon]

actually didn't even realise champ could key dex haha

but armored skirt splint mail means you go s14

reducing your strength investment means you can put that into wis

or con

or I guess not if you would normally have zero dex lol

idk

[fossil temple]

dex champ sounds weird now

[barren cipher]

getting tripped all the time sucks but hey, at least they're tripping you and not someone else

(the calculation is slightly different for fighters)

[fossil temple]

Holy swash then

[thorny berry]

I think the one upside of dex champ is ranged reprisal

but even then that's only 15 feet

and if you want to react at 15 feet you can just... pick either of the other two good causes

[fossil temple]

A ranged Holy Weapon ? There are favored god weapons that are ranged

[surreal basin]

For what it’s worth on counteracting

Counteracting is really really good against lower level spells

Where you can fail the check and it doesn’t matter

There’s some high impact low level spells that can change the face of a combat

See: almost every monster prepares or knows haste at rank 3

If it knows it

And getting rid of that quicken on a creature higher level than you is great value

This is in reference to someone clowning on counteract checks somewhere above

[warped orbit]

you can also take reach

[turbid dagger]

Yeah polearms let you get essentially the same reach as bow paladin
BUT
The advantage I found is that you can post up with the team and take potshots and enemies have to come to you and deal with your reactions

[carmine egret]

I'm gonna try and pitch the Beginner Box adventure but I forget what the inciting incident is, or rather who's getting their basement raided

[solar tendon]

I don't know if I remember there being one

[warped orbit]

there isn't much of an incident

fish keeps getting stolen from the basement of a fishery in Otari, and they want you to check it out

[carmine egret]

Fishery, that's it

Danke

[carmine egret]

And what's the current situation with AoN being unreliable?

[solar storm]

I think AoN is reliable again

It took them a long time to get stuff set up for the remaster but it’s done

[carmine egret]

Ah okay

[warped orbit]

the Remaster is up now, yeah

there's a few data entry errors still I think, but overall its all there

[fossil temple]

A lot of stuff is still legacy, like most, if not all, archetypes

[warped orbit]

anything that didn't get re-released explicitly is listed as legacy

[surreal basin]

I still wouldn’t rely on it entirely

A bunch of tags are broken atm

[light gyro]

does aon have an issues page? or somewhere to report issues at least?

oh its a DISCORD

[barren cipher]

yeah it's a little rough at the moment

for those pages where you are expecting, like, spell lists or something and 99% of them seem to be missing, you have to go to the bottom and click the 'show all' button

[surreal basin]

And tags are usually messed up

[turbid dagger]

....Huh
If you take dedication psychic and pick oscillating wave you don't inherit the weird damage type switching mechanic
So my phoenix sorc can just take Big Ignition

[echo briar]

So, the PF2 discord just announced (or at least overtly hinted) that starfinder will have a beginners box by this time next year

[thorny berry]

speaking of psychic dedications, I was kinda thinking that tangible dream psychic might be a decent shot for life oracle

for the amped shield, basically, with oracle's focus point situation presently being in a weird spot

[echo briar]

This is the exact image they used

[sudden lark]

Hi there, possibly joining a game here. Is Gunslinger w/ Fighter dedication at starting level 3 good?

[echo briar]

Wardens if wildwood player guide is out https://downloads.paizo.com/WardensofWildwood_PlayersGuide.pdf

[turbid dagger]

Very likely! What are you trying to get out of Fighter?

[sudden lark]

...oh. I just wanted sword weapon proficiencies but Gunslinger already gets those.

What can I get out of a Fighter dedication?

[barren cipher]

hp, point blank stance if you care about that

you may get more mileage out of other things though, do you want to be better at shooting people or do you want to branch out a bit

also do you have free archetype or are you thinking of paying class feats for it?

[sudden lark]

I do not have free archetypes. I have to pay the class feats.

[solar tendon]

a lot of the time with fighter theres another archetype with a better dedication

[barren cipher]

there are good level 2 feats for gunslinger iirc

[solar tendon]

altho archer which gets all the ranged feats isnt one of them really

[barren cipher]

oh, there's fake out

[solar tendon]

this would be a drifter slinger?

[sudden lark]

Would a Rogue dedication be better?

[warped orbit]

question is mostly what you're looking for out a dedication over class feats

[novel merlin]

TBH I rarely find a reason to take an archetype if not using free archetype

[sudden lark]

Yeah might just go straight Gunslinger

Also I learned that I'm partying with two Chrono Trigger references 💀

[solar tendon]

one thing fighter does is get reactive strike at level 4

which is not only normally earlier than other classes, but gunslinger doesnt get that at all

[novel merlin]

Not super useful for a gunslinger tbh

[barren cipher]

most martials have good feats, i generally only pay class feats for archetypes if i'm a spellcaster, a champion, or want like dual weapon warrior or something else super specific

[solar tendon]

but youre effectively paying two feats for that. and not starting with it

[echo briar]

Get the chronoskimmer dedication then, fire your gun with a chrono trigger

[silver geyser]

Bang bang bang, pull my chrono trigger

[warped orbit]

unless you're Drifter, and even then tbh, think you are better off using Fake Out over most other reactions

[echo briar]

So according to Michael Sayre, the commander is not "based around a sublass structure". This probably means it won't have options for other KSA, but definitely means the subclasses are going to be less prominent than say the champion.

[tough perch]

that sounds like its more akin to fighter and monk, which change a lot based on which feats you pick but have no actual subclasses

[echo briar]

It could be like ranger which have them, but are not based on them

[warped orbit]

Fighter like seems likely

especially with them being "prepared" somehow

[echo briar]

I could also see thaumaturge or exemplar influences, where you have multiple minor subclasses

[limber comet]

So commander won't be subclass based afawk

What about Guardian then

[eager mountain]

sweet

[craggy thunder]

Help I saw clips of Burn the Witch and I wanna change my character in our supernatural investigation game to a witch like in the movie lol

https://tenor.com/view/burn-the-witch-btw-burnthewitch-titekubo-tite-kubo-gif-5885314833165761943

specifically this guy

Because god damn I am taken by the idea of spraypainting your spell sigils

[surreal basin]

alright my players did some investigation and killed a heart spider

[craggy thunder]

Nice

[limber comet]

Was reading the comments below the Godsrain event stream, and damn. "Matt Colville literally said that 100+ page adventures suck! Wtf Paizo? You're trying to kill the hobby!"

That's crazy bro

Also saw someone saying that "every player wants to become a deity, give us rules for" unironically and I just deflated

[eager mountain]

For once I disagree with Matt

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/whet-what-ew-can-you-not-stop-gif-9908266

Ok, but the difference between a pc and a diety is that gods don’t have stats in payhfinder

[limber comet]

It's why I'm hesitant about mythic levels but I trust Paizo to cook

[carmine egret]

This may be more of a Foundry question than a Pathfinder one, but: if I wanted to run Beginner Box on Foundry with the potential to segue into Abomination Vaults, could I have both modules within the same Foundry "world"?

[light gyro]

yeah, they're just like any other *Foundry module

similarly to how adventure path modules are broken up into their respective books

[sinful gyro]

It's not that hard to recreate folks characters if you need to as well

[light gyro]

speaking of, i co-own a foundry server with four other people and we all used the same world instance to run 5e games. would NOT recommend, that shit chugs. one world per campaign.

[carmine egret]

Goddamn

[carmine egret]

Also, remind me, which PF wiki is the good one?

[fossil temple]

https://2e.aonprd.com/

[unborn rain]

AoN is good for getting all the in game info

but the "pathfinder wiki" might be more useful if you're looking for lore

[fossil temple]

Agreed

Like how the undead goddess became a thing because she partied so hard she dodged the death moon and pharasma

[carmine egret]

Gotcha, I knew there was that and... Golaripedia I think?

[unborn rain]

That might a fandom one maybe

[solar tendon]

seems to be

[worthy stump]

That’s not even what Matt said, he was just saying that huge, long adventures shouldn’t be the norm and that folks should try more episodic stuff instead

[clever cobalt]

Youtube Commenters are not to be trustsd

[worthy stump]

Reading comprehension devil strikes again…

[echo briar]

What do you mean I piss on the poor?

[solar storm]

Hey hypothetical every player name 1 elf game where you can become a god and not need to replace your character sheet with a complex linked excel sheet or 3

[trail nova]

Please, it already was a set of linked excel sheets.

[craggy thunder]

Would it be too on the nose to give a duskwalker tengu a nosoi mask

[unborn rain]

No that'd be awesome and cool

Also

Too on the beak 🥁

[craggy thunder]

har har

[limber comet]

Really? Damn lmao

[turbid dagger]

I am a primarily oneshot based DM myself
When I run campaigns its usually prewritten stuff

[frank crystal]

I run a lot of one shots but that’s just because I have a lot of friends who want to play and don’t have consistent enough schedule to do these longer campaigns with a lot

[carmine egret]

So when an Ancestry Weapon Familiarity feat gives access to uncommon weapons with the ancestry tag, does that mean, for example, an orc can justify buying a barricade buster in town?

[warped orbit]

yes

if you have access, it becomes common to you

[turbid dagger]

Yes
Don't ask me how
He knows the secret orc gunsmith
But yes

[frank crystal]

All orcs inherently know how to make automatic weapons

[turbid dagger]

This fucker just shows up

[frank crystal]

Deep in their DNA

[frank crystal]

Honestly I love having RE4 merchant style NPCs in wilderness or outlaw campaigns

Just a weirdo who occasionally shows up and suddenly the PCs can buy whatever they need

[carmine egret]

I personally have been toying with the idea of having sold an heirloom weapon to cover expenses and buying it back once you have the money

[carmine egret]

Honestly I appreciate that kind of straightforwardness

[warped orbit]

that's the use of access, it means you don't need GM approval like uncommon stuff normally does

[fossil temple]

it's thee Waaagh energy

[carmine egret]

So do we have the deets on that new Magus stuff yet?

[warped orbit]

not yet

[carmine egret]

I was about to clarify I meant from the Tian Xia book but I was going to abbreviate it to TX

[warped orbit]

it comes out tomorrow I think?

[carmine egret]

And then I realized that means Texas

Looking forward! Seems like it's loaded with cool stuff

Oh, unrelated: if I was running a Certain Module with a green wyrmling in it, do you think it would be easy enough to convert or just fluff as the new horn dragon?

[turbid dagger]

AFAIK the horned dragon is literally just a green dragon, flavor wise and mechanically, except its called that and has a horn charge ability now
So yes

Like, its design didn't even change

Its just instead of 'green dragon with a horn' its 'horn dragon that is green'

[light gyro]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690599146230382592/1199623745153814568/FxvB9j78.gif

[carmine egret]

Great lol

Clearly a wyrmling wouldn't have a developed horn for charging with anyway

[surreal basin]

Maybe I made a mistake tying colored dragons into my setting :3

[craggy thunder]

our thaumaturge is a chelaxian man his player's compared to the merchant like four times

are there any animal companions that would be considered fitting for a ghost hunter character?

[turbid dagger]

Bird (fluffed as raven)
Dog (reacts to ghosts)
Ghost animal lmao

[craggy thunder]

Also I forgot duskwalkers apparently

spontaneously appear

as young children

[surreal basin]

wild

you could probbaly ignore that if you wanted for your character

considering that... uh.... i think most duskwalkers would probably not survive childhood if they were just dropped into the woods lmao

[craggy thunder]

They appear in cemeteries or temples, so areas where a person is likely to show up eventually

And I have an idea where that actually would work in favor of my character's writing

She's found by a lord's retainer, a lord who wants an heir but he and his wife failed to create any children before she died

So he adopts her, and soon after sends her off to get an education, thinking he's instilled enough loyalty in her that she would get that education and return

She has instead decided 'nah'

and fucked off from college to learn Aldori fencing before becoming a ghost hunter

Her Aldori fencing master was also her girlfriend

[turbid dagger]

I've got a Duskwalker in our Abomvaults game and yeah she just got like
Minecraft new world spawned into the middle of absalom at like 7 or what have you

[craggy thunder]

It would be a very funny conversation they had between them about their respective natures

I take it given the module your duskwalker takes her status more seriously than mine does

Cuz mine is doing the whole exorcist thing as almost a hobby

[turbid dagger]

She takes it dead seriously
Considering her past self ||was killed by Belcorra Haruvex||

[craggy thunder]

Well damn lol

[carmine egret]

Follow-up to Foundry question: I realized that I'm still at version 9 and PF2 needs version 10, but there are multiple patches of version 11 available... should I just go to the latest one or would that screw up other stuff?

[solar storm]

PF2 works great with version 11 for me

[carmine egret]

Will give it a shot then!

[carmine egret]

https://gyazo.com/5c3986993d26993bd3459204ed4c0848 seem to have hit a snag?

It seems like it's timing out when I try to update PF2, or else it's already updated

[worthy stump]

definitely not fully updated, PF2 system on Foundry is on 5.15

might need to uninstall the system then reinstall?

[carmine egret]

that sounds like it'd do the trick

oh nvm, it's 5.15 now. either it was just delayed or it needed me to update my modules too

aw yeah I'm in baby. thank all y'all!

[clever cobalt]

Tian Xia is out btw

for non-subscribers

[sinful gyro]

ooo

[clever cobalt]

https://paizo.com/products/btq02ex6?Pathfinder-Lost-Omens-Tian-Xia-World-Guide

[sinful gyro]

Anyone here got it?

I'm not in a position to buy it atm, but I'm very interested in it's content

[surreal basin]

Although I am too sleepy to look rn

[light gyro]

Enjoying all the war of the immortals marketing but unleashing the blood horse in London might be going too far

[unborn rain]

How did they lose them, how the fuck do you lose a blood covered horse

[sinful gyro]

From the Lifeguards and Blues & Royals apparently

Basically ceremonial military stuff

[fossil temple]

Can a non-monk class use a weapon with the Monk tag?

[unborn rain]

in 2e yes, in 1e probably

[clever cobalt]

I really want Tian Xia but I can't afford it

[fossil temple]

Thank ya, becuase i sometimes just try to recreate a drip and
I was thinking if I needed to go stealth monk to do it or
rogue would be able to do it

[heavy mesa]

Yeah i’m debating whether or not i should risk the expense

[clever cobalt]

Admittedly I kinda wanna ask someone if I could borrow their copy until I can afford it myself, but that may be a bit cheap :V

[rustic cape]

I'm really curious what PC2 is gonna do about monk weapons

[echo briar]

Monk weapons exist in PC1

[thorny berry]

I'm just waiting for the magus hybrid study leaks tbh

[limber comet]

That'll be in like

A few months

[thorny berry]

oh whoops

I got the books mixed up

[turbid dagger]

Wait what?
The two new ones are in tian xia

[surreal basin]

Ye

Yeah?

Not this book

The tian Zia character guide

This is the world guide

[turbid dagger]

Huh, really?
I'm surprised there's two seperate ones
I figured they'd do a LO Impossible Lands and say 'setting book can have little a character options, as a treat'

[surreal basin]

Nope, two separate releases

[turbid dagger]

Well drat
I was really excited to see if the hybrid study's would fit my SOG character

[solar tendon]

they wanted more lore and more options so they made two books

it's a big area

[echo briar]

yea, this book just has some pantheons, monsters, and maybe some items mechanics wise

So people have been going through the monster core, and it appears that AC is going down by a lot

[warped orbit]

huh

that's... weird

[echo briar]

by a lot I mean a lot of things are losing 1-2 ac, not that the AC changes are huge

[warped orbit]

that's still a big difference tbh

[echo briar]

but still, its like .5 ac on average

[warped orbit]

are saves also going down or just AC?

because that's just really odd

[echo briar]

theres no other defensive buffs to make up for it, just lower ac

[echo briar]

most of the time no.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs482qv?Monster-Core-Numbers-Changes#18 here are the numbers

[sinful gyro]

Fighters continue to eat good off of this

[surreal basin]

I think monsters honestly like

did have a little too high ac

in general

[warped orbit]

seems like it's mostly lower level monsters

[surreal basin]

a lot of fellas had high-extreme across the board

[sinful gyro]

Makes sense

[surreal basin]

which is a little silly lol

[turbid dagger]

I sure won't turn down more dead monsters

[echo briar]

and dragons, except green/horned which got an AC buff

[warped orbit]

weird

[turbid dagger]

they know dragons are the most likely boss monster to be employed in solo encounters

[echo briar]

why are you crossing that out? thats the most likely answer lol

bosses having too high ac has been a common complaint, and dragons have been noted as being slightly stronger than their level suggests. This solves two birds with one stone

[surreal basin]

well

most things that got an ac debuff got an hp buff

[echo briar]

no they didn't

bears and boars did, and that's mostly it

weirdly, lions lost ac, catfolk lost hp.

[barren cipher]

maybe this will make pl+3 a bit more achievable early on

[light gyro]

the graveknight champion; i cant believe they gave this dude a whole-ass spell strike and exactly one spell to use with it. and its just flame strike scorching ray. SIR. YOU ALREADY DO FIRE DAMAGE.

[light gyro]

do i need to maintain this grapple?

[surreal basin]

The armor needs to maintain the grapple

[light gyro]

but it doesnt have actions

[surreal basin]

Yeah uh

Not sure how that would work

I think it can’t maintain it

It lets go in a round

But it’s a grapple so it would still interrupt movement

So like it’s certainly not bad

It’s just not for holding someone for multiple turns

[light gyro]

yeah, that's what im thinking. this is happening literally right now so im happy with this

[surreal basin]

Incredible

Well

Actually

@light gyro grapple says they’re grappled until the end of your (the grapplers) next turn

The armor arguably never takes a turn

So RAW it grapples you until you escape

There’s definitely an argument that it ends on the graveknights turn

But like

Idk, it specifically says it’s not the GRAVEKNIGHT doing it at all

[warped orbit]

I'd still make the Graveknight spend actions to maintain the Grapple personally

and have it time out on its turn

[light gyro]

not like im low on options with this guy

[surreal basin]

That is a fair interpretation that I wouldn’t argue with

Just interesting that there’s definitely a case for the other side

[solar storm]

Lordy this is a long book

[warped orbit]

the Tian Xia World Guide?

[solar storm]

Tian Xia world guide

Yeah I wanted to give it a skim real quick but there's so many places it covers

[surreal basin]

Be sure to give Winged a kiss when you read the sneks

[light gyro]

crit -> wooden double -> attack of opportunity wooo

my skeleton isnt immune to sickened

[solar storm]

I like that section I think the snakes are pretty weird in a good way

[warped orbit]

...
why tf does Wooden Double have manipulate

[solar storm]

There's an interesting thing where most of the "notable people" section is castes not individuals which I think does a lot of lifting for how the government is set up

[clever cobalt]

I think Winged wrote that part, actually

[solar storm]

yep

[clever cobalt]

I like how Street Fighter-esque Arcade games are canon

[solar storm]

Oh I think I missed that

(Not surprising its 300 pages and I've only skimmed it)

[clever cobalt]

In the Goka chapter

[solar storm]

lmao that's great

[warped orbit]

waiting for Alley Basher II Super Turbo Edition

[upbeat ridge]

isnt the new tian xia book adding some area weapons like what weve seen with soilder in sf2e?

[clever cobalt]

I haven't deen any weapons yet

Though I have seen Ships

[upbeat ridge]

Ah fair, I thought I heard something about that

[solar storm]

I think most of that is gonna be in the other Tian Xia book

It's just monsters and ships in here near as I can tell

[upbeat ridge]

Ah ok

[frozen hatch]

In 1e if you had any creature as a bodyguard that was limited to 3hd or 2 bodyguards with 2hd what would you pick? Requirements are they have to have 3 or more int and a language.

[light gyro]

least powerful hero point reroll

[warped orbit]

was that a spellstrike?

[light gyro]

unfortunately not, just a dimensional assault

[surreal basin]

This is in strength of thousands yes

[upbeat ridge]

wait did winged actually write for the new tian xia book?

[surreal basin]

Yes

[light gyro]

||_________yeag||

[upbeat ridge]

oh, hell yeah

[warped orbit]

yes

[surreal basin]

||I can tell because the rod of wonder as a weapon is only in that AP||

[light gyro]

this AP im running has two back-to back +2 solo spellcaster bosses, and both have crit-failed against the bard's stupify

[warped orbit]

lmao

[light gyro]

I JUST LOST A FINGER OF DEATH TO STUPIFY

[solar storm]

augh augh augh

[light gyro]

(its ok im the GM, that means its awesome and cool)

i just lost an 8th level harm to stupify ITS SO OVER

[light gyro]

and thats another chapter of strength of thousands down! ||the party has successfully ascended a new sun god.||

[solar storm]

Hmm I have a little bit of a criticism for the Tian Xia world guide I think

Though it also applies pretty well to the Impossible Lands one

These books feel weirdly light on adventure hooks

Which is something I really wanted them to have

Lots of gazetteer stuff but less "here's some Trouble to throw adventurers at" hooks

It's not impossible but its clearly not a focus, and I guess with Paizo's "release tons of first party modules" release model not so important

But I have run into some issues with interesting places which leave me wondering what exactly I should have the PCs do here

Shoutout to Nagajor for having 2 really clear ones though

These are so weird though I love them

[surreal basin]

AGH FUCK

WHY

[eager mountain]

Ooo spooky

https://tenor.com/view/it-spooky-spooky-ikumi-nakamura-e3-e32019-gif-14310341

[carmine egret]

Does anyone know why the Beginner Box Foundry module would be listed as "unavailable"? I have the PDF

[solar storm]

This one?

https://paizo.com/products/btq02eap

If so that one is its own product and comes with a ton of extras

[carmine egret]

The one it links in its description. I was able to put it in my cart but when I try and check out it... doesn't? And I noticed it's listed as unavailable when I do.

[solar storm]

Huh I have no idea

Might be Paizo's web store fucking up

I've heard clearing cookies and relogging can help

[carmine egret]

I think that was it actually, danke lol

[solar storm]

I had a similar issue before haha

[worthy stump]

paizo's store is, uhh... sometimes (often) not very functional

[limber comet]

Been reading the Tian Xia world guide and

https://youtu.be/D_V1bF0f7Gw?si=HQjiFN6YelmkfKR9 me n the homies pullin up to Chu Ye

[clever cobalt]

I think LO Absalom was really good on the adventure hook front

Also I like the Three Headed God

I wonder if Makapatong wrote this God

[frank crystal]

They did work on this book right?

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[turbid dagger]

Yep!

[clever cobalt]

They wrote Minata

Which is based on SEA

You can definitely see some GB influence in it

[limber comet]

Binturong jumpscare

[clever cobalt]

I definitely wanna make a Minatan Iruxi, as supposedly there's a lot of them there

[limber comet]

I mean there's explicitly a reference to Bakunawa, the serpent who swallows the moon

There's not as much kaiju information as I was hoping

[solar storm]

Yeah, I think Mwangi was also stronger

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/kangaroo-squint-suspicious-chewing-thinking-gif-3626489563661256294

[frank crystal]

Ok I like 4e and I like the inspiration a lot of games have taken from it

But admittedly I am kinda annoyed people look at any tactical TTRPG and say “wow this is just like dnd 4e!”

4E DIDNT INVENT THE IDEA OF A TACTICAL FOCUSED TTRPG

THERE ARE OTHER GAMES

[eager mountain]

ye

its very clicky baity

[frank crystal]

It really does feel like, because 4e was so controversial when it came out comparing every tactical TTRPG to it is like

A good way to stoke that controversy

Because most people know 4e was in some way controversial but don’t know what it actually played like

[silver geyser]

4e will cause engagement to this day because grognards are still mad.

[young chasm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1070835246683131945/1232875169236779018/RDT_20240424_1905317531119182828443580.jpg?ex=662b0bfa&is=6629ba7a&hm=1d16d60f3b8b858a48b60db5c6fed2098bdbc8b63934cdd918dc39fd919f1ef4&

[surreal basin]

Is this actually common

I more commonly see someone being like “hey is this balanced: completely bugfuck insane house rule” or something similar lol

[limber comet]

I don't even look at those posts

I look for fanart

Smiles

[thorny berry]

yes I definitely feel like I see them regularly

[uneven wren]

So I just changed my character sheet over to the remastered rules and it changed my spell list slightly

It gave me void warp

And uhhhhh I think I can now heal myself with a Cantrip?

My character has the revenant background

So I heal from void damage

Funnily enough it was my GM that noticed this

[unborn rain]

Void damage only heals undead if it states as such

[uneven wren]

Oh that's good to know

I swear this game hides rules for fun

[unborn rain]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1552&NoRedirect=1

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1745

Two spells to compare to show what I mean

It turns out Void Warp can't even target undead

[uneven wren]

I'm a revenant I'm technically still living

[unborn rain]

Pathfinder rules about a given thing are like half in the revelevant section and then the other half is spread evenly throughout all the different books

[uneven wren]

As little Easter eggs

I found that in starfinder as well

Turns out half the rules for radiation are under the armor section

Basically the rule around void damage is never actually stated its merely implied in the absence. Shadows on the wall, Plato's dungeon

Oh I see so there's "negative damage," and "negative effects that heal undead" I get it

Now here's a real head scratcher: can I cast my favorite spell Helpful Steps in an occupied square? Is this another one with hidden rule clarifications?

[unborn rain]

It doesnt say not which is weird as it usually would

But also if you put in a occupied square I don't think it'd do anything

other than just being nearer to you

[uneven wren]

Cast it under your feet and have it lift you 40' in the air

Cast under someone else's feet then dismiss it once they are 40' in the air

They are extremely helpful steps

[limber comet]

I don't think I'd allow that

I'm normally a rule of cool person but that seems cheap lmao

[uneven wren]

Then again if I was a DM I would say dismissing them means they disappear in the same manner they appeared gently lowering the person to the ground

Still a very useful spell everyone laughed when I took it but darned if we don't need to reach things a lot

[limber comet]

LMAO

Imagine if you got all excited about the gm allowing your plan only for the monster or enemy to be gently sat back down on the ground

I don't even think I'd be frustrated

[uneven wren]

I do think in the right circumstances casting it at your own feet could be cool as hell, like if there are some people on a balcony and you just rise up beside them

[unborn rain]

It's all fun and games until you realise that to climb a 40 foot ladder you need to make 8 consequitive climb checks

(ladders are the easiest level DC suggested in the climb check rules)

[uneven wren]

Oof that's why the stairs option is superior

Subtly? Nah spiral staircase I'm a dignified mage I don't climb

[unborn rain]

it's so funny that like, a halfing or gnome with -1 strength can bearly climb a ladder

[uneven wren]

Rungs are too far apart

[unborn rain]

And they've got a 5% chance every time that they'll fall off

A level 10 PC with maxed out strength and athletics is the start of when you can just climb a ladder and never fail

[uneven wren]

I think I have about that chance irl

Maybe even a little worse

Like 8%

[solar tendon]

people die on ladders all the time

[clever cobalt]

Wanna create a self insert (perhaps an isekai self insert) character for Golarion, but I'm unsure of what class to go

[sinful gyro]

I think that new one with the weapons and items would be good for it

Not animist, the other one

Exemplar!

[rustic cape]

Yeah exemplar seems like a natural fit for isekai

[clever cobalt]

True

[fossil temple]

Isekai but your past life you were 🥔

[clever cobalt]

When I say Isekai I broadly just mean like, transported from modern earth to golarion

If that mattrrs

As opposed to strictly "reborn in another world with special powers" sorta deal

[light gyro]

isnt golarion-earth in the early twentieth century atm? ww1-style gunslinger?

[solar tendon]

isekai can be time travel

I think oracle works quite well too

maybe more in the pf1e lore though

[clever cobalt]

How's Oracle in PF1e?

[clever cobalt]

And possibly!

[rustic cape]

It’s a spellcaster

[solar tendon]

no the difference is that in pf1e the oracle lore is you've had divine power thrust upon you and the curse is a side effect of that

in pf2e the oracle lore is that you are investigating a mystery and the curse is a consequence of that understanding

[silver geyser]

1e Oracle is a spont caster with a list that isn't great for spontaneous casting. The mystery and curse have a lot more variance, and one of my favorite tricks with it is taking a truly crippling curse and slapping it on opponents

[echo briar]

Gunslinger is the obvious example

being the only person in the world with a 1911 is enough to make you on par with any other adventurer

a 1911 is still good enough IRL 113 years later.

[barren cipher]

https://battlezoo.com/products/free-battlezoo-otherworlders-pdf

(it's not particularly serious or useful, alas)

[sinful gyro]

Got to level 6 in my Kingmaker game

Eldrich archer mode activate

Time to do 6d6+2+4 bleed each turn

[unborn rain]

major W

We love to see Eldritch archer come online

[sinful gyro]

I got the stag helm to

So I can make someone off guard to my ranged attacks once a day

as a free action

So I just show up to the fight and absolutely murder 1 guy

[heavy mesa]

Tian Xia Good

Minata and Valash Raj good

[clever cobalt]

ye

[echo briar]

Apparently, the guardian couldn't be called the Aegis "for reasons that will become apparent". What could this possibly mean?

Does it explode when it touches a shield?

[warped orbit]

perhaps something in Starfinder

[sinful gyro]

Maybe something in the Godwar?

Like a new artifact or god or locations or something

[surreal basin]

Imagine if it’s because guardians don’t use shields

[echo briar]

But guardians are shields. The name would still be fine

[warped orbit]

I assume they'll be able to use shields at least

though probably have other options too

[trail nova]

DSP Aegis port????

[echo briar]

Maybe Aegis is a mythic destiny

or more likely "[insert mythical word like adamantine or celestial] Aegis"

[warped orbit]

Oh yeah that would make sense

[solar storm]

That seems most plausible to me

[frank crystal]

I do really hope alchemist get martial prof with bombs when the remaster 2 comes out

It’s such a weird decision to me they don’t

[warped orbit]

I still think Alchi needs some more fundamental changes than just a bit of prof shuffling

Feel like they probably won't get that though

[turbid dagger]

Honestly I wouldn't mind if they just got martial prof with like
martial weapons 😛

[frank crystal]

I mean yah but martial prof is just something that would be really nice

And kinda make it less complicated

Because even with the worst of players, they can at least just throw bombs around and get good results

[echo briar]

the problem with that is that it takes up a good chunk of class budget that non bomb based subclasses can't use as much

On the other hand, bomb based characters kinda need it.

[warped orbit]

I kinda want the subclasses to be more specialized, though I don't think they will actually do that

[echo briar]

each item should have its own subclass

[warped orbit]

but my main thing is that Alchi needs better at-will options way earlier

Perpetual helps, but it's too late and also only really fills the role of at-will option for Bombers

[echo briar]

You need to chose between being a moderate alchemist fire alchemist or a greater alchemist fire alchemist at level 1, when you can use nether

[limber comet]

Alchemist needs a chef subclass

:]

[solar tendon]

they could tho

[echo briar]

Its from a developer. I can only assume its official

You heard it here first, the new class is Pedro Pascal

In seriousness, I hope commander has PF1 leadership feats but balanced

[clever cobalt]

Also on that note

[echo briar]

The PF2 subreddit is seems to be having some issues with moderation, or at least major issues with communication from the mod team https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/tXK7Oreewf

I feel like theres very interesting discussion to be had there, but when you start banning threads for talking about it, no one learns anything.

[solar storm]

I'm honestly not sure what its about its been so clamped down on

We've been watching it some as mods in case it blows up in a way which effects pnet

[clever cobalt]

What's going on exactly?

[echo briar]

(Cyan please let me know if this is too far and I will delete it) this is probably more enlightening https://www.reddit.com/u/luck_panda/s/3R6iGfHew9

Check their recent comments

This is the mod that’s causing most of the drama

[solar storm]

I don't think it is its basically public record

[echo briar]

“No it's not. Everything you would want for "samurai" is already in the game. The thing that makes it flavorful for people is the racism.” Is probably the most damming thing

[solar storm]

I understand it has... something to do with Samurai but idk what it actually is

[surreal basin]

for me it's "monks are always physically weaker than the euro coded classes"

like what

that's just wrong

[thorny berry]

yeah I mean there's.... not really an iajitsu thing

every now and then somebody asks about that and gets disappointed by 'uhhhh quick draw I guess?'

[echo briar]

The thing is, I agree with like 90% of what they're saying. Its just how their saying it (and the other 10%) thats making me raise eyebrows

[solar storm]

I do think Samurai are in a sort of weird spot where their historical reality is... basically all stuff you could do with Fighter or maybe PF2 ranger. But there's also a kind of mythos around them which is partially orientialism and partially like Japanese self-mythologizing

[thorny berry]

yeah, like

I don't think it's racist to go hey that anime, from japan, about samurai had cool shit I wanna do that

[echo briar]

yea, but its not racism, at least not inherently

Its like wanting a knight class

[thorny berry]

well okay I guess you kinda get into cross racial roleplaying maybe which is kind of a separate can of worms but

[eager mountain]

oh hmmmmm

wonder if ink is still here

[surreal basin]

I just don't think a samurai class or a knight class would offer anything

[eager mountain]

ink is one of the mods from the p2e reddit

[thorny berry]

yeah I mean samurai could probably be archetype-sized tbh

[surreal basin]

i don't think it's racist i just don't think there's anything they could have

[solar storm]

I personally don't feel much need for a "Samurai" class in PF2 but I wouldn't mind a lightning draw themed archetype since its a cool thematic play space for a lot of concepts

[surreal basin]

i don't even think theres enough missing to need an archetype like

what would it add

[solar storm]

I just say "lightning draw" to indicate its more than quick draw

[echo briar]

it wouldn't. But homebrews of them shouldn't be removed

[surreal basin]

ooh yeah not a huge fan ofthat

[echo briar]

wrong reply sorry

[solar storm]

I agree I think nearly all of the "Samurai play fantasy" is well encapsulated in already existing martials

[thorny berry]

I mean the iajitsu thing seems like a very specific thing that is very much a big trope not served by the present system but also that could easily be A Feat

[solar storm]

Yeah that's true, archetype is probably too broad anyway

[surreal basin]

I mean that's just quickdraw right

[thorny berry]

I mean not really

[eager mountain]

hearing it from ink themselves , atleast a few times becuase theres been alot of discussion lately about this over there.

( the p2e discord I mean 0

[thorny berry]

there's generally more gravitas and such on it to me that suggests a higher-action, higher-damaging attack

[eager mountain]

its like stuff about ninjas and other things not being in the book, and some people being upset about that

[solar storm]

I'm thinking something more like the Sekiro iaijutsu techniques

[surreal basin]

balance wise idk if there's anything that would be balanced about making quickdraw but stronger

[eager mountain]

and some of the mods feeling that ninjas pop culture wise feed into a racist mustical characture of asian people.

[thorny berry]

power attack but it does more damage and has the additional requirement of being sheathed so you can't spam it seems balanced

[surreal basin]

yeah i mean ninjas are just rogues

[echo briar]

Honestly I think the best "samurai" architype would be a faction architype, but I'm not sure if any such factions exist

[surreal basin]

you can be ninja by being a rogue

again i don

[thorny berry]

I mean in popular fiction don't they tend to have more explicitly supernatural abilities

[surreal basin]

don't necessarily think the people who want these things are racist but

[eager mountain]

yeah , but dudes were like getting upset that there werent ninja options and all that I cant remember the exact particulars

[surreal basin]

take a magic archetype as a rogue

shadowdancer or something

anyway yeah this person is being overzealous

[echo briar]

Particularly when many of the people who want this are Japanese

[surreal basin]

idk if there's much more to it though

[eager mountain]

id at ink, but I dont know if I should

[surreal basin]

probably don

don't

[eager mountain]

becuase they are one of the mods dealing with this

[surreal basin]

yeah no

[eager mountain]

yeah its come up quite a bit over there.,

[echo briar]

These aren't just popular in America, they are popular in Japan

[eager mountain]

so its a tired topic

[surreal basin]

thye have enough on their plate with this already lol

[solar storm]

I don't think it'd be a good idea

I do agree though I think Rogue has most ninja stuff in hand

[eager mountain]

but yeah , essentially there was a post about like , the devs saying they didnt want to play into stereotypes about asian cultures and people while making the setting anddd thats kinda why they avoid just making a bunch of ninja and samuria stuff

[solar storm]

Outside of like idk

[eager mountain]

and some dudes took exception to that

[solar storm]

Naruto stuff but those fellas aren't really playing pathfinder

[surreal basin]

if you wanna be a 1e ninja play a rogue with the monk archetype

[thorny berry]

aren't they

[surreal basin]

that's literally what 1e ninja was

[thorny berry]

anyway in conclusion play gubat banwa

[surreal basin]

yeah idk, this person is being overzealous but getting mad at paizo for not including samurai or ninja is weird

[echo briar]

The thing is, I'm not sure any one is doing that

[surreal basin]

demanding them DOES start to veer into racism insofar as the asian themed continent does not have to have those two things

[echo briar]

or at least not in enough numbers to actually be a problem

[eager mountain]

yeah I think that was one of the explinations

[solar storm]

I think they're kind of outside the system norms by being essentially full casters and full martials at the same time I guess

[surreal basin]

yeah

i'm at the ooint of

[thorny berry]

I mean I've been banging the bring swordsage back drum for ages personally

[surreal basin]

you can make a samurai or a ninja

[eager mountain]

yeah just play a fighter or a rogue XD

[surreal basin]

and it would be hard to add MORE support for those tings

things

[solar storm]

I'm amenable to the idea that Naruto is mostly dual-classed characters though

[surreal basin]

without leaning into racist tropes

[eager mountain]

ye

[solar storm]

I wouldn't mind a "big list of regional feats" at some point

[eager mountain]

i just have a soft spot for " ninja-y " characters aka ...basically what rogue does

[solar storm]

Sort of like the extra anti-undead stuff in KoL

But I guess that's pretty different

[surreal basin]

like if your samurai archetype has the "be honorable" edict that's maybe a little sus lol

[eager mountain]

wonder if I can track down the actual reddit post.

[solar storm]

Lowkey you can already do that with a Samurai themed Champion really well I think

[surreal basin]

yeah