Pathfinder

[spring beacon]

Nice a Philippine expy god

[limber comet]

Lh fuck

[spring beacon]

Literally god of kalis, shields and guns

[limber comet]

Thatsxo socool

[carmine egret]

all this shit is cool as hell

[spring beacon]

Gotta say tho the weapons are terrible

Kampilans don't look like that

Like it had scoliosis

And the headhunting axe is.. small and weird

[frank crystal]

It looks like the dude is gripping it by the blade

[eager mountain]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fl_pqVe3v8xgfp4AM6UdVaijdNJq3oy86jaw8U9h0a4/edit

[unborn rain]

I wonder if Pharasma will have something to do with Gorums death

[eager mountain]

mabye

[barren cipher]

she definitely will

afterwards hoho

she’s going to be a very busy lady for a while

[worthy stump]

lmao

[heavy mesa]

Who now will be Golarion’s Fucked Up Fertility Goddess!?

[worthy stump]

https://fixvx.com/paizo/status/1780385834090320036

[heavy mesa]

Farewell Gorum, i’ll always remember thinking you were kinda just there being iron and spiky

[echo briar]

In the words of Cayden Cailean, Go Rum

[heavy mesa]

Well said, to Go Rum then downs pint

Well, Oprak is a nation state with a consensus on its national identity, Belkzen is more or less a bunch of independent warlords and one somewhat influential city state

[limber comet]

Hello! I have made my first official Pf2e character

A Wood Kineticist Nephilim (Fiendish) Orc

[warped orbit]

nice

Wood is a great element for supporting

[limber comet]

I'm going for a melee/support kine

I picked weapon infusion, hardwood armor, and guardian tree

[worthy stump]

monowood kinet? interesting

it is a pretty strong element overall

[limber comet]

Idk if that's "optimal" but I was just building what I think will be fun

OH!

This is for a Kingmaker campaign

[unborn rain]

guardian tree is one of the wilder things you can get

[warped orbit]

Timber Sentinel is very strong yeah

I played a Wood/Earth Kinet with a similar game plan

[limber comet]

I mean I can always change to fresh produce but the gate impulse being temp hp kinda made me think of perhaps a bit beefier kinet that can wade into battle

Cuz the current party is a Thaum and a Rogue

[frank crystal]

Fresh produce is a little weird for in combat healing

Because you make an object that requires an interaction

So it’s actually a lot more actions then it seems

Even more so if you wanna heal others with it

[limber comet]

I still have to make a SoT character as well

I'm thinking Magus/Witch

[worthy stump]

magus

i'm playing one through SoT myself

[frozen hatch]

How did gorum die?

[solar storm]

We don't know yet

[frozen hatch]

Also RIP Khorne's somewhat more benevolent cousin

[silver geyser]

Considering Szuriel is on the War of the Immortals cover, I have some theories on how Gorum dies.

[frozen hatch]

Szuriel is a new name to me

[silver geyser]

Horseman of the Apocalypse, specifically War.

[frozen hatch]

Oh wait it's one of the horsemen

Hmmm.... this is unfortunate as he was actually among my favorites

[solar storm]

sorry about that, whoever they picked was gonna make someone sad

[frozen hatch]

Well at least he's still alive in the 1e APs which is what most of my friends play.

[turbid dagger]

You can do him proud by becoming a revenger with a huge blood-soaked axe and hunting down whoever did him in

[spring beacon]

More tweets Abt tian xia

[craggy thunder]

Fuck're yaoguai?

[turbid dagger]

New ancestry coming in Lost Omens Tian Xia
Elemental whosawhatsits of various kinds

[echo briar]

why are there no simple axes?

I want to take a simple fire axe for an exemplar, but apparently no farmer can just use an axe to chop wood, they need to use a full battle axe for that

[turbid dagger]

There's the hatchet, but it is also martial
The answer is 'simple/martial/advanced is one of PF2e's weaker points'

Don't exemplars have martial prof anyway? They just happen to have deadly simplicity

[echo briar]

also really, no razing axes? the thing people use the most to break things?

[turbid dagger]

Razing was released like two books ago

There haven't really been any big Equipment Books since Treasure Vault

[echo briar]

yea, but its weird they gave it to Bec de Corbin and not something actually known for breaking stuff

[surreal basin]

Honestly simple/martial/advanced should just be swapped out for like….. idk, there being no difference between martial and simple, and you just need a feat to wield an ‘advanced’ weapon at which point they become normal

[solar storm]

Strictly speaking a non-combat axe would be a Tool (Long) so it'd be an improvised weapon which deals 1d6 slashing damage

I like the simple/martial split but advanced is in an awkward spot where they don't consistently provide enough extra value for their barrier to entry

[warped orbit]

My gripe is basically, who are simple weapons actually for?
Because anyone who cares about using weapons most likely has martial prof anyway

[silver geyser]

Simple weapons are there so you don't have to rely on unarmed only. It's there so you don't have to desperation punch

[solar storm]

I agree, simple weapons are there so that less martial classes can have weapons

It's more of a thematic and "when things go wrong" category than a primary fighting style

[turbid dagger]

They feel a touch redundant now that cantrips are a thing people actually use

[silver geyser]

It's not even a matter of cantrips. I don't want to be in a swordfight completely unarmed, even if I do have magic

[solar storm]

Yeah I think some of it is just thematic stuff, like having a basic weapon or two in a fight

Some of it is an escape valve for things like stormtime or antimagic zones

I think there’s also just a world texture thing

[turbid dagger]

I just wish it didn't lock some cool weapons to the Piece Of Shit zone
Like maces or spears
If we're pushing the desperation angle I honestly feel like the prof hit might be enough
Like, is it a big deal if a sorceror has a longsword or something

[solar storm]

“These are the sorts of weapons more everyday people use”

Yeah the lack of martial spears is lame, but that’s a different question than “should weapon categories exist?”

[silver geyser]

Also worth noting that the spears claim to fame is being easy to use

[solar storm]

If you mean historically that isn’t really true

[silver geyser]

Sharp stick has always been there for humanity.

[turbid dagger]

Its assuredly easy to make

[solar storm]

Yeah they are simpler to make than a lot of other weapons but especially in a battlefield context don’t really require a different amount of training

I do think that spears are usually made sort of weak in RPG rules in general because they make reach weaker

[eager mountain]

interesting detail about battle harbinger

[solar storm]

Oh huh

[limber comet]

God

I'm gonna be going to Disney while the new playtest is happening

[limber comet]

I wanna stay home and playtest funny ttrpg

[solar storm]

So… is Arazni seizing the mantle of the war god?

Since there’s an opening

[limber comet]

Nah

Arazni isn't taking over Gorum's portfolio

[solar storm]

Yeah Golarion doesn’t really have FR style portfolio horse trading

[turbid dagger]

Its been said that Arazni isnt taking the dead gods domain
She's just becoming Core
The war portfolio is open, at least in the core gods
We saw at least 3 war gods in the stream alone lmao
Szuriel, the intelligent weapon one, and the multi-headed SEA one

[solar storm]

But people with a martial bent are gonna want a god and “Act with dignity, do whatever it takes to survive, despise and never forgive those who hurt you” fit the bill kind of well ngl

[limber comet]

I mean, another god might slurp up that mantle but who knows

[unborn rain]

War to become war god

Szuriel trying to rise could lead to a temperory alliance with Lamashtu as she doesnt like them and probably wants to stay the primary power in Abbadon

[turbid dagger]

According to a paizo dev chatting on the PF2e server, apparently the Intensely Battle Crazed Warpriest Iconic Oloch is gonna find a new god, so interested to see who he akes up

[turbid dagger]

Lamashtu is the Abyss, no?

[unborn rain]

They're all so similar in name

[solar storm]

Szuriel is an obvious contender I think

[unborn rain]

Yeah I was misremembering, Szuriel stopped Lamashtu invading Abbadon

but they still don't like each other and Lamashtu could use the threat of Szuriel ascending to make another play for power

[turbid dagger]

Honestly I feel Szuriels biggest obstacle to being a Big God is probably............. the other three horsemen 😛

I imagine they are very prone to crab-bucketing

[unborn rain]

Definetly could lead to a crab bucket situation

[limber comet]

Charon is absolutely not gonna let that slide lmao

Charon is the BIGGEST hater

[solar storm]

True

[turbid dagger]

Hell the main reason Abaddon has 4 mini gods is because they Dealt With the last Big Daemon God

[solar storm]

Maybe Kazutal?

Not core but she’s a relatively big deal

And loosely aligned with Arazni

[unborn rain]

Hmm, Kazutal could but also I think like her possibly putting her people at risk by doing that isnt her deal

[limber comet]

I keep forgetting Arazni is Arcadian

Good for her tbh. Queen shit

[unborn rain]

but she's definetly going to get involved, she's got a thing against not helping allies

[eager mountain]

Is she?

[light gyro]

It might not be a fair comparison but watching wotc struggle to squeeze in one more class in 5e then watching paizo release like three classes in just over a year with two more in play-testing is giving me whiplash

[limber comet]

I'm pretty sure she is, considering the Arcadian story from Monsters of Myth refers to Arazni in a way that implies she's from Arcadia

[eager mountain]

I see

[eager mountain]

Yeahhhh but Also properly play tested ones?

[turbid dagger]

WOTC squeezed in one more class? Which one?

[light gyro]

Artificer

(over the entirety of the edition's lifespan. They scrapped mystic for parts.)

[turbid dagger]

lmao

[limber comet]

5e is just afraid to do stuff

Change is scary and people might go away and Hasbro needs money

[unborn rain]

The chart says that what is already happening makes the line go up, so if they do anything else the chart might change for the bad

[limber comet]

And Paizo is just like "let us cook" and by GOD they're cookinh

[solar storm]

I had a similar experience when I moved over from 5e

Paizo release so much more content and the content is more substantial

[rustic cape]

There was a theory going around for a while that Hasbro was more interested in preparing D&D for sale and developing it as a brand then they were in actually releasing D&D content, due to low returns on investment

[solar storm]

I think there is some merit to that

[rustic cape]

I think there's an argument to be made that this was at least true for a while

[solar storm]

D&D is marketed as a lifestyle brand a lot more than Pathfinder

[rustic cape]

Yep

[solar storm]

Lots of tie in merch and stuff and comparatively meager printed offerings

Paizo wants to lock customers into subscriptions for their books which they steadily pipeline out

[rustic cape]

And what printed offerings there are, are generally low-effort retreads of either existing D&D properties or MtG stuff, with little player-facing content

They're not interested in recreating the "a book for everything" model of 3.5

[solar storm]

Yeah it’s strange

There’s huge market demand for that stuff

5e 3pp filled the gap

[rustic cape]

I think Hasbro figured for at least a while that if they were gonna make money from D&D it would be with toys and supplemental materials and such

But given the big wave of firings at WotC it seems likely that they're back to trying to prep it for sale

[solar storm]

I’m kind of skeptical of the sale theory

The brand makes hasbro a lot of money

It’s a very profitable part of their business

I think they’ve just (probably correctly) determined that keeping the core team pretty shoestring and making money on tie in merch has a better ROI

Since Hasbro is already very good at making tie in merch

[unborn rain]

The main way it makes them money is MTG iirc

[solar storm]

Mtg is more but D&D is quite profitable

[light gyro]

Wonder who'd buy d&d if it was going.

Games Workshop

[limber comet]

Oh thag would be. Something

Also hi

I think giant hermit crabs should replace mimics

[eager mountain]

Same , I’ve been having to play 5e with my in person group and ughhhh

I hate 5e

[true delta]

On a similar note: What do y'all emphasize when playing PF2e? Which parts of it make it fun during play?

[clever cobalt]

I'm just happy we got Warlord Commander

Wondering how Gorum is gonna die though

given the Godsrain Prophecy gods died in ironic ways

MAybe he was assassinated?

[clever cobalt]

I personally enjoy combat, as vague as that is

[ionic pier]

Combat and exploration/travel bits are fun

PF2e is the only TTRPG I enjoy the combat in

That I've played

[solar tendon]

I like encounter/exploration with a time pressure

I also like using ecounter mode for things that aren't or aren't yet actually combat

like there was a crocodile ambush encounter at one point and there was like a whole round of just paranoid searching which I enjoyed

[ionic pier]

I'm still not super into dungeon exploration but I feel like that's because I haven't played one that was that well designed…

[solar tendon]

or one time they were trying to get a basilisk into a cage before it petrified them all

[unborn rain]

Dungeons are really hard to make because there's so many walls

[true delta]

I've hardly run the game but the most fun part has been a little chase sequence inside a dungeon last session (chasing Bolan through the treehouse in Gatewalkers).

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/really-willsmith-hmm-well-sarcastic-gif-18053026837878396159

hard to say

Kaiju Desna.

[heavy mesa]

Moff

[light gyro]

cooking a character for pathfinder society games at ukge - starlit span magus kitsune can ranged spellstrike without a free hand. no clue what to do with that tho. shield and staff i guess?

[rustic cape]

Yeah ultimately releasing lots of D&D books is great for the ecosystem of like ... TTRPGs. Employs lots of regular and freelance writers, keeps the content coming for 3pp creators to create stuff in reference to. If you're a nerd who cares about nerd culture, it's great.

But it's not as profitable as selling toys and add-ons

WotC originally bought D&D from TSR because the president at the time was a fan and wanted to rehabilitate the brand, iirc

[fossil temple]

farting wings...

[eager mountain]

he fought himself to death

[heavy mesa]

Pharasma Did It, just like she did Aroden

[rustic cape]

God killing Gorum is so boring

Also god-killing Gorum is so boring

I mean it fits but like

He's the big tough war god nobody really cares about

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/talking-do-i-regret-it-yes-would-i-do-it-again-probably-gif-15623541

[unborn rain]

If Pharasma did it she'd like "no I didnt"

Everyone on Golarion would see it and pharasma would be like "That didnt happen, I'm neutral I'd never kill anyone even if they deserved it"

[eager mountain]

" yeah I DID IT , WHATCHA GONNNA DO ABOUT IT

whos gonna do this fuckin job if I wasnt!?

YOU TRUST GROTEUS TO DO IT?

• turns camera to groteus

[unborn rain]

Live Groteus reaction

[eager mountain]

• vibrates maliciously *

[fossil temple]

Moon looking ass
QUICK GRAB THE OCARINA TO SEND HIM AWAY

[eager mountain]

he only backs up if you feed him athiest souls.

[heavy mesa]

Damn i can’t believe Pharasma killed a third god

[eager mountain]

or ya know, if you avoid an apocalypes

like depending how close t he world is to ending, he gets closer

or further away

[fossil temple]

I know an Amazing soul for that Atheist eating god -runs

[eager mountain]

to be clear, specifclaly I think its old lore that she does that

[trail nova]

... pet theory: Pharasma actually likes Radhoum.

[eager mountain]

but they dont like her

[fossil temple]

Who likes Pharasma even?
Psychopomps does not count

[turbid dagger]

Vast swathes of mortals I must imagine
Maintaining reality + making sure good people are rewarded and bad people are punished + no to undead seems like a popular combination

[fossil temple]

No to undead*
Unless she says is ok

But I mostly meant the deities

[trail nova]

She's also the deity of birth and midwives, IIRC.

[silver geyser]

She is indeed the deity of birth and midwives.

[fossil temple]

Who's the deity of highwives and lowwives?

[heavy mesa]

I like Rahadoum

[fossil temple]

home of the "They look heavy, let me hold them for you" shield

[unborn rain]

Home of the 🤗 emoji

[fossil temple]

true, true

[eager mountain]

I like her

I mean, I usually go prismatic ray, pharasma is cool

[fossil temple]

oh i meant deities, I like her a lot too

[clever cobalt]

I can't wait to indulge in War of Immortals

I'm so curious how it's gonna go

Debating if I want my inevitable Exemplar to be a Fleshwarped or Gnoll from the Mana Wastes, or something else

a Fleshwarped God sounds fun

[worthy stump]

uhh... can't remember any god off the top of my head who likes Pharasma in a friends sorta way. but the vast majority do respect her a lot for her role

[clever cobalt]

also

what are the chances Battlecry! will include Mass Combat

since it seems like a Martial Book

Also

[worthy stump]

that could be interesting, although we do already have the Kingmaker Mass Combat rules. not that that's stopped Paizo before, i think in 1e they remastered the rules from Kingmaker in a full rule book

[echo briar]

I mean, strait up reprinting the envoy would be surprising...

Not good, but surprising

[dark fjord]

martial supports always fun to have

[echo briar]

Honestly, I'm very interested in how the guardian plays

with a name like that, it could be mystical, but probably not, so how do you make defending things interesting

[barren cipher]

based on how things have turned out in the recent past it will probably make champions more or less redundant

[echo briar]

what do you mean? no class in PF2 has ever made an existing class redundant

Looking at how lancer deals with defenders, I don't think they can take anything without magic

except the drake, but the drake is way too passive

[turbid dagger]

Champion kicks mad ass and will continue too

[warped orbit]

I'm fairly sure it'll be non magical as well

[barren cipher]

i dunno, that power has been creeping

[sinful gyro]

I could see having focus spells and stuff

[echo briar]

The best classes in the game are the fighter, rouge, and bard. all in the CRB

[turbid dagger]

There's a fairly iconic form of tanking that I don't think is actually in PF2e yet
Which is 'the attack targets you instead' type abilities
So that might be cool

[barren cipher]

that would have to be pretty expensive i think

[echo briar]

what if its the pathfinder equivalent of the SF2 soldier? that has a con key stat

[unborn rain]

The only really power creepy book was the Fire brands one

[barren cipher]

there's some damage sharing stuff about

[unborn rain]

The only really tanky class in Pathfinder is Champion and Fighter, which can both punish enemies for refusing to engage with you

[echo briar]

that would also make both classes the pathfinder versions of starfinder classes, which I approve of

[barren cipher]

treasure vault has some absolute nonsense as well

[warped orbit]

Con KAS is possible yeah

[echo briar]

I mean, not really

Theres the doorknob (which needs errata) and thats kinda it

[solar tendon]

even just losing lay on hands is a pretty significant change in playstyle I think

and we have like 6 or whatever do damage martials

there's plenty of room for more than 1 tank

[silver geyser]

Champion is a sustain tank

[rustic cape]

Champion is either a sustain tank or a punishment tank

[thorny berry]

it would be interesting to see what they do with a third legendary defense martial

[light gyro]

oh god it's the overwatch problem again

[thorny berry]

I think my concern is like

if a 'guardian' is purely just A Dude with heavy armor or whatever that feels too close to fighter flavor-wise. I'm curious to see what they actually end up doing with it.

[thorny berry]

or rather it feels like something that could be a fighter class archetype

[rustic cape]

I think 4e D&D is worth looking at for different ways that defenders can work, it has quite a few

[echo briar]

I could see it being like the SF 2 soldier, using big attacks to make it hard to hit anyone but them

[thorny berry]

oh yeah mechanically there's plenty of options I'm more pondering the flavor side

(rip swordmage)

[rustic cape]

Man I loved Swordmage

'twas cool

You know what would be fun and what the Guardian won't be

Is like ... if the guardian were a gun-defender, like the Dragoon in Etrian Odyssey 5

[warped orbit]

haha
that would be kinda neat

[rustic cape]

Premised on planting its feet and not moving

"I will hold this position"

[warped orbit]

EOV is still my favorite for class design I think

[thorny berry]

bah gawd, that's 1e's music!

https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Gunslinger Gun Tank

[rustic cape]

Right but I specifically think guns would give it a good excuse to be a reactive sort of defender

Not just a guy with a gun in heavy armor

[thorny berry]

I'm just pondering if the name 'guardian' implies anything more supernatural

like that sounds like it could be kinda 4e warden flavor or something

[light gyro]

Letsgoooo Barbarossa in pathfinder

[echo briar]

The champion is a reactive fighter. We need a proactive defender

[light gyro]

Starlit spam Magus - should I pump str and Dex and just dump int?

[dark fjord]

drake is more analogous to the starfinder 2e soldier anyway

[solar tendon]

I think starlit span magus gets more out of saves than other magi? so needs int

oh wait no

misremembered

[dark fjord]

yeah starlit really hankers for expansive spellstrikes, so if you want to do arcane trickshots with AoE spells, boost INT

[solar tendon]

force fang is just a magic missile

[light gyro]

Ah of course I forgot about expansive.

[dark fjord]

expansive starlits are so fun

[light gyro]

The image of an arrow striking some fool then exploding into a cone of cold is lovely

[barren cipher]

i'd dump strength personally

18 str for +2 damage is very expensive

[dark fjord]

unless you are going gun magus, in which case the kickback weapons want you to have 2 strength

[clever cobalt]

Gun Magus are uh

Hard

[dark fjord]

true

[clever cobalt]

Due to the action economy involved

[dark fjord]

i am well aware lol
i've been playing a starlit with a sukgung and oh boy the action economy

[barren cipher]

the real strength of starlit span is when you can just stand still and spellstrike every turn

[light gyro]

Dump str, longbow, Foxfire so I don't get trolled by volley distance?

[barren cipher]

gun puts you back on the every other turn kinda model

you will get trolled by volley distance

by losing all your runes or having to spend money on handwraps

i'd just use a shortbow but i am a fairly dull person

[dark fjord]

yeah but i am chasing after the platonic ideal of a fatal d12 crit spellstrike (particularly with shocking grasp)

[warped orbit]

I'd avoid volley if you can

Shortbow works fine still, the die step isn't that big a deal

[thorny berry]

hit em with that backpack catapult spellstrike

[barren cipher]

i'd take the loss of runes for that to be honest

spellstrike from 240', why not

[thorny berry]

it's such a dumb weapon I love it

though even without going through all that the sukgung is a full 200'

[clever cobalt]

when did Aroden die again?

[solar tendon]

4606 ar

[clever cobalt]

It's weird it's only been about 100 years

[solar tendon]

interesting how gorum wasnt one of these

[clever cobalt]

I'm surprised Lamashtu and Rovugug got months

[solar tendon]

so are the dwarves

[heavy mesa]

They are both rather ancient

Rovagug especially

[clever cobalt]

True

[solar tendon]

lamashan is the october equiv

notably

[heavy mesa]

With the exception of Aroden all the month gods are very old deities

[solar tendon]

halloween

uh

aroden and this dating system are synonymous I'm pretty sure

like he was the youngest but

[heavy mesa]

Actually Nethys might be younger

He was a demigod at the beginning of Osirion so he postdates Aroden’s ascension

[solar tendon]

like absalom reckoning was adopted in the human societes that aroden kindled in the wake of starfall

None Can Say Why

[clever cobalt]

Because our lord and savior Jesus christ

✝️

[heavy mesa]

Lol

[solar tendon]

osirion was founded before earthfall

[heavy mesa]

Also wow she’s been on the throne for nine whole years

[heavy mesa]

No it was founded after the devastation had passed

[solar tendon]

no ur right

[heavy mesa]

One of the first civilizations to emerge after the skies cleared

[clever cobalt]

I do wonder if God/Allah/Yahweh/etc exists in the Lost Omens setting

[solar tendon]

I didn't realise there was so much time between earthfall and aroden pickin up the starstone

[heavy mesa]

Wonder how Stacy is doing in Irrisen

[unborn rain]

If the Egyptian gods were both active on Earth and Golarion

Then theoretically God/Allah/Yahweh/etc could be some where

[rustic cape]

I doubt this question will ever be explored

[clever cobalt]

Yeah probably

Too much of a minefield

Fun to speculate though

[solar tendon]

it took aroden 5000 years to pick up a rock??

[heavy mesa]

Eait i just realized the Stasian calendar isn’t the gregorian calendar

Golarion is contemporary with 1920s earth

Anastasia was retrieved from WWI russia

For some reason the Stasian calendar is roughly a century ahead of the Gregorian reckoning

[solar tendon]

if you take the 13 gods with months and add the ascended that just leaves Gorum Urgathoa Shelyn and Irori

idk if that means anything

[clever cobalt]

True, weird

[turbid dagger]

Hm
I'm curious, cuz it was a big talking point before the reveal of who died
What is Gorum's presence in SF2e?

[solar tendon]

uhh....not, it would seem

[turbid dagger]

Neat!

And a little surprising

But at least my brain will not scream 'THIS CANON IS FAAAAAAAAKE' at me whenever I'm reading SF stuff

[clever cobalt]

He's not in SF2e at all iirc

[craggy thunder]

initiates a 20 year long plan to get hired as a writer at Paizo to add Amiri as a random npc in an SF AP so she can scream "GOOOORUUUUUUM!" once and do nothing else

[clever cobalt]

Or, SF1E

You know what I mean

[sinful gyro]

Hero point used.

PAIN

[craggy thunder]

oofus

[warped orbit]

many such cases 😔

[light gyro]

my party's magus just hero pointed a flat check against hidden from 1 (fail) to 10 (also fail)

[echo briar]

"The commander is a martial support class that can issue commands to her allies, granting them extra movement, actions, reactions, and more. The guardian is an armored tank, who can taunt opponents and maximize the effectiveness of heavy armor to be a bulwark against nearly any threat. Be sure to try these exciting new classes out in just a few weeks!" we have confirmation on how the new classes will vaguely work

[light gyro]

wow! warlord! just a week away! can you believe it guys? warlord!

[craggy thunder]

commander looks very interesting

I bet it's gonna be a mental key stat

I hope Wis

[echo briar]

Yea, this is looking more and more like they worked with the starfinder team on some divergent classes. Because that also describes the envoy and the soldier

[clever cobalt]

Int probably

[echo briar]

and the playtests are only a few months away from each other

[solar storm]

I'm also guessing Int for the commander yeah

[warped orbit]

I believe they confirmed Int, but that's also just something I heard from other people

[solar storm]

Oh did they?

I was going off of the commander being "Intelligent and clever"

[surreal basin]

Yeah that’s what my assumption is based off

[craggy thunder]

I want it to be wis cuz if not then like

Third Int martial

Fourth

Actually lol

[rotund geode]

Alchemist feels weird to call a martial but ig it is

[solar storm]

Wis is a hard skill to make a KAS since its so strong on its own

Alchemist is kinda just its own thing

But there's still Investigator and Inventor and such so int martials are pretty well represented

[surreal basin]

Personally I think it should be charisma

[craggy thunder]

Alchemist is a martial

[surreal basin]

Commanding and all

[rotund geode]

It can go either way for me

Its about rather you want the fantasy to be as a tactician or as a leader

[turbid dagger]

My bet is int but cha would not surprise me
Save envoy maybe being a lil too similar then
But maybe they WILL just say fuck it and commander is Low Fantasy Envoy

Er, no

High fantasy

As opposed to science fantasy

[solar storm]

Yeah I concur if its a warlordlike cha makes the most sense

[rotund geode]

I would prefer charisma but I feel like its going to be intelligence

[paper inlet]

I mean, depends if we go "I'm an amazing charismatic leader" or "I'm gonna tactics out of this encounter so fucking much, let me cook"
Charisma in the first case, intelligence in the second.

[turbid dagger]

An int class I actually want to play would be fun

[paper inlet]

Lore is an int score

And I'd presume Lore warfare might be important? "Oh, look, I read about this battle 200 years ago that had a similar situation, lemme see what I can do"

[warped orbit]

yeah that's the two common warlord directions

[surreal basin]

maybe youll get to pick

[frank crystal]

It could be like psychic and you can choose

[paper inlet]

And I just looked through the stream once again because there is a vod and it was said "Intelligent and clever Commander"

[frank crystal]

Yah there’s quite a few classes like that already

[paper inlet]

But that's pulling on strands

[echo briar]

I feel like it will start out as int, but there will be enough playtest feedback that they branch out

[young chasm]

the children yearn for 4e warlord

[light gyro]

pictured: the magus and wizard flanking a nuclear bomb

(the magus is grabbed)

[warped orbit]

very bright

[light gyro]

it's a (sot book 4 spoiler) ||sunburst corpse||

[young chasm]

do we know what book commander and gaurdian are coming in?

[solar storm]

Battlecry

[light gyro]

lisan al gaib

[worthy stump]

he points the way...

[turbid dagger]

Hmmm
There's been murmurs of an upcoming Big War with Cheliax.....
I wonder if thats gonna be the metaplot of the Commander/Guardian book
Since they seem to have a theme of like
'martial discipline'

And the stream led into the playtest announcement with 'well, when gods go to war, their followers tend to do so also'

[sinful gyro]

I could see that

Infinite money hack in pf2e:

1. starting characters get starting gold
2. you can make a new character if you die
3. make a character, drop money on ground, die
4. make a new character
5. repeat steps 3 and 4

"GM, may I play a different character?" The fools

[solar storm]

flawless

[light gyro]

Can't remember - did they confirm whether or not kitsune would get anything in the tian xia character guide?

[worthy stump]

they are, iirc

[clever cobalt]

How would you go about making a Pyschic connected to the Dark Tapestry in some way?

[barren cipher]

i
saw / heard / touched / read / imagined
an awful truth / something from outside / a forbidden light / the beginning and end of all things / a malicious power
and now
they say that i'm mad but i'm saner than everyone else / i'll do anything to do it again / unearthly strength fills me / it unlocked something in me that should have stayed asleep / i'll use it to make them all pay

also i'm psychic now.

[trail nova]

I want to see the Cheliax navy get crushed again, as Taldor goes “oops, we have WW2 US levels of shipbuilding apparently”

[young chasm]

sayre on class archetypes

[solar storm]

Yeah that's reasonable

Paizo doesn't write only for the extremely online fans who follow all the content and chat about builds for hours a week

(Which is broadly speaking most of us here)

[clever cobalt]

What gave it away? V:

[young chasm]

idk i think i have mixed feelings about it

mostly bc im biased towards the concept of class archetypes but like

they really think it's a bad use of limited page space?

sayre also thinks its been "too early" to start printing more of them?

its been 5 years

[solar storm]

I'm honestly not really sure what class archetypes are exactly?

Like the war priest/CC split?

[young chasm]

think spellshot from gunslinger

they're essentially a very linear progression of flavoured feats around a specific theme

spellshot was never executed properly but the idea remains the same

you take archetype feats and these feats can change how you approach the class versus taking feats from the class to build a different kind of playstyle

[ionic pier]

As someone who's not super into tweaking builds in PF2e, yes I get easily confused sometimes already

It'm glad they think about those with incredibly shiny and smooth brains like myself

[young chasm]

wellspring mage, elementalist, flexible spellcaster, are other class archetypes if you're familiar with them

[young chasm]

yeah i don't disagree, the organization of it is super important

[solar storm]

Those all seem sort of different to me

From spellshot I mean

[young chasm]

they are, they do different things, but the investment is the same

spellshots a little more specific since its gunslinger unique

[solar storm]

Yeah that's what strikes me as different

Flexible spellcaster and elementalist are for pretty common play fantasies which don't really make sense as a class to me

Spellshot being a class archetype makes sense but the others don't really feel like that to me

[young chasm]

its because they require class feats

[solar storm]

Like it makes sense to limit making things like Spellshot to me because only people who are interested in a gunslinger, and on top of that using a magic gun is pretty niche

[warped orbit]

Spellshot is an outlier for not really needing to be a class archetype

it changes your class DC to Int based, but that's also mostly a bad thing

it could have just been a regular way, and it'd be fine

[solar storm]

Ah ok, found a pretty good explanation on the subreddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/14pyapu/do_class_archetypes_even_exist/

Class archetypes being archetypes which actually alter how the base class functions

[warped orbit]

generally class archetypes make more fundamental changes to features, yeah

[solar storm]

I didn't actually realize Runelord was one haha

[clever cobalt]

Only one I ever use is Draconic Diehard from Battlezoo

[solar storm]

I've never looked very closely at it

[clever cobalt]

So I'm unsure if that counts

Also I kinda want a dedicated Shapeshifter class, but I'm unsure how it would work

Maybe like the Evolutionist from SF1e?

[young chasm]

there's a literal shifter from pf1e, maybe it'll see it's conversion in a future book

[ionic pier]

This reminds me I've never looked into Druid in pf2e

[solar storm]

I quite like how the 2e druid works

[clever cobalt]

Druids in 2e are fun yeah

But they're primarily spellcasters

[solar storm]

The D&D druid in general is just kind of a weird mishmash of things and PF2 contains most of them very nicely

[clever cobalt]

Even the shapeshifting ones

[ionic pier]

I unfortunately haven't had much of a chance to play a lot of PF2e

[solar storm]

I've had fewer chances than I'd like but I get to run it about as much as I want

[ionic pier]

I played a witch (which was sad because yeah I felt a bit underpowered, though the Revised Witch looks great), then a thaumaturge, and I'm about to play a warpriest of sarenrae

[clever cobalt]

And yeah I'm aware of the Shifer class

I just worry it's a bit too... close to the Wild Druid thematically

Not a big enough difference to warrant a whole class

Maybe as like, a Druid Class Archetype?

Ironic given we just discussed Class Archetypes

[young chasm]

i could see that

personally i'd love a martial summoner class archetype

remove its spellcasting and just have the summoner and eidolon beat the shit out of things

the feats are already there

[surreal basin]

I played a witch with this as their plotline
They're now a god

[turbid dagger]

I've always figured this was the purpose of Class Archetypes and I'm glad this post confirms that
They're for subclasses that Can Work in the class framework that exists but would have a load of bespoke feats that would feel weird to have cluttering up the normal feat list with 'prereq:' slapped onto them
And with that confirmed I should revisit Hunter Barb and make it a Class Archetype so I can give it more feats without feeling like a weirdo 😛

[surreal basin]

after winning the ruby pheonix tournament they like

metamorphisized into a demigod

after spending the whole campaign like

[solar tendon]

I'm honestly not convinced haha

[surreal basin]

fucking mutating and having their body crumble apart

[solar tendon]

or ,at least rather, I do trust that was the intent behind the spellshot, but I don't think that's borne out by the final text

[surreal basin]

I mean they say as much

that they don't like it

and feel they ccould have done it better

[warped orbit]

if Spellshot remains a class archetype, it should have some more substantial features IMO

[solar tendon]

I mean they say it's fundamentally doing what it needed to do (ie, even in it's current form it justifies being a class archetype)

[surreal basin]

fair enough

anyway I don't think it reflects on class archetypes as a concept

[solar tendon]

not really no

just an odd duck

[surreal basin]

spellshot is slightly limp but idk, it's functional, it does alright and has some cool stuff

like thoughtful reload is pretty great for an int character

[turbid dagger]

IMO it does do that, even if its not startlingly impressive or anything
If 'you can zoop into your bullet and teleport' was in normal Gunslingers featlist people would be like
'huh whuh'

[surreal basin]

yeah

[solar tendon]

I think it's just if call gun didn't exist and conjure bullet was baked into thoughtful reload I honestly wouldn't bat an eyelid at spellshot being included in base gunslinger personally

[surreal basin]

I think basically the deeds are kinda meh but it's feets are pretty good

I agree but I think we aren't the people this idea is targeted at

[solar tendon]

perhaps

[warped orbit]

I think Spellshot is mostly fine, but it normally locking you out of other archetypes just hurts a lot

also the dedication is just kinda nothing
the deeds and feats are pretty decent

[surreal basin]

oh i mean yeah conjure bullet isn't very good

[solar tendon]

but then people get confused by triggerbrand

so

[surreal basin]

combined with call gun it's situationally useful

[solar tendon]

I guess that is true

hm

now I want to see a universe where triggerbrand was a class archetype oh no

it could include skill feats!

[limber comet]

Oh

I guess with the brand new classes we're getting new iconics

Hm

That's 4 brand new iconics in a row

They're cooking

Can we get another orc maybe

[solar tendon]

other than battle herald being the old warpriest were the other two class archetypes existing characters or are they new iconics too?

[limber comet]

Uhhh well the shaman was there as Rivethun Emissary

But I meant for Commander and Defender

I do really want more unique ancestry iconics

I want a catfolk commander

[solar tendon]

oh ik I meant like is it even more than 4

[limber comet]

Oh I dunno

I meant for the main classes

Nahoa and Samo are brand new

Being Nephilim representatives as well as brand new classes

[turbid dagger]

I hope the commander iconic is a hobgoblin

[limber comet]

Unlikely considering hobs aren't gonna be in pc 2

Unless I'm mistaken but

¯_(ツ)_/¯

OH

HOB IS COMING IN PC 2

Cool

[solar tendon]

hobgoblins rock

[frank crystal]

Oh clockwork Amalgams are only large?

I thought they were Gargantuan

They should be gargantuan

I’m making them gargantuan

[turbid dagger]

Yeah thats............ odd

[frank crystal]

It feels wrong

Like

It’s clearly a giant clockwork worm

They should be gargantuan like the other giant worms

[turbid dagger]

Yeah its a literal heap of clockwork

[frank crystal]

Yah like look at this and tell me it’s not a robot kaiju

[turbid dagger]

There's a whole chimney built into it

[frank crystal]

That’s a whole ass chimney

[tough perch]

thats probably a whole neck chimney i think, or maybe torso, i dont know much snake anatomy

but i'd guess that the ass chimney is further down

[wooden orbit]

Kinda excited to see how Gorum dies in War of the Immortals story. Apparently he's not the only deity that's going to die in the metaplot, since we got an AP focused on orcs (I think) coming after the first AP tied into the War of the Immortals story that they said will feature the ancestral pantheons taking some hits.

[worthy stump]

yeah, they've stated that on top of the core god dying, there'll be a lot of minor gods biting the dust too

[eager mountain]

my notes

again

[limber comet]

Hey isn't it weird that Rovagug is essentially a great old one

[silver geyser]

Nah, there's plenty of those.

[eager mountain]

not really.

[surreal basin]

He’s a qlippoth lord apperantly

[limber comet]

Furthering my argument that Qlippoths should be double type as aberrations AND fiends

[light gyro]

Old ✅
Great (big) ✅
Rovagug is a great old one.

Old ✅
Great (cool guy) ✅
Old Man Jatembe is a great old one

[thorny berry]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6swfw?Announcing-the-War-of-Immortals

"The commander is a martial support class that can issue commands to her allies, granting them extra movement, actions, reactions, and more. The guardian is an armored tank, who can taunt opponents and maximize the effectiveness of heavy armor to be a bulwark against nearly any threat. Be sure to try these exciting new classes out in just a few weeks!"

sounds extremely warlord

I'm... a little skeptical from that guardian description, but I guess we'll see.

I think my beef with it flavor-wise remains that it still just sounds like a fighter

like I really dug how the thaumaturge managed to go in hard on capturing a more unique and specific class fantasy

[limber comet]

That is not how it works lmaooo

My thing is that, after reading Rovagug's "death", he seems...incomprehensible

When they fight him, he's "everywhere, all at once"

Whatever that means

[light gyro]

there's not really any martials that benefit from an ancestry unarmed attack right? outside of ranged unarmed stuff maybe

[thorny berry]

Well, I'm fond of gnoll bite for a hands-free grapple

[solar storm]

Guardian is the one I’m more interested in because I expect Paizo to cook but I also struggle to see how it’ll have its own niche

[thorny berry]

yeah I guess it just feels more like they had a mechanical role they wanted to do rather than like a particular character story they wanted people to be able to tell

and I love that kind of flavor-driven design (again: see thaum), so

[solar storm]

It’s hard for me to say

We’ve only gotten very generic stuff on them

For all we know it’s a defensive caster class

I think protective characters inherently have a lot of character/narrative juice though

[eager mountain]

ThE GREAT DRAGON CARP

used to be a normal carp...

ascended by successfully jumping a waterfall

[true delta]

Like in Pokémon?

[eager mountain]

yes

[light gyro]

o great wyrm, grand me your blessing as i hustlegrindset my way up the corporate ladder

[eager mountain]

" Failure and weakness is not something to be ashamed of, but rather , are opportunities to grow and learn"

[true delta]

Fish of motivation

[eager mountain]

seriously tho, feesh

people who worship jin li as the god of promotion keep large ponds with carp , hoping that by taking care of the fish , jin li will look favorably upon them

[unborn rain]

Do carps have gods

[eager mountain]

appearently

ALSO

https://tenor.com/view/fea-giant-rat-gif-25069354

LAO SHU PO LOOKS MORE FUCKED UP THAN I THOUGHT

[eager mountain]

glad to see that the Magaambya is still teaching despite golarion missing

[light gyro]

do we know if the old man himself is still around?

[unborn rain]

I think if even if he Isnt I don't believe it

[eager mountain]

i dont thin khe is

he got far tho

[clever cobalt]

Kholo/Gnolls are in PC2 right

[unborn rain]

yeah

[clever cobalt]

Nice

Also I second the desire for more Non-human Iconics

(or at least visibly non-human, I'm not counting Dwarves or Elves or whatever)

Leshy Guardian 👀

[sinful gyro]

Leshy commander

[rustic cape]

He and Baba Yaga allegedly hang out once in a while

... oh in Starfinder

Never mind

[surreal basin]

Yes he is

He is in an AP

[eager mountain]

which one?

in starfinder?

[sinful gyro]

Dragon Commander time

[eager mountain]

whats that in ??

[sinful gyro]

Player Core 2

[eager mountain]

aahhhh

how long til lthat comes out ?

ah july

so 3 months

[clever cobalt]

Core Gnolls/Kholo

[eager mountain]

and tripkee

https://tenor.com/view/frog-sitting-meme-funny-gif-15518043535710952457

[sinful gyro]

I'm playing a hobgoblin atm

Wonder if they'll change any

[surreal basin]

Oh god dammit

I also misread in star finder

[true delta]

Heya. For my Gatewalkers campaign, I'm slapping deviant abilities onto community pregens for my friends who are joining on short notice. I don't fully adhere to the rules: For instance I gave Amiri Giant Swing when it should be Bone Spikes, because it's more fun. Now... What would work for Freyja and Ezren? Mechanically, I mean. Bone Spikes on Feyja might act as a minor upgrade once she gets Witch's armaments and the awakening which grants Sweeping to Bone Spikes. I've considered putting the Dragon classification stuff on Feyja or Ezren but it ended up feeling somewhat redundant with all their other spells. That being said, I'm inexperienced. What would you do?

[eager mountain]

https://youtu.be/jD4X1AUkock

[light gyro]

strength of thousands book 4 spoiler. ||if the party manage to ascend dajermube next session im gonna have it happen literally the day after Gorum dies||

[echo briar]

So what could a "prepared marital" be thats not just the inventor or the fighter?

[craggy thunder]

Little strategy features you figure out?

[surreal basin]

Yeah so like

[warped orbit]

presumably means they have a list of maneuvers, and you choose which ones to prepare

[craggy thunder]

Could be a character that uses focus points for not spells

[surreal basin]

There’s probably - yeah that

[warped orbit]

which is cool tbh

having a list of little not-spells to choose from is nice

[surreal basin]

Probably like

Vs Kinet as a Spont

Having a short list of things you always have

Darkest Dungeon Thought:

Highwayman - Drifter Gunslinger?

[rustic cape]

Bride :P

[young chasm]

a prepared martial

i’m fascinated

[silver geyser]

Book of Nine Swords pilled

[carmine egret]

Martial Controller incoming 😎

[light gyro]

You get a number of Attack Slots per day, and when you use them up you forget how to swing your sword

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I figure you like
Get an array of Stratagems and choose which your rocking at daily prep

[echo briar]

Or you get to put your party though X amount of drills every morning for full party effects

[carmine egret]

Oooo

There's an idea

[turbid dagger]

I worry about a class gimmick being a passive effect you set up at daily prep, because it would make the actual in the moment gameplay of the class a little less juicy just due to power balance

[carmine egret]

So the Alchemist problem

[barren cipher]

daily stratagems that you can prepare in advance or expend twice the resources to quick strategise

also you have to buy the formula engagement report to add to your crafting book war journal

[surreal basin]

Everyone else can buy single use stratagems as well

[turbid dagger]

I'd CRY

[clever cobalt]

In a good or bad way

[thorny berry]

aaaa

but yeah 'prepared martial' has me like

[turbid dagger]

Bad way
Alchemist is scary
I don't like it 😢
Please no Warlord Alchemist please 😢

[carmine egret]

Well they're revising Alchemist

[echo briar]

And they nerfed a bunch of alchemist stuff, so hopefully that means they are giving the base class a huge buff

[unborn rain]

Alchemist is epic and cool

[echo briar]

Or maybe they only make it kinda better and its just worse now

[limber comet]

Alchemist is probably getting buffed

[barren cipher]

alchemists need some sort of inventor-style baseline drug problem solution

[echo briar]

I would much rather they fix the base class than indirectly buff it via an item

[limber comet]

Even if alchemist was "bad" I'd still play it

Potion slinging is too cool to pass up

[solar tendon]

they can't really buff it via itemisation because the items are already good enough so good news I guess

[limber comet]

So

I was reading Inner Sea Gods 1e

And

This seems interesting~

[wooden orbit]

https://paizo.com/products/btq02sxe?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-207-The-Resurrection-Flood Anyone else see this one?

[barren cipher]

why would gorum choose to live in elysium? maybe someone would start a fight about it

[sinful gyro]

Maybe someone attacked Elysium

Maybe they defended it

[limber comet]

It reads like Gorum did a favor for the Elsyian gods

[warped orbit]

Gorum was the guardian of Elysium IIRC

[turbid dagger]

Yes!!!!!!!
Orc AP Orc AP Orc AP Orc A-

[limber comet]

Yes but it seems like he became that way, and was permitted to stay in Elsyium, due to an ancient pact

[wooden orbit]

ORC! ORC! ORC! ORC!

We taking the fight to the Whispering Tyrant.

[turbid dagger]

And:
New, stylish outfit for Ardax White-Hair

[limber comet]

Drip or drown, dwarves

[clever cobalt]

Ardax is cool

He's the first major Orc Overlord since Belkzen right

[heavy mesa]

OH NO HE'S HOT!!!!

They put him through the King Geb makeover machine

[clever cobalt]

Where's the Jeb Geb meme

[heavy mesa]

Is PF2e just gonna hit all its major NPCs with the Pretty Stick?

[wooden orbit]

You mean the drip stick?

[heavy mesa]

I demand Hot Supreme Leader Azaersi

[clever cobalt]

This is the second WoI AP right?

After Curtain Call

[solar tendon]

probably gonna be dealing with woi and aftermath for the next several aps tbh

[heavy mesa]

WoI?

[solar tendon]

would be kinda fun to play a Matanji in this ap and just constantly be like Avistan people think what?

war of immortals

[clever cobalt]

War of Immortals

The Gorum-dying event

[heavy mesa]

ah

Wonder if we'll get any info on Nocticula's cult

[solar tendon]

there's a new deity sourcebook

[heavy mesa]

what happens when Chaotic Evil assassins have a crisis of faith when their Goddess changes alignment

[solar tendon]

Divine Mysteries

[heavy mesa]

yeah but APs often have like worldbuilding lore sections too

[solar tendon]

that will probably go into stuff like that

War of the immortals is also a sourcebook

but we haven't seen much involvement in the narrative event so far from noticula (from what we know) so it's more like likely to be in the new general deity and religion book

[limber comet]

https://vxtwitter.com/paizo/status/1781026931804189110?t=n9Zb1znMfrn45I98pCd3Gg&s=19

https://vxtwitter.com/paizo/status/1781026930319319520?t=wZQle84SYSy9ZozlHJz4ww&s=19

I think this is a good change

[turbid dagger]

is it bad that the depiction od a bastard sword duelist fighter excites me more than dragonkin

[limber comet]

No

Everyone here enjoys pf2e for different reasons

[charred patrol]

oh, hey, dragon fear

[echo briar]

x rank, 3 actions
Take a second turn immediately after this one```

My group is arguing if this is broken of useless

[frank crystal]

I really want to adapt the undine from dungeon meshi

[solar tendon]

I don't know if it's exploitable enough to be broken but it definitely has uses I think

[frank crystal]

A sentient glob of water that pressurizes itself to launch itself at targets at high speed

Acting as a living bullet

[solar tendon]

kinda depends how you run it though. lots of questions

[solar storm]

That seems both doable and and interesting challenge

[frank crystal]

The obvious thing is just like, a 2 action dash a 60 feet line and deal damage to targets in that line

With maybe some extra stuff of ranged attacks and flight

[warped orbit]

man, Spirit Barbarian Raging Resistance is hilarious against enemies doing split damage

since it resists all damage against undead, it applies separately against multiple types

[eager mountain]

who is darjermube?

[solar tendon]

SOT Book 4 Spoilers ||A fourth Old Sun God, who iirc got trapped mid apotheosis thousands of years ago. You can help her complete it during the events of SoT book 4||

||Alongside the orginal three gods of the rising, setting and noon sun, she is a lioness goddess of eclipses||

[limber comet]

Spirit barb is something I never think about

I'm a flavor first guy

The thing that comes to mind is an Belkzen orc who fights against The Whispering Tyrant's army

[turbid dagger]

Spirit Barb is slowly becoming my fave

Of the instincts

[warped orbit]

Spirit is pretty cool
if you are fairly sure you'll face undead at least

[solar tendon]

you dont really need to, since you always get access to both negative and positive

like its best against positive weakness enemies ofc but its still just good reliable barb damage

[turbid dagger]

Fun fact
As worded you can also just choose to do weapon damage still

iirc

While raging, you can increase the additional damage from Rage from 2 to 3 and change its damage type to negative or positive, instead of the damage type for your weapon or unarmed attack (choose each time you Rage).** If you choose to deal negative or positive damage**, your weapon or unarmed attack gains the effects of the ghost touch property rune...

[solar tendon]

only question is if you get 3 damage if you dont choose a damage type really

[turbid dagger]

So even against a clockwork your doing more damage than a fury barbarian
Which is as funny as it is sad

[solar tendon]

which means that stops being true past level 7

[turbid dagger]

I am personally inclined towards it still being 3 damage, since the instinct spec damage increase does not specify any weirdness there, but I would not complain if a GM ruled it was 2 damage

[solar tendon]

it says if you use spirit rage

and grammatically the additional damage and the type change are linked but that doesnt really give rai ofc

[turbid dagger]

Oh hmmmmm

Then yeah I'm actually inclined towards it being 2 and not getting the upgrade

Which is very sad but!

Fair

[solar tendon]

still only losing 1 damage at best to get much more versatility than the other energy instincts though

[turbid dagger]

Still a damage increase you can rely on against soulless things

[solar tendon]

compared to elemental or dragon where if something is immune to that type youre fucked

[turbid dagger]

And its all worth it when you run into a zombie dragon or something
And just get to go ham

Or a ghost with its awful fort saves
And you just shove it in a locker

[young chasm]

just noticed the immunity is 24 hours

and it targets each creature

meaning you can pop this in the morning and give your allies immunity to it for the rest of the day

which i think is very funny

[unborn rain]

You wake up from bed and are like "I'm so fucking bad ass and cool" and your friends are all terrified

[sinful gyro]

Clears most negative conditions?

Just keep taking turns til they go away

Also good with fast healing

There's also probably some infinite damage in there, maybe using a kineticst aura or something

[solar storm]

It’s a ranked spell so it’s probably limited to boosted damage not infinite

[sinful gyro]

Ah cos spell slots

True

[sudden lark]

Is there a way to get a drake or a wyvern as an animal companion?

[unborn rain]

There's a riding drake companion

https://2e.aonprd.com/AnimalCompanions.aspx?ID=77

It's uncommon though

[sudden lark]

Oh gotcha

I was looking for an equivalent to the drakewarden ranger.

[unborn rain]

Ranger has animal companion feats but they're kinda bad. For building one, you're probably better of taking the beast master dedication.

As Ranger gets all their companion upgrades late compared to every other class in the game. And the only feat Beast Master actually takes away is your level 2 one. Otherwise any feats you put into it, are ones you'd otherwise be spending anyway for the ranger feats to upgrade your companion

[sudden lark]

Gotcha!

[limber comet]

Abadar has a holiday called Taxfest

[unborn rain]

Radical anti-Abadar cultists corrupting him using a horrifying economic system known as "laissez-faire capitalism"

[limber comet]

Abadar is funny bc a lot of people go "ewww capitalism god" when he's really just the god of civilization

With all the good and bad that brings

Also you're probably forced to actually listen to your citizens if an Abadar church is around

The priest might kick you in the balls if you don't

[light gyro]

"we live in a society" - Edicts of Abador, 1:13

[light gyro]

Magus.
Starlit span gets no bonus from arcane cascade: :(
Starlit span doesn't have to spend a turn going into arcane cascade so now I can recharge faster: :)

[fossil temple]

yaaaaay
Dragonborn :3c

[rustic cape]

They do that’s why they’re partying

[heavy mesa]

Abadar is arguably the God of Cities

[unborn rain]

well not arguably he is, he's just also the god civilisation

hmm actually the whole civlisation doesnt seem to show up in the new player core version of him

Nope I'm stupid it does

[eager mountain]

He’s also Steve gods in starfinder

With abadar corp

[clever cobalt]

That will forever he funny to me

[light gyro]

so sad gorum died of ligma

[clever cobalt]

Who the hell is Gorum

[light gyro]

goruma balls

[echo briar]

You know, making characters for playtest classes sucks

Like, I got the idea for a firefighter exemplar, but I have no clue if the final version of the class will actually support that

[silver geyser]

Should be able to

[echo briar]

Well, if I want to use a fire axe, will there be any different weapon ikons that fit better?

will titans breaker be changed to work better with a one handed weapon, or will it highly encourage me me to go two handed? What if I want to use a fire hook? Barrows edge is not thematic, and noble branch kinda sucks

but both of those could be changed

[paper inlet]

https://vxtwitter.com/wywuzz/status/1780597877078921452
Plate armor includes a helmet
So I got a helmet for her
:3

[echo briar]

Oh, and probably the most significant from a character concept point, will I need to use light armor like the playtest, medium armor, or will there be an unarmored option?

[solar storm]

I mean, any GM who allows playtest stuff is gonna allow some respeccing if the class changes on release

So just don’t sweat it until Oct

[solar tendon]

you're not wrong though

just not really anything that can be done abt it

[surreal basin]

I personally just don’t allow playtest classes in full games

[sudden lark]

People celebrate paying taxes in PF?

[unborn rain]

Worshippers of Abadar do

[sudden lark]

🥴

[unborn rain]

and people in places with large scale abadar worship

Abadar is the god of comerce, cities and civilisaiton. Taxes are an important part of that dealio

[sudden lark]

Makes sense

[unborn rain]

It's also a way of getting the people collecting the taxes, and paying the taxes in the same room. Part of the celebration is discussing ilke what people think the tax should be spent on

[sudden lark]

Cool

[unborn rain]

it's bit like a city council meeting but a party

[sudden lark]

So they also have political representation?

[unborn rain]

Not neccicerally I think. Like a place with nobles might still celebrate it and still have the discussion but at the end of the day the nobles decides or something

[sudden lark]

Ohok

[carmine egret]

Gotta find out Absalom's tax laws

[clever cobalt]

I think the LO Absalom book may actually discuss this

But I could be wrong

Also to be fair Abadar is about prosperity, so some of his followers are pretty egalitarian and nice

Though on the flipside they can also be massive capitalist assholes

Anyways, I do wonder how dangerous the Wandering Orc Rovugug God will be

[unborn rain]

Abadar is a god who doesnt neccicerally care how you do things

As long as you follow the rules whatever they might be, work hard and are prosperous he's good on you

[fossil temple]

skull helmet Fucks
Great work!

[warped orbit]

The skullmet

[barren cipher]

oh god the little hinges on the horn openings

[paper inlet]

Those open too

Making the armorer repairing it after encounters have nightmares

Or just use a mend spell tee hee

[trail nova]

Shout out to the Chain and Vault, southern Taldan cult focused on Prosperity Gospel

Just massive assholes

[clever cobalt]

Never heard of them, though I'd believe it

[trail nova]

One of the enemy factions of book 4 of War for the Crown.

[clever cobalt]

Neat

I kinda wanna play that AP (in 2e) but alas

[rustic cape]

What was Aragorn’s Aroden’s tax policy

[frozen hatch]

About to play in a 1e campaign and I need help picking what armor to go with. I have 100 gold to work with and only a 10 in dex so any suggestions?

[thorny berry]

What class?

[frozen hatch]

Antipaladin

(Rest of the party is fine with this and the gm was the one to suggest the class)

[thorny berry]

scale mail and a shield, probably.

[frozen hatch]

I was going to go 2 handed with a melee weapon

But shield might be an early requirement.

Would the penalty from the shield stack with the penalty from scale mail?

[worthy stump]

The armor check penalty? It does stack, yeah

[frozen hatch]

Never really played a paladin/antipaladin before. In fact never played a character with less than 14 dex before so only having 10 is a new and weird experinece.

[thorny berry]

Scale mail is probably still your best bet, the other +5s are mostly just more expensive so they can have a better max dex bonus

[surreal basin]

Oh 1e

Yeah armor check

[rustic cape]

The armor check penalty? Yes.

[frozen hatch]

I'll be honest, me and friends were planning on playing Final Fantasy D20 which is built off of pathfinder 1e with PF1E equipment and feats being compatible. That's why I said I was playing 1e because essentially I was playing a spin off or fan made expansion to it. The antipaladin isn't far off from what I plan to play as the official class is called Dark Knight which is essentially shadow/Dark counterpart to Holy Knight aka Paladin. The archetype I was going to play was called Blackfrost Sentinel with both several of the abilities of the dark knight and blackfrost sentinel benefitting from having high charisma.

https://www.finalfantasyd20.com/classes/base-classes/dark-knight/

https://www.finalfantasyd20.com/classes/base-classes/dark-knight/archetypes/blackfrost-sentinel/

I had a 20 point buy to work with and my stats were going to be 14 str, 10 dex, 14 con, 14 int, 10 wis, 16 cha. This was why I was curious about armor since I've never played with just 10 dex and honestly have no idea what I'm doing.

[worthy stump]

Oh, nice. I have friends who’ve played and enjoyed FFd20. Never played it myself though

According to them, the power level is quite a bit higher than base PF1e

[frozen hatch]

Indeed which is what I felt comfortable with the current stat array at first but once I started trying to get equipment (stuck with 1st level starting gold due to plot reasons) that I am starting to have "buyers regret" of sorts.

Any advice or help?

[frozen hatch]

Been stuck as a forever gm for a while and jumped at the chance to actually be a player in a campaign and now stuck unable to actually decide and stick to a decent build.

[silver geyser]

Find a meeme you enjoy.

[worthy stump]

strength builds just take a bit to get off the ground armor-wise, unfortunately. the heavy stuff is all very expensive

[frozen hatch]

The idea of a frost knight seemed pretty neat but my indecisiveness and self doubting is making me feel like this idea would somehow be a failure to launch.

Might try and look over at red mage but weary of being even more MAD.

For reference regarding red mage
https://www.finalfantasyd20.com/classes/core-classes/red-mage/
https://www.finalfantasyd20.com/classes/core-classes/red-mage/archetypes/

Any suggestions if I go the red mage route instead?

[frank crystal]

any good magic items that keep a weak NPC alive?

From any level

[barren cipher]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2110

that uh cloak or necklace that picks you up and runs you out of combat

[worthy stump]

anything that casts sanctuary on you could help too

[barren cipher]

ablative armour plating

[frank crystal]

I dont remember the name unfortunately but I know what yuou're talking about

[barren cipher]

high level mutagens

wand/scrolls with wall spells if you can use them

5th level dimension door scrolls

that said if you’re low level it may be cheaper to let you get killed and resurrect you

[frank crystal]

Nah this is for a group that has access to high level stuff

But the person they’re trying to protect is just a basic noble stat block

[barren cipher]

resurrect 7th is only 600gp

[frank crystal]

That is pretty economical

[barren cipher]

you can just kill them, cut their hand off and smuggle it to wherever you’re going if you’re able to pass the ritual checks

[frank crystal]

That’s pretty grim

[barren cipher]

raise dead is also 600gp

needs to be soon after death and you need the whole body but always works

they are both uncommon though

generally speaking i think you probably have to go in an extradimensional space or a really tough vehicle or something

[echo briar]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1320 This can bring them back from the dead and get them out of the way

[surreal basin]

Thanks for introing me to this system

[barren cipher]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=939 this seems helpful

[frank crystal]

Oh that’s neat

[frozen hatch]

You're welcome I guess.

[echo briar]

what about a polymorph effect? turn them into an ant and have them hide in like a sack

[surreal basin]

I like FF and Pathfinder both!

[frozen hatch]

The power level is a bit higher than base pathfinder just as a heads up

[limber comet]

I was looking at Pathfinder Infinite

I found lobster ancestry

[frank crystal]

Crustacean

[limber comet]

https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com/product/477550

[limber comet]

I'm trying to brainstorm my own pf2e setting

Besmara is a core deity, and I still want an event similar to Earthfall to happen

[unborn rain]

So assumedly lots of Pirates

[limber comet]

Yesss

I think I'm gonna keep quite a few nations from Golarion overall

Cheliax makes for a good all around adversary for every swashbuckling scoundrel

[unborn rain]

Cheliax is like perfect for golden age of piracy vibes

[limber comet]

I'm also keeping Geb and Nex but making it into a continent

I'm just taking what I think is interesting

[unborn rain]

based

[limber comet]

Waiting for the Tian Xia world guide so I can STEAL

Wanshou and Shenmen

[eager mountain]

https://youtu.be/H79M7JCmBI0

[rustic cape]

Animist is so cool

[eager mountain]

so I got the first book of wild wood

and theres a fucking crtyptid in there

THE FUCKIN BEEEEEE MAN

https://tenor.com/view/malcolm-hal-gifleuse-abeilles-guêpes-gif-25567971

[true delta]

Amazing

[clever cobalt]

spoilers

Has the player's guide not come out yet?

[unborn rain]

We just did a Rodeo and didn't even think about betting on ourselves

[frozen hatch]

Besides rapiers what's the best weapon to use with weapon finesse without having to spend a feat on EWP presuming youre proficientin simple and martial weapons?

[barren cipher]

shortsword is pretty stacked

daggers and star knives are also quite good

[limber comet]

Cryptids getting featured more in pf2e is so good

[limber comet]

What would a dragonblood leshy look like

[turbid dagger]

Thre's a dragon-esque leshy in fistful of flowers no

Lemme try and find them

Middle right here, I ain't redownloading FoF just to get em by themselves lol

[silver geyser]

Yeah, the snapdragon

Dandy Lion is still a top tier pun

[rapid wagon]

guys, hit level 2 on my kineticist