Pathfinder

[sinful gyro]

For those who don't know

They're this

Slime jellyfish is core

[clever cobalt]

They're the jellyfishes from Mass Effect

[sinful gyro]

We really want the focus on starship combat to be about the PCs and what they're doing. One thing that really sucks in the current rendition is that you set-up an intricate battlemat and only one player gets to move the starship.... focusing on the PCs and providing more actions and ability to interact with the combat is really important to us. Also, making it not feel like a vestigial / side game that you sometimes need to pull out.

Yes

That's like, why ship combat always sucks

Good they know 😛

[clever cobalt]

I can definitely see why it'd a tricky thing to do

[solar storm]

Gooood choice

[clever cobalt]

Hopefully it's better in SF2e

[solar storm]

It's extremely hard to make RPG vehicle combat work in that style

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

Also hopefully we get SROs 👀

[sinful gyro]

We are

But not core

[clever cobalt]

Oof

Fair enough

[sinful gyro]

They make sense to have their own book imo

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[sinful gyro]

Like the same book you add mechs and stuff

[clever cobalt]

Like Guns and Gears but SF2e

[sinful gyro]

Ye

[solar storm]

What's an SRO?

[turbid dagger]

In Fragged Empires the ship is a seperate character sheet everyone shares, and everyone plays a role in ship combat, iirc
And kingdoms are already kind of like that design wise
I think that would be a fun angle

[clever cobalt]

it would alos make sense for the Nanocyte and/or Evolutionist to return in the same book

[warped orbit]

they are like, undead IIRC?

[clever cobalt]

Sentient Robot Organism

[solar storm]

Oh does it not stand for something?

Ah thanks

[clever cobalt]

They're robots

even more robot than Androids

huh Soldier is a CON class

didn't know that

[warped orbit]

yeah they are Con KAS

and area weapons use your class DC

[clever cobalt]

interesting

Wonder if they're gonna get Legendary in that, like the Kineticist

[warped orbit]

though one of the "subclasses" for Soldier lets you also make an attack against one target in the burst

or maybe it was a feat?

don't quite recall

Soldier seemed pretty neat at least, but we'll need to see the rest of the system too

Envoy I liked the focus on a more martial support class, but wasn't entirely sure about it yet

[clever cobalt]

also SF2e is gonna have Foundry Support at launch

[warped orbit]

makes sense

the Foundry support for PF2 is amazing, so I'm not surprised they extend that to SF2 as well

[sinful gyro]

It would be foolish for them not to do it

But I hope their foundry team gets more staff and cash

Like even if the rule systems are cross compatible, it's still gonna be a ton more work

[clever cobalt]

Soldier Feat

[rustic cape]

Someone on the SF2e team remembers Reboot

[turbid dagger]

Its their Class Gimmick like spellstrike or hunt prey
They designate a Primary Target and if they're included in an area fire they also get shot at with the single target version

[warped orbit]

that's a big area

[worthy stump]

the solution is clearly to have every player ship be able to split apart into multiple vehicles like a zord 😌 /j

[frank crystal]

What does area five mean?

[warped orbit]

it's a property some weapons have in Starfinder

when you Area Fire you don't make attack rolls, you just designate an area depending on the weapon and enemies inside it have to make a Reflex save

[fast hill]

the only rpg vehicle combat I have liked was in t2k, where it was cool because you got to be in a vehicle and usually it was 1 person driving, 1 person shooting with the rest on foot

but I think if you did nothing but play it, it would get boring really quick

[light gyro]

There's a teacher in the strength of thousands ap that's a literal tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist, and since I started that late-pandemic-lockdown I decided to downplay that as much as possible lul
Guess I'm not the only one who doesn't find wacky conspiracy theory stuff fun any more

[frank crystal]

Ah neat

[turbid dagger]

I remember him yes

[solar storm]

Yeah that sounds like it avoids the worst problem

[turbid dagger]

Tinfoil orc dude

[solar storm]

Which is everyone on board the same large vehicle

Since there's 4 ish PCs and usually not 4ish important things to do

[turbid dagger]

Flying
Guns
Boarding
Uhhhhhhhhh
Cheerleading

There we go, there's the player roles for ship combat

[frank crystal]

I mean genuinely engine room stuff is important and a pretty solidified trope

[solar storm]

It's also really really boring

In mechanical terms

[fast hill]

yeah in t2k it was gunner, driver usually

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I was about to say
Like yes that's a thing, and its a thing a lot of 'everyone has a role on the ship' games do
But its not Interesting

[frank crystal]

Fair

[solar storm]

Yeah engineering is often important but in mechanical terms its mostly just "rolling to be a good engineer" every turn

If a game made it into a more complicated subsystem it'd be better

[turbid dagger]

Realistically you roll like
Wrench Turning and if you roll a 1 go 'GACK'

[light gyro]

Ever played captain sonar? Now that's an engaging four-man crew system

[fast hill]

and it was cool because it wasn't something you did often and wasn't always vehicle-vehicle combat, so you were shooting at dudes and giving your allies covering fire and stuff

I think starfinder 2e could really benefit from ground vehicle rules over starship rules tbh...

that would be a really interesting design space

[turbid dagger]

PF2e already has ground vehicle rules

[fast hill]

okay but you cant mount an APFSDS 120mm on your horse drawn wagon

like give me the inventor class but it's the mechanic and gets a technical

that would go HARD

[light gyro]

You sure can. Use it? Maybe not

[turbid dagger]

I would be surprised if there was not a vehicle with a gun

In pf2e

[fast hill]

it would be like the summoner's eidolon customization but for a kick ass vehicle

paizo hire me

[solar storm]

I could see that in SF2 maybe but I think it'd be too clashing with dungeons

for PF2

[fast hill]

yeah

I hate dungeons...

unrelated

just wanted to put it out there...

[light gyro]

I remember years ago when wotc tested some 'modern' spells including one that let you summon a demonic car. Shame they never did anything with that cus that's hilarious

[turbid dagger]

Having checked, there's a surprising dearth of weapons with built in attacks, but several are noted to be armed with cannons and ballista and such, and say to use the statblocks for those siege weapons when making attacks with them

[sinful gyro]

So for compatibility, the goal is that the game systems (both PF2E and SF2E) remain compatible at a rules level. This means that you should be able to run a PF2 character at an SF2 table, and vice versa. It also means that a GM should be able to pickup a creature from either game and not need to redo some math (looking at you Grapple rules from 3.0 to 3.5). These should just work "out of the box" and allow access to a variety of different rules between the systems.

HOWEVER, one thing that we're trying to be clear about in all this, is that compatibility does NOT mean balanced.

SF2E is its own game with its own meta. A meta that focuses on ranged options and more easy access to flight. A good example of this, is comparing a 1st-level PF2 party to an SF2 party. A typical challenging encounter for a PF2 party would be against a group of goblins, which would be a fun encounter. That same encounter would be much easier to an SF2 party, who would probably gun the dogslicing wielding goblins into the dust before they closed the distance!```

[light gyro]

Replacing all the pf2e enemies in an AP with sf2e equivalents and calling it Hard Mode

Mr Beak is now Packing Heat

[solar tendon]

kinda wanna try pf2e with vehicle combat free archetype

like everyone's either a mechanic, trick driver, siege gunner, etc

impossible lands+ has a motorbike archetype which is pretty cool

[fast hill]

its confirmed, starfinder 2e characters are stronger than pf2e characters

[light gyro]

Depends on how they can handle being in melee range I guess.

[frank crystal]

I’m still a little confused how crossing over content from each system works though

Like creating a solider who gets the fighter archetype

Presumably from what they’ve said that would work but it does seem a little vague

[solar tendon]

the like

underlying framework isn't changing

so you can still do that because classes still get the same amount of class feats that work in the same way

there's no mechanical barrier to doing so

[frank crystal]

Alright

Also yah that statement is fair

The systems are compatible but not balanced for one another

still gonna run finder 2e though

[light gyro]

Sf2e campaign with a free archetype for any pf2e dedication because the crew are also LARPers in their off-time

[sinful gyro]

You all get zapped with the Picard Trama Flash Back Ray and pick up pf2e archtypes

[surreal basin]

I’m not gonna lie as someone who really liked SF1E spaceship combat I’m sad that it’s probably just gonna be like

A victory point esque thing

[sinful gyro]

We don't know what it'll be like

[surreal basin]

That’s fair it just seems like they really don’t wanna go with it being like

A combat system?

At least that’s my read on it

Which I know people don’t like starship combat for reasons I can’t really get but I loved it

[solar storm]

It sounded like SF1 wound up with some pretty good rules for it

It's just such a design headache I can see why they might not want to do it

[surreal basin]

It’s also like

Universally reviled by the fan base lol

People really hated ship combat in 1e

I think I’ll be satisfied so long as whatever it is has the same in depth ship customization

[echo briar]

I'm just wondering how much class design from one system effects the other. Will SF2 shy away from something thematically similar to the summoner because PF did it, despite the fact that the PF summoner might not be very balanced in SF? will PF shy away from an envoy like class because of the SF envoy?

[surreal basin]

Seemingly yes

[echo briar]

The good news is that the mechanic and the technomancer seem to be delayed for reasons entirely unrelated to the inventor and the wizard.

[surreal basin]

They’ve already said they made the operator different from rogue in space because they did it already

[echo briar]

well, that was mechanically

[surreal basin]

Ohhhh

[clever cobalt]

Sounds like Operator is gonna be the DPS class ala fighter

[surreal basin]

Idk

[clever cobalt]

At least to me

[echo briar]

Yea, I'm talking how close can they be thematically.

[light gyro]

They should make spinoffs until they're forced into designing incredibly niche core classes. Real "full of magic bees" type stuff like Heart

[echo briar]

I think all starfinder classes should just be pathfinder classes with the word "techno" added

techno fighter, techno druid, techno inventor

[warped orbit]

very curious how Solarian is gonna turn out in SF2

[sinful gyro]

They said they're sticking with attunment but wanting to go a bit broader

Still just light and dark

[echo briar]

from the play testers, kinetisist ish

[surreal basin]

Unironically think that them doing another thing LIKE starfinder would be cool

Branch into another genre/game type, do some weird shit

Like starfinder as in the original starfinder, a weird one off alternate thing they did that ended up getting a bit of support

[echo briar]

Findfinder, the most meta TTRPG

[limber comet]

Streetfinder

It's a modern fantasy

[echo briar]

rockfinder. Stone age game

[surreal basin]

That’d be sexy

[echo briar]

Protonfinder. A ttrpg that takes place 2 seconds after the big bang

[limber comet]

Rockfinder would go so hard I'm ngl

Though tbf you could probably just reflavor current 2e

[sinful gyro]

Glassesfinder: The Velma Story

[echo briar]

Keyfinder, a musical TTRPG

alternatively, keyfinder, a kingdom hearts colab

[limber comet]

No

Terrible

[light gyro]

Grugfinder

[limber comet]

Not bc KH is bad or anything I just don't want pf2e anywhere near Disney or Sqenix

[light gyro]

I WANT SEPIROTH'S STAT BLOCK

[fast hill]

this would honestly go so hard

not like, urban fantasy but give me guns and dragons

[limber comet]

Nah, urban fantasy but like, not fully. Like, not entirely set in a city or something but like, it's relatively analogous to our world

[fast hill]

I mean urban fantasy works

but like... lean into it being both modern and fantasy

no "veil" or masquerade

[echo briar]

Interesting question, is there any external franchise you do want them to work with?

[fast hill]

adventurers still exists but they have like, guns

[light gyro]

Maybe it's just WotC handling MTG that's poisoned that well for me but I'd only be happy with strictly stuff in the same fantasy vein as pf

[limber comet]

That's a tough question, I...honestly don't know

[light gyro]

get ryoko kui to write an AP, optionally set in the dunmeshi setting

[echo briar]

Pathfinder teams up with a historical drama that takes place at the same time earth is at in the pathfinder universe

[limber comet]

Oh hm, maybe like a One Piece rpg done by Paizo would be cool but like, DFs are rough to translate without going "each class is x devil fruit or haki mastery or based off of this character explicitly"

I dunno lol

This is a tough question

[echo briar]

I think the dark crystal could work

[limber comet]

Oh maybe

[echo briar]

Labyrinth I think has potentual as a oneshot

[limber comet]

Most of my crossover ideas would just be official porting of ideas from the franchise over to pf2e

[echo briar]

What about the other way around?

If they weren't compeditors in the TTRPG space (and UB was better), I think a MTG would be cool

[light gyro]

Discworld??? Discworld....
Probably impossible tho and I understand why

[echo briar]

I think a TV show could work

Edgerunners kinda proved it could work

[limber comet]

Porting of the ideas from pf2e to other mediums? Hmm

I think a tv show centered around the iconics would be cool

[light gyro]

What if they remade the d&d movie beat for beat but with the names changed and also chris pine is a goblin

[limber comet]

Just for Chris Pine as a funny goblin? 10/10

[surreal basin]

That’d be cool

A non-human or extremely human looking main character would have been neat

[tough barn]

no way paizo can afford a tv show unless they do a Critical Role-level kickstarter lol

[frank crystal]

is there anyway to search by spellcasting for creatures in AON?

[turbid dagger]

hm
Try putting a tradition name in " " when searching
"divine"
"primal"
etc
You may get some misses but that should get you most of them

[frank crystal]

thanks

[echo briar]

A normal studio could buy the rights

[frank crystal]

So I think I’ve got an idea for like, a proper incident for my next session

Last session ended with 2 things, the ritual materials to make an anti god (a man made god in my setting) and the players pinning the crime of murder on the current captain of the guard

This means that there’s highly sought after magical material and internally the guards are dealing with a sudden lack in leadership

I think what I’m gonna do is have an undead villain group I’ve been meaning to establish show up to try and steal the materials by causing a fight downtown to distract people while they do a smash and grab

[eager mountain]

Hmmm

[limber comet]

That would get funded incredibly fast let's be real

Paizo may not have a CR level following, and there are plenty of cranky old grognards that would be like "errhhhh too woke, there's one person with a skin color other than ghostly white" but majority of Paizo's fans would be hype as shit

Including me!

[turbid dagger]

....Critical Role is more popular than Paizo? Like, the company?

[solar tendon]

yeah probably

[turbid dagger]

hhhhhhhhhhhhhuh

Odd
Another one of my Blind Spots I guess
I don't really know what CritRole like
Is
Other than A Really Popular Actual Play(?)

[solar tendon]

it's um

now got an amazon produced animated series

[turbid dagger]

I See

[limber comet]

It's very, very popular

Like, extremely popular

Even though c3 is kinda mid to bad I'm ngl

[surreal basin]

It’s as popular as a dnd live show will be

[limber comet]

Anyways the ideas for a pf2e tv show are probably either like

An anthology about the iconics

[turbid dagger]

just adapt the entirety of age of ashes

[limber comet]

Or a one and done 3 part module

No

Honestly, considering how popular it is

Probably Abomination Vaults

Each "book" is like 4 episodes

[turbid dagger]

Abom might have a dearth of Plot at points but hm maybe

[limber comet]

Well it's probably the most appealing to audiences outside of the Paizo community

[solar storm]

I think Extinction Curse would work better in a show format

[limber comet]

Mm maybe

It's a bit longer which is why I was like ehhh

[rustic cape]

The complaint I hear about Extinction Curse is that it’s two completely unrelated plot lines

[warped orbit]

the circus stuff is more a preamble AIUI yeah

[solar tendon]

circus ppl go on a dinosaur? adventure rather than circus adventure

[turbid dagger]

I'll take dino adventures over circus ones I will admit
Extinction Curse seems REALLY cool from what I've heard, so long as you accept that its not ACTUALLY a circus adventure

[warped orbit]

the circus is just the intro ,and then you get roped into the whole thing with the Xulgath

[turbid dagger]

Its less the impetus for adventuring and more something to fight for?

[solar tendon]

and adventuring party theme

[turbid dagger]

I do like the idea of playing a Nice Clown
Like they do it as their profession because they want to make people laugh and not because they're a Creepy Clown
A non-american clown, if you will

[solar tendon]

namekian clown

[turbid dagger]

What class would a carnival clown be.....
They are very athletic, with all the physical humor....

[fast hill]

my favourite AP is Hell's Rebels but I don't think that would work well as a show

actually it might work perfectly as a show

[rustic cape]

A friend who played EC said their party was divided in half between the people who didn’t really care for the circus part and the people who didn’t really care for the dino part

[frank crystal]

So I’m expanding a druid NPC and I’ve made them a wereboar

[strange nest]

Swashbuckler, Rogue, and Bard seem like the obvious choices, though there’s nothing stopping you from putting a clownish spin on whatever class you want

Clown Champion to a deity of comedy

Clown Barbarian

[turbid dagger]

My SOT character is leveraging his unexpectedly high Athletics score for charity work and is now fighting for his fucking life

[frank crystal]

Did you only take athletics for the eidolon?

[turbid dagger]

Yes

He used Evolution Surge to bulk up Kaineghis for the work (it has become a Known Thing in the city that a fucking Cornugon Devil is going around doing charitable works for the temple of Mazludeh for some reason) but was encouraged to take part himself too

And now everyone is Praising Him
And his Doomed condition is ticking up as we speak

[frank crystal]

Oh god why lol?

[true delta]

By "fighting for his life", did you mean the Doomed condition or how he feels overwhelmed by being asked out?

[turbid dagger]

The Doomed thing is a joke
He has terrible self-confidence issues and being hit on is Too Much

[frank crystal]

Ah

Ngl I was thinking he actually somehow got the doomed condition

[eager mountain]

Ethereal Wildlife are creatures that don't just live in the mortal Universe, but also flits between there and the Ethereal Plane. The scientific illustration below features a Ghost Ape, who have the ability to teleport or phase out of the mortal Universe.

Two of the creatures featured in pictures are the Ghost Ape and the Rift Chameleon. Both of which are Ethereal Wildlife. Ghost Apes have an ability called a "Ghost Stance" which lets it phase out, not take as much damage, conceal itself very well and jumpscare you. If it takes force damage, it flops back and locks it into the mortal Universe. The Rift Chameleon is one of James' favorites, and is Small and can swallow any number of creatures into its extradimensional gullet, which leads to the Ethereal Plane. The crew's notes about the Rift Chameleon note two of the members playing a prank on the chef, who didn't know the Chameleon has a literal bottomless stomach.

Envoy will also get "floating skill feats" they can switch in and out with their Adaptive Talent ability (featured in the Field Test).```

[surreal basin]

You guys ever heard about Iobaria

It’s

The funniest region

[turbid dagger]

Why?

[surreal basin]

So it’s history

Is like

Every 100 years

Their society is annhilated by some like

Random plague

And it’s just really funny to read like 2 bullet points on a timeline and then “everyone died to the plague that makes you an ooze”

And there’s just no reason why it’s like that

[turbid dagger]

lmao

[surreal basin]

Example

1900 AR The centaur tribes of the Caemorin unite under the banner of Errindayn the Seer, sacking Mirnbay and destroying numerous humanoid settlements.
1986 AR Errindayn the Seer dies mysteriously after an unnaturally long life. The centaurs of the region abandon their warlike ways.
2108 AR Mirnbay refounded and defenses significantly reinforced. Centaurs barred from the city for more than 400 years.
2500s AR Centaurs allowed back in Mirnbay.
2546 AR Ohjar's Plague kills a third of all male centaurs, orcs, and humans across the land in a mere 8 months.

[turbid dagger]

It's like galt but older and less compelling

[surreal basin]

So imagine this

Like

6 times

And now there’s basically nothing there

[eager mountain]

info on the new solarion

[light gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/resident-evil-vendetta-resident-evil-vendetta-gunfight-chris-redfield-vs-glenn-chris-redfield-gunfight-chris-redfield-vs-glenn-arias-gif-4983116247939541975

[unborn rain]

I misread that as like, "Pathfinder combat is based on Paths, whilst starfinder is focused on range"

[eager mountain]

https://i.gifer.com/PtS.gif

[eager mountain]

ah reptoids got the boot

fair

[solar storm]

Help help my Abomination Vaults party won't stop calling Mr. Beak Mr. Beast

[warped orbit]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1161695831775248426/1225626831261007893/hyc9nqyrfx4b1.png?ex=6621d0ef&is=660f5bef&hm=f9c9a077e008227546581b2e9d33a49d008f1b4e64cde8f7c03733fd5b25f913&

[barren cipher]

have you considered having mr beak kill them

give him his vampiric touch back

[frank crystal]

Who is Mr Beak?

[solar storm]

no this is later in ||volluk's workshop|| he ain't got any arms

[turbid dagger]

||Infamous first floor boss in Abomination Vaults||

Notably has higher level spells slots than an NPC of his (high) level should have
Bizarrely
Like Rank 3 Phantom Pain or something???

Actually I think its rank 5
As I remember it dealing 6d4 damage in my game
This used to be Vampiric Touch!
A death effect!

[frank crystal]

Holy shit

What level is this encounter?

[turbid dagger]

Okay its is level 3 Phantom Pain
But Beak is level 3 himself
And you get rank 3 spells at 5

So he's a PL+2 boss with a PL+4 single shot spell

[frank crystal]

That’s fucking wild

[light gyro]

Just succeed lol

[warped orbit]

Phantom Pain at least is a much less bad spell than Vampiric was

[solar storm]

Update: ||Borbo has been returned to life!||

Animist is a really interesting class

[surreal basin]

Oh shit you have someone actually playing one？

[solar storm]

Yeah!

(Abomination Vaults spoilers follow)The ability to ||bring a spirit back into its body actually came up in a big way this session because they had the soul gem and found Borbo’s body||

So through a difficult ritual were able to ||break the bonds of the soul gem in a controlled enough fashion that Izanami (the party Animist) was able to “catch” the spirit and return it to the body (which I had ruled was only “dead” because of the missing soul)||

Now I need to stat up ||Borbo, returned Goblin||

[turbid dagger]

||you ruled the pickled gob body to be intact? Nice||

[solar storm]

||intact enough that in conjunction with a flood of positive energy from the wood kineticist it could come back yeah||

Basically a ||roll-your-own semi-resurrection ritual haha||

I think I’m gonna ||stay up Borbo as some kind of sorcerer or something to reflect his misadventures||

[turbid dagger]

Nice
One of my gang worships a psychopomp usher so they just smashed the soul crystal as soon as they learned what it was

[fast hill]

I need a rennovated version of qhallaqh manor for blood lords

[fast hill]

fellas the skull fairy has annihilated my party

I don't know what to do I think this might be joever I played the skull fairy too mischievously

one of them was a skeleton, the skull fairy attacked them and ripped their head off (while this is a lethal manuever I made it a non-lethal one for the sake of funny bone man)

they did infact kill and rip the head off of one of the other party members before leaving

I also had them kill Arghun the Annhilator

😭

[fast hill]

LMFAO

[eager mountain]

My party keep doing this

[fast hill]

MISTERRR BEAK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_fwJ912-pU

[carmine egret]

jesus

[stuck bane]

First combat for the outlaws game happened tonight! I got one shot by an unlucky crit from a cop while we were running away, but the party’s beast of champion managed to pick me up on the way out

Before that nearly every enemy felled was felled by the champion getting a crit

[solar tendon]

we successfully talked all the civilians down in the bank

[stuck bane]

We went in during the night

[solar tendon]

honestly can't remember why we even went during the day haha

oh wait

[stuck bane]

Gunslinger also decided to steal a bunch of loan documents while we were there

[solar tendon]

it was cause we got drunk before considering the implications on our ability to do the job that night

oh that's smart

[turbid dagger]

Abomvaults stuff
Doing the meeting with the mayor after ||Deadtide||
Our Rogue specifically asked what was the most expensive thing in his office
Also some writing I've been workshopping for the last week that I am very proud of

[turbid dagger]

Oh nooooooooooooooooooo
My group entered the second floor via the docks
||And went straight into Graulgust's throne room and made him mad||

There are now 3 level 2s, one level 4, and a level 3 bearing down on our four person level 2 party
I've hinted they should run but they are preparing buffs 😨
This will be interesting

[warped orbit]

oof

yeah they should strongly consider running

[turbid dagger]

They are smart cookies, they will
But they may lose a character first because these MFers are fast
I'm gonna have the Morlocks break off the pursuit ||at the water room, as Freznelkesh will interrupt them||

If someone genuinely does go down and gets left behind I'll ||put them with the osprey gang||

[turbid dagger]

They have now considered doing a chokepoint
||They don't know that Morlocks can stack 👀 ||
But I think they've settled on running fortunately
One of the players felt frustrated because they didn't quite intend to trigger the encounter, which made me feel a little bad
They went south cuz they thought that was the direction the team wanted to go (the tracks the team wanted to follow were actually heading east but they missed that)
And the rest of the team followed them cuz they were taking the lead and by the time we were all like 'uuuhhhh hol up the team wanted to go east right' they were already talking to ||Graulgust||
So there was a bit of miscommunication but I think it will result in a net positive for the game
As running from the morlocks will be a fun beat

Its wild that if you go in thru the docks you can just ||stumble into the Zone Boss||

[carmine egret]

Maybe an odd question but does anyone with the relevant books know if there are particular encounters in Abom Vaults that would be significantly changed by swapping to the Monster Core statblocks? I assume that nothing has had their Level altered but I know that some have very different abilities

Specifically thinking of how there are a lot of ||ghouls||, which I know got some changes

[solar tendon]

when we have a lg priest in our scoundrel crew but it's okay because her edict is to fight corruption, and acab

well not lg anymore

good riddance to lawful and alignment

[solar tendon]

is inventor the only martial that doesn't get a reactive strike or equivalent?

base reactive strike/AoO is fighter, barb, champ, swash, magus

rogue gets reactive pursuit at level 4

thaumaturge doesn't get a feat but gets weapon implement

[warped orbit]

Rogue also gets Opportune Backstab

[solar tendon]

warpriest gets divine rebuttal

gunslinger doesn't get anything

kinda closest is leap and fire at level 8

investigator doesn't really get anything in the level 4-6 timeline

but is arguably not a full martial or w/e

monk gets stand still

ranger gets disrupt prey

summoner gets eidolon's opportunity

so it's just guns n gears fuckery?

I was thinking it might be they didn't want construct inventors to get a reaction strike on a minion but summoner gets it only on their minion-equivalent

maybe clockwork celerity is meant to be the equivalent

[solar storm]

I have been dealing with this a bunch lately and I don’t think much changes

Biggest one I’ve seen is that ||Mr. Brake’s surprise 3rd level spell changed again||

[warped orbit]

oh what is it now?

[solar tendon]

had our best OoA session so far

I finally did the unexpected sharpshooter thing. I missed

felt a lot more outlaw-y too

gently pressed a shopkeep for information

took a tram

got chased by cops

broke into a house

[solar tendon]

is there a magic item to give a companion magical attacks?

like ik they don't get potency and striking

[carmine egret]

When you say "dealing with," is there any awkwardness or hitches? At least for Foundry, idk what format you're using

[solar storm]

I am using foundry and it’s been a little weird since some stats have updated and some have not

[carmine egret]

ah I thought that might be the case

[turbid dagger]

Hmmm
Trying to think of which class to play next
Will have a chance to make a level 10 char soon so thinking on what classes get cool subclass stuff at the mid levels

Maybe it's time for my taw launcher stab and blast slinger

[turbid dagger]

Also thinking about Zombie Spirit Barb with Brutal/Furious Bully, Crushing Grab, and Ravenous Charge

And Thrash!

[limber comet]

Are the undead archetypes like

Actually good, outside of flavor

[warped orbit]

it varies

ghoul is pretty good I believe

zombie is also good, though can screw you a little if you're unlucky

ghost is not great from what I hear

[frank crystal]

Oh huh, is there no archetype for being a lycanthrope?

[warped orbit]

not so far I think

play beast-kin I guess

[frank crystal]

Huh

I always thought there was

[turbid dagger]

There is one coming in howl of the wild, dont worry

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

[warped orbit]

I do like that Howl is gonna have an archetype for using natural weapons

hopefully it's finally gonna make all those claw attacks more viable main options

[frank crystal]

Gonna make a Minotaur who’s a werebull

[limber comet]

I mean that's good considering ghouls are the most interesting lorewise

At least in Golarion

[warped orbit]

oh also because I forgot to mention it
lich is fine, but maybe a little disappointing depending on what you expect from it

[limber comet]

Is Vampire good?

[warped orbit]

it's... okay

but the Sunlight vulnerability is really brutal

[frank crystal]

Lich does kinda suck in the sense that liches are extremely powerful mages and the archetype isn’t really a direct buff to casting power but like

You already need to be a spellcaster of some kind to get the archetype

So it’s probably fine

[echo briar]

skill feat, lvl 1
Requirements: trained in deception
You recognize that hope alone can have a very powerful effect on ones ability to fight off disease. You may roll a deception check instead of a medicine check when you take the treat wounds exploration activity, and may use treat disease even if you are not trained in medicine``` How does this look? I'm thinking of making a higher level version that gives you a deception battle medicine

[frank crystal]

Anyone have a good song for a heavy metal lich?

[warped orbit]

you'll need to special case being able to use the higher DC versions of Treat Wounds as well

[solar storm]

I will say though I haven’t had any balance hiccups or anything because of it

[turbid dagger]

I've settled on Dueling Sword Swashbuckler
Cuz of Bleeding Finisher 👁️
Braggart Style, Fearsome Brute off rogue archetype
I'm very sad that Swash does not get Disarming Twist because I am fascinated by that feat but

I figure I can open up fights with Battle Cry, lean on Finishing Follow Through and Your Next to keep Panache up
Tumble Behind to give me a backup if demoralize doesn't hit

This is DUMB

[clever cobalt]

Tian Xia soon

Iirc shipping should start today or tomorrow, so keep am eye out

[sinful gyro]

Nice

Hope it's good

[clever cobalt]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianxia

Also found out about this, incidentally

also I forgot Makapatag and Ashley both worked on it

[sinful gyro]

Ye

I know some folk over on the pf2e reddit/discord are heavily invested in it going well

[clever cobalt]

as am I :V

[strange nest]

Man, bleed is cool

I think Darkest dungeon got me hooked on red droplet icon with big number

even if you can’t really stack consecutive bleed effects in pf2e

[sinful gyro]

🩸

[strange nest]

Though if there is one bleed effect that should stack, it should probably be Twist The Knife

or have it provide some other benefit if the target is already taking persistent bleed

[strange nest]

My honest reaction:

[sinful gyro]

I gotta play some more DD2

[carmine egret]

Might have sold a future player on Kineticist 😎

[fossil temple]

You just reminded me i Need to deal with the eye boss from DD2 somehow

[strange nest]

Fucking focused fault

[fossil temple]

As far as it seems you need to put a tank, someone to heal the tank and abuse stealth/hidden on everyone else

So is basically a DPS check with a 'do you have the hidden abillity for the entire class?' check

[fossil temple]

Now
Rogue with Bard archetype?
Pure Rogue?
Or even Pure Bard?
Questions

[solar tendon]

just found out stairs are difficult terrain when moving up them???

[sinful gyro]

Huh lol

I'd rule they aren't even if GM core says they are

[warped orbit]

That makes sense to me I guess

Since most other ways of gaining height are also difficult terrain or worse

[sinful gyro]

Like I get why they are, but for most people, they would assume stairs means "vertical progression without downside"

To compare to ladders, climbing, etc

[warped orbit]

Funnily you'd probably still need to Climb a ladder

[fossil temple]

I mean makes sense
Have you tried running up and down on a stairs? (don't)

[sinful gyro]

For sure

[warped orbit]

It would just be a very low DC

[sinful gyro]

It's just easier

[fossil temple]

Now I would argue that if you get knocked down on a stairs you would receive extra damage and be pushed down
Ergo:

https://tenor.com/view/yoshi-dead-death-mario-stairs-gif-25001313

[sinful gyro]

Only going up them is difficult

Down is fine

[warped orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/john-wick-4-fall-stairs-gif-10023029565514394388

[solar tendon]

I mean I don't mind at all stairs being difficult terrain

I'm just annoyed that that's tucked into a corner of gm core

[fossil temple]

ROLL FOR SLIP /j

[solar tendon]

and that I only found out because of the wheelchair rules

which like along with it I'm pretty sure being difficult terrain for a creature to move through a space it doesn't perfectly fit in (like a large creature in a 5 ft corridor) and yet I can't actually find that as a direct rule anywhere

its frustrating

if a game has mechanics it should tell you about them

[sinful gyro]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=2372&Redirected=1

IIRC it's under squeeze

This action is for exceptionally small spaces; many tight spaces are difficult terrain that you can move through more quickly and without a check.

But could also be elsewhere

[solar tendon]

I don't

really consider that a direct rules reference is the thing

but yeah that is why I'm under the impression about it being a rule

[sinful gyro]

Personally though, for things like this, I don't think you need to memorise that it's difficult terrain to move through a small space. It's a reasonable assumption

[solar tendon]

I mean

[sinful gyro]

You don't need to have all rules to hand at all times

[solar tendon]

for many people the reasonable assumption is that large creatures can't move through 5 ft corridors at all

[sinful gyro]

I don't think that's the case, but it's up to the GMs judgement

[solar tendon]

that is. my point?

[sinful gyro]

Like either way you rule it, the game still works and you adjust around it

[barren cipher]

it should tell you, yeah

the main strength of pf2 is that is generally tells you these things

[solar tendon]

I mean it was a huge nerf to cavalry characters and directly discouraged people playing them due to a rules misconception

[sinful gyro]

I guess my point is, even in cases where it doesn't or you can't find where it does, you can still make do with reasoable assumptions

[fossil temple]

Cavalry characters are so rare and yeah i agree, is just another negative in wanting to play one

[sinful gyro]

Or replace reasonable with, whatever the GM rules on

[solar tendon]

like for. literally years the common knowledge is that in a general campaign a medium cavalry character is impossible to play because dungeons exist

which is silly if the game is not even making that statement at all

[sinful gyro]

In that case though, if it was an issue for your table, I'd just allow it anyway?

Sometimes games are bad or wrong

Like it's an issue that it wasn't clear to folk to the degree that it caused problems

And folks shouldn't need to homerule it

But I think it gets kinda silly if folk then stick by that ruling when it's obviously not working

[solar tendon]

realised it's part of level 8 advancement for them

[clever cobalt]

No Godsrain this week

Everyone else is up for grabs

(Still announcing it next tuesday)

[echo briar]

Well no godsrain hint. There is still presumably a prophecy

Also no hint? that seems like a hint for Norgorber

[surreal basin]

Yeah there’s still a prophecy just no hint

[surreal basin]

Why? It’s in a core rulebook and is clearly a ruling

But also, unfortunately there just

Aren’t gonna be exact rules for every scenario

This is one of the scenarios where it’s not like…. Exactly spelled out, if that’s what you meant, yes

This is ruling people are referring to, afaik there is no more specific ruling

[solar tendon]

because it's in the body of an entirely different mechanic

like

[surreal basin]

Fair enough I guess
Unfortunately it’s all there is

[solar tendon]

unfortunately indeed

[turbid dagger]

So what is actually the reason for getting high/standard/low grade silver
Surely there must be a mechanical benefit for spending 9856 GP extra for a high grade silver sword over a low grade silver sword

[solar tendon]

uh they limit your property rune cap

oh

actually no I think they limit rune capacity in general

so a low-grade item can't hold a rune that's higher than 8th levelhttps://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=3191

[turbid dagger]

ack?????
So its just like
'hey are you higher level'
'fuck you'
'more money same effect'

[solar tendon]

yeAH pretty much

make a sword out of steel? it can be crappy and have infinite capacity to hold magic

[barren cipher]

basically the exotic property of steel is 'first-rate capacity'

[turbid dagger]

I wanted to give my level 10 swash a silver sword for aesthetics more than anything else but fuck that lmao

I will take the like resist 4 on devils or something

[barren cipher]

i think it's a worthwhile investment

[light gyro]

Has anyone gotten a lot of use out of weapon materials?

[barren cipher]

yes, they're great

but silversheen is cheap

[unborn rain]

All non-magical forms of materials are level 20 I guesss

[solar tendon]

yeah like it would have to mid-grade just to take the +2 rune you're meant to have at that level

[barren cipher]

having a cold iron weapon and a bit of silversheen covers a lot of bases

for some reason the cold iron weapon coating scales in cost

and falls off after 10 strikes or a (scaling) duration

[turbid dagger]

I ain't paying almost 1000 gold for like
Barely anything
I will spend that on a impactful rune which will be useful all the time and also help me brute force past resistances that silver might bypass

But yeah I'm currently working on my swash's Super Fancy Custom Sword because every swash needs one

Settled on a +2 Striking Thundering Impactful Dueling Sword named 'Belle Aspis'

[barren cipher]

yeah silver is a pretty weak resistance and a bad vulnerability in a world with silversheen

(silver salve, now)

[surreal basin]

wow I didn't know about the like

rune capacity thing

I thought the benefit was more hp and hardness

[unborn rain]

What's really cool about pathfinder 2e is that most of the really bad rules that no one likes are hidden in paragraphs no one reads so you never have to use them

[surreal basin]

LMAO

Yeah it sure seems that way

[warped orbit]

on unpopular rules
do y'all let non casters use spellhearts?

[surreal basin]

… are they not supposed to be able to

[warped orbit]

RAW no

since it is the Cast A Spell activity

[surreal basin]

…. But it says you can use the casting modifier of the spellheart if you don’t have one

So the RAI is that you can use it

[unborn rain]

I thought it was the opposite, that they're explicitly allowed

[solar tendon]

it's the same activity as a wand

[warped orbit]

nope, it never actually says it anywhere explicitly

[solar tendon]

so you technically need to trick magic item unless you have a spell list which the spell you're trying to cast is on

[warped orbit]

though yeah I do agree that they seem fairly clearly intended to be able to be used by anyone

[surreal basin]

Dumb note

The cast a spell action doesn’t

TECHNICALLY

[warped orbit]

since there's also a bunch of flavor text mentioning spellhearts as useful for people without magic

[surreal basin]

say you need a spellcasting feature to use it

;3

Anyway yeah I let non-casters use it but I’m also a gigantic freak when it comes to item rules

[unborn rain]

You need it prepared or in a reportoire

[surreal basin]

Ah shit once again

The item activation rules

Are nearly entirely worth ignoring lmao

[solar tendon]

it came up yesterday because

[surreal basin]

Wait

[solar tendon]

now you have to look at the spellcasting rules themselves to know spells are always verbal unless specified

[surreal basin]

Do you also need a spellcasting feature to use basic random items that let you cast spells

[solar tendon]

it depends on the item

[warped orbit]

if they use the Cast A Spell activation you do

[surreal basin]

Dumb and bad

[warped orbit]

if they use Envision or whatever, you don't

[solar tendon]

we were in a sandstorm amd realised that meant spells were banned

[surreal basin]

Like I said tho I’m generally an extremist when it comes to how items work lmao

[surreal basin]

Oh?

[solar tendon]

cause it makes you hold your breath

[surreal basin]

Ahhh

[solar tendon]

it was fun tho

[surreal basin]

Hey technically you can choose to cast a spell and then instantly suffocate :3

[solar tendon]

I couldnt command my companion

yep!!

[surreal basin]

Anyway airbubble is a really crazy good spell

[unborn rain]

I managed to get away with using bite attacks that entire fight without anyone saying anything

[solar storm]

Oh that’s nasty, I’ll keep that in mind

[solar tendon]

if draig's barabarian hadn't kill the enemy I was going to resort to commanding my construct to push the enemy of the tram we were on with my last breath

[solar tendon]

....waITTT

[unborn rain]

:3

[solar tendon]

I mean theres like a damage die step in it

[warped orbit]

bite attacks don't RAW make you lose more than normal breath technically 😛

[unborn rain]

It's a damage die up and 2 extra damage from rage

[surreal basin]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1438&Redirected=1

[solar tendon]

oh yeah ragee

[unborn rain]

But if I remembered about pushing I could've done that

[warped orbit]

Air Bubble is useful to have for stuff like that yeah

[solar tendon]

I love all the reaction spells

[surreal basin]

If you cast air bubble when YOU can’t breathe, you only lose your breathe…. As the air bubble envelopes you

Meaning you’re safe to use it

[solar tendon]

mhm!

[solar storm]

Yeah air bubble is a great “emergency scroll” imo

[surreal basin]

My party’s wizard once ‘ruined’ an encounter with it

[solar tendon]

ooh

put it in a scroll robes

[surreal basin]

Had a wizard who didn’t give a shit about his mob, cast cloud kill in the missile of a big melee

The wizard air bubbled the party members so it like

Only hurt his guys

[solar tendon]

ohhh

[clever cobalt]

what are spellhearts?

[surreal basin]

Which was incredible

[solar tendon]

thats awesome

[unborn rain]

That's great

[surreal basin]

They’re like talismans that let you cast spells

[solar tendon]

and arent consumable

[surreal basin]

And the intent is that non-spellcasters can use them

Because they come with their DC and Attack Mod

For their spells

[solar tendon]

especially now that tradition profiency isnt a thing

[barren cipher]

i assumed that they decided late in the process that no, this is too op

[warped orbit]

which is funny, because the most OP of the spellhearts still works anyway

[barren cipher]

and i can sort of see that, martials are good enough already without getting stuff like zero investment ranged options

yeah they're actually not far off being cost effective for just the passives in some cases

[warped orbit]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2235

Doorknob jumpscare

the level 10 version causes a no save Blind on crit

[surreal basin]

Idk, it’s not like they’re gonna be very good at it tho

The spellhearts have p low mods iirc

[barren cipher]

they aren't great but not great is better than nothing

[surreal basin]

I get the idea tho

I just don’t think it’s actually concerning lol

[barren cipher]

i mean it's like the usual spellcaster-into-martial creep

where if you're a good enough wizard you can be a fighter

just the other way around

[solar tendon]

taking a real martial option is like

both much cheaper and much more effective?

and they give bonuses to weapons n such for a reason haha

[barren cipher]

i dunno, the resists are pretty cheap and also it's hard to get stuff like imprecise scent and whatnot

and then there's the occasional phantasmal doorknob

[surreal basin]

Oh wow

At first I wasn’t sure what the issue was, dazzled is good but not broken but wow, blinding on a crit is crazy

[limber comet]

The god dying this week will be

Uh

Jesus Christ

That's my prediction

[barren cipher]

i thought that was last week?

[sinful gyro]

It's an on going sacrifice

Namoleon: Rovagug (Shelyn)
Emily: Iomadae
Gabriel: Abadar
Alaizia: Iomedae/Torag
Starduster: Sarenrare
Alaen: Iomedae (side bet, by Arazni)
Gkathellar: Rovagug
Halo: Sarenrae
Cyan: Zon-Kuthon (cos lies) 
Mourge 40k: Lamashtu

Here's the predictions I got so far

[solar storm]

Missing mine

Zon-Kuthon and they lied

I don’t trust the safe list

[limber comet]

Nah JC will come to Golarion and try to spread love

Only to get backhanded by like, idk

Asmodeus

Or Lamashtu

[fast hill]

JC would destroy any golarion god

[limber comet]

True

I'm just being funny

[fast hill]

JC would whip abadar for having merchant temples

[limber comet]

But fr yeah JC would probably be on Baba Yaga's level at least

[solar storm]

Jesus powerscalers when mfs with iron chariots appear

[limber comet]

Jesus just turns the other cheek

[solar storm]

(Not sure if those are in Golarion really… maybe in Alkenstar?)

[limber comet]

Also wdym by iron chariots

I like

Genuinely don't know

My bible scholar knowledge is lacking

[solar storm]

https://www.biblestudytools.com/judges/1-19.html#:~:text=19 The Lord was with Judah and enabled them to,those people had iron chariots.

[limber comet]

Huh

What does that even mean

[solar storm]

It means iron chariots are more powerful than God, clearly

[limber comet]

Also that's fascinating

I guess!!! Lmao

[clever cobalt]

(By iron chariots they mean Main Battle Tanks, obviously)

[surreal basin]

I have a weird encounter rolling system and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to calc the odds of it triggering an encounter

[fast hill]

the M1 Abrams is more powerful than god

and I know some pf2e characters who could destroy an M1 Abrams

[surreal basin]

which is that each time the players move their allotment for the day, they roll for encounters, somewhere between a d4 and a d12 depending on area safety. They need to roll the maximum value or higher to get an encounter. for each roll that does not trigger an encounter, the next roll gets a cumulative +1
some areas have multiple rolls per day that can potentially trigger multiple encounters

[solar storm]

The maximum on the die I assume?

I feel like I’m missing something it seems pretty straightforward for looking at 1 day

Where it’s 25% for a d4 and 8.3% for a d12

And with each +1 you just multiply those odds appropriately

Trying to figure out encounter odds for a week of travel is trickier though

[surreal basin]

Yeah that’s what I meant

Is like

For multiple days of travel

Or a day that has multiple rolls

[eager mountain]

https://twitter.com/donatoclassic/status/1777409888865710496

Luis Loza (@donatoclassic) on X

Typical roleplay moment in #pathfinder2e

Twitter · Apr 8, 2024, 6:55 PM

[turbid dagger]

I had a conrasu cleric of sarenrae in as an NPC in a game recently, that was fun
Earnest Praise was his name
They converted their temples flower garden into a community garden to feed the poor
Sarenrae gives him succor but others are not so fortunate

[silver geyser]

Oh, to add to this list, I still have my going theory of Lamashtu

[barren cipher]

that would be very convenient honestly

[silver geyser]

And upset things in the Abyss too!

Imagine every demon lord trying to snatch up Godly power.

[solar storm]

I am mildly skeptical of this if only for Lamashtu's new lore in PC1

But I was also thinking it

[silver geyser]

It's also nice to cut the god who goes "Certain things must be evil!"

When the setting is very much moving away from that.

[solar storm]

Lamashtu is also moving away from that in PC1 but yeah

[surreal basin]

oh man I'm reading the starfinder alien archives

and a great early arc to an adventure would be the velstracs showing up to a planet and doing a mass effect 1 intro to it

[clever cobalt]

Are those the Shadow Demons?

The torture loving guys

[surreal basin]

yeah the cenobites

[clever cobalt]

Them yeah

They play a big part in that one horror AP for SF1e

Signal of Screams iirc?

[surreal basin]

I think so yes

I just love the idea of velstracs like

rocking up to a colony, turning on the jammer, and going hellraiser on some motherfuckers

[clever cobalt]

Don't they also exist in PF2e?

Or at least an equivalent

[ionic pier]

I'm kinda stuck on what attribute spread to give a PF2e character I'm working on
She's a warpriest cleric of Sarenrae in a Pirate campaign, kinda like a ship's priest/missionary

[clever cobalt]

Oh nice

[ionic pier]

I'm considering getting some charisma for diplomacy

[surreal basin]

they do, yeah

they're a paizo original so they';re in everything

[clever cobalt]

...anyone else ever get kicked from games without warning?

Cause I just found I'm banned from a server I joined last week without anyone talking to me about why

[surreal basin]

oh that's

wild

[clever cobalt]

Yeah it's uh

Weird

[surreal basin]

I'm sorry dude that sucks

[ionic pier]

oh that's shitty

[clever cobalt]

They seemed like cool folk

Which makes it even weirder

[ionic pier]

These are the 3 I'm stuck switching between

[clever cobalt]

It was a custom Absalom game too

Not an AP

Oh well, I guess I'm back looking for a group again :v

[ionic pier]

F

[surreal basin]

maybe ask someone to see if it was a mistake

just in case

[clever cobalt]

Banning is hard to do by mistake and not notice

[ionic pier]

Yeah the 0 justification thing is kinda weird

[clever cobalt]

The closest thing I can think of is like

Not being very active on the server?

[ionic pier]

I mean even for that it surely wouldn't illicit a ban

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[ionic pier]

maybe a warning and a kick?

[clever cobalt]

Regardless it's weird

And a bit sad but I'll get over it

Oh well, not much to be done about it now

Anyways

[surreal basin]

unrelated

my party wizard got allfoods recently

and is obsessed with it

[ionic pier]

reading the description of it

bland, gooey substance seems like the least appetizing thing ever

[silver geyser]

But eating a rock is rad

[unborn rain]

Ancient Wizard using their supreme magical power to transform 256 bulks worth of goods edible

[surreal basin]

Well

Eat a padlock

As long as a lock isn’t built into an object you can bypass it

Eat a door

Eat a trap

[silver geyser]

Eat a wall

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Shit like that

Although at some point it does transition to a structure lmao

[solar storm]

When this sort of things happen I always get paranoid it was a private GM freakout and they deleted the server without telling anyone

[clever cobalt]

Nah, I got the "you're banned from this guild" thing when I tried to join the server again

[silver geyser]

Oh

[clever cobalt]

as opposed to "invalid link" or whatever

[solar storm]

I think it’s worth asking about

[clever cobalt]

I may, just feel nervous reaching out

[solar storm]

That’s fair but you don’t have a lot to lose and banning people with no explanation is pretty lame

[turbid dagger]

Ive been banned from HERE by accident before, fwiw

Like it does happen

Tho in that case winged near instantly unbanned and reinvited me
And either way, you ought to be informed about why

[solar storm]

yeah

[eager mountain]

https://fxtwitter.com/legalizegoblins/status/1777747871858909527

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sepulchre/sepulchre-a-gothic-pathfinder-2e-expansion

[solar storm]

ooh

[clever cobalt]

Not enough good third party stuff for PF2e

always glad to see more

[eager mountain]

I mean to be fair this is being avertised by the lead editor.

[clever cobalt]

I know, but still

[echo briar]

I've been getting into dune and thinking about characters. Why are all the desert deities evil?

[unborn rain]

racism

[echo briar]

That may be a legitimate factor lol

[unborn rain]

Generally the desert god is associated with Fantasy Arabs of a setting, and fantasy arabs are generally a collection of racist stereotypes

[sinful gyro]

Whatcha mean by Desert Deities?

Oh in pathfinder? duh

[echo briar]

gods of the desert

[sinful gyro]

I thought you meant the gods in dune

[echo briar]

nah, dune was just the inspiration.

The idea was wormcaller cleric, but apparently I also need to be a cleric of the undead

[sinful gyro]

Yeah it probably comes from like, racist misinterpretations of myths from Arab cultures?

[barren cipher]

i assume that no small measure of it is that deserts are known to kill you in lots of exciting ways

and the basic principle of 'life good, death bad' is fairly universal

[clever cobalt]

Where even are the deserts in Golarion? Garund? Casmaron?

[frozen hatch]

So a friend is starting up a ffd20 campaign soon (ffd20 is built off of 1st edition pathfinder) and I know this probably isn't really the place to ask this but was curious if you guys could help me with one thing. The class and archetype I chose has an interesting feature at level 5 that I have copied below but since pathfinder equipment is used with ffd20. What weapon(s) would you suggest I consider using to get the most out of this? I considered bastard swords but what else might be good to use? Spears of some kind?

Heavy Weaponry (Ex)

At 5th level, a judge magister treats all weapons as one size category smaller for purposes of determining whether or not he can wield them in one hand and if they are considered light weapons.

[barren cipher]

my understanding is that arabic traditions have no shortage of evil spirits who hang out in deserts and ruins and such, although not all such spirits are necessarily evil

[echo briar]

Theres also a bunch of other non arab religions with deserts

Like, at minimum, "god of surviving the desert" should be there

[sinful gyro]

For desert locations

[barren cipher]

i think this is 'whatever you would normally use but one size category bigger' right?

[frozen hatch]

The archetype is based on thr judges from final fantasy 12 who wore heavy armor and dual wielded weapons. I did consider a bastard sword but another person recommended considering the scimitar and or orc butchering axe. I was curious what else might work best with this abilitj?

[warped orbit]

scimitar is always good, for the crit range and multi

generally AIUI crit stats are slightly more important than raw dice, since you accumulate a lot of damage through other means anyway

[worthy stump]

well, depends. are you gonna be dual wielding, or do you want something even bigger to two-hand?

[frozen hatch]

Well I know if I stick with normal bastard swords since they'll be treated as smaller then wouldn't they be light in that case which would help with TWF. But I could make both sized for large creatures for more damage at the cost of some synergy with TWF.

I know I was thinking more or a str build tbh.

[barren cipher]

seems like one-handing a nodachi or falchion is a better deal than a large scimitar

[worthy stump]

yeah

if you dual wield, i'd recommend going nodachi/falchion for the main hand, or something with reach

and then for your off-hand, a rapier or scimitar would work well

or a falcata, if you can get your hands on an exotic weapon

[frozen hatch]

I jokingly considered some kind of spears to dual wield but dismissed that idea.

[worthy stump]

while it would be silly, a whip and spear/polearm combo could actually do pretty well, since you'd have reach on both of them, haha

[barren cipher]

light is pretty significant right

[worthy stump]

it is yeah

reduces the two-weapon fighting penalties by 2 across the board if your off-hand is light

so if you have the TWF feat and a light off-hand, it's just a -2 penalty to your attacks

important for Dex characters as well, since it determines whether you can use Dex or not for the attack roll, and affects the feats that give you Dex to damage

[frozen hatch]

I can't find the stats for the nodachi and why that weapon if you don't mind me asking?

[worthy stump]

https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Nodachi

mostly, 18-20 base crit range with a solid damage dice

as i recall from my 1e days, a higher crit range is generally the best way to go for improving your DPS when choosing a weapon

[frozen hatch]

Ah I see and since we're starting at level 3 I won't get heavy Weaponry for a while but once I hit level five instead of two handing I can just one hand this instead along with another or smaller weapon.

I'll check with the gm to see if the nodachi will be okay to take and if not you said go falchion?

Hmmm....

[light gyro]

where's muh dead god

[solar storm]

I don't... think this is true

Especially with the biggest desert-themed deity being Sarenrae haha

[sinful gyro]

No dead god today

[surreal basin]

Oh I thought they just weren’t doing a hint

They just

Decided to do 9 instead of 10?

[sinful gyro]

I thought they said we weren't gonna get one at all

But maybe I'm wrong

[surreal basin]

P sure they just said they weren’t doing a little hint thing yesterday

Like “this gods name has two syllables”

That they did for the others

[unborn rain]

They said no hint, not no god

[surreal basin]

[clever cobalt]

When is Winged gonna give me Tian Xia

[light gyro]

ough, sobbingh, i crave dueath

[unborn rain]

huh?

[light gyro]

(of a god)

[true delta]

For how long have y'all been speculating about which god will die?

[surreal basin]

Since they announced one would lmao

[sinful gyro]

Yeah pretty much

Namoleon: Rovagug (Shelyn)
Emily: Iomadae
Gabriel: Abadar
Alaizia: Iomedae/Torag
Starduster: Sarenrare (Rovugug)
Alaen: Iomedae (side bet, by Arazni)
Gkathellar: Rovagug
Halo: Sarenrae
Cyan: Zon-Kuthon (cos lies) 
Mourge 40k: Lamashtu```

Here's the prediction list

[clever cobalt]

My secondary guess is Rovugug

[echo briar]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6t129?The-Godsrain-Prophecies-Part-Ten#discuss

dead god today

Kinda felt like this was how they would end it.

[light gyro]

[clever cobalt]

welp

[sinful gyro]

No way were they gonna kill him

[echo briar]

Honestly, I’m surprised they didn’t give a prophecy to abadar. It’s almost certainly not him, but his death would be interesting

[solar tendon]

funny how the post-death description is like "this would cause a war of immortals, but uh not this one"

[sinful gyro]

Namoleon: (Shelyn)
Emily: Iomadae
Gabriel: Abadar
Alaizia: Iomedae/Torag
Starduster: Sarenrare 
Alaen: Iomedae (side bet, by Arazni)
Gkathellar:
Halo: Sarenrae
Cyan: Zon-Kuthon (cos lies) 
Mourge 40k: Lamashtu
Pennywen: Torag

[solar tendon]

anyway I'm gonna make my official guess Torag

for no particular reason really

[clever cobalt]

Honestly the prevelance of Saranrae in this one makes me think it could be her

but I may be reading too deeply into it (on top of bias)

[solar tendon]

it's pretty natural

she led the fight the last time around too

[clever cobalt]

though our guesses for Rovugug were sorta correcT?

the aftermath was what we guessed it would be, mostly

[surreal basin]

slamslamslamslam iomadae

[clever cobalt]

One of my home groups ended up creating a little prayer before eating a meal.
"Rovagug-gug, thanks for the grub." And then they would proceed to absolutely devour everything.```

from Luis

[surreal basin]

thyey're announcing the real death on tuesday right?

[sinful gyro]

16th ye

[clever cobalt]

yep

on a stream

[sinful gyro]

And all the stuff for the AP

[solar storm]

I think that's a good guess he's been coming up a lot in recent dwarf-stuff

[light gyro]

the goz-reh prophecies.,....

[echo briar]

There’s been a lot of gozreh hints ngl

[surreal basin]

i still think the entire ray safe from a purely out-of-setting standpoint

[solar storm]

Yeah I think Gozreh dying would be a really big deal for the setting

A lot of these would be but that'd be BIG

[solar tendon]

I feel like torag is unusually like. ancestry specific for a core good too I guess

[echo briar]

Plus, we just got a bunch of nature in RoE

[solar tendon]

not exclusively but like

[surreal basin]

yeah a friend of mine mentioned

[solar storm]

I concur I think Torag is the only specific race god in the core 20?

[solar tendon]

it would be less weird if there was like "the elf god" etc

[surreal basin]

if gozreh died the newly free elemental gods might take the mantel fully

[solar tendon]

like sure there are some elves that have their own way of worshipping calistra etc

[echo briar]

Like if the books are tied to each other like they often are, then Torag or Gozren connect to recent books the most

[solar tendon]

but torag is dwarf zeus

[surreal basin]

yknow I never thought about it but yeah torag being core is weird as hell

[sinful gyro]

Sun dies: Dwarf takes week to notice

[solar storm]

My Zon-Kuthon one is not a shitpost because I think there's a lot of stuff with the dark tapestry being mentioned

[echo briar]

Torag is also the god of craftsmen and defensive war

[surreal basin]

I'd be mad just cause i would hate if they marked him safe as a lie

[sinful gyro]

I think they could break the marked safe cos prophecy is dead, but it'd still be a dick move

[echo briar]

Every smith will say a prayer to Torag, as will every civilian in a siege

[surreal basin]

I really don't want any part of this to like

feel like a trick

[unborn rain]

I think it'd be really lame and probably not worth the bad will it'd cause

[warped orbit]

yeah

[unborn rain]

I hope some part of it is a trick but in a fun cool way instead of a "We lied to you without any way for you to know"

[solar storm]

That's my thinking with prophecy offline and all of the "safe" ones being wrong prophecies I'm a little 🤔

[echo briar]

Zon-Kuthon dyes in WotI

Goes blonde

Shelyn assumes it’s a good thing, but it’s actually a ploy to disappoint her again

[unborn rain]

Zon-Kuthon goes blonde (double evil)

[clever cobalt]

Gozreh is the nature god right

so if he dies shit goes haywire

[echo briar]

for a bit at least.

but there are 12 elemental lords now to take control

[solar tendon]

mm

[light gyro]

alchemist rolls worst crit, asked to leave the dungeon

[echo briar]

They may not get along, but that also kinda replicates Gozreh's temperament

[surreal basin]

Oh my god

[echo briar]

Lamashtu is the only god not mentioned in any prophecy. The other gods that weren't mentioned were mentioned in this prophecy. That could mean something

because why else would this prophecy mention Gozreh by name?

I'm not sure if thats a hint that she's dying, but I could see her being behind the prophecies or otherwise involved behind the scenes.

[sinful gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/we-did-it-we-saved-the-city-patrick-spongebob-spongebob-fire-gif-5741450845209850442

Sorry if that pinged

[echo briar]

Her lack of mention in the Erastil prophecy is particularly weird if its just a coincidence.

Like, the ultimate monster is rampaging and showing that the gods are not as selfless as they claim, and Lamashtu was silent though that?

[sinful gyro]

Eating popcorn

[light gyro]

cloak of goblinkind; guaranteed to stand out against any background

[unborn rain]

Here's the thing. You get that roll on a non-crit your even worse off

[turbid dagger]

Hmmmmm
Dang I was really banking on Rovagug
I don't really have a horse in this anymore lol

[sinful gyro]

Still got Sheyln as a back up

[turbid dagger]

Indeed! Shelyn is probably the most interesting pick in universe but as noted by others I feel it will make folks Bad Sad
As opposed to Good Sad

[solar storm]

If they kill shelyn I’m ending my subscription ngl

(I probably won’t but I’d be mad)

[limber comet]

Damn, my guess was wrong for Rovagug

Also Hei Feng dying in the prophecy :[

[barren cipher]

well they'd better make whoever they kill good then

[surreal basin]

…. Like good the alignment or good as in cool

[clever cobalt]

People will be mad regardless

[barren cipher]

cool

alignment is so 2023

[surreal basin]

People would be upset in an extremely specific way

If a member of the ray died

[clever cobalt]

I mean yeah

doesn't mean people won't be made regardless

[silver geyser]

Imagine you make the lesbian polycule canon

And then you kill off one of the members of it.

[clever cobalt]

I'm aware

[silver geyser]

I'd rather they kill off a problematic element.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I'm chatting with someone else and
Lamashtu would be a safe pick but also a wicked boring and transparent pick
If they did that it'd be solely to get rid of the Gross Bestiality Pregnancy Mental Illness Is Evil God
Which like, good
But you could just retcon her out paizo, no need for a world event, no one would blink

[clever cobalt]

Yeah, agreed

[light gyro]

strength of thousands spoiler
||haha they're gorna die||

why does a giant woerm have NO INTIMIDATION PROFICIENCY

[barren cipher]

i would think it would be better off with a fear aura or something

if it's very scary

i'm not sure worms are sophisticated enough to try to make people back down for an advantage in combat

[solar tendon]

because a giant worm doesn't really understand psychology maybe at all

[solar storm]

Lmao

[solar tendon]

if you're not already scared just by being in the same place as the worm what's the worm gonna do though

make itself big

make itself big is animal intimidation proficiency I think

[barren cipher]

yeah if you've got the brainpower to make yourself look big with purpose (and it's scary) you probably have proficiency

[unborn rain]

Id be sure to win because I took The Titan Wrestler Feat

Worms being scary sounds more like terrifying presence rather than intimidate prof

[light gyro]

"i dont know [wizard], it's gonna take a hell of a wallop to kill this th- [crit fails against chain lightning]"

[clever cobalt]

Lmao

[light gyro]

(130 damage)

[light gyro]

wurm update: party didnt die! wizard went dying 3 tho

[surreal basin]

Wolf

*woof

Yeah sure

I think the problem is also partially that RAW unless they give an animal ANOTHER feature it can’t actually demoralize anything lmao

Doesn’t share a language

[worthy stump]

well, they can at that point, they'd just take a -4 penalty

[tough perch]

just read today's prophecy

idk who is going to die

but i think it's going to be sarenrae's fault

[solar storm]

I'm increasingly sold on the "Lamashtu is the only god not mentioned in any prophecy so its probably Lamashtu" theory

[tough perch]

not necessarily sarenrae is going to kill them, but will be the cause of their death somehow, and it will be regretful for her

[solar storm]

There's no prophetic future with Lamashtu in it

[tough perch]

~~didnt they say people will be sad about it? nobody will be sad about lamashtu dying ~~

[tough barn]

I don't know how Lamashtu dying would make War of the Immortals break out though

A war among demon lords to take power from her corpse? Absolutely

But a real god war would be on a whole other level

[solar storm]

I'm also struggling with that

[scenic patio]

That’s primarily why I don’t think it’s going to be her

[solar tendon]

they've also already released new edicts/anathema for lamashtu right

not that that's concrete or anything

[frank crystal]

Hey gamers, I need your advice

One of my players dads is back