Pathfinder

[surreal basin]

and they're balanced as far as I can figure!

[craggy thunder]

Oh my god Cobbled is awful

XD

[surreal basin]

it's only a 25% change to need to reload on a miss with Draconian firearms so I think it's reasonable

and take damage but

yknow

youll be fine

Anyway uhhhh feedback encouraged

[craggy thunder]

I like em

[light gyro]

strength of thousands book 4 spoilers
||hope my party are ready to walk without rhythm cus HOO BOY||

[craggy thunder]

big fatal definitely makes sense

[surreal basin]

[craggy thunder]

hhhh still stuck on wanting to make an academic fencer type swashbuckler

but RK sucks as a combat action lol

[barren cipher]

i think it's just mastermind rogue right

[craggy thunder]

Kind of similar ye

Though instead of off-guard you gain panache

I think an Intswash has an interesting place

especially given their near-rogue level of skill possession should they invest in Int

also

fun synergy I just discovered if you're in a dual class game

mastermind rogue and investigator

take known weaknesses as investigator

'fuck you, free action RK into off-guard'

which just

feels nefarious

even tho its nowhere near how bullshit you can be

[turbid dagger]

I think dual class for interesting combos is better than dual class for raw effectiveness
Else everyone would just be doing like
Giant Barbarian Fighter or something

[craggy thunder]

Ye!

I just so happen to have found an interesting and powerful one

combine both your precision damage gain actions into one action

funtimes

[craggy thunder]

I think this may be the most self-sufficient build I've made

You've got very good damage, though ur not super tough

and your skills and skill feats are coming out of your ears

[craggy thunder]

You are analytical and measured, taking in the way your opponents move, recalling your lessons, and waiting for the opportune moment to deliver a strike that can only be described as textbook. You are trained in Society and one of the following skills of your choice: Arcana, Nature, Occultism, or Religion. You gain panache during an encounter when you successfully identify a creature using Recall Knowledge.

Exemplary Finisher
You gain a +1 circumstance bonus to AC against the foe until the start of your next turn.```
Attempt at intswash

[trim grotto]

has anyone here played a dragon instinct barbarian at high levels?

[frank crystal]

Goddamn one of my fellow players just double crit on twin takedown

[craggy thunder]

eyyy

[craggy thunder]

Does this work or is it kind of too niche? I think it works cuz Demoralize only works once unless you take a feat

[eager mountain]

feesh

[craggy thunder]

fbish

[solar tendon]

Pretty 🥺

[turbid dagger]

Personally I feel like you can just make it a normal RK rather than identify creature?
As iirc RK's are repeatable now?
But uhhhh RKs are my rules knowledge weak spot

[thorny berry]

boy that first feat is hilariously bad

[craggy thunder]

the equivalent in mastermind insists it's identifying a creature

[turbid dagger]

Yeah even in the Rare Underwater Game I feel like you'd just be on your shark at any given moment while dungeoneering

[craggy thunder]

then again

that lasts until the end of your next turn

or for a minute on crit success

[turbid dagger]

Anyway, RK semantics aside- it looks good
My only worry is that APs are a little too liberal with the Unique tag

[craggy thunder]

such is the bane of all RK dependent features

[turbid dagger]

So you may run up on a boss you simply Cannot Get Panache Off Of
Even moreso than most Swashes

[craggy thunder]

also I just realized a fun way to twist naming conventions for the character this style is intended for

She's a tengu from Kwanlai, meaning her surname is the first name written or spoken, who's taken the Aldori swordpact

So Aldori is the name that comes first lol

[turbid dagger]

The Unique stuff miffs me so much
Just because an Annis Hag has a name doesn't mean its Unique

Its a named Annis Hag

[strange nest]

wait wtf

[craggy thunder]

I actually prolly need to change the exemplary finisher benefit

since it's redundant with parry mechanics

[turbid dagger]

Yep!!
If someone is an important dude they get unique, even if they're just a variant of an existing statblock
The one I'm talking about is a vague allusion to a certain AP (spoilers) ||Blood Lords||
||Iron Taviah in that is just an Annis Hag with some rituals||

So you know
+10 to her RK DC
Naturally
Every +1 is important in PF2e ya know!!!

[solar tendon]

I mean

that's not necessarily a rules thing

that's a thing AoN adds for convenience

[worthy stump]

it's like that in the AP statblocks too

[solar tendon]

plus it's like, yeah if you wanna know stuff about that person specifically that is much harder

but there shouldn't be anything stopping you from getting an easier recall knowledge check but only being able to get more generic information

like if you fight an orc ranger or something

it's probably a normal rk check to find out about ork things or ranger things

but it's a unique rk check to see if you know who their parents are just by looking

[solar tendon]

I'm not talking about the existence of the unique tag itself, I'm saying the actual rules are much more suggestion-y and vague than the formulaic rk dcs given on AoN

I think? I might be thinking of something else actually

[solar tendon]

but this is my point

[worthy stump]

ah, i see

yeah, it's pretty vague, which does leave it up to the GM's discretion

For a check about a specific creature, trap, or other subject with a level, use a level-based DC (adjusting for rarity as needed). You might adjust the difficulty down, maybe even drastically, if the subject is especially notorious or famed. Knowing simple tales about an infamous dragon’s exploits, for example, might be incredibly easy for the dragon’s level, or even just a simple trained DC.

[gritty void]

I recently read through ||Age of Ashes|| and found out that there's not one, but multiple occasions where they have an enemy with a unique statblock, and then proceed to make it not actually unique by reusing the same enemy later on in the book with a generic name

[craggy thunder]

What’d be a good exemplary finisher for a recall knowledge Swash?

[solar tendon]

create a weakness on the enemy maybe

[craggy thunder]

I feel like that’s kinda stealing thaum’s lunch a bit

Circumstance bonus to saves seems interesting actually

[thorny berry]

bonus to AC and saves against th- yeah something like that

though I guess AC bonus interacts badly with parry

[craggy thunder]

Yeah it was an ac bonus lmao

Then I was like ‘oh wait’

[thorny berry]

it'd be cute for them to be The Riposte Swash but riposte swash is terminally kinda screwed by bosses

and yeah RK is probably limited by like... well what if you already know what you want

especially if you're already using it to get panache since you presumably ask the important questions first

go the triggerbrand route and have your skill check inexplicably also inflict a dot or status or something

actually, sickened because you hit a pressure point or something could be cute

[craggy thunder]

lmao

Would clumsy be too much?

[thorny berry]

well, I suppose the closest comparisons are wit inflicting -2 to attacks against you and braggart re-enabling demoralize

in terms of power level

[craggy thunder]

Hmm

Then yeah too much

I’ll just have it be +2 to saves

[trim grotto]

finally joined a Fist of the Ruby Phoenix game!!

[turbid dagger]

Kickass!!!
Congrats, it seems like a really really cool module

[trim grotto]

thanks!!

just need to figure out what to play

[strange nest]

Hell yeah!

You leaning towards martial or caster?

[trim grotto]

Martial for sure, currently I'm looking at barbarian, inventor, gunslinger, and idk if kineticist is a martial but I am looking at it

[frank crystal]

Kineticist is it’s own weird thing

Effectively they’re kinda casters with a fully unique spell list and infinite resources

But that’s only in the broad terms

In practice they do kinda function on their own axis

[trim grotto]

Are they good at damage?

Cause the party is telling me they need someone who does high damage

[frank crystal]

They are pretty good at damage

[turbid dagger]

I would say kineticist is probably closer to martial in Feel than caster
And yes they are quire good at damage if built for it

They can kind of do everything

[frank crystal]

It depends on the element but they tend to be alright at the very least

[turbid dagger]

This is not an endorsement one way or another but:
If I ever get into Ruby Phoenix I've settled on Ape Animal Barb with Wrestler who is narratively just an Martial Artist Who Is Angry

[frank crystal]

I will say right now personally with a 2 action blast my kineticist is doing 2d8+8 at level 4

And that’s not going into the AOEs as well

But that’s also one build

Kineticist can kinda fulfill any role if built for it

[craggy thunder]

If you want good damage, gotta say I’m a fan of our boy the swashbuckler

barbarian sounds fun too tho

[trim grotto]

How do you play swashbuckler

[turbid dagger]

What if rogue and magus had a baby
And it really liked skill actions

Basically spam skill actions till you succeed, then lance a dude with a finisher for fuckloads of precision damage

[strange nest]

You buckle swashes

[turbid dagger]

There has been, historically, a little bit of difficulty against PL+ enemies as you need to beat their reflex or will DCs to get your finisher prepped typically

[trim grotto]

i see

[craggy thunder]

It's the Zorro (the masked one, not the one piece one) class

[trim grotto]

i think i've narrowed it down to Dragon Barbarian and Swashbuckler

[craggy thunder]

what so far has the stronger character concept?

Ruby Phoenix is the martial arts tourney right?

[trim grotto]

yeag

basically im trying to decide between sick martial arts barbarian that will later gain a dragon transformation, or duelist knight to serve as a lancer type character to the champion in the party

[craggy thunder]

duelist knight could be a very fun type

What ancestry would the duelist knight be?

[trim grotto]

i have no idea what ancestry to do yet for either idea tbh

[craggy thunder]

well if you want to do duelist knight

[trim grotto]

atm im trying to flesh out the swashbuckler idea to see if i actually like it, trying to pick a style

[craggy thunder]

fairs

[trim grotto]

what were you saying?

[craggy thunder]

I am an advocate for a certain weapon

if you wanna play a character who's like 'my dueling style is the greatest in the world, I'm going to join this tourney so I can fucking kick all of your asses and show you' then being an Aldori and using an aldori dueling sword would be a cool way to do that

The catch being the dueling sword is an advanced weapon

and the two ways you can get it down to martial proficiency are by playing either a human and taking the unconventional weaponry feat and picking it

or a tengu and taking tengu weapon familiarity, picking it as one of the advanced swords you gain proficiency in since you're proficient in all martial swords

The reason I'm recommending it is mainly vibes based, though it is like the one finesse weapon that's a d8 damage dice

[turbid dagger]

Simple can be good
A deadass human aldori swordlord swash would sure be fun

You don't always have to be a duskwalker automaton twisting tree magus or something

[craggy thunder]

but I could totally see an aldori swordlord going 'fuck it, I will travel halfway across the world to kick ass at this tourney and show the obvious superiority of my family/culture/school's dueling style'

[turbid dagger]

Its a global event ye
I think theres folks from a lot of different places represented

[craggy thunder]

It also opens up the martial arts movie classic of 'vaguely similar western and asian fighting style beat the shit out of each other'

get matched up against a dao wielding monk or something

or a Minkaian samurai

etc etc

I will say

if you do tengu

There is potential ~ drama ~ you could lean into

especially if you get matched up against a character from tian xia

because tengu are renowned in tian xia as swordsmiths

and an aldori tengu is saying 'nah I like this sword more'

which would be liable to piss a lot of them off

(which is why I have an aldori tengu character)

(she's kind of a bitch, admittedly)

[trim grotto]

thats fun for sure

[craggy thunder]

or your tengu could be from a family that at this point has forged aldori swords for generations, etc etc

[trim grotto]

at one point i was considering doing a construct inventor from alkenstar and taking construct shell to be piloting a big punch robot, but honestly i think the two concepts im working with rn are much stronger cause either im going for "the sword of my homeland beats tian xia steel and i will prove it in the ring" or a pride thing relating to dragon stuff for the barb

[craggy thunder]

"the sword of my homeland beats tian xia steel"

https://tenor.com/view/catvibe-gif-18088574

the wholesome way to do a tengu swordlord

meanwhile mine was like "lol fuck katanas I won a duel someone drunkenly challenged me to in university and this guy saw me and said 'yo lemme train you' so I left early to learn it"

[turbid dagger]

Oh speaking of dragons-
My other idea for FotRP was a Battlezoo Draconic Diehard Sovereign Dragon Fighter
Just a dragon rolling up on the tourney and going 'None of the rules say I can't compete'

[craggy thunder]

"No rules against a dog playing basketball" lookin ass

[trim grotto]

what might be a good background reason for fighting if i were a dragon barbarian

[craggy thunder]

uuuuuuuhhh

are there any dragons in Fist?

[turbid dagger]

'to prove You Are The Strongest' is always a classic
'Currency Acquisition' is another
All depends on how Noble your dude is

[craggy thunder]

Maybe you're a dragon's representative?

"Go my disciple, demonstrate my power by being obviously my servant and tearing shit up"

[trim grotto]

herald of a dragon who herself is scheming to use the power contained within the vault to strike down her master and become queen

[craggy thunder]

ooooooo~

That's fun

And gets into a draconic aspect that I wouldn't expect of a barbarian

scheming, conniving motherfucker

[trim grotto]

that would be really, really fun to play i think

[craggy thunder]

A really unique energy for a barbarian too

probably smug as hell

What ancestry you thinking for this dragon barb concept?

[trim grotto]

still unsure exactly

i mean beastkin anything is perpetually on my mind because im a raging fucking furry but thats all i got

[craggy thunder]

what region of the world would they be from you think?

lmao

very fair

[trim grotto]

oh hmmmmmm

[craggy thunder]

Could be a kobold

[trim grotto]

could lol

lizardfolk may also be neat

[craggy thunder]

ye

actually

orc makes sense

get an animal companion somehow

get that orc feat that lets you make it a riding drake

[trim grotto]

only problem i can see is that we're level 13 (joining slightly later than the beginning) and I have a fly speed rn

[craggy thunder]

well

at that level uh

riding drake can fly

XD

[trim grotto]

oh fr thats funny

well in one more level i get dragon transformation from dragon disciple lol

[craggy thunder]

what level does fist start at?

[trim grotto]

11 normally

but im joining a little bit late

[craggy thunder]

oh shit

[trim grotto]

still in book 1

[craggy thunder]

man now I wanna find a ruby phoenix game

[trim grotto]

its so fuckin cool

i forgor does rage specify no heavy armor

[craggy thunder]

uuuuuhhh

it do not lmao

[trim grotto]

[turbid dagger]

It does not, you just need to snag prof

[craggy thunder]

lmao

[turbid dagger]

Barb notably does not start with it but Sentinel Moment

And/Or Champion Moment

[trim grotto]

can't do multiclass archetypes. Free archetype other than that though

[craggy thunder]

oh no multiclass?

hwy?

[barren cipher]

sentinel is pretty much a no-brainer then

[turbid dagger]

That's a restriction I've seen a few times and don't quite get yeah

[barren cipher]

opens up a lot of otherwise difficult options

[trim grotto]

idk exactly but im not at all complaining i don't like doing them very much

[turbid dagger]

Yeah its not a BIG deal at all

[craggy thunder]

I mean valid

[trim grotto]

like it can be cool don't get me wrong, it just gets really clamplicated

https://tenor.com/view/its-as-shrimple-as-that-shrimple-clam-grass-jump-gif-25956447

[barren cipher]

yeah multiclass archetypes are a real mixed bag

[turbid dagger]

On one hand- Champion
On the other- Summoner

[barren cipher]

int 8-10 dex 10 lets you do a whole bunch of stuff you couldn't do otherwise

[craggy thunder]

man now that I know fist is a middle levels AP I rly wanna get in a game lmao

[barren cipher]

hell you could even have some int if you really wanted

[turbid dagger]

Its an 11-20 yeah

[trim grotto]

its super fuckin cool. Its about a big fighting tournament. This campaign in particular the GM is using a lot of really fun and at times geniunely interesting pro wrestling tropes of all things like post match interviews and sponsorships

[craggy thunder]

Huh!

[trim grotto]

so the plot of the campaign has a really fun but surprisingly fascinating vibe

[craggy thunder]

That's p cool

[turbid dagger]

I seem to recall sponsors being an in-built aspect of the campaign rather than a GM thing but that sounds neat

[trim grotto]

Because of course its pathfinder and not everything is what it seems about the tournament and the casters/sponsors are trying to make it seem like everything is normal

so there's a subplot the GM is leaning into about that

current party is a champion of Gorrum whos a skeleton, a washed up fighting champion who lost the last ruby phoenix tournament, and a somewhat stereotpical martial arts protagonist who believes (thought he may be wrong) he's a descendant of Hao Jin (the one hosting the tournament)

[craggy thunder]

champ, ???, monk?

[trim grotto]

Champ, Bard, and monk

oh and there's a warpriest cleric but i actually haven't heard to much about them

so party of 5

OHHHH what if i chose umbral dragon for my instinct

[craggy thunder]

ooo fun

[trim grotto]

it would make my rage breath negative damage

[turbid dagger]

That would be cool
Unsure if there are any undead in ruby phoenix
unbral dragon spirit barb is what I plan on doing for blood lords

[trim grotto]

hell yeah

[trim grotto]

hey so actually reading dragon form, i worry I might be misinterpretting cause of some weirdness on pathbuilders end; can dragon form, dragon instinct barbarian, and dragon discliple archetype actually choose umbral, cloud, sovreign, forest, sea, and underworld dragons?

cause i feel like they should but i don't see what the stats would be

[craggy thunder]

They can

[trim grotto]

is there a place where i can find the stats for them? cause for example, this says burst of fire for underworld dragon but i don't see a measurement

[craggy thunder]

oh it says that for all of em

it just says 'aoe of type of damage'

[trim grotto]

right but like, how bigs the aoe and whats the range

[craggy thunder]

no sabes

[craggy thunder]

Trying to figure out a FA version of my investigator/rogue dual class

the obvious answer is FA rogue

[clever cobalt]

I have the SUDDEN URGE

To make a Gnoll Samurai or Ninja

[rustic cape]

What is your vision of those

[clever cobalt]

I dunno

just a vibe I guess

[silver geyser]

Gnoll Ninja is good alliteration.

[barren cipher]

normally they're in the dragon form description

where it was line or cone only

The shape is a 30-foot cone or a 100- foot line

underworld dragons were published later

[craggy thunder]

Gnoll Gninja

noll ninja

[unborn rain]

Gninja? Aint' that that Frog pokemon /j

[trim grotto]

hey so golarion lore question, is there anywhere that specifically involves dragons?

any region or country or whatever

[craggy thunder]

afaik they're kinda just everywhere?

Not like, super common everywhere but like

a globally spread species

[light gyro]

there's some dwarvern civilisation that has a history with cloud dragons, idk if thats the one from the highhelm book

[trim grotto]

i see

[warped orbit]

Options:
Abadar
Gorum
Gozreh
Norgorber
Rovagug
Shelyn
Torag
Zon-Kuthon

[clever cobalt]

Norgorber, Abadar, or Torag

are my guesses

[frank crystal]

I’m betting Shelyn

I’ve got no reason to

But I am

[clever cobalt]

https://paizo.com/community/blog

||It's Zon||

[warped orbit]

noooo

[worthy stump]

Hermea is ruled by a dragon, there's a dwarven sky citadel near the Mwangi that's got a whole thing about cloud dragons, and Brevoy was created by a warlord who commanded red dragons unifying two nations in a war

[light gyro]

when i run an original campaign im gonna find a way to shoehorn yivali into it.

[worthy stump]

that's about it, though, iirc. dragons don't get involved with nations much or congregate, they just kinda vibe on their own

[surreal basin]

Man this

[surreal basin]

Just made me wish this was real

[clever cobalt]

Anyways |||Zon Kuthon death theories in shambles||

[surreal basin]

This was a huge bet for me yeah lolol

[clever cobalt]

I do.like this one though

Even if it's a bit more... subdued compared to some of the others

[warped orbit]

my scheme 😔

I was really banking on that one

[clever cobalt]

||I do like the idea of Former God Zon just kinda, wandering the world||

||Do we know what Zon's domains were before he was Zon?||

[light gyro]

||maybe he went fishing||

[surreal basin]

||p sure he was art and Shelyn was beauty||

||and Shelyn took up art after he went fucking bananas||

[clever cobalt]

||Yeah, same as Shelyn's from the looks of it||

||damn now I wanna know what Dou-Bral does on Earth||

Err

Golarion

||My first idea is inspire a revolution against Cheliax though||

Anyways we got 3 more

[light gyro]

||interesting that they don't really do anything with the divine power zon rips out of himself. if these are hints as to what actually happens, maybe someone willingly lets go of their divinity, and then that divinity has to go somewhere?||

[turbid dagger]

There's the dwarven civ in the mwangi expanse as mentioned, Xa Hoi in Tian Xia is openly ruled by Sovereign Dragons, Shadow Absalom is ruled by an umbral dragon, Brevoy as mentioned

[clever cobalt]

||Exemplar foreshading, maybe||

||Who are explicitly powered by sparks of the divine||

[surreal basin]

Genuinely really worried about Shelyn biting it now

I still have faith that Paizo wouldn’t pull that tho lol

[light gyro]

||'art and music are kind of dead' doesn't really gel with the colourful vibe they're going for these days so im not too worried about that happening||

[turbid dagger]

We're getting close too 'I am going to be disappointed by whoever dies'

[surreal basin]

Yeah that fair

That’s

I mean tbh I don’t expect it to be someone who would like

Inherently change the entire nature of the setting j guess

[clever cobalt]

Yeah this is inevitanle

[surreal basin]

Like I didn’t ever think nethys was actually gonna die

They aren’t doing a spellplague

[clever cobalt]

Both in the sense of "Why did X die" and "Why didn't Y die instead"

[surreal basin]

I mean I mostly just

Think expectations should be set for it to not be the end all be all of setting changes

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[light gyro]

if they dont get walkena im getting him myself

[clever cobalt]

I think it's gonna be big, no soubt

[surreal basin]

Oh he’s absolutely the motherfucker who is gonna die in an AP

[clever cobalt]

But uts not a rework of the entire setting

[surreal basin]

I genuinely think the new AP is gonna be mythic golden lions assassinating Walkena

[clever cobalt]

New AP? Like the one after WoI?

Cause the current list is uh

[surreal basin]

The one after WOI yeah

[clever cobalt]

The Nature One, Curtain Call, then mqybe War of Immortals

[surreal basin]

They said there’s an unannounced AP where a gods death will be a major component

[clever cobalt]

Curtain Call is pretty neat looking and fulfills a prophecy from Stolen Fate

[clever cobalt]

Is that not the WoI one?

[surreal basin]

….. yes that’s what I mean

[clever cobalt]

Ah

[surreal basin]

They haven’t announced the plot for the WOI one

So I think it’s gonna be murdering Walkena

[clever cobalt]

I doubt it's gonna be limited to a single place imo

Walkena seems a little small scale for the WoI AP

[surreal basin]

Idk

[clever cobalt]

Like I can totally see him getting got down the line but

[surreal basin]

2e APs have been very low World impact mostly

[clever cobalt]

Expecting the War of Immortals, one whose very premise shakes the setting, to be limited to a single relatively obscure place seems like recipe for disappointment imo

[light gyro]

book 4, kill walkena

[surreal basin]

Idk

/shrug

[clever cobalt]

Yeah I could see him being part of the AP but being based around him seems weird for the stakes involved in WoI

[light gyro]

book 5, tea party with yival. book 6, kill groteus

[surreal basin]

||one of the AP prophecies is “the sun will die” and unless you kill Saranrae Walkena is the next up||

I think even mythic characters will never be able to fight motherfuckers like Geb or legit full gods

Just because of how 2e is

[clever cobalt]

There are plenty of sun gods

[surreal basin]

They’d need to add extra class levels to the system

[clever cobalt]

More than Walkena and Saranrae

[light gyro]

but walkena is the most eminently killable

[clever cobalt]

This is true, but I still don't think it will mean he's the antagonist

[craggy thunder]

Shizuru is also a sun god right?

[clever cobalt]

I belive so

[light gyro]

there's a few
https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=92&Redirected=1

[clever cobalt]

Regardless I feel we're going in circles

Regarding Walkena

[turbid dagger]

To be fair with some kind of mythic system I can totally see killing Geb or Tar Baphon or something as within a level 20 PF2e adventure's purview

[surreal basin]

I mean idk I’m not debating you lol

I’m just not in agreeance on like… any level

[clever cobalt]

One figure I can see coming up is actually uh

Nex

Nex is iirc siphoning powers from gods in his weird demiplane

Not necessarily the big bad but I can see him being relevant

[turbid dagger]

But yeah I'd say taking out Walkena would be good level 20 fodder
And I wouldn't really call him obscure
He's a pretty big element of the Mwangi Expanse metaplot
Noted 'Got Its Whole Ass Book' world region the Mwangi Expanse

[clever cobalt]

Is he?

[surreal basin]

He’s

*yes

He’s literally a living god who regularly threatens neighboring nations, and he’s a big enough deal to get an entire book of a different AP dedicated to him

[light gyro]

strength of thousands major spoiler ||during book 4 you can help ascend a new rival sun god whose whole deal is being the true saviour foretold in mzali prophecy||

[clever cobalt]

I feel like this works against Walkena being a big bad imo, at least in WoI

[surreal basin]

Idk

I just don’t understand your point

[clever cobalt]

I think we're going in circles

Of "yuh huh" and "idk"

So I'm gonna drop it

[surreal basin]

K

I still think the most likely like

“Major” core diety is iomedae

[clever cobalt]

I do eagerly await the setting changes

Last major god to die was uhhh

Aroden

I think

[surreal basin]

She kinda hasn’t done much in 2e that would break the setting if she died

But it’d still be a huge mixup

So it’s kinda the best of both worlds

[clever cobalt]

Eh, I feel that would be weird, given she's only been relevant in the setting for.... what, 400 years? I feel like a more entrenched god would make more sense personally

But who knows

[turbid dagger]

Iomedae feels like too much of a main character
and also I still don't think they're going to kill any gods that fuck up an iconic but thats just me

[surreal basin]

Eh I mean she’s been relevant for the whole time pathfinder has existed

[clever cobalt]

I suppose, still betting against it

[surreal basin]

So from the perspective of the audience it doesn’t make a difference

Rovagug is the other choice

[echo briar]

So, the Erastil prophecy had a spoiler for the dead god that they removed. This makes me think its someone related to him.

[surreal basin]

If it’s not one of those two I will be surprised

[clever cobalt]

I'm not gonna argue cause I'm feeling frustrated and feeding thst isn't gonna help anyone

[turbid dagger]

Rovagug is my bet now that zon is safe

[clever cobalt]

Rovugug, Saranrae, and Shelyn are my guesses

[surreal basin]

The spoiler for Erastil that was removed was for how the prismatic ray changed

Not for who died

Iirc

[echo briar]

I'm going with Gorum.

[clever cobalt]

Gorum feels too... "low brow" I guess?

But that mauy just be me

[surreal basin]

I also think it’s unlikely to be someone whose like….. absence would be weird from a list of deities

Like you can’t not have a god of magic

[worthy stump]

my money's on Abadar. we have to kill capitalism

[surreal basin]

You CAN not have a god of bdsm torture

Thus why I guess Zon

*guessed

Obviously there are multiple gods of magic in setting but I mean like

Taking the Core as the ‘main’ gods

[barren cipher]

surely it must be rovagug

[ember bay]

My guess was Zon because that would cause a change with Shelyn for the Prismatic Ray thing.

[surreal basin]

While the non-core gods are mostly for setting nerds tbh lol

[worthy stump]

other gods can always take another's domains too, tbf

[surreal basin]

I still think the change is Arazni kissing them

[light gyro]

rovagug dies and his corpse turns into a shit load of kaiju for the gods to deal with

[barren cipher]

what better way to highlight that prophecy is broken than offing the guy prophesied to destroy the universe

[clever cobalt]

yeah

[surreal basin]

Would also massively fuck up the Cold War

And also destabilize asmodeus as the ruler of hell

[worthy stump]

that could definitely be interesting, yeah

[clever cobalt]

yeah Rovugug dying makes sense in that regard

[surreal basin]

Since him holding rovagugs leash is the reason people don’t fuck with him

[clever cobalt]

it is War of Immortals

[surreal basin]

Yeyeye

[clever cobalt]

and a cold war going hot makes sense

[surreal basin]

Arazni becomes a core diety and then immidetly dies /s

[worthy stump]

lmao

[echo briar]

Honestly, I think each of the prophecies have a hint of truth to them. whoever it is, I think Arazni will kill them, or at least have a hand in killing them

[worthy stump]

that would be very funny

[clever cobalt]

I agree with this

also the God Eating Beast sounds interesting

and perhaps related to Rovugug?

[echo briar]

The fact that she maybe could was mentioned too much for it to be nothing, so its either a hint or a purposeful red herring

[clever cobalt]

yeah

same with the Beast from Erastil's part

[surreal basin]

Arazni kills Iomadae would prove that Paizo writes for me specifically

[limber comet]

This week was an interesting death

[echo briar]

I don't actually think Arasni has grudge against Iomadae. Like her followers betrayed her, but Iomadae had no involvement in it and punished them afterwards

[limber comet]

My money is on Sarenrae or Rovagug

[light gyro]

it's a bluff and they're killing asmodeus - "guess our prophecy was wrong too!" - paizo writing team

[craggy thunder]

That’d be dark but honestly cool

[trim grotto]

as a barbarian, what are some good ways to raise my AC?

[worthy stump]

hmmm. a shield, sentinel dedication, getting a weapon with parry

[barren cipher]

animal barb with a shield is pretty tanky overall

[turbid dagger]

Animal Skin if you are an animal barb
And yeah it can take a shield alright
Though as always 'punching with one hand shield in the other' is cursed

[barren cipher]

i think it's fine if you're goring people to death with your head

[solar tendon]

everstand stance giant barbarian 😌

with a fortress shield so you like

actually reach neutral ac I think

[silver geyser]

Angy Captain Golarion

[rustic cape]

Rovagug’s still in the running baaaaabyyyyy

[light gyro]

hypercognition. hypercognition. hypercognition. hypercogniti

[trim grotto]

Are there any magic items other than the hand wraps of mighty blows that have to do with unarmed attacks?

[solar tendon]

not really

unarmed speifically anyway, afaik

there's a monk specific rune that lets you do a ranged unarmed attack if your first flurry of blows strike drops someone

[turbid dagger]

There are specific magical handwraps also

Like the dragon handwraps (forget the exact name)

Titan's Grasps are gloves that help with grappling but they compete with handwraps for your hand slot so uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[frank crystal]

Wait you can’t just wear them both?

[turbid dagger]

No, they occupy the same slot

[frank crystal]

oh huh

[turbid dagger]

So Titan's Grasps are really good but uh
Probably need to use them with a gill hook or something

[frank crystal]

Or just like a one handed weapon

[silver geyser]

Inventor calls once again.

[craggy thunder]

I like the idea of a tengu 'inventor' that's rly just a massive sword nerd

so takes weapon innovation to represent how they're forging themselves new and better swords

[silver geyser]

Yeeeee

[surreal basin]

Iirc

There are no slot rules

You can wear 10 pairs of magical gloves RAW unless I am unaware of something

[warped orbit]

there are

you cannot wear two worn items of the same type

[surreal basin]

Could you help me find where that’s said?

[warped orbit]

trying to find a citation rn

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=3155

An item that needs to be worn to function lists “worn” as its usage. This is followed by another word if the character is limited to only one of that type of item. For instance, a character can wear any number of rings, so the entry for a ring would list only “worn.” However, if the Usage entry were “worn cloak,” then a character couldn’t wear another cloak on top of that one. It’s assumed that items are meant to be worn by humanoids; any item that can or must be worn by a different type of creature either states this in its description or has the companion trait. Most magic items a character must wear have the invested trait, as described on page 219.

and handwraps are "worn gloves"

[surreal basin]

Wild

Man ngl I wish some things were in more logical places on nethys

Like this should be in the full rules for worn items

Not just in its own weird ass page lol

Hilariously I don’t think my group has like

Ever held to this

I don’t think it’s a consideration for item balance so it’s probably fine lol

[silver geyser]

You will never stop me from wearing multiple belts like the deranged Final Fantasy character I am.

[craggy thunder]

I wish there was a concealable wrist dagger

[light gyro]

its a bit drastic but i think automatons can integrate a weapon

not exactly subtle though

[trim grotto]

having just the hardest time deciding on an ancestry for this dragon barb

[clever cobalt]

What's their vibe

[trim grotto]

smug, scheming

still intimidating though

bastard character

[clever cobalt]

Human

Give them an evil mustache and goatee

[turbid dagger]

dragon

More seriously uhhhh
An orc might be cool
He's smart and highbrow but still understands Violence

[barren cipher]

orc ferocity is great

[craggy thunder]

I second orc

[barren cipher]

helps smooth out those turns where you get crit three times in a row

[craggy thunder]

cuz orc also lets you do fun stuff with beastmaster FA

i.e. lets you have a drake companion

[trim grotto]

i went with a beastkin kobold so i can alternate between large and small lol

[craggy thunder]

lmao nice

[craggy thunder]

what's a good archetype for alchemical investigator?

[barren cipher]

wizard

[craggy thunder]

forgot to specify nonmagical, fuck

[barren cipher]

medic, eldritch archer also pretty good

[surreal basin]

Uhhh

[frank crystal]

Satyr are Fey in Golarion right?

[worthy stump]

mhm

[strange nest]

How the heck does aiding attacks work

[warped orbit]

you prepare to Aid, and then when they make the attack you make your check to Aid

or what do you mean exactly?

[strange nest]

I guess it’s just the vagueness of how you can help the the difficulty of the dc

[barren cipher]

yeah this is unfortunately anyone's guess

they missed an opportunity to clarify what you are supposed to do with aid

some people set the DC to whatever DC the aided character is rolling against

some people leave it at 15 forever so that mid to high level characters virtually always crit

[warped orbit]

It's a bit messy

But the change to the base DC makes me think its intended to just be an auto success/crit eventually

[warped orbit]

How you can Aid exactly is just kinda GM fiat

It's more or less just what makes sense to you

I personally think being lenient with it is fine

[solar tendon]

ye

like after some awkward early levels you just become a good team

[sinful gyro]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-second-edition-guns-alkenstar-bundle-paizo-books

Includes the foundry module for Outlaws and physical book for guns and gears

Very good deal

[solar storm]

oh jeeeez

[solar tendon]

oh nice

[solar storm]

That's tempting just for the Foundry content

[clever cobalt]

How much longer will this stay up?

Cause God I'm tempted but I can't afford it atm

[barren cipher]

21 days

[clever cobalt]

Cool

[turbid dagger]

So it seems like our Play By Post Abomvaults game is back on
Our GM booted one player what ghosted us and gave the other not-very-active one A Talking Too
And recruited a new player they are confident in
Now, the question
Do I play a Fleshwarp Spirit Barbarian or a Kobold Distant Grasp Psychic 🤔

[rustic cape]

Both of those things are cool

[turbid dagger]

My plan for the Kobold Psychic is that they're Wandering Reverie and all their spell visual manifestations are of phantom dragons doing stuff
Telekinetic Rend is like
Dragon claws manifesting from thin air to slash at dudes and so on

Dragon Disciple for Free Archetype naturally

Wheras the Fleshwarp is gonna have Mindsmith Archetype but their 'mental weapon' is just a mutating limb

[scenic patio]

Kobold Psychic go for that one 😁

[strange nest]

Love the kobold idea as well

[rustic cape]

Yeah that’s rad

Do the dragon psychic

[turbid dagger]

My only worry is that it may be a little one note
You know
'hee hee get it they're a kobold that likes dragons'
I've got some ideas for a backstory but need to double check the timeline

[barren cipher]

there are a variety of ways to play it

there's a whole spectrum from 'tee hee' to 'i intend to atttain dragon apotheosis'

[frank crystal]

What does dragon apotheosis looks like?

[barren cipher]

beating up apsu and taking his lunch money domains through will alone, probably

[frank crystal]

Hell yah

[turbid dagger]

I'm thinking they may be an orphaned remnant of the Stonescales?
They show up in the beginners box right

They show up in the FAR past of abomvaults timeline but

And I know they existed at least up until very recently

Maybe when the Thirsty Alpaca collapsed the search for survivors resulted in them getting pulled from the rubble
Unsure how recent is recent

[surreal basin]

Yeah tbh I keep aid at DC 15 because like

You are sacrificing an action and your reaction to do it

That’s not a small price

The only time I keep it higher is in the scenario where the aid description is a bit of a stretch or when it’s something really crazy

[barren cipher]

i think it's fine if (lacking abilities to the contrary) you have whoever is doing the aiding also assume some of the risk

[young chasm]

i have a human gunslinger in my game that's taken cooperative nature and fakeout and honestly his character is the ONLY time i've ever adjusted the aid DC

otherwise it gets a little silly

[warped orbit]

Fakeout is very strong, but tbh just let Gunslingers have this one

[barren cipher]

yeah fake out is pretty ridiculous

[warped orbit]

it's like their best ability

[surreal basin]

Really amused by the fact that fake out requires the gun to be loaded

The enemy totally is keeping track of how loaded my gun is :3

[turbid dagger]

For the longest time I thought you actually shot the gun because of that
And was like 'wtf this sucks'

[warped orbit]

fortunately you can just have a gauntlet bow for that now too

[turbid dagger]

If someone was threatening to shoot me with a gauntlet bow I simply would not care

[warped orbit]

I have one of them on my Investigator just so I have a loaded weapon to fire in case I get good DeS rolls without being able to reload

[turbid dagger]

IT also seems good for defensive armaments
Scuffed buckler

Tho can you use the parry function while twohanding a gun?

[warped orbit]

yeah it's basically a gauntlet, a buckler, and an emergency gun all in one

[warped orbit]

you need a hand free for it

well, you need to "wield" the weapon, so the gauntlet bow would take up the hand when you use Parry

[warped orbit]

just very handy to have on almost everyone

does take 1 bulk though

[rapid wagon]

whats hte guns of alkenstar campaign all about?

like single phrase, would gunslingers vs zombies be a fit?

[light gyro]

https://downloads.paizo.com/Outlaws+of+Alkenstar+Player's+Guide.pdf :^)

"In this campaign for Pathfinder Second Edition, you’ll create a 1st-level character and take on the role of a criminal outlaw in a steam-powered metropolis. To get revenge on the villains who ruined you, you’ll need to defeat clockwork creatures, collect fantastic firearms, and navigate industrial dungeons, magical wilds, and myriad social spheres"

[turbid dagger]

Not many undead no
It's a steampunk cowboy revenge story

[rapid wagon]

hmm ok

that does sound pretty sickj

[warped orbit]

it also gets into a bit of political stuff near the end

[rapid wagon]

side note, anyone know if opera GX just doesnt allow you to log into paizo?

[turbid dagger]

Oh I'll note something if your gonna play or run
There's lots of constructs so gunslingers actually suffer a bit
Lamely
Because their low dice and lack of flat damage means their bullets tend to get gobbled up by Hardness

[rapid wagon]

seems a good opportunity to inject some environmental solution building

as a gm

[echo briar]

Does anyone know what this is referring too? Desnas 5th level spell is in the player core

along with all the rest of her spells

[solar storm]

This being the pfs note?

[echo briar]

yes

[solar storm]

So Desna usually provides Dreaming Potential as a 5th level spell

But because of how PFS works Dreaming Potential does absolutely nothing in PFS play

So you get a different spell which actually can be used instead

[warped orbit]

PFS removes a lot of more situational spells

similar thing for a lot of other gods

[barren cipher]

there's a lot of this around unfortunately

which browsers do and do not work seems to be randomly determined on an irregular basis

[rapid wagon]

unfortunate

not a huge problem to bounce to chrome or something

but inconvenient

i thought id been doing something wrong at first

[surreal basin]

what do yall think the best classes are for bow useage?

[rapid wagon]

im not as learned as others here, but generally I think a Fighter is a shoe in, I imagine rangers are still handy with a bow

[solar tendon]

hunted shot just seems fun

freeing up an action to do shenanigans

[light gyro]

also starlit span magus if you want to shoot fireballs

[rapid wagon]

fighters just generally the "if you want to focus on a weapon or weapons, they're usually pretty good at it"

[barren cipher]

yeah honestly it's hard to beat fighter

'shooting bows and' is a different affair

[surreal basin]

also

sidenote

is there a way for a skeleton pc to get positive healing

similar to how there are a few ways for living pcs to get negative

[barren cipher]

i don't think so

you could be a summoner or something and get people to heal your eidolon

[surreal basin]

that's fair

i just wanna be a skeleton redeemer but am realizing that might uh

be bad

maybe I could just convince my gm to let me swap negative for positive healing since i am like

a divinely blessed creature in backstory

I'm more of a skeleton that's been reanimated by a plant

[barren cipher]

be a leshy instead maybe

[surreal basin]

don't leshy have to be small

[turbid dagger]

I'd say double/triple shot Fighter is probably the BEST, but
I'm the local crazy person who loves bow champ with Ranged Reprisal

I'm playing one right now and he Fucks People Up

[barren cipher]

probably yeah

i don't think there's anything that lets you achieve permanent medium size off the top of my head

[surreal basin]

I guess i could reflavor ghoran.... might just

ask my gm to let me swap lol

since negative healing like

isn't inherently a good or a bad trait

ehhh, I do kinda want to be living.... this is weird

[turbid dagger]

Negative Healing is fun
You are immune to a lot of enemies suddenly
At the cost of healing being kind of a pain in the ass

[surreal basin]

oh yeah I know lol

I played a vamp in bloodlords

but this is a kingmaker campaign where a party member is a life oracle

so it would mostly just kinda be a huge issue

[turbid dagger]

Oh yes it would

[surreal basin]

okay so

weird thing

conrasu with custom mixed heritage skeleton :3

[strange nest]

Can you use sabotage to damage enemy armor? Cause it would pretty cool, albeit still niche

[turbid dagger]

If your GM is down for that, that sounds good
Also, I would like to shake their hand

[surreal basin]

LMAO

i mean custom mixed heritage is just an uncommon option now with the remaster :3

[turbid dagger]

That's still two rares and an uncommon just in the ancestry slot lmao

[surreal basin]

fair enough yeah

.... are conrasu rare?

[turbid dagger]

Yeah

[surreal basin]

weird

anyway we historically haven't really cared about that kinda thing

it's not like it's more powerful than baseline

[turbid dagger]

There's like twelve of them in the deepest part of the mwangi expanse
Ten of them do not care about adventuring and just carve wood into cubes

[surreal basin]

oh yeah fair

I'd be pretty heavily reflavoring it at least

[warped orbit]

Conrasu are rare because they are just actually super rare in setting yeah

there just aren't a lot of them

[turbid dagger]

And also not prone to adventuring, a double whammy

[surreal basin]

makes sense

[warped orbit]

similar thing with Goloma for example

[surreal basin]

GMs response was in the tenatively positive

oh

tian xia book will have the nature spirit ancestry

that could also work

[turbid dagger]

Oh kickass
Will that be out by the time yall are playing tho?

[barren cipher]

yeah, it's incapacitation though

[surreal basin]

yeah probably

we're still gonna go through stolen fate after gatewalkers

and were just about to finish GW

that forest spirit thing might be the winner tho

oh god why is heavy armor so expensive

[turbid dagger]

No AC for u
I will say though
(Literal First/Second session Kingmaker spoils) ||there's a suit of half plate you can get like right away in Kingmaker as-written iirc||

[surreal basin]

noice

[turbid dagger]

Just as loot lying around
My hobgob fighter is rocking it right now (he asked very nicely to keep it)

[strange nest]

I sure do love swinging viciously!

[strange nest]

I just like seeing big numbers

[rapid wagon]

Question, the staff wizard gets to load a level 1 spell and a cantrip onto it, then can spend spell slots to give it extra charges.

Does that mean it only ever has 1 spell on it, but the idea is to cast that spell a lot?

[light gyro]

it starts with one spell, but then you can upgrade it into another staff (with your extra cantrip and spell) through crafting

so you could have a staff of fire with, idk, a true strike in there

[rapid wagon]

Hmm I may be a novice caster maker but I'm failing to see the scaling potential compared to the other thesises

I love the flavor though

[fast hill]

the other benefits are more important iirc

At 8th level, you can expend two spells instead of one when preparing any staff, adding additional charges equal to the combined ranks of the expended spells.

[silver geyser]

A staff is excellent utility, there for either spells you want to repeat a lot or niche stuff you wouldn't prepare.

[rapid wagon]

Oh so you could juice any staff, it's because I am not familiar with what kinds of staffs you can get huh

For me it seemed like "you can cast a level one spell a LOT"

[fast hill]

it means you can pick one really cool spell

that is a lvl 1 spell

and put it on any staff

[solar tendon]

and then over time sacrifice more of your top level slots to basically become a charge based caster

basically the opposite of spell blending

[light gyro]

staves tend to be pretty good too, but there's rules for making your one one - you just need to pick staves that share a thematic tag (e.g. water)

[rapid wagon]

I'm presuming there are worthwhile level one spells one may wish to cast with great frequency and/or magical staves that have very useful powers that making giving them loads of extra charges a huge boon?

Perhaps a little bit loot dependant?

[light gyro]

true strike is a bit of a meme spell, but probably worth it if you plan on taking anything with a spell attack roll

[warped orbit]

I'd actually say being able to use two slots is more useful for not having to use your top level slot for charges

I'm personally not too big on Staff Nexus, but it can probably be decent with the right staff

[rapid wagon]

it strongly reminds me of like LotR and Gandalf when meeting with Theoden "You wouldn't part an old man from his walking stick?"

[barren cipher]

you can also use it to absolutely obliterate people by breaking your staff of the magi

[warped orbit]

But for Thesis it's IMO mostly Spell Blending, maybe Staff Nexus, and then maybe Spell Substitution

[rapid wagon]

im guessing on the flipside, the spell weaving one is all about scoring more big casts at the cost of fewer smaller spells?

[light gyro]

familiar not even mentioned

[warped orbit]

Yes, Spell Blending lets you turn two slots into one slot of the next highest level

[warped orbit]

I find familiars kinda useless tbqh

And the Metamagic thesis is actually useless

[rapid wagon]

early access to a spell shaping feat is totally useless?

[warped orbit]

It just applies to very little

You basically get Reach or Widen
And the extra feat scaling at only half your level means it can't really get any good spellshapes until way later

But just generally two free feats isn't that big of a draw for a Wizard

Caster feats don't exactly have much competition, if you want those feats just take them

[rapid wagon]

If it possible to combo staff wizard with staff magus to be a wizard who knows how to scrap with a stick?

Or maybe monastic weapons monk with wizard

Martial artist and student of magic...

I guess that's just a staff magus

[barren cipher]

that is in fact just a staff magus

you could dual class i guess but the benefits are probably pretty modest compared to just being a fighter or something

[craggy thunder]

til demiplane has the playtest classes

[scenic patio]

Oh hey pathfinder folks who have monster core how did they change giants?

[solar tendon]

actually genuinely forgot you even had that choice haha

[craggy thunder]

My gm is switching us to demiplane and it's gonna annoy me I think

Cuz all the character options I use aren't in player core lmao

[rapid wagon]

Demiplane?

[craggy thunder]

d&d beyond but for not d&d

[rapid wagon]

Oh huh

Isn't pathbuilder free though?

[craggy thunder]

idk if I can import pathbuilder characters

and we're playing online

[rapid wagon]

Hmm

[solar storm]

I'm pretty sure all the player options are available in Demiplane

[craggy thunder]

They are, but behind a paywall

[solar storm]

Oh are they?

Weird

[clever cobalt]

Yeah you gotta officially own the books they're from iirc

[solar storm]

I've just been using the compendium and they're all freely available there

[scenic patio]

Oh hey I know you have monster core, what changes did they make to giants if you mind me asking 😅

[solar storm]

I don't remember seeing much in the way of giant changes

Was kind of surprising

[scenic patio]

WOW yeah surprisingly

[rapid wagon]

what was wrong with giants?

[scenic patio]

Very d&d connected

[light gyro]

oh they're still hill/storm/fire/whatever?

[scenic patio]

At least in terms of elemental connections

[solar storm]

Yeah the names didn't change

[scenic patio]

I’m legit surprised

Especially considering how much dragons changed

[barren cipher]

i wonder if there's some literary or mythological precedent

norse maybe

there are definitely fire giants and such

[solar tendon]

mm

[barren cipher]

yeah on review it seems there's a bunch of stuff in the eddas that lines up with the d&d giants

[warped orbit]

yeah frost and fire giants are already there-ish

[barren cipher]

stone/mountain giants feature in the hobbit

[frank crystal]

Hey gamers, I’m running an escape encounter soon where my players are running from a group of bounty hunters

You think that’s better handled on a map or no?

[barren cipher]

narratively probably

[turbid dagger]

Yeah if your doing it on a battlemap it becomes uh
Stride Strangeness

[warped orbit]

you could use the Chase rules

or just more generally a narrative challenge

[barren cipher]

you'd only really want a map for the combat i think

[frank crystal]

Oh yah probably

[frank crystal]

Alright then yah

I’ll prep a map for if they fight

But otherwise we’ll handle this escape narratively

[scenic patio]

Definitely via Narrative, However I think aspects of a map might be helpful

[solar storm]

I would definitely use the chase rules

They're fun

And the battle rules don't work that well when one side wants to escape

Though if you want a combat encounter a "breakout" encounter where the PCs just need to get across the map can be fun

[solar tendon]

do bothhhh

like either breakout to start the chase or the breakout is the 'penalty' for being caught

[frank crystal]

What are chase rules?

[scenic patio]

they should be in the GM core

[warped orbit]

very simplified, basically both sides make checks against a DC based on some kind of obstacle

so if the players do well enough, they gain ground on their pursuers

[frank crystal]

Ah cool

And I assume it’s similar then for running away?

[warped orbit]

yeah it works about the same whether you are the one chasing or running away

[frank crystal]

Ok great

[solar tendon]

the gm comes up with a series of obstacles

and then like example solutions with different dcs

with ofc the option of novel solutions using those dcs as a baseline

[frank crystal]

Ah that is neat

So for an idea for a monster who is fragile but has insane regeneration do y’all think it would be better represented by low HP but high resistance or low HP and super high passive healing?

[barren cipher]

there are guidelines for how much hp you have to take away for fast healing/regen

how do you see this fight playing out?

[frank crystal]

Kinda a swarm (or like, 3-4 enemies) that need to be one shot to kill then effectively

[fast hill]

Definitely the fast healing then

[frank crystal]

Or at least killed within a short time frame

[fast hill]

High resistances is the opposite, they will be slowly wittled down

[barren cipher]

yeah if you want the pcs to focus them down one by one put a good fast healing value on them

[frank crystal]

[frank crystal]

Also to be fair I was kinda imagining as like, more extreme then normal enemies

[barren cipher]

if you want to do it as an actual swarm you could do some, like, hp threshold thing i guess

[frank crystal]

Like a level 3 enemy with 5 HP but 20 physical resistance

[frank crystal]

Nah I was thinking individuals

[barren cipher]

we have those, they are constructs

and they suck to fight honestly

[frank crystal]

I just said swarm because it conveys the image in my mind

[barren cipher]

hate them

[frank crystal]

I do use a lot of clockwork enemies tbh…

[turbid dagger]

I'm not sure if a level 3 char can do 20 damage consistently enough to kill such an enemy, admittedly
What is like, your mental image for these dudes? What Are they in narrative?

[barren cipher]

they also just fold to like a cantrip

[frank crystal]

Some kinda monster that regenerates almost as soon as you wound it

Like you stab it and the wound closes around your sword

[barren cipher]

yeah fast healing on the upper end of the scale

[frank crystal]

Also that was like a quick math thing to get the idea behind

[barren cipher]

maybe a bit more and take off some hp

what level are we looking at?

[frank crystal]

I dont actually know the specifics numbers I’d use yet

[frank crystal]

Probably like, level 5

[barren cipher]

so you could have a creature with like... 32(medium)-51(high) hp and 24 fast healing

[frank crystal]

That sounds good yah

Thanks

[fast hill]

High resistance means that one person had to do huge damage and 1 shot it

Fast healing means the party can focus on it together

[frank crystal]

True!

[solar tendon]

high resistance can be quite feelsbad for lower damaged characters too

[strange nest]

Anyone have some good reasons to use the non-reach monk weapons for a monastic weaponry build?

I know the flurrying rune exists, but I was wondering if there was some other stuff for weapons too

[turbid dagger]

peafowl stance is kinda sexy

A lot of the time its forcing an enemy to spend an action to keep attacking

[barren cipher]

if you wanna spend a lot of feats on ki powers, i guess?

bow staff is quite good

[strange nest]

like, what does the Kama do for a monk

[turbid dagger]

Nothing!
Deadly Fists are d6 blunt agile finesse trip grapple shove
Kama is d6 slashing agile trip

[strange nest]

lmao

[clever cobalt]

Kama have reach iirc?

But yeah

[turbid dagger]

You are thinking of kusarigama

Which is very different and fairly solid iirc

[clever cobalt]

Oh yeah, that

Most monk weapons are inferior to stances

Anyways

A shackles campaign is on my mind

I hope we get some Pirate stuff in PF2e at some point

[solar tendon]

kama being a martial weapon is kinda funny

but I guess scythe is too

[strange nest]

the sickle is simple

[clever cobalt]

As is the Hatchet

Well

[strange nest]

and the kama is literally just a japanese sickle lol

[clever cobalt]

It's Martial

[solar tendon]

honestly i kinda think it would be cool if the 'monk weapon' concept was moved out of monk into it's own class that is also the multi weapon master ppl want

[clever cobalt]

Sword Saint 👀

[solar tendon]

but also axe how 'monk weapons' are currently done i feel ,,,,

in terms of what is considered one

[clever cobalt]

Any notable changes in the Shackles from 1e to 2e?

Aside from the Massively Failed Cheliax invasion and the election of a new Hurricane Queen/King

[silver geyser]

It's fun that the Unarmed Monk has circled back around to being the better choice.

Because in 1e, it was the worse choice, because enhcanting your fists was more expensive than enchanting weapons

[clever cobalt]

Thank God for handwraps

[silver geyser]

Rest in Piss, Amulet of Mighty Blows.

[frank crystal]

Wasn’t bow monk the like, best monk build by a mile too?

[silver geyser]

There was some competition.

But generally, it was monks with weapons.

Not even necessarily monk weapons.

[frank crystal]

Ah

[strange nest]

perhaps if they added more monk weapon stances it could work better, but then you still have the issue of needing to spend a feat on monastic weaponry and a stance

also why does peafowl stance only work with swords lol

[worthy stump]

unchained weapon monk was pretty nutso in 1e, yeah

[silver geyser]

Also Sohei monk.

[echo briar]

What class is the most cowboy other than the gunslinger?

I am trying to make BDG's pumpkin cowboy, who is explicitly stated to be "no outlaw and he won't quickdraw"

[frank crystal]

Ranger

[rapid wagon]

i saw there wer a few weapon usable stances higher leveled for monk

also i will say, just from personal play experience, the bow monk or weapon monk being "better" than unarmed monk didn't in any way make the unarmed monk styles nonviable. In the games I'd played I never really felt the sentiment i see online more of like... needing to aim for the "best" version of any class

in 1e i mean

[limber comet]

Today I discovered what meteor hammers are

What the fuck I wanna make a char who uses one

[warped orbit]

They're great

[surreal basin]

I made a character who used one for a good 5/6ths of a campaign

The first part I used a whip

Cause they were a Belmont expy

[warped orbit]

Played a meteor hammer Fighter for a while, it was great

[surreal basin]

They fucking destroyed and were probably my best performing character

[warped orbit]

Knockdown 😌

[surreal basin]

Also a fighter

YEAH KNOCKDOWN

[warped orbit]

Also flail crits

[surreal basin]

also back in the days when a flail crit didn’t proc saves

[warped orbit]

Even if they're nerfed now

[surreal basin]

You were just prone

[warped orbit]

The funniest thing was Tripping someone, then when they Stand Up you crit them on the AoO

And knock them right back down

[surreal basin]

YEAAAAH

the classic

Also at the end of the campaign getting to use overwhelming blow to just fuckin annihilate enemies

[warped orbit]

But yeah Knockdown in general huge stonks if you got AoO/Reactive Strike

Especially if some of your allies do as well

And Trip also sets up off guard for any ranged allies

[surreal basin]

My uhhh

Rogue friend in the party had opportune backstab and a wolf animal companion

We 3 were a fucking menace

[craggy thunder]

Agile, Backstabber, Finesse

Price 1 gp; Damage 1d4 P; Bulk L
Hands 1
Type Melee; Category Martial; Group Sword
```Is this kinda just better Dogslicer?

[unborn rain]

no it's worse dogslicer

less damage and 10 as expensive

[craggy thunder]

tru

I think I'm gonna go for Fatal d8 instead of Backstabber

[warped orbit]

Bsckstabber is a really weird tag

[craggy thunder]

my main worry was like, this is neither uncommon nor ancestry-locked, so even with the lesser damage I was a bit worried

[frank crystal]

I mean extra flat damage is never bad

And like, making your target flat footed is something you want anyway

[unborn rain]

uncommon isnt supposed to denote quality at all, it's supposed to be narrative

[strange nest]

Uncommon gear is a bit silly sometimes

[craggy thunder]

question; how much is finesse like

'worth'

in terms of traits

[warped orbit]

I mostly find the scaling on it weird

[frank crystal]

Probably a damage die on average

[warped orbit]

Because its just 1 danage, and only scales to 2 at +3 potency

[frank crystal]

That is fair

I do wish it just was equal to your potency rune

[warped orbit]

Or just 1 precision per weapon die

[frank crystal]

Yah

[craggy thunder]

I ask cuz I'm p much trying to make a shortsword without finesse but keeping agile

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

[craggy thunder]

To represent smaller knightly swords

that adventurer's probably use as like

[frank crystal]

Yah agile is very much most of the budget in that weapon

[craggy thunder]

'generic one handed sword' which

as a nerd

longsword doesn't do for me lol

[frank crystal]

I think agile is generally locked to d6s on one handed weapons?

[craggy thunder]

Ye

I intend to keep the damage at d6

but what would be an equivalent trait to Finesse in this case?

[frank crystal]

Could go for athletics action trait?

You’d be using this on a strength character anyway

[craggy thunder]

so Trip, Shove, etc?

[frank crystal]

Yah

[craggy thunder]

Agile, Disarm, Versatile P

Price 1 gp; Damage 1d6 S; Bulk L
Hands 1
Type Melee; Category Martial; Group Sword

[clever cobalt]

Isn't that just a Shortsword with Disarm instead of Finesse?

[solar tendon]

is that not just like

how weapons work haah

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[craggy thunder]

It do be a shortsword with disarm instead of finesse yes lol

[strange nest]

Its kinda funny that because of how ruffian rogue works, you can sneak attack with a lance as long as you’re mounted to one hand it

I know it’s all in the name of balance, but I still find it amusing that you’re perfectly capable of exploiting a foe’s compromised defense with a Gnome Hooked Hammer in one hand, but as soon as you put your other hand on it you lose that capability

[warped orbit]

I do think they were a little too strict on Ruffian

Especially since Thief gets to use stances now

[solar tendon]

it's kinda pointless yeah

[rustic cape]

Ruffian is undertuned

[strange nest]

Like, using two hands should give you more control to do precise strikes

[solar tendon]

and like

sneak attack isn't even that much damage

barbarian exists

[strange nest]

And sneak attack already encourages agile weapons so you can proc it multiple times

also you can already get a bunch of good weapon traits on finesse weapons

And if I’m not mistaken, traits like agile and finesse apply to maneuvers done with weapons

[solar tendon]

finesse doesn't

it kinda used to

I think agile does though?

[strange nest]

Oh, they finally clarified that?

[warped orbit]

agile does now

finesse is not supposed to

though I think finesse maneuvers is cool actually personally

because as is it makes the maneuver traits on finesse a bit awkward

[strange nest]

though I suppose they still get to benefit from potency runes

[solar tendon]

yeah

getting a general item bonus to athletics is problematic before you get to +2 haha

scratch that apparently lifting belt does it

as well as spiny lodestone. dunno how I missed them

dex+str is not a bad way to go though tbh

especially cause skills progress faster than weapon prof