Pathfinder

[surreal basin]

this is dumb but

do yall know if theres a way to export creatures in a readable format like a pdf from foundry

I've made a lot of custom fellas in foundry and wouldn't mind not having to retype everything

[solar storm]

Tbf you mostly make scrolls and such for the unflip cat kind of spells

[solar storm]

I know it’s possible for pc character sheets

[surreal basin]

like as a pdf? nice

how do?

[turbid dagger]

Second session of Abomvaults cleared!
My crew made ||the two flies|| an Extreme encounter by ||triggering the frog maggots only after starting the fight with them||
They made it out though!!! I was real proud of them
And then our Bard ||disabled the kobold haunt|| by singing a sad song (I used the DC for the 'intended' intimidate check because I though the performance idea was cool)

[scenic patio]

Neat man ❤️🫡

[surreal basin]

Do you think that it’s fair to say that due to magical radiation interference, the players can’t use teleport to get past an ancient continent wide battlefield that was home to a big war between two super magically advanced civilizations

[turbid dagger]

That's practically Golarions own mana wastes so I say sure

[surreal basin]

Yeah it’s a really similar place

[turbid dagger]

Settled on twisting Tree Magus for season of ghosts
Uncertain how many spell attack spells even exist now but ignition is 2d6
I have heard there's a cool Bo staff in season of ghosts which.... is not what twisting tree uses but I bet my GM would let me staffify it

[limber comet]

Ooh, fun

Magus is a solid class overall

[light gyro]

the laughing shadow i gm for has had a lot of success with (expansive spellstrike) draw the lightning

[limber comet]

I think Magus needs a bit of an errata considering all the remaster stuff

[light gyro]

i still dont think they've published something to fix the wording on arcane cascade. other than that i dont see what needs remastering

(as-written arcane cascade technically does nothing cus using it breaks its own stance requirement lol)

[limber comet]

I mean I'd like to take a feat other than Expansive Spellstrike but yeah that's about it

[warped orbit]

You're mostly meant to Spellstrike with cantrips is the thing

Gouging Claw and Ignition still work fine for that

Expansive Spellstrike also kinda gives up one of the main benefits of Spellstrike

[barren cipher]

if you buff expansive then starlit span will be laughing all the way to the bank

[warped orbit]

Probably
But conversely I feel like Expansive Spellstrime isn't actually that useful a lot of the time currently

Starlit gets the most use out of it from getting to effectively cast spells from different angles or increased range

[limber comet]

Oh hey

Arcane cascade got updated on Nexus

It's basically the same except if the spell doesn't have a damage type, it's force

[thorny berry]

expansive seems kinda dire with non-legendary dc tbh

unless you know you're really nailing a low save

[warped orbit]

It just generally isn't much better than just casting the spell normally and Striking

Unless you really need the action compression now and don't mind spending the extra action to recharge

[frank crystal]

So how would y’all word a feat that basically allows you to bond with a chosen weapon to them summon it later?

Because the bonding portion is like, over a rest

But the summoning is only gonna be one action

[rustic cape]

Honestly, although it's not convention for PF2e, I think you should take a page from Lancer's formatting

[warped orbit]

look at the Magus' Spirit Sheath

[rustic cape]

"Over the course of a rest you can bond with XYZ weapon. As long as you are bonded with XYZ weapon you can use the ABC action. [Then describe the ABC action in a subheader.]"

[warped orbit]

Soulforger is also kinda long those lines

[frank crystal]

I will

[frank crystal]

Also yah I do really like how lancer formats these kinda things

[frank crystal]

Hmm, spirit sheath mentions a specific action (spellstrike) to draw the weapon

Maybe in turn I can mention barbarian rage?

Like when you rage the weapon is added to a free hand?

Probably not interaction so you can suddenly be AOOed when you rage now though

[barren cipher]

there's also soulforger

which for a level 2 and level 6 feat does it for free when you roll initiative

[trail nova]

New thing I hate about skill proficiency increases: you get 2 increases with expert as the cap, 4 with master, and 3 with legendary. Why is it not even. Why.

[frank crystal]

Oh yah I can do that too

[frank crystal]

Huh, barb instincts are a lot simpler then I realized

Just a modification to the rage damage, a buff to that damage later and some innate resistances

[unborn rain]

they do get feats

which do some more different things

like Giant Barb can get biiig and Dragon Barb can get a breath weapon

[frank crystal]

True

So for gore instinct I want them to be like giant, being even more reduced defenses for extra damage

But instead of AC for higher flat damage I kinda wanna go for like, health for persistent damage

[unborn rain]

You could even give them lesser flat health?

like 10 instead of 12 for class hp

[frank crystal]

Is that fine for a subclass to change?

[unborn rain]

You are god and the world is yours to change.

But like, as long as the math works out it should be fine what you do

[frank crystal]

Fair

But also admittedly that does feel like

Kinda boring

I think it’s better to have this be a feat instead of a part of the subclass

But I do wanna implement something of like, free action when you rage to go into an even stronger rage

But your health drains each round

You take like a d4 (scaling) each turn

[barren cipher]

i think that's tough to balance to the extent that when it was a defining kineticist mechanic in 1e they just sacked it off completely

[frank crystal]

It was?

[turbid dagger]

Yeah kineticist has Burn
Reducing their max HP as they used Powers

*had

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

Still, I do kinda wanna explore that space

For if no other reason then like

It’s homebrew

I’m allowed a bit of leeway to be experimental

Also quick question, are there enlarging elixirs alchemist can make?

A player wants to play one focused around that concept

[barren cipher]

fury cocktail has an option for enlarging

[frank crystal]

Nice

[barren cipher]

i don't think it's great though, let me check

[frank crystal]

It just seems to be enlarge

Titanic Yuzu juice and powdered giant hair are added to this cocktail. If you're Medium or smaller, you gain the following effects: you become Large, are clumsy 1, and increase your reach by 5 feet (or by 10 feet if you started out Tiny).

Become large, get reach, clumsy 1

[barren cipher]

oh god no it's terrible

[frank crystal]

Oh

[barren cipher]

the -1ac and -2 reflex untyped penalties absolutely kill it

[frank crystal]

Wait -2 reflex?

It’s only clumsy 1

[barren cipher]

fury cocktail has -1ac untyped as a drawback

so you get -2 ac and -3 reflex saves

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

[barren cipher]

for large

[frank crystal]

Oh that sucks

Yah this sucks

[barren cipher]

and a +2 item bonus to hit (it's +1 really because people have weapon potency runes)

[frank crystal]

Is there anything better for enlarging?

[barren cipher]

if you're already a giant barb and you just wanna go super all in it's a little better

enlarge spell, pretty much

[frank crystal]

Damn

Also for gore barb, I think I should think smaller for the instinct itself

I can save the more weird ideas for feats

For the subclass itself I think I’m just gonna go like, dragon type midlane damage bonus with an extra damage against bleeding targets

And the resistance will be for slashing, piercing and blood (a tag made for the homebrew)

[surreal basin]

Imo the way burn or a burn like mechanic would ideally work is like

Actual damage for an effect that you don’t mind being healed

But if you want it to be a permanentish thing like burn was, then drained is the best idea

[frank crystal]

Oh yah the damage was never supposed to be permanent

Just like, damage you take

Would like, 3 feats be good for a barb instinct?

Of various levels of course

[barren cipher]

there's a broad format, there are a couple of exceptions but most people get them on schedule

[frank crystal]

Oh what is it?

[barren cipher]

6 and 12 with usually one or two scattered around for the most part

they have like... 2-4 instinct feats each

except fury instinct because, you know

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[frank crystal]

Because it’s bad

[frank crystal]

Wait I just realized

The barbarian resistances don’t specify how much you resists the damage

Just that you do now

How do you know how much to reduce it by?

[frank crystal]

Oh

Good to know

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D_oCITwWFJzuF0ul5rGlgrmeYHz2_DeybRIRUnMYDD8/edit

How does this look?

[turbid dagger]

It likely the most mechanically dry instinct aside from basic frenzy but it seems like it Works

[frank crystal]

Yah admittedly I do feel like it needs some spice

[solar tendon]

I think the feats make the real difference

[frank crystal]

Yah I do hope those make it more interesting to play

[solar tendon]

like I wouldn't really call this that much dryer than draconic

when you're just looking at the instinct abilities themselves

[frank crystal]

Rn I’ve got an idea for basically storing a weapon inside you by making it one with your body

A free action when you rage to go into a boiling rage where you take damage every turn but gain some extra bonus

And an evolution feat for that rage that gives you a meta strike that gives temp HP while you’re in that rage

So far anyway

[turbid dagger]

I'm playing a depressed catboy in season of ghosts, it has been decided
He trained for years to travel west and study in the great military academies of Lung Wa, to become a famous general
But then Lung Wa collapsed right before he left town
So he's been spending the last two years in a fugue using his magus training to perform minor magic and haul shit around at the docks for a living

[strange nest]

Magus seems cool

I really wanna play a laughing shadow when I get the chance

[turbid dagger]

Laughing Shadow seems neat
A bit sad you can't combo it well with monk stances but for all the knife stabbers out there it seems fun

I took Twisting Tree because I really love staff fighting

[strange nest]

Not really sure how to spread stats for a dex focus, since Laughing shadow also wants to feint a bit

Mainly for distracting spellstrike

[turbid dagger]

The secret is that int barely matters on magus unless you want it too
So you can just go dex cha

[strange nest]

Perhaps I simply overestimated how often you would want to sling a cantrip at range

[worthy stump]

you usually want to avoid that, yeah. not only will Int generally be lower than your physical attack stat, your proficiency is also lower most of the time, and you lose out on the attack bonus from potency runes

investing in Int does open up save spells as a (usually secondary) option, but it's not strictly needed. especially now that cantrip damage doesn't scale off it anymore

[frank crystal]

Yah in my experience magus’s really are best when you just, don’t cast spells and primarily just spellstrike and normal attack on the turns when you can’t spellstrike

If a spell isn’t for spellstrike it should be for utility like teleportation

[worthy stump]

mhm

on an unrelated note, i'd recommend Endless Grimoires and Rings of Wizardry to every magus. the extra lower level spells really help you round out your preps for day, alongside the Studious Spells feature

[turbid dagger]

Now, what I will say is
A surprising amount of spell attacks, especially early on, are like
Only barely better than the melee cantrips
Because they are typically meant to be cast at range while gouging claw is up close and personal
Where casters other than magus never want to be
So filling your slots with non spellstrike spells can be wise
You just need to take buffs, utility, or some shit like magic missile
Stuff that does not involve rolls

(this is especially true now that The Early Game Spell Slot Spellstrike Spell, Shocking Grasp, is outdated/gone, and the melee cantrips went from d6+mod to 2d6 base)

[frank crystal]

Wait shocking grasp is full on gone?

It’s not a spell anymore?

[turbid dagger]

It was not printed in player core 1
It was 'replaced' with thunderstrike
A Save Spell

[worthy stump]

mhm. nothing stopping you from just using the OG, though, it wasn't explicitly replaced

[frank crystal]

Ah shit

[limber comet]

There's literally nothing stopping you from still using it

[frank crystal]

I still will then

[limber comet]

Good! Shocking Grasp is fun

[turbid dagger]

It just feels weird
Like
Why is it not in the player core
But yeah, you can still use it
After all, Magus isn't remastered either

I'm still hoping that we get like
Some return to magus with a load of remastered spell attack spells

A hybrid study is coming in tian xia and that

[strange nest]

Hope we get a little more variety in damage types with spellstrike compatible cantrips in the future

Gouge and Ignition are good, but sometimes you’ll be fighting resistant or immune enemies

[worthy stump]

shocking grasp is OGL, iirc, hence the name change on reprint. no clue why they made it a save spell now, though. presumably so it's generally useful for non-magus casters, i guess

[turbid dagger]

Magi are eating with the change to cantrips tho
The death of spell mod to damage is nice
But yeah the amount of spell attacks are like, startlingly low
According to a reddit post I saw while looking stuff up earlier there's like 4 spellstrikeable spells in PC1

Excluding cantrips

[strange nest]

oh good lord

[worthy stump]

yeah. there already weren't that many non-cantrip attack spells before, now there's even less

[turbid dagger]

So if you are in a group that does not want to use old CRB stuff you are kind of doing uhhhh
'power strike martial who can self buff'

[worthy stump]

to be fair

Magus is old rulebook stuff, so very strange to use that in a remaster-only game, haha

[frank crystal]

Yah like, at minimum you also have all the secrets of magic stuff if you’re allowing magus

Which like, there’s gotta be more there

[turbid dagger]

I more mean
In theory PC1 is intended to be a straight replacement for the CRB

[frank crystal]

If there isn’t I will eat a shoe

[strange nest]

feels like expansive spellstrike might become built-in for remaster magus

[frank crystal]

Magus isn’t getting remastered

[turbid dagger]

Yeah

Oddly
As theres a hybrid study in tian xia

[frank crystal]

All the secrets of magic stuff isn’t getting changed

[frank crystal]

Which one?

[strange nest]

ah, silly me

forgot

[turbid dagger]

Name has not been announced yet
But its been confirmed

[worthy stump]

oh, did they confirm that SoM stuff isn't getting remastered?

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[turbid dagger]

But yeah my basic brain worms are:
There will be no Remastered Secrets Of Magic
So Secrets of Magic is the Current Rulebook for the rules presented within
PC1 is Remastered CRB
So shocking grasp not being included feels like a Choice
Yeah yeah the OGL stuff demands a rename but they could have called it like
Volt Punch

[frank crystal]

Lighting fist

Electrical hold

Charged strike

[turbid dagger]

Regardless
Very excited to play my magus
The GM plans on getting me in at a specific moment so I'm just watching the rest of the group like

[strange nest]

I wish you the best of luck on your spell-slinging journey

[frank crystal]

I hope you roll many spell strike crits

[turbid dagger]

God wouldn't let this man miss a spellstrike

[strange nest]

Oh, also wanted ask what kind of stuff a shadow magus could add to their kit to help avoid opportunity attacks, facilitate hit-and-run tactics, and otherwise improve survivability

[turbid dagger]

Rogue dedication seems like a natural fit
Gets you sneak attack to stack with your cascade benefit, Mobility to scoot around without proccing, and Skirmish strike
Alongside stuff like Nimble Dodge

[worthy stump]

mhm, for sure

[turbid dagger]

That said, 'cast a spell from spellstrike provokes AoO' is an ever present issue that you cannot really avoid

[strange nest]

doh

[turbid dagger]

Look out for dudes with polearms or other long weapons

Not everyone has AoO

[strange nest]

Yeah, that’s why I’ve been checking the arcane list for stuff that shuts down reactions

just in case

[worthy stump]

crushing despair is a great AoE option for shutting down reactions at rank 5

even on a save success it blocks reactions for one round

[frank crystal]

Hmm, how would y’all think a shield gun could work mechanically?

Like a hybrid weapon but instead of a gun+a melee weapon it’s a gun+a shield

Albeit one that can still be used as an improvised bludgeon just not well

[eager mountain]

pretty sure this exists

[frank crystal]

Oh

Nevermind then

What is it?

[eager mountain]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=354

you attach it to a shield

[frank crystal]

Damn ok then that’s literally

Exactly what I need lol

[solar storm]

I love how often that happens

[frank crystal]

Also honestly this seems like the best “attached to a shield” weapon for an average sword and board build

You don’t need a spike or bludgeon when you have a sword that does more damage

But an occasional ranged attack is actually useful

[worthy stump]

seems like a pain to reload, though

[frank crystal]

Like every few days I come in here asking for help making an incredibly niche thing only to find out it’s not only already in the game but serves an important niche in a build

[frank crystal]

I mean yah but like, it’s better then not having it

There’s no downside to my knowledge

Even if you do end up only using it once per combat

[worthy stump]

mhm

[craggy thunder]

I mean there’s the stance that make shield boss & spike attacks agile

Flurry sword & board Ranger go whack

[frank crystal]

That’s fair yah

Though if you don’t do that I still think the shield pistol is better

[craggy thunder]

eh, fair

[frank crystal]

If only you could attach all three to a shield

Then you could really fuck some people up

[silver geyser]

I am here for the Liefeldian shield.

[frank crystal]

I looked up what that was and got this

[silver geyser]

Fun!

I'm referring to a 90s comic artist who drew some...

interesting things.

[frank crystal]

Oh no

90s comic artist almost always lead to something bad

OH SHIT THIS WAS THE GUY WHO DREW THE TERRIBLE CAPTAIN AMERICA COVER

[turbid dagger]

I will say
Shield boss is d6 and does blunt damage
I played Sundered Waves recently and the premade I picked's shield boss actually came somewhat in clutch

[turbid dagger]

Also yes
Wardrobe chest cap

[strange nest]

Oh shit you can play as Sackboy

Poppet ancestry

thats so awesome I love sackboy

[strange nest]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-joy-little-big-planet-sackboy-gif-27302665

[turbid dagger]

What class would he be

God (you) is on his side so maybe cleric

[ocean cobalt]

witchwarper

[fossil temple]

The wiki says: This deity is chaotic evil
But my dumbass neutral good character says:
"Nha :)"

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Kabriri context:
Ghoul Kobold that needs to worship him for cool powers
but
he's a good boy

[solar tendon]

hey, alignment is dead

and this is not really hard to follow

just go like Blade and eat other ghouls

[fossil temple]

Exactly

If Pirates can be merry
so a bunch of kobold ghouls

[eager mountain]

IIRC , ghouls only like living flesh

and ghouls arent living

[solar tendon]

oh no

uhh

eat evil ppl

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/leonardo-dicaprio-shrug-shrugging-oh-well-smiling-gif-27275540

fair enough

[solar tendon]

evil kobolds specifically

[eager mountain]

uhhh eat the rich

[solar tendon]

oh shiiit

eat DRAGONS

[eager mountain]

ask everyone how much money they have EVERY TIME

[fossil temple]

YES

LITERALLY EAT THE RICH KOBOLD GHOUL GANG

[eager mountain]

then you hear that the kalistocrats are in town

https://tenor.com/view/chihuahua-excited-licking-nose-gif-18797901

[fossil temple]

Exactly

[strange nest]

Probably something with abilities for jumping and/or creation

[turbid dagger]

Witchwarper seems right
Reality editing

[frank crystal]

Gonna use these guys as the basis for the look of my prison cult’s look

[sinful gyro]

If your players are okay with that

I might give a content warning

[strange nest]

I wonder if these cultists hold certain beliefs about other groups

[frank crystal]

We are fans of hellsing but probably

[frank crystal]

when I reference this it’s purely the Catholic version not the American version

[strange nest]

Ah, my bad

[turbid dagger]

Yeah these are vatican soldiers in hellsing right

[frank crystal]

Yah

[strange nest]

It’s a shame when a cool design or symbol ends up being associated with hate

[frank crystal]

It’s pulling from the capirote, a Spanish Catholic cone hat draped with robes for ceremonies

[frank crystal]

I mean it does originate from Spanish Catholics

So it was very much already associated with that just more historical hate instead of modern ones

It’s more like pulling from the Roman Empire then fascist Italy

[strange nest]

I suppose so

Plenty of fantasy works draw imagery from the knights templar and crusades without anyone batting an eye

[craggy thunder]

that being said

[fossil temple]

That's the kind of enemy that you gain good karma for killing it

[craggy thunder]

probably also drawing from that more modern hateful group with that design in Hellsing's case

[frank crystal]

I mean maybe, I don’t know what the author was thinking when he drew it, but honestly looking at pictures of the capirote and it’s pretty spot on

Like they really do just wear these

The only real change is it being shorter

[frank crystal]

Also yah it is very much like, these guards are meant to be bastards

They effector worship the the worst possible prison

It’s an endless dungeon where the prisoners are trapped in isolation from one another and forced to survive off scraps

And now they’re being told to kill each other

Even ignoring the modern look those cone hats give, the historical look is still supposed to be bad

[strange nest]

Damn, Time Jump is pretty cool

[warped orbit]

it's very good yeah

excellent emergency move once you can afford to spend some 3rd levels on it

[strange nest]

and because it gives you two separate move actions, you could use it to stride in, spellstrike, and stride out

if you’re playin magus

[warped orbit]

I don't think you can take a different action during Time Jump

[strange nest]

You’d think so, but the way it’s worded separates it from pretty much every similar effect

[warped orbit]

While you're taking these actions, you can't take any other actions, including any that would be triggered by the move actions.

[rustic cape]

Can we all just take a moment to acknowledge that “Laughing Shadow” is an outrageously cool name

[strange nest]

I believe these are to prevent triggered free actions and reactions, since otherwise it functions exactly the same as other “stride twice” abilities, but with way more complex wording

[frank crystal]

It is yah

[warped orbit]

yes, that's basically what it does

you move twice for one action, and also don't provoke any reactions

[barren cipher]

yeah, they really ought to say 'immediately after casting time jump'

the language for time stop is right there

[warped orbit]

it's great for getting up from Prone and then Striding away IME

especially if your opponent has AOO

[strange nest]

Was there an errata I missed? Cause it really feels like you’re supposed to be allowed to split the moves.

still good either way

But just not quite as interesting on magus

[strange nest]

goddamn magus eats up actions

[warped orbit]

it sure does

[solar thorn]

They're hungry bois

But when it works...

[strange nest]

Particularly stumped on setting up Cascade

[warped orbit]

generally you can either Spellstrike every other turn, or play Starlit

[warped orbit]

well depending on your Study, Cascade might not even be that important to you

[solar thorn]

My magus player tends to activate cascade turn one after initiating with a ranged cantrip

Or on turn 2 after dimensional assault into force fang

[warped orbit]

two conflux spells together?

[solar thorn]

Wait a minute
You're right
I may need to go check that

Or they stride and forcefang? I think they're not cheating that hard

[solar tendon]

I don't think there's anything stopping you

it's just inefficient

[warped orbit]

I mean they could do it yeah

it's just a bit inefficient focus point wise

[solar thorn]

Oh, fair.

[strange nest]

This seems like the way to do it

that or a buff

or blazing dive

Radahn style

I think I saw a houserule or homebrew once that made Cascade a free action, but it ended next round unless you cast another spell. Don’t know about balance but it is kinda neat conceptually

[rustic cape]

how can it be a free action it’s over 13 minutes long

[strange nest]

Oh shit, the lightning domain spells are rad

Bottle the Storm is just straight up a lightning reversal

https://youtu.be/NzFMLVD7oBk?si=KYmqStAVFfgvcZq9

[light gyro]

tempted to slip this into my campaign on an enemy to jumpscare my draw-the-lightning magus

[echo briar]

I’m guessing rovagug or Abadar

[solar thorn]

Erastil's too boring to kill, could be him

(I like erastil and worshipped him in my WoTR game, just like, what happens if he bites it)

[silver geyser]

Well, community is one of his domains.

That will be fun to damage if he bites it.

[echo briar]

Rovagug and Abadar just seem like their deaths would make the setting worse (unless like me you like simulating economic theory to determine the price of a longsword in each and every settlement)

[solar thorn]

Deleted because it felt flippant

[silver geyser]

Hey, things suddenly becoming Points of Light is very interesting.

[strange nest]

As a gm I’d probably let this bypass a Blue Dragon’s electricity immunity because it’s badass lol

[barren cipher]

immunity's bullshit anyway

[strange nest]

https://youtu.be/v7-OuFZ5bdA?si=R86ZNx66X7cQMMSA&t=2m56s

[strange nest]

(And also very situational, especially when you account for the “deals element damage and is immune to own element” type enemies)

[clever cobalt]

Here's how Geb can still win

[frank crystal]

How big are Minotaurs in Golarion?

[barren cipher]

large

[frank crystal]

I more meant in feet and inches

[barren cipher]

that's anyone's guess

they don't do tables for that any more, i don't think there's one for pf1

a large creature is double the bulk of a medium one, so we can guess that it's gonna be somewhat less than twice the size and weight i suppose?

[frank crystal]

Fair enough

It’s just one of those things where like, I want to describe someone as a really big guy but it’s a fantasy setting so your villainous big guys need to compare to the largest thing a player can be

And rn that’s gonna be Minotaurs soon

Like I can’t just describe someone as particularly big when Minotaurs are playable and are like, baseline 10 feet tall

[barren cipher]

if they have a big guy with them then i'd just use that as the baseline then

if your big guy's fists are each bigger than their big guy's head, horns included, they will get the message

[frank crystal]

That’s true yah. I guess it does only really matter so long as the players PCs are like, smaller

[barren cipher]

there are some old tables back from 3.5 with, uh

substantial ranges

[frank crystal]

What are the tables?

[barren cipher]

large goes 8'-16' 500-4000lb
huge goes 16'-32' 4000-32000lb

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#tableCreatureSizeAndScale

[frank crystal]

That feels a little extreme lol

I feel like once you go into 16 feet tall you are no longer just considered large

[strange nest]

Getting into that point of buildcrafting where nothing feels quite right because I just can’t look past the jank even though it’s not that bad

why am I like this

I want expansive spellstrike to use a bunch of cool lightning spells as a laughing shadow but I also need focus points and I wouldn’t be able to take force fang and I’d want good Int for my spell dc but I also want distracting spellstrike which means feinting so I need good deception and I’ll still only have 1 focus point and

gamer numbers brain

[tough perch]

i know the pain

honestly, i think laughing shadow is spread too thin

not underpowered by any means, but each piece of it wants you to focus on something different

probably easier now that you don't actually need int for modifier damage on spellstrikes, but it's still frustrating that you want to focus on int for spells and on charisma for feints, and neither is your kas

and you can't neglect dex, but also want strength

[turbid dagger]

My honest take is
Expansive Spellstrike changes spellstrike to 'autohit a spell if you land a strike' to 'save one action by casting a spell with your bad dc as you strike, with a chance you miss the strike and waste the spell anyway'
I personally would take force fang and just go full dex/cha, but

[strange nest]

I feel like making Distracting Spellstrike use your int instead of cha for the feint could help, given that it already gains the arcane and illusion traits, and is thematically supposed to be you using “distracting magic with one hand to enhance your spellstrike”

technically this is allowed raw

[warped orbit]

just dump Int tbh

Magus doesn't really need it that much

another thing with Laughing Shadow btw is also that you can just go Str

you don't actually need to be unarmored or use Dex

[frank crystal]

Yah arguably laughing shadow is the best generic hybrid studies

If you aren’t using something that warrants using one of the other ones laughing shadows is the play

[tough perch]

while that works i kinda feel awful to dump my casting stat

like i wouldn't ever say laughing shadow is bad, but it is thematically frustrating

[warped orbit]

you don't even need to be onehanded really
like, 2h Str Laughing Shadow is still good, just by virtue of Dimensional Assault

[tough perch]

man i really wish we had an official eldritch scion class archetype

[turbid dagger]

This is where I draw the line
Like dump int yeah
Str Shadow yeah
But I dunno
I just shiver thinking about throwing away all that flat damage
That's just my personal tastes tho

[warped orbit]

I mean yeah you don't get the extra flat damage, but your Strikes also just do more damage by virtue of bigger dice

[solar tendon]

you're not throwing it away if you have a higher damage dice sdgjfjg

[warped orbit]

and you don't need to be in Cascade and have the target be flat footed

[solar tendon]

still get the speed buff

even wear armour and still get a speed buff

[warped orbit]

the speed buff ironically is also very good at counteracting heavy armor penalty haha

[solar tendon]

and if you want to dump int and go str two handed

inexorable iron is actually kinda awkward

cause thunderous strike is a save

[turbid dagger]

I know its roughly the same potential damage
But the FLAT damage
My soul is broken and I expect 1s and 2s from d12 dice
But the 3/5/7 flat will never leave me

[solar tendon]

I mean it's still recharge spellstrike and make an attack but

[ocean cobalt]

i feel like shadow wants agile weapons at least a little bit tho

so you can spellstrike and dimension on the same turn

are there any 2h agile weapons actually

[warped orbit]

don't think so?

I know there is no agile weapon with a die larger than a d8 at least

[solar tendon]

whipstaff

[warped orbit]

there is exactly one agile 2h weapon

the whipstaff yeah

[ocean cobalt]

quick search shows wh. yeah

[solar tendon]

oh

sweep and agile

[ocean cobalt]

oh that's@something

[solar tendon]

I didn't know there was a weapon for that!

[warped orbit]

poi have agile and backswing

[ocean cobalt]

hatchet

[solar tendon]

wild

[ocean cobalt]

and finesse damn

[solar tendon]

the bayonet is also technically an agile 2 handed weapon when it's on a 2 handed firearm xP

[silver geyser]

If you're going to go Poi, I say bite the bullet and get the Advanced Fire Poi.

Which are just kickass weapons.

[warped orbit]

fire poi are very funny yeah

[ocean cobalt]

"that can't possibly be worth the f- oh that sure is an agile 2d4 twin weapon"

[warped orbit]

well not quite

[echo briar]

Do you think there's a particular balance reason there's not agile reach weapon, or is it just "long things can't be used that quickly"

[warped orbit]

because the extra fire doesn't scale with Striking runes

[warped orbit]

well, they are basically the two best weapon traits

[echo briar]

yea, but I would expect at least a d4 one hander, or a d8 two hander

[ocean cobalt]

oh jellyfish stance doesnt have agile wild

[echo briar]

each one reduces the die by one, so you should just be able to reduce it by 2

[ocean cobalt]

i think those two together would be more than the sum of their parts in that respect

[tough perch]

d6 two hander agile reach

[ocean cobalt]

does kind of discourage movement actually

which isn't a power thing but it does seem like a thing they wouldnt want to do

what are some fun 3rd and 4th level arcane spells that aren't already on a studious spells list

like some favorites

[worthy stump]

assuming this is for a Magus?

[ocean cobalt]

yeah, homebrew hybrid study

[solar tendon]

I think there was a mathematical analysis on r/pathfinder2e that basically showed that agile is not really worth the damage loss in standard situations

[worthy stump]

Invisibility Sphere, Wall of Wind, and Blazing Dive would be my suggestions

[warped orbit]

I think agile is better than one die step, but not better than just using a way bigger weapon usually

[solar tendon]

I think it specifically tracked stuff like rapier vs shortsword

ie deadly d6 vs agile

[warped orbit]

interesting

I would have still expected agile to win out slightly

[solar tendon]

double slice made agile worth

[warped orbit]

Double Slice definitely does

[solar tendon]

as did making a non-damaging Attack as your first attack (combat maneuvers)

[warped orbit]

Fighter also has stuff like Agile Grace

for mini Flurry edge

[solar tendon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/r5z40g/comment/hmswhbj/

data

[turbid dagger]

I'm bad at math but I've always been curious how agile grace fighter compares to flurry ranger, given fighters plus two

[solar tendon]

there's a lot of situations it doesn't cover but it basically bares out that without more specific support agile doesn't beat out better die or deadly

which is kinda frustrating for me cause I read it after having advising my partner to use agile attacks for their followups as an animal barbarian

and barbs lose even more damage to get agile

[warped orbit]

mostly makes sense to me

[strange nest]

Raaahh lightning tengu magus!!!

[solar tendon]

like going from d10 -> d6 and losing half your rage damage for agile is not a good trade unfortunately :T which kinda makes it feel like a trap option

that like half the options have

[warped orbit]

yeah it's a bit odd

[solar tendon]

but then yknow deer exists so small potatoes

however knowing this I still do the agile followups just to feel something

[turbid dagger]

I'm a defeatist so if I have access to an agile option I still take it
Because my soul tells me that if I don't I will miss by 1
Not on barb though we ball as barb

[frank crystal]

So until starfinder is out, if I wanted to give a enemy power armor you think just stealing form inventor is good enough?

[rustic cape]

For sure

[trail nova]

I forgot that a 1e AP minigame codifies a "DMB" for "Dance maneuver bonus"

[strange nest]

Are you planning for the players to be able to get their hands on it, or does it come with a self-destruct feature?

[frank crystal]

Self destruct yah

I don’t want them suddenly getting their hands on inventor features

[thorny berry]

Honestly very little about armor inventor's mechanics actually suggest power armor imo

[frank crystal]

I mean there’s the whole overdrive feature

[thorny berry]

I suppose though mechanically isn't it just 'spend one action and now you have more damage'

Which especially on an enemy doesn't seem like it conveys much flavorwise

[surreal basin]

Starfinder will also legit have power armor

[strange nest]

makes sense, though I suppose you could just make its features very limited on a non-inventor and/or require batteries or something that only power it for a day

[frank crystal]

Yah but unfortunately I can’t steal from what’s not released yet

[frank crystal]

I mean giving players features from another class always get a bit messy

Even if it’s limited

[frank crystal]

I guess that’s fair but then there’s stuff like the explosive stuff it also unlocks

Like that’s going deeper into inventor but imo that’s very power armor

Venting heat from the engine

[ocean cobalt]

there are some enemies with cool stances i think

[frank crystal]

I love enemies with stances

[strange nest]

stances are just cool in general

[frank crystal]

They are!

Though imo they’re only good if an enemy has multiple

For players it’s fine but enemies it doesn’t really make sense to give them a stance unless there’s some choice to it

Like I had a boss who cycled through 3 different stances with different actions and reactions before going into a big attack that hits every player

[rustic cape]

Love bosses like that

[frank crystal]

They’re so cool

[surreal basin]

If you’re giving an enemy power armor

Then just give them some unique features to reflect that

If you wanna give it to a player I’d say maybe make a unique suit of fortress plate?

[frank crystal]

Yah if anything I could just make this one self destruct but give them the opportunity to get it latter at a higher level

When the stuff it comes with is more balanced

(Though I will mention it probably won’t be fortress plate this is meant to be extremely mobile and agile power armor not brick shithouse power armor)

More vanquish then space marine

Probably would rather choose a super buffer up version of like, leather laminar

Though changed to plate instead of composite

I just realized, does the soaring armor rune improve the winged armor rune?

[trail nova]

I discovered an interesting way to freak out PCs from the WftC AP: "Here, have this minor bonus when dealing with [Insert obscure monster]" as a reward for doing something entirely unrelated.

Book has a moment where you get to look at the PCs and go "You get a +2 to perception and innitative against Walconfides"

[trail nova]

Time to either start screaming to the world, or go running.

[silver geyser]

Time to relocate then fight.

[frank crystal]

Charter the first carriage out of there immediately

[limber comet]

"I'm in Lastwall? Damn."

Also honestly

Golarion is generally one of the safer elfgame settings

[strange nest]

I have allowed Magus and their fairly limited selection of spells that benefit them befuddle me for far too long today

[frank crystal]

Honestly feels like it fluctuates

[strange nest]

maybe I’ll just do a fighter and wait for a shock rune or something

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/blinking-eyes-white-guy-blinking-meme-what-huh-gif-26334323

[frank crystal]

Like yah Forgotten Realms is probably on average more dangerous

[eager mountain]

• staring at the wierd lights coming from the lake near by *

[frank crystal]

But I feel like Golarion goes through near apocalypses more often

[eager mountain]

before im zombified by the necromantic fucking nuke that goes off

[surreal basin]

I feel like I could become like

A classed character within the world

[frank crystal]

I absolutely could not lol

[eager mountain]

the reason being in last wall at that time is becuase thats when the whispering tyrant took it

[surreal basin]

Just in terms of learning to cast some spells or like

Worship a god

[frank crystal]

I would be that -1 dude that the GM throws in because they wanna use something other then the commoner statblock

[surreal basin]

I feel like I’m strong willed enough to become a cleric

:3

Not a martial tho

[eager mountain]

I question to much to become a cleric.

[surreal basin]

I’d die if someone swung at me

[eager mountain]

and im too out of shape to be a fighter

and im definantly to adhd to be a wizard

[frank crystal]

You accidentally become a cleric of Nethys

[eager mountain]

and im not a psychic

or have magic blood

tho who knows what happens when your fuckin isikai'd

could gain a class lol

[frank crystal]

Being isekaied could mean like

Instant oracle powers

It depends

[eager mountain]

man , i was hit by a taco truck , now Im in geb.

[frank crystal]

Honestly, the easiest class may be becoming a summoner

[strange nest]

Thaumaturge seems like one of the easier classes to become

oddly enough

[frank crystal]

Because depending on the eidolon it’s mostly painless

Like if you get a construct eidolon you found/made a cool sentient robot

[surreal basin]

Well

Thaum has to find an implement

[strange nest]

Or just make em

[limber comet]

I could probably be a pretty rad witch

[frank crystal]

An implement can be like, anything you find that fits a theme though

Like the mirror implement doesn’t have to be a special mirror

It can any mirror

[limber comet]

I'm not super smart but I imagine it's not terribly hard especially with the guidance of a patron

[frank crystal]

The problem with witch is that the beings that give people power are also the beings that generally want something of those people they give power

Like it’s inherently dangerous to bargain for power with a extraplanar being

[limber comet]

Mmm

Yeah

But

Fuck it. We ball

[frank crystal]

TRUE!

Hey if you want please sign this contract

You’ll get divine spells

[limber comet]

Definitely not a fiend

[frank crystal]

I am legally not allowed to say no

[surreal basin]

I imagine getting isekai’d would probably instill you with

SOME kinda magic

[frank crystal]

There’s a background for this I think

[limber comet]

I mean with a devil at least things are relatively cut and dry

[frank crystal]

Yah honestly devil pacts are nothing if not specific

[limber comet]

A fey might just say "lol" and I dunno. Give you twenty toes or something

[strange nest]

Just read carefully and double check for shenanigans

[limber comet]

Y'know, for funsies

[frank crystal]

Yah it’s the Fey you really gotta watch out for

Devils will spend thousands of pages listing out every aspect of the contract

[surreal basin]

Dumb/Cool thing: Spec Ops Fantasy Squads

[frank crystal]

Fey make vague promises based on rules nobody but themselves know

[frank crystal]

Honestly that’s my setting’s entire thing

[surreal basin]

It’s also kinda….. what adventuring parties ARE on thought

[frank crystal]

Ehh I do feel like there’s a different vibe

[strange nest]

Oops, you called this guy the wrong name, now one of the eldest literally owns you

[frank crystal]

Yah nobody knows what their rules are besides them

You gotta walk a minefield except it’s not even labeled a mine field

And also the mines don’t kill you they just make you suffer

[strange nest]

Social faux pas? Spin thread for 3 seasons

[frank crystal]

And that’s the best possible punishment

[silver geyser]

Actually, their laws are easily understood, they're just antiquated and hard to reference

[limber comet]

They fey only know them because the fey don't write them down, they just memorize that shit

And getting a fey to elaborate on rules is like trying to play a VN with ADHD

Really, really hard

[solar storm]

John Briggs West isekai where he ruins the fairyland legal norms by printing and disseminating fae caselaw

[frank crystal]

Lawyer goes to the Feywild and after being unfairly arrested pleas his case all the way to the Fey royal court and gets an official legal system established

[limber comet]

There is an official legal system, it's just kinda zany and confusing

...moreso than usual

[frank crystal]

He reforms the legal system

[limber comet]

Though there are a lot more legal loopholes I'd bet

You get out of a murder charge via having a specific flower garland on your head

Tax evasion is still a run ender though

[solar storm]

West basically started printing caselaw in the US so it was way easier to get read up on precedent for context

[turbid dagger]

The gods didn't even do that I'm not sure if it'll work out

[strange nest]

He’s a really good lawyer

[echo briar]

In fact, my prediction is that this is what will kill Abadar in the next godsrain prophecy

[limber comet]

Huh, were the laws super hard to find beforehand?

[solar storm]

Comparatively yeah

[silver geyser]

Considering the different levels of court, 100%

[limber comet]

What year? Do you know?

I'm genuinely curious

[solar storm]

West started publishing in 1876

There were reporters for various courts before then but the country was a lot more regionalized before then and the reporters were a lot more localized

[frank crystal]

I believe in him

[limber comet]

Hm! Neat

Thank you for the fun info Cyan :]

[solar storm]

Haha, my pleasure

https://csjd.agshareit.com/details?key=380450&agcn=3996&cid=CSJD&lid=CSJD

This is the first US case reporter IIRC and you can see how its a lot more limited and less well organized

[frank crystal]

Unrelated Cyan why is your name suddenly remix?

[solar storm]

Here’s Maryland you can see how it’s kind of a mess pre-West (Atlantic Reporter on this list)

Oh huh, its cause I used Discord's photo editor to make that image upright

IDK why it added it to my post

[frank crystal]

Huh

Weird

[strange nest]

Ooh, the spellhearts are cool for magus

[worthy stump]

mhm, extra cantrips are always good

[light gyro]

can you spellstrike with an item's Cast a Spell?

[solar tendon]

I'm pretty sure you can

[strange nest]

given that the activation is literally Cast a Spell as opposed to Interact, I think it works

[solar tendon]

the benefit of stuff like striker's scroll is not needing to draw the scroll etc

which spellhearts get around by being attached to your gear already

[strange nest]

(specifically for spellhearts wands staves scrolls and such)

If I do end up going for my lightning-centric Tengu Magus concept, I’ll probably try to ask the gm if I could have an electric version of Ignition or Gouging Claw or something

Student of Hei Feng type deal

Other things I’ve heard people do, mainly after the remaster, is just give Expansive Spellstrike for free, or make the targets save depend on the attack roll but only for cantrips.

[rustic cape]

Free expansive Spellstrike is honestly probably fine

[thorny berry]

yup, big reason that twisting tree is good

[limber comet]

Magus rocks so hard

Also Spellhearts are just good in general

[strange nest]

fr

I just wish they had a bit more versatility in damage types

and by that I mean I wish there was more electricity stuff raaaahhhhh!

[limber comet]

Also I might be misunderstanding but does the spell cast from the spellheart trigger the spellheart

[warped orbit]

yes

[limber comet]

Okay cool so any class can use a spellheart

Cuz if I'm not mistaken the cantrip counts

[warped orbit]

correct

[limber comet]

Okay cool :]

[solar storm]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siiq

Alarming Disappearance is a really funny feat

[unborn rain]

Yeah it'd be pretty terrifying if you lost sight of a minotaur

[solar tendon]

that is awesome

[clever cobalt]

Rogue Minotaur Meta

[barren cipher]

you do need a spellcasting class feature but that's all

it doesn't care what your tradition is

[warped orbit]

it's a bit unclear, because in several places the text mentions them like anyone can use them even without being a caster
but RAW yes you do need to be a spellcaster

I feel like the intent was that you don't need to be one though

[barren cipher]

yeah it's baffling honestly, it also doesn't break anything to let anyone use them

[thorny berry]

oh, those feats are cute

likewise,

looking forward to doing a sniper minotaur

[strange nest]

From experience, how does Magus’s first turn tend to play?

[tough perch]

depends on the situation

first thing to me was figuring out if this was to be a hard encounter or an easy one

if it was an easy one i'd just go wham on cantrip spellstrikes

if it was going to be hard i'd spend first turn getting a buff and cascade going

[strange nest]

yeah, getting cascade going seems the biggest hurdle to me

it’s a cool buff, but it’ll eat up your turn

and to be quite honest, I prefer diving straight into action

[eager mountain]

omen dragon

[scenic patio]

Damn looking crazy what book is this in ?

[eager mountain]

not in a book yet

https://youtu.be/6xGU4_kG6KM

[scenic patio]

Oh in the new monster book NICE NICE

[eager mountain]

adamantine

[scenic patio]

Big boy

[eager mountain]

conspiritor dragon

[carmine egret]

Ooo, are "light writers" a new thing?

[eager mountain]

devil boi

diabolic dragons fire breath can switch to spirit damage

if you have fire resistance

as a reaction it can also do mental damage to you if you strike it

all dragons have a reactive strike thing

the conspiritor can contort its body to avoid critical hits

as a reaction

[turbid dagger]

A lot of the paizo blogposts are phrased as someone in universe telling a story, at least at the start, but actually crediting them like they do the real writers is new iirc

[eager mountain]

what is a light writer?

[eager mountain]

this is true

[eager mountain]

also interesting lore thing

appearently thiers an implication that like diabolic dragons are .....embodyments of hell

like actual embodyments ofthe plane itself.

which has some interesting possibilities

Emperyal dragon

[clever cobalt]

Battlezoo Dragons expansion when? :v

[eager mountain]

lol so aside from the breathweapon the empyreal dragon can just chuck its halo at you

[carmine egret]

no I mean, the article has what looks like two early photographs labeled as "light writer plates"

[eager mountain]

like the dragon just chunks its whole halo at you , and can buff you or damage you with it I think

[turbid dagger]

Oh lmafo
Sorry sorry
I thought you meant the opposite of a shadow writer

[eager mountain]

its got an inspiring presence , that buffs allies. divine deflection ( resistance to all damage like a champion )

[turbid dagger]

But yes its in guns and gears

[eager mountain]

it can also " halo Pulse " which heals

Luis mentioned theres a boneyard dragon thats yet to be concepted

for the possible future

[clever cobalt]

Is this from the new Monster Manual?

[eager mountain]

yeah

[limber comet]

I'm thinking about making my antagonist "dieselpunk Senator Armstrong"

What country in Golarion is the most likely to spit out someone like Armstrong

[barren cipher]

cheliax seems a bit obvious

if he's dieselpunk, alkenstar works great

[limber comet]

Cheliax but it's a hellfire engine

[eager mountain]

oh i thoughtr you meant FMA armstrong

fortune dragon.

[limber comet]

Nah, Mr. Nanomachines himself

[eager mountain]

obviously he is a starfinder character

OH The fortune dragon sounds like my worst enemy

it can eat spells

ah the fortune dragon can shake themselves like a dog and fling all its gold off .

and then to replensh that, it leaps back into it hoard, and comes back covered in gold

[turbid dagger]

Alkenstar kind of makes sense
Its got a big 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' kind of attitude, especially among the wealthy
If someone is destitute, its because they lacked backbone/gumption/chutzpah or what have you
If they have prospered, its because they Deserve It

[limber comet]

And that tracks with the aesthetic I have in mind

[turbid dagger]

The fact that person A was born in a ditch and person B's father owns three solid gold airships does not factor in

[limber comet]

Yeah that's definitely good

And if anywhere is likely to make Metal Gears, it's Alkenstar

[silver geyser]

What's the nation the Kalistocrats are majorly from again? Druma, right?

[turbid dagger]

Yep

[limber comet]

Where's Druma?

[turbid dagger]

In the general Old Cheliax area iirc
Right by Isger and Lake Encarthan

[limber comet]

Ahhh okay

[turbid dagger]

Yeah its between Isger and Kyonin

[limber comet]

Being sandwiched between Geb and Nex probably makes that Worse ngl

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, Impossible Lands goes into this

The ancestors of modern Alkenstar survived the hell that is the mana wastes and made a place that not only functions but prospers, outside the control of Geb and Nex
And people like feeling in control
The idea that they survived those early, harsh years due to luck as much as effort is scary, so they reject it
Instead, Alkenstar survived because it was made by Alkenstarians
And anyone can be Alkenstarian if they're Man Enough

[limber comet]

Yeah

Definitely Armstrong ideology

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/shiny-moana-tamatoa-sparkle-sparkly-gif-16985274

they have a reactionthat makes them shiny to avoid attacks

[limber comet]

Probably more like

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-my-eyes-cant-unsee-burn-gif-7225082

[limber comet]

Tzi Tzi Ya Ku

Especially with those frills on the side of their head? Those things definitely light up like spotlights

[eager mountain]

so omen dragon has an ability can it can make your fortune happen before it happens and gives you the doomed condition

they can see the future.

and must share thier knowledge

no matter who hears it

also thier nose look like a guy's legs.

[frank crystal]

I hope one thing starfinder adds is some martial magazine weapons

I feel like it’s inevitable but i do kinda feel their absence

Also wait I just realized, is there actually no difference between the air repeater and long air repeater besides the long air repeater having more range?

That feels wrong

[barren cipher]

yeah

anyone's guess what it's supposed to be

probably two-handed but it seems a bit weak for that

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s what the description reads

But like, the weapon still only says 1 hand

[solar tendon]

air repeater has agile

[turbid dagger]

Oh, poor Guns & Gears

[frank crystal]

Ohhhh

Yah I forgot about that bit

Also yah with the repeating heavy crossbow just being a d10 repeating weapon with 180 range

A martial repeating firearm seems like an easy fit

[strange nest]

I think I’m just gonna give up on magus

[warped orbit]

repeating heavy crossbow still has reload 1

[warped orbit]

it is supposed to be twohanded, yes
though I think that's silly

[turbid dagger]

If you want something that feels like laughing shadow but with less Mechanics I would advise thaumaturge
You are a stinky magic man with a knife that does too much damage for its size

[strange nest]

There’s just so many tiny little things that make me think I’ll be miserable if I try to play it

[turbid dagger]

I get it
Its one of those classes that is mechanically fine but susceptible to brain goblinization

[silver geyser]

That is perfectly valid for Magus.

Thaum is good for magic-ish man who is sneaky and smart.

[strange nest]

I just don’t want to have to take a setup turn on the the teleports behind you roguish shadow man, I don’t like the severely limited spell choices and slots, and I don’t like how spread thin the stats are

I’ll just do rogue, or kineticist if I want the energy damage stuff

[tough perch]

i lasted until level 4 before getting fed up

for mostly similar reasons

but also because the group of 5 we were 4 high damage martials (swash, rogue, barb and me as shadow magus)

felt like i was going through all that frustration only to contribute the same thing everyone did, except only sometimes

[strange nest]

Luckily, you can use your prowess as a caster for utility!
4 times

the versatility is unmatched!

[tough perch]

you can eke out some more spellslots with a caster dedication

[warped orbit]

I mean you also get Studious Spells later

[tough perch]

but yeah, it was turning out as a sad affair

[warped orbit]

and it's really the only way that isn't making their martial progression slower, which would have been way worse

[tough perch]

If i ever play another magus it's either a cavalier inox iron, or a starlit span, or maybe the new one if i jive with it

or eldritch scion laughing shadow if i ever play with a gm that allows homebrew

[strange nest]

I’ll probably go Kineticist even though it doesn’t fit the original concept I had in mind because they don’t really use weapons

tengu swordmaster with lightning powers

[turbid dagger]

Hm
What are some good non multiclass archetypes that give extra spells?
Odd Q I know but we are doing Season Of Ghosts with free archetype but no multiclass
And I'm doing a twisting tree magus myself
I've decided on familiar master for now just so we have a recon drone but am open to other ideas

Scroll Savant is no good also

Not because the GM banned it but cuz it ain't got a level 4 class feat

[tough perch]

i think only multiclass ones give extra spells

as in, spellslot spells

there's some that give focus spells

talisman dabbler got some magical utility, though

[frank crystal]

That’s so dumb

Why would it have that?

[turbid dagger]

Because the regular one has reload 2

[frank crystal]

WHAT?

[turbid dagger]

Yes crossbows suck (hyperbole)

There are good ones but the ones with 'crossbow' in the name are in the old 1e shadow realm of 'deliberately poor weapons for casters' which don't need to exist now that cantrips do

[silver geyser]

Which is a shame, because you could make awesome crossbows in 1e

[turbid dagger]

Its made up for with the Gakgung basically being a Jezail and THE TAW LAUNCHER

[silver geyser]

God bless THE TAW LAUNCHER

[frank crystal]

What’s THE TAW LAUNCHER?

[silver geyser]

Conrasu advanced weapon.

Probably the best crossbow in the game.

[turbid dagger]

THE TAW LAUNCHER

Arguably the best ranged weapon in the game

If a gunslinger rolls up with it things die

[frank crystal]

Goddamn

I’m making a conrasu gunslinger now

[silver geyser]

It's one of those well-done Advanced weapons that's worth getting.

Like the Fire Poi

[turbid dagger]

I have built out several before!
I did dex vanguard
Which uh
Basically means you don't have a subclass for a while but then SIEGE BREAKER

(And Stab And Blast in the meantime)

Realistically Sniper is probably better but

[silver geyser]

I'd be tempted to go Ranged Inventor on it.

[turbid dagger]

I love Gun Stinger

[turbid dagger]

Unfortunately RAW you can't take advanced weapons as your innovation even if you have prof
But subterfuge suit armor inventor might be nice

[silver geyser]

You still get that good shot.

[turbid dagger]

Mhm, Megaton Strike on it is scary

[silver geyser]

And Overdrive is just a nice boost in general.

[tough perch]

I mean crossbows don't suck as much now that we have the arbalest

[warped orbit]

the arbalest is still kinda mid IMO

backstabber is meh as a positive tag

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, its decent
7/10
The 'bad bad' is typically for the ones that actually have 'crossbow' in the name, as I said

[warped orbit]

the new crossbow crit spec is also mostly worse than bow spec I feel

[frank crystal]

What’s the new one?

[warped orbit]

it's some bleed

[tough perch]

i mean, yeah guns beat them, and bows generally do to

[frank crystal]

Ah

[tough perch]

but if you want to be a crossbow wielder you aren't shit out of luck

[warped orbit]

1d10+potency bleed I think?

[turbid dagger]

I like bleed honestly
And its a decent amount right?
Yeah

[frank crystal]

Honestly that’s quite a bit lol

I expected like a d4

[turbid dagger]

Them shits have got Second Deadly

[warped orbit]

yeah but Bow is just Immobilized until they spend an action on it

[tough perch]

like if you're set on the gunslinger mechanics but GM is no guns you can be an abalétrier without being miserable

[silver geyser]

A d10+Potency bleed is pretty damn good.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah
Like dont get me wrong guns stun and bows pseudo stun are nice
But sometimes you just need to like
Make a corpse

And leave the CC to the wizard

[frank crystal]

Death is still the best form of CC

[warped orbit]

might be slightly less, I don't remember the exact number

[tough perch]

i think guns win out with a good advantage because they generally also have good traits

[warped orbit]

I don't actually think gun crit spec is that good

it's a save, and it also has incap IIRC

though I guess guns already enjoy shooting mooks more, so maybe

[turbid dagger]

Its d8+potency now that I check

So very slightly less

[strange nest]

Real shame cause one of the main reasons I was interested was Draw the Lightning

I could get it from a Jolt Coil, but not until level 12…

[tough perch]

i think concussive by itself carries a lot of weight, since if you're going all in on dex you have few options for bludgeon damage

[strange nest]

The lightning reversal from Sekiro and the lore behind the Tengu and Hei Feng was my main inspiration for going Magus in the first place

[tough perch]

I mean, you can drop laughing shadow, make a inexorable iron

switch feint for athletics

be a swordmaster with a bigger sword

focus on str and int alone

all you're losing is the nothing personel kid

[carmine egret]

...you know, I just realized you could lean into the "lawman" gunslinger archetype

petrified wood arms surrounding an orb of starry black: "There's a new sheriff in town."

[strange nest]

Yeah, though the cascade action economy stuff still irks me, and I will miss the teleport and speed buff.
If my sword isn’t crackling with energy then what’s even the point

[turbid dagger]

The secret is that outside of laughing shadow arcane cascade is a 'if you have a spare action' thing

[tough perch]

i theorize iron's stance is easier to fit in, because it's working when you're getting hit, so you can afford to enter it later, while shadow's incentivize you to use it ASAP

what Namoeleon said

[frank crystal]

I wanna see that orb say “yeehaw”

[strange nest]

Feels like cascade could stand to be a bit more interactive (or free)

[turbid dagger]

I know my twisting tree plans on going into Whirling Stance at level 10 and just never cascading again

[warped orbit]

Valid

[strange nest]

whirling stance?

[turbid dagger]

Staff Acrobat Feat, actual name Whirlwind Stance
Use it on a staff/spear/polearm with parry and you get constant +2 to AC
Think Dueling Dance or Paragon's Guard

[strange nest]

god damn

[strange nest]

Things should be balanced around being fun I think

cause thats what it’s all about baybeee

[barren cipher]

can you get parry on a regular staff?

[strange nest]

Magus moment

[barren cipher]

oh shit you can

[turbid dagger]

Mhm, twisting just transforms their staff into a bo staff (effectively) when two handing it

[eager mountain]

have you checkedthe ones from the soldier preview ?

im not sure if Magazine really would matter in sf2e, becuase all weapons have a certain ammount of charges they use per attack ?

[frank crystal]

I thought the soldier ones just had the heavy weapons with their own mechanics?

Like the 2 action AOE guns

[eager mountain]

uhhhh, nah the weapon section is thier own weapons the soldier can just add to them

[frank crystal]

Oh neat

[eager mountain]

area is a weapon trait

same for automatic fire

[frank crystal]

Ahhh ok

[frank crystal]

Also yah that’s kinda it’s own thing

What I’m referring to is a 0 reload magazine firearm

[eager mountain]

oh ok

idk

[frank crystal]

Not just a martial magazine firearm

Like effectively a martial bow but a firearm

[eager mountain]

idk , possibly

isnt a quiver kind of a bow magazine XD

[frank crystal]

I mean

Kinda

[frank crystal]

Does the soaring armor rune improve the speed of the winged armor rune?

[warped orbit]

I think so, yeah

[frank crystal]

Nice

[light gyro]

yeah. winged gives you a static fly speed, soaring gives you a status bonus to fly speed

[strange nest]

Sorry for repeatedly bemoaning my grievances with Magus yesterday

[frank crystal]

You’re good

[strange nest]

Ultimately, the pieces just don’t really flow together for me the same way they do for other classes, even if the math checks out in a vacuum.

[barren cipher]

yeah magus is a little odd

also i think it’s ok to grouse about things honestly

[strange nest]

Like, laughing shadow really encouraging you to use arcane cascade when the action cost and relatively minor payoff suggest you should only use it sometimes for weaknesses and stuff

[barren cipher]

yeah, arcane cascade is rough around the edges

it’s so expensive

like do you wanna get into arcane cascade or do you want to actually do something with your first turn?

[strange nest]

Also the fact that you can also get basically the same bonuses as Laughing Shadow cascade by just casting 2nd level longstrider and using a two-handed weapon

[barren cipher]

it’s better when you’re quickened i guess but that’s a while

[scenic patio]

Is Wednesday who’s next on the bingo card

[trail nova]

Yeah. In general I find 2e to be just a little too scared of “stuff without action costs”

[strange nest]

It really feels like they focused too much on the numbers and avoiding toe-stepping with Magus and not enough on how they actually feel to play

[warped orbit]

we did have a hint that it's someone with three vowels

Abadar or Rovagug seem likely to me this week

[light gyro]

Rovagug dies and it turns out the starstone trial was actually a total cakewalk - he 's just been camping the rock this whole time

[unborn rain]

Rovagug dies and then people start licking his blood and going buck wild

[warped orbit]

Erastil could also be an interesting one

mainly looking at which of them dying would make an interesting scenario

[scenic patio]

Dying just makes more high lvl monsters out of its corpse

[unborn rain]

The worms that are eating him, suddenly eating you now

[light gyro]

What I'm a FOOL I confused rovagug with acehchahrhk

[unborn rain]

Achaekek will never die because he's simply too small

how are you gonna kill a guy who is so small

[light gyro]

achaekek god of lil birthday boys

[clever cobalt]

My guess is Abadar, Norgrober, Erastil, or Irori this week

[thorny berry]

yeah I'm also not crazy about arcane cascade

like

magus already has a lot of stuff going on, action-wise

[strange nest]

Like, would it be that bad if it was a reaction or triggered free action

[thorny berry]

seriously

[strange nest]

You still need the appropriate spell to cast if you want to take advantage of enemy weaknesses, which you also need to be aware of in the first place

It’s even funnier when you remember Magus has feats dedicated to recall knowledge

which is even more strain on your action econ

[thorny berry]

the magus's analysis enjoyer has logged in

though I assume somebody somewhere has gone in on the RK/raise a tome/sparkling targe build

[strange nest]

I do really enjoy the recall knowledge stuff a lot of the classes get

[rustic cape]

I’m still holding out hope for Rovagug as the winner

[thorny berry]

I did have the thought the other day that it might be a real sleeper strategy on alchemist since they have real flexible damage typing and int primary (and to a lesser extent spellshot gunslinger with, like, alchemical ammo)

[surreal basin]

Honestly my thought on magus is that like

That their action economy is tight but fine, they’re powerful regardless and it’s clearly meant as a class for people who like that kinda tight mechanical stuff

Beyond that they’re a solid class - my only complaint is that without free archetype they kinda

Struggle

[warped orbit]

In what regard?

[surreal basin]

Since they have VERY few spell slots

Long adventuring days are insanely rough on them imo

[warped orbit]

I don't think that's really that much of an issue

Though getting a dedication for some extra True Strike is nice to have yes

But ultimately IMO Magus isn't really meant to actually rely on their slots that much

[surreal basin]

Tbh I think I just don’t really like bounded spellcasting

[rustic cape]

Yeah the trick is that PF2 classes are sometimes built for certain types of player

Which is a choice I approve of

[warped orbit]

Though I would agree that Magus benefits a lot from FA

[thorny berry]

I'm not crazy about it myself, really

[warped orbit]

Something like Psychic does a lot for it

[thorny berry]

I like having lots of tricks in my toolbox vs very 'core loop' focused combat

[rustic cape]

Magus is nice with FA in part because it has so many good choices

[thorny berry]

but I appreciate its usage as a tool to have kinda-casters with very juiced class features

[surreal basin]

Fair

My main struggle is as a GM where I just feel bad putting them through longer days

[thorny berry]

like on the flip side I'm also not usually crazy about four-slot casters cause like

the slots are kinda all you have lol

[light gyro]

they hateus cus the mageus

[surreal basin]

The thing my magus player ended up doing was just using ring of wizardry and endless grimoire to juice the fuck out of their slots

[thorny berry]

sensible

honestly on an at least theoretical level oracle might be my favorite caster class because I like when class features are willing to get weird

pretty hopeful for the remaster version

though if we're drilling down to subclass it might go to wild druid?

[warped orbit]

Oracle is cool, I do think they could use a small bump though

[thorny berry]

oh for sure

[warped orbit]

Mostly better spell selection