Pathfinder

[unborn rain]

All seasons are the horror seasons if you're horrified by seasons

[light gyro]

they cant be worse than golems surely

[unborn rain]

Hmm, Which direction would you probably go with that? Ghost, Infernal or Fey?

[solar tendon]

golems interacted with magic

[silver geyser]

I can assure you that they can easily get worse.

[surreal basin]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1103

thinking this rn

although ill probbaly swap out the gifts

[fierce gulch]

Flying sword enemies

[surreal basin]

one of my players is a necromancer fella who would love a fucked up relic

[surreal basin]

also

for my other campaign

I'm having them fight a adult cloud dragon ravener

and I think it's gonna be a whole dungeon about like

making the boss fight easier

like the whole dungeon is gonna be filled with mist that the dragon can see through

and then there's gonna be stuff they can do to deplete it's soul ward and maybe sicken it? since it's stats are CHUNKY

theyre going to it's lair to steal an ancient tome that they're trading for access to a library of forbidden knowledge

[echo briar]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siik?The-Godsrain-Prophecies-Part-Four#discuss

[sinful gyro]

Urgathoa Safe

[echo briar]

Hmm, I feel like I know how Arazni becomes part of the core 20

[limber comet]

Urgathoa is safe, hooray

(Nobody is surprised)

[echo briar]

It could have been her purely because we know Arazni is replacing the new god

[frozen hatch]

What's the current reigning theory on who's dying?

[turbid dagger]

She's not replacing them
Like, she's becoming a core god but there's no causation
She isn't taking their domain or anything

[rustic cape]

A lot of folks think Saerenrae

[warped orbit]

there's a few likely candidates

[echo briar]

this post clearly implies there is absolutely causation.

[rustic cape]

Personally I’m hoping for Nethys or Rovagug

[frozen hatch]

Why is a god dying?

[barren cipher]

everyone should cultivate their own pet theory

[rustic cape]

We don’t know

[light gyro]

had it coming

[sinful gyro]

Big god war

[echo briar]

Killing a member of the core 20 is a great way to get into the core 20

[light gyro]

guthix dies again

[warped orbit]

Arazni is already a god though

[sinful gyro]

But it's basically Paizos big event of the year

A core 20 god will die, as will some non-core gods

And we get some new classes

Arazni is joining the rainbow group I bet

[rustic cape]

If they kill Nocticula I will raze Paizo to the ground

[echo briar]

yea, but not in the core 20.

[solar tendon]

idk if the core 20 even exist in universe tbh

there's not really anything binding them all together

[surreal basin]

I doubt Nocticula will die

Also

[sinful gyro]

They probably don't but the core 20 is language paizo uses

[surreal basin]

The core 20 are just gods worshipped across the world

[rustic cape]

Oh yeah there’s no way they’ll do it

[solar tendon]

other than vaguely being widespread in the inner sea region

[warped orbit]

we do know that the Prismatic Ray is "changing" somehow
but that could mean anything

[sinful gyro]

Ye

[turbid dagger]

This prophecy is one of the fake ones

[sinful gyro]

That's my prediction for it

[surreal basin]

Like, the only commonality is that you can find them being worshipped p much anywhere

Yeah that would fuck

[limber comet]

They're just the most prevalent gods in the inner sea region

[surreal basin]

I would love Arazni joining the Ray

[solar tendon]

Core is absolutely a real meta status but I don't think arazni becoming a Core god really has any lore implications inherently

[echo briar]

and Yivali thinks that part in particular is true

[solar tendon]

it's not like a pantheon

[warped orbit]

I'm personally still in favor of the theory Zon Kuthon bites it, and Shelyn changing herself out of grief

[solar tendon]

is all my point is

[surreal basin]

Other than becoming a major god

The core dieties are all major and that’s like

It

[echo briar]

Its not definitive, but its implied

[limber comet]

I guess we'll find out when shit hits the fan in April

[surreal basin]

Arazni killing iomadae for leaving her as the Lich queen would be my ideal outcome even if it’s unlikely

[solar tendon]

I think it's arguable Arazni is potentially already at least as major as Iomedae tbh

[surreal basin]

Again, famed iomadae hater for that literal reason

[warped orbit]

it's possible I think

[surreal basin]

Referring to myself

[rustic cape]

I think Iomedae death is unlikely

[surreal basin]

Porque

[solar tendon]

iomedae dying so there's only one crusade patron god

[rustic cape]

And also not super compelling

[surreal basin]

Really? I think the death of the general Paladin god is like

Really compelling stuff

Especially in the face of Tar Baphon being still around

[unborn rain]

Urgathoa apocalypse is interesting, the idea that she's actually the only thing keeping undead in balance

[surreal basin]

Also is great shit to spark a war

Since she’s one of the main gods that actually fights

Could see that easily breaking the Cold War

[solar tendon]

sad my "pharasma goes apeshit and rips urgathoa in half with her teeth" theory is not the prophecy xP

[echo briar]

Compared to everyone else, not really

[solar tendon]

you think Irori would be more impactful?

[rustic cape]

https://tenor.com/view/primal-ahh-me-angry-mad-shout-gif-17346691

[surreal basin]

I mean, I feel like people have said “not impactful” about every god that’s not a member of the prismatic ray lol

Or Pharasma

[echo briar]

Irori would be one of the least impactful.

[rustic cape]

My hopes remain pinned on Nethys and Rovagug

[unborn rain]

I don't think Irori will die but his death prophecy's probably going to be like "All ambition dies, everyone stops doing stuff forever in a nihilist death spiral"

[surreal basin]

I think Rovagug seems likely if the core gods death is what sparks the war

[barren cipher]

irori worshippers: oh no, we lost all of our divine powers, but we can still cast 7th level fist

[surreal basin]

If the gods death is a RESULT of the war

[solar tendon]

I feel like

[surreal basin]

Then iomadae

[echo briar]

I'm hoping for abadar. I want a great depression AP

[solar tendon]

Rovagug cult is less of a plotline nowadays

so he's not really doing a lot

[surreal basin]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Is just a setting element

[solar tendon]

but that's very subjective haha

[surreal basin]

There haven’t really been ANY really cult APs in 2es lifespan save for Age of Ashes

[unborn rain]

Although 3 eye Jackal (I forgor her name) gets most of the flak for shitty edgy 1e stuff, I do think it was pretty common in Rovagug stuff too.

And I think there's less interesting stuff you can do with Rovagug compared to the Jackal, when it coems to re-doing them interesting

[surreal basin]

Lamashtu

And eh

[rustic cape]

I think they could do a lot after the AP with Nethys

[surreal basin]

His shit is just destroy the world

Which you could maybe call edgy but like

It’s classic fantasy fodder

[turbid dagger]

Does AbomVaults count 🤔

[echo briar]

The problem is he has a very useful archive

[surreal basin]

Not sure actually

[rustic cape]

The archive can stay

[surreal basin]

Haven’t really looked into av

Anyway here’s my pitch on why it won’t be nethys

[rustic cape]

I mean like you know Dunkelzahn’s will in Shadowrun?

[surreal basin]

There still kinda needs to be a core god of magic from a meta perspective

[unborn rain]

nethys dies and Paizo puts a cease and desist on AoN

[surreal basin]

I think it’s likely to be a god that does have such a unique and ubiquitous domain

[rustic cape]

Nethys’s death could absolutely be used for that sort of situation

[turbid dagger]

Oh whoops
I kind of assumed you would know about it
But to explain my reasoning under a cut ||The big bad is all into Elder God Worship, though her actual CULT cult is a little defunct now, she mostly just bullies monsters||

[surreal basin]

See like, Zon Kuthon

Where there doesn’t really need to be a core god of torture

I don’t think they’re gonna leave a big gaping hole in the core domains

[rustic cape]

My counter proposal is that magic not having a ruling god opens up so much potential for wacky shit to happen

Anyway I don’t know that Nethys is likely

Just something I’d like to see

[surreal basin]

Iomadae is kinda just one of many generic good gods in terms of like

Domain stuff

Is part of why she’s on my short list

Prismatic Ray is part wishful thinking and part

[barren cipher]

nethys going 'i have decided to die for research purposes, figure out who gets to inherit my stuff on your own' seems plausible

[surreal basin]

I just don’t think Paizo would pull something that wildly depressing

Cause any of the Ray dying is more just a bummer than it is interesting

[turbid dagger]

Nethys' backstory being what it is it seems like he is not actually at all needed for magic to continue functioning
And he's probably not really coherent enough to 'regulate' magic anyway

[solar tendon]

I feel like sarenrae and prismatic ray by extension is the big red herring play

messing with the fandom stuff

[surreal basin]

Yeah I also think she’s kinda being set up as a red herring

[turbid dagger]

Like, isn't his deal 'he was a wizard who finally Understood All Magic and it broke him'

[rustic cape]

Yeah!

[surreal basin]

I’m pretty sure the prophecy is referring to walkena and the prismatic ray changing refers to like

Some other shake up in it

Rather than a death

[solar tendon]

as I like to point out; prismatic spray was not remastered

[rustic cape]

Literally persuade Nethys to die for the novelty

It could work

[echo briar]

My though prosses based on this post is who other than Iomedae and Urgathoa would Arazni want to kill?

Unless that part is also a huge red herring

[turbid dagger]

Yeah its distinctly possible the change to the prismatic ray is just a rename for OGL reasons

[turbid dagger]

All of these prophecies have involved some very large departures from actual reality
Its not likely Arazni is actually involved in the death of the god whose dying

[unborn rain]

Prismatic Ray changes by becoming a Quadruple, following another 20 core deities bingo card with a prophecy of each god joining the polycule

[solar tendon]

genius

[echo briar]

But why call attention to how that might actually be possible at the end?

I would ignore it if not for the end bit

[surreal basin]

I mean

Just cause it is

Like

Not everything means something is gonna happen is all

[sinful gyro]

I think it's just a fun chance to write some what ifs

[echo briar]

I mean, it's either a hint or a red herring

Yivali seems like a mostly reliable narrator

[surreal basin]

I mean you’re free to take it that way but I think it’s only in the same vein as like

When they said it was certainly possible that Cayden’s source of power is legitimately just divine alcohol

[unborn rain]

I think the what ifs so far have been pretty interesting ideas for like home campaigns

Urgotha is dead so there's a zombie apocalypse without rhyme or reason sounds like it could be interesting

[turbid dagger]

The scribe has done a little after action for all the prophecies like that, going 'hm whats the probability of this actually happening'

[echo briar]

Yea, but divine alcohol is not entering the core 20 despite canonically not having a ton of followers. Arazni does something to get a bunch of followers

Killing a god is certainly something

[unborn rain]

I think Arazni doing a murder isnt unlikely

[echo briar]

Other than this, we have no clue what that something is

[solar tendon]

I think arazni killing iomedae would kinda suck

[unborn rain]

Like after seeing it in this prophecy it feels like something that might come through to the final one

[solar tendon]

cause I think they have more interesting potential in just having a tense relationship over time

[turbid dagger]

Arazni is probably entering the core 20 because of Lastwall and Tar Baphon

[surreal basin]

Regardless I think it’s possible it’s a clue

[solar tendon]

it's definitely possible

[surreal basin]

But until we have more info I wouldn’t go crazy about it

It’s also possible that it’s nothing

They also don’t definitely say Arazni could kill a god

They just muse on if it’s possible

[unborn rain]

Maybe Arazni tries to kill a god but doesnt succeed

[echo briar]

Well, something has to, and so far other than Phrasma just dropping dead for no real reason, Arazni killing them is the only maybe reproducible one

[trail nova]

Arazni is pretty high on my list of deities that would fit with the Prismatic Ray. Both domain wise, and as an individual.

[echo briar]

Heres an idea, (god) goes on a rampage, everyone else tries to kill them but they can't, but due to this prophecy, Pharasma knows that Arazni might be able to do it, and the war becomes each side convincing Arazni to join their side

Even if she can't succeed, as long as she does something relevant it would likely boost her followers up a ton

What if every prophecy has a nugget of truth that will be relevant in the book?

[barren cipher]

given that lost omens-era prophecy has approximately the same weight as the opinion of a level 2 horse merchant down the local tavern, i'm not sure they would lean into that too much

[unborn rain]

Prophecy is like the stock market

I thought of this sentence but my brain didn't justify it at all

[solar tendon]

market speculation is a blight on society

[clever cobalt]

Is that one Lastwall knight gonna become the Herald of Arazni

The leader of the Crimson Reclaimers

[solar tendon]

Clarethe

that would be really cool

[surreal basin]

I also wonder if uhhhh

Seldig is gonna come up again

[solar tendon]

and something happening to show what Arazni would have done in Aroden's place prolly

[surreal basin]

She spared him when she ascended for some reason, the only of her gebbite honor guard

[clever cobalt]

Seldig?

[surreal basin]

Bloodlords spoilers: ||He can die over the course of bloodlords though so his fate is currently unclear||

[clever cobalt]

Also it seems.like an open secret the Crimson Reclaimers are empowered by Arazni

[surreal basin]

One of the Ozem guys who got turned into her grave knight guards

[clever cobalt]

That's the source of the Crimson Oath

And got it

[surreal basin]

And the only one she didn’t kill when she became a god

For reasons that are not elaborated on

[clever cobalt]

How did she become a god anyways?

[surreal basin]

Unclear!

[clever cobalt]

She got "killed" by the Whispering Tyrant but that's all I know

Somehow Ascending to godhood afterwards

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah so after she died the knights of Ozem put her body in a tomb

Then they got all uppity and a set of them tried to kill Geb, got killed, and got turned into grave knights, who then went back and stole her body

[clever cobalt]

No I mean

She escaped Geb and fought Tar Baphon again

[surreal basin]

Geb turned her into a Lich, and this transformation combined with the worship of the gebbite and her previous status as a herald seems to have like

OH RIGHT

yeah so she got killed by the Radiant Fire

And something about that process, probably cause the Radiant Fire was weird, released her soul from Geb’s power

She was probably already a god at that point

Just a chained one unable to enter her full power

[clever cobalt]

The Radiant Fire was the Magical Superweapon of both Positive and Negative energy right

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[sinful gyro]

Arazni wanted to help the Crusade, but they basically forced her into an unwinnable battle and she died. She then got liched by Geb. Eventually (in pf1e lore) she broke free of lichdom control from Geb and in doing so ascended to godhood

The Radient Fire is basically a magic nuke yeah

[surreal basin]

Yeah it’s a piece of Aroden’s shield

And Tar Baphon had it lodged in his chest

[sinful gyro]

And she totally isn't aiding the Crimson Reclaimers, totally not /s

[surreal basin]

And he could like

Focus negative energy on it so that it produced positive energy

[sinful gyro]

He had a shard lodged in his hand, which he could use to manipulate the other pieces

[surreal basin]

And make it into a big nuke

He doesn’t have it anymore cause he got blowed up by it and Arazni

[sinful gyro]

And now there's a crater outside Absaolom

Also some in the gravelands but no one talks about it

[clever cobalt]

Is the hand in the crater outside Absalom the same hand with the fragment?

[sinful gyro]

Probably?

Up to future writers

[clever cobalt]

Also, how powerful is Tar Baphoj?

I know he's one of the strongest casters on Golarion

But that list isn't short either

[surreal basin]

Uhhh

[sinful gyro]

More than level 25

[surreal basin]

Yeah he’s level 20 with mythic levels

[sinful gyro]

He's sorta on the border between top end stat block / too strong to have a stat block

[clever cobalt]

I wanna see Geb beat him up

I wonder how they'd get along

[surreal basin]

Oh, uh

https://www.aonprd.com/MythicMonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=The Whispering Tyrant

This strong

CR 26 Mythic Rank 10

[clever cobalt]

So is that 36 or

[surreal basin]

Not really

[barren cipher]

Melee +2 keen wounding dagger

[surreal basin]

Mythic rank is a seperate thing in 1e

[barren cipher]

yeah i think i can take him

[sinful gyro]

I think monsters inpf2e cap at level 25 atm

[clever cobalt]

They do

I do wonder if WoI will change that

[surreal basin]

He has 7 9th level spell slots

[sinful gyro]

So I'd put him at there

[clever cobalt]

Cause Mythic stuff

[barren cipher]

he's the same CR as pre-ascension arazni

[surreal basin]

Also if you aren’t mythic he paralyzes you for 1d4 rounds no save

Just upon getting within 60 feet of him

Being mythic only lets you save against it

[clever cobalt]

I hope we get some cool Mythic stuff in PF2e

And not "you do the same but better"

(Or at least, more than just that)

[surreal basin]

Also he has 36 Int

[clever cobalt]

He's a nerd

[surreal basin]

Which is still 10 lower than Baba Yaga

Incredibly only 14 wisdom

Which is extremely funny

[sinful gyro]

unfettered shirt Baphon drip

[surreal basin]

Also he can channel negative energy fucking 16 times a day

He also takes half damage from positive effects

Definitely not the hardest to kill creature in pf1e in like

Single combat

He’d be pretty weak to a gunslinger with a touch ac of only 19

[rustic cape]

But still a 20th level mythic caster

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah

Also able to create and control a genuinely unlimited number of undead

[clever cobalt]

I cast gun

[surreal basin]

So you won’t be fighting him alone

And his spell list is nasty as hell

[rustic cape]

https://tenor.com/view/bruce-wizard-delete-this-gun-gif-14009553

[surreal basin]

Wail of the Banshee with a guy who has infinite undead allies is

Rough

[clever cobalt]

Oh hey Battlezoo Eldamon came out

[surreal basin]

Also empowered disintigrate for when he has you paralyzed

Also has 13 high level scrolls on his person

Which is mostly just funny

[rustic cape]

Loot

[surreal basin]

He is more powerful than old man jatambe which is

Kinda horrific actually

[clever cobalt]

Really?

Huh

Nex is unstated though right

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[clever cobalt]

Iirc he's just "level 20+ Wizard"

[surreal basin]

Neither nex nor Geb ever got stats I believe

Yeah no Geb is unstatted

But a basic bloodlord is level 18

So like

Homie is beyond the scope of this campaign

[clever cobalt]

Nex is pretty scary in terms of "lore" power yeah

And Geb directly competed with him so

[surreal basin]

Yeah although

We don’t know a ton of what Nex is capable of tbh

Other than infinite magical horseshit

Probably on par with baba Yaga, bare minimum the whispering tyrant

[clever cobalt]

IIRC Nex "disappeared" an Eldest

And also is currently siphoning power off gods to become one himself or something

[surreal basin]

Bare minimum they’re both mythic rank 10

[rustic cape]

Baba Yaga, the witch so witchy other witches have her as a patron

[surreal basin]

And it’s never stated what Nex is currently doing iirc

He might just be dead

[clever cobalt]

True, though it would be quite anticlimactic if he was

Actually

Isn't her sending messengers from his demiplane to the leaders of Nex (the nation)

Which is kinda hard to do if he's dead

[silver geyser]

Death stops very little

[limber comet]

It's like the cat in the box

Schroedinger's Archmage

"We won't know if the wizard is alive or dead until we look in the box"
I wanna kiss Geb
"Shut up"

[light gyro]

strength of thousands book 4 spoiler ||"we cant mount a war against the evil god-king but we can become landlords" - my players, recieving a house they can rent||

[light gyro]

i hope one of the godsrain prophecies involves the subject god getting punched so hard they explode. it's all been too poetic and subdued so far

[barren cipher]

gorum hits someone so hard he dies as well

a level 3 adventurer says 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough' and he takes that personally

[light gyro]

Nethys seeing the words "PERFECT KILL - TOTAL LIFE OBLITERATION" appear out of nowhere

https://tenor.com/view/cat-surprise-surprised-uni-cat-jumpscare-gif-10000932543291362843

[rustic cape]

I really think it’d be funniest and most in character for Nethys to just allow it to happen

For science

[clever cobalt]

Irori decking Nethys

[limber comet]

Irori is totally Solomon David core

[surreal basin]

Man is that the unedited panel

I forgot how fucking funny it was

[limber comet]

Changing my setting's god of self perfection to be Solomon David

[frank crystal]

Chat we will be implementing this as a level 20 homebrew monk feat (gore)

[limber comet]

Like, Solomon David is so peak

[strange nest]

[Flourish] [Open]
Make a melee Strike against all enemies.```
Please file any complaints with the emperor.

[frank crystal]

That would honestly be sick as hell

Also what is the new rules for refocusing?

[strange nest]

iirc you don’t need to spend a focus point before you refocus again

[solar tendon]

mhm

[strange nest]

aka you can spend 30 minutes to restore all 3

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

[solar tendon]

and there's a new feat that's a full restore somewhere in the early teens

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

[solar tendon]

replacing all previous refocus feats

[strange nest]

Nice improvement to focus centric builds

[limber comet]

Buildcrafting? Nah, I just pick what looks fun

As long as you're having fun, that's what matters

[strange nest]

For me, I pick things that look fun then try to optimize those things the best I can

[limber comet]

I respect it

[rustic cape]

Optimization isn’t about building the strongest thing possible, it’s about using the tools the game provides you to make the concepts you have work, imo

[strange nest]

can your build beat Goku

[rustic cape]

With friendship

[frank crystal]

No but I can give him another heart disease

[turbid dagger]

My kineticist can give him unlimited food so he would not want to fight

[strange nest]

since mythic level stuff is getting added, I wonder if there’s gonna be something that lets monk achieve ultra instinct

[turbid dagger]

Thats just Crane Flutter

[strange nest]

oh damn, somehow forgot about flutter

love me some counterattacks

we still don’t really know anything about the mythic rules, right?

[turbid dagger]

There was slight implications of them being archetypes at one point

[thorny berry]

iirc it was some designer or other going 'yeah if I were to implement mythic I'd do them kinda like archetypes I think'

I'm of two minds just because honestly my fear is that they come out like relics and I mostly find relics kinda underwhelming

if there was ever a place for pf2 to be permitted to let its hair down a bit it'd be mythic rules but also they don't design like that any more for very good reasons

[turbid dagger]

I know of that, but I also believe a war of the immortals hype post somewhere explicitly mentions 'archetypes letting you wield mythic power'
I'll try and find it

[thorny berry]

could also be war of the immortals-themed archetypes and an actual mythic system as separate things

[echo briar]

This is last wall right?

[turbid dagger]

Its lastwall and geb yes

[echo briar]

If so, maybe this prophecy is more true than we thought

Or their just purposefully misleading us. Who knows

[turbid dagger]

Michael Sayre is just saying that Urgathoa is already trying to spread undead around as much as she can

[echo briar]

I don't think thats true. Why would she want to kill an undead god if she doesn't know or at least believe that would cause more undead.

Like she might not know of the prophecy, but this is implying she knows of the effect

[frank crystal]

So one of my players is playing an psychics investigator

And besides the skills you can get from it, are there any good investigator stuff for casters?

[warped orbit]

uhh
well DaS won't really help any

a few of their supporting feats might be useful

[echo briar]

Is this PF1 with the psychic investigator architype, or PF2 with a psychic dedication?

[frank crystal]

Pathfinder 2e, Psychic with Investigator dedication

[thorny berry]

skill stuff certainly seems like the bulk of it, plus similar utility-oriented class feats

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

I’m not sure how deep they’re planning to go into investigator

But we will see

[thorny berry]

like you can just straight up poach a bunch of skill increases

which honestly if you're playing a caster whose action economy is largely kinda spoken for not the worst thing

[frank crystal]

Yah honestly

[strange nest]

also just conceptually cool

Psychic Investigator

You investigate

and are psychic

[frank crystal]

Admittedly their backstory is more like

Forcibly experimented on

And is trying to figure out by who

They are not a Columbo figure with psychic powers

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

TIL Druids can choose whatever spells they want each day

They don’t have any kind of repertoire

[solar tendon]

yeah

It's a historically prepared Divine thing

Druids are primal now but kept the deal

[turbid dagger]

They prep like wizards yeah
~~much to my chagrin ~~

[solar tendon]

difference is wizards (and witches and magi) have a spellbook (or familiar)

Cleric and Druid just get their whole list

[echo briar]

I think the GM should prepare for the druid, to represent nature choosing what they need

[limber comet]

That could go poorly

I know that's the joke but

[silver geyser]

Spite GM enabled

[limber comet]

Jeez

Yikes

[light gyro]

wall of flesh. wall of flesh. wall of flesh. wall of fl

[echo briar]

I mean really, what could be more useful then every slot being instant pottery

[limber comet]

Average druid in Strange Aeons

[turbid dagger]

I just have trouble with prep because I feel like I'd always take like
Heal X2
Lightning Bolt X18

[surreal basin]

That’s why you gotta have a character theme

[solar tendon]

it's why bonded items are cool for wizards

you're encouraged to diversify cause you have a wildcard slot that can be any of them

[limber comet]

Witches and Wizards rock so hard I'm ngl

[surreal basin]

Unless you’re a Lich :3

[turbid dagger]

Whereas with Spont I can take Heal, Lightning, then the weird stuff like Talk To Stone Doors and Spider Buddy

[surreal basin]

Unless unless you’re a universalist Lich

And honestly I feel way more pressure to take more useful stuff as a spont

[solar tendon]

yeah

when you get like 2/3 spells per level it's like

not a lot of room for stuff you're not gonna use necessarily

but I think it definitely just depends on how your brain works

it's not so bad in 2e with signature spells being a thing

[turbid dagger]

Yeah
It's a shame flex caster hurts your slots the way it does or id do flex druid
For that sweet sweet Clumsy 2 focus spell

[strange nest]

You could try coming up with a basic “spell loadout” out of session with some more variance. Then when preparing spells in session you can just use the list, replacing spells to better fit the situation as needed.

You’ll have more time to get creative since you don’t have to worry about time constraints out of session

Also, am I looking at things wrong or is precious material ammunition like, bonkers expensive

[warped orbit]

you make it in batches of 10 IIRC, at the price of a light weapon

but yes, precious metal anything is really expensive

[surreal basin]

yeah cold iron or silver blanch is your best best

if you need adamantine uhhhhhhhh

hope you don't need much!

[warped orbit]

silversheen and cold iron blanch are so much cheaper than actually getting a proper precious metal weapon

and most of the other materials are too expensive to really consider

[surreal basin]

adamantine is only considerable if you find some

beyond that

grab some metal for needle darts maybe

[warped orbit]

an extremely funny one to me is Orichalcum

clockwork enemies have a weakness to it, a lot of which are low to mid level enemies

so what level do you think an Orichalcum weapon is?

[clever cobalt]

high

[warped orbit]

18

[strange nest]

I mainly brought up ammo price since assuming you need higher grade to benefit from runes, why would ever make high-grade silver bullets instead of silversheen

[warped orbit]

22500gp+2250 per bulk

meanwhile this is the spread of clockwork enemies

[warped orbit]

I mean you don't

silversheen is just always cheaper

[echo briar]

Remember, historically cold iron was just iron that was not hot, so you can save on sold iron blanches if you play with a 13th century GM

[solar tendon]

if you for some reason need the ammo to stay silvered for longer than an hour

[echo briar]

Also, our GM is realizing that good locks are so expensive, they tend to be worth more than what their protecting

[solar tendon]

I don't think you need high grade ammo unless you're mega enchanting the ammo itself though?

[echo briar]

A superior lock is 4500gp.

[warped orbit]

ammo is kinda weird that way yes

[solar tendon]

honestly the majority of locks should be the worst kind

[warped orbit]

a superior lock is also one of the best locks possible

almost no one will have one of those

except maybe nobility and particularly paranoid rich people

[solar tendon]

rarely are locks actually made to stand up to attack

[echo briar]

yea, but were high level. We are going to those places

[silver geyser]

You find superior locks on vaults or in major prisons

[solar tendon]

but ye if a lock is worth more than the treasure, it needs to be better treasure or a worse lock

[silver geyser]

And while valuable, they're not going to compare to what they're protecting

[solar tendon]

like even an 'average' lock should be pretty damn rare realistically

it's weird cause they basically changed lockpicking to be kinda realistic and only really *be hard if you have limited tools or time

[silver geyser]

Which I will stand with for sure

[strange nest]

Also, if your lock is worth more than heavy armor, it should probably be built into the thing it’s locking

[silver geyser]

Mind you, dedicated adventurers will steal a sufficiently valuable door

[solar tendon]

it's like how in skyrim you can make a lot more money from looting silverware than bodies

[echo briar]

We also did that

[solar tendon]

good o7

[strange nest]

I can imagine most people with the money to spend on good locks are probably aware it takes a lot more to stop a dedicated adventurer

[echo briar]

It was, we just took the door too

[solar tendon]

it's actually kinda weird you can even get a level 17 lock without magic getting involved

especially since like the assumption is by the time you're like, a master in thievery you will be disarming magical traps

[turbid dagger]

I assume a level 17 lock is basically some insane clockwork puzzle tile with like 49000000 moving parts

[surreal basin]

it is really funny that like

disintigrate solves most trap and lock based problems

[solar tendon]

like this is what Legendary Thieves are doin

[surreal basin]

since raw it just

destroys non-artifact objects

like

full stop

[strange nest]

level 17 lock and it’s just straight up a digital keypad

[silver geyser]

"Stop Existing" solves many problems

[turbid dagger]

Like that thing in the goblin bank in Harry Potter

[solar tendon]

high level chests are probably using extradimensional spaces tbh

eberron

[surreal basin]

like

An object you hit is destroyed (no save), regardless of Hardness, unless it's an artifact or similarly hard to destroy. A single casting can destroy no more than a 10-foot cube of matter. This automatically destroys any force construct, such as a wall of force.

this implies you don't even roll damage

if you hit a non-artifact object

including like

traps and stuff

you just fucking annhilate it

[clever cobalt]

Are Awakened Animals bipedal or quadrapedal?

[solar tendon]

preference I think

so both?

but not if it's like a horse...

the 'iconic' awakened animal from howl is bipedal I think

[clever cobalt]

Ye

A badger

[warped orbit]

choice of either is gonna be my assumption

might be their heritage

similar to Hunter Automaton and quadruped Poppet

[echo briar]

I mean, some are going to be apedal, or hexapedal

or like slugs monopedal

[turbid dagger]

I would not be surprised if it had a hunter automaton esque heritage

[solar tendon]

or desert ratfolk

[limber comet]

Slug awakened animal goes hard ngl

What class

[warped orbit]

Monk

[limber comet]

Monk?

[warped orbit]

this slug is zooming and throwing hands

[echo briar]

But slugs lack hands. however, when half of your body is a foot, the kicks get insane

[turbid dagger]

Ohhhh my god
I did not know ratfolk get this
Intense urge to make a ratfolk monk now

[solar tendon]

it's good

if I ever had a oneshot or something that suited it I'd play a desert rat stumbling stance monk

[turbid dagger]

Oh yeah Desert Rat is Fucked Up
You get Sandstrider Lizardfolk's Liquid Nitrogen Cooling and also get to be fast

[rapid wagon]

with a monk, is there benefit to weaving between stances

[warped orbit]

occasionally for specific things, but generally I would say not really

[silver geyser]

Different punches sometimes.

[turbid dagger]

It gets spicier at later levels I'd say
Once you get Stance Savant and Prevailing Position

[fossil temple]

show plz

[heavy fulcrum]

Dr. Pom! https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/awakened-badger.png

[fossil temple]

Love it

Finally
Beastkin will catch a break

[frank crystal]

Did they ever add wood and metal for elemental sorcerers?

[unborn rain]

it doesnt look like it from AoN

[frank crystal]

[echo briar]

I mean, the remastered sorcerer isn't out yet

They are probably waiting for that

[fierce gulch]

Is witch basically a warlock except a support character instead of someone who throws eldritch blasts

Like thematically

In being a faster who borrows power from other sources

[echo briar]

Its not really a support character, just a general caster

[frank crystal]

Thematically they are basically the same as warlocks yah

You made a pact with a cosmic being of some sort and now you get magic from that pact

Mechanically they’re the familiar caster

They have a stronger familiar then anyone else with some extra effects

[rustic cape]

The only big fluff difference is that Witches are big on familiars, yeah

[fierce gulch]

How do witches play

[rustic cape]

Like casters

[fierce gulch]

Like do they use their familiars directly to do damage or cast spells through their familiars

[frank crystal]

Like a normal caster+your familiar being used as the epicenter of abilities

[warped orbit]

they are a prepared caster like Wizard, with their tradition depending on their Patron

[fierce gulch]

Ah so kinda like 1.4 icon stormbender?

[rustic cape]

Plus they get some neat focus spells with low action costs

[rustic cape]

Nowhere near so specific

Witch is a super versatile class since they can have any of the four spell lists

[fierce gulch]

What are patrons like

[frank crystal]

Not as specific as 5e

They’re more there for general concepts then specific entities

Like you won’t find a fiend patron

But you do find the shadow patron for patrons that are entities which make deals with the desperate at the fringes of society

[rustic cape]

Patron choice determines your familiar’s special abilities and your spell list

[surreal basin]

There’s a cool ice themed witch line

That I really really wanna play with Gellid Shard archetype

[turbid dagger]

Familiars have a fairly small role in combat but a very big one in narrative
In combat, they get a little bonus thingy that happens when you cast a hex, the specifics of which depend on your Patron
So the snow themed one has an area of difficult terrain around your familiar for a round when you hex as a snow drift appears around them
Other than that, they don't really fight, and you should probably keep them out of the line of fire because they're essentially your spellbook
Narratively/in Exploration, its a bird that can speak english you can have do stuff for you, which is huge

You have a little rat that can tell you all your enemies secrets and navigate the hallway full of pressure plates

[surreal basin]

My players are gonna find a corrupted relic in a crypt and I gotta figure out what gifts I want it to have

I think it’s probably kept there as a Catholic relic kinda thing, probably a body part of a saint

I’m thinking maybe earth and plant from a farmers bone? Or maybe it could be something darker, sealed there, as a protective measure
Could also see like, celestial and fortune as measured against undead

[frank crystal]

Honestly I feel like a part of a corpse would be the best thing to do

It’s a crypt, it’s very catholic, it’s classically a ward against evil spirits if the person is significant enough

Going darker then that kinda risks it turning schlocky

[surreal basin]

Oh for sure yeah

[frank crystal]

Ngl I never understood the difference between stances that force you to use their strikes and the ones where you can use their strikes

Like none of these stances feel particularly weaker or more powerful

[warped orbit]

generally the ones that force you to use the Strikes also give some kind of passive benefit

like Crane's AC bonus

[frank crystal]

I mean dragon doesn’t force you to do and it has a passive benefit

[warped orbit]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

the most likely explanation is just inconsistent templating

[frank crystal]

Probably

It’s not like this game is flawless

Also ngl looking at the stances again

I definitely wanna play either a tiger or wolf monk

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, it very likely just editing mistakes
Like how stumbling stance let's you wear armor RAW

Which whips for like thaum but also why can drunken boxers wear platemail but nobody else

[warped orbit]

Stumbling and Gorilla both don't have the unarmored requirement IIRC

though why just those two specifically I have no idea

[frank crystal]

Gorilla I can kinda see because it’s a str based one that doesn’t give an AC boost like mountain

But stumbling I’ve got no idea

Also man I wish Ki strike wasn’t level 1 so bad

I wanna get it because it’s very solid but it’s competing with so much

And idk what levels are free enough to go back to get it

[turbid dagger]

They just had Dave write those instead of Tony
And he put it to paper differently
For ki strike id say 2 is fine

[warped orbit]

2 or 4 IMO

depending on what else you'd want those levels

if you are FA, you can also go into Student of Perfection

[frank crystal]

Is that just the ki spells archetype?

[warped orbit]

kind of

[frank crystal]

Hmm alright

[warped orbit]

but also yeah just grab it at 2

or be Human

[frank crystal]

Yah looking at 2, the only thing I particularly care about there is stunning strike

But like

[warped orbit]

Natural Ambition ho

[frank crystal]

Stunning strike has incapacitation

So like, not nearly as good as it reads

Oh wait it’s even worse

[turbid dagger]

To be fair
You will be flurrying literally all the time
So

[frank crystal]

It has incapacitation and no effect on a success

So unless they crit fail nothing happens

[warped orbit]

Stunning Strike is nice as a little bonus when you fight Pl+0 monsters, but yeah not critical

[frank crystal]

I mean yah but like, Ki strike good

+1 status bonus and extra damage for basically no cost

[warped orbit]

I wanted to plan out a Heavenbreaker Monk some time

[frank crystal]

What’s that?

[warped orbit]

with FA you go Student of Perfection for 2 and 4, then Heavenbreaker at 6

[warped orbit]

it's an archetype

Heavenseeker, sorry

https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=198

[frank crystal]

Ahh ok

[surreal basin]

Just looked at Student of Perfection

Holy SHIT

Untwisting Iron Pillar is uh

Something

“Ah yes I would like 50 temp hp and resistance 5 thank you”

[warped orbit]

yep

the other elements also have some good focus spells, but Iron definitely has some standouts

[turbid dagger]

Skyward slash is cool as a stance, wish it was easier to access tho

...... Cross the Final Horizon does not total damage for weakness like flurry
Heavenseeker Thaum,

[surreal basin]

I REMEMBER THE DAYS WHEN SKY AND HEAVEN STANCE GAVE YOU YOUR LEVEL IN TWO DAMAGE TYPES

[warped orbit]

yeah lmao

tbf, it was half level each for two damage types

still busted af though

it's still a pretty good feat nerfed to regular damage boost levels

[turbid dagger]

Wait a minute
Sky And Heaven has no finesse and versatile p 😨

[surreal basin]

Tbh I think it’s kinda bad for basically being sustained lol

[warped orbit]

it's a Str stance

[warped orbit]

eh, if anyone can spare an action for it it's Monks tbh

use your third action for +2-8 damage on your Strikes for one round is worth IMO

[surreal basin]

Fair enough

[turbid dagger]

Oh yes
That just makes building it far more complex is my point
Especially with my idea of thaum taking it

[thorny berry]

wonder if that particular bit might receive a remaster pass

[warped orbit]

oh yeah probably
hard to keep good AC as well

find yourself someone to supply you with Drakeheart Mutagen I guess haha

[turbid dagger]

My only thought is Dragon Disciple but thats requires A Whole Other Dedication

I admit I would be very sad if the unarmed stances all became unarmored only
It was nice to like
Punch as a str fighter or what have you

[echo briar]

you don't need AC, just get lucky

[turbid dagger]

real talk I'd be down for them getting the unarmored restriction universally removed
Monk is already obliged to be unarmored by their prof

[warped orbit]

would probably be fine mostly

the most desirable stances are mostly the Dex ones anyway IMO

and Dex builds already barely care about the armor restriction

[turbid dagger]

I think the biggest thing would be like uhhhh
Dragon Stance/Heavenseeker Thaumaturge

With d10 implements empowerment

But like
Cmon
Thaums just a weird little guy

Its their birthday

[solar tendon]

it's only half sustained really

[surreal basin]

Alright, I’m thinking this farmer-Saint bone relic is gonna give Plant and Celestial gifts, heavier on the plant

[frank crystal]

So do the spells from a psychic’s conscious mind count against the spells they learn from their repertoire?

[barren cipher]

mandatory spells are usually freebies

let me check though

[frank crystal]

Hmm alright

[barren cipher]

yeah they're in addition to your spell repertoire

[frank crystal]

Ok sweet

[warped orbit]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2054

just remembered this ammo

picked up a few on my Investigator, for when I can confirm a crit

[frank crystal]

Can deadly and fatal stack?

[barren cipher]

sure

off the top of my head i think you'd have to be a 15th level weapon inventor, nothing else springs to mind immediately

[turbid dagger]

There is a monk feat that gives unarmed deadly d6 so that on Wolf Drag is also a thing
But yeah that's it really

[surreal basin]

do yall think this token works for a hostile spirit attatched to a saint of farming 's body

[strange nest]

If the fellow isn’t incorporeal, I’d say yeah

[surreal basin]

….. he do be incorporeal

[strange nest]

While possessing the body?

[surreal basin]

so the spirit is attatched to a relic

and the relic is the saint's body

[turbid dagger]

So it's like
A ghost Mario netting a body while still outside it?

That is some annoying autocorrect

[warped orbit]

Assassin can also do it IIRC

[surreal basin]

yeah pretty much

they can target the body as well but it's seperate from the ghost

[strange nest]

The token is still cool and fitting for the farmer saint theme btw, it just isn’t that visually apparent it’s incorporeal, which you can easily remedy (if you desire) with some visual description. I’d just go for it if you like it 👍 :)

[frank crystal]

Oh man looking at tear down for monk, I’m definitely making a wolf stance monk

Guaranteed knockdown on hit is bonkers

Especially with backstabber innately on the strike and like, one inch punch

[turbid dagger]

Improved Knockdown is indeed good

I've been wanting to do uhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Wolf Stance Thief Rogue
Use Wolf Drag then Head Stomp
Discombobulate

[frank crystal]

Oh that’s cool

https://tenor.com/view/discombobulate-sherlock-sherlock-holmes-gif-14388058

[surreal basin]

gave it an aura of ghostly light

[strange nest]

Lookin good!

[surreal basin]

I'm thinking a mix of undead and plants in the area?

[strange nest]

Sounds cool

Could get some interesting synergy with poison spewing plants/fungi with the poison immunity of most undead

[warped orbit]

we have just encountered the ||Shuln|| in our Abom Vaults game

and it immediately ||destroyed our Barbarian's Full Plate in one crit||

[frank crystal]

Ok so after last night I’ve been thinking of a way to implement Ki Rata into PF2E

And I think I have an interesting way:

A stance that once entered grants an extremely powerful attack and passives, but every time you are hit you risk dropping it and dropping the stance deals additional damage to you

Essentially turning it into the highest reward of any stance

But that could potentially ruin you

[surreal basin]

the first encounter of a snowstorm graveyard - wandering across a bunch of guys eating a frozen corpse they dug up

[turbid dagger]

||That's what worries me about that little fucker||

||At least barbs are used to low AC||

[warped orbit]

we managed to take it out thanks to some good rolls after that

still gonna have to make a return trip to fix up the gear

[strange nest]

Ooh, channeling overwhelming power such that the slightest lapse in concentration could destroy you.

[warped orbit]

floor 9 of AV having a bunch of fights that are basically "here's a weird Darklands things" is kinda amusing to me

the ||Gogiteth|| was also pretty dangerous, but we managed to box it in thankfully

[echo briar]

My bard just got effortless concentration, and I just realized I don't have any good sustained spells other than illusionary creature. Any suggestions?

[novel merlin]

Summons are decent once you have effortless

[light gyro]

Strength of Thousands book 4 update: we got through the diplomacy chapter in five sessions (including the smatterings of combat). Party seemed to enjoy it well enough but I don't think I'd run it straight if I were to do it again

Much more excited to run the next chapter. ||I LOVE DUNGEONS. I LOVE DUNGEONS WITH SAD BACK STORIES. I LOVE LOYALTY AND LOVE THAT PERSISTS BEYOND DEATH||

[clever cobalt]

https://www.tumblr.com/pocketss/743704011444731904/happy-old-gnoll

[strange nest]

My day would also be improved by seeing a big snail :D

[strange nest]

Day improved

[sinful gyro]

Bigger the snail, the more improved?

Okay but surely there's a tipping point

Where it becomes a worse day

[heavy fulcrum]

i mean, could you imagine how awesome of a day youd have if you saw a house sized snail in a field by the roadside

[silver geyser]

No. Give me snail Kaiju

[heavy fulcrum]

jus chillin

[silver geyser]

Day immeasurably improved.

[strange nest]

Would a wounding rune stack its bleed damage with a knife crit spec?

[rustic cape]

https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/84429079/large.jpg

[strange nest]

Bleed has always seemed a bit weird to me

Like, it almost feels like it’s meant to be stacked

even though you explicitly can’t do that

stuff like Twist the Knife comes to mind

[warped orbit]

yes

because its a single application of bleed

[strange nest]

Oh neat

[fossil temple]

As a Thaum, can the wrapping of might blows be my choosen weapon or nha?

for the implement

[warped orbit]

handwraps are not a weapon, so I don't think that would work

[fossil temple]

dang, no punching thaum weapon

[rustic cape]

Yeah, it would also do weird things to Thaum’s hand economy

[warped orbit]

punch Thaum is legit though, you just can't do it with Weapon implement

but it's great for builds like double passive implements

[fossil temple]

tell me moar plz

[rustic cape]

Just don’t use wand

[fossil temple]

Was thinking Amulet first then Mirror (lv8 build)

[rustic cape]

Amulet and mirror is legit

[fossil temple]

ye, amulet to be more sturdy mirror for free flank

[thorny berry]

I feel like every time I take a look through mirror I kinda... don't get it

Like it's very cool conceptually but flanking isn't that hard to get and stuff like spreading auras further seems 'nice to have' at best

[fossil temple]

Easy flank and easy AoE when needed

As well teleporting if you make the 'reflection' the new real you

[warped orbit]

at will teleporting is neat at least

[surreal basin]

Yeah is wand just generally bad? Like is there no real use case?

[warped orbit]

it gives you a cantrip like ranged option I guess

[rustic cape]

It sucks

[fossil temple]

https://tenor.com/view/the-critic-it-stinks-jon-lovitz-gif-14290822

[surreal basin]

Oh wow it just

[warped orbit]

it becomes okay-ish at Adept, and pretty okay at Paragon

[surreal basin]

Doesn’t trigger

Exploit

[warped orbit]

but yeah I would generally not recommend it

[surreal basin]

Yeah that’s awful

If it could trigger exploit it’d be good

Or not trigger but

Benefit from

Mortal weakness/personal antithesis

[rustic cape]

It’d be rad if Thaum let you play a wand master, yea

[surreal basin]

The adept fire benefit is pretty cracked though

2d10 persistent fire damage on just a failure

Is p crazy

[warped orbit]

it's 1d10 at Adept, then 2d10 at Paragon

[surreal basin]

Oh, ye

Still

Not bad

[warped orbit]

Adept makes it decent at least

though relying on your class DC is not ideal

[surreal basin]

Isn’t thaum class dc good?

[rustic cape]

Really there should be some way to play a guy with two wands in every elfgame

Wands akimbo

[surreal basin]

also, planned out my dungeon

plants and undead

Mostly undead but there’s a twigjack and an assassin vibe in there

[rustic cape]

Vine?

[surreal basin]

Dammit I thought I corrected that

Yes, vibe

VINE

[barren cipher]

seems to me like the spirits are telling you there should be more of an assassin vibe going on in here

[surreal basin]

Lolol

Also to be clear

That last room is not the boss and 8 skeletons

The boss spawns alone and can summon skeletons

Out of the coffins

[strange nest]

The classic coffin skeletons are always cool

what level is this?

[fossil temple]

What if I want to BE the coffin skeleton?

[surreal basin]

Level 3

[strange nest]

skeleton ancestry

[fossil temple]

yes but what about the coffin part

[surreal basin]

this is the main mechanic of the fight

is that the ghost is gonna be doing this

[fossil temple]

be hero

[turbid dagger]

My thought with wand is that since its a save you can mix it in with attacks
Particularly if you are a ranged weapon thaumaturge

But still hardly uhhhh
Optimal

[warped orbit]

the 2a is mostly what makes that awkward

especially with Thaum action econ already as constrained as it is

[fierce gulch]

Can you be a fail priest in pathfinder

[warped orbit]

in what sense?

[fierce gulch]

Priest who’s exceptionally bad at following the doctrine and expected behavior of a clergy of a particular god

But nevertheless has divine power

[warped orbit]

hmmm
it's hard

[surreal basin]

if they defeat the ghost without destroying the saint's body (IE actually beat an incorp enemy with 50 hp which is a pretty tall order)

[turbid dagger]

Not really
Alas violating edicts and anathema mechanically shuts off your cleric powers
Maybe something with uhhhh
Splinter Faith? Can't remember what all that entails

[surreal basin]

theyll get a relic wiiiith

[barren cipher]

oracle does ok

[surreal basin]

these!

[warped orbit]

though I guess you can fail in upholding their edicts as long as you don't commit any anathema?

[warped orbit]

Splinter Faith mostly lets you add in a domain that your god doesn't normally have

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I suppose a reflavored oracle would work
Or even the same flavor but your oracle is extremely deluded as to what their divine powers come from

"Oh yeah sarenrae loves me"
Hacks up a lungful of ash
"Ignore that, its a blessing from sarenrae"

[fierce gulch]

Lmao

[thorny berry]

Shower thought: What if Swashbuckler had investigator-style bonus skill feats/progression limited to, like, str/dex/cha skills.

Like they are supposed to be kind of the 'skills in combat' class it's almost odd they don't have it I also still think they should get panache on all skill actions regardless of subclass but that's a separate topic

[warped orbit]

they get a few extra skill feats IIRC

[thorny berry]

oh

I'm smart

[warped orbit]

but I agree that getting more skill increases and feats would be good for them

[fierce gulch]

How about a chaotic good follower of a lawful evil god (they were born into the cult) who thinks they are ruining the lawful evil God’s plans by very creatively reinterpreting the edicts and doctrines, but somehow the reinterpretations end up benefiting the cult somehow every time

And thus they keep getting commended by the cult leadership

That would be a hilarious concept to play sometime

[surreal basin]

I think that's more a funny writing prompt than an actual character

[fierce gulch]

Maybe more as a hapless foe concept

The mysterious cult leader enemy who’s responsible for string of successful cult activity across the town who’s actually just a regular guy and he’s despondent that his nonsensical orders are somehow working

[turbid dagger]

My SOT character is almost that
A pansy Chelaxian noble boy who was pressured into an infernal contract by his abusive dad and ran away when he realized it means he'll go to hell when he dies
Now he's running around the Magaambya with his Contractually Oligated Devil Butler trying to figure a way out of the deal

[fierce gulch]

I want a contractually obligated Devil butler

[light gyro]

level construction in runescape

[turbid dagger]

You are right to want that, it's awesome
(Also play Summoner)

[fierce gulch]

It’s half the fun of being durge in BG3

Other half is blaming Astarion for your sins

[fossil temple]

Weapons that has the unarmed tag allows me to hold an item in them while striking with the weapon, right?

[warped orbit]

No, free hand weapons still need to have the hand free to actually attack

You just can hold stuff in that hand together with the weapon

[turbid dagger]

Unarmed attacks do not need a free hand usually though
Cuz they can involve kicks and headbutts and such

[barren cipher]

you can have your hands full and do unarmed stuff yeah, sometimes you may have to use specific bits and have those free

[turbid dagger]

Free hand weapons are indeed restricted tho yeah

[fossil temple]

So what you are saying is
I can hold the Amulet in one hand
Mirror in another
And still use the unarmed weapon?

[warped orbit]

Oh yeah sorry, unarmed attacks don't need a hand free

[barren cipher]

like if you have grapple jaws you can't hold things in both hands, grapple someone and then just bite someone else

[turbid dagger]

Unarmed attacks are not weapons
It's a somewhat important distinction
But yes you can double fist implements and still kick stuff

[fossil temple]

NEW META UNLOCKED /j

[barren cipher]

i think powerful fist would be enough

[turbid dagger]

But like actually tho
Stumbling stance thaum is a fiend

[barren cipher]

once you start looking at stances then you end up with a turn 1 where you can't really do anything unless you're quickened

[turbid dagger]

If your that devoted to getting a first round strike in you can just not exploit round 1

[fossil temple]

I was thinking Stone Brawler

[turbid dagger]

Oh yes, I remember that convo now
Also good

[fossil temple]

do we have something close from Pudge's hook?

[solar tendon]

not aware of a pull effect

but there is combat grapnel for ranged trip

sorry thinking of a different weapon bare with

...the aklys I guess?

[fossil temple]

That's fair
Was thinking in making a Cleaver and Hook character but I have no idea of a non magical pull effect weapon

[solar tendon]

and the Flying Talon

the new reposition action can do pulls

but idk any way to get reach or range on it

cause unlike shove it doesnt have a weapon trait

[fossil temple]

We need
Negative Shove

[solar tendon]

flying talon is a pretty cool option though

[warped orbit]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1722

does have Press unfortunately

[solar tendon]

mm

one handed reach weapon

[fossil temple]

I mean
Mix that with Flying Talon and you are golden

[surreal basin]

When the thaum in my party only has a +7 to hit at level 3

[fossil temple]

SLAMS HANDS DOWN
BIG
FAT
CLEAVER AND HOOK PULL KOBOLD BUTCHER

YES

[clever cobalt]

[solar tendon]

wouldnt work with flying talon unfortunately, because its range comes from thrown

so not a melee attack

[fossil temple]

dang

[surreal basin]

Desperately trying to field enemies this guy can hit cause aside from NPC companions he’s the only martial

[solar tendon]

but there are a few one handed reach weapons

like the whip

which you could flavour as a hook :)

[warped orbit]

only +2 Str?

oof

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Cause again, only frontliner, so also needed con

Once they hit level 5 this problem will basically be null between becoming an expert and getting a strength boost

But until then it’s uhhhh

Rough

[fossil temple]

!!!!
Good plan
best plan

[solar tendon]

pretty cool build actually

:3

[fossil temple]

Thinking fighter?
Free archetype in the cards always

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/skul/images/9/95/Ghoul_Idle.gif/revision/latest?cb=20220719165430

Blame him

[barren cipher]

honestly if you have the only frontliner being an 8hp martial with no defences then shouldn’t you just, like

let the dice fall as they may

this should not be a you problem

[warped orbit]

being the only frontliner is suffering in general tbh

[tough perch]

yeah there's only so much the GM can do to balance the game to the party

that backline gotta learn some self defence

[fossil temple]

Absolutely
But you can 100% control where the mobs are going so they try to rush the dps while you annoy the hell out of it

And hitting you is a waste of their time

[fossil temple]

Ragnarok kobold noticed.
Good taste, good taste, 10/10

[tough perch]

first time i played pathfinder2e i wanted to use dog kobolds instead of dragon ones, so i made a few kitbashes!

[limber comet]

Has anyone posted the Horned Dragon yet

[clever cobalt]

Nope

[limber comet]

Okay cool

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siio

[fossil temple]

oh do show~!

[turbid dagger]

Legally distinct dragon whomst is the same color as grass

[tough perch]

bang

[fossil temple]

Thank ya!
I love Ragnarok sprites so much ~u~

[tough perch]

are you aware of this: https://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/ragnarokonline/ ?

i think most monster dbs don't have the spritesheets

[limber comet]

Yeah that part was silly

BUT

I like the design

[turbid dagger]

Oh no I'm just saying that's a green dragon
Down to the design
They've always had the dual rhino horns
It's just the focus of their design now

[limber comet]

Oh yeah, totally fair

I didn't know they had stingers

[ocean cobalt]

hey does stumbling feint work on ki strike

[barren cipher]

stumbling feint is a bit weird

but yeah it isn't a free action with a trigger or anything, it's just sorta there as a passive

it's anyone's guess what the design intent is

[warped orbit]

Stumbling Feint just passively modifies your Flurry while in Stumbling Stance
so should work together yeah

[ocean cobalt]

nice

[frank crystal]

Ok so I’ve finally got my last players build. Here’s this campaign’s party:

A Drifter Gunslinger

A psychic investigator

A psychopomp summoner

A Druid

A beast tamer fighter

An air earth kineticist

[turbid dagger]

SIX
😨

[frank crystal]

Yes

[surreal basin]

There are only 3 players and an NPC slot so

[frank crystal]

What would y’all call a three section staff who’s sharpened both ends?

Like instead of blunt ends it’s just spikes

[solar tendon]

three section pointed stick

[turbid dagger]

Three Section Naginata 😛
https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=305

[frank crystal]

Oh shit yah that’s a thing already huh?

[turbid dagger]

Technically speaking it has a knife blade on both ends but its the same general concept

[frank crystal]

Yah

[frank crystal]

Y’all think martial air repeaters which are just bows but like, firearms with the capacity tag fine?

[surreal basin]

yeah probably

[warped orbit]

with capacity or magazines?

since you said air repeaters I assume you mean that instead of capacity

[frank crystal]

Magazines yah not capacity

Also is it generally fine to add tags to stuff in post for homebrew?

I’m planning to add a tag for blood stuff because I wanna add in some blood magic and I’d need to add it to the already existing blood magic

[surreal basin]

yeah that's fine probably

[frank crystal]

Also I was thinking of adding a sorc bloodline but “Blood Bloodline” is probably not the name to go with

Gore Bloodline works way better

[surreal basin]

Sanguine Bloodline?

[frank crystal]

Oh yah that would work too

Gore is probably better saved for like, a barbarian subclass about this stuff

[turbid dagger]

So bad news:
The PBP Abomination Vaults game I'm in isn't happening because two of the players have been consistently slow as molasses with their posts during the Dinner At Lionlodge oneshot we've been doing to warm uo
Good news:
The GM felt bad because I was a good player (🥺 ) so invited me to their PBP Season Of Ghosts game instead

[frank crystal]

Damn that sucks dude

[warped orbit]

that's how you build TTRPG connections

[turbid dagger]

Real talk I am glad I am not doing abomination vaults with those two
It would have been like bamboo torture

This new SoG group seems much more pleasant

[warped orbit]

That slow to respond?

[turbid dagger]

The game started February 5th
We have been in one fight

[warped orbit]

oof

okay yeah that's bad

[turbid dagger]

TBH this is probably a net plus
Because like
I am running AbomVaults
So now instead of playing and GMing the same module, I am GMing one and playing another

[frank crystal]

Fair enough

Was it just they were slow to type?

Or was there other issues?

[turbid dagger]

They just did not post a lot
Me and another player drove the plot forward mostly
And one had what seems like an ever present issue for me in PBP games
They just were not very good at writing
They "typed character dialogue like this" (that is to say, with no capitalization and periods) and made silly jokes where it was not very appropriate

[frank crystal]

Oh that’s very annoying

Also wait was this the game with your devil eidolon summoner?

[turbid dagger]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
That's my SOT group they are very very very lovely
This was a PBP group I recently joined
We are doing Dinner At Lionlodge, and will still finish it
We were gonna do AbomVaults after, but thats gotten the axe

I'm doing a bow paladin champ for this

And was gonna do a Spirit Barb for AbomVaults

[frank crystal]

Ohhhh ok

I am happy to hear that game is still going

[turbid dagger]

Me too 😌
Mario deserves the best

[frank crystal]

My favorite emo

[turbid dagger]

Now I'm thinking about a season of ghosts char

[frank crystal]

What’s the premise?

[turbid dagger]

Season Of Ghosts is an official AP, as I understand its basically 'you are some country bumpkins in rural shenmen, your home village is Wicked Cursed'

And our group is-
Str Monk with free archetype Wrestler
Cloistered Cleric free archetype Medic
Investigator free archetype Unexpected Sharpshooter
Tome Thaum free archetype Marshal
So if I'm purely filling niches that implies some blaster caster
But they've also said that another frontliner would be good

Real talk Spirit Barbarian would probably still be good

[frank crystal]

Probably yah

Taking the anti ghost barbarian in the ghost AP is a pretty obvious choice

[solar storm]

A toolbox wizard would also probably do pretty well there

[turbid dagger]

toolbox wizard

Noooooo I don't wanna be the guy who fills all his spell slots with shit like 'speak to stone door', 'unflip cat', and 'air ladder'
Yes I know unflipping cats is actually super useful sometimes but man it seems like a miserable way to play the game

[warped orbit]

That's the funniest way I've seen it described lmao

[silver geyser]

But consider my counterpoint to Unflip Cat being a waste of a spell slot

https://tenor.com/view/toast-cat-cruel-angels-thesis-gif-20884308