I mean what’s it’s competition besides ranger and animal trainer?
#Pathfinder
frank crystal
solar tendon
technically fastest because they can get AC at level 1
frank crystal
Oh nice
solar tendon
ranger is just slower
because they used to have to wait for level 4 to get one
but it doesn't really translate especially since ranger can just. go beastmaster
or cavalier
frank crystal
Also yah the elemental druid orders kinda just get a combat focus spell and free level 1 feat to compensate for wild and animal getting entire subsystems to play with
Heal companion is fine for combat but obviously only good for an animal companion build and wildshape is a whole build so the elemental orders are more there for building singularly spellcasting focused Druids
And leaf’s goodberriers are also probably best for out of combat stuff
frank crystal
but it doesn't really translate especially since ranger can just. go beastmaster
I mean yah but that’s kinda assuming you have FA
which like, I always run but I don’t think it’s fair to assume everyone does
And in that case druid is faster and has the benefit of not needing feats as much as martial
solar tendon
it does cost an extra feat kinda
frank crystal
Whenever there’s a level with an animal companion feat you just go beastmaster instead
And choose ranger feats whenever there isn’t
solar tendon
mhm
turbid dagger
Beastmaster is a very easy archetype to take because its dedication is actually equivalent to a class feat
Usually the dedication is kind of a tax
solar tendon
there's some weirdness cause you do still have to take the ranger feat to get a companion for it to benefit from your hunter's edge
but beastmaster gives you two companions then
turbid dagger
Like Barb ain't gettin nothin from Mauler ded, it wants the stuff after
But BM just gives you a dog
solar tendon
familiar master is the same
cause if you already have it it becomes enhanced familiar
frank crystal
But BM just gives you a dog
Or other stranger animal
solar tendon
pretty much anything that can give you expert is pretty dope too
like wrestler's dedication is pretty stacked
even if the individual benefits aren't huge
turbid dagger
Yeah the prof boosts are kind of dry but generically useful
Luv me Marshal
Getting Intimidating Prowess at level 2
frank crystal
Marshal is great
Also looking at the elemental orders
The tempest surge focus spell seems pretty great
D12 damage with auto heightening, clumsy 2 and persistent lightning damage on a failure seems really good
turbid dagger
Yeah, I love the storm focus spell
We've got a druid in our kingmaker group and him and my Fighter do Things
solar tendon
I used rising surf to make a weird build where you have a shark companion on land
frank crystal
Yeah, I love the storm focus spell
We've got a druid in our kingmaker group and ...
Oh nice
solar tendon
basically use it with geomancer so you can attunement shift to water and then cast another water spell to grant your shark a land speed equal to its swim speed using shared attunement
frank crystal
Horrifying
limber comet
Landshark
trail nova
… reminds me of my “forcibly inflict aquatic combat” build from 1e.
trail nova
… reminds me of my “forcibly inflict aquatic combat” build from 1e.
Player’s responsibility to bring the relevant flowcharts and rule sections.
young chasm
late to the convo but having played a druid for 2ish years here's my thoughts on the class;
it's a very "blaster caster" forward class first, and a healer secondary. and i only think it's a healer secondary because of 2 things:
-
it's a primal prepared caster, meaning it has to the heal and vital beacon spell, but by nature of being prepared you will just have less casts available for healing when you could be preparing a lot of the good blasting options that primal has. you could probably prepare an extra bit of healing if you went something like storm order and relied on tempest surge, which is an amazing focus spell to have as a blaster
-
it's a wisdom key ability class. by nature of that, you will just have a high medicine, and it's very easy to pick up the medicine skill feats as a result. with the recent buffs to natural medicine as well, it makes druid an ideal out of combat treat-wounds healer. you can make this MUCH better if your game is playing with free archetype and you decide to pick up the medic dedication.
so i would never consider a druid a 'primary' healer because of these two things, but they make excellent "emergency" healers!
rapid wagon
hmm is it on the same level of blaster caster as the wizard who is trying to do the same? In my experience druids are often a bit more indiscriminate and large aoe with abilities
in 1e i mean
rapid wagon
ok neat
don't have one lined up but druids always a class im interested in
they're just not a great fit for a Blood Lords campaign
young chasm
they get access to things like fireball, lightning storm, lightning bolt, etc etc
most of their blaster spells are reflex save
i would even go as far to say that they're even more blasty than wizards, in 2e specifically
the arcane spell list has a LOT of utility and less blasty options ime
but ymmv!
thorny berry
… reminds me of my “forcibly inflict aquatic combat” build from 1e.
have I got a spell for you https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1394
frank crystal
Y’all think for a game starting at 3, ending the first arc with a fight at level 6 vs a level 9 boss be a good idea?
turbid dagger
Y’all think for a game starting at 3, ending the first arc with a fight at level...
That's probably fine
Severe encounter, but you aren't crossing any important thresholds like two damage dice->three damage dice
Thats the big thing to watch out for with PL+ bosses I think
Accidentally crossing the hump where players are swinging striking weapons and probably missing while the boss is swinging greater striking and probably critting
turbid dagger
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
So
I'm prepping for a session 0
I have been for several days but its very soon now and I wanna check myself
Right now the topics I have are
Content Warnings for the module (Abomination Vaults, it already lists those so sick) and safety tools
How people want to resolve secrets being kept between PCs (one player's backstory hinges on a particularly big falsehood, and I want to know if the crew wants to be 'in the know' or be as surprised as their characters)
Rule conflicts (what does the crew want to happen if we cannot for the life of us find out what a rules interaction is supposed to result in in a reasonable timeframe)
Lethality (what is the baseline level of killiness the team wants- are they expecting a Fight Pit full of instant aggro hellbeasts or to be able to maybe talk to humanoids first)
turbid dagger
Anything else pressing/anything you always do in yours?
frank crystal
You think it’d be a good idea to give a gunslinger rival NPC a special reload like the gunslingers ways have?
Something like reload one of his guns+intimidate a creature
solar storm
Yeah that seems cool
solar tendon
definitely
solar storm
very exciting day in the Abomination Vaults
warped orbit
Did they pull multiple encounters together?
warped orbit
Nice
solar storm
Did they pull multiple encounters together?
Yes in ||the library||
turbid dagger
Guyssssssssssssssss
I have gotten Hunter Instinct into a JSON for Pathbuilder 😌
Unfortunately a lot of pathbuilders custom pack options are hard to make work for the stuff it does, but there are custom buffs you can apply pretty easily to replicate the intended effects (making ranged weapons use str to hit, damage override for adding rage+upgraded propulsive, so on), so I just put what settings to change in the description for the instinct
All I need to figure out now is kludging the effects for Foundry
Wow I sure wish it didn't show the whole JSON when I posted it
frank crystal
Guyssssssssssssssss
I have gotten Hunter Instinct into a JSON for Pathbuilder 😌...
Nice!
unborn rain
in a world where a petty criminal can be like level 3
frank crystal
this dude can 1v1 wyverns
unborn rain
You gotta be able to defend
frank crystal
This is the power of leading a union
solar storm
very exciting day in the Abomination Vaults
Update: this was sick as hell
They defeated many of the weaker monsters and successfully fought a fighting retreat off the level of the dungeon
No one died but a lot of people were below 10 hp and the party kineticist was Sickened and at 2d4+2 persistant damage
But we have so much out of combat healing that they managed to powerheal through it
clever cobalt
Nice
warped orbit
They defeated many of the weaker monsters and successfully fought a fighting ret...
had a similar experience on that level with my group
solar thorn
The ||Library|| has some nasty shit, solid work by your team
warped orbit
did they ||accept the invitation from the ghouls, or just alert all of them at once?||
because our group did the former, despite us being sure it was an obvious trap 😛
solar thorn
oh no
solar storm
did they ||accept the invitation from the ghouls, or just alert all of them at o...
The latter, the whole combat happened within about 15-20 feet of the western ||library|| entrance
solar thorn
Did the enemies get chokepointed up? I recall those are some narrow passages
warped orbit
oh no
still went fairly okay all things considered
we opened a way out and did a fighting retreat back to the stairs
solar thorn
The ||ghouls|| honestly didn't give my players too much trouble
it was all the extraneous shit on that floor that kept putting people on the ground
Thought I was gonna have a revolt first time they got clapped by the ||invisible stalker||
warped orbit
The ||ghouls|| honestly didn't give my players too much trouble
it was all the e...
the ||ghouls|| were fine mostly, just when you basically fight all of them at once because of dumb decisions it gets a bit dicey 😛
but some of the other encounters on that floor can also get nasty, yeah
though the ||stalker|| I don't think we had that much trouble with
might have just been some good rolls, I don't remember anymore
solar thorn
||ghouls|| aren't too scary until someone takes an L on that saving throw and doesn't have a hero point
Then you have issues
warped orbit
an important thing to remember is that ||ghoul paralysis is incap traited, so anyone level 2 and higher benefits from incapacitation against it||
solar thorn
oh shit I forgot that rule
Glad no one died because of that mishap
warped orbit
an important thing to remember is that ||ghoul paralysis is incap traited, so an...
for the basic ones at least
solar storm
||ghouls|| aren't too scary until someone takes an L on that saving throw and do...
Yeah luckily we had a real high fort party so they needed nat 1s
silver geyser
I mean, there's also the fact that a not insubstantial amount of the wealthy in Caliphas are vampires.
sinful gyro
It's the eye of dread
Shits messed up, man and monster alike
Capitalist vampires eating the poor is like what I'd expect on a tuesday
turbid dagger
Oh my god
I just realized
Bow Hunter Barb would have a hand free
So could use Friendly Toss
Send your frontline in and have them Strike a dude, then shoot their ass also
I'm making premades for the playtest and am seeing some very neat combos I did not realize existed
limber comet
Mios is just based
stuck bane
Oh gosh doing harrow readings is fun
Used the foundry module to do unplanned readings for the party as a whole and each member as an epilogue session to Abomination Vaults, and we still got readings that felt very fitting for leading into Stolen Fate
trail nova
... sometimes I forget that Taldor has the ability to build a warship in a week. You know. Normal ship-building speeds.
turbid dagger
First session of abomvaults finished!
It went really well
We went through session 0 admin really well, did some shopping, did a vibe-heavy swamp walk to set the tone, then did our first encounter with the ||pixie gremlins||
Two fled after taking damage and I had the other pass out foaming at the mouth after losing most of its health, getting Frightened 2 off a crit demoralize, and Restrained off a crit Grapple
strange nest
Has anyone tried running champion and the like with the remaster errata spirit damage?
barren cipher
people have run champ with flat damage instead of alignment and they seemed to think it was fine
you need an awful lot to compete with +2 to hit
turbid dagger
Do you count as Wielding a firearm when using a combination weapon even if its currently in the melee profile?
I'm unsure due to the weirdness of 'you can make a followup shot if you strike with the melee end'
Wondering how useful Fake Out is on a combination weapon user
Also wondering for Defensive Armaments
Can I do sick blocks with a gun sword
warped orbit
I believe you only count as wielding it when in the appropriate profile, but not entirely sure
light gyro
ant gnolls are significantly shorter so on average you are correct
limber comet
Orcs and kobolds are common now
turbid dagger
Man Vishkanya are fucking huge
clever cobalt
They're the tallest ancestry iirc
At least currently
I imagine Minotaurs will be taller
heavy fulcrum
theyre described as 6 to 7 feet tall, so the person who made this chart just made them a bit too big
strange nest
I should play I paladin I think. I want to strike things retributively .
warped orbit
the AoN patreon has put out an announcement
the remaster should be up on March 13th
barren cipher
paladin is great
really enjoyed my paladin experience
redeemer is probably better overall and liberator is also pretty good except when it isn’t
which is when it is fantastic
warped orbit
Redeemer is pretty good, though I'd probably put it even with Paladin
Paladin gives more damage, Redeemer gives strong debuffs
Liberator is hard to evaluate IMO
the Step can sometimes be huge, and sometimes it doesn't do much
turbid dagger
Against a lot of melee dudes it's Scuffed Stunned 1
If they were squaring off with your bud
barren cipher
haha, i three action activity metastrike you for six hits, my first attack hits and… you’re now out of reach? so i guess i do… nothing?
turbid dagger
Draconic Frenzy Havers,
(though a lot of the time they have extra reach to play with but)
barren cipher
they usually abuse that reach though
turbid dagger
Speaking of weird cool niche stuff
I am now obsessed with barbarians friendly toss
Toss your pal around to flank with you then smash your enemies face in
They get a strike too!
strange nest
the AoN patreon has put out an announcement
the remaster should be up on March 1...
Pog!
warped orbit
Friendly Toss is pretty good yeah
rustic cape
I should play I paladin I think. I want to strike things retributively .
I strongly recommend polearm paladin with ranged reprisal
It's a lot of fun
strange nest
I strongly recommend polearm paladin with ranged reprisal
or anything with reach I imagine
rustic cape
Yeah
frank crystal
I strongly recommend polearm paladin with ranged reprisal
I really wanna play a breaching pike champion so bad
turbid dagger
Spear and shield is a gigantic vibe
strange nest
Undead slaying Kusarigama Paladin 🧐
slashing for zombies, bludgeoning for skeletons
turbid dagger
Oh wow
I never noticed that the kusarigama is like
Actually kind of kickass as a weapon
Disarm trip reach and versatile for the two good damage types
That makes it genuinelly competitive with the likes of the guisarme
warped orbit
Kusarigama is pretty good, yeah
turbid dagger
Sudden urge to make an inventor with one
rustic cape
My paladin is using a guisarme but is trying to find a gill hook to switch to
Because the gill hook is funny
warped orbit
Disarm trip reach and versatile for the two good damage types
oh huh, I had missed that it's S damage with versatile B
turbid dagger
Gill hook is very cool
strange nest
Disarm trip reach and versatile for the two good damage types
Also apparently the remastered disarm is a lot nicer
warped orbit
it's actually a usable action now
turbid dagger
I Am Well Aware
I am now the prophet of disarm actually
warped orbit
because the Success does something useful
strange nest
target has to spend an action to adjust their grip and to the effects of a success, putting it more on-par with trip
turbid dagger
Disrupting Stance fighter with Disarming Twist
shudder
warped orbit
lmao
Disrupting Stance is kinda crazy in general tbh
absolute nightmare for casters
fossil temple
this needs to be a pin
eager mountain
I imagine Minotaurs will be taller
Minotaur is the first large ancestry
paper inlet
Lorg
fossil temple
big boi
unborn rain
but perhaps they will simply be very wide, whilst being quite short
fossil temple
I just hope they make a better job than D&D5e did with the flying bird ancestry (lv1 flight is busted, who knew)
unborn rain
pathfinder's already got flying ancestries
It's almost needed first level ancestry feet for Sprites as it lets them exist.
(The feat lets them essentially act as small because they can fly a bit)
instead of being, stuck on the ground
fossil temple
yes but that is an special case
in 5e it was a medium creature with free 30feet fly
in Pathfinder is a tiny creature that can fly enough to essentially be small
unborn rain
yeah that's me saying that they've already gotten past the flying Ancestry problem
warped orbit
yes but that is an special case
in 5e it was a medium creature with free 30feet ...
50 ft flying speed actually 😛
unborn rain
like that they've already shown the ability to make a flying ancestry in a way which isnt overpowered infinite flight
warped orbit
the original version at least
rapid wagon
starfinder does not appear to have any such concerns about large or flying options
there are myriad
warped orbit
Starfinder is a little different because its inherently way more range focused
flying is less of an issue when most enemies have guns
barren cipher
you had fairly ready access to flight in pf1 as well
fossil temple
50 ft flying speed actually 😛
fast hill
I accidentally promised my players Free Archetype
when I meant to promise them "you can take an archetype dedication at level 1 and pay for it at level 2"
actually fuck it
fuck it
free archetype it is
eager mountain
I accidentally promised my players Free Archetype
Nothing wrong with free archetype
In fact I prefer it
fossil temple
I absolutely love it
specially if your players are dumbasses and will forget half of it anyway
surreal basin
i don’t envy whoever has to try to balance a level 1 large ancestry
Tbh I don’t think it’s actually a huge deal
warped orbit
well yeah, it's only a large deal obviously
strange nest
tryna figure out what the deal with the Nodachi is, and the limitations of the Ready action by extent
surreal basin
The “you can hit extra squares” probably is only really a problem in theory imo
warped orbit
tryna figure out what the deal with the Nodachi is, and the limitations of the R...
do you mean just the Brace tag, or what?
strange nest
Pretty much
surreal basin
And they have equal disadvantages to our weight anything they’ve got going for them, like being just the easiest boys to hit with an aoe
silver geyser
In practice, large size just comes with dungeon issues
Five foot wide corridors, my old foe
warped orbit
Five foot wide corridors, my old foe
it's only difficult terrain at least, but yeah
strange nest
do you mean just the Brace tag, or what?
And I know it’s probably asked a lot, but you can’t ready something like a Power Attack, right?
surreal basin
Yeah squeezing rules make it not an issue
warped orbit
And I know it’s probably asked a lot, but you can’t ready something like a Power...
you can Ready anything that takes only 1 action
surreal basin
And RAW you can only ready one action activities but - yeah
My group has allowed you to take 3 actions to ready a 2 action
But that’s just a houserule
warped orbit
but Brace is also specifically only when you Ready a Strike, and only when you Ready it to trigger off an enemy moving into/inside your reach
strange nest
Darn, I was kinda hoping you could use it with something like lunge 
solar storm
~~well yeah, it's only a large deal obviously~~
Dammit I was gonna say that
warped orbit
attack of opportunity benefits from brace
it's a niche benefit, yeah
can potentially matter to someone with Combat Reflexes
or, if you ever reach that far, Boundless Reprisals
which sidenote, Boundless Reprisals is so sick
unfortunate its a level 20 feat, though it of course needed to be
barren cipher
Tbh I don’t think it’s actually a huge deal
nah it's a big deal
the issues are minor, you treat most tight spaces as just difficult terrain
the amount of battlefield presence it gives you is absurd
try playing a cavalier/mounted beastmaster or something, even though your reach sucks and your mount can just get blown up it's great
surreal basin
I mean I’ve played with a giant Barbarian before and it really wasn’t too crazy
I just mean that being large from level 1 isn’t a crazy huge power boost imo
Or at least that’s not the crazy part of giant Barb
It is funny that until huge giant barb large fellas won’t get bigger as a sidenote
barren cipher
giant barb pays a lot for it though
surreal basin
They’re kinda paying mostly the for insane damage
- for the
Idk, I’m interested in how they do it for sure
Part of me expects them to be banned from getting the benefits of reach
But I hope they don’t do anything silly like make them inherently clumsy or something lol
surreal basin
Because making an ancestry permanently clumsy kinda blows
Pretty wildly restricts what they can do and not suck
Plus those ancestries are paying for the effects of enlarge +, not just being large
Like a large ancestry wouldn’t get the reach boost, the melee damage boost, or the HP boost that most of these feats gives
Tbh I imagine they’re going to be rare for the reasons of being controversial like this anywho
rapid wagon
is it still considered secretly assumed that you're supposed to get permanenetly enlarged in 2e?
surreal basin
Oh god no
rapid wagon
good i never liked that
turbid dagger
I'm on team 'just make them large with no bullshit' yeah
Yes you will cover a bunch of squares with a reach weapon
Reach Paladin and Fighter were already going to be getting their reactions off constantly
surreal basin
You also have a harder time using cover for either cover or stealth, easier to catch in AOEs, etc
RAW youd also have gear issues but I don’t know anyone who actually makes small races unable to use medium gear so it would stand to reason large can use it too
silver geyser
Yeah, Large tends to be a net neutral in my mind.
You get more area, sure. But you also take more area.
solar tendon
do Large companions have reach?
turbid dagger
No iirc
solar tendon
doesn't seem like it yeah
solar tendon
kinda surprised it's not a modification option at any point
surreal basin
A wah?
solar tendon
for construct companions
surreal basin
Oh
solar tendon
but you can give it a gun so
silver geyser
Oh, at a certain point you can just make your Construct Companion Large.
Without a need for a modification.
solar tendon
no I mean reach
you can make your construct large at level 1 with a modification, then you get a free retrain if you make it large with the level 4 feat
turbid dagger
I'm sad that large eidolons takes so much time
I want my huge plant eidolon with global range already
rapid wagon
honestly, in the course of a normal adventure that you might be running yourself, if you have large characters, you just account for that as a gm
solar tendon
but yeah I agree with the basis that like, the real benefit that makes enlarge a level 2 spell is reach and +2 damage in exchange for clumsy 1
the Large bit is kinda flavour comparatively
silver geyser
What can you ride as a large creature?
barren cipher
being big is extremely good
solar tendon
also you can do cav stuff from level 1
surreal basin
Don’t get me wrong it has advantages
solar tendon
and especially easy from level 2
surreal basin
Also true yeah
barren cipher
there are significant downsides to being mounted though
trail nova
Frankly this sort of stuff is why I'm really not confident about SF2e. "Flight can't be level 1, hold breath is a mid-level option for ancestries" are thing we've already seen, when it's a setting with easy access to space suits and more answers to flight.
solar tendon
sf2e doesn't have to follow those rules afaik
silver geyser
SF1e didn't follow those rules in the first place.
trail nova
sf2e doesn't have to follow those rules afaik
The android has "hold breath for 1 hour" as a 9th level feat.
surreal basin
i mean I can see that being useful even if space suits and stuff exist
silver geyser
I will also say that being able to hold your breath for incredibly long periods of time is more valuable than flying.
surreal basin
like if you get spaced
silver geyser
Anything involving atmospheres that aren't the norm.
surreal basin
ye
trail nova
i mean I can see that being useful even if space suits and stuff exist
Enviromental Protections were basically free and very long duration. 2e is cutting back on that, but hopefully not to such an extent.
surreal basin
right yeah but you aren't bringing the everywhere
or always gonna have time to put them on
ancestry stuff is intentionally more situational, ime
trail nova
If you had any armor at all in 1e, including the really "it looks like normal clothes" stuff you had no need to breath outside gas for 24 hours.
surreal basin
I doubt that will be the case anymore yeah
as in pf1 to pf2, i am assuming nothing will carry over
it is essentially a new game
trail nova
I'm looking at PF2e to SF2e and... not liking what I'm seeing.
surreal basin
I'm sorry
strange nest
it's a niche benefit, yeah
I feel like brace would be a lot better if it just gave you damage on reaction strikes in general, perhaps with the damaged decreased to 1 to compensate
surreal basin
also
if my players are new to pf2e but starting at level 2
it makes sense to give them a little over the reccomended wealth in stuff over the course of their first level, yeah
?
barren cipher
there's a good table
surreal basin
oh yeah i saw
barren cipher
i'd just give them whatever it says for 1st on that
surreal basin
oh wait that table has extra wealth on it too
barren cipher
that's what they're supposed to have as fresh level 2s out of their first dungeon
surreal basin
right yeah
warped orbit
It's fine to go a little over too
surreal basin
I'll just combine level one and two
warped orbit
Gold increases so fast anyway
surreal basin
I have the level 1 wealth basically behind an optional encounter anyhow
like they got the starting money for level 2
but i have somewehre like 150 gp of items behind a funny little guy
(spring heeled jack)
barren cipher
there's also the treasure for new characters table
surreal basin
oh yeah I gave them the lump sum
limber comet
We need more cryptid statblocks
clever cobalt
We need a cryptid ancestry
surreal basin
using an edited spring heeled jack as a like
barren cipher
lump sum stiffs heavy armour characters a bit
clever cobalt
When are we getting a Mothman ancestry
surreal basin
also
frank crystal
When are we getting a Mothman ancestry
Tomorrow
clever cobalt
:0
surreal basin
i'm using this spring-heeled jack as the like
local cryptid
who is the dead soul of a thief from a long time ago that's given life again by local legend
turbid dagger
Genetically he's a red dragon sorcerer but in his soul he's a pistolero slimger
fierce gulch
I dropped my sword as a sword monk to grapple a tiny creature
warped orbit
no free hand?
turbid dagger
no free hand?
Shield
It worked out though
They crit
fierce gulch
It was an evil creature
turbid dagger
Hit em with the
fierce gulch
But the experience did make me wonder if I should’ve brought a buckler
So that I have a free hand with which to grapple tiny creatures with
rapid wagon
do bucklers strap to your arm in the pathfinder universe?
ive never played buckler using character
or are they more like the grip is thin enough to pair with something in the hand
turbid dagger
It is widely up to the player
Either its strapped to the arm or it has a thin handle you can hold while doing something else
The point is you can use the buckler hand for other things (though you can't also use the buckler while doing so)
rustic cape
That’s weird considering one of the central features of a buckler is that it’s hand-held
turbid dagger
For a bow monk character of mine their buckler was just a thick metal bracer around their draw hand's forearm
That they used to block wonder woman style
turbid dagger
That’s weird considering one of the central features of a buckler is that it’s h...
Its small and unobtrusive
It is held in the hand but much like how I double fist two shopping bags at once when transporting groceries you can sneak another item in there because of how light it is
rapid wagon
That’s weird considering one of the central features of a buckler is that it’s h...
this was my initial thought, but i just assumed a buckler was a different thing in pathfinder verse xD
thorny berry
That’s weird considering one of the central features of a buckler is that it’s h...
I mean if we're talking historicity the ancient adversary has yet to be vanquished
rapid wagon
there are fighting systems though, that us a buckler paired with a knife in hand, and the same with the larger targe iirc
turbid dagger
Observe the iconic swash's buckler
rapid wagon
actually quite like tha they have a buckler
is cape fighting a thing in pf2e as of yet? or is that a job fo flavor?
warped orbit
Dueling Cape exists
thorny berry
there's Dueling Cape as an item that works like a- yeah
warped orbit
its basically a more niche buckler
turbid dagger
There's a dueling cape but uhhhhh nothing specific
Could easily flavor snagging strike as something like that
warped orbit
its basically a more niche buckler
still takes up the hand for giving +1 AC, but it also gives the bonus to Feints
turbid dagger
I mean if we're talking historicity the ancient adversary has yet to be vanquish...
I love studded leather
It looks cool
I like to envision my hide wearing characters as basically wearing upgunned studded leather
warped orbit
I mean if we're talking historicity the ancient adversary has yet to be vanquish...
rename all mentions of studded leather to gambesons, done
rapid wagon
so historically, a studded leather is actually just a brigandine
warped orbit
yeah but actual brigandine would probably be medium
rapid wagon
also yeah xD
rustic cape
The funny thing about a dueling cape is that we imagine it as like this specific tool, but in fact it was “shitshitshit I don’t have a main-gauche I know I’ll wrap my cloak around my arm”
warped orbit
there were dedicated dueling capes too
rapid wagon
well its a lot like historical iaido. It wasn't about literally resheathing your sword to sworddraw fight, it was specific training to be ready to draw and fight from any body position
dueling with capes being born out of a "you're wearing a cape and fighting for your life, and thick cloth is an effective defense against blades"
warped orbit
they have weighted linings, for easier twirling and so you can hit someone with them
heavy fulcrum
also studded leather is explicitly the a-historical "leather with metal studs" and Paizo absolutely did it on purpose
and gambesons are sort of in the game as padded armor
turbid dagger
also studded leather is explicitly the a-historical "leather with metal studs" a...
Good
Historical fight nerds need to be humbled on occasion
I'm going to go Aerial Piledriver someone with my animal barb now
barren cipher
you can't tell me that putting spikes on leather doesn't make it more protective, that's just common sense
rapid wagon
yeah padded armor is just a gambeson, really
barren cipher
rob halford wouldn't lie to me
warped orbit
padded is mostly fine, it just gets me to my general gripes about the comfort tag
heavy fulcrum
theres also quilted armor for something heavier
turbid dagger
yeah but actual brigandine would probably be medium
Though this is actually a pretty solid 'civilized' reflavor of Hide armor yeah
heavy fulcrum
no wait, quilted is actually lighter what the fuck
heavy fulcrum
quilted is a strictly worse version of padded why does this exist
clever cobalt
heavy fulcrum
no wait, its +2 AC instead of +1 but everything else is worse
clever cobalt
Confy
heavy fulcrum
also the comfort tag isn't "this is comfortable" so much as "you can actually lay down and sleep normally in this"
clever cobalt
yeah
warped orbit
yes, that's my issue with it
or more specifically, that it's a tax on the armors that have it
because all the comfort armor caps out at +4 bonus instead of +5
my problem with that is, that getting ambushed outside of your armor is so insanely dangerous that it probably shouldn't happen anyway
rapid wagon
see, i happen to be of the other opinion mostly because i like the fantasy of taking off my armor when i sleep regularly and thinking about when if im armored up
warped orbit
or if it does, you need to adjust the encounter difficult to account for people having way lower AC
which then also kinda defeats the point anyway
rapid wagon
and i think its weird when people walk around in town in full armor expecting people to be completely comfortable with it
i dunno if it defeats the point, rather it makes the danger appropriate
turbid dagger
or if it does, you need to adjust the encounter difficult to account for people ...
I do think the general approach expected is to scale down the danger to account for the lower AC to give the feel of an unexpected scary night time ambush
Like uh, it does 'defeat the point' in practical terms but then there's the Vibes of not being safe where you sleep
warped orbit
yeah I get that
turbid dagger
To make 'getting caught with your armor off' actually more dangerous
rapid wagon
cause i think the point of driving tension and narratively exploiting a vulnerability that's real makes sense to me
and would be the point
warped orbit
my issue is more about the comfort tag
because its a penalty on that armor, for a benefit that might never even come up
rapid wagon
that and having a fight that's more dangerous, just in general, is ok from time to time
barren cipher
it's just another one of those 'you picked the wrong class? get fucked' encounters
warped orbit
and when it does come up, it likely just makes something that is regular challenging easier
turbid dagger
But yeah, this is all immaterial in the face of 'comfort armor is bad'
I would simply take the night time ambush with no armor
barren cipher
heavy armour class in a night attack? get fucked
spellcasters in a golem encounter? get fucked
precision damage class vs. undead? etc.
i don't think any of those have really ever been fun or built tension
warped orbit
yeah heavy armor is mostly why I think it sucks
rapid wagon
I mean, people in pf have always looked down on preparatory classes as being unoptimized cause they don't go balls deep on a single mode of combat
like a heavy armor class can also carry back up light armor or heck, comfort armor
frank crystal
Actually how quickly can you put on heavy armor?
warped orbit
because a heavy armor user caught out of armor can have as much as -4 AC compared to normal, plus whatever their potency is
which is a gigantic penalty
warped orbit
like a heavy armor class can also carry back up light armor or heck, comfort arm...
most heavy already includes free padded
barren cipher
it takes forever
warped orbit
but that's still easily 4 less AC than normal
rapid wagon
like, at least in pf1, some classes often had worse AC than the heavy armor guy, but traded off by accessing it more often, there's no trade if the heavy guy is just always better right?
barren cipher
five minutes
frank crystal
Oh damn
barren cipher
two and a half if you have a friend with a skill feat
rapid wagon
does pf2e have fighting defensively/ total defense or other protective actions?
barren cipher
not really
rustic cape
Raise Shield
barren cipher
raise a shield/take cover kinda stuff
turbid dagger
like a heavy armor class can also carry back up light armor or heck, comfort arm...
This is the default actually cuz- yeah integrated padded
In our kingmaker game my hobgoblin heavy armor fighter has already faced the 'sudden gank in padded armor' and survived it mostly fine
warped orbit
there's no general purpose defensive action
rapid wagon
I guess like... to me its weird to be like "If I can't fight in my most optimized state them im worthless" (as a hyperbole) Its a bad take
sometimes you don't get to apply all of your tools or your advantages
thats how adventures work
warped orbit
I'm not saying worthless
but it is a significant enough difference that you probably need to account for it in your encounter balance
rustic cape
PF2e has relatively tight math
warped orbit
because all the math is predicated on you having the AC that you "should" have at your level
turbid dagger
Yeah its really trying to be tactics mathgame design wise so narrative penalties can be a bit polarizing
warped orbit
and not having your armor throws that off completely
rapid wagon
That's valid i suppose
but i am still opposed to the idea of like
being at a disadvantage due to narrative circumstances being somehow off the table, or having the tools to account for those circumstances/mitigate rather than solve being a negative thing
warped orbit
my larger point was ultimately more I just wish comfort armor just wasn't penalized for the tag
just give padded and armored coat that extra +1 AC potential, it probably won't change anything anyway
rapid wagon
I do also think that as a GM, if comfort never benefits the person in question, that's something of a gm thing not a game thing
to an extent
warped orbit
my larger point was ultimately more I just wish comfort armor just wasn't penali...
whether that's through item bonus or Dex cap
rapid wagon
like if they never get attacked at night, and the guy wearing comfortable armor doesn't get to benefit from having made that pick, thats cause the GM never had an attack at night happen, rather than the circumstance never organically coming up. I suppose published adventures are something of an exception to that
in a way its kinda like "should players set watches at night"
well if you're never gonna have anything threaten them at night, the answer is no
rustic cape
Questions like that also depend on the social contract of the game in question
Table politics are a thing wherever you go
strange nest
heavy armour class in a night attack? get fucked
spellcasters in a golem encount...
Slight correction, It’s oozes that are (typically) Immune to precision, not undead. I know this because I played through some of The Slithering as a precision ranger
I don’t think anyone in the party had a bludgeoning weapon
it was painful
rustic cape
And shadows screams in Abomination Vaults
warped orbit
yeah incorporeal stuff in general tends to be precision immune
trail nova
Ugh. Least favorite part of PF APs: trying to figure out how to strip out the Subsystem (tm) that Pazio wrote. (And yeah, sometimes it's good, but there's a lot of stinkers, and often they are made plot relevant somehow.)
echo briar
I mean, of the two APs with subsystems (tribe movement in QFtFF and the harrow court in stolen fate) were pretty good
Really, the only “bad” things I’ve heard about are the circus system and kingmaker
trail nova
Uhh. Maybe 2e is better. 1e had some strong stinkers, ranging from “spreadsheet fun shoehorned in” to “will get PCs killed”
echo briar
Ah, 1e, that explains it
trail nova
And I don’t think I trust Pazio’s track record to consistently shoot above “spreadsheet fun” and into “actually engaging”
silver geyser
Which AP are you fiddling with?
turbid dagger
2e's examples are fine imo and, more to the point, exteremely removable (except kingmaker obviously)
Like SOT's academia is very easy to just not do
silver geyser
Also, 1e does have a genuinely engaging subsytem.
echo briar
The two I've delt with have required no spreadsheets, and have been pretty fun, albeit somewhat minor
echo briar
Ironically, the Harrow Court is probably the best one I've delt with
It's like kingmaker, but actually fun
barren cipher
2e kingmaker's kingdom system has drawn a lot of hate
turbid dagger
It seems wicked complex
And not very skippable
Unfortunately
trail nova
Also, 1e does have a genuinely engaging subsytem.
They can do it. Just not frequently it seems
silver geyser
I appreciate them trying.
trail nova
But WftC has a few book-specific ones that aren’t that bad, and a Persona system that is very meh and mostly ignorable until book 5, where it is key to a major (if weird) section
warped orbit
2e kingmaker's kingdom system has drawn a lot of hate
The balance is kinda off from what I heard
rapid wagon
i feel like the kingdom making works best when not too closely examined lol
im running horizons of hte vast in sf
currently
silver geyser
Yep, it works best when you do not approach it from an optimization standpoint.
heavy fulcrum
there are just so many ways to make huge buckets of cash
silver geyser
Which, you know. Land ownership and kingdom do tend to do that.
heavy fulcrum
well, its not that you can get rich
its that you can get rich extremely fast
and via silly means like "build a ton of farms so your kingdoms stats go through the roof"
turbid dagger
and via silly means like "build a ton of farms so your kingdoms stats go through...
Worked for Geb!
echo briar
Is Geb pronounced with a hard or soft G?
silver geyser
Honestly, farms are what make nations
As soon as farming becomes a problem, things go poorly
turbid dagger
Jokes aside, I get you
I can see it being a problem, especially if your letting the crew buy items over their level so long as they have the cheddar
But if your careful with that, I'd probably find a campaign where I just don't have to worry about money refreshing
We are constantly penny pinching in our games
surreal basin
My party finished the fucked up woods adventure!
warped orbit
Is Geb pronounced with a hard or soft G?
I pronounce it with a hard G personally
unborn rain
it's Geb, if it was Jeb it'd be spelled Jeb
surreal basin
It’s with a hard G
light gyro
it's Geb, if it was Jeb it'd be spelled Jeb
oh like jermany
unborn rain
oh like jermany
The reason that Germany has a soft G is because it's from Latin origins and the G is followed by an E. Which is a rule that most words follow in English.
Geb on the other hand, isn't of Latin origin. It's of fantasy Ancient Egyptian origin, I do not know enough about Egyptian etymology to say whether an Anglication of a word with a Soft G sound would favour the letter G or J.
But I do know, that if Paizo wanted it to be pronounced Jeb. They probably wouldve spelled it with a J rather than a G.
solar tendon
Jalt
limber comet
Ghost wizard called Frank
carmine egret
Desperately need a Geb edit of the Jeb! election map
eager mountain
Desperately need a Geb edit of the Jeb! election map
rustic cape
Please clap
silver geyser
carmine egret
👏
frank crystal
Holy shit it is
rustic cape
No Central Park, smh my head
sinful gyro
swim
strange nest
Tryna brainstorm how to do a dex liberator champ of Cayden Cailean
frank crystal
Could maybe grab a whip for a reach weapon
I know liberators don’t have a strike on their reaction but it’s still nice
silver geyser
Is Elven Branch Spear still finesse?
frank crystal
Is it?
strange nest
Cause I wanna use a rapier but I’m not sure how to use the free hand
frank crystal
If you don’t mind the lack of free hands, you could always grab a shield
Or maybe a dueling cape if you go for a bit of charisma
warped orbit
Is Elven Branch Spear still finesse?
yes
warped orbit
Cause I wanna use a rapier but I’m not sure how to use the free hand
pick up Duelist or Wrestler
but even without anything else, just Tripping or Grappling people is good
silver geyser
Good to know for the spear
warped orbit
Elven Branch Spear is a decent option for finesse, though it is 2h
Dancer's Spear as well
Bladed Scarf is also a fun 2h option
strange nest
Actually, martial artist stumbling stance Cayden champ would be quite thematic
Also got a bit of a synergy with smite evil
if your target attacks an ally smite gets prolonged, and if they attack you they’re flat-footed for your next strike
barren cipher
dex is tough, you really give up a lot for it
stumbling stance is good for getting your damage die back up but i think the combat lure is the answer
finesse, thrown, 1d6
you could also do light hammer and shield and just try to always throw it i guess
get returning from blade ally
frank crystal
Make an Arlong Park walk in Pathfinder
Like, as a vibe or the actual Arlong park?
limber comet
Like, as a vibe or the actual Arlong park?
As a vibe
frank crystal
Ah ok
limber comet
Looks at Chu Ye
fast hill
my player is making a skeleton gunslinger and I came to ask what would be some good archetypes for his free archetype?
barren cipher
sniping duo's a classic
frank crystal
I like marshal if he’s a pistolero
barren cipher
even though it says 'sniper' in it there are lots of benefits in regular combat
worthy stump
Rogue works pretty well too. maybe Unexpected Sharpshooter if it matches the vibes
barren cipher
it does somewhat depend on party comp, subclass and what niches are filled already
worthy stump
mhm, for sure
fast hill
sniper
frank crystal
Ah ok
thorny berry
firework technician: snipe with a pistol, dazzle people with Flower, and then hide from them 
or pistol + shield bastion Taking Cover behind a tower shield
fast hill
they went for rogue
barren cipher
skill points, a little extra damage and like dread striker?
that's gonna be pretty hard to beat on raw power
frank crystal
Dread striker on sniper is fucking insane lol
Just guaranteed fatal crits basically
It’s actually so funny how much damage you can get with it
barren cipher
i feel like a considerable amount of balance in ranged is that flat-footed is a pain to get
warped orbit
Generally yeah
Unless your allies set you up with Trips/Grapples
Sniper has Hide on the reload at least
turbid dagger
Oh dread striker is fascinating yeah
I'm a big fan of stab and blast
Because you get the ever elusive Circ To Hit
And you share map
So roll up on some frightened dude and 💀
solar tendon
sniping duo
solar tendon
general
it's a ranged weapon thing
with like reactions n such when a specific ally does things
solar tendon
yeah
barren cipher
if you have some fat guy who's going to be bodyblocking the monsters all the time it's really good to have
it also provides your buddy (and later you) with circumstance bonuses to hit, which are not very common at all
turbid dagger
In our kingmaker game my free hand fighter and another player's Flurry Ranger are doing Sniping Duo
And my fighter is doing Marshal 🥵
Not one attack missing on our watch
rapid wagon
deflecting shot has great flavor
has the same cool factor as that fighter feat about stabbing your sword into the ground to stop getting thrown away to me
shoot the guys incoming attack to save your buddy
can even deliver a one liner to go with it
warped orbit
Sniping Duo is really cool
the one feat that makes you give each other a reaction attack when you crit is also really good
turbid dagger
The flurry ranger also has a dog so once we get high level I can do Topple Foe with it
clever cobalt
What's a good non-class Free Archetype for a druid?
Non-class like, no Monk or whatever
warped orbit
ehh, Geomancer is an option I guess, though it's a bit complicated
warped orbit
which Order?
rapid wagon
wrestler druid sounds kinda sick tbh
not mechanically
but thematically
Swole ass druid in the middle of nature, wrestling beast and man alike
their grove also doubles as a wrestling ring
warped orbit
Acrobat is pretty generally useful
hmmm
Horizon Walker if you want to focus on wilderness traversal?
warped orbit
Blessed One as well for healing, depending on what your Order focus spell is
barren cipher
yeah blessed one just goes great on everyone pretty much
i feel like medic is generally better but it requires so much investment
barren cipher
well, wrestler does work
warped orbit
in that case Wrestler does work yeah
I believe most of the form attacks are unarmed attacks
frank crystal
medic stronk
My druid is a medic
barren cipher
yeah, you get pretty decent unarmed strikes as long as you keep up with your forms
defences leave a little to be desired though, from the little i've seen of it it's really important to remember that actually you are still a full caster and turning into a bear is just one tool in the box
fierce gulch
How would I build a monk with cleric archetype with free archetype and gradual ability progression rules?
frank crystal
Untamed Order
I thought it was called Wild
warped orbit
How would I build a monk with cleric archetype with free archetype and gradual a...
hmm
you can probably start with 12 Wis then, and put it up to 14 at level 2
frank crystal
How would I build a monk with cleric archetype with free archetype and gradual a...
Probably just play a monk but with divine spells for utility
Oh wait right stats
solar tendon
untamed is remaster I think
frank crystal
Actually do PF2E monks care about wisdom?
Like besides the generic stuff wisdom gives
warped orbit
a little, but not much
frank crystal
untamed is remaster I think
Ah ok
warped orbit
its mostly for Ki DC
fierce gulch
Yeah so would a temple blade monk also make a good ki monk
Because I don’t care about most stances?
And can thus spend feat on unlocking ki spells?
barren cipher
you still need monastic weaponry at 1st, don't you?
fierce gulch
Ye
barren cipher
honestly, powerful fist ain't even that bad
turbid dagger
Charlie wanted a 'blade monk' type char so I directed them towards temple sword monk
They're going for A Theme
barren cipher
makes sense
fierce gulch
Yah
warped orbit
let me try and mock something up on Pathbuilder real quick, to figure out the stat distro here
fierce gulch
This kind of char
Technically if I really wanna be a blade fighter I could archetype into duelist I guess
warped orbit
what ancestry and heritage are you again?
human duskwalker, or different ancestry?
turbid dagger
The former yeah
They did pretty good first session
Already have learned the 'drop sword as free action for maneuveurs' bit
rapid wagon
iirc they're kind of in line with unarmed monks with some specific options out of their kit, but otherwise a lot of their options are not as good
warped orbit
The former yeah
what background?
frank crystal
Sucks that weapon monks are kinda inferior to unarmed monks
I mean temple sword is actually one of the good ones
It’s not that weapon monks are necessarily bad
It’s just that like every monk weapon -a few are bad
warped orbit
and also just that stances are really good
frank crystal
Stuff like Bo staff monk is actually pretty solid
rapid wagon
iirc the stars of the monk show are bo staff and temple sword for example
warped orbit
stances have more budget than most weapons basically
rapid wagon
of course i would willingly use a worse monk weapon if the flavor works for me ultimately
and just kinda make it work
warped orbit
you're not gonna get a d8 agile finesse weapon generally
barren cipher
two actions a round is enough
fierce gulch
+dex +str for background I think
With dex as primary stat for class
So starting with 18 dex
16 str
And I think 12 wis?
warped orbit
this is probably how you'd start yeah
and then raise Wis to 14 at 2 if you want to go Cleric archetype
fierce gulch
Ye makes sense
I don’t quite understand what archetyping gets me is my second question
Like do I get to grab a cleric feat or what else do I get
barren cipher
some really light cleric stuff, it's not gonna be game changing for you
couple of cantrips, skill proficiency, some spell slots that are well behind the curve later
warped orbit
well at 2nd, for the dedication you basically just get skill training and some cantrips I think
turbid dagger
what background?
The one that lets em ask their deity for guidance once per adventure, but I let them take Str dex
barren cipher
if it were me i would think about blessed one instead
fierce gulch
What is once per adventure limitation btw
Is it like once per the entire campaign
Or once per expedition equivalent
(As in icon)
warped orbit
well at 2nd, for the dedication you basically just get skill training and some c...
and then at 4th, you can take basic spellcasting to get a 1st level slot
which scales up a bit as you increase in level
fierce gulch
I think my char is basically opposite of blessed though
warped orbit
but yeah if you go with those stats you should be set
tough perch
idk if someone mentioned it already or if it's not what you're looking for, but another way of going for the fantasy of a sword monk type is going fighter, then monk archetype for ki attacks and stuff like deflect arrows
warped orbit
and for class feats you probably go Monastic Weaponry, Ki Strike, Peafowl Stance
for the first four levels
barren cipher
yeah blessed one is something that you can have inflicted on you no problem
rapid wagon
wait can you do a dedication to oracle if you wanted to not be blessed?
barren cipher
at 4th it can actively hurt you if you like!
rapid wagon
cause oracles don't really get to choose being blessed at all right?
its just kinda inflicted on em and they have to figure it out
fierce gulch
Oh wait blessed one is an archetype?
barren cipher
yeah oracle is great for those times when you never asked for this, it's charisma though
yes
warped orbit
Blessed One basically gives you Lay on Hands
barren cipher
no prerequisites, just gives you lay on hands and protector's sacrifice focus spells and the champion's mercy line
turbid dagger
What is once per adventure limitation btw
Abomination Vaults was sold as 3 adventures originally
So you basically get to use it thrice
warped orbit
~~and Lay on Hands accessories ~~
barren cipher
it's quite good because it doesn't require any investment and it scales properly
fierce gulch
That could work
turbid dagger
Healing out the wazoo between you, our cleric, and our bard
fierce gulch
I could also just go the route that gods never answer her prayers no matter what she does and make her a duelist
turbid dagger
Duelist is neat
Would get you your AC while letting you choke more small, terrified creatures
barren cipher
that means you can also get to +4 to hit and AC sooner
fossil temple
Rolling the Grapple command to pet creatures instead when
rapid wagon
i also one day want to play an Aldori sword lord
which iirc theres an aldori duelist archetype that's slightly different to duelist right?
warped orbit
yes
Duelist is mostly better IMO, though Aldori Duelist has like one or two feats that are unique and pretty good
clever cobalt
you need proficiency in Dueling Swords to get the archetype though
it doesn't give you proficiency
rapid wagon
honestly i just vibe with like "The best swordspeople ever" and it not being a samurai is kinda cool
and wanting to explore that legacy as well
really hardcore living by the sword
barren cipher
they had to print a background to make aldori duelist feasible
rapid wagon
is it that popular in the pf community too?
barren cipher
rapid wagon
to like, call for that i guess?
fierce gulch
I just want to stab sword good
tough perch
so, my group decided to play abomination vaults and party composition is rogue, outwit ranger, barbarian, witch, and a thaumaturge(which is me)
how much are we going to suffer with 4 frontlines and a witch?
tough perch
i'm hoping the ranger is going to get medicine, the witch wants to go for the alchemy stuff
i can try to get medicine in but i'd have to sacrifice either athletics or a face skill
tough perch
or a point in constitution, but i've been designated the party's tank so i dont want that
smarter idea to get the rogue to medicinate
fierce gulch
Isn’t con usually the tanking stat
tough perch
yea, which is why i don't want to change it
the other thing i could do is go for chalice instead of amulet, but i think amulet is going to be more important
rapid wagon
i feel like con, at least to an extent, is the "its great on everyone stat"
tough perch
im going with this spread
turbid dagger
Ye no one says ew no to more con really
rapid wagon
doubly so for new people id wager "More health is going to help you weather the misplays that WILL happen"
barren cipher
you've got an outwit ranger and they're making you get punched in the face?
tough perch
i mean, the ranger can't really stop the enemy from hitting me in the face
and i don't really feel up to dealing with the action economy of exploit weakness + reloading, so i'll be frontlining too
barren cipher
i mean if they're saying 'you, the 8hp medium armour class, are the tank therefore we don't need to think about defences' then you're all gonna die yeah
tough perch
i'm the tank in the sense that i'm the defender
i assume that if we ever have the oportunity of choosing who will take damage, we're picking the barbarian
barren cipher
like amulet or bell implement?
fierce gulch
My duskwalker char is calling everyone a “child” due to having memories of her past life despite her only being like
15-18
tough perch
that sounds fun
fierce gulch
Shockingly nobody ever challenges her on it
tough perch
if you say it with enough conviction, nobody will
fierce gulch
She does give off an elderly curmudgeon vibe
turbid dagger
Y'know now that I think about it thaumaturge would also suit snow really well
tough perch
it's a class from dark archives
turbid dagger
Esoteric wise warrior that knows the hidden secrets of reality
And mostly uses them to stab dudes better
tough perch
it's a specialist martial, the gimmick is that they can exploit creatures weaknesses or give them a small one
also has implements, which are kinda like a subclass but you pick 2 extra ones later
it's got a ton of utility
tough perch
and can be built for a variety of roles
rapid wagon
i really like their flavor of being hte "i have a bag of tricks and i pull the right one for the job" shtick
but i hate how its just for damage
and mostly just for themselves
effectively "I have this bag of one trick actually"
tough perch
there's some feats to enable that fantasy for more things
like scroll thaumaturgy and talisman esoterica
of course you won't have a trick for every situation but it does give you a few extra tricks for the bag
turbid dagger
Yeah thaums feats are almost entirely about expanding said bag
There's very few conventional martial metastrikes
surreal basin
should summoned zombies only get 1 action when they're given their minion actions?
because of the slowed?
turbid dagger
I would say they get two
The actions you give are different from start of turn actions
worthy stump
i believe Paizo clarified in an FAQ that Slow and Quickened apply normally to minions
lemme go dig it up
Yes. This can be a bit unclear because those conditions apply “at the start of your turn” and a minion can’t typically act until you use an action. Apply these conditions and any other effects that alter a minion’s number of actions when the minion gains its actions, using 2 actions and 0 reactions as the minion’s starting number. Though a minion can’t normally act when it’s not your turn, abilities that specifically grant a minion a reaction provide an exception to this (such as the Ferocious Beasts orc ancestry feat, Advanced Players Guide page 19).```so yeah, zombies are pretty bad minions, their only saving grace is that they can meatshield pretty well vs. non-slashing damage
worthy stump
on the bright side, that means if the friendly wizard hits your companion as part of a 7th level haste, you're getting 3 actions from commanding it
solar tendon
mhm
crystal walrus
Crafted a longsword for starfinder
Tear of the Redeemer Queen
Source The Goddess Above
Level 11; Price 25000CR or 8750CR from Item Level 10.
Hands 2; Proficiency Advanced Melee
Damage 3d12; Range -; Critical Improved (Stunned)
Capacity -; Usage -
Bulk 2; Special Two Handed, Reliable(6), Trip, Boost (2d6)
wary yoke
fierce gulch
Is there a magic marksman class in pathfinder
solar storm
Closest in PF2 is probably the ranged Magus subclass
turbid dagger
Yeah you'd be looking at Starlit Span Magus
Though there's also the Eldritch Archer archetype that can work for anyone capable of shooting a bow
thorny berry
There's also spellshot gunslinger though people aren't generally too hot on it
turbid dagger
Yeah
Mainly because it does not actually do much magic?
Its more magic themed iirc
Like you aren't casting spells your Striking with a gun thats doing an additional 2 electricity
thorny berry
yeah the unique way stuff is generally, like, Fine
turbid dagger
Okay I think I actually like Spellshot upon reading it more deeply
(This is once per day but 🥵 )
warped orbit
The awkwardness of Spellshot is mostly that its a class archetype
If it was just regular Way it'd be fine probably?
solar tendon
my biggest peeve with it is that the feat it makes you take doesn't work with slinger's reload
cause like. conjure bullet is 90% of the time just gonna be a flavour thing
but there's basically no reason to ever use it because one of the gunslingers main things is slinger's reload
Kinda feels like conjure bullet should just be part of the slinger's reload
and then call gun becomes the level 2 feat
turbid dagger
Oh neat
I just realized that remaster Armor Prof gives limited scaling
Equivalent to bard's light armor scaling tho which is what I need
surreal basin
It made more sense when you could like
Be unable to recall knowledge anymore
Pre remaster
Because failing used to mean you couldn’t try again
So if you failed a bunch the slingers reload kinda stopped doing anything
strange nest
Because failing used to mean you couldn’t try again
Oh, I didn’t realize they changed that!
Man I can’t wait for the remaster stuff to come to AoN
delicate ridge
Hey, curiosity question for PF2e GMs. I really don't enjoy buildcrafting and the way PF2e doles out character advancement through feats, specifically as a player. As a GM, do you engage with that at all?
warped orbit
Not really
NPCs don't have feats at all
It's just numbers according to level with some adjustments if necessary, and then whatever features you want them to have
If you even make your own monsters. If you just use the bestiaries then that's obviously even easier
frank crystal
Yah NPCs just have what they have on their sheets
light gyro
simply consult the sacred texts the tables
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=995
frank crystal
They generally get more complicated as they get higher level but that’s just a consequence of the players being stronger
So the NPCs in turn need to be stronger
But if you wanted to you could give that level -1 zombie all the abilities in the world
clever cobalt
Is it God death day
warped orbit
probably at some point today, yeah
delicate ridge
I like complicated creatures, I just hate buildcrafting
frank crystal
You can still reload a ranged weapon while grappling someone right?
warped orbit
generally not, since to reload a weapon you need to hold that weapon and have a hand free
unless it has capacity
solar tendon
but nothing inherent to grapple other than it requiring a hand by default
frank crystal
Hmm, yah then I’d probably say it doesn’t
solar tendon
but like a gnoll that iirc can grapple with it's mouth
warped orbit
unless the Grappler has a way to do it hands free, yeah
clever cobalt
Apperantly the dead god this week starts with a vowel
Abadar
Erastil
Iomedae
Irori
Urgathoa
rustic cape
Nethys and Rovagug still in the running XD
limber comet
Urgathoa dies and all the undead get pompei baby'd
rapid wagon
iomedae dies, needs another successor
limber comet
Not again damnit
barren cipher
curse of aroden be upon ye
surreal basin
please god it'd be so funny
clever cobalt
Also
Apperantly we're not only getting dead gods and the order shifted around
But we're also getting new gods
clever cobalt
Well the dead God's positions need to be filled
And domains
👀
https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Mahja_Firehair it's all coming together
clever cobalt
Golarion or elsehwre?
surreal basin
they're level 3 which is a hard level to work with a little
my own setting
but... i won't say similar to golarion but
most of the stuff that can be fit into golarion can work
limber comet
Uhh
frozen hatch
Why is it that every time I sit down and try to work on developing npcs for my campaign I inevitably instead just focus on world building instead? Like brain I need to work on npcs so can we please stop trying to expand the Lore?
limber comet
they're level 3 which is a hard level to work with a little
There's some lower level stat blocks from Season of Ghosts that could be interesting to base an arc around
surreal basin
oh true
limber comet
I like the new fiends introduced, so I'd recommend those
I'm not gonna elaborate, due to spoilers
But they're cool :]
surreal basin
sadly not on nethys so i haven't looked too deep at the stuff from the new books sog books but the first one was reaaaaaaaaaaaaally
good
limber comet
I'm not gonna elaborate, due to spoilers
Bwa
clever cobalt
Just putting it out there
strange nest
Is it God death day
I’m a bit out of the loop here
clever cobalt
I’m a bit out of the loop here
Every Wednesday a god dies
rustic cape
I’m a bit out of the loop here
There’s an upcoming AP where one core god will die
barren cipher
well, they don't actually but
clever cobalt
And we get a story about how they died and the consequences of it
strange nest
oh damn
rustic cape
They’re announcing which ones aren’t gonna die week by week
strange nest
where would i go for more details
clever cobalt
By killing them
rustic cape
Paizo blog
clever cobalt
(In non-canon scenarios)
rustic cape
But yeah with each announcement is a “what if” thing
Related to the god who’s not dying
Pharasma, Asmodeus, and … iirc Cayden? Are out
warped orbit
yeah
clever cobalt
Yeah
solar tendon
no one is dead so far
exactly one Core god is dying
but they're revealing which Core gods are not that one
fierce gulch
Who’s not dying
solar tendon
pharasma asmodeus and cayden
fierce gulch
If a god dies can I have their stuff
solar tendon
yeah just play an exemplar
you get a crumb of divinity to do whatever you want with
barren cipher
why not
surreal basin
hmmm
fierce gulch
So multiple gods are dying yeah?
barren cipher
i did a curse wizard’s mansion where he was caught up in his research and hadn’t noticed that reality was collapsing around him
surreal basin
i did a curse wizard’s mansion where he was caught up in his research and hadn’t...
basically same
barren cipher
faeries invading, animated tools gained sentience and formed a gang, etc
surreal basin
We just did the intro quest which was a horrible flesh amalgam infecting local wildlife with super rabies
so i gotta follow that up with a change of pace
not sure if "weird shit comes out of the woods again" is too similar though as an inciting incident
looks at will o wisp
oh that seems cool- they're immune to WHAT
(they're immune to magic. all magic, full stop. magic is just listed in their immunities)
solar tendon
yup
surreal basin
that's fucking bananas
solar tendon
conjuration mostly got around it historically but idk how that works now
warped orbit
except for Magic Missile and like two other specific things
Magic Immunity A will-o’-wisp is immune to all spells except faerie fire, glitterdust, magic missile, and maze.
surreal basin
wild
solar tendon
they used to also be precision immune haha
warped orbit
Maze being on that list is kinda weird, but oh well
unborn rain
Precision immunity is so mean
warped orbit
they don't have that anymore thankfully
surreal basin
yeah
warped orbit
though they do have basically at-will invisibility
surreal basin
i have thoughts on magic and precision immunity lol
silver geyser
Welcome to Will-o-Wisps, one of the worst monsters to fight until you get used to them.
solar tendon
a lot of spells did work because like being immune to magic is all well and good but if the other person just summons regular fire and then throws it at you you're not immune to fire
silver geyser
What was horrible in 1e was their AC
surreal basin
something i did in EC when they showed up was just trip them so they fell into the quicksand they were floating over
so we just didn't need to fight them legit
solar tendon
I think they used to be able to cast shield to avoid magic missile too, but that might just be kingmaker giving them spellcaster levels
unborn rain
Fighting Willo-wisps in the kingmaker Game was such a massive chore
silver geyser
That's some with caster levels, which does show up in Kingmaker.
surreal basin
throwing another idea for level 3 adventure:
it's the dead of winter in a farming village
so there are very understandably bored kids
they go to a local shrine just outside of town and fuck around in it, end up unsealing a relic with a malicious spirit attached to it
silver geyser
Nothing like AC 26 on a CR 6 creature over in 1e.
unborn rain
Level 3 adventure, It is Winter. Succesfully ration grain for Months until the summer