Pathfinder

[rustic cape]

And they will work for my purposes

[limber comet]

The second player core cover goes so hard

I am gonna miss the sea serpent but good lord man

Seoni, Fumbus, AND Jirelle? Goes crazy

It is a bit sad that Korakai isn't on the cover

[clever cobalt]

Has the Seven Dooms for Sandpoint Player's Guide come out yet?

also, regarding Curtiain Call:

[limber comet]

No

[clever cobalt]

Ah, got it

just wanted to check

[limber comet]

Not yet anyways

Curtain Call is intriguing

It's cool we're getting more 11-20 stuff

[clever cobalt]

Yep! And this one seems especialyl approrate to tac onto a 1-10 campaign (for obvious reasons)

[limber comet]

Yaa!

Is Wildwood 1-10

[clever cobalt]

5-15

[limber comet]

Oooh okay

I was gonna say, it'd be funny if you went from being a druid to being a playwright

[clever cobalt]

Still possible

but you can go from CAveman to Playwright

(Quest for the Frozen Flame is 1-10)

[limber comet]

Heheh yeah

[silver geyser]

Gatwalker to Playwright is quite possibly the funniest contrast.

[clever cobalt]

How so?

I find Caveman to Playwright the funniest, personally

[silver geyser]

On account of Gatewalkers being high level concept with low levels.

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[silver geyser]

To High Levels doing a low level concept.

[clever cobalt]

Which is actually fitting to turn into an Opera, thinking about it

Yeah

Also, question

How does the Remaster Druid look?

[limber comet]

Like a druid pfft

Not much changed iirc

[clever cobalt]

I'm debating playing my Duskwalker Fleshwarp Shapeshifting Druid again, but I'm not 100% sure what's changed

Got it!

[limber comet]

It's more minor errata as opposed to Witch and Wizard

[clever cobalt]

I'm glad Druids got some good primal spells in Rage of Elements

[silver geyser]

Druid is just nice and simple at its core.

[clever cobalt]

and presumably are gonna get some fun stuff in HotW

[limber comet]

Howl is gonna be super cool

[clever cobalt]

Doesn't it come out next month as well?

[limber comet]

Nah

May

[clever cobalt]

Huh, thought it was March

[limber comet]

My birthday month

[clever cobalt]

Fair enough

[limber comet]

Nah, that's the remaster bestiary

[clever cobalt]

It looks to be uh

Sandpoint > Wildwood > Curtain Call > War of Immortals

I know WoI isn't an AP

[limber comet]

Ya I gotcha

It's coming with one

[clever cobalt]

But I wouldn't be surprised if the book dropped alongside an appropriate AP

Yeag

[limber comet]

https://twitter.com/paizo/status/1753524463440679278?t=JLjya3pfQ3-iwVSMxmXp6g&s=19

Paizo (@paizo) on X

It's all a conspiracy! Pathfinder Creative Director Luis Loza gives us an inside look at the new Conspirator Dragon in this week's blog!
https://t.co/OwpsIuMDDH
#Pathfinder #TTRPGs

Twitter · Feb 2, 2024, 9:03 PM

I'm sure this has already been shared but

I really like this design

[turbid dagger]

All I can think of is the dragon doing a big muda muda with its arms and its overbuilt wing-arms

[limber comet]

Okay but

Look at the top of it's head

[turbid dagger]

Yes its got A Fake Face
Basilisk Hours

[limber comet]

It's so cool UGH!!!

[solar storm]

Why does it have a fake face on the top of its head?

To scare off Rocs?

[limber comet]

Okay so

Conspirator Dragons can scrunch down into a human form

And then cause it to explode in viscera if threatened

[turbid dagger]

Do dragons not have Change Shape by default anymore
I honestly assumed it was just Occult Magic Weirdness

[limber comet]

Hold on let me snag the blog post blurb about it

A conspirator dragon has a variety of abilities to help them achieve their goals. In addition to using their magic to charm and influence others, these dragons make use of magical disguises. They conjure forth flesh-suit replicas of others and, through the help of magic, squeeze themselves into these suits. This bone-crunching and flesh rending process results in perfect disguises that allow a conspirator dragon to live among populations none the wiser to the dragon’s machinations. If they’re ever found out, the dragon can erupt from the suit in an explosive display that hopefully buys them enough time to flee. If not, they also use their choking breath to create a literal smokescreen for escape.

[limber comet]

I mean it would be weird if the bulky Adamantine dragon could just assume a humanoid form

At least to me

[turbid dagger]

Dragons have always been able to do that

[limber comet]

I knooooow

But maybe they're changing it?

[silver geyser]

Not all dragons could inherently do it back in 1e, but they did have caster levels and it's relatively easy to polymorph.

[turbid dagger]

Hmmmmm
I'm not against that necessarily
Though that campaign I've been working on DOES have a plot beat that relies on a dragon posing as a human

[clever cobalt]

Adamantine Dragons apperently can't cast spells

[limber comet]

I mean it kinda tracks

[turbid dagger]

(A Sovereign Dragon from Tian Xia, so it wouldn't be as easy as 'make it a conspirator')

[limber comet]

All of these new dragons seem to be based on folklore aspects

Oh! Sovereign dragons still exist in canon

You're good

I think chromatic and metallic still exist too, but maybe not

Thanks, Wizards

[turbid dagger]

Nice
Its set in the Realm Of The Mammoth Lords, and a key NPC in my current outline is a Young Sovereign Dragon who lives publicly as the human Po La, mayor of Icestair, the biggest static settlement in the area

[limber comet]

Ya! You should still be good to go

[unborn rain]

if you were going about trying to make a Zamburak for a pathfinder character, how would you do it?

Like what would be the best thing to represent a gun mounted on a mount

[clever cobalt]

Aren't their siege engine rules or something in PF2e?

Aka stationary weapons

[limber comet]

Guns and gears would be a good place to start ya

[solar tendon]

any kickback gun

with a saddle mount

[worthy stump]

Something like a backpack ballista or catapult?

[solar tendon]

lol

[worthy stump]

Those are actual PF2 weapons

Because Paizo likes to get funky

[solar tendon]

if you go gunslinger sniper can work cause you can take cover on a mount

gunner's saddle is the proper name

[turbid dagger]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Uhhhhh
Backpack Ballista whilst riding a camel I guesssssssssssss?
But yeah 'mobile light artillery' is not particularly PF2e's wheelhouse
If you just want to ride around and shoot gun thats less complex and honestly probably pretty effective

[warped orbit]

There are yes

[turbid dagger]

Sniper slinger, arquebus, gunners saddle, maybe Cavalier archetype

Cavalier's Charge gets you +1 circ to hit which is Ominous with a Gunslinger

[warped orbit]

Cavalier is pretty legit for a lot of ranged characters tbh

A mount is basically free movement once you get mature

[turbid dagger]

Yeah
Circ to hit is really rare and the free movement helps a lot with kiting

[clever cobalt]

Cowboy time

[turbid dagger]

Ugghhhhhhhhhhh
Im so frustrated
It seems like no one else on the internet has had my issue with trying to get Abomination Vaults installed on Foundry

[true delta]

I've got an oft-asked question: If I wanna run a pre-remaster adventure such as Little Trouble in Big Absalom, how broken would it be to do so with the pregens form the adventure but the new general rules? Should I perhaps go over the player characters to update anything that's changed? The latter sounds kinda smart to me.

[turbid dagger]

Giving them a lookover is wise, stuff is broadly the same though
The main thing to watch out for is mention of good and evil damage, and then classes that are in PC1

In general its gonna be possible to get a build thats equivalent to pre remaster, its just a question of finding which rename lines up with the spell you are looking for

[worthy stump]

Might take a little bit of work depending on feats and abilities the pregens have, yeah, but nothing too drastic

[true delta]

Nice. Yeah, it may help me learn the specifics in the game to look it over. Thanks.

There aren't any post-remaster adventures yet, right? Short stuff, I mean.

[solar tendon]

theres a few

night of gray death? I wanna say? in galt

[turbid dagger]

Isn't night of the gray death old old

I'm honestly unsure when the last non AP adventure was

We've got Sky Kings Tomb and Season Of Ghosts, I think they use remaster language

But they are APs

Seems the last Standalone was Rusthenge, in Feb 2023
So almost a year ago

At least if Paizo's fucked up storefront can be trusted

[unborn rain]

Night of Gray death is a few years old now

[limber comet]

I've been rereading Percy Jackson and grinding Hades

I wanna kinda

Make a classic greek setting for pf2e

Not just like a slice of Golarion

But a full place

[clever cobalt]

Hmm

Outlaws of Alkenstar, or Abomination Vaults

[limber comet]

Abomination Vaults

Ez

[clever cobalt]

why?

[limber comet]

It's one of the best 2e adventure paths imho

It's a classic megadungeon but executed in a fun way

[turbid dagger]

It's also got a module! That may work!

[turbid dagger]

Huh
I just learned that the guy who did the dragon arts did them for all stages of growth, not just one
And nethys just uses the Adult version of the dragon art for all three versions for some reason

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8e3Zgq

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8e3lAm

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/B1qqem

[frank crystal]

Oh what are imperial dragons?

[heavy fulcrum]

the chinese/asian dragons

[sinful gyro]

Aren't these reflavours of the old dnd dragons?

[frank crystal]

Oh I meant like in terms of magic

Because the new dragons are 2 for each school

[heavy fulcrum]

not sure, they havent updated them yet

they might not, since the imperials are a PF original

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[turbid dagger]

Imperials are PF originals yeah, and older than the remaster
I just posted them cuz I've been researching them recently
But there are spreads like this for all the dragons on his artstation
Wanna know what an ancient copper dragon looks like? Young white? Its all there

[frank crystal]

Oh neat

[heavy fulcrum]

yeah, even the bestiaries dont include all the art because it takes up a lot of space

(which is why AoN uses the same image for all the ages, because thats whats in the book)

[clever cobalt]

Do we know what Kelesh is like in 2e?

[turbid dagger]

I was specifically looking for the Young Sovereign Dragon
Just a little guy
Garter snake energy
His beard hasn't even grown out yet

[clever cobalt]

or rather

Vudra

[heavy fulcrum]

not yet

actually sorry yes

Vudra (and surrounding area) got covered in Impossible Lands, back in Nov 2022

2E but pre-remaster

i was thinking of the Tian Xia remaster books which arent until April and August

[clever cobalt]

Oh did they? Don't recall Vudra there, only Jalmery

Also, does Casmaron have a higher connection to the Dark Tapestry or something? Cause it seems like a lot of Abberations are in the area, especially ones connected to the DT

[night mirage]

Hello Pathfinder-heads, my friends and I are resurrecting our homebrew-setting actual play campaign from a few years back, putting up the first season on a bespoke podcast feed ahead of time to build hype for season 2. If anybody's into dark fantasy settings, the first ep went up today: https://twitter.com/sunlessreach/status/1753887771649888589

Sagas of the Sunless Reach (@sunlessreach) on X

LET THE LEGEND RETURN TO LIFE! Sagas of the Sunless Reach is BACK in a brand-new bespoke podcast feed! Jump in to hear our original pilot, DISHONORED GUESTS, as our party takes their first steps into Tarandaur! Link below!

Twitter · Feb 3, 2024, 9:06 PM

[clever cobalt]

Rad

[frank crystal]

What are some good Druid NPCs?

So animal companions have the same death system as PCs?

[barren cipher]

yes

[surreal basin]

Ye

[frank crystal]

Ok sick

[heavy fulcrum]

yeah

Player characters, their companions, and other significant characters and creatures don’t automatically die when they reach 0 Hit Points. Instead, they are knocked out and are at risk of death. At the GM’s discretion, villains, powerful monsters, special NPCs, and enemies with special abilities that are likely to bring them back to the fight (like ferocity, regeneration, or healing magic) can use these rules as well.

[frank crystal]

Ok so one of my players has pitched a very cool character

A wizard bard necromancer who’s using their magic to call upon the spirits of their dead family who’s king tradition of Drake wrestling has been being covered up

[rapid wagon]

Hmm if I want to change roles in my party on this upcoming campaign from my metal kineticist to a magus or a monk what do I need to know about how my role is changing?

Magus would be to ensure we have someone knowledgeable about magic

Monk would be mostly for a more interesting narrative

Was gonna make up a geb based monastery of monks that mummify their most promising students alive, to let them train for eternity. It's seen as an honor

Then I get mummy monk!

[rapid wagon]

Also if I'm making an evil monk who revels in dominance, which stance really feels like a bully stance

I'm thinking dragon or gorilla

Maybe stoked flame

[worthy stump]

gorilla or dragon seem the most fitting right off the bat, yeah

since they both have intimidation-based feats later too

[frank crystal]

Hmm, are there any really good stuff for wizards in the bard archetype?

Besides just occult spells?

[warped orbit]

well, the cantrips

composition cantrips are huge, though it takes a while until you can get those

[frank crystal]

Oh yah

[turbid dagger]

We don't have a lot on how Sanctified interacts with things at the moment, right? Gotta wait for monster core to see how its implemented?
I'm doing a Champion of Skode for a oneshot (into Abomvaults!!!!!!!), and I notice that Weapon Surge does spirit damage and is Sanctified now
Like, should we assume that Devils or something will proc their Good Weakness from such an attack?

[warped orbit]

pretty much, yeah

a lot of what used to be good/evil damage is now spirit damage that only harms unholy/holy

[turbid dagger]

I will consult with my GM further
Real talk we're starting with Dinner At Lionlodge, then doing new chars for abom vaults
And everyone instantly noticed that the Adventure's name had horns over it
And that the page numbers in the pregen sheets are contained inside pentagrams
So
I feel their ruling on Sanctified stuff is going to be important

[warped orbit]

Champion also actually got some errata already as well, if you hadn't seen that yet

but for fiends, my assumption will be that their previous good weakness will now be a holy weakness, yeah

and their evil damage likewise will be spirit damage with the unholy tag, and may potentially only hurt holy sanctified beings

[turbid dagger]

Oh? Anywhere you can direct me too?

[warped orbit]

https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

under the Core Rulebook Errata (Remaster Compatibility)

[turbid dagger]

Also are we sure sanctified and unholy retain the 'only hurts baddies/goodies' thing
Because a lot of the spells in Player Core 1 that used to be alignment oriented now just do damage to 'people opposed to your deities goals'
(Read: Enemies)

[warped orbit]

not always

it's a bit inconsistent

for some things, it just always deals spirit and has the tag
but for some it only deals the damage if the target is of opposing sanctification

[turbid dagger]

I see
The curse of alignment damage remains..............................................

On the upside, my GM just confirmed that if we encountered any Unspecified Horn Pentagram Individuals then Sanctified Spirit Damage would likely work yeah

[solar tendon]

the advantage mainly is now only ppl who actually signed up for the war of good and evil are considered either

[sinful gyro]

So similar to pf2e god dying

Sf2e is going to blow up a planet apparently

It's ||Aucturn||

[worthy stump]

Indeed. It seems like ||the egg is hatching in the first adventure||

[frank crystal]

Hmm, other then the obvious animate the dead stuff

Any really good niches for necromancy spells?

(Even as they’re not technically a thing anymore)

[solar tendon]

looking like our OoA team is gonna be dragon barbarian // monk archetype; construct inventor // unexpected sharpshooter; triggerbrand gunslinger // duelist

uhhh. dunno our plan for healing tho lol

could swap built in tools for searing restoration

[barren cipher]

in-combat healing is for people who don't have enough damage

[solar tendon]

too true

[warped orbit]

would probably be good for out of combat healing

[eager mountain]

pssstt hey

are you the gm ?

[unborn rain]

Penny's a player

I am also a Player in it

[eager mountain]

i see

[turbid dagger]

I've finally gotten abomvaults to work on foundry 😭
Turns out it was a backend oracle issue, had to bust out the powershell, on the advice of some folks on the foundry discord

[sinful gyro]

They're great over there

There's a foundry pf2e discord to

Unless thatz the one you meant

[turbid dagger]

Thisun

[sleek moon]

hello. i have very recently gotten into pathfinder. this is all i have to say

[unborn rain]

Some one had to say it

[paper juniper]

currently in pathfinder: the gang attempts to get a nether portal working

[frank crystal]

Did they use crying obsidian instead?

[sinful gyro]

Whirp

[eager mountain]

Whirp

[frank crystal]

Whirp

[silver geyser]

Whirp

[clever cobalt]

Whirp

[light gyro]

Whirp

[turbid dagger]

I'm sorry to break the Whirp streak but I need to gush about something
Oh my god the Abomination Vaults module is FUCKING INSANE
Its just????? Everything???? Ready and placed???? With notes for every individual room????????????????????

[silver geyser]

Yep!

[turbid dagger]

I could start running this shit like tomorrow
Nuts

[warped orbit]

it's great, yeah

did you see the playlists yet?

[turbid dagger]

Playlists? Does it come with music?

[warped orbit]

yeah

[turbid dagger]

Neat! Music has never been an aspect I explored much but thats cool

[clever cobalt]

Yeah I've heard great things about the AV module

[warped orbit]

some of the maps also have map tiles you can change

like on the first floor the drawbridge can be collapsed

[solar storm]

It's super capable yeah

It's sometimes annoying to find some module details for pacing just from how the journal entries are laid out but that's it for complaints from me

[turbid dagger]

I imagine pacing is already a thorny issue in a megadungeon with relatively few hard progress locks
Like there's the ||barrier thingy|| but other than that its just 'find those stairs mfer'

Some of the later APs have their own modules too, yeah? Are they as robust as this?

Like I know for the early stuff you need the PDF convertor

[warped orbit]

from what I've heard, yeah

[warped orbit]

I will also say, diving down early can be dangerous depending on what you meet
some of those encounters do not mess around

so it's generally still a good idea to take the floors in order

[solar storm]

the official ones are similarly high quality

But yeah skipping stuff in AV is pretty doable but also its a true megadungeon, the lower floors will consume the unwary

[eager mountain]

Yeah the p2e modules are great

[eager mountain]

Listen to “ get beaked”

https://youtu.be/KoWeF--uGHM?si=TzwIN5rJuvDD8a38

It goes hard

[eager mountain]

Yes

But yeah the foundry modules are good for p2e

[stuck bane]

Once my abomination vaults game wraps one of the players is gonna run Outlaws of Alkenstar (and then we’ll swap between that and me running stolen fate for the AV party). So I’m finally gonna get to be a player

They’re being generous, letting me do an aasimar automaton for my construct inventor

[turbid dagger]

Nice! That AP seems fun

[surreal basin]

The gatewalkers AP has a token for a hydra where the heads on the token get cut off as it loses heads in the fight

For the module

[stuck bane]

Yeah the villains you pick at the start to tie to your backstory seem like fun to square off with

[turbid dagger]

I'm gonna be a player in an abomvaults game myself soon
And as mentioned earlier am also prepping to GM it lol
(My GM has been informed of this)
I'm trying to find out if my ideas for a character are too extreme/too main character-y
Right now I'm thinking a Created Fleshwarp Spirit or Animal Barbarian with the Zombie dedication that's ||an amnesiac, escaped personal project of Jafaki, an intelligent flesh golem formed from the body parts of fleshwarped monsters infused with necromantic energy, combining his three approaches to the 'perfect warrior' of fleshwarping, necromancy, and golem crafting||
They woke up in the middle of the woods covered in swamp mud, and after some time wandering aimlessly Wrin Sivinxi was fortunately the first person they stumbled across, as the latter was out stargazing
They've been sneaking into town at night to hang out with them ever since

I've got a more restrained character idea that's a Catfolk Thaumaturge
They used to be a trader from Tian Xia until their boat shipwrecked on its way to Absalom, due to the shining light of a mysterious lighthouse that wasn't on any maps
And they've been trying to find the lighthouse and the reason it was shining that night ever since

[sinful gyro]

The foundry modules are nuts

Like yes, little pricy

But its literally hours of work you'd of had to of done gone

And reallty high quality

[turbid dagger]

Update: The GM has approved the crazyass fleshwarp concept
Hallelujah

[warped orbit]

nice

[turbid dagger]

Also just learned there's an abom vaults NPC with a unique monk stance
Fucked up

[warped orbit]

oh yeah that is unique I suppose

I remember that NPC

[turbid dagger]

I want ||Red Ruin|| 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[warped orbit]

could be neat honestly

though I don't know the details of it

maybe if it was tied to a specific version of handwraps or something

treat it like a specific magic item

[turbid dagger]

D10 finesse sweep, with its specific bonus being 'when you would reduce frightened by 1, instead set it to 0'
So uh
Strong

Also genuinely the only statblock I can recall that breaks the finesse damage cap

[warped orbit]

we had a pretty strange way of dealing with that area, but the NPC seemed scary

||we got those two fighting, but then our Barbarian discovered the prisoners and we got into a fight with the whole bar anyway||

[turbid dagger]

I'm paralyzed by whether I want to do Animal Instinct or Spirit Instinct
I want to do Unarmed and obviously Animal is a shoe in for that
But I feel like Spirit's stuff will be REALLY useful for Abom Vaults

And its probably more narratively fitting

There's really not a good way to get a good unarmed attack with the spirit version of this char though, at least not for a while
Fleshwarps ancestry attacks suck, tho worst case I could probably make the d6 nonagile options WORK
And Zombie gives the d8 jaw strike but it only works in a grapple

(Barbarian+ handily solves this by having a feat that makes your fists d8 twohand d10, but I've already asked for a zombie fleshwarp character and am spoiled on the module I am on THIN ICE)

[warped orbit]

Spirit has come in pretty handy for our group

there's a good number of ghosts and other incorporeals, so innate ghosttouch can do work

[surreal basin]

Most Incorp guys also have pretty terrible HP so I imagine Barb rips through them nicely

[true delta]

I would always choose Giant Instinct, for the Dark Souls strength build vibes.

[paper juniper]

thought experiment
how would you put an adaptation power on a creature or pc

[unborn rain]

creature, probably give it a like ticking up resistance against damage its already taken

Which is like a natural focus towards the pcs having varied damage or like big hits rather than just lots of smaller attacks

[fossil temple]

It's ever said what kind of metal the Automaton (playable) are made of?

[unborn rain]

There's nothing in their like 2nd edition ancestry description but there's possibly something elsewhere

[fossil temple]

Nor the wiki
"Steel" it is

reason: Automaton character + Mechanicus copypasta

[eager mountain]

id assume whatever metal your armor is made of

[fossil temple]

Plasteel it is /j

[fossil temple]

Finally, monster energy drink for everyone

[fossil temple]

Does Compel True Name give you the creature true name or you need to know beforehand?

[barren cipher]

you need it beforehand

1 creature whose true name you know

i think that the best thing to do with the true name mechanics is ignore them

they are not narratively or mechanically satisfying

compel true name has incap, for crying out loud - if you have to compel them and they're your level or below you can just put them in a headlock or something

[silver geyser]

Or just tell them to die

[turbid dagger]

Those weird fey feats feel like a weird scam yeah

[surreal basin]

I mean the fey ancestry feats are good to decent

It’s just the true name stuff

[frank crystal]

So like how possible do y’all think it would be to run a sorta, MMO style raid boss in PF2E?

Where the boss kinda sets up its own outs to their abilities

Like a boss has a big AOE extending from themselves

But also sets up walls which the AOE can’t go through

[surreal basin]

That’d be cool, although he’ll need other stuff going on too since telegraphed AOEs on their own won’t be hard to avoid

[frank crystal]

Yah that was just my first idea

I’m gonna include more

[fossil temple]

dang, well thanks

[surreal basin]

Iiiii

gotta design a bunch of paaridars

for wednesday

[turbid dagger]

Mechanically or art wise
Because those both sound tough

[frank crystal]

What are paaridars?

[turbid dagger]

Monk wants to get stronger faster so they chain some shit like a manticore or chimera to the back of a cave, suck up its ki, and becomes a chimera-monk hybrid
While the monster gets all withered and immobile, but still alive

[frank crystal]

Oh that’s pretty rad

[clever cobalt]

Paaridar feats when

[turbid dagger]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1259

This is the only one in a bestiary, for a manticore

[frank crystal]

What does limited flight mean?

[turbid dagger]

It says what it means in its ability block, just below the stats

[frank crystal]

Ah

Didn’t see that part

[surreal basin]

I have a mantis paaridar, a wraith paaridar, and I'm gonna make tiger and shark

but the idea is the place they're going to like

[frank crystal]

Please give the shark one just a massive shark head

[surreal basin]

made weirder and weirder paaridars that fucked with chakras more and more

cause they're doing a quest for their paaridar companion who was transformed here by their father

[turbid dagger]

Wraith sounds interesting
Both because its a living being infused with negative energy and because wraiths are intangible

[surreal basin]

and its gonna end with their father's masterpiece, the technique for absorbing an outsiders essence and infusing your chakra with it

then he's going to present an astradaemon to her and tell her to complete her destiny

and that's like the big decision point

[frank crystal]

Hey positive and negative damage weren’t changed in the remaster right?

One of my players is playing a psychopomp summoner and I wanna know if what I see on AON and foundry will be any different

[turbid dagger]

Its called Vitality and Void now but otherwise it hasn't changed much

[frank crystal]

Ok great

So then the actual mechanics will be the same

And anything weak to positive will still be weak to it

[surreal basin]

Also gotta

figure out what I wanna have the

failed paaridars turn into

the ones who had their chakras totally fucked and corrupted

probably some kinda undead

[frank crystal]

Could just be fucked up chimeras

Like they became too animalistic

While normal paaridars are still mostly human with animal parts

[surreal basin]

mhm

[frank crystal]

They’re just weird animals with some human parts sticking out

[surreal basin]

I'm also thinking maybe bodaks

since normal paaridars take void damage

when they use ki powers

so I think a bodak would represent being overwhelemd by that corruption

[frank crystal]

So what’s generally what the divine list good at besides healing?

[turbid dagger]

Buffs

Making outsiders cry

[frank crystal]

Outsiders are just anything not from the material plane right?

[warped orbit]

yes

[frank crystal]

Alright

Do ghosts count?

[unborn rain]

It's a ghost use heal on it

[frank crystal]

Oh yah

[turbid dagger]

Nah, they're undead
Outsiders are specifically the angel/devil/psychpomp/aeon band

[clever cobalt]

And uh

Spectra

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[frank crystal]

What are those?

[clever cobalt]

They're beings from the Drift, a dimension for FTL in Starfinder

They're not in PF to my knowledge though

Due to the weirdness involving the Drift

[frank crystal]

Ohh alright

[rapid wagon]

Technically the drift is inaccessible in the narrative present of pathfinder iirc

[frank crystal]

Also are there any good low level ethereal stuff that aren’t like, ghosts?

[clever cobalt]

Or doesn't exist

[rapid wagon]

Yeah

[frank crystal]

Stuff that you need ghost touch to hit but allow a necromancer to control them without like, enslaving a person’s soul

[clever cobalt]

The Drift is weird

Also have we gotten clarification involving the first Starfinder 2e AP's level range?

Given it involves ||Aucturn hatching|| I wouldn't be surprised if it's 1-20, but we'll see I suppose

[fossil temple]

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=660103 made a warpriest for a one shot, what you guys think?

[barren cipher]

i would probably lean into crafting as much as possible unless there's someone else who can fix your shield

i think you could have +4 strength at 8th as well

[frank crystal]

So for this upcoming game I’ve got a pretty balanced comp

A druid, a drifter gunslinger, a psychopomp summoner, an earth and air kineticist, and probably a fighter or barb

They haven’t decided yet

[solar tendon]

secular medic and warpriest is an interesting combo

[warped orbit]

works pretty well

you get stuff like Healing Hands in Cleric too

wait no, Magic Hands
that's the one

[rapid wagon]

I can't decide if i want to be a magus, kineticist, or monk in my upcoming game. I've talked to yall about my kineticist already and think mechanically i got it down pat; my monk would be a mummy that uses gorilla style to bully enemies, and then goes hard into intimidation; and my magus would be a skeleton former mafia guy. Think id do laughing shadow with him

[barren cipher]

well, you can either be responsible and think about your party composition or you can roll 1d6, 1-2 kineticist, 3-4 monk, 5-6 magus, and you will quickly realise what you want to play

[rapid wagon]

hahaha

subjective, but which sounds cool
A. Kineticist Skeleton who has no past, trying to figure out their past, present, and future.
B. Former Mafia magical bruiser Magus, killed as a loose end and raised as a skeleton, seeking to become a big fish in a bigger pond
C. Mummy Monk who was mummified to spend eternity learning their kung fu, but left the monastary to use their arts to bully and dominate, and seeking political power

[barren cipher]

you've also chosen medicine for both of your +1 skill increases

they don't stack

hellspawn doesn't really do much for you, climbing tail is hard to beat

[barren cipher]

i assume this is blood lords or similar

i'm not sure how compatible mummy is with monk stances if you were planning on using one

[rapid wagon]

yeah its bloodlord

Plan was to use the gorilla stance cause it links into intimidation later

and has grapples

the interaction with my hands, mechanically, is a bit moot since beign a monk already makes my pucnhes lethal

but the flavor is fun

[barren cipher]

if you're doing a strict reading of the rules i don't think your gorilla slam unarmed attacks would count for the extra stuff on fist hit

i don't think it breaks anything though

[rapid wagon]

yeah, i was assuming gorilla wont actually tie into the mummy stuff for punching

but there are other fun mummy feats in the dedication that seem non-punchy

that would be cool

like gaining inclement weather and concealment

or coughing real scary

disguising myself (not needed in geb i think), and becoming even more undead-y

mechanically i know my party has a rogue who wants to be a gymnast assassin and i know there's a planned Tyrant who may not be able to join as regularly. There's also a flakey player considering sorcerer, and a possible cleric or fighter on the table; last one is looking at thaumaturge, summoner, alchemist or bard.

so i feel like the magus kinda fills the most cross discplinary/fill roles

especially if the tyrant and sorc arent in sessions consistently

the monk just seems like a fun idea to play a heihachi esque dark kung fu practitioner

and the kineticist was mostly born of a "hey kineticist is kinda cool and the class didn't exist in pf1" vibe

but role wise its also a bit of flex, though combat oriented

[barren cipher]

i'd go magus personally but i have an unhealthy obsession with large numbers

[rapid wagon]

hahaha

i was thinking going laughing shadow

and fodder skeleton

to be a fast boi

i suppose i could also try and have my cake and eat it too

go like arcane fist or whatever it is

with magus

punch stuff with magic

[barren cipher]

i think you can probably skip that if you're a mummy

[rapid wagon]

true, tho my magus is intended to be a skelly boi atm

but i could totally be a mummy magus too

i can't be a skeleton mummy can I

[barren cipher]

i can't remember but i think there's a bit of competition at 1st

um, let me check

i expect not

[rapid wagon]

thats my thought as well

magus would mean the party has consistent access to a magic knower, a dps guy, and someone speedy

if i go magic shield magus, might be able to tough it out on the front some too

instead of laughing shadow i mean

[barren cipher]

targe is good times

[rapid wagon]

targe magus would be a bit of a do everything yeah? not quite teh jack of trades a bard is but still multitalented?

[fossil temple]

thank ya

[fossil temple]

Oh shit they don't stack
Also hellspawn is purely for roleplay reasons

[barren cipher]

if that's the case then i wouldn't pay money for it

[fossil temple]

pay money?

[barren cipher]

sorry, i mean expend resources

if you want to be descended from devils then that comes free with nephilim

don't pay for it if it doesn't benefit you

[fossil temple]

oh! Thank ya

[barren cipher]

https://vxtwitter.com/paizo/status/1754617083961159858

[surreal basin]

THIS IMPLIES. MULTIPLE

[sinful gyro]

Does it?

[heavy fulcrum]

generally bingo involves picking spots until you get a complete line

[sinful gyro]

Last one standing dies

The rest get marked off as alive

[heavy fulcrum]

though its generally also a square, so who knows

[sinful gyro]

I doubt its going to be multiple dead

Given they said otherwise

[turbid dagger]

I am ashamed that I can't recognize all of these

[sinful gyro]

I wouldn't worry

Their god art is not consistent

Which is also sort of a lore thing

[surreal basin]

I puzzled them all out eventually

Still hoping the prismatic ray shakeup isn’t that one of them dies lol

[frank crystal]

Wait, I don’t see any that could be Iomedae

Is she just, not an option?

Wait no

Top left

That’s probably her

[warped orbit]

top row, second from the left is Iomedae yeah

[turbid dagger]

Okay I think I got em all actually
Erastil, Iomedae, Torag, Sarenrae
Shelyn, Cayden, Desna, Abadar
Irori, Gozreh, Nethys, Pharasma
Calistria, Gorum, Asmodeus, Zon-Kuthon
Norgorber, Urgathoa, Lamashtu, Rovagug

I am now a certified Nerd

It was Pharasma, Nethys, and Norgorber that were stumping me

[warped orbit]

seems correct, yeah

Gorum was one I was blanking on
didn't expect him to be in full on dark lord armor I guess

[frank crystal]

I always kinda imagined him like

Conan style

But his title is “Our Lord in Iron”

So I guess it makes sense

[heavy fulcrum]

yeah gorum is a heavy armor boy

[turbid dagger]

Yeah its said that he is made of metal
And if there was ever universal peace he'd rust away

[heavy fulcrum]

yeah

[turbid dagger]

More specifically, that he lives in every weapon

[heavy fulcrum]

hes exclusively depicted by the armor, though in a "armor with unseen wearer" way as opposed to the "living armor" way

though some say he is actually the latter but hes a god so its sort of vague if that distinction matters

[turbid dagger]

Which is WHY Barbarians should have heavy armor prof natively 🥺

[rapid wagon]

Isn't one of gorums main like dudes a iron golem made of weapons?

[heavy fulcrum]

thats his herald, yeah

[trim grotto]

what might be a good place to look for pathfinder campaigns

[turbid dagger]

The pathfinder2e discord is probably the best one
Not sure if you are there already
(its called 'pathfinder2e' but technically speaking it is the discord for PF2e reddit but I never go on reddit and the discord seems more active anyway)

[trim grotto]

is there a link for that somewhere

[turbid dagger]

https://discord.gg/7a7Nzj8q

[frank crystal]

Are there rules for repairing vehicles?

[turbid dagger]

I think you use Repair like any other item

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[echo briar]

They can’t be revealing it already right?

This seems very early after the spent so long building the mystery

[limber comet]

Gozreh dies

[thorny berry]

My money's on pharasma, go big or go home

[limber comet]

The fact that Rovagug is on there is

Eyebrow raising

[turbid dagger]

Its just a list of every core god
Rovagug is one, but its unlikely to be him I think
As that would more likely de-escalate planar politics

[limber comet]

Norgorber, the god of murder, gets murdered

[frank crystal]

Honestly I do really hope it’s not one of the evil gods

That’d be such a cop out

After all they’ve hyped this for

[trim grotto]

recommendations for stuff to play in Starfinder 1e? I'm still new

[limber comet]

Asmodeus dying would be an insane play

[frank crystal]

“Yah Asmodeus, dark prince of lies and king of the hells fell and tripped on the stairs”

[limber comet]

It would upturn the Hells

And the key to Rovagug's cage?

Well...

[turbid dagger]

The only two evil gods I'd particularly enjoy is Asmodeus and Zon Kuthon
Zonzon because Shelyn can become goth
And Asmodeus because it would set up a gargantuan civil war in hell which I think would be fun and a good impetus for the Godwar

[limber comet]

Asmodeus' death would be a MASSIVE lychpin

[turbid dagger]

And yeah the key to rovagug's cage is basically a fantasy suitcase nuke

[solar storm]

suitcase

It's pretty big innit

[turbid dagger]

I meant in the context of like
'small, easily stealable object a bad actor could do REALLY bad things with'

[frank crystal]

Lamashtu would easily be the worst possible choice

She’s already mostly irrelevant

Killing her off would just cleaning up what they’ve already abandoned

[turbid dagger]

Oh yeah for sure
Like, I don't like her much, think she's kind of a holdover of the Bad Writing
But it would be a little lame after all the hype

[frank crystal]

And rn all she does is make everything worse for everyone

She’s not cosmically important enough for her death to matter but is important enough that it improves everything if she dies

[frank crystal]

She can just stay in the background

Someone actually important should die

[turbid dagger]

Well there's something to be said about her being the most powerful figure in the abyss
Being the demon lord that actually became a god

[frank crystal]

Yah but like

It’s not hell where she actually calls the shots

Demons aren’t organized enough for that

[turbid dagger]

I assume that when Lamashtu says something other demons listen, but yeah its not like
Someone is necessarily getting her throne if she bites it
She's just the Big Rat That Makes All Of The Rules

[frank crystal]

It’d probably cause a civil war to take her place but like

Demons are always in a civil war

It’s kinda their thing to fight amongst themselves when they’re not killing others

[turbid dagger]

Asmodeus is probably what I'm hoping for
Like, thats my vote
Because Hell War Of The Roses sounds rad
Let Eiseth do that big rebellion she's been planning
It would also let me have my SOT Summoner's devil eidolon have a fucking meltdown that he's stuck following some twink around while HELL'S THRONE IS OPEN FOR THE TAKING

[frank crystal]

“This eidolon thing seemed so much better when I DIDNT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO RULE HELL!”

[turbid dagger]

Oh he's hated this shit from the start
His Pit Fiend boss booted him to the mortal realm specifically to snub his chance at becoming Malebranche
The infernal equivalent of getting reassigned to antartica

[frank crystal]

Damn

Rip to him

Assigned to become some twink’s eidolon

[turbid dagger]

Truly
Asmodeus keeps giving him his toughest battles
He has to follow around a bunch of horny loser 20-somethings who call him 'KK' and ask to ride on his horns

[frank crystal]

Honestly, I’d never imagine I’d feel bad for a devil

But I do for him

[turbid dagger]

Mario and Kaineghis were truly inspired choices for my first Pathfinder characters
Wet cat and devil butler

[frank crystal]

Have they gotten slightly closer over the course of their adventure?

[turbid dagger]

A little bit
Kaineghis recognized that Mario has potential after he endangered himself by helping KK flank a giant bug
Though this is still in the context of 'you'll make a great devil after I drag you to hell and torture you for a few millenia'
And our sorceror Nelisiwe is infatuated with him because of how he describes Hell as a pure meritocracy (she's a half elf who spent her formative years facing discrimination from her elven family)
And he gave her a very warped pep talk praising the power of her sorcery when she fell into a deep depression the first time she went down in a fight

[limber comet]

We can fix him <33

[frank crystal]

He’s a very formal devil

Quite polite

[turbid dagger]

That is the hope
Though tbh I'm imagining his arc to end less with 'I love love, I hate hate' and more
'I don't need Hell, its bureacracy is stifling me and if I want to become something I'm proud of, I need to break free of it'
Kaineghis' number one trait is Ambition
He's less than a millenium old and wants a shot at Malebranche, a demigod position in Hell's hierarchy just below the Dukes
His open lust for the position was such that his boss successfully argued in Hell Court that he was disrespecting his current position (as his aide)

[frank crystal]

So he wants to believe the myth of the meritocracy more then anything

Just because he thinks he will earn that position eventually

[turbid dagger]

Yeah! That's a big part of it
He is a member of Eiseth's faction in Dis, and she's an inspiration for him
She carved her way up hell's ranks even as an angelic outsider because she was good
And he's good
Good enough to be Malebranche

[frank crystal]

Also I presume the eidolon stuff only lasts until Mario is dead?

So to him this is basically a small bump in his career path

[surreal basin]

That’s fair, I just hope they don’t kill a member of prismatic ray, that’d be so depressing

[turbid dagger]

Yes
Upon which point Mario is going to Hell
Which is why Mario is at the Magaambya
He's trying to figure out a way to break the contract through magical means, instead of having to uh
Raid Hell
To destroy it physically
And the big reason its such a pain in the ass is that the Malebranche test only comes up every 5000 years
And the most recent one is going to occur in Mario's natural lifetime

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

So KK does want Mario to die quickly if he can

But he can’t kill him because he’s an eidolon

And is directly controlled by him

[turbid dagger]

Yeah he's contractually unable to harm him

And must obey any order he's given
(He can talk freely because of a loophole which lets him consider his snark 'important advice')

[frank crystal]

What’s the point of having a devil for an eidolon if they don’t sass you?

[turbid dagger]

So its either
'hope he gets eaten by a frog or something in the next decade'
Or helping him get out of the contract

[frank crystal]

At that point just get an animal eidolon

[frank crystal]

Oh yah huh

If he can break his contract that means he’s free to do his test

[turbid dagger]

So Mario's wacky adventures work for him either way
Either he figures it out, or he gets eaten by a frog

[frank crystal]

He’ll lose his soul but like, that’s one mortal soul for potential demigodhood

That’s a worthwhile trade

[turbid dagger]

Indeed!

[frank crystal]

And if Asmodeus leaves this immortal coil soon… potential godhood

[turbid dagger]

But yeah, he can't obey any self destructive order, such as 'Kaineghis, slit my throat', or 'Kaineghis, throw me off this cliff'
So if he feels his words have some potential value, Mario telling him 'Kaineghis shut up' doesn't work

[frank crystal]

Has he been told to shut up?

[turbid dagger]

Once or twice

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

[frank crystal]

Also wait was he almost eaten by a frog?

You keep bringing up specifically frogs

[turbid dagger]

Oh I'm just making a joke
Frogs were the first thing to come to mind
Though our Sorceror did almost get their throat slit by a paper frog in the first fight

[frank crystal]

Oh shit

First fights always tend to go badly in my experience

[turbid dagger]

[2/15/2023, 8:55:09 PM] Gamemaster
She also admits she'd like to not be there when you make the caterpilar oil.
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 8:55:26 PM] Anchor Root
She looks at her feet and fidgets. "I d-d-d-on't want to see them d-die."
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 8:56:12 PM] Kaineghis
"Unsurprising. We shall perform that part of the task, girl. If all of you are similarly bleeding hearts, then I will render the beasts down personally."
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 8:56:35 PM] Mpingo
sighs "kk, you're so helpful. what a kind soul you are."
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 8:57:12 PM] Kaineghis
"I exist to serve," He says, voice genuine despite the attempt at a barb.
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 8:57:39 PM] Mpingo
to rio "have you tried commanding him to not be a jerk?"
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 8:57:48 PM] Mpingo
he says earnestly
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 8:59:39 PM] Mario
"I have told him to avoid lying, but so long as what he's saying is something he considers to be constructive, he is allowed to consider it 'advice'. Apparently that lets him say it regardless of whether I want him too or not. Devils, loop holes, I'm sure you understand."
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 9:00:19 PM] Mpingo
@rio "dang... yeah, that makes sense."
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 9:01:16 PM] Kaineghis
"By contract, my master is not allowed to order me to do something which would actively harm him. Not heeding my counsel causes tangible harm. It is not a 'loop-hole'."
---------------------------
[2/15/2023, 9:01:22 PM] Mario
"It is."
``` Found the relevant section from our old chat logs
I've always loved this exchange

[frank crystal]

That is very fun

[frank crystal]

I should probably actually ask my summoner player where their eidolon comes from

And if they’ll be playing them as a character RP wise

Or if they’re going to be silent

They’re a psychopomp so it wouldn’t be to weird for them to be silent

But they’re also the spirits of their characters ancestors

So idk

[turbid dagger]

For me playing your eidolon is like
40-60% of the fun of playin a summoner
You have your Dude and then your Weirder Dude

Even animal and plant eidolons speak a language and are intelligent

[frank crystal]

True

But also just from the vibes this character is giving off

Their eidolon kinda seems like a silent swordsman you know?

But also they just haven’t told me yet

So they very well may be playing them as a character

[turbid dagger]

Well, seems like something to establish

[frank crystal]

Yah

Their character is still being made

They gave me the idea only a bit ago

And swapped to summoner today

[trim grotto]

HOW IS THIS A THING
https://www.aonsrd.com/FightingStyles.aspx?ItemName=Exosuit

(starfinder)

It's a fighting style where you're a mech pilot

Holy shit

[young chasm]

didn't a mecha AP just drop for sf1e too

[trim grotto]

Yeah

[sinful gyro]

They will be crossing off one from the list who will be safe

That's my predicition

Hence the bingo card

Then they narrow it down and down until it's left between the one whose gonna die and the one with the biggest fan speculation

[unborn rain]

bingo card, who ever gets the first bingo gets to pick which god to kill

[clever cobalt]

What do I do if my Friend and GM wants me to swap classes to something conceptually similar, but I don't really want to go that path?

The context is that my friend thinks Kineticist is too OP and is making my switch classes, but keep the same "vibe" (e.g. Fire Controller)

He wants me to go Sorcerer or Wizard, but I don't really enjoy playing casters

And would rather play a Martial or sometjing

[solar tendon]

I think fundamentally thats not really tenable yeah

kineticist is its own vibe

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

You can't really like

Get the same vibe from a kineticist

He wants me to go "fire themed caster" but I dunno if I can really do that

[solar tendon]

and I think like compromise wise if you're gonna make someone change classes then you should be fairly lenient in what they actually change to

cause I think its a fairly big ask in a game like this

[clever cobalt]

I agree

But he seems pretty insistent I go for the same vibe

Even though I really don't like that

[light gyro]

tell them Some Internet Guy said kineticist isnt op. youre not even getting funny tree spell

[clever cobalt]

Unfortunately doesnt work like that

He doesn't like how I can do a ton of damage over everyone else

Even though our Magus isn't spellstriking and our Fighter doesn't have a striking weapon at level 5

Among other things

He also thinks I'm powergaming when I'm just optimizing my character

[light gyro]

where's your damage coming from out of interest

[clever cobalt]

Flying Flame, a 3d8 2-action ability where I can control the line

Also the Kineticist fire aura (which makes everyone in it weak to fire up to half my level) and the stance which does fire damage up to half my level to those in my aura (basically meaning all enemies take 5 fire damage in my aura at level 5)

Don't get me wrong, I know its a bit powerful, but it's hard to not be when everyone is playing their character suboptimally

[light gyro]

yeah its really not a lot. and it gets shut down hard by just. hitting you with a big guy.

[solar tendon]

yeah thats kinda what I was afraid of

[light gyro]

flying fire's a 3d6+mod at 5th level. expected damage is lower than electric arc if you're hitting two creatures

[solar tendon]

the fighter not having a striking rune is on the gm

just because kineticist scales automatically doesnt mean its op, nor would becoming a spellcaster even solve that problem

and if the main issue is party balance and not like, encounter steamrolling then they should bring the other players up

[clever cobalt]

Technically the Fire Kineticist has their junction, which means every 2 or 3 action impulse goes up by one damage die

[solar tendon]

not kill your character concept

[clever cobalt]

So it would be 3d8

But yeah

[carmine egret]

clearly the answer is to go back and take some suboptimal feats

[clever cobalt]

Yeah but that isn't fun

[carmine egret]

Yeah I was playin'
It's tricky because I do think you're in the right but it also would feel bad to say "everyone else needs to Get Good"

Maybe if you can explain that the problem would probably persist if you changed classes?

[rustic cape]

I would also suggest making yourself available if any of the other players want to talk builds

[true delta]

And tell ypur GM about striking runes.

[clever cobalt]

Oh, everyone else (at least martials) has a striking rune

The fighter doesn't though

[rustic cape]

That’s a problem

But yeah, GMs often underestimate the utility of having a skilled optimizer at the table, and turn their relationship into something adversarial when usually it could be collaborative

[silver geyser]

It's wild to read about someone getting their class changed when there's a Magus in the party not spellstriking

Like

Why even play Magus at that point?

[charred patrol]

it feels "i want to play a barbarian without raging"

[silver geyser]

I guess?

[light gyro]

quick ask them how they feel about 5e rogue's sneak attack

[rapid wagon]

oh, question, for a party who has never touched pf2e yet, will striking runes emerge organically or does someone have to know about them to know that we can/could access them somehow?

[light gyro]

characters will generally find level-appropriate runes in treasure/off weapon/armour-using creatures

[surreal basin]

Ehhh
In my experience you should be buying them in APs
Like they DO show up as enemy loot but

At a weird progression

But you can also just buy them

[silver geyser]

You might see one or two handed out

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Not enough for the entire party

[silver geyser]

Unless there's a lot of humanoid enemies, like in Age of Ashes

[surreal basin]

But also they are the most buyable items like

Ever

Any town of the right level will have them for sale

[silver geyser]

Even small little villages are going to be able to get their hands on em

[surreal basin]

Thinking about mammoth lords where none are ever dropped or sold (there’s no towns in the AP)

[silver geyser]

Mammoth Lords is a weird campaign

[light gyro]

the fourth book in the AP i'm running starts at 12 level and the first fight dumps a +2 greater striking returning dagger, a major staff of fire, and a flame tongue on you right at the start. very subtle!!

[silver geyser]

Being a crafter helped my group with weapon and armor runes

[light gyro]

(yeah that works, dont fall into the trap of thinking you should be crafting at/above level stuff tho)

at least, not if your wealth goes by the book's guidance

[frank crystal]

Hmm, so I know the gunkata archetype is unfortunately a bit underpowered

But you think it might be a good idea to just grab a pistol on an unarmed character?

Assuming they’re using a stance that doesn’t disallow using other strikes

[surreal basin]

If they’re dex based sure

If they’re strength based it’s…. Probably not worth your time lol

[frank crystal]

Yah probably not

[solar thorn]

In abomination vaults my 4 players each now have a striking rune at level 5 and they bought none, all loot

[surreal basin]

wild

[solar thorn]

(There is one part of Floor ||4|| where there's a ton though)

[surreal basin]

that is definitely like

unusual yeah lol

[frank crystal]

Personally I’ve always liked just giving my players fundamental runes

[unborn rain]

That's normal the rest of the written adventures are wrong. Like this I assume is the point were you're supposed to have them in pathfinders math

[solar thorn]

Specifically ||Jaul the werewolf has 2 striking katars to cannibalize and then right next to him is Otari's striking dagger||

[frank crystal]

Let ‘em pay for the property runes but I kinda need them to have the fundamental runes for the games math to work

[solar thorn]

I have to constantly remind my players to exchange runes off weapons they scavange to upgrade their preferred ones though

[surreal basin]

I've played a lot of APs, I think, like, 4 or 5, and they usually kinda just

[rapid wagon]

hmm so any old merchant will generally just have runes that we can buy?

[surreal basin]

forget to give some fellas runes

[surreal basin]

yeah

[rapid wagon]

ok neat

[surreal basin]

pathfinder has a different approach to shops than like 5e

[rapid wagon]

i know that'll be a gap in our collective knowledge going in and ive heard from yall that they're pretty much integral/expected

[surreal basin]

you don't get a selection of magic items really - the intent is that you can buy any item of the level of the town your in or lower

[rapid wagon]

tbh I almost feel like if they're super expected/integral, they should almost be free/part of a leveling process or something that happen at a milestone

[surreal basin]

there is an option for this

automatic bonus progression

[rapid wagon]

hmm ok so im a bit familiar with town/item level from starfinder

[unborn rain]

Rune's are a part of scaling so when people don't get them it can really fuck with their stuff

[solar thorn]

The only thing I've seen is maybe give your fighter more runes than expected by the rules if they want to really go for the "weaponmaster" vibe

[silver geyser]

Rune for Ranged, runes for 3 weapons, rune for sidearm

[rapid wagon]

yeah, the vibe ive gotten is that not getting runes can completely fuck you up.

[silver geyser]

And some of those can just be behind

[rapid wagon]

which tells me they should really just be doled out at some point

so if i were running i might use that milestone alt rule emily mentioned

[silver geyser]

And most APs do dole them out

We were swimming in runes in Age of Ashes

[rapid wagon]

might suggest it to my gm too, just cause like, itd suck to miss out cause no one thought to buy them out of being new, and got hamstrung for it

[frank crystal]

Also imo not handing out runes kinda makes low money campaigns extremely hard

[surreal basin]

I just give out an ungodly amount of money in my home games

[silver geyser]

If you have majority humanoid enemies, runes just naturally happen

[frank crystal]

Because if they’re buying runes, that means they need money because otherwise they’re missing out on extremely important stuff

[frank crystal]

Yah but sometimes that just doesn’t fit

Like rn one of my games is the players stuck in an eternal winter cut off from the rest of the world

There’s no way for them to even buy stuff

Let alone get runes unless I give them out

[rapid wagon]

i think for a gm for newbies just like stressing that they are there, and are available can be pretty important for ppl new to pf2

though if hte gm is also new, it might be a challenge unless the book heavily flags them

[rustic cape]

I recommend playing with Automatic Bonus Progression

If you’re worried about this

[light gyro]

that or do whatever and demand a player change class if they learn how the game works hee hee ho ho

[barren cipher]

i don't like kineticist much either honestly

but it's not broken broken

[trim grotto]

Hey if anyone here is familiar with Starfinder, any tips for making a decent powered armor build?

[barren cipher]

i suppose if you're coming from other systems where some things are just strictly and game-destroyingly better than others then you might have experience with absolutely having to change or disallow things so the majority of your players can actually engage

[rapid wagon]

I think one of hte premier ones is playing a melee soldier with the armor storm speciality iirc

[rapid wagon]

Less from a mechanical perspective I suppose, but I quite like kineticist in terms of vibes and build adaptability

[trim grotto]

Are ranged weapons not a good idea?

[rapid wagon]

I don't think I would say that personally

but i think the heavy armor benefits getting in close nicely

unfortunately im not otherwise deeply versed in starfinder builds, i just remember a lot of hot talk about the power armor melee soldier

[surreal basin]

Pretty sure engineer can also build for PA

[rapid wagon]

i think other strong ranged PA builds aren't specifically tied to being in power armor, but are strong ranged builds that are also in power armor

and yeah a mechanic can make a good PA build with an exocortex build iirc

[rapid wagon]

question

if an alchemist makes bane ammo via infused reagent

how much ammo is that?

1 shot?

[solar tendon]

during daily prep, 3 for toxicologist 2 for everyone else; for quick alchemy, 1 for everyone

[rapid wagon]

ok so if the alchemist has that formula in the ir book and makes it with advanced alchemy

they are making 1 shot per regeant

?

unless they're a toxicologist?

[solar tendon]

advanced alchemy is daily prep

so they'd get two per reagent

or 3 if toxicologist

ah wait sorry, 3 for toxicologist's two signature poisons

[rapid wagon]

ohhh

huh wait would you be willing to direct me to where it tells me that they'd be making 2

[solar tendon]

or any poisons from level 5 onwards

[rapid wagon]

fo the daily prep?

[solar tendon]

it's under the rules for research field

[rapid wagon]

ah so itd be 2 shots

of bane ammo

and theyd choose what it's a bane for then

[solar tendon]

sorry, 2 for 1 is under the rules for advanced alchemy

[barren cipher]

For each batch of infused reagents you spend, choose an alchemical item of your advanced alchemy level or lower that's in your formula book, and make a batch of two of that item.

[solar tendon]

^

[rapid wagon]

tyty

[solar tendon]

ye

[rapid wagon]

friend is considering playing alchemist as a bag of tricks/utility class

and we're puzzling out how it all works

there is a LOT

[barren cipher]

well, you need separate formulae for each type of bane ammunition

[rapid wagon]

and there are SO MANY alchemical items

[barren cipher]

yeah alchemist is absolute hell like that honestly

[rapid wagon]

oh you'd need seperate formulas for each bane?

i figured you'd pick off the alchemical item list

and bane ammo is its one entry

own*

[barren cipher]

generally yes! but

Monster hunters favor bane ammunition that contains a capsule of reagents tailored to a particular type of creature— aberration, animal, beast, dragon, fey, giant, ooze, or both fungus and plant. Each type requires a different formula.

[solar tendon]

rip

[barren cipher]

treasure vault is like this sometimes

[rapid wagon]

ripperoni

[solar tendon]

chad fury cocktail vs virgin bane ammunition

[rapid wagon]

lol

we figure she'll want some good general purpose/applicable formulas to start

and then expand from there

to have problem solving tools

[solar tendon]

honestly as an alchemist liker even I would also look at thaumaturge

[rapid wagon]

thats actually what she looked at first

[solar tendon]

oh fair

[rapid wagon]

but it didn't have enough of a problem solving set up for other people in her mind

and felt more constrained with how it uses its bag of tricks

[solar tendon]

alchemist can do crazy stuff yeah

requires party buy in though

[rapid wagon]

how do you mean?

literally?

[solar tendon]

in terms of being willing to use the items having an alchemist makes available

if you want to be supportive that is

like compared to inspire courage which is literally fire and forget on vtt for example

alchemist is fun though! Especially if one is the type to get into it

just the least straightforward class haha

[rapid wagon]

yeah for sure

shes not settled on it

but i think she likes it a lot more

with access to getting more formula, quick alchemy, and reagents

[solar tendon]

it's very cool yeah

[rapid wagon]

i don't know if she can make things ot heal us undead

like some bone hurtin juice for my skeleton

[solar tendon]

elixir of life does not work

but

hm actually idk if soothing tonic does either

[turbid dagger]

Alas the primary undead consumable is the magic oil of unlife

[warped orbit]

Soothing Tonic should work, as does Numbing

[rapid wagon]

oh?

[solar tendon]

it kinda just hits the issue that how to heal undead isn't really. defined other than in the cases of positive/negative spells

like soothe (the spell) is intended to be a healing option for undead but by tags didn't actually work (at the time at least)

[warped orbit]

Anything with the Positive/Vitality tag doesn't work, otherwise most things work unless they say they don't

[solar tendon]

so to an extent, it's an ask your gm situation

[turbid dagger]

Yeah my understanding was that all sources of healing worked on Undead save ones that specifically had the Vitality tag (which, to be fair, is a lot of them) and ones that specifically indicate a Living Creature (which to be fair, is quite a few of them)

[thorny berry]

🤔 would timber sentinel be balanced if it had overflow

though I suppose the goofy create-a-forest rp implications remain

[barren cipher]

i don't think so

[rapid wagon]

hmm actually, regarding alchemist, what about it exactly makes considered to be suffering so much as a class

[barren cipher]

you're just gonna timber sentinel and blast every turn

[barren cipher]

it's the huge lists of consumables, the requirements for formulae, and taking a direct approach being a bit mediocre

[rapid wagon]

mmm ok

what are the fixes people are wanted

[barren cipher]

toxicologist being next to useless unless you know that you're going to be up against lots of things that aren't immune to poison

i'm not really familiar with the discourse so i couldn't say how to fix it

[turbid dagger]

I think a big thing for a lot of people is that
A: You are mostly handing stuff to other people
B: You aren't doing much that a large amount of money could not do
Alchemical items are things you can just like
Buy

[barren cipher]

you have some great buffs and stuff but like

bard is just over there and you don't need a diploma to play it

[rapid wagon]

mm ok

so its like... still pretty workable, but lags behind easier options

[turbid dagger]

And Bard can have Phantasmal Killer in their back pocket or something

[rapid wagon]

I do like alchemist having suc ha massive selection of tricks to put in their bag

and is a more traditional view on the bag o tricks style o play

[turbid dagger]

Yeah generally Alchemist is fine on a pure power balance level
Its more that the playstyle is not particularly appealing to a lot of folks

[solar tendon]

nah ngl I think B is kinda a copout

[barren cipher]

if you want a tool for every problem, wizard is over there and the magic system is robust and independent

[trim grotto]

hey another starfinder question, what playable species could i style as something close to the Quarian from Mass Effect. My first thought was Kalo

[solar tendon]

like with sufficicent money you can buy a greater striking rune at level 1, that doesn't make damage bonus abilities useless

[rapid wagon]

i feel like thaum is trying to do bag of tricks, but it shaves off i think a bit to make it more streamlined and easily applicable

[barren cipher]

the thing is that you can't paint yourself into a corner with thaum

your basic chassis just works

[rapid wagon]

well thats cause you're already into a corner i think

[solar tendon]

alchemists entire power is giving you steady access to multiple on-level consumables a day

[barren cipher]

you can ruin your own day as alchemist

[rustic cape]

I think that’s actually fine though? Because there’s a type of player who really likes spreadsheets and building a class for those players is a good thing

[solar tendon]

on level consumables are cracked af because they basically let you jump ahead a tier

[rustic cape]

Not every class has to be for everyone

[barren cipher]

usually that kind of player expects a bit of a payoff for their time and energy

[turbid dagger]

I suppose so
But Storm's Q was 'why do a lot of people not like alchemist'

And its because not a lot of people are The Spreadsheet Guy

[rustic cape]

I take this perspective because I have a friend who loves Alchemist specifically because she is The Spreadsheet Girl

[solar tendon]

the other thing is additives and other alchemist feats mean that Yes, The Alchemist Is Actually Good At Using Their Stuff

[rustic cape]

She wanted a bag of tricks class and we were like “oh, thaum”

And then she looked at thaum and it was way too streamlined

[rapid wagon]

i think thats honestly how my friend ended up at alchemist from thaum

[warped orbit]

Additives also have their own issues though, as do some of the other Alchi feats

namely that they only work with Quick Alchemy

[solar tendon]

sure you can buy a bestial mutagen. you can't buy the feral mutagen feat

[turbid dagger]

Thaum is fascinating because it gets all the weird stuff but it also just gets Barbarian levels of flat damage
Doing like 1d8+8 at level 1

[solar storm]

Yeah, I think alchemist just has niche appeal

[warped orbit]

and using Quick Alchemy a lot cuts down quite substantially on the overall number of items you can make

[rustic cape]

Alchemist on the other hand was perfect, she clicked on it immediately

[rapid wagon]

because the thaum had a bag of tricks, but that bag of tricks is generally just directly applying to ability to deal damage, which isn't exactly a real bag of tricks

[rustic cape]

Because she likes Spreadsheets

[solar storm]

My girlfriend loves the class

[solar tendon]

you quite quickly get a lot of infused reagents tbh, but it heavily depends on level of play

cause yeah at low levels quick alchemy is arguably a trap

[rapid wagon]

the fact that you make 2 per regeant when using advanced alchemy

feels liek you get a lot of volume

[rustic cape]

I hope they don’t remove the niche appeal with the remaster

[warped orbit]

a lot of alchemical items also have kinda awkward durations, especially early on
so you need to know when to prebuff with what
because using items mid combat is still very awkard, which is also a greater issue with Alchi

[solar tendon]

there's also a really big difference between efficiency between instant effects and buff effects

cause elixirs often scale duration while a bomb is always a 1 round thing

[rustic cape]

Like if they could make it appealing to more people that’d be great

But not at the cost of Spreadsheet People

[rapid wagon]

i feel like a big streamline would make its identity boil down to "utility thaum" somehow

[rustic cape]

That’s kinda my worry

[warped orbit]

I want Alchi to get way more unique interactions with alchemical items personally

[rustic cape]

That’d be good

[warped orbit]

more stuff like the mutagen feats

also they probably need some form of resourceless thing earlier

[rapid wagon]

what would someone get from an alchemist dedication?

[warped orbit]

quite a lot actually

[rapid wagon]

my brain went to "thaum/alchemist"

[warped orbit]

Alchi dedication is quite good, even if you don't quite get full scaling

[solar storm]

Yeah its a super good dedication

[rapid wagon]

so thaum/alchi is not a crazy idea

if you really wanna live the bag o tricks vibe?

her characte concept is not to be persnally very lethal, but to hand people solutions to problems and to keep herself safe

[solar storm]

It's a little MAD because of Thaum wanting cha but that's definitely doable

[turbid dagger]

Talisman/Scroll/Alchemy thaum seems a little silly for sure

[solar storm]

Though honestly I think a lore focused alchemist can probably do that play concept pretty well

Thaumaturge is a pretty aggressive class

[turbid dagger]

Bro brought the whole marketplace to the dungeon

[rapid wagon]

lol

[warped orbit]

Some other stuff I think Alchi could use

• Quick Draw equivalent for alchemical items
• make Additives work when using Advanced Alchemy

[rapid wagon]

i think their story loosely is that they are looking for/cataloguing/acquiring methods to immortality

[solar storm]

Yeah these are nice

Quick Bomber but no Quick Chugger is a bummer

[rapid wagon]

i remembr making some fun drunken brawler/alchemist builds in pf1

bottomless alchoholic ki

[young chasm]

a point for alchemist:
you gain access to consumables that give +2 to skill checks MUCH earlier than permanent items do

which is super powerful imo

i think alchemist's point of contention isn't that bad? because it forces you to interact with a lot of different systems of the game and you'll usually end up with a pretty nice knowledge about it too

like understanding why +1's matter, which specific +1's are good for your group and why, etc

[rapid wagon]

my assessement is that it's downsides largely boil down to punishing lack of game knowledge more than other classes; with a side dish of needing some refreshes to it's own internal interactions with the systems it touches on

[warped orbit]

I mostly think they are too much effort to use well currently, so I'd like them to get more QoL and ease of use

[young chasm]

on the other side of things, even if the alchemist isn't doing things themselves and is handing items off to other people

if my martial does the thing because the consumable i gave him enabled him to do the thing, that feels good imo

like a grappler being able to successfully grapple because the +athletics item i gave him made the difference

[warped orbit]

If people actually use the stuff you give them

Which also isn't always easy

[young chasm]

why wouldn't they

[warped orbit]

Oh that's another thing IMO
Make alchemical stuff last longer

Long durations make it much easier to use them

[solar storm]

That'd be a nice qol thing

[young chasm]

most consumables last pretty long already lol

[solar storm]

A lot of them have such short durations

[unborn rain]

Alchemical stuff getting scaling durations make Alchemists weird

As it means at higher levels Alchemists get a lot more Reagents

as instead of using a reagent a fight for elixirs, they eventually get to like using a reagent a day for them

[young chasm]

like im looking at a lot of the basic consumables that alchemists would be interested in

[warped orbit]

Especially 1 minute stuff is really awkward

[young chasm]

by the time you have moderate elixirs, its 10 minute durations

[unborn rain]

most last 1 minute at early levels, then 10 minutes then an hour

10 minutes mean you can keep using them until you rest

[solar storm]

its mostly the 1 minute ones but that's largely an early level pain point

[young chasm]

even 1 minute is a nice amount of time imo

[unborn rain]

Even 10 minutes can be rough depending on how much healing you need

[young chasm]

most combats that early aren't lasting 10 rounds

[young chasm]

wait what lol what combat is lasting 100 rounds

[dull egret]

Abombination Vaults

[young chasm]

unless you mean out of combat consumables

[unborn rain]

10 minutes is how long it takes to do literally any exploration action

[dull egret]

I need to slap as many /j as possible on that I need it known

[warped orbit]

10 minutes also basically requires you to prebuff

Which is still awkward

[unborn rain]

ime you're using exploration actions like repair and treat wounds after a lot of fights

[echo briar]

So apparently a new core starfinder deity will be announced in... a playtest adventure? https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sihw?Starfinder-Playtest-Product-Announcements#discuss

[limber comet]

I mean, Golarion nearly got nuked during the last 2e playtest

[echo briar]

Golarion nearly gets nuked every other month, core deities are almost never added

[limber comet]

Idk lmao

We'll see I guess

I wonder what (if anything) will replace Aucturn

[solar storm]

Yeah this is usually what does it

[turbid dagger]

There's an outer god egg on the edge of Golarion's star system, and its gonna hatch during this AP
So that's probably it lol

[heavy fulcrum]

yup

You’ll explore the station as a setting-shattering event occurs: the hatching of the planet Aucturn and the emergence of a new deity into the Starfinder core pantheon!

and its literally called "A Cosmic Birthday"

[echo briar]

I mean, they directly said that

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I did not read it first sorry
I guess I misunderstood the emphasis in the comment
It was the 'playtest adventure' bit that was important in your comment, not the 'new core deity'

[echo briar]

My thing is "really, this isn't a full AP?

[trail nova]

The "Political" situation on said egg planet is bad enough that Nylarthoep is uhhhh.... the best looking option.

[heavy fulcrum]

and from the description of the adventure itself
A nascent cosmic entity stirs deep within one of the Pact Worlds planets. To aid the god’s birth, its most devoted followers search the Ghost Levels of Absalom Station for a sufficient power source—a strange pocket dimension existing alongside the hub of the Pact Worlds. As the entity’s emergence sends ripples across space time, a group of heroes becomes trapped in the Ghost Levels! With dangerous creatures and ominous power surges threatening the station, the heroes must team up with the residents of Little Akiton to investigate these horrifying new foes, stop their meddling—and stay alive!

[trail nova]

(Political in quotation marks because nobody involved has a reasonable defintion of "playing nice"

[echo briar]

also, this is the lvl 1 adventure

[scenic patio]

Dead space brother moon vibes

Excited for starfinder 2ed

[turbid dagger]

Well, its not like your gonna be fighting the god
It seems more like your tussling with some cultists in the backrooms, and they are getting spurred into action by the egg hatching
Maybe the second one will involve it more directly

[scenic patio]

Probably saving it for full release

[rapid wagon]

yall think old starfinder adventures will be forward compatible? Doing a very long form run of horizons of the vast via pbp atm

wondering if it would make any sense at all to upate mid run or just keep running the older edition

[scenic patio]

Maybe, but doubtful

[unborn rain]

Probably as compatible as 1e and 2e for Pathfinder

[turbid dagger]

They're basically different games, just like PF1e and 2e
So yeah

[rapid wagon]

probably just stick to sf1e then

[turbid dagger]

You can import the plot but you'd have to rejigger all stats and mechanical aspects

[unborn rain]

You can also probably import some of the like design, when it comes to encounters. As they exist in similar design spaces

Although for a currently running thing just keeping with what you gots generally going to be vest