Pathfinder

[eager mountain]

goblin

( art from junker's delight )

[fossil temple]

adorable

[fossil temple]

Did they removed Minor Magic from Rogue?

[barren cipher]

looks like it

[fossil temple]

dang,
Why tho

[barren cipher]

redundancy from multiclass archetypes, probably

it's a bit more flexible i guess

[warped orbit]

it was kinda redundant with archetypes
and changing your keystat away from Dex was pretty much never worth it

[solar tendon]

I'd imagine they're either gonna give a proper second go at eldritch trickster in PC2 or not bother

[warped orbit]

it's possible we see a second take on class archetypes in Core 2 yeah

[solar tendon]

as it is, something not being reprinted does not make it illegal for play

pathbuilder hides it by default but it's part of the new character dialog

[unborn rain]

Class option which is illegal because it is bad instead of illegal because it's good

[fossil temple]

thank!

[dull egret]

From what I've heard of from my current GM: it's a good module concept that's executed pretty alright

but requires a lot of personal writing to be made great

baseline it is, kinda held down by the thing JMS was talking about

I won't spoil it because it can be done well but as it's written it is kinda dumb, even if it fits the premise well

It also keeps to the campaign promise of "less-combat than usual" damn well

which is a blessing

[fossil temple]

What about the ...magical school module one
With the depressed gnoll, it is good?

[dull egret]

This is the first I'm hearing of that

so I can't say much but I am rapidly looking that up

[warped orbit]

there's some talk about SoT upthread

[dull egret]

oh strength of thousands

[fossil temple]

Strength of Thousands! Yes that

[solar tendon]

she just has social anxiety

not really depressed

could a depressed person do this? *holds up rythmbone*

[fossil temple]

Damn that's sick

and, fair
But is SoT good overall?I heard is
Long

[warped orbit]

well it is a six book AP

[solar tendon]

it's as long as any other 1-20 ap

[warped orbit]

length is kinda of a given

[solar tendon]

it's well regarded. I liked what I ran

[fossil temple]

Yeah, mostly asking cuz if I decide to run is better to ask around because is a long shot

[dull egret]

I love the six book AP structure of paizo but, man

man does it lead to long runners

our Hell's Rebels game has taken a year and change to get to book 4

(then again that is also kinda due to us playing it in a way that the module doesn't fully expect, my character made the rebellion into a Full Blown Proper Rebellion and maxed every advantage possible in 1-3)

[surreal basin]

oh man I would love Player Core 2 revitalizing class archetypes

[clever cobalt]

what's the best 1e AP?

[dull egret]

I honestly kinda want to say Hell's Rebels?

At least from what little I know

at least from a player perspective there's been a lot of meat to chew on and barring one Slog Section it's paced well

even then the early slog is mostly due to A Lot of Stuff Happening

[fossil temple]

what's Hell's Rebels about?

[surreal basin]

being rebels in cheliax

[fossil temple]

pronounced CHEL-ee-ax

[turbid dagger]

A little late, but my thought is basically that Laughing Shadow is Eldritch Trickster Rogue
'sneaky backstabber with magic tricks'

[solar tendon]

yeah

[turbid dagger]

But it integrates the two better

[dull egret]

port town in Northern Cheliax suddenly gets taken over by a new military thrune dictator

[turbid dagger]

So ET is redundant really

[dull egret]

you guys decide now is the time to do some changes in management

after all getting involved in a protest

[fossil temple]

oh so basically "Fuck this Evil Monarchy" the 1-20lv campaign

[dull egret]

Yes

I like it because it assumes your party will be a Default Pathfinder Party

so you can get through it fighting every cop you see and essentially running an insurgency day 1

or you can be like our group and be the Deepest Cover until shit needs to pop off and play it like a complete secret society

I've really liked the secret society approach personally since it's shocking easy but very effective

easy in the sense of like, you don't need a 20 page notebook of every detail you need to keep hidden and from whom to pull it off

[fossil temple]

that does sound awesome

Seems fitting for my Kharn-like character that's currently in the

Vault

[dull egret]

It's also, IIRC, the only module with Vyre involved

[turbid dagger]

Hell's Rebels seems pretty dang cool yeah
I almost got to play in a 2e conversion of it 😔

[surreal basin]

Vyre?

[dull egret]

so if your GM wants to expand on the weird ancap port city with a lot of mysteries, they will

[dull egret]

City off the coast of Kintargo

[surreal basin]

oh nice

[dull egret]

it's like a fantasy Night City, to use the cyberpunk comparison

and also the uh

SETTING SPOILER:||BIRTHPLACE OF NORGORBER||

[fossil temple]

ancap WHAT

[dull egret]

||My GM plays Norgorber as essentially Sweeney Todd and played Vyre to be akin to that sort of London in terms of inequality, how people survive, and the weird rituals of the nobility||

[fossil temple]

gotta have to find it now, look what you did

[dull egret]

massively expanded on the content there, it was worth it

I'm genuinely sad it wasn't just the default setting lore it may be my favourite location now lol

[surreal basin]

Warpriest of Milani time

[dull egret]

heh

heheh

hell's rebel minor spoiler: ||it's a rebellion/cult in Cheliax, take a wild guess who the patron god is||

[surreal basin]

lmaoooo

makes sense

[dull egret]

my character is a Thrune from a purged family line (due to Demonic influence) who was shipped off to Kintargo young and adopted by a dock-running family

[surreal basin]

Alternatively: ninja who is an ex-member of the girls school spy academy

[dull egret]

who quickly became a criminal fixer than an Inquisitor of Pharasma once The Bad Guy moved in

and he had a drunken breakdown and just asked her for help

appearently no Thrune has just, tried avoiding damnation by Asking

[turbid dagger]

Iomedae

[fossil temple]

Cayden !

[dull egret]

Frighteningly similar to one of our party members actually

she's an adopted tiefling / child soldier-spy project of a noble family in the city

who are pretty much disgraced arms manufacturers

[turbid dagger]

The character I was planning on for that Hell's Rebels game was a Halfling Lunging Stance Fighter with a Bo Staff
Which they call their 'walking stick'

[dull egret]

you'll get milage out of that

though I suggest investing a little in profession or similar skills and making sure your GM'll let you use them for social stuff

[surreal basin]

oh uh

[dull egret]

Hell's Rebels is an AP where it pays to have some skill monkey ability

[surreal basin]

Maybe spoilers for the AP, need a clarifying question

[dull egret]

(says the Inquisitor player, but still)

[surreal basin]

||Is lady docur's school for girls FROM this AP??||

[dull egret]

YES

YES

DO THAT

||My character may have stolen from the Calistrians in the city in a bad deal and Lady Docur was keeping tabs on him for revenge/atonement because of it||

[surreal basin]

I'm probably never gonna play in a hells rebels AP but that is one of my favorite things in the setting

[dull egret]

it fucks

||really funny to have my character realise he was dealing with an equal-level schemer / fixer once he realised what that school was about||

[surreal basin]

oh wow yeah the entire kintargo gazeteer is on the pathfinder wiki

[dull egret]

massive spoilers

but yes, Kintargo is my favourite city besides Vyre

for these campaign reasons

[surreal basin]

||But yeah I wanna make an ex-schoolgirl ninja spy||

[dull egret]

that's a good concept

that fits perfectly

[surreal basin]

Although I would struggle to not make the most broken build I know how to make in pathfinder

which is the shurikin throwing ninja that makes like 10 attacks a turn lmao

[silver geyser]

Late here, but Curse of the Crimson Throne

[surreal basin]

weird question

how closely do yall stick to the RAW magic item rules surrounding wands, staves, and scrolls

IE you need to know the spell in the item to use it

or otherwise have and use the use magic item feat

[warped orbit]

have the spell on your list you mean?

[surreal basin]

yeah sorry

that

for my part, I allow anyone to use a wand without a check, any caster to use any staff spell, and anyone can use scrolls with a use magic item check, which is available without the feat

but I realize that's pretty extensive changes

[silver geyser]

The feat is a rather easy grab, so I'm on the side of RAW

[turbid dagger]

Man I'm looking forward to the next session of Kingmaker
We're doing Gradual Ability Boosts and Free Archetype so my Hobgoblin Fighter is gonna get 18 cha, Expert Intimidation off Marshal, and Intimidating Prowess
And our Ranger is doing Sniping Duo with me 😌

[surreal basin]

The change is mostly for my setting, where uhhhh

thats how those things work

anyone but a total magical blank can use a wand

and we just extend it to the APs we play for ease of use

[surreal basin]

that's fair, my thinking is it just becomes an 'always pick' feat

and I don't really like those

[silver geyser]

Ehhh. I didn't see a reason to take it with spellcasters available who can do it

If I'm one of the not major spell people, my actions are already spoken for in a fight

[surreal basin]

that's fair but wands are usually for extenuating circumstances

[silver geyser]

And if you have a caster with it on their list, it's easy to still use

Most of the common utility stuff is shared, iirc

[turbid dagger]

I'm kind of with mourge on this one
Like uhhhhh
Yes you need trick magic item to use wands and scrolls as a non caster
But also like
Why use a wand or scroll if you are not a caster, usually
Its a very niche need I think
That said I don't think easing the restrictions breaks the game either

[silver geyser]

I hate to say this, everything in my being is against it

[solar tendon]

honestly just hasn't really come up a whole lot

[silver geyser]

But we can let the caster keep their niche

They can have a thing that the martial takes extra work to do, even if it's only a little bit

[solar tendon]

but if your group is used to that play and quite good at taking advantage of those options then I can see how it could become a feat tax

but I think that's kinda an outlier

[silver geyser]

That's a Spiders Georg situation ye

[surreal basin]

oh yeah my group fuckin loves using items

(we have another houserule that makes them easier to use but I think ill get beat up for it)

I will still mention it

non-weapons/shields don't take any actions to draw as long as they would take only one action RAW

[warped orbit]

that does make using items a lot easier definitely

I am generally in favor of drawing stuff being easier though

I've been thinking of basically giving people a few "quickslots" to put items in, and you can draw those for free

[surreal basin]

so that was our intial idea

and then we were like "you only get so much bulk of storage outside of backpacks and storage devices, might as well just treat that space as quickdraw"

plus it rewards strength

[turbid dagger]

Can you just use items off the belt without hands economy
Because that honestly sounds lovely

[surreal basin]

Yeah we mostly ignore hand Econ for it as well

[turbid dagger]

With that I can see Trick Magic Item becoming much more 'mandatory' yeah

[solar storm]

I’ve never messed with that rule much but also I’ve rare run into the issue with having wands no one can use

[young chasm]

late but yeah i stick to RAW running magic items

havent encountered any problems yet

[dull egret]

This speeds stuff up immensely, it shouldn't be too hard on the GM though IMO

casting shit's already an action, you still kinda need to put stuff away, and if you're one-handing a weapon and using a buckler on the other hand you gotta lose one or the other anyhow

overall you should be fine

[turbid dagger]

So is +11 to Intimidation Demoralize as likely to crit an enemy's Will DC as a +11 strike is to crit their AC on average?
Like, do skills/saves and to-hit scale similarly?
Trying to math out stuff for my intimidation fighter

[solar storm]

It's... somewhat better iirc

But comparable

Since its vs Will DC

[turbid dagger]

Nice
I'm gonna be a crit machine then

[solar storm]

iirc its generally slightly more powerful because saves don't have the same item bonuses

[turbid dagger]

I see
And like
A dog or bandit isn't gonna have a high will save really

[solar storm]

It can depend but yeah

[scenic patio]

I want to finish up some home brew stuff but sadly I am waiting for both the war of immortals and new updated monster book

[true delta]

https://tenor.com/view/berserk-gif-9205840641760513833

Pictured: high will save dog

Maybe, idk

[solar storm]

There's some surprises

Like Swamp Giants having a really good will save

[eager mountain]

eldritch trickster was redudant or doesnt work if your gm uses free archetype and its often kind of a trap option

[eager mountain]

nah they just decided to take it out completely.

[fossil temple]

That's fair, was thinking Minor Magic could be a useful option if you want some support cantrips.

[solar tendon]

is there a source for this cause afaik they haven't talked about it

[light gyro]

running book 4 of strength of thousands at the moment. ||i forgot that paizo said it'd be a core god that dies soon, so i imagined a scenario where Walkena gets offed and how funny it'd be if i incorporated that into my campaign. negotiations suddenly off the table, what the hell happens now||

[eager mountain]

they talked about it on a dev stream before reelase

that the magic rogue archetype was taken out becuase its redudant with free archetype

[solar tendon]

ah fair

ty!!

[solar tendon]

exactly one of the core gods are dying but several non-core gods are dying!

[light gyro]

uh oh

more book 4 spoilers ||i think i could salvage the campaign, i'd just need to figure out how to replace the current chapter, then change the next chapter to be explicitly about helping the new sun-god ascend||

||then worknesh could still be an avatar of walkena, just as an extra-powerful exemplar||

[clever cobalt]

I think that regardless of who dies in War of Immortals, ||the sun will at least go out for a time.||

||Since that seems to be pretty likely||

[eager mountain]

idk ...mabye ?

the sun of golarion ( and most suns ) have a portal to the forge of creation.

so im not sure that it would.

but who knows

tho I think it would be a cool scene atleast

[clever cobalt]

Forge of Creation?

[eager mountain]

positive energy plane

[silver geyser]

Positive Energy Plane

[eager mountain]

thats what its called now

negative is now " the Void "

@clever cobalt

theres a portal to the creation's forge at the heart of most stars

if not all stars

[light gyro]

'sealing off the sun' sounds like a pretty strong reason for a god war

[eager mountain]

atleast if my cosmology is correct

[silver geyser]

It is correct

It's a mixed portal, part Fire and part Forge

[eager mountain]

makes you wonder waht happens when a star goes supernova OR dies

is the star BECUASe of the portal ?

or is the portal because of the star?

[silver geyser]

Who can say?

[eager mountain]

i wonder if the wizard orbiting the sun knows

[silver geyser]

He just wanted privacy

[sinful gyro]

Fuck EVERYONE I'm going to THE SUN

[eager mountain]

seriously tho theres 1e lore that theres a wizard in the tower.. ORBITING the sun

like just near it

[frank crystal]

Wizard Dyson tower

[eager mountain]

starfinder just has cities floating in the sun

[rapid wagon]

yeah theres a whole ass place

i thin kan adventure takes place there too

[eager mountain]

sun divers, yeah

[surreal basin]

That’s basically exactly it

Canonically he goes to the sun cause he’s tired of politics

[fossil temple]

...AnarchoSolis?

[fossil temple]

I love how pathfinder has , like
Skills that is ONLY for flavour , like the Rogue feat that lets you use playing cards as daggers and darts

[unborn rain]

Playing cards are cheaper than daggers, and everyone plays really close attention to whether they've bought enough throwing dags

[fossil temple]

But can you add runes to your cards?

[unborn rain]

I think you add the runes to the deck

Which would make it free up a slot you'd otherwise spend on returning

[fossil temple]

huh...
Add a rune to the deck holder of sorts?

Could double as a Tarot reader that attack with it's enchanted cards

[warped orbit]

yes

explicitly so

otherwise it would extremely suck

[fossil temple]

But is worth a whole feat slot for it?
Otherwise you would be kinda stuck with Dart stat and Dagget stat

[warped orbit]

if I could do one change to Fane's Fourberie, which would make it kinda functional as a build thing, is to make them count as shuriken instead of daggers

[fossil temple]

Yeah that would help

[warped orbit]

that way it does actually save you needing a Returning rune or Thrower's Bandolier, without also requiring you get Quick Draw

[rapid wagon]

question

if you were making a Shugoki from For Honor in pathfinder 2

what would your class and ancestry picks be

[clever cobalt]

Whats/who's Shugoki

[rapid wagon]

"We are far from home, we samurai. Each new land teaches us new things. Each new ally makes us stronger. The shugoki: once our guardians, they have become as family. And what more fierce protectors could we ask for? The kanabo is an unreasonable weapon; clumsy, dangerous... unless you possess the strength of a demon and an unbreakable will."

The Shugoki appear slow and cumbersome. Don’t let that fool you -- they possess the strength of a giant and an indomitable will. It takes incredible fortitude to be the guardians of your people. You must defend them at all costs and put their needs above your own. This has never been an issue for the Shugoki. Their weapon of choice seems unwieldy, but in their hands, it is as deadly and precise as any blade.

[clever cobalt]

Part of me wants to say "wait for Tian Xia"

But uhhhhh

I think a Fighter with a Maul would work fine

Not sure about ancestry; probably human

[unborn rain]

giant rage Barbarian I'd say

[clever cobalt]

That also works

Though I'd also say go for a maul

[unborn rain]

For like giant weapon, unbreakable will and strength of a demon

[clever cobalt]

Maul seems like the best substitute for a massive kanabo

[unborn rain]

Greatclub

like a Kanabo is a kind of heavy Club, so why not just use the big club profile?

[clever cobalt]

Could also work

Forgot that existed

[barren cipher]

because greatclubs are bad

[clever cobalt]

Also that

[barren cipher]

long hammer is not bad either

if you want to lean towards the spikier end of things

[rapid wagon]

hmm hmm i do like that idea for barb

[frank crystal]

I mean it’s a maul with a slightly lower damage die for backswing

Which is like, alright as a tag

Not the best but it does do stuff

[barren cipher]

i suppose with the save there's a bit less gap between the crit specs

[turbid dagger]

Yeah back swing is neat on a twohander imo
Helps with the worst case scenario of a two-handed build
Which is 'fuck I missed'

[tough perch]

i'd go with reskinned maul if i were to use fighter, greatclub if giant barb

[vital kiln]

Need some help with a Starfinder build

Trying to figure out how I could feasibly make a good sword and pistol build at level 3, y'all got any tips for feats, classes, etc.?

[turbid dagger]

Terrible news everyone
The party has just learned my hobgoblin fighter is 22
(Hobgoblins reach maturity at 14 so he is basically middle aged)

[silver geyser]

Hah, old

[carmine egret]

https://cdn.paizo.com/a7d62ac8-7f03-00ef-f1f0-83fb8bf332e2/6f2c68ec-807f-4351-aa52-006f3f31d81f/PrimalAdamantineDragonDesign_2000.jpg love this fuckin lad

[worthy stump]

oh no, they're gonna call him a boomer

[scenic patio]

I hope occult dragons fluctuate between goofy and spooky

Never mind just found out about the Fortune dragon looks bad ass

[turbid dagger]

He's more afraid they won't get the dog years thing and the human ranger will start calling him little bro or something

[solar tendon]

tbf isnt the human age in this case 16

its like barely a difference

compared to like. goblin

its 15 even

[turbid dagger]

Hobgoblins mature quickly, and most can walk, talk, and hold a weapon by the time they are 1 year old, reaching adolescence by the age of 8 to 12 and adulthood around 14. Hobgoblins typically live up to 70 years of age.

Humans reach physical adulthood around the age of 15, though mental maturity occurs a few years later. A typical human can live to be around 90 years old.

The text is fairly similar but the tone of the two feels different to me

-20 years less maximum lifespan
-only 1 year less to adulthood, tho hobgobs don't have the 'mental maturity' bit
-Speaking and walking by 1 year old

That all implies to me that hobgoblins are meant to mature/age notably faster than humans

[solar tendon]

speaking and walking at 1 isnt like

insane

faster yes

[turbid dagger]

Again the phrasing makes me think they're like
Somewhat coordinated
At that point
Rather than toddlers
But idk, it could go either way

[solar tendon]

its very vague

but I think given like

every ancestry has a maturation age

given

I would assume that they're meant to represent the same rough stage

hold a weapon is very fast actually

but that would make their adolesence kinda delayed in a way

[turbid dagger]

If they only get a year on humans growing up but die 20 years earlier thats a scam 😭

[solar tendon]

kinda

but its like

dwarves lose 10 years but gain centuries

elves lose 5 years and gain 510 haha

i think its partially a like

cultural thing

[turbid dagger]

Well I knew that dwarves were cheating already
They get Second Toughness

[solar tendon]

like elvish emotional maturity is at 100 but thata by snooty elf standards

goblins are adults at 7-8 and then only make it to 50

which is an alright deal actually

sprites mature at the same rate as humans and then live like a thousand years so thats probably the overall winner

ghoran are basically 'born' mature but 'die' at 20

which makes me think about how cool it would be to play an old ghoran and halfway through a campaign do the seed thing and then slightly respec and play a new incarnation

[worthy stump]

yeah, ghorans 'die' every 20 years, but as long as their seed is planted again, they're effectively immortal. which makes for some very cool character concepts

[turbid dagger]

Well
Its some weird half reincarnation really, iirc Ghorans kind of disassociate from their prior selves despite inheriting the memories

[solar tendon]

mm

[worthy stump]

every reincarnation brings some minor changes and loss of ancient memories, so they gradually become different people over the years, yeah

[solar tendon]

basically slight change in personhood and a new ... uh

whats the plant version of meatsack

[worthy stump]

chlorosack?

[silver geyser]

Fiberstem

[solar tendon]

ghoran are mostly flesh

due to their origins

there isnt really a word another word for plant flesh specifically

[silver geyser]

Pulp?

[solar tendon]

ooh

pulp

pulp is good

ghoran have a hard rind for most of their skin

so its less sack and more. box? nut?

shell

[worthy stump]

pulpshell...

[turbid dagger]

Its their fruit, really

They're a big apple that walks around

[solar tendon]

orange that learnt to hit da bricks

[eager mountain]

lol my goblin pirates exemplar doesn’t age becuase she used a wish to become immortal

[solar tendon]

loophole

[eager mountain]

She can still die tho

In fact she died once

And was revived

And like she literally doesn’t believe she can die

[solar tendon]

my goblin alchemist is 10 and she has a degree

[eager mountain]

Mines like 12-16 I think

But that’s just Giblet the maw, eater of things ….

When your snacks mysteriously vanish, it was her

( going for a goblin hero-god vibe)

Since all goblin hero-gods are like 9th level goblins in p1e

Basically like folk heros

I think one of the hero-gods I cited once in game was a goblin named gleebus. Who could hold his breath for a really long time and he filled his pants with rocks and went into the ocean. Some say he’s still down there

[ionic pier]

I just found out about Battlezoo Eldamon and gosh

It looks great

[worthy stump]

it's neat, yeah. all the Battlezoo stuff is pretty good

[clever cobalt]

Love Battlezoo dragons

[vital kiln]

Quick Starfinder question, does the -5 penalty to Strength and Dexterity-based checks apply to attack rolls or are attack rolls their own separate thing and not affiliated with checks?

Trying to make a dude with a few different weapons and I keep running into encumberment issues

Which like, yeah, I know I only really need one, but it'd be cool and thematic to have them since this is supposed to be a former war machine that rejected his intended purpose and went to go bounty hunting

[surreal basin]

I believe that it would apply to attack rolls yes

Being encumbered is real bad

Oh!

I lied

[surreal basin]

In starfinder specifically attack rolls are not checks

Neither are saves

Basically everything else IS a check tho

[turbid dagger]

I'm fairly certain I know the answer, but snagging strike doesn't actually occupy the hand needed during its duration right
So you can have sword + hand, snagging strike, then still do Dueling Parry

Or Disarming Twist, or Dual Handed Assault, and so on

[vital kiln]

Thought not, good to double check though. Thanks Emily.

[surreal basin]

Correct

[trim grotto]

hey what are some ways to be permanently large

[warped orbit]

Certain ancestries mostly

[worthy delta]

Is the official Pathfinder Discord server worth joining if you're someone who wants to get a better grasp on how the system works and plays? Is the community there decent?

[turbid dagger]

Lizardfolk, Conrasu, and Automaton get ways to do it in later ancestry feats, off the top of my head
After a point Giant Barbarian is essentially permanently large inasmuch as they become large when Raging
Come Howl Of The Wild Centaurs and Minotaurs will default to Large

[trim grotto]

hell yeah

[turbid dagger]

Oh also iirc Beastkin versatile heritage gets a permaenlarge feat so any ancestry can do it so long as they consent to being a furry

[trim grotto]

OH right i almost forgot about that

[young chasm]

they're helpful and welcoming but i've always had a weird vibe from them ngl. feels like people there are quick to show their mastery of the system by correcting people or being overly pedantic

[worthy delta]

Hmm, thank you

[young chasm]

that's a purely anecdotal experience though

so ymmv

[barren cipher]

i’m not a great fan, it’s not very well moderated

[rustic cape]

Hey, real quick, anyone have any good ideas for a primal 1st-rank spell pick for a champion?

[turbid dagger]

My first thought is just plain Heal

[rustic cape]

I actually have Heal already from divine >_>

[turbid dagger]

Protector Tree and Shattering Gem are also neat

[rustic cape]

I have Oracle dedication in my class feats and Sorcerer dedication (Phoenix) in my free archetype

[warped orbit]

Bless

unless you already have someone giving out status bonuses regularly

[rustic cape]

We do have a Bless-er in the party

But still, I guess Bless for Divine and Heal for Primal looks good

[surreal basin]

I would go protection for divine

+1 ac for a minute is pretty great

[rustic cape]

Hm, makes sense

[kind oracle]

definitely not from what i've heard happened on MLK day

[thorny berry]

That's some ominous context.

[kind oracle]

yeah they @ everyone for MLK day on accident

that brought out the chuds

they didn't bother to clean up until hours after

[turbid dagger]

I don't think it was an accident to @ everyone, they do that regularly for holidays and such
But I can imagine it was a disaster in the general channels yeah

[worthy delta]

Oh dear, definitely staying away from there if it's that poorly moderated

[turbid dagger]

It's not CHUDopolis or anything
They got the spirit they're just uh
However that quote ends

[hidden raptor]

I think it starts with they're a little confused

[turbid dagger]

Yeah that

I've met some real good people there and played some real good games but I'm not a Poster there like I am here
Nowadays I keep all the channels but the LFP one muted

[vital kiln]

I didn't notice anything, but I might not have been around to notice anything

[young chasm]

burning hands, fear, fleet step, feather fall, longstrider, magic fang, grease

if you have a lower spell DC then definitely something like fleet step, feather fall, or longstrider

[young chasm]

i remember that lmfao

im glad im not the only one whose had issue w their moderation team i guess

about the only channel i found useful in there was the rules channel cause there's some rule lawyers that basically camp that channel so i can get niche answers on the fly during session

but uhh i left a while ago it aint worth it

[rustic cape]

Am I right in thinking that Rogue Archetype is the best way to get extra skill advancements?

[sinful gyro]

I think the real issue was that the translation bot also spammed the ping when people replied to the post with flags

Which caused the translation bot to post the post again, and again, and again

The moderation is like, fine. They could be more active but often its just more show boasting and shouting and people than actually banning ime

[clever cobalt]

Because I'm on an Eat the Reich kick, I'm thinking of a Dhampir Gunslinger (or perhaps a Duskwalker Gunslinger, who occupy a similar niche aesthetically despite the differences)

not sure which subclass works best though

[unborn rain]

Liberator paladin maybe

It's not very powerful but is vibes

[clever cobalt]

True

There is one design I kinda vibe with in EtR but unfortunetly I think it's one of the Nazis

among other designs, of course

Regardless I think a Dhampir Liberator of Pharasma could work?

[unborn rain]

yeah that's a nazi they've got a iron cross on the hammer

[clever cobalt]

oof

One problem with Kirkby's art is that everyone is stylish

and I do mean everyone

I have a pet theory that the reason Hitler isn't drawn in the book is because he'd accidnetally look too cool due to Kirkby's innate style

[unborn rain]

I think an elysian god might work better for the vibes honestly

Pharasma is not very pro-Eating the Reich I think, she just wants you to kill them without the eating part

[clever cobalt]

Fair

who're the Elysian Gods?

hmm

do you think Arazni could theoretically work?

[unborn rain]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Planes.aspx?ID=16

meant just gods that live in Elysium

[clever cobalt]

ah

[unborn rain]

Arazni seems like it would work well

Especially with the whole, as a oppressed person you should fucking kill your opressor and you don't have to be polite about that thing

[clever cobalt]

yeah true

Eat the Reich but set in Geb

Elite Knights of Lastwall taskforce sent to take out the Blood Lords

using Alkenstar (and Numeria) tech

[solar tendon]

arazni for sure

I dont think pharasma super cares about dhampir necessarily but she isnt really chill with any undead regardless of their actions

or circumstances of their undeath

[unborn rain]

Pharsma is neutral because she hates all undead whether their good or evil

[solar tendon]

arazni would like. eat the reich herself she is the reich eater

she's technically a lich not a vampire though I guess

[clever cobalt]

Former Lich technically but yeah

[hidden raptor]

how do you recover from being a lich

[clever cobalt]

Becoming a god out of spite

[solar tendon]

becoming a god is like

a really good get out of jail free card

wanna stop being an evil lich? become a god!
wanna stop being a demon? become a god!!!

wanna stop being an evil god? become a god again!!!!

just gotta have an ego stronger than destiny or somethin idk

and worshippers

[clever cobalt]

Rereading LO Absalom

I like the implication that ||Gyr didn't get abducted or anything, he literally just left for Cassomir to live in his mansion and didn't tell anyone (aside from Trelliun, sorta)||

[eager mountain]

lol pharasma isnt opposed to canabalism

...if your living

[unborn rain]

True

[solar tendon]

pharasma is very pro eat the reich in terms of the action of it

but very anti in the implied (you are eating because you are a vampire)

[solar tendon]

my dad is gonna be runnin outlaws of alkenstar but we only have 3 players

so options choosing like how to deal w/ that. adjusting encounters prohibitive workload

Im thinking just being a level up

but we're also considering npc party member

idk if Im into that though

[unborn rain]

t

That messes up the xp scale by quite a bit

like changes from 5 xp to 40

from being a level up

[solar tendon]

huh

[young chasm]

yeah it's a really good way to acquire skills

[solar tendon]

level 3 party vs moderate 3 encounter is 80xp, level 4 vs moderate 3 is 60 xp

this is the same as the character adjustment for a moderate encounter, being 20xp

and Ive seen positive experiences in running aps with the characters at one level higher than expected is the thing

raises the question of loot a bit though

[solar tendon]

yeah I think thats just how the character adjustment math works anyway

[unborn rain]

after doing some tests in a encounter calc it actually does add up you're right

[solar tendon]

its just adjusting the party to the encounter instead of the other way around

interesting

[eager mountain]

uhhh I think what I did was like take off a quater of alot of enemies health even tho i had like 6 players

5-6*

[thorny berry]

idle build thought: scoundrel rogue/gunslinger PIstol Twirling with a chain sword and slide pistol

probably with Skirmish Strike and one of the 10-foot-step ancestries

and drifter reload naturally

[turbid dagger]

Would skirmish strike even work with something like Elf Step
IIRC it's a Bespoke action

[warped orbit]

it has Step as a subordinate action

so it wouldn't work with Elf Step

but it does work with things that modify Step directly

though I don't recall if there's anything like that in ancestries

I mostly remember it on Tiger Stance

[turbid dagger]

I have a related question- you think a tiger monk could elf step 20 feet
Wondering if the step 5 feet bit is meant to cut that or if it's just awkward wording for the Step action

[warped orbit]

yeah they would

you Step 10 feet in Tiger Stance, and Elf Step makes you Step twice

[turbid dagger]

This is the bit that concerns me in Elf Step's text
But I agree the RAI is probably 20 foot step

Especially since its not too far from like
Mobility, or Shielded Stride

[thorny berry]

oh whoops, I thought elf step worked like the tiger stance thing

[warped orbit]

yeah it makes you Step twice instead of one big one

[clever cobalt]

Where do I have someone come from in Golarion to justify giving them a Cajun accent

[silver geyser]

Anywhere tbh.

But I'd pin that on Ustalav.

The county with Illmarsh specifically.

[turbid dagger]

Sodden Lands

[silver geyser]

Best answer might actually be the Shackles.

[turbid dagger]

Shackles are probably the best pick yeah

I've been playing Hunt Showdown so Lousiana But Fucked Up is on the mind

[clever cobalt]

Louisiana but Fucked Up is a fun aesthetic

[rapid wagon]

So if I went metal kineticist or metal/ earth, would I be a Frontliner who relied on magical ranged attacks?

[warped orbit]

sort of

depends a bit on what Impulses you take

[frank crystal]

That’s what I am with that set up

But yah it does depend on your impulse choices

That’s just a very obvious way to build that kinda kineticist

[solar thorn]

What the heck

[frank crystal]

Sometimes the dice just be like that

[rapid wagon]

Hmm so in broad terms, would you say a metal kineticist would fit into a party of a rogue and a champion with one or two more question marks

As a magical element

[warped orbit]

hmmm
depends on what you want out "magic"

a Kineticist will not be able to give the kind of utility a caster does

you have spell like abilities, but only a few of them

[rapid wagon]

Hmm OK got it

[turbid dagger]

I'd say metal kineticist works fine with rogue and champion
You've got 'dagger dude', 'beef dude', and you kind of fill a niche between 'bow dude' and 'blaster caster'
You do not do utility really at all compared to proper spell users but you have broadly the same AOE damage capability

[rapid wagon]

So knowing I have possibly at least one question mark, I'm definitely still occupying a useful niche

[warped orbit]

oh yeah you'll still be useful for sure

[rapid wagon]

Just not the one usually occupied by traditional spellcasters

[warped orbit]

I just wouldn't say to expect a Kineticist to work that similar to a caster in function

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, I'd say the best possible class to fill that question mark is like
Bard
Loads of utility, not as much blast as most other casters

[frank crystal]

Yah metal and earth kineticist have great AOE, so they’re similar to spellcasters in that regard

But in terms of utility they don’t do much spellcasters can

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I'd definitely says it FEELS more like a martial
You aren't fragile, you have good attack rolls, you don't really have any resources

[eager mountain]

ah man i wish I could do a fuckin cajun accent

I play a elf kineticist from an underground swamp

[turbid dagger]

So folks
Should I do Monk, Magus, or Thaumaturge for Abomination Vaults
Thinking Dromaar Elf for Monk, Automaton (if allowed) for Magus, and Catfolk for Thaum

[limber comet]

That's a tough choice tbh

Imagine personally partial to Thaum

[young chasm]

depending on your choice for thaumaturge

that class shines in ab vaults

[limber comet]

Thaum is just a really good all arounder

[fossil temple]

gonna try to run Hell's Rebels, any tips?

[eager mountain]

uhhhh

throw bricks ?

[fossil temple]

and molotovs?

[lost bluff]

Molotovs tied to bricks

[fossil temple]

for that aerodynamics right

[lost bluff]

I was thinking the bricks breaks initial defenses and the molotov has an easier time igniting whatever's beneath but yeah that too

[fossil temple]

I think I made a mistake
Uuuhn
Is Hell's Rebels for 1e or 2e?

[sinful gyro]

1e

[fossil temple]

https://tenor.com/view/yoshi-dead-death-mario-stairs-gif-25001313

[sinful gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/ninchijoufigurinha-gif-20115019

[fossil temple]

WELP
uUUHN
Aside from strength of a thousand, any other 1-20 adventure you guys recommend?
For 2e

[sinful gyro]

Bloodlords?

If you wanna do evil stuff

Kingmaker is fun but can be a lot of work to run

You can also do a 1-10 that leads into a 11-20 with Stolen Fate

[fossil temple]

oh wow kingmaker is 2e?

[sinful gyro]

Yup

It got a conversion officially

And has foundry support

It was origonally 1e

[fossil temple]

oh nice.
when you say 'a lot of work' what you mean by that

[sinful gyro]

Well the kingdom management side requires a lot of input from the GM

And also it's quite open ended

[fossil temple]

Oh i see, frick
Any others you recommend ?

[sinful gyro]

So the ones not talked about so far for 1-20 are

Age of Ashes which was pf2e first adventure and has tuning issues cos of it

Extinction Curse I've heard can be good but don't marry yourself to the circus theme cos the book doesn't

Very classic save the world adventure

[fossil temple]

ah i see , not very 8/10

[sinful gyro]

Not sure what you mean

But I hear it's good if you go into it with that knowledge

[fossil temple]

oh good!

[surreal basin]

Kingmaker also has a bunch of issues that there are community fixes before

Like late game math being just deadass broken

[fossil temple]

deadass broken? Can you give an example?

[silver geyser]

Kingdoms get ridiculous

[clever cobalt]

in what way?

like, "the kingdoms break everything in favor of the players"?

[silver geyser]

Basically

You can easily configure things so it's essentially a source of near infinite money

[clever cobalt]

Fun

[fossil temple]

With enough corruption you can always get infinite money, so is realistic

[heavy fulcrum]

oh its not even that

its just really easy to wind up with vast amounts of resources, literally making money faster than you can spend it

[fossil temple]

Time to build useless solid gold statues them

[young chasm]

there's some good APs you can string together to make a 1-20

abomination vaults 1-10 > stolen fates 11 - 20

but outside of that pf2e is lacking some proper 1-20s. mostly bc they're ridiculously long and hard to make

and paizo's gone on record saying they enjoy making shorter campaigns more

[dull egret]

they're also probably vastly easier to write a fun story out of

the 1-20s are fun but the frequent Random Subplot / "here's the 'real' plot" reveals to keep the pacing up can be a problem

[fossil temple]

yeah I can imagine

[clever cobalt]

There are actually some ties that can connect AV to SF as well (notably the Tarot-expy motif in some of AV stuff)

Which I believe is intentional

[turbid dagger]

Just adapt it to 2e
Seriously tho uhhhh
Extinction Curse is the one I like the most, other than SOT which you asked to exclude
Kingmaker is nice from what I've played of it but there's kingdom stuff and hexploration which is not everybody's vibe

[fossil temple]

And Gatewalkers?

[turbid dagger]

Gate walkers is 1 to 11
Bizarrely
Very bizarrely
That's about all I know about it, that it feels more high level than it is

[fossil temple]

You got me interested in the first Bizarrely

[turbid dagger]

Oh it's also got lots of deviant feat stuff so if you wanna play with that maybe look at it

[fossil temple]

very interesting

[clever cobalt]

unfortunetly it's a kinda disjointed adventure that ironically feels cut short

[fossil temple]

Even with 3 whole parts?
Dang

[rustic cape]

Gatewalkers was absolutely planned as a 11-20 and then changed over at the last minute

The stakes are very, very much high-level stakes

[sinful gyro]

For reference, a 1-20 is 6 parts

So it being 3 parts is expected for a 1-10

[rustic cape]

I’m in a Gatewalkers game and I’m enjoying it but it definitely feels like I should be level 14 right now, not 4

[fossil temple]

oh
How are you guys surviving

[fossil temple]

understandable

[trail nova]

The actual monsters are scaled, but not the story

[warped orbit]

yeah I've heard a lot that Gatewalkers feels weirdly high stakes for a low level AP

[fossil temple]

ooh i see

[rustic cape]

Like the first major boss is ||the slenderman a fey lord who wants to kill all elves||

You fight them at level 2

[unborn rain]

Shoot dang

that's a miss match

[rustic cape]

Again, enjoying it

But the level range feels off

[fossil temple]

.
That-
Sure as heck don't feel like a lv2 enemy, like
A crocodile is a lv2 enemy

[unborn rain]

A crocodile is a level six enemy

because they're big

[warped orbit]

Hippos are level 5 btw 😛

[heavy fulcrum]

a level 2 enemy is like A Soldier or A Wolf

[fossil temple]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=84 >:V

[solar tendon]

we fought a named crocodile who was level 6

got good at stealth. must've had rogue levels

[unborn rain]

The Crocodile was level 8, we fought him at level 6

[warped orbit]

Damn, that's a badass crocodile

[fossil temple]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=85 there is crocodile² too

[turbid dagger]

What are some good Talismans past level 1?
Thinking about Talisman Esoterica Thaum
Potency Crystal seems a shoe in at early levels but after that its all shit like
'if you crit fail to grab an edge, fail instead'

[warped orbit]

Retrieval Prism is evergreen
though maybe not for Thaum I guess

[turbid dagger]

Could be useful in combination with Scroll Thaumaturgy
Which I also plan on taking because Thaum has some wack ass niche class feats

And I may as well just get tons of free shit instead

[warped orbit]

Malleable Clay is also a good one, but again probably not that useful for the Thaum themselves

Ghostbane Fulu

[turbid dagger]

This is for AbomVaults so alas out of my level range

[warped orbit]

Owlbear Claw, if you have weapons with a good crit spec

[turbid dagger]

Currently planning on a temple sword so so-so
Fear Gem seems pretty cool, Intimidating Strike a few times each day

[warped orbit]

Fear Gem is also solid, yeah

[silver geyser]

Fear Gem got mileage in my crew

Handed it to the fighter

[fossil temple]

Hey so 👏
Is there any good reason for a full caster, like, let's say, psychic, to wear heavy armor?

[warped orbit]

well, wanting to have good AC presumably

assuming you have proficiency somehow

[turbid dagger]

Armor Prof + Sentinel Dedication (in that order) gives you, iirc, Heavy Armor that will scale with your (fairly bad) unarmored defense scaling, going up to expert at 13
So you'll get a little bit more AC and won't need dex as bad

It will be an improvement in survivability for sure, I was tinkering around with a Dragon Sorceror in heavy armor a while back

[fossil temple]

yeah, so I can rely on Bulwark and dump dex right?

[warped orbit]

yeah

do still need Str though

[fossil temple]

I was thinking in how to make a Thousand Son in pathfinder

[turbid dagger]

I know very little about 40k 😔
That said uhhhhh
Barricade Buster Starlit Span Heavy Armor Magus 👀

Human, unconventional weaponry at 1, sentinel at 2

(investing in int as a magus is a myth so you can afford to do dex and str)

[fossil temple]

oh my god Barricade Buster Magus?!
tell me MORE

Also uuhn
Thousand Suns are Psychic Arcane studying nerds in Heavy armor

that got fucked over by the elder god of trickery and turned into energy/dust

[surreal basin]

bweh

hello

probably just psychics with the sentinel dedication

psychic is a good enough analouge for psykers especially with unleash psyche letting you hurt yourself

[turbid dagger]

It might actually be mechanically synergistic too if you roll up with Imaginary Weapon

.....Though until we get any sort of remaster psychic I think Imaginary Weapon has some harsh competition with Gouging Claw and Ignition now

[warped orbit]

Imaginary is still very strong

especially with Spell Swipe

[fossil temple]

will keep in mind, thanks :3c

[frank crystal]

Was monk in the remaster?

[warped orbit]

I don't think so?

which means they'll probably be in Player Core 2

[rustic cape]

They’ll be in core 2, yeah

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[thorny berry]

I feel like core 2 has most of the likely spicier reworks, will be pretty curious to see it

[warped orbit]

I'm very curious to see if we get anything more substantial for Alchemist

[frank crystal]

I’m pretty sure they mentioned Alchemist as one of the more substantial reworks

[surreal basin]

It’ll certainly be something

[rapid wagon]

is alchemist no fun atm?

[frank crystal]

It’s

Weird

I know people who do like it

I don’t

But it definitely has a niche

[rapid wagon]

does planar binding a kineticist stop them from using their gate?

or whatever the ability might be to lock a creature out of other planes

because presumably those sigils and rituals exist

[surreal basin]

Probably not

[thorny berry]

general consensus is 'mechanically strong if played exactly correctly, easy to play 'wrong' and also has much of its strength bound up in portions of its kit that many people don't find enjoyable'

[solar storm]

I think is something fun is really hard to evaluate

[rapid wagon]

is it one of those situations where something like a thaumaturge approaches having the "tool for the job" with a more interesting mechanical abstraction?

[solar storm]

It's very complicated and wants you to pre-plan

The "alchemist spell list" is bigger than the arcane spell list and heavily rewards pre-buffing immediately before a fight

So for people who want to make a lot of weird little things and do their homework and such its a rewarding class

And if you just want to deal dps without a degree in Pathfinder then maybe skip it

[turbid dagger]

Basically the deal is that its mechanically strong but its mechanically strong in an even more 'box of tools'-y way than casters
You don't really do a lot compared to other classes, you just have Solutions to Problems in your little box of potions
People drink your weird goop, get swole, and you stand back and watch and maybe huck a bomb
I've always somewhat facetiously called Vanican casters a cabinet full of grenades and/or health potions the rest of the party lugs around but its far closer to being literal in the alchemists case

[frank crystal]

Hmm, other then a basic “redirect an attack coming to an ally to them,” what do y’all think would be some cool actions for a bodyguard to have?

Magical or not

[silver geyser]

Shield Other

Shield block for an ally

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s another good one

[rapid wagon]

Opinion question, is it cooler to start as an undead or become an undead in a blood lords campaign?

Totally subjective, but just wondering on perspectives

[turbid dagger]

Its a little awkward starting as an undead at all due to how its handled mechanically
Unless you are interested in being a skeleton

[warped orbit]

IIRC it mentions letting people start with the undead archetypes and just locking it in as your L2 feat

similar to class archetypes

but generally, having negative healing is very useful in Blood Lords since positive healing is banned

though you get an opportunity to gain negative healing fairly early on from what I hear

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Becoming an undead is very uhhh

Oh man bloodlords is hard to talk about

I’d just start as undead

[turbid dagger]

I think I'm cooking with this thaum
Merchant background, gets me bargain hunter, gets me extra 2 GP so I can get my weapon, my armor, my adventurers kit AND a candlecap
Catfolk so I can see in the dim light just fine, hands free on demand waterproof illumination 😌
My wis is uh
-1
But whats a little bit of phantasmal killer crit fails between friends

I could get it higher but I really want +2 dex so I can wear Hide instead of a Breastplate
Not for any sane reason I just think breastplates are lame and a big leather and fur coat is cooler

Oh, though it does save enough gold to allow me to get that candlecap
That's def why I did that

Can't wait to be
Uh
Informed I didn't make it into the abom vaults game most likely really

[worthy delta]

You can always save your thaumaturge for another game, but yeah that would be disappointing

[rapid wagon]

Hmm, ok, thoughts on fit for a Metal Kineticist in a party of a Tyrant Champion, Rogue, Thaumaturge, and (possibly) a fighter/barb? I'm thinking its too much front line

[barren cipher]

can't have too much front line

[rapid wagon]

think it'd be fine without a negative healing healer or something like that?

or a utility caster?

[warped orbit]

you'll probably need someone to spec into Medicine and get Stitch Flesh

but the Rogue can do that fairly easily
and you do have some healing from the Champ

[rapid wagon]

alright, i was feeling some pressure to change away from kineticist but maybe it'd be just fine

[warped orbit]

nah, you should be fine

[warped orbit]

also this is something you can cover with just casting archetypes/Trick Magic Item and buying some scrolls

I've been doing it a lot in my AV game, just buying some good scrolls on my Investigator

my DC is not the best, but throwing out a Synesthesia or Slow is still great

or just a Haste or Heroism

talismans and other consumables can also cover a good bit

[rapid wagon]

ok neat

[rapid wagon]

my current plan is a skeleton metal kineticist

was a necromantic experiment on a dwarf with an open kinetic gate, trying to preserve it

twas a success

stuff happened, ended up on my own, joined the carters guild since you don't get too many personal questions that way

while i tried to figure out what to do next

settle on gaining rank or station; i think maybe desire to become a blood lord will come later

[turbid dagger]

I've decided on a Jiu Huan Dao for this thaum, not because its a good thaum weapon but because I like the mental image of hanging the Thaum Stuff for weakness from the rings

[tough barn]

That's a dope way to approach having a hodgepodge of materials at the ready with your weapon

[crystal walrus]

Starfinder spaceship combat went better this week

damn the rail balistae is good

[frank crystal]

Are kineticist affected by anti magic stuff?

[solar storm]

yes*

Channel Elements has the Primal trait so anything which cares about your Kinetic Aura doesn't work

[frank crystal]

ah ok

[solar storm]

So a few things like Elemental Familiar aren't but nearly everything else is

[heavy fulcrum]

kineticist stuff is Magic but its not Spells, yknow?

[thorny berry]

god this is giving me terrible flashbacks to my 1e alchemist

extracts are spells, kinda, except not

[eager mountain]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sihi

[turbid dagger]

Envoy confirmed for 2e 😌

[warped orbit]

oh interesting

[turbid dagger]

Two abilities mentioned, a speed boost and temp hp

[frank crystal]

What’s Envoy?

[turbid dagger]

Starfinder class that's a more roguish version of the Warlord 'non magic support' concept

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[warped orbit]

Envoy is a support focused skill class

They mostly do ally buffs and a bit of healing IIRC
and being decent-ish with a gun

[eager mountain]

I mean yeah , its playtest amterial was announced to come out in march

[clever cobalt]

I'm wondering how the Operative is gonna differ from 1e

Assuming they're keeping the Operative at least

Also the Nanocyte or Evolutionist since conceptually I love the those classes (or at least their vibes)

[eager mountain]

operative is staying

[clever cobalt]

Rad

[crystal walrus]

Envoy
Mystic
Operative
Solarian``` were in the pregen

whoops

scrolldown'd

[eager mountain]

soldier, mystic, operative, solarion, envoy and technomancer are still athing

the reason I know that technomancer is in there is becuase thurston hillman told us

[clever cobalt]

I really like the vibe and aesthetics of the Nanocyte and Evolutionist classes

So I'm holding out hope for them, even if theyll likely come out in a later book (if ever)

[eager mountain]

very likely

[clever cobalt]

Wondering how they'd be built though

Like, mechanically

[eager mountain]

idk

[echo briar]

witchwarper is also confirmed, and thats all the classes in the CRB

[fossil temple]

witchwarper ?

[clever cobalt]

"Regular" caster to Mystic's "divine" caster

[echo briar]

https://www.aonsrd.com/Classes.aspx?ItemName=Witchwarper

[light gyro]

Who up warping they witch

[fossil temple]

Thoughts on https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3665 with Imaginary weapon?
It don't seem to scale very well

[fossil temple]

thank ya!

[turbid dagger]

Imaginary weapon progresses MAP so I would not be big on it myself
As you IWep, Psi Weapon, Map strike
But I guess if your already going into melee its a fairly lossless damage increase

[fossil temple]

So is a harmless feat to take?

[solar tendon]

I wouldn't use it for map reasons yeah

[turbid dagger]

Yeah basically
Its a free action, if you cast imaginary wep you are in melee

[solar tendon]

not really competing for anything at level 4 that I can see

[fossil temple]

yeah, free 1d6 damage after all after casting iweapon

thank

[turbid dagger]

I wish Cleric got Bespell Weapon 🥺
Wanna do Weapon Surge Bespell Cleric
Or Weapon Surge Bespell Champion with Cleric dedication

[rapid wagon]

im realizing that theres a metal/earth kineticist in the newest castelvania series

[warped orbit]

she kinda is, yeah

[unborn rain]

What are the inspirations for Oprak culturally if anyone knows?

[clever cobalt]

You mean Oprak? Dunno if we have any, though it is a heavily militarized society if that matters

But I dunno if that have any cultural inspirations beyond that

[unborn rain]

Yeah, was thinking of a Hobgoblin character and was hoping there was anything like solid on Oprak for inspiration beyond "it's a Hobgoblin place, Hobgoblins live there"

[clever cobalt]

An angle I can see is, Oprak is also looking for validation and allies on a societal scale, and this could reflect via a willingness to work with whomever regardless of what they look like

[silver geyser]

I mean, that's the neat part

It's exactly that, led by a person who is forced to interact with countries that are almost exclusively led by humans

[clever cobalt]

Plus iirc the point of Oprak's creation is pretty much that General whateverhernameis wanted to create a Monster Nation in a humanoid-dominated world

And yeah that

If it matters, Oprak has allied with the Knights of Lastwall

And is actually one of the Knights' biggest material supporters

Sure you can do something with that

[silver geyser]

Thanks to the Stone Roads, they can trade safely with just about anywhere in the world

[clever cobalt]

Also that yeah

[unborn rain]

I was thinking of person who gets kicked out of Oprak for some reason and has like X fighting style to represent that

But I don't think there's really any martial unique stuff they have.

[silver geyser]

There's also the fun refusal of arcane magic

[clever cobalt]

They have portals to the Plane of Earth (as well as having their "true" homeland there)

Oprak is young nation trying to assert itself on a geopolitical scale

They have a decent amount of both supporters and detractors

You could maybe reflect that in this character somehow?

[unborn rain]

The only thing I found was that they use Alchemists, which is weird in 1e where they're magic, but is incredibly normal on 2e where Hobgoblins love alchemy

[turbid dagger]

Unfortunately it is kind of just 'is a hobgoblin place, hobgoblins live there'
But that can actually help you because hobgoblins have a 'society' section in their ancestry page
Its also like, very new
So a lot of its citizens are like
Ironfang soldiers who are aclimating to having to run farms and inns now

[clever cobalt]

Oh iirc

[turbid dagger]

I'm doing a Opraki Hobgoblin in Kingmaker so I've been thinking about this a lot too

[clever cobalt]

General Azerasi sent some Hobgoblins to join the Pathfinder Society and make friends with them

Which worked and now the Society is friends with Oprak

[silver geyser]

Correct. Azerasi is doing everything she can to remind humans that hobgoblins are people

[turbid dagger]

Iolite Squad Alpha!

[unborn rain]

I could maybe do, Fighter/Alchemist with some lastwall fighter feats but overall I think the character just doesn't work for the adventure path it'd be in (outlaws of Alkenstar)

Although it would probably work in a different one sometime

[turbid dagger]

But yeah I imagine like
A lot of very new cookie cutter farms maintained by farmers who identify as 'Oprak Home Regiment, 4th Logistics' or something

Towns that look more like military camps, with giants in them

[clever cobalt]

Oprak is definitely one of the more interesting nations to me as well

I hope we learn more at some point

[silver geyser]

Oh, that's simple for Alkenstar. Looking into how a place works without elf magic is on brand

[unborn rain]

I was going for, running away from Oprak to Alkenstar

As like, it's the one place Oprak might not be able to get them

As mana wastes probably fucks with divination or The teleport rock they've got

[turbid dagger]

Notably the teleport rock has some fairly heavy limitations
You have to haul a subrock over on foot and set it down
Its more useful as a logistical tool
Fast travel your supplies/trade goods/armies instantly from one pre-prepared place to another

Kind of like Union's blink gates actually 🤔

[silver geyser]

It's logistical value is immense and makes it Opprak's biggest benefit

[young chasm]

late but i don't think psi strikes even works with imaginary weapon RAW

psi strikes adds a damage rider to an existing weapon or your unarmed attack

imaginary weapon is just a spell attack

[turbid dagger]

I think the idea is imaginary weapon, prime psi strike, weapon swing

[young chasm]

oh gotcha

[barren cipher]

2-action save/utility spell and a strike (ideally with a shortbow) is a good turn even if your attack bonus isn’t all that, piling -5 map on top of it makes it a bit less attractive

[thorny berry]

yeah it's good specifically if you can not use MAP on your actual spell

the ideal 'martial-y caster' rotation is pretty much 'cast a spell and make the occasional cheeky third action ranged attack'

battle oracle my beloved

[solar tendon]

potentially piling -10 on it if you amp IW

but it's still a thing of other than an archetype what else do you spend a level 4 feat on

[frank crystal]

So my party now has

3 kineticist

And between us we have every element

[thorny berry]

by your powers combined,

to be fair, if you were ever to make a party of just one class it would absolutely be kineticist

I think the only role they're not potentially capable at is single-target damage

and even then, y'know, fire kineticist is gonna be at least decent.

[frank crystal]

with enough aoe, it becomes single target

[thorny berry]

(runner-up: thaumaturge)

[frank crystal]

also I feel like summoner could work

every spell list, both martials and spellcasters represented

very long turns though

[thorny berry]

summoner if you're fine with a lot of 'hey can we long rest now' lol

[frank crystal]

Just get a very lenient GM

[turbid dagger]

Yeah my thought is that for a lot of situations aoe save angled to not hit your pals->single target blast is pretty good for single target
Obviously your no giant barbarian but

[thorny berry]

said party would probably struggle in a solo encounter, but oh well

[eager mountain]

witchwarpers are multi-dimensional manipulators

they change environments and realities around them for a bit

[echo briar]

I've got to say, the new Naga look cool. https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sihj?Monster-Core-Preview-Monsters-Resurrected#discuss

[turbid dagger]

Hey, does anyone know whether light sources impact stealth?
I imagine they must but not sure where the rule is
Yknow, if you are trying to sneak in a dark crypt having a lantern out is probably a no go

Trying to figure out how important darkvision is for a sneaky scout type

[silver geyser]

So, even if written rules don't say that having a light on you doesn't break stealth, I would not entirely be surprised by DMs having light sources break it.

[rapid wagon]

That's definitely a situation of "if your enemies use vision as a detection sense and you are carrying a light in a dark place, you are easier to see and in fact draw attention"

[turbid dagger]

The game does say that you can assign circumstance bonus/penalties to skill checks as appropriate
But leaving such a fairly big part of stealth under the vague purview of 'slap a -4 on it' doesn't seem like paizos style

[warped orbit]

if the light makes you unobscured, it matters

otherwise no

[rapid wagon]

Generally in the dark, if a guy has a lantern, even if they can't see the guy carrying the lantern, they can still see the lantern

[silver geyser]

They might not know where you are, but that new light source will draw them in if not hidden.

[turbid dagger]

I mean yes
I agree that its obvious in an in world sense what the outcome would be
But I can't find it codified in rules, and PF2e typically does not do 'we're not gonna explain this because its obvious and players can just use common sense (players cannot use common sense)'

[warped orbit]

you need to be at least Concealed to Hide or Sneak

[silver geyser]

So if you have cover, you're Fine*

But also I would just 100% assume that a GM will have creatures poke around.

[turbid dagger]

Alright so basically:
Get Darkvision if you wanna sneak

[silver geyser]

If you are sneaking in dark areas, yes.

[turbid dagger]

I typically take that as a given in this game/genre

[silver geyser]

Depends on campaign vibe.

[turbid dagger]

You will be in a crypt, sewer or night time castle raid at some point

[silver geyser]

If you're doing dungeon delving like Abomination Vaults (which you are planning for iirc), then prepare for the dark.

If you're doing more city-based work...

[turbid dagger]

Is there a single AP where you aren't below ground or in some abandoned ruin at some point

[silver geyser]

Huge chunks of Hells Rebels come to mind.

In most of the city-based games, even creatures with darkvision will light up their homes, if for no other reason than color is nice to look at.

[turbid dagger]

Though I did just realize- purely for enemy detection and avoidance, imprecise senses like scent would also work
Which is funny
Sneak past the ophidian horrors by scent alone

[silver geyser]

Yep! Scent as ever is great.

So is the ever fun climb speed.

[echo briar]

I mean, any imprecise sense will do. Try echolocation.

[silver geyser]

Climb speeds will 100% change how a party approaches scouting and stealth.

[echo briar]

scream at the walls and hope for the best

[turbid dagger]

That is why I love Catfolk so
Imprecise scent on a heritage and a slow climbing speed at 5
Which like
Climbing speeds are useful more for their utility than doing it in combat

[silver geyser]

Indeed.

Though large rooms can change that too.

[turbid dagger]

So it being only ten feet does not matter much

[echo briar]

although, RAW, you don't need echolocation to hear walls.

[silver geyser]

The floor is almost always trapped.

The walls less so.

[echo briar]

it is just a normal imprecise sense

[turbid dagger]

It is funny to think that catfolk can use their claws to like
Climb across the ceiling of stone hallways

[silver geyser]

You have to meet an exceptionally paranoid trapsith to find trapped ceilings.

[echo briar]

or a trapsmith who really hates geckos, or as you pointed out, catfolk

[turbid dagger]

Oh this is interesting
If you don't want to only go 10 feet, having a climb speed at all gives you +4 circ to climbing normally
(Also I'd still need to roll for ceilings, sad)

[silver geyser]

Yep yep.

[warped orbit]

honestly a 10 foot climb speed is very good

that's way better than having to Climb "normally"

[echo briar]

Somehow, that still applies to cliff strider Irixi, despite the fact that it is much, much harder to walk on walls than walk on ceilings

[warped orbit]

climb and swim speeds are very useful, even if they are slow

[turbid dagger]

I did just say this
You are only rarely climbing under extreme pressure
Climbing is the pressure

So you can take your time

[silver geyser]

Swim slightly less so, if only due to walls and ceilings being more common by default

[warped orbit]

yeah but even in combat, 10 feet is way faster than usual
you can climb up a 20 foot wall or so pretty easily

[silver geyser]

Indeed

[turbid dagger]

I have a hard time working with their boosts though
My brain can't handle finesse builds
My flat damage 😔
My big dice 😭

[echo briar]

just play a caster

alternatively, a intimidation animal barbarian

[turbid dagger]

Oh that's a good idea actually
To get a head start on 16 dex for animal skin
Play a beefy sabertooth dude

[silver geyser]

Quality vibes

[craggy thunder]

How viable is a fully single-element kineticist?

[warped orbit]

varies a bit by element, but can work pretty well

the main advantage of being single element is that you get way more junctions

and some of the single element specific feats

[rapid wagon]

I'm still trying to decide if I do metal/ earth or solo metal

[warped orbit]

Fire single element fares quite well, it's just pretty damage focused

and Fire also wants junctions very quickly

[echo briar]

other than absolutely needing versatile blasts

otherwise, you can be unable to use all of your abilities in some fights

[warped orbit]

Extract Element also helps with that
But Versatile to switch to cold is also good yeah

[frank crystal]

Who are these?

[worthy stump]

those are some Monster Core beasties, got previewed in a blog post yesterday

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sihj?Monster-Core-Preview-Monsters-Resurrected

[fossil temple]

Solo Wood has a very fun broken combo and excellent armor, so yeah it can work

[warped orbit]

I have been having a lot of fun with Wood
though I am dual Wood/Earth, mostly for Armor in Earth and Jagged Berms

[fossil temple]

if i ever play wood again I think my GM would ban
*the tree *

[frank crystal]

Honestly I’m probably gonna make a lot of NPCs for an upcoming game who are not high level

Except for one or two skills which are ridiculously high for their level

[barren cipher]

yeah timber sentinel is, like

i think i can handle it for combat

but as a gm i don't think i could tolerate the utility for being deliberately irritating

[light gyro]

Wait is this just infinite trees

[warped orbit]

infinite small trees, but yes

[solar tendon]

this is kinda just how noncombat npcs work

like a lot of the official material is like 'baker 9'

[barren cipher]

infinite trees, spontaneous generation of fruit

[solar tendon]

so they have a skill in baking related things of a level 9 thing

[light gyro]

imagine working at the magaambaya and every week you step out a d say 'theyve fucking treed the place again'

[barren cipher]

i'm such a killjoy

[frank crystal]

Hell yah

[rapid wagon]

I'm mostly going Metal because of its association with decay, and tying that into a skeleton character in an upcoming Blood Lords adventure

[silver geyser]

Mono-Metal does great against things with equipment

[rapid wagon]

my loose narrative is that my former living self had an open kinetic gate, necromancer killed em an rezzed me as an experiment to see if the skeleton retained the power. As a mindless undead it seemd like the experiment failed and i got passed on to other owners

over time though i regained my own sentience, and in turn retained hte open gate somehow

i figure people with equipment will almost CERTAINLY be something i encounter

[fossil temple]

Not me making my 3th character in a row in pathbuilder that I will never use

[rapid wagon]

3? please

i do it like i do warhammer lists lol, i just make em to poke around with the system and explore ideas

explorin a monk skeleton rn as a potential alt to my kineticist

[thorny berry]

I simply rotate builds in my mind palace

[unborn rain]

Pathbuilder is for coming up with characters you will never play

that's why God invented it

[clever cobalt]

Currently playing Mono-Fire

I do a lot of damage

[fossil temple]

'Nudge Fate
Cantrip 4 [1 Action]
UncommonCantripConcentrateHexWitch
Range 30 feet; Targets 1 creature
Defense Will; Duration 1 minute

The barest spin of your patron's spool is enough to alter fate. When the target fails an attack roll, skill check, or saving throw and a +1 status bonus would turn a critical failure into a failure, or failure into a success, you grant the target a +1 status bonus to the check retroactively, changing the outcome appropriately. The spell then ends. If you cast nudge fate while a previous casting of this hex is still in effect, the previous effect ends.'

It's one action but this is like... a +1 but only counts if it would turn a a c.fail into a fail and fail to a sucess?
'

[fossil temple]

mood

[fossil temple]

3 this week*

[barren cipher]

yeah, it's pretty good

it also just hangs around until it gets used

[fossil temple]

thank!

and yeah I am making a Witch to see how the new one feels

Monki witch

[rapid wagon]

i made a monki monk with stumbling stance

liked that a lot

[fossil temple]

that does sound funfun

[thorny berry]

Someday, my gnoll champion bite-grappler....

[fossil temple]

Dude
Monk Wrestler? Fun as hell

[thorny berry]

ah but you see the whole idea was to actually take advantage of one of the evil Cause reactions by using grappling to force them to attack you

Or, let's see, what else have I been sitting on...

-whip sword + pistol Pistol Twirl scoundrel rogue
-pistolero reload ancestor oracle (lol)
-Recall Knowledge + alchemical ammunition spellshot gunslinger
-Cathartic Mage psychic that purges their own stupefy
-just every conceivable thaumaturge build really
-pistol + shield gunslinger
-mounted drifter gunslinger

-life oracle generally

[warped orbit]

Halfling mounted Sniper Gunslinger is one I kinda wanna try some time

[thorny berry]

yeah that seemed like the other big possibility for mounted gunslingers

[warped orbit]

you use Concealing Shadows to Hide "behind" your legchair

[thorny berry]

though it also does the whole thing of, like

[warped orbit]

and once you hit mature, the mount is effectively free movement

[thorny berry]

being very dependent on how much your dm might or might not just feel like having enemies casually annihilate your mount.

[rapid wagon]

there are so many monks to play, especially with all those different styles

and all those ki features

[thorny berry]

oh yeah that was another one some kind of like

[rapid wagon]

throws me for a loop that ki isn't a base part of the class, but is accessible quite early

[thorny berry]

peafowl stance rogue

and I guess my sixth pillar/foxfire thaumaturge is still hanging out in limbo since that game hasn't actually started yet

[fossil temple]

Pathfinder 2e has such great customization...

[barren cipher]

i don't think you can hide in your legchair

[surreal basin]

Why not?

[barren cipher]

like while you're in it?