Pathfinder

[frank crystal]

Because most monsters can speak common

Unless they’re completely unintelligent

[solar tendon]

oh wait intimidating prowess negates the language barrier too

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

[solar tendon]

but it could be hard to work into a wild shape build. unless you're maxing strength anyway for the unarmed bonus

[frank crystal]

When does str become better then wild shape actually?

[solar tendon]

umm

someone's probably done this

[warped orbit]

for Druids, never except for specifically at level 4

[frank crystal]

Ok so buffing strength is kinda

Bad

Unless I want intimidating prowess

[warped orbit]

yeah you don't need it

[heavy fulcrum]

pretty much

it has no effects on polymorph, because any battle form has defined attack bonuses and damage

[turbid dagger]

The homebrew race I'm tinkering with has a heritage that gives you basically the effects of intimidating glare, but its just 'you can make scary fucking noises because your an awful lion owl raptor thing'

[frank crystal]

Yah wild shape doenst really interact with your stats much in general

Other then con still being your health

[solar tendon]

it's better if your group is willing to include the +2 circumstance bonus if that brings you above the battle form's bonus

[frank crystal]

Yah it works like, you can use either bonus

But if you use your actual unarmed attack bonus

You get a +2 to damage then?

[solar tendon]

nah

it's +2 to hit

but you only get it (raw) if you are already higher

like your base hit bonus is +11 and the battle form's is +10

then you get to go to +13 with the circ bonus

but if it's +9 or even +10 you don't get it

except it's actually a status bonus but still haha

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

[solar tendon]

which is silly!

cause like Alaen said, druids only get it with an on level form at level 4

[warped orbit]

if you do that, it becomes somewhat viable to max Str, yeah

[solar tendon]

whereas martials or especially like, a fighter with their increased proficiency progression and str or dex key stat can just use it as a super cheap +2 status bonus

if they archetype druid

[warped orbit]

Fighter grabbing wildshape does some funny things yeah

[solar tendon]

tbh narratively I love the idea that like wild shape druids could benefit from being buff

like

"yeah, I don't wanna turn into a wimpy bear do I"

[frank crystal]

I do kinda wanna make like, halsin build druid yah

I know he only has like

12 strength

But still

Dudes bulky

[frank crystal]

How much AC and HP does a non champion martial tend to have at level 20?

[barren cipher]

probably 300ish hp

[craggy thunder]

41-44 ish ac?

most of my builds end up in that ballpark

[barren cipher]

44-45 ac i think - 20 levels, 6 master prof, 5 or 6 total armour, +3 runes

(and 10 for showing up)

[frank crystal]

hmm alright

[silver geyser]

Pretty much that by the looks of things.

Couple more if you're someone who uses a shield.

[craggy thunder]

There is a sixth person in our group, and I am blessed

and I am no longer the sole melee character

We got a champ

[surreal basin]

Hell yeah

In my Fatewalkers game we only have two Melee Optional Characters

An ice weapon Kineticist and a thrown weapon fighter

[echo briar]

Is session of ghosts OGL or ORC?

[craggy thunder]

An Azarketi Champ too

[thorny berry]

https://www.polygon.com/tabletop-games/23979417/paizo-howl-of-the-wild-preview-werewolf-swarmkeeper

Archetypes! 'Wild mimic' that lets you imitate some creature abilities, swarmkeeper that has BEEEES

and then one that's basically 'hey we know the beastkin template is kinda lame we're going to do it right this time' lol

[clever cobalt]

Werecreature Archetype

[thorny berry]

`But by far the most anticipated addition to the Second Edition’s remastered ruleset is werecreatures — shapeshifting humanoid creatures inspired by werewolves and other mythical creatures. And Paizo’s system for creating these creatures, Case said, is even more nuanced than its other archetypes.

“This is double-length ancestry [in terms of page count] that gives you all of your classic stuff — shape shifting and healing, that sort of thing,” Case said. But it also offers additional abilities, like echolocation for werebats and pack attacks for werewolves in addition to “more general werecreature abilities.”`

[clever cobalt]

Oh shit nice

[thorny berry]

also very curious if this is some kind of solution to consumable hand economy
One of the most unusual new creatures is called the Apothecary Bee, which when on the offensive can drain the potions carried by players. When allied, it can inject what it has gathered to help buff players.

or just a funky specific familiar or something

[sinful gyro]

Looks like it

[clever cobalt]

Furries keep winning

I'm totally gonna play a were-creature

Just need to decide what kind

[solar tendon]

wanma make bee ranger

bee druid

[clever cobalt]

(Also I wonder how they're gonna alter the lore cause iirc in 1e at least, werecreatues are Always Evil)

[thorny berry]

I'll be very curious to see what kinda stuff were creatures actually get

[clever cobalt]

(I trust them to not fuck it up but I'm curious how they're gonna do it regardless)

[thorny berry]

will be interesting if it ends up rivaling martial artist for a 'hey what if I went unarmed with this character' splash

though presuming this is a picture of one it at least doesn't seem hard committed to that route

'Twice as long as an ancestry' is certainly a hell of an opening bid

[clever cobalt]

I read it as twice as long as the average archetype

Kh wait

It's an ancestry :v

Thought it was an archetype for some reason

[thorny berry]

oh, me too

presumably because the previous two were

so it's a full ancestry instead of a versatile heritage like beastkin

makes sense

though slight lol at having both that and awakened animal in the same book

paizo just looking directly at furries and going 'never ask me for a god damn thing again'

[clever cobalt]

As I said

Furries keep winning

[thorny berry]

I have no idea what you mean, I say, putting together my werecreature beastkin animal instinct barbarian with ursine avenger archetype

[surreal basin]

Oh shit werecreature is an ancestry?

[solar tendon]

honestly seems like the article is a bit contradictory

so wouldn't read too much into it ig

[surreal basin]

Oh on whether or not it’s an archetype or ancestry?

Fair

I would prefer it as an archetype personally

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

Same

[thorny berry]

I'll just be interested to see what they do with that

[clever cobalt]

I think they're an archetype? And the article was comparing them to an ancestry

But I could be wrong

[thorny berry]

with that kind of page count it at least seems beyond 'here's a natural weapon that's about as good as what you could have gotten somewhere else. shrug.'

[clever cobalt]

Yeah it seems more involved

Which I'm all for

[thorny berry]

" And, while ancestries have previously been revealed on the Paizo website, Case was able to share the book’s three new archetypes here for the first time."

[surreal basin]

Okay it’s an archetype sick

[clever cobalt]

It's third party but I personally love Battlezoo Dragons for all the variety it gives the Dragon Ancestry

I wish Paizo did the same, though I understand why they dont

(Plus I love the Draconic Ravager archetype)

Also. Awakened Animal Beastkin Werecreature

I'm gonna be the most animal that ever animaled

[unborn rain]

Don't forget to Animal Barbarian too

[thorny berry]

I already made this joke!!! but yes also ursine avenger

[clever cobalt]

Or Wild Order Druid

[unborn rain]

I think Wild order Druid minimises your actual animal levels

As you wildshape, which makes you only 1 animal

[surreal basin]

Werebear might let my Bear Monk shine true….

But would it be better than an awakened bear………

[turbid dagger]

'imitate creature abilities' 😳

[thorny berry]

I think? it sounds odd. "Access to skills involving trampling, rending, and pouncing, but also generating electricity, regenerating limbs, and making shockingly loud vocalizations"

pictured: a wild mimic

[turbid dagger]

OH MY GODDDD
PLAYER SIDE POUNCE AND REND ON WN ARCHETYYYYPE
Instantly 100% hyped for howl

[clever cobalt]

Time to go apeshit (literally)

[unborn rain]

Trample monk?

[thorny berry]

this feels like opening one of the seven seals keeping pathfinder 1e contained

[solar tendon]

flying first strike double strike...

[clever cobalt]

I always wanted to make a Monk who wasn't the standard Cultured, Stoic Warrior but instead more based on Maya/Meti

And this seems like a good excuse for it

[surreal basin]

Oooo

Player facing trample is mostly just funny

[turbid dagger]

Animal Barb with fucking rend

[clever cobalt]

What does Rend do again?

[surreal basin]

If you hit twice use an action to do damage as if you hit without actually making an attack roll

[turbid dagger]

If you hit twice in a row with an attack that has rend, you can just do the damage again with no roll for an action

[clever cobalt]

Nice

[surreal basin]

Hmmm

[turbid dagger]

Rend on monk, lmao

[thorny berry]

that sounds pretty nasty in general in player hands

[surreal basin]

Flurry ranger wild mimic

[thorny berry]

I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being 'do [some smaller flat amount]'

[turbid dagger]

True, and tbh I wouldn't mind that

[surreal basin]

Eh I mean

[thorny berry]

probably something like weapon dice with no modifiers

[surreal basin]

Tbh getting off tend is really hard

[thorny berry]

couldn't you double slice into it?

or similar

[surreal basin]

You have to use all three actions for it, and hit two attacks

Oh I suppose maybe

[turbid dagger]

It does take your whole turn unless you have flurry

[thorny berry]

stab and blast rend lol

jesus wept

[surreal basin]

It’ll probably only be with unarmed

So only flurry would play into it

[thorny berry]

man a dragon monk would put somebody in the ground with that

sounds neat

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I assume it's tied to unarmed attacks
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a specific unarmed attack specifically to balance it a bit
D6 'troll claws' or something
We'll have to wait and see

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Oh that’d make sense

Rend feels so good to get off tho I gotta say

[turbid dagger]

As just fucking
Animal Barb d12 vibe check
Would be a little fucked

[warped orbit]

yeah unrestricted Rend would be nasty with Animal Barb

[surreal basin]

I wonder if they’ll make you having encountered certain enemies a prerequisite

Like with uhhhh

Aftermath Feats

[warped orbit]

it's probably gonna be an uncommon/rare archetype

[clever cobalt]

Does anyone actually use those pre-reqs though

[surreal basin]

I mean sometimes yeah

[clever cobalt]

Maybe it's just me but they mostly seem backstory terroratory or are ignored

[solar tendon]

honestly not had a lot survive animal barb starting a turn next to them in general

[surreal basin]

Especially if it’s a proper prereq like I’ve never had anyone take numb to death

Cause you have to die

[clever cobalt]

Fair

Some seem different from others though?

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah an access requirement which you can usually

[clever cobalt]

Like Dying seems more... idk, grounded then making a deal with a demon I guess?

[surreal basin]

But there’s like

[clever cobalt]

Though I suppose that's where Uncommon and whatnot come in

[surreal basin]

Actual prereqs

I mean yeah

It’s not supposed to be a class feat, yknow

I’m just speculating it’d be a little weird to have a wild mimic mimic something they’ve never seen lol

[thorny berry]

that reminds me, I still wish curse maelstrom had a clearer trigger condition

it seems like a cool archetype but it's not clear if its main thing is supposed to happen, like

every round or almost never

[surreal basin]

Oh like if it’s just the initial failure or every subsequent one

[turbid dagger]

But yeah regardless I'm really excited to see the final product now
I kind of blew off Howl before now because uhhhh
I'm not a furry
But the idea of taking monster abilities and adapting them for pcs has fascinated me for a while, and now I'm hearing 'rend and pounce on a monk'

[thorny berry]

"when you succeed at a check, the GM can offer to have you roll again, taking the second result"

it's not clear if that's supposed to be, like, every time you succeed or just when the GM feels like it or what

[surreal basin]

Ohhh

“Can”

Just when they feel like it

They don’t have to

If it was every time that would also be extremely annoying lmao

[turbid dagger]

It's also 'offer' so if it was every time the PC could just say no

[thorny berry]

just a very weird phrasing that could render the entire archetype into dead text on your sheet. Or not!

[warped orbit]

Access is different from prerequisite

Prereqs are actually required, Access just makes something count as common

RAW anyway

[turbid dagger]

Oh huh
Wild mimic is said to be inspired by Tarzan and Blanka
Cool

[surreal basin]

As a controversial Sidenote, I think this system works REALLY well with having NPCs tag along as companions with the players

[turbid dagger]

What system?

[surreal basin]

Oh, PF2E in general I mean

[turbid dagger]

Oh I see
Yeah that makes sense
With how codified encounter balance is you can give them a bestiary pal and know exactly how much you just shifted things in their favor
And can shift it back by boosting encounters with similar ease

[surreal basin]

Yeah exactly!

Like

I have a game where I only have three players

But I don’t wanna downshift the encounters to account for that because, yknow, they could tell and it wouldn’t feel proper climatic and stuff

It’d feel like they were being soft balled

So they have an NPC companion slot! It’s just a bestiary NPC or sometimes a fella I edited

[unborn rain]

3 player encounters are very boring to build

I just put a DM PC into my game to make it more interesting combat wise

[surreal basin]

Their companions also never like

Input into decisions unless it’s like

Providing additional context their character would have

But they don’t ever get a vote in decisions

Cause they’re a companion

Arcade Ganon doesn’t get to physically stop you from turning on Helios One

Which I think is important

It’s also a cool reward to pass out for certain stuff

“You helped this guy so he can enter your companion roster”

[unborn rain]

my players got their DM PC because they convinced a gladiator fighter that communism was cool

[surreal basin]

LMAO

in my case they got a psionic gug because they Nat 20’s like

3 times

While talking to him

[silver geyser]

I would DMPC

But I really don't want to

[surreal basin]

They talked him out of being the apprentice of a psionic worm and becoming the apprentice of the Lich wizard

Well

‘Lich’

Technically a living dream possessing an artificial body

[unborn rain]

How does Desna feel about that? If she's even about in that campaign

[surreal basin]

Oh no it’s in my home setting

But Desna does exist

Uhhh

Hmmm

I feel like she’d be against it but the God Court can’t do anything about it for now cause it’s like

Explicitly exploiting a loophole in planar law

[unborn rain]

Classic god court

[surreal basin]

Yeah the heavens in my setting are a bureaucracy

Made up of 9999 gods

[turbid dagger]

Is Pharasma there
Is she the head of God court
Just banging her gavel constantly

[surreal basin]

She’s not the head but is there

She IS the head of the Court of Judgement

Which is the court that decides where you go when you die

The head of god court in general is the God of Law in my setting, Okhu, the Law and Tyrant

Literal embodiment of the concept of laws

Hmmm

Thinking about animist

And letting people swap divine for primal for my setting

Since spirits are more a primal thing

[rustic cape]

Bear in mind that that will produce some redundancy with apparition spell lists

Not the worst thing in the world, but something to have in mind

[surreal basin]

Fair yeah

Which was actually my major point of feedback from the playtest lol

“Hey these spirits feel like they’re JUST primal”

[rustic cape]

They should add some occult ones as well, imo

I really like animist

[surreal basin]

Yeah it fucks

I wouldn’t mind some arcane ones as well tbh

Limited access to all spell lists would fit the bill

[thorny berry]

tbh I wish animist had leaned into swapping spirits.... doing more

swapping your active spirit, rather

[surreal basin]

Yeah I had that also as a major point of feedback

Is that your primary spirit should matter a lot

[turbid dagger]

Animist does kind of feel like its meant to be a divine/primal caster BUT
I would not oppose occult or even Arcane spirits
Your dancing partner is an archmage that accidentally annihilated their physical self

[surreal basin]

I summon a fragment of Geb or Nex

I do love the idea of a spirit contractually bound to you that otherwise doesn’t care to be there

[rustic cape]

The cool thing is that Animist is the 3.5 Binder

But better-designed

[surreal basin]

Ye it fucks hard

I like that like

Summoner and Animist are two sides of the same coin lore wise

Summoner is just harder specialized

[thorny berry]

my hot take on animist is just that it runs into the unfortunate thing of four-slot casters in this system

where just Being A Four-Slot Caster eats up so much of the budget that their other unique class features are tragically juiceless

[unborn rain]

4 slot caster's just get the most important slots to have

[rustic cape]

The focus spells on Animist are pretty rad

And while some of the feats are anemic, others are quite strong

[surreal basin]

Yeah

The ability to just not die is pretty wild

[rustic cape]

Sustaining Dance for the win

[craggy thunder]

Anyone had the ability to test out the battle spirit?

For Animist?

[craggy thunder]

You know what I bet would be super fun?

Flurry Ranger with a whipstaff

[turbid dagger]

It does open up some interesting builds
Like Mauler Flurry

[craggy thunder]

I ended up having that thought while looking at what weapon to best use for inexorable iron to emulate that one Dragon Age II trailer

The one where Mage Hawke grows a pair and uses the pointy end of his mage staff

https://youtu.be/jlACgYHtWCI

I just like objects that are both weapons and casting foci

and are very obviously both

[turbid dagger]

Bo staff is also cool for that
And keeps them from Just Stepping and screwing with your spellstrike rotation

[craggy thunder]

well there's also dancer's spear

or a glaive or naginata

[craggy thunder]

I have figured out my backup character in case the worst should happen; sparkling targe magus that is on the take of the aspis consortium, and uses an asp coil

[worthy delta]

I wonder if the upcoming werebeasts will also be compatible with the vampire archetype and/or the dhampir heritage… I wanna make a werepyre lol

[clever cobalt]

Almost.applied for Morgue's SoT game

But I remembered I have another game at that time

[silver geyser]

Ahhh

A shame

[frank crystal]

[craggy thunder]

So switching held items is one action now

I am so happy

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, I like that a lot too
My fighters got a +1 great axe from a boss and until he can transfer the rune over to his bastard sword he can kludge it by using Swap
Feels nice

[craggy thunder]

My main reason it feels nice to me

Is my switch-hitter ranger

She's now fully viable the beautiful bitch

composite longbow & bastard sword

[turbid dagger]

Ohhhh yeah
That's the good stuff yeah

[craggy thunder]

Agile Shield Grip is such a cool fucking feat

just specialize in bullying the shit out of people with your shield

[frank crystal]

Oh sweet

So you can do something like, if you have a greatsword in hand

You can stow it and draw a bow in a single action now?

[craggy thunder]

Aye

[frank crystal]

Radical

[solar storm]

This is a really underrated buff yeah

[thorny berry]

I always wanted to do a golf bag fighter build

though I think there's still not any good way to do that rune-wise

[solar storm]

ABP exists at least

[barren cipher]

shifting rune basically

and probably not being a fighter, although maybe you can get enough variety in polearm group?

[surreal basin]

Uhhhh tbh

I played that kinda

And I had a thousand blade thesis and just picked up weapons we found all campaign

Instead of selling them

[turbid dagger]

It does kind of annoy me that Fighter uhhh
Gets pigeonholed into one weapon group after a(n early) point

[rustic cape]

Yeah I would personally prefer a master-of-all and don’t think it would be a balance problem

[turbid dagger]

What are some good archetypes for kineticist? They don't really interact with... Anything other classes do

[carmine egret]

WRESTLER

[turbid dagger]

But all it's stuff is unarmed attacks

[carmine egret]

Hm, I could have sworn there was synergy, haven't checked in a minute though

[warped orbit]

Whirling Throw mostly

[turbid dagger]

Medic seems like probably my best bet, though taking it at level 2 would necessitate a specific background

[frank crystal]

With Wrestler you just grab all the athletics focused stuff and not the unarmed attack stuff

[clever cobalt]

I like Rogue

If purely because of the passive stuff

[barren cipher]

it's sorta hard to beat a big bucket of skill increases

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[grand epoch]

They’re getting Martial Weapon proficiency too, from what I understand

[craggy thunder]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=149

I think taking ancestral weaponry on a catfolk monk would be worth it for this

[thorny berry]

good ol hampering, nothing beats that

(hampering is wack)

[warped orbit]

it really is

[frank crystal]

You think a 50 to AC is fine for a level 20 duo boss?

The other boss is an elite ancient red spellcaster dragon

[barren cipher]

that seems high

that's moderate ac for a level 24

[robust heron]

champion

almost all of the kinnies get a single overflow reaction

so having something else to do with yours is real nice

[turbid dagger]

Oh, that is a good idea
That takes charisma though................

[frank crystal]

Yah after making a test level 20 fighter

I lowered it to 48

Only 1 higher then the elite ancient red dragon

[barren cipher]

doing it up as level 22 puts you as severe

and that's high ac for a level 22 so you should be in good shape

[turbid dagger]

Currently focusing on Wis as my mental stat so I can be the healer
Blessed One for Lay On Hands is probably just overkill with ocean's palm, fresh produce (after getting heightened anyway), dash of herbs, torrent in the blood, and medicine with ward medic and continuous recovery and doctor's visitation and

[frank crystal]

[turbid dagger]

May do druid after medic so I can just pack a bunch of support primal spells

[frank crystal]

Heres the basic statblocks for both

they also have access to magic but the basic lists of the ancient red dragon and rune giant

I didnt change any of that

[barren cipher]

the giant's strikes seem kinda pathetic

i take it back, the giant's strikes are extremely pathetic

give the man some juice

[frank crystal]

Oh yah I forgot to change his damage

I only changed his to hit

[frank crystal]

Also I forgot to mention but I added an extra die and increased all their + damage to 20 or 18 depending on the attack

[barren cipher]

he's a striker with a two-handed weapon right

[frank crystal]

Technically yah but I’m kinda running him as holding his sword in one hand and his spear in the other

[barren cipher]

4d12+37 wouldn't be remotely out of order

[frank crystal]

[barren cipher]

assuming you want a severe encounter

[frank crystal]

Kinda yah

Though I will say

These two aren’t the complete end

I’m doing a Ornstein and smaug thing

Where once one dies the other gets stronger based on who’s dead

[barren cipher]

well, even if you tone it down to a midboss with two 20s, 4d12+32 is perfectly acceptable

[frank crystal]

Alright

I’ll give him some juice then

[barren cipher]

show 'em you mean business

[frank crystal]

Fair

These two are meant to be like

Literal apocalypse starters

They can be a little cracked

[barren cipher]

xotani and kothogaz might be fun to look at for a parallel

[frank crystal]

Who are they?

[barren cipher]

fellow apocalypse starters, tarrasque's little siblings

[frank crystal]

Ohhhh

[barren cipher]

also, by happy coincidence, level 20 and 21

[frank crystal]

Oh very fun

Also huh

With how I increased this to level 20

I gotta include a tarrasque

[clever cobalt]

They're Spawns if Roghuz?

[frank crystal]

Like, for the bit

[clever cobalt]

Or something like that

[barren cipher]

rovagug yeah

[frank crystal]

I don’t even know where I’d put the tarrasque

[barren cipher]

they are horrible little bastards even if you file off the regen

[frank crystal]

But I gotta include it somewhere

[barren cipher]

dead but dreaming is the best place for it

[frank crystal]

Not even alive but still causing shit

[barren cipher]

i'm always in favour of enemies juiced up on tarrasque blood or whatever

[frank crystal]

Consuming a thing makes you like a thing

So consuming tarrasque blood just makes you an engine of destruction

[barren cipher]

and then you can always go "haha, foolish do-gooders, you can't kill me, if you do then it will wake up"

[frank crystal]

Oh that’s fucked up

Oh huh

I’m placing all these one shots on a single mountain

On just, various different parts of it

It’s base, it’s peak and under

I think I’m gonna place the tarrasque under the mountain

[surreal basin]

jesus christ ice yai are gross

[frank crystal]

What do they do?

[surreal basin]

they have 4 times a dat gone of cold

a day, even

greater darkvision

and once a day darkness

and are also extremely competent unarmed attackers that can inflict slowed on crits

they also have wall of ice

so presumably the play is

wall of ice -> darkness on yourself -> drop cone of cold if you can hit more than two people, if you can't, beat the hell out of one guy

rinse and repeat in your super arena

[frank crystal]

Jesus

[surreal basin]

they also have solid fog to fuck with ranged units

[frank crystal]

And the occasional crit slows a character

[silver geyser]

THUNDERDOME TIME! >.:D

[frank crystal]

Goddamn

:D

[surreal basin]

which is a fog cloud that slows someone

they also have flurry of blows

[silver geyser]

Gotta do the three eyes for Oni

[surreal basin]

my players are about to fight two of them in a tournament fight

a younger, hotheaded, agressive one, and an older, protective strategist

[frank crystal]

Are they both using the same statblock?

[surreal basin]

yeah but one has a template that increases them to level 14 and gives them the ability to take hits for their brother as a reaction

[frank crystal]

Oh shit

[surreal basin]

and gives them higher than average hp

the party is level 13 so it should be fine

and are generally rocking this tourney so far

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[barren cipher]

they have a decent stealth check and at will invisibility

[surreal basin]

after them is an upscaled bloodshroud

[barren cipher]

christ.

[surreal basin]

and then Crow Knight Ores

[frank crystal]

whos that?

[surreal basin]

a Vildravn with bloodbird removed and replace wiiiiith

[frank crystal]

oh thats sick

Can I steal that for a NPC?

[surreal basin]

also two casts of blink charge added to their spell list

and yeah go ahead

[frank crystal]

thanks

Also holy shit

I’m looking at their statblock

Vilderavns have a +8 to strength?

[surreal basin]

that's not unusal for a 12+ level creature

[frank crystal]

I know it doesn’t actually affect much but goddamn I didn’t realize how strong they are

[surreal basin]

most creatures end up having way more stats than players get which is fine

because technially it doesn';t matter for anything

[silver geyser]

Twas the case over in 1e too.

[frank crystal]

I mean yah I just didn’t really associated the raven Fey people with being that strong

[surreal basin]

the way npcs are built you don't really like

consider their stats in the math

[frank crystal]

Oh yah I’m fine

I’m not complaining

[surreal basin]

oh for sure!!

[frank crystal]

I just think it’s funny

[surreal basin]

sorry didn't mean to imply you were lol

[frank crystal]

It’s fine

[surreal basin]

but yeah the Vildravn in my setting are the Crow Knights

the children/knights of the fallen archfae Crowfather

[frank crystal]

makes sense

they are essentially knights in their humanoid form

[surreal basin]

who mostly now fuck around in the horrible extradimensional curse forest like

sitting in the middle of 'europe'

that their dad just layered onto reality

Ores left and became basically a black ops mercenary

[frank crystal]

wait like, earth europe?

[surreal basin]

no no just the europe equivalent of my setting

[frank crystal]

Ohhhh

I was wondering if this was a fantasy earth setting

[surreal basin]

lolol no no

it's just a continent ruled by the a german inspired empire

so i tend to call it europe

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

Also I do like the idea of using Vildravns as a knight statblock

They are a very cool enemy

[surreal basin]

yeyeye
bloodbird is just

harsher than i want to hit them with offensively rn

i've also debuffed their ac and saves a little

[frank crystal]

Yah fair

[surreal basin]

which lore wise is just because they've abandoned their 'patron' father

they're the weakest crowknight of like, 4 or 5

[frank crystal]

Ah so they’re less crow like now?

[surreal basin]

yeah kinda

they don't have their fathers like

shadow fae blessings

also i spell fey like fae i'm sorry

idk why i do this

[frank crystal]

I mean I switch like every other time I spell it

[surreal basin]

Oh hey lemme hit y’all with the other challenger of tonight’s tournament arc

Goreknight Lysa who is a sentient necromantic warrior construct whose had their entire body reward to feel the same drive towards violence that living creatures feel for like

Eating

Or sleep

[silver geyser]

Ooooo

Violence gourmand

[surreal basin]

Yeah kinda

More like Guy Who Needs Violence to Stay Sane

Also is a horrifying experiment to replicate the first Lich dictator’s honor guard of bloodshrouds

Also

Have y’all ever fought a Cauthooj

In this game

The weird parry birds

[frank crystal]

Has Paizo said anything about the flat out removed Tiefling and aasimar feats?

Like final form?

[surreal basin]

I assume

That

They aren’t compatible with nephilim/the remaster rules

Like final form is heavily involved with alignment damage

[turbid dagger]

Cauthoojes live in my head rent free
I have not ever played with one no but they seem tailor made to be The Most Annoying Enemy Ever

[surreal basin]

Oh I’ve fought them on

THREE

seperate occasions

[turbid dagger]

Oh Brother

[surreal basin]

They’re endearingly annoying

[turbid dagger]

Are they as annoying as they seem

[surreal basin]

Yes

Very

They make you hit your own Allies and constantly confuse you

But if you’re smart you can work around them

[turbid dagger]

I'm deeply sad they're Beasts and not animals
So you can't summon them

[turbid dagger]

I assume by like
Making sure your never adjacent for hop dodge and staccato strike?

[light gyro]

right so the party (11th level) have caught themselves between two moderate encounters at once. this'll be. messy.

they're a little attritioned already too. but to be fair to them, this is a paizo AP and they put these two encounters six squares from each other???

visual representation. spoilers for book 3 of the Strength of Thousands AP

[surreal basin]

That but also like

It’s an animal

You can bait those things out with weaker attacks

And then go in with the stronger ones

Or, a bear but

*beast

It’s not smart enough to know you’re holding back Yknow

[light gyro]

This asshole bird has thoughtsense???

[surreal basin]

Isn’t there text about these encounters interacting

[turbid dagger]

It's smart enough to understand a language
That sounds like a table thing really

[surreal basin]

That’s fair I suppose

I still think you can reasonably juke it if your gm isn’t metagaming

[light gyro]

Scanned the pages again, can't see anything.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah it really depends on table culture I think
But then again a gm saving an ability like that specifically for, idk
Magus Spellstrike
Is cruel for reasons beyond metagaming lmao

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[surreal basin]

Also

Oh wait this would be general tabletop

[solar tendon]

this is neat

[frank crystal]

What would be some good actions for a super high level swordsman boss?

Like besides the obvious ones of AOO

[craggy thunder]

If they have only a one handed sword, dueling dance?

[frank crystal]

Yah they have a one handed sword

And what’s dueling dance do?

[craggy thunder]

dueling parry on all the time

[frank crystal]

Admittedly that does feel kinda wasted on a NPC

[craggy thunder]

I mean it's a stance

[frank crystal]

Because like, that just effectively making it so the NPC has a higher AC

[craggy thunder]

you could always give them multiple stances

[frank crystal]

Oh

Huh

Actually

Rhi you’re a genius

[craggy thunder]

lmao

ur welcome

[frank crystal]

All my praise unto you

[barren cipher]

parry on reaction, if it would cause the attacker to critical miss due to increased AC that's a paddlin'

[craggy thunder]

Pilcrow is suggesting Saving Slash

[frank crystal]

Yah I think I like that

[craggy thunder]

Except with an attack tacked on

[frank crystal]

Especially since I’m also like, already stealing from Emily here lol

[craggy thunder]

Actually it's reverse saving slash with an attack stapled on

[frank crystal]

So that’s 3 cool reactions for different purposes

Actually

I think what I’ll do is give him that parrying stance

But make it so when attacks critically miss him in that stance

He can reaction attack

[craggy thunder]

What sort of character is this?

[frank crystal]

Just a perfected swordsman type

[craggy thunder]

Like fluff-wise

[frank crystal]

Like the greatest swordsman to ever have lived

Who single handedly lead his nation against the gods

And almost won

Resurrected in his original flesh

[unborn rain]

What level are you making him?

[frank crystal]

24

This is for a level 20 one shot

[unborn rain]

Give him an AoE attack which is him attacking with 100 swords maybe

[craggy thunder]

naaaaah

don't make him gilgamesh

make him that deadly with just the one sword in his hand

[frank crystal]

Yah I do have like, one rule for how I’m making him

He doesn’t have any magic

The only magical thing he has is that he’s so attuned to his sword he doesn’t actually need a physical one anymore

He forms one in his hand

But only the one

I do think I’ll do an AOE attack though, just more justifying it with him extending that sword like you would with an extending rune

[craggy thunder]

Max level Soulforger be like

[frank crystal]

Kinda tbh

The way I’m describing it is essentially him making a blade of lightning and smokeless fire. Mostly pulled from this guys art

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/WB34W2

So I think then, this guy will have 3 stances

An AC boosting stance that he gets access to a counter attack reaction

A speed boosting stance where he gets access to a teleport action (though it’s just him moving very fast) and a move towards a ranged attacker

And an athletics stance where he gets access to a reaction that lets him trip, grapple or shove as a reaction whenever someone moves in his threatened area or critically misses an attack against him

He will always be in one of these stances

Probably fighting the fight in the speed boosting stance

Other then that, probably just a 2 action extended strike and a 2 action AOE strike

[silver geyser]

Go anime

Give them a ranged slashing shockwave

doit

[frank crystal]

I mean, that’s kinda wanna I wanna flavor the extended strike as lol

Or at least him doing it fast enough you can’t tell wether the sword is giant or a slash was launched

Also I’m absolutely gonna describe his first attack as like, extending past the target and colliding with a mountain in the distance

[turbid dagger]

So I've been thinking of a sword master type myself
A fun idea I had was to give him a two hand weapon, like the trait
Bastard sword katana etc
And give him some stuff he can only use in one or two hand mode, along with some stuff that gives you a way to swap handedness fancy like
My initial idea was a reflexive shield esque react that shifts to one hand, and an AoO equivalent that shifts to two

[frank crystal]

Oh that’s cool, could also pull from like gunbreaker gunslinger

Something like a step then change grip action

Just ways to condense it while not fully removing it

[worthy delta]

Is there a good way to build around using the bite attack obtained by being a Dhampir or having the Vampire archetype? Is it worth building around?

I may have asked this before but I forgor

[frank crystal]

I mean it’s an unarmed attack with the grapple trait, so it allows you to grapple with all your hands occupied

[worthy delta]

I’m very new to Pathfinder but that seems pretty useful

[frank crystal]

Other then that, they seem kinda average?

[frank crystal]

It is!

Grapple is an extremely strong ability

[warped orbit]

hands free Grapple is great yeah

[worthy delta]

The main reason I’m considering it is more for vampire flavor and roleplay reasons than mechanical optimization, but it’s good to know that it wouldn’t be a waste

[frank crystal]

Yah it’s legitimately useful for that alone

Just don’t expect it to keep up with actual weapons or unarmed stances in terms of pure combat ability

If you have a sword in hand, probably best to just use that

[worthy delta]

Nods

So use it when I want a hands-free grapple but not as my primary means of attacking

[frank crystal]

Yup

Even if you don’t grab anything like combat grab, it’s still nice to have

Because you can just use athletics and grab them like normal

Also if your GM gives you the cash you can grab some handwraps of mighty blows to get a +1 or higher to your athletics checks or attacks with combat grab

But that can be pricy if it’s not your main means of attacking

Because it basically gives you an extra weapon to invest into

[worthy delta]

I see

Thank you for the tips!

[frank crystal]

[turbid dagger]

Yeah so like
If you have a build with a two hand weapon like a scythe, that lets you grapple when it would normally be Totally Impossible

[clever cobalt]

They were announced yesterday but god I already cannot wait for Werecreature Archetype

I'm gonna go so hard with my furry ideas

[worthy delta]

Saaaaaaame

[frank crystal]

Gonna stat out your main boy?

[clever cobalt]

One of them yes

I have several OCs :v

[turbid dagger]

Wild Mimic has got me FUCKED UP
Like FUCK

It sounds so good

[frank crystal]

I mean yah but idk I kinda associate your OCs with that wolf guy specifically

Sorry for forgetting his name

[frank crystal]

What does it mean?

[clever cobalt]

I don't have a wolf guy

I just have the skull head guy

[frank crystal]

Oh

I thought it was a wolf skull

[thorny berry]

I still wanna do my everstand stance champion bite-grappler

[clever cobalt]

It's a wolf/deer skull

[frank crystal]

Ahhh

Ic Ic

[turbid dagger]

Also I got into another game 😌
Gonna be a lizardfolk freedman water/wood kineticist in a fucked up apocalypse fantasy version of the Byzantine Empire

[worthy delta]

Oh that fucks

Have fun, the game and character concept both sound awesome!

[turbid dagger]

I applied a month ago but didn't make the cut
Unfortunately, some players had to drop out, and fortunately the GM looked through old applications when looking for replacements
But yeah, I'm playing Haziske, known as Horatius when a more imperial name is called for
He was the healer of a barbarian tribe, and became a prisoner of war and therefore a slave
Since he was ostensibly a noncombatant he was auctioned off to an elderly patrician as a personal doctor, with whom he established such a rapport that he was offered manumission
Rather than be returned to his homeland, he took imperial citizenship, so he could learn about the empire that threatens his people

[worthy delta]

Ooooh

[frank crystal]

Don’t worry it needed all three actions kick it’s ass

[surreal basin]

Alright my players

Have

Won the tournament

And went to the hosts Villa in heaven

[eager mountain]

Look out it’s a grippli monk

[sinful gyro]

Morphed axolotl charging at you on all 4 legs

[clever cobalt]

So, what's the opinion on Irori

[warped orbit]

The god?

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[fast hill]

I need character ideas

[clever cobalt]

I guess the vibe I get from Irori is kinda

[fast hill]

so far I have a fetchling swashbuckler who is a gothic artist

[clever cobalt]

Vaguely dickish?

Though he is LN so (by the old alignment stuff)

Also I can't help but compare him to Allison Killsixbilliondemons

Who is both exactly like him and completely opposite to him

[fast hill]

I should be a psychic conrasu

[light gyro]

strength of thousands final book spoiler!! ||oh fuck the final boss is a grim reaper and two cr 20 monsters oh FUCK||

[warped orbit]

Oh no

[light gyro]

||they even give you a jrpg full heal just before you go in. fuckin. death touch final death. nightmare.||

[eager mountain]

• shrug * idk much about him other than “ monk god of self perfection “

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[unborn rain]

He's a guy who was so great at being a monk he became a god

Which sort of means as a person he's pretty boring

[warped orbit]

||pitting a bunch of people who are probably at least partially casters against a Reaper is rough lmao. And it's still a nightmarish fight regardless ||

[turbid dagger]

Irori focuses on self improvement, which is good, but for its own sake, which is... not bad, but kind of a waste
Irori s adherents just want to be better, there's no drive to really do anything, good or bad, with that talent
Which is what puts him at LN

[frank crystal]

Honestly, going back to K6BD

He gives Master of Ki Rata vibes

Attaining perfect forms for violence but to the end of never performing violence

[light gyro]

||setup is currently wizard, bard, alchemist, magus. so fortitude-wise two experts and two masters. yikes!! !||

[warped orbit]

||yeah I meant also the super AoO it has, that disrupts on a hit and lets it teleport into range ||

[light gyro]

||the upside is that they get a +2 bonus to any arcane/primal casting they do as long as they listen to jatembe so hopefully they understand they have to nuke them down asap||

[craggy thunder]

I like him and think he's interesting

Especially cuz he considers the Test of the Starstone cheating

[unborn rain]

Considering if you're just good enough you can become a god that's a fair assessment

Also like he's from a place which has thousands of gods iirc

[rustic cape]

The most generous reading of Irori — and the one I would use — is that he is a shepherd to those who consider themselves unworthy, a guardian of those who have become lost within the maze of their own imperfections

He doesn’t tell you “you are worthy” or “accept your imperfections”, he tells you to strive, to push yourself, to improve

He tells you there’s a way out, and that way is hard but worth it

And he speaks from experience

He’s the god of strivers

[silver geyser]

God of the grindset, yes

[clever cobalt]

Fair

I guess being a god there's also a lot of in-universe interpretations of him.lol

[craggy thunder]

There's also a lot of ways 'god of self-improvement' can go

I bet you the greatest writer in the world does Irori proud, even if they worship Shelyn instead

And he'd point to such a person as a good example to his disciples

My character's master was Iroran, but a more 'typical' one

Who sought to become the greatest swordsman through studying all the techniques he could, including Aldori swordsmanship

[clever cobalt]

There's a reason I said Allison feels like both the perfect exemplar and also a complete contrast

She feels like the opposite of him in terms of expected temperment but their ideologies aren't completely unlike eaxh other in the end

[rustic cape]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1018602610602803212/1179811136225419284/Mariah_Carey.webp?ex=657b23be&is=6568aebe&hm=d6f78ed61110809a92e82421031b2905ccfd214a61967aad85ed6f226726acf4&

[crystal walrus]

So I've been a little confused

I own the old pathfinder 2e corebook

Is that a useless pdf now?

[light gyro]

i mean. the words are still on them.

[solar tendon]

it's still got lore that is mostly accurate

and pictures

and that's all the stuff that wasn't ogl anyway

[carmine egret]

There's a lot in it that still applies but that is also redundant to the new core

[crystal walrus]

Okay so if i go to play a game with it now, is that going to be an incorrect game? Like sticking to an older revision?

[carmine egret]

More or less? There's a lot that didn't change but a bunch that did

[solar tendon]

it's not that much more outdated than like. a print edition change

[carmine egret]

I think it's feasible to play a game of PF2 without encountering any mechanical deviations from the original printing

[solar tendon]

like the original 1st printing pathfinder2e rulebook has stuff like bandoliers haha

[carmine egret]

But it's not something I would say is likely

[crystal walrus]

Right

Checking if I'd need to buy a new rulebook

[light gyro]

oh for sure no. new content will be up for free on archive of nethys When It's Ready

[carmine egret]

Oh yeah with Nethys you can at the very least save some money

The Revised changes are like, one big step above errata

But a few steps below a new edition

[solar tendon]

yeah a lot of people who did get the book are just like oh wait that's it

[carmine egret]

I think Rules Lawyer's "2.1" title is fitting

[crystal walrus]

Okay

It's on my big list of systems next so

[craggy thunder]

question

You can smack people with a sword cane sheath while the sword is sheathed, right?

[light gyro]

Unless it has a fancy mechanic you can just improvise weapon it, sure

[solar tendon]

the sheath is a weapon

but yeah should work

or wait is that just the expensive one

[unborn rain]

Eqxuite sword canes the one with twin

[warped orbit]

only the Exquisite Sword Cane has the sheath as a separate weapon

[craggy thunder]

F

I'm being inspired by the Jade Fox from Crouching Tiger

[warped orbit]

it's a bit of an odd one, because it basically only exists because of one specific magic item in Edgewatch

[craggy thunder]

Where she has a sword hidden inside her fighting stick

https://youtu.be/omuNJ0d1Q7Q?t=201

[solar tendon]

I'd probably just treat a non exquisite as cheaper without twin tbh

[craggy thunder]

I mean

It is

[solar tendon]

yeah I mean using the sheath profile as well

[craggy thunder]

Oh fair

also the normal one lacks Parry

[craggy thunder]

I might be a nutjob and make my monk have 14 Charisma so I can multiclass swashbuckler instead of fighter

[solar tendon]

swash is a pretty interesting archetype I think

[craggy thunder]

Or I could do Swash instead of Barb...

[thorny berry]

honestly swash dedication isn't bad on its own for a near-permanent if minor skill and speed boost

and then riposte could be pretty spicy on a monk

[solar tendon]

yeah exactly

[thorny berry]

(though the swashbuckler speed thing wouldn't stack with monk speed I think?)

[craggy thunder]

They're not any specific type of bonus they're just more speed

[barren cipher]

i think they're status

[craggy thunder]

F

They are

I cri

So turns out it'd be a great idea

If my gameplan was more than 'hit, and hit hard'

But

I am a weapon monk

So that is kinda just my gameplan

[barren cipher]

hit hard and never get hit is a pretty good gameplan honestly

[turbid dagger]

Its true
Thats the first rule of boxing
Hit and don't get hit, you'll win every fight

[craggy thunder]

yes but swash doesn't really give me more of that

In a way I don't already have access to

[unborn rain]

+1 damage on Monks pretty cool

[turbid dagger]

I still really wanna do sword and board peafowl monk
Just the most sturdy, annoying shitter ever

[craggy thunder]

You know, fair

and specialized finishers might be useful

I was just thinking cuz most of my turns I wanna flurry

But tactical options can't hurt

[light gyro]

strength of thousands party currently consists of a wizard, bard, alchemist and laughing shadow mogus. book 3 spoiler. ||one of the big items they get at the end of this is an oathbow, which is pretty useless to them. any suggestions on better items?||

[barren cipher]

||large pile of cash, gems or similar is hard to beat, is there a particular narrative reason that it's an oathbow? can you put in a fancy elven sculpture or other objet d'art?||

[light gyro]

||its a gift from an NPC they helped earlier - their white oak bow gets transformed into a magic item after they redeemed themselves in the eyes of erastil. I'll consider shinies since they've moaned about being broke recently.||

[barren cipher]

||yeah they're gonna have to pawn it otherwise||

[light gyro]

||the final dungeon ends with a 'vault' thats just being used as a prison cell. i'll just dump a shit load of cash in there||

[turbid dagger]

This has got me looking through specific magic weapons now
Why are there so many Simple ones
When is a dude gonna use the Lionfish Spear
I guess all the daggers might be something for rogues but

[warped orbit]

yeah it's... weird

there's a lot of specific magic weapons with mediocre base types

[echo briar]

Ruffian rouges I guess

[warped orbit]

Ruffian also has martial access now

as do Rogues in general

[echo briar]

Honestly, I don't think we need simple weapons.

Like in the game

There should just be weapons and martials should get some other boost.

like weapons having a mastery trait that only unlocks with a class feature

would also make advanced weapons usable.

[turbid dagger]

Like uhhhh
More to-hit, maybe
And feats that let them make special strikes that do extra effects
🤔

[frank crystal]

Ok so I’ve thought of something very funny for one of my players starting scenes

Essentially in what he’s told me of his character’s backstory, he used to own an airship that he used as a gambling hall

Packing up and flying away whenever the laws became disadvantageous to business

But also he’s a frivolous spender and comes into and out of money quickly

And he’s told me that he already loses the airship by the time the game starts

So what I think I’m gonna run for his first scene is essentially his financials guy telling him that they’re in the red, politely requests that he puts a hold on any large expenditures until their financials stabilize

Hard cut to his airship being reposed and him being forced to sell off all his remaining assets, which just so happens to be worth exactly the starting gold of a level 3 adventurer

[craggy thunder]

Our game starts tomorrow I am extremely excited

[paper juniper]

i may have found some paths
here comes my girl

next character

for

pathfinder game i am in

i apologize for the quantity of pixels

Level 16 Unchained monk
yes our dm is insane and cooking something fierce

this is sharing but also asking for feedback on stuff
plus maybe also gushing and nerding out that it came out this good :3

[frank crystal]

It’s so fucked curse maelstrom gives your GM permission to just say “you know, I didn’t actually like that you succeeded on that roll. Fuck you roll again”

Taking this archetype just gives you GM a massive “fuck you” button and it’s very funny

[surreal basin]

Oh the player has to consent to it tho

The gm OFFERS the reroll

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

Yah I misread that then

[craggy thunder]

I think I might change my monk from a tasmanian devil beastkin

to a squirrel beastkin lmao

[craggy thunder]

This squirrel's gonna fucking kick your ass

[surreal basin]

Mmmm

I’m gonna run season of ghosts at some point

[frank crystal]

So while I’ve got phase 2 mostly figured out

I still need phase 1 for my swordsman boss fights

Before he regains his composure and summons his sword

So instead he’s just feral and fighting barehanded

And I’m kinda wondering what would be good for that?

I feel like one thing I probably wanna do at least is give him a shit ton of different unarmed attacks

A punch, a kick, a bite, a claw

Also maybe a way to regenerate health from damaging?

[turbid dagger]

Give him Rend and Pounce

[frank crystal]

YES

Well that isn’t what I was trying to search at all google

[turbid dagger]

[frank crystal]

What monster has rend and pounce?

Trying to look it up has mostly just been like, forum boards asking if the PCs can pounce

[worthy stump]

giant solifugid and giant badger both have 'em

[frank crystal]

[turbid dagger]

Wolverines, Giant Solifugids, Weretigers, the Grisantian Lion
That may well be it

[worthy stump]

it's mostly those two, the other monsters in their family and weretigers

yeah, the others are unique

[turbid dagger]

The Grisantian Lion is actually intended to be a high level superboss so it may be a good reference point

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

[turbid dagger]

Oh, I mean the Grogrisant

[frank crystal]

Is it a lemean lion type thing?

Ohhh

[turbid dagger]

The Grisantian Lion is a deleveled 'minor' version of the Grogrisant

Which is indeed basically the nemean lion

[frank crystal]

THIS LION CAN CAST FIRE SHIELD

[clever cobalt]

The Frogrisant is scary

That is a typo but I'm keeping it

[frank crystal]

It’s a good typo

[turbid dagger]

Monsters Of Myth does not fuck around

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

The Elder Linnworm is scary

[turbid dagger]

Dual Pounce into Rend

[clever cobalt]

As is the Spawn of Rogrouz

[frank crystal]

Holy shit this thing can damage armor

[clever cobalt]

Yep

[frank crystal]

I thought like, only black slimes could

[clever cobalt]

Be afraid

[frank crystal]

That’s fucked up

[clever cobalt]

Monsters of Myth is a good book

[frank crystal]

Honestly I’m just gonna throw these guys at my PCs

Yah they’re kinda weak by their level

But they’re still cool

Also with how i want this guy’s main motif to be like, eyes of a predator

Giving him a fear action makes sense

[unborn rain]

Desert's Howl is fucked up

just some guy in the desert being an ass

[unborn rain]

Remaster is out on Pathbuilder

[turbid dagger]

As a beta release, right?
I was told by one of my fellow players in our SOT game to be sure to back up chars first

[unborn rain]

I don't think so

I heard about a beta release but didnt see one, So I assume this is the actual release

[paper juniper]

in the crimbo pathfinder game
Santa Claus just expanded his domain
oh god oh fuck

[frank crystal]

Holy fuck

[turbid dagger]

Is his domain his workshop
Hence why it cannot actually be located by searching the north pole

[frank crystal]

Domain Expansion: The Saint’s Workshop

[craggy thunder]

Someone is trying to convince our gm to use dual-class instead of free archetype lol

[frank crystal]

I do wanna run a dual class game one of these days

Just not like, for any normal game

[craggy thunder]

I’m intrigued to see if she goes for it lmao

[warped orbit]

Dual Class is very funny

[craggy thunder]

I mean if she goes for it

Monk/Swash baby

I’ll take the free full features of the duelist class for my dueling monk

Without the Charisma requirement for archetyping

Fuck it

Okay now I kinda want my gm to go for it

[turbid dagger]

Monk Rogue dual was always insane but with the remaster thief I want to see it even more

[craggy thunder]

Nah, Swash fits more for the one handed weapon duelist build

[turbid dagger]

Oh no I don't mean in your context
Just in general
But yeah the mild skornegy between flurry and finishers aside monk swash seems cool

[craggy thunder]

Yeah

[craggy thunder]

I mean I just get to have a passive damage bonus for my attacks until I finish someone off

[warped orbit]

oh yeah that would slap

[craggy thunder]

And also maneuvers like leading dance and etc

[warped orbit]

literally lmao

[craggy thunder]

If she goes for dual class of course

[frank crystal]

Oh yah sneak attack on unarmed now

Holy shit that’s insane

[turbid dagger]

That's true! And maybe you can do something silly with combination finisher

Combo finish on a flat footed target shakes out to a standard Agile MAP attack so that's pretty good
Especially if you go Braggart to bring the number back up further with demoralizes

[frank crystal]

Elf monk rogue for maximum speed build

[warped orbit]

you could do it with unarmed before
the change is that Thief can get Dex to damage on unarmed now

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

Yah right

My B

[craggy thunder]

God I bet dual class magus/witch fucks

[barren cipher]

like unarmed?

[thorny berry]

I feel like the fundamental issue with dual class is that martial/martial lets you double dip your, idk, rage damage and legendary prof on a single strike but casting has no real equivalent (besides maybe loading up magus/summoner with a proper caster chassis)

.....well, okay absolutely not 'the' lol

but A Thing that constrains it and how a group plays with it

[turbid dagger]

I suppose the idea is that you can hurl out top level slots constantly

[trail nova]

… I think my experience with lv. 30 3.5 Tristalt makes me a bit more fine with dual class than other people are.

[warped orbit]

you get way more spells with dual caster, but each one is still the same power

while dual martial is actually additive, because you can stack your Strike boosters together

especially Fighter dual just makes any other martial way stronger

[turbid dagger]

I guess my thought is that like
Being able to use your top slots every fight instead of every other fight is the damage boost there

[frank crystal]

Yah dual class profs basically go to the highest possible right?

[solar tendon]

tbf this is. exactly why the dual class rules recommend adjudicating martial/martial

[turbid dagger]

lmao

[barren cipher]

honestly doubling up on caster is pretty strong

being able to just spam top level spell slots is hard to beat

[turbid dagger]

staff nexus wizard/ twisting tree magus 🤔
Your whole arcane study culminates in this: the perfect stick

[barren cipher]

you can even split the difference and do like wizard/war cleric

[turbid dagger]

Uh, on the topic of staff nexus
What is its actual benefit? I'm having trouble parsing the staff rules, the staff nexus' specific rules, and how it shakes out to a benefit

[warped orbit]

staff nexus is... kinda weird

[trail nova]

Personally I think internal party balance in dual class is pretty fair.

[warped orbit]

basically what it really does is let you add one cantrip and one 1st level spell to any staff

and later on you can spend more slots on staff charges

[clever cobalt]

Did the remaster intertwine PF2e heavier with Golarion?

[turbid dagger]

On the face of it it seems like 'one cantrip and a level 1 spell slot you have to fill with other spells, that you can slap onto other staffs later'
Yeah

[clever cobalt]

Or is it roughly the same

[turbid dagger]

Roughly the same

[clever cobalt]

Cause I know some wizard schools reference Golarion schools

[warped orbit]

that's basically all it does, yes
and the being able to expend multiple slots on staves

[turbid dagger]

The new wizard schools of study are fairly generic

[warped orbit]

overall its still not really that great of a thesis IMO

but its generally hard to contend with Spell Blending

[turbid dagger]

Its like
'you use magic to build things'
'you use magic to kill'
'you use magic to FLESH'

[clever cobalt]

Flesh! Flesh!

[eager mountain]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1992349969?filter=archives&sort=time

" MORE GOOGERT "

[turbid dagger]

Okay, most of the schools do mention actual Golarion magic schools, but they also have a wider theme that is more important
Its more suggestions of where you may have studied than 'you are a Magaambya Wizard what does Magaambya Magic'

[solar tendon]

mm

I like unified magic theory for a cascade bearer

battle magic and tempest sun are buds ofc

[turbid dagger]

Are they the ones that get to take halcyon spells from any tradition

[solar tendon]

eventually yeah

civic wizardry feels very magaambya in general but emerald boughs especially

[turbid dagger]

Makes sense
(Apropos to nothing but am I the only dude who feels like Uzunjati should be bards)

[clever cobalt]

How is this anyways?

[solar tendon]

our bard was

and our investigator

[clever cobalt]

I'm debating making a Fleshwarp wizard with this school

[frank crystal]

Ngl universal theory seems like the best one

[solar storm]

I think it’s good that there isn’t a “Magaambya School” since it probably encompasses a bunch of them

[clever cobalt]

It always has been yeah

[turbid dagger]

I dunno, I ain't never playing wizard lmao

[turbid dagger]

My summoner in SOT is one, and our gm let me pick bard as my normally wizard or druid only free archetype
Both for more Cha casting and because it fits the Uzunjati

And because inspire heroics kind of whips with act together 👀

[solar tendon]

one thing I think is funny about druid and wizard

is that druids immediately know all their spells

[clever cobalt]

It was revealed to them in a dream

[solar tendon]

and then the stat bonuses also encourage that to be like

the wizard leaning players are like super studying to learn spells while the druid leaning ones are just breezing through like a leaf on a wind sdfkjf

really sad my sot game fell through :T

[turbid dagger]

Awww
Yeah, that's a shame

[surreal basin]

Hey y’all

I have a reccomendation if you plan on ever playing Season of Ghosts

Stay away from ANYTHING about it