Pathfinder

[frank crystal]

You just gotta wait a few decades for Vietnam and suddenly the average American soldier is level 10 just because he’s wearing a flak jacket and has a M16

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[surreal basin]

Yeah

The maxim gun exists in 2e

Not 2e

1e

Even

[clever cobalt]

Can't wait until 1945 :v

When uh

Things get scary

[frank crystal]

That would be a very fun plot hook

Someone brought an earth made nuke to Golarion

Something greater then the strongest destructive spell

[clever cobalt]

And can't be counter-magicked/nullified either

Due to entirely being technology and hard science

[frank crystal]

Yah

[clever cobalt]

For some reason that seems like an Absalom Adventure plot

[frank crystal]

This thing has stats equivalent to fortress plate

[clever cobalt]

Regardless a nuke could be be interesting

No one knows how to disable it

So you gotta head to Earth to find someone who can

Oppenheimer 2: Golarion Harder

[frank crystal]

How easy is it travel between earth and Golarion?

[clever cobalt]

Uhhhhh

Not sure

Baba Yaga jumps planets, and spaceships do exist

Both scifi and spelljammer varieties

[frank crystal]

Wait it’s not two dimensions, they’re just two different planets?

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

They're literally in the same galaxy

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

I always assumed it was a planes thing

[clever cobalt]

Nope

They canonically exist in the same universe

Just different planets

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

[warped orbit]

Yeah Earth the planet is in the same universe

Just pretty far away

[frank crystal]

You think by the time of starfinder they’re both space faring civilizations?

[clever cobalt]

Earth is an unknown in Starfinder

But it's possible

[frank crystal]

Damn

Honestly part of me wants to see an alt history where in like 1930 something Golarion and earth are like, fully connected

Just a big portal from one to another opens in Russia

[clever cobalt]

My headcanon is Earth, due to Dark Tapestry influence, no longer has a "masquerade" in play, but Earth Humans work with Dark Tapestry factions and keep their planet secret from everyone else

They oppose the uh

Evil-er Dark Tapestry guys

Whatever they're called

Dominion of the Black

[frank crystal]

What do they wanna do?

[clever cobalt]

I could see Earth be like, a "capital" of the Dark Tapestry that opposes the Dominion of the Black, and keep their planet secret out of pragmatism

[clever cobalt]

The Dominion? Iirc they wanna replace the Outer Gods and/or Great Old Ones

They're so bad even Nyarlathotep opposes them

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

Oh that’s not good

[clever cobalt]

They show up in the Iron Gods ap

And also are a faction in Starfinder

[frank crystal]

Also wait

If Golarion and earth are just in the same universe

Doesn’t that mean the divine is also real in earth?

[clever cobalt]

Yes

Sorta

They're ambigious on what the Abrahamic God is

Among other things

Though people think the Monad may be the closest equivalant

[frank crystal]

But on some level the religions of earth are real though?

[clever cobalt]

We don't know

It's possible

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

[clever cobalt]

Osirion does share a Pantheon with ancient Egypt so

There's that

[frank crystal]

Oh yah I forgot about that

The Egyptian gods are in the list of deities

[clever cobalt]

And again, there is Cthulhu and Lovecraft stuff in Pathfinder

[frank crystal]

True

[clever cobalt]

Cthulhu is canonically on Earth

[clever cobalt]

But yeah that could be interesting

Golarion is a very high fantasy setting with all kinds of shit going on, while Earth is a high technology setting with eldritch stuff behind the curtain

[frank crystal]

Yah

[clever cobalt]

America would get along with Alkenstar and maybe Andoran

[frank crystal]

Absolutely Alkenstar

Alkenstar sees a Thompson and begins to cry tears of joy

[clever cobalt]

Tbh given the Mana Wastes lack magic, I think an Earth Military base there is completely plausible

At least in a safe-ish spot

[clever cobalt]

And Alkenstar would be very interested in Earth Guns

Because they operate without any magic and are vastly superior to Golarion firearms

[frank crystal]

Yah Alkenstar being one of the few places where magic isn’t common in Golarion also just gives a lot of leeway to the earth humans

To actually find a place to stabilize

[clever cobalt]

Hell, there's a whole AP in 2e about the invention of Dynamite in Alkenstar, and it's discovery shakes the political foundations of Alkenstar

And Earth had dynamite for, what, 50 years prior at least?

[frank crystal]

Oh which one?

[clever cobalt]

Outlaws of Alkenstar

[frank crystal]

Also yah if we’re going off the idea it’s 1930s earth

[clever cobalt]

It isn't called Dynamite but it's pretty obviously Dynamite

[frank crystal]

And they’ve had explosives in general for centuries at that point

[clever cobalt]

30s Earth is also going through a great depression and a lot of political tension (e.g., the rise of the Nazi Party in Europe, the aforementioned Great Depression..)

[frank crystal]

Also like, I can only imagine the religious unrest in America with the knowledge there’s another world out there with sapient life

And that world has like, physical proof of the existence of gods

[clever cobalt]

With actual gods involved daily

Yeah

I imagine Absalom would have a few new embassies within a few months

[frank crystal]

And I can only imagine discovering a whole new world with its own societies will not help

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[frank crystal]

Yah

[clever cobalt]

And there's also the whole Starstone thing

[frank crystal]

Oh yah

[clever cobalt]

Baba Yaga herself would be interesting

As she's an Earth-born witch

And a living legend on Golarion

[frank crystal]

Yah

[clever cobalt]

Tied with Jatambe with being the literal strongest caster in the setting

Even Nex and Geb don't compare

[frank crystal]

Actually like, can people from earth learn magic (as a wizard)/magic users in Golarion use it in earth?

[clever cobalt]

(Jatembe and her are also friends)

Yeah I don't see why not

[warped orbit]

Yes

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

[clever cobalt]

Baba Yaga did

[warped orbit]

Rasputin became an Oracle during Reign of Winter for example

[clever cobalt]

She was once a farmgirl in Eastern Europe who encountered a fae who taught her magic

And the rest is history

Regardless

I can definitely see uh

Sponsorships for casters on Earth

[frank crystal]

Yah I was more just thinking the more, learned casting styles

Because witch and Oracle both are kinda, natural casters

You don’t learn magic itself something else grants it to you

[clever cobalt]

I do wanna point out. The vaccine was just invented on Golarion and it's a huge deal. The person who invented it is basically being sought after by every faction in the inner sea

[frank crystal]

Oh, wait where vaccines a thing in the 30s?

[clever cobalt]

Earth has its own leverage, I can see a "give us magic and we'll give you tech" thing going on

[clever cobalt]

I think?

Yeah they were invented in their earliest form in uh

1796

[sinful gyro]

Ye

[clever cobalt]

Though they changed a lot since then

Regardless

[frank crystal]

Oh wow they’re older then I thought

[clever cobalt]

Penicilin

Don't underestimate Penicilin

[frank crystal]

Oh yah

That

[sinful gyro]

So like, the nature of vaccines has changed a ton

The small pox one literally just infected you with small pox

[frank crystal]

Damn

[sinful gyro]

But it was in a small weakened viral load you could manage

Most of the time

[frank crystal]

Ok yah it was less bad small pox at least

[sinful gyro]

So then you could fight it off from other sources

[clever cobalt]

Modern vaccines operate on a similar principle

It's just safer

[frank crystal]

Yah just not literally infecting you with the disease lol

[clever cobalt]

Less weakened and more like uh

[sinful gyro]

More like target practise

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[barren cipher]

they did cowpox right

[clever cobalt]

Yes

[sinful gyro]

Ye

[clever cobalt]

Regardless

[sinful gyro]

Which was similar enough for the immnue system to respond to the full blown small pox

But they'd still basically throw a scab on you and get you sick

[clever cobalt]

1930s Earth has a lot of tech and science that Golarion would go apeshit over

Remember how prevelant magic is in Golarion

[warped orbit]

Small incision on the arm, and then you intentionally infect it

[sinful gyro]

IIRC Golarion has tesla coils now and they're very interested in them

[clever cobalt]

And Earth can do a lot of the same (and more, in some cases) without it

Yeah

In Ustalav, naturally

[warped orbit]

Stasian tech is wild

[clever cobalt]

Regardless uh

Arcane and Occult magic can be taught

Maybe Primal as well; I forget exactly

[barren cipher]

depends on your source i expect but i think anyone can be a druid

[clever cobalt]

I can definitely see Earth nations offering generous sponsorship for any casters who'd teach people magic on Earth

Especially in the areas of War, given the state of things

[barren cipher]

energy crisis solved

[clever cobalt]

Or potentially scions of Earth Old Money being sent to prominent magic schools on Golarion

[sinful gyro]

While they deffwouldnb't say no to magic, for earth I imagine it's a scale thing

They're just starting up war time industrial production

1 wizard dies to like, 10 guys with guns

[clever cobalt]

I doubt Magaambyan would accept anyone though

I think

[sinful gyro]

But 1 wizard could also like, completely mess up enemy defenses by portaling behind them

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

They work best as support I think

Earth has pretty deadly weaponry already

But magic opens routes to use said weaponry, per se

Gun Magus....

[sinful gyro]

Magic is used by spec ops teams only

[clever cobalt]

Yep

Pass without a trace would be useful

As would invisibility

I do wonder if Golarion Religions would find followers on Earth

Given uh

They're actively present

[sinful gyro]

Aroden is jesus

[clever cobalt]

Except he died in the 1800s

Or late 1700s

[sinful gyro]

Yeah but his whole deal is coming back

[clever cobalt]

True

Part of me wants to say a Golarion Wizard would try to figure who this "Yahweh" is

And upon trying to contact them, they'd end up dying horribly

For reasons no one can discern (but enough to put off future attempts)

[frank crystal]

I’d imagine the people who worship the Egyptian pantheon would have a field day though

[paper juniper]

what the frick yall on about

[frank crystal]

Alt history where Golarion and earth just have a permanent portal opened between them

[paper juniper]

is this because of the wierd irl stuff like fuckin The Sex Machine himself

https://tenor.com/view/распутин-рараспутин-россия-империя-распутинскиймир-gif-21423446

[rotund geode]

Hello

Took me a while to find this

[sinful gyro]

It's cos there's a portal to earth in Golarion ye

[paper juniper]

the lover of the russian queen
the cat that really was gone
russia's greatest love machine

[frank crystal]

You think worship of the ancient Egyptian pantheon would have a rival?

With how they’re a god which we know from earth

Which has literal proof of their existences

[surreal basin]

Important note

[unborn rain]

I think it'd very funny if a portal opened to a magical unique different world and then we find it's geographically and culturally extremely similar to Earth at variying points in time

[surreal basin]

Is that earth in pathfinder is basically a big antimagic zone

Thus why no word on the majority of gods and their status

[frank crystal]

Oh I thought you could still cast spells there though?

[surreal basin]

You can but I don’t remember why

Normally you can’t

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

[surreal basin]

I think rasputin has like a big magic thingy set up or something

[paper juniper]

the SEX machine? 👀

[wary yoke]

I love Reign of Winter

[surreal basin]

What do y’all think the biggest threat to golarion rn is

Like if they were to do a big epic wrath of the righteous ass main campaign

What would you want it to be

[wary yoke]

I think the biggest threat has reverted back to Tar-Baphon

I would like, though, for Razmir to make a big move

[silver geyser]

Yeah, it's Tar Baphon

[turbid dagger]

Tar Baphon seems right- the War Of The Immortals is probably gonna bring New Big Fucking Problems, also
The very likely upcoming Geb/Nex war and its aftermath has the potential to be as big a problem for Garund as Tar Baphon is for Avistan imo

[clever cobalt]

Because of two extremely powerful wizards duking it out?

[clever cobalt]

and the upcoming God War, if that counts

[surreal basin]

God I’m so hype for mythic rules

[clever cobalt]

but that's basically a given

if there was ever a time to do a WotR-esque 2e module

it's War of the Immortals

especialyl since WotR and WotI are both related to the Mythic Rules of their respective editions

[unborn rain]

If Geb and/or Nex ascends I think that'd be a very big threat

as it'd restart the war, but after the long peace they've become economically entangled with the world

The worlds largest bread basket suddenly exploding would be bad

[surreal basin]

The bloodlords ap has a lot of very interesting notes on that

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, two of the most powerful wizards doing the thing that made the mana wastes again
That and Geb (the country)likely won't be exporting much food after Nex (the country) turns half the country into radioactive glass or whatever Nex (the guy)'s new arch spell does
Alkenstar will become like
Midway Atoll or some shit

[unborn rain]

Alkenstar becoming a third party in the war is what I'd imagine, gaining outside support from somewhere like Kelesh

Somewhere large and powerful which would love to have a shit ton of guns

[clever cobalt]

how so?

and yeah, Alkenstar is terrified of the war (for good reason)

[surreal basin]

||one of the endings of bloodlords has you unbind Geb from his resting place and maybe start to become a god||

[thorny berry]

I am curious what they end up doing with mythic rules

and how thye go about not just making it a redo of relics

[turbid dagger]

My thoughts has always been like
Free Archetype with Mythic tagged archetypes like Angel or Sword Saint and so on

[clever cobalt]

Isn't mythic post-level 20 stuff though

Though yeah it'll likely use the Tag system

With Mythic and Archetype Tags

[rustic cape]

Nah Mythic in PF1e was concurrent with normal leveling

You may be thinking of Epic Levels from 3.X

[clever cobalt]

Mhm

[surreal basin]

Yeah mythic was unrelated to actual leveling which I adore

[clever cobalt]

One thing I like about PF1e APs vs 2e APs is uh

1e APs felt like they mattered I guess?

2e APs seem more about defending the status quo

[surreal basin]

Ye

[clever cobalt]

While 1e APs revolves around changes in the Status Quo

Not a universal applicable statement but

[turbid dagger]

Mythic was basically a second, concurrent leveling track with less milestones on it
Which is more or less free archetype

[clever cobalt]

I'd like a 2e AP where the actions of the PCs feel like the mattered I guess

In a way that wasn't defending the Status Quo

Only one I can think of is uh, Outlaws of Alkenstar

[surreal basin]

Tbh I hope mythic aren’t just normal archetypes

[clever cobalt]

With ||Dynamite being invented and the recipe "getting out" and being made public||

[turbid dagger]

Well, we did just discuss something in blood lords that heavily changes the status quo

[surreal basin]

Because that’ll end up being “okay class, do you wanna be an archer or NAGAROYTH DESTROYER OF BLADES”

[clever cobalt]

||Resulting in a Mana Wastes Gold Rush of sorts, which in turn benefits the societies of the Mana Wastes to the point where its implied some new societies may arise||

[rustic cape]

Especially since everyone loves free archetype and that'd make it awkward to use alongside the mythic stuff

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[clever cobalt]

True!

[surreal basin]

If it ends up not being seperate I’ll probably just end up running FA ‘twice’ eventually

*essentially

[clever cobalt]

Blood Lords, Alkenstar, and Strength of Thousands feel like the most "influential" per se

[surreal basin]

Letting you take a mythic and a non mythic

[clever cobalt]

And yeah I've never played a game without FA tbh

It's like

An optional rule everyone seems to use

[turbid dagger]

I mean, it'd be free archetype with restrictions like SOT assumedly
With free archetype Mythic only for a mythic campaign

[surreal basin]

Right yeah

[clever cobalt]

I just realized these are all set in Garund

[surreal basin]

I just mean if you want something else that feels almost like a downgrade

And yeah I actually like that 2e APs have been focused away from inner sea for a while now

[clever cobalt]

Same

Though I do wish we got more lore on Inner Sea nations in 2e admittedly >_>

Given how often they come up

[rustic cape]

I think a big part of it is the PF2e has The Charbuilding Juice and Free Archetype enhances that

[turbid dagger]

One recent AP has the potential for like
Universe redefining changes
But I have been advised to talk less about it so I won't say which

[clever cobalt]

Uh

||Stolen Fate?||

||cause a large part of that AP is the reintroduction of Fate in the setting (even if iirc its doomed to failure)||

||Plus as often talked about, the last book has foreshadowing about future APs, including potentially the War of Immortals||

[turbid dagger]

You know I did say I've been advised to talk less about it
I was just saying that generally I think the APs are pretty good at making you feel like you did something

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[rustic cape]

Question: aside from the rules in the Kingmaker AP and the Seasoned feat, are there any specific rules for cooking?

[turbid dagger]

There are alchemical food items now that use alchemical crafting rules, also

[turbid dagger]

So, what are the general thresholds where a dragon is considered young/adult/ancient?
Thinking about a young dragon in a position of authority (in their mortal disguise)
Like, is an 80 year old dragon Young because its young by dragon standards

[heavy fulcrum]

3.5 and PF1 both used these https://i.imgur.com/ybe2p7g.png

i dont think this is included in 2e but i also dont think they've provided a new version

[worthy stump]

yeah, afaik they haven't made any charts like that for dragons in 2e. they seem to be trying to keep age categories more vague for most things, ancestries included

[turbid dagger]

So condensing all these, I should assume that anything younger than 100 is Young, and anything older than that but younger than 800 is an Adult

[frank crystal]

I forget, are automatons immune to bleed/getting blood sucked by vampires?

[worthy stump]

they are not

[frank crystal]

Damn

[sinful gyro]

Vampires bite down like they're siphoning gas from a car

[worthy stump]

slurp up all that soul juice

[eager mountain]

things slip through every now and then

theres one society adventure where you meet a russian Troop of dudes that are just trapped on golarion

and you gotta help em

[eager mountain]

probably soul essence.

[frank crystal]

Oh neat

[eager mountain]

unrelated

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

I only now realize shard strike deals the bleed damage/clumsy on a crit fail

Not just normally

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, thats why I prefer Hail Of Splinters
Lower base die on damage and bleed but you get the bleed by default

[frank crystal]

yah this discovery makes shard strike way worse then I thought

[turbid dagger]

Its still 1d6 in a 15 foot cone which is nice, but yeah its not MEATY

[frank crystal]

yah, honestly I think Im gonna ask my Gm to rework my puire metal kineticist to metal fire earlier then I thought

so instead of pure metal I take metal fire

[turbid dagger]

I do like the fire kineticist basic damage impulse
The one that's an ICON Arc

[frank crystal]

I mean that’s just a d6 of fire damage on a basic reflex save

That just seems worse then shard strike

Less versatile and no chance of the worse effects

[turbid dagger]

Yes, but it uses an AOE pattern which, afaik, is unique to it
You choose each space it enters as if you were controlling a creatures movement
So you can fire it into a big clusterfuck and snake it around your allies to hit all your enemies

[frank crystal]

oh thats neat yah

[heavy fulcrum]

flying flame, yeah https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4238

[thorny berry]

oh hey been gettin use out of that myself

yeah it's solid

and of course fire impulses generally can eventually get that weakness proc (if close enough) and increased die size

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

I’m looking over wrestler

So many of these feats need unarmed melee attacks

This isn’t nearly as good for kineticist as I thought

I’m still gonna go for it I think

Because the stuff I can go for is still good

But damn

[thorny berry]

yeah I think the other bummer about it is that most of it is MAP, too

I think it's literally just whirling throw that isn't

gotta go barb if you want thrash (and also thrash isn't very good)

simply another argument in favor of the champion shield-grappler build I swear I'm gonna play someday

[frank crystal]

I think for wrestler I’m gonna grab crushing grab, disengaging twist, whirlwind throw, spinebreaker

None of these require unarmed strikes and don’t trigger MAP

[thorny berry]

I regret to inform you that spinebreaker does

athletics to grapple, grapple is MAP

[frank crystal]

Ah damn

[thorny berry]

those are the ones that are the most disappointing really

[frank crystal]

Still that’s solid

If something doesn’t escape my grapple after 1 turn

[thorny berry]

because I thought like 'alright I could get one grab in and then King chain grab them to inflict a bunch of shit'

[frank crystal]

I can enfeeble them

[thorny berry]

but ehhh not really

true

[turbid dagger]

I do like wrestler a lot but it does very much serve folks who will already be punching

(I do like Thrash tho 😠)

[thorny berry]

it's cool conceptually iirc somebody ran numbers and it's like only worth it at map 10 or something

power attack syndrome smh

[turbid dagger]

Punch, Press (like Combat Grab), Thrash is a pretty solid grapple strat tho

[thorny berry]

ye just sort of unfortunate to only be useful when you don't have to move (or once you're hasted)

[turbid dagger]

Indeed, it's something you do opportunistically
Or play Animal Barb for Pounce :3

[thorny berry]

I kinda wanted to open with this if I ever do that champion build: https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=402

[turbid dagger]

Wrestler Champion sounds v fun
DFO Male Priest

[frank crystal]

Ok so I’ve revised my metal kineticist build

It’s now a metal fire kineticist build

Soon to be earth

Though honestly, the more I look at it the better it would be to just grab earth fire

So I can grab lava leap at 4

Go Metal at 5th level

And then grab molten wire at 6

But it’s fine honestly

Being a little inefficient with it and grabbing lava leap at 8th

Especially since like, there’s not much else good at 8th anyway

[turbid dagger]

Lava Leap is sooooooooooo good

[frank crystal]

It is

It’s very good

And I do want it

But I’ll hold off on it

For the time being

I can resist the urge to be optimal for my characters story

for now

I forget can kineticist eventually replace their impulse feats?

Ok they can at 11th level

That’s still quite the ways away

[turbid dagger]

You can also just retrain afaik

[frank crystal]

I mean, yah

But like, I don’t wanna be an ass to my GM and say “I know my character is defined by his relationship to metal but can I make it so I actually started with earth and fire so I can take this good feat earlier then I would otherwise?”

Like being specifically a metal kineticist is like, everything to my character

It’s a defining part of them

The fire and earth are there but metal is their focus

[turbid dagger]

Honestly
You could ask them to reflavor it as a metal/fire hybrid impulse
Its not a big leap

Just snag earth before you get molten wire and balance is restored

[frank crystal]

Oh I more mean like, I don’t want to ask if I can make it so my 1st level stuff was fire and earth and my 5th level was metal

Wait

Wait wait wait

I just realized

When I expand my gate I can take a feat from that element

Including a composite feats

I can lava leap at 5th level anyway

I’m fine actually

[turbid dagger]

Indeed!

[frank crystal]

I don’t have to wait at all for it

I never realized

Ok sweet Nevermind

I’m absolutely fine waiting 1 more level for it

[turbid dagger]

Hope you enjoy
Lava Leap melee blaster is an idea I've long been infatuated with

[frank crystal]

Especially since blazing wave is pretty good just on its own

Like 4d6 fire damage in a 30 foot cone is a pretty insane AOE

[frank crystal]

I’ve been wanting to play one since kineticist came out

And i finally am

Just need to survive another level to get lava leap lol

So yah that opens up this build way sooner

I’ll get molten wire at 6 and now I can actually grab a level 8 impulse at 8

Hmm, the question is now is what to do when I’m not expanding the gates

Getting the metal impulse junction could be nice

Just dealing damage back whenever I get hit (assuming I use a 2 action impulse every round anyway) is solid for a frontline build like this

Oh wait no

When you fork the path you can’t take composite feats

I was looking at expanding the gate

Shit

So I’m kinda back to square one of needing to take lava leap at level 6 for this build

[turbid dagger]

Oh my god Remorhazes are in 2e
This D&D art is like a foundational memory for me so I am greatly pleased https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/1/19/Remorhaz4e.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150904033617

I've started a bookmark folder called 'PF2e monsters I think are cool'

[turbid dagger]

Okay uhhhhh
What sounds like a better level 1 boss
A single Street Skelm
Or a large Bloodlash Bush and two Zombie Shamblers

[surreal basin]

Probably the latter

Single bosses for first level are super hard

[turbid dagger]

This also lets me save the skelm for later if this brain rot takes full hold and I try and expand into a 1-11 instead of just a oneshot

[paper juniper]

these are my feat choices for a level 16 unchained monk in a campaign i'm in
thoughts?

and reccomendations too

[clever cobalt]

1e?

[unborn rain]

I don't know how good Grapple is in pathfinder 1e

I know trips very good

As trip can let you stop someone getting a full round of attacks off

but I assume you got improved Grapple off of Bonus Monk feats so you might not have any other good options

[eager mountain]

it kinda sucked if you werent a strength build

[paper juniper]

yee

[paper juniper]

guess what i am a str build

[paper juniper]

yeee

[frank crystal]

They’re the worst I love them

Utterly horrible creature and I have been ambushed by them so many times

But they’re also so cool

Also I think to represent a NPC who uses just a shit ton of weapons at once, I think I’m going to just give them a bunch of attacks for each weapon and various duos

[craggy thunder]

Joshua Graham be like

[frank crystal]

Do love holy firearms in fiction

Revered guns

[echo briar]

Which class do you think is going to change the most in PC2, the swashbuckler, oracle, or investigator.

All three are slated for changes

[warped orbit]

Oracle

[turbid dagger]

Is the champion coming in PC2 or is it PC1

[warped orbit]

PC2

[turbid dagger]

But yeah I figure of the three listed it'd probably be Oracle?
Excited to see Investigator tho

[echo briar]

Oracle feels relatively minor. just removing alignment damage

maybe some slight changes to curses.

[turbid dagger]

Champion feels like the class that will def change the most but its not one of those three

[echo briar]

Swashbuckler has a lot of issues

[warped orbit]

I would at least hope that Oracle gets some more substantial changes

[turbid dagger]

Swashbuckler is workable, its pain points are fairly minor imo
One of its panache gaining actions has a Stride baked in

[warped orbit]

I really want Curses to give a granted spell list, so that they actually have thematic spells to use with their stuff
and aren't just forced to scrounge around with Divine Access

[echo briar]

I feel like the oracle will get the cleric treatment, while investigator will need witch treatment

[warped orbit]

Oracles are also ironically kinda shafted with the new focus rules, because their curse still limits you in focus spell use

Investigator I think mostly works and just needs some tweaks

would like to see Devise become a free action all the time though

[turbid dagger]

That would kick ass

[warped orbit]

it still has quite a few restrictions regardless, so I don't think it's too strong

[echo briar]

What investigator needs is built in ways to spend its turn when DS fails.

[warped orbit]

that too yes

[echo briar]

They get one good attack, and after that they kinda suck

[turbid dagger]

There are some other things I think would be neat but I'm no game designer
Forensic being able to use int for Medicine would be nice so your not MAD on mental stats

[echo briar]

So without non attack things to do, making it a free action would just exacerbate the problem.

[warped orbit]

god please

they gave it to Chirurgeon already

so here's hoping

[turbid dagger]

Oh thats cool
Alchemist is a big dead zone in my PF knowledge so I didn't know that

[warped orbit]

happened in the last errata

well okay technically IIRC it just lets them substitute Crafting for Medicine for all purposes

[echo briar]

Also, alchemist will change the most in PC2. I didn't list them because its not close

[turbid dagger]

That's
A little silly but I guess it saves them skill boosts so nice
Rather than 'using alchemical knowledge to treat wounds' the mental image it brings to mind is kind of
'fix person like I fix cabinet'

[silver geyser]

Hey, if you know how to handle complex chemistry and proper dosing, you're already well on your way to modern medicine.

[solar tendon]

difference between learning first aid and learning medical science

[silver geyser]

Besides, there's some ancestries where common medical knowledge as we understand it wouldn't be the right call.

Androids, Automaton, Conrasu...

Elves are from an entirely different planet and biosphere even.

[turbid dagger]

I think the elf issue, at least, is partly addressed by the universe being intelligently designed in PF
Like, most life follows broadly the same blueprint because they all came out of the same workshop
But yes stitching a conrasu or automaton back together is a little odd

[silver geyser]

There's also the various undead too.

[echo briar]

well that requires a feat.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, Stitch Flesh bridges that gap

[silver geyser]

Yep yep.

But yeah. Most of medicine is just getting a body to a point where it can fix itself.

[clever cobalt]

Automatons are a bit weird thematically due to having to make them uh

[turbid dagger]

On that note: Man I really want to play a Zombie some time
So few games fit it but the Archetype has so much cool stuff

[clever cobalt]

Not weird mechanically

[silver geyser]

Yeah, Zombie is pretty rad.

I'd consider it for a circus sideshow if I ever played Extinction Curse. 😛

I'd also consider it for Ruby Phoenix, because what doesn't fit there?

[turbid dagger]

I was kind of thinking Fist Of The Ruby Phoenix myself yeah
Some martial ascetic who ritually mummified themselves when they grew old and their soul remained bound to their husk of a body
And now they just Keep Fighting

[light gyro]

was worried that this level 11 priest at the end of a long dungeon would destroy the party but so far she's:
crit failed against grisly growths and lost half her health
cast fifth level phantasmal killer against a magus who crit succeeded
it's so over

[surreal basin]

Alright so my tournament arc

I have the first day of it set up as a battle royale

Which is a modified chase subsystem

I want four obstacles
One is a huge crowd of people
Another is a mage firing explosions
I need two more ideas

[turbid dagger]

Dude riding huge animal

[surreal basin]

oooo maybe

im also adding a giant for them to shadow of the collossus take down

[frank crystal]

Wait so is this a race through the city type deal?

[surreal basin]

Ah no! It’s the first round of a tournament

A big battle royale

It’s the qualifying round

[frank crystal]

Ohhhh

Maybe a geomancer fucking up the arena?

[surreal basin]

Oooo mayhaps

[surreal basin]

mmm i shouldn't repeat the perception thing

[carmine egret]

A wizard rapidly constructing wooden architecture, using it as cover and a vantage point

[limber comet]

Fortnite battlepass

[turbid dagger]

Also, I just recently went ahead and bought Dungeondraft to satiate this idea I have
And I am presently working on my First D&D-O-Sphere Dungeon

[surreal basin]

Also I thought you guys would be amused by this

Because this arena is in a magical mega city with a pact prohibiting murder, there’s an anti-death field around the arena: when people die, they still get gorily killed for the crowd, and then the arena automatically teleports their remains to an area below the arena where they get revivified

[frank crystal]

Jesus lol

[surreal basin]

It’s a lawful evil city baby!!!!!

[frank crystal]

Madworld core

Also why are the PCs in the tournament anyway?

Especially since nobody will actually die

[surreal basin]

oh

if they win they get to ask the demigod presiding over the tournament for a favor

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

[surreal basin]

also lots of money

plot wise they're being sent in to ask for the shard of the divine blade Wailing Dark

which can cut anything

[frank crystal]

Oh damn

[surreal basin]

even metaphysical concepts

they want it so that they can, later, save their friend when he uses a corrupting artifact to save the city

so they can seperate his psyche from the entity in the artifact

.... this is a complicated ass home game

Alrighty, I think I’m read to go for this tournament arc

Three days of Cool Fights

[frank crystal]

I should run a tournament arc

At least as a short campaign/one shot

[turbid dagger]

Working on my very first pf2 map 😌

Note this is an outline, no ground textures or props yet
It's eventually gonna be a druidic glade hemmed in by trees

[solar storm]

What’s a compy?

Also that secret path which is hard to find without help

What does it bypass?

Since that’s usually the benefit of a secret path

[surreal basin]

Compy is a tiny dinosaur

[solar storm]

New witch gets so many cool moves wow

[warped orbit]

yeah there's some cool ones

there's another one called like Stitch Familiar or something, that also does a move like that

[solar storm]

Oh huh

https://tenor.com/view/strongbad-virus-computer-virus-found-flagrant-virus-gif-12649623

[turbid dagger]

A: As Emily said, its short for Compsognathus- 'false compy' is a hostile encounter consisting of two Compsognathuses and an Esipil Sakhil that has taken the form of a monstrous compsognathus to enthrall them
B: The secret path lets you bypass the Hot Springs if you get to it from the Mitflit den- the Hot Springs have a Severe encounter in it
Reworking the path to make it easier to access the secret path without necessarily meeting the mitflit might be wise though

[solar storm]

Ah ok, so the idea is that it’s a reward if you find the first secret path and do stuff

I had been imagining that you’d most likely go through the hotsprings to that upper section but that makes more sense

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, if you meet the mitflit and end the encounter peacefully, they'll tell you where to look, lowering the DC

Though I am worried that the players will just find the Mitflit right away, go through False Compy, and go straight to the Bloodbriar without interacting with most of the dungeon

[solar storm]

That’s always a risk with a xandered dungeon

[turbid dagger]

Maybe it'd be better if I took the path out and made the reward for befriending the Mitflit be it telling them about the secret of the Hot Springs encounter
Which is that there's two Pugwampis and another Mitflit, but also a Ball Python hiding in the waters that attacks anything that gets close
Because the idea with the hot springs is that if you avoid getting the Ball Python to enter the fight, its Moderate, but if you trigger it to attack, it becomes Severe
And the Pugwampis are out in the open enjoying the water (on the other side of the springs from the snake) to trick hapless passers by into 'joining them for a friendly bath' and ticking the snake off

The northern and southern routes (the ones next to False Compy and Rodeo Grimples) are intended to allow players to start away from the Ball Python's area of the spring

[solar storm]

Edited this post based on this

https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/50123/roleplaying-games/a-historical-note-on-xandering

Which is really news to me and like a week old

But I felt like it was worth posting

[solar storm]

Hmm, I think from a playtime perspective that might be better

Since there would plausibly be only 1 combat encounter with the top side route

[lost bluff]

Hey random question, are there any existing examples of like Krakens in PF2e? Gonna make my players fight one on a ship and could use a good reference to work off of before I start giving it magical storm powers.

[solar storm]

Like beyond the base stat block?

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, aside from the Bloodbriar final boss
Which is three zombie shamblers and a large version of the Bloodlash Bush from Plaguestone

[solar storm]

Cause they get this base

[surreal basin]

there's the giant octopus, you would probably modify the sea serpent

I've made it into a sky serpent before

which was fun

[lost bluff]

Just the stat block/abilities stuff.

[solar tendon]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=275 ?

[lost bluff]

I'll need to tone that down a bit but good reference point

[clever cobalt]

Persistent Damage Sucks

[surreal basin]

yeeah?

[turbid dagger]

Apologies, I cannot agree
Bleed Bleed Yum Yum 😋

[clever cobalt]

Anyways uh

Will stuff like Magus and Gunslinger be in Player Core 2?

[solar tendon]

nope

aiui the remaster only covers like

'core' books which in terms of player facing means crb and apg?

while the rest of the classes came in themed supplements

[surreal basin]

You can still play them obviously

[solar tendon]

yeah

[surreal basin]

And I’m sure like, magus will get errata

[solar tendon]

that's my understanding of why the classes that appear are there to be more specific

[surreal basin]

And even before then it’s really easy to just…. Follow v similar rules for arcane cascade which is the only that would need changing iirc

[solar tendon]

yeah for errata in general paizo has been like "before we announced this whole deal we told you we were gonna be doing a lot more errata guys"

[frank crystal]

Always a good feeling when you reveal an ability a boss has and your players all react shocked

[warped orbit]

Timber Sentinel continues to induce major amounts of salt to GM 😛

[frank crystal]

[warped orbit]

and now you have to look forward to Berms as well 😛

[frank crystal]

Just seeing that tree is enough to make me wanna focus it down

[frank crystal]

Oh god I know

An effective 30 temp HP combined with two of the best control abilities in the game

[warped orbit]

Imagine if I had Berms this fight, I could have just boxed those two goons into the room

[frank crystal]

Yup

Just Leo by himself

And he would not have lasted nearly as long alone

And he already got bursted down pretty fast

[trail nova]

... Don't you love the phrase "Rogue Talent: Hedgewitch Secret: Magus Arcana: Mageknight Mystic Combat"? Because I've been doing 3pp 1e for too long.

[frank crystal]

Honestly that sounds pretty sick tbh

Sounds like a finishing move for a shonen character

[trail nova]

(This is me using weird stuff to chain across 4 different pools of talents (basically 1e class feats.))

[warped orbit]

lmao

[turbid dagger]

Timber Sentinel do be kind of nuts
Just
Cast A Fucking Spell
No Slots Gaming

[frank crystal]

It’s insane

It alone has reduce made enemies do just, 0 damage in the game im running

[trail nova]

I forgot, could do a Vigilante Talent into the Rogue Talent

[barren cipher]

yeah timber sentinel isn't the absolute be all and end all but it's kinda ridiculous

there are a lot of fights that it can just kinda invalidate

[frank crystal]

Wood kineticist in general has access to so many good control/utility options

[barren cipher]

it's not even the best spell or anything but it's incredibly hard to compete with even a crap spell heightened to 10th and spammable

[turbid dagger]

I love wood kine so much 🥺
'yeah, I can rock a shield in one hand and healers tools in the other while still blasting out bleed in a big ass cone, after the fight I'll feed you apples also'

[frank crystal]

I mean I don’t even think it’s that good as a spell

But as an impulse it’s amazing

[barren cipher]

yeah you'd never like prepare protector tree 10

[frank crystal]

Having no resource cost and auto heightening solves all its problems

[frank crystal]

Fresh produce is such a funny impulse

Just give people bananas to heal them and make them resistance to fucking void damage

[eager mountain]

new adventure

[frank crystal]

Oh neat

Those wood dudes are fucking the fighter up

[solar tendon]

ooh level 5 start

[carmine egret]

ooo!

[clever cobalt]

when doe this come out?

also what's the synposis

[eager mountain]

April

[clever cobalt]

got it

[eager mountain]

Pactbreaker is a wilderness-themed Pathfinder adventure for four 5th-level characters. The adventure begins the Wardens of Wildwood Adventure Path, a three-part monthly campaign in which a group of adventurers navigate a tricky balance between idyllic wilderness, a hungry nation, and primal forces beyond the natural world. This volume also includes a look at the Verduran Forest, an ecology of the sentient treelike arboreals, several new magical items to discover, and new dangerous monsters to test your PCs!```

[clever cobalt]

ah, Aldoran and Taldor in 2e

[frank crystal]

Also turtle people ancestry?

[clever cobalt]

finally

[carmine egret]

could be a beastkin or awakened animal, or some kinda "monster"

[echo briar]

or a very messed up Iruxi

[turbid dagger]

I figure probably awakened animal
If there somehow isn't a turtle person somewhere in the bestiary or something

[solar tendon]

or a fey with turtle appearance

[turbid dagger]

I hope someone takes the offer to play one of the playtest classes when I run my game
Wanna see Exemplar in action

[limber comet]

Druid AP

We ball

Now we need pf2e's equivalent to Skulls and Shackles

[eager mountain]

what does that mean ?

[eager mountain]

let me just say as someone whos playing a playtest exemplar

[surreal basin]

oh it's just amusing

[eager mountain]

my gm wasnt pleased when I pulled out scar of the survivor

[surreal basin]

its a weird flanking triangle guy

[turbid dagger]

1d8 healing every other turn does not seem super obnoxious, especially since it's immanence is more niche than the other body ikons

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[eager mountain]

im level 16

thats 8d8 for free accorrding to them

even though I have to shut down my weapon stuff for it

[turbid dagger]

Still the same general sitch imo
In combat self healing is nice but your not really outdoing a dedicated healer and it won't make you immortal

[solar storm]

It is extremely funny how cute looking Clearwater is

For being actually a horrible person

[eager mountain]

his name is Dewey

Dewey daystar

and hes a real shit

[solar storm]

Right I forgot they weren't named after him

[warped orbit]

8d8 is not a big deal at level 16 tbh

being able to do it every turn for free is nice, but you generally won't use it in combat IMO

[surreal basin]

Alright first session of tournament arc over

My players had a very easy but very fun time with the battle royale

And then Absolutely nuked a squad of Einhijar and a Valkyrie

Hit them with 3 high level fireballs in a row

[solar storm]

I see it in combat a fair amount

Mostly as a nice way to spark transcendence back to the weapon though

[surreal basin]

And now they’re gonna fight a brass bastion, a new construct from Rage of Elements that used to be a golem, but Paizo gave them flat spell damage resistance instead of golden antimagic

Which gives me hope that they’re massive nerfing and clarifying golems by doing that

[warped orbit]

It is decent for that yes

[eager mountain]

I know, but thier whole issue wasthat it costs nothing

that its an action I can repeat

[light gyro]

Hero point more like hero pointless

[eager mountain]

happens sometimes

[frank crystal]

Sometimes that’s just how the dice land

[rustic cape]

My GM rules that if the hero point doesn't improve your result you don't spend it

[solar storm]

I might switch to that

[rustic cape]

Yeah it averts a lot of dissatisfaction I think

[surreal basin]

My group gives out a ton of hero points so we just let you spend another hero point to reroll again, + people can spend them on the rolls of others

We also allow the party collectively to spend 2 hero points to reroll an enemy roll

[barren cipher]

you know what, one of the best parts of shadowrun 2e was team karma pool

[surreal basin]

This is all because my group has

Just dogshit luck

Like 90% of the time

To the point that we’re still regularly out of hero points lol

[turbid dagger]

Our group just has everyone get 3 hero points at start of session lmao

[warped orbit]

in my AV game we currently do 2 points to start, and everyone gains another one after a mid session break

[carmine egret]

That sounds pretty reasonable tbh

[clever cobalt]

So, in my Silly Game (Dual Class Kingmaker(

How does a Fighter/Inventor with Weapon Modifications sound?

[warped orbit]

Pretty good

Fighter goes well with almost any martial really

Extra accuracy and good metastrikes always helps

[barren cipher]

inventor with 18 attack stat and +2 to hit is going to be pretty good

[thorny berry]

Yeah any dual martial combo that doesn't have to spend multiple actions activating their class features is gonna be good

[barren cipher]

you can manage 18 int as well but it's not pretty

[surreal basin]

we have everyone start with one, someone gets one for recap, and about twice everyone gets another

[rotund geode]

I was doing a funny house rule where I add 10 if you spend a hero point to make them the Big Roll Zone

Not sure where I got the idea to do that

[turbid dagger]

What's a good stat block for an enemy Swashbuckler
Or a more general 'duelist' type

[true delta]

I have finally run my second-ever session of Pathfinder 2e. :D
The Begnner's Box. It was great fun.

[barren cipher]

'a level X pc swashbuckler' works ok

i would just get numbers for appropriate level and then tack on whatever swash abilities you like

[frank crystal]

Have they said if Minotaurs and Centuars will be large in the book they’re coming out in?

[worthy stump]

They’ve said they can be either large or medium, depending on heritage

[turbid dagger]

Ponytaur 😌
Very much jazzed for Large base ancestries

[barren cipher]

let's see how they balance it

[turbid dagger]

I'll be very sad if they pull some mount stuff and say that 10 foot Reach has no effect on Large ancestries or something
But still, just Being Big is good enough for me even if it comes with some drawbacks

[echo briar]

Instead of making large ancestries larger, they just errata all current ancestries smaller.

so medium becomes the old small, small the old tiny, and tiny now has a reach of -5 feet

[barren cipher]

there's no way you can just roll a centaur, pick up a halberd and control 36 squares

[rustic cape]

TIL that the Escape action has the Attack tag

[barren cipher]

oh yeah.

getting grappled can be a real bad time

[rustic cape]

It also means grapple is really useful for tanks

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=156 And also this is a thing

[turbid dagger]

If you have a reaction strike
Which is a level 6 thing for most martials
So I honestly would not consider that the end of the world

[barren cipher]

they considered it the end of the world for mounted characters

i played a fair bit of mounted paladin with tanking intent and the amount of control it gives you is considerable

it's not just reactive strike etc. it's also just the plain reach

try getting enlarged on a martial sometime, it's horrifying

[turbid dagger]

They've said before that the howl of the wild ancestries are gonna be 'pushing the bounds of what they thought was acceptable' wrt to ancestries
Which I interpreted as 'we've looked back at some of the things we thought were crazy and were cautious about before, and are giving them another shake with these dudes'
So who knows?

[thorny berry]

doesn't seem impossible

they've eased up a bit on what they're willing to do with ancestry unarmed attacks

see kashrishi vs like

everything except gnoll

[turbid dagger]

That reminds me
I kind of want to write up a homebrew ancestry with all my favorite types of ancestry feats in it
Like uhhhh
Conrasu/Azarketi's 'hand free parry'
Conrasu/Nagaji/Kashrishi 'comfy breastplate natural armor'
Etc

I realize that sounds like 'so just conrasu' on the face of it but I promise the ETC includes things they don't have

[turbid dagger]

Since standard boosts are a thing now I'm thinking Str+ Cha+ Dex-
So you can opt into the AC Weirdness or go human spread

[echo briar]

Do orc still have the pointless +str +free?

[worthy stump]

nope, they're two free boosts now

[turbid dagger]

I've got a funny idea for an ancestry feat/heritage
The race has long, very hard claws, so I'm thinking an unarmed attack with the Parry trait, and if both hands are free you gain +2 circ instead of one

[eager mountain]

More on the info on the turtle

[frank crystal]

Oh

Big ass turtle

[carmine egret]

oh hella

[turbid dagger]

Does this seem too strong
I'm using Frilled Lizardfolk as a comparison point

[warped orbit]

Hmm, it is a pretty scary AC swing

But you also need to be good at two different skills

And already adjacent to the target to actually capitalise yourself

[turbid dagger]

This ancestry is a Str/Cha/Dex- one, for reference

[warped orbit]

So I think it's okay

[turbid dagger]

The whole 'you need to already be adjacent to use it yourself' balances it a lot I think, yeah

[frank crystal]

So how is going druid dedication for the heat/cold psychics to get access to some primal spells for the fire and cold damage?

[turbid dagger]

These guys are the Laarken, a race from an old setting of mine
Half mountain lion, half owl, half man
They live on mountaintops all across the world with no evidence of the diaspora needed to actually get to them
They claim to have once lived in the sky, and worship it as a deity

[turbid dagger]

Post remaster its prob gonna be pretty cool, since spells will just be spells with no differing tradition prof
(iirc)

[thorny berry]

about what I was going to say, yeah

they're not at-level slots so usefulness scales with how much per day attrition you face I suppose

[solar storm]

There might be some good ones but you get a pretty good menu from the expanded spells

[turbid dagger]

Here's the other two I've got right now

[frank crystal]

Yah that’s kinda why I was thinking it

[frank crystal]

Expanded spells from psychic?

[solar storm]

these

Granted spells is more accurate I think

[frank crystal]

Ah

Yah I got confused due to the name difference

And yah I like the list, I just wish there were more cold spells

There plenty of fire but not enough cold spells for the mechanics of the subclass to really shine

[solar storm]

From a certain perspective all of those spells are cold spells

It's also worth mentioning that Conservation of Energy wouldn't apply to spells you got from a Druid

[frank crystal]

Oh it won’t?

That’s a bit annoying

[solar storm]

Yeah its only granted spells from your conscious mind and psi cantrips

[frank crystal]

True, what are cold spells if not fire spells with a lack of energy?

[turbid dagger]

Alright, here are the last three

(They have low light base so Darkvision is a one step upgrade, not a 2 step)

[limber comet]

Jesus Christ lmao

[solar storm]

Quickly marking off all the deities who don't have skulls from the "might die" list just in case

[surreal basin]

Lmao

Oh my god so I know this is probably a joke but (bloodlords spoilers) ||with Geb out and about….||

[limber comet]

This has a non-zero chance of happening

And that's scary

Though it would disprove my theory that Aroden didn't die, just fucked off

[true delta]

Can you stride thrice?

[solar storm]

yes

[true delta]

Thanks

[paper juniper]

chat have you ever found the path in any of your campaigns?

its been so hard and no one in my playgroup has ever succeeded
starting to think the game may be badly designed

[barren cipher]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=721

monk 7 also

[solar storm]

over a done classes
only one can find paths
This game SUCKS

[stuck bane]

My players find secret paths all the time

[turbid dagger]

I've found at least one path (hidden door)

[rustic cape]

I found a few before my Abomination Vaults game fell apart ;_;

[stuck bane]

Oh yeah. One of my players just kinda ghosted, which was upsetting for a lot of out of game reasons but we were also at level 11 and the final map of the abomination vaults

So they’re down to three players but it’s also kinda weird to just add a new person in

They were the heavy hitter, so the one session we played without them, the difference was felt a bit hard and I had to bring in ||Quara|| to help them

||there’s a lot of single foe encounters down here so it’s been hard to tweak the encounters down||

[rustic cape]

I enjoyed what I played of AV quite a bit

We got to level 3

[solar storm]

My AV players are so bad at finding paths augh

the dice hate them

[stuck bane]

Dice hate mine too but somehow the paths keep turning up

(Also if anyone has advice to offer about the above situation, I’d appreciate it. I definitely want to finish out the campaign)

[rustic cape]

I'm especially sad because my GM for that game ruled that I could do Unarmed Thief and now that's officially supported and aaaaaaaaaah

Speaking of which, it seems kinda like not allowing Unarmed Ruffian is an particularly weird oversight

Ruffian in general feels a bit anemic still

[unborn rain]

You might just have to DM PC

[frank crystal]

Oh do unarmed attacks work for sneak attack now?

[clever cobalt]

They benefit from Thief's dex damage stuff

[frank crystal]

Hell yah

[rustic cape]

They always did but they specifically did not work for Thief's dex-to-damage until the remaster

[frank crystal]

I never did notice it specified weapon

[turbid dagger]

Yeah stumbling stance thief is gonna be a terror I bet

Any monk stance really but that one's got the Synergy

[rustic cape]

Wolf Stance is gonna be real good too

Stumbling Stance will be tricky because its advanced feat relies on having flurry

And getting flurry as a rogue requires you either be a human half-elf or having Strength 14

But Wolf Stance's upgrade feat just lets you prone people, iirc

[unborn rain]

it requires minimum level 12 too

[rustic cape]

Not if you get to it with Martial Artist

Then it's only level 8

But yeah Stumbling Feint, while seeming phenomenal on Rogue, is still kind of a pain to get and can be used at level 10 at the earliest if you're a human half-elf who goes Martial Artist and grabs monk with Multitalented at level 9

[unborn rain]

interesting build for like Ruby Phoenix

[trail nova]

https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Find the Path

[unborn rain]

feel like it sort of trivalises the game if it'sn just about getting one spell

[trail nova]

Yeah, but magic trivializing large parts of the game is a known issue with systems Pathfinder is based off of. This is particularly bad, but it can still be handled with a good social contract at the table.

[turbid dagger]

You need Flurry to to do Stumbling Feint though, the feat doesn't give it to you, just lets you use it if you have it

[rustic cape]

Hence why I said it's usable at 10 at the earliest

And why Wolf Stance is probably more convenient for most characters, tbh

[turbid dagger]

Oh I see
Yeah when I try and do Stumbling multiclass I usually just do Monk and bite the bullet for level 12 stumbling feint
And relegate the build to 11-20 APs

Indeed, for a 1-11 or 1-20 Wolf is probably a better fit, if you don't want to retrain later anyway

[rustic cape]

Wolf Drag + Head Stomp seems like a pretty solid combo

[turbid dagger]

Oh, that does seem fun
Wolf Drag doesn't count as multiple attacks for MAP, I never realized that, neat
Most metastrikes that combine strikes and maneuver effects do

[solar tendon]

it's like combat grab

[rustic cape]

4. Arueshalae

[turbid dagger]

Combat Grab is Press so its got the same sort of vibes but I feel you

My reference point was like uhhh
Knockdown

[upbeat ridge]

So I just found out about sacred geometry in 1e

What the fuck paizo

[warped orbit]

Sacred Geometry sure is a thing that exists

[frozen hatch]

I have only one friend who understands it and is therefore the only one I haven't banned it for.

[unborn rain]

Live by the math game die by the math game

[warped orbit]

Understand how it works seems like it should make it more likely to get banned 😛

[unborn rain]

After reading the feat properly I think it's really cool actually

[warped orbit]

It's a neat idea

[unborn rain]

It's dumb but also it speaks to me on a spiritual level as it adds Cool Math Games into the game

[warped orbit]

It's just also incredibly complicated and also busted when you actually understand it

[unborn rain]

Balance wise it's insane

Pathfinder 1st edition is some of the most wacky game design choices, I very much enjoy it from a "Make interesting builds" perspective

Like it's a pretty easy game to brake but those brakes are interesting and often funny

[frozen hatch]

The customization and options available in pathfinder (1e and 2e) are why I greatly prefer them over 5e.

[surreal basin]

If sacred geometry doesn’t have a time limit it’s both very time consuming and essentially a free metamagic to every spell once you’re 8th level

[unborn rain]

Pathfinder 1e does lots of interesting stuff mechanically in its years of content

I've been looking at various monk subclasses and it's just very interesting. Like the Sensei class, which loses some monk features to get Bard stuff. Which is just very cool

[surreal basin]

Just so you’re aware

[frozen hatch]

Oh I am aware of that as I know what it does and is another reason I banned it on top of how time consuming it is to use.

[turbid dagger]

If I gave an ancestry unarmed attack Rend as a level 17 ancestry feat would that be too juicy for an ancestry thing

[barren cipher]

i think it somewhat depends on how good the strikes are

but you can get like permaflight and such at 17

[turbid dagger]

I'm thinking right now its a vaguely razorclaws-y shortsword equivalent
1d6 agile finesse
I'm thinking about the upgrade feat letting you choose between 1d6 agile finesse or 1d8 backswing

And also possibly letting the Rend proc off unarmed strikes other than the claws themselves
So a monk can do a Tiger Stance FoB or whatever then follow it up with a claw rend
But who knows

[surreal basin]

I think that’s fine

[turbid dagger]

Working on Ancestry feats properly now, this is a level 1 one I'm thinking of right now
Ironquill is one of those Heritages that gives you permanent comfortable Medium Armor, and since the two 'intended' routes for this ancestry to be built into is 'str martial' and 'cha caster' I thought a feat to give casters prof in their own skin might be nice and open up some unconventional builds
The way the scaling prof is worded is the exact same as Sentinel Dedication, save specifying medium armor specifically and not 'whatever armor this feat gives you prof in'

[frank crystal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNgxyL5zEAk

This is just It Was Me All Along!

[rustic cape]

Reposting in tabletop for someone XD

[eager mountain]

YE

[rustic cape]

@teal bobcat Most GMs ime will allow it no problem tho

[teal bobcat]

it's a big scimitar and my guy is distinctly pirate-y

[rustic cape]

Rogues can also do the tumbling about to pull off their big hits thing if they take the Tumble Behind feat

[unborn rain]

Rogue plus Swashbuckler Dedication is a pretty good build

Sneak attack Finishers are scary

[paper inlet]

I am thinking about what to smack on top of my champion

Human/Tiefling Desecrator with a greatsword
I picked up Mauler Dedication at lvl2

[rustic cape]

Free Archetype?

[paper inlet]

Ye

[rustic cape]

Mauler seems legit

[paper inlet]

Seemed natural

Thinking about a barb dedication later on, she's lv2 right now, but that would fit the character, somewhat...I think.

[frank crystal]

So I’m not gonna lie, how is power attack better then just using those two actions to strike two times?

Especially since you get to do stuff like add your strength or any damage bonuses from stuff like barbarian 2 times as well

[solar tendon]

overall it isn't

but the idea is if you get one hit and then one miss because of map, you were better off power attacking

[carmine egret]

Resistance and Vulnerability is often the deciding factor with this sort of thing

[solar tendon]

the bonus power attack gives can also be multiplied by a crit

is also partially the dream scenario

[frank crystal]

Oh true

[carmine egret]

If your attacks do a certain type of damage and your target removes X amount of that type from attacks, it's better to do one big attack and only have X removed instead of Xx2.

But if it takes Y more damage from attacks, you really want to be hitting multiple times.

[solar tendon]

but statistically its kinda a fallacy cause you'd usually have better expected damage from making two attacks

[solar tendon]

this is true but requires like if D is your attacks damage then D-X needs to be smaller than what power attack gives you

stuff like hunter's aim which gives an attack bonus instead usually scales better. a 2 is abt a +20% in expected damage

[frank crystal]

Yah power attack has always seemed like, the worst of the level 1 weapon dependent fighter feats, nice to know it at least has some niches though

[solar tendon]

It could also have a niche in characters that are off-attackers like alchemist or warpriest but then you run into the issue of the two action cost eating into doing what you're better at

[frank crystal]

Yah

[clever cobalt]

I use Power Attack cause it's better MAP and I also like when I roll a lot of dice

[paper inlet]

Second attack is a -5 tho

So yk

Usually it is better damage to attack twice

But it's more consistent to power attack

[warped orbit]

Without extenuating circumstances, it's always better to just Strike twice IIRC

[frank crystal]

Hmm, other then power attack, any other good level 1 feats for a two handed fighter?

[warped orbit]

Sudden Charge

Exacting Strike

Sudden Charge especially I heavily recommend

[frank crystal]

Yah sudden charge is always super nice

It’s like my go to default feat for level 1 barbarian

[paper inlet]

Hmm

Well, too late to change archetypes

[clever cobalt]

Keep in mind a lot of "is this Feat good" stuff happens in vacuums

The situation and context almost always has some "bias" for what works best

[paper inlet]

At worst I don't get the increased effectiveness I get from free archetype

But I don't think anyone in the party is like

Minmaxing super hard

[warped orbit]

Mauler is a good archetype

[paper inlet]

I never read through the draconic ancestries, but I trust my GM they are not super broken

[warped orbit]

The Battlezoo one?

It's fine from what I heard so far

[paper inlet]

Yeah

Honestly, I don't even know what kind of dragon witch from my party is-

[barren cipher]

i think this is a bit too strong, given that everyone else just gets the armour and nothing else for their level 1 ancestry feat

while it does solve a lot of problems for a lot of people, i don't think all problems are meant to be solved, there shouldn't be an ancestry that is clearly the best for e.g. monk based on a level 1 ancestry feat

[turbid dagger]

Monk wouldn't get the scaling because it only has unarmored defense but I feel you
My thought as I was going to bed was maybe the feat should just make them Trained, and there are future feats that give expert
As human casters can get Armor Prof level 1 for that basic effect (then Sentinel later or something)

I do think there is a place for an armored caster, since Human can get a pretty good setup for it by level 2
But maybe make it a bit less one and done

[warped orbit]

making a followup feat at 13 for the Expert could be it

[turbid dagger]

Seems wise, yeah

[barren cipher]

it’s still a level 1 ancestry feat + a level 1 general feat, if the chassis is a bit crap like halfling then you can budget a bit more i guess

[turbid dagger]

Its a 10 hp, 20 speed, Str+/Cha+/Free+/Dex- race
So big HP but dwarf speed and some awkwardness with AC if you run the standard boosts
I think 'armor prof as a ancestry feat for a specific heritage' is probably gonna be fine, considering armor Prof is not considered all that potent usually
And, folks could take sentinel at level 2

[rustic cape]

How does it interact with Sentinel, actually?

Like can you bootstrap yourself up to Heavy by taking both?

If not you're gonna have to be very specific with the rules text

[turbid dagger]

In theory, yes
But ironquill is like kashrishi Tough Skin where it gives you 'natural' armor you can never take off or wear other armor with

[rustic cape]

Ah, okay

Problem averted, then

[barren cipher]

if you don’t have any special features other than that i think you’re probably fine

[turbid dagger]

Other than what I listed they have low light vision (which I am debating cutting, likely will) and a talon unarmed attack that does fist damage and traits but piercing (so worse than base fists, but several of the ancestry feats and a heritage focus on upgrading them)

[barren cipher]

if you drop vision improvements and speed you have a lot of space to work with

[turbid dagger]

Mhm, it's an interesting space
Dwarves have a kind of 'speed fix' with unburdened iron and I'm thinking about ones for these guys
Right now my plan is a feat that lets them leap and high/long jump as if their speed was 30
So they're slow but their Leap distance is only 5 feet slower than their ground speed

[frank crystal]

I feel like the resilient sphere has gotta be useful for summoner

Just hide behind your magic shield as your eidolon actually does the fighting

Assuming you’re in a situation where your summoner is very vulnerable

[turbid dagger]

Depends on if you can cast spells through the bubble, I suspect the answer is no
Because if you can't you'd be better off just uhhhhh
Using Meld With Eidolon

[frank crystal]

I mean yah but like

That requires I use a feat to get meld with eidolon

And like, that just feels like a waste of a feat

Even if the other level 1 and 2 summoner feats aren’t super good either

[turbid dagger]

Funny level 5 feat
Got a pretty good roster of feats now, finished with level 1 and working on 5/9

[trail nova]

... I'm about to make a very funny 1e Dagger build. Just need to figure out how to be great at trip, steal, feint, and dirty trick at the same time. Also poison.

(Build trips people, draws a hidden dagger as a free action and makes an attack of opportunity - that draw lets them feint and poison the dagger, and the attack of opportunity has a free dirty trick which lets me also make a steal manuever... all as a move action.

[solar tendon]

ooooh

[trail nova]

Cloak and Dagger Style along with some fun spheres of might talents.

(I really want to make Scoundrel's hidden weapon stuff good.)

[trail nova]

That or I try and make Performance Combat work.

[turbid dagger]

Oh, here's the 'speed fix' feat I mentioned earlier, to give Laarken a movement gimmick like Dwarf's Unburdened Iron

[barren cipher]

you should also adjust for speed penalties

[turbid dagger]

True, thanks for the catch!

[trail nova]

The performance combat feats are niche as fuck, but really strong effects. (Swift or Free action Dazzling Display in particular is uhhhh... notable.) Performing Combatant (aka. "feat tax") makes them work in any fight.

[echo briar]

Behold, my ultimate creation

[frank crystal]

I forget, from what we’ve seen of soldier, will their weapons go off of strength, dex or con?

Or more accurately their big ass 2 action guns

[warped orbit]

they use Con for their attacks IIRC

[frank crystal]

Ah sick

[warped orbit]

or at least Con is their KAS

[frank crystal]

Yah I assume they’d still do stuff like add strength to damage for melee attacks

[turbid dagger]

I'm fairly certain they do attacks normally
Con is their key stat but its so they're mad beefy
Might not matter as much with AOE weapons being save based though

[frank crystal]

Oh yah we don’t actually know if AOE weapons even make attack rolls yet huh?

I feel like they gotta

Or at least add prof to the save somehow

Because otherwise, anyone can pick them up regardless of proficiency and use it just fine

[warped orbit]

oh right that was it
using the area stuff is save based, so it does go off Con since that's their KAS

[frank crystal]

Wait does a class’s KAS determine their class DC?

[warped orbit]

yes

usually at least

[frank crystal]

Ah

I never realized tbh

I always just pumped up my KAS just because it’s normally optimal for a class anyway

[turbid dagger]

The starfinder playtest confirmed they do saves

IIRC Soldier gets a feat that lets them do an attack on a single target in the AOE to apply the effect again? Focus Fire or something
That I'm not sure on though

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

[frank crystal]

Also that would make sense

[warped orbit]

IIRC it was like, you can make an attack against the primary target that also inflicts Suppression on hit

[frank crystal]

Do we know if suppression is applied on a successful save as well as an unsuccessful one?

[warped orbit]

let me check the playtest real quick

normally its not, but one of the Soldier "subclasses" makes it apply on a successful save too

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

Admittedly I do kinda, hope they change that

Just because if suppression is the main mechanic of the class

Then making it so you only get it if enemies fail their saves kinda sucks

And especially hurts the class for fighting anything stronger then it

[surreal basin]

Yeah that’s rough

I guess it’s kinda the same as swashbuckler tho

[turbid dagger]

Its remedied slightly by the fact that Soldier seems tuned around controlling loads of little shits over boss slaying, but yeah

[surreal basin]

That’s fair but I don’t know if that’s good design to center an entire class around

Personally

[turbid dagger]

Well, that subclass which suppresses even on a passed save will probably help if your worried about not being as useful against bosses

[turbid dagger]

Nearly finished with my oneshot planning but tied up with one thing:
There's an encounter I'm attached too, where there'll be two Grimples, each riding a Thylacine, that ambush the players as they're going down a fairly innocuous hallway
But 2 grimples and 2 thylacines are most of the way to a severe encounter and I kind of want to make it more Moderate-Low, because there's a lot of Moderate-Severe fights so far
So what sounds like a better plan to adjust the encounter:
Make each Thylacine Weak
Or make the Thylacines run when their rider is killed

[barren cipher]

if you take away some action economy for riding that might smooth things out a bit

[turbid dagger]

What if each thylacine spends an action bucking to try and get the grimples off, and the grimples each spend an action holding on
I kind of want to keep them each having their own turn instead of the usual command an animal to give em two actions
As that's potentially more DPR (or DPT, I guess)