Pathfinder

[frank crystal]

Man, I wish ignite the run wasn’t incapacitation

[solar storm]

It feels weird that the remaster rules are barely changing my current campaign

[frank crystal]

Why?

[solar storm]

The only person playing a class which is changed is playing a Ranger and that's barely touched haha

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

[solar storm]

So its just terminology changes really

[frank crystal]

Also I need to know

Did they make advanced weapons easier to get?

[solar storm]

I haven't looked

[frank crystal]

I haven’t looked at anything like general feats yet

[frank crystal]

Fair

[echo briar]

kinda

the weapon proficency general feat gives you expert at lvl 13.

So casters can get it on par, martials can get it on par for 2 more levels I guess

[frank crystal]

[solar storm]

Yeah its just marginally easier I think

[sinful gyro]

The vast majority of it is OGL stuff yeah

It's like, hey at the same time we might as well tweak some things

[echo briar]

I know there are some new class feats, are there any new ancestry feats not from the new versatile heritages?

[solar storm]

I don't think so

I haven't looked super closely but I just saw some renames

Like Vengeful Hatred becoming Mountain Strategy

[clever cobalt]

How come Edgewatch has an ||Oceans 11 style Heist|| and Alkenstar doesn't

Alkenstar is perfect for thst setup

[echo briar]

Because cops are the real criminals

[clever cobalt]

I mean fair but don't tell me planning and executing a heist isn't cool as hell

Especially if it's against a bastard and/or it's a Robin Hood style theft

[worthy stump]

heisting is cool

[unborn rain]

I've never done a heist, I don't think even when I played some BitD

Massive hole in my Ttrpg player CV

[silver geyser]

Heists are great

[solar storm]

What? How?

[clever cobalt]

Yeah aren't Heists like the core idea of BitD

[solar tendon]

they were assassins

they did assassinations haha

actually you definitely did do a heist, you wanted to figure out who the politician backing the red sashes was

(so you could assassinate her)

[unborn rain]

I don't remember most things

[solar storm]

Oh, assassinations are just heists but you take a life not property :p

[unborn rain]

No you're thinking of GHOST kindappings

[ionic pier]

I have access to the Remaster PDFs 👀

Time to read

[ionic pier]

Loving the witch changes

[solar storm]

Any standouts?

I really like the new witch but honestly I never looked that closely at the old one

[ionic pier]

The familiars all having special effects based on your patron of choice when you sustain hexes

is one

Fate allows you to increase AC or lower it by 1 to any target withing 15ft of your familiar

whenever you sustain a hex

For example

[solar storm]

Oh yeah that one rules

[barren cipher]

old witch is very much mediocre wizard with a sometimes decent 1-action cantrip and a better but still kinda useless familiar

[ionic pier]

^

New witch seems thematic and fun

Still reading tho

[rustic cape]

I might be playing a Witch soon so I’m pretty excited

[barren cipher]

the calculation was 'do i want this not really that good stuff, or do i want an extra spell slot at every level'

[ionic pier]

Yeah I wanna play a Witch but I'm in so many games already

[barren cipher]

not a tough decision for a lot of people

[frank crystal]

Oh new skill action

[surreal basin]

Witch did have the choosable spell list going for them

[frank crystal]

You can move people around while they’re within your reach

Using athletics

[rustic cape]

Oh, nice

[frank crystal]

Normal success is 5 feet

Critical success is 10 feet

But the creature must always stay within your reach

[rustic cape]

Slick

[trail nova]

Oh, reposition.

[unborn rain]

Real useful if you've got reach

[ionic pier]

The Lv 12 Witch Feat "Coven Spell" reaction seems

really interesting

[carmine egret]

Oh?

[frank crystal]

What does it do?

[solar storm]

Lets you amp or spellshape an ally's spell within 30 feet as a reaction

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

[surreal basin]

Me when I quicken my Allie’s spell

[ionic pier]

Spellcaster reactions good

[surreal basin]

*allies

[turbid dagger]

Oh thats very nice yeah
Witch ain't doing shit with its reaction so

[solar tendon]

that's cool

[solar storm]

Who is Allie and why does spellcheck like her so much???

[surreal basin]

Lmaoooo

[ionic pier]

Ceremonial Dagger also seems neat, but it does share a level with greater lesson

so idk

[clever cobalt]

Any lore changes in the GM's guide?

[frank crystal]

What’s greater lesson?

[ionic pier]

Allows you a lv 3 Hex Spell

basically

[warped orbit]

it is a free low level wand

which is pretty great

[ionic pier]

Yeah, vs a free lv 5 focus spell

[warped orbit]

and you can overcharge it fairly safely for little cost

[ionic pier]

I guess I'd have to read all the focus spells to make a decision on that

hmmm yeah the greater lessons are still a bit underwhelming except the shadows one

[rustic cape]

Does Golarion have an ersatz-Slavic society?

I know Baba Yaga is hanging around but she’s a dimensional traveler, right?

[light gyro]

i don't know about ersatz-slavic but they do have at least a couple of slavic people https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Anastasia_Nikolaevna

[turbid dagger]

Irrisen was founded by Baba Yaga iirc and yes, its current ruler is an Actual Earth Russian

I believe Ustalav is also supposed to be that?
When its not 'ahhhhh I'm being eaten by a vampire'

[unborn rain]

Ustalav is eastern Europe entirely within the context of Vampire fiction I'm pretty sure

[rustic cape]

reads about Irrisen

Oh shit Baba Yaga owns a country

Did not realize that

[warped orbit]

There are also other straight up Russians in Irrisen, after the events of Reign of Winter

But yeah generally Irrisen and Ustalav are very slavic in influence

[sinful gyro]

Lemme grab the map

[rustic cape]

Russian Narnia I see

[heavy fulcrum]

thats irrisen, yeah

[rustic cape]

So a real-Earth Russian girl who got kidnapped and forced into a terrifying “apprenticeship” with baba Yaga would actually work within the lore?

[sinful gyro]

That is possible

real-earth would be in our past but yeah

[silver geyser]

I think at this point Earth is in the 1930s?

[sinful gyro]

Something like that

[silver geyser]

Yeah, it's that.

[rustic cape]

I am envisioning just the most miserable, soggiest witch.

[silver geyser]

And Earth has weirdass Mythos shit going on too.

[heavy fulcrum]

its "currently" 1928 on Earth

(Reign of Winter was 4713 AR and 1918 AD, and its now 4723 AR)

[silver geyser]

Oh, it's not a good time on Earth right now.

[heavy fulcrum]

(and its 4723 AR because all dates are "date book was published + 2700" unless otherwise specified)

[solar tendon]

oh anyone who has remaster is hunter's luck a warden initiate spell now? or how does that work

[rustic cape]

No actual Baba Yaga patron in remaster Witch though, right?

[heavy fulcrum]

despite everything, Baba Yaga actually largely dislikes "followers"

get your own power kiddo

[silver geyser]

You could probably use any patron for Baba Yaga, but good luck getting her to give out power.

[solar storm]

Not explicitly but there’s probably several which could make sense in general

[trail nova]

Reign of Winter spoilers ||IIRC, This is basically what happened to Anastasia Romanov||

[rustic cape]

Hm

[undone phoenix]

I would personally like for this to be pinned

[undone phoenix]

Yay!

[sinful gyro]

Might as well

Not like we have pins here to keep organised

[carmine egret]

I keep seeing melee stuff for Witch, is it easy to make an especially fighty build?

[undone phoenix]

Unarmored defense proficiency and 6 hp per level makes it challenging to say the least

I feel like the best use might be to deter enemies from ending their turn adjacent to you

[turbid dagger]

I have not seen the remaster but the witch claws were an infamous meme in the before remaster days
Right up there with Tandem Strike and that one wizard subclass that trains you in polearms as trap '''''gish''''' options

[carmine egret]

gotcha

[worthy stump]

i remember hearing that the Witch hair-attack stuff got buffed, but i have no idea if it was enough to make it viable

maybe if you pick it up from the multiclass arch

[warped orbit]

not really

the feats are a bit better now, but it's still pretty rough to make work

[eager mountain]

Someone pointed out that now if one person has a weapon something is weak too, you can just toss it between allies

Weapon juggling

[echo briar]

So seems like talismans were slightly nerfed

as their effects are mostly the same, but using them is now a set action instead of a free action when you do a thing

[solar tendon]

that was the thing I liked about talismans

like

they fixed the combat consumable problem

[echo briar]

So you can't use a mesmerizing opal when groveling

[worthy stump]

huh, had they not said something about buffing talismans in the remaster? or am i misremembering?

[warped orbit]

they said they wanted to buff the effects

but if they take an action now that is a pretty hefty nerf for most of them

[solar tendon]

is it like

[warped orbit]

since a lot of talismans were a free action when you do a thing previously

[solar tendon]

an action that includes the thing they would trigger off of

[warped orbit]

unless the activation includes doing the action

[solar tendon]

wait I think they talked about this in the first remaster stream

[solar storm]

Are talismans in GM core?

[echo briar]

yea, but it means it can't trigger off subordinate actions. So you can't use the Bronze Bull to modify a shove from brutish shove or any other activity that includes a shove

A talisman triggered when you used a strike? now you can't use it with Flurry of blows, or double strike, or reactive strike. just the action the talisman gives you

I'm not saying its huge, but it is a nerf

[silver geyser]

Booo

I hate this as someone who hands out free talismans

[trail nova]

I think it's a pretty huge nerf actually.

Moving something from a non-action to an action is a massive, massive shift.

[silver geyser]

I hope the medicine crit fail negator is still a free action

[barren cipher]

apparently it is not

it also no longer negates critical failures, it just improves the results of an administer first aid success

[silver geyser]

aaaaa

[barren cipher]

you stop bleeding without a flat check (pretty good i guess) or you heal the person you're stabilising to 1hp (uh...)

[clever cobalt]

eh the latter is decent

[surreal basin]

Iirc they also removed most talisman requirements

[worthy stump]

that's good at least. the skill requirements were pretty annoying

[echo briar]

With the dying rules, it actual might be worse than not using it.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah getting someone up at 1 is mostly a way to kill them faster unless you immediately follow up with a bigger heal
And at that point why use it

[trail nova]

Currently remembering why starship combat is one of the Starfinder things I’d love to overhaul.

It’s like… somehow the worst blend of trying to abstract some stuff while very aggressively not abstracting others.

[echo briar]

I think starship combat should be its own game TBH.

one that can be mixed with starfinder, or done on its own

[trail nova]

Yeah…

It basically already is, besides the skill checks

[sinful gyro]

Yeah I've had this debate before and like, it's such a big thing it sorta has to be it's own game to work well

[trail nova]

I think SF manages better than some other stuff, like refusing to give cash values. Still... I think it's got a lot of pain points, and suffers in places from Pazio's love of level scaling crashing up against a distinct lack of that elsewhere (HP level scales, damage... doesn't directely)

[worthy stump]

i liked it when i got to play it, but to be fair, that didn't end up happening much in the campaigns i played, haha

hopefully SF2e will give 'em a good overhaul

[trail nova]

I think they work alright at lower levels, and start to fall apart at higher levels.

[worthy stump]

that makes sense, yeah. kind of a legacy of PF1e/SF1e systems, really... 😔

[trail nova]

It's genuinely difficult to max out the budget on a high level smaller ship, like high level parties will likely have.

[worthy stump]

and the highest level i played at was... 6 i think

[trail nova]

Since most of the build point sinks also cost PCU, which maxxes out at pretty low levels.

... I don't think you can build a tier 20 tiny ship that uses all the BP. Like, I think you run out of PCU first.

[eager mountain]

https://vxtwitter.com/NSeanchai/status/1720176923895087255

[trail nova]

Still doesn't let you move through a closed door with less than a turn's worth of actions.

[eager mountain]

lol

[eager mountain]

doors op my friend

[trail nova]

(TBF, it's not like 1e or any other action economy focused RPG I'm aware of really handles them better.)

But I do sometimes feel like PF2e has an obsession with the little book-keeping actions, and making them an actually important consideration, instead of an annoyance you can get rid of.

[trail nova]

Maybe 5e for not making actions interupting movement end it.

[trail nova]

Secret strength of freehand and unarmed builds.

[frank crystal]

I’d agree but I actually think it should require even more actions

5 turns minimum to walk through a closed door

7 if you want to be polite and close it on your way out

[trail nova]

True. I timed myself trying to get through a door with my hands full, and it never took less than 30 seconds. Obviously just 3 actions is too generous. /S (I'm trying to reference 1e weapon cords.)

[frank crystal]

But also what are you working with to open a door requiring 3 actions? I’m thinking it only requires 2

One free action to switch to one hand for your weapon

1 interact action to open then 1 to move

[trail nova]

1 more to switch back to ready with the weapon, I think.

(Which isn't strictly needed, but...)

[frank crystal]

Ahh yah

That’s another interact action

[trail nova]

(Or if you have 2 one-handed things, pick it back up.)

[frank crystal]

I mean you can swap to one hand for a two handed weapon

It doesn’t really change much

You still need an action to swap back to 2 hands

But you don’t have to drop your weapon at least

Which does feel better

[trail nova]

Yeah. Still... it's a lot of bookkeeping.

[surreal basin]

I mean in fairness you absolutely can ignore it

If it desperately annoys you and you want kicking open a door to be a free action it won’t really break anything

It’s just the consequence of of having a system with no inherent movement I think

Like even in 5e it takes a while turn

Unless you give an “open doors” clause I think in most systems it will except this with AP

ALSO, to be even more of a contrarian, I think starfinder spaceship combat is good as long as every party member is on the same ship

[eager mountain]

wait should I just not be letting people with 2 handed weapons not open doors ?

becuase i do

IMO its not really that much of a leap to think someone can just take thier hand off thier weapon for a second to open a door

[unborn rain]

make them do a atheletics chekc every time they hold their two handed weapon in one hand /j

[solar storm]

Strictly speaking it costs an action to re-grip a 2h weapon after taking one off to do a thing

[unborn rain]

I've never come across this issue because I've never had door opening happen in combat

[eager mountain]

unfortunately my home group, one player is REALLY into star wars , and wants to ignore group activities and go fight on another ship ...

or throw themselves at another ship

[eager mountain]

ive had it a few times lol

its never been an issue

In pathfinder 1e a door fucked me over tho

becuase I didnt have the actions to open it in a room full of bad guys alone

[unborn rain]

now that I think about all of my players when i was running pathfinder also had free hands so it wouldnt be an issue

[eager mountain]

if I had been in pathfinder 2e I could have scaped

[unborn rain]

in pf1e isnt open door just a item interact type action? So you can use either an action or movement for it?

[eager mountain]

yes but you literally only have 2 actions

I had to jump down from the raftors ( im a rogue ) , grab the door and open it ..... and there im done

im just standing in the door

waiting for 7 guys to kill me

which they basically did

[rustic cape]

Nuwitch is cool

[unborn rain]

Read that as "nutwitch" and thought there was some sort of weird new Nut based Witch build

[frozen hatch]

Has anyone ever done anything with the aftermath scenario presented in the last Wrath of the Righteous book in which what if the players fail to stop the worldwound? Kinda like a golarion end times campaign with that serving as a starting point with maybe other stuff added as well.

[sinful gyro]

I know of some post apoc games but not sure if that was the cause

[frozen hatch]

Not post apocalypse but rather think of it more as the start of and events of the apocalypse with maybe the party being tasked to rally defenders and broker alliances to try and stop or push back the doom from the worldwound.

The apocalyptic event isn't in the future or past, it is in the present.

[surreal basin]

Oh hey!

Can something with the remaster check if Final Form still exists for nephilim

It was like my favorite tiefling feat

[rustic cape]

It doesn’t

[surreal basin]

Awww

Sadness

[frank crystal]

Ah that sucks

[paper juniper]

so my friend is thinking of GMing a pf game where we start at level 16 then get hit with a gay baby beam back to level 8

i may make my dudette inspired by maya and white chain

unmonk class :3

what are some suggestions to have both the palm style and some weapon shenanigns?

[surreal basin]

Not much that’s reccomended, doing both is definitely hard

Monastic weaponry is an obvious grab

If you wanna have two stances that you switch between there’s the peacock stance that uses swords which is specc’d for temple sword

And then you’d want an unarmed stance

And eventually you’d pick up fuse stances but that’s v late game

[paper juniper]

oh

i should have

explained

we in 1e

[surreal basin]

Oh

Uhhhh

In that case is there a specific unarmed style you wanna use?

If so, grab that and a relevant weapon fighting style and use this

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/weapon-mastery-feats/weapon-style-mastery-style-weapon-mastery/

Oh shit actually

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/ascetic-style-combat-style

Forgot about that

[silver geyser]

There's also the fun of Shikigami Style

[rustic cape]

So I was looking at the NuWitch Hex Cantrips and thinking, these are a little anemic, no? And then I remembered their action costs.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah that's the whole point iirc
You get a lil baby spell you can cram into other spellcasting turns

[warped orbit]

still not quite sure about some hexes, unless they got more substantial changes than I heard so far

[rustic cape]

A lot of them are sustained spells that synergize with cackle

[turbid dagger]

Also:
I become more and more infatuated with the idea of a 1-11 game
So many cool monster families fill that bracket
Skelms, Hags, Trolls (with the exception of Jotund), DINOSAURS

What are some of y'all's fave monster families?

[silver geyser]

Daemons.

[turbid dagger]

I've been looking at daemons myself recently
Which spiraled off from looking into Urdefhans, another fave 1-11 range monster family

[silver geyser]

Lot of good variety, no worries about if you're morally right to get rid of them, covers basically all CR's, can be mooks, lieutenants, or Big Bads.

[carmine egret]

I'm pretty charmed by regular animals in PF2, the mechanical gimmicks are just kinda more fun applied to normal critters

[worthy stump]

i love Beasts

[turbid dagger]

Urdefhan Dominator seems like a scary final boss at level 11
What with y'know
PL+3 Dominate

[rustic cape]

Like this seems pretty good for a single-action buff

[barren cipher]

just damage rolls?

that's not bad

[turbid dagger]

How much do Elite and Weak modify a creatures level by in practice?
Like, is a level 14 Weak creature effectively level 13, or effectively level 12

[sinful gyro]

+1 -1

[barren cipher]

it's a bit wobbly especially with spellcasters but that's roughly where it puts the numbers

[turbid dagger]

Got it, thank you!

[warped orbit]

approximately one level up or down, yeah
but it's a little less precise in some cases

[surreal basin]

Yeah it’s a little rough

[rustic cape]

Is there a general take on Animist at this point? Aside from being obviously rad.

[turbid dagger]

From what I recall, it gets a lot of good spells to supplement the divine list from its spirits and people really like that
But the Sage subclass is kind of mid (and iirc stated to be going away in the playtest after action report), and some of the stuff was seen as kind of niche, like a leap+sustain action

[echo briar]

the leap and sustain action was the best feat, not niche at all

You could move whenever you sustained a spell, which is huge

its very easy to make that 15 feet of movement every turn

Has Murksight been changed in the remaster?

[warped orbit]

Sustaining Dance was huge yeah

[turbid dagger]

It ust occured to me that the actual wrapup blogpost may be useful to you: https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sif3

[frank crystal]

I think I’m gonna try running a playtest focused one shot soon

Specifically one that I need people to play an exemplar and an animist

[turbid dagger]

I'm allowing Exemplar and Animist for my upcoming oneshot to entice some of my more experience friends to do a level 1 thing

[frank crystal]

Oh neat

[coral anvil]

I would be willing to take a crack in a one shot for level 1 stuff, gimme a yell if you need a body

[frank crystal]

Does paizo periodically release updated version of the playtest classes before the official release?

[limber comet]

No

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[warped orbit]

we're probably not gonna see much more of the classes until release

[frank crystal]

So for non mountain stance non finesse monks, is dex or con generally more important for survivability?

[worthy stump]

depends on how willing you are to chug drakeheart mutagens like they're going out of style. more seriously though, i'm not sure. i invested equally into both on mine and it's been working out fine enough, but without the mutagen up the AC can be rough

[turbid dagger]

Dex
16 Dex puts you at medium armor AC but if you go lower than that you are gonna be in some trouble

[frank crystal]

IC, and yah with only a +2 you basically have the AC of a caster while on the frontlines

[turbid dagger]

You in theory can supplement it with Raise A Shield also with Flurry Of Blows but the idea of a 12 dex monk that is obliged to raise shield every turn for medium armor ac makes me very sad

[warped orbit]

you need Dex for AC

no real way around it

[turbid dagger]

There are some extremely limited ways around it
Like Scales Of The Dragon
But yeah 16 dex is what you should aim for for a str monk

[worthy stump]

i've been supplementing my 14 Dex monk's AC with Drakeheart Mutagens, since i'm pretty sure it still uses your unarmored prof, and it gives you a big AC boost. duration and supply is definitely an issue at lower levels, though, so helps to either pick up the alchemist archetype or have an alchemist buddy

[solar storm]

I’m running a campaign for one and in general I think it’s very cool and pretty strong

That said I think channeler’s flexibility beats Sage

Garden of Healing is head and shoulders above anything else for out of combat healing

And sustaining dance or whatever it’s called is probably too strong for a fear

But a real good move for them to have

(This is mostly the feedback I gave haha)

[turbid dagger]

(Kingmaker Part 1 Spoilers:) ||Nishkiv the Knife, level 1 little shit rogue enemy||, has earned himself a legendary place in our group by paradoxically dodging all of our attacks for like 3 rounds and downing 2 players by himself
He defied all odds to give us more trouble than the ||wounded frost giant||
Alas, he fell to Fighter Crits all the same

[robust heron]

nice, my party ||allied with the frost giants and successfully intimidated nishkiv into standing down||

so looks like complete opposite results

[turbid dagger]

My fighter wanted to knock him unconscious with a fist strike but he barely managed to survive and drink a healing potion, and when I sworded him to get his health back down I uh
Crit Him

[robust heron]

rip

[turbid dagger]

Every big enemy so far has been killed by a Kalt crit
The ||wounded frost giant||, the ||blind ogre||, and ||Nishkiv||
Linzi has a crush on him

He's exactly the galant monster slayer she was looking for, but a hobgoblin agent from Oprak

[surreal basin]

don't remember if I shared but my

Gm made me a custom, slightly op feat for my investigator

would be more op if i could use it for anything beyond the coffee

[warped orbit]

oh that was for you

I remember seeing this on the reddit a while ago

[surreal basin]

Yeah!

It got mixed reviews :3

[surreal basin]

oh i also thought yall would appreciate an npc that will be showing up in my game soon

Devamidhusa, Lord of the House of Blades, Titan of Kherr, Bloody Master

He's a weird demi-god putting on a tournament the players are gonna enter

[unborn rain]

Class Demi-god behaviour

[rustic cape]

Wild speculation: exemplar is based distantly on 3.5 incarnum and animist is based distantly on 3.5 binder

[unborn rain]

I thought animist was a pathfinder 1e class? Or at least based on one?

[rustic cape]

It might be? I dunno PF1e well. A friend and I were observing that they feel a lot like incarnum classes and binders, mechanically.

Exemplars have the whole rotating through empowering special magic items thing, and animists have the "draw on an increasing roster of spirits to gain pretty varied special abilities" bit

[turbid quartz]

Did they change the lore for goblins in 2e?

Goblins were the Silly Mascot Race in 1e

[unborn rain]

to my knowledge quite a bit as they made like people instead of treating them as sort of monsters

they still get to be very silly

[turbid quartz]

Ah

[unborn rain]

but that's like the changes most things went through for the transition

[turbid quartz]

IDK I feel mildly uncomfortable whenever I see "joke non-human races." IDK why

Like Gungans

I remember in Rise of the Runelords they were treated as Kill On Sight monsters

[solar tendon]

its partially an advancement of lore

through some events

[turbid quartz]

Which makes me feel uncomfortable because, like...are all members of this race/species like that?

[rustic cape]

In general 2E avoids that, and with the death of alignment for the remaster it'll be avoiding that even more

[light gyro]

Goblin wackiness is tied up in their ancestry feats getting cartoonish stuff like being bouncy to reduce fall damage

[eager mountain]

look at this ugly boi

NEW faction.

[light gyro]

For society?

[eager mountain]

nah

or mabye idk

[trail nova]

Notably, I think Michael Sayre was involved in Akashic Magic, the 1e port of Incarnum, and Exemplar. Though I don't have an amazing opinion of him - he was pretty touchy about other people writing content for the Akasha subsystem.

[rustic cape]

Interesting

But yeah I have fallen hard for Animist

Seems extremely fun

[turbid dagger]

They were both touted as completely new classes during the teasers, but they have vague Shaman vibes

[clever cobalt]

still waiting for the Non-Evil Dark Tapestry Faction

[frank crystal]

Hmm, what are some good low level magic items for a summoner?

Ones less then 3 levels

[solar tendon]

including level 3 or no

[turbid dagger]

A wand of magic fang is a good early purchase
Wands in general, make up for them teeny slots

[solar tendon]

+1 weapon is the main priority

spellheart if level 3 is decent

or one of the basic staffs

[frank crystal]

Including

[frank crystal]

Yah I’ve already got handwraps of mighty blows

[solar tendon]

yeah I'd get a staff spellheart or wand

or a skill item if you have a skill you use that is available at level 3

[frank crystal]

I’ve specced a bit into intimidation

[solar tendon]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2214

this is an option

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

[true delta]

Hello, friends. After pestering y'all for years by asking for various clarifications, I shall finally get to run a campaign. I have one more pestering to do: Would it be unwise to use "background deviant abilities" from Dark Archive, and I mean the way free archetypes are used? We're all fairly new to the system, so if this might mess with balance, that would be of interest.

[solar storm]

I haven’t used them personally but I don’t think it would be more distorting than free archetype and that works fine

[true delta]

Ok, cool. Thank you!

I suppose using aftermath feats as well would be another matter... but I'll just use those sparingly, I guess.

[frank crystal]

ok so my player who's planning to play a vigilante pointed out some text that could cause issue

"Your class feats and vigilante feats are associated with your vigilante identity, and using them while in your social identity risks exposing you as a vigilante. This means that if you were particularly meek or inconspicuous before you took this feat, your identity could be at greater risk of exposure."

Im kinda wondering how to even run this

[warped orbit]

it just means that if they are unexpectedly capable in their social persona, people might make the connection between them and the vigilante persona more easily

[silver geyser]

Yep yep.

I will point the 1e Vigilante fact that is still true: You can 100% just not care about the secret identity if you want.

[frank crystal]

I guess I’m just wondering if there’s any like, rules effects for that

[unborn rain]

+1 to a check to figure it out or something

[silver geyser]

Oooooh, Sky King's Tomb gives me another bomb to like.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2669

[light gyro]

||"This flask is full of shrapnel and anti-coagulants designed to make targets bleed out"||
Most ethical alchemist weapon

[silver geyser]

At least it's not radiation poisoning.

[light gyro]

I try to keep my games rather light in tone but it's hard to ignore that half the bad guys are dying from fire bombs that set them on fire

[warped orbit]

don't forget that you can have basically straight up mustard gas

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2008

[turbid dagger]

If something has Push and Knockdown, can you hit with it, push, then knockdown
Or can you not knockdown since your previous action was Push, not the strike with the required attack
I suspect its the latter (push breaking knockdown) but just making sure
(Thinking about a Street Skelm encounter)

[warped orbit]

I think the latter interpretation is correct

[barren cipher]

it’s an either/or yeah

[warped orbit]

because yeah if you use either, your last action is no longer a Strike

[turbid dagger]

Shame
There does not seem to be a great deal of reason to use the Skelm's punishing strike then

[barren cipher]

you don’t have to push if you don’t want to

power attack with baked in knockdown or grab, or one action power attack, is really good

[trail nova]

... Thinking of a gunslinger who's just a random russian soldier who ended up in Irresen. Keeps ranting about how terrible muskets are.

[clever cobalt]

I had a similar idea with a Doughboy in Alkenstar

Either a Gunslinger or Fighter

[trail nova]

Doughboy?

[clever cobalt]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doughboy

American WW1 era soldier

[trail nova]

Ah, yeah that would be funny.

[turbid dagger]

Honestly, a capacity two handed firearm would be barely different from one without so a bolt action rifle wouldn't be out of hand in PF2e's balancing

[clever cobalt]

Either they get used to ancient (by their standards) guns or they just go "fuck it" and go full trench raider inspired melee

Though true

Naturally the idea in my head has connections of uh

"How can I justify them being non-human"

Or turning them non-human

Though it is the Mana Wastes

[unborn rain]

fleshwarps the easiest one

[clever cobalt]

Stranger things have happened there

And yeah exactly

Fleshwarp may work best

[unborn rain]

Skeleton

[clever cobalt]

Undead are unfortunately not very fun to play

At least in my expirienfr

As cool as they are

Regardless uh

[unborn rain]

undead are cool if you're in a undead campaign

[clever cobalt]

Damn now I'm thinking about this character agaib

Trying to figure out how a Doughboy from Brookyln would adapt to Alkenstar

And true, though there is only one module where that works

[unborn rain]

I think it'd be oddly easy? Like Alkenstar's already pretty American

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

But uh

Being in another world probably isn't an easy adaption overall

Like I know that sounds like an iskeai thing

But going from mostly mundane (on the surface) 1910s Earth to Golarion is uh

Quite the change

[unborn rain]

Alkenstar is probaly the easiest place to adapt to though

[clever cobalt]

Yeah agreed

[unborn rain]

low on magic people and non-humans

[clever cobalt]

Also do you think a Trench Raider is a Dex or Str fighter?

Thinking Str with a warhammer and shield

But I'm not entirely sure

[unborn rain]

Trench raider is str fighter

because Trench raiding used like a lot melee than guns

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[unborn rain]

because the whole point is to be sneaky at night

They should still have some dex though, because WW1 armour probably

[eager mountain]

I’m not sure it exists

[clever cobalt]

I know

But I wish it did

[turbid dagger]

Flumphs
They're the non evil dark tapestry faction

[frank crystal]

Dark tapestry?

[light gyro]

Iirc, cthulu style gribblies

[unborn rain]

dark tapestry is Cthulu and stuff iirc

[frank crystal]

Ah

[unborn rain]

and that I think includes the evil space empire

well the other evil space empire

the one which isnt the Azlanti I think do dark tapestry stuff

[rustic cape]

Oh hey they made the character sheet not physically painful to look at

[vivid lark]

so been pondering throwing weapon build 🤔

is there a class that excel at it or are the good feats spread out on all the martial classes?

[barren cipher]

dragon barb

especially with two weapon archetype

[vivid lark]

oh, was really hoping for like, rogue or ranger to be the best throwing class thanks for the help

[carmine egret]

throwing barb sounds pretty cool to me tbh

[barren cipher]

i think thrown generally best fits a ranged/melee flex rather than a central game plan for the most part

[vivid lark]

like to me, throwing weapon barbarian would be either "improvised weapon" archetype or giant bloodline

for this

[surreal basin]

Throwing ranger also is definitely like

Possible

[vivid lark]

like why throw rational things as a barbarian when you could be throwing other party members

guess I have to go with fun builds like shuriken monk or bolas champion in stead

or cheat and go with kineticist

[coral anvil]

Gonna get to play in a campaign on Monday! Starting at level 1, kingmaker

Gonna be a Human Nomad Kineticist, Air/Earth

[rustic cape]

Doing Fistful of Flowers tonight

[light gyro]

Choosing to believe that the frozen wilds kitsune heritage has a feature functionally identical to the wintertouched human ancestry specifically so kitsune players can trick the party into thinking they've rolled a regular human. verisimilitude

[surreal basin]

Alright I’m doing a little tournament arc in my home campaign

I’m gonna start with a variant of the chase rules to simulate a battle royale

And then go into bouts with enemy teams

But I wanna figure out some other non-combat encounters to shake things up

[echo briar]

Harrison armory!

HA is trying to colonize Golarion, knew it

[turbid dagger]

Finding it kind of funny that one of the best classes for Conrasu is Barbarian
You get a parry equivalent you can use with two handed weapons, perma enlarge, self healing, CON/WIS/Free boosts for a Cha malus
I also see Exemplar being quite nice once that's out

[turbid dagger]

Speaking of Exemplar, does anyone know if there's a way to get Wanderer's Guide to do Exemplar? I know it had Playtest Kineticist before ROE came out

[warped orbit]

I know someone made a custom module for Pathbuilder, don't know if Wanderer's can do that too

[turbid dagger]

Ohhhh neat!
I'll do that then, if you know where to find the pathbuilder version

[warped orbit]

lemme check real quick, I downloaded it a while ago

I think it's this one

you can import that into Pathbuilder and it should work

it's a little jank for some stuff, but mostly works

[turbid dagger]

Nice
Time for Greatsword Gleaming Blade Conrasu
No MAP double strike (with the baked in -2 on the second attack, admittedly) with an effective d14 weapon at level 1 😳

[warped orbit]

yeah Gleaming Blade is pretty sick

[turbid dagger]

Does anyone know how many actions this is supposed to be
From Xulgath Ravening, part of (Spoilers for which adventure path this NPC features in) ||sky kings tomb||

[heavy fulcrum]

demiplane's pathfinder nexus says 2 actions

https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e/creatures/xulgath-ravening

[turbid dagger]

Thank you
(I'm digging through the bestiary for neat monsters to procastinate learning how to make maps)

[turbid dagger]

Alright, building an exemplar
One thing I've noticed is that since so many of the feats add extra Transcends you may not like to use, Exemplar is a really good Archetype chassis
I've dodged the light armor prof by just taking sentinel at level 2 and rocking Hide armor

[true delta]

So I'm running a dungeon crawl next Thursday. My experience with dungeon crawls (in other, but D&D-like games) has been that in exploration mode, people move into random rooms, triggering events or they move at very different paces. So I'm considering stealing an idea from ShadowDark and going around the table in what's basically turns, even during exploration. I suppose movement wouldn't need to be counted as strictly and all but my impression is that dungeoncrawls need more strictly organized exploration than, say, roleplay in a tavern. Any thoughts from the hivemind?

[rustic cape]

PF2e generally assumes that during exploration the party is moving as a group and each member is performing a specific exploration activity, so that might ease some pressure on that front.

[coral anvil]

Getting to play air/earth Kineticist tomorrow. Gonna be interesting!

[eager mountain]

https://vxtwitter.com/whatdoyoudopods/status/1700662934441975929

[true delta]

Thank you! I'll read up on exploration activities, then!

Oh, but why am I here?

I'm here to ask about a feat:

"1d6 damage for every 2 levels you have to the target" -- Does this mean you only damage foes whose creature level is lower than your character's level?

Or does "level" mean something else here?

[silver geyser]

No

[worthy stump]

it's just your character level

so if you're level 10, it's 5d6

[true delta]

Ah

thanks

[charred patrol]

the beam deals (insert damage here) to the target
damage is (1d6 for every two levels you have)

[true delta]

the "to" is you deal damage to the target

okokok, thank you!

[frank crystal]

Wait what feat is this?

Where do you even get it?

[worthy stump]

it has the Deviant trait, so i think it's something from a Dark Archives subsystem?

[sinful gyro]

Maybe the campaign for it?

The tarrot onew

[worthy stump]

oh, could be that too, yeah

AoN says both Dark Archives and the Gatewalkers Player's Guide

[frank crystal]

ohhhh

[unborn rain]

does that have acool down?

[sinful gyro]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3780

Can read it here

[unborn rain]

it doesnt!

very crazy

[charred patrol]

i think deviant abilities have an innate chance of backlash?

[warped orbit]

I mean, its a cantrip basically

[sinful gyro]

Seems comparable to kinieticist blast, which is still good

[unborn rain]

1 action

[warped orbit]

Okay the two action version is pretty decent

[charred patrol]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1725

[barren cipher]

it's also spell attack or class dc

[charred patrol]

specifically this is a dragon type one

https://2e.aonprd.com/DeviantFeats.aspx?ID=1

[barren cipher]

so kinda questionable for a lot of people but good times on anyone with access to saving throw spells or lacking in ranged options and with a decent spell attack

[turbid dagger]

Yeah weaving this into caster turns seems like the best use
2 action damage save, laser with no MAP on the same dude

[warped orbit]

It's decent yeah

Infinite use Elemental Toss I guess

[paper juniper]

oh?
whats going on over here

[charred patrol]

it'll also randomly explode on you the more you spam it, eventually turning itself off, so it's not entirely "infinite"

[warped orbit]

Oh right the backlash, yeah

[turbid dagger]

Oh my goodness Pathbuilder has an encounter maker????
In beta but

[unborn rain]

ooh la la

finally an upgrade to the website I've been using which stopped getting updated Years ago

[solar tendon]

huh?

[turbid dagger]

https://pathbuilder2e.com/beta/encounters.html

[unborn rain]

it looks pretty cool

[true delta]

Re: deviant abilities
Hmm... My Gatewalkers party is going to have an optimizer/build enjoyer who would probably love a free archetype. Since we're going to use deviant abilities the way free archetype is used (an additional feat every few levels), I've opted not to have players have a free archetype, as well... But... The regular, non-free archetype could be a solution, right? The build-making enthusiast will get more options without player characters swimming in helpful feats from various sources. And the archetype would be optional for the less crunch-oriented players. Does this make sense?

[barren cipher]

i don’t really feel that it adds all that much optimisation outside a few exceptions

class feats are almost universally more powerful with a few exceptions specifically to enable some stuff you can’t normally do in every class, like two weapon warrior, or the occasional “int caster on investigator” affair

[true delta]

hmm

[solar tendon]

what is the question here

[true delta]

In other words: Would it be inadvisible to give players both a free archetype and deviant feats every few levels?

[barren cipher]

if you have an optimiser i would suggest pointing them in the direction of either a class with a lot of moving parts, or inviting them to do some weird shit

[solar tendon]

oh that's probably fine

[solar storm]

That's probably not gonna break things

[true delta]

Hmm

[solar tendon]

strength of thousands kinda does that

[true delta]

Wuold it overwhelm less mechanics-oriented players?

[solar tendon]

except with the academia subsystem instead of deviant feats

[barren cipher]

strength of thousands is a bit of a spreadsheet honestly

[solar tendon]

the fact that there's very few options for deviant stuff should mean it's not much more than regular free archetype

from a like. differing levels of motivation to optimise perspective I think free archetype can actually be simpler than default? paradoxically?

cause you just gotta pick one or two things that fit your character and then you get those things

[barren cipher]

i feel like a less mechanically inclined player would probably just pick whatever at the level it became available at

and maybe be a bit suboptimal as a result

[solar tendon]

whereas in the default game archetypes you're having to consider class feats vs archetypes and what level you take things etc etc

[barren cipher]

but the gap between tippy top optimised and randomly selected is pretty small

[true delta]

Okay, so using both free archetype and deviant feats would probably work

I should check whether it'll all fit on the character sheet, lol

I hope it's okay I ask so many questions. I haven't really run PF2 before and I want to do it well. And neither be too restrictive nor have anything break the game, ya know?

[unborn rain]

if people thought you were asking too many question you'd probably know

like I think the people here are mature enough that if it was an issue they'd be able to verbalise it

[thorny berry]

dual weapon warrior is a decent one-stop shot as far as just going for a 'fuck it, ranged double slice' strategy

and honestly that's maybe one of the few actual unique things you can actually do with thrown weapons, they simply don't have a lot of feat support generally. Seconding that they're mostly decent as a flex option on a melee build- swashbuckler and champion have some unique options to take advantage of it. Shuriken monk is also a thing that exists but I don't that it really gains much over monastic archer.

[trail nova]

Would be nice to have a throwing specialist archetype

[silver geyser]

Exemplar is going to have fun Thrown stuff.

[turbid dagger]

I just realized
Cantrips being moved from enhanced damage dice instead of teeny dice and spellcaster mod is an indirect buff to Magus
Like, Gouging Claw is 2d6 instead of 1d6+mod post remaster
Which is dollar signs for a Magus

[unborn rain]

Why is that good for Magus?

[frank crystal]

Magus’s tend to have a lower spellcasting modifier then other spellcasters

So the extra dice tend to mean more average damage then adding their spellcasting modifier does

[unborn rain]

A buff for level 1 to 4 and 10 upwards

[warped orbit]

Gouging Claw also deals bleed on success now, so Magus are coming out pretty well from the cantrip changes

still kinda wish they had changed a bit more about cantrips

the ones that were good before are still the good ones, and the ones that were bad are still kinda worse than other options (Daze primarily)

[frank crystal]

Is electric arc still the best?

[warped orbit]

yeah

it's slightly worse than before, but so is almost every other cantrip

[frank crystal]

I really don’t like how centralizing electric arc is

Also huh

My party for today’s one shot is 2 swashbucklers, a drifter gunslinger, a thaumaturge, and a ranger

Everything is gonna die huh?

My thaumaturge and ranger are gonna point at something and they’re going to instantly die

[solar tendon]

there should really just be a range of aoe cantrips of that power level

[frank crystal]

Absolutely yah

[solar tendon]

and have single target cantrips just be a range niche

[frank crystal]

Electric arc is not only very solid on its own

It’s like the only AOE cantrip

[silver geyser]

Ha ha, damage go BRRRRRT

[warped orbit]

we almost got that with Caustic Blast

[solar tendon]

it's an aoe cantrip that requires like zero positioning too

[warped orbit]

but it still scales at +2

and is harder to multihit than EA

[frank crystal]

I am ready for my bosses to last one turn

[solar tendon]

which I think is fine if it was electric arcs gimmick among other aoe cantrips

that hit harder or hit more

[trail nova]

And possibly even some extra damage.

[frank crystal]

Though actually I am very excited

Because the whole idea of this game is that they’re high up on various moving platforms (the airships)

[warped orbit]

EA is:

• a basic save, so way more reliable than an attack roll
• a rarely resisted type
• hits two targets at full scaling with generous range requirements

[frank crystal]

So it’s really gonna be a question of how they get to the objective

[turbid dagger]

That's if you invest in int as a magus, which imo is not worth
If you are only spellstriking or casting utility spells then you don't really need int at all as a magus

[clever cobalt]

Oh yeah

Did they nerf Hammer/Flail Crit Spec,

[turbid dagger]

It's a save against class dc like Brawling iirc

[clever cobalt]

Meteor Hammer or Maul?

Cant decide myself

[turbid dagger]

Meteor hammer has reach so if you expect to crit with some frequency you can make someone very sad
Class is also a factor

[clever cobalt]

Fighter

[worthy stump]

reach and flail crit effect on a fighter is pretty strong

[warped orbit]

Meteor Hammer is great

[frank crystal]

Meteor hammer is so strong

[warped orbit]

there is also the Dorn Dergar as an alternative now, though it doesn't have Trip

and you need to make it scale somehow, since its advanced

long hammer is also good

though I think flail crit is slightly better than hammers now

[frank crystal]

What is hammers crit again?

[warped orbit]

since AFAIK flail is a Ref save, hammer is a Fort save

[silver geyser]

Dorn Dergar is nice for dwarves, iirc

[warped orbit]

if you are a Dwarf, it's good yeah

though it not having Trip is something of a tradeoff, but manageable if you got Knockdown anyway

between crits and Knockdown you can Prone things quite easily

[craggy thunder]

You know what I kinda wanna homebrew, speaking of dwarves

A dual wield line based around offhanding your clan dagger

[frank crystal]

Is there a dragon/Wyvern/Drake animal companion?

Any kind of dragon kin really

[warped orbit]

riding drake

[frank crystal]

Sick

[warped orbit]

https://2e.aonprd.com/AnimalCompanions.aspx?ID=33

also kind of this thing

not draconic technically, but its also kinda funky

[frank crystal]

I mean it’s a sapient lizard thing

With elemental powers

[craggy thunder]

orc riding drake champ was one of my character ideas

[frank crystal]

What do they do?

[craggy thunder]

They're a cool af land dragon thing

I think they have fire breath?

Also

Orc Paladin cresting a hill riding one

Cool as fuck

[frank crystal]

Oh I meant like the character

I know what riding drakes get

[craggy thunder]

Oh the character

I mean in my idea of them as an npc they hunted people who stole dragon eggs

And worshipped that triad of justice gods led by Bahamut

Or

Not Bahamut

[frank crystal]

Oh cool

[craggy thunder]

The PF version of Bahamut

Apsu?

and of course their divine ally was what else but a mount

[frank crystal]

Of course

[craggy thunder]

They were also from Tian Xia

And since they were a rider, I had them use a polearm

guandao time

[frank crystal]

Honestly I wanna run that dragoon boss I had for the one shot I just ran as a more permanent character

Either a NPC in a game or a PC

Because they were very fun

[frank crystal]

What does the guandoa do?

[craggy thunder]

I mean I actually don't even know if guandao like

mechanically exist as a separate weapon

Basically a glaive

[frank crystal]

Oh

I mean yah

If it doesn’t exist

A glaive or naginata works fine for it

[craggy thunder]

It's statistically a glaive

[frank crystal]

It’s a curved pole arm it’s not super complicated

[craggy thunder]

and not a naginata cuz I imagine them being more Chinese inspired

[frank crystal]

Yah

I’m just saying that the stats of the naginata would also work fine

Because it’s representing that similar style of weapon

A pole arm with a curved blade at its end

[craggy thunder]

Fairs

[frank crystal]

Also I gotta make axe beak cavalry a thing in my world

just for chocobo riders

[turbid dagger]

If I ever play Frozen Flame my plan is a precision ranger on a Terror Bird

A bit lower tech than usual but

[frank crystal]

What’s the level of tech for your usual?

[turbid dagger]

Oh I just mean
Frozen Flame is a Mammoth Lords campaign
So you are going around in furs with knapped stone spears
Instead of swords and chainmail

[frank crystal]

Ohhhh

So by the standards of the setting frozen flame is lower tech

[turbid dagger]

Yes, The Realm Of The Mammoth Lords is a funny little pocket of caveman in the fantasy setting

God I love the Realm so much

[sinful gyro]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1z-geip6XSBSqxRwgYjb_TfsmfqnlqFyNX4-qZ-twDqM/htmlview?pli=1

Remaster changes master doc

Wip

[paper juniper]

Hmm
I have made my Monk be a mix of KSBD Maya and DMC Vergil

(In a continuous search of power to reach a point where they feel they can take care of stuff in their backstory and not be corrupted by power's influence but unknowingly have been influenced quite a bit already)

Is lawful good still a good alignment? Or should i shift to lawful neutral?
(We're playing 1e)

[turbid quartz]

Cool old lady with a katana?

[sinful gyro]

ADHD feat time

https://tenor.com/view/dwarf-dig-diggy-diggy-diggy-hole-gif-24120660

[paper juniper]

more like
lady in her mid 20's who has abandoned her master's teachings and may need a reality check

[paper juniper]

thinking more of maya in her backstory

[frank crystal]

Ok so after running yesterdays one shot

I really do need to give my bosses more HP

Because when they’re the focus god players can output so much damage in this game

[paper juniper]

God players or "oh my god" players

[light gyro]

e-gads! players can output so much damage

[frank crystal]

Ok that was just a typo lol

I meant to say “oh my god”

I do not have any divine beings in my group unfortunately

[paper juniper]

Oki oki
Yeah

You'd be surprised lol
At level 9 our group was able to Jump a major BBEG'S general and would have won had it not been for them teleporting

Wall of force for the win baybee

[frank crystal]

Oh damn

What level was the general?

[paper juniper]

10?
They also had some goons and summoned a Gashadokuro
Which our Magus promptly oneshotted with a crit

[frank crystal]

Holy shit

[paper juniper]

And they were a posessed previous party member
BBEG put a fucked up crown on em

[frank crystal]

Did they get better?

[paper juniper]

I also set up 2 Spiritual Weapons with 4 attacks total and then cast FireStorm so
:3

[paper juniper]

Still at large

[frank crystal]

[frank crystal]

Damn

[paper juniper]

The player that portrayed them is still in out party as a really snooty elf wizard

Which died then came back by my character's grace

Which resulted in an argument and party drama when said wizard wouldn't display gratitude

My character in a drunken state then said a hurtful thing (think " thats why yo mama dead") and now there is party drama and tension

[frank crystal]

Oh that sounds super fun

[paper juniper]

Yeah lol

To clarify the hurtful thing was "that's why your husband left you"
When said character'a backstory involves their husband being a total dipshit

Which is known OOC but not by my character

[frank crystal]

Oh that hurts

[paper juniper]

Yyyyep

In good news we got to wear snazzy outfits last session

And discovered another of our party members is in fact a prince

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

Was it like a high society thing?

[paper juniper]

Dinner with the prince's family

So yeah

[frank crystal]

Oh yah that makes sense

[paper juniper]

Any fun stuff going on in yo game?

[frank crystal]

In one game I’ve had a lot of drama between my character, and 2 of my friends characters

Mostly that one of them (a cleric) fucking hates mine and my friends character lol

[paper juniper]

Damn

[frank crystal]

Because my friends character is a habitual liar

And my character is just very grim

[paper juniper]

interesting

[frank crystal]

What’s the longest range you can get on a bow?

[barren cipher]

i don't think there's much that increases range other than far shot

everything else that comes to mind decreases penalties and such

so 1200'?

sukgung goes to 2400 and backpack catapult to 2880

[frank crystal]

Yah range increments only work up to 6 increments away right?

[barren cipher]

yep

[frank crystal]

So with far shot the backpack catapult has an effective range of 2880 feet

Just with like

A -10

[barren cipher]

there's some ranger(?) feat that lets you fire up to the fifth increment without penalty

[frank crystal]

Holy shit

[barren cipher]

and a talisman that negates all penalties if you're feeling spendy

[frank crystal]

Ok so a like

Cross country sniper is very much possible

[barren cipher]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=546

[frank crystal]

Just very high level

[barren cipher]

if you're a decent level and trying to murder normal people i can see being able to absorb the penalties

[silver geyser]

The backpack catapault is now a fun thing I want to build.

[barren cipher]

bean some local noble from half a mile away with a massive rock

[frank crystal]

Yah at a certain point even with a -10 you can still hit a weak enemy

Like a guard has an AC of like

13

[barren cipher]

they're off guard, that's -2

[frank crystal]

If you have a +30 it doesn’t matter if you’re hitting with a -10

You’re still guaranteed to hit

[silver geyser]

And pretty likely to crit.

In fact, with that +20, you're critting on everything but a 2.

[barren cipher]

i mean if you have a +30 you can just walk in their front door, murder them and walk out, who's gonna stop you

[frank crystal]

I mean maybe but like

They could have powerful people surrounding them

They’re a noble their main power is being rich

Being rich means being able to hire good bodyguards

[thorny berry]

on that note I do still kinda want to include Assassin in a build at some point

but it seems very dm dependent as far as whether you get an opportunity to mark a target for death before combat begins

[frank crystal]

Honestly the fact it requires you to be completely undetected kinda kills it for me

Especially since it also requires you be able to hear your target

For some reason

[thorny berry]

What does? Mark for death doesn't.

[frank crystal]

Mark for death does

[thorny berry]

I don't see anything about undetected on the description

[frank crystal]

Oh I thought you meant for the being able to hear your target

[thorny berry]

I mean I suppose you do have to be undetected- or just not noted as suspicious in a crowd or something- to be able to mark them stealthily without immediately rolling initiative

[frank crystal]

I was referring to the assassinate action

[thorny berry]

ah, gotcha

[frank crystal]

Which you need to be unnoticed actually

Not undetected

[thorny berry]

yeah that's rather unfortunate

[solar tendon]

I like it with the new firebrands feat too

I think with assassin you can kinda treat it like an alt rogue dedication tho

like mark for death is a pretty big buff for just the dedication feat so the restrictions make sense

but if you want to pick up suprise attack and some sneak damage its pretty good

[warped orbit]

Mark is okay

Assassinate is just near impossible to make work except in a narrative circumstance

[frank crystal]

I mean my thing is that unless you have the ability to set it up in advance you just, give up your entire first turn

And imo it’s almost never worth an entire turn

[solar tendon]

and the backstab buff is decent especially in free archetype with little competition

I mean I think that's fine yknow

[warped orbit]

I think the idea with Mark is you do it before you actually get into a fight

[solar tendon]

yeah

[warped orbit]

but it's really not very clear

[solar tendon]

it's kinda similar to hunt prey

or investigator pursue a lead

[frank crystal]

I mean with hunt prey it’s only 1 action

So if you don’t get it off before combat it’s fine

[solar tendon]

sure

but hunt prey outside of ranger is also a much smaller buff than mark for death

[frank crystal]

That’s fair

[solar tendon]

assassinate is rough though cause undetected is a lot harder to get than hidden

[frank crystal]

I mean it’s not even undetected, it’s unnoticed

Which correct me if I’m wrong

There’s no way to become unnoticed once a fight breaks out?

[solar tendon]

maybe like

enchantment magic

[warped orbit]

correct

they need to be entirely unaware you are there at all

[frank crystal]

Yah

[solar tendon]

like modify memory could do it

[turbid dagger]

Depending on how you interpret things there's also one or two abilities or spells that let you fake your death that would do it

Because like
They have no knowledge that you are not dead

[solar tendon]

it would be a cool deception legendary feat

like

create a diversion but now it makes you unnoticed cause you can convince them you're gone gone

[unborn rain]

Legendary deception feat: Allowed to lie to the DM at will

[thorny berry]

stealth has such a weird power curve given that once you hit 15 and get legendary sneak a big portion of its mechanics just kinda disappear

which isn't really a complaint, but it's interesting

[frank crystal]

If I run a gunbreaker gunslinger, I really think I’m going to use a musket axe but flavor it as a gunsword

Because like, gun swords are so classic so I wanna use them

But also I like fatal on my firearms to much

[solar tendon]

yeah

legit

[frank crystal]

Especially with the gunsword/musket axe only having a d6 die

I’m fine with concussive on bigger weapons but not really them

Though, I could just go triggerband

Maybe take a shield as well

Fatal d8 instead of d10 and a d4 instead of d6

But finesse on the melee profile

And a free hand for a shield or something else

[coral anvil]

Well, this game is awful.

[frank crystal]

Wha happened?

[coral anvil]

i derailed htings by casting aerial boomerang, because the gm had no idea what the boat shouldbe doing for reflex save/hp

just entirely disaorgnaized

[frank crystal]

Oh that sucks

Yah I think I’ll go for the triggerband weapon for my triggerband gunslinger

Fulfills the gunsword fantasy and having a free hand does feel nice to use a shield

[turbid dagger]

Or you can do Duelist for the true Gunbreaker experience 👀

[frank crystal]

honestly, it could lead to some nice stuff

Grab fighter dedication

[warped orbit]

There are vehicle rules, if they need a guideline

[coral anvil]

Session's over, i've said that i'd not be coming back, it was actively unpleasent. Like that was a minor thing in a very disorganized game

gm was doing their best but there was anotehr player who was being actively unpleasent, and the gm was just struggling like crazy

[clever cobalt]

Was this the game you were having issues with previously, or a different one?

[coral anvil]

Didnt have issues with things previously - that was an intro adventure, and that was purely just hitting some mechincal issues with swashbuckler/gynmanst

So not actually what i'd think of as isuses just like teething problems with getting to grips with the system

if that makes sense?

[clever cobalt]

So it's not the game you had issues with before here

Or at least talked about here before

Was this a game you recently joined?

Apologies for the questions, just getting a feel

Regardless, yeah it sucks

[coral anvil]

Yeah, it was one i'd just joined

It's all good, sorry for slow reply

i got distracted and was looking elsewhere

[coral anvil]

Yeah, the one i talked about before was jsut the begginer box adventure, playing a Gynmast Swashbuckler, and it was fine. issues were purely mechincal issues with mangaing MAP and Gnymanst being a bit awkard

That game has been a blast, just sad it's ending

[frank crystal]

What do undead characters drink instead of health potions?

[barren cipher]

they pour oil of unlife on themselves

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[heavy fulcrum]

death potions

[eager mountain]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mBdAfqUqtrk

Holy fuck it applies to damage too !?

and your recovery roll ?

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[frank crystal]

I always ran extra damage as increasing your dying score

[eager mountain]

oh I thought it meant that if your wounded it adds to all damage you take

[frank crystal]

Oh

[charred patrol]

whether or not it worked like that in the past has been an arena of heated debate

[frank crystal]

Yah I never realized that part

[silver geyser]

I'm just gonna ignore all of that.

That's too dangerous.

[turbid dagger]

Yeah
Last kingmaker session our Gnome Psychic would have straight died to a random goon if we were using those rules

Then again that random goon was Nishkiv The Knife, Ascended Cuthroat, who through the throes of violence awakened and realized he was a character in a game
Until we stopped inexplicably missing him and killed him with a crit, anyway

[turbid dagger]

So how uh, for lack of a better word, valuable would you say low to trivial level encounters are
Like, I've been designing mostly moderate or severe encounters, should I be putting lows in there

[unborn rain]

I've never ran a trivial encounter because I literally cannot imagine them being at all interesting

[solar storm]

They don't take very long at least

[unborn rain]

For low encounters I generally combine them with some kind of map thing, eg they're in a tower or across a river, which makes them interesting

[sour venture]

idk if anyone is interested in this kind of stuff, but as I'm joining a PF2e game, I ended up making a custom character sheet (I find the default one limited for online play, and I wanted to have a sheet hosted away from sites like myth weavers or pathbuilder or foundry due to access jank and more customization)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KsohAOkRoj2nIKvzetqSUKNLxHgV2ePon_uikcWimb4/edit

All that remains is to add in a formatted section for pet/companion stats, but for all other functions, it's ready to be copied to your own drive and filled

[clever cobalt]

Wonder how well a Greatpick would work on a Barrow's Edge Exemplar

For reference

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=23

[frank crystal]

I mean with a fatal D12, if you get that crit

You will heal so much HP

[clever cobalt]

Yep

That's the ide

Also you can just swap to this to heal even more. Then back to the Greatpick

Which, I'm also curious how this works outside of combat

Can I basically just keep using this outside of combat to heal.myself to full between encounters

[frank crystal]

I mean I don’t see why you couldn’t

[sinful gyro]

Probably yeah, but there's several things that let you do that

[frank crystal]

It’s not like you need something to target with an attack to swap back to body

[clever cobalt]

True

[sinful gyro]

Also only works on you

[clever cobalt]

Thoigh this doesn't require rolls or resources

[frank crystal]

Also yah at this point OOC healing is so plentiful this really isn’t that much

[clever cobalt]

True

[sinful gyro]

Neither do focus spells cos you can wait 10 mins

[clever cobalt]

Also true

[frank crystal]

Or kineticists

[sinful gyro]

I'm just picturing it as healt regen in cod thou

[clever cobalt]

Roughly yeah lol

[frank crystal]

That’s for if you go gun exemplar

[clever cobalt]

Air Guns are actually good on Exemplar, or so I've heard

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=188

They're simple so they become d6

And 1-handed as well

So you can dual wield

[frank crystal]

Yah I wanna make a dual air pistol build so bad

Especially since you can also give them twin

And exemplars shine in flat damage increases already

[clever cobalt]

Gun God time

And yeah

Throwing Knife Exemplar also look fun

For similar reasons

[frank crystal]

Honestly my main issue with dual air gun exemplar is that I’m not sure Fated Shot works that well for it

Because it basically just gives you an AOE strike for 2 actions

But like, the air guns strikes still don’t do that much damage

[clever cobalt]

I wonder if the "final" Exemplar will have a Firearm option

I know it'll have an unarmed option

Behold, a holy weapon! (M2 Browning)

I have been thinking from a lore perspective; do you think Exemplars just exist on Golarion in the God War, or will they exist across the universe?

[frank crystal]

I hope so tbh

[clever cobalt]

Same

Regardless of which youre replying too :v

[frank crystal]

I mean, do the gods like only govern Golarion or the rest of the galaxy?

[clever cobalt]

Don't believe so

[frank crystal]

Firearm exemplar

[clever cobalt]

Other species have different gods (like the Vesk have a patron god) but some are universal iirc, like Pharasma

[frank crystal]

Ah alright

I guess it depends what god dies

Because presumably if one of the more universal ones die

Then the divine sparks would show up all over the place

[clever cobalt]

Also I'm pretty sure every planet in Golarion's Solar System is inhabited

So it could be a scale of things issues yeah

[surreal basin]

Ngl I mostly run them as occasional flavor fights if at all

[clever cobalt]

Trivial Encounters can also make the party feel strong if you do it right

Which can feel good

[clever cobalt]

Regardless, my idea was one landing on Earth (which is in the 20s or 30s iirc, if the timeline matches up)

Either they go to Golarion to figure out what's happening, they're taken to Golaroon forcibly, or they stay on Earth and shenanigans ensue

[frank crystal]

Oh that would be very funny

[clever cobalt]

Also a good way to get the Dark Tapestry involved since Earth is drowning in that stuff

[surreal basin]

The gods do hang out in the rest of the galaxy yeah

[frank crystal]

I kinda imagine they’re like, a WW1 vet

Who takes to golarion’s air guns as the closest things to the guns back home

Or they straight up use a 1911

[clever cobalt]

Earth is similar to Alkenstar

No magic so they just make really good tech

[frank crystal]

Yah

[clever cobalt]

Though Earth has been at it longer so uh, much scarier technology for the most part

[frank crystal]

Except when there is magic but that’s like, some rare stuff in earth

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

And either hidden and small, or eldritch in nature

Cthulhu still slumbers there

Like, canonically

[frank crystal]

I don’t think Alkenstar has invented a machine gun quite yet

[frank crystal]

He’s just chilling

He ain’t bothering anyone

Let him be

[clever cobalt]

But yeah

Iirc one of the reasons the Russians in Reign of Winter were relevetivly high level despite lacking magic (for the most part) was because earth guns/technology is just that good

Alkenstar has like rennisance/early industrial firearms, while Earth is rapidly approaching WW2 era guns