But I expect Double Edge/Body Slam, maybe a tech-facade? to be the options
#POKÉMON CENTER
arctic dagger
languid lichen
as a mega it doesn't get a flame orb, so i don't see it running facade unless it's like
STAB/STAB/facade/ddance
or some wack tech into the specific meta
arctic dagger
I mean, Facade is stab, but yeah
languid lichen
sorry, i assumed i wasn't going to get genied and didn't need to specify good STAB when i said that
arctic dagger
I can't see them skipping Aqua jet is the main thought.
languid lichen
if you're running other speed control, you can give up aqua jet and just accept that it's here to one-shot everything that breathes
85/125 physbulk isn't astounding in the current era, but on water/dragon typing it's far from bad
arctic dagger
Yeah could be a meta call depending on what is going on
IDK i just saw Facade and was trying to think of when I'd use it, because it's a move that's good and sees usage
It wasn't arguing for standard usage
pliant violet
facade is definitely one that sneaks up on ya
arctic dagger
Like sometimes the meta is just full of shit that inflicts status and Facade is good
XD
languid lichen
and raging bolt is, aiui, one of the current tyrants of vgc
arctic dagger
Yeah but it's also hitting you with priority a lot of the time
So the speed difference doesn't SUPER matter
languid lichen
thunderclap is a sucker punch and it's not clearing that motherfucker
so you can force it out if your other slot does shit
which is the real utility
arctic dagger
My first thought is Flip Turn/Body Slam/Aqua Jet/Liquidate
languid lichen
it's not faster so it can never threaten a meteor
languid lichen
probably the smarter option
arctic dagger
I'd also think of like, just a wallbreaker set that goes Swords Dance/Aqua Jet/Double Edge/Coverage
arctic dagger
EQ maybe?
languid lichen
i've only seen meganium and this feraligatr one talked about
arctic dagger
This was posted a bit back
pliant violet
this was in the trailer too
confirmation on seribii that not all pokemon will be in champions https://www.serebii.net/pokemonchampions/pokemon.shtml
arctic dagger
Yeah but that could also just mean they're not going to bother putting Bulbasaur in
When they've got Venusaur
pliant violet
fair point
arctic dagger
Pikachu is the only confirmed non-final evolution atm
And y'know, Light Ball exists so
I can see some justification there
pliant violet
so does eviolite
arctic dagger
Yeah. It'll be interesting if they don't include Chansey for instance
pliant violet
and porygon 2 is always interesting
arctic dagger
But like, Emolga is confirmed in
So they're clearly not choosing based on power
XD
Interestingly Emolga is currently national dex IIRC
Was it in ZA?
Ah, yes it is.
pliant violet
porygon is not just strong is fills it's niche in a relatively unique way
languid lichen
i love dusclops and dusknoir, yes
can you look me in the eye and tell me they're not the most dogshit mon to ever grace this green earth?
languid lichen
. . . that's on me, i set the bar too low
arctic dagger
And all the way up in UU in gen5
And Dusknoir was OU in DP before sleep was banned
But yeah, IDK, it's bad.
But it being bad is part of the charm IMO
I like having to figure out how to make siht like Pain Split work as your recovery
Pokemon with lacking parts of their role but strong in other ways to make up for it are interesting
languid lichen
i actually do love their low hp + high defenses + pain split setup
i just wish that their defenses were even higher to compensate
because they're not enough for the...i want to say 40 and 45? base hp
pex as the modern rendition of that statline is...52/152/142?
ah, close, 50/152/142
pliant violet
hp is more important than folks give credit
languid lichen
dusclops and dusknoir, meanwhile, are 40/130/130 and 45/135/135
they'd need like +30 to both to be competitive with pex
+35? i dunno the math lmao
A Bunch
arctic dagger
On the other hand
Maybe Pex was just too pushed
Shakes fist Damn power creeped modern pokemon and their crazy stats.
I'm going to go back to my old balanced pokemon, like Ho-Oh. Perfectly balanced.
languid lichen
and zam
arctic dagger
Zamazenta is one of the newfangled things that need to get off my lawn, smh
languid lichen
with its extremely reasonable and unoptimized 135 spatk + 130 (also 135?) speed
zam not zama
arctic dagger
...Alakazam?
languid lichen
it's really funny how mediocre zamazenta is next to zacian
languid lichen
...Alakazam?
yuh
languid lichen
ik it's 135 spatk, idr whether it's 130 or 135 spe
and then gen 3 gave it magic guard
arctic dagger
120 speed
arctic dagger
Yeah
languid lichen
huh, off by a lot
and i think megazam is like, 140 or 150, so i wasn't thinking of that
hm
dunno what i was
languid lichen
normal numbers
but nothing will compare to gen 6 mgar and mkanga
me when i fucking levitate at you
rat bastard creature
it's so fucking funny that its mega got levitate banned off of gengar
pliant violet
it's really funny how mediocre zamazenta is next to zacian
Zama is the much better one now?
languid lichen
this bitch got legs, he's standing still, it's cursed body time
arctic dagger
Megakazam is still top 4 speed ever I think?
languid lichen
nah
pliant violet
zacian got nerfed, zama got that fighting type move that keys off defence
arctic dagger
Regieleki, Speed-deoxys, and ninjask, and then like 50 things at 150
Oh, who am I missing?
languid lichen
behind deos (180), ninjask (160), pheromosa (151), and regieleki (200)
pliant violet
zacian got nerfed, zama got that fighting type move that keys off defence
body press did a lot for it
arctic dagger
Body Press is a sick move.
languid lichen
and i'm a huge fan of nihilego
arctic dagger
One of those things where you're just like, "Damn that's cool"
languid lichen
for sure
pliant violet
I'm actually super into body press for giving "defensive" teams a way to end the game
languid lichen
it's super fun move design
and i love that it's fighting type
because there are a few fighting types that can exploit it
but a vast majority of its best abusers get it as a non-STAB move
pliant violet
interesting in tera formats
pliant violet
and zama getting double stab on it
languid lichen
and those two are huge exploiters of it
pliant violet
zacian actually kinda ass now
comparatively of course
opportunity cost of running it etc
timber vale
it's really funny how mediocre zamazenta is next to zacian
Iirc it's actually about as viable now in gen 9?
languid lichen
i was mostly thinking of the fact that zama's down in OU
but the crowned forms are a bigger deal
and I'm sure it's scarier in vgc
timber vale
Iirc zama is more used in VGC
timber vale
Due to being able to tank and threaten damage with body press iron defense
Or something like that
karmic imp
Oh she has a tattoo on her belly
manic kindle
I need to know if Mega Meg's new ability interacts with existing weather effects so i can cook this meg/archaludon team concept
arctic dagger
We're just gonna have to test it when it comes out I expect
manic kindle
If solarbeam does regular damage we're cooking
If its halved in rain im not cooking
arctic dagger
I expect it's always 1/turn and then normal effects from the field still apply.
manic kindle
I wouldn't be surprised by that but im willing to bet on an edge case here
arctic dagger
My expectation is it's just the synthesis/morning sun/moonlight changes, solar beam not needing the charge, weather ball will always be fire type, and growth will do 2 stages.
manic kindle
Ye i just need to know how it all interacts with Rain being on the field
I think it makes for a neat gamestate
languid lichen
i hope they give meg solar blade eventually
it would be useless for the mega
but it's a neat one
azure crane
Ye i just need to know how it all interacts with Rain being on the field
Didn't the video show it charging sunnily in rain?
manic kindle
ye but i need the damage calcs / if the moves are affected by the Rain status insofar as heal % / damage values
since normally solarbeam does 1/2 damage in rain
but if mega meg's solarbeam still does regular damage then she's got a brand new home on rain teams
arctic dagger
Yeah, having a strong grass mon on rain teams would be really interesting tbh
Although isn't like, Ogerpon n' Ludicolo stuff already pretty decent in those?
manic kindle
I just like meganium more than them
languid lichen
ogerpon seems like kinda a waste to run on rain teams, but rain tech outside of the most generic swift swim bullshit never clicked for me
manic kindle
A theoretical unaffected Weather Ball rules here
arctic dagger
I think atm rain teams are less all in on rain usually these days
Usually only like 3 pokemon that really benefit from it
And then more that counter its counters or don't mind
manic kindle
But also specifically archaludon and megs have really nice synergy
arctic dagger
Yeah but Arch went to ubers
manic kindle
I only vgc
arctic dagger
Ah fair.
I have no idea what rain teams look like in vgc
In singles they look like Pelipper + Barraskewda + stuff, something like Arch or HisGoomy to be a good switch in
azure crane
I hope you mean Goodra.
arctic dagger
XD
manic kindle
https://pokepast.es/d8321ee895c37280 heres a fair example of a vgc rain team
languid lichen
oh huh, legends are allowed in the current vgc reg?
manic kindle
Ye
pliant violet
Tragically
pliant violet
Wolfy played Pokémon champions early
Tutorials give decent amount of vp
Oh cool when you recruit a Pokémon it will come with 2 stats already maxed
holy shit IVs are dead
pp changes
languid lichen
huh, no IVs?
are they just treated as 31 across the board?
or like, 0 across the board lmao
is there anything interesting with the pp changes?
pliant violet
or like, 0 across the board lmao
unsure
languid lichen
languid lichen
protect at 8 is going to feel odd
pliant violet
8 max, as in after increasing it
also the game footage looks pretty nice, visually
languid lichen
yh i assumed, 8 as in 5
languid lichen
also the game footage looks pretty nice, visually
too bad it uses modern pokemon 3d models
and not like
battle revolution's
which had some fun character to em
pliant violet
oh the stats when the stages change now show the multipliers, nice
I like a lot of the modern models, especially since like legends arceus
oh stat drops may have changed how they work? or it might be just a visual display thing
.7 vs .66
for one stage down
lots of nice qol stuff it seems
pliant violet
no that's the thing
wolfy wasn't sure if it is or that was just a display thing
he only got to play for like 45 minutes
languid lichen
ah
deft path
oh stat drops may have changed how they work? or it might be just a visual displ...
it might round to nearest whole on display
arctic dagger
That seems more likely to me
near flower
i just carried him and checked my suitcase (bought some colognes so had to have it checked)
pliant violet
it might round to nearest whole on display
That was my assumption and wolfy’s in his video
arctic dagger
Mega Dragonite multiscale, Mega Froslass Snow Warning confirmed
soft isleBOT
Mega Froslass sounds like it’s going to be a terror
That’s about the best ability they could’ve given it
arctic dagger
Gengar is losing Encore so it can't have Mega-Gengar with Encore.
Which is good lmao
Mega evolution happens at the same time as Tera in the turn order, so mega effects happen and THEN switch effects happen
This makes weather setting megas worse(Opponent can both use a terrain ability or a switch ability to change weather after the ability setting the weather), and also some niche interactions with stuff like Clear Body Metagross /Scrappy Kang worse, since you can actually switch in an intimidation if they're mega evolving
Also a buff to Mega Lopunny technically for opposite reasons?
Incineroar losing knockoff????
manic kindle
incineroar losing knockoff right when mega meta is back is so funny
throat chop is back on the menu boiz
arctic dagger
Note: These are all from demo/beta/early/sneak peak(Whatever you want to call them) versions of champions, so obz they could be different in the release.
Mega Frosslass having Aurora Veil is a pretty strong upgrade over A-Ninetails.
But with A-Ninetails still an option if you don't want to use your mega
Multiscale on M-Dragonite is a little disappointing to me, it's fine but just not super interesting
@pliant violet They've confirmed lack of not fully evolved pokemon on release
No Porygon2, Electabuzz, Magmar, Chansey I guess
But they also confirmed Pikachu? So IDK
Maybe they'll include the ones known to be used competitively but just not most of them?
peak island
Kinda wish they could have the time to have a new game with the full modern national Pokedex included
manic kindle
Thats soooo many pokemon
arctic dagger
I'm kinda not a fan of national Dex stuff for general formats. It's just too much stuff.
More restricted formats create more interesting decision sets
peak island
True
I like to have more personal freedom though
And the assurance that all my favorites will be there
arctic dagger
I like that for the like, main games
But not for competitive formats
I think it's important to have lots of options for like, the "Pokemon Journey" vibe
peak island
Yea
It would be insane if there was a game compiled of several regions
Kinda like taking it a bit further than Gen 2 where you can get badges from other regions too
Except, you know, not just being Kanto again
Btw, it just me, or does Sinnoh feel like the most desolate region?
I just remember when I was playing Platinum as a kid, I just felt a profound loneliness in Sinnoh compared to any of the other regions
arctic dagger
Hmmm.
I don't think I did
But I haven't played Platinum in AGES
And the remakes are just. Worse than Platinum, amazingly lmao
I think BDSP are the only remakes worse than the originals so far?
vernal rapids
Gen 2 paid quite a big cost to get kanto into the game (mostly in terms of the game curve being real weird once you get there) and I don't think a game where you just play three or four pokemon games in a row could stick being interesting the whole way through
peak island
I also remember asking myself "where even am I" several times in Platinum
arctic dagger
Was Platinum a game you played while pretty young?
peak island
Yea
vernal rapids
but if it was like, a game designed as "you go between two geographic regions and half the game each is in there, but the normal length of a pokemon game" that could be neat
arctic dagger
By the time Platinum came out I was in my mid teens so
peak island
My first was Emerald
peak island
But Platinum was the first game I 100%ed
arctic dagger
I think it could just have been an age thing maybe?
Maybe you were too young to pick up on some stuff in Emerald, and then not old enough to clear Platinum with ease but old enough to pick up on some of the darker stuff?
IDK
peak island
Looking back in Emerald, Hoenn was very much wild, but also very lively
And there's much more of a sense of connection to nature there
Meanwhile in Sinnoh there's a very stark divide between populated areas and the routes between, and even the people in the more populated areas feel divided as well
arctic dagger
Yeah the theme of Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald was definitely very nature-based, as where Team Galactic was very... Industrial/exploitation in its themes?
IIRC?
peak island
I think the best showcase of that is also Cyrus, specifically how he was somehow even more isolated in an already divided and individualistic region to the point he ended up becoming overly cynical
arctic dagger
Like I said it has been a long time
peak island
Yeah the theme of Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald was definitely very nature-based, as whe...
Yea
At the same time, I feel like it works for places like Eterna Forest where it feels like you're stepping into almost a completely different world
Same thing with Spear Pillar, or at its most extreme with The Hall of Origin
maiden imp
the mountain range spear pillar's on in particular literally dividing the region in two
peak island
Or the Distortion World
maiden imp
and how far from anything else the northernmost town feels
peak island
Yea
maiden imp
I remember being spooked when I found turnback cave through an opening in the forest that was not there before
peak island
Pff
maiden imp
it really is just set up like a creepypasta bit
peak island
I kinda feel like you don't really get that as much in Platinum where you come out of the Distortion World through the Sendoff Spring
arctic dagger
In fanfic Sinnoh is very often like, "The most evil land" kind of deal too
peak island
I wouldn't call Sinnoh evil, more just indifferent
arctic dagger
Yeah I wouldn't call it evil either
But that's what ends up in fanfic I think
Or at least in my experience
I think in large part because Giratina is kind of the devil
peak island
Sinnoh feels coldly indifferent however
arctic dagger
And so because Giratina is from Sinnoh, it's like... Where the devil is from
peak island
Yeah, and if I remember correctly, Giratina also kills Cyrus off-screen
Also jfc, Cyrus feels like he's written like a SMT character
arctic dagger
Shin Megami Tensei?
peak island
Yeah
arctic dagger
I'll take your word for it, I've never played them
peak island
Basically with how overly cynical and subtly egotistical he is
Thinking of himself as a pragmatist
Basically he just wants to remove anything he doesn't understand, that being life and any reason for it to exist
Doesn't understand = doesn't need in his opinion
languid lichen
Mega Frosslass having Aurora Veil is a pretty strong upgrade over A-Ninetails.
lack of light clay means never a strict upgrade
and fairy stab is also relevant, albeit less so
pliant violet
I'm hoping for champion's first format that it'll be a national dex, no legends no paradox no ub, type format
we know the first format will allow at least mega, and I'm assuming only mega in the competitive format
wispy yarrow
no way they do no legends, I think
pliant violet
it's been done before, and we've yet to see any legendary pokemon in anything I've seen
even if they're in the game but not comp legal for the first format that's fine
languid lichen
considering zygarde, i'm not confident they do no legends
but speaking of, i really want to know what the fuck they're going to do with nihil light lol
pliant violet
serebii has collated a list of all revealed pokemon, I think including stuff not seen in official previews
pliant violet
dragon claw is now a slicing move
arctic dagger
Oh shit, that's awesome.
wispy yarrow
ayyyy
pliant violet
only pokemon that gets shadow claw and sharpness is gallade
wispy yarrow
we love absol
arctic dagger
That's cool.
A super powerful offensive Magic Bounce hasn't really happened yet right?
languid lichen
A super powerful offensive Magic Bounce hasn't really happened yet right?
mega diancie
arctic dagger
Oh yeah, that's technically a pokemon.
languid lichen
espeon, if you stretch "super powerful" back into older gens
mega absol was pretty good
not as good as mega diancie, but good
pliant violet
I really wanna see what they do with mega golisopod because I will absolutely build around that bastard if at all possible
pliant violet
less useful since he's not auto retreating but also good
I'm hoping for something like water bubble or steelworker but for water
pliant violet
I hope champions has a function that makes it easy to track winning teams and Pokémon
arctic dagger
Data = Good
arctic dagger
As a fellow fan of Porygon, I agree.
pliant violet
Bad news about porygon
arctic dagger
Yeah I know lmao
pliant violet
For now at least
Porygon z was something I was considering myself for a trick room setter
pliant violet
what I most urgently want to know is mega golisopod
arctic dagger
I'm not planning on doing any planning until we know the full roster/format/etc anyway so
I'm just enjoying the reveals as they happen
pliant violet
you are of stronger will than me
it doesn't help that I know some of my faves are definitely in
pliant violet
I forgot how good farigiraf is
pliant violet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7QEOWSk92E champions tournament for the end of april
since posting prize pool has risen to at least 10k
pliant violet
also scraw's series on how to prepare for champions is really good for folks getting into competitive battling (me)
manic kindle
Pokopia is really fun, and also im worried about how lost in the sauce im going to be with its intricacies
quaint hollow
I have made a warehouse to store my items in pokopia
obtuse ravine
😌
quaint hollow
I think the only thing i may do later is get colored bricks to add texture
My minecraft abilities are finally carrying over
sullen mesa
wow
pliant violet
so people who know these things better than me, I get that a fire grass water core is good, and a fairy steel dragon core is good, can you make a team with both?
wild prairie
so people who know these things better than me, I get that a fire grass water co...
Heatran Hydrapple Primarina or some other dual type combos would do that, but it would probably be better to pick one type trio and build around it
pliant violet
oh I didn't mean necessarily in the same pokemon
though I am considering those last two intently
wild prairie
oh I didn't mean necessarily in the same pokemon
Oh then yeah it's pretty doable. In NatDex you could run something like TTar Garchomp Ferrothorn Enamorus-Therian Heatran Toxapex for an alright semi-stall sand team, but it would become a bit weak to Earthquake if the Enamorus went down
Actually that comp also has no hazard removal. Might not be super viable
pliant violet
dw, vgc
manic kindle
so people who know these things better than me, I get that a fire grass water co...
You can for vgc but you tend to not have "space" to account for all the other variables you need for one core and its function
azure crane
pliant violet
potential leaks have mega golisopod getting tough claws which, imo, makes it super viable
languid lichen
jeez
that's so many tough claws megas
metagross, aerodactyl, golisopod, maybe barbaracle
pliant violet
it's 3 currently, you got one of the charizards
tied with magic bounce for most megas
liquidation, iron head, leech life, protect, perfectly spooky doubles set
to be clear, unverifiable leaks of questionable reliability
pliant violet
from that leak? one sec
languid lichen
i'll be crushed if mega eelektross actually does have levitate
oh right!
snow warning!
pliant violet
mega dragonite gets multiscale
which is really strong, despite already having it
being able to have inner focus to block intim, then mega to multiscale, is kinda nutty
languid lichen
it's boring, though, like my opinions on the rest of mega dnite
which is unfortunate, because that's also broadly my opinion on base dnite
pliant violet
I think it was not boring in scarlet and violet
but otherwise agree
still think it's very powerful combo of ability and mega
languid lichen
yeah
pliant violet
for similar reason to weather setting on mega being powerful
I'm predicting weather to be quite powerful early in champions, a very cowardly take
languid lichen
for similar reason to weather setting on mega being powerful
...are there any of those?
it's just the two mons that already had weather setting
pre-mega
pliant violet
mega charizard?
languid lichen
base zard doesn't have drought tho
pliant violet
notably really strong mega?
languid lichen
that's zardy
pliant violet
ye?
languid lichen
i'm confused by the point then
weather setting is good because weather setting is good, yeah
were you not talking about the theoretical "mon that sets weather in base and then has a different ability mega"?
pliant violet
I'm saying setting weather on mega is strong, like getting to switch off inner focus when mega, because it triggers after other abilities, like triggering weather or intimidate
languid lichen
ah
pliant violet
they are similar in that they beat things by triggering at a later stage
god I hope kyogre and groudon stay out of the game for a long time
languid lichen
yeah, pdon and pogre would be pretty lame
pliant violet
they are boring and deeply shape any meta game they're in
I'm predicting zardy and frosslass teams to be good in early champions, possibly some of the other unannounced ability megas too
oh and kang
languid lichen
i think kanga, gengar, and mence being very good megas is a pretty easy prediction to make
pliant violet
(if mega absol z gets sharpness it's over for all of us)
languid lichen
lmao
pliant violet
i think kanga, gengar, and mence being very good megas is a pretty easy predicti...
gengar lost encore thank god, also thank god incin lost knock off
languid lichen
the fact that all the Zs have 151 speed
pliant violet
mega genga had to not have encore
languid lichen
absol z gets 75 speed from its stone
it also looks pretty cool ngl
this shit appeals to the twelve-year-old that i have never stopped being
pliant violet
yeah no this rips
and dark ghost is a good typing
turns out fakeout immunity is worthwhile
despite having 151 speed mega absol is the only z mega I think will be/might be good
languid lichen
yeah
chomp's all went to spatk for no reason
and it even lost def
unless it gets like
tinted lens or contrary draco meteor
i cannot see it being even reasonably playable
pliant violet
mega chomp will be bad, like the other one, but chomp will be good
languid lichen
yeah
mega lucario i think might be pretty good as long as it doesn't have a bad new ability
pliant violet
isn't it also special focussed? how's lucario special movepool
languid lichen
if it has adaptability it's still a 165 spatk focus miss nasty plotter with decent ally support status moves
languid lichen
isn't it also special focussed? how's lucario special movepool
decent stab (focus miss flash cannon aura sphere vacuum wave), sball psychic plot
both dpulses but those aren't relevant super often
pliant violet
oh I could do a double mega team with both kang and golisopod and just use kang as a fake out pivot piece when golisopod mega is good...
pliant violet
decent stab (focus miss flash cannon aura sphere vacuum wave), sball psychic plo...
snarl?
languid lichen
don't think so
pliant violet
tragic but otherwise good
pliant violet
wide is the better one but quick is nothing to sneeze at
especially if mega dnite is good
languid lichen
ah damn, just checked, no wide
just quick
i cannot imagine it caring about helping hand lmao
languid lichen
would coaching fit on it?
pliant violet
depends how supporting you're building it
pliant violet
protect stab stab coaching
languid lichen
focus blast off the 10000000 base spatk, QG ?? coaching?
pliant violet
I think it also depends what you're pairing it with and also what they give for the ability
if it's on a team with a lot of secondary physical threats that appreciate the boost, can't see why you wouldn't
languid lichen
i really hope they give the Zs good abilities
and they don't just exist to aura farm and be bad
pliant violet
idc about the z's give golisopod not a bad ability and they have my fealty
a pokemon that is already really close to good, even with a negative ability
pliant violet
it's got good stats, as good typings as bug can have, good movepool
languid lichen
bug/water is a great type combo tbh, not just for a bug
it and bug/steel are real good
pliant violet
bug steel is even better imo
if it gets water bubble, it shouldn't, it's the meta game
languid lichen
bug/steel is better but fight + ground resist is always great to have, and the rest of what it offers (no fire weak, water resist) is v relevant
pliant violet
even giving it tough claws is nerve wrackingly good
languid lichen
i hope they give goli lunge
pliant violet
oh that'd be nice, though I think tough claws leech life means mega goli can brawl for a long time
remember that leech life is 80bp now
pliant violet
I'm down for good bug moves
languid lichen
in gen 7 when i was really active on smogon, i would play a lot of AAA
and run triage golisopod
horrifying nightmare creature
wispy yarrow
absol my beloved
pliant violet
it might even be good
if it gets sharpness I think it's undeniably good
now that claw moves are slicing moves
languid lichen
tbh it wouldn't even need the claw thing
it could just coast off sharpness night slash leaf blade
pliant violet
needs it to have good ghost stab
but sure, ghost is a more defensive value type
ghost dark is prankster and fake out immune, truly ominous
languid lichen
prank immune fake out immune and newly re-relevant, mega lucario vacuum wave immune
languid lichen
also arceus espeed immune, in formats with that
pliant violet
I mean, mega dragonite
languid lichen
too frail to box a multiscale dnite, idt you're keeping it in on that anyway
pliant violet
I'm growing more and more convinced it's a moral good for me to be running trick room
pliant violet
huh, good to know
pliant violet
not that 124 attack is bad
languid lichen
not at all
but i think if you're banking on uninvested espeed for your team, you're prob better off either banded or ddance espeed with investment instead
pliant violet
also I just think low power formats are neat
languid lichen
oh, how down or not are doubles formats on Choice?
pliant violet
if mega frosslass is good I might sadly have to drop the hydrapple idea, but a sneasler dragapult mega kang core seems spooky
pliant violet
oh, how down or not are doubles formats on Choice?
like are choice items good in doubles? generally
languid lichen
yeah
pliant violet
since you've got twice as many options at any one time for solving an option in vgc, since two pokemon out, the getting stuck on one move isn't necessarily too bad
languid lichen
I wanna know what they do for mega floette
pliant violet
life orb is much more popular iirc but also item clause exists
languid lichen
neat
languid lichen
malamar has gotta do something with confusion, right?
does it? its whole gimmick is Contrary
with superpower
and being upside-down
pliant violet
sure but thematics of it's mega are all about mind control
languid lichen
fair
pliant violet
and that's been sorta pushed into confusion sorta territory with pecharunt
languid lichen
true
pliant violet
a legendary that I think is neat
floette I have no idea about and am also somewhat annoyed it's in the game
porygon 2 isn't in the game
but the fuck ass genocide flower is?
languid lichen
...you mean literally the entire reason the game exists?
floette, the mon that the story revolves around
pliant violet
champions?
languid lichen
i think it's reasonable
pliant violet
z-a, sure
languid lichen
no, ZA, the game that's getting every mon put into champions because it's the newest
pliant violet
but I want my goddamn eviolite trickroom setter
languid lichen
bc that's just part of the series modus operandi
pliant violet
also I wanted an excuse to call it a genocide flower
near flower
'lend me your power mold breaker this is well-baked body we're up against'
earnest nacelle
Yeah and Fire/Fighting is already a really good offensive type
arctic dagger
all it really does is let it hit through flash fire
Even then pretty much everything with flash fire is already a fire type, so you're generally hitting at 1/2
Ok, there's one
Rolycoly, the 1st form of Coalossal, has Flash Fire and is just Rock Type
Centiskorch and Heatran are at least only normally effective so
I guess if those are a big concern it could matter
manic kindle
It does hit through Sturdy, but there's not a lot of relevant sturdy users in vgc i can think of
not sure about other formats
mega emboar is the ultimate well-baked body counter now...
languid lichen
not sure about other formats
sturdy is much more relevant in vgc than elsewhere
anything equivalent is going to be running a sash
for fast spikes/webs/etc.
manic kindle
Yeah but nothing good is vgc has sturdy
languid lichen
sorry right, theoretically sturdy is more relevant to vgc
nothing good in singles has sturdy either
except garganacl, and if you put sturdy on it you're getting beaten with hammers
pliant violet
There’s also the issue in vgc recently of the multihit bear
Which hurts sturdy viability
languid lichen
multihit bear is a demon everywhere
manic kindle
There’s also the issue in vgc recently of the multihit bear
The Demon...
round perch
timber vale
1st image is slightly suggestive sort of
runic umbra
RUN, YOU PIGEONS, IT'S ROBERT FROSMOTH
blissful needle
pliant violet
I’m da champion
azure crane
You can't forget that this has been updated. https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/afd/
pliant violet
April fools is over
arctic dagger
Eh, few hours left for me.
sudden spade
We are forever fools
pliant violet
Maybe you, I’m on an island drinking ginger beer
Notably, thinking too much about Pokemon
Thinking about how sneasler dragapult incin is nasty to pair with mega kang
manic kindle
That sounds fun
Im excited to cook w whatever rng gives me in Champions
Like a weird early challenge
pliant violet
Yeah that’s one of the things I’m interested to investigate
How easy it is to build a team in champions, not importing stuff
pliant violet
Yes but apparently 2 at max? And one will be a relevant stat for that mon? But that might be a small sample size thing
The adv of the sneasler dragapult incin with kang is that’s 3 fakeout threats, and a very capable way to cover ghosts
snow cobalt
Bluesky
trail bridge
oh god
the beedrill sprite is a gif of the bee movie 😭
Crawdaunt, Origin Dialga, Mega Dragonite (Deltarune Spoilers), and Flutter Mane
HEATRAN?????
pliant violet
What are these
trail bridge
various april fools sprites
trail bridge
You can't forget that this has been updated. https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sp...
from here
one more
pliant violet
Excellent
arctic dagger
Mega Excadrill has a new ability that lets it hit with moves through Protect
But only if they're contact, and do 1/4 damage
Mega Scovillain burns attackers? Apparently just flat out, not even requiring contact.
sudden spade
contact only + 1/4 damage feels...a bit overly careful with that ability.
Like I get why they're careful
arctic dagger
I think they DID NOT like how Urshifu worked out lmao
sudden spade
Yeah, 100%. As said, I get why. I just think they may have gone a hair too much the other way.
languid lichen
Mega Scovillain burns attackers? Apparently just flat out, not even requiring c...
ah, goodbye all physical mons
that's meaty
should help make up for the 65/65/65 defensive statline lol
or ig 65/85/85
arctic dagger
It has Rage Powder for doubles but
No recovery moves
So it's a pretty limited resource and your mega slot
It's certainly cool though
timber vale
contact only + 1/4 damage feels...a bit overly careful with that ability.
it's about the same as Z Moves through protect
...I think they could've gone for 1/2
manic kindle
But only if they're contact, and do 1/4 damage
Slightly Seen Fist
arctic dagger
Exactly lmao
Honestly seems worse than it keeping... Well, any of its normal abilities, honestly?
Mold Breaker on ground-stab is actually interesting because of levitate, sand rush and sand force both pretty decent in sand teams
manic kindle
I think itll have uses not as a "i mega immediately" but "i have put you in a situation where you die even with protect"
Plus m-exca has Beeg Attack so itll still sting
arctic dagger
Yeah, I just feel like I probably wouldn't choose it over other megas
When I evaluate a mega, I think of like, what it gives a team that I can't get elsewhere
Because you only get 1 mega slot, and that's pretty valuable
manic kindle
yeah
will need to play around with him cuz i do love him hes so goofy looking
but i think theres something fun in "will he give up sand rush to mega? should i hit protect? should i punish the speed difference if he megas?" etc
languid lichen
but i think theres something fun in "will he give up sand rush to mega? should i...
mega excadrill vs mega lucario/mence/diancie/aerodactyl/etc.
manic kindle
thank you kengan for this evergreen image
do we know what pyroar got
I want to know if i can attempt to use Mr Average Supreme
arctic dagger
Not yet
pliant violet
What’s the source for those abilities?
pliant violet
Mold Breaker on ground-stab is actually interesting because of levitate, sand ru...
Yes but I think hitting through protect, even at 1/4 is better for standalone strength, ya know what I mean? If you don’t wanna commit too much support
Problem there is that like, it’s your mega, you wanna support it
arctic dagger
Yeah.
Also the source was I saw some youtuber talking about it, I didn't see where they got it from, sorry.
pliant violet
I’ve found, of all things, vice talking about a leak
https://www.vice.com/en/article/pokemon-champions-mega-abilities-leak-reveals-overpowered-new-forms/
Mega lucario z getting prankster, mega Zeraora getting speed boost
There’s more on there
Oh scovillain and excadrill were from data mining home
arctic dagger
Ah yeah, that was it
arctic dagger
Mega Drampa got the theorized Drizzle
That's pretty neat
If Golisopod actually got Tough Claws that's nuts
pliant violet
I wonder if it triggers when you ko it
Because otherwise that’s very annoying for physical attackers
arctic dagger
...What does Prankster even do for Lucario-Z?
pliant violet
If Golisopod actually got Tough Claws that's nuts
Best pokemon in the game, especially since leech life is powerful now
arctic dagger
Extra 1.5x multiplier on fire moves for mega-pyroar is like... Pretty good?
Mega Staraptor Close Combat Contray is pretty funny.
pliant violet
Best pokemon in the game, especially since leech life is powerful now
Liquidation leech life iron head protect off of tough claws golisopod is a nasty set
pliant violet
Coaching too
Prankster Riolu with coaching is a thing that’s seen play in vgc
Can’t remember the rest of the set, put a sash on it, force the opponent to double in if they want a kill
Endeavour I think is one of the other moves
arctic dagger
Wait it doesn't seem to have taunt anymore?
I swear Lucario had taunt at one point
arctic dagger
NGL Sash Riolu probably does that better than Mega-Z
pliant violet
Might be weaker but it’s not taking your mega investment
arctic dagger
It's only 70-70-70 for defences
Even as a mega
And prankster on a 151 speed pokemon seems
Mostly a waste?
XD
pliant violet
We’ll see how accurate the leak is
arctic dagger
Yeah
I hope it's not
My first hope is for something like No Guard
Let Focus Blast be accurate dammit
arctic dagger
It feels like it would be tbh
languid lichen
...What does Prankster even do for Lucario-Z?
make it worse than regular mega lucario
comical waste of +61 speed otherwise
pliant violet
It’s fitting and good but my good, that thing will be a beast
azure crane
Scovillain doesn't get Synthesis?
pliant violet
Doesn’t it have chlorophyll as its hidden ability
manic kindle
less than a week before Champions time... im excited to do weird stuff
pliant violet
Me too murdoc
I’ve got my Wishlist for what I get but I’m also not super pushed about getting them
I think there’s a couple things I can build around, so if I pull any of them I’m happy
fickle thicket
My friend yesterday, "did you hear, they're going to make 10000 new Pokémon"
Turns out he'd had a dream
pliant violet
Yeah mega dnite getting multiscale means it can have inner focus and be immune to intimidate on start
And still benefit from multiscale
pliant violet
I’m really hoping frosslass isn’t good, mostly because I never like weather teams being good
manic kindle
At bare minimum being able to fire off huge Blizzards has historically been real nice
arctic dagger
Ghost/Ice is pretty good too
very little resists it
has to be dark or normal AND water/ice/steel/fire, so like. Kingambit and water/dark types?
Mega Gyarados, Sharpedo, Crawdaunt... His-Samurott and Greninja is probably the most common?
It's some pretty good pokemon, but like, not every team is gonna have someone who resists both stabs at all
languid lichen
froslass also has tbolt and thunder
which covers water if it's trying to do something other than set spikes
i think it's probably going to be like
manic kindle
Fake out immunity is hot
languid lichen
av/spikes/stab/stab though
alolan ninetales is already real nice for being a reasonably fast veil setter
froslass is immune to fake out, has ten more speed, gets spikes, and can threaten massive blizzards
instead of 81 spatk moonblasts
snow wren
arctic dagger
Intend your puns, coward
pliant violet
has to be dark or normal AND water/ice/steel/fire, so like. Kingambit and water...
Incin
umbral hound
It is weirdly rare for a pokemon to evolve into another mon where the evolution's name has fewer syllables than the basic form. The only examples I can think of are where they go 2 -> 3 -> 2 for full chains, like Squirtle-Wartortle-Blastoise or Slakoth-Vigoroth-Slaking. Any other counterexamples I'm forgetting?
Grimer to Muk, I guess.
languid lichen
It is weirdly rare for a pokemon to evolve into another mon where the evolution'...
tangela -> tangrowth
starly -> staravia -> staraptor
2 4 3
rookidee -> corvisquire -> corviknight (3 4 3)
budew roselia roserade, also 2 4 3
zigzagoon -> linoone
pawniard -> bisharp (broken by kingambit's introduction)
shinx -> luxio -> luxray is 1 3 2
geodude -> graveler -> golem (3 3 2)
i will stop after these last two, but
fuecoco -> crocalor -> skeledirge (4 3 3)
and cacnea -> cacturne (3 2)
umbral hound
okay fair
pliant violet
froslass is immune to fake out, has ten more speed, gets spikes, and can threate...
Spikes are a lot less common in doubles so I doubt it’ll be spikes for vgc
arctic dagger
I'd expect something like Blizzard/Shadow Ball/Tbolt/Nasty Plot
Or Protect instead of Nasty
pliant violet
Protect
Ye, stats are high enough to not nasty
And it doesn’t like incin which is incin
Luckily it lost knock off, though you cannot knock off a mega stone
Incin losing knock off doesn’t stop it being a monster, just less of one
languid lichen
I'd expect something like Blizzard/Shadow Ball/Tbolt/Nasty Plot
do you really think it'd go without aurora veil?
that seems like a really hard sell to me
pliant violet
I think you probably run it with a tails as a secondary weather setter who will carry veil
Veil definitely is the biggest advantage of setting snow
Well second biggest
Biggest is removing other weather
languid lichen
huh, why wouldn't froslass run its own av?
arctic dagger
Oh, yeah, you definitely Veil
IMO
Shrug Like I said though, there's few enough pokemon that ghost/ice doesn't cover
You might be good enough with just Ball/Blizzard/Veil/Protect or something
azure crane
fuecoco -> crocalor -> skeledirge (4 3 3)
Fuecoco is 3 syllables, right? I'm not tweaking?
wispy yarrow
If you're pronouncing it like it was japanese, fu - eh- co -co, it could be four
But the intent is pretty clearly "Fwe - co - co"
but in japanese it's also "Hogator"
Which is really funny when you think about encountering it somewhere like florida
wild prairie
Smoochum -> Jynx is 2 1
Happiny -> Chansey -> Blissey is 3 2 2
Pikachu -> Raichu 3 2
pliant violet
If folks are intending to play champions, what’re they keen to play?
arctic dagger
My first thought I've seen so far is trying to make like, Follow Me/Spicy Extract/Protect/Something Mega Scovillain work
But like I said, I'm trying not to think too hard still lmao
pliant violet
Evil
wild prairie
If folks are intending to play champions, what’re they keen to play?
Mega Alakazam Psyspam ideally
arctic dagger
Expanding Force/Psyshock/Dazzling/Protect for MegaZam I'd guess?
Oh huh it doesn't get expanding force
Wait yes it does
arctic dagger
OH, no it doesn't, it had it in gen8
But not in gen9
So who knows if it'll have it in champs but probably not?
Not having EForce will suck though for being a strong psychic pokemon in doubles these days
Sorry, I looked it up on the movelist for Alakazam, and it said it didn't have it, so I went and checked the move and it said Alakazam gets it, but then it was like *(NOT IN GEN 9)
XD
pliant violet
Yeah eforce is so strong for doubles
arctic dagger
Eforce + Dazzling is such a strong combo in general
pliant violet
Helps that psychic terrain is also just a solid terrain
arctic dagger
Truth.
pliant violet
The best eforce abusers could get greatly harmed by strong priority
arctic dagger
Yeah
Well, and sucker punch is one of the better priority moves too, that the psychic types would otherwise be VERY afraid of
That said psychic is otherwise pretty weak as a type right now tbh
So it probably needs psychic terrain
pliant violet
The best terrains are really so because of access to good moves
Grassy glide and eforce respectively
And that’s cause the terrain give priority and spread properties, two of the best traits moves can have
I’m probably gonna be building some sort of balanceish teams around either mega kang or mega golisopod
I could consider building hard trick room too
arctic dagger
I'm pretty new to doubles, my usual stuff is like, balance that's a bit heavier on the stall side like sandstorm setups
But I don't think that kind of stuff is very good in doubles
So I'm gonna have to figure out what I enjoy
arctic dagger
Mostly, yeah.
I ran Mega Slow a lot back in the day
Because it was one of the only ones that could slow things down
manic kindle
If folks are intending to play champions, what’re they keen to play?
I want to cook with mega meganium
manic kindle
Outside of that i kind of want to challenge myself to use "my first 6 pulls" only for a bit
pliant violet
Could be in your first 6, you do get to pick out of 10
pliant violet
Megaanium I think unfortunately remains outclassed but depending how ability works could be fun on a rain team
sudden spade
It's at least an interesting ability/setup.
And I'll take 'doing something fun' over 'Ability we've seen several times, good but uninspiring'
manic kindle
I need to test the numbers if its full powered solars in rain im cookingggg
pliant violet
And I'll take 'doing something fun' over 'Ability we've seen several times, good...
Ok but I will complete a ritual sacrifice to get mega golisopod one of those abilities
pliant violet
I need to test the numbers if its full powered solars in rain im cookingggg
Megaganium, the bridge, tandemaus, weather setter, weather setter
Swift swimmer
timber vale
Ok but I will complete a ritual sacrifice to get mega golisopod one of those abi...
I'm hoping for strong and fun
pliant violet
True, but I’m not picky
Mega golisopod could have literally no ability and its stats and typing would make it pretty good
timber vale
I'm hoping for strong *and* fun
Maybe absurd but I just feel like it would be a fairly interesting candidate for water bubble...
It losing the water type for steel... it's.. hrmm...
pliant violet
Water bubble, a water equivalent of steelworker for a lesser extent, tough claws which is the supposed one
Tough claws lets liquidation still hit v hard
umbral hound
Mega Tactics: Due to its keen tactical acumen, Mega Golisopod quickly escapes from danger, automatically switching out when reduced below half health.
sudden spade
Mega golisopod could have literally no ability and its stats and typing would ma...
Tactical Retreat
Sensing Danger, this pokemon switches out immediately.
Upgraded the ability
pliant violet
Boo
Wait can golisopod learn U-turn?
An ability that powers up pivot moves could be cool
Even if it does mostly nothing it’d be thematic and really useful when it comes up, give it u-turn and flip turn
sudden spade
Devs make a Very Silly Ability and give it:
Skirmisher
Moves that swap out the user gain +1 Priority.
😛
pliant violet
Honestly low priority switching is better on something so tanky
pliant violet
But also switching move that acts as a prio attack is also kinda sick nasty
It does learn u turn, only need to add flip turn to its list
manic kindle
i know it wouldnt be good for mega-goli but i do agree it would be super funny to give it the same ability for the third time
languid lichen
Tactical Retreat
The first time this Pokemon's HP falls to one-third or less, it engages in defensive maneuvers, curing itself of all non-volatile statuses, negating all further damage, and switching out.
languid lichen
💜
arctic dagger
I hope you meant to put "the first time" in there lmao
timber vale
no. immortal golisopod
languid lichen
I hope you meant to put "the first time" in there lmao
no, i want to let single-player full restore spammers have their fun
i did mean to only apply at 33% though
not every point of hp afterwards lmfao
arctic dagger
Well this is a Pokemon that gets leech life too
So they could go to 33%
Go up to 40% or something
languid lichen
it's also a base 40 speed mon that can't retaliate with a leech life when this happens
arctic dagger
Go back to 33%
languid lichen
because it gets donked out
arctic dagger
Trick room
languid lichen
so you need to find a place to weave that in
ah true
fair enough, i forgot trick room is the fun ruiner
languid lichen
oh yeah i like that
manic kindle
emergency exit + sturdy + natural cure
put me back in coach... for one last Impression...
languid lichen
``Tactical Retreat``
```The first time this Pokemon's HP falls to one-third or l...
SECOND IMPRESSION IS GO
manic kindle
lend me your strength shedinja this is full power emboar im up against
languid lichen
pfft
arctic dagger
Mega emboar: mold breaker
Us: what if we gave golosipod 3 abilities
languid lichen
i mean, i'd give emboar something juicer too
arctic dagger
True
languid lichen
specifically, i want to play with its fire-bolt spear
manic kindle
even if the ability isnt Meta Good i would like something more flavorful, like a spear flavor of long reach or w/e decidueye has
arctic dagger
Concept: fire type special moves use its physical attack
Like Zeus throwing lightning bolts
languid lichen
Imperial Arms
This Pokemon's recoil moves are empowered, and are always supereffective against Pokemon weak to the Electric type.
(empowered is just 20% like reckless, that's just how it's phrased)
arctic dagger
I think I'd just give it electric steelworker instead maybe
languid lichen
it gets Exactly Wild Charge and i think maybe tpunch
which wouldn't be super interesting
arctic dagger
That sounds pretty good to me
languid lichen
i guess this has the problem of making it basically unwallable, though
arctic dagger
Maybe rock head plus electricworker
languid lichen
needs to be like, poison/ghost/psychic and fire/dragon
so yeah, that's fair
electricworker rock head or reckless
arctic dagger
With electric worker I think it has to be exactly dragon and a fighting resist
To resist all 3 stab
languid lichen
or marowak
arctic dagger
Ah yeah
languid lichen
but yeah, that makes it a Reasonable List of uhh
latias, alolawak, mega altaria
outside of box legends and squishies
arctic dagger
Dragalge isn't super squishy I think
languid lichen
and emboar gets knock off and sucker punch for marowak and latias
ehhh
65/90
most of its bulk is on the special side with 123 spdef
mega dragalge only goes up to 65/105
languid lichen
dragalge's one of those ones that i wish got a third stage instead of a mega
with more hp and more def/spatk
languid lichen
yeah, i just wish it was like
+35 or so bst
524 at +30 or 529 at +35 is eminently reasonable
and that'd be like, +15 to 80 base hp, +10 to 107 base spatk, +10 to 100 base def, +5 to 128 base spdef
sudden spade
Vague Pondering: I'd love to see some 'designed primarily for support' pokemon with Prankster. A pokemon with something like Prankster and Floral Healing/Heal Pulse/Metal Sound etc, more than 'I am setting up status effects'. Not that status effects are bad but looking it over there's zero overlap between 'pokemon with healing moves that work on others, other than Wish' and 'pokemon with prankster'.
deft path
Fuecoco is 3 syllables, right? I'm not tweaking?
it is
its a good pun
fuego is of course fire in spanish, coco is coconut, this references how fuecoco is a flaming coconut shaped Thing that Eats everything
languid lichen
Vague Pondering: I'd love to see some 'designed primarily for support' pokemon w...
volbeat
tailwind + helping hand + screens
riolu could have a split evo that focuses on that as well
but riolu does it
with coaching + helping hand again
mostly coaching
near flower
I think I'd just give it electric steelworker instead maybe
could call it electrician
pliant violet
Concept: fire type special moves use its physical attack
This is scary
Fire type has some nasty special attacks
pliant violet
Vague Pondering: I'd love to see some 'designed primarily for support' pokemon w...
Grimsnarl sets screens as its first and largest priority
wild prairie
Concept: fire type special moves use its physical attack
Could make Overheat a bit wonky unless the ability specifically changes the move to have an atk drop instead of a spatk drop
arctic dagger
Probably you just cut overheat from the move pool
For anyone who gets that ability
pliant violet
They can and do just do that now and I’m for it
I like that they’re being a lot more specific about what gets what, and correcting stuff now
arctic dagger
Alternatively, I think you could just make it a signature move, since psyshock already exists too. But it's such a scary concept to have around I thought it eating the ability would be maybe more interesting too.
And there's no way to keep it as a move just on the mega
As where you can for the ability
pliant violet
I wonder if champions will get a pokemon before any game gets it, go got meltan for example
43 confirmed megas in champions, and that doesn’t include any z megas and is missing a few other megas that just haven’t been revealed to have their base form in the game
Game only has just over 100 confirmed pokemon
Lotsa megas relative
arctic dagger
I mean, that's what is gonna build the most hype probably
pliant violet
Probably doesn’t hurt
pliant violet
I’m a little sad kangaskhan is probably too fast for a trick room team, though I’m realising a trick room modes become iffy with mega golisopod since torkoal is a trick room menace
pliant violet
Just saw a video ranking what type has the best moves, not considering type chart or signature moves/moves with very low distribution
Any guesses for best
Also ranked physical special and status type moves, winning type had best physical and status
pliant violet
I have unfortunately ended up with the makings of two teams
timber vale
Just saw a video ranking what type has the best moves, not considering type char...
Bug for quiver dance maybe
wild prairie
Any guesses for best
If the type chart isn't being considered then it's probably Normal, right? Tons of high power, accurate moves plus utility like Helping Hand and Follow Me and Rapid Spin, plus Recover, Swords Dance, etc
pliant violet
Normal
pliant violet
Fake out and protect alone probably win those categories