i do NOT look like the reddit creature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#POKÉMON CENTER
pliant violet
reasonable
runic umbra
anyway, pokémon designs
pliant violet
his eyes keep looking at me
fickle thicket
if anorith worse shades would he wear them like this
runic umbra
(honestly the evolution looks kinda dopey, but I think it's in reference to some guy-in-a-suit kaiju?)
fickle thicket
or like this
fickle thicket
don't bully my son
I like anorith!
I also like the applin line (except the g-max)
runic umbra
I've yet to meet someone who prefers lileep
fickle thicket
I've yet to meet someone who prefers lileep
I also like lileep
pliant violet
I also like the applin line (except the g-max)
Hydrapple is so many friends
fickle thicket
Hydrapple is so many friends
its key art and idle animation really don't do it justice
(and honestly mainline 3d's sauceless idle animations is another topic I could get the fuck into)
(the animations in general)
(but instead I will drive home in my car)
soft isleBOT
Gen 9 has some of our favorite designs in it tbh. They knocked it out of the park with the Pokemon designs, even if the games aren’t necessarily the best showcase of those designs
runic umbra
I haven't played 9 but what I've seen didn't like bother me.
the hammer one seems a bit much but I like its energy
pliant violet
tinkaton is a certified gremlin
it launches itself into the sky to attack corviknight
it also has a 140 bp signature move that can only be used every second turn
runic umbra
favourites are difficult to pick for me.
as a kid I was all about Gengar. can't not love that shit eating grin.
Magnemite's also an old fave.
gen4 has a lot of designs I like, particularly Torterra and Bronzong.
they did my boy magnemite dirty with that third stage tho
pliant violet
world turtle
runic umbra
I like the storytelling in the evolutions of some gen1 and 2 critters.
soft isleBOT
no points for guessing the overall favorite pokemon of this system :P
gen 2 is our favorite with gen 3 just behind
pliant violet
I've got it narrowed down to top 3 regions but cannot pick beyond that especially
Sinnoh, Alola, Galar
soft isleBOT
my first ever shiny was a shinx and i don't care that it's not a good pokémon i loved her with all my heart
soft isleBOT
maya's first shiny was a haunter in crystal
obtuse ravine
then probably 5 after
soft isleBOT
what draws you to b+w dani
pliant violet
my first ever shiny was a shinx and i don't care that it's not a good pokémon i ...
Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best.
azure crane
"Edit: Thanks for the gold, everyone!"
obtuse ravine
what draws you to b+w dani
hmm
i think the feeling of scale and life in the world, the music, and spending 2 games worth of time/story in the region
the camera rotating blew my mind a little bit, skyarrow bridge and that city with 4 major streets come to mind
soft isleBOT
i'm going to get a female misdreavus then teach her attract, thunder wave, swagger, and curse, then evolve her into mismagius. truly nightmarishly annoying lady
ReggiesWarOnEverything (He) ↩️
OR i could get a murkrow with super luck, evolve her to honchkrow, and teach her night slash instead of curse
i love the experimentation of it all
soft isleBOT
GUYS PIKACHU HIGH FIVES YOU
i'm SO happy
i love sun i love sun so much i'm so fucking normal
torpid pivot
Gen 7 premier Gen and I shan't be persuaded, perfect stuff
soft isleBOT
i have so many stones i could evo her but. she loses her static and that's always been such a handy ability
soft isleBOT
rowlet. couldn't resist the bow tie ball
runic umbra
gen7 had decent starters
pliant violet
borb is best bird
soft isleBOT
fully evolved to decidueye
runic umbra
I almost picked the cat. because cat. but bleh, firestarters
Rowlet's probably the highlight of the bunch
soft isleBOT
rowlet to dartrix to decidueye is the evolution of a small gay boy into a professional dungeon master
runic umbra
I guess the clown seal was a bit on the nose
Generally tho a lot of fun creatures
I liked the boxing crab. even if its evolution was a little disappointing.
wild thorn
borb is best bird
arctic dagger
Big personal disagree, I think it's the right amount of goofy
That's one of my favorite gen9 designs xD
arctic dagger
they did my boy magnemite dirty with that third stage tho
Meanwhile magnezone is a Pokemon I tend to put on every team it's available in
pliant violet
Magnezone looks like a ufo
runic umbra
idunno, for me it loses its goofy charm
soft isleBOT
We’ve recently discovered how fun Garchomp is
Rocketed a few dozen spaces up our favorite Pokemon list real quick
runic umbra
it's a bit of a problem I have with the evolutions for older designs in gen4 overall.
like, they're cool, but they tend to lose the silly aspect
runic umbra
it's a bit of a problem I have with the evolutions for older designs in gen4 ove...
I think some of them do work tho.
umbral hound
Weavile is good.
arctic dagger
If you think magnezone isn't silly I can't help you tbh
umbral hound
no, many of them are silly.
and many look silly primarily by comparison to their previous evolution due to a shifting design ethos, which exacerbates that goofiness.
arctic dagger
I mean, I was responding to talhoffer who was explicitly saying that they didn't like the loss of silly
runic umbra
If you think magnezone isn't silly I can't help you tbh
not silly enough
crude moon
soft isleBOT
Drayton's challenge is so fun
we slapped together a snow team that we think might work out okay
we're gonna run the terarium challenge team against Drayton :3 should go well since we've got the type advantag- wait shit they're like 10 levels above us nvm we gonna die
runic umbra
speaking of pokémon whose evolution line is a bit disappointing: spheal.
I don't hate the follow-ups tho. It's just that spheal's so peak that everything afterwards looks like a downgrade.
soft isleBOT
Finished the indigo disk main story! That was pretty incredible, not gonna lie. 10/10, excellent work by Gamefreak. We’re honestly sad it’s over
(Yes there’s still the epilogue, will be doing that at some point)
pliant violet
it's the better of the dlcs, for my money
obtuse ravine
:D
trail bridge
soft isleBOT
got our first vgc team fully assembled 😌
https://pokepast.es/1d66ea6974a82303 we just grabbed this one that someone else made since it required very little from other games (aside from Lunala, which we have from playing UM)
peak island
Bapy
soft isleBOT
Does anyone here want to do group bbqs sometime? We’re putting a team together and we’re just missing Kyurem
obtuse ravine
group bbq? 
soft isleBOT
it's a DLC thing, you can group up to do some quests that eventually lead to being able to catch certain legendary Pokemon
they have nothing to do with barbecues at all
arctic dagger
I was sad, I wanted to go out to a pokemon themed BBQ with folks
soft isleBOT
Oh that reminds us, we have a code for 12 months of NSO with the expansion pass that we can’t use because we have the family plan. If anyone here wants it, shoot us a dm. Our account is @glacial ore
karmic imp
How do trainers pick a type to specialize in?
pliant violet
vibes
arctic dagger
Rng sometimes
"welp I caught a fletching, guess I'm a normal type trainer. It evolves NVM I'm a fire trainer."
peak island
eager vine
How do trainers pick a type to specialize in?
interests and hobbies idk
soft isleBOT
khepri has smiled upon you
0⁰0 B R E O N 0⁰0 ↩️
peak island
arctic dagger
I'm gonna be honest, a realistic pichu probably doesn't look any different than a realisitc baby pikachu
XD
They're just not that different in design
It's just rounder and babier pikachu
umbral hound
triangular ears.
pliant violet
fun fact: every water starter with a dual type also has an immunity
except hisuain samurot
pliant violet
water fighting iirc
oh nvm
water dark it is
also, there's a lot of pure water starters
Blastoise, Feraligatr, Samurott, Inteleon
compared to:
Meganium, Sceptile, Serperior, Rillaboom
Typhlosion, Emboar, Cinderace
nvm, it's actually normal
what I'm learning is a not insignificant amount of starters are monotype, not helped by gens 2,5,8 being only monotype starters
mellow robin
water fighting iirc
you might be thinking of quaquaval
pliant violet
I wasn't but I do know that is water fighting
soft isleBOT
isn't fighting immune to ghost?
oh huh, apparently not. Could've sworn Fighting was immune to Ghost
soft isleBOT
https://www.reddit.com/r/VGC/comments/1lpbcdg/vgc_2018_is_playable_on_showdown_for_the_month_of/ ooooh
azure crane
oh huh, apparently not. Could've sworn Fighting was immune to Ghost
That's Normal.
soft isleBOT
Happy to report that our pretty terrible homebrew vgc team is pretty terrible! But we won one game, which we're happy about 😌
umbral hound
what's your team?
soft isleBOT
https://pokepast.es/5fca327a191be1ad we don't know how to pick EV spreads so we just cribbed what we saw on Pikalytics
The criteria was "runs Umbreon and Alolan Ninetales"
umbral hound
The team is honestly less terrible than I was expecting from that preamble. I do wonder if Ho-oh is the right choice of legendary when you're running Umbreon as a wall, though?
soft isleBOT
yeah, ho-oh didn't feel super impactful in the games we played
umbral hound
I would also suggest tera poison for Umbreon to resist Fairy and Fighting.
soft isleBOT
oh yeah we're very open to tera suggestions - we have no idea what to set them to
umbral hound
Generally defensive teras are more impactful than offensive? There are exceptions for serious sweepers; for instance, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike usually runs tera water, and Kyurem-White could plausibly run tera ice to better spam blizzard.
Rillaboom I think usually runs tera water defensively as well? Ninetails... I think runs tera fire or maybe tera steel defensively, but I could see a strong argument for tera ice.
soft isleBOT
any suggestions for a legendary other than Ho-oh?
we're pretty restricted on our legendary access due to the games we have available, but we don't mind going out of our way if we need to
umbral hound
I'm not really sure. You have a strong physical sweeper in Urshifu and a strong special sweeper in Kyurem-White.
soft isleBOT
TR Lunala? We have one from a different team, but we don't know how much we need speed control
umbral hound
I feel like trick room is a bit weird if you don't have the team for it. And I think your team mostly has a lot of speed already?
soft isleBOT
it'd mostly be for canceling other peoples' TR
umbral hound
It feels to me like alolan ninetails and umbreon support slow play. You set up veils, you speed control with icy wind, you have taunt, you have snarl... really defensive stuff.
I'm not sure why you're running goggles on Umbreon, actually. It stops spore but I almost feel like you'd rather have leftovers?
Maybe I'm wrong about what umbreon does.
soft isleBOT
It shows up a fair bit on Pikalytics for some reason
other common options are Sitrus Berry and Leftovers
it bypasses rage powder apparently
umbral hound
It does bypass rage powder. I'm just... not sure if that's something you need to care about on Umbreon?
I mean, it is, Amoongus is strong and relevant; I just don't know if that's your highest priority worry.
the biggest most obvious fixes are the tera types, because they are not good. Rillaboom and Urshifu want tera water (although you could keep rillaboom tera grass if you wanted a more offensive build and that'll be okay), Kyurem probably wants tera ice but I could see an argument for fire, and umbreon probably wants poison (but I could also see an argument for fire).
I have no idea what Ninetails want but probably ice (if you want offensive) or uh... fire if you want defensive I think?
Ho-oh... no clue. Honestly tera fire is probably fine? If you're keeping ho-oh, which I'm not sure if you should.
soft isleBOT
we're very open to replacing ho-oh, it's just a matter of what it's replaced with
umbral hound
...I could see an argument for either Solgaleo or Necrozma-Dusk Mane. I don't know if it's a good argument, though. I am not actutally an expert.
they might want trick room, which would be a different team.
arctic dagger
I have no idea what Ninetails want but probably ice (if you want offensive) or u...
Won't fire be weak to ground in both?
soft isleBOT
we saw a tera water alolan ninetales a while ago
arctic dagger
Water makes sense to me
umbral hound
That's probably it. You're worried about fire.
arctic dagger
It's just a generically strong defensive type
umbral hound
And resisting water is also nice.
arctic dagger
Could just throw in one of the generically strong legendaries tbh
Terapagos, zamazenta
umbral hound
necrozma dusk mane is definitely a trick room wanter. Solgaleo mght be neat?
Zamazenta is actually probably exactly who you want.
soft isleBOT
strongly considering Zamazenta since we have convenient access to one lol
and we happen to really like it
soft isleBOT
shield doggo go brrrrr
umbral hound
I blanked on zamazenta. But yeah, physical sweeper who likes being able to take a turn setting up, and is also just generically really strong.
soft isleBOT
sweet, thanks so much for the advice y'all! :D
umbral hound
terapagos clears your own snow which is suboptimal (not really a problem but you probably don't love it).
arctic dagger
You probably bring it or urshifu depending on enemy team basically
Not a lot is going to counter both
soft isleBOT
what's the standard Zenta set? Body Press, Wide Guard, Iron Defense, Behemoth Bash?
manic kindle
body press, heavy slam/behemoth bash, wide guard, protect would be what i'd go with
tera dragon gives them an on-the-fly why to eat every attack that would normally murder it; tera water is similar
pliant violet
can never go wrong with protect in vgc/doubles
umbral hound
I wonder if Kyurem should have a choice item instead of a life orb.
pliant violet
ice type moves aren't commonly resisted and nothing is immune so I can see the argument
set up hail, kyurem clicks blizzard
continue till it's all gone
umbral hound
I think that's the main reason to run Kyurem-White.
smeargle is a bit too big. It should be smaller. It's disconcerting being so close to human-sized.
pliant violet
b(i)ea(g)gle
languid lichen
ice type moves aren't commonly resisted and nothing is immune so I can see the a...
it's articuno set time
soft isleBOT
happy to report that Zamazenta has been doing well in our online matches :3
we also fixed most of the tera typing issues, it just happens that having three Pokemon to make Tera Water is very expensive
umbral hound
I'm sorry to hear that. I could imagine terra ice ninetails if you want to just click blizzard a lot is probably fine?
umbral hound
Or I think I've seen tera grass rillaboom around. ...or maybe one tera ground iirc but that was weird.
languid lichen
it wouldn't be the worst, but it probably wants to live longer to threaten av multiple times
with all the tera waters, you could i suppose consider tera steel rilla?
umbral hound
what does that do for you, though? I'd do ground or dragon first. Because you want to resist fire, mostly.
steel's a fine defensive type but you usually want a tera that covers your own weaknesses. Which is part of why I suggested poison over steel for umbreon.
soft isleBOT
Nah it’s okay, when we have time we’ll just do the item printer manip
We’re thinking of respeccing the ninetails for a more defensive set because the full investment blizzards aren’t doing much
azure crane
Tera Poison Umbreon is also good because it means perfectly accurate Toxic
umbral hound
I'm not sure Toxic is tremendously important in Doubles. It takes a long time to scale up its damage, is single-target, and can miss.
umbral hound
yeah, that's true. But you aren't always going to want to tera umbreon.
pliant violet
it's true
peak island
Mean Look + Toxic tho?
soft isleBOT
Bit too slow for doubles unfortunately. Our understanding is that doubles is a very, very fast format
0⁰0 B R E O N 0⁰0 ↩️
deft path
doubles games usually last about 6-10 turns
and the speed cutoff to be considered average speed is around 100 SPD or higher
manic kindle
that said, Thunder Wave can be a niche doubles move that can come in handy
and i know umbreon makes good use of that!
soft isleBOT
Wait, umbreon gets Thunder Wave this gen?
holy shit it does
we're currently running Yawn on ours but we'll keep that in mind if we ever want to change it up
manic kindle
yeah! speed control is just really good in doubles, so if you need a status move i think its one that can take folk by surprise
crude moon
soft isleBOT
yeah umbreon got buffed this gen. They gave it psychic too, not that you'd use that in vgc
manic kindle
yeah! its gotten psychic since debut, which is a nice in-game option; but thunder wave is a nice new trick, really adds to its repertoire for status annoyances while tanking
soft isleBOT
oh huh, could've sworn that was new
but yeah, Thunder Wave is great, we might have to try that out
azure crane
eager vine
https://bsky.app/profile/rhymewithray.bsky.social/post/3lthqsezerc23
i'm noticing a trend
crude moon
iron lake
i'm noticing a trend
what's,
what's the trend
arctic dagger
I just assumed it was hot women
iron lake
bust up dresses
we think based on the reacts the implication was boobs, but this IS true
runic umbra
last one seems like a bit of a stretch. still a fun design on its own.
soft isleBOT
for CSR, is an attack IV of 2 close enough to be worth keeping? Everywhere we see keeps harping about the importance of 0 attack
manic kindle
I think it could affect some very niche damage calcs, but its functionally close enough to 0?
soft isleBOT
we're checking this out in the showdown damage calculator but it's not showing a damage difference between 0 and 2 attack IVs in level 50 doubles. Does that sound right?
0- Atk 2 IVs Tera Dark Farigiraf Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 172-208 (97.7 - 118.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
vs
0- Atk 0 IVs Tera Dark Farigiraf Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 172-208 (97.7 - 118.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Yeah if the calculator's not being bugged it should only matter in situations where Caly's had its attack buffed - which should never happen. Think we found our CSR!
Total time: 1:05:35 spent soft resetting and checking if this is the CSR we're going to take, so that's honestly not bad given how long it takes to soft reset
umbral hound
I wish there was a way to reduce IVs in the game…
soft isleBOT
Us too. Farming for 0 speed mons is the biggest reason we don’t want to play a trick room team
arctic dagger
I think there used to be?
Maybe it was EVs
Bitter berries or something
Been a long time since I used anything but showdown for comp
soft isleBOT
Those were EVs unfortunately
We don’t really play on showdown because we expect to get eaten alive lol
manic kindle
> 0- Atk 2 IVs Tera Dark Farigiraf Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 17...
nah, at lv50 the damage ranges should be in a place where you should be fine
umbral hound
thinking about Intelleon for some reason.
a pokemon streamer I watch occasionally is doing a challenge to win with every fully-evolved pokemon in S/V, and I'm randomly remembering my old ideas for Inteleon, involving giving it Sniper and a Scope Lens and putting it next to a mon with Dragon Cheer (probably Iron Jugulis, but maybe Noivern or Smeargle).
I'm thinking about who else you want on the team. You could do a razor claw garchomp which spells earthquake next to an iron jugulis, but that's sort of an alternate idea.
You could also do something with Telepathy Noivern?
I'm currently thinking Miraidon and Zacian as the restricteds, with Iron Jugulis, Inteleon, and then... I want to say Gouging Fire for some reason which I don't know why? I have no idea what to do for the sixth.
probably just Amoongus.
it would be very funny to run razor claw on miraidon. Not good, especially since the timing gets wonky if you want to tera, but funny.
soft isleBOT
okay we have what is maybe an impractical question: what makes for a good pair of Pokemon in vgc? Like we see people talk about CSR and Zamazenta being good on a team together. Is it just that they have complementary type coverage and contrasting weaknesses?
umbral hound
I am not an expert, but usually it's complementary typing or ability to solve specific problems for each other (like one of them being able to redirect moves off the other).
mellow robin
complementary types is a lot of it I think
being able to answer pokemon that the other can't and vice versa
arctic dagger
That's not always types tho'
Sometimes it's like, one shuts down the other's weaknesses because one is a huge sweeper and the other cancels priority moves or something
Sometimes there's VERY SPECIFIC combos ofc
manic kindle
with CSR and Zama, the big thing is that Astral Barrage + Body Press hits like... every relevant target, hard
Wide Guard support is really good from Zama, and Zama's Body Press has ridiculous damage calcs against most of the Dark-types in vgc doubles
Zama is also "immune" to Intimidate, which is a problem for Urshifu (the main go-to fighting type)
soft isleBOT
So really good type coverage with both of those moves, hitting really hard, on what are already some of the best Pokemon in the game
murdoc (he/him) ↩️
manic kindle
the rich get richer!
arctic dagger
That's just how comp pokemon works in general tbh
crude moon
ground/fairy is a classic example
poison, steel, and fire are the only types in the game that resist fairy, and all of them are weak against ground
soft isleBOT
the newest gen i've played is vii, is there a generation after that with a ground/fairy type
servalerror ↩️
languid lichen
no, but they mean as a pairing in doubles
soft isleBOT
ahhhhhhhh
snow cobalt
true
pliant violet
that's my little cup guy
soft isleBOT
Very good
ReggiesWarOnEverything (He) ↩️
sullen mesa
yes
karmic imp
Asphodel in Mourning
Fire is the aspect of passion and optimism. Fire sees the world as fundamentally fungible, all things either fuel to its fire, or ashes to fertilize the ground after its passing; it is only through the constant action of its will that it keeps itself, and the world, alive.[...] Those with too little Fire are plagued by nihilism and cannot find joy even in what matters to them, while those with too much Fire are so consumed by hope they cannot pause to acknowledge their own pain and grief.
azure crane
Pretty sure that was meant for the Nobilis thread.
pliant violet
fun fact: Sneasel has the highest base speed stat of all pokemon capable of evolving
languid lichen
my son is mighty
soft isleBOT
Base 115 speed is ridiculous on a not fully evolved Pokemon
pliant violet
helps that at one point it was fully evolved
which is tragic because it excludes H sneasel from LC
languid lichen
nah lmao
it's excluded from LC because it's banned
unless that's what you meant, and you were referring to the bannable stat distribution being caused by it being FE in gen 2
pliant violet
the latter
umbral hound
just had a very stupid thought: you know that one tweet that was something like "just hit on a very attractive twink and then discovered she was a lesbian who thought I was a lesbian"? Imagine that happening with Rika and Geeta.
languid lichen
heartbreaking...sol badguy from the guilty gear series turned out to be a beautiful butch lesbian again
pliant violet
I really didn't like h sneasel and sneasler to start with but they've grown on me quite a bit
languid lichen
i fucking adore this wretched little skrunkly creature
pliant violet
yeah it's bastard
problem is it's competing with croagunk and toxicroak in my mind but I realised multiple bastards can live with me rent free
umbral hound
problem is it's competing with croagunk and toxicroak in my mind but I realised ...
see that's me with impidimp. At first I disliked impidimp for being too similar to sableye but then I realized my heart was big enough for both of them.
umbral hound
how long until we get Sneaslest?
pliant violet
we don't deserve sneaslest
also I feel bad for original sneasel and weavile
because their regional cousins really bully them
languid lichen
they are uh
quite a bit stronger, and also very good against them in a direct 1v1
pliant violet
ye
pliant violet
agreed and it's true of the johtonian one for me too
arctic dagger
They feel like they have more personality I think
pliant violet
sneasel > Weavile
H Sneasel > Sneasler
arctic dagger
Less critter
pliant violet
Sneasler also just looks a little silly
it's so lanky
that's not a pokemon, that's an nba player
languid lichen
ever since i saw the fucking weezer edit, sneasler has been locked in my mind as A Weezer Guy
pliant violet
the what
languid lichen
there was this one, and then another that was like
actual fanart drawing them all in weezer poses
i can't find it though
pliant violet
also dire claw is sick nasty
like I know that's vibes unrelated but like
wow it's a good attack
though quite a few of the legends arceus moves are cracked
languid lichen
yeah
all of the genie storms are zonked
lunar blessing is also nuts
and it got nerfed from pla in a couple ways lmao
wave crash ofc
stone axe, vdance, ceaseless edge, triple arrows, esper wing, dire claw,
if mountain gale wasn't an avalugg-exclusive it'd also be insane
i forgot that headlong rush was a PLA move
but it's insane too
languid lichen
wave crash ofc
i did not
pliant violet
I forgot to know how to read
languid lichen
i could never forget wave crash
i think the only mid ones are like
psyshield bash and shelter
pliant violet
and most of these are signature moves, so they should be cracked
languid lichen
oh, infernal parade and barb barrage are pretty mid
and bitter malice is kinda lackluster too
but those three are still notably better versions of existing moves
pliant violet
stone axe suffers from being a physical rock move
like the move is good don't get me wrong but 90 acc hurts my soul
chloroblast also exists
(I looked up the page for moves, I did not remember it)
languid lichen
like the move is good don't get me wrong but 90 acc hurts my soul
it's still incredibly strong ngl
especially because of sharpness
languid lichen
understandable
arctic dagger
At some point there's gonna be a Compound Eyes physical rock type
pliant violet
some point they'll create a decent 100 acc physical rock type
umbral hound
they did, it's called ivy cudgel
pliant violet
widely available but you know what
you got me
a good signature move really do be pulling on my heart strings
umbral hound
it almost feels stupid that it counts as the answer to that, especially since it's the only answer to that, but it sure is a 100 BP 100 accuracy Rock-type move.
pliant violet
no, full credit I didn't specify non signature
signature move or signature abilities, even if not the best, really do a lot to make a pokemon stand out
umbral hound
no it's just hilarioua that it's only sometimes rock-type too.
umbral hound
rock blast is 95 accuracy
pliant violet
tera blast
umbral hound
oh.
pliant violet
right?
umbral hound
yeah, I mean, I guess!
arctic dagger
That's only 80 power tho'
SMH
It's like, only ok
80 power without any upside?
Just 100 accuracy?
Only "fine" these days
arctic dagger
some point they'll create a decent 100 acc physical rock type
Also wtf, we just ignoring Salt Cure like that?
It's so good
arctic dagger
Accelerock too, but another signature...
Mighty Cleave
...Yep that
s it lmao
Rock Type just has so few moves in general tbh
It's so sad
How is it such a popular type with so few moves
pliant violet
special rock type moves are in an even worse boat than physical
at least there are generic physical options, if inaccurate
pliant violet
How is it such a popular type with so few moves
type matchups good
pliant violet
ohhh I thought you meant popular as in liked
arctic dagger
Nah, I mean, there's 60 rock type pokemon
IAs of uhhh
Gen8 I think
It was solid middle of the pack, 10/18
So bottom half but
BY FAR the lowest number of moves IIRC
arctic dagger
I thought those two had 77?
pliant violet
bulbapedia is saying 78
oh no weird
oh it's tying them based on percent
they do have 77
rock has 78
arctic dagger
Kk, cool
pliant violet
how has that never happened
that seems like a really natural one to occur
for a long time I though that's what golette was
arctic dagger
Really? Golette I get more as ground type, for me the weird ones are like, Cofrigigas
The Galarian one
Runerigus, that's it
pliant violet
also reasonable
but like, rocks and ghosts possessing those rocks is like
that's a straightforward pairing
arctic dagger
I mean Spiritomb is the big one there but is Evil/Ghost instead
pliant violet
living statue type beat
arctic dagger
Sableeye is again Evil/Ghost
pliant violet
Sableye is a knocker/goblin, I can abide it's typing
a convergent or regional sableye though
arctic dagger
Me too but it is also explicitly partly made of rocks
I want a regional Ghost/Rock Sudowoodo
I think that'd be sick
Also kinda want a fossil that's Rock/Ghost
pliant violet
the fact galarian corsola wasn't rock ghost was a bummer
pliant violet
what unique typings are left, there can't be many
pliant violet
I know electric is the only type so far to pair with everything
pliant violet
fairy ground?
arctic dagger
Yeah
pliant violet
there's some unique typings that can probably afford to be more widespread
looking at you ttar
pliant violet
delphox has always struck me, and a lot of other people I'm sure, as a bit odd for not being fire fairy
arctic dagger
And then there's uh... 8 types that have only one pokemon
pliant violet
bug normal type that evolves into bug dragon type
arctic dagger
When Fairy got added Ninetails should have gotten it
TBH
So we have the Ninetails as Fire/Fairy and Ice/Fairy
wispy yarrow
well like, "magic" stuff in pokemon is usually like
pliant violet
does ninetails even learn any fairy moves?
pliant violet
magic is usually psychic, fairy, or dragon
wispy yarrow
a fuckin wizard
pliant violet
don't tell me dragon types don't do magic I've seen those motherfuckers
arctic dagger
...Uh.... Charm, apparently.
That's it tho'
It has a lot more Dark moves than the Alolan one does so I guess it's supposed to be evil instead of fairy
Big pile of Dark and Ghost moves Alolan Ninetails can't get
pliant violet
like I'd've been down with them giving it some fairy moves and making it fairy type in gen 6
pliant violet
ye I know
pliant violet
some pokemon annoy me for being dual type and learning like one move of their secondary type
well "secondary"
since mechanically there's no real difference
arctic dagger
Ok, so Fire/Water, Fire/Steel, Fighting/Rock, Psychic/Ghost, Psychic/Dragon, and Dragon/Fairy are all legendary/mythical only, or for the last one only seen in the mega
pliant violet
set the types free
arctic dagger
Which I think also means they should probably get more
Dragon/Fairy is a scary type combo tbh
But like Fighting/Rock has only Terrakion
What gives
Ice/Fire, Ice/Steel, and Ice/Fairy are all only in regional forms which is a bit funny
pliant violet
Dragon/Fairy is a scary type combo tbh
mega altaria?
arctic dagger
The fact there'sfreaking 4 pokemon who are Psychic/Ghost but they're all mythical or legendary is funny to me
"the last one only seen in the mega"
Yeah
pliant violet
boo
near flower
for ghost rock itd be fun if they did something referencing the sessho-seki, the killing stone said to house the spirit of tamamo-no-mae (which spooked some people when the stone broke like... 5 years ago or something?)
or maybe something based on the idea of 'cursed gems' like the hope diamond
languid lichen
or maybe something based on the idea of 'cursed gems' like the hope diamond
this would be cool
or like
a regional form spiritomb that's still stuck inside whatever stone or relic's imprisoning/maintaining it
as opposed to being capable of manifesting outside of it
azure crane
Why the fuck are Rock Slide and Rock Throw lower accuracy?
languid lichen
lower than what
arctic dagger
100 presumably
azure crane
Yep. They're both 90%. Rock Slide is 75 power, and Rock Throw is only 50.
Why does a 50 power attack need 90% accuracy?
And for the first 3 generations, Rock Slide was the strongest rock attack.
languid lichen
Yep. They're both 90%. Rock Slide is 75 power, and Rock Throw is only 50.
rock throw is because it's supposed to be a bad early game move, which is unfortunate but gen 1 design
rock slide is a spread move that can flinch
90 acc is the balancing factor from being a 30% flinch aoe
umbral hound
it's worth noting that the concept of spread moves did not exist until gen 3, though.
languid lichen
yeah, but that's why it's never gotten buffs in modern gens
bc the gen 2 flinch change and gen 3 spread change were pretty strong
and then they just added stone miss
umbral hound
Yeah, it got sort of indirectly buffed.
soft isleBOT
Found a shiny orthworm! Will upload a pic later
pliant violet
oh, worm?
round perch
Does the worm evolve?
umbral hound
alas, no
soft isleBOT
Paldea dex complete! This is our first dex completion ever :D Time to go shiny hunting!
soft isleBOT
we're looking for a shiny smeargle, it's one of our favorite shinies
that was fast.
now we gotta decide what ball to catch it in. We really should've thought about this ahead of time
snow cobalt
azure crane
karmic imp
https://bsky.app/profile/beachepisode.bsky.social/post/3lu73qmwfrk2j
Oh my 
round perch
By jeffyjeff (deltarune like a while ago) (@funnyvileplume) on Twitter.com.
karmic imp
If I got to add a pokemon, I'd probably add a ghost bug
A custom exists associating this pokemon with mourning
Often, the bereaved attempt to fill their hole breeding this pokemon, and distracting themselves from loss by maintaining a large population
Rangers abd other regulatory bodies strictly oppose this
Ghost Bug? Shedinja?
arctic dagger
Shedinja is a gimmick Pokemon first
There's a bunch of them that I'm like, we don't really have a Pokemon of this type, we have a gimmick and it kinda interacts with some parts of this type
Like yeah sure technically we have a Pokemon that is fire/ice but uh
Not really
karmic imp
Thinking of a big bug, some eerie wing pattern
Maybe an ability like wishiwashi, for the swarming?
umbral hound
I mean, Galarian Darmanitan does act like a Fire/Ice type pretty often. And is entirely usable in Zen Mode.
arctic dagger
I do not agree that it is pretty often. It has to both have a hidden ability and be under 50% hp, that is... A pretty small % of the time probably.
Just being a hidden ability means it's like, almost never in normal playthroughs.
Fun fact: THe switch2 has cut ScVi speedruns by over half an hour
Just because of loading times and FPS
The game has to be completely rerouted
Because so much of the speedrun was based on avoiding lag
And EVEN WITH the game being optimized to reduce lag it reduced it by 30 minutes just swapping console
karmic imp
Maybe an ability like wishiwashi, for the swarming?
Mourning parade?
At x condition, take on a swarm form
umbral hound
stupid idea: a swarming mon like wishiwashi but it's a giant snake which is secretly actually a train of shrews.
for some reason I imagine them as Normal/Psychic type, using their rudamentary psychic abilities to coordinate their actions perfectly.
arctic dagger
Isn't that basically just falinks
umbral hound
I mean, it's similar, but they're not just in a line. Each one bites the tail of the one in front so they can physically lift each other up and move like a snake.
arctic dagger
Falinks absolutely lift each other up and move like a snake, although they do it with holding onto each other with hands mostly I think instead of mouth?
I mean it's also fine to have Pokemon that are pretty similar to each other
God knows we have enough electric mice
And speedy dragons
umbral hound
yeah they can stack up but it's like how people would.
soft isleBOT
Pokemon Presents spoilers ||You can set the IVs directly in Pokemon Champions!!! Holy shit they actually give you access to the number||
soft isleBOT
||yup, full compatibility with Pokemon Home. It sounds like this is gonna be the main competitive platform for the foreseeable future||
obtuse ravine
||oh, you need to import your own pokemon?||
near flower
||what are yall's thoughts on mega dragonite? i think it looks really plain personally||
soft isleBOT
||there's going to be what appear to be rentals you can get, but this is clearly meant to be a supplement to the games and not a replacement||
Dani (they/she) ↩️
languid lichen
oh, i didn't realize we had the previews already
I'll have to take a look
is it official or leaks?
soft isleBOT
Official, it was on the stream earlier
signal glen
languid lichen
well, I'm primed to be disappointed because it's the only member of its like that I think sucks
languid lichen
https://youtu.be/zZAe5ewM-ic?si=mKVJr5nfI1cJkRrR
thanks
okay wow this is kind of dogwater?
i have
zero enthusiasm for this one lmao
unfortunate
i love the rust syndicate tho
obtuse ravine
||there's going to be what appear to be rentals you can get, but this is clearly...
ah tyty
soft isleBOT
so there's been some more analysis done on the Champions trailer where they showed off the ||stat changing. It looks like our read was incorrect - what we were looking at was EVs, what was being adjusted was essentially the number of stat points that would be gained at level 50 from EVs. IVs seem like they've been removed and every Pokemon has 31 in every stat, which... we're not sure how we feel about yet. Being able to do weird stuff with IVs like 0 IV for TR or for avoiding lethal Foul Plays was pretty cool||
obtuse ravine
aww :(
soft isleBOT
It genuinely could result in a better game though, so we'll see what happens
azure crane
I feel like Pokemon Champions will just be used to take down Pokemon Showdown and won't be supported afterwards.
arctic dagger
I'd rather have zero IVs than the current system
arctic dagger
I feel like Pokemon Champions will just be used to take down Pokemon Showdown an...
Well the good news is showdown is really easy to put back up if needed lmao
languid lichen
and also pokemon showdown will probably never die
arctic dagger
Showdown has like zero faith in Nintendo as a culture so is not like they're going to willingly put up shop
And I think they'd resist even if cease and desisted
soft isleBOT
Taking down Showdown is also not in line with their MO. Fan games have existed forever and Pokemon fangames that aren't monetized almost never get targeted for takedowns
arctic dagger
Yep
pliant violet
||there's going to be what appear to be rentals you can get, but this is clearly...
it appears it's not just rentals, like you can get them permanently
confirmed Z-A has drip
obtuse ravine
goooooood
pliant violet
the big thing about champions for me is it's on mobile
obtuse ravine
also oct 16th is soon
👀
i hope cyndaquil is in,,, or at least transferable ,,
🥺
started the water gym in violet but my switch has been locked down by a single monstie hunter quest
i like the lil coin guy
south laurel
okay wow this is kind of dogwater?
So I think this is one of those cases that is extremely ill-served by Pokemon's generally-kind-of-shitty 3D models
Because we've got artists doing cool stuff with the design, they've just managed to make it look kinda bad in the game
torpid pivot
the transition to 3d was only bad and I shall stand by this flag forever
pliant violet
I don't have the fondness for the sprites some people do
south laurel
I just think that the models still kinda suck even after 4 generations
Not all of the sprites were even good
And some models are better than others
But in general they're very ... awkward and blocky, and don't capture the gesture of the 2D art
south laurel
Feels like Mega Dragonite would get rock-solid benefits from its normal ability being Multiscale
Er, hidden, I guess
But the one before the mega
Since multiscale is useful exactly once, use that to set up dragon dance or something
arctic dagger
Maybe! Depends on if the mega ability is also multiscale lmao
manic kindle
aerilate 2
arctic dagger
Normal type moves become Flying...
Honestly sad about that.
Just Mega Salamence 2.0
mellow robin
honestly I'm kinda into mega dragonite on my second look
the head wings kinda give me cool vibes
arctic dagger
If its ability is actually Aerilate I'm sad
Its gonna be hard to meaningfully differentiate from Mega Salamence, one or the other will probably just be better
Dragonite
....VERY similar stat spreads
At least pre-Mega
Maybe if Mega Dragonite gets more of a boost to its defenses instead of its offensive stats like Mega Salamence does?
Gah, Mega Salamence goes up to 130 def already
mellow robin
it's sorta an extension of turning into the cute dragon
manic kindle
he loves you, so he's going to beat the shit out of you faster!
mellow robin
big cutie but moreso (fluffy wings)
manic kindle
honestly I'm kinda into mega dragonite on my second look
the head wings kinda gi...
its fun to see the line return more towards the dragonair look!
arctic dagger
But Aerilate just makes me so sad.
manic kindle
people love being vocally negative about pokemon its w/e im just so used to it it just gets blocked out immediately
ive gotta spend my time on love
arctic dagger
Very fair, and I do love the design.
mellow robin
Its gonna be hard to meaningfully differentiate from Mega Salamence, one or the ...
I was gonna talk about dragon/fairy as an angle but I forgot about altaria
arctic dagger
Ah I thought we knew it was Dragon/Flying still?
arctic dagger
Ah, yeah, I'm pretty sure they said it was Dragon/Flying
arctic dagger
Thus if it has Aerilate it ends up being Mega Salamence 2.0
Which is why the sadness
mellow robin
I'm gonna hope for Not That
arctic dagger
I like differentiation, it makes me sad for when there's opportunities for things to be interestingly different and they do the same thing
mellow robin
I don't think they'd just fully repeat an ability like that
(lati twins notwithstanding)
manic kindle
i was just joking yeah
pliant violet
Dragonate
manic kindle
nah thats why the 2 was there
arctic dagger
I just didn't understand why the 2 was there so figured it was a typo or something
mellow robin
my pocket bet is like regenerator or something
or magic guard
he's giving me those vibes
manic kindle
arctic dagger
Oh god I hope not.
Something with those stats with regenerator or magic guard would be horrifying.
pliant violet
Dragonate would be cool!
especially given dragonite learns extreme speed
pliant violet
and amped up
mellow robin
inb4 cute charm
arctic dagger
XD
mellow robin
fuck with the gender meta
pliant violet
don't the normal types that get switched by the ate abilities get a little power bump on top of the new stab bonus
mellow robin
yeah like 20 or 30%
sudden spade
Something that synergises with multi-scale would be fun. Something that lets it benefit from the fact it will tank a hit, even a super effective hit and keep going. Though regenerator would be a fucking terror/likely too much.
pliant violet
I don't think that's good because you don't want to wait to mega
arctic dagger
don't the normal types that get switched by the ate abilities get a little power...
20% yeah
I mean
Slowbro waiting to mega sometimes
Was really cool IMO
But that was more turning OFF regenerator
Which is a more interesting lever
IMO
sudden spade
Fair. I suppose Multi-Scale is still just great for 'You are gunna get in and likely get in with a pretty decent HP'
arctic dagger
Yarr, just a good thing to have for switching
mellow robin
it's a really good mega ability
arctic dagger
Cloud Nine would be interesting.
mellow robin
like speed boost or intimidate
arctic dagger
I could see Cloud Nine as fitting
mellow robin
oh that would be interesting
it's kinda niche tho
pliant violet
does cloud nine do terrain too or just weather
arctic dagger
Just weather
pliant violet
oh that would be interesting
it's kinda niche tho
weather is always good
being able to fuck with it is even better
arctic dagger
There's current rain and sun teams
So
I think sandstorm and snow have fallen off a lot?
pliant violet
and sand teams have been good previously
mellow robin
hmmm
kinda interesting in the doubles meta then
arctic dagger
Rain and sun teams are good in singles too
I'll remind you that past paradox pokemon all get powered up by sun
Allowing them to use items
Koraidon is a sonofabitch
mellow robin
cloud nine doesn't end weather, it suppresses it, right?
arctic dagger
Correct.
If the Cloud Nine pokemon dies or switches out, the weather will still be there
If it hasn't naturally ended
Something like Natural Cure which is more usually seen on Fairy types would be interesting too
It's probably going to be 700 BST so I'd prefer if it has something utility-based as an ability
Instead of offense
Dragonite doesn't need more offense XD
(Imagine it gets Pickup)
OH Thick Fat would have been really cool but I think not based on the design
But I could have imagined a Thick Fat dragonite
sudden spade
'We have a great ability but it only works on a perfectly spherical dragonite.'
arctic dagger
Huh, you know I never realized Huge Power and Pure Power were different abilities before now
WHY
Ah, Japanese it's Muscle Man vs Yoga Power
Which are at least more thematically different than Huge vs Pure power
Snerk Pressure Mega Dragonite
Back from when every legendary just had Pressure
sudden spade
Very Bullshit but very funny ability for Mega Dragonite: Fluffy. 😛
sudden spade
...I always forget Fluffy and Fur Coat are different abilities that do nearly the same thing.
south laurel
If its ability is actually Aerilate I'm sad
Aerilate Extremespeed would be wild tho
manic kindle
welcome back tera normal extremespeed dragonite
mellow robin
(Imagine it gets Pickup)
pickup on a mega would be hilarious
sudden spade
Gimme Mega Slaking with Pickup 😛
pliant violet
Aerilate Extremespeed would be wild tho
dragonate
south laurel
Would work
pliant violet
welcome back tera normal extremespeed dragonite
it's actually stronger since the ate abilities give a power bump
manic kindle
it's actually stronger since the ate abilities give a power bump
yah its just funny that the early stages of SV OU on smogon / online singles on cart were plagued by this menace
multiscale """guarantees""" at least one dragon dance and then just unga bunga spam extreme speed gets the job done
south laurel
it's actually stronger since the ate abilities give a power bump
And off of Mega stats
Happy to see Megas return
languid lichen
||https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1115790083828756581/1397363020258345010...
nah i'm still not impressed
it definitely looks less bad
but i ain't a fan of how it just adds headwings
pliant violet
and a tail gem
arctic dagger
IDK, megas have always kinda just been "The same thing but with extra spikes/feathers/etc"
I agree it's kinda just dragonite with stuff tacked on but like. That's what I expected from a Mega so I'm happy. XD
For a split second I thought that they'd reworked Tera Type to look less lame.
languid lichen
i just think it's bad stuff tacked on
pliant violet
god I hope tera stays for gen x
arctic dagger
Personally I just
Don't want a gimmick
I'd rather play base pokemon without a once per match gimmick
pliant violet
that's fair
arctic dagger
You see this pokemon? It does the thing it is supposed to.
pliant violet
I like tera a lot but second preference is none
arctic dagger
Tera is neat but there are SO MANY bans in smogon that only had to happen because of tera
It's less problematic in doubles I think?
And it's still really cool in singles just
pliant violet
I've been sold on doubles being the better and cooler format unfortunately
arctic dagger
IDK I think I'd like to see Tera take effect at end of turn or something if we keep it.
To me it's the "Suddenly a different type" thing that's the main issue
sudden spade
Tera is neat but there are SO MANY bans in smogon that only had to happen becaus...
We all float down here!
arctic dagger
Pokemon of a different type than normal? Kinda cool.
SUDDENLY?
IDK, so much of the time it just gets used so a sweeper takes 1/2 damage instead of 2x from something
So it can have set up
And that is the most boring use case of Tera for me
pliant violet
in doubles that doesn't matter as much
arctic dagger
Yah, like I said, not as big of an issue in doubles.
sudden spade
Yeah, in doubles you can just catch a pokemon in a crossfire and something is gunna connect.
pliant violet
We all float down here!
it's not tera's fault shedninja is poorly designed
arctic dagger
Oh, you know what? What I want to see is gen X is all non-wild battles are doubles battles.
If we're committing to doubles just commit to it.
Trainer battle? Doubles.
Take 2 starters
pliant violet
I was just about to say I'd like a doubles focussed game
pliant violet
Take 2 starters
if you really don't want to make more starters you could do what gen 6 did
arctic dagger
Take a starter and an old starter yeah
pliant violet
considering gen 9 already de-emphasised wild battles
sudden spade
I was just about to say I'd like a doubles focussed game
You know what would be fun there? Double focused game where every gym has two associated elements.
pliant violet
it doesn't seem unreasonable
pliant violet
You know what would be fun there? Double focused game where every gym has *two* ...
two elements or just themes, fuck types just give me themes
sudden spade
As I would 100% like a double battle focused game but I also think the current gym structure wouldn't work well with it.
arctic dagger
Doubles is at level 50 right? Have rematches with each Gym trainer where they actually run a Doubles team.
sudden spade
As a lot of what makes double battles fun is the variety of stuff it can put on table
And gyms being a pile of the same type is a very narrow version of that.
arctic dagger
When you fight a gym leader? Actually have bring 6 pick 4, and the gym leader picks its 4 based on some relatively simple AI.
sudden spade
I hope I'm coherant?
arctic dagger
Have the game teach you how to VGC as you play it.
sudden spade
It would be very funny to have a game that impliments a few of the usual rule things like Sleep Clause for trainer battles...and then just has the Bad Guy Team ignore those rules.
As you're not doing an official fight, you're in a pokemon street brawl
arctic dagger
Professor Oak: "Hey, you shouldn't put your opponent's pokemon to sleep, it's considered rude to sleep more than 1 enemy pokemon in a battle!"
pliant violet
oh bad guy for z-a has the absolute drip btw
pliant violet
no no, you're right and should say it
arctic dagger
Oh right twitter, gdi
Anyway a vtuber I follow was VERY downbad on main about it and replied to the OFFICIAL POKEMON ACCOUNT without realizing she had done so
It was very funny
sudden spade
Hah
arctic dagger
Comment was CW: Being downbad about pokemon villains in a kinda NSFW way ||"piercing my nipples to match his glasses so he can pull me in more ways than one."||
sudden spade
You know, I'm shocked pokemon has never mad the gimmick of a game...well, a revision of the item system. Giving trainers some amount of healing/status clearing/buffing that isn't tied to 'You can hold 99 of this in your bag'. XD
arctic dagger
I mean, pokemon is an adventure game about resource management arguably at its roots
This is why stronger moves had lower PP values, etc
pliant violet
I think the next mechanic will be based on abilities
arctic dagger
Hmm. Like, you trigger a thing and you get a new ability or swap between your existing ones?
I think swapping between your potential abilities mid battle would be a cool way to do it.
pliant violet
or apply an additional ability on top of your normal ones yeah
arctic dagger
Potentially powerful but without quite the game breaking effects of Types mostly.
pliant violet
megas are stats, z-moves are moves, dynamax isn't real, tera is types
arctic dagger
I'm thinking of a bunch of pokemon who'd LOVE to have two of their abilities
Obvious example of course being like Alolan Ninetails who would set up AND benefit from snow
"When I enter I set up Snow and also have Snow Cloak"
Lmao
Does VGC ban evasion?
sudden spade
Lanturn with Water Absorb + Volt Absorb. "Can I be a good pokemon now?"
arctic dagger
I mean it's 460 BST with an even stat spread and no ludicrously unfair ability so
Probably not
Give it Tail Glow
Then we can talk
sudden spade
Meanwhile Dracovish with Sand Rush + Strong Jaw. "Want to see me click Fishious Rend? Want to see me click it again?"
arctic dagger
Fishious Rend is just one of those moves that were a mistake
It's so obviously a bad idea.
Maybe if it didn't apply on switching or something
IDK, they did the right thing by just not having it in gen 9 lmao
pliant violet
I actually think fishious rend would be fine without strong jaw
arctic dagger
Given it's fine on Arctovish, yeah maybe
IDK I really think we need fewer moves, even signature moves, that are over 80 power
If a move is more than 80 power I think it should have a drawback
sudden spade
There's a lot of pokemon that would kill to have a second ability. Azumarill would love being able to have both Huge Power and Thick Fat.
arctic dagger
I... Would it?
It's not weak to either fire or ice.
It turns two 1/2 resistances to 1/4?
sudden spade
I mean, it's still more resistances but yeah, Sap Sipper is likely the better one there.
arctic dagger
Sap Sipper + Huge Power would be way better
sudden spade
Huge Power + Yeah
arctic dagger
Turn one of your only 3 weaknesses into an immunity with upside vs two resistances into more resistances
sudden spade
Looking for thigns with second abilities is really making me aware that a lot of pokemon with 1 really good ability have really ratshit other abilities.
arctic dagger
Esp an attack boost on a Huge Power pokemon
sudden spade
'Hi, I'm Medicham. I can have Pure Power or...Telepathy'
arctic dagger
I mean, Telepathy is actually often pretty good in doubles from what I understand
sudden spade
It's not a bad ability but it's kinda not really in competition with pure power.
arctic dagger
Sure but like
pliant violet
If a move is more than 80 power I think it should have a drawback
I dunno, not while there's generic stuff like flamethrower thunderbolt and icebeam
arctic dagger
You really don't want more abilities in competition with Pure Power
pliant violet
with no downside
arctic dagger
Yeah sorry, I kinda mean those should be the cap of strong AND reliable
90 instead of 80 then
sudden spade
brb, sneaking into gamefreak offices and giving my favorite fairy type pure power when nobody is looking. Lets see how that crow likes Gigaton hammer now.
pliant violet
I dunno about drawback but no upside I can get behind
(flamethrower and it's kin are 90bp with upside)
arctic dagger
True.
I mean earthquake is 100 with no upside, in that it has a both upside and downside
So probably use that as standard
pliant violet
earthquake is as good as a move should ever be, I agree
arctic dagger
Yeah exactly
pliant violet
unfortunately I will be out here gambling on dire claw till I die
arctic dagger
And there's just so many moves better than EQ these days
Dire Claw makes me SO sad
It's both very strong AND so unreliable
A move having 200 power and 40 accuracy isn't good either, there's a reason OHKOs are usually banned XD
pliant violet
it's better poison jab
and if you're running a physical poison type that's a good place to be
arctic dagger
Higher status chance, AND higher crit chance
sudden spade
I think there's some room for exceptions in specific cases. Like Gigaton hammer buys a lot of power off the back of 'It only exists on a pokemon with 75 base attack'.
That said: On a broad level for moves available several places I 100% agree.
pliant violet
Higher status chance, AND higher crit chance
no higher crit chance since ScVi
sudden spade
Or for signature moves on pokemon who's base attack doesn't suck 😛
arctic dagger
Ah that's nice
Yeah I mean, signature moves point is they break rules.
Unfortunately, signature moves have the same problems as megas a lot of the time.
In that it's the pokemon who don't need them who often get them
pliant violet
yeah signature moves get to be more specially tuned and I'm ok with that
sudden spade
Most of the pokemon that get a signature tend to already be pretty beefy and then the signature is extra beef.
arctic dagger
Pokemon is a game of winners stay winning, losers stay losing
pliant violet
since like gen 7 basically every pokemon either has a signature move or ability
arctic dagger
It's rough out here for a pocket monster
pliant violet
and I'm ok with that
arctic dagger
I'm ok with that! I like uniqueness.
But also often they're just extra raw strength
pliant violet
poison jab makes me mad because iron fist does not apply to it
arctic dagger
On something that already has extra strong strength
pliant violet
I don't think there's a pokemon with iron fist that can learn poison jab
arctic dagger
If your signature move is 120 power 100 accuracy and no other effects
pliant violet
but it should be a punching move
sudden spade
Yeah like 'Hey look, one of the only pokemon that gets Fisheous Rend is also the pokemon with strong jaw' is just 'why did you do this?'
arctic dagger
In Japanese it's closer to "Poison Stab"
IIRC
Yeah just checked
The original users all had spiky poison bits to stab you with, not fists
Nidoking has fists but it's clearly supposed to be using its horns for it
pliant violet
it is but I stand by what I said
sudden spade
A bit of standardization of power would also be nice because it would do what I'd really hope for.
arctic dagger
I mean
sudden spade
Give me some more god damn rock moves
pliant violet
and a jab is a punch
anyway I like that they're more and more willing to just give pokemon shit
arctic dagger
TRUE
I love that it actually saw competitive usage finally!
People tried it to begin with and it was garbage
No one could get it to work
But then it did!
Hyper offense team IIRC
deft path
Does VGC ban evasion?
No it's just not very good in vgc
takes too long to set up
the main pokemon that learn strong evasion moves would have to sacrifice dps to set it up, and two stages of evasion is as effective as one stage of evasion, so even with double team you'd need at least two turns to really have an impact
not to mention several of the best VGC mons run guaranteed hit moves that aren't even impacted by evasion or have ways to ignore accuracy
so its just generally kind of weak in a situation where you're basically spending two turns to do nothing but maybe survive being one shot once or twice while your opponent gets to freely switch, set up, or click moves
a lot of VGC is efficiency/mindgames
and evasion sadly contributes to neither
so as funny as extreme speed scale shot +6 evasion normal tera normal gem dragonite would be its just not happening 😔
arctic dagger
I was more thinking about the snow cloak and snow warning at the same time minerals
Ninetails
manic kindle
big thing holding back the evasion ability mons in doubles is both opportunity cost as a team slot, and general raw power for doubles
like okay! your brightpowder Glaceon is here! now what
your blizzard doesnt ko anything so your whole team dies and eventually they'll hit you
its a neat example of the opportunity cost in doubles being so different / redirection and blocking just being better than evasion
deft path
I was more thinking about the snow cloak and snow warning at the same time miner...
oh that's because of aurora veil being busted
The main reason to do that is because it lets you set up three different powerful defensive effects in one turn
soft isleBOT
the thing is that the snow cloak strat isn't fantastic, from what we can tell. Our main team is a Snow team and the big things it has going for it are Aurora Veil and 100% accurate Kyurem-W Blizzards. The evasion from Snow Cloak wouldn't really do that much unless it was available on better Pokemon
soft isleBOT
the problem there is that Alolan Ninetales is even better as a snow setter, so you can't really run Snow Cloak on it
soft isleBOT
Oh my gods he’s perfect
torpid pivot
I just never understand Head Wings
languid lichen
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GwjAKz2XMAIsV1m.jpg:large
i wouldn't give it an exclamation point, or caps
i just think it's kind of ass
it would have been neat if they'd done the feather-wings as like, an across-the-body thing instead of a hat
manic kindle
Thats my fun goofy son