I can see where you're coming from, just feels a little shaky to me. Weather getting cold is just part of the natural cycle of things, rather then something destructive and unnatural like poison or steel.
#POKÉMON CENTER
lunar hinge
obsidian stump
tbh I'm also just not that interested in the explanation for why types interact with each other
why is ice good against dragon, y'know?
lunar hinge
Dragons are lizards, lizards no like cold.
obsidian stump
I'm more approaching this from the perspective of like: ice's biggest niche in the early gens was being super effective against this rare, powerful type that was hard to deal supereffective damage to
but as fairy has pretty much replaced dragon as the most powerful type, and also can deal supereffective damage to them, that niche is much less useful
sudden spade
Dragonite: "Does that mean I was good?"
Everyone: "No, fuck off. You were never good until you got Multiscale. Because every single water pokemon got a lot of ice moves."
More seriously: I think the issue with ice is that ice as a pokemon type has no value. Ice as a move type is entirely fine. So ice being super effective on fairy would be 'okay' but I'd much rather fairy be Resisted By Ice (Or both).
obsidian stump
so I think making ice good against fairy would be a good way to both buff it and also restore its niche as "the hyperoffense type thats good against the otherwise strongest types"
sudden spade
Especially since Ice has a lot of Defensive Pokemon.
But those pokemon have nothing to resist except themselves
If a Defensive Ice could just laugh off Moonblasts it would be a lot more interesting.
If I'm being remotely coherant?
obsidian stump
no yeah that makes sense
in my version of this hypothetical I was thinking it wouldn't actually get fairy resist, just because part of its identity is that it only resists itself currently
but if we are opening that up, I think giving it fairy and water resist would also help a lot
sudden spade
My concern with not playing with ice's resistances is that I think making ice blast faries good would be a massive buff to water pokemon
More than ice pokemon
As water pokemon tend to get access to ice moves
And are already a very good type themselves
lunar hinge
Yeah, tons of water pokemon learn ice moves don't they?
obsidian stump
yeah thats very fair, I was just approaching it from the direction of "minimal changes"
sudden spade
Also: I just want Articuno to be good again. It's not been good since gen 1 ;-;
languid lichen
Yeah, tons of water pokemon learn ice moves don't they?
it's an extremely minimal percentage that doesn't
obsidian stump
(also, this has nothing to do with alolan ninetails being one of my favorite pokemon 😛 )
languid lichen
this is basically the whole list
oh, keldeo also gets icy wind
i forgot to filter for that because it's such a rare move
sudden spade
Also: I feel like some of those are very 'by technicality'. XD Tatsugiri and Magikarp are not real pokemon and Quaxly evolves into things that do learn it. XD
languid lichen
oh, palpitoad is also knocked off the list with icy wind
yeah
there
fully-evolved waters with none of the Real Boy Ice Moves or icy wind
three of them are form changes
(ogerpon, washtom, tauros)
two of them have Being Fire Type as a gimmick
sudden spade
The only one there that I'm surprised by is Walking Wake.
languid lichen
(volcanion, walking wake)
obsidian stump
check powder snow just in case too
obsidian stump
I could see that knocking one of them off tbh
lunar hinge
So basically the only ones that don't are gimmicks.
obsidian stump
or wait actually no, not with those 5 6 lol
languid lichen
I could see that knocking one of them off tbh
nah, none of these get damaging ice moves of any sort
volcanion and walking wake are the only real mons
obsidian stump
yeah I realized when I looked closer at the list
languid lichen
and both of them are Very Fire Yes
sudden spade
Yeah, so 'water pokemon that don't get the ability to nuke dragons via ice' is very narrow.
languid lichen
walking wake isn't technically (okay this is a very disingenuous use of technically) fire type
but it has protosynthesis (the sun ability) and its sig is hydro steam
(a water move that gets empowered instead of debuffed by sun)
lunar hinge
It's dragon type which is basically being an honorary fire type.
languid lichen
and it gets flamethrower
so it's 30% a fire type
most dragons get ice moves tbh
well, ig not anymore
but for most of pokemon's lifespan most dragons got ice moves
lunar hinge
BTW still on the Bagon grind.
languid lichen
jesus
lunar hinge
1%
languid lichen
yeaj
sudden spade
Ice and Rock are the two types I'd love to see them tinker with. In part due to the same issue: Being types that are bad for defence that mostly get defensive pokemon. XD
obsidian stump
the shiny salamence is real, just gotta keep gambling
lunar hinge
I'm not even trying to get a shiny, I just want a 1% chance pokemon.
languid lichen
GF's addiction to slow physically defensive ice types makes me so sad
GLACEON
WHY
aurorus...
abomasnow...
sudden spade
Unironically: I think rock or ice should get a body press variant and ice should especially get a special defence body press. XD
If you're gunna give these pokemon that can't take hits due to typing big defensive stats, at least let them go 'Hey, I can attack with defence'
languid lichen
ehhhh
there are more physdef ices than spec
and snow boosts ice def
i'd like to see a special ice body press that works off physdef
but not off spdef
that'd basically just be good on regice and cryogonal
sudden spade
And Articuno 😛
obsidian stump
y'all I need opinions
do I evolve my shiny charjabug?
on one hand, I could use the vikavolt for the rest of my playthrough
languid lichen
yeah
sudden spade
Articuno is a pokemon I love the look of and I love the idea of. It's my favorite gen 1 pokemon but 'Defensive Flying/Ice Type' is...oof
languid lichen
railgun bug is neat
obsidian stump
on the other, I generally prefer the charjabug shiny to vikavolts
I'm not a huge fan of the green on the outside of it
lunar hinge
Absolutely evolve it. Having the early game bug evolve to be a 500 bst special attacker was one of the best ideas game freak had.
I also say again, I think it would be neat if the first bug/dragon was both the early game bug and the pseudolegendary.
obsidian stump
100% agree there
near flower
^
obsidian stump
alright I'm going to evolve it, but if I regret it later I will be posting a frowny face in this channel
obsidian stump
with that in mind, y'all have nickname ideas for a shiny vikavolt? I'm going for a food theme for this run
languid lichen
eclair
lunar hinge
I don't think so, Flygon is more about being a desert dragon then a lacewing. Besides, none of it's other stages are bug types.
obsidian stump
actually this shiny is pretty damn cool
lunar hinge
You don't think silver, green, and orange work on paper but then you see it together until it does.
azure crane
I am super sad that they didn't give my favorite Dragon a mega.
lunar hinge
WOO-
snow cobalt
🫵
obsidian stump
Don't give in to temptation, the salamence is real
lunar hinge
No thanks! I've already spent like 3 hour going after this bastard, I'm not running myself ragged for a 1% chance in a 1% chance.
red rampart
Do it
lunar hinge
No!
red rampart
Do it
foggy mango
There is only one choice Slash...
lunar hinge
NO.
red rampart
DO IT
lunar hinge
No, I'm headed to the next island!
obtuse ravine
lunar hinge
Side note, I love team skull, just a bunch of losers trying to act hard and tough.
lunar hinge
Team update
red rampart
Ooh, egg
lunar hinge
The egg is the Eevee egg you get at the daycare, nothing special.
Although It will be my first time hatching an egg.
azure crane
red rampart
Somewhere, Wolfe Glick’s heart rate is spiking
cold rain
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/302669235199672330/1351308573896085595/20...
good lord my sides
lunar hinge
Also, hot take: I like ride pokemon more then the hms and key items they replace.
manic kindle
i like them a lot because it feels like a natural extension of the pokemon-people cooperation
lunar hinge
Yes. Yes it is apparently.
obsidian stump
it has been a hot bit since I've played gen 7, but I do remember them feeling somewhat awkward in that game
I liked their PLA implementation significantly more
arctic dagger
I feel like pretty much everyone hated HM moves tho'?
manic kindle
I'm true neutral towards HM moves
I understand and usually appreciate the puzzle of moveset restrictions and team selection, especially since most HMs are fine moves, but I also don't miss them and don't mind the shift to easier and more community-friendly options.
but i also tend to play a lot of the older games unmodded repeatedly, or with romhacks that keep older trends like HMs, so I know I'm a minority
sudden spade
I like HMs because I am a cruel trainer who likes to tell my pokemon 'Your only purpose in life is to take me places'
More seriously: I don't mind ride pokemon but I like when there is variety in the ride.
I like HMs if you're doing a themed run
As it forces squaring the circle of theme + mobility
Which can end up with 'Oh hey, this one can learn strength'
lunar hinge
Very fun Wishiwashi's school from has a higher bst then a pseudo.
round perch
Somewhere, Wolfe Glick’s heart rate is spiking
Who?
red rampart
Comp pokemon player who does not like incineroar
manic kindle
probably the best pokemon player in the world in a vacuum
arctic dagger
Wait I thought he was famous for winning with Incineroar?
manic kindle
yeah, and doing some sicknasty mindgames with him
but also he (lately) memes about it and may or may not be tired of said memes, its hard to read over tweets
lunar hinge
Damn, Masked Royal is cool, if only we knew who he really was...
lunar hinge
What should I evolve the egg eevee to?
lunar hinge
Trying to get a female Salandit is annoying, but my Eevee having run away makes it a bit less painful.
umbral hound
I'm tempted to say Sylveon probably?
lunar hinge
I did teach it baby doll eyes. so I just need to get it's affection up. I could go for Espeon too, since I'm playing Sun and it would be thematic.
I think I will do Sylveon, It's only level 16, so If i evolve it at 17, I'm not missing too much from Eevee or Sylveon.
Oh shit I even got a rare candy, so all I need is two affection.
Trans dog get.
I CAN'T STOP WINNING.
Sorry Bagon, into the box.
red rampart
snow cobalt
WHOAH
arctic dagger
Huh I thought I posted that already but apparently I just thought really hard about doing so lmao
manic kindle
ooo im excited
snow cobalt
deft path
or did they patch that
It can't be patched because of how picnicking works
lunar hinge
Wimp out is. Interesting.
red rampart
It certainly makes them interesting to catch
lunar hinge
I just threw a quick ball. But yeah, it basically does switch training for you kinda, pulling our wimpod when it gets to injured so you can worry less about it fainting.
pliant violet
most positive view on wimp out I've ever seen
lunar hinge
You must understand I am very reckless 'Attack attack attack' style player. So anything that forces me to play cautiously helps.
manic kindle
it evolves very nicely with Golisopod's style, you'll love him
lunar hinge
Oh yeah I know. My only complaint is that it is a physical attacker and there are very few physical water moves, two of which it does learn. One at a level before it evolves.
pliant violet
liquidation is probably the best physical water move
lunar hinge
Yeah. I taught my windpod Scald so it would have literally any water stab but it still isn't great because it is physical skewed, barely but still.
red rampart
I don’t think the physical skew is the reason you’re having trouble with wimpod
manic kindle
FIRST IMPRESSION LIQUIDATION SUCKER PUNCH 🗣️
red rampart
Oh yeah I know. My only complaint is that it is a physical attacker and there ar...
Well, I’m sure you can just go to the Alola move reminder for that move, right? 🙂
It’s not like they’d put that in a ridiculous area right?
🙂
lunar hinge
I know about that and I hate it.
lunar hinge
Gotta farm heart scales too, deplete the seas of Luvdisc.
red rampart
It is postgame, yes
🙂
I love gen 7 but they made some truely boneheaded decisions with some of the new pokemons' learnsets
lunar hinge
Yeah. Atlease it learns sucker punch at level 31, which is post evo.
red rampart
Yep
lunar hinge
Really gotta say Game Freak, I don't think giving Wimpod more then two moves would have shattered the game balance. I get it's supposed to be a Magikarp situation but c'mon, give it Razor Shell.
red rampart
I love gen 7 but they made some truely boneheaded decisions with some of the new...
Like alolan marowak, which at level 27 gets its signature move Shadow Bone, an 85 power ghost type physical attack
Which is the only ghost type physical move it learns! And it evolves at level 28
lunar hinge
What's frustrating is they could have fixed that in USUM, they changed the level Pokemon learn things during gens before! Literally the previous gen, tons of Pokemon got learn set changes from xy to ORAS.
What's extra annoying is they changed it in gen 8 to be an evo move. Small problem, outside of Alola, a cubone won't evolve into an Alolan Marrowak, just a regular one!
pliant violet
and unfortunately they went and made it baller as fuck
might be my favourite regional pokemon
lunar hinge
IT'S SO FUCKING COOL. I wish I had a spot for it, but I already have a fire type and a ghost type on my team.
azure crane
azure crane
Like alolan marowak, which at level 27 gets its signature move Shadow Bone, an 8...
Heh, "boneheaded".
lunar hinge
Golisopod get!
lunar hinge
God first impression is so good.
Not very effect, still shaves of 75 percent of a Pokemon's health.
lunar hinge
Should I buy the tm and teach my Dartrix Aerial Ace?
Or should I buy and teach Golisopod swords dance?
cold rain
I'm a huge fan of swords dance so i say yes
fickle thicket
both okay choices I'd say
that said, golisopod isn't much for setup because of emergency exit
fickle thicket
not? shame
lunar hinge
Golisopod can learn it from the move relearner, but that's a ways away. And apparently Dartrix can learn it it later gens but can't in sumo.
fickle thicket
those 140/90 defenses would've been good for it
lunar hinge
Golisopod also can't learn u-turn, which would have been very nice.
Could buy and teach Dartrix roost.
fickle thicket
Golisopod also can't learn u-turn, which would have been very nice.
I am in genuine disbelief
fickle thicket
Could buy and teach Dartrix roost.
decidueye won't get much out of stall moves
lunar hinge
Yeah, seems like the tm shop doesn't have much for my team. Shame.
fickle thicket
you could always buy a jumbo malasada
I forgot what those do but it's probably good for something
it's jumbo
lunar hinge
I am in genuine disbelief
My guess is because it a physical attacker bug type why a built in escape option giving it one of the better physical bug type move that is an escape option would be too good.
fickle thicket
but the flavour
manic kindle
first impression 🗣️ liquidation 🗣️ sucker punch 🗣️ go my bug kill them all
lunar hinge
but the flavour
First impression, u-turn repeat combo would too strong.
manic kindle
leech life is also a nice 4th slot cuz it got buffed that gen
fickle thicket
First impression, u-turn repeat combo would too strong.
but the 
thematique flaire
lunar hinge
leech life is also a nice 4th slot cuz it got buffed that gen
You'll never believe what's in my 4th slot.
fickle thicket
I should really do that mono ghost ultra sun run someday
It's one of the best gens to do that type in too
lunar hinge
Imagine bug types being good. Golisopod would kill a kantonian child.
deft path
i highly recommend aerial ace instead of swords dance
golisopod is one of the worst pokemon to put setup moves on
lunar hinge
Dartrix can't learn aerial ace in sun and moon.
languid lichen
golisopod
obsidian stump
What's crazy is that golisopod probably isn't even the best bug/water mon in that gen
I love goli, but water bubble is cracked
lunar hinge
Araquanid is nice but golisopod is more suited to my playstyle.
languid lichen
goli and araquanid were pretty competitive with each other in gen 7
but it's oscillated after
araquanid was dogshit for (most of) gen 8
seeing fringe play in some higher tiers as a web setter, but having a truly apalling time there because of the infinite electric types that made it cry
and not really having a home in RU with golisopod otherwise
in gen 9 it's OU because basically everything that bullies other web setters dies like a bitch to liquidation
both of the paradox donphans are ground and have a ton of trouble being a roadblock, iron moth and roaring moon love to run booster energy sets and bully out most hazard setters, but get memed on by araquanid
and cinderace isn't allowed to hotswap the webs
and then golisopod doesn't exist
no idea how they compete in doubles
lunar hinge
I don't know either, I couldn't care less about competitive pokemon.
lunar hinge
Also, love sucking cells into my cube.
manic kindle
Araquanid is nice but golisopod is more suited to my playstyle.
Get him in there 🔥 🔥 🔥
lunar hinge
I gave up on the shiny Litten hunt and went on the hunt for a female Popplio in Moon, cause I think the names Aria would be cute for one.
lunar hinge
3 fucking pichu in a row.
lunar hinge
languid lichen
based
lunar hinge
Should I replace Rock Tomb or Smack Down with Rock Blast?
arctic dagger
Playing casually? Almost certainly yes
lunar hinge
Which one? I'm guessing smack down?
arctic dagger
It's generally the worst of the three if you don't happen to also be ground type
If you do it might be useful for forcing super effective damage on steel flying or something
lunar hinge
Makes sense, it always does the same damage if it hits, and probably almost always does more.
arctic dagger
But even then the speed drop from rock tomb or just switching might be better
lunar hinge
Maybe I should get rid of rock tomb for another rock move in the future. I kinda don't want my opponent slower cause I have gyro ball on my Golem too, as a bit of anti-fairy damage.
arctic dagger
Are you Alolan golem or normal?
lunar hinge
Alolan
arctic dagger
Yeah for sure then
Iirc you'll get rock slide as just the rock move you should always use at some point
Alolan golem usually wants rock, electric, explosion, stealth rock or something like that
And what move is your electric depends on what ability you have
lunar hinge
Iirc you'll get rock slide as just the rock move you should always use at some p...
No it's a TM, one you need to use sharpedo to get to which I don't have yet.
And it has magnet pull.
arctic dagger
Ok you probably want earthquake or other anti steel coverage on it then
Since countering steel types is kinda the point of magnet pull
languid lichen
Iirc you'll get rock slide as just the rock move you should always use at some p...
it learns stone edge naturally
arctic dagger
Ah that one then
You're... 34 if you're learning rock blast
So you should have Thunder Punch/Rock Blast/Stealth Rock/Self Destruction right now probably?
You mentioned Gyro so replace one of them with that
shrug
lunar hinge
I replaced self destruct since it doesn't have the ability that makes normal type moves electric.
languid lichen
galvanize is the hidden ability, yeah
dusk bison
If you get explosion, I'd hang on to it
languid lichen
ehhhhh
dusk bison
Going boom on something you can't otherwise easily threaten is valuable
Especially if it's casual
languid lichen
without galvanize, "having a golem" is a better prospect than "killing one thing"
edgequake is a classic two-move coverage combo for a reason
dusk bison
Is this a Nuzlocke?
arctic dagger
Eh.
dusk bison
And once it has done that and there's nothing else for it to do, kaboom
You want Earthquake as a steel killer for magnet pull, and then rock and electric stab. I don't think it's a choice between stone edge and explosion, more so between Stealth Rock and explosion
I just don't see the value in stealth rocks in a casual playthrough
obsidian stump
Bit late on this, but I don't really see the point in not having explosion
You don't have to use it all the time, but it's a potent option that will be helpful, and just increases your golem's versatility
torpid pivot
Rude to Golem, exploding hurts him v-v
Also RE: Gen 3, I've always been a water fan what really gets me is Secret Bases being one-off mechanic
red rampart
lunar hinge
I KNOW THAT HAIR, GRIMSLEY!
I found the tm for wild charge, is the recoil worth the 15 more damage from my Alolan Golem's thunder punch?
manic kindle
I tend to think so!
arctic dagger
Absolutely.
At least personally, the way I like to use Alolan Golem is a Problem Solving unit
It kills one thing with extreme prejudice that it counters, and then it explodes to do the same to a second it maybe doesn't
It's not there to kill lots of stuff, it doesn't have the right combo of bulk&recovery or the speed
It's slow, and if it gets hit by special attacks, it dies, and it's weak to half the game
Alolan Golem at least only has ONE 4x weakness rather than 2
lunar hinge
Cool. It also knows rock slide now also.
arctic dagger
But Ground is a very common type
XD
So yeah, kill 2 things as hard as possible and then move on to let the next guy do their job by dying
lunar hinge
Oh i found explosion too.
Also for ground I have a water and a grass type, I'll be fine there.
lunar hinge
I got 41 cells and cores, only 9 more and I can get 50 percent zygarde.
south laurel
That’s Alola :P
Oh Jesus sorry topple, did not see how far back I was pinging
I was scrolled way the fuck up
pliant violet
alola has more water than hoenn but unlike hoenn does not feel like it has too much water
dusk bison
I think it's because it's not so bunched together
The split between land and water is cool and very thematic, but it does mean you have a lot of surfing all at once
soft isleBOT
We have been playing a little bit of the post-rotation tcg format and it feels very good. The pace is much slower and more interactive, at least judging by the games we played.
pliant violet
excellent, what deck are y'all on
soft isleBOT
Currently we’re playing Feraligatr, which is a really fun single-prize stall deck. It has been doing pretty well in the Japanese post rotation format, so it’s what we’re going with until we get enough of N’s Zoroark ex to build an N’s deck.
We actually have one N’s Zoroark ex which we traded for during a prerelease, so we just need three more.
pliant violet
N N N
pliant violet
I like that this one is voting
his approach to educational content is both clever and entertaining
manic kindle
yeah its really nice
lunar hinge
50 percent Zygarde acquired!
obtuse ravine
how do the different % forms differ?
are you collecting shards of it or something?
red rampart
Pretty much yeah
pliant violet
cells
lunar hinge
Yeah, there's 95 cells and 5 cores all around Alola.
Cores let you teach it specific moves
pliant violet
thousand waves
lunar hinge
thousand waves, thousand arrows, extreme speed, dragon dance, and core enforcer.
pliant violet
so that's fenrir, the snake is jormangandur, the giant is Surtr
xerneas is the stag that rests in the branches of ygdrasil, yveltal is Veðrfölnir
lunar hinge
I'd say more Hel tbh, since the other two are children of loki and she is too, and they both have the two different sides thing going on.
pliant violet
it makes more sense to be surtr, given the apocalypse themeing
but you could br right
manic kindle
thousand arrows my beloved
languid lichen
lunar hinge
If Pokemon can evolve through friendship, the power of friendship is perfectly valid!
lunar hinge
Also, Zygarde kinda proving to be killer against team skull and all their poison types
obtuse ravine
Yeah, there's 95 cells and 5 cores all around Alola.
oh interesting
lunar hinge
Oh team skull really is evil, they're bringing for profit healthcare to the Pokemon world!
Team Skull Grunt: Uses nasty plot 3 times then toxic. What was the plan there?
obsidian stump
Had to plot nastily about just how badly they were gonna poison your mon
Obviously
lunar hinge
Nanu hitting that pose while keeping is his deadpan face is peak comedy.
lunar hinge
I think Z-Moves are neat, but are they worth losing your held item?
languid lichen
yes
lunar hinge
Fair enough.
obsidian stump
in comp settings people rarely if ever ran more than one mon with a z crystal since they could only use the one
so if you could do something like that if your worried about losing out on held item value
but tbh I'm struggling to imagine a lot of held items available mid playthrough that would be more valuable than even just the potential for that mon to use a z-move
lunar hinge
There's things like the Light Ball, Thick Club, Eviolite, berries, and the items that give certain types moves bonus damaged but that it really.
obsidian stump
the type booster items really aren't worth it imo, at least compared to a Z move
Leftovers, some berries, and the mon-specific items are the only ones I can really see being more valuable in a playthrough
manic kindle
i just go with what fits my trainer in the run
lunar hinge
It's weird Pokemon just has like. Teleportation technology.
sullen mesa
lunar hinge
Y'know what, that's fair.
arctic dagger
Also the actual teleportation seems to be pretty short ranged
umbral hound
I thought that pokeballs worked, not because of pocket dimension technology, but because pokemon can just Do That.
arctic dagger
Nah it's kinda clear in Legends Arceus it's Something About Pokeballs
It's... Not clear it's technology?
obtuse ravine
apricorns are magic
manic kindle
apricots are pretty magical, i love eating apricot jam
fickle thicket
pokémon anime is finished, all hail pokémon anime
languid lichen
azure crane
soft isleBOT
oh my gods they shadow dropped pre-orders for the next set on the Pokemon Center website
time to hope we get in before they run out of ETBs
manic kindle
HES HERE
lunar hinge
Battery bug has become railgun stag beetle
wild thorn
Hell yeah Vikavolt fan
lunar hinge
I am bug-type's number one fan. I if I was designing a pokemon game I'd make the pseudo bug dragon and have a bug type elite four member.
wispy yarrow
Bug is cool
One of my favorite changes in the Legacy hacks was making Cut a bug-type move
spring hedge
buges good
wild thorn
I had a Vikavolt on me for the final parts of the Violet story I finished a couple of days ago
torpid pivot
Vikavolt deserves 4x the speed stat, is a good creature, what a shape on there
pokedex stop lying about things challenge; impossible
snow cobalt
lunar hinge
pokedex stop lying about things challenge; impossible
Speed is initiative or ability to act swiftly, not move speed! Vikavolt needs time to charge it's attacks!
dusk bison
Vikavolt deserves 4x the speed stat, is a good creature, what a shape on there
You'd enjoy the Buffelsaft lines of ROM Hacks, Vikavolt is busted there because of its high speed stat
red rampart
south laurel
My hot take is that I really like the Gen 1 model of Special being one stat as well as the general differentiation in what high-end moves look like between physical and special
sudden spade
...why do you like special being one stat? As the inability to have a defensive but pillowfisted special attacker was always part of the issue with it.
languid lichen
https://tenor.com/view/clodsire-gif-7145421249015975805
alternatively
god i love clodsire
genuine peak design
languid lichen
i'm so glad it's good
i love seeing its dumb idiot face everywhere
clodsire is shaped like a friend
azure crane
arctic dagger
Kyoot
lunar hinge
I forgot fairy was super against fighting.
covert saffron
chat, would miltank - espeon - umbreon be too cracked for a second gym leader’s team?
obsidian stump
uhh probably yeah lol
miltank is cracked as the ace of a 3rd gym leader lol
there are definitely some second gym leaders with good strong, fully evolved pokemon, but only gardenia two (and only in platinum), one of those two cherrim
Espeon and Umbreon alone would be cracked as hell for a 2nd gym leader, let alone Miltank too
manic kindle
chat, would miltank - espeon - umbreon be too cracked for a second gym leader’s ...
whats the expected level and what should the player have?
arctic dagger
I mean, if player has easy access to a strong fighting type
Like if it's gen6 and they've been gifted a Lucario right before this fight
It's probably ok lmao
Those are high BST pokemon for a 3rd gym, but like... I've seen teams with full 6 pokemon with 2-3 at that level of BST as 1st gyms in some harder romhacks
And they were totally doable because the player was given enough things to deal with it
manic kindle
Yeah, its all about your player tools and what the game is asking of you
Even with high BSTs, they could be hampered in other ways, like movepools
arctic dagger
Or it could be Toxic/Wish/Protect/Foul Play with perfect EVs Umbreon
XD
Backed up by a Toxic/Milk Drink/Protect/Body Slam Miltank, and IDK, Calm Mind/Psychic/Psyshock/Something Espeon?
Probably Moonblast
manic kindle
continuing with that thought experiment, i think it'd be interesting ot use Faint Attack over Foul Play to avoid any accuracy shenanigans; if you dont want to double up on toxic, T-Wave on Miltank is annoying, and for Espeon, Trick/Screens/Baton Pass seem fun, esp if it leads, Calm Minds then passes to the other two
pliant violet
Those are high BST pokemon for a 3rd gym, but like... I've seen teams with full...
isn't whitney gym 3
and she's widely regarded as one of the hardest gym leaders in the series
manic kindle
Yeah, Miltank can take some hits
I do like that the game gives you some tools to deal with her
pliant violet
you mean the trade gastly?
manic kindle
The Machop for trade is one part of it, but the two previous gym rewards have strong uses here
Mud Slap makes the miltank's rollout less threatening overall, and a well-timed Fury Cutter start can help chunk or outright kill the Miltank
signal glen
The Celfary can be a pain sometimes. All depends on what Metronome rolls.
pliant violet
also true
I generally think 3rd gyms should have a team of 3
but whitney does not need it
manic kindle
that was something Crystal Legacy did that i really, really enjoyed
mostly in an effort to make sure all johto leaders had a team slightly more focused on johto pokemon
pliant violet
do you know how many new pokemon from johto you cannot catch in johto?
most of them murdoc
manic kindle
i know its tragic
pliant violet
it's why houndoom is a hoenn pokemon in my brain
manic kindle
its why i really like Legacy a lot, i like that it keeps the core experience but you can actually have an all johto-mon team
for the first 3 gyms as minor spoilers, Falkner now has Pidgey+Noctowl, Bugsy has Pineco+Ledian+Scyther, and Whitney has Clefairy+Teddiursa+Miltank
pliant violet
falkner is a really really bad one
manic kindle
and by Whitney you could reasonably have 6+ johto-only pokemon on your team
snow cobalt
i see how it is
signal glen
do you know how many new pokemon from johto you cannot catch in johto?
So we introduced this new type called Dark right? What if we made the players wait until post game to catch them.
pliant violet
that specifically annoys me
also dark should've been a gym leader, not an elite four
signal glen
Assuming of course your Eevee didn't evolve into Umbreon
signal glen
also dark should've been a gym leader, not an elite four
Yeah and like half the team wasn't even Dark type.
It's like the Fire E4 member of Gen 4. It's just his Infernape and maybe a Rapidash.
pliant violet
she does one thing super wrong imo, if you're late game type specialist and you share a type with the region's pseudo legend (and there's no one after you who does), you should use it
lance does it a gen before and steven does it for one of hoenns a gen later
lance, as we all know, is a flying type specialist
manic kindle
Johto does frustrate me design-wise because it is ripe for so much more than what it is at base
manic kindle
which might be why i like Johto a lot as someone who tinkers
oh im not mad or faulting them
i just like improving upon Johto as a design challenge because i think its the region most accessible for improvements from a designer standpoint
foggy mango
Wait Crystal Legacy sounds really good
wispy yarrow
Just the simple fix of making Ghost special and Dark physical
Changes the game so.much
covert saffron
hot take
whitney is not very hard
she is a difficulty spike for the unprepared player
okay what do we think of gyms ditching types, and having themes? good, right?
so what about the first theme, in a kind of rural out in the midst of open countryside, outdoorsy themed first gym, like a town or two away from the starter town?
pokémon would be a vulpix, maybe a yanma, and a (perhaps regional) roselia?
lunar hinge
manic kindle
okay what do we think of gyms ditching types, and having themes? good, right?
s...
ive played pokemon games and ttrpgs with themes over typing, it can be a nice change
covert saffron
allows for better team comp and more interesting aces
manic kindle
subjective but it is a fun change
covert saffron
true
manic kindle
like all of it, it comes down to your game design chops and sense of story
covert saffron
have kind of thematic teams for the gyms, and then base the theming around mechanics for the elite four
languid lichen
allows for better team comp and more interesting aces
it also makes it mostly impossible to prep for them, which was always a draw of pokemon story modes
i'm of the opinion that, if you want to go with themed gyms, you combine the two
keep to themes that involve ~2 types
pokemon uranium is one of the games that i think does it well
there's a ninja gym with a pair of shrine keeper leaders
one with a day theme (three grass types and a flareon), and one with a night theme (three poison types, two of which are dark, and an umbreon as a third dark type)
covert saffron
keep to themes that involve ~2 types
nah because that’s still quite limited
languid lichen
yes, that's the point
it allows for leader breadth
without making it impossible to prepare for them
covert saffron
idk i think i can give eight gym leaders diversity
languid lichen
you can add one or two pokemon to your team if you want to counter them, without having to switch out your entire team because the leader has two fires, a dragon, a grass/ground, a fairy, and a bug/poison
uranium has a "beach" gym, but all the mons are water or grass/ground, with a water/ground to keep the typelines feeling tied to each other
and a "cave" gym, but it's two grounds, a pure poison in the zubat equivalent, and a rock/steel - meaning two things weak to ground
etc.
it broadly leaves openings for you to plan around
they don't cover themselves fully
while still having more diversity than a mainline game
i've got a couple problems with pokemon insurgence, but i also mostly like it, and it does something similar (while pretending that its gyms are monotype)
covert saffron
that’s the thing though, your team should be
- diverse from square one and
- able to be that diverse
i think
for like a fun challenge
languid lichen
the fire leader also has chlorophyll grasses, the bug leader has ghosts, the fairy leader has normals, the steel leader has a couple electrics, etc.
types tied thematically, mechanically, and/or historically to their primary
covert saffron
like if i can assemble a well rounded team by misty in a kanto nuzlocke. hell if i can start to have some solid comp by brock we’re sorted
covert saffron
types tied thematically, mechanically, and/or historically to their primary
yeah that’s cool
i think like
for me it’s like
“seaside” theme
okay so like. klawf, pelipper, dhelmise, palossand, and tentacruel
red rampart
I can understand the drifblim, but why steelix and lopunny
I know there were only like 2 fire types, but there has to have been a couple more pokemon that fit the theme of fire better than those two
umbral hound
...yeah I don't know.
I genuinely think those are the only two fire types available before the postgame in Diamond/Pearl though.
snow cobalt
steel is like, half-fire due to forging associations
except that Steelix specifically has a different theme going on
maybe they worked backwards from "what learns Fire Fang"
languid lichen
I can understand the drifblim, but why steelix and lopunny
I know there were onl...
it was just a really, really bad decision, yeah
there were only two nonlegendary fire types introduced in gen 4
the starter and magmortar
and magmortar wasn't even available
until postgame
so it was just ponyta or starter or bust
the platinum team makes way more sense
umbral hound
also heatran, but that's a legendary
languid lichen
there were only two nonlegendary fire types introduced in gen 4
.
umbral hound
I missed the word "nonlegendary".
languid lichen
there were three legendaries
although this list is even smaller
because arceus is a mythical and wasn't available at all outside of events
and rotom's alt forms weren't their types until gen 5
but his platinum team actually functioned
red rampart
Which is why rotom fly has levitate
languid lichen
ye
red rampart
...run away? They gave his rapidash run away?
languid lichen
yuppers
they all have their first ability
as was standard for the first chunk of pokemon games
sudden spade
Yeah, I'd have gone with different abilities if I was them but if they're also 'default first' that makes sense.
red rampart
RIP
obtuse ravine
maybe they worked backwards from "what learns Fire Fang"
til steelix learns fire fang
pliant violet
I can understand the drifblim, but why steelix and lopunny
I know there were onl...
lopunny matches his hair
arctic dagger
Yeah I think they just went "what can learn decent fire moves"
lunar hinge
God some of the learn sets of pokemon in older gens genuinely baffle me. What do you mean Vivillon only learns to flying moves naturally in gen VI. Gust at level one and Hurricane at 50.
dusk bison
all of flint's pokemon have a "hot" theme, drifblim is a hot air balloon, steelix is hot as in tectonic movements, and lopunny, well that's obvious
dusk bison
God some of the learn sets of pokemon in older gens genuinely baffle me. What do...
it's such a shame as well, compound eyes hurricane vivillon would be fun as hell in the midgame
lunar hinge
I have a compound eyes Scatterbug.
covert saffron
all of flint's pokemon have a "hot" theme, drifblim is a hot air balloon, steeli...
he’s the one officer. right here
lunar hinge
I'm guessing the answer is yes but I should evolve my Kadabra into Alakazam as soon as it evolves yes?
dusk bison
If you want to keep a semblance of the intended game balance, you could delay it to mid 30s
But really, you can just go for it
languid lichen
i mean
kadabra's stats are already basically the same
it gets +15 spatk and speed, but it's already got 120/105
(it also gets other stats but those don't matter)
lunar hinge
I'm playing oras and they literally have the exact same learn set at the same levels except Calm Mind replaces Role Play. Which is not a loss.
dusk bison
it gets +15 spatk and speed, but it's already got 120/105
That's a lot, plus +20spdef at lvl 16 means you can just switch in on anything specially offensive and proceed to nuke them
languid lichen
it would be a lot on any other mon, yes
but kadabra's offensive stats are already cracked
does it like more, and as such want to evolve? yes
does it need bigger numbers to be bonkers? no
evolving doesn't change the paradigm overmuch
you point at things and they die
manic kindle
I'm guessing the answer is yes but I should evolve my Kadabra into Alakazam as s...
yes*
*sometimes i delay my evos till i actually hit a challenge of some kind, if any, or till i start seeing them on opponent teams, just cuz
worldly plume
I havent played a pokemon game in a while
Is evolving certain trade specific pokemon only still doable via trade?
manic kindle
Yep! Outside of the Legends Arceus game as of rn; there they have the Linking Cord
signal glen
I hope they start bringing that to the main line games.
manic kindle
My (un?)popular opinion is that trade evolutions and their similar weirder brethen are important and good for encouraging the kind of socialization the pokemon games/community strives for
near flower
they need to bring back the gts
signal glen
While screwing over people who don't live in densely populated areas or can't pay for NSO.
near flower
for all its faults at the very least i didnt have to know another person in real life to trade with to get my evo guys
i know with the switch games you can go on like. reddit or whatever to find guys to trade with but 1) thats a whole other external step and 2) that means talking (typing) to someone which is like. not the end of the world. but if youre one of those people who gets anxious easily it's something that's difficult to surmount
and like leogon mentioned you gotta pay for NSO. it's not a Lot of money but it's still a barrier
lunar hinge
Actually from Gen 8 onwards they've started showing up as very rare wild pokemon or in raid battles!
And there's some rarer ones from gen 4 onwards, like Gengar in the Old Chateau in gen 4 or the Clamperl evos in black and white.
near flower
yup, was really pleasantly surprised when i encountered some during my scarlet playthrough
lunar hinge
Still they should add the linking cord in mainline, after all trading mostly happens online now a days and those severs won't stay online forever.
near flower
that too!
quick lion
Chat something's wrong with my game
lunar hinge
Is the Ampharos line and the Manectric line having plus and minus as secret abilities supposed to be a sheep sheepdog thing? If so, neat.
umbral hound
Thinking about Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, and I've amused myself with the mental image of a mail-delivery Toedscool (or Toedscruel).
definitely toedscool.
quick lion
LETS FUCKING GO
wild thorn
Finished Indigo Disk and got my kaleidoturtle
cerulean dune
Still they should add the linking cord in mainline, after all trading mostly hap...
Could probably limit it to late/post-game vendors to encourage the trading option at the same time.
lunar hinge
As far as I can tell for the classic style trade trade evos, not like Shelmet and Karrablast, only get increased stats and maybe an additional move you could get from the move reminder. So it be more a pokedex completion/competitive team builder tool.
arctic dagger
Haunter to Gengar is a pretty major upgrade tbh
More so than most of them
That one always pissed me off since Gengar line was like the only ghost type commonly available for it felt like forever
lunar hinge
Yeah. I say they only get increased stats but it's a big increase
languid lichen
funnily enough, haunter in a story playthrough has merits over gengar
ever since gengar got nerfed
pliant violet
Could probably limit it to late/post-game vendors to encourage the trading optio...
or even at like, an expected level point
you know
"oh we expect them to be mid 30's here, they can evolve their trade mons now"
stable wasp
Teting
snow cobalt
NO WAY
wild thorn
Clodsire plushie ordered
snow cobalt
https://smallnico.tumblr.com/post/673032989586964480
concept: a pokemon gym leader who is literally an alien who landed on pokemon earth by accident and she is a normal type gym leader. she really loves normal types she thinks they're just wonderful
lunar hinge
Tera Normal Elgyem or Beheeyem as an ace.
lunar hinge
Nothing about Jangmo-o says it can only be found after doing the trial but I have yet to fucking see one.
soft isleBOT
They're only a 5% encounter unfortunately
lunar hinge
Bagon was one percent and it only took 5 hours! I've been at this for like six!
May geeing jumped by 3 pichu in a row used all my luck for this month.
manic kindle
such is the cruelty of rng...
lunar hinge
LIL GUY
FUCK
CRIT SWIFT.
I am going to cry. I knocked out and I didn't save state before I did.
LIL GAL
CAUGHT
snow cobalt
WOOOOO
lunar hinge
Also god that low quality screenshot I took looks like that one panel of an angry Shadow the Hedgehog.
lunar hinge
Imagine not calling your Solgaleo or Lunala Nebby.
obsidian stump
I feel like we shouldn't have even been given the option to pick something else
It's like traded mons, they already have a nickname
umbral hound
just had a galaxy brained take: Bagon is an Est.
snow cobalt
A what
umbral hound
from fire emblem.
Est is a unit who joins late at a relatively low level, but with high growths, and that's become an archetype.
round perch
arctic dagger
I can't figure out what the one under masquerain even is
round perch
Pukumuku
round perch
Oh, that's how you spell that.
round perch
Pretty sure it's not water.
arctic dagger
arctic dagger
Nah, it gets a ton of poison type stuff though
It's VERY defenisively statted
So it's often using Soak/Toxic
As its offense
Recover/Toxic/Something/Something is standard
Often Taunt, often Protect
Sometimes Screens
Sometimes Pain Split
But the memetic Pyukumuku runs Soak/Toxic to be able to make anything in the game Badly Poisoned that doesn't have an ability to be immune
round perch
Ah.
arctic dagger
I think the only reason it's not poison tbh is because of Toxapex
They're the same generation
Toxapex is MOSTLY just better Pyukumuku
Gets less utility, but gets actual offense, Baneful Bunker, hazards, and Regenerator
spring hedge
https://bsky.app/profile/notamato.bsky.social/post/3kc2fkyooda27
i love the blank expression on legend!chingling
red rampart
https://bsky.app/profile/serebii.bsky.social/post/3llpoucuzcs2s
@stable wasp more Teto
languid lichen
holy shit tetoetta
azure crane
stable wasp
https://bsky.app/profile/serebii.bsky.social/post/3llpoucuzcs2s
<@63490381979241...
Meloetta!
One of my old favorites from one of the animes
azure crane
obtuse ravine
https://bsky.app/profile/motherlatias.pmd.social/post/3llpdbjyoqc26
😌
foggy mango
I understand it that someone here likes checks notes Teto?
snow cobalt
foggy mango
Thanks Step. Probably should've looked for the video 😅
lunar hinge
near flower
fear
(top 10 things you wouldnt want to see late at night)
lunar hinge
I would not want to see the Mike Myer's Cat in The Hat In a brightly lit room with witnesses watching though bulletproof glass, let alone late at night.
azure crane
fickle thicket
Miku ...
trail bridge
I like how the rock type isn't just rock music, which is very creative
languid lichen
i love em, yeah
wild thorn
Yay my Sylveon and Clodsire plushies arrived
languid lichen
nice
pliant violet
how big clod
signal glen
manic kindle
thats fun
soft isleBOT
Yay?
Wait, how much does the switch 2 cost again?
obsidian stump
$449 USD
soft isleBOT
Oh gods
And the original switch cost.... $299 apparently
...we are discovering that switch 2 games apparently cost $80
spring hedge
i partly suspect trump's tariffs are at fault
manic kindle
If you want to speculate, its the mixture of prices stagnating for a while to affect perception on it + wages not keeping up + its only going to get a little harder as life goes on to source the metals/parts for game shit in the world of AI Bitcoin Farming and general limited metals supplies, combined with normal capitalistic namebrand price hiking per generation
spring hedge
fair
manic kindle
im not an economist tho! thats just my guess
signal glen
...we are discovering that switch 2 games apparently cost *$80*
Though odd enough of the two Switch 2 games we know the price of only one of them is 80. The other is 70.
Mario Kart being the 80 and DK being the 70.
obtuse ravine
here are some more
exciting that SV are (hopefully) going to get a performance bump
along with the digital card loading/lending, that'll give me a chance to give gen ix a try (regardless of whether or not I get a switch 2)
obsidian stump
anyone up to help me evolve some pokes in SV? I have 3 trade evos I need to do, as well as the union circle thing for palafin
obsidian stump
just need someone to join union circle with for the palafin evolution now
any help would be appreciated 
iron lake
I understand it that someone here likes *checks notes* Teto?
That would be the @stable wasp in question
stable wasp
I understand it that someone here likes *checks notes* Teto?
I listened to it about 1 hour after release
Satsuki uses 4 mikus per miku, did you know that?
obtuse ravine
iron lake
@glacial ore
soft isleBOT
peak island
crude moon
soft isleBOT
me too Spheal
azure crane
azure crane
obsidian stump
Shaymin is absolutely peak pokemon design
lunar hinge
Literally a hedgehog
fickle thicket
had a dream that they canceled pokemon
all of it
sent the cops to anyone trying to do anything with pokemon
they never told anyone why because the question couldn't be asked because pokemon was canceled
lunar hinge
It was at risk of becoming real.
soft isleBOT
My existence would be illegal! 
soft isleBOT
Gardevoir for me
That’s a hard question D: something from the Cyndaquil line probably, or Zoroark
…I should make Sophia play through a pokemon game 🤔
Absolutely yes
obsidian stump
what is your second favorite pokemon
Either Tinkaton or Ogerpon for me
Probably Tinkaton
lunar hinge
Lokix.
obtuse ravine
That’s a hard question D: something from the Cyndaquil line probably, or Zoroark
😌
hmmm.... maybe Ampharos?
I really wish I had screenshot of my teams from each game on hand :(
signal glen
what is your second favorite pokemon
Probably Roserade.
deft path
what is your second favorite pokemon
Mareanie
languid lichen
pliant violet
Marowak
wild thorn
Clodsire
azure crane
what is your second favorite pokemon
My second favorite is Azumarill.
manic kindle
Graveler :)
umbral hound
what is your second favorite pokemon
...probably either Crobat or Shedinja? But Gastrodon's also up there...
eager vine
what is your second favorite pokemon
armaldo!! or aggron or maybe garchomp or possibly mega altaria
fickle thicket
what is your second favorite pokemon
my first place is tied but my third place is mawile
crude moon
not my second favorite pokemon, but one of my favorite obscure filler pokemon is Yamask
when i was very young i knew there were some kids whose parents didn't let them play pokemon, and i thought that was silly. then I saw Yamask's pokedex entry: Each of them carries a mask that used to be its face when it was human. Sometimes they look at it and cry. and thought "woah, the parents were right! this game is actually dark!"
just casually dropping the lore nuclear bomb of "ghost-type pokemon used to be actual humans", then never mentioning it again outside that one random piece of flavor text
arctic dagger
What?
That's all over the place
Half the ghost type Pokemon used to be dead children lost in the woods or some shit
crude moon
really? huh. i guess i don't pay enough attention to dex entries.
arctic dagger
The litwick line burns people's souls instead of their bodies leaving them technically alive but soulless husks for instance
Phantump is supposed to be the spirit of a child gwho got lost in the forest and died, possessing a stump. It screams in the woods, causing people to also look for the voice and die, despite Phantump just trying to make friends.
"Duskulls's diet consists of the vital energy of children. All victims of Duskull tend to suffer an intense chill after being drained of their life force. "
near flower
no drifloon mention?
arctic dagger
Drifloon kidnaps children yeah
near flower
thats the like no1 ooh scary ghostmon
arctic dagger
I just assumed people knew that one tbh
umbral hound
…thinking about how very trans Penny is again.
wild thorn
…thinking about how very trans Penny is again.
It really is kinda obvious
deft path
That's all over the place
Ang gengar kills people
languid lichen
i appreciate that ghosts have multiple different origins
some are dead humans
some are dead pokemon
some are just Ghost Magic
from The Ghost Dimension
and some are like...curses or ambient malice given form
(so different Ghost Magic)
azure crane
A friend made this https://www.tumblr.com/weefslider/780442522937851904
obtuse ravine
umbral hound
I just realized it took 9 generations of pokemon for them to have a sensibly-dressed Ice-type specialist.
crude moon
do you think bug should be strong against fairy instead of the other way around
personally i strongly think it should
just give the poor bugs a break
soft isleBOT
Fairy existing singlehandedly made steel and poison actually usable offensively right?
crude moon
yeah, because fairy instantly became the best type in the game
honest cairn
i do think bug needs a break, but they have some of the best support moves in the entire game period, sticky web, quiver dance, tail glow
worldly plume
To fairy?
umbral hound
The idea of having certain "weak types" for early-game mons is reasonable.
deft path
To fairy?
Nooo just in general
Bug fills a niche similar to normal type where its primarily weak early game pokemon with specific standouts e.g. volcarona/ursaluna
This is also why bug specifically is weak to one starter type, strong against another, and neutral to the third
To innately get you familiarised with typing interactions
crude moon
you can make the majority of pokemon in the type be weak without crippling the entire type by default
crude moon
This is also why bug specifically is weak to one starter type, strong against an...
also i think it's worth pointing out that you only get one starter
so kids starting the game will be completely unaware of that, and just think "wow the pokemon i chose is so strong" if they happened to pick fire, and "wow the pokemon i chose is so weak" if they happened to pick grass
soft isleBOT
Bug isn’t really, like, crippled though
crude moon
yeah that was an exaggeration
I just don't think there should necessarily be very much power disparity between the types themselves
near flower
i think they should be mutually weak against each other
crude moon
that would be neat
sudden spade
I think normal is really the crippled type right now and that's not really a Deliberate thing.
It's just 'being average at everything' in a game of specialists isn't good
crude moon
being the only type in the game with only one weakness is a pretty alright niche
even though it doesn't do much offensively
sudden spade
While I kinda disagree with that. I think 'weaknesses and strengths' matters more than 'no weaknesses'.
Like even Blissy can't manage it in OU these days.
It was the single OU normal type left and has the most comically 'designed to be good at a specific thing' statline about
This statline can't manage 'special wall' any more due to the typing/there are better walls. XD
Especially since normal's one weakness is one of the widest used offensive coverage types about. XD
Not a whole heap has 'Oh yeah and I'll use Ghost for Coverage' compared to 'Oh yeah and I'll also have Close Combat'
deft path
so kids starting the game will be completely unaware of that, and just think "wo...
water/grass/fire are very commonn in the starting routes
normal is also very good in doubles
chansey sucks
as in, it's really good
and i hate it
manic kindle
Unless youre in a demographic where you can't read at all or read the language your game is in, Pokemon games do a pretty good job of preaching the type triangle early; modern games especially come with it baked in to the UI
so its fine if kids get to learn about what bulbasaur has to experience in viridian forest imo
deft path
Unless youre in a demographic where you can't read at all or read the language y...
my point is that bug is usually your first introduction to typing outside of the triangle
like the way that typing usually develops is starter types -> normal -> bug
manic kindle
oh im agreeing with you
deft path
so you get to see how more interesting type interactions occur
flying usually appears there too
manic kindle
same w/ flying birds early sort of splicing into that as well
deft path
and flying obviously beats bug
again, just kind of intuitively teaching you how to figure stuff out
manic kindle
a lot of pokemon routing, at its best, is [thing that counters] and [thing that counters your counter]
natural little 'ecosystems'
deft path
i think theres only like one game that doesnt do this and its alola
ironically, alola is actually one of the hardest pokemon games to nuzlocke for partially this reason
umbral hound
should I try to brew a reg I team idea on showdown?
I mean, my two mons I kind of want to use as tech choices (Sableye and Gastrodon) aren't really suitable.
Gastrodon counters Urshifu-Rapid Strikes, but Urshifu is no longer The Terror.
I'm almost tempted to look at Zoroark-Hisui.
umbral hound
...I wish Springtide Storm had 100% accuracy in rain like the other storms. It annoys me so much.
languid lichen
...I wish Springtide Storm had 100% accuracy in rain like the other storms. It ...
it also didn't go to 10/16pp
unlike all of the others
umbral hound
yeah... 
languid lichen
also annoying is that wildbolt storm is the only one whose secondary effect isn't 30%
it has a 20% chance to para
(which was changed from 30% in PLA)
umbral hound
Enamorus-T could have had a fun niche in rain trick room but nooo.
obtuse ravine
umbral hound
...I wonder... is there anything to having Galade or Iron Valiant Imprison Wide Guard?
Thinking about a janky set which can Imprison Close Combat, which is good against... uh. Koraidon? Who's most afraid of Koraidon? Calyrex-Ice, who lives in trick room?
it gets to imprison wide guard and dgleam and also use those, but this might be too cute for its own good.
What would you think of a mon whose unique ability was some stat boost (probably speed) with the caveat of being unable to use the same move consecutively?
arctic dagger
Choice Scarf?
Oh wait CAN'T use the same move
Not must
Uhm, my first thought is that on any setup pokemon that's not even a minus
umbral hound
I mean, Galarian Darmanitan got Choice Band as an ability, and that was admittedly very strong.
This would be much less of a downside, but it would still matter sometimes.
arctic dagger
That's the kind of thing I think would be more interesting as an item tbh
Reverse choice items
umbral hound
Would it? Or would it be more interesting if it was a unique niche?
arctic dagger
I think it'd be more interesting as an item but YMMV
With any given pokemon it can only do like, so many things?
As an item people can figure out some really weird things to do with it maybe
Like I can think of it being really good on setup and pivot pokemon just offhand
COme in, use a move, then U-turn out or something
umbral hound
Yeah. There's a lot of pokemon who run choice items who would be fine with this, arguably. Because one move's as good as another, or they plan on switching soon.
It'd be really good on something like incin or rillaboom, depending on what the upside was.
arctic dagger
It might be too generically good though
Because it'd also be really good with like
Anyone with a heal move + protect
umbral hound
I mean, depending on what it does, some mons that could run it might not even want to over leftovers or AV or something.
arctic dagger
True
I'm mostly thinking it has to be worse than choice
And probably worse than just a normal boost
umbral hound
...I think it should have to be an ability so that it doesn't just go onto Ursaluna-Bloodmoon who already can't blood moon consecutively.
And it would be a downside on setup mons, because sometimes they want to click their boosting move more than once, and sometimes they want to go "okay, I'm as boosted as I want to be, I'd like to repeatedly click my Best Attack until everything falls over".
umbral hound
Oh, fair.
languid lichen
I'm mostly thinking it has to be worse than choice
30% speed boost but can't double seems "reasonable" on a setup sweeper, yeah
lunar hinge
THEY'RE ALL SO FUCKING SHAPE
lunar hinge
honest cairn
i think the elemental monkeys are overhated
they are a very middle of the road pokemon tho that doesnt really work as much without being the aces of those 3 triiplet brothers
mellow robin
I think they honestly have a neat subtheme of being connected to cooking, they just didn't really push it too hard
honest cairn
i think that a good fix would be a better ability maybe adaptability extra stab but only after eating a berry they're still slow
crude moon
they practically feel like a parody of lazy pokemon design imo
"pick an animal, give it an element, call it a day"
if there was just one it would be fine
but they don't feel like different variations on the same concept like eevee does, they feel copy and pasted
obsidian stump
It doesn't help that they're incredibly common on trainer teams in B/W
arctic dagger
If they were a mid tier pokemon with an ok theme that evolved at like level 25
It would be FINE
but no one is likely to ever go out of their way to evolve them with a stone
It doesn't help that they're the starter types either
You really love fire types?
You probably already picked the fire type starter
obsidian stump
So people who maybe just don't like them a little bit are going to be pushed towards much stronger feelings on the matter by having to fight the damn things all the time
arctic dagger
True.
IDK at least they're whatever to fight against
Not really any particularly awful moves IMO
For me it's just annoying they're the starters but worse in most ways
crude moon
they're just the most filler-feeling pokemon ever, by a lot
crude moon
most of the generic-feeling common pokemon, like Raticate or Houndoom, have some charm and personality
arctic dagger
Luvdisc literally only exists so you can farm Heart Scales off of it
Luvdisc is cute tho' at least
Like it makes a decent plushie
The monkeys aren't even cute really
crude moon
exactly
like I don't mean in terms of how strong they are mechanically. giving a pokemon high stats doesn't make it a good design
arctic dagger
I'm trying to think of a duo or trio I like less
Seviper/Zangoose is close
But they're thematically kinda interesting as the mongoose/viper even if it didn't pay off
And Toxic Boost is actually cool
snow cobalt
but they don't feel like different variations on the same concept like eevee doe...
Not really
arctic dagger
Aw I like Seel.
arctic dagger
Well, I like Dewgong
snow cobalt
i think making a counterpart trio to the starters was a valid niche to try once
arctic dagger
Sure but they suck at it IMO
crude moon
but they're not a trio
arctic dagger
They are definitely a trio, what?
snow cobalt
What
crude moon
they're one pokemon with the color wheel shifted
snow cobalt
no
crude moon
it would've been rad if they were a counterpart trio
arctic dagger
They're there as the other pokemon that can learn the Grass/Water/Fire pledge
That aren't starters
crude moon
like, grass otter, water pig, fire snake
arctic dagger
Ok you've lost me here. The whole point of them is that they're all monkeys.
And they actually look pretty different when volved
They look a lot more similar in their base forms
But the evolved versions actually look pretty different
snow cobalt
they're also referencing the hear/see/speak no evil monkeys
arctic dagger
That could be done a lot more clearly TBH
It's a bit more clear in the sprites for the preevos
snow cobalt
I don't need them to be especially obvious about it, the point i'm making is that there was thought put into having them all be monkeys
arctic dagger
But like, the evos the only one that keeps something like that is Simipour keeping its eyes closed
I think they could have given them abilities related to that or something
Justified on Pansage, Soundproof on Pansear...
IDK what on Simipour
But they just all have Gluttony
Like don't get me wrong, they're still... Not good.
There's a lot of room for improvement.
But they're not pointless and there is thought put into them.
Imagine if all 3 had Unaware
XD
Yeah I think I'd give them Justified for Speak No Evil, Soundproof for Hear No Evil, and Unaware for See No Evil
Could also see like, Inner Focus for See No Evil
Speak No Evil I'm not sure about being Justified I just couldn't think of anything better
I could see Defiant
A lot of the moves that lower your stats are talking to you
pliant violet
I think they honestly have a neat subtheme of being connected to cooking, they j...
they've also got the see no hear no and speak no subtheme
wild thorn
hell yeah got cfw onto my old 3ds, might be able to rescue my Gen 6/7 mons