well with tron thats 4
#DOTA 2
cursive wing
mi wile e lape
stark linden
is that a yes or a no
olive moon
What were you playing against?
steel forge
Towers, mostly
paper shell
Towers, mostly
this is such a good answer lol
steel forge
I am realising in retrospect that sounded very "oh the enemy team did nothing" but really it was meant to be that I got crimson guard for towers (and void, a little)
steel forge
oh I think I've figured it out @viscid tapir, I didn't have smart attack move on, so my controlled units would just target whatever was closest to them when the command was issued, rather than the closest thing to my cursor
glossy stratus
Smart attack move?
viscid tapir
attack move targets nearest to where the order it's given, rather than nearest to the commanded unit
glossy stratus
Iiiiinteresting
I probably won't switch because that would throw off so much habit, but that's a nice option to exist
reef parcel
smart attack move is really cool
it's one of the modern dota features I don't use, but I'm glad it exists
I find there's a lot of value in being able to attack move, like, 'down a lane'
and know units will kill everything as they go
steel forge
I think the default is probably really intuitive to people who have played many other rtses, but dota being kinda the only real one I play/have played, it's just the opposite to both what I would expect and how I was using attack move
glossy stratus
Yeah, the default is what you want if you're stutterstepping marines, but it's not ideal a lot of the time in Dotaland
steel forge
it does explain a lot of the unintented behaviour I was having, mainly trying to convince controlled creeps to focus the ranged creep first while pushing the lane
olive moon
Anyone gonna be playing in an hour or so?
pearl chasm
What was happening with Meepo that caused him to get removed?
reef parcel
What was happening with Meepo that caused him to get removed?
tons of bugs
pearl chasm
Lovely
reef parcel
there was an item duplication bug and a bug where you could give your Meepos all an undroppable rapier
light urchin
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797973591308107846/1258141638287556618/im...
LMAO
meepon't
glossy stratus
Considering another item duplication bug was being abused hours after they patched the first, probably for the best they removed him for now
glossy stratus
Anyone gonna be playing in an hour or so?
Not 'till later for me
viscid trout
Towers, mostly
you are so right, I played a game as axe and diving towers with glyph is basically suicide without it
olive moon
im glad no one said yes, i fell asleep as soon as i got back
someone ping me if theres a game
reef parcel
<@&877973728997294120> hey folks anyone wanna dota. me and arjun and jenny are around
viscid tapir
sure!
reef parcel
that's 4
gritty sparrow
I will spectate as I do work
reef parcel
okay!
paper shell
I could probably play
viscid tapir
waking up ;_;
stark linden
viscid tapir
ah, dota has concluded
I could probably hop back on for round two
glossy stratus
If a stack gets going I could hop on as well
I'm kind of just staring blankly at my screen
steel forge
I am indeed still awake
delicate jungle
@glossy stratus @viscid tapir e
<@&877973728997294120> need 1 maybe 2 more
nvm
@viscid tapir ah, sorry tom we got off
delicate jungle
its ok
paper shell
steel forge
yeah I'm not sure what's going on
viscid tapir
some real philosophy going on in this Acceptable (2) Dota match
noble tusk
you just disrespected dota and me
paper shell
Wild
2 cant steal from 3
Its basic dota
He'd be suprised whats actually basic and what isn't
viscid tapir
sorry Tron, you got the abandon
paper shell
rip tron
steel forge
@viscid tapir yeah I'm really sorry, my internet dropped
viscid tapir
understandable
steel forge
oh hey you won anyways
nice
also, I would agree except that if anywhere in the country my internet shouldn't drop, you'd think it'd be here
alas
fun games though, thanks for playing :)
paper shell
Hope the abandon wasn't a low prio sending one
steel forge
It was unranked and only the one so I can't imagine it was
paper shell
whew
glossy stratus
But the important question, are you still at 12k bs?
steel forge
somehow yes
glossy stratus
<@&877973728997294120> anyone for a midday dote in, say, 20 mins?
stark linden
working 
viscid tapir
I could
steel forge
my internet has been more stable, so maybe
reef parcel
oooh I'd love to watch
steel forge
unrelated question (save to dota in general) how does windrunner itemise against blade mail?
glossy stratus
Satanic
cursive wing
satanic allows you to lifesteal for more than the damage reflected most of the time, bkb provides debuff immunity which prevents you from taking reflected damage
glossy stratus
Aghs if you don't already have it
cursive wing
aghanim's sceptre also gives you massive additional phys damage reduction while windrunning, which helps but will not save you vs a centuar with blademail
viscid tapir
i think bkb is the first answer
glossy stratus
Since damage reflection is the same type, it reduces the physical by like 60%
Does debuff immunity completely stop damage reflect, or did that change with magic immunity changes?
viscid tapir
it stops reflected damage
olive moon
yeah debuff imunity stops blademail 100%
cursive wing
the stops reflected daamge was added when they changed it to debuff immunity
viscid tapir
this was unfortunate for me to learn
glossy stratus
Tragic, more times when bkb is the correct option 
steel forge
bkb does indeed often do that
also, I will keep that in mind (we won before I ever actually had to worry about it)
glossy stratus
Also as WR often the best answer to Blademail is to Focus Fire someone else
She's really good at running past their frontline and removing their 1 or mid
steel forge
I did try that mostly, but they had a lot of blade mails on heroes I wanted to kill
and invoker was pretty decent at deafening me and then going invis
Really fun hero though, greatly enjoyed the WR
I did also kill myself on blademail via glepnir which was really embarrassing
glossy stratus
A classic
olive moon
and invoker was pretty decent at deafening me and then going invis
bkb and dust solves that one too
olive moon
@steel forge what a hook dodge
olive moon
i love dark seer
cursive wing
good news i dont have botulism
viscid tapir
hooray
reef parcel
<@&877973728997294120> hey guys me and till and alex wanna do some dota
looking for 2 players
delicate jungle
ye
glossy stratus
Ooh, Dota
reef parcel
yeah I think we got our fifth haha
olive moon
wanna make a second stack @paper shell @cursive wing
cursive wing
yes
cursive wing
paper shell
has the other party dissolved?
manic nimbus
Yes
gritty sparrow
@viscid tapir Btw you were right, if you morph into a rubick that has stolen waveform, and then use the stolen waveform you got, it gets your talents
However
Your normal waveform goes on cooldown
So it doesn't matter
paper shell
Very cool
steel forge
honestly I've seen some very impactful snot rocket bristles
I think it's bad but the hero also kinda just has two bad facets so
scepter slowing everyone into oblivion is really annyoing
viscid trout
I've been a proponent of nasal goo bristle a long time
it's one of his underrated skills
steel forge
nasal goo is great
viscid trout
level 1 goo is enough to kill with a good support with right clicks
steel forge
nasal goo replacing the auto quills is a lot less good
viscid trout
eh, how much did they really contribute though? he just gets aghs and does his new active ability to kill people
steel forge
I mean, the auto quills are kinda what let bristle just spell lifesteal through a lot
but that's also not that great
viscid trout
wasn't that nerfed also, the whole spell lifesteal tank angle
steel forge
It seems less good now but honestly I don't know what they nerfed if they did nerf something
I'm interested to try snot rocket bristle
gritty sparrow
oh nice, something impossible to get without the other facet
There are a lot of challenges and hero gems that just are defunct now
Something that clearly hasn't been updated in a while
glossy stratus
<@&877973728997294120> ping
glossy stratus
Dota is crashing my steam whenever it tries to launch, so it might be a couple mins for me
paper shell
glossy stratus
( @paper shell @gritty sparrow did either of you actually want in?)
paper shell
I can’t play I’m on a road trip
glossy stratus
Ooh, road trip
paper shell
I just wanted to show off my io ping emote
stark linden
lol
glossy stratus
We also can't play for unclear reasons, so you're definitely not missing anything
gritty sparrow
( <@202205159357546498> <@142842792564097025> did either of you actually want in...
I was playing Deadlock, sorry. I could possibly if the dota queues fix themselves though
reef parcel
<@&877973728997294120> me and jenny and till wanna dota, anyone wanna join us?
glossy stratus
I can Dote
steel forge
I'm game
however I am happy to give my seat to a more veteran player if the stack desires such
cursive wing
i don't think the PA from that game was actually guardian
the consistency of their farm throughout the game just isn't indicative
i think it's probably an alt
glossy stratus
I'm pretty skeptical of that, she did not play very well
steel forge
you can know how to farm well and still lack other skills that end up dragging you down
I've certainly played with plenty of people in my bracket who are in that position
gritty sparrow
Knowing how to farm but not how to play dota was me being stuck in pos1 for my first days of playing after transitioning from league
glossy stratus
She also really didn't farm all that well, 700gpm is pretty far behind expected considering how much of a stomp bottom was
steel forge
okay I am so baffled as to how ogre's multicast actually works
namely since it seems to break the range of abyssal blade's stun?
glossy stratus
Item multicasts get a 600 range bonus
steel forge
Once more, I love to put things in tooltips
that's not even in the alt one
thanks lol
glossy stratus
Yep, Ogre loves a Midas
viscid tapir
namely since it seems to break the range of abyssal blade's stun?
this was so much funnier when Abyssal blade had a blink-strike component
Ogre Magi omnislashing across your entire team
steel forge
excellent
glossy stratus
Now I want to see Ogre Hurricane Pike
light urchin
no 💚
steel forge
what is it with people saying the most toxic stuff imaginable and then asking to be commended
like, does it give some kind of numbers boost to your account or something?
viscid tapir
there is theoretically a number attached to your account
idk if it actually improves behavior score
also there's a chance commending at the end gives 4 commends to that number
because commending used to have 4 categories, but when upgrading to source 2 there's just one commend button
steel forge
I see
reef parcel
lost flame had a patch this morning where holding alt shows you the details of all your status effecs
the dota hegemony cannot be stopped
viscid tapir
<@&877973728997294120> anyone up for some defending of the ancients?
steel forge
I could defend an ancient
viscid tapir
well that makes 5
stark linden
waiting on ash to confirm
reef parcel
I'm definitely in
I think till is in too but he's not responding
Probably stuck getting a shower or something
Okay he says free in 5
glossy stratus
If y'all are still Dota-ing when I'm home in... 2 hours or so I'll be game :p
olive moon
reef parcel
delicate jungle
<@&877973728997294120> need one more
manic nimbus
hmmm
viscid tapir
lol
glossy stratus
Well, I should be home in about 20-25
glossy stratus
Oh btw @delicate jungle a useful trick on Venge: If you click the hero portraits at the top of the screen you can swap without potentially misclicking
(Since it can be real hard to click someone when they're getting jumped)
glossy stratus
Finished up Act 2, just days before June 39th
reef parcel
Oh btw <@175657360495214592> a useful trick on Venge: If you click the hero port...
Oh related trick you can see me use in all my streams - when I'm being jumped I spam box on my hero portrait at the bottom
Can't fuck it up
Especially when you're being turned into a chicken and tossed and tornadoed and all that stuff
manic nimbus
yeah its something I need to get better at tbh
glossy stratus
Btw @viscid tapir I'm watching LGD vs Entity and they're running Bodyguard Marci + Snapfire, it looks very solid
manic nimbus
huh makes sense
tbh we could do some group watches or analysis sometime mgiht be fun
glossy stratus
That could be interesting
reef parcel
I'd love that
glossy stratus
@reef parcel PA thoughts, now that I'm not distracted by being in-game:
The reason I dislike Methodical in fights is that PA is a hero who relies on her burst potential, she really wants to jump in and remove her target, and Methodical ensures your damage is relatively back-loaded compared to the default. It also removes her ability to fish for crits, which I agree was a poor way to play her before they added Deadly Focus - waiting to see if a dagger crits then going in meant they had as much notification as you did, but Deadly Focus changes that equation in a major way, since you get to say "hey, team, I've got a crit primed, if I see an opportunity in the next 10 seconds I'm going in", and as long as you're Blurred the enemy team doesn't have that information. With a primed crit in particular, you're more likely than not to get two crits significantly earlier than you would get a single crit with Methodical (you've got a ~50% chance to have re-primed your crit after your Dagger + first attack), which is huge when you're jumping in and trying to pop them before they get Graved/Euls/Swapped/Glimmered/etc, especially if you have Aghs and you want to jump in > kill > blur > jump out before they can counterinitiate.
On the other hand, which probably balances out that entire pontification, Methodical is excellent for farming, particularly early on, and it turns out that's huge for PA.
(Also, I think Methodical is probably required vs Pango)
reef parcel
also methodical straight up does more damage
I'm okay with delaying her damage by like a second if she does that much more damage
also, I think there's a hard to describe layer of strategy here where... consistency is good
in almost every competitive game I play, consistency trumps theoretical fanciness
being in a fight and knowing that if I do x, y, z the enemy will die... that's valuable in a way that's hard to summarize
paper shell
Yeah but you need pas damage to be front loaded
Because you jump a backline hero and kill then before the enemy can react
If you jump a shadow shaman and he doesn’t die immediately, you die
reef parcel
there's no guarantee first strike coup de grace kills the shadow shaman outside of some specific white room scenarios either
and you should really be jumping in with a bkb
or an abyssal
or when the shaman's abilities are on cooldown
paper shell
I think for pa specifically the kill in 2 hits sometimes or 6 hits sometimes is better than always kill in 4 hits
reef parcel
I think it's fine tbh, it happens in like one second and the enemy is omega slowed
paper shell
Imo pa isn’t scary as a support unless she’s essentially one shotting me, because I can always itemize around her otherwise
Like if pa jumps me and I have time to ghost sceptre then it was a bad jump
glossy stratus
I'm okay with delaying her damage by like a second if she does that much more da...
In theory yes, but in practice it takes so many hits to actually outperform the expected damage from veiled one it's pretty irrelevant
glossy stratus
there's no guarantee first strike coup de grace kills the shadow shaman outside ...
Except that's what Deadly Focus is for, it very specifically does guarantee this
glossy stratus
Ohh yeah that's 100% true
TBH if you're oneshotting anyone you're far enough ahead the game is trivial with either facet
reef parcel
imo if people are building their PA strategies around the hope that you're gonna oneshot them when it's still anyone's game, that's bad strategy
yes exactly
you may just jump in, crit them, they're not dead, now you're fucked
glossy stratus
I do agree about consistency being valuable, I'm just not a fan of it in this case, because it's consistently slow, rather than consistently on-tier
reef parcel
like you should honestly build for a certain amount of sustained fighting
glossy stratus
Mmmmm, kind of, but PA is a very bursty core, and the difference between "kills in 3 hits" and "kills in 6" is big
She's not a carry that wants to stick in fights, at least until she gets her aghs
reef parcel
sure, and sometimes you get the perfect opportunity but you just don't have deadly focus
or you have deadly focus and it's a wonky time but you have to figure out if it's worth exploiting it or not
consistency is consistency, it means I can just reactively go, on anyone any time
I value that
glossy stratus
sure, and sometimes you get the perfect opportunity but you just don't have dead...
Yep, but the thing is she's still exceptionally likely to get her damage out faster in that case
reef parcel
I don't think it's exceptionally likely, and it's a risk reward curve that's not great
glossy stratus
I don't actually know how Dota PRNG affects that, I should investigate
reef parcel
like I didn't play PA before this patch because of all the "damn I wish I'd critted at all, guess I died" moments
guess I die is a big deal for a farmed carry
if you kill the support 5 times out of 6 and "guess I die" that last 1/6 times, that's actually just bad
like the 5 support kills are not worth it
in my experience properly playing around prng stuff like bashes etc involves playing compact and not gambling
let opportunities come and have an exit strategy always
glossy stratus
It is, but the other thing is, if you're not having a bad game, 6 non-crit hits are enough to kill a support
reef parcel
the white room "but what if you burst them???" thing is like, illusory
glossy stratus
Methodical is really nice for the core-to-core duels
glossy stratus
the white room "but what if you burst them???" thing is like, illusory
Okay, no, I disagree strongly with this
PA having a 50% chance to dagger/jump/hit/crit and remove a hero before spells can be cast to save them is a significant part of what makes her strong
Methodical being picked proves it's not crucial, but Methodical also comes with a huge farm boost
Like, being able to go in, and only needing to pop BKB if you're not lucky, gives you a lot more freedom than having to commit your 60s CD every time you spot an opportunity
And BKB doesn't help against saves, or give you the Aghs refresh, or give any of the other options the burstier build does
I think I would be happy with Methodical if it triggered on like, attacks 4/10/16/etc
So you're still delaying your expected damage somewhat, just not as much
paper shell
This all being said if you value the consistency in how you play pa with methodical. Then that is just how you like to play PA and it is what it is
glossy stratus
Oh, yeah, it's absolutely a reasonable choice to make to play, and it comes with such a huge upside I expect it's also the higher win% facet
paper shell
Oh, yeah, it's absolutely a reasonable choice to make to play, and it comes with...
its not
glossy stratus
What's it look like in pro games though? Because pub PAs are... pub PAs
glossy stratus
I think D2PT might have it? Let me check
glossy stratus
Not entirely surprising, pros value farm, especially early farm
Pretty sad winrate overall there though
I suppose that's what happens when you lose your invis and a chunk of evasion
While everyone else gets buffed
glossy stratus
I'm curious how much it would change things if Methodical still let you attack creeps while Blurred
paper shell
except V-Tune
Interestingly V-Tune does have one of the higher win rates
glossy stratus
Only 8 matches, not really enough for stats unfortunately
paper shell
Yeah only pros is a much much smaller sample size
glossy stratus
Ohh I didn't realize that top area is including high-MMR matches
That's annoying
164/183 matches took Methodical, with a 51.83% winrate
19 matches on Veiled One, with a 63.16% winrate, but also low statistical significance
V-Tune is almost half of the Veiled One games lol
reef parcel
glancing back at this channel, I think I made my point and also I think the data doesn't dramatically contradict me
I'm gonna keep picking methodical
paper shell
Yeah
reef parcel
I know why I do it and I would be unsurprised if all the pros do it for similar reasons
glossy stratus
Yeah, absolutely. I get your point, and don't think it's a bad pick
paper shell
I do want to know what V-tune specifically takes it now
glossy stratus
Though I'm pretty sure they pick it for farm
paper shell
What to they know that other pros don’t
glossy stratus
I just personally much prefer the other one, with how I play PA
reef parcel
I wanna also note that like, the coup de grace base proc rate is 16%
in prng that's 5% on first hit
like with prng it's exceptionally rare to get the lucky hits people kinda assume are gonna happen in games one in six times or whatever
glossy stratus
Oh interesting, good to know that PRNG hits it that hard
reef parcel
yeah that's prng
prng means being very unlucky is extremely extremely unlikely
but it also makes being very likely extremely extremely unlikely
it's designed so that a 1/6 chance is by and large gonna hit on the 6th hit
so in reality a prng PA is actually hitting on hits 5-7 every time
and methodical means you hit on... 6
every time
glossy stratus
like with prng it's exceptionally rare to get the lucky hits people kinda assume...
With PA specifically, it's a bit different, because you go in with thrown dagger + blink strike, which bumps the PRNG a lot higher, but lower than I expected
reef parcel
if you wanna fish with dagger, that's a 33% chance you get lucky and get your buff
otherwise you just miss your opportunity
glossy stratus
(It's 17% and 34%, to nitpick)
reef parcel
With PA specifically, it's a bit different, because you go in with thrown dagger...
no I think dagger is flat distribution?
glossy stratus
I thought it still uses PRNG? But I'm not sure
reef parcel
dagger is flat distribution
it's a true 1/3
so you see your opportunity, you throw the dagger... one in three times you get to jump in and get your instant crit
the other two times, you just don't
glossy stratus
Oh, that's annoying, the page on PA claims Coup de Grace uses PRNG, and dagger's crit is on CdG
reef parcel
oh okay maybe I just don't know and I'm going off bad data
hard to say with the wiki
glossy stratus
Yeah, when the wiki disagrees with itself, who knows :\
viscid trout
just casually reading this convo, and wiki is not up to date in some places fwiw (fandom wiki that is, and liquidpedia is VERY out of date)
reef parcel
all my prior points about consistency vs human evaluation of the power of randomness do still apply and are my core motivations
glossy stratus
so you see your opportunity, you throw the dagger... one in three times you get ...
(Personally, I usually jump while the dagger is in midair, gives them less time to respond, but means you don't get to fish with that)
(If I'm going in, not just harassing)
glossy stratus
just casually reading this convo, and wiki is not up to date in some places fwiw...
As a heads up, Liquipedia has the dota2 wiki and the dota2game wiki, the latter's supposed to be the "current" wiki
glossy stratus
all my prior points about consistency vs human evaluation of the power of random...
Yep, I think we both get each other's positions, they just happen to differ
And Dota supporting playing different styles based on preference is what makes it such a fun game
I should try playing more Methodical TBH
I tend to play a fighty PA, but that's a lot less viable nowadays
reef parcel
I recommend trying it out
but yeah it's a very different style
like there's one thing you lose with methodical PA that hasn't been brought up and I do think is like, a proper value loss
and that's critting on dagger
methodical PA essentially never crits with the dagger
but with veiled one you can get the buff and then throw a dagger to get a basher proc on someone
that is for sure extremely extremely good
glossy stratus
I'm actually curious about getting a reasonably-fast Khanda on Methodical specifically for that
reef parcel
in terms of gimmicky stuff, something I have considered is like
getting the talent that reduces the methodical charge threshold to 4 and then getting that sword that duplicates your attack
would that mean 4 hits every time on dagger + blink?
glossy stratus
methodical PA essentially never crits with the dagger
I think this really hits the 25 triple-strike Dagger talent
glossy stratus
would that mean 4 hits every time on dagger + blink?
Echo Sabre? It doesn't cause you to double hit on Dagger, unfortunately
reef parcel
no exactly
so
when you're in methodical, dagger creates 2 charges
so you dagger, you blink, echo saber procs on your actual blink
that's 4 hits
glossy stratus
Oh, gotcha
reef parcel
that's deterministic crit if you take the other level 25 talent
it means you always always crit on your own terms
glossy stratus
I used to sometimes get Echo Sabre on PA, but I don't think it's worthwhile nowadays, since you get so much attack speed of Phantom Strike anyway
glossy stratus
Mhm, it does depend a lot on what you're against
If I'm playing into a strong save I care a lot more about the difference in TTK than I do against anyone else
Dazzle into PA can be really sad when she kills you during the cast time of Shallow Grave
But yeah, for Echo Sabre specifically I think you lose a lot of the bonus attack speed to the attack speed cap nowadays
reef parcel
yeah it's a gimmick for sure
glossy stratus
Khanda is interesting, because while crits on PA are theoretically lower-value than usual
She's the hero with the built-in crit that gets the most value out of them
And it works so well with Dagger
It also works well with the full initiation
Throw Dagger, Blink in, proc Khanda, Dagger hits right as the slow from Khanda wears off, slowing again
Hard to fit it in your item build though
gritty sparrow
I feel like Khanda is a whole lot of money for someone that doesn't use the stats on it very well
PA feels so tight for all the items you want on her
Like the cost of that is a whole Satanic
viscid tapir
Yeah, when the wiki disagrees with itself, who knows :\
bit late, but the fandom wiki I'm pretty sure is out of date and maybe just being vandalized with misinformation?I know they announced moved over to liquipedia
glossy stratus
I actually think she likes the stats a lot
gritty sparrow
Or an abyssal
glossy stratus
But yeah, Abyssal is the point of comparison for me
Rare to have a game where you'd prefer it, though I think not unheard of
gritty sparrow
If I saw my pa build a khanda before buying a bkb I would just click Avoid Player
viscid tapir
and that's why I won't leave the party until we're done with the post game >:)
glossy stratus
If I saw my pa build a khanda before buying a bkb I would just click Avoid Playe...
Okay, that's just strawmanning
There's a difference between "this item is situationally good" and "you should buy this item before PA's single absolutely required item"
glossy stratus
bit late, but the fandom wiki I'm pretty sure is out of date and maybe just bein...
Liquipedia has the same conflict in this case, unfortunately
viscid tapir
huh
paper shell
I literally don’t trust any fandom wiki for anything in this day and age
viscid trout
shout-out to indiewiki Firefox extension to block fextra and fandom
glossy stratus
<@&877973728997294120> Sunday evening stack?
delicate jungle
I’ve gotta do some other stuff rq but may be able to hop in
glossy stratus
Darn Bane
steel forge
I am unfortunately in the hinterlands
stark linden
If we can get a five stack, I'm down for a game
Otherwise it's a bit late and I don't want to deal with a random
viscid trout
yeah I'm down
reef parcel
I'm around!
serene arrow
oh lol she woke up
viscid tapir
i was just hopping in to say hi
olive moon
im trying to gaslight people into playing an inhouse but theyre all leaving :(
willow topaz
team rapiers vs team dagons
paper shell
Now we're talking
viscid tapir
that seems wildly team Dagon favored
paper shell
paper shell
I miss hood of defiance
steel forge
okay I need reccomendations for a mechanically interesting pos 1
because goodness every hero I've played in that position is very boring except slark but I also don't find slark fun
serene arrow
(damn, and here I love boring heroes because they make it easier to focus on everything else about the game)
reef parcel
okay I need reccomendations for a mechanically interesting pos 1
does pl count?
viscid trout
maybe TA or Monkey King?
reef parcel
monkey king lets you jump from tree to tree
steel forge
PL seems really bad, but I might give him a try
reef parcel
muerta gives you those trickshots
steel forge
monkey king's a good call actually, I should give him a try
viscid trout
simian stride is very fun
viscid trout
actually, it gives you 0.2 seconds of invulnerability
so you can use it like Puck phase shift
when people try to harass you in lane, if you cast it at the right time it cancels the attack order
you also can bully melee offlaners really hard with a good support, but you yourself are a squishy target
terse totem
okay I need reccomendations for a mechanically interesting pos 1
Meepo unironically
viscid trout
other tips are if you trade with jingu and proc it, try and save boundless strike to hit the wave and the hero so you can get up to full
reef parcel
violet is right
you can play meepo as pos 2
but they're absolutely a viable pos 1 with hideously deep mechanics
terse totem
I've played meepo a lot as both, and frankly meepo mid is pos 1 in disguise anyway
reef parcel
yeah agreed
terse totem
But yeah works great safelane
reef parcel
they're a weird variant pos 2 that uses the boosted exp to transition faster into a crazed pos 1
that takes all the farm everywhere forever
terse totem
It's hard to find more mechanical depth than meepo
steel forge
I think I'm going to try monkey king out; meepo is well beyond my micro skill atm
viscid trout
training wheels for meepo: lone druid and visage, perhaps?
reef parcel
arc warden
terse totem
I think I'm going to try monkey king out; meepo is well beyond my micro skill at...
There's only one way to get better!
steel forge
as I said, atm lol
terse totem
Haha, yeah, fair
steel forge
I do think trying arc warden or lone druid first is probably a good bet
terse totem
Honestly, Meepo's not so bad, but you need to have some important keybinds set up first:
- Select all units
- Select all units other than primary hero
- Select hero
- Ability to cycle units (tab by default)
Once you've got those you don't really need to do too much fancy
delicate jungle
PL seems *really* bad, but I might give him a try
Is pl really that bad?
Your perception may be warped by me playing pl badly
terse totem
Brood and Naga would be some other 'deep mechanics' suggestions
steel forge
I have maybe played with or against one PL total who has impacted the game in a good way for their team
it's certainly warped by my skill bracket but
terse totem
god, I'm looking back to when I decided to actually learn Meepo(tm) and it was rough before it got better :P
glossy stratus
I have maybe played with or against one PL total who has impacted the game in a ...
Apparently I only play PL when you're not in the stack
But no, he's absolutely a solid core rn
Weaver is pretty fun, not necessarily complex mechanically but certainly mechanically interesting
Windrunner is also a delight to play, and shackle is one of those skills that impacts positioning in fascinating ways
TA has a lot of unique mechanics, and Psi Blades in particular has a sky-high skill ceiling
steel forge
But no, he's absolutely a solid core rn
Ill take your word for it lol
viscid tapir
okay I need reccomendations for a mechanically interesting pos 1
I choose to believe this is related
paper shell
I just saw and thought the same thing
steel forge
sadly no
glossy stratus
Don't let your memes be dreams
Be the basher drow you've always known you could be
paper shell
Another cool item build has dropped
paper shell
glossy stratus
<@&877973728997294120> anyone for a stack in 15ish minutes?
viscid trout
yee
viscid tapir
i'm in
viscid trout
gonna take a quick bio break, but I'll be on in a couple of minutes
paper shell
viscid trout
paper shell
viscid trout
ember smelly
tom got initiated on three times, and I counter-cursed three times
sadly my greed with the blink dagger pick up was for naught, should've gotten a force or something
my hit rate with curse was like ... 5-3
this hero is one of my favorites, but maybe I should've played something other than her if I wanted to be an initiating support
winning lane kinda important, so maybe veno
glossy stratus
That was maybe a good Venge game? Aggro swap/defensive swap were both very good, and she's a solid laner
But TBH I was pretty happy you were playing WW, not all the curses were ideal but enough were
viscid trout
my experience with her in lane is she doesn't have a a way to sustain harass
glossy stratus
And you were very effective in lane
viscid trout
unless your heroes are willing to just slam nukes on the enemy offlaner every time they show
and just make them afraid to lane
glossy stratus
Mostly you just wave of terror and slap them
viscid trout
yeah I just was trying to keep the SB from hitting you, but I didn't have a way to stop the WR shenanigans
glossy stratus
You did excellently in lane
Did just enough to keep WR off me that I got to absolutely demolish her in CS
And defanged that SB completely
viscid trout
yeah this was probably a lane where I can't leave your side
glossy stratus
Yeah, SB WR is a lane you never get to depart from as a 5
Because they can just kill anyone
viscid trout
you dodged so many attempts at stunning you
worked out pretty well, holding your doppelganger
glossy stratus
PL vs SB is a matchup where you just get one point in Doppel and never get stunned again, there was I reason I picked PL there
Er, never get stunned in lane, he still charges through you in fights
viscid trout
probably not gonna play wyvern more, too often I feel like my effectiveness plateaus in the midgame
and her damage isn't stunning when you curse and Q someone
glossy stratus
I feel like that was a game where your effectiveness was a lot higher than you realized
WW is like Enigma, in that having your skill off cooldown constrains how they play in a major way
It makes it extremely dangerous for them to try to dive a T2, or hunt a hero when they don't know where the rest of us were
viscid trout
HMM, pos 5 enigma 👀
glossy stratus
It's been done, I think
Okay, yeah, I'm pretty sure your WW play in lane won us that game
At 10 minutes:
There's a few other supports that could have exerted the same pressure, but not many
Like, WD with Festeration, probably
gritty sparrow
HMM, pos 5 enigma 👀
Also this can work well if you learn to deny with the eidolons well. The main problem is you ideally want a 3 that doesn't mind the lane being pushed far up
gritty sparrow
He thankfully like, can take farm other people wouldn't want. The eidolons can solo camps. But your mid is gonna be a bit pissed if the side camps they need to fall on when their tower goes down are just gone and these little purple men are standing in its place
Alternatively you are right in I remember having an enigma support and they produced what I just remember as the "Hoodwink effect" of
"Huh, I can't seem to get any lane creeps. I wonder why the lanes are all pushed up constantly"
Watches my hoodwink go to their side of the map just to Q a wave with gleipnir and scurry off
"Oh."
paper shell
As an enigma player. Yeah this is the main problem with enigma
That and you can do kinda just want to be farming your blink and then bkb/linkers anytime hole is down
You certainly can be a 5 but I think it’s most effective when they can’t contest your idleone well in lane
Also happy June 39th everyone 🙂
paper shell
<:CryingCool:740397299494027344> this hero is one of my favorites, but maybe I s...
I think wyvern was a great pick that game.
I think lark touched on why nicely there. You weren’t really our initiator because our team didn’t want an initiator really. Instead your were our don’t initiate on us deterrent
glossy stratus
Also happy June 39th everyone 🙂
Happy June 39th! Did anyone check to make sure they specified 2024...?
viscid trout
yeah fair point on not initiating, just existing to counter-initiate
pos 5 enigma is greedy so resisting the urge to hoover up the odd creep camp or two is hard
maybe the only way to consciably do that is to do it on the enemy side of the map (aka deny enemies farm)
paper shell
pos 5 enigma is greedy so resisting the urge to hoover up the odd creep camp or ...
As a position 5 you are allowed to farm sometimes
And an enigma who’s 500 gold away from blink is sometimes basically a pos 1
glossy stratus
The tricky bit of farming as a 5 is that often you should be near your team, either defensively or exerting pressure, and that makes it hard to access camps that isn't stealing farm
Enigma is a bit better for that, since he can detach eidolons, though you have to be careful of that, since Eidolons do a lot early on
So having them absent can throw a fight
Of course, if you're fancy, you can get farm and make your cores love you by multistacking with eidolons
paper shell
Yeah they do a ton of damage
paper shell
Of course, if you're fancy, you can get farm *and* make your cores love you by m...
I wish I was that fancy
glossy stratus
Yeah they do a ton of damage
There's nothing sadder than having the enemy enigma right click their eidolons on you as a support and just having to flee or die
paper shell
Easily my favourite part of enigma
glossy stratus
I wish I was that fancy
Someday I will get good at stacking as micro supports and win every single game
Someday
paper shell
I cheat playing io using spirits to stack
Though most of the good spirits stacking spots are gone
glossy stratus
I wish I could play SD to any degree of capability
Because he has such hilariously good stacking, between disruption and shadow poison
paper shell
Having now played arc warden a few times in real games I feel better at the game than I ever have, and more confident in my micro
Though arc mostly you are just swapping
And just dropping your spells all at once is fine
And he doesn’t do as much splitting when in a support role
glossy stratus
The best part of playing with Arc support is the double mana boots, it's so nice
paper shell
Everyone just gets full mana
glossy stratus
(Okay, the vision is probably a lot more significant, but you really feel the impact of the boots)
paper shell
I think the bubbles for siege is great too
His kit is actually so good for support ngl
Really just lacks a stun
glossy stratus
It's definitely a greedy kit, because yeah, no CC
I think it would feel pretty bad if they have a strong initiating comp
But when they can't exploit it it seems very solid
glossy stratus
Yeah, but like as a Void or Ember or Storm for example I would be a lot happier to see an enemy Arc Warden than Lion
Anyone who likes to jump in and out
paper shell
I think jumping an arc warden alone is never a good idea
I suppse with a orchid is probably fine actually lol
glossy stratus
Eh, he's an easy kill for a lot of mids if they're having a decent game, but it's more that he can't stop you from moving freely in the rest of the fight
paper shell
That’s a good point
glossy stratus
Ofc your 5 can help cover that
He absolutely makes Blink initiators have the worst game, which is important
viscid trout
There's nothing sadder than having the enemy enigma right click their eidolons o...
honestly this is the main reason I would try pos 5 enigma
I just want to win lane, throw game
(jk about throw game part)
I wanna learn a micro hero because being able to harass with eidolons is the biggest plus
though the flip side is it'd probably feed a lot of eidolons unless I exclusively micro the eidolons, leaving no brain power for enigma itself
viscid tapir
big tree big good
glossy stratus
Since it's only one unit to micro, it can still 1v1 supports in lane, and it gives like 5 gold when killed
You can also kind of treat the Eidolons as one big unit, you do get more value if you're fancier but even without doing so they're solid
paper shell
I liked big tree
It’s was very funny
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨🟨🟩🟥🟩
🟩🟩🟥🟩🟨🟨🟥🟥🟩
🟥🟥🟥🟥🟨🟥🟥🟥🟩
🟥🟥🟥🟥🟨🟥🟥🟥🟥
I guessed today's Dota 2 hero! Try it yourself at https://saint11.github.io/HeroGuesser/
viscid tapir
got it in 2
honest idol
Aw dang
paper shell
Also the hero you picked first probably was pretty close if I had to guess
glossy stratus
||Meepo > Void Spirit > Mars > Doom|| for me
I wonder what the best hero to start with is
viscid tapir
I wonder what the best hero to start with is
||Dragon Knight was my starting point.||
glossy stratus
Shock! Surprise! Nobody could have foreseen this
reef parcel
@narrow sandal this is our dota 2 thread
olive moon
i had to 50/50 between 2 choices for my second guess, got it wrong
gritty sparrow
Had this happen in our games recently
paper shell
||Dragon Knight was my starting point.||
I was right
reef parcel
https://fxtwitter.com/kokeko21_chabo3/status/1810448629062422814 ftw you fight phantom lancer
reef parcel
Had this happen in our games recently
LOL
you have to put this on youtube omg
or some other shareable platform
viscid tapir
https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/4238531900078333321
Act 3 is out, and so is the Collector's Cache:
paper shell
dang you beat me
viscid tapir
PA and AM personas are commons
turtle tiny is common as well
I'm about to have so many Flame tokens
glossy stratus
Tom, certified flamer
viscid tapir
valve yet again sniping Riot with a worse adaption of Dota into something else
interesting that Tusk is not in that screenshot
there is in fact slightly more than just walk forward and punch
vapid ledge
wait is the fighting game part of act 3?
viscid tapir
yes
cursive wing
https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/4238531900078333321 <@&877973728997294120>
paper shell
https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/4238531900078333321 <@&877973728997294120>
I guess tom didn't @ people
glossy stratus
Speaking of <@&877973728997294120> , anyone for a single game before I vanish, never to be seen again (until tomorrow)?
steel forge
I could do a game
paper shell
I'd have loved to but alas it is DnD night
paper shell
My players have sequence broken into the BBEG's boss room 2 levels before they should have
reef parcel
i need to be distracted from the bitter pill
paper shell
so its going well
glossy stratus
My players have sequence broken into the BBEG's boss room 2 levels before they s...
I choose to believe they used barrel clipping to get out-of-bounds and trigger the BBEG's fight trigger
steel forge
oh good, more dota frame data
paper shell
Essentially... yes
reef parcel
oh good, more dota frame data
oh my god what am I missing
is there a fighting game in here now
steel forge
sleet fighter II
glossy stratus
oh good, more dota frame data
As a non-FGC player, this is incomprehensible, I love it
reef parcel
oh good, more dota frame data
<@&669960882536841251> guys you can now play dota
may god have mercy on our souls
vapid ledge
how many badges is it locked behind? (in a pathfinder session and can't check RN)
left prairie
what
rough sparrow
what the fuck is this
barren summit
Oh shit
proud marlin
they got blocking in dota?
lapis flax
reef parcel
there is in fact slightly more than just walk forward and punch
ugh
it's got dashing but no dash macro
the worst
viscid trout
I'm down to play
viscid trout
is there a spot open?
vapid ledge
but yeah, how many badges does it take to get to it?
reef parcel
made dota's one 623 into an actual 623
void tide
left prairie
so wait what happened
steel forge
but yeah, how many badges does it take to get to it?
0
reef parcel
dota now has a fighting game in it
literally "wake up son, 1 gigabyte download, arcsys intro time"
left prairie
unfortunately,
toxic parcel
<@&669960882536841251> guys you can now play dota
huh wuh huh
vapid ledge
inb4 autochess
would be funny if you go to dragon chess and it launches Dota Underlord installation window
reef parcel
@gaunt pivot
frozen birchBOT
oh my gods that's so cute
reef parcel
it's like... 4 spaces from the start millie
if you just wanna play a few games in the next few months
toxic parcel
what like not just two characters like
damn
reef parcel
like you get into a bar brawl and then the move list and frame data pop up
no just like 2 characters
like it's not that big a game
toxic parcel
ahhh
reef parcel
it's a hyper specific joke scenario
toxic parcel
minigame
reef parcel
yeah
toxic parcel
for a second i thought the ping was lik
like
valve had ACTUALLY beaten riot to the punch
"heres like 20 dota characters, more coming, full fighting game"
latent sky
oh good, more dota frame data
😨
vapid ledge
wait isn't the fighting game fest soon?
reef parcel
omg the fighting game has pvp
does it have rollback
fuck
guys we can submit will it kill clips to sajam
dota WIK
let's do it
stark linden
The fighting game is locked behind the seasonal gimmick?
steel forge
you don't even need to play dota
reef parcel
I didn't want to throw games to get tokens of heroes I don't play
there are trade systems anyway
stark linden
The trade systems are locked behind progression
stark linden
Oh thank god
steel forge
<@&877973728997294120> are we able to acquire a 5th?
stark linden
I'm hard locked in acts 1 and 2 by tokens I can't get 🫠
viscid trout
I'm hard locked in acts 1 and 2 by tokens I can't get 🫠
trader?
act 2 someone can give them to you
lapis python
toxic parcel
god its been so long since i played dota
and im so sleepy
im just sitting here sipping valerian tea marveling at the future
stark linden
Cuuuuute
reef parcel
oh my god
toxic parcel
i dont think i know her
reef parcel
this is the funniest best meepo set ever
vapid ledge
meepo???
vapid ledge
is this marci?
light urchin
It is
toxic parcel
oh shit they added a punch hero???
i remember yelling for a boxing hero in threads for YEARS
reef parcel
oh shit they added a punch hero???
ingle they've had a punch hero from the anime for years now
toxic parcel
i have not played dota in a long time
it was the friend group weekly in uni
most of a decade ago now
reef parcel
i have not played dota in a long time
it was the friend group weekly in uni
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIdsDs32k98 here. this video is from 2021
left prairie
i guess it was the "fighting game" people were thinking valve were working on
reef parcel
mute girl who can beat the fucking shit out of people
like she's just the fighting game character who walked into dota
left prairie
i've gone on and off with dota but i don't think dota is for me
toxic parcel
seeing threats of sexual peril in dota is weird as fucking hell
reef parcel
the dota setting is pretty fucking crapsack, it's like the witcher x dnd
toxic parcel
thats my saturday morning cartoon where my goblin goes to hell and back and back to hell and back and fights a scorpion king over an eye on a stick in a small river
toxic parcel
lmao it always felt like bayblade or world of warcraft
toxic parcel
aww
reef parcel
this is marci and dragon knight
toxic parcel
he looks like chris resident evil
reef parcel
the anime in a nutshell
davion (naked): fuck, this is angsty and complicated
marci: c:
me lookin respectfully
reef parcel
millie whenever I spot you using pk in realtime it's like reality forking and shattering before healing itself
frozen birchBOT
LOL
vapid ledge
it's just a D&D staple monster with the ability to project a copy image of itself
frozen birchBOT
name of our metal band if we ever get one started
Winged (she/her) ↩️
vapid ledge
dimension beast? projection beast?
reef parcel
you mean the displacer beast
but calling it the dissociation beast is much funnier for band name purposes
vapid ledge
that one, quite a fun fight in the mystara arcade games
reef parcel
oh my god
@manic nimbus @terse totem those cowards gave naga feet
she's got feet inside that zerg structure building animation looking tail
vapid ledge
dang, shown feet
reef parcel
wait
this just implies that like
the feet are atavistic? like a lizard brain?
like they had feet and then went back into the sea
so they've got little feet inside there
like humans and the tailbone
toxic parcel
<@175103370120527872> <@194908170030809098> those cowards gave naga feet
i like how she looks like a devil may cry enimy bnut they will not survive the winter
frozen birchBOT
honestly the dissociation beast is just the alterhuman + plural experience
Winged (she/her) ↩️
viscid tapir
<@&669960882536841251> guys you can now play dota
I posted this in fight club so all of fight club wouldn't be brought into the thread!
serene night
<@&669960882536841251> guys you can now play dota
Did not realize that Dota has on block frame data I thought everything just hit.
viscid tapir
yeah they made him hot
less so than default DK
toxic parcel
hope its cool to watch the dota, wont @ to distract lol
viscid tapir
it's usually open to spectators, though background questions or conversation are usually too distracting, though if there's a lull in the action game-relevant questions are sometimes okay
manic tree
I was pinged
toxic parcel
dota now has a fighting game
dota thoughts reactivated after like a decade: oh my god theres gotta be so many "x is mid!"/"rude!" jokes
marcis top? you bet she is
i wish id been gayer when i played dota thats so many perfect university age jokes
toxic parcel
that was fun to watch, thank you!
steel forge
yknow at some point when we stack up I'd be really interested in trying an aggressive tower pushing draft
olive moon
@steel forge im currently watching a 10k ranked game with a jungle lifestealer
steel forge
that does make me a feel a bit better honestly
gritty sparrow
yknow at some point when we stack up I'd be really interested in trying an aggre...
Learn Lone Druid
You might think "I don't want to learn how to micro two heroes!"
The secret is the old man sits in a tree nearby while your bear mauls a tower
steel forge
Yeah I'm not exactly too stressed about playing two heroes, I more want to try drafting with tower pushing in mind
local? wow
gritty sparrow
Yeah that's why I recommend him. There are a lot of teams that by the time they can actually deal with the bear you are getting megas at 20 minutes
steel forge
do you happen to have any reccomendations for vaguely recent guides for lone druid? the tortedelini one seems to be quiten a bit out of date
glossy stratus
yknow at some point when we stack up I'd be really interested in trying an aggre...
Hm, we could have Tom on DK, Emily on Enigma, trying to think of other heroes we play that are good pushers
glossy stratus
Also true
paper shell
Natures
glossy stratus
I could play Sniper if Tom went safe
viscid trout
Jakiro
paper shell
Pugna
glossy stratus
Trying to think of good 3s for a pushing lineup
viscid trout
comes with an insane ult
glossy stratus
Good 3s that we have someone that plays, I should say
paper shell
Prophet is probably the hero
viscid trout
BIG TREE
glossy stratus
I'm skeptical of Prophet 3, but it might be better than I credit it for
gritty sparrow
Good 3s that we have someone that plays, I should say
Beastmaster
glossy stratus
Or maybe Dark Seer 3, Enigma 4
Beastmaster as Sly pointed out would be solid too
IDK if we have anyone that plays him though
paper shell
DK 3 is also like an option
gritty sparrow
You could probably do Lone Druid or Troll as 1 then Tiny or Viper as mid
paper shell
but I think hes the mid in how we draft it
glossy stratus
Definitely not Troll IMO
Troll is pathetic during the timings you want for a push draft
gritty sparrow
You would likely want Jakiro as a necessity as a support so he could slow the tower during fort
glossy stratus
Jak 5 would be good
paper shell
I think tom plays LD also
glossy stratus
Could also do Mars 3 with the vision talent
paper shell
Also chen
glossy stratus
Just put an Arena on the tower
viscid tapir
DS 3 to surge in iron treant
gritty sparrow
I forgot about Mars's new thing
You could honestly do mars as 4 if his only goal in life is to arena the tower
glossy stratus
Realistically I think DS 3 grabbing a Vlads+Mek is probably the best option
paper shell
Enigma?
glossy stratus
Enigma 3 can also work, DS just provides a lot of teamfight and ion shells
And Enigma 4 + DS 3 is mean
viscid trout
honestly, arena to get the tower is insanely funny
imagine using arena to highground
so you can 1v5 the tower
glossy stratus
You could honestly do mars as 4 if his only goal in life is to arena the tower
Dubious of this, because you could have a Mars 3 and have, y'know, a fully-functional Mars instead
gritty sparrow
This is true but I'm less thinking of someone fully functional and more what would be the best at this singular goal
glossy stratus
Or, well, not fully-functional without Arena, but still a lot better than a 4 Mars, who does so much less
I mean, having a Mars in the frontline is pretty good for being able to push even if he doesn't do that much by himself
...actually, can he steal the tower's multishot with his passive, to keep your creeps alive?
gritty sparrow
Unsure, I don't play that hero
paper shell
I wonder if with the right draft you could take a t1 at the start of the game
Like the enemy team goes to lanes
But everyone hangs around mid and takes the t1
Ironwood plus idleons do a lot of damage
gritty sparrow
Probably but I think you might just grief yourself too much with that
Could probably test it in a bot game to see if you can just do it in one wave
crude iris
so...why was this channel the source of a fightclub ping? is it popular among fightclub people?
I'm gonna be real I've never played DOTA before
vapid ledge
dota's most recent update includes a legit fighting game minigame
roster of 2
but also has frame data and things
vapid ledge
haven't gotten around to trying it out
crude iris
ah
gritty sparrow
There are 5 characters in it I think
vapid ledge
oh nice, i was relying on what i remembered seeing in chat
glossy stratus
It's a separate little minigame
Sadly, no fighting game interludes within a match
delicate jungle
LC should get a third facet called “fight me rn scrub” that pulls up the fighting game when you duel someone
gritty sparrow
yeag
steel forge
Hm, we could have Tom on DK, Emily on Enigma, trying to think of other heroes we...
I mean realistically Im not opposed to playing a new hero, but I do also play a non zero number of the heroes you mentioned
manic nimbus
imo clinkz is one of the best pushing pos1s
or slark
(you can slowsiege with shard and near impunity often)
steel forge
alright thoughts after a game of lone druid
- This is a pretty fun hero
- He actually scales? I kinda just assumed he became useless very quickly but items actually made me feel quite strong into the lategame after I biffed the laning phase
- I'm not sure if the bear's sceptre is a crutch for new ld players or a real item that actually has value
I did kinda feed mid in my first game which, while not unexpected, did make me feel bad for the people I was playing with
we did win, because hg is hard, but still
reef parcel
1. This is a pretty fun hero
2. He actually scales? I kinda just assumed he beca...
He absolutely scales, he used to be a really scary pos1 back in the day
There was a famous character specialist who was so good at him everyone had to ban lone druid against him all the way through TI
I remember the scepter being super strong on the bear
But you need a lot of awareness to know when to push lanes out
serene arrow
you do get twice the number of items haha
steel forge
Yeah like, the pushing value is real but whenever I see an item/talent/facet that removes some kind of restriction I worry it's paying gold or some other kind of opportunity cost to deal with something that could be dealt with with improved skill
if that makes sense
reef parcel
@manic nimbus smh dota 2 is a consumption culture
i'm encouraging someone to buy aghs
light urchin
you've become what you fought against
reef parcel
it's a slippery slope
step 1: buy raindrops in lane
step 2: ???
step 3: juul vapes
gritty sparrow
1. This is a pretty fun hero
2. He actually scales? I kinda just assumed he beca...
Specifically the change to the bear getting stats now makes him scale better. Don't get scepter btw unless you plan to just rat the game out
It's a solid strategy but very much a thing like, "only lone druid is having fun this game" strat
Your team is stuck with 4 people and a useless old man while his lost pet mauls children to death in the woods
steel forge
that makes sense
honestly it mostly helped in defending against megas with the druid while ending the game with the bear
viscid tapir
new build spotted in Tron's game
I believe it's to combo with their allied Pudge's ethereal blade
glossy stratus
1. This is a pretty fun hero
2. He actually scales? I kinda just assumed he beca...
He's one of those heroes that falls off eventually (and less so now than historically), but late enough that I wouldn't really worry about it while drafting
gritty sparrow
His two weaknesses are the bear being kited and the old man dying instantly
Er
Three weaknesses
The third is just labeled Winters Curse
In bold, red letters
paper shell
new build spotted in Tron's game
What hero is this
viscid tapir
||Nyx Assassin||
glossy stratus
The bear used to get real squishy later on but presumably it getting stats helps with that
gritty sparrow
Yes. The bear has so much fucking health now
The main concern you will have is the above weaknesses so you can like, theoretically be twelve slotted as the Druid. But once someone like Drow Ranger has the items to just gun down your bear those items are only going to help so much, you are inclined to just run her down before that becomes an issue
But if it does become an issue
Well
Rat time
glossy stratus
The best part of LD is it's the one hero where buying nine Wraith Bands is an entirely reasonable decision