DOTA 2

[paper shell]

coming up soon

[gritty sparrow]

This was to get around Juggernaut

Who if I went normal spectre he could ult me

But if I get aghs and spam my teleport and keep only showing up briefly he is having a lot more difficulty

[paper shell]

Cool idea

[gritty sparrow]

Plus spirit vessel and Dagon onto someone as i had a clinkz running around spooking people

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7764224874

This match specifically

[manic nimbus]

Storm atm super bullies melee mids

The walking remnant is so nasty

[gritty sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/stay-away-from-me-gif-25431133

Pov: you're a melee mid

[manic nimbus]

saw a pro game of it vs timber and it looked horrific for the timber

[glossy stratus]

Yeah, it's so mean in lane, I'm enjoying it a lot

325 move speed is a lot, especially when they had difficulty playing out of remnant range before they added that facet

Helps a ton with securing the ranged creep as well

[manic nimbus]

yeah it seems so good

I have been doing gleip first jaik even for support positions

it seems very good

I think mid might want mjol though

[glossy stratus]

Makes sense, better farming plus better stats for other items that abuse the innate

And Jak's tanky enough the active can do good work in fights

Something like Mjollnir > Bloodthorn, perhaps?

Well, probably BKB first, Thorn is expensive and you want to abuse your early strength

[manic nimbus]

yeah I think like mjol then bkb then maybe just caster items even

I feel like people probably have dispels and stuff once you have mjol + bkb + thorn

[paper shell]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1d3c5ad/finally_we_have_them_all_shield_rune_icon_was/

[karmic grove]

I think the next thing I want to give a shot is offlane venge with the melee facet. Orb of corrosion and echo sabre on a ranged might be annoying

[steel forge]

Oh shit

Yknow what the sk devil changes does do? If you blink epi into a chronosphere, your sandstorm can follow you

That’s actually pretty cool

[glossy stratus]

Or even better if you blink just outside then burrow in it jumps in with you

I'm looking forward to teleporting in, burrowstriking, then getting fountain glimpsed

And watching my sandstorm kill Disruptor and two jungle camps

[steel forge]

Lmao

We can hope

[reef parcel]

the sands

of time

https://tenor.com/view/prince-of-persia-sands-of-time-pop-drill-attack-death-gif-18507677

[delicate jungle]

<@&877973728997294120> in about 10 mins?

[paper shell]

I could maybe but my internets been real bad tonight

so it might be best if I spectate at best

[light urchin]

Mmmaybe? I'm a bit bushwacked

Actually yeah nah not tonight

[manic nimbus]

new mirana ult is pretty nice

shadow is probably usually better but if your team picks a second invis or have good heroes for it I think its quite nice

lets your team push base amazingly

[viscid tapir]

had no idea this was an option

[steel forge]

Huh

[steel forge]

I do not understand the reference

[swift sand]

Prince of Persia: Sands of time is an old game about sands with power over time, much like how you can now use your power of Sandstorms and combo it with Chronosphere.

[steel forge]

Ah, I see, a reference to a game two years older than I am

Sounds cool though

Time saaand

[reef parcel]

Omggg

Baaabyyyy

[steel forge]

I am pointing a finger at you and calling you old

2003 is literally more than 20 years ago

[light urchin]

I forgot Tron was younger than me

[reef parcel]

Baaaabyyyy

ruffles hair

Tron you're cool and cute

[steel forge]

Derp Im pretty sure Im like

A few months younger than you

I thought

[light urchin]

I was born in 2004

[steel forge]

Well

12 is a few right

[light urchin]

A few too many
Perish

[delicate jungle]

Tron I did not realize you were that much younger than me

You were born in 2005?

Time isn’t real

[olive moon]

anyone whose birth year starts with 2 is babby and will be forever

[steel forge]

Not sure about that paradigm

[paper shell]

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-point-debate-argument-angel-gif-17274775

The other half of that is anyone who has a birth year which starts with 1 is old

[swift sand]

Good thing that my birth year starts with a 19

[paper shell]

Anyone who’s birth year is a number is

And I don’t want to hear from any of you 4d weirdos about this

[gritty sparrow]

My secret was never revealing my age online to people because everyone assumed I was older than them

I would be 19 hanging out with 30 year olds who thought I must be getting grey hairs by now

The benefits of my voice are few but there.

[paper shell]

T_T I’ve had grey hairs since 18

[gritty sparrow]

Funnily enough same, each of my siblings has poliosis. Mine is the second lowest of them with just some on the sides of my head

My second youngest sibling has a huge streak of it though

[paper shell]

Streaks would be cool mine just peppered in underneath

[gritty sparrow]

I'm the only one that sounds like they were born in their late thirties though

[paper shell]

lol

[gritty sparrow]

If I don't brush my hair I rapidly start looking like a black Doc Brown since my grey hairs are the first to stuck up at the sides

[olive moon]

<@&877973728997294120> any gamers?

[cursive wing]

im about to lose a shit game

so maybe

[delicate jungle]

Ye

@olive moon were ready

[glossy stratus]

Unfortunately eternally wiped this week, so no Dotes for me

[delicate jungle]

ok

[olive moon]

i didnt get message alerts, thanks discord

sry friends

[delicate jungle]

It’s ok

[vapid ledge]

hey what are some intro to dealing with PL wisdoms?

[gritty sparrow]

Like, not dying to phantom lancer?

[vapid ledge]

not dying to and also how to fight against a team that includes him

[gritty sparrow]

aoe magic damage

[vapid ledge]

cause we just had a game where our entire game was just defending against a lane of PL

[gritty sparrow]

Your first thought it going to be earth shaker. Because of echo slam. Which is good at killing him early

But he will quickly stop caring about him

[vapid ledge]

my pos3 commander did not dare split pushing out due to the twice i tried, the team just crumpled in their 4 v 3 defense

[gritty sparrow]

Your answers will be things like Necro, Sand King, Warlock and such.

[vapid ledge]

ah ok

[steel forge]

Bristlyback is pretty solid too

[gritty sparrow]

For items ghost scepter is good because phantom lancer won't buy a nullifer for you

Weirdly, another great thing is Lotus orb

The way PL stays relevant nowadays is that he has really great harass with his aghs. He can just casually toss it and suddenly the team needs to respond because that has a chance to just kill a support outright and it will drain your mana with the diffusal procs

[vapid ledge]

amusingly due to the fact it's blind pick (this is a thing in my company in-house), we don't usually know PL after seeing full roster

[gritty sparrow]

If the only person PL can bounce his spirit lance aghs off of is lotus orb'd, then he's going to eat harass back, which can be brutal for him depending on who that is put on

[vapid ledge]

may cause a meta shift of "ban sniper AND PL"

oh right, that's a fun idea

[gritty sparrow]

Like if the only person being up front to him is, say, medusa and he can only bounce it off her but he is creating like three medusa clones just to do that, it makes it a lot less worth it for him

[glossy stratus]

As a core, Mjollnir active shreds PL

[viscid tapir]

<@&877973728997294120> would anyone like to defend of the ancient?

[delicate jungle]

ye

[olive moon]

it might be hard if your inhouse games are super disorganised but PL needs a lot of items to be strong. if you can win your lanes and take away his space to farm, PL isn't going to be strong for a very long time

[olive moon]

ye

[glossy stratus]

I'm somewhat less dead today! So I might be able to catch game 3ish when I'm free in an hour and a half, lmao

[vapid ledge]

i will work towards practicing to be a scarier carry for that in-house

[steel forge]

I will be around much later ;-;

[vapid ledge]

but yeah it's disorganized enough that people aren't worried about gold priority or team comp yet

[paper shell]

Jakiro is also quite good into pl

Doubly so

[vapid ledge]

oh yeah that makes sense

[paper shell]

Jakiro likes to push and take towers early

Which pl doesn’t want

And also all his spells are good against pl

Legion commander is also usually pretty good against pl

Plus you can say to yourself “I’ll simply duel the right one” and then pop off when you do

The other option is infact just draft earth shaker and hit the big echo slams

Usually though a pl pick it’s too late and the person who picked pl said to themselves oh, this is a good/free pl game

I didn’t see the part about blind draft. In which case just punish them with the hard counters

[vapid ledge]

lol i didn't level fast enough and lost some early duels vs their underlord, when i finally catch that PL who was pretty much dedicated to avoid me, i was having trouble catching up to him

also not blind draft, blind pick as in ban 2 and everyone proceed to pick at the same time

but yeah i'll take those into consideration next time

[delicate jungle]

you r?

[glossy stratus]

Nope, a while still for me

[delicate jungle]

ok

[olive moon]

@karmic grove game done u shouldjoin

[karmic grove]

Guess the hero

[gritty sparrow]

Venge

[karmic grove]

yeah

I suppose the harpoon and pike gives it away

[gritty sparrow]

Yeah

[karmic grove]

Was a very silly game, 57 minutes against jakiro tinker pitlord

[karmic grove]

Red dragon knight really is the budget sven, I get giga farmed and then throw the game by getting caught out just like with sven, too

[viscid tapir]

lol

i'm perplexed that black dragon aghs gives illusion splash back

[karmic grove]

How do you mean? You still have cleave in red dragon form

Oh, it doesn't

[viscid tapir]

did it not?

[karmic grove]

Nope :(

[viscid tapir]

:(

yeah

i guess because the dragon type is tied to Wymr's Wrath now

and not a buff from Dragon Form

[karmic grove]

Alas

Mirana Carry and Offlane Venge have definitely been my favourite weird picks so far this patch

[steel forge]

I've done it

I played slark

he is very cool

now admittedly it was helped by playing him into a weaver PA lane

(the PA was supporting)

I have absolutely no idea what items to get on him though

[manic nimbus]

diffusal -> agh was the big build for a while

echo is pretty decent

[steel forge]

That tracks

I bought a soul ring on him which I'm not 100% sure I needed to do but man is he a mana hungry little guy

[manic nimbus]

I probably wouldn't do that

I think uh

falcon blade sees some use

I don't think he is intensely mana hungry

clarities are probably good enough for farming

with good tread switching

[steel forge]

that makes sense

you... switch off int while casting? or something? i do not recall

[viscid tapir]

to int

switching to it means you have more max mana, and casting a spell therefore takes proportionally less mana

[steel forge]

so while I'm farming with [whatever the ability is called], I want to be on int the whole time?

[hidden hazel]

switch to int when using mana

switch off int when gaining mana (anytime you're not casting)

[steel forge]

ohh because they increase your current mana

I see

[cursive wing]

For slark if you do go echo you can disassemble it for aghs

And then make the Oblivion staff into like an orchid or something

I forget if that still builds into orchid

[viscid tapir]

yes

though echo doesnt have it in the recipe i think

pretty sure it's ogre axe + broadsword + void stone

[cursive wing]

Wait really

Rop

[viscid tapir]

horrible fish gremlin

[steel forge]

pounce is a fun ability

I like the gremlin

[steel forge]

I have tried disassembling echo saber

This feels very clunky

aghs is good, there's some reasonable things that broadsword turns into

void stone though...

[pearl chasm]

Eul’s -> Windwaker is the only thing I could even think of

Which is not great for Slark

[steel forge]

I think if it's a game where I need a linken's for ??? reasons I'd maybe consider it

[pearl chasm]

That too

[cursive wing]

you often probably just make another one

it simply speeds up the aghs timing by 1000 gold and if there's someone else to help do damage for one teamfight

[steel forge]

that makes sense

I built shadow blade in the last game I played out of it and that did not feel incredible

[glossy stratus]

Slark specifically gets a lot of value out of tread switching, since what you can do is int treads > cast dark pact with the extra mana > str treads > eat the dark pact damage with the extra hp > agi treads > finish off the camp with the better autoattacks

Raindrops are a good solution to his early game mana woes, he really benefits from the magic barrier

[viscid tapir]

@steel forge look what showed up in my candyworks caravan

[gritty sparrow]

Some discoveries as I made my new rubick tierlist

AA having so much power in his kit turned into his passive means some of his spells barely do anything for you

You just don't apply death rime so he becomes a lot worse to steal from

Slow Burn on Lina says it works but doesn't. You at least get normal damage values, just no burn

Sand King sandstorm will look like you have the qghs effect when you have aghs, but won't actually stun unless you get burrowstrike.

The aoe bonus facet changes only one person from an A or B tier to S tier steal and that is Kunkka because if you get torrent storm that is just. Game ending.

[glossy stratus]

THe SK sandstorm thing was true previously I think

Or at least it was in AD

[gritty sparrow]

There was a brief patch where you didn't

Cause normally Rubick doesn't follow AD rules, he typically gets the supplementary spells to accompany effects

Such as, you steal Luna ult, you use Luna's level of Lucent beam

You don't need to steal both.

With the facets additions I think there are some effects that they have not smoothed that over for Rubick yet

Such as Dawnbringer's new facet to have a little ult effect where your hammer lands on the ground

If you are Rubick, and you steal hammer, there is a little vfx effect but obviously no aoe you are getting from it. But if you steal it and ult you then get it

Honestly this changes not a lot for most heroes as far as who you steal from, the only big change really was AA but I submitted like 4 different bug reports related to spell steal last night

So hopefully eventually this changes

[steel forge]

Oh god

Ive genuinely been meaning to buy it it’s just so awful

[glossy stratus]

The face, I hate it

[reef parcel]

<@&877973728997294120> looking for 2 more players

[uncut ridge]

I could go for a match

[glossy stratus]

I could pop in

[delicate jungle]

Alas, I am attaining glory through violence (playing gubat banwa)

[viscid tapir]

@olive moon do you remember what your duel damage record was?

700 something?

[olive moon]

742 i think

[viscid tapir]

Tron is in a separate game than the main party

[olive moon]

ok so tron's game is 10 mins longer than my record game

[viscid tapir]

lol

[olive moon]

but also that is a lot of damage

[viscid tapir]

RIP

[olive moon]

im still winning by 6

[viscid tapir]

lol

[olive moon]

😎

[steel forge]

that game was suffering

just absolutely zero coordination amongst my team

very unfortunate

[hidden hazel]

I had planned to play a quick dota game and then ping people in here but I ended up having ~90 minute game where we fought mega creeps forever

We won though so worth it

[viscid tapir]

the pilot net special without pilot net

[hidden hazel]

ggs

[viscid tapir]

gg!

[hidden hazel]

I should learn chen

I think I'd like him

[gritty sparrow]

Now Tom recommended I start learning morph again

Which I mentioned that I don't get the chance to p1 all that much so I haven't

But I now have an idea cooking up that I think will work, I just need to get back home to my computer and test timings and cooldowns

If so I will need to curse one of my friends by playing offlane Morphling

Now it's my time to play some meme pick and feed

[manic nimbus]

ah the jenkins pick

[gritty sparrow]

This will be me during the match

[frozen birch]

We're the local Chen mains and we highly recommend picking him up

Amber (she/her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1159983908885106879 message) I should learn chen

he's an absolute blast to play

much to our sadness however the correct facet to take for him is the troll one. We tried the wolves and it just didn't do enough to be worth taking over having access to net and later on the skeleton summons

[delicate jungle]

I want to hunt more bounties

I know bounty hunter is good for me because that was one of the few games I lost and still had a lot of fun in

Jinada/cutpurse noise make brain go brrr

Ok wtf they turned Jakiro into a machine gun

[light urchin]

Bounty Hunter is fun yeah

He's one of my go-tos for 4

[frozen birch]

Same! He and Chen are our main heroes

[hidden hazel]

I love the troll creeps

Skeleton bois

I might do some chen next timr we play

[delicate jungle]

Also, why does bounty typically want drum?

[frozen birch]

bit of all stats, bit of regen and movement, plus you're helping your team

what's not to love?

[delicate jungle]

Ok

[light urchin]

Bounty is a great carrier of team support stuff like that because of how fast he generates gold, and it's good at keeping him relevant lategame where his invis and engage ability falls off

[hidden hazel]

Its very valid to go for a bunch of those mid cost items as bounty

It allows you to hit power spikes early & often which generates you & your team lots of gold

And late game it doesn't clog your slots too much cause you have the income to replace them with higher ticket times

[glossy stratus]

Bounty also doesn't really have any items he specifically needs, unlike most heroes, so he can more easily go for the general value items like Drums

[hidden hazel]

Oh yeah bounty can literally use any item well

[glossy stratus]

It also means he should be itemizing for the game more than most, he's a good holder for a Vessel or Pipe or Eul's or Force Staff

Since they're not disrupting an important item timing

[light urchin]

yeah, I like getting boots of bearing on him early and then grabbing utilities

[glossy stratus]

His stun being on his invis is interesting, makes blink/aether lens less valuable than on a lot of supports

[light urchin]

He doesn't Not like aether lens, especially with the Track buff

[hidden hazel]

Blink & Aether lens are very good on him though

That actually used to be my go to build

Can you still blink during the shadow walk fade time?

[light urchin]

Dunno

But yeah he actually quite likes Aether lategame, especially if he picks up Shard

[glossy stratus]

They're both solid on him, sure, but not as crucial as on say, Lion or Shadow Shaman

[reef parcel]

<@&877973728997294120> looking for a fifth

[delicate jungle]

ye

[reef parcel]

oh wait maybe sly is already in

sorry

[delicate jungle]

aw :(

[reef parcel]

damn that ping got taken so fast it got taken in advance

[delicate jungle]

i would like to dota tho

[viscid tapir]

sly is maybe* already in

[reef parcel]

we'll see if sly is up for it

yeah sly is in

c'est la vieee

sorry punch

[delicate jungle]

its ok

[viscid tapir]

Star Get!

[steel forge]

🎉

[hidden hazel]

[viscid tapir]

relatedly: SK feels really strong

stinger is a funny spell

[steel forge]

Stinger is rad

[hidden hazel]

The sandking facet that ditches the invis seems very good to me

[viscid tapir]

yeah

if you want invis you can just build a shadow blade

[hidden hazel]

Invis often feels like a downside cause if the opponent does the right thing and buys dust you just constantly eat a 20% movement slow

[viscid tapir]

yeah

[steel forge]

Yeah like, you’re always going to be visibly anyways and it makes sandstorm a way worse farming tool since it doesn’t move

[viscid tapir]

other SK thought: I'm so, so happy that the alt-cast works like other movement spells

[glossy stratus]

It's so nice

You can actually use it for mobility now! Without SK deciding to do a pathing dance right into their team instead!

[gritty sparrow]

Sand King aghs is the new Kunkka aghs

Don't have bkb? Die.

Go have a time out

Get unlucky and be stunned for 6 seconds before sand king even notices you are there

[glossy stratus]

It's not Kunkka Aghs - Torrent Storm has a cooldown

It is less oppressive until you get Bloodstone

But once you do...

[pearl chasm]

Played bane against new SK and man

You want to talk about a miserable time

Once he had aghs I basically never got to ult

[viscid tapir]

sleepwalk?

oh, not against bane

[pearl chasm]

No no

I was the bane getting SK’ed

[viscid tapir]

RIP

[pearl chasm]

Sleepwalk was fun

Just not nearly enough

[viscid tapir]

the first game after my rank up

they did not in fact go play it in unranked

the entire team has doubled down MMR anyway

[pearl chasm]

RIP my guy

[noble tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/choose-choice-woke-up-chose-gif-23847919

[glossy stratus]

Thank you for reaffirming my decision to play only unranked

[viscid tapir]

note: I was also part of the entire team
extra note: we lost

[noble tusk]

with drow hard support?

you dont say

[viscid tapir]

okay but if it worked I would use it as an excuse to try it with you all

so this really is the best result

[noble tusk]

thank you based crownfall drow person

[viscid tapir]

lol

[noble tusk]

[steel forge]

Ah but you see drow has a cc effect

That makes them a support, obviously

[glossy stratus]

They have a slow, a silence, and an AoE movement/lockdown

[steel forge]

They’re basically windrunner (do not check my logic)

[glossy stratus]

Clearly ideal p5

[steel forge]

Clearly

[glossy stratus]

In less-cursed support discourse, I've run against an NP+Mars offlane a few times now and kind of want to try it myself

NP's new sprout is maybe even more obnoxious in lane than before, and the Sprout > Spear combo is super low investment and easy to land, and opens them up for a lot of follow up

Or even just a bunch of free harass

[viscid tapir]

<@&877973728997294120> anyone up for some games? I promise not to pick Drow 5 Support

[glossy stratus]

Alas, no Dotes for me on (most) Mondays

[viscid tapir]

alas

[glossy stratus]

Which means I can't inflict Drow 5 Episode 2 upon you

So perhaps not alas

[steel forge]

I am still trapped in the hinterlands for some time

[delicate jungle]

i am

i want to. hunt more bounties

nyx and bounty was fun

[viscid tapir]

I think I'd prefer a larger party, just gonna chill unless we get a full stack

[delicate jungle]

yeh

[pearl chasm]

I saw your message as we queued in

and we got stuck with a mid oracle

fuck my life

[delicate jungle]

its ok we will be around

[viscid tapir]

I don't even think Mid Oracle is that terrible
I will spectate your game with great interest

[paper shell]

I do agree, mid oracle can do well

[viscid tapir]

seems to be doing them alright

[delicate jungle]

<@&877973728997294120> gamers?

perhaps 1 or 2 games?

[gritty sparrow]

Mid oracle is one of those things where I know it can do well but I would instead put money down on the person torpedoing my game

[cursive wing]

the problem with mid oracle is you end up snowballing your gold just as hard if you pick support oracle because of just how much damage purifying flames does

[karmic grove]

I'd disagree, getting the levels earlier than the sidelaners means purifying flamed on mid oracle will do a fair bit more damage relative to support oracle

[paper shell]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/WeZa39Wm1o

I was a little surprised by how high apm io was. But you do usually constantly move as well as spirits micro, it’s not like real apm but I guess it counts like bristlebacks apm counts lol

[steel forge]

Im surprised by how high ursa is

[paper shell]

His abilities are very spamable

[steel forge]

I suppose yeah he jumps a lot

It’s more him being higher than bristle

Highest gold and xp fed being huskar is sending me a little

[light urchin]

Visage sweep

[gritty sparrow]

Since it is pure apm I think that Ursa players slamming all their keys 50 times in the half second before its off cooldown counts for this

He has 3 keys that in a fight can all be button mashed on repeat and that's the ideal playstyle

Even bristle in this case has more to target and consider

[pearl chasm]

I think part of the issues with the mid oracle is that once your opponents have enough health to not just die to combo, you’re not able to do much. Anyone who survives can wind up healed up.

Game was also just a shit-show though. Dude was yelling the entire time and no amount of skill is worth toxicity.

[steel forge]

That’s true, even if it feels like pressing quill spray off cooldown would mitigate the difference

[hidden hazel]

Oh as ursa you can just piano your keys and accomplish something in a fight

[hidden hazel]

I used to rock support ursa all the time in all random

Does that work in all pick?

[viscid tapir]

part of me wants to say no

the other part of me looks at 20% longer debuffs and wants to say yes

[steel forge]

He has a slow

Im very unconvinced by this idea lol

[viscid tapir]

slow
can zone in lane

is this a support?

[hidden hazel]

Basically lmao

And he had the benefit of just being able to go kill rosh as a solo support

He was actually pretty good at the role when I played him that way

[steel forge]

I guess I don’t know how well he scales without items or at least early farm

An ursa not lasthitting creeps and just punching you in lane does sound kinda solid

[hidden hazel]

Yeah you can't trade at all

Supports have more money now which I think makes support ursa worse

The lack of farm wasn't an issue since you had so much damage in your kit, and enemy supports would just die without issue

[olive moon]

im sure theres some kinda orb > boots > vlads > blink > carry items build that could work

[delicate jungle]

im not gonna ping but would anyone be avilailbe for some mid day dota?

[steel forge]

I think if you could really capitalise on the strength in lane I could see it maybe

[olive moon]

I'll be on in about an hour

[delicate jungle]

ok

[paper shell]

I could maybe be around, I can maybe finally test out my newinternet

[olive moon]

<@&877973728997294120> any early gamers?

[delicate jungle]

I want to. Hunt bounties.

[narrow wadi]

sure

[paper shell]

I'll be there shortly

[glossy stratus]

Mid Oracle strikes me as similar to mid Skywrath, where the extra levels and gold move your magic damage from "dangerous" to "overwhelming"

Oracle falls off even faster than Skywrath in terms of damage output, but at least he still has his ulti, magic damage immunity, and heals to fall back on

[cursive wing]

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7770606723

[glossy stratus]

I want to run Sniper alongside a damage share Legion one of these days

[karmic grove]

SnY before BKB vs lich willow and lina

With SnY not giving status resist anymore I think I'd be hard pressed to think of a situation where you'd want it finished before BKB in most situations nowadays

Didn't buy shard either, very cursed

[olive moon]

sny does give status resistance

its just sange that doesnt

[karmic grove]

Oh phew

<good at reading patch notes

[viscid tapir]

there were a lot of patch notes

[glossy stratus]

IIRC it's only SnY that gives it now, not Halberd or SnK?

[viscid tapir]

yes

sange and its upgrades have slow resist

but only SnY has status resist

Kaya & Sange has regen amp of some sort
Yasha & Kaya has 25% cast speed increase

[gritty sparrow]

The change to kaya and sange was manaloss reduction as a stat

[cursive wing]

Last time that stat was on an item storm had the same power spike twice per game

6 null talismen

[karmic grove]

Any <@&877973728997294120> people about?

[delicate jungle]

uhhhhhh

maybe?

[viscid tapir]

sure

[delicate jungle]

actaully, probably not till later

[paper shell]

sure

[karmic grove]

[olive moon]

in a game rn, can play soon

prob only like 10 mins left in this one

or u just queue and ill backseat coach

[paper shell]

Nono

We need our broodmother

[viscid tapir]

and deny us the opportunity to backseat you?

[light urchin]

I can rumble in like, 15 minutes?

[glossy stratus]

Alas, no Dotes for at least 3 hours for me

[viscid tapir]

lmao

broodmother into warlock

[light urchin]

oh nooo

[viscid tapir]

unlimited imps

[glossy stratus]

Quick, pick Venge 4 or 5

Get 1 million damage magic missile

[viscid tapir]

we are 45 minutes too late to suggest that

[glossy stratus]

Alas

Venge + Brood is a silly potential synergy

[cursive wing]

I saw a clip where he golem and souped a brood stack

And then the spiders became imps and brood become dead

[viscid tapir]

i saw it live

16 minutes ago

[cursive wing]

Lol

[glossy stratus]

Looks like the Dota stack is winding down?

[paper shell]

Someone remind me to kick the person with the swastika in their profile in my guild when tuesday night maintance ends

[glossy stratus]

Delightful -_-

[paper shell]

🙄

I made space for someone else and they didn't accept the invite

[glossy stratus]

Any plans to reconvene the stack post-maintenance? Considering wandering home on the early side

[paper shell]

Its possible eventually but we didn't stop because of the maintainence

I'm sure tom will want to play more

I too have no current commitments

[glossy stratus]

Tom "Dota Fiend" Zero

How'd the new Internet handle it btw?

[paper shell]

Well I randomly got DCed

Its smooth

except wifi dcs I guess?

[gritty sparrow]

I also randomly dc'd, it's cool

[paper shell]

I sure do download faster at the very least

Oh boy new battle report

[glossy stratus]

Tbh "mostly good with random DCs" seems preferable to before

[gritty sparrow]

If it helps it might just be dota specific for the crashes

[paper shell]

Who woulda guessed io

[gritty sparrow]

Cause I dc'd like twice today and yesterday and both times were exclusive to dota

[glossy stratus]

Shock. Surprise. Utter amazement,

[paper shell]

Oh and some nice support too

[gritty sparrow]

Fascinating.

[glossy stratus]

New battle pass is enough of an excuse for me, time to meander my way to my PC

[gritty sparrow]

I don't think my battle report has ever been the same character

[paper shell]

Battle report

not pass

[glossy stratus]

Exactly 500 last hits average lol

[glossy stratus]

Right, yeah, brainfart

[glossy stratus]

Same, but a bit less surprising there

[karmic grove]

Yay

[glossy stratus]

(I've had one (1) battle report)

Decent tower damage there

[karmic grove]

You gotta hit the towers as troll

Damn, 62.5% winrate across all games compared to I think a 48% to my previous battle report

[gritty sparrow]

Medusa/Necro/Phantom Lancer/Dark Seer/Spectre/Drow/Rubick and lastly Wraith King

Yeah, never the same

[olive moon]

bean

[paper shell]

Anyways I've been reminded that I should be playing IO

because IO is the fun hero

[glossy stratus]

78% lane winrate, 78% winrate
win lane win game?

[glossy stratus]

<@&877973728997294120> anyone around for the second fifth enpingening?

[light urchin]

Oh hey

[delicate jungle]

uhhhh

if i cant get into destiny by the time yall get 4

then yes

[steel forge]

This is at least third dota ping

[karmic grove]

I'm doing Lancer, so none for me

The hit tabletop RPG

[glossy stratus]

Never heard of it

[paper shell]

I think I can play again though I've been pinged to play in another location at the same time

[light urchin]

I think it's about spears or something

[glossy stratus]

Ah, probably won't be collecting a full stack here then

[paper shell]

I mean I'm not sure what was going on with that other one

But as far as I can tell Tom is dead

RIP

[karmic grove]

And before he ever mained a good hero, how sad :(

[glossy stratus]

He's already dead, you didn't need to murder him again

[light urchin]

Smh you all queued up without me, for shame

Hrm, been having an issue since the last update that makes me just disconnect from the champ select phase of a game, which is Annoying

[viscid tapir]

dying to swords irl

[gritty sparrow]

I am playing a game and vision after the last patch seems

Buggy

[viscid tapir]

yeah

could just be a skill issue on my part though, was off my game the specific time I'm thinking of.

but maybe something with vision changed to accommodate the unshared vision facets

[gritty sparrow]

I mainly note because I have never had an issue with vision

But I thought it was weird in laning stage

Then I had a chance to prove it by testing in the game I'm in atm

lol

[glossy stratus]

Do any of the facets do anything Bushwack didn't?

[paper shell]

Thats a wild amount of vision lost wow

[gritty sparrow]

LC keeps saying that she can't even see the person she is dueling

[gritty sparrow]

Seems fixed already, sad

[glossy stratus]

<@&877973728997294120> https://www.dota2.com/patches/7.36b

[stark linden]

ooooh

[pearl chasm]

Anyone else unable to download the update?

[delicate jungle]

Y E A G

[stark linden]

@paper shell wd io buffs, cause extra healing

[delicate jungle]

oof

[steel forge]

Sand king suffering big time lol

Very unsurprised, he was a bit nuts

I wonder how hard they’ll have to pump sandshroud before it becomes good

Random slark buff is pretty cool

And the LC nerfs will continue until morale improves

This forced movement/knockback distinction is pretty odd

Force staff? Knockback. Psychic headband? Not knockback.

[glossy stratus]

RIP Sand King, Shadow Shaman, and Zeus

[glossy stratus]

I think knockback is a subset of forced movement?

Lightning Hands
No longer applied by Illusions
Zeus was strong, but entirely removing the new build feels excessive

[steel forge]

Im happy to see zeus suffer

Not really, but

[glossy stratus]

He absolutely deserved a heavy nerf

This just does so at the cost of locking him entirely into one build again, which makes me sad

I like build diversity

[steel forge]

That’s fair

[glossy stratus]

(Plus they really didn't need to do this and hit all his other stuff with the bat, I'm pretty sure just this put him in the dumpster already)

[hidden hazel]

You know I kinda wish they gave LC a facet that got rid of duel for something else

[glossy stratus]

I'm not really sure what the something else would be without completely changing the hero, Duel is pretty core to her whole gameplay concept

[gritty sparrow]

Aoe duel

[viscid tapir]

legion had an alternate ult in Wraith Night/Labyrinth

i think it was a big AoE that gave lifesteal and other buffs to your team

[uncut ridge]

not my secreenshot- found on tumblr, still funny

[glossy stratus]

Apparently they fixed Rosh oneshotting Big Serpent Ward (he now counts as a hero for attacks against it and normal wards)

[manic nimbus]

bat buff bat buff

I think the lightning hands needed a nerf at least

not sure it had to be fully removed as a build but it definitely needed a decent damage cut

[glossy stratus]

Oh yeah, it definitely did way too much

[karmic grove]

Another solar flare buff :)

[paper shell]

Yes this is what this needed!

[viscid tapir]

had an interesting game on phoenix recently where I got a very early BoTs 2

[paper shell]

Why bots 2?

[olive moon]

they had a tinker and tping on leshrac is really funny i guess

[viscid tapir]

yeah

team was often on the other side of the map

and I needed to be able to join them

and the faster TP is pretty invaluable

also, hot spot is a very fun facet

[glossy stratus]

I like the BoTs 1 first item, BoTs 2 seem a bit dubious for most games, but I can see it against a Tinker marching your waves

[viscid tapir]

most games probably, but this game the team was often smoking out to find enemies to pick off before a big push, so being able to join those fights directly from pushing out waves was very handy

also, Hot Spot just melts through big tanky enemies like axe or CK

plus it gives me an excuse to take the 20 HP regen talent

fire spirits damage is a little less important when I have a giant sun laser

[glossy stratus]

Mostly I'm just thinking, how many games are there where your team is so far ahead of the waves that Travels 1 + Blink + dive doesn't get you there in time?

Games with like SB/Clock/Invis heroes are probably the most common

Or strong rat, like Tinker

Also yeah Phoenix seems like it's in a real good place this meta, so much hp

(Zeus was, but probably less so now :p )

[steel forge]

Phoenix being a radiance is really something

[delicate jungle]

<@&877973728997294120> defending ancients perhaps?

[cursive wing]

My tooth hurts too much

[delicate jungle]

oof, im sorry to hear that

[glossy stratus]

I have a tree headache (and need to catch up on sleep anyway)

So not me tonight

[steel forge]

<@&877973728997294120> I require a respite from cleaning my apartment and seek a midday dote

[delicate jungle]

ye

[olive moon]

ye

[delicate jungle]

<@&877973728997294120> any more?

[light urchin]

Ehh, maybe ping me for game 2?

[delicate jungle]

you would be the fifth 👀

nvm

[delicate jungle]

@light urchinthis is game 2 but a 5th already joined

nvm theyflower is coaching

you can hop in

[light urchin]

Oh, am I still too late or?

[delicate jungle]

no

[light urchin]

Gnarly

[steel forge]

slark is such a fun hero

[paper shell]

I'd be very happy to have a skilled slark player on my team. However they always seem to be on the enemy team... and my slark always seem to want to only die alone in their jungle

[steel forge]

What if instead I die alone in our jungle

I did it

I'm no longer toxic

[glossy stratus]

Nontoxic is a word that accurately describes humans but I would be very concerned to hear used to do so

[light urchin]

I am Not venomous

[manic nimbus]

<@&877973728997294120> looking for another 2 players

[delicate jungle]

I will be on soon

~5 mins?

Maybe more

[olive moon]

i can play

[manic nimbus]

ok thats two

[steel forge]

alas, the dote has concluded 😔

[steel forge]

I played against a spoils of war legion today

it did not do anything noticeable, and not having the barrier while laning was bad

like you still have the nuke but it's a lot less impressive

[gritty sparrow]

It's very funny if you carry around someone that wants the damage

But there is a kind of small venn diagram of "someone that that damage is meaningful on" and "someone who will run around and blink in time for these duels"

[steel forge]

There was also an ursa and alchemist in their draft, so... I sorta understand the pick?

but in more than one way not taking the barrier kinda just fed me a very good slark game

[viscid tapir]

oh boy
the entire enemy team is divine 1 rank

[steel forge]

I believe in you tom

[viscid tapir]

the shiny bird has worked for me so far

and there's a pudge to melt, and a centaur and tiny to heal

[viscid tapir]

if anyone needs universal or elemental tokens, I can send them (or anything really, I have enough scrap to spare).
Playing Phoenix has served me well

[cursive wing]

healing

[steel forge]

damn, that's impressive

how long did the game run?

unrelated, I think everyone was right and I should start playing ranked

I would like to have a draft that makes any sense

[light urchin]

Hahaha

[steel forge]

I say that and then my troll warlord 4 carried the game

and by carried the game I mean it went long for no reason and they threw on high ground repeatedly so they were just a normal troll warlord

[olive moon]

<@&877973728997294120> any gamers?

[viscid tapir]

sure

[narrow wadi]

Might

[light urchin]

I can dotes

[noble tusk]

Sure I'll do some saturdota

[vapid ledge]

Gimme about 5 mins to get out of bed? Oh nvm no need

[delicate jungle]

@cursive wing do yall need a fifth?

[glossy stratus]

I still rather like Sniper for this, he doesn't mind joining fights early and you have enough range you can hit from where smoke breaks

And he loves the damage

[paper shell]

I think io works well with it too 😛

[steel forge]

shrekt speaks words of wisdom tbh

I have encountered a number of undyings who die, come back instantly, and die immediately in the same teamfight without accomplishing anything

I, on the otherhand, the perfect player, get picked, respawn immediately, then die alone again

[cursive wing]

that's really what it does

im not gonna pick oracle in soloq for a very long time

[gritty sparrow]

I have some new people that I play with that one of them is numbered immortal, and like, the things having him in our queue do to the matchmaking is hilarious

I met the best pudge I've ever seen by a long shot last night. My other friend got stomped in mid lane by an ex pro player. I got accused of being a smurf because somehow I must be smurfing to convince them to pick Underlord into my Rubick.

Just very funny games

[light urchin]

Hrmg, still have not figured out what's causing my fresh new dota issue

[steel forge]

I have played the final fish (slardar)

I do not know how to farm with him but he's otherwise super fun

his bash is such an interesting ability

[glossy stratus]

You kind of just farm with him by being tanky and hitting hard

And using your ult on the big creeps

Once you get shard crush clears waves and camps like nobody's business

[steel forge]

yeah finding out that slardar's ult is not an ult and is instead a 25 mana short cooldown debuff explained a lot

I did use that to farm and it wasn't awful

but it also didn't really make me understand how one plays slardar 1

though farm heroes is solid

[reef parcel]

<@&877973728997294120> looking for a fifth

[delicate jungle]

E

I will be on soon ish

15 min?

Out getting foods

[reef parcel]

ah well, that'll be game 2 :P

[delicate jungle]

That’s fair

[noble tusk]

I can jam

[reef parcel]

oh hell yeah meet us on fab then

[stark linden]

were on fab

[noble tusk]

O7

[cursive wing]

after this game of 100% orange juice

[reef parcel]

we got our ffth o/

[cursive wing]

o7

[delicate jungle]

ping for game 2 if you dont mind?

[karmic grove]

I could swing for a game if you're still playing, too

[reef parcel]

oh my god.

every time I mouse over it it changes

AAAAAAAAAAAA

[reef parcel]

<@&877973728997294120>

[steel forge]

wait is it changing names

[glossy stratus]

lmao that's amazing

[steel forge]

that's so good

[reef parcel]

YES

every time you mouse over it

it's a new name

[light urchin]

Incredible

[delicate jungle]

thats so cool

[hidden hazel]

Oh that's so good

[reef parcel]

me to icefrog right now https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3ZT6lPaoAIFf3x.jpg:large

tag urself i'm ornery deconstructor

[delicate jungle]

i think the cannon name is ominous discernment

thats what it is on the site

[stark linden]

Obnubilated delineator reporting in

[cursive wing]

I'm Occasionall Delerious

[noble tusk]

omg these are insane

so good but why

[karmic grove]

Oshlet Dissector

[delicate jungle]

<@&877973728997294120> more games?

[paper shell]

I’ve recently seen some things saying… support tinker might be a thing now?

[viscid tapir]

"recently"
I tried it like months ago (when it was bad)

[paper shell]

Well I mean with the new changes

[cursive wing]

20 second cool down greaves+pipe

[manic nimbus]

I assume greaves still has the debuff stoppiung you spam healing

[gritty sparrow]

Yes

The debuff is also only one second shorter than the cooldown

[glossy stratus]

I believe the debuff scales based on the cooldown

So nutinker does get to spam it

(And Morph, I suppose)

[gritty sparrow]

Right, I forgot about his thing just being pure cooldown reduction now.

Morph sadly would be unable to

His new facet gimmick is cooldown refresh, distinct from cooldown reduction

He could morph into tinker, use an active item and turn back and that would probably work to shorten the cooldown however

[glossy stratus]

Morph gets 60% CDR when morphed to strength on the new facet, no?

Wouldn't work if he shifted after, but on a support Morph who just hangs out on str it should work, I think

[gritty sparrow]

Cooldown refresh, not reduction. The debuff on guardian greaves is 1 second shorter than the cooldown of the item upon activation. The cooldown is the same on all his stuff they just come up faster, like a reverse of Time Dilation.

I am not at my computer to test this specifically but I would be shocked if somehow the debuff duration accounted for any of this and wasn't just strictly tied to the cooldown at the instance of activation

It is specifically refresh btw so that to actually get benefit from that facet you have to live your life as a squishy no damage puddle of water

[manic nimbus]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1daraty/exhaustive_list_of_every_innate_ability_and/

[cursive wing]

someone please analyze my match history and figure out what hero i should play

[viscid tapir]

Treant Protector

I knew it

guess everyone is playing Treant Protector in their ranked game this morning

[cursive wing]

lion was banned this game

[olive moon]

play bane

just gotta be better

[gritty sparrow]

No rubicks. Sad.

[cursive wing]

nightmare is way too easy to misplay around imo, i used to be a huge bane player a long time ago. but one time i dc'd for like two minutes in a game where i was basically solo carrying every fight as 5 bane and then came back to a missing barracks and after that point my bane rizzz was gone

[steel forge]

treant is a cool hero

[cursive wing]

also why i wont be picking oracle in ranked for a long time. he doesn't really do very much and requires the team to play around him to function really well

[steel forge]

I wanted to play someone who I felt very confident in if I'm playing ranked

[cursive wing]

i think the pub meta of my solo q games highly favors heroes that can win teamfights where they dive barracks while the t3 is alove

wow 2nd game in a row lion banned and we doublepick venge so i go tree

[steel forge]

I will say having played ranked for the first time people are notably more vocal

mostly for the worse, but there's some good elements to it

[paper shell]

Yeah ranked is a little weird and I find either people are vocal and coordinated and game is easy

Or people are vocal and if anything goes wrong your endlessly hear about it

[reef parcel]

https://youtu.be/yIlhquIHDic

[viscid tapir]

and I did learn that there was detection and then I did get a kill when I respawned and ran back there for a third time

[reef parcel]

- tom, learning his lesson

[steel forge]

my experience thus far has been someone on my team saying gg at 11 minutes every game we win

[viscid tapir]

lol

[steel forge]

ranked is pretty alright all told

I do appreciate having fewer drafts of oops all carries

(I say fewer because I just played against a nightstalker tidehunter lane)

[karmic grove]

I'm still deathly afraid to bring mirana carry to ranked, I'm not sure the world is truly ready

Same with offlane venge, although I need more experinece with her, anyway

[olive moon]

offlane venge is great, better when your 4 is melee/tanky hero with stun

im sure mirana carry is awful but im a huge core mirana hater so who knows

[karmic grove]

Clearly icefrog should buff solar flare again to 13/19/25

[steel forge]

alright, ranked report: this is less awful than I was worried it would be

I'm glad there is an unranked option though

[karmic grove]

Ranked Warrior Tron

[cursive wing]

who wants to guess what the outcome of this game was? (i'm lion)

[karmic grove]

Can't make an accurate prediction without seeing you finger stacks

[olive moon]

theres no way you ask that question if you didnt win

the only question is was AM ever useful or did you and axe do everything

[gritty sparrow]

Finally getting to testing this and the test was remarkably short, as the cooldown refresh is only on abilities anyways

[glossy stratus]

Yeah, it seems like it's a cooldown reduction but attribute shift adjusts the cooldowns dynamically

But abilities only

[gritty sparrow]

I feel like

There is a world where it's good

If they made the lower levels of Morph have a lower cooldown and reworked the aghs again to something less annoying

[manic nimbus]

loool

[glossy stratus]

It's such an awkward facet, the str primary attribute really kills your farming but needing to go high agi for cooldowns makes running it as support risky at best

[gritty sparrow]

Even if they made the effective uptime on your morph viable early on I don't think it'd be good for support. Your effective items would be too expensive for someone that even on normal morph your farming is only middling. I would imagine a p2 or p3 that rushes something like Octarine

Your cooldown refresh goes really well with flat cooldown reduction to the point of making some of your morphed spells really silly

[steel forge]

@glossy stratus you were right sk feels so good as an offlaner now

with even a slightly aggressive support you can just kill so much

[olive moon]

how close are you to getting a rank tron?

[steel forge]

it is 14% confident of my rank so far

so, not really

[olive moon]

oh you're like half way

it gives you a rank at 30

[steel forge]

oh

huh

that's kinda odd

I think I need to play some ogre magi

every single game I play against them they feel like the most powerful hero in the game no matter what

like, we still often win because they just get chainstunned and die

but for a support they seem like a real menace

[noble tusk]

Multicasting midas goes crazy

[steel forge]

The multicast fireblast just feels very bad to get hit with

what facet do folks usually take with them?

[paper shell]

Man there is nothing quite like walking up to a creepwave infront of your carry and multicasting the whole wave

🪙 🪙 🪙

[steel forge]

why does the the discord coin emoji have like, an ancient greek temple on it

[paper shell]

I mean thats kinda like the bank symbol yeah?

[steel forge]

ohh yeah

[paper shell]

The apple one is interesting

[steel forge]

huh

odd

[manic nimbus]

honestly

I have seen a ton of ogres do nothign

kinda opposite experience

and people usually take the no level 1 ability facet to answer your question

[steel forge]

it's possible it's a symptom of offlane initator disease where I am the one to get 4x fireblasted every fight as my job

[manic nimbus]

reasonable yeah

and I think they can be strong in lane if they can close distance reliably

I think eternal shroud hurts their damage a bunch midgame

[olive moon]

i dont think ogre's meant to be a damage hero in most games

if you're offlane you buy like arcanes midas into auras most games

maybe the new crimson guard is good on him, 2.5% of 4000 health is a lot of damage block

[manic nimbus]

Oh yeah I think 3 ogre does a lot

But I see more 4 ogre

[steel forge]

have people had success with venge as a core?

I keep running into it and it seems... bad

[gritty sparrow]

I see 5 Ogre going Learning Curve and then 4 or 3 going Fat Chance

Then sometimes still 4 gets learning curve

Great way to win your lane have a level 2 ignite at level 2

[olive moon]

tom i watched your sk go from 15/6 to 19/15

my condolences

[viscid tapir]

there's a lot of rough things happening this game

[olive moon]

im gonna sit in discord and spectate tron's slardar game

im gonna play after if anyone wants t join

[paper shell]

🤔

I was just thinking I wanted to do the same basically

[viscid trout]

I did one game with Learning curve and it felt good as a 5

Ignite is a menace in lane, and combine that with any core that has CC or gapclose that's a killing lane

speaking of meaty supports, anyone tried Undying facets out?

[steel forge]

I am putting nightstalker on my banlist good lord

or maybe I learn how to play nightstalker

[paper shell]

Turns out I was the highest networth in that game by a large margin

[glossy stratus]

That's a heck of a gap

[glossy stratus]

Now's the time to do so, his "start the game at night" facet makes him into an actual functional laner

Instead of a glorified melee creep until minute 5

Looks like I got home just in time to miss the Dotes, alas

[paper shell]

I'm sure there will be more

I have ethernet and no obligations now

So I want to play more

and Core IO is feeling quite good

[glossy stratus]

Exciting

[paper shell]

And the graph doesn't lie

[glossy stratus]

I should try Dazzle, Dazzle Io seems like a funny lane

[paper shell]

I could see it being quite annoying

[glossy stratus]

You probably realistically tether another core later on but I do want to see Dazzle Aghs + Io 25

[paper shell]

Would be funny for sure

[viscid trout]

I'd be down for a game, and I'm free now

[paper shell]

Maybe I should have taken the 400hp talent 🤔

[olive moon]

yeah i dont think the trends page can be trusted

[paper shell]

In that specific game I think the 400 extra hp might have been more valueable is all since the tether attacks weren't great with clinkz

[viscid trout]

<@&877973728997294120> anyone want to queue up for a game?

[paper shell]

Yeah I'd play

[steel forge]

I think Ill pass, I got adrenaline shakes from that slark game

[paper shell]

D:

[steel forge]

Eh it happens lol

[viscid trout]

pos1 is rough like that

[paper shell]

I had em by the end too

[steel forge]

Treads switching for 20 minutes straight is a bit taxing

[paper shell]

Thats why I skip boots

[steel forge]

Lol

[paper shell]

[manic nimbus]

I have been stomped a few times by it

Seemed like not the best raw carry stats but tons of util

[cursive wing]

she can buy sceptre

[gritty sparrow]

I think it's best as a lane bully

A venge core with the melee facet thing can outtrade a whole lot of people

The most success I've seen for it is as pos3

One of the strongest cores right now is still Lifestealer and a pos3 venge really just slaps Lifestealer to death

[viscid tapir]

it is time for the 2:30AM divine + uncalibrated + ancient 4 lobby

[cursive wing]

there's a freaking threshold where you either get like ancient 1-2s or divines its really weird

[steel forge]

okay genuine question: I'm in the offlane, and by minute 7 both my mid and safelane tower have fallen. what am I like... supposed to do to turn things around

[manic nimbus]

unfortunately its a bit of an it depends question

on which heroes you have and they have, relative farm, etc

if you can turn fights, thats an option, if you can pressure your lane to take attention away that can work but you need to be very evasive to cut, or to be able to take towers quickly

[steel forge]

ah, I was using the towers have fallen to extend to my entire team being extremely underfarmed

[manic nimbus]

if you have specific item timings you need you might have to just let things happen and try and hit them

yeah but like I guess like if your lane goes even and your other lanes crumble thats a bit different to if you are quite ahead in your lane but the others crumble

[steel forge]

mmm

I suppose "there's nothing to do" is an answer

[manic nimbus]

I mean there is always a best option

I have seen some wild comebacks

[steel forge]

true

[manic nimbus]

but I don't think there is a one size fits all best answer, it depends a bit on the specifics

[steel forge]

that's fair

this does come from a place of frustration, I'll admit, but at the same time I do feel like there's something I could be doing

[manic nimbus]

yeah I mean it sucks when it feels like everything is collapsing and there is not much you can do about it

[steel forge]

yeah I dunno

at least games that are annoying like that tend to be short

[manic nimbus]

yeah

I think if you have a decent powerspike I'd usually join the team or at least keep an eye out for good tps and stuff punishing an overextension is the best way back in the game

esp if I am on a hero that can just work out of the box pretty well

if your hero desperately needs some specific items sometimes you just gotta let people struggle the best they can and just take the farm you can before they head to your lane

also depends a bit what the team is doing

if your team is fighting its a big point towards joining those fights

but if you have like I dunno

a pos 1 with 1 component of battlefury and trying to hard farm, and a mid that is behind and also trying to hard farm

unless you can zone them out yourself I'd probably just take the farm I can because fights are unlikely to work

[cursive wing]

In games where the team is behind I will usually try to identify the next big power spike and figure out how the team can exploit

One game we had lion, sky, cent as 345 so the moment cent got blink I made sure we ran around getting pickoffs constantly

[manic nimbus]

yeah finding powerspikes is a very good general approach

[steel forge]

that makes sense

[cursive wing]

When you take a hero vs hero engagement while behind you need to have some kind of advantage. Usually an isolated hero far from enemy TP works.

[steel forge]

I have been low-prioed

my internet dropped twice back to back

[paper shell]

What did you do?!

Oh that would do it I guess

[steel forge]

yeah

[paper shell]

Well lucky for you you’re familiar with single draft

[steel forge]

Yay?

really dang annoying that the two abandons I have due to internet issues are in my ranked placement games lol

[light urchin]

yeah

[glossy stratus]

Rip :/

But hey if you want a stack for escaping low prio purgatory...

[glossy stratus]

One thing not mentioned is you can potentially avoid this by swapping lanes away from a bad matchup

(Ofc once the towers are fallen it's a bit late, but something to bear in mind)

As an offlaner you can also send your 4 off to assist while maintaining map pressure

[steel forge]

hey, semi time relevant question, how long do techies mines persit for?

[glossy stratus]

Forever, I believe

Yep, permanent

(Until they explode)

[steel forge]

huh

cool

I should be putting down more of these

[light urchin]

yeah, Always Be Mining

I do it just constantly on my way around the map as I pass little chokepoints or travel through lanes/objectives

It doesn't (usually) catch kills or anything but it keeps people on their toes

And can make pushing/farming a huge pain in the ass

[steel forge]

I got handed techies in my low prio hell, and had a great time

cool hero

[glossy stratus]

Mines are incredibly powerful in high-level play because you cannot walk past them without setting them off or killing them, including with smoke or invis

So they're one of the best vision sources in the game

But yeah the only reason to not have at least one charge of mines actively on cooldown is mana woes or if you're saving three for the blast off combo

[olive moon]

techies lane extra cool with something like shaker/centaur that walks in and sets up for your blast off

[steel forge]

yeah that was pretty awesome

[paper shell]

Techies is so fun

I miss old techies honestly

[steel forge]

what was different about old techies?

[light urchin]

Old techies was weeeird

They only had various kinds of mines

Except for their E, which actually just killed them and self-denied

[paper shell]

You could stack your ult mines

and detonate them whenever you wanted

(they were green barrels and not the proximity ones)

you also had the proximity ones as your q

So you could stack up like 5 ult mines in a spot like say rosh pit

then if someone walked into rosh

Blowthem all up at once

and kill them instantly

This made highground a nightmare for the enemy team

and also the allied team would often play 4v5 while techies dicked around placing mines

Which is why he was ultimately reworked I belive

[glossy stratus]

He was kind of miserable to play with, and extremely miserable to play against

You would be walking around and just spontaneously combust

They were an interesting, unique hero but I am not sad to never play with them again

[paper shell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9ZE2d1ROGk

This video nicely shows why he was cool but also awful

[light urchin]

yeah new techies is a lot more standardized, which is odd for dota, but ultimately prolly for the best

[viscid trout]

is timbersaw any good this patch, given the eternal shroud and shiva's changes?

[glossy stratus]

I'm pretty sure he's still top tier

[viscid trout]

by good I mean, works in more lineups