Dots and breaks
#DOTA 2
light urchin
The hero itself can just hit stoneform
gritty sparrow
Some of it is obvious of who just kills your gargoyles fast but sometimes you just go "my early game damage is all from Orchid and they have something already to cleanse off my orchid, so I don't do damage to them meaningfully"
light urchin
and it'll happen to the... nearest one I think?
gritty sparrow
Huh. Didn't know that. Realizing I have only used Gargoyles from the position of Rubick
light urchin
lmao
karmic grove
That could be funny if we can pull it together
pearl chasm
We managed the one game!
karmic grove
Got a beastmaster win 😎 very cool character, I liked being able to rat a sidelane while fighting with the team
4.5 second bkb piercing stun with timeless relic was also very funny
steel forge
Howl’s a pretty good spell huh
karmic grove
yup, nice to be on the other end of it
reef parcel
Got a beastmaster win 😎 very cool character, I liked being able to rat a sidela...
dragonborn!
karmic grove
hell yeah
I ended up getting a little tilted in the early midgame because they kept 4 man ganking the lane I was in
But when I realised I could just use a hotd creep to push the lane and not show, things went much better
light urchin
Visage is pretty fun
There's probably more shenanigans I can do with the lil buggers while just farming that i'm not, but the loop and combo feels pretty good
steel forge
Visage is really neat
light urchin
yeah! I like a little bit of funky
steel forge
I don’t know how actually similar they are but enigma fills a similar role in my brain to visage as a 3?? With summons
light urchin
Is there an easy way to flick the camera between selected units?
karmic grove
If you have them on a control group and double tap the control group key that might do it?
viscid tapir
That could be funny if we can pull it together
wc3 is in fact easy to spawn, it's convincing 10 people to come play it, and the "get everyone on a virtual LAN" that would be the hard parts
karmic grove
yeah
light urchin
ayyy
viscid tapir
nice!
karmic grove
very nice
glossy stratus
That poor poor Huskar
light urchin
Went afk midmatch
karmic grove
I should try ranked at some point, I'm sure that'll be fun 
gritty sparrow
It's cool if you want to do a specific role imo
karmic grove
Yeah, I think I want a little more familiarity with my carry pool before I dive in proper, though. I think my dusa's pretty good but I'd like to be a bit more solid on troll and pl. Also might want to grab a 4th, slightly less greedy option if I need it
light urchin
I do not have the hours to step into ranked yet lmao
viscid tapir
for what it's worth, I'm not opposed to party queuing in ranked, though the mmr spread might be pretty big
pearl chasm
anyone interested in a game or two?
karmic grove
I'd be down in like an hour, i think?
Cooling off from a fun pos5 game, my pos1 asked to marry me 😂
how to make yourself irresistible to carries
karmic grove
<@&877973728997294120> Anyone about for a game or two?
reef parcel
actually maybe, let me consult with till
stark linden
👀
glossy stratus
I could Dote
light urchin
actually maybe, let me consult with till
meeting of the minds
steel forge
I'd be up for a game 2
reef parcel
sure till and I are in
stark linden
lets go :3
paper shell
Sounds like you already have 5
south tangle
I'd be down for a game to learn how to Dota
paper shell
is it time for the later cooler stack to play 👀
reef parcel
https://www.cracked.com/article_34361_heroes-of-newerth-a-game-even-more-toxic-than-league-of-legends-is-now-dead.html @glossy stratus CW: slurs
light urchin
<@&877973728997294120> Does anybody wanna dotes?
light urchin
Enjoy that chill time!
karmic grove
<@&877973728997294120> Does anybody wanna dotes?
Kinda early for me, I'll be on later, though
glossy stratus
Likewise
karmic grove
<@&877973728997294120> Anyone about for some dota?
viscid tapir
sure!
glossy stratus
I'm getting foods rn but I'd be up for game 2
delicate jungle
Hrm perhaps
viscid tapir
i'm fine to 2 or 3 stack, but i understand if y'all aren't
karmic grove
Might hold off for a bit actually, just got hit by some ferocious tummy hurt :v
delicate jungle
pre occupied, will be avilible later
karmic grove
Ok, I have now made peace with my internal organs 😌
viscid tapir
glad to hear it
glossy stratus
I'm finishing up eating as well
karmic grove
Figured out why my troll ult wasn't working those fights. Strong dispel can't be used while hexed
glossy stratus
Oh, yeah
I think you can't use it while Feared or Taunted either
And definitely not while Silenced
karmic grove
Looks like it's a no for fears, but you can use it during taunts (except legion taunt)
karmic grove
God getting my farming patterns down in a game always feels so satisfying
steel forge
damn, sweet
karmic grove
41 minute game on troll, so pretty damn speedy. Also ended with 30k building damage :v
cursive wing
wtf I played a game of tiny offlane in ranked and my Pos4 underlord didn't find out he was supporting until I asked about his quelling blade after we grabbed runes
steel forge
<@&877973728997294120> anyone feel like a game?
light urchin
I could Dotes
viscid tapir
yes
stark linden
need a fifth 👀
steel forge
I do believe that would be 5
reef parcel
@vapid ledge
vapid ledge
b ot is throwing
reef parcel
Yeah haha thought you'd find it funny
vapid ledge
lmao perfect timing cause i'm araming in league
also it's extra funny since that's the machine translation of "bottom is throwing"
pearl chasm
Morph when they hit their timings this patch feels nutty
Just cuts down anyone who isn't building beefy
delicate jungle
I could join back in if yall really want a fifth, I’m not tilted but I’m pretty bleh
light urchin
I'm out for the night haha
I don't mind losing but those were some Exhausting games and it's late
viscid tapir
we're fine with 4 I think
if anyone else is lurking and wants to be a fifth hop on in
delicate jungle
Ok
rough sparrow
Am I hearin dotes
olive moon
<@&877973728997294120>
glossy stratus
Probably a couple hours until I can Dote
steel forge
I would be down to dota later probably
delicate jungle
sure
paper shell
🤔
viscid tapir
@delicate jungle you here?
paper shell
glossy stratus
Objective gaming
gritty sparrow
That looks like a really annoying build
Just being sprouted by a tiny skeleton I can't even see while it rats my tower
paper shell
||was a good pickup||
glossy stratus
||I picked up the rapier at the very tail end of the game.||
||Right after I bought back to pick it up 😭 ||
karmic grove
<@&877973728997294120> Anyone up for some dota?
delicate jungle
Shure
olive moon
ya
paper shell
I would be but it seems my internet just died
karmic grove
Welp, I'll go crack open a beerie in the meantime, see how it goes
gritty sparrow
Cracking open a cold dota with the beers
olive moon
ping me when ur forming party, im making food but I should hear
glossy stratus
Cracking open a cold dota with the beers
Dotaholism 😔
karmic grove
I can quit whenever I want
glossy stratus
I'll be free in an hour or so probably
karmic grove
I'll maybe ping again in half an hour then, see if we get some luck scooping up a larger stack
honest meteor
I’d be interested in watching. I’m stuck in a hotel for work. 🫠
lol if anyone happens to be in and around Joliet, IL, feel free to DM me and I'd be happy to take you out for dinner lol.
karmic grove
ok, been about half an hour, throwing out a fresh <@&877973728997294120> ping
delicate jungle
@olive moon
olive moon
ya
glossy stratus
Unfortunately looking closer to "or so", likely not free for another hour
karmic grove
If anyone else is about I think we've got one or two slots free in the stack rn
glossy stratus
@delicate jungle
<@&877973728997294120> one more slot up for auction (i.e. we need a 5th)
paper shell
🤔
viscid tapir
finishing up an arkham horror game, might be around in 10-15 minutes?
glossy stratus
Time for you two to race
cursive wing
<@&877973728997294120> one more slot up for auction (i.e. we need a 5th)
On my way!!!
viscid tapir
theyflower you're four and a half hours late
gritty sparrow
Btw while I was spectating your ability draft game
cursive wing
<@&877973728997294120> till and i are pinging up
cursive wing
Objective gaming
THAT BUILD IS SO GOOD. you get to blur and pugna blast the buildings??
also, sprout+nether blast in lane is so mean
viscid tapir
@manic nimbus you're still in voice btw
reef parcel
<@&877973728997294120> we got 3, looking to stack
steel forge
I could dota
olive moon
ok how did u both say yes befor i could stop making typos
steel forge
actually yknow what alan you take my spot I'm actually getting somewhere in rain world
@olive moon ?
olive moon
sure
steel forge
thank youu
stark linden
@delicate jungle you taking pos 1?
cursive wing
in an archipelago
karmic grove
I'd be down for game 2
steel forge
same
steel forge
<@&877973728997294120> sure we've had one dota stack, but what about second dota stack
delicate jungle
I’ve still gotta handle some stuff so, I can be back on a bit later
reef parcel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-swgwe1zl38 @manic nimbus @olive moon @stark linden @karmic grove
viscid tapir
I'll be around in 15-20 minutes if anyone's still playing
karmic grove
I'll probably be around thenish
paper shell
I could be around too
glossy stratus
Too tired for Doters tonight I'm afraid
viscid tapir
understandable
have a nice night Lark!
karmic grove
Fair does, go have a good sleep!
paper shell
is it time?
olive moon
ye
viscid tapir
light urchin
hmm
paper shell
@cursive wing https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6742799382 Apparently I queued into you a year ago
manic nimbus
I'm not sure the scoreboard can explain how stupid and weird this game was
we had no carry
our lanes were uh
skywrath supporting nyx safe, mirana mid, zues supporting sb
I tried to get them fixed to no response
I tried to build rightclick because I had no choice with this team and their builds
but we were slaughtering them so hard it worked?
I did nearly the most building damage, I was 200 below sb
serene arrow
Damn
steel forge
the 56 minute game with 76 kills is really something
gritty sparrow
Even with a sniper I am surprised Mirana didn't just, nut up and hit the towers for you all
Impressive that they have a team that should be great at murdering skywrath and you died only a single time
manic nimbus
the player quality I think was not stellar
and yeah uh, mirana built vessel agh first
so we had like actually no rightclick for ages
olive moon
i think the kaya yasha is supposed to be a parasma but looks like u crushed it, maybe rightclick sky is my new mid hero
karmic grove
but consider: building yasha kaya is funny
I like the very balanced lasthits among tills team, its quite funny
manic nimbus
parasma is a good call actually
I don't think rightclick sky is at all good
(though khanda last/second to last I think is actually pretty good)
glossy stratus
Phylactery early is exceptional vs certain heroes (blink disable on your silence), I don't hate eventually upgrading it
Khanda scales with your shard!
manic nimbus
yeah it scales quite well with the shard
I started noticing I had like 350+ right click damage at the end of later games
olive moon
played it vs bots. if you're strong enough to stand and hit, you can really do some damage with attacks
paper shell
How was chen in your bot game?
karmic grove
played it vs bots. if you're strong enough to stand and hit, you can really do s...
Did you get the rev brooch so your rightclicks benefit off arcane bolt spell lifesteal mark?
glossy stratus
What's his agi gain even?
karmic grove
0.8 💀
manic nimbus
+0.8
glossy stratus
Ah lol
I think that's close to the lowest in the game
I would have guessed like 1.2
karmic grove
Yeah, seems really bad, can't think of anyone lower off the top of my head
glossy stratus
And that doesn't help your armor
manic nimbus
I do think khanda is a nice pickup if you have already gone phylactary and you have your core items and stuff
glossy stratus
I do think khanda is a nice pickup if you have already gone phylactary and you h...
Yeah, agreed
glossy stratus
Yeah, seems really bad, can't think of anyone lower off the top of my head
Tiny, but he's a special case
karmic grove
tiny, like ogre and dusa, are cheating :v
manic nimbus
I think sky always at minimum wants like
1 mobility item, 1 catch item, agh + shard
before anything like that
plus if you are a support whatever your team needs there
glossy stratus
Definitely hard to excuse upgrading your Phylactery before you're like 4 or 5 slotted
glossy stratus
Octarine, Aghs, Wind Waker
karmic grove
Yeah, octarine is super value on sky once you've got your aghs
manic nimbus
aghs I think is essential
I think its the single biggest impact item but not the best rush item
glossy stratus
But any extra growth potential is nice, and there are absolutely games you want your Phylactery in your ending 6 items anyway
manic nimbus
I tend to go mobility item + catch item first
glossy stratus
I actually skip the catch item fairly often on Midwrath
Since more of your damage is from Arcane Bolt
More mobility and damage is my general build
manic nimbus
hmm I consider it more important on mid sky
I really really really want to be able to get picks fast
and you need the ult damage for that
glossy stratus
I'm a big fan of Phylactery + Blink, the slow is enough to land most of your ult
But also I'm a Blink addict
glossy stratus
Oh fair
glossy stratus
Yeah, sometimes want to stop by somewhere for a Euls or Kaya, but I tend towards the same
glossy stratus
Also I feel like with Sky the 5 Null Talis count as an item
manic nimbus
if you go that route lmao
glossy stratus
Big fan of "oops all Null Talis" on him, he really needs everything they provide
And in general I think stat items are undervalued, the fact that they become relevant again at 25 and you can sell them as needed is very value
karmic grove
You see them a lot in pro games where laning phase is really valued tbf. Lot of carries grabbing 2 wraithbands, or double bracer for the offlane
glossy stratus
Definitely only on Sky
karmic grove
I should probably give double wraithband more of a try, I'm just such a greedy player I usually want to hit the big items asap
glossy stratus
And sometimes another wraith band on certain cores for the farm speed
manic nimbus
I think an extra wraithband or such can be better than upgrading boots at times
I am often surprised by how long I see pros with brown boots
karmic grove
the armour on wraithband along with the stats is real nice for jungling early
glossy stratus
They're very good catchup items
karmic grove
Just like, hitting the baby camp or whatever as you're waiting for the lane to push in, it's good value
glossy stratus
Also sometimes you just need the stats to be able to fight slightly more
manic nimbus
I think the reason I like 2 is just that it lets you get benefits of your component items
for what you are making next
glossy stratus
What I'll sometimes do is get one or two early, go for an important item or two, come back for a third as the game nears 25
If you're even or slightly behind that extra bit of stats hits hard
karmic grove
Would anyone be down to play a game of dota and build the small stat items for laning prowess
viscid tapir
sure
karmic grove
May as well deploy the <@&877973728997294120> beacon
viscid tapir
was going to ask that
delicate jungle
mayb
paper shell
It is friday night, which is prime inhouse time
karmic grove
Pretty active today, we might have to go to HORUS hangout
glossy stratus
I'll be for game 2 or 3, gtg for a bit in 30mins
viscid tapir
hey there's monster hunterst there too
and some other servers regulars
manic nimbus
I think I'll pass for the moment
olive moon
Yeah, seems really bad, can't think of anyone lower off the top of my head
tiny
dammit lark got there first
manic nimbus
somehow, aftershock + nasal goo made it to the ES
isn't aftershock quills even more messed up
glossy stratus
Goo is a shorter CD
Though not sure about with cast time, last time I got it it still had the old AoE Goo Aghs
Which was just mean
viscid tapir
the outcome of that game
manic nimbus
huh really
cursive wing
the outcome of that game
how does tricks interact with split shot on a ranged hero
with aghs do you just attack 2 targets ranged and then do split shots from it?!?!
glossy stratus
Sadly without aghs it didn't split shot so I'm guessing the same is true with aghs
paper shell
glossy stratus
Ogre: Puppetmaster in disguise
(What an absolutely wild bug, I wonder if Jugg gained MMR from winning)
reef parcel
oh my god
he reflected channeling the watcher onto juggernaut
when you finish channeling a watcher, it switches to your team
you can do that to people?!
manic nimbus
wololo
stark linden
@reef parcel cant hear you if youre talking
steel forge
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/ny19jH0zSa
This is incredible
Apparently the clip shows jugg with the “lit” status effect that watchers get
reef parcel
<@140921736588689408> cant hear you if youre talking
sorry jenny, didn't see this, you posted it in the dota channel haha
karmic grove
tinker 
I'll probably throw him on my banlist, what a miserable time
Anyways, any <@&877973728997294120> people up to stack?
viscid tapir
sure!
paper shell
viscid tapir
gimme 5 minutes to finish up some stuff and i'll be on
vapid ledge
if me joining doesn't fuck up ppl's role preference, then i'm in
paper shell
We're flexible
vapid ledge
(something something relatively new and small flexibility worried about negative influence)
light urchin
I can stack!
glossy stratus
In an AD game now but I might join after
paper shell
There's a lot of more we could do with a bag if you ask me. Which no one ever does. Because why on earth would they? We're not exactly talking about geniuses are we? Honestly, there's a real lack of imagination around here.
vapid ledge
i'll have to get over it eventually but i'll have to start
karmic grove
I think dota needs more ridiculously long quotes
viscid tapir
@vapid ledge the bots have inherited your guild
viscid tapir
bots having a totally normal game of dota
viscid tapir
Normal™️
paper shell
The sf stole my rapiers
viscid tapir
with @crude bobcat
crude bobcat
It was my first matched!
viscid tapir
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/ny19jH0zSa
this bug is even weirder than the replay lets on
paper shell
Can confirm
viscid tapir
the turncoat doesn't get vision from their new team
and go to neutral team when their buff runs out
light urchin
Huh
glossy stratus
Wait what even happens on neutral
karmic grove
both teams get to attack you
but also turrets ignore you
If you die you revive where you died
glossy stratus
Can you hit both teams? Do you win or lose when one team loses?
...can you cast ally-targeted spells on everyone? Or noone?
(Also, I see I missed the Dota, rip)
paper shell
We had rough game
karmic grove
yup
paper shell
and tom apparently had to actually sleep at a reasonable time apparently
gritty sparrow
Twice last night I was forced to go a carry role on Rubick despite locking in first before anyone chose a role
First time was against someone who has played as much Tusk as I've played Rubick. Which uh, sucks.
karmic grove
Oh man the good tusk players are vicious
gritty sparrow
One of Rubicks prime counters
Your option is "Rush blink and stay away from him"
I don't even mention the second game I played core rubick last night because it was 34 to 2
Barely a real game
karmic grove
ouch
we had a game like that on the receiving end of the stomp :v
I did get to see some very impressive teamplay from the enemy laners though, so not a total loss
gritty sparrow
The last time I was on the receiving end so thoroughly was in ability draft which, only so much control I had on the events of that game mode
karmic grove
it was primal beast winter wyvern so they were able to bypass the terrain blocker on top lane and murder me whenever I tried to contest a pull
gritty sparrow
While rough that is pretty funny
glossy stratus
<@&877973728997294120> anyone for a Doat in about 10 mins?
karmic grove
Sure
reef parcel
haha may be putting out a dota ping myself soon
okay nevermind just got a 5 stack of friends
you guys have fun!!
delicate jungle
possibly
glossy stratus
you guys have fun!!
gl with your game(s)!
@karmic grove 10 mins have passed, if you want to do a 2 stack (or 3 stack if @delicate jungle opts to join)
delicate jungle
ill pass if it would just be us 3
light urchin
I can dotes!
glossy stratus
I'll be back again for a potential Dote in 45mins-1hr
manic nimbus
viscid tapir
<@&877973728997294120> would anyone like to defend of the ancient?
steel forge
I would love to defend the ancient
paper shell
I am busy for the next 2hrs or so
viscid tapir
non-zero chance I will still be up to play dota then, if you'd like to play then
cursive wing
i might
glossy stratus
I might be able to later
steel forge
steel forge
delicate jungle
Yell at me if yall need a fifth
viscid tapir
interesting LC interaction:
You can cast Overwhelming Odds while cycloned if you're duelling
if that kills your duel target, you get Press-the-Attacked, and that dispels you out of the cyclone
vapid ledge
does cyclone merely root or is the thing where Overwhelming Odds can be cast during duel overriding the no cast during cyclone rule?
viscid tapir
I think its the override
you can always cast it
you can cast it while stunned
you can cast it while silenced
you can cast it while banished
you can cast it while hexed
gritty sparrow
You're so right Tom I think we should nerf LC again
viscid tapir
also status resistance affects duel, and turns out Tinker has a cooldown reduction talent for his shield???
so if you have an alch hit an enemy enough, and the enemy has a wraith king with aghs, you can duel the enemy, kill them, win the duel, then have your duel come off cooldown in time to duel their ghost
glossy stratus
With Muerta aghs you can have a ghost duel
viscid tapir
unrelated reminder that Muertra came back from the dead because she beat Death at Artifact
steel forge
unrelated reminder that Muertra came back from the dead because she beat Death a...
impessive
did she do it with the all-meepo deck
steel forge
well, I finally worked up the nerve to solo-queue and after a false start of a match, I had a pretty good time
did some good going to lanes and ganking
steel forge
yeah, I think there's a lot of room to improve with him, but I've got the basics down pretty okay
paper shell
I feel like your ults are always pretty good
steel forge
I don't have an incredible sense of the turn radius, so I've missed a few needed stuns but otherwise I'm pretty okay with the roll
steel forge
were you mid? ive been wanting to try pango off
yeah, mid
I could see him off though
noble tusk
mids hard, well done!
glossy stratus
Between Swash and Crash you can bully mid pretty hard, and they're cheap enough to sustain with bottle, I like his laning a lot
And then there's Lucky Shot, we don't talk about Lucky Shot
steel forge
lucky shot's... not incredible
glossy stratus
There was a time when it was a disarm and Pango was just the worst to play against
steel forge
oh god lmfao
that would be so strong
one thing, not the guide I'm working off of, but some guides, have been saying to build glepnir?
noble tusk
gleipnir seems to just Be Good right now
it sets up a lot of things with the root while also offering damage/farming value
viscid tapir
There was a time when it was a disarm and Pango was just the *worst* to play aga...
there was also the time before that where it just set the target's armor to 0
and the time in between? that where it silenced I think?
(okay, it was heartpiercer when it set the armor to 0, but it was a passive proc)
steel forge
well, just got out of another very solid pango game
I need to figure out a better lategame item than overwhelming blink after I already have diffuser
steel forge
oh, basher is like, a core item for me (maybe not the best idea but the million stuns are fun)
I could probably just dump the bottle for a glepnir, yeah
I have about 0 mana regen though
viscid tapir
euls lets you roll in place for a sec and is nice mana
i like arcanes on pango too tbh
steel forge
oh I do also already have arcanes lol
my items (usually) go arcanes -> whatever the unupgraded diffuser is -> aghs
euls is interesting though
glossy stratus
Gleipnir is probably significantly worse on him now than a month ago, between the proc chabce reduction and the Swash nerf, but still solid
As Beau mentioned, it's just a Good Item
glossy stratus
I have about 0 mana regen though
Gleip gives decent int, which helps
olive moon
octarine also good
glossy stratus
Maelstrom early is also just generally really nice for wave clear
glossy stratus
octarine also good
Octarine Aghs Pango is such a nuisance
glossy stratus
It's what, 2.25s cd on crash in ball?
olive moon
I'm kinda biased, I'll build travels octarine windwaker on any hero in the game
but it's such a strong item combo
glossy stratus
As an AD player I too am an Octarine Enthusiast
glossy stratus
it sets up a lot of things with the root while also offering damage/farming valu...
Really nice stats too
karmic grove
Between Swash and Crash you can bully mid pretty hard, and they're cheap enough ...
I think the other side is that even if he loses, his aoe makes him quite good at clearing stacks and his q has enough reach that stacking your hardcamp during the laning phase isn't too tough
And his ult is just so high impact that even if you're behind you can get a good roll off, snatch up a kill or two and be back in the game
steel forge
yeah that's really what I've been feeling, he's just very consistent even in losing games
I'm a very big fan of it
olive moon
too early for <@&877973728997294120>?
delicate jungle
mmmmmmm
ive got a thing in 45
so i might be able to play if tom doesnt pick TA
steel forge
sadly my roommate is on a call
delicate jungle
(/j the actual answer is sadly probably not)
glossy stratus
I think the other side is that even if he loses, his aoe makes him quite good at...
He's also like the spirits in that he's evasive and mobile enough to create a lot of map pressure (farming aggressively, pushing in the sidelanes, occupying their jungle/triangle)
And get a lot of farm while he's at it
Sadly pathetic at hitting towers though
glossy stratus
too early for <@&877973728997294120>?
Too early for me 😔
steel forge
he's not that pathetic at towers
not really meant for it but he does have attack damage
karmic grove
he's pretty pathetic at towers
cursive wing
hi dota
karmic grove
I mean, I play troll so everyone looks pathetic to me, but still
karmic grove
Part of the issue is he doesn't build a ton of attack speed, he's melee and he likes onhit effects so you have less raw damage than you might expect (Can't manaburn towers, after all)
steel forge
yeah
cursive wing
are we talking about antimage, the hero that people meme bout only killing towers?
karmic grove
no, we're talking about pangolier
cursive wing
oh
i think the way it works there is rolling thunder kills the enemy team so that they can't defend a tower
karmic grove
yeah lol
steel forge
yeah that's what I mean lol
when my point of comparison for tower hitting is sand king, pango feels like a god in comparison
olive moon
activity 2 is free
i set the summary so hopefully the 'what are you all up to' joiners have their question answered
karmic grove
Also, I'll probably swing by for a later game
olive moon
nots not too early for me
.
glossy stratus
he's not *that* pathetic at towers
I'm genuinely struggling to think of any mid hero who's worse at hitting towers
steel forge
primal?
glossy stratus
Primal actually chunks them pretty well
steel forge
I guess he can just stand under them yeah
glossy stratus
He has a million str, so he can tank for days, and between Uproar and just high str he hits like a truck
Pango mostly relies on clearing the wave and letting his creeps do the work but basically every mid can do that
manic nimbus
I'm genuinely struggling to think of any mid hero who's *worse* at hitting tower...
sky lmao
karmic grove
tinker's pretty bad at it
glossy stratus
Sky and other supports flexing as mids like Witch Doctor are pretty terrible, yeah
Tinker can kind of tickle it but falls into the same category of "doesn't really want to be within autoattack range of tower"
gritty sparrow
I would have said tinker as possibly the worst, since he lacks early wave clear nor builds attack damage items
The best decision dota ever made was removing March of the Machines
gritty sparrow
I never played him before, though he is responsible for possibly the worst dota games I've played, in terms of enjoyment. The skill gap between me learning the game and a tinker pressing 8 buttons at once every 2.5 seconds was, stark
cursive wing
<@&877973728997294120> re ping after cool ad game
karmic grove
meathook and meatball
cursive wing
any players?
glossy stratus
I can hop on 15ish
glossy stratus
<@&877973728997294120> re ping after cool ad game
Hook into Pulverize is rude
cursive wing
Hook into Pulverize is *rude*
the real nasty combo is hook -> meteor as they get dragged -> pulverize as meteor lands on them
and i do this from sandstorm so it's hard to position against
paper shell
steel forge
question for the class: who do you think was the pos1 in this game
noble tusk
for memes i hope it was treant
steel forge
that would be the funniest answer
the real answer was I think ||Drow||
but I wasn't watching the lane too close
noble tusk
my guess was ||either drow or pl, ive seen offlane am before and its aight||
steel forge
||It was PL and Treant in the offlane, and drow and am safe||
noble tusk
||dear lord im sorry||
karmic grove
the real answer was I *think* ||Drow||
The real answer was they picked the secret bonus role of 'farm fighter'
where instead of having a core an a support they just fight each other
noble tusk
if i had a dollar for every time this happened to me in the offlane on last pick id have far too many dollars
steel forge
The real answer was they picked the secret bonus role of 'farm fighter'
you're not wrong lol
karmic grove
Anyone down for an <@&877973728997294120> game or two?
delicate jungle
mayb a bit later
viscid tapir
I'll be around in 5-10 minutes
alright I am here and will watch Sly's game while I'm waiting
glossy stratus
Prob not for an hourish for me as well
paper shell
its probably more responsible if I don't play
due to bad weather and unstable internet
gritty sparrow
alright I am here and will watch Sly's game while I'm waiting
I did all queue roles and I got mid 😦
I just want rubick
glossy stratus
Listen to the siren song of Rubick Mid
gritty sparrow
Listen to the siren song of Rubick Mid
I wish I was good enough for that, but as I have told many a people before "You aren't Topson" and that includes me
Maybe if I was mid and I just happened to notice their draft is very susceptible to Rubick and lacking in assassins that will just sit on me
I have done well on rubick p3 a few times and it incidentally worked all those times but all of those instances were just "woops our draft is fucked and we have three supports uuhhhhh I guess rubick is a core now"
gritty sparrow
You got this
steel forge
I bought travels 2 to try and push lanes
and I took ninja gear
this is fun, but also not going very well
karmic grove
had a peep into trons game and one of their teammates has an interesting build (guess the hero)
gritty sparrow
Bounty hunter
karmic grove
||Sniper||
steel forge
They have not once used the invisibility sword whatever its called
why was this game an hour long
I'm now free
karmic grove
That tidehunter had 17 minutes dead
I'm pretty sure they were griefing, I just have no idea why anyone would spend an hour griefing like that
steel forge
so, it was literally their first match ever
but they did indeed run under the enemy tower 30 seconds before the match actually started
and proceeded to go mid with the sniper
for how that game went I'm going to say I played well
karmic grove
so, it was literally their first match ever
Oh that makes more sense
steel forge
I now want to learn a hero whose actually supposed to play like that rather than just being forced into it because it was the only way any tower was ever going to fall over
karmic grove
There's a fair few heroes that can rat like that. Nature's prophet and antimage come to mind, but other people'll doubtless suggest their own. I also like chaos knight for it, he's quite fun
manic nimbus
<@&877973728997294120> Ash and I looking for another 3
stark linden
dotes
light urchin
Dotes!
karmic grove
I could be aboot
karmic grove
The troll winstreak continues, currently up to 12. This was probably my best one yet, too
steel forge
Nice
That’s so much money lmao
I need to figure out how to farm at pos1 levels, I think
At least well enough to be fucntional
I waste a lot of time just walking to camps in the wrong order I think
paper shell
Walking to camps in the right order is one of the keys to playing pos 1 well
karmic grove
Yeah, the big thing is just remembering that the map effectively resets every minute, so you want to try and think about the route you're going to take next as you get to the last camp. I usually try and be kinda far up as the minute starts so I can safely farm backwards from there
cursive wing
yeah thats really good
if you can farm contested camps right after they spawn its super good
reef parcel
<@&877973728997294120> looking for a fifth
paper shell
🤔
reef parcel
emily interested in joining us?
paper shell
omw
reef parcel
alright, in which case we don't even need to do it on pnet, we have other spaces
gritty sparrow
Winged taking Emily to the shadow realm
viscid tapir
<@&877973728997294120> shadow realm games are done, anyone up for some?
paper shell
glossy stratus
I'll be up for some in 30mins-1hr
noble tusk
I'd be down in a bit as well
steel forge
<@&877973728997294120> shadow realm games are done, anyone up for some?
I’m on my way home and would love to dota
steel forge
hey <@&877973728997294120> it's been close to an hour, how about some dota now?
viscid tapir
perfect timing
paper shell
tom and I just finished out game
noble tusk
steel forge
(I certainly didn't ping now because I saw that nosiree)
glossy stratus
I'll be like 3 more mins
paper shell
Acceptable
cursive wing
i decided to queue ranked and this happened
glossy stratus
"Position 5"
noble tusk
yeah they were great games
glossy stratus
I do feel slightly bad for telling Theyflower I would stack the triangle
Then getting distracted by the wisdom rune
And stacking it precisely 0 times the entire game
olive moon
The troll winstreak continues, currently up to 12. This was probably my best one...
if u keep having 300 more creeps than the enemy carry, you're gonna keep the winstreak going
karmic grove
Its funny you say that, latest game I had exactly 300 more than the enemy carry
I dunno what's with the pos1 players I'm against, they're too bloodthirsty. I see them enter those early fights, get a couple kills and just fail to make anything off it while I go butcher a quarter of the jungle somewhere
gritty sparrow
There are definitely cores that want to do that
But not a lot are strong right now
steel forge
man shadow shaman + pugna is mean
karmic grove
Shadow shaman can be a huge pain if there's no-one else nearby to stop the channel. He's great at getting picks on strong people who are out and alone
paper shell
And stacking it precisely 0 times the entire game
Results based dota, if we won then it was a good play
And I think team get stuff done was quite effective
reef parcel
<@&877973728997294120> hey folks we're looking for a fifth
steel forge
I heed the summons
viscid tapir
still a good boy, no griefing here
gritty sparrow
reef parcel
oh nooooooo
paper shell
still a good boy, no griefing here
What did I do?
glossy stratus
I give permission to relocate Tom to their fountain
noble tusk
seconded, but only once and it has to be a surprise
stark linden
<@&877973728997294120> looking for three more 👀
glossy stratus
Ooh, Dota
reef parcel
i'm in
karmic grove
Alright, I'm down for another <@&877973728997294120> if people are about
cursive wing
ooo
karmic grove
Wonder if we can scoop up another peep or two
vapid ledge
i can join
karmic grove
Cool, I might give the <@&877973728997294120> beacon another toot, see if anyone else is about
noble tusk
i should be down in a little bit over an hour?
paper shell
Hmm
viscid tapir
I'm around now
paper shell
IT was until something else came up
viscid tapir
ah, fair enough
paper shell
Let me know if you guys are done and I could join
vapid ledge
game 1 is done, unsure if game 2 started or not
karmic grove
The troll streak is broken, but like the mighty troll phoenix, a new troll streak will rise from the troll ashes
paper shell
As long as you have your trusty Spiro by your side the enemy totsterone filled carrys will be supressed
Sorry SB/IO
viscid tapir
lol
karmic grove
As long as you have your trusty Spiro by your side the enemy totsterone filled c...
lmaooo
I used to take spiro but I don't anymore, wasn't a huge fan of it
paper shell
I don't think I can make another joke that works with this funny anaology
I liked cyprotorone, but its not FDA approved and was an issue for when I was going to be spending time in the states
So I had to swap
karmic grove
I do estrogen cypionate injections, they've been pretty good and I don't have to take them daily like pills
paper shell
That does sound nice
🤔 Still can't think of a funny dota name combo which maybe sounds close enougj
oooh well
karmic grove
I'm sure we'll figure one out, I love terrible puns
paper shell
Io is very nice for it because I play hero and also IO is good for medical sounding names
steel forge
I try and play some nice normal shadow shaman support
instead I am pos 3 alone in lane
steel forge
I was rewarded for my pain by a real support game
I love shadow shaman, this is a great hero
karmic grove
instead I am pos 3 alone in lane
Pubs are a mystical place
cursive wing
<@&877973728997294120> gonna hop in the shower, pre-pinging while i sit mute+deafened in the dota2 waiting room https://discord.gg/vxgkjmty. let's get ready to destroy some ancients
reef parcel
back in my day we used to defend ancients
karmic grove
I would never destroy an ancient
cursive wing
<@&877973728997294120> if you join before punch finishes his poe map then you get the spot
stark linden
lol
cursive wing
we are full
glossy stratus
I would *never* destroy an ancient
Imagine if you could deny the ancient
karmic grove
Alright, I'm gonna have to give the maelstrom build a go at next time I'm up against a timber/axe as troll
the damage difference is pretty appreciable (none > enough to kill him)
glossy stratus
It synergizes nicely with your shard too
And the attack speed from Mjollnir is exactly what Troll needs
(Gleipnir is also excellent ofc)
karmic grove
The other thing I want to try at some point is dragon lance on him, since there's some neat synergy with it and your shard. Adds an extra 150 range to the axe throw zone which could be useful vs kiting comps
(also the eventual pike for extra mobility)
glossy stratus
I'm pretty dubious about the lance, the extra range on the shard does make it spooky for supports to come anywhere near the fight, but I'm not sure where it fits in your build
It's a lot of money early, and late game you have better items (it could be a blink)
karmic grove
Its 2k gold, it could potentially go where your sange normally goes if you feel you need it earlier, later it probably goes in the flex slot after bf-SnY-BkB-Boots-Satanic
SnY can sometimes be manta and bf can sometimes be maelstrom but otherwise the build is fairly locked in. I think manta's a potential pickup in the viper matchup where ideally you just manta dodge his break every time
And others where you really want the early dispel, although I usually prefer just getting satanic for that
glossy stratus
I feel like you would regret not having the status resist in a lot of games if you went lance over sange, but maybe against stuff like tomb/egg?
glossy stratus
And others where you *really* want the early dispel, although I usually prefer j...
Aghs is also an option for dispelling stuff other than silences
Mostly it feels like the benefits early would be pretty slim, and I don't think there's any game you keep it in your final six
karmic grove
I think the main thing I'm thinking is sprout, because sometimes you cut a tree down and another tree is too close so you can't squeeze out and you just have to throw your axes in ranged mode
glossy stratus
Fair point
You might go force staff first, but yeah, NP, Earthshaker, Tusk might all make it worthwhile
Particularly if you do go Maelstrom, so you don't have a tree cut later
karmic grove
Also I think I've got a pretty good grasp on how the conventional bf bkb sny troll build works so I should probably branch out a bit now
glossy stratus
TBF I think Troll is just one of the less flexible heroes in terms of item builds in general
Btw, have you considered trying Slark?
karmic grove
Yeah, I think most of the carries I play have that problem
glossy stratus
He seems like a hero you might enjoy, in that his ult is a phenomenal "get out of jail and also kill them all" card
karmic grove
I've considered it, never got round to it, he looks weird for a carry
glossy stratus
He is
I can't stand playing him
But he's also terrifying in the hands of someone who's good at him
Dispels all your CC, steals all your stats, gets more and more powerful the more he can dip in and out of the fight
Also makes their supports cry because all their wards get killed
karmic grove
I'll probably give him a shot at some point, he's a funny fish guy, how bad could it be
glossy stratus
Simply press Q 1 second before they go on you
vapid ledge
huh, double tapping WW E doesn't self-cast
odd
can one teleport with scroll when being frozen with WW E?
karmic grove
nope, it stuns you during it
vapid ledge
ah ok
paper shell
I'll probably give him a shot at some point, he's a funny fish guy, how bad coul...
I think the main issue for you will be that slark wants to be active
Though I do believe you will be able to do it, it IS different from you usually carry gameplan
He is also just happy farming but he also wants those sweet perm stacks
rough sparrow
Slark pays to be really opportunistic
He farms deceptively well, if you can’t steamroll a lane you just get to sabre and go farm stacks until you got an item or two
You just take a clarity and treadswap to spam Q/Dark Pact
Hardest mechanics on him is like… you want to chain your protections like an FFXIV rotation
One of Dark Pact/BKB/Ult/Shard needs to be on at all times or you lose fights
When you run out, you just bail from a fight
viscid tapir
<@&877973728997294120> a bit late on the ping, but anyone up for a game?
paper shell
Yeah I could in a little,
delicate jungle
im duneing
paper shell
like maybe 15 mins?
delicate jungle
so mayb 1 game later
karmic grove
Yeah I could be down
paper shell
ok am free now
viscid tapir
gritty sparrow
karmic grove
ranked continues to be an interesting time
delicate jungle
What are some easier melee 4s to play/learn how to do melee 4 on?
Since I know they function kinda differently than ranged 4s
karmic grove
I think most of them have their own weird idiosyncrasies that make them not especially straightforward. The exceptions would be ogre, who's super simple. Pudge is also relatively simple in that he mostly revolves aroundn hitting your skillshot
delicate jungle
does ogre want to get in melee though? they seem more ranged focused
paper shell
Clockwork wants to be in melee
paper shell
does ogre want to get in melee though? they seem more ranged focused
Depends a bit on how you play it, in lane you want to be whacking them after hitting the w on them
since you have high armor and regen
Spirit Breaker, while also complex is another one
A lot of melee 4s fall into the category. You can end up dying a lot if you're not careful
delicate jungle
i see
paper shell
Bounty hunter can be a 4
karmic grove
does ogre want to get in melee though? they seem more ranged focused
That's a tough question, the answer is normally how fed are you
paper shell
but falls into the other trap of if you're not being useful you're reallly usless
Earthshaker is cool
But is pretty weak in lane, and its easy to mess up your friends with fissure
karmic grove
An ogre who got some early kills and a fast midas to accelerate their items can be quite tanky, an ogre who's behind probably just wants to focus on staying on the back and stunning whoever jumps your cores
paper shell
An ogre who got some early kills and a fast midas to accelerate their items can ...
Exactly
Nyx is another melee 4
Very fun too
karmic grove
Nyx is cool, I'd recommend practicing his basic combo in the demo, though
paper shell
Yeah knowing how to do the stun + attack thing is good
karmic grove
Which is ult>spike>dagon>mind flare
paper shell
Treant is pretty simple gameplan
karmic grove
you want to be able to execute that really quickly in basically any situation, since it's what makes your hero
paper shell
you want to be able to execute that really quickly in basically any situation, s...
That and hitting a sick ravage with stun
karmic grove
nyx also makes medusa miserable since his ult is a 50% mana burn, which is funny if you're not playing medusa
paper shell
Undying is pretty good too ofc
Elder Titan is pretty complex so I wouldn't recommend him
But I suppose if you put in the work on any hero and learn them because they speak to you
Its reasonable
paper shell
Voice lines are an important part of hero choice
I personally like IO's wit
Its lost on most people
karmic grove
the beeps are relaxing, I always like playing with an io
paper shell
steel forge
Voice lines are an important part of hero choice
this is why I like pango, he has the perfect jaunty laugh
olive moon
melee 4s are hard
undying and ogre are usually played as 5 but you can run them 4 and it's only a bit weird
I think nyx and spirit breaker are probably the best for playing traditional pos 4s. also shoutout to earthshaker, that hero's super fun
glossy stratus
the beeps are relaxing, I always like playing with an io
Io would actually be the most foul-mouthed hero if you could understand what the beeps mean
This is Io
reef parcel
This is Io
LOL
delicate jungle
I think nyx and spirit breaker are probably the best for playing traditional pos...
Yeah spirit breaker seems interesting
karmic grove
I think the other thing about melee 4s is they have a pretty tough time laning if the pos3 is also a melee, but pairing up with a dp or a viper can make things more manageable
vapid ledge
ah, was about to ask if viper is a fit for 3
actually is viper more commonly played as 2 or 3?
gritty sparrow
Depends on the patch tbh
glossy stratus
He's one of the classic mids, but been seeing a fair amount of play 3 more recently
vapid ledge
was asking more so i can get a better grip of what i want to focus practicing more, viper farming or viper initiating
(not that i can't practice both in the same game)
glossy stratus
Viper's a pretty fighty hero no matter where you run him
I'd recommend prioritizing laning, then fighting, then farming
gritty sparrow
Right now his biggest farming spell, nethertoxin, is bad
If that influences the decision
glossy stratus
Since arguably the biggest strength of Viper is his lane domination
Though his ulti is also very good right now
karmic grove
I'm actually curious as to how well viper farms with a quick aghs since it doubles your skin effects at close range, there might be potential there
gritty sparrow
Much like other heroes that have a aghs that allows them to farm easier
I would hazard caution before looking at a 4200 gold item with no good building parts your farming tool
paper shell
I would hazard caution before looking at a 4200 gold item with no good building ...
Sorrowful Beeps
karmic grove
I would hazard caution before looking at a 4200 gold item with no good building ...
what do you mean, it's the perfect rush item for pl. More agi for attack speed and damage, more str for beefier illusions, more int for mana for spamming lance. It's perfect
gritty sparrow
I wish it was easier to get it first on PL. Still probably a cool move if you have certain supports to facilitate you
Rushing aghs with Grimstroke to instantly get off the lance combo is going to kill most heroes in the game that early
karmic grove
I'm actually pretty happy building it first most games, the bump to your farm speed is pretty bonkers
gritty sparrow
I maintain convinced that Diffusal is the choice but I've been outvoted on this before
karmic grove
Diffusal is very good, it just incentivises being active early which I try to avoid when I play pos1. I think its more a playstyle thing than anything else
gritty sparrow
I get diffusal and instantly go farm. I get it in part because the mana burn works on the jungle camps. And by the time I get aghs I can reliably Q a camp and walk away without needing to be there for it
karmic grove
it works on most camps, but hitting a doggie camp or an ogre camp with diffusal is irritating
Might have to experiment with early yasha, too. Yasha is phenomenal for farming thanks to the movespeed
When I play troll I like picking up yasha before bkb since the farm speed increase is normally enough to get a similar timing to just getting the bkb itself
gritty sparrow
Diffusal into manta is what I get if I need the dispel for something, so the yasha is a cool pick up
I don't think the value yasha is as good anymore without finishing it though, unless you are like, Drow.
karmic grove
I'll usually finish the yasha anyways on troll. Sange and yasha is excellent and manta's always an option if I need the dispel/there's a viper
I've been practicing my manta dodges :v
gritty sparrow
Any time I do a perfect manta dodge I just think of the black flash from JJK
karmic grove
The funniest one is manta dodging your own alch bomb, which alan told me about
glossy stratus
Have you considered Disperser for dispel on Troll? Doesn't have the dodge, but he seems like he would really appreciate the zoom
karmic grove
Disperser is nice, sometimes I buy it, but my go-to dispel is usually satanic
there's also aghs if I just want to dispel non-silences
or there's a lich or a necro or something
karmic grove
yeah, windrunner's another good candidate for getting hit, especially since most of the ones I've played against really like the ult cdr over undispellable windrun
glossy stratus
Yeah, generally the pick is uld cdr unless they have a natural dispel
steel forge
I hate to jump in, but quick question that's vaguely related to windrunner: does evasion just not do anything against AOE effects? I'm assuming yes, but
glossy stratus
I might even take it if they have a nulli, the cast range isn't great
glossy stratus
I hate to jump in, but quick question that's vaguely related to windrunner: does...
Evasion only does anything to autoattacks
karmic grove
I hate to jump in, but quick question that's vaguely related to windrunner: does...
It does nothing against aoe effects unless it's an aoe attack like pango q or tide anchor smash
which I'm pretty sure she dodges?
glossy stratus
So technically it does something to like Shadow Wave
Anchor might have true strike, not sure
But yeah definitely dodges swash
steel forge
okay so the windrunner in my game was just not pressing her buttons, I see
glossy stratus
Yeah, smash is true strike
steel forge
thanks!
glossy stratus
Actually I lied, swash also has true strike
steel forge
oh, well
glossy stratus
Do note that with aghs she gets... 40%? Physical damage resist
So that applies to non-attack physical aoes
manic nimbus
I think melee 4s require a bit more finesse and understanding of lane mechanics esp if with a melee 3
And there are not a lot of ranged 3s really
stark linden
double melee lanes can be a real pita yeah
viscid tapir
<@&877973728997294120> anyone up for some Dota?
delicate jungle
mayb
cursive wing
Yes
paper shell
Eventually
steel forge
I could dota in a bit, assuming my roommate is not being loud when I get home (Im currently on the subway)
viscid tapir
what's the ETA on that Tron?
steel forge
10–15
viscid tapir
I can now be around for game 2
game 1 just ended
glossy stratus
@cursive wing are you still here/planning to uncoach? Or shall we ping for a 5th?
viscid tapir
you have been beat usurped by Sly
paper shell
glossy stratus
Yeah that's terrifying
viscid tapir
is he okay?
paper shell
Apparenly the company added to much of the odorant and its likely a false alarm
but, they want people to call emergency line anyways
So hes probably ok, but needs to wait outside in the rain until someone shows up
which sucks
glossy stratus
Not a fun way to spend a Wednesday evening
paper shell
Yeah
paper shell
why did we pick chen 😦
paper shell
I allow the chen pick, but only because we actually played with it
I mean, drow didn't
but we did
glossy stratus
I'm not allowing it because they didn't do the blink centaurs strat
paper shell
good point
viscid tapir
<@&877973728997294120> anyone up to defend of the ancient?
glossy stratus
I'd be up for a Dota or 2
cursive wing
maybe
glossy stratus
Much better than just getting banned from home
viscid tapir
ooh, new Emily lore unlocked
paper shell
be there shortly
delicate jungle
<@&877973728997294120> need a fifth
paper shell
olive moon
ur right i need to go back to enlongenating games
karmic grove
Also after a couple rough starts I've been liking the maelstrom build more and more. I think in most cases battlefury is better, but maelstrom is good when you need hybrid damage (v axe or mars) and against heroes with passive dodge/miss like riki or pa where the early pierce can help get you through the point before you have mkb
karmic grove
my pentagon is looking quite funny since I've been spamming troll a bit
vapid ledge
lmao "have fun fighting, i'll be by their objectives if you need me"
karmic grove
Hitting towers is the only reliable way to get to max stacks so I gotta do it
olive moon
my pentagon is looking quite funny since I've been spamming troll a bit
my pentagon's pretty boring unlike your cursed triangle
karmic grove
Look at that, a well balanced player. Despicable 
olive moon
karmic grove
20 minute free troll shard 
karmic grove
lol that's so bm
light urchin
yeowch
steel forge
get his ass
karmic grove
tbf I can't imagine many situations it'd actually be practical
glossy stratus
Yeesh, that's genuinely kind of broken
glossy stratus
tbf I can't imagine many situations it'd actually be practical
It's an extra 1.4k net worth at 20 minutes on some heroes who want to be buying it then anyway
Like, if you have a 1 Weaver or Zeus that's just 3 minutes faster on all their items
karmic grove
Even then it has to be a hero which can solo torm which not too many can do
glossy stratus
No? You can just have everyone go do it, dc, have the player who gets the shard order them to attack the torm
karmic grove
Oh right I forgot you could do that lol
glossy stratus
Tbh this mostly just reminds me how little I like the RNG aspects in Dota already
Runes and neutrals as well, blegh
karmic grove
I think with zeus at least you want to hit the shard timing asap which normally just means buying it as it becomes available at 15, tho
Just because it accelerates your farm speed so much
glossy stratus
Maybe? You can just be that much closer to your Manta instead, and that's when it really kicks off
karmic grove
That may just be a playstyle thing though (the triangle of oshlet strikes again)
glossy stratus
Weaver is the one who really strikes me as ridiculous, since it accelerates his farm but based on his other items, so he doesn't want to buy it at 15, but he really needs it early
karmic grove
Yeah, weaver's definitely a big one
glossy stratus
That may just be a playstyle thing though (the triangle of oshlet strikes again)
I don't disagree, I think it's definitely most abusable on heroes where it's a farming shard (and on early fighty cores), but I think being 1400gold ahead is worth delaying your shard 5 mins on most of those
I don't think it makes that much of a difference on Zeus, you can just bring 400gold of mangos to you instead to maintain the same farm rate
karmic grove
The other thing is without lightning hands your mantas are really haggard
glossy stratus
Necro or DP can also absolutely abuse this
glossy stratus
The other thing is without lightning hands your mantas are *really* haggard
Mhmm, I think it just means you get to go the greedy "shard + manta by 20" build while also having enough money to get the killy phylactery
Maelstrom Troll probably loves it as well
karmic grove
I've been experimenting with skipping phylactery on zeus (for the manta build) and it doesn't feel terrible tbh
glossy stratus
I really dislike it
I think it's a build that feels good to play but tanks your winrate
You sacrifice so much of your ability to help your sidelanes
karmic grove
I guess it depends how tanky the enemy team is. I've only done it a couple times where the enemy has a fair few tanky cores and the extra current health damage from your rightclicks can really add up
glossy stratus
It's probably decent if you're winning both sidelanes but don't have a team comp that can capitalize off that (weak push, limited invade)
karmic grove
And yeah, I really like the improved pushing you get from going into your rightclick, since a lot of people I match with are allergic to hitting towers
glossy stratus
Yeah, I'm a big fan of right click zeus in general
I just dislike skipping phylactery specifically
karmic grove
That's fair, it does feel really good when you get a proc off
glossy stratus
It provides basically everything you need for ganking, and it's also solid for farming
glossy stratus
Makes you utterly miserable to lane against too
karmic grove
I have been deceived 😔
paper shell
That dip was from a 4 man wipe at our t1 bottom
We made sure to not let it happen again
glossy stratus
I just noticed we were stuck at 100% winrate once we got megas
Which admittedly was probably accurate
paper shell
Like maybe if all 3 of us all fountain dove
karmic grove
It's very hard to come back from megas
glossy stratus
Especially pre-30 megas
And I don't think they had anyone particularly good at clearing megas
karmic grove
There was a good game today of falcon vs xtreme where xtreme dominated the early game and almost mega'd falcon but weren't able to stick the landing and got hit by a brutal comeback
was like, 14k gold lead to xtreme and ended with a 40k lead to falcon
glossy stratus
Also they were into Io plus 3 cores who are very good at hitting buildings (Luna, Marci, Windrunner), so I'm not sure how they could leave the base without it exploding
glossy stratus
There was a good game today of falcon vs xtreme where xtreme dominated the early...
Always both satisfying and painful to watch those
karmic grove
oh yeah, definitely. It was especially sad because xtreme had a veno pick which was super dominant in the first 20 minutes or so and then got blendered after that point
as an occasional veno player I know the pain well :v
glossy stratus
Especially nowadays with a million dispels and bongo boots + disperser
Veno lategame feels so bad
I wonder if his shard makes him a counter to Slark? I don't recall if the stun is dispellable by Dark Pact
karmic grove
I wonder if his shard makes him a counter to Slark? I don't recall if the stun i...
it is :v
glossy stratus
Lol, rip
Not surprised, I'm not sure any stuns aren't dispelled by strong dispels