dark tidings (Darktide for people in the searchbar)

[fierce marten]

Atomans just killed companies of Death Guard the underhive is no joke

[clear ridge]

it's one of my many reasons for not wanting Sisters

[shrewd kite]

like, i want an admech class but the rejects are below the pay grade to get a proper tech priest so get a fuckin, technomat or servitor or some shit

[cyan depot]

Albino clones of fallen heroes of the imperium who suffer from fated bad luck

[fierce marten]

I imagine there won't be chaos marines cause the gangs just ganked all Death Guard

[clear ridge]

i keep seeing people talking about a skitarii class option

[cyan depot]

They're technically a kind of abhuman

[clear ridge]

and it has made me delighted by the thought

[clear ridge]

what a bizarre and specific theme

i fucking respect it

[fierce marten]

Skiitari vary from super combat elites to like grunt barely above a combat servitor

[cyan depot]

30 years of writing yields some strange and specific stuff in the margins

[fierce marten]

Imagine though, feline beastman /s

[silk sundial]

Admech and skittari honestly have enough differences for two different classes

[shrewd kite]

yeah, but they're pretty much always deployed as a legion, aren't they

[fierce marten]

Not always

[shrewd kite]

ok, imperial beastman is another one of those ideas. i have no idea what they would do mechanically but it would be fun to see and it would make sense in the narrative

[frank igloo]

Hadron also gets dialogue lamenting that grendyl denied her request for skitarii

[fierce marten]

They can serve in much smaller capacity like assassins or bodyguards

[frank igloo]

So theyre unlikely at this point

[clear ridge]

ah rip

[silk sundial]

Chirugeon/rejuvenant and Outland beastmaster are the two is really want to see

[frank igloo]

Some other Mechanicus class maybe but not skitarii

[quiet escarp]

Yeah, a tech-adept rather than an actual priest or skitarii makes plenty of sense

[cyan depot]

Also in defense of rejects eliteness - they're IMO fairly clearly modeled on Inquisitorial retinues which are broadly in the same "elite normal human" band as a lot of the ideas here

[silk sundial]

Or that changes when we get then because he changed his mind

[fierce marten]

Combat servitor would be funny cause it means Kayex wasn't joking or insulting you when they called you preservitors

[cyan depot]

It's actually funny to me how many of the customization options in the darktide pool are in this kit

[quiet escarp]

It's funny that these two specifically basically went straight into the Scum

[shrewd kite]

if it could use any other class' cosmetic that would be pretty sick

or, you know, any of the cosmetics that fit the body

[fierce marten]

Gotta hand it to FS, darktide is a love letter to lore with how much options just straight up are tabletop options

[clear ridge]

now if only the goobers would actually pay them

[cyan depot]

I think the penal legionnaire's mask was a zealot one a long time ago too

[quiet escarp]

I'm honestly really surprised the "Deathworld Veteran" bits went to the Scum rather than the actual veteran

[quiet escarp]

Yeah even the Hive Scum saw is straight off a Necromunda model

[cyan depot]

The DWV's pants are a veteran customization option I think

Some of them are remixed like that

[fierce marten]

Yea they moved around who would use what in tabletop for the game

Relic blade would definitely not be on the roster otherwise

[shrewd kite]

same way the zealot already has some death cult assassin cosmetics yeah

[fierce marten]

Power Falchion I'm not even sure where that comes from

[drowsy tusk]

There’s all sorts of random power stuff in 4K I assume that was they just wanted a different name for the one edged power sword

[shrewd kite]

i feel like it has to be something that showed up in some obscure supplement in reference to the Tallarn Desert Raiders

[cyan depot]

That's an IG captain sword I think

[shrewd kite]

oh wait no, i'm thinking of the scimitar, falchion is european

[fierce marten]

Oh I see

[quiet escarp]

On the topic of obscure side game lore and people not wanting space marines, hear me out

[fierce marten]

I do hope darktide continues to pump out more classes that are more niche

[cyan depot]

Slightly less similar but maybe

[fierce marten]

I want more classes that basically GW forgot

[shrewd kite]

is that...salvaged space marine armour

[cyan depot]

Big ass broadswords are common for captains though

[fierce marten]

And attention from darktide gets them new kit options

[quiet escarp]

The "definitely not certainly a space marine" Merc from Necromunda

[cyan depot]

No it's left over, that guy's an abandoned half-blood-mad Blood Angel

[fierce marten]

Necromunda gets wild

Spyre Hunter armor at times is just straight up superior and more advanced than astartes

[quiet escarp]

Actual Reject space marine

[shrewd kite]

ah yes i see the blood drop logo and the fangs!

[fierce marten]

And whatever the weird underground sea psychic creatures get that one house to make

[slender shell]

from the dialogue of the new mission it seems we might be getting more ash wastes stuff, maybe nomads coming?

[clear ridge]

those would be cool

[cyan depot]

Ash Waste Nomads would also be an amazing dark horse class

Obscure, locally relevant, and really dope looking

[fierce marten]

I would say it'd be incredibly funny if they hinted dwarves but they gave us Squats instead of Votann

[quiet escarp]

This is really my preferred option tbh, Votann don't really make sense for a lot of reasons

[cyan depot]

Actual leaguer Kin seem hard justify yeah

They're insular and untrusting and have good reasons to not talk to cops

[quiet escarp]

Whereas Necromunda squats, especially the hired guns who are equipped with generic human kit, fit more or less perfectly

[fierce marten]

I don't know 40k enough to really pull deep from super niche factions

[cyan depot]

Yeah squats or ironheads would be easier

[fierce marten]

What I would give for an iron head giant train map

[cyan depot]

I'm wracking my brain for some but it's tricky

[quiet escarp]

They're just also pretty generic, so much so that differentiating them seems like a real uphill battle

[fierce marten]

I just liked rolling steel and I'd want a bigger version of it

[drowsy tusk]

Need a train on the same scale as the one from that level in hired gun holy shit

[cyan depot]

A lot of them are hard to include for one reason or another

[quiet escarp]

Similarly for a non-Chaos beastman

[shrewd kite]

well votann are far ranging enough that they can basically end up being mercs for anyone, right? That's kinda the impression i got is that they do have scouts and renegades among them

[drowsy tusk]

The train level is by far the fucking highlight of that game

[fierce marten]

They're pretty selective on it

[shrewd kite]

but yeah, there's way too much effort put into no man's land for it to be a one off imo

[fierce marten]

Imperium discovering ironkin is just straight up AI would bode very badly for Votann

Iirc a space wolf killed a Dreadnought on the spot upon learning the pilot was bones and he had imprinted on the suit and was basically AI

I think the fleshy kin do mercenary out in groups

[slender shell]

wasn't sure if they had enough variety but looks like there are from their other kit

[cyan depot]

The leagues are very cautious about working with the imperium but there are other Kin who are less picky

Since the Leagues are led by AI and have equal members of society

[fierce marten]

And if anything if they wanted to make it happen, Grendyl is definitely a radical inquisitor with a lot of power even for an inquisitor

[quiet escarp]

Necromunda has the Ironheads who are a local group of squats who keep to themselves but also three models of squats who just live among regular humans

[silk sundial]

Outland beastmaster woukd be a cool way to put the waste aesthetics in

[fierce marten]

Grendyl is ancient even by inquisitors terms

[quiet escarp]

You could also draw from some of the other, similar human wastelander designs that are scattered around Necromunda and elsewhere

I am curious if Fatshark will ever introduce another class like Ogryn with no weapon overlap with the base roster

[cyan depot]

I am guessing no but not firmly

[fierce marten]

Tau Gue'vesa /s

[quiet escarp]

Because if they did, I could see a Combat Servitor as an option

[cyan depot]

Vespid class where you die if you don't do something MLG for 10 seconds

[clear ridge]

they need to give the ogryn dual boltguns

[fierce marten]

Storm bolter on Ogyrn though

Or a lascannon

[quiet escarp]

With one of the personalities just being "Man of Iron pretending to be a robot" ala UR-025 from Blackstone Fortress

[tough compass]

Belated, but they were pretty elite in old Necromunda right? (Though gangers might be lower tier than non-conscript Guardsmen?)

[quiet escarp]

Combat Servitors are such a staple of retinue units on the tabletop it almost feels obvious if it wasn't for the weapons

[fierce marten]

I think we know from the leaks Cryptic is going to be Necron Cryptek it only makes sense for Necrons to be awoken if we are only going deeper into the hive and Necrons have those warp pylons as for why Sefoni found a null space in the warp down there /s

I for one welcome our necron overlords

[tough compass]

<horrified> Necrons wake up!
<Happy> To be a new friendly cryptek!

[quiet escarp]

Necron Pariah coming up, it's true

[cyan depot]

I can't remember if actual Adeptus Arbites were in Munda

[tough compass]

Oh, wait. Was it enforcers?

[cyan depot]

But the local enforcers were interesting because they start off very strong

[cyan depot]

With better armor than anyone and good weapons

[clear ridge]

i want crontide...

[cyan depot]

But they lack the same "high end" as the gangs since they have trouble making money and taking unsanction weapons

So they start strong and then become embattled

[silk sundial]

I’d prefer gsc as a new faction

[soft summit]

Ash Wastes Nomads in general dont have much lore

At least to my knowledge

Or whatever you call.people who live outside of hive cities in the wastes

[tough compass]

That is pretty cool

[cyan depot]

I agree, Munda is interesting with how the power curves of gangs can change across different battles in a campaign

[soft summit]

Also isnt one of the Hive Scum background options being from the wastes?

Or at least spending time there

[fierce marten]

If you're scared of them you should not tell Necrons to wake up

[quiet escarp]

Yeah, though even in that little blurb it's mentioned as being pretty mysterious and sketchy

[fierce marten]

Rogue Trader is getting a Trazyn DLC and darktide matched Arbites with Rogue Trader therefore it's only logically the new class will be Sennet, Trazyn's Cryptek

[soft summit]

Wait no shit?

Trazyn DLC?

Does it have any companions in it

[tough compass]

Yeah, both will

[fierce marten]

Yea the necron dlc for the season 2 for rogue trader directly mentions museum curator Trazyn the Infinite

[soft summit]

Nice

Wonde what kind of companion we'll get

[fierce marten]

They call it the Necron DLC but let's be real it's the Trazyn DLC

[soft summit]

Probably not a Necron companion but one can dream

[fierce marten]

It'd be funny if we just got a random guy from Trazyn s musuem like a Pokémon starter

[soft summit]

Trazyn is the companion

[silk sundial]

Heretek maybe?

[soft summit]

If only because its, well Trazyn

Hes just like that

[tough compass]

All it says about the Trazyn DLC companion is that they have "a distinct combat style that reshapes battlefield tactics"

[soft summit]

Neat

[shrewd kite]

the game does desperately need more heretic party members

[soft summit]

The problem is of course that would be mean theyre basically locked to 1 of the 3 options

[fierce marten]

Let's see for taking this task you can have the temporary assistant of either Krork, Thunder Warrior, or Enslaver. You took too long to decide you get random daot tech priest with this volkite gun

If the new companion somehow comes from Trazyn it'd definitely be a heretic

You don't work with xenos and not be a heretic as a imperium citizen

[haughty ember]

how on earth do you paint this?

[fierce marten]

Back to darktide, imagine if we got a Tau unit.

We got Tau in darktide before another Firewarrior shooter game

[uneven turret]

tau enemy unit?

[cyan depot]

Honestly, adding her to Darktide would be one of the funniest possible options

[clear ridge]

would be a cool-ass boss

[cyan depot]

Honestly would be a real escalation of a boss too given she more or less solos 2 DW kill teams in her fiction

[fierce marten]

Really any Cryptek would be a massive jump

It's even be on for Space Marines 2, necron Cryptek are monsters

[wraith grove]

very carefully

[clear ridge]

finally, something for dragor to use his tank (and sword) on

[shrewd kite]

could be an iconoclast, but i don't think mortals really work 'with' trazyn

[brave otter]

Typically xenos companions just don't have any ranks in any of the philosophies in rogue trader
As for humans, 'heresy that's unrelated to chaos' is usually iconoclast

[soft summit]

Rogue traders are also weird

like, even in the setting themselvves

[tough compass]

Ok, but two DW teams are much weaker than Release Argenta + an Officer

[tough compass]

I think there is a hot take where Argenta should have a level in Iconoclast given her softer edges

[fierce marten]

Companions can change levels based on dialogue

Abelard goes from pure dogamatic 2 to dogmatic 2/iconclast 1 if you are iconclast towards the crew

Kibellah goes from dogmatic 2 to dogmatic 3 if you push her to stay firm to the web spinner believes

[haughty ember]

Current Argenta could also take on two dw teams

she's so cracked

[sharp pine]

This would cause my financial ruin

[fierce marten]

Considering she can like one shot a necron destroyer lord with a single bolter burst yea shes cracked

THats not accounting for her using abilities and heroics to get at least 3 more bursts and officer buffs

[shrewd kite]

argenta's a bit odd, since she's 100% burn the heretic, no treating with the xenos, abhor anyone who denies the creed, but she doesn't really care about the serfdom and mandated grinding poverty stuff

(that's more cassia's deal)

[haughty ember]

oh the imperial creed says to care for the poor

thats just doctrine

[spiral badger]

The grinding poverty isnt officially mandated in the rules, its just the natural consequences

[fierce marten]

Care enough they can do their job

Which to me is funny Imperium has better healthcare than the US, if youre not in the underhive medicaes tend to be free and readily available for like street surgery

Thats assuming a gang hasnt claimed the territory and charges you for access to the area

Still more reasonable than health insurance companies

[fierce marten]

Yea Navigator deal, but even house Orsellio is kind of stand out for being a bit harsher on the serfs than most houses

Thats kind of how like arrogant rogue traders and inquistors tend to be with like executing people for being your coffee a minute late

[sacred pagoda]

I'm finally getting around to leveling Zealot and I keep going back and forth on if I like the Thunder Hammer or not.

[mortal crystal]

If you want a Thammer but without the crippling specialization I would look at the Relic Blade

which can do Thammer things with it's sprint attack and the right build but is also a power sword

[regal pendant]

Goddamn, Loose Cannon is a fucking FREAK
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JmWWKyDOYVY

What an icon

[sacred pagoda]

This keystone doesn't seem all that good.

[mortal crystal]

Note the wording on the trigger condition

"when 25 enemies have died within 25m"

nowhere does that say you have to kill them

Meaning it's going to trigger pretty every time there's a big fight

[regal pendant]

Yeah, Blazing Piety triggers so goddamn often

It's a very simple effect but it's practically ALWAYS active because of how many enemies there are, especially at higher difficulties

It's essentially just a free +15% crit chance

Stalwart and Righteous Warrior make it a shitton better too

Boosts it to a hella nice 25% crit chance increase, replenishes half your toughness instantaneously, and gives you a not insignificant toughness regen bonus

[silk sundial]

What do people think of the uses of dependecy vs adrenaline?

[sonic elbow]

no personal experience but adrenaline seems rarely picked because a non-rampage build rarely cares for an exclusively melee use it or lose it keystone and rampage builds get more value out of dependency anyways

[silk sundial]

Thinking of trying it out on my stimm build to try and kill things with the tac axe faster to get stimm back faster

Do you guys prefer to stimm during or after rampage?

[dawn wolf]

Good news gang i finally figured out, and subdued, why i wasn't enjoying ogryn
my brain was too fixated on "oh man i ain't killing a lot that's bad"
and then i remembered if they're hitting my shield, that just means everyone else can kill 'em

[sonic elbow]

tbh you can do both at the same time

shield bash with bleed talent got hands

[fierce marten]

Blazing piety is top 2 zealot keustones, crits are very good for zealots and the other contender is Martyrdom

IR's buff is kinda real weak and like, just taking martyr and losing just a single wound of health would give you similar benefits to IR and it would get better than IR if you lose more HP

[opaque crown]

Blazing piety also doesn't specify extra crit only for melee, so all your stuff is critting more, and you can cue a lot of good stuff off of crits. That and you'll just be killing more in general

[fierce marten]

And a lot of zealots talents proc off of crits too

Also some weapons deal a ton more weak spot critical damage than regular

Like tax ax light weak spot crit deals more damage than like several heavy swings

[sonic elbow]

blazing piety suffers a lot less because they don't have to be your kills but it's a minor representative of the "please bro my stacks" thing tide game builds often have

where your build straight up can't get up off the ground on lower difficulties because enemies are too infrequent to fuel your abilities lmao

vermintide felt a lot more extreme about it, the game would get paradoxically easier at a point because suddenly you get fights lasting long enough that your things get to go

[blazing storm]

figured I should rejoin this thread now that I'm actually playing DT again

been having a lot of fun with Arbites now that I got one with good level and gear

now if only I could get some good curios

[marsh gyro]

The curios are maddening to check at Brunt's so I just check Melk 1/day for 420s and anything 380 and up, that's good enough to get by

[blazing storm]

I just want at least one (1) max roll Toughness curio please

but even with mediocre ones, it is very fun to be nearly immortal on Arbitrator so long as I get to keep hitting things

somewhat surprised for myself how much I ended up liking the shock maul and shield, I'm not usually very big on shield weapons in the tide games

[clear ridge]

i'm pretty down on the ogryn club n shield myself, even though everyone i know swears by it

i should probably buy cop one of these days

all their weapons seem like they feel so nice

[quiet escarp]

As a Ogryn main who often can't be separated from his shield, I think a big part of it is just that without it I feel like I get shot to pieces constantly

[clear ridge]

i do definitely feel that

[blazing storm]

the arbites shock maul is pretty nice, with or without shield
but especially the Exterminator Shotgun has been one of my favorites

[clear ridge]

yeah, by all accounts it's everything i want out of the combat shotgun

[blazing storm]

it does a lot of damage

[clear ridge]

every time i complain about the combat shotgun's method of deploying special ammo, everyone mentions that the exterminator does it differently

which is great

[quiet escarp]

The Arbites shotguns are probably my favourite guns in the entire game

But they also make the regular combat shotguns feel a little sad by comparison

[blazing storm]

and the Mark VIII has a nicely tight choke, and is accurate to pretty decent range too

it also gets Brittleness special ammo instead of shock

the shotpistol and shield is also pretty good, but I prefer the shotgun overall I think

[blazing storm]

it's also very fun having so much impact that I can just stagger Maulers, Ragers and Crushers with normal attacks

I have zero fear of Maulers on this build

[marsh gyro]

Arbitrator gets to use the slug combat shotgun pretty good along with the fire shotgun thanks to the cleave bonuses

[brave otter]

I really like the slug shotgun
Turning your standard shotgun into a sniper is very funny

[blazing storm]

I've also been leveling a Hive Scum gun build

and it finally feels like its coming together now

[clear ridge]

uzis scum feels ridiculously good

[blazing storm]

I'm using the stub pistols for now, but might also try subbing in the auto pistols again

[fierce marten]

Once you get vulture dodge the autopistol hive scum becomes amazing

[blazing storm]

yeah getting Vulture Dodge and Pickpocket changed things up a ton

[silk sundial]

I know that recon lasgun is often used for gun psyker builds, how would an agripinaa revolver tranquility scrier build work?

[marsh gyro]

The finesse bonus and reloading bonuses make it work pretty great, you just want like a Illisi force sword for big crowds

[silk sundial]

only crit bonus non warp weapon psyker has access to

head pop or shards could also cover for very long range targtes

[fierce marten]

Revolver is good for long range

Extremely accurate at a range

[blazing storm]

Revolver is basically a pocket sniper anyway yeah

[silk sundial]

Zarona is, Agrippaa has some issues at long ranges I find

[marsh gyro]

Yeah you gotta stand still for it to get real tiny at range and then suppression is a concern

[blazing storm]

I don't usually use the alt revolver much, so I always think of the Zarona first

[silk sundial]

Zarona is definitely the better of the two but agrippaa would be better for farming lots of crits quickly to maintain scriers gaze

Zarona is probably one of the best weapons for emergency special/elite elimination for melee builds, which is a niche most melee centric builds strongly appreciate

Agrippa has ammo issues alongside needing more shots to kill important targets and having a less effective range

But it fires decently fast and is part of the only general weapon family with a crit bonus so you can farm crit effects with it, at least in theory

Recon has held the crown of the gun psykers best friend for a while for a reason, and it’s still kinda below other builds like infernum staff

[heavy geyser]

Putting Run & Gun on the Agripiina revolver helps a lot with its bloom and shot spread, but a lot of the revolver's power comes from pairs of blessings working in synergy. I always feel like that mark needs three blessings to really shine.

Missing even one shot on a five-shot revolver because of the bloom is an enormous loss in damage potential. It wants to be tighter, but it also wants some way to enhance its crit chance to cash out the on-crit blessings.

[silk sundial]

Yeah handcsnnon with either aim crit or xryssuan roulette is a strong combo

[silk sundial]

What does rending do?

[marsh gyro]

It's a straight additive to damage to an armor type (so 30% rending brings 30% damage to carapace to 60%) except if you get more than 100% total damage the rending makes it go up by 25% the amount over 100 (e.g. at 60% damage to carapace if you get 60% rending from hand cannon crit first you get to 100% from 40% of that then the 20% extra converts to 5% for 105% total damage to carapace)

This is why the uncanny strike blessings are neat because the extra over 100% is still useful

Brittleness is just rending the whole team can use and caps at 16 stacks of 2.5% for 40% extra and adds to your rending

[mortal crystal]

there are unique forms of brittleness that can stack with normal brittleness

but they're very rare

[marsh gyro]

Yeah they took away Vet melee super brittleness so now the special super stacking brittle is the flamethrower/flame staff blessing

[mortal crystal]

The two off the top of my head are the special shell on the single target Arbites shotgun and the purple mode on the Scum's saw

[blazing storm]

yeah those can both apply Brittle

has to be the Mark VIII for the Exterminator though
the other one does shock

[fierce marten]

The big difference is rending is a buff to you and you only, while brittleness is a debuff to the enemy and everyone can benefit off of it

The everyone can benefit is self explanatory but the one odd advantage brittleness being a debuff has is that it affects the DoTs of your teammates which is generally the only way for say a Captain with a shield up to take damage

[silk sundial]

that stairwell at the start of the moebian steel mission is burtal, had more failed runs to it than the final event

[fierce marten]

You kind of have to go fast and cleave through the horde

Also not fall to basically your death of a burster sends you off, never trust being near an edge in darktide

[sonic elbow]

no railing the emperor? dang

oh there's an S

inconvenient skull placement

[silk sundial]

And get rid of the gunners and gas bombers before they shred you

[fierce marten]

Ok so railing the emperor once is OK /s

[silk sundial]

Warhammer doesn’t have an auto shotgun huh

[marsh gyro]

Ogryn Ripper can do it on 2 of 3 marks

[cyan depot]

They’re around lore wise

None in Darktide tho

[brave otter]

There is in fact the ripper gun, but it's in a bit of a sad state

[silk sundial]

Wonder if we’ll ever get new generic weapons

[blazing storm]

Melta when

It's been in the files unfinished since forever

[tough compass]

Probably when they figure out what role it will have in the game lol

[brave otter]

The idea of a melta is fascinating
I guess it'd be like the trollhammer torpedo in vermintide? Where you get like a handful of shots but you Blow Away anything other than monsters you point it at

[tough compass]

or maybe it is held back because the art team engages in vicious arguments over what the firing effects should look like

[blazing storm]

I really like Dawn of War meltas, where its just a little bit of slightly bluish heat shimmer

[brave otter]

I was thinking about that myself
I've always been in camp 'heat ray energy lance'
But the 40K games I've played (boltgun and space marine) made it a far less cool heat blast cone thing

[blazing storm]

I like those personally

[brave otter]

Fair! It's not lame
I just like death rays

But yeah in my mind meltaguns are in the same tier as like
The Hive Scum's bazooka
You have like 3 shots that are each a giant cleaving pillar of Go Away

[sacred pagoda]

Buff the Ripper and do it now.

[clear ridge]

don't buff the ripper gun

[brave otter]

Seeing how much of a monster they are in tabletop convinced me of this yes

[clear ridge]

just give ogryns a second one

all stats are the same, you just wield two at once instead

[brave otter]

lmaooooo
But yeah, Ripper Guns outdamage heavy bolters on tabletop so uhhhh
Seeeing them shoot BBs at people in Darktide is a little sad

[clear ridge]

yeah, they should be fucking shredding armor like tissue paper

[marsh gyro]

I can get behind that, Ogryn doesn't have much ranged carapace damage besides Rumbler

[hushed glade]

https://youtube.com/shorts/JldJRGMRSkg?si=DMCecY2az3y0N04e

[brave otter]

If they could tear open armor there would be a little more justification for their bad ammo efficiency at least

[sacred pagoda]

Literally called a Ripper Gun.

[silk sundial]

didn't know it was in the files

[sacred pagoda]

I want to like it more than I do, but I always find myself preferring the Kickback.

[silk sundial]

plasma pistol, handflamer, dueling spear and flail are the generic weapons I'd want to see. Then longlas/melta/powerfist for vet, anti-armor voidpierce staff for psyker and power axe, heavy bolter/mining laser/improvised weapon/knuckle dusters for ogryn, not sure what for zealot

[brave otter]

power axe would go crazy

A two handed chainaxe for Zealot would be lovely

[silk sundial]

sorry, force axe

zealot could also get chain flail

[brave otter]

Chain.... flail
I assume this exists but it scares me

[silk sundial]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chain_Flail_(Imperial)

[drowsy tusk]

I am very much of the opinion that power fist should be shared vet/zelly but that’s also partially because it’s my fav 40k weapon and want it on multiple classes

[silk sundial]

also, the vindicator for zealot

I'd make it like the flamethrower but has the grenade gauntlet propety that the main attack is melee and must be braced to shoot

[frank igloo]

We still dont have a pistol + melee in darktide

When both the tabletop and vermintide have em

[clear ridge]

vet + psyker :)

zealot just uses their regular fists

[drowsy tusk]

No

[blazing storm]

longlas is definitely something I'd wanna see

[cyan depot]

Iron Arm would be a cool power to see

[fierce marten]

We have relic blades we should have power claws

Or the power spear's white scars have

[opaque crown]

i think the thing about the ripper is that its not bad on say a gungryn build, but its not great either

its really outshone

biggest issues being its ammo consumption vs damage done

It's actually super fun to run big crit/fire build

can opener blasting crushers is a little less effective now, but also still fun

It does also work completely fine on lower difficulties when there's less to shoot

[quiet escarp]

I guess the real question is how to buff the ripper without it overlapping too much with the twinlinked stubbers

[haughty ember]

I think ogryn actually has a really good set of ranged weapons with very little overlap

[quiet escarp]

Because I have always sort of felt they were too similar

[haughty ember]

Hard to come up with stuff that really has its own niche imo

[clear ridge]

how do you f eel like it overlaps with the double stubble?

they feel quite different to me, even beyond "one is good and the other sucks"

[quiet escarp]

I guess, thinking about it, the bigger part of it is mostly just the ripper has always been kind of ass so it just feels like a worse version of the stubber which more or less performs worse at everything the stubber does except stabbing people

But I guess then the question is what should the ripper be buffed to do better than stub while still keeping a distinct niche for both

Because right now the ripper's only real advantage is conceptually better ergos but it pays for that by being a confetti launcher a lot of the time

[opaque crown]

Atm, when I run bleed and gungryn fire stacks, it shreds bosses better than the tlhs, but not as well as the rumblah

[silk sundial]

Big issue is ripper has glaring weaknesses in ammo, armor, and dealing w ranger specialists you need to build around despite how fun it is

[opaque crown]

Yeah in my experience it's biggest shortfalls are ammo and armor. It being a shotgun, long range isn't really its built in thing

It can kind of compete with tlhs with reload speed and can be a bit flex with can opener, but it still suffers

Id want more ammo and/or more damage. Or a blessing oriented around crit so that it spikes hard

Maybe boost it enough that you can can opener combo crushers again

Honestly I don't think the grenade gauntlet is in a great place either, outcompeted by the stubber and the rumblah respectively

It's melee hybrid vibe not being enough

[clear ridge]

the pilebunker hit doesn't do enough

[opaque crown]

Great way to clear space, but the ogryn isn't generally struggling to clear space

And the rumblah can handle that and kill crushes

[quiet escarp]

I feel like melee-hybrid is a pretty difficult problem to unpack

Because it demands to be balanced pretty aggressively because of all the potential utility

But then it's hard to keep it from feeling weak compared to either pure melee or pure ranged weapons

[quiet escarp]

I think more damage in close range would be ideal, make it the ogryn's anti-armor ranged weapon to counter crusher and mauler packs and then you can take an anti-horde melee

But keep the usable distance short and the ammo relatively low compared to the stubbers

[silk sundial]

kept dying on my zealot, I think I spent so much time on my scum with the long dodge perk that getting used to the block/push paradigm as primary defence is hard

also not used to using the thunder hammer

[opaque crown]

I can see the vision, though not sure if I vibe the ripper as an anti armor weapon on theming. Could be a good solution though

i feel like the ripper should, thematically, kinda be the ogryn's Infantry Autogun vibe

or the Ogryn's Lasgun I guess, in terms of being the generalist every tool

[drowsy tusk]

Honestly just make the ripper handle a bit better it’s slow as fuck to stow, brace load etc

[opaque crown]

That would be good qol

Also think at least one mark should be a sweep knife melee instead of stab

Wanna try my hand at only ripper ogryn build and live out my big ogryn tabletop life

Also sad we don't have a thunderous headbutt blitz or something for heavy busting

the rock is probably a better way to accomplish that though

[quiet escarp]

Yeah I feel like the heaviest one should probably be the one with this, so that it's main attack is more single target oriented with the back up anti chaff option

[marsh gyro]

I say just replace every ripper pellet with a bolter explosion

This will solve cleave and armor concerns

[quiet escarp]

Yeah, that's really where it feels most frustrating relative to the stubbers insofar as the lower overall damage/range/time firing feels like it should be offset by being the most comfortable Ogryn weapon, handling wise

That also makes it fit better as the Ogryn default option

[opaque crown]

every so often i bring it out for a spin just for the feels

[blazing storm]

dodges on Scum are absolutely insane

[opaque crown]

just give ogryn Desperado lol

[silk sundial]

I’m really bad at block/push stuff unfortunately
Also, I wish zealot had more fire dot nodes

[fierce marten]

Yea push is pretty key for every class playstyles

Im pretty sure like every 5th action from me is a push

[silk sundial]

I almost never block too and that’s a problem

[fierce marten]

Block depending on class is less important

I hardly ever block with zealot except for like bosses cause the things I'd want to block ignore block like mauler's and crushers

I will say dueling sword and parrying a crusher, mailer, or boss aggro'd on me feels great

[drowsy tusk]

If you’re feeling extra frame perfect during a given run you can parry demonhost attacks so you only gain the area of effect corruption

[silk sundial]

I feel like I’m doing scratch damage as zealot compared to other players but that may be since Ive not fully leveled

Either things are dead by the time I get there or I get shredded on approach

[fierce marten]

You see you can hold block during a parry and at the end of the parry iframes you immediately go into block

You can quite easily and safely parry even daemonhost

[marsh gyro]

What weapon combo are you using with the hammer?

[fierce marten]

Are you sprint sliding

One of Zealot's unique trait is you take no damage while sliding from ranged attacks and less from melee

[silk sundial]

No I admittedly rarely slide

[silk sundial]

Whatever is highest level I have so currently infantry auto gun

A pistol or flamer woukd be preferred though

[marsh gyro]

That's a pretty good combo overall because that's good for shooters while the hammer handles crowds of mooks

The light infantry autogun has pretty snappy handling and mobility with good hip fire properties for shooting on the way in

[silk sundial]

Going from light spamming like many scum weapons are good at to having to fully use the melee toolkit is a change as welll

It feels like I need half a clip to kill a scab gunner though

[marsh gyro]

after the HP buff they're surprisingly tough yeah

[warped crown]

what's the difference between the kinds of autogun?

[silk sundial]

Braced braces rather than aim down sights and has the highest magazine size, infantry is full auto with medium mag and vigilant is semi or burst and sucks

I find braced to be the best from what I’ve used

[dawn wolf]

Im a personal fan of IAG but i also have a build that makes it shine pretty well

[silk sundial]

I prefer the feel of ads to braced for whatever reason

[marsh gyro]

Yeah you can two tap a lot of mooks with good aim on the Columnus

[silk sundial]

Isn’t the hammer meant for armor breaking?

[marsh gyro]

Yeah that's what's great about the Hammer is you can charge it for single boops and you can chain heavies for crowds

Charge into light is enough to take out a plasma gunner or a gunner gunner real fast

[mortal crystal]

Tbf I've gotten all but the highest tier blocking achievement on Vet so you'd be surprised.

[blazing storm]

level and good gear does make a huge difference

[silk sundial]

Yeah I think I might just be doing dif3 too early. Dif2 doesn’t feel challenging though unfortunately

I should try the throwing knives but have been using flash bangs to try and get the eyepatch

My good scum builds struggle at dif4

Also man flamers is slow lol

Wish we had a hand flamer, a fire melee weapon and some more talents to do a fire zealot build

[blazing storm]

I also find the jump into Heresy pretty difficult on a new character usually

[blazing storm]

knives are nice, but you do really gotta hit headshots with them

[fierce marten]

If youre running blades of faith you can throw one right when you pull out the bolter or flamer and instant fire it

I like them as a 2nd ranged weapon

I can run flamer or bolter while still having a ranged instant response to specialists

[frank igloo]

a lot of zealot weapons are also light attack spam

[blazing storm]

Relic Blade whooo

[fierce marten]

In your corner, only LMB in mind

[clear ridge]

i don't think i've ever pushed on scum a single time in my life, except to kill bursters

and as scum specifically i usually just shoot them anyway

[worldly talon]

Bad luck with runs tonight

Though I like to think it's a sign I'm actually doing something right for once when I survive until the wipe as a Hive Scum and two vets and an Ogryn each go down about three or four times each

[heavy geyser]

Blocking is the setup for pushes, pushes set up push attacks and push attacks are often really good crowd clear combo starters. It's a good habit to do all three and all three are linked.

[silk sundial]

What’s the difference in use between crusher and hammer?

[cyan depot]

Crusher has less damage but more disruption by a lot

Crusher is sort of a damage amping medium damage stagger baton

Thammers are all focused on deleting tough enemies

[clear ridge]

thunder hammer my beloved...

[drowsy tusk]

Hammer no aoe but huge damage

[clear ridge]

eh, its heavies are alright aoe

not amazing, for sure

basically always slower and less cleave than you'd like

but they're acceptable

[fierce marten]

It's if you want to delete monstrosities from the game and are fine being ok at everything else

[opaque crown]

Can someone spot check me, didn't the hammer have aoe at one point in is life? For some reason I'm remembering one was big single target and the other had an explosion effect

[drowsy tusk]

No aoe on charge attack was my intent but yea, thrust big sweeps is good shit

[blazing storm]

One of the thammer marks actually has some cleave on the powered attack yeah

[tough compass]

It at one point didn't have cleave on the power attack and so a random poxwalker would get in the way of your monstrosity obliterating strike and make you very sad

(it also used to basically stun you for a short time too)

[blazing storm]

That's what I remembered about the default thammer special yeah lmao

[tough compass]

It was extra bizarre because for a while the single target THammer had a sweep heavy and the CC Thammer had a single target heavy. Which felt backwards (they eventually added a single target strikedown to the charged attack on the single target one)

[grave talon]

i fucking love the Hivescum by far my favorit class

[worldly talon]

I can't decide if I love shooty scum or stabby scum the best

One is for running around at 90mph and deleting packs of shotgunners/gunners, the other is for running around at 90mph and deleting hordes and crushers

[clear ridge]

uzis does both

[tough compass]

Though the latter gets winded after 30 seconds :V

[heavy geyser]

Chainswords can swing so fast you outpace the timer runout and stay rampaging as long as there's guys to hit

[silk sundial]

Scum is very fun

Also stim and needle scum

[opaque crown]

i do think its incredibly funny to run fast twlhs gungryn

and get celerity stim and the scum stim

and shoot so fast that the game cant keep up

[silk sundial]

Celerity stim affects rof?

[blazing storm]

attack speed does, yeah

[fierce marten]

As a martyr zealot I approve of more attack speed

Do I need all the attack speed nodes on the knife? Hell no but it was fun for a match

[opaque crown]

i kinda wish suppression was like a stacking debuff, and would last longer the more stacks you have

so that gungryn could actually disable whole gunner squads without actually killing all of them

would make the ammo expidenture feel better

[regal pendant]

...reading through a supplementary book for a TTRPG

Found this

Sounds unsettlingly familiar

Makes me think that maybe the Seer's Beloved isn't Big E, isn't a daemon, but could maybe be some strange tulpa of the Emperor that they made

[worldly talon]

My stupid headcanon is that the Seer's Beloved is the TTS Emperor watching everything he's doing like a Twitch stream

[regal pendant]

It does seem in line with the Beloved's personality

[fierce marten]

The shard of the Emp's that contained his whimsy

[sacred pagoda]

I have a dark horse idea:

Sanguinius

[quiet escarp]

How are people running their Scum Stimms? Both generally and for using for the deployable ability whose name is escaping me

The rending branch of the damage section seems really hard to pass up

[clear ridge]

maxed out with full 75s cd, rending node + cdr node

lemme check my specific cdr option

i haven't done a briefcase build yet

this is just for uzis.flac

[quiet escarp]

I've been rolling briefcase + adrenaline rush since hitting 30 after levelling with all left hand ranged side and it's felt fantastic

Though I'm really curious about the chem toxin stuff too

[clear ridge]

oh oops, i'm on reload speed, not cdr

rest of the tree's pretty bog-standard, too, as far as i know

but i haven't looked at other folks' builds

[silk sundial]

played darktide with a friend yesterday, I was arbites he was ogryn, starting at lv1
that shotgun they get is super fun huh

[marsh gyro]

It's very movie shotgun sounding

[blazing storm]

the Arbitrator shotgun?
or the Ogryn Kickback?

[silk sundial]

arbites

definetly a favorite of mine

[blazing storm]

it's very good, yeah

I'm still using it as my ranged weapon of choice on Arbitrator

[silk sundial]

however I was also playing with headphones since I was talking, and they were noise cancelling
because of that I was apparently yelling quite loud and couldn't tell since I couldn't hear myself

[blazing storm]

the Mark VIII is accurate enough even at fairly long range you can snipe fairly well with it

[silk sundial]

its basically a sniper rifle thats called a shotgun

while the other clears rooms

[silk sundial]

I can see why arbites is regarded as the best class, super strong while also getting the utility of the dog

[blazing storm]

The dog is quite handy yeah

Though I personally run Lone Wolf currently

[worldly talon]

I'm running Lone Wolf to try and knock off the last couple of penances I need

Shock mine is hard when you get two and it only comes from boxes

[dawn wolf]

Ive enjoyed lone worlf+charge+right side capstone, very tanky setup

and while dog is cool it felt like it kinda caused me to have some bad habits, noticed i was a little worse at plague hound or mutant evasion

[blazing storm]

That's what I'm doing currently as well

I haven't felt the loss of the dog too badly since I got a shotgun properly leveled to snipe things with

And the stats from LW, as well as the regenerating shock mines, are pretty nice

[silk sundial]

I have shock mine, dog coherency (the penance for this one seems bugged though sadly), bash and justice for my current build

[warped crown]

tried out arbites for myself for a bit and while i agree the class is good i think its melee weapon options are kinda uninteresting

[spiral badger]

true

[blazing storm]

they are definitely very limited in weapon selection

fortunately I like the Arbites Shock Maul, with and without shield

so it works out for me

[marsh gyro]

I say they should've made the no shield shock maul have the bully club move set complete with slaps

[worldly talon]

"FEAR, LEXBREAKERS! THE LEX HAS FOUND YOU!"

https://tenor.com/view/slap-slap-the-face-slap-in-the-face-the-slap-gif-1662083169737880659

[opaque crown]

what could they add in the future to round out the arbites while still keeping that cop energy?

stun nade launcher with good impact damage?

i know they can get a "webber' in tabletop, dont actually know what that is or if itd be useful

[heavy geyser]

I think they can use a kind of electro whip

[worldly talon]

I think a whip would be kind of difficult to do right, honestly.

[opaque crown]

Might be neat if they pulled it off

Shock knuckles

[silk sundial]

Arbites kill team team has grenade launchers, infantry stubbers and suppression rods that could be added with the first two shared with vet

Whip woukd be cool but super hard to do yeah, especially preventing it from going through walls

I’d have it shared between arbites, scum and zealot

[opaque crown]

I forget, the vets only unique weapon is the plasma right?

[clear ridge]

helbore

[fierce marten]

Power falchion and power sword

[clear ridge]

oh right, those

[fierce marten]

Oh and shovel

[clear ridge]

also a shovel, technically

but i don't count it

because ogryn also has a shovel

[fierce marten]

Ones a small shovel and ones a big shovel

[clear ridge]

yeah but they play exactly the same ime

[fierce marten]

Is it good against armor i dont play ogryn

[clear ridge]

i don't know, it didn't feel like it when i tried it but i haven't looked at its stats recently

[fierce marten]

Vet shovel has uncanny strike

[clear ridge]

ah

[opaque crown]

Folding shovel is great against armor but limited targets

Ogryn doesn't stick, vet's sticks into the target

[fierce marten]

Yea not a fan of the stick

Really is limiting at higher difficulties that just send a lot of armored units

[opaque crown]

yeah, though in its favor it can be a lifesaver against the odd crusher/mauler/zerker because of hte near guarantee stagger/stun

[haughty ember]

its solid but the pickaxe is better imo

[spiral badger]

the shovel had its heyday where it could one-shot multiple crushers if they bunched up

but crusher buffs + ogryn rework changing how some of the effects stacked ended that

[fierce marten]

I think darktide would be in a much better place if uncanny strike was nerfed similar to hvie scum's shivs version and if Carapace damage penalty was less. We wouldn't need meatshield crushers that make weapons without uncanny strike even worse just to make them stick for longer than a second

[marsh gyro]

There's only a couple weapons with Uncanny Strike and they sacrifice tangible other performance for that rending, probably the big thing in my mind is fixing the Uncanny Strike applying to DOTs like the fire staff

[fierce marten]

Uncanny and bleed, actually quite nice on havoc 40 cause bleed damage isn't affected by negative damage modifiers

[heavy geyser]

Everything goes through walls, including the enormous two-handers.

[fierce marten]

Yea you can stab someone behind cover

Or even walls

[heavy geyser]

The vet shovel sticking works in its favor, imo, because it does two hits, and the first hit sets up skullcrusher.

Headshot shovel bonks can put up big damage numbers.

[marsh gyro]

The sticky part is also a special stagger category that has a really likely chance to stagger pretty much everything not monstrosity which is nice

[silk sundial]

Exactly, but most weapons have short enough reach it doesn’t break things

Whip woukd have very high reach meanwhile

[fierce marten]

Blaze great forces word has reach

Also explosives do as well last I checked so I don't think fatshark cared about weapons that clip

[silk sundial]

boltgun is powerful but clunky

[sacred pagoda]

Lore accurate for a mortal using one.

[fierce marten]

Meanwhile zealot quickdrawing it one handed while throwing a knife

Just built different

[sacred pagoda]

Built different (faithful)

[silk sundial]

bolt pistol feels like a really good weapon for hybrid builds

[sacred pagoda]

It’s a good workhorse.

[silk sundial]

Despite scum being my main I somehow only now found out shivs have two mos

Mks stupid autocorrect

[blazing storm]

yeah

one has the double stabs on heavy, the other just has slightly bigger slashes

I like the Mk I a lot more for the strikedown heavies

[silk sundial]

The stabs are great into armor and elites

[blazing storm]

yeah

the Mk III don't really offer much in contrast I feel

[mortal crystal]

Apparently with a decent Rampage setup and stim the stabs on the MK1 are the fastest non oneshot boss buster in the game once you get to Havoc 40.

(specify Havoc 40 because below that the boss HP pools are low enough that more burst oriented options i.e. kraks plus power sword are stronger)

[silk sundial]

Ironic are a pair of improvised shivs are so good

[flint moss]

chalk that up to the people doing the improvising

[cyan depot]

Those are archeotech shivs made of forgotten Moebian structural steel, harder than adamant and able to scour tanks clearly

[silk sundial]

There’s been some definite power creep with dlc classes ans weapons

[tough compass]

Ish? People seemed to have mixed feelings on the strength of the Hive Scum

[cyan depot]

I don’t think it’s actual creep so much as like

Power floor creep

None of the DLC classes have stinkers of weapons

But they’re not really stronger than the good weapons already in the game

[marsh gyro]

In my mind it kind of has to do with limited loadout slots meaning class specific stuff kind of shines a little brighter than the class shared stuff, like Arbitrator with Combat Axe bonks real good and it competes for slots with the various mauls and shields

[flint moss]

skill floor also high for this latest class

[blazing storm]

My experience with Hive Scum so far is mostly that it feels kinda awful to play at lower levels

But that also kinda applies to everyone

But once you got some talents together it gets much better

[brave otter]

I keep on wanting to get it, but that's mostly for the bone saw
Much like how I keep wanting to get arbites but only for the shotpistol

[marsh gyro]

To be fair, the shot pistol rules

[mortal crystal]

Yeah, like the build that can do that with shivs is a fairly standard rampage hive scum build aka a glass cannon that requires you to dance in melee range when a single mistake causes you to blow up.

[silk sundial]

how do mortis trials work?

[brave otter]

What exactly are you confused about? It's essentially a wave survival mode where you get fancy extra perks every so often

[silk sundial]

is it rogue like or do you keep your build/weapons you bring in

[brave otter]

You keep your build! You just get additional perk-like abilities
Like 'you do an electric explosion when you reload' (not a real one I think but all the bonuses are like that)

[silk sundial]

shame, a true lv0 rogue like mode could be neat

like you pick a class then need to try to build coherent build with random weapon, perks and skills that you get given

be a neat way to try out things you don't usually use for your main class

[blazing storm]

Play VT2 Chaos Wastes for that

[silk sundial]

What unique weapons do you think a tech priest or skittari would get?

[brave otter]

Transonic razor and/or blade
An Assassin weapon with a shred special might be fun

[fierce marten]

Giant 2h axe

Arc thrower

[quiet escarp]

One of the flavours of Phosphor pistol would be cool, as another flame weapon

Honestly just make them a weapon that functions identically to the flare pistol from Blood

[silk sundial]

How does that function?

[flint moss]

pistol that shoots flares, so i imagine something like a blot pistol that does less damage on hit but gives burn stacks

[quiet escarp]

Essentially a pistol that shoots stacking DoT projectiles, that after dealing nearly lethal damage makes the enemy burst into flames. Alternate fire is emptying the whole magazine (in Blood it's firing eight shots at once because there's no reloading) and firing a spread of explosive projectiles

[flint moss]

that might need a small mag to be balanced

[quiet escarp]

Definitely, most of the ones on models are big old revolvers as it is thankfully

[cyan depot]

Imagine how many weapons we could get with just bolter ammo types haha

[fierce marten]

Or lasguns

I still want a hotshot Lasgun of sorts

[cyan depot]

Lasgun with a hotshot pack special would be interesting

I think there’s a pattern which can do that

[fierce marten]

I was sort of surprised hive scum didn't get like dual hand flamers

[opaque crown]

hmm what else could they give the veteran as far as unique or only shared with one, options

longlas comes to mind, grenade launcher is easy, we've all been waiting on melta

id love for them to get their own version of a heavy stubber

just call it something different just like the arbites shotgun vs the others

[sacred pagoda]

A Hellgun would be interesting if they fit it in the same way as you might a minigun in a different game.

[opaque crown]

Yeah that would be cool

[marsh gyro]

Recon Lasgun but bigger is something I can get behind

[quiet escarp]

I could also see a Hellgun working on the same heat mechanics as the Plasma gun, which I know isn't really a thing in lore but it could work as a balancing factor

The real issue is that backpacks are a cosmetic slot in Darktide

[opaque crown]

Yeah but it also means nothing is on their back by default

[quiet escarp]

I just don't think they'll ever include a weapon that would require someone to replace one of their cosmetics, unfortunately. Though ironically yeah it does also mean there's a built in backpack rig set up and there're no non-backpack cosmetics that would interfere with it

[silk sundial]

I wonder if tech priest blitzes may be built in heavy weapons

[quiet escarp]

I would love to see blitzes, or abilities even, that change something cosmetically on a new class

Especially if they're committed to having new classes that have very small pools of cosmetics anyway

[fierce marten]

If they had tech priests id want their blitz to basically be used by the mechadendrites

[cyan depot]

There’s hellguns with a magazine feed

[haughty ember]

yeah you could have a big pack rather than a backpack feed

[silk sundial]

my diffiuclty 4 games aren't having the greatest win rate unfortunately but dif 3 feels too easy

with my scum

[quiet escarp]

What level is your scum? I definitely felt that pinch when I was about midway through

[silk sundial]

30

Max level gearing up for 500 stuff

[blazing storm]

is your gear properly set up?

[opaque crown]

does an unimproved krak kill a crusher on auric?

[marsh gyro]

Nah you need the improved grenades +75% damage krak talent node to 1 shot auric/havoc crushers

[opaque crown]

ok good to know

[silk sundial]

I might just suck

[marsh gyro]

Difficulty 4 can be real tough particularly if it drops you in mid mission because that means someone dropped

Being able to blast a ton of pox walkers fast and blasting mutants fast starts to add up

Then there's the classic hive shanty, "what do you do with a dozen ragers"

[dawn wolf]

veteran when mildly inconvenienced by a crusher (there are 5 more)

[silk sundial]

Fortunately maniacs are weak to chem toxin

I always set my ranged weapon to anti maniac for a reason

[drowsy tusk]

Tbh I’m more shredder coded but yes

[silk sundial]

damnation feels so much easier as arbites than scum

[mortal crystal]

Scum is super super fragile so mistakes are instantly punished.

Arbites can face tank 3 crusher overheads without going down

[silk sundial]

there's also the dog to passively deal with problems

my damnation record on scum is probably like 25%, and yet I've yet to loose one on arbites

[blazing storm]

Arbitrator is ridiculously tanky so long as you can hit things

[fierce marten]

Arbites is a lot easier to use

You basically have to be trying or get downed by a trapper to really go down

[blazing storm]

Hive Scum you gotta keep distance and/or dodge all the time

[drowsy tusk]

<@&1042950387478560878> perhaps some tide?

[opaque crown]

yeah hive scum requires you to have developed your dodge reflexes well to stay alive i think

[quiet escarp]

Scum is a little bit like playing the game on hard (er) mode, though they do have just about enough cannon to make the glass worth it

[clear ridge]

playing scum is making everyone play on hard mode

the enemies included

[spiral badger]

Scum wants to lurk just out of enemy hurt range and deal nutso amounts of damage

If you flub you die

If youre in rhythm though youre basically invincible

[blazing storm]

Rager sneaking up on me is the bane of my existence

But that's true for most classes

[spiral badger]

And their passive dodge buffs and etc make it so you do avoid a lot of stuff other classes would get whacked by, but its active rather than passive

[blazing storm]

if you take some of the dodge stuff, your dodge distance is genuinely insane

[silk sundial]

I always take that center node for dodge distance

[fierce marten]

Just yeet yourself to the other side of the room with some hops

[warped crown]

chat
eviscerator or relic blade on zealot? having a bit of trouble choosing between the two

[blazing storm]

I slightly prefer the relic blade personally

Just because of the moveset, and the heat bar being more convenient than having to repeatedly rev up

[opaque crown]

I like em both but my heart goes out to the evis

Though I think the relic is mechanically better

And if you don't like the rev attacks that hey stuck in folks, the evis isn't for you

[marsh gyro]

Relic for burst, Eviscerator for sustain is my play

[brave otter]

I like the Eviscerator because it makes fun noises and does the shred thing

[flint moss]

it also just
swings fast (with maxed finesse anyway) in a horizontal line for headchops

executioner's (chain)sword

[brave otter]

I do like the second mark because of that vibe
Overhead heavies and vertical lights
No fuss, all is right in the world

[heavy geyser]

I'm a mk. II Relic Blade enjoyer. That's a moveset that feels like it has no end to its mastery potential. I still learn new ways to use it all the time.

I like the mk.III Heavy Eviscerator but it's cumbersome to set up rev Heavy 2 overheads. The Relic Blade uppercut has a similar niche and is just really satisfying to route into.

[sonic elbow]

relic blade puts in the work but chainsaw got sauce

[frank igloo]

Honestly part of the time i dont bother and just do heavy 1 revs, kills most enemies anyway

[heavy geyser]

Crushers are the specific case I want the overhead rev for. If you can get the horizontal headshot its not so bad but losing both the power of the vertical and the ease of not hitting an ogryn shoulder is nice.

Flowing into uppercut headshots on the Relic Blade has been real fun for me, I started going for it more specifically lately and it feels like being in a movie.

[sacred pagoda]

Had someone slagging me off for playing Arbitrator the last time I was on because it’s a “crutch” class. Made me kind of upset.

[flint moss]

that user is weak in spirit and does not warrant your attention

probably mad you were outperforming them

[clear ridge]

yeah, being the safest class and probably the strongest doesn't mean a ton in darktide, where you still need decent mechanics and team play

can't really have a 'crutch' class

[sacred pagoda]

Yeah, I wouldn’t be surviving if I was running off by myself.

If anything they just serve as an anchor for the team, more than being a crutch.

[blazing storm]

that's just scrub mentality tbh

[brave otter]

It's literally a co-op game, kill him with hammers and nail him to the cliffs

[silk sundial]

I sometimes feel bad for playing and enjoying arbites

[marsh gyro]

Nothing wrong with puppies and punching

[sonic elbow]

how quickly the people of tide forget the lessons of godbreaker bardin

(vt2 family of builds using the fact ironbreaker just passively refuses to die to go batshit aggro)

no one would ever complain about having one

tanks are largely pointless but someone cha cha sliding to crush the elite accosting you with a boulder while tanking anything trying to stop them is a whole different thing

[blazing storm]

The most impressive thing about Arbitrator is honestly that it made me not dislike a shield weapon lmao

The shock maul and shield actually feels good to use

[silk sundial]

I do enjoy stagger arby, as well as their shotgun
I want to love the dog but its implementation is akwards

kinda wish their pounce was an active you had to use

[blazing storm]

If you're not big on dog, try out Lone Wolf

Lots of stats and infinite grenades

[silk sundial]

robo dog is super cool though

[mortal crystal]

infinite shock mines are really strong

[silk sundial]

I just think they could've done it better

[mortal crystal]

as are the impact nades

[silk sundial]

the nades are fun if a mid blitz

[blazing storm]

The stagger on Arbitrator is honestly insane

[clear ridge]

it's like playing a smiker except you have no peril to manage, you can shoot while doing it, you're tankier, and it deals more damage

[blazing storm]

Now admittedly I also run Hammerblow on my weapon, but I can just casually smack around Crushers with light attacks

[clear ridge]

arby is pretty busted, yeah

very strong anchor class on basically any build

[mortal crystal]

And it bunches the entire wave of crushers up so the Hive Scum can pull out their 50th rocket of the run to blast them away

(why does Scum get 4 rockets per box like really)

[clear ridge]

only if the team actually feeds me rockets :(

[clear ridge]

because they were inferior pound-for-pound compared to the other two, and 2 base rockets is absolutely dogshit nade priority

the capacity and effect buffs were probably overboard, though

[mortal crystal]

They like triple buffed them is the thing

yeah

[sonic elbow]

is smiker still a mostly detrimental meme

[blazing storm]

Oh did the rocket used to do less damage?

[clear ridge]

yeah

[mortal crystal]

They did less damage in a smaller AoE

[clear ridge]

rocket got buffed from 2 to 3 uses

and increased aoe by like 25%

and increased damage by like 25%

[spiral badger]

it's still problematic to use at high havoc because of the prep time

[clear ridge]

yeah

which i like

they're very unwieldy

[blazing storm]

The rocket is absolutely hilarious on low diff, since blitz damage doesn't scale much

[clear ridge]

in return for being ogryn giganade but four of them

[mortal crystal]

I do really like DT nerfing things by making them have shit ergonomics.

Genuinely

[blazing storm]

It is good yeah

[clear ridge]

and they're unwieldy on a class that cannot afford that

[blazing storm]

All the weapons with stupid long ready time

[clear ridge]

having all of its sustain be tied to holding lmb or spamming sprint/slide/dodge

[mortal crystal]

or all 4 at once

[clear ridge]

so it's a genuine and terrifying moment of possibly fatal weakness

[blazing storm]

I should probably learn to slide more

[mortal crystal]

usually at 4 at once

[clear ridge]

eh, i don't

i just vulture dodge

[mortal crystal]

their melee immunity on slide is insane when used properly

[clear ridge]

and normal dodge

[blazing storm]

Real and true

[sonic elbow]

was vulture dodge fixed?

[mortal crystal]

Like, I can just run a battery through a horde and not get touched because of it

[clear ridge]

fixed?

[blazing storm]

Your ability to challenge gunners on Scum is so funny

[clear ridge]

idr/idk its bugs

[sonic elbow]

it would sometimes just blatantly not dodge

[clear ridge]

ah

[sonic elbow]

like, frame by frame video evidence of the buff being up and still eating damage

[clear ridge]

no idea

[silk sundial]

watched a class tier list a couplle days ago that bewilderingly put arbites as low and hive scum as worst

[sonic elbow]

what was the metric

it's weird because I can buy arbites being low for having a low ceiling in high dif high skill games

but hive scum has a soaring ceiling in the same conditions

[silk sundial]

seemed to be havoc effectiveness, he felt their control and tank abilities didn't make up for their lack of damage in comparison to the higher tiers and that was better for high level havok misions

[sonic elbow]

was vet ranked first

or psyker

[silk sundial]

yes, and then psyker

[mortal crystal]

Vet ranked first for infinite ammo

[silk sundial]

vet, psyker, arbites, zealot, ogryn, scum

[mortal crystal]

Scum ranked last despite also having infinite ammo

[silk sundial]

felt a bit odd tbh

scum has very high dps

[sonic elbow]

infinite ammo is Nice but barely registers next to shout spam

and grenade printing

krak grenade specifically

[mortal crystal]

true

[opaque crown]

Late comment, but I dunno about tanks being pointless

[sonic elbow]

proper tanking in darktide would be more accurately called controller

passively taking the heat just isn't a thing

[marsh gyro]

Used to be shield ogryn could handle it but there's about triple the bodies on the board there used to be

[sonic elbow]

shieldgryn with "blocks taunt" is the funniest shit ever when it summons all the shooters to him

[tough compass]

aiui, it's mostly not a thing in very high havoc levels. But otherwise, for Auric and below you where you don't need to dodge basically everything or die, it's fine

Depending on what is meant by tank

[flint moss]

tanks were popularized by WoW, in which they draw fire to keep the squishier classes safe

many games that now have them do not include this key feature

[silk sundial]

I thought the main mmo roles came from everquest?

[flint moss]

thats why i said "popularized" and not "invented"

[silk sundial]

Fair, that’s the truth with most mmo staples

[warped crown]

been trying out psyker for a bit, what's a good ranged weapon for the class?
i've seen people say the revolver, the laspistol and one of the autoguns

[clear ridge]

I've had the most success with the revolver, yeah

[marsh gyro]

When you get the staves they're all pretty neat, the non-stave stuff goes good with brain burst if you pick an autogun or lasgun and goes good with smite or assail if you pick revolver or bolt pistol

Laspistols get a funny psychic push that does build peril so be careful

[opaque crown]

I feel like taunts are pretty darn useful, especially if you've got a dedicated team

[heavy geyser]

I run the +15% damage vs enemies not targeting you talent on Zealot and any Ogryn popping taunt gives me a big damage boost on all enemies glowing red.

[flint moss]

halowette has some drip this week

[fierce marten]

Saw a funny post that the reason darktide's PC faces are ugly is because it's accurate to the tabletop's mini's faces

Fatshark's dedication to the tabletop knows no bounds

This one is one of the silliest I've seen

[quiet escarp]

I've always really liked that the Darktide faces, especially for the women. I feel like it really sells Darktides specific setting and tone

[fierce marten]

Chances are where ever you grew up in the imperium has toxins and radiation in the air that makes chernobyl seem pleasant causing all sorts of mutations, we're probably quite average in setting since I imagine none of them are well off enough to afford fancy rejuvenation stuff to look nice

[mortal crystal]

oh god the catachan

they're notoriously bad

[sonic elbow]

this is true

the canon veteran? that's not a gas mask, that's his face

[fierce marten]

Krieg would alter their faces to be a gas mask if said mutations weren't heresy so the imperium doesn't have to expend even the most miniscule cost of gas masks on them.

[shrewd kite]

plus it's not like vermintide has good-looking humans (except Kerillian i guess but elves gonna elf)

[brave otter]

Kerillian, tbh, is not a very pretty elf
It's been a while since I played but I recall a distinct uncanniness

[spiral badger]

her face is never uncovered and her eyes are intentionally uncanny yeah

[quiet escarp]

Even Kerillian isn't quite the doe eyed conventionally attractive model that a lot of fanart makes her out to be under that mask

Though that's also partly because she's realistically not wearing any make up and is sort of filthy

[spiral badger]

she has a face that could be attractive, if her eyes weren't pits of darkness

well, actually, some people are probably into that

[flint moss]

some people are into that

[fierce marten]

Meanwhile owlcat was like let's make hot 40k characters

[warped crown]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z5cfU6oLZI

[fierce marten]

I don't even need to see it to know the top 3 is femme fanatic zealot, male seer, and male loose cannon.
If it isn't then I don't need to see a wrong tier list

[brave otter]

I'm a big fan of my lady Judge Zealot

[opaque crown]

honestly, in general darktide characters in general should be ugly as sin

they're rejects, combat vets, zealots and so on, they've had less than ideal conditions, see regular combat, and don't occupy positions of vanity

[frank igloo]

wildly enough theres way too many fucking LLM mods that make poor cassia generic anime pretty

im quite happy with my loner psyker's looks, shes the prettiest of my girls

do wish non-scum classes had a long hair style that wasnt shit

[fierce marten]

Absolutely wild

Cassia despite the game calling her ugly is like a model but with claws, weird eyes, and gills(?)

The classic trope of conventionally attractive women with self esteem issues about her looks cause of a few features and everyone calls her ugly.

I think about Bg3 mods attractive granny Ethel mod that makes her look like a college student, human nose laezel mod, and scarless shadowheart mod

[blazing storm]

Cassia is already cute

[frank igloo]

agreed

[dawn wolf]

esxcuse me what
fuckin' why?

like, she's not my type but she's far from needing anything like that

[sonic elbow]

gamers

I like how that is a priority in waifu-izing her and there's no mod to remove dialogue where she wants people killed and or maimed for annoying her

[haughty ember]

we must protect the fish

[haughty ember]

remember the "designed for gamers" thing with ghosts of yotei?

[dawn wolf]

Eugh.

[haughty ember]

exactly

[fierce marten]

Shadowheart got one too

Literally conventionally attractive in every way but the face scar (and haircut) but there's a mod to remove the scar

Some people can't even handle a single "flaw" (face scars are like the most common optional customization besides piercings and tattoos because cool) on someone

I will say I like how darktide scars look like genuine damage and burns rather than extremely well placed photogenic eye/nose/cheek scar

It looks like a proper injury rather than facial marking that just makes you look better as badass/cool

[haughty ember]

Cassia does have gills and iirc her skin is supposed to be translucent rather than white

also the whole conduit to hell in her forehead

[fierce marten]

For 40k those are probably quite mild mutations for people

Mutations in hive worlds get so bad its why genestealers go unnoticed even near the latest stage

Although everyone on the ship that you meet look pretty normal so maybe the von valancious ship just is on average hot for 40k

[heavy geyser]

Is she a Voidborne or something? The people who were born during Warp transit.

[fierce marten]

Voidborn are just born in space

But yes she is one, but her mutantions probably come from being a navigator which is genetic and highly inbred but also very weird as an artificially made navigator gene

[heavy geyser]

All this separates them from world-bound Imperials and as a result, void born are considered an odd collection of misfits, strangers and ill-omened folk. Skitarii wanters are gonna be so mad when the next class drops.

[sonic elbow]

voidborn don't have much in the way of special abilities

navigators do but

Cassia being able to go off ship to cast probabilistic torsion on fools has very little precedent in other warhammer stories

and they're kinda worth their weight in gold doing their actual job

correct me if I'm wrong but navigator powers having any consistency of use is an owlcat invention

like, powers other than navigating

[blazing storm]

Their eye kills people it looks at, that is akso consistent

And it can be weaponized, but generally Navigators are way too valuable to risk being anywhere near a fight

[spiral badger]

No navigators are just weird inbred dopes already and then Cassia is the results of further experiments to increase navigator power

[heavy geyser]

Mmmmmh. Understood.

[spiral badger]

There is a voidborn in rogue trader, she's pretty cool

[heavy geyser]

Is that a tattoo needle hand?

[spiral badger]

I believe its some sort of interfacing thing

[heavy geyser]

I guess that makes more sense, even if it's not quite as cool.

[sonic elbow]

she's peak 40k

she's the comms officer so her body is naturally significantly Speaker by percentage

form follows function is the saying I believe

[flint moss]

i mean, she is a mutant/abhuman in this setting
so if those remarks about her being "ugly" are diegetic it makes sense

[dawn totem]

What sold me on her was her delivery of, "Grenaaaade!"

[frank igloo]

Personally part of the appeal of her is iconoclast romancing her and going "what the fuck thats not what good people do" and her going "oh"

Like her aide/butler guy had his tongue removed but if you go "what the fuck girl" with her he gets his tongue back. Its a nice bit of characterization

[tough compass]

You don't even have to romance her for that one

I hit a fun narrative bug in Act 3: ||if you kill the Commissar to side with Malice. And then attack Malice, the Commissar comes back to life so you can stick him in a cage. You can then kill him again if you want lol||

[haughty ember]

direct line of sight to the open eye is pretty consistently A Bad Time in other media though Cassia's level of turning entire squads into vapor isn't particularly precedented

[sonic elbow]

yeah but she's got a ton of non-eye abilities

and navigators are generally "wacky shit happens to you and the navigator doesn't know what they're doing to you either"

[tough compass]

Gameplay concessions: they had to make the fish-waifu OP for... reasons

[drowsy tusk]

<@&1042950387478560878>

[fierce marten]

Concessions being make her one of the strongest characters in the game and I'm all for it

Navigator talents tend to be bonkers for only being a single common talent

[spiral badger]

honestly the canon way to nerf her would be banning her from any mission more dangerous than a cakewallk

'cause if she dies we're fucked fucked

[fierce marten]

Yea navigator leaving the ship is a huge risk and they know it so they tend not to unless there's an important personal reason and take an army of the ship's crew with them. Let alone joining into an unknown hostile situation, that's basically unheard of unless it's desperate measures.

Tbf we're probably real stupid for a RT since we're new since that's how the game treats us and Cassia is also extremely sheltered even for a Navigator so she probably doesn't know better either.

[tough compass]

It's Star Trek away team rules tbf

The RT probably shouldn't be running around in these random missions either, ha

[fierce marten]

80% of the game a RT wouldn't be a part of since that's the scouting team's job and when they die that's when you send a small army instead of the RT unless they got personal business

[fierce marten]

Especially the ones where you go to a random planet where everyone mysteriously is dead and scouting teams disappears suddenly with hardly any hints why. Why not send the 4 most important crew members (RT, Seneschel, Engiseer, Navigator) vital to running the ship planetside to the mysterious instant death zond

[tough compass]

If some low life figures it out you might have to promote them to nobility. And there are already too many annoying nobles

[flint moss]

if i was an inquisitor i would take any excuse to execute nobles
fatshark may agree, they had that line from salzpyre

[fierce marten]

Probably in dark heresy

RT the nobles are important for your dynasty to function.
An inquisitor however cares not for profits

Usually

[dawn wolf]

minor act 1 spoilers but briefly reminded of ||how ive left the nobles on rykard to die every time in favor of the other two options ||

[waxen patio]

In my RT ttrpg group I (the RT) got called out for a duel with an ancient Luna Wolf to avoid us wasting so many lives on both sides, just a real 1v1 type deal. So I agreed and when we started the duel I had my two Arch-Militants core him with meltaguns and then I beheaded him with my power sword. Fighting fair is for chumps and I still get to take aura farming credit for defeating a space marine in a duel.

[silk sundial]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0dec90c-e406-4f03-aeb9-fe6fe4e891d1/tox-support-2
how does this iteration of my build look?

[warped crown]

i bought some aquilas cause i wanted some cosmetics
game ate my 7 dollars and didn't give me anything
is anything i can do?

[cyan depot]

Talk to steam probably?

[flint moss]

ouch yeah

[warped crown]

sounds good

nvm i was able to figure it out

[flint moss]

thats good

[warped crown]

made my zealot a lady knight

i am having a bit of trouble choosing a voice for her though
i went with fem judge for most of my time with her, and i like that voice a lot, but i also really like fem fanatic

[fierce marten]

Love that armor

I want that broad knight breastplate armor but filled to the brim with seals and canles

[heavy geyser]

fem fanatic is a really good funny psycho, but fem agitator is also extremely good and slightly underrated

A fake knight concept would pair well with a wannabe noble voice.

also, the lore lady put a common theory to the test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJn_QWjSK1Q

[brave otter]

tbh as presented, yeah
They've all got power greatswords and bolters and shit
A space marine is like
I dunno
More than a crusher but less than a plague ogryn

[heavy geyser]

Give the video a watch, she uses the tabletop rules and sets up simulations

[waxen patio]

the rejects are unbelievably over-geared and ridiculously lethal, indeed

[heavy geyser]

Their tabletop representations are geared using normal units and standard matching gear

[blazing storm]

Now I'm thinking about what a unit of Rejects might look like in tabletop rules

[heavy geyser]

That's, in the video!

[blazing storm]

Would probably be better as a killteam though

[waxen patio]

I think their tabletop representations are geared using normal units and standard matching gear

[blazing storm]

Yeah I meant as a custom unit, like the killteam units in mainline 40k

[fierce marten]

Rejects would definitely be a named unit even Grendyl doesnt have many of us

[brave otter]

Look it's midnight I'm not watching a half hour video 💀
But I respect the effort and the space marine dunking
Maybe in the morning

[blazing storm]

Probably one of each class?

[fierce marten]

I will always be dunking on ultramarines even by proxy

[blazing storm]

With a bunch of kit options for each

[brave otter]

Anyhow I should play more darktide
I'm fiending for Sisters Of Battle videogames while forgetting I already have a lady with an eviscerator and bolt pistol leveled to 30

[blazing storm]

Zealot is fun

[waxen patio]

One thing I always liked from darktide is the psyker powers, those aren't really overblown at all - psykers are actually that scary.

not being able to do all the things at once cuz no mook psyker is doing pyromancy and lightning and telekinesis and voidblasts and yadda yadda every other mission, but an individual trained psyker could in fact just be exploding people's heads from a distance

[heavy geyser]

I do hope they get another force staff someday.

[clear ridge]

i just want them to get a power axe or spear or something

blaze force halberd

[flint moss]

anyone who thinks the psyker cant kill a space marine has never played tabletop

[sonic elbow]

can a guardsman, generic psyker, a zealot, ogryn, enforcer and a ganger kill a space marine? no chance unless the psyker gets lucky

can a group of 4 that has killed 3 beasts of nurgle on their way to beat up a chaos captain, evaporating a small city's population of armed heretics as an afterthought?

the space marine is not even getting a word in

basically the question is a silly premise because what the fuck are these power levels

[flint moss]

they start out as group 1 and become group 2 if they survive

[sonic elbow]

captains are amusing power level wise

they're mostly just some guy but even discounting the shield they keep getting up after enough damage to blow up several crushers

sure comes with Nurgle but it's a bit comical

seeing how they got nothing going on otherwise, just the shield hard carrying them

[flint moss]

remember, GW breathes down fatshark's necks about details

[sonic elbow]

mildly convinced leadership goes to whoever picks up the shield off the last guy's corpse

[cyan depot]

Depends on if they space marine has a helmet and a name

[fierce marten]

If the space marine was say Titus we'd be dusted no question

Rejects have plot armor but Titus has plot armor squared

[silk sundial]

dedicated anti armor void pierce staff would be neat

[tough compass]

Pretty sure a tabletop orgyn is favored to win against a tabletop space marine if it gets close enough. They are 3W, tougher and stronger iirc.

[cyan depot]

The gulf between “tabletop space marine” and “lore space marine” is pretty huge tbf

[tough compass]

It is funny that the Moebian 6 captains all have shields. Like that's a space marine captain thing. Where did they get them all?

[tough compass]

So is the gap lore space marine and lore space marine, ha

🤔 has an ogryn and a space marine fought each other in lore?

[cyan depot]

There’s a couple of energy field types which aren’t super rare (conversion and refractor fields)

But the shields they have don’t really work like those

[frank igloo]

yes, an ogryns are fully capable of physically overpowering and killing a space marine

[cyan depot]

It’s happened some but I forget all the details

[tough compass]

Eh, I chalk it up to gameplay concessions re: it working weird

[frank igloo]

its just space marines usually have faster reflexes and better training and intellect

[tough compass]

Do normal IG captains get a shield/invul save?

[frank igloo]

even lore wise you have a space marine eating shit from a traitor guard ambush in space marine 2

during a cutscene

[tough compass]

Not even space marines are safe from cutscene incompetence

[cyan depot]

I think they could buy them in armory editions but didn’t have them base

[mortal crystal]

Maybe a forge world in the mobian domain specializes in personal shield generators.

Which is why every IG officer seems to have one.

[tough compass]

The Moebian Sixth spent their requisition on personal shield generators for their captains instead of making sure all of their troops had guns

[mortal crystal]

Or gas masks

[tough compass]

(it is a nice touch that the lieutenants don't have them)

[mortal crystal]

Lieutenants have shields?

They're noticably shittier (no health gating or much worse health gating at least)

But they have them

[tough compass]

40k is weirdly lacking in the gas mask department. There is a map in Rogue Trader that is covered in a toxic miasma and everyone just toughs it out lol

[tough compass]

Oh, huh. Maybe I didn't notice because they don't health gate. I thought they were just a red bar when they showed up in the shrine event

[tough compass]

Though I guess all the gas effects are super effective since even the arbites rebreather ability doesn't fully negate them

[quiet escarp]

40k gas masks are purely aesthetic

If there's toxic gas involved somehow it's always ultra mega deadly and nothing can protect against it, so there's not much point

[tough compass]

Maybe the STC for the filters was never recovered

[sonic elbow]

tbh it's nurgle gas, so your filters also got cancer

[quiet escarp]

Similar to Space Marine armor, ceramite is a wonder material that can protect them from falling out of space but the majority of enemies space marines fight have weapons that can punch through a foot of steel (or destroy matter atomically on contact) anyway so it evens out