dark tidings (Darktide for people in the searchbar)

[fierce marten]

Rebreather on arbites is great for that you basically ignore gas bombers

Also castigator stance lets you tank fire and you move at regular speed instead of the fire stunned speed

Now even better since allies get grace period immunity after rez so you can stand in fire to rez fine, arbites is just that good

[tough compass]

The downside is you have to stay in the fire to give it a mandatory edict

[fierce marten]

Arbites would shout the lex at a fire

And shoot it as well

[haughty ember]

I can dodge snipers on reaction since the queue is a "dodge now" prompt but the issue is when theres four snipers

[fierce marten]

Really any specialist besides hounds is an issue if there's 4 of them

[opaque crown]

Trappers my beloathed. Using the black tristar maneuver so that the third one gets ya

Turns out busters are actually helpful on high difficulties because they can kill other specialists for you

[fierce marten]

Trapper behind bulwarks

[fierce marten]

Its great when you run Flamer or flame staff and you hear a burster then fire into the horde in that direction and see a bunch of guys die

Bursters also getting people off of hounds

[worldly talon]

I'll take "Cosmetics I'd actually become a whale for, and would give vital body parts to see in-game for 500, Alec."

[fierce marten]

FS could be making bank despite the expensive cosmetics if they got the cool looking ones

And ones that actually show face

[worldly talon]

or give us the opportunity to recolor shit instead of just selling recolors of the same item

[fierce marten]

I wish

I see like Space Marines 2's armor customization and look with envy

[opaque crown]

id love to see a hellgun, or hotshot, but the problem is where would it sit between the helbore and the recon?

or for that matter the high damage lasgun

[fierce marten]

It'd want it maxed hotshot, you get one shot at a time

I imagine it's cause the game is very centered about melee but I do wish there were secondaries that could take down crushers well for some classes like psyker

Taking a melee that couldnt deal with crushers is a pain on psyker unless you go all in on brain burst

[spiral badger]

all of the staves are good at killing crushers, you just have to uh, not get flattened while they work

[fierce marten]

Are they? I feel like it takes forever to kill a crusher

And knife or DS or blaze sword can kill them way faster

[spiral badger]

yeah but the staves can kill more than one at a time

[opaque crown]

I don't know what the psykers are using but I've been seeing the lightning, the explosion, and the flame staff just disintegrating crushers somehow

[spiral badger]

also for half of them put the crusher on the floor/stunned while you work

[opaque crown]

I have not been able to replicate the effect

[spiral badger]

for voidblast you want rending shockwave

for inferno you want blaze away/penetrating flame

for electro you want warp nexus/warp flurry

inferno controls them the least but fully penetrates so it's great for mixed hordes

voidblast puts their ass on the ground so you can beat them up if they're alone or keep blasting to keep them and all their friends out of your hair

electro keeps 1-3 crushers zapped and stunned

[opaque crown]

I gotta go on the leveling my staves journey

[spiral badger]

voidstrike can work but generally kinda falls in a weird "not quite good enough at anything" pit

doesn't do more damage, doesn't clear enough, doesn't knock down reliably enough

still fine though

and very funny to run with surge/warp nexus

[opaque crown]

It used to be so strong lol

It does have the benefit of being a generalist, and it IS cool to throw explosions

[worldly talon]

They might be running BB

Because with the rework the ability that procs a BB on hitting a special now has a 100% chance to trigger with a cooldown

Rather than being a set low chance

[fierce marten]

Maybe I'm just used to zealot being really good at killing crushers

[cyan depot]

That may be a factor

Psyker ranged is usually kinda funky in exchange for infinite ammo

[waxen patio]

I'm too much of a sucker for infinite ammo options to not gravitate to psyker tools (or Sienna in vermintide)

[fierce marten]

Well zealot has one infinite ranged option in the form of blades of faith

Replenishes on melee kills to elites and specialists it should be super easy to get it back

[ionic tusk]

I think zealot is the only class without access to rending talents so they might be the worst class at killing crushers now heheho

tho u can slap an uncanny ds4 on any build and it will do better than basically any other weapon

[fierce marten]

They got wild damage buffs to compensate

Also that

DS 2 shots crushers and knife like 5 attacks

[ionic tusk]

I think vet has more damage buffs now, not sure tho

[marsh gyro]

Zealot charge counts as a rending talent for me

[fierce marten]

Shroudfield too

[ionic tusk]

mm
I don't really see that as a constant uptime thing since crushers are usually in waves rather than spread out

[fierce marten]

You don't even need it, you can kill crushers in seconds still

Or at least faster than a krak nade

[ionic tusk]

but if it's a single crusher, the vet can do the same exact meleeing

[fierce marten]

It's rarely a single crusher

[ionic tusk]

then kraks can kill multiple at once and the timing on how it takes to explode is irrelevant because the zealot would take even longer

[fierce marten]

Zealots can kill a single crusher faster than a krak just constantly with no need to wait for nades to come back

[ionic tusk]

so can a vet?

[haughty ember]

Could have it as a high mag capacity good ammo efficiency slow draw weapon

So you can't whip it out as a response option but it offers a lot of firepower

[ionic tusk]

dueling sword and knives aren't exclusive to zealot

the kraks deal with crusher balls faster and the vet deals with single crushers the same speed

[heavy geyser]

I kill crushers by the bushel

the thunder hammer can kill them industrially

[ionic tusk]

I have not had that experience
it's very safe at killing them because you do the setup out of contact
but the setup takes far far longer than a dueling sword stabbing it once or twice

and if you whiff (because someone else killed it faster) the setup is wasted

that or you can fast whack them repeatedly which is even safer and doesn't have as much risk of whiffing but is glacial

[drowsy vine]

yeah but the dueling sword is the dueling sword lol

[ionic tusk]

this is true

however plasma gun dueling sword shout vet is probably like 35% of all pubs I encounter in quickplay so it gets more attention for me

[heavy geyser]

I do feel like the dueling sword is an outlier. It feels like its a short-range gun with infinite ammo.

[haughty ember]

ok is auric just not a guaranteed pass with randoms?

I swear to god I wipe like 4/5 times

[drowsy vine]

Never was

[haughty ember]

maybe my expectations are too high

wait is auric actually a diff increase now?

not just hi intensity?

[frank igloo]

yes

[haughty ember]

that....would explain some things

[frank igloo]

well health values are still the same as damnation

but theyre a bespoke difficulty selector

instead of being heresy + damnation with always high intensity

its now basically only damnation with always high intensity

[drowsy vine]

And it can have additional high intensity on top

Making it kinda like a diff 6

[heavy geyser]

double-high intensity shock trooper gauntlet

[haughty ember]

ah ic

that would explain why this feels harder than my hazy recollection

on the mk 19 ogryn shovel, opinions on swapping one of skullcrusher/thunderous for Thrust?

[heavy geyser]

I think they have genuinely been tinkering with intensity, spawn rates, ranged unit accuracy and behaviors.

[haughty ember]

I like the idea of oneshotting crushers but I do already have the +25% damage node so it may not be necessary?

also if you need to pick one, skullcrusher or thunderous?

[heavy geyser]

skullcrusher is an all-timer

[spiral badger]

skullcrusher

[haughty ember]

maybe I'm doing something wrong but I don't get how this is supposed to oneshot

unless I'm assuming the presence of a lot of melee buffs that don't exist in the meatgrinder

[heavy geyser]

the Ogrynomicon might not have updated the line about one-shotting crushers since the update giving them a lot more health.

[haughty ember]

ah

yeah I think I'll just go back to the default which also seems good

[heavy geyser]

The Borovian pickaxe used to one-shot them but I don't think it does anymore either.

skullcrusher on the shoves is good for using the light horizontals to stagger a crowd and apply it to all of them

I'm not sure if the Ogryn shovel works the same way but on the Veteran shovel I've noticed the special shovel attack registers two hits, with the second one benefitting from the stagger of the first hit for applying stagger damage bonuses.

[haughty ember]

it doesn't appear to

yeah I can just run skullcrusher/thunderous and while it might not oneshot from full all the damage amps will probably get me there

[heavy geyser]

Holding a heavy doesn't do this?

[haughty ember]

and that lets me thin out the horde before going for the high commitment folded attack which is probably a good idea

[marsh gyro]

Thunderous/Skullcrusher is a great team play

Brittleness never goes out of style

[heavy geyser]

Ogryn applying thunderous to a boss is what lets me one-shot them.

I can only hit like 70-80%ish on my own, but the brittleness being applied makes the play possible

[heavy geyser]

Ahh, I guess it doesn't.

[marsh gyro]

Yeah the vet shovel is split into two hits, the first counts as sticky stagger category like a chain weapon so it staggers super easy non-monstrosities

[heavy geyser]

That makes a lot of sense

And then the Ogryn's is just a big guillotine blade coming down.

[haughty ember]

ok the alternative is I just keep running the branx which oneshots maulers and threeshots crushers

[heavy geyser]

Related: the vet shovel skin I am using is in the cash shop right now. It doesn't fold the blade and makes the folded spike attack become a very funny flat-facet bonk attack instead.

I recommend it if (royal you) you are a veteran shovel fan.

[marsh gyro]

Foldable ogryn shovel vs the pickaxe is mostly about if you like the attack patterns on the lights for the shovel for hordes, the heavies are versatile single target but the pickaxe does like double the heavy damage

Non-foldable ogryn shovel has the super uppercut which rules

[haughty ember]

whats the point of the pull on the other picks?

[heavy geyser]

It staggers and sets up the overhead heavy

[marsh gyro]

Try it on a bulwark

[heavy geyser]

alt > heavy overhead is a really reliable way to clean up a crusher/mauler pack

Re: the vet shovel: there's a trick to setting it up. You have to apply the skin tot he non-folding mark then swap it to a folding mark. It doesn't show up for the folders but it doesn't lock you out of swapping marks, so it just rotates to the side and bonks.

[haughty ember]

It works on crushers?!

[heavy geyser]

The Borovian rules.

[haughty ember]

Ok fine I'll try it out tomorrow

[heavy geyser]

the alt is like that big cane they use to pull a bad act off stage

and then you hold heavy and it sets up the vertical

and that with thrust plus the ogryn thrust 2 talent

You turn heads into craters

[haughty ember]

Ok in fairness the branx already does rhat

[heavy geyser]

Borovian has a faster horde clear combo

[haughty ember]

I onetapped a mauler off the rip and thats kinda why I don't wanna move off of it even if the other two are probably better

[heavy geyser]

Its a bit of routing to access its overhead routes but it is a 'does it all" style mark.

[marsh gyro]

What I like about branx with melee tree impact stacks is you can bust bulwark shields in one charged heavy

[haughty ember]

Routing isn't super hard

I usually mentally keep the horde clear combo and the single target combo

And that gets me by

[heavy geyser]

I think all the pickaxes have a special uppercut normal you get out of slides

[haughty ember]

Yup

Not sure what exactly its good for but it does look cool

[heavy geyser]

iirc it can stagger well and let you approach into some kind of followup.

i'm checking now

Okay yeah, without any damage bonuses active in the meat grinder the borovian alt > heavy charge takes 90% health off a Mauler, and it two-shots Crushers.

Slide uppercut routes into a lot of consecutive overheads, it can hit more uppercut lights or route into the heavy overhead

[ionic tusk]

I would suggest not using quickplay and selecting missions to start
both to avoid queueing into half wiped missions and to avoid hi hi shock jumpscare

[fierce marten]

I'm sort of betting it's just a joke but imagine Mister E lowkey hinted at the new class being ratling (skaven rat + zergling). He is a playtester under NDA for Fatshark

It would be the biggest surprise if they actually did ratlings knowing people would least expect it due to their previous statement

Using the rogue trader/darktide arbites synced launch as an additional layer to the ruse

[cyan depot]

Whoa the new class is a fucking Tyranid?

[tough compass]

A Tyranid that uses psychic cloaking to look like a human. Only Sefani can see through it, but she finds it funny so doesn't tell anyone else

[ionic tusk]

in a game yesterday two psyker's bonding dialogue talked about training a beast of nurgle and I joked that clearly playable beast of nurgle has been what fatshark has been hinting at for the next playable class

[tough compass]

Why be a class with a dog, when you can be a really big dog

[fierce marten]

New Tyranid in SM2 dropping the same time as new tyranid in Darktide (it's a genestealer)

[fierce marten]

Play as a cultist with a pet beast of nurgle

But reverse arbites situation you're going to die in like a shot but your pet will play the game while you're dead

[thick rivet]

God I hope the psyker armored greatcoat comes back soon in rotation

I need it for my fgs build

[flint moss]

ok domesticating genestealer cults is exactly the kind of weird shit inquisitors get up to

[haughty ember]

That was in one of the books

[fierce marten]

"Ill use these genestealers known to take down planets via espionage but I wont make the same mistake of hubris they did"

But also tbf there are radical inquisitors that have done things like have daemonhosts in private quarters of their ship.

[opaque crown]

Ordo Xenos inquisitors making deals with an entity literally named The Deceiver thinking they'll outscheme and trick them in the end.

Totally believable that one might trick themselves into thinking they can control and utilize a genestealer cult for their own benefit

[fierce marten]

My suspiciously suddenly purple & bald shipmmate saying I could easily outsmart genestealer cults if they were on our side

[sonic elbow]

my gift of prophecy is telling me the new class will have a brace of pistols

I wonder if I'm still blacklisted from testing because I'm still butthurt about that

[fierce marten]

I think there's like a secret playtest tier cause they sign NDAs and see things really far in advance and kept it under wraps well afaik

[flint moss]

remember, gsc are mostly incorrect about what nids are like

if they learn the truth they may become disloyal to the great devourer

[sonic elbow]

I was in the NDA group for vermintide

then someone from the group leaked to 4chan and everyone got blacklisted just to be safe

[flint moss]

https://tenor.com/view/awesomesauce-swaghetti-yolonese-yisha-bnuuy-bunny-review-gif-9714124053123751214

[fierce marten]

Well sometimes, some just go all in. Even sometimes this is used against the imperium if a gene stealer cult tries to fight the incoming nids and gets more reinforcement so more biomass to the planet and depending on the GSC the hive mind can like force its will upon some cults so they change sides out of nowhere

GSC seem to work by, whatever story the writer wants to tell logic

[flint moss]

as with all warhammer, the rules depend on the author and everything is simultaneously canon and japes

land raider, raider of land

[fierce marten]

The eternal debate if lasguns have recoil, impact, or makes sound

Based on the books, its both ig

[marsh gyro]

Light is a particle and a wave

[opaque crown]

whats the breakdown on psyker staffs again?

I'm currently operating under the impression that lightning staff is anti armor

blas staff is like grnades, flame staff kills everything given time, and voidblast staff is a generalist

[marsh gyro]

They're all pretty good at what they do on the tin, lightning staff is pretty mid damage but good vs everything, Voidblast is great AOE but slow single target, Voidstrike is pretty good anti everything but slow, flame staff rips everything but carapace and brain burst handles that

[opaque crown]

does lightning no longer get any bonuses for targeting armor?

[marsh gyro]

If you need to burst someone down and can aim good the electrosurge staff with Surge blessing does ridiculous single target; the secondary is for casting magic missile into the darkness

[marsh gyro]

It busts Flak super good and Carapace better than the other options, yeah

[ionic tusk]

voidblast staff also kinda counts as anti armor due to sheer ogyrn bullying potential
you can basically stunlock an ogyrn/rager/mauler ball out of mattering if they don't spread out

[opaque crown]

wait clarification, voidblast, ground explostion; voidstrike energy balls

i mispoke in my oriignal message

[ionic tusk]

inferno staff is mostly the 'I am the hordeclear :D' staff but can also be prime for getting 5 perilous combustion procs at the same time and wiping a room of elites

[ionic tusk]

the lmb also pretty consistently staggers ragers and maulers to be killed by someone else

[heavy geyser]

Lightning staff is the pop-off big crit damage leftclick staff

run it with the blessing that gives higher crit rate with peril and the one that fires two shots on crit

And treat it like a leftclick rifle

Lightning is unique for being the only one with a crit damage (?) stat in its lineup

[waxen patio]

Inferno is so dumbly good at crowd management effortlessly. Voidblast is also really good because the RMB staggers everything that isn't a monstrosity, crowds of crushers just get bowled over

Both inferno and voidblast are also excellent for applying brittleness stacks

[fierce marten]

Voidstrike you uh cry

[flint moss]

i play scrier so lightning would probably be the staff for me

[cyan depot]

I think all of them can crit

[waxen patio]

You just gotta pick whatever supplements your kit's weaknesses. If your scrier's kit is big single-target then it's a good idea to pick a staff that covers crowd control

[fierce marten]

Lightning just has crit as a stat

So higher crit chance and damage

[heavy geyser]

they all can crit but the lightning one does more crit damage

only this one has this

with double crit shots and juiced up crit rate its a lot of damage

[waxen patio]

If you REALLY like the staff left click projectile spam routine, get yourself an electrostaff.

The alt is good too of course. Bullies mutants.

[cyan depot]

Ah ok yeah I see

[flint moss]

crit bonus increases both chance and damage

[fierce marten]

The old finesse keywording

Finesse applies to both weak spot and crits

[ionic tusk]

oh this is suprisingly more complicated than I thought

first grey number is the benefit at 60%, second grey number is the benefit at 80%

+21% crit chance is pretty significant regardless though!

what exactly crit bonus does seems to vary per weapon, here are some other examples (revolver, shield + shotpistol, tac axe- marks can also be different potentially?)

[heavy geyser]

A couple stats are like this. Stopping power sometimes is just stagger, but sometimes it also has damage numbers in it.

[flint moss]

and crowd control can affect attack speed

[ionic tusk]

I also noticed a few stopping powers that didn't include stagger at all when I was going through stuff
like shredder autopistol which has both collateral and stopping power, and the stagger is on the collateral, not the stopping power

[fierce marten]

Yea it's annoying, crowd control and collateral are quite inconsistent

[haughty ember]

Is there a guide as good as the ogrynomicon for the other classes?

also wow auric can go sideways fast

[heavy geyser]

I think Psykers kind of have one, but nothing as cleanly presented as the Ogryn one.

Vet and Zealot kind of always had The One Build or at least one backbone to their best builds.

Until very recently..

[haughty ember]

also how does havoc work?

and do I actually need a group for it?

[cyan depot]

ye

I'd be down for some havocs tho

[spiral badger]

basically

to get havocs you must complete a malestrom

then you need a group, though you cna find one through the party finder

and havoc is basically difficulty + additional penalties

0-10 havoc is heresy+, 10-20 havoc is damnation+, 20-30 havoc is auric+, 30+ havoc is Eat Shit and Die

[haughty ember]

don't I need to host or something?

[spiral badger]

nah y ou can use the party finder

and find a group at roughly your level

or you can host the party on the party finder and let people find you

[haughty ember]

also jesus everything goes wrong fast on auric

one wrong step and just splat

[spiral badger]

yep

there are recovery methods but they get more and more specific and skill-requiring

and your build matters a lot more in terms of having good damage and good survivability

[heavy geyser]

The momentum on aurics and havocs is like having a tidal wave of shit chasing you at all times

and if you ever go down then three gunners and two snipers are gonna put red lines over you and a bomber is gonna turn the ground around you into fire and a flamer is going to also pour fire around you.

Sometimes it is genuinely safer to just pick someone up at the next recovery point than to try to rescue them if the tidal wave catches up with you.

Because there's just so much happening that you sometimes can't even attempt the recovery

Dogs and Trappers will also quickly make a recovery effort more difficult, and all of this can happen on a single Trapper success and turn an otherwise stable lifebar into a death.

Flamers love to follow the Trappers.

[fierce marten]

Or bombers

Unless you're a arbites you ain't reviving someone in the fire

[haughty ember]

I am looking for babby's first havoc

if anyone wants to do things

definitely still getting used to the momentum thing on aurics

I feel like I can keep pushing safely but it's always on a razor's edge

also I want loot which makes things harder

I also need to make more aggressive use of frag bombs

can't save them for a safe rez, need to use them proactively to defuse hazardous situations

[flint moss]

the main reward for havoc is penence cosmetics

[haughty ember]

ok lowkey doing QP I max out at heresy for consistent clears

at damnation+ teams just wipe too fast

[fierce marten]

It can be if everyone is unprepared

Which if youre playing with randos happens

A useful skill for auric is clutching when everyone is dead

30+ havoc things go from good to wipe even faster

Aurics let you practice those

[ionic tusk]

also a ludicrous amount of crafting resources but only once a week on a delay

[ionic tusk]

I would not recommend mid to high level havoc until someone is comfortable in aurics btw
you do need to do a mael to unlock them, and if you do a normal mael instead of an auric mael, it puts you at havoc 1

[fierce marten]

Havoc gets harder than auric at around 20+

[ionic tusk]

are you doing better in non quickplay?

[spiral badger]

like I said

0-10 havoc is heresy+, 10-20 havoc is damnation+, 20-30 havoc is auric+, 30+ havoc is Eat Shit and Die

[ionic tusk]

yeag just wanting to emphasize even in a semi premade it will not go well

I've uh, had a ton of people try to do havoc 30's as their first havoc so I might be overzealous about that point heheheho

[haughty ember]

I don't do a lot of non uqickplay

[ionic tusk]

I think quickplay is considerably harder on average
because the teams with open slots are usually the teams where people weren't doing well and ragequit, games where the bots ate a ton of resources at the start of the match and set things back a bit, and hi hi shock jumpscare

[fierce marten]

Also everyone having complimentary loadouts is huge for nonQP

Havoc doesnt have QP for that reason, party finder means you all can prep beforehand to avoid overlaps

[ionic tusk]

I wish people did that more
I've had a ton of applicants showcase one build and then bait and switch to another one on a different class
then get mad when you tell them you picked them because they were doing X job on the team you needed

[fierce marten]

Damn that sucks

I think people usually just leave the party for me

Usually psykers since 2 flame staff psykers is redundant

[ionic tusk]

like getting a support character to make a psyker less squishy only for them to transform into an equally (or more) squishy psyker competing for the same kills

yes exactly that

running bubble/inferno and being worried that the team is too squishy so you get a taunt ogyrn or chorus zealot
but then they become a scream inferno psyker

[fierce marten]

Zealot I often run into another flamer zealot but its an easy fix changing to bolters for ranged boss damage

[ionic tusk]

or vice versa

[fierce marten]

2 Psykers though it just doesnt work as well, there havoc viable builds for duplicates of every other class

[ionic tusk]

I think 2 psykers can work
but one needs to be voidblast and the other inferno
and they both need bubble

then you have a bubble uptime of like 100% and can move it forward no problem

[fierce marten]

Except like the first few days plasma gunners released

They popped bubbles stupid fast before the nerf you barely have it up for 5 seconds

[spiral badger]

that's a different problem lol

also there are other viable psyker builds but they require you to be absolutely cracked

[ionic tusk]

I have not had that experience but that was probably because a normal gunner was stealing all the damage opportunities

[fierce marten]

The gaze one?

[spiral badger]

like, the problem is that all the other havoc viable damage psyker setups involve scriers or shout

meaning you have to be very good at not just dying

[ionic tusk]

and your team also has to be good at dealing with gunners

[spiral badger]

i have experienced them working on havoc 40

but that motherfucker was in the matrix

they could not hit him

[ionic tusk]

yeag every class has the level 2000 player who could run a fork and still be fine while getting max kills

[fierce marten]

Yea gaze you be cracked, shout you need to be cracked and team babysit them. Shout psyker spreads soulflame like crazy

It can do stupid damage but is the glassiest cannon on psyker

[haughty ember]

do people not just run generalist?

[fierce marten]

Most do

Its usually the same one bubble psyker with flame staff still

[ionic tusk]

generalist is bubble

[spiral badger]

at high havoc you need a baseline generalist build then Something More

[ionic tusk]

if you don't have bubble you're missing the support part of being general

[spiral badger]

like, you cannot be Lacking

[fierce marten]

Even after the class changes support talents is like mandatory for most of your team

A shame cause i enjot shroudfield but im not taking that on havoc

Even after nerf chorus is good in havoc

[spiral badger]

shroudfield zealot can be incredible on havoc

[haughty ember]

do I want to start running loyal protector?

I've been running indomitable which is really useful with the stagger but maybe I need to do more CC?

[spiral badger]

specifically one-shot shroudfield zealot to Remove Bosses

[fierce marten]

Like gaze psyker you kind of need to be cracked which I am not

[spiral badger]

because they can just Delete Captains

[ionic tusk]

if you can bonk bosses it can work I think
that's big enough a role for speccing into it to matter
and you can't quite get that while still playing support
(except maybe krak vet)

[spiral badger]

and other bosses

[haughty ember]

I guess the other perspective is that really waht I need to do is get good enough at melee that I can clutch with 3 down but that's really hard

[fierce marten]

Oh yea I guess for boss killing

Thammer builds stay winning

[spiral badger]

clutching with 3 down is less about melee per se and more about learning how to move and evade your way without getting rocked to the pickup point

and then how to make space to acchieve a successful pickup

one thing people miss: You need to kill the following to have a chance:

1. any trappers
2. any dogs
3. any mutants
4. any bombers

[haughty ember]

Yup

[spiral badger]

the rest you might need to kill

but if any of those buggers are on you you should fight your way clear and blast them first

even if that means someone dies

[fierce marten]

Also depends on the class you're playing, some classes clutch easier than others.

[ionic tusk]

outside of havoc ime dying is hugely overrated
the tension leniency is pretty significant

so the huge barrier is usually the spawns already on the map

[fierce marten]

Depends on teammates

Its kind of a gamble on QP aurics if your team can manage with 2 down

[spiral badger]

on normal aurics if I'm alone I can just go doomguy

usually

[ionic tusk]

it's less of a factor now with the difficulty gating
but I had a ton of games before that where we were doing better when a player was constantly dying and worse when they were alive

because the amount of spawns they removed by taking damage and dying was more than they contributed

[spiral badger]

more valuable as a difficulty reduction than alive...

[ionic tusk]

yes
bots are like this still

I do duos and turbo farm them lel

if you can keep the bots constantly going down but 1 alive to save at any given time it's usually chill

[fierce marten]

Yea it's less of a factor but even aurics vary quite a bit you have people like just manage to beat damnation and people tired of havoc grind

[spiral badger]

but yeah anyway for clutching and pickups the more important practice is how to lead a bunch of shit around in a wide circle so you can buy some room to do it

and learning when to use your abilities/blitzes to buy space to complete actions

[haughty ember]

the main issue is if I don't have a nade

if I have a frag bomb getting space is easy

[fierce marten]

Zealot's solution for clutching is to outrun the horde

[ionic tusk]

zealot has many solutions

[spiral badger]

ogyrn 2/3 actives will buy you space to work too

taunt and charge will both stagger the zone

and let you do a pickup

[ionic tusk]

stun nade, chorus, stealth, all can be used to solo revive

[spiral badger]

you can also run rumbler and just dump a couple of bombs at your feet to help

[fierce marten]

Yea, I'd say zealot is 2nd best for clutching now. Arbites has so many ways to clear space back to back

[spiral badger]

and honestly, as ogryn you can just dodge and push if it's just a bunch of chaff

and it'll knock enough over

[ionic tusk]

idk I think all the meta builds are great at it
vet can throw a nade then shout for 2 staggers (shout then nade)
psyker can bubble then just kinetic deflection yolo

[fierce marten]

Also triple ally revive speed on curios is great

[spiral badger]

because of rotten armor krak vet is more ccommon in high havoc now

[fierce marten]

I think they all can but some do it easier than others

[spiral badger]

but krak still does *some stagger

[ionic tusk]

krak will probably just kill the stuff

[fierce marten]

Zealot has several safety nets so mistakes aren't as devastating compared to say psyker where a mistake will down you

[haughty ember]

ok I like loyal protector

[heavy geyser]

If you run a bunch of Maelstroms you can acclimate to what Havoc will become, and you can quickplay into that.

[opaque crown]

Man, noting I wasn't running big melee build, I used the folding shovel special, with thrust, fully charged, into a crusher 3 times in a row and it just did not care

[haughty ember]

ok yeah no loyal protector makes this much more doable

I also did not realize how much boss damage the branx does jfc

[heavy geyser]

I learned today that psyker's magic sword force push does like 1 damage, meaning it can proc empowered psyonics auto brain burst

instant brain pop

[frank igloo]

Yep

[haughty ember]

ok after a bit of thought I'm pretty comfortable in saying that resource payouts per unit time on auric are probably lower than heresy

just because I clear so many fewer missions

[fierce marten]

I find auric easier than heresy cause the teammates in heresy tend to be bad

Maelstroms are the most time efficient cause they give a lot more resource rewards

I assume damnation maelstrom is still a thing

Auric maelstrom isn't bad once you get used to aurics

[ionic tusk]

auric maels are way more intense than normal auric

probably the timer based horde thing they added recently to make it more like havoc?

[fierce marten]

Is that maelstrom exclusive? I thought that was just all of auric and higher

[ionic tusk]

also sometimes the specialist spawner goes absolutely nuts

[ionic tusk]

p sure it said just maels

plus the silly modifiers can be quite bad
though nowhere near havoc level because they're focused on being silly rather than presenting a challenge

[ionic tusk]

do you need the resources badly?

[fierce marten]

It does punish you hard if youre not on point with the game mechanics, especially hi shock is what gets most people

[cyan depot]

Yeah Auric Maelstroms occasionally just push the fuck it end run button

I am still moderately salty to losing a run to 9 fucking poxbursters running out of a closet in a small room

[ionic tusk]

it doesn't usually end the run for me but I end up spending like 5 minutes straight murdering specialists before someone decides to go fuck it and push forward with like 4 specialists on us

[ionic tusk]

oh yeah
I am starting to learn every door

[fierce marten]

Yea specialists ones like hard skill check your teammates cause standing still and bunkerung down to deal with specialists first isn't usually the play

You want to be able to push forward and deal with specialists

[ionic tusk]

I think the worst one is the one on excise vault after the mid event and elevator which is attractively placed next to a random charge medstation
and something about being near a medstation makes players refuse to back away from the door

[fierce marten]

If you stop and wait for specialists to come to you by the time you deal with one wave another spawns and you make no progress

[ionic tusk]

eh I disagree

[haughty ember]

I've got sets of gear but I need stuff to upgrade my godrolls

[ionic tusk]

understandable

[fierce marten]

If youre only in it for resources you still get ones you pick up in missions on failure, probably malice and having a build that speedruns through areas and pick up everything is the "optimal" way

[haughty ember]

I might just be salty because I had an auric run that went great right up until the end "run to the valkrie" where we all wiped in like 30s

[fierce marten]

Yea thats darktide at times

[haughty ember]

and the resource penalty is so painful that I may as well have done nothing because I spent 15 minutes for 200 plasteel

also because with aurics it never feels like I'm playing with a full deck

even in games with lobbied starts people just alt-F4 the second they get downed so at best you'll have two players from start to finish and then a rolling sequence of bots

like aurics are fun, the difficulty is enjoyable

but the fact that it's demonstrably worse for my metaprog and has worse teammate behavior is annoying

[fierce marten]

Interesting, what times and region do you play cause usually someone QP joins in to replace the early quitters for me

[haughty ember]

yeah but then they alt-F4 when they get downed

usually after work hours, NA

[fierce marten]

Exception is like if I play 3am on a Tuesday

[haughty ember]

but last night I had two back to back auric runs that went fine no issues

[fierce marten]

No clue then, I don't think I've really had an auric where it's mostly bots except for odd hours. Except that one time they changed map rotations to something stupid low like 15-30 minutes or something

[haughty ember]

sorry it's not that it's mostly bots

it's that people join, get downed, DC, join, get downed, DC, etc

I guess some of that is on me for doing QP but still

[fierce marten]

I've only really done QP, the way I spin it is I wouldn't want a rage quitter to stay on my team, they're hoping a skilled team will carry them instead of sticking around to learn from mistakes and how to recover from bad situations in darktide

[haughty ember]

hrm

did an auric maelstrom, only got 500 plasteel because we were too busy fighting for our lives

[heavy geyser]

Mortis trials are a good way to get plasteel and diamantine

You get a guaranteed room full of them at the end.

[cyan depot]

Non-maelstrom aurics are my usual grind

[haughty ember]

oh I haven't actually looked at the mortis trials

what are those?

[fierce marten]

You do have to win them

Damnation trials is super easy

Like base damnation but you get superpowers.

Auric trials are actually quite hard in comparison, it's auric maelstrom with hi shock intensity with a higher cap so seeing literally 18 burster in 20 seconds isn't uncommon

And the RNG in perks can screw you over cause it's balanced around your team getting good build synergy to make them strong enough to handle havoc 40 level of hordes but luckily it's mostly walkers

You do need to account for wave 6 or 11 sometimes dropping like 8 bosses in a wave before your build takes off, the wave difficulty is wildly swing and random.

But if you get perfect rolls you can solo all of it especially with a grenade build

It's quite swingy and sucks to not get anything because wave 10 a second wave of 8 trappers spawned while someone was down at the same time as 8 bomber wave and it spirals as fast as havoc if you're not lucky or doing a mortal trial specific build

I still like it, it has very high highs but low lows

[opaque crown]

I find mortis trials are the most farmable

[fierce marten]

Ogyrn and Vets have it very good on trials

The grenade perks are wild

Examples are replenish grenade every 20s, 90% chance to spawn a duplicate grenade upon exploding, grenades create a default psyker bubble, 10% to replinish 3 grenades when killing an enemy with a grenade (done per kill so normal horde is almost guranteed full nades, and 75% brittleness on explosion

Oh also grenades heal 30% HP to you and allies caught in it, combined with the archetype perk that clears up to 3 wounds of corruption for coherency

[opaque crown]

Box of nades drops one of every kind of nade

Can also combo up with a duplicate grenade situation

[fierce marten]

Yea the 50% chance to spawn a grenade upon exploding one

I see a good amount of frag bombs nuking the map with the brittleness stuff

Double nades and brittleness on frag bombs just kill everything including armor with the 2nd one

Psyker has fun ones

Replenish assail charge on kill so you can literally forever spam it

Smite does full damage without needing to charge it up at all

Gaze gives 60% damage resist

[opaque crown]

Multi head pop is fun but sometimes hard to use with the intensity of things

[fierce marten]

Yea its kind of get it or brain burst is useless

But when you do get it brainburst related penaces get so much easier

[sacred pagoda]

Man I love the flash on the Arbitrator shield+maul.

That few seconds of breathing room it gives you against hordes has saved my ass a lot.

[fierce marten]

It plays well with bottom right keystone for Dogg less

Especially for the node where using ability resets stacks but grants up to 25% strength and with break the line you get like 14 seconds cooldown

[sacred pagoda]

I... don't actually remember what talents I have set.

I know I use Break The Line.

I like the charge way more than either of the other two specials.

[fierce marten]

It's very spammable

With triple ability curios the cooldown is a few second longer than the buff it gives you for using ut

[sacred pagoda]

I've only got one ability cooldown curio, everything else is for increasing Toughness and health, along with stamina regeneration.

[fierce marten]

The triple is pretty nice since they changed CDR talents

[sacred pagoda]

This is how I've got my talents set up.

[fierce marten]

Ah I found the math's, 11.4s cooldown with just triple CDR on curios.

[sacred pagoda]

That's prety quick.

[fierce marten]

Dog and arbites grenade interesting

[sacred pagoda]

I don't like either of the other grenade options and I like having my dog with me.

[fierce marten]

A funny thing is if you take bottom left and break the line it's even faster

Well dog explosion isn't a nade

[sacred pagoda]

It's a mine and an explostion at my dog's location. I like the standard grenade because I can pull it out and throw it at enemies and then it explodes.

[fierce marten]

Ah I just ping a nearby elite the trigger it once it lands

[sacred pagoda]

It feels a little clumsy to me. It's just a preference thing, I think.

[fierce marten]

I like it on dog less arbites when it comes to fun grenade builds

It's extreme levels of cc and none of your team will be hurt cause enemies will just be stagger locked

[sacred pagoda]

I like having the dog because he keeps the heretic dogs off me.

And also I can point at a trapper and have him rip it to shreds, like it deserves.

[fierce marten]

I do prefer dog arbites, the utility of basically delayed but instant ping at a specialist will result in their death

Trappers and bombers love to run around corners after firing and now I don't have to chase them

Snipers too is nice

[sacred pagoda]

Yeah. That alone is why I never go dogless.

[heavy geyser]

taking an ability cooldown perk on all three curios is a huge value add for every build

[ionic tusk]

I'd agree
howl and arbites nade feel like nearly the same ability to me
howl is free and infinitely spamable every 50s but arbites nade does not get fucked over by dog pathing

🤔 tho maybe the nade messes up ogyrns more, I didn't pay close enough attention to the howl's effect on them

my personal preference is probably going to be mine on any build not explicitly going for something though, just to throw it down when wipes are happening and if I don't use it in an entire mission I'll still feel fine about it heheho

[heavy geyser]

the dog burst takes a different mindset. you can sicc the dog on targets but you can also just be mindful of what the dog's AI is doing, control its preferences with talents, keep an eye on where it currently is and reaction pop burst if its in a crowd, since its free to just do.

Its a whole different style from "throw impact grenade at thing"

dog bursts I think play well with shock mauls that do more damage on electrified targets

but you gotta work around the dog a little

There's so many auto-regenning grenade options now that I started taking shock mines on my dog build just because no one else is taking the grenade pickups, I'll keep my dog and take em myself.

[fierce marten]

Yea playing zealot is a gamble on whether you're playing with another no regen grenade user

Similar with arbites it's fine if no one else spam away

But 3 in pubs is pain

[heavy geyser]

i see more knife zealots than otherwise

knife > fire > stun is what i see in frequency

[ionic tusk]

I feel nade pickup spawns can be next to nonexistent through rng alone anyways
so if I bring a nade it's never with the expectation I'll get a refill

[fierce marten]

It's moreso Ogyrns

Ogyrns, dogged arbites using nades, zealots running stun/fire all use grenade pickups

Using grenades on a zealot is a gamble on other teammates on QP whereas knife and dog explosion is free

[haughty ember]

ok so free frag bombs is silly

[haughty ember]

ok these are fun

[opaque crown]

What's yalls take, who's tougher, arbites or ogryn? I'm leaning arbites, though shieldgryn fully into center tree might be tougher?

[tough compass]

Shieldgryn: it can take unlimited damage during a shield plant

[haughty ember]

goddamn

I clutched 3 times on a damnation mortis when everything was going wrong and when I'm levelling a power maul which is frankly a weapon I don't really like

and then the last wave I get daemonhost + bombers + a fucking million mutants

did not clutch up then

still a ton of fun

[fierce marten]

Auric trials get more intense

Ogyrns have it very good with grenade perks

[marsh gyro]

Power maul post rework really shines with bottom left tree cleave bonuses

[fierce marten]

Lukewarm take but Rumblr is good for trials, on auric mortis trials you need to deal with bosses fast and you can't always rely on RNG to give you perks that could help you kill bosses.

[sacred pagoda]

I'm having trouble getting through Damnation.

Lots of teams that can't stick together for some reason.

[opaque crown]

Teams in general can't stick together i find. Sometimes playing do aggressively that they don't pay attention to what they are running into and die

So* aggressively

And I get it, you should be pushing forward when possible, but just as importantly, you should be moving as a team, not leaving people behind to die

[sacred pagoda]

Almost had that one but then an explosive barrel threw everyone off a fucking ledge.

I only have the energy for two or three matches a night and both of them were failures for stupid reasons.

Kind of ruined my entire mood.

[flint moss]

yeah The Public is not a useful ally

[opaque crown]

Not a lot really kills my mood in the game these days, mostly only if the team completely ignores dog pounces, and if the team plays like they can solo the game and definitely can't

[sacred pagoda]

Is there some kind of fucking thing with the mutants going on? There were eight of them in one group in that mission.

[drowsy tusk]

Yea they show up more with the event

In the event missions

[fierce marten]

Hasn't that event been in effect for a while

[sacred pagoda]

I haven't been playing latey, just got back into it two nights ago.

[sacred pagoda]

I forget, is it more beneficial to have more Wounds or more raw health?

[spiral badger]

depends

are you regularly going down?

[sacred pagoda]

Not that often. Arbitrator lets you stay on your feet pretty well. But only having two Wounds has screwed me a few times.

[spiral badger]

the general answer is more toughness is almost always the best choice

rather than health or wounds

but 1 extra wound is good insurance

and on vet and psyker more health can also pad some situations

[fierce marten]

1 HP is good on arbites with the 50 max HP talent cause it hits a one shot breakpoint

[spiral badger]

more toughness is The Best but you have to be able to take advantage of it

[fierce marten]

So you can tank another one shot

[opaque crown]

I usually like to play at 3 wounds. I know it's not top end optimal, but it gives me a little more security for mistakes

[sacred pagoda]

The Curios I'm weighing between are +1 Wound or +20% health.

My other two curios are +16% and +17% Toughness.

[fierce marten]

I think on arbites I run 2 toughness and a health

Arbite's has stupid easy toughness regen

[haughty ember]

I have usually found toughness to offer the most value since it's what takes damage first and also you can very easily regenerate it

health you only regen from medpacks and med stations and wounds are only useful if you're being downed multiple times without wiping

[fierce marten]

Arbite's is an exception if you take a certain talent that limits your damage cap to 50

It reaches a breakpoint where you can take another one one shot without dying

[heavy geyser]

If you're learning the game health and wounds will let you make more mistakes, and as you improve you can scale them back to your comfort.

a +3 stamina curio has good value too

[fierce marten]

Arbite's has quite fast stamina regen

It's the only class I don't use stamina on

It's the same as psyker but base 3 stamina

So both the delay is halved and it regens 1 stamina per second

[ionic tusk]

and your teammates have to pick you up each time- I think this is the most significant reason why wounds kind of suck
going down is underrated danger wise, dying is overrated danger wise

additionally, ime from lots and lots of quickplays
death by attrition is usually caused by mismanagement of med stations rather than raw number of wounds
ie skipping them when there's excess charges and then running out of a random med station later
or them not being found

[sacred pagoda]

I ended up just stacking more toughness.

[ionic tusk]

had the rare 1 in 400 games of a mutant throwing me over a ledge into the next area ahead of my team lmao
it is kind of funny that this happens to me via dog displacement more often than mutants so I forgot they could even do it

[flint moss]

how tf do dogs pull that

i fully believe the meth hounds could do it back in the day but

[ionic tusk]

it's not a pull, it's like
they jump at me, I dodge, but we collide during the dodge so I get pushed a bit

and sometimes I'm dodging parallel to a dropdown and get pushed off course down it

I get displaced by dogs a lot tho since I tend to just dodge into them unless I could see them coming at me before the pounce
it just usually doesn't matter much

🤔 I think a similar thing happens when multiple players are in each other then one gets pounced, everyone gets pushed a bit since they have collision with the dog but it already has a person chosen to get pounced

[flint moss]

i meant "pull that off"

[ionic tusk]

ah

[flint moss]

the meth hounds could pull you but no more

[flint moss]

<@&1042950387478560878> anyone have a havoc assignment i could help with? trying to get the armor

[marsh gyro]

I've got to climb back up the Havoc ladder from 20 after the reset and can do some Havocs tomorrow morning <t:1762617600:F>

[ionic tusk]

what's the team comp looking like? I might be able to contribute a bubble/inferno psyker or cookie cutter shredder vet depending
or chorus zealot but that's probably going to be the least effective one

[sacred pagoda]

I’m like one mission away from being through Damnation and I think the Dark Gods have conspired to send me these teams.

[ionic tusk]

would you like help?

[sacred pagoda]

I would, but it’ll have to wait a while. Got some errands to run.

[ionic tusk]

understandable

[flint moss]

im going to play gungryn

or arbites

[ionic tusk]

do ya'll want scoreboards of the havocs

[marsh gyro]

I'm all right without 'em, we won and that's the score that counts

[ionic tusk]

I do also want to point out we were on the level where the ammo penalty increased

🤔 although it seems like they made it much less drastic, iirc top end used to be -85%

[marsh gyro]

Yeah it used to be about 65% penalty in the 20s back in the day and 85% at the top end, it's much more reasonable now

[dawn totem]

I can't believe on Tuesday we'll learn the next class making the Rogue Trader's ship even more crowded

[fierce marten]

What's the biggest ad mech unit

New class, imperial titan

Braum gets to extra complain about not enough space

[heavy geyser]

One more class rounds out the Kill Team.

[rocky dagger]

<@&1042950387478560878> any tideing at 2:30 am

[grave talon]

I manage to get a friend into the game

[opaque crown]

Im sure everyone is speculating what the new class would be
My current guesses are

• tech adept
• a member of Brahm's crew (voidsman at arms)
• hired gun (arbites already has the dog so maybe not)
• ratling (I'll never fully let it go.

Id like to see the class come with either dual wielding weapons or weapons that are a melee + pistol at the same time.

I'm not convinced of a hive ganger but do accept that it's a possibility

If we get the voidsman at arms, we could get their rotary gun

Another hail Mary idea is a gsc cultist; which would be super unlikely but very funny

[crystal sluice]

ratling on stilts

[sacred pagoda]

I’m basing my assumption about it being an AdMech character on the fact that Space Marine 2 is getting a Techmarine. It’s not the soundest theory, but it has some basis in reality at least.

[flint moss]

i really want one so im hoping youre right

[drowsy tusk]

Combat servitor that takes some of the features from skitarii units while not actually being a skitarii or tech adept cause I think both of those are too important to be reject is my thought

Also I really like the servitor models that have a heavy weapon instead of one arm and a industrial claw thing on the other

[sacred pagoda]

I think it might be a rank-and-file Enginseer too far down the totem pole to be truly valuable.

[sonic elbow]

actual arbites are damn high up the totem pole too

did we ever get the rank of the playable arbites?

[sacred pagoda]

They're Arbitrators. The rank-and-file of the Adeptus Arbites doorkickers.

If you get one of the helmets with a crest on it you can be a sergeant.

The actual rank is probably Trooper or Enforcer.

The lowest two ranks, according to Lexicanum.

[sacred pagoda]

We're low-ranking Arbitrators of unclear specialization. We're not part of an Exaction Squad, though. One of the callouts laments the fact that the part of the Hive the team's operating in should be scoured by an Exaction squad, which I think rules out us being Exactors.

Oh, we're Subductors.

If the Exactors are SWAT, the Subductors are your standard-issue riot cops.

(At least, in the common perception of these police roles.)

There's a lot more lore on the Arbites than I was expecting.

[dawn totem]

I'm really enjoying how Atoma Prime is shit detail for everyone involved.

[spiral badger]

Except the enforcer psyker

Who loves it here

[sacred pagoda]

The war is going so badly that they had to call the cops.

[dawn totem]

Also, I was really curious about the Arbites since I'm playing Rogue Trader and they're all about the tithing

[spiral badger]

Also technically we had the cops the whole time, again, enforcer psyker

The arbites are more like the space FBI

[dawn totem]

Right. Like, the Arbites will show up on a world for a specific reason. Right?

[spiral badger]

There are arbites garrisons but generally we're still talking like, a few hundred for a whole ass planet

So yeah, they only show up for very specific things

[sacred pagoda]

Some of my friends and I do little roleplaying vignettes with our old Warhammer characters.

And one of the scenarios was them ending up on Atoma. The funny part is that they're in service of the Ordo Xenos... as the retinue of a Kill-Marine.

Captain Wulfer's Bad Day just got worse.

[dawn totem]

At this point people are sleeping in the halls of the trader ship.

[sacred pagoda]

It was kinda funny imagining Wulfer's response to a loyalist Space Marine just kind of showing up on Atoma.

Also, about time.

[ionic tusk]

a couple of the vets also like it
"wow this is almost exactly what I was doing before except my life expectancy per mission somehow went up from 1% to 2%??? great!"

[sacred pagoda]

The Ogryns are generally having fun too.

[ionic tusk]

even loose cannon is like "wooo no commissars!!"

[marsh gyro]

Enforcer Psyker: "No pleasure should be taken from the suffering of another!"
Bodyguard Ogryn: "But that's the best part!"

[ionic tusk]

the zealots are also oscillating between having the time of their lives and an empty hollow feeling that the crusade isn't as good as they had hoped and they have to work with psykers

like it's shit detail
but most of the rejects were in worse shit before/don't really mind

[marsh gyro]

Which zealot was it that lit folks on fire that shouldn't have been on fire?

[sacred pagoda]

The Arbitrators range from "Another day on the job, eh Lexmate?" to "[internal screaming]"

[ionic tusk]

all of the reject voices also feel like they were made for lategame

where your reject has watched 300 other rejects die in their missions but ended up surviving long enough to get a formal place on the warband

like they still mostly work for lower levels
but some convos feel a bit weird

[ionic tusk]

like the aforementioned "wow I didn't expect this to increase my life expectancy" one

mostly because the average life expectancy of a bot is like
1/3rd of a mission

[tough compass]

Well, they were most recently on a prison ship

I forgot if they were all slated for execution or not too

[ionic tusk]

the opening cutscene has someone imply that they are but they were also really thirsty to kill the reject themselves early so I feel like they were just assuming they were going to get executed instead of used for something else

they were being transported alongside wolfer otherwise my guess would be they were all gonna be prison regimented (which does end up happening, since not every reject can logically be the one to save zola)

[sacred pagoda]

I need to look at my Veteran again now that I've got my Arbitrator up to Auric.

[ionic tusk]

I think vet is the strongest right now!

the old meta build is basically the same plus a ton of goodies that were too taxing to afford

and a couple nice talents got smushed or improved

[sacred pagoda]

It felt really brittle after I tried it again recently, but I think that's just me being used to Arbitrator being so tanky.

[ionic tusk]

vet with shout and vet without shout are basically two different classes

[tough compass]

"No, ogryn is the strongest!" - Ogryn confused at there being multiple meanings of "strongest", probably

[ionic tusk]

if you have this in your build
you are not playing the same game as the rest of the vets

[tough compass]

Shout is ridiculously good

[ionic tusk]

but also the revival node is a trap node that costs a talent point to make you weaker

[tough compass]

I did like infiltrate because it lasts just long enough to do certain mission objectives. But it's more situational

[ionic tusk]

yeah, and a lot of the time shouting does the same thing

infiltrate has two main things holding it back:

• the crowd control it's supposed to have doesn't really exist
• you take overwatch and have a 60 second cooldown. it is not worth 60 seconds. but having a 45s cooldown with 1 charge is gonna feel even worse

[sacred pagoda]

I apparently went right down the center.

[ionic tusk]

like. 80% of the time, running at a group of enemies and shouting is going to be more effective than stealthing and running at a group of enemies, and you can do it twice as often

[tough compass]

Suppression seems like a weird effect for something where you have to be next to people. How does it and enemies switching to melee work?

[ionic tusk]

suppression is actually good

[tough compass]

(melee units are basically immune to suppression right?)

[ionic tusk]

on like chorus which fully suppresses everything in your half of the room

[ionic tusk]

lessers aren't

which is actually decent cc

[tough compass]

... when you put it that way

[ionic tusk]

in psych ward the only thing I could get the suppression to work on was reapers, everything else didn't care

also: the new ranged enemy has totally fucked up suppression values and might as well be fully immune to it

[tough compass]

Oh huh, I thought book was a push and not suppression

[ionic tusk]

it's both

the suppression is massive though in dealing with ranged enemies

the push is what staggers the melee enemies

one thing you can do to get more bang from your chorus is do a loop around your team to spread suppression
or dive towards the ranged enemies then back up before it ends

but the reason the lesser enemies cower instead of getting pushed is the suppression part of it

[sacred pagoda]

What's the secret to better survivability for Veteran?

[ionic tusk]

get a ton of toughness nodes

also confirmed kill

confirmed kill is half the sauce

this stacks

a lot of my older vet builds only had confirmed kill and shout for toughness regen

there's also a couple other significant nodes like iron will

also if you get both the +25 toughess nodes on the bottom that will help

these two nodes are anchor nodes so every build will have them, but they're pretty passive survivability

also a general darktide survival tip: slide. everywhere.
if it hurts to do, change your keybinds

it both prolongs your stamina so it last longer, and makes you dodge ranged attacks

[sacred pagoda]

I'm already doing that.

I was just having trouble staying on my feet with the Veteran.

[ionic tusk]

understandable

all the other classes do kinda have some sort of instant-toughness action that isn't an ability
dodging for zealot, anything warp related for psyker, melee stagger for arbites, hitting enemies for ogyrn
and some more passive ones that can work even in the thick of things

vet has to actually finish off the kills

[sacred pagoda]

Should also look at my weapon perks and stuff, I haven't adjusted them since I started to look into those more seriously.

[ionic tusk]

but imo shout being 100% and on so short a cooldown is massive

[sacred pagoda]

Yeah, I use the shout. It's strong as hell.

[ionic tusk]

oh also, depending on the keystone, you have some options there as well

this is super simple, just kill a single enemy and swap weapons later

[sacred pagoda]

I went with the middle one because I like being able to pick out targets.

And debuff the bosses.

[ionic tusk]

this one is also decent, keep in mind the minimum stacks is 1 so if you spam tag a ton of elites in a row that get killed by allies you could still get a tonnn of 5% procs in short succession

[sacred pagoda]

Do I want Rampage or Brutal Momentum on a power sword?

[ionic tusk]

I kind of hate it because it makes binding tag to LMB optimal

[sacred pagoda]

Also, eying this Power Falchion because I haven't tried this weapon yet.

That Mobility score, though...

Eh, I'll think about it while I'm out grocery shopping.

[flint moss]

it's a one handed relic sword, so faster swings and less damage per hit

[opaque crown]

At its best if you can consistently swing at around head height

But also not bad as a generalist melee for the vet

[fierce marten]

It's the horde clear version of the relic blade

[drowsy tusk]

The relic blade is the horde clear version of the relic blade

[fierce marten]

Power Falchion clears the unarmored guys quicker

Faster swing

The damage against armored guys is painful

[opaque crown]

How's it's niche compared to the normal power sword marks?

[marsh gyro]

It's less about huge bursts of damage and more for sustained slashing for a good while

[flint moss]

you switch it on and then it has a heat meter, you dont reactivate it every few swings

also the base swings are not as weak as power swords because you cant go all in on pwered swings

[ionic tusk]

no that's the blaze force greatsword

[drowsy tusk]

Also that

[ionic tusk]

blaze force greatsword: what if your melee weapon was actually a ranged weapon?

[flint moss]

helbore lasgun: what if your ranged weapon was actually a melee weapon?

[fierce marten]

You can shoot with a helbore?
Me just bayoneting everyone

[ionic tusk]

imagine if you could put the helbore lasgun and the blaze force greatsword on the same class

...how good is helbore's facestabbing damage against carapace and unyielding
that might actually be a peak combo if it was real

[fierce marten]

Imagine an anti armor staff

One that kills quick like the plasma gun, it was sort of what I hoped voidstrike would be until I used it

[heavy geyser]

The threat lurking beneath Tertium isn't a Genestealer cult, it's a lost Skaven clan, and this is how GW reveals Skaven in 40K

[fierce marten]

I wish

Ratling but only the rat part is right, darktide is actually vermintide 3 40k

There is something that happened in Fantasy where Skaven accidentally called an Aeldari craftworld and immediately smashed the warpcaster when they heard a nonskaven

[heavy geyser]

That's how they got to Atoma, and why the Eldar are starting to show up around the planet.

[fierce marten]

Fantasy elves hate skaven, space elves hate skaven. It all tracks

[sacred pagoda]

That's gonna be a dealbreaker, I think. I hate armor with a passion and am always looking for ways to murder armored opponents faster.

[heavy geyser]

Power Falchion can kill armor guys fine.

It likes the same talents as precision weapons or anything that wants headshots

build it for weakspot damage

and then chop heads with it

This is how I have mine built

I run power falchion on something like this with an infantry autogun and its been one of my favorite Vet builds lately

Once you get the head chopping momentum going its really strong, you'd be surprised what it can kill in one stroke.

[ionic tusk]

uncanny strike dueling sword mark 4 is still probably the best possible thing for that, somewhat unfortunately

tho you can also run kraks! idk when you last used them, but they're a lot better as of 1 update ago

[heavy geyser]

brittleness talent and recon lasgun do a number on armor too

[fierce marten]

Kraks are so nice for boss damage and crusher packs

Especially since I don't trust random people to be able to duel a crusher pack in melee and yeeting a krak into one while dealing with something else is nice

[sacred pagoda]

Yeah, packs of Crushers and Maulers spook me on Veteran because I don't have the Arbitrator's "No, shut up." tools like the flash on the shield or the charge.

That little bit of breathing room has saved my ass so often.

[marsh gyro]

It's a little tough you gotta pay the talent tax for kraks to one shot crushers on Auric

[sacred pagoda]

Okay yeah, this feels a bit more sturdy.

Need to find a power sword with a better stat spread though.

[gentle flame]

Man it's really annoying how many people who are NOT ready to handle auric queue for auric

They literally separated the difficulties so that they could queue damnantion without auric modifier in quickplay

Died to a crusher hitting from too far away and then spend 9 minutes waiting for them to clear one room just to absolutely fumble a single trapper bomber combo.

[gentle flame]

[sacred pagoda]

So do we want to recover or destroy these rations?

[marsh gyro]

Each day, depending which is in front, a different buff turns up (recover makes the enemies buffer but you get super stims, destroy makes them more numerous but you get more ammo); this won't matter since I think today's the last day for the event

[waxen patio]

Recover and then destroy (eat) the rations.

[sacred pagoda]

I'm not eating anything left behind by a Nurgle cult, are you nuts?

[fierce marten]

Not an Ogyrn main I see

I recover the rations cause I want to know what happens if things get worse with more nurgle plague on Atoma

[sacred pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/nurgle-nurgling-chaos-god-disgusting-warhammer-40k-gif-4108490376302954627

[flint moss]

holy shit that daemon is voguing

[heavy geyser]

My tech is to mash whichever button the weapon I want is

i'm restroying them, or decovering?

[spiral badger]

I just installed the mod that interacts with them automatically

[marsh gyro]

That would have been nice earlier because it'll glitch out while holding block on melee/ADS-ing and interacting with them and keep the block/ADS up until you switch weapons and not let you fire

[brazen fossil]

I wish we could dash forward

Having to spin 90° every time i want to dash forward is silly

[heavy geyser]

You can dashslide forward

You can also get a big burst of dash momentum forward if you hold sprint or toggle sprint on while charging a heavy melee attack

The longer you charge the heavy attack, the further the burst of movement goes, and then you can slide to preserve the momentum and go even further

[ionic tusk]

shout and the arbites charge do like the same thing to crusher balls
the shout is even omni directional

[ionic tusk]

I think they mean dodge? and afaik there's no way to dodge forward
however ime sprint sliding forward is usually better anyways since you can time the slides under ranged attacks

except when disengaging from melee ig 🤔
then I totally do the camera rotate thing haha

[brazen fossil]

Yes dodge sorry

Also i wait because i main ogryn

And want to slam into things

[ionic tusk]

understandable

[brazen fossil]

I hope we get an alternative shield for ogryn

The arbites one feels so much better to use

[ionic tusk]

also, vet gets a ton of nades so shredders can be used to cc crusher balls even if you don't take kraks to kill them

[sacred pagoda]

I’ve decided that I like the power falchion because its heat mechanic is easier for me to manage than the power sword’s energized mode.

[marsh gyro]

It tends to last long enough to zip zap through one horde

[dawn totem]

I do like the power sword for weed whacking through horses if not just mulching them all together

[cyan depot]

Those poor horses…..

[marsh gyro]

Warhamster Horsie K

[ionic tusk]

in the grim future of the 41st millennium, there is only honse

[tough compass]

12 year old me is snickering at "crusher balls" here

[ionic tusk]

my gf was snickering at 'rager balls' earlier heheho

X balls is generally how I refer to elites tho 😔

tho it's more prominent with the melee elites

[cyan depot]

We should call them herds I think

[sonic elbow]

hardly know er

[ionic tusk]

idk to me it always feels like a moshpit yet to be formed by a cc ability

and herds makes it sound to monotype I think 🤔

it's not just a crusher pack, it's a crusher pack + a rager pack + a mauler pack + a bunch of lessers

[fierce marten]

The not at all confusing and vague term my old crew used was "armored guys"

The big armors, bucketheads, spiky ragers

[tough compass]

Pack sounds more threatening than herd, ha

"rugby team" is good for comedic value

[ionic tusk]

what's a combination of packs?
a packpack if you would

[heavy geyser]

a 30-rack of tall boys.

[fierce marten]

The melee optional gun build
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9uCSzrH1zA

Infinite ammo

[flint moss]

the yyehaw lord

[sacred pagoda]

New class announcement today…

[cyan depot]

Oh shit, I forgot that was today

[brazen fossil]

https://images.steamusercontent.com/ugc/10377335626797825052/7015FA9DF2D2CB1A405E256CA3F3E52DF8995D50/

🙁

[crystal sluice]

swag

[brazen fossil]

dec 2 is a lot earlier then I expected tbh

but damn do I want to know

the theory crafting is killing me

[sacred pagoda]

goddammit this was the only thing I was looking forward to today.

[flint moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/224720978633162752/1346959287154380810/gifkitties_-_1751530766981370189.gif

[drowsy tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/tunti35-pain-painkiller-stickmanpain-tunay-gif-22123906

[shrewd kite]

[foggy panther]

honestly

i think its ganger

and they realized most people don't want a ganger

[neon nymph]

What you think they're gonna kludge together a Skitarius in a week?

[foggy panther]

no but am guessing they want to reframe the trailer a bit

to try and show less of the class' gameplay

[shrewd kite]

sounds like it was GW's decision apparently

[ionic tusk]

iirc they didn't show much gameplay with the arbites trailer either

[shrewd kite]

if i had to guess, a cosmetic that's prominently featured in the trailer got shitcanned literally this morning or something. OR they're doing another timed announcement like arbites and the second project isn't ready for prime time

[foggy panther]

maybe

[sacred pagoda]

I really hope it’s not a ganger.

[heavy geyser]

speak for yourself

[fierce marten]

I'd be surprised if it was skiitari with the recent announcement, it seems like it could be a rather complex class to do in such a short time. But not too surprised since Space Marines 2 is going to have tech marines around the same time

[fierce marten]

It's like the most guessed thing besides skiitari

[sacred pagoda]

That’s why I’ve been assuming it’s a Tech-Priest of some kind. I don’t think it’ll be a Skitarii though.

I’m of the opinion that it’ll be an Enginseer who annoyed Hadron one too many times.

[fierce marten]

Combat servitor but Kayex wasn't jokimg about preservitors all characters who has died once will automatically become one

[fierce marten]

My guess is whatever class they had planned was changed last minute by GW

They talked about how they had 3 classes in the works and GW had the say on which one was released

And it was almost not Arbites until GW changed their mind

[tough compass]

They did say when Arbites came out that they prototyped two (three?) other classes at the same time

[fierce marten]

Yea the dev interview of arbites behind the scenes

They gave 0 details on the other 2 classes

Maybe this was it
https://youtu.be/mNJbEatXEGY?si=PSc9FZ1V570eEZYg

Quite a few darktide youtubers had chats with the dev as like part of their special playtester club

I will say, it will be very funny if fatshark throws a curveball again, I do not think anyone really guessed arbites since it was mostly ratling, skiitari, enforcer, or ganger.

Imagine if they just dropped a Squat secretly from the League of Votanns

[cyan depot]

My guess is honestly it was just like scheduling failings on the marketing stuff around the class

I doubt it was anything really deep

[fierce marten]

The arbites trailers were basically cutscenes

I'm still guessing it's some last minute internal change

Could be as simple as, GW didn't like the first trailer so they're being redone real fast

[haughty ember]

joke's on all of us it's actually Goboute Rulliman

[cyan depot]

No way that gets done in a week

That’s why I think it’s scheduling stuff

[brazen fossil]

Im with you

I really want a ganger

[fierce marten]

I could see it done in a week

The first arbites trailer was like a minute long and it was basically just a first person view from a low angle of something chasing heretics soon to be revealed as dog

[cyan depot]

The pre-rendered one?

[fierce marten]

Yea

The arbites trailers came out like a month apart so they didn't drop a gameplay trailer off the bat

Pre rendered trailer then weeks later a gameplay trailer, enough time for changes whatever they might be to be made

[split mantle]

We personally feel a skiitari would be out of place but something like a tech adept could work

Ie not technically a full member of the mechanicum but someone very much associated with them

MissCodedVIIrOS (Her/She) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1159883850562932826 message) I'd be surprised if it was skiitari with the recent announcement, it seems like it could be a rather…

[fierce marten]

Arbite's was fairly out of place at first

Whatever fatshark wants they'll make it fit.

Or rather GW wants

We have both a rogue trader and an inquisitor, they could really requisition anyone into their retinue

Even xenos mercenaries

And new class doesn't need to be part of Brahms or Grendyls warband, arbites are not under either they are just here under their own power.

If they do go ad mech could be anything really

[shrewd kite]

remind me, did the arbites release trailer come with a blog, or was that later with the gameplay trailer?

[fierce marten]

That came later

So the announcement that there is a new class already differs from arbites launch

[shrewd kite]

anyways, my money is still on an admech class timed to be announced alongside the mechanicus 2 release date or something

[fierce marten]

I'm on that boat too

Although my copium says ratling or new ratling (Votann) cause it'd be funny

[cyan depot]

Omg new class is an Ironhead

My eyes have been opened

[fierce marten]

That was my thinking

Yes these are definitely iron heads prospectors from necromunda and definitely not anywhere else wink

[shrewd kite]

see, my impression of the inquisition was that they would be more liable to shoot xenos on-sight than a rogue trader, but the owlcat DH game has a more diverse cast than rogue trader's so 🤷

[fierce marten]

Inquisitors vary from Puritan to radical

[cyan depot]

We unable to see over chest high walls in this bitch

[fierce marten]

Puritans yes, radical might do stuff like have Eldar mercenary retinue for a bit or even like daemonhost

Never ask an inquisitor what faction their girlfriend is

[quiet escarp]

God I wish, but I think Fatshark has said that because of the way shooting is designed they won't be making any significantly shorter classes

[shrewd kite]

i remember in rogue trader i romanced the inquisitor while going full chaos and he was apparently unbothered by all the chaos flesh mcgubbins growing in my quarters

[cyan depot]

They have yeah

[fierce marten]

Do note fat shark has gone back on stuff

[cyan depot]

But Kin aren’t actually super short

[fierce marten]

Like Solo mode was guaranteed*

[shrewd kite]

if it's a votann they could also just give him extended pumps on his powersuit or whatever to make it work

i'd complain about the powerscaling but that's all over the place at this point honestly

[fierce marten]

Votann aren't that short cause they got the tall power suit

[shrewd kite]

oh yeah they already have the goblin-legged power suits that would work fine tbh

[cyan depot]

It’s not even needed they’re just not really shorter

[quiet escarp]

I feel like if they added a squat and actually went with this scale people would get confused and upset unfortunately

Because space dwarf that isn't short is kind of a weird thing

[fierce marten]

Lol lmao - fatshark

[shrewd kite]

anyway, apparently dark heresy is also entering alpha in december so it would also be linked to that i guess

kroot confirmed

[fierce marten]

Votann are Canon faction with their own product line now

[brazen fossil]

yeah

and they aint short

[fierce marten]

Out of everything weird in 40k tall dwarves are too much?

[brazen fossil]

they are shorter

but not short

[fierce marten]

I'm pretty sure if you do min height humans in game that like Votann height

[quiet escarp]

Well sure but the tabletop scale is also all over the road

And I think conceptually people expect the squats to be squat

[fierce marten]

Right so if it's all over the place tall dwarves wouldn't be an issue

[cyan depot]

I think that’s about right yeah

[spiral badger]

my weird thought is "did someone do some stupid AI shit on some aspect of the trailer and they caught it"

[tough compass]

They can have a class ability to stand on the robot to see over low walls better

[brazen fossil]

the votann arnt squats tho

[fierce marten]

Power stilts

[shrewd kite]

i think the specific thing that makes me suspect GW interference is the fact that they apparently can't even release a shitty promo blog to tide people over

[tough compass]

I thought Squats are now Votann that have somehow been living in the Imperium for several generations?

[shrewd kite]

makes me think they might need to go back and change some aspect of the character's visuals or something

[cyan depot]

https://preview.redd.it/new-leagues-of-votann-images-art-and-size-comparison-v0-u0k96pi52r891.jpg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2550d8ccd1b80f711da7301c0769ac4145c3bb7

[marsh gyro]

I'm thinking it's simpler than that and they just got some kinda hard crash they can't figure out in the dev build

[cyan depot]

There’s not a lot of art showing height comparisons but they’re only marginally shorter than humans generally

[marsh gyro]

This is also plausible

[cyan depot]

(And even the models are notably bigger than AoS/fantasy dwarves)

[fierce marten]

They do look short without scale so it's easy to make the mistake they're short

They're just about human size but real wide

[tough compass]

maybe they would be short if it wasn't for scale creep

[cyan depot]

Squats are an old name or something

[tough compass]

I think it's considered a bit of a slur?

[fierce marten]

Is squat stuff even still canon with Votann

[cyan depot]

Ironheads are kind of their inheritors but they’ve been on Necromunda for a long time

[cyan depot]

Yes technically

[quiet escarp]

The Ironheads are still called squats

[cyan depot]

Outside of some stuff in Inquisition War

[shrewd kite]

iirc squat used to be the old canon name back when they were just regular imperial abhumans?

[tough compass]

Everything is canon, not everything is true etc.

[quiet escarp]

And I would expect an Ironhead rather than an actual Votann kyn

[fierce marten]

They technically ate abhumans still, human base but made in weird ancestral AI powered cloning vat

[cyan depot]

Same

[shrewd kite]

i wasn't really paying attention when the votann were introduced, but how did they actually go over

[fierce marten]

You see, no Votann calls themselves as such as they choose to hide their true identities to the imperium

[shrewd kite]

cause it seems to me like they have a lot of the same issues as the tau? Weird, technologically advanced, non-imperial civ that's resistant to chaos and just kinda does their own thing

[cyan depot]

People like em but the release was sort of soured by them being insanely competitively busted initially

[fierce marten]

The imperium very much does not know they have ironkin and ancestral cores that are 100% AI

[cyan depot]

And then getting kind of ignored for a while

[brazen fossil]

I honestly think the class might be a sister of battle, GW is pretty petty about those

[shrewd kite]

idk what a sister would bring to the table that a zealot doesn't already honestly

[fierce marten]

Tracks, Ogyrns are all male so SoB being all female balances it out

[shrewd kite]

then again darktide basically has like, 10 ability archetypes 🤷

[fierce marten]

You could argue arbites is just veteran with a dog

But it's in the game

[quiet escarp]

The Ironheads also kind of have crazy proportions

[tough compass]

More types of fire?

[shrewd kite]

they kinda are honestly! arbites is fun as hell to play but aside from the dog they are fairly conservative in terms of their abilities

[brazen fossil]

money

[shrewd kite]

charge. shooting stance. aoe debuff. grenade, CC grenade. The dog explosion is kinda unique tbh

[fierce marten]

Yea so I don't think it being too similar to what an current class could be reimagined as is a limitation for new classes

[cyan depot]

I think a lot of their “weirdness budget” is the buppy

[brazen fossil]

agreed

[tough compass]

I think the weapon selection helps them feel different too?

[brazen fossil]

imo the arbites is a "tanky vet with dog"
a sister being "a tanky zealot with BIG GUN" is not far fetched

[fierce marten]

Ogyrn is just a big vet, zealot is just a vet high on faith, psyker is just a magic vet

[shrewd kite]

truth nuke honestly. there's a reason the very first teaser trailer was just 4 vets

[fierce marten]

Iirc darktide was going to be like everyone plays 5 kinds of guardsman

[tough compass]

Of course the vet and psyker are the same: they both have unlimited blitzes!

[spiral badger]

if it was based on actual proportions of available rejects every team would be vet and zealot

[fierce marten]

Ogyrn and vet also have unlimited blitz with rock and knife

[spiral badger]

ogryns and psykers stable enough to sent out but stupid enough to be arrested are pretty thin on thee ground

[shrewd kite]

i consider assail to be kind of a sister ability to the rock and knife

[frank igloo]

I mean it doesnt have to be stupidity, just unlucky

[fierce marten]

4 Ogyrn squad without any handlers is a wild thing to even consider

[spiral badger]

it's more the first bit tbh

[tough compass]

I feel like for an ogryn, it's more being smart enough to be arrested

[spiral badger]

even after the Great Awakening functional psykers, even to the limited standard of the Seer, are uh

[fierce marten]

I'd say like psyker too, yes let's send these 4 death row psykers on an arbites prisoner barge armed and going into a hive city

[spiral badger]

pretty hard to get a hold of

and if you sent 4 loner psykers down as a squad they're just gonna Vanish

:v

all 4 just looking at each other and going "bretheren, let's just go"

[cyan depot]

we have all been KIA in a manner so unspeakable you shouldn’t even try to find out what happened, do not contact us again

[fierce marten]

The funniest thing fatshark could do is do exactly as arbites launch. Rogue Trader & DarkTide both new arbites as classes.

Space Marines 2 & Dark Tide now have Tech Marines as new classes. An tech marine is a level of power over arbites just as arbites was over rejects so it all makes sense /s

[sonic elbow]

I think the idea with a lot of the rejects is to pull the pin on them, toss them into a chaos stronghold and close the door

[fierce marten]

Then we get Eldar Cosair being a tier above Tech Marines

[tough compass]

The rejects are all pretty big loyalists in Darktide. Otherwise they could easily cut and run, yeah

[shrewd kite]

loner and loose cannon do pretty openly entertain the idea of defecting

[spiral badger]

the loner psyker is explicitly not a loyalist. honestly they're so borderline heretical that they probably should just have been shot

[shrewd kite]

but like, where would you go

[fierce marten]

Anywhere really

[spiral badger]

outright saying things like "corpse emperor"