Undertale and Deltarune

[ripe harbor]

As real as every history of every Dark World, at least

Or maybe it's less like a wall, and more like a net (Seam seems a seasoned seamer), and the only thing that keeps people from wandering off the edges are the bindings they have to the world (to each other?)

Which is why I think Ramb was..! Ramb was..!!

[low surge]

Yeah I never considered that bit

Why would the Rabbick say all that?

And I do wonder about mini kris

[ripe harbor]

aha I had to go looking for this because I didn't know where it was and started to think I imagined it

(Its from the Official Undertale Cross-Stitch Book, which exists I guess)

"Essential for ripping out a misaligned stitch if you're too far along to simply pull the threads back out. Once wielded by Seam in combat."

it corrects errors

If you are creating something & you want that something to be a specific shape, and you don't notice the issue until its already set in there, this helps.

[low surge]

Like what happens after it walks off screen? We controlled it every time it was on screen, so what happens after?

Does some third party take it over? How does it walk past unless someone/something else is controlling it

[ripe harbor]

Kris also loses their Shadow after walking into the Mantle game, so between Mini-Kris, Kris, and Kris' reflection we got a lotta human shaped things

either way I guess we 'photocopied another Kris to play with'(?)

[ripe harbor]

considering theres a third party who leaves at the exact same time though, that's my bet

something left, and something walked past the ribbick, and the latter looked like Kris (but they were just standing in front of a mirror in the 'things come to life' world long enough that the mirror started talking to them)

the thing you see in the mirror looks like & is what is called you, so I could see it.

Is your reflection more unnerving when it reflects you mercilessly but faithfully, or when it walks away?

when the copy is exact, or when it's.... 'new'?

maybe its just a nightmare either way

[ripe harbor]

honestly when talking about 'It' in the context of 'freaky Spamton flavor text (implied phone)' the second part is probably important too

"It pulls the strings and makes them ring, until your heart- (...ripped up? breaking up, breaks up?)"

[desert raven]

Used up?

[ripe harbor]

Whatever It is, theres interest in the Soul

'Used up' is good too

[desert raven]

It’s all very very weird

[ripe harbor]

breaks up has a phone pun, so I like that interpretation

[desert raven]

Not sure what “used up” would mean other than connecting it to the Sword Route
Which was kind of already done
Breaks up is good

[ripe harbor]

plus the Soul is already described as having a connection that could break(?) like how a phone connection could(?)

[desert raven]

“The bonds you break may make you stronger”

[ripe harbor]

they all mean about the same thing to me tbh

at least the important part, which is 'damage to the Soul'

[desert raven]

Whether that means emotional bonds or restrictions is up in the air

[ripe harbor]

something happens to it & thats either a warning from Spamton, or a desire of whoever he was in contact with

[ripe harbor]

I go with 'both'

without bonds you aren't 'up in the air' at all, lmao

[desert raven]

Fingers ???? Phone
???? All alone
It pulls the strings and makes them ring
Until your heart ??? Up

[ripe harbor]

to be definite, to have a tightly-bound place, to have ties- all restrict you. But they might be better than none at all.

[desert raven]

Also, yeah, probably
Toby really likes putting multiple meanings on one word

[ripe harbor]

thats a joke about how Spamton's fight ends

on pacifist, at least

[desert raven]

I literally just got it

Good one

[clear frost]

i think it's coming for me, answer the phone
i can't explain 'til you're all alone
it pulls the strings and makes them ring
until your heart is breaking up!
-what i'm pretty sure the background lyrics are

[ripe harbor]

I think that's about right, but the weird hand-stuff elsewhere got me second guessing

[clear frost]

the first lyric is probably the most correct out of the unknown ones tbh

[desert raven]

Although in the Sweepstakes, apparently the first 3 letters are FIN

[ripe harbor]

sweepstakes also had "FindHer" as the catchphrase & the question asked for the wrong songs lyrics & Spamton was talking

[desert raven]

Although that may be Spamton not being trustworthy

[ripe harbor]

the only one that got a response was someone asking for the lyrics to "Nows Your Chance To Be A"

its... questionable yeah lmao. Theres a non-zero chance its also a "Fingers in his ass" joke

[desert raven]

And, honestly, the first three letters are “N O W”
As “now’s your chance to be a big shot” is before the garbled stuff

[ripe harbor]

see yeah thats 90% of the important bits to me

[desert raven]

So “FIN” probably is either “Findher” or a “fingers in his ass joke”

[ripe harbor]

(Fearful) - 'coming-', 'the phone', '-all alone', 'It pulls the strings and makes them ring until your heart gets ???'

even without the specifics that doesnt paint a good picture

[desert raven]

And it loops twice with the second loop getting cut off at “until”

[ripe harbor]

because it pulls the strings and pulls the strings and-

that part is emphasized. It engages or is engaging in manipulation.

It has Plans™

or at least desires

[desert raven]

It’s an active driver of Plot Things

[ripe harbor]

this is sort of where it gets weird considering how Spamton talks about 'Mike' and how Spamton talks about 'It' and who/what/which one is Phone

[desert raven]

There’s also how Mike and UNUSED are the only times his shop sprite has the static in his eyes

[ripe harbor]

its so funny he quotes Unused

[desert raven]

It’s just… mindbendy
Also, I was replaying the chapters earlier and my compliments to whoever thought to have his dialogue overrun the dialogue box

I’m also kind of scared by the fact that [Hyperlink Blocked] apparently isn’t just a Spamton thing????
Why, organnikk, why do you know what that is?
Or, at least, that it is?

[ripe harbor]

its possible he's more afraid of a, idk, bug-cleaning program? than ?

Organnikks are kinda like Spamton tbh, his eyes going static and them picking up echoes from the dark (as pipes) is kinda the same thing

just slightly different visuals

they pick up sound. presumably from the Air Waves.

they repeat stuff

A CRACKED CONCH, SURROUNDED BY WASHED UP GLASS.
NOT A PERSON SEEMED TO WANT IT. (<- like the OddController)

THE SOUND OF THE OCEAN...
A PITY, IT WAS JUST REPEATING ALL IT KNEW.

they repeat what they hear from "The Ocean"

kind of a Gaster-coded segment too, imo. He's cracked ( || || ), he brings fragments of glass, his prophecy repeats from the sea.

contextually this is also kinda Tenna, who is washed-up and only repeating reruns when you find this conch

[desert raven]

Waves, air waves, ripples, water, darkness

[ripe harbor]

& who the game probably wants you to pity at least a bit, especially as everyone leaves / nobody wants him.

[desert raven]

“Air, water, fire”

No wait

“Fire, Water, Air”

[ripe harbor]

interesting how information can be retained, even as it passes through Another Medium

[ripe harbor]

I like that chapter 4 leaned into the Darkners as just straight up fae and elementals

[desert raven]

It is, isn’t it?
And yet things change no matter what you do
A repetition changes, sometimes slow, sometimes fast

[ripe harbor]

yeah, they're also toys and tools and funny objects. but sometimes they're water sprites, and sometimes there isn't actually a difference between the two.

Kami-ass

[desert raven]

Oh! This actually reminds me, that CH4 actually kept the entertainment theming

[ripe harbor]

books!

and music Ig

[desert raven]

It’s just that Fantasy Novel isn’t as visible as TV, Computer, or Board Games

At least in a fantastical RPG

So…
CH5 comic books theme?

I guess?

Also, it will probably have some connections to Snowden

On a vibes-level, probably, but they will still be there

All I really know is that CH7 will be peak

[ripe harbor]

Sans will be there (/s)

[desert raven]

Actually, maybe?
He might genuinely
As CH6 is probably Shelter and 7 is most likely Full Blown Weird Shit

It kind of feels like it’s starting to be the last time characters going into the Dark World for the first will be really important

[ripe harbor]

its also going to be during the Festival, so some amusement park theming could fit

but tbh theres already a bit of that elsewhere in the other chapters, so idk

you already have a couple rollercoasters and a Ferris Wheel (with another coming up)

already some teacup rides

[ripe harbor]

I think they'll be a few more but they won't really be narrative hooks. More like Berdly who pretty much instantly accepts the fantasy.

I could see something like a Catti / Jockington shop, or whatever

[desert raven]

I really hope there is actual shop screens in the new chapters

[ripe harbor]

just occurred to me

how have I never seen any art of Noelle playing Mewgenics. she would love it.

[ripe harbor]

Their light-blocking mask is said to let them commune deeper with the truth of the dark.
I guess 'Communion' would be the term for this. They're both communing with the dark, establishing a connection.

just, uh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P8pn_Ml-mw

gotta be careful if you pick up any unintelligible laughter

Listen to it hard enough and it might even stop being entirely unintelligible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxdYukJZi88

but thats nonsense, it's pareidolia. There isn't actually anything there, of course, it's just that people can see faces in anything. In everything!

just because you have the feeling of being watched while alone, or a stabbing certainty that something you can't see is with you, doesn't actually mean there's anyone there.

its just a phantasm of the mind

(||& if you tell that to yourself enough you might even be able to believe it||)

[ripe harbor]

Ever since I started putting out milk, it's been disappearing.
S... So I'd like to think that there's a cat.

M... My cat.

though it can be a comfort sometimes

Nothing wrong with a little fantasy; nobody wants to be alone.

[ripe harbor]

Speaking of Communion, did you know that the knight-

[eager hinge]

art by @/lycorizz_ on twitter

i love berdly kregg

[ripe harbor]

everyone else I believe but I keep seeing this Kris as 'Varik in a Kris cosplay'

its a good Kris cosplay though tbh. good work Varik.

[ripe harbor]

(& @desert raven)
There's also a read you can make of "It pulls the strings and makes them ring" as playing into computer strings specifically, which might or might not be relevant.

imo, it's definitely at least part of the pun with Spamton's fight at least

He's a puppet, but he's also a program- those strings are also computing strings. I think it's why they get to be UI GREEN.

and the vibes of the flavor text (and how people talk about Spamton's quest, seriously, 'Something.... found him'?) definitely point towards 'pulling the strings' as a manipulative... I guess puppetmaster but I didn't head there on purpose.

but

"It" might also be something that pulls strings-as-in-data?

not really sure what that would mean

like it fits entirely and self-contained within Sneo being a computer-guy in the computer-world fighting you in the computer-data zone, but there's enough data storage and PROGRAM-ing elsewhere that it could be applicable beyond cyber world

Another common function [is] concatenation, where a new string is created by appending two strings, often this is the + addition operator.

maybe?!??

Spamton himself literally concatenates

he strings together sampled audio/text from elsewhere

[ripe harbor]

so you could read the cat function as something that 'pulls' separate strings together

& the read of "Playing a guitar is pulling on its strings" has also been around for a while, so there were/are(?) other people who considered the "it' to be Dess

I would definitely be afraid if I thought The Knight was coming for me. have you seen them.

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-the-knight-roaring-knight-knight-black-knife-gif-8688560492526146057

though it's hard to imagine any form of Dess or the Knight helping Spamton with business. Or honestly telling Jevil whatever weird stuff Jevil was told.

I think any read that the It is Dess would probably need to separate 'It' and whoever is Phone. also would imply Dess/The Knight in more of a position of power, doing the manipulation.

[desert raven]

Computer strings, huh…

[ripe harbor]

^ (David Hayter Voice)

[ripe harbor]

Its something I've noted too (though the Element system is sorta fast & loose, and enemies of an Element don't always use it tagged in their attacks),

that the ones who actually use the Cat element are just as much computer programs as regular cats. Tasque & Tasque Manager, mostly

The Shadowguy who brings the yarn in chapter 3, but not any of the Mikes in the Mike Room. odd.

maybe the rouxls one counts because yarn is a type of string, and 'strings' in the computing sense are more important to the element, maybe because it was supposed to have a gun, and so sticks out as an error(?), maybe something else.

Maybe they just didn't want to code the Mikes with Cat, lol

It would provide a sort of thematic connection between Element 6 & Gaster though, beyond "prolly his fault"

he's sorta computer-y

got a Device and everything

[ripe harbor]

ofc everything is a computer program in chapter 2, lmao. But it is also the chapter with the most outright cats everywhere, and Tasques being 'tasks' being processes / programs themselves makes them interesting compared to the Poppups

What does a stuffed-toy who sews, a marionette, a computer programmer, balls of yarn, possibly the cat command, and junk data all have in common? Strings, I guess.

but the computer-data bit seems like the important part, the literal strings seem like the aesthetic

or at least the idea of 'binding things together'? It's the simplest kind of connection.

[sour mesa]

Survey
What are some Undertale-inspired games that either you really really like, or it's just really really obvious they were riffing on Undertale?

[lethal ferry]

Deltarune

[sour mesa]

[astral quiver]

YIIK

[low surge]

Undertale Yellow

Honestly I don’t think I’ve come across any games that gameplay wise are riffing off UTDR

[lusty cypress]

There's lunarlux

but man, it has issues, in my opinion

[delicate cave]

Everhood was pretty clearly inspired by Undertale, but I've only seen it played rather than playing it myself.

[amber jolt]

everhood 1 is pretty good

tho 2 has a LOT of issues

and isn't worth playing imo

[tidal fox]

oh?

curious why you'd say that is

[sour mesa]

Not limiting myself to gameplay-wise (although I do have an obscure pick for that)
In Stars and Time jumps to mind for general thematic influence

[ripe harbor]

Everhoods good, been told Stars & Time is good,

theres quite a few itch.io rpgs and demos clearly inspired by them

https://levc-egm.itch.io/theothersidedemo?download

there was one that was very unsubtle about it...

https://gamejolt.com/games/HELLESCAPE/1008210

that was the name

this one might be the first thats more DR than UT inspired

[sour mesa]

iiiiiinteresting

[ripe harbor]

I think its cool- the dev seems young, but they clearly got talent

its what

say that again....

[sour mesa]

lol

[ripe harbor]

Look Outside has a few similar beats & a few direct references, but thats just because its riffing on all Earthbound-y rpgs

One of it's secret areas does a Man Behind The Tree bit, lol

changes the usual interact text to "There is an [X] here" for one interaction

its also ||in the glitch world, and its the one npc there who is 'a man'.||

for non-games sometimes you see an OC that's a little Susie or Kris coded

also I haven't watched this yet but

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFRhc6fyMIw

am I winning. is this gonna be what I hope its gonna be about.

"Solves Deltarune"

[strange cloud]

No but it’s true for Kressel

[ripe harbor]

ooo

I hadn't considered this before

"Your name is..." not directed towards the Soul (specifically)

putting in a pin in that + Noelle's nameless egg + as _

[low surge]

Neat something to listen to on my way to work

[low surge]

(@darkercandy)

I never considered enby Dess, maybe I’m a bad person

[ripe harbor]

interesting the way I agree with this one, but from the other angle

[low surge]

I do think there’s a lot to be considered in terms of our understanding of Dess and seeing her as a “lost girl” and if she considers herself such

The whole “maybe Dess wasn’t a good person” deal in a way

I think back to the “when you have a bat, everything looks like a ball” line

Maybe in some way Dess could have chosen this? Or embraced it?

Maybe the lost girl we’re trying trying to find doesn’t want to be found

[low surge]

Gotta say I largely agree with this

The || hometown is a copy of Undertale made by Gaster and everything and everyone is fake || at the end is a biiiiiiit of a stretch (lmao)

But the theory itself makes a lot of sense

I’ve never particularly liked Third Entity theory and think this does a sufficient job of explaining why the birdcage remains around and Kris’ general disposition before our arrival

And I think that Kris being the Vessel and having developed their own personality and being is a solid explanation for their general anxiety and seeming discomfort of being human even before our arrival in game

And it definitely conveys the whole “omg I’m video games” without having the characters directly look at the camera and say it

The Ch3-Undertale/Ramb-Sans/Tenna-Gaster thing is… interesting but I don’t think I fully agree? That last one feels like the most of a stretch compared to the other two. And even then idk

[restive comet]

Makes me think of the Itoki Hana song that Toby Fox composed, 74

https://youtu.be/poKI_MY0Bkw?si=57jipa84uCVK3g4M

[low surge]

Seeing Jaru put out a new video and going back and reading the total mental breakdown I had last time I watched one of his videos. Do I subject myself to the Torture™ again?

[low surge]

(@Kirwithdot)

[ripe harbor]

not the first time I've seen it as a read

one of those interpretations that's hard to disprove, lmao

its not entirely unfitting, though. It's basically just saying Hometown isn't more real than any Dark World, which like, maaaaaaybe. Idk.

Its thematically fitting as an outgrowth of Lightners not necessarily being more real than Darkners

You can literally ask Gaster to make you new Hometown copies though, in the Save menu at the start.

& you could say "That's not a new copy, it's just a parallel reality/timeline", but I'm not sure if DR makes a distinction between those tbh

The Dark Worlds are also 'parallel' worlds, with parallel histories.

The act of making one is almost more tuning a receiver, than creation from whole cloth?

A Dark World (maybe every possible Dark World) already exists in potentia. It's all already there, and creation is just sharpening a signal enough to see it clearly. Connecting with it?

I could buy that every Hometown exists already too, parallel but unreachable (ahaha.... unless? 👀)

[low surge]

I mean I’m not necessarily saying that it’s impossible, it’s just not my preference. Everyone actually being goner copies and the world being a facsimile etc. just isn’t as interesting. I think the idea of the light being as real as the dark world is more interesting yea

[ripe harbor]

yeah I definitely lean closer to a takeaway of "its all real" instead of "its all fake"

[low surge]

Would just be really weird, especially with the most recent two chapters, to go on and on about how everything matters and is valuable and just because it’s “fictional” doesn’t mean it isn’t important to “oh actually it’s all fake”

[low surge]

I think if Kressel is true there should be a special ending where if you chose one of the chopped ass haircuts for the vessel then Kris kills u

[astral quiver]

i think this now too

the game just ends

[wheat adder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1sycovo/why_does_his_ring_finger_look_like_that/

The divorce ring is real

[ripe harbor]

Not really any more than Kris being a 'fake' person wouldn't mean they matter, imo

though I think that one has more outright support than the entirety of Hometown

[ripe harbor]

but the bonds you break might make you stronger

[inland hare]

If I had a nickel for every time a game told me about how breaking of bonds is makes you stronger

I’d have three nickels

Which isn’t much but it’s odd it’s happened three times now

[ripe harbor]

it should happen MORE. Chuunibyou revolution NOW!!

[rain lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-roaring-knight-tenna-family-guy-peter-gif-9054462988448135825

i can't find that video. i love it

[ripe harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5kbIrbwl7s

[low surge]

Thank you NorthernLion, very cool

[wheat adder]

Tomorrow comes and Tobias Foxson sends out a skeet saying Deltarune is delayed indefinitely what do you do

[low surge]

Commission 700 togore angst pieces

So was anyone going to tell me Ash Veil Lane was posting again or was I just supposed to figure that out myself?!?!?

Also people have begun drawing Josuke with the FUN Gang and honestly I’m here for it

Do NOT put Susie and Okuyasu together in a room alone, the single stupidest idea ever conceived will form a stupidity singularity between the two of them

[minor merlin]

Togore angst so good I forgot he wasn't an actual character Toby made

[clear frost]

maybe the stupidity will cancel out like soundwaves

[low surge]

You’re getting a Susie’s Idea so fucking dumb it one shots Gaster somehow

[clear frost]

or maybe she tries to seal a fountain by using The Hand

[low surge]

using ZA HANDO for some shenanigans messing with Berdly

Obliterating his test right as he’s about to turn it in, Alphys doesn’t notice so she makes him take it again

Repeat this process several times

[ripe harbor]

I noticed it but tbh I don't actually know anything about the OG thing they did(?) except that the "roaring town" video haunted my recommended for months

[ripe harbor]

soundwave interference
YOU'RE getting The Cat. sorry!

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-friend-jumpscare-image-friend-cat-gif-6339952604681273867

[ripe harbor]

gibbs phenomenon lookin' ass. smh.

[low surge]

So not a revolutionary thought, but what if Toriel or Undyne were acceptable targets? Like the Knight very clearly wanted Toriel, but seems to have just opted for Undyne because the plan was falling apart. Kris didn’t really have to do all that extra stuff like slash the tires or leave the door open. Could have easily been Kris doing everything they could to ensure someone else would show up in time to take Toriel’s place

I still don’t particularly buy that Undyne was the sole intended target when there were significantly easier ways to capture her

[ripe harbor]

there might be some element of magical fate going on, tbf

the thing with the phone-voice talking about 'Susie must not get guitar' is similar- why leave the guitar out, or the code still in it, if thats an issue?

or did they just figure it out, and if so, how would they know & why?

There might not have been an actual easier way to handle things, there could be some factors about how things need to be done(?) (Can be done?) that are just unclear

maybe the plan was to just show up and nab Toriel, but the Lord of the Screen must be cleaved, and so the knight just happened to be delayed until the moment they could show up and do that

[ripe harbor]

I basically also agree with this. The Knight was clearly getting something from Toriel.

It'll probably be obvious in hindsight, but rn it's not even clear what kidnapping Undyne was for, much less why the Knight would want to do it. So its pretty hard to speculate with any confidence.

Maybe they were absorbing Toriel's memories to more strongly manifest in the Light World, maybe they're trying to get people to the shelter because the apocalypse is happening in a few days and they are actually altruistic, maybe they need a blood sacrifice for occult power

who knows!

[low surge]

(@tac_bats)

[gilded canopy]

I love it whenever the deltarune community makes the most gutwrenching, horrifying, disturbing artwork possible while staying within the bounds of the story

[ripe harbor]

WHEN THE SLEEPY DUCK IS CRYING
maybe that bird-theory person was onto something...

sleepy, winged, crying? That's not not how the Angel is described. really the waterworks type.

[gilded canopy]

I'm still not sure what word I have for why I love it. "Catharsis" might be the closest. I feel a sense of closure.

That and probably because people cook really hard when torturing their favorite little fictional mewmews.

[rain lotus]

movie knight

i can't wait to met you knows exactly what its doing

[ripe harbor]

kind of a sick perspective

puts the viewer in the position of behind the tree

haven't seen that before

[ripe harbor]

Reminded because of the tree+soul, & I'm sure someone has given this thought before somewhere, but recently I was wondering if 'the children' who get lost isn't (also?) referring to the main cast, as an event that hasn't happened yet

just kind of idly thinking about the way the prophecy is written. It's past-tense, but mixed up- maybe the panel and the organikk are both referring to just one singular moment, in the future?

anyway its just a small note, but it's got me thinking more on the tail. If the sentence is applicable to the main party (even if it's also applicable to whatever happened to Dess, just as some parallelism), they could be said to follow... the soul?

[rain lotus]

they were cooking i think

[ripe harbor]

I don't really have an angle or stand by any read, I've just been catching at the places the soul is equated with chains & pointy-spade shapes more

For tail of hell I pretty much just got "It kinda looks like a waveform" & "It's probably related to Jevil & Seam & Susie tail weirdness" & "It crawls (sorta snake-like)". It might be a dangly pointer, or all those beads linked together, maybe??

people just sort of stapled it onto the cat and ran with it

tbf, Demons & Cats & Susie having the weirdness with the tails does support that. But still...

Theres a weird relationship between -stuff and the soul already. I'm .

could be part of the stitching metaphor, too? A pointy bit & a thread that weaves in and out? With the bead set, that read makes it feel like 'following the pointed tail' is just following fate. Or at least something that is leading where fate goes. Sort of why I've been slapping the soul lightly against it like a peg-in-hole toy for like a week.

do they have tails in sewing? Sounds familiar.

fuuuuuck I should've said seams familiar. I'm washed.

[low surge]

Another interesting thing I saw someone suggest: what if FRIEND is afraid/extremely obedient to Noelle because of this?

Or possibly extremely attached to her because it’s the only egg she didn’t throw away

[strange cloud]

@ripe harbor true?

[scarlet wadi]

https://bsky.app/profile/chronocrump.bsky.social/post/3ml4o2s2wjk2g

⭐crumpy!⭐ (@chronocrump.bsky.social)

MANTLE (Famicom, 19XX)

Reposts

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Bluesky · May 5, 2026, 5:02 PM

[ripe harbor]

I think its a fun read. He does steal refurbish a trans-dude's ideal body

He does have the Mettaton dress he squirms away from, the connection to the ghosts (who have some gender stuff going on)

Addison concept art looked like this

The Addisons' designs were created in relation to Spamton. So in the end, the in game versions look even more similar than this concept art.

In the end they're all salesmen, but even then Spamton is a bit more aggressively 'macho'

his japanese personal pronoun (not his 'on-the-job' one) is Ore, lol

so theres still a bit of a him being the most overtly masculine of his type-of-darkner

[ripe harbor]

He does also crash out after he gains his ideal body & then realizes The Intrinsic Wrongness is actually still inside. And that it's blatant and inescapable and everyone could tell just by looking.
So fuck it, why the hell not. He can be a little transcoded as a treat.

[ripe harbor]

not sure if I buy that it's afraid/obdient to her here (though I'm interesting why they think that). but this is (imo) related to Spamton-Tenna's subplot

even beyond love in the romantic sense, Noelle is throwing away cats here out of fear about improper/wrong connections. Bonds that cause issues if made.

Might be applicable to Kris & their relationships in a few different ways

the weird route, obviously. Not just with Noelle, but also how she's isolated from Darkners she would've otherwise formed connections to. But also maybe the main route, and how they're caring for Susie more over time despite initially using her. That's a sort of love.

Maybe that they're connecting with Susie at all, if she's not "supposed" to be the second hero.

[ripe harbor]

this one might be the one I think is right though

the weird egg that never hatched, that she brushed and played with before it 'left home due to happiness'

Spamton's junk mail, the OddController wasn't wanted by anyone. It's garbage, you are "supposed" to throw it away

Noelle doesn't

Most of the appearances you have to go looking, it's something that appears off the beaten path (if you're searching for it, or anything unexpected?)

It interacts with people who want connection

Whether that's UNUSED in the dark calling out for help and hoping someone hears them, or Spamton making calls and looking for any trick to be successful

Noelle being the type of person to hunt for glitches? To read every spam-mail, and treat her fucked-up buggy pet as a normal cat?

Yeah

I'd buy that it shows up more around her because of that, or even that it 'likes' her more

She quietly stares out her bedroom window. She's looking for someone.

She's watching the static and listening to the dead air just in case...-! ||And also probably because she likes it.||

[ripe harbor]

combining these two interpretations does mean she might get 'punished' for it though

Wrong Bonds

Noelle is trying to prevent data corruption from unintended interaction between mods. also shows up with wave-interference and signal distortions.

It could very well be the "Incompatible pet"

In this case you could read it as "The danger of deviation from a programs intended functioning"

and everything would freeze...

[ripe harbor]

oh my fucking god. It makes scratching noises.

cats scratch, sure

so do records

It's noise. It's soundwave-interference. It makes scratching sounds, of course.

It's like when a song gets converted to discrete [samples], and then gets mixed up. It sounds like scratching.

https://tenor.com/view/ohhh-damn-bro-daamn-that-was-obvious-realising-gif-24880382

I mean, it's also a cat. And all of this might be completely off-base idk lmao.

[low surge]

Scout unironically have you considered doing a theory video or doc on all the sound wave and noise stuff because I don’t see anyone else doing it

[ripe harbor]

yes but then I got distracted a few times 💀

also my computer with the docs broke and I lost the progress I did make and never went back

whoops

Do people really not interpret it that way? I just kinda assumed it would be in the more theory-headed places. Like all of Chapter 4 is about sound.

[low surge]

I can’t say I’ve heard anyone else talk about this stuff

Maybe I’m not in the trenches enough

[ripe harbor]

It was really the Knight & the the Titan/Spawn that got me fully into it, tbh

very hard to ignore wave-motif there

adding that to the existing stuff about "the depths" and the Dark as water, or the song from the sea? Or how the Legend is nearly always equated to music?

I just slotted in sound right next to water as 'things the Dark is (kinda, sorta)'

plus I already thought Susie's rude buster was soundwaves

though it might be a [Guy really into Spamton]: "-& of course we all have thought about how his sampled audio directly relates to a desire to be 'real', because echoing someone else's words is just as much him being a puppet as any doll joints, where he creates nothing truly original."

I guess thinking about chopped up audio and mixing sound might not be what the average DR player does, lmao

"What's the Dark?" might be a good doc to make, covering the water-y bits and how it ties into the biblical motifs and then also the sound / waves?

[low surge]

Unused Ramb dialogue someone found

[ripe harbor]

connects nicely to

HAVE YOU BEEN WORKING OUT?

I GUESS YOU GREW UP.
WELL, STOP THAT.```
&
```KRIS? SOMEONE WAS LOOKING FOR YOU.
THOUGH, I DON'T REMEMBER WHO.
DID YOU TRY BEHIND THE TREE?```

(the first line is funny because it's penumbra)

Kris is a Big type kid, now. Of course they forgor 💀.

and the way Seam talks about how something could happen and you 'just haven't remembered, yet'

[ripe harbor]

"but... I still feel like an outsider- like I don't belong."
well yeah. Ramb, you belong Nowhere.

Its a very accepting place!

[rain lotus]

a big type shot

[ripe harbor]

a big type shot....

leaving the dark behind (literally or not) is getting 'Big'

it works for spamton & it works for growing up

[ripe harbor]

that being said since saying this each time I feed my actual-real-cat I see his tail makes this literal exact shape

so maybe it IS just the chud cat. and its ? tail

its just odd. This would be (unless the hidden angel prophecy is super weird) its big role in the prophecy, which is main-plot relevant.

that would be the closest Gaster gets to directly acknowledging what it is! & it basically doesn't clear up what 'taking crawl' or 'following it' would really mean

I don't think its supposed to make sense tbh, but I think its legitimately stranger than 'The ring of heaven's call'

[astral quiver]

unrelated. but that one video made me think
why is Toby Fox in the dark world

all of them

he must just be the demiurge right. Theres no explaining the annoying dog in any way other than that

[low surge]

Lightner from the prophecy

[desert raven]

He’s also in the Light World
Maybe the Dog is a Lightner?

[low surge]

Who do you think The Girl was supposed to be, huh?

[ripe harbor]

part of him never came back from the fever dream

[ripe harbor]

ok thats a funny timestamp

baiting

[low surge]

(@bugmael)

[wheat adder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1t5f2y1/the_theory/

[astral quiver]

[low surge]

berdly noelle AND carol trauma all in one

waiter waiter more please

[ripe harbor]

DEVICE_FAN

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1m1zkre/noelles_basement_has_the_same_noises_that_play/

fantastic deepcut

wait this link doesnt have the fan noise

I think it might actually be unused content, or a really well made bait that spread multiple places.

but there's a flag for the actual-fan in Noelle's house to play a really distorted Entry 17(?) when interacted with

[ripe harbor]

Egg-smog from an underground pipe
hometown gasleak theory?!?

[ripe harbor]

personally I think this one is intentional & because signal-ringing introduces errors

yuuuuup. ✅ thats ErrorDrink

also as a placeholder message?

It is known.

probably It related. Like the other It that does the smiling & the string-thing.

I am your adversary

https://youtu.be/9T6Yx8kcVcE&t=14

[manic parrot]

headcannon

https://tenor.com/view/juzo-inui-no-guns-life-carlyhu-saguskycord2-gif-21372754

[minor merlin]

I feel like almost every Deltarune theory strays closer to headcanon than theory

[manic parrot]

ideally a theory would have a successfully tested hypothesis or twp

[rain lotus]

[gaster voice] i do not know whether the box is canon or my deltarune until i look inside the box

"i'm soulbob!"

⬧︎♒︎◆︎⧫︎ ◆︎◻︎

[ripe harbor]

I have a bit of a gut-reaction against the word theory ngl

internet thumbnails have soured me. too many Proper Nouns going around.

You can say "Ok, heres my theory:" but the moment you start saying "[X] Theory" you are letting the devil in

gets a little too formalized. I want to see more wild takes by individual people who circled a bunch of shit that Doesnt Make Sense to them.

It doesn't need to be 100% correct to hook onto something, or at least be an interesting interpretation, imo

[ripe harbor]

I actually thought Greenster was taking the piss here but I think its also played straight now lmao

the name just sounds like a shitpost

[ripe harbor]

ofc that doesn't apply here. UNcritical support for Transfem Ralsei Theory & give it the Caps too

MY headcanon? If you asked Tenna his pronouns he'd tentatively say 'He/...They?' but he doesn't really understand it, he mostly wants to be supportive of Kris.

He thinks nonbinary people are like a third sort of gender between boy & girl, but in a woke grandpa way

he literally don't have internet

this is in contrast to Spamton who says shit he definitely can't reclaim but has a surprisingly robust understanding of LGBT issues

(He's pretty passionate about bodily autonomy)

[clear frost]

i wonder why

(she said, so painfully aware)

[ripe harbor]

There's actually some very minor cut lines from board 3 for Tenna that very minorly hook onto Kris' gender identity

kinda wish they were in the final, or that was more of a theme in Chapter 3. Seems interesting- Tenna "was there" as Kris figured themselves out that way (assuming they did because its more fun than 'UT humans are all nonbinary')

[astral quiver]

its kind on in the brand of UT/DR to not bring like explicit "KRIS MY CHILD I AM KNOWING YOU ARE NONBINARY"
its just known and people know this

[ripe harbor]

I mean there's not no gender stuff going on in chapter 3, its got some of the more explicitly nonbinary Darkners in the Shuttahs, MANCOUNTRY etc.

but just a line or two of that to Tenna I would've gone 👀 for. I'm curious, he's the Darkner who'd almost-know Kris' struggle with their identity in that regard more than anyone else.

If it's something they actually struggled with when younger, he would've seen it! That's kinda interesting imo.

and thats why I personally slap on "He's supportive (loves Kris) but Doesn't Really Get It (he's unc)" headcanon

If he's well meaning about it but makes Kris feel sorta-weird and alienated I think it's spiritually accurate

[low surge]

What do they say? I haven’t seen these

[low surge]

He’s trying his best okay

He don’t got internet

[ripe harbor]

Dialogue from Tenna for dying in the shootout game that appears in TV World, similar to when you die in any other minigame in a round of the game show. This suggests that the shootout game may have been part of a round or would have had Tenna involved in some way. The icons shown here are based on what sprite Tenna gets set to for each line during this scene.

very minor

could probably make a funny bit for trans ralsei out of this. Tenna going "I know what you are".

but even cut this is one of the closest the game gets to going "Kris is NONBINARY", lol

[low surge]

This definitively proves that Kris is not nonbinary but that their gender is actually cow

[ripe harbor]

the fact that Tenna is comfortable enough to make riffs on Kris gender identity is kinda interesting in-universe to me though

like this is an advanced joke from Tenna. this is "I'm calling you a Cow because I respect your pronouns & also we have fun here. we like to banter."

if he wasn't literally the Dreemurr TV + considered himself part of the family I would just go 'lol' and move on, but I like to think that he's got a level beyond the usual Darkners just automatically gendering Kris correctly don't-worry-about-it.

[ripe harbor]

https://www.tumblr.com/chronocrump/815532155277066240/i-dont-like-this-very-much-but-i-finished-it-so?source=share

crumpy's silly ass shenanigans

i don't like this very much but i finished it so here lol

-# #deltarune #utdr #kris dreemurr #susie deltarune #deltarune chapter 4 #comic

Tumblr · May 2, 2026, 8:01 PM

[ripe harbor]

@low surge @sharp lodge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gD04Hif4gc

we're so fucking back

https://tenor.com/view/spamton-kromer-deltarune-gif-23922848

we're SO fucking back!!!

[low surge]

Return of the Monarch!!!!!!!!

Holy shit

Something I never really thought: Queen-Berdly-Kris Triple Trucies perhaps is a reflection of Carol-Asgore-Kris plot

Carol is favorable to Kris because she knows they don’t get to have “opinions” due to their promise, Asgore is barely tolerated outside of his ability to be useful and is kept in the dark about what’s going on

🤔

Is there something here

[low surge]

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:mu6lpsqlp4l2wtz3yxmbx7oh/bafkreihnxbcsbibvk4teordfk7qdtxtumrh5bhbuybpy5mjsl5hkeaurdu

Honestly it’s compelling

Ramb I think is a lot more significant than we gave him credit for at first

Like I admit I took it on face value that he was unimportant but I’m certain now that whatever his deal is it matters a lot

[minor merlin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEaILaMBX2M

[restive comet]

Yooo

[manic parrot]

perhaps

[low surge]

How does HomerFan do it?

[minor merlin]

Do we know anything about Susie's home life

[sour mesa]

the implications aren't great

you don't try to eat chalk if you're getting enough at home, she's experienced with cleaning up blood stains, etc.

[low surge]

The revelation of how Dark Worlds work is also strongly implied to show Susie’s room, which is pretty barren

Consider also that she doesn’t bother to call home at the end of chapter 2, and that she’s pretty adamant on staying over at Kris’ until witnessing the befriending of their mother

[manic parrot]

the implications are that she is, at best, severely impoverished, and get worse from there

[low surge]

Nothing concrete is given, but yea exactly

[rain lotus]

she shares an anecdote about being told she's too susie to play a piano by a stranger as a kid and that's what you get

her response was smash the piano

so same like. troubled child boat as everyone else

[low surge]

Does Ralsei count if he was never a child

[rain lotus]

i was never a child you don't get to multiclass into troubled adult that easily

[desert raven]

There’s also her saying that people having an empty room is too sad in response to Ralsei’s room in CH4
And also her expressing disbelief at having her own room in CH2

[ripe harbor]

ooo I see it

I already saw the Carol-Queen -> Kris angle

but Asgore as Berdly...? Theres something there. thats funny.

[ripe harbor]

means all the protags share 'empty rooms' in common

which contrasts very heavily with the December Shrine the holidays have (and even Noelle's room being filled with trophies and memories ( ) and stuff)

[ripe harbor]

I was actually just thinking about this the other day when describing DR to someone who wanted to know the emotional thrust,

the Roaring Knight fight, the descriptions for when the characters go down

* Ralsei became a pile of fluff.
* Kris kneeled in silence.
they're written in a register that scans as like, talking about two things at once. Like it's speaking to something deeper about them, an observation about what they are / have suffered from or whatever

* Susie was hurt and beaten.

at least to me

I read it a little bit as something shes had happen to her before, and play it into her bad homelife

beaten is such a specific way to describe it, right?

It's not "Susie was knocked the fuck out", it's "Susie was Beaten". I just think that sentence might be true even outside the Knight fight.

In the same way Queen reflects Carol and some of her relationships, Susie does have some choice interactions with King.

[low surge]

I think Carol and Asgore can be seen as a more severe version of Queen and Berdly. Queen is regularly frustrated and annoyed with Berdly, but she has use for him and ultimately doesn’t actively wish harm on him. Compare that to Carol and Asgore, where the closest we’ve seen to an interaction between the two is Carol threatening to evict Asgore and berating him for giving flowers away. She seems to need Asgore for something and, according to Toriel, is enabling his bad habits. But she doesn’t really seem to be friends with him by any indication.

And I don’t think that letter was like super secret deep cover to obscure their plot, I think straight up Carol would throw him on the streets if she didn’t have a reason to keep him around.

Also it parallels (my personal belief) that Asgore isn’t fully in on the plot. Queen fed Berdly a specific line about her plan to get him to play along, i suspect something similar is the case with Asgore

Why I also believe he doesn’t know about Kris’ involvement

And that, if there is any sort of boss fight against him next chapter, it will not be of his free will

[ripe harbor]

this is also something Asgore-Spamton would have in common, with Carol-Queen. They're ofc already underlined as being similar in a couple ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUuqBoi4CHo

cool fully animated intro on this one

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/gato-anotado-noted-noted-gato-noted-cat-gif-15232071836705052766

[low surge]

To elaborate: at least in my opinion the only way I can see Asgore fighting Kris is if something is directly controlling him. I just can’t see the man who is so desperate to bring his family together and who clearly deeply loves Kris ever attempting to harm them. Like even if his life was on the line I couldn’t see it. Even in a “pushed past his limits” I couldn’t see it. Like I get I have nothing to really base this on, but Asgore fighting Kris seems too out of character for him. He’s not the same man driven by centuries of guilt and inaction as in Undertale. He’s made huge mistakes but there’s no indication he’s killed anyone or anything is truly that desperate he’d rip the family he’s trying to pull back together apart

My crackpot idea is it’s some FRIEND bullshit or something. I mean Chapter 2 did establish that Lightners can be controlled by Darkners against their will…

[ripe harbor]

that was sorta what I was thinking you were implying, hard to imagine anything else super relevant rn that would be controlling him

even a "flowey parallel Darkner" from the flowers would be Friend-adjacent

I could see it either way though

its hard to imagine Asgore fighting Kris, true, but I'm also not sure what his plans are once he actually opens a Dark World

and so what motivation he's gonna be working with

Fighting isn't nearly as lethal in DR as UT, so he doesn't need to want to kill or even hurt Kris to do it

but he would need a strong reason to fight anyway. idk.

[ripe harbor]

theres a video that's been floating around my recommended that seems to put this forward for Dess/The Roaring Knight, too

Its not something that completely doesnt fit, but hmmmm.....

[ripe harbor]

like if Ralsei or Susie want to fight Asgore, would Kris join in?

I think maybe. Its not just Kris in the party, and those two make their own decisions.

[low surge]

That is fair

I mean you can go the angle of hurting but not trying to kill

That to me just doesn’t really seem to be in this version of Asgore’s nature.

This is all just my personal take on it

Asgore isn’t some saintly goody goody perfect baby boy by any stretch

But I think it would be the one line he wouldn’t be willing to cross for his family back

Which could lead to something very unfortunate (for him)

[rain lotus]

kris the kind of they to beat their dad with a pinata bat and scream "WHERE'S THE CANDY!?"

they are itching for the opportunity. imo

[desert raven]

Maybe Asgore will fight when he learns about us?
Try and do an impromptu exorcism with fire and a trident?

[astral quiver]

Asgore is secret boss coded innit

generally like, scorned and left to the side by his community, once held high regard, also: he has a black shard

i think there will be an amount of effort to even fight him in the first place

(or not who knows. I just dont know if he would fight some kids even in a dark world)

[desert raven]

Not to mention the whole pink and yellow outfit he has going on, either

[astral quiver]

oh fuck truuue i didnt even think of that

[zenith iron]

he is, but notably, the prophecy panel depicting him is labeled in the game files the same way queen and tenna are, which suggests he's a main boss

but

given that the pattern for the shadow crystal bosses has been rapidly fraying - with chapters 3 and 4 both diverging from the initial apparent pattern - I could believe that he's going to end up being a "normal" boss who drops a shadow crystal to signal that sidequest to casual players, the same way MANTLE signals the weird route

after all, prophecy panel minutiae aside, he does have that black shard...

[low surge]

Yeah the prophecy panel does kinda throw a wrench into my theory (it’s not even a theory lol it’s entirely my headcanon)

[low surge]

(@467Doggo)

[rain lotus]

showed this to my partner and they said "why's he rizzing up seam" and i said "did you watch jojo" and they're the one that introduced me to it

[low surge]

If anything shouldn’t they be asking why there’s two Joseph Joestars?

[rain lotus]

eh sounds like a plot point i missed

i could believe it

[ripe harbor]

green man
suddenly reminded of Tenna calling him 'dice boy'. can he say that.

[low surge]

Battat is the subject of racial discrimination on a daily basis

Thing I Totally Didn’t Consider: if Queen is meant to parallel Carol, what is Carol isn’t aware of what she’s gotten herself into? If she’s involved in this Knight plot, thinking it could bring Dess back, but she actually has no idea it will cause the Roaring and she has no intention of causing it

And what if, like Queen, Carol isn’t even in direct contact or cooperation with the Knight?

[ripe harbor]

But then Who Could Possibly be setting up events in this way? Who else but Carol would be pulling the strings?

|| ||

[low surge]

It’s not perfect, but I really have to wonder what does Carol gain from bringing about the Roaring?

If we consider Queen parallels, she may have no idea that’s what’s happening

[ripe harbor]

just offered a possibility of getting her daughter back, yeah

hmmmmmm

A lot about how sinister Carol is changes depending on how knowingly she's leading the protags to their bad end

She's gotta know the DR prophecy is tragic, she's been part of the church before.

Though I'm not sure how much The Roaring™ is actually known about in the Light World's faith

but they do seem to be aware that the world will be seriously imperiled, that the heroes will need to 'save us (all)'

There is a distinction between the Roaring and what happens afterwards, the 'Worlds-Edge-Angels-Heaven' bit

maybe she wants the second

[low surge]

I think people tend to assume the Roaring Groupchat is definitively certain, and that all members of the conspiracy have equal knowledge of what is going on and awareness of each other

[ripe harbor]

ironically I think Kris might know the most

they're just also guilt-ridden enough to go for it

[ripe harbor]

or to use that egg-room bit that I like to quote all the time, she wants the finished sketch and is willing to risk the 'monochrome smear' of the Roaring to get it

So the Roaring could just be a fail-state. The SOUL loses connection, the world is covered in darkness, whatever.

[low surge]

Exactly exactly yea

[ripe harbor]

If she has faith in the prophecy, the world is saved

its just at the cost of a tragedy

[low surge]

Kris I think is the only one that has the full picture

[low surge]

Which I could absolutely see this being her line of thinking

If we assume her goal is getting Dess back, she’s assured that if the prophecy plays out the world is saved at the end. Any price in service of that is well worth paying

Which does kind of fly in the face of me saying “Does She Know?” but ignore that

[ripe harbor]

she might not know the specifics, tbh

misinterpreting what the prophecies lines would actually mean, especially since the Light World version is missing bits

She might '''know''' the ending tragedy, consider it a cost she's willing to pay- but only because she doesn't really know what'll happen.

like look at how the community argues about who's The Girl and if there is an 'original' prophecy, and thats with the DIRECT GASTER QUOTES just a bit out of context.

Is Noelle a part of the prophecy? Would Carol even know, if she was?

She might not be willing to risk her daughter, but she might not know that Noelle's going to be important to what goes down in the Roaring.

[low surge]

Right right

Me when I’m Toby Fox and I leave things unclear

[ripe harbor]

It'd be interesting if she doesn't expect anything too bad to happen to Kris

meanwhile Kris is like "My ass is going Nowhere."

[ripe harbor]

hard to determine...

if only I could SAVE the World using a 'certain' power

[ripe harbor]

I think Carol is supposed to be read as extremely coldhearted, and willing to use them

but that might just ultimately be a front. She might not actually be willing to have Kris die for their plan or w/e

it's just Kris might be

@low surge I think its reasonable to assume (if you think the voice-on-the-phone is more supernatural, so the Knight or Something Else instead of Carol) that it might also be in secret contact with other people involved, and might be saying different things to each

like the group chat is funny, and I like the jokes, but it might be closer to a bunch of DMs

and it has been noted that Asgore's been on his own a lot more, praying a lot more, talking to himself in empty rooms, etc.

Carol is distant from her own daughter, her co-workers are all scared of her. Her husbands in the hospital- she's also isolated.

They can all be contacted without anyone else around, like Kris in their room.

That might play into you suspecting Asgore might get possessed

[low surge]

Something I also think about: nobody but the Fun Gang (and maybe Jevil? I forget) has met the Knight

None of the 3 main bosses

Gerson only saw them fly by

Nobody really knows who or what the Knight is

And I wonder if that’s meant to be parallel on the Light World

Nobody has directly met the knight but they’ve been influenced by them

[ripe harbor]

Jevil might have, its unclear. He told King about them, but the timeline seems odd. He was locked away a long while before the Fountain opened up.

So it might be that he met them, or it might be that he knew about them like how he knows Queen

& her being the boss of the 2nd chapter

[ripe harbor]

and they all have their own ideas about what the Knight wants, and what type of person the Knight is

[ripe harbor]

the most interesting thing here for me is that this is Jevil's most important main-story beat, King wouldn't have Done All That if Jevil didn't know this information.

He's optional content now, by the main story, but he hugely impacted the non-optional bit.

and there aren't even any Prophecy Panels you can find for Chapter 1 besides the joke ones. Odd.

[low surge]

Projecting their own ideas on the Knight good catch good catch

[ripe harbor]

not too odd, nothing that "SOLVES DELTARUNE" or breaks open anything major, but its just enough space to question

Asgore is confirmed to be in the Prophecy more than King, so far. Unless you make assumptions about how much Ralsei knows.

And in the same chapter that King isn't mentioned in the prophecy at all, its offhandedly mentioned that his motivation springs from the side-character who went crazy speaking to some Mystery Figure. Is King downstream of this Mystery Figure too, then?

What would've happened in Chapter 1 if Jevil didn't meet the 'strange someone'?

Chapter 2 isn't reliant on Spamton nearly the same way.

[low surge]

Chapter 1 relevance never ever

I think King still may have ultimately come to resent the Lightners given the whole abandonment thing, but he wouldn’t have a lodestar to attach his whole ideology to like he has with the Knight

Possibly less cruel and vindictive

[ripe harbor]

it also might've been written more doylistly to confirm that King never met the Knight

it being the text in the prison about Jevil

for, idk, Knight-Identity-Discourse to be slightly less annoying. And it's not actually about Jevil & King at all.

[ripe harbor]

me walking into Card Kingdom to close the fountain when suddenly

pops up on screen

You know what we might actually get more Carol next newsletter

maybe it'll be Mother's Day themed?

Toriel and Carol?

some weird ominous hidden story about Carol being a good mother in the past. & then everyone goes ouuuughhhhh the tragedy of it all.

[low surge]

I would like this

[ripe harbor]

the fanart would be so angsty, it would be great

oh I got maybe one of the funniest messages I could've while answering a friend who hasn't played DR about some of the stuff going on in it

true.....

like damn yeah you Got It. That's true.

them going "Hmm wait a sec: What if these side elements could be applied to that December girl?!?"
I just think it's funny how they went the reverse to a lot of DR fans.

they don't even know the song name

[ripe harbor]

& yeah I'm pretty sure you got what I meant here but imo that applies to Dess as a person too

She can't speak for herself, and only exists in the bits that other people held onto. Our perspective on Dess is shaped by all that stuff too, we haven't met her.

"Dess is X", "Dess wants Y", "Dess would act like-"
we don't get to know

at least yet

[low surge]

Which makes me think in part maybe Dess will actually be in control and enjoying what she’s doing as the Knight

Or there’s potential there

The black sheep everyone had their own thoughts on but never considered her own

Maybe the girl everyone thinks is lost isn’t really

[ripe harbor]

that even applies to the communities perspective on Kris!

[low surge]

🙂‍↕️

[ripe harbor]

Who turned out to be opening the fountain for Chapter 3 because of a knowing commitment to a conspiracy that is betraying Susie!

'But Kris wouldn't betray Susie!' - did they tell you that?

Or are you thinking you know them just from the outside, and what you see?

(ofc they don't want to be betraying Susie either rn, they're just doing it anyway. Because Being Kris Dreemurr is Suffering.)

[ripe harbor]

or even like how Noelle in the weird route convinces herself that she enjoys it

"it wasn't her smile anymore"
It is.

She got stronger... isn't that good?

And the Knight is strong

* Since then, Noelle's always seemed so nervous around me...
* ... until today. She even complimented my outfit! I wonder what changed...?```

* And... she was muttering something like... "You don't scare me"...?

& if you get strong enough and good at violence enough, you'll never need to be afraid of anything ever again

The song associated with her is about facing fright with a raised weapon.

[ripe harbor]

anyway wishing Dess good luck with this. It ||definitely worked out very well for Spamton||.

||Who also definitely is in a better place during the weird route, crashing out about Kris calling for help, than he would be having formed a genuine connection with them instead of going all in on strength.||

Power is Freedom!

What's the Noelle response for the PuppetScarf, for those who abandon healing? 'Feels like Guitar strings...'?

interesting

this is reading a bit into Dess' character, lol, but mostly its about how the Roaring Knight is the most outright violent character in the story. Even completely stonewalling Susie's attempt to talk at all.

The don't communicate, and they hurt people. They are viscous when they hurt people.

Why are they like that?

[lusty cypress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg89Xt7l5WE

[ripe harbor]

huh, I didn't know Miss Mizzle had a line about your words being soggy with experience if you flirted with another Watercooler beforehand. & dripping like oil from your mouth.

putting that in the Experience/Dark/Memory pile.

honestly the weird "selling pool" Gerson has is the same for me

(It's a strange spring, with many chalices.)
(When coins are added, the liquid transforms...)

coins as in treasure / value, but there is no treasure. Only experience.

It's liquid from a spring that transforms with experience(s). Dark Fountains?

I've thought that since Chapter 4 I just don't know if it's ever been relevant.

[rain lotus]

is your speech soggy or dripping
"its a good word they"
look inside
soggy

[ripe harbor]

Woman Who Only Knows Water: "Getting a lot of water-vibes from this"

[ripe harbor]

I can't tell if this person is hopelessly sauce-lost or ascendant

[astral quiver]

is that the mario font

[ripe harbor]

I think so

[ripe harbor]

"The Big-R Roaring Knight, I'd say, without any evidence, is Dess' Dark World form left without her Light World self to stabilize it"

honestly that's awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONP0cEb88So

I love a nice 'without any evidence' and I'm being serious. "Yeah I don't got proof. 🤷‍♂️"

[rain barn]

always nice when someone admits "yeah this has no textual basis it just feels right to me"

[ripe harbor]

"But it sounds like it could work, right? It fits all these other bits?"

yeah. I mean I even agree in the sense of

[lusty cypress]

Photon readings negative (magnus archives)

It was shadow. Like, if darkness was somehow shining from behind it.

[ripe harbor]

if thats what the Roaring Knight was I'd buy it 100% instantly from the game's text saying that

I'd go "Ohhh that makes sense, yeah"

[minor merlin]

"Listen the vibes make it kinda work so you just gotta trust me on this"

[rain barn]

you could even fit it into the sound theming: it's an echo

[clear frost]

"it's what feels narratively satisfying to me"

[minor merlin]

This is the fundamental basis for like 70% of the theories I make for anything

[clear frost]

same here

[ripe harbor]

yeah and the dark worlds are mirrors. I've wondered personally about things like as being "our reflections".

Objects all have mirror-selves. People might.

[lusty cypress]

Never made the connection between deltarune and the darkness cult in tma

[ripe harbor]

I did but only because one of my friends got into posting about the Magnus Archives & I'm that one friend who's too Deltarune 😊

[minor merlin]

Ralsei will be transfem in chapter 5. Toby Fox told me this in a dream beyond dreams.

[ripe harbor]

"Manifestations: A creature within the dark"

and I go yuuuuuuup. Actually I know about one of those myself.

[clear frost]

did you meet him in the mansus?

[ripe harbor]

CultSim is also a great place to DR post

[clear frost]

damn right

[ripe harbor]

Secrets are soft; night is softer still; the sea speaks. It is not always wise to listen. [The nocturnal, the forgotten.]

[minor merlin]

I don't know that this is. Perhaps.

[clear frost]

well, it's not like you would have met him in the woods

[ripe harbor]

its the space above the Darkness-Below-Dreams, which is nowhere

which lies below,

where nothing is ever truly forgotten

[clear frost]

the woods exist beyond the walls of the mansus, which is the house-without-walls

[ripe harbor]

sometimes things slither back up. Don't worry about it.

I've looked at Gaster's whole deal as being similar to the tensions of Eternity & History in BoH

The way things get sort of unwritten, but traces remain, the way he's trying to create something

[lusty cypress]

BoH?

[ripe harbor]

mostly though its where some of the embodiments of the way things work chill

CultSim and BoH (Book of Hours, its a game where you play as an occult librarian) both have a core thing of their setting be that pretty much all natural laws, aren't. And they all have opinions and agendas.

Collectively they are the 'Hours'. There's 24+6 of them.

And a few more who haven't been born yet(?) but still sometimes do things(?)

[clear frost]

there's also the gods-from-nowhere but thats a whole different thing

[ripe harbor]

the 6 are also not- yeah

thats the extra 6

[clear frost]

there's only one who isnt born yet

[ripe harbor]

they're like 'not-real-hours'

[clear frost]

also hours have multiple origins.

gods-from-light, from-blood, from-flesh, from-stone, etc

[ripe harbor]

The artist knows: their every work could be improved. The artist understands: perfect work exists Nowhere. To go Nowhere - to go below the world - is not an easy journey. But there the artist could achieve their utmost. Nyctodromy is the way to perfection.

[clear frost]

and sometimes they overlap (looks at the thunderskin)

[ripe harbor]

I was using this one while talking about Dess Holiday the other day:

The Sea: whale-road, salt-realm, moon-way. Anything given to the waves may find another home - unless its home is the Sea. Nyctodromy shows us the way across the sea, and the way home.

'Nyctodromy' is this school of magical thought dealing with walking through Dreams / The Mansus.

this quote is about how learning the way of walking-in-dreams can allow you to travel 'the sea', and probably more importantly how to get home again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntHQOPH7CaU

which is usually pretty nice

definitely don't want to get lost in the waves

I think cross-rubbing works like this can be helpful. Lets you zero in on where they differ, and why, and the general vibe of it.

is TMA's The Dark a better fit for the Dark in Deltarune, or does ||The Eye|| work better? Or even ||The Lonely||?

If you had to give Gaster BoH/CultSim aspects, what would they be?

(||I'm going with Winter & Rose (powers count too) &.... Knock? the third one is a little harder. You'd have to decide which parts go to Gaster and which go to ||)

You could probably swing Heart actually

||For me, has gotta be Moon/Moth. Knock here if Gaster takes Heart, to fit with Keys & Serpents & calling.||

once pre-chapter 3 I got so bored while in transit without internet that I pulled out an actual pen & paper and made notes on "Which DR characters I would put on which Tarot Cards (DR themed)"

and pre-chapter 3 you start really stretching some of those character-associations.

I stand by Spamton Neo as The Chariot though. That's gas.

[ripe harbor]

and then Deltarune went and said "yeah the roller coaster carts are Chariots", too!

literally ahead of my time

[gilded canopy]

I'd argue that Gaster ||is not silent enough to be Winter. He is heard through glimpses, he does not take being vanished like a friend. He is not familiar with death but with something else, a different fate.||

||Winter as an aspect is interested in the corpse, the apparent death. It is the vivid silence of the world cloaked in snow. Longs of Winter aren't truly immortal, they just have an appointed time and date.

Gaster did not leave a corpse.

I would say he's more predominantly Knock. He cut open holes into the understanding of reality and fell into them. His presence "bleeds" into Undertale like a wound (which, when used to open, are also Knock).||

||Knock's principle is the Key, to open a door and let something through, in either direction. To a scientist, a mystery of reality is just a lock that needs…||

[gilded canopy]

||But I suspect Friend is also still Knock, even if Gaster also is. This is apparent in their narrative overlaps.||

[ripe harbor]

||see this is useful too because I don't actually have a very good grasp on Winter so now I can get a little better by seeing why it might not apply to Gaster||

[ripe harbor]

this was why I was initially angling that way, but I've done this for a few different games / series idly before (it's fun) and sometimes the aesthetics line up so that like 60% could be Lantern because 'light' and you gotta start bending it a little bit

so I wasn't sure if he's 'graded on a curve' Knock, since DR is so much about transgressing boundaries and uncovering mystery. Calling, too, where Knock is good for summons.

[ripe harbor]

though ||I was thinking of his 'corpse' as the sort of remnants you'd find scattered around. Remains that are less active, and more something you have to seek out, who disappear when disturbed back into nothing.||

fits more for UT than DR

he's a little chatty there

[gilded canopy]

Yeah, I say that because he's fairly foundational. He's a step above other characters in the strengths of his aspects.

[ripe harbor]

not much of a connection to the beautiful elements of Winter, except maaaybe if you really stretch The Legend (music) / Glass Panels

the Dark is usually not still

[gilded canopy]

Tbf ||after a re-read, Winter is also that which renews and may eventually return. Which, now that I think about it, might not sound like Gaster either.||

[ripe harbor]

Besides the pun, ||I was thinking of Heart in the way it links with preservation, especially in BoH where that's about the keeping of secrets / borders||

but that depends a bit on reading into Gaster's motivations, and what he wants

He's definitely a little obsessive

but I don't know if he's agentic enough for heart

more of an observer than someone leading the dance

[gilded canopy]

Yeah, to me, ||Gaster does not read as someone that keeps secrets. Especially through the Goners in UT, his secrets are not guarded, what remains of him and his secrets are available to be found, if you have the key (FUN value, datamining)||

[ripe harbor]

He even wants to be connected

[gilded canopy]

||In DT, he is forward and about as direct as a man with an incomprehensible obsession can be.||

[ripe harbor]

||This would be more about a read that Gaster has an interest against the story 'going off rails', and that some of the hidden content would be disruptive to that end. Even then though, he doesn't take active action to prevent it.||

[sage needle]

When I opened the chat I was not expecting Secret Histories Headcanons for the aspects of deltarune charcaters

[gilded canopy]

Once you play CS and BoH for long enough it rewires your brain

[sage needle]

Oh I understand

[ripe harbor]

I spent a bit pre-BoH on if Spamton was more Moth or more Forge

the answer, of course, was

Forge and Moth are less different than we think. Every change is in some way a release.

||Its Forge though, I think. The narrative arc is about a desire for ascending power over pure whimsy / passion.||

[sage needle]

I mean spamton is the most yearning MF in the digital world

[ripe harbor]

that's damn true

I think Moth often cares less about what that end goal is, so long as you're always chasing

while Forge wants to make/break something in particular

[gilded canopy]

Concept, consideration: Susie originally had the aspect of Grail, especially in the first chapter, but is now losing it by the end of chapter 4.

[ripe harbor]

He's trying to change in a way that leaves him better

Don't ask me about Grail, lol. Every time I go in that space I veer to Heart or Moth.

I do not know how to phrase what it's about or why it's different at all.

its like pleasure in the sensation? in the freshness and the consumption?

[ripe harbor]

also "interpretation of vaguely esoteric mystery-text" is a transferable skill

[gilded canopy]

Heart is subverted by Grail. But heart is movement, action, Grail is sensation, pleasure (of all kinds)

[sage needle]

It's all about desire bby

[ripe harbor]

but not whims, or yearning.... hmmmmmmm.....

idk if I 'get it'

[sage needle]

In a sense many of the aspects are about desire. That's why Grail is the first

[gilded canopy]

In earlier chapters, especially 1, Susie treats the dark world like a toy to be messed with. She's having fun, but destructively.

[sage needle]

Also the ambiguity of Grails desire focus being so similar to Moth is absolutely purposeful with their associated hours being born from potentially the same event

[gilded canopy]

It also represents her self destructive behavior, finding emotion and drive in pushing people away.

I would probably say her aspect by 4 is… Probably heart?

[ripe harbor]

"I just want to see the world burn"?

"Sounds kinda fun"?

I can see it

[gilded canopy]

Especially since I want to say Kris is Winter (ha, ha), and Heart subverts Winter.

[ripe harbor]

not necessarily a personal desire to cut bits the self away, but damn-the-consequences.

[gilded canopy]

More the former than the latter. Grail is also sacrifice of parts of the self. What stronger sacrifice did she hold than sacrifice opportunities for personal growth for short term feeling?

Ralsei, meanwhile, I say is the Power Sky, or at least he starts that way, he knows and presents the laws, he values harmony, but he also values the current order of things, that Darkners are servant to Lightners, he is beholden to the tyranny of the Prophecy.

[ripe harbor]

strong association with musical note order, as well

he's always singing

hits every note perfectly in his performance

[gilded canopy]

I had that in the back of my head but didn't call to mind enough evidence to say it

[ripe harbor]

I made a note of it esp because of how Susie gets the inverted association with playing music poorly, off-key, in error, and being bad at following notation

plus I just like THE LEGEND. It's nearly a titledrop.

[gilded canopy]

As well as the prophecy itself is associated with song, it is turned into a hymn, the Dark World Church, which holds it, is associated with the choir. So the prophecy itself is Sky.

[ripe harbor]

if you ask me, its the best answer to what the song from the sea is

[gilded canopy]

Whether or not Ralsei diverges and loses that aspect is up to him.

Meanwhile, Kris themself is Winter, perhaps not originally, but gained the aspect at some point before the story started. Not only for the immediate visuals of them walking like a corpse, their association with silence (though not totally), but also because something destroyed them, caused them to grow distant with others, and left Kris walking "dead", in the metaphorical sense.

The Soul is also Heart, of course (ha, ha). You are action, drive, but you also are a needed force for the plan, Heart also represents healing, and you "bring life" to their body.

[sage needle]

Kris literally has a visitor in them like Spencer in BoH lol

[gilded canopy]

Well, corpses attract worms. The Soul does not seem particularly worm-y, though.

[low surge]

(@TheGuyestLame and @day_cure)

[ripe harbor]

yeah theres something else that slithers up from Nowhere I think

but it does have a strange connection to the Soul

[ripe harbor]

sent me into a coughing fit

[low surge]

I keep watching it lmaoooo

[low surge]

My major problem with this is that there’s zero indication from TV World that anyone knew Ralsei prior to the events of Chapter 3

[strange cloud]

Also like, that same scene includes playing cards and a laptop

I don’t think the hallway meant anything

[low surge]

Yeah, just a backdrop

[strange cloud]

Beyond them being in the dreemur house when Ralsei told the story

[low surge]

It needed to take place somewhere

I’m still largely on the “Ralsei is a unique Darkener” train

That he can’t just be an item

[strange cloud]

Ralsei is

[low surge]

Yea

[strange cloud]

I think what Ralsei really is just one of those mysteries that like, idk

And I can’t think of anything I’m particularly convinced of

So for now, I’ll just say he’s something and move on

[low surge]

Yea

I don’t have any solid bets but something like an imaginary friend or Dreemursona is like the closest I’ll hazard to a guess

[strange cloud]

Yah

Something related to Kris

That’s all I can really be sure of rn

[lusty cypress]

Ralsei being a religious book is one interpretation I at least find good
But also, he can be straight up a living story
A darkner who would just fade without fountains. Who can't be carried around or persist in the light world by default

Not until she self actualizes White Chain style abd can persist without aid of fountains

[ripe harbor]

wooooooowwwww 😆 what a completely trash take lmao smh. It's literally so obvious that Ralsei is clearly a

[lusty cypress]

Ralsei is a bomb

Explodes in a few days

[ripe harbor]

he would be a horse. in a more perfect world.

but we do not live in a perfect world....

[ripe harbor]

"A prince? Oh, no, that's a BOMB. From the BOMB fountain. It makes BOMBS."

[lusty cypress]

The only way to save all worlds is to throw bomb ralsei at noelle

No, it's to put in the optimal place to destroy hometown

[ripe harbor]

plush has been planted

[ripe harbor]

same but the book idea has grown on me. Even if no specific book seems likely.

[strange cloud]

He’s so clearly Kris’s old booger

[ripe harbor]

something about Ralsei as a work-detailing-the-prophecy could play nicely into the derivatives subtheme with the secret bosses

plus he even has his own version of the prophecy!

he calls it an 'abridged' version
alright I got it. Ralsei's the only copy of the homemade "Dragon Blazers Forever: The Anime (Abridged)" VHS that Dess and Asriel recorded themselves as a bit.

he doesn't know anybody because it was so ass they never showed anyone else

[ripe harbor]

& this is also why he's literally moe

[astral quiver]

ok
hows he in castle town
hows he in cyberworld

nobody in TV-world recognizes or even remembers his name (other than Tenna)

[ripe harbor]

tbf the first bit is a mystery no matter how you slice it

the only other Darkner(?) that's been shown to do something similar is ambiguously

[ripe harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR9-6myZ9cg

really cute artstyle

[ripe harbor]

book ralsei be like "Hold up: His writing is this 🔥?"

huh you know what

I think this panel might actually play into the "Hands as connection" and "The Knight as someone who is 'strong' because they don't form bonds / quick to use violence / like WR Noelle." reads I have

the sword is just outright blocking the hands here, neither of them are in a position to hold it, so you can read it instead as the sword separating them cleanly. Causing a disconnect.

maybe that's even why its extra-good against Dark-element enemies, effective on hands?

Should I be reading the Titan's wings not just as hand-like in the context of the prophecy panels, but hand-like in general?

https://deltarune.wiki/images/Titan_battle_vulnerable.gif?cb=ky355i&h=thumb.php&f=Titan_battle_vulnerable.gif

Like its a bunch of hands hugging itself?

Kris does always reach out their hand to Save points, and the Titan's got one. hurm......

[rain barn]

clearly that's how it heals itself

built-in save point

[ripe harbor]

pretty ||handy||

Maybe hands could work in a shadow puppet sense, too

older side idea, but maybe I should slap it back in?? Shape of hands -> shape of shadows that appear, so the Dark is hands? Guy whos making the form is speaking in hands?

it's weird because Gaster himself doesn't really have much to do with hands in DR, seemingly, except maybe in the very abstract, but hands are still a thing

[low surge]

https://www.tumblr.com/9twoeight/791975226514751488/20250816-deltarune-fanart?source=share

september

20250816 deltarune fanart

-# #fanart #my art #deltarune #deltarune fanart #deltarune kris #deltarune noelle #kriselle

Tumblr · Aug 15, 2025, 7:33 PM

[gilded canopy]

-# Oh man it's time for my favorite show

[restive comet]

I thought Tenna talked to Ralsei like he knew them

[low surge]

I don’t recall anything like that. I mean he knows his name but that doesn’t give us much.

[ripe harbor]

not specifically any more than the other bosses know the main characters, tbh

& on a character level if Ralsei was around beforehand during the time Tenna's nostalgic for, I can't imagine he wouldn't bring it more directly. Like he does for December and Asriel.

though I don't know how it works, he could've still been an object around at the time and still not his own Darkner. Or at least I could believe it.

using the horns as an example, it's not like clothes generally turn into entire sentient people. Something like "At the time Kris considered this object just a direct outgrowth of themselves, so there was no distinction between the two -> Something changed, and it didn't fit their self perception anymore (and so formed its own)"

not that I believe that

[ripe harbor]

ralsei's weird. he's odd.

He's the Prince of Darkness, born from the Special Super Deepest Fountain, & also he looks like Kris' family members. And nobody knows him at all.

"Who made the Pure Fountain?" would probably be important

depending on if its more mundane (Kris? December (normal mode)? Fuckin', Catti?!?) or more magic ( , The Knight, "Nothing it's head Darkness just Did That") points in real different directions for whats the deal with Castle Town.

[ripe harbor]

fucked up & evil btw

[wheat adder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1takcfv/sebastian_wolff_just_retweeted_this/

Deltarune tomorrow?

Gonna huff copium until proven otherwise

[astral quiver]

if we assume the dates match up it would be in 11 tomorrows

[rain lotus]

just retweeting this post every day for like months to be a troll

[astral quiver]

itll prolly be released in like July

[lusty cypress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUuqBoi4CHo

[ripe harbor]

would be a really funny drop given the 'not the first half of the year'

just right after that. immediate.

[ripe harbor]

Deltarune fandom be like: "No Cats in the Meat Factory!"

[ripe harbor]

Kris & the Soul

[restive comet]

https://youtu.be/mM7b92TBoEo?si=XAxYONmd5JeCGIGW

This goes really damn hard

[desert raven]

It’s a really good-looking mod
Also that final attack is absolutely beautiful

And it looks pretty fair to boot!

[ripe harbor]

little intro here is so good

[low surge]

(@krachail)

[inland hare]

We love a trans inclusive abusive parent

checks note

No wait we don’t

[gilded canopy]

"this ain't a singular hurdle to clear, you gotta do the whole track"

[manic parrot]

no points for partial credit i'm afraid

[restive comet]

Damn, wish my mom was like that

[amber jolt]

whuh

[restive comet]

Joke is that she's absolutely not trans inclusive

[ripe harbor]

rip

[amber jolt]

😔

[lusty cypress]

Oof sorry to hear that

Kris as someone aligned with the stranger and the web in nagnus archives

[ripe harbor]

https://www.tumblr.com/infizero/815188807052820480?source=share

bold new take coming to the deltarune theory scene

-# #infizero.txt #tomodachiing #1k #edit: i feel like people are misinterpreting this post lol #the question wasnt about being a girl it was about being The Girl TM from The Prophecy #which is why i said it was a crazy new take. transfem berdly is not a crazy new take but that wasnt what this was about

Tumblr · Apr 29, 2026, 1:03 AM

[ripe harbor]

Is there a fear-of-self?

My Kris read has that as one of the big underlying elements ngl

Like they definitely don't like being controlled, but I think they don't really like being 'themselves' either, and those are in tension

[astral quiver]

ragebaiting my Kris to see what it does

[lusty cypress]

Stranger conceals, the eye watches
Stranger does a lot of stuff with artificial people

[lusty cypress]

Hmmm

[ripe harbor]

t. Tenna

[lusty cypress]

Here's a list
https://the-magnus-archives.fandom.com/wiki/The_Entities

[ripe harbor]

basically as long as its sort of an uncomfort thats skin-deep instead of just external. The worry that they aren't good, that they can never make it up, that the world would be better off without them, etc.

I think they see themselves as a sort of net-negative

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-roaring-knight-deltarune-knight-true-truth-nuke-gif-18290682922439833523

[lusty cypress]

Ah, perhaps the corruption
Toxicity, rot

Including being metaphorically toxic

[ripe harbor]

they also fear going 'Nowhere' imo, just by how it crops up in choices with Gerson. Or the 'Used Up' -> "You don't think you can change anything, do you..?"

Fear of no-right-choices

[lusty cypress]

The end is an existential fear of death and ending, runningout of time

[ripe harbor]

I think Web still works

not just for the Soul, but the whole thing

[lusty cypress]

Ah, the Lonely!

[ripe harbor]

that still a sort of being trapped

I wanted to say Lonely but it feels like cheating for DR, lol

[lusty cypress]

Fear of loneliness

[ripe harbor]

Maybe there's no one else there at all, maybe you just can't connect.

very thematically relevant

[lusty cypress]

There's dark too, for embracing ignorance

And fitting, as there's straight up places existing in the dark

[ripe harbor]

Fear of not mattering, or of being forgotten is obv also big

[lusty cypress]

There's eye, for a fear of self as fear of discovering the horrible aspects of yourself

[ripe harbor]

They also react pretty strongly to whenever Noelle implies (rightly or otherwise) that they weren't really that close, & were just forced by their parents to hang out / do things like ride a Ferris Wheel

I'll go with Lonely / Web, maybe. Stranger if it can apply to themselves (or maybe if you want to read into why they're affected by The Roaring Knight so strongly)

[lusty cypress]

On the fear of what they might do
There's slaughter, the fear of unexpected violence
There's desolation, the fear of cruel destruction, specially of those you love

[ripe harbor]

I was thinking of your position here and was wondering-

since Jevil seems much more likely to be a direct parallel to , nowadays (or at least The-Thing-Thats-In-The-Shelter, cause of the 3 keys doors and being locked away etc etc)

and it was stressed how Jevil was the one who pushed King into doing what he did... maybe something there?

[low surge]

👀

[ripe harbor]

wouldn't make a bet on it or anything, but if Asgore turns out to have been told information he wouldn't have known that led to him Doing All That

would be a King - Asgore parallel

and that could even be a good reason to introduce that detail in chapter 4 for King

because the payoff would be next chapter

Man I thought the "Possessed Asgore" stuff was all a big reach but I swear if he ends up having something like the Papyrus Pacifist moment

saying something about a "Friendly cat" who gave him that shard

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[low surge]

It’s a mega reach but there’s flowers in the garbage cans in the alleyway where a fake cat resides

And Everyman is painted on the wall

https://tenor.com/view/big-eyes-googly-eyes-looking-eyeballs-gif-12756102

[ripe harbor]

Jevil being a seeming direct parallel to also makes Seam more interesting because of the ways they outright evoke Gaster

not just in quotes, or in knowledge of the prophecy

but even how Gaster is said to have "Only one eye", now

because, imo, it means you might be able to read into Seam & Jevil's relationship for an idea of the shape of &

[ripe harbor]

and ofc Seam was always interesting. Tearing off my shirt to reveal one with I <3 SEAM!!! underneath.

but 👁️

[ripe harbor]

oh my god this could totally be retroactive foreshadowing, too. I see the vision.

[low surge]

Lock in

[ripe harbor]

Something it would be absurd to expect to lead to anything. but...

[low surge]

Get it twisted

[ripe harbor]

And he already loves praying while alone. And is like Spamton, and likes talking to himself in dark rooms.

He's cooked!

I honestly do like Jevil more now that I know his game

it's kind of sick to prewrite a mystery antag 8 years in advance.

I always liked his spooky arena tbf

The other interesting Jevil-detail with this lens is how based around Knives he is

because the smiling knife that's with the smiling-devil-with-the-tail, that's the Knight.

I wouldn't necessarily read any more into it, but if you wanted another Friend & Roaring Knight connection, that counts I think. I could see someone trying to support a 'puppeteered knight' idea with that.

I think it's more fun if the Knight has a character & makes fucked up decisions though. But I could see them as metaphorically wielded.