Undertale and Deltarune

[strange cloud]

I mean the thing is I don’t asgore is so far gone that he’ll literally think Ralsei is Asriel

[astral quiver]

me: person in the world most frequently called by my brothers name

[strange cloud]

I do however think he’s far enough gone that he’ll use him as a replacement son

[ripe harbor]

yeah more like, I could see him making assumptions about him or treating him as he would Asriel

[strange cloud]

One without the resentment Asriel likely has in him

Like a pre Dess disappearance Asriel

[ripe harbor]

which would be uncomfortable for everyone involved. #awesome

[astral quiver]

we love dark worlds slowly becoming less about adventures and more like seeing people do the most uncomfy shit they would never while in normal society

and that sais ALOT about Asgore

[ripe harbor]

they were always mirrors.

It's why I used to grumble about the reads that it's just truth vs. lies. They show you things from another angle.

Asgore is already jumping out of bushes and talking like he can 'get it all back' in normal society

his Dark World is just going to magnify that

[rain lotus]

he will teach him how to drive. i am calling it now

[ripe harbor]

I let Asgore do the 'talking'

https://tenor.com/view/asgore-twerk-gyatt-deltarune-gif-807170761291281030

[strange cloud]

And asgore, just be asgore

[rain lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-floor-driving-head-shake-no-gif-12555880

[strange cloud]

I feel like we will get a throwaway line from Toriel or something saying asgore has never been a good driver

[astral quiver]

same guy somehow:

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-asgore-nomercy-gif-4931669

[ripe harbor]

like some king of No-Mercy...

[astral quiver]

realizing the asgore DR and UT paralell of aura levels just hit me with the "wait maybe the adults WOULD aura farm on some teenagers"

and the Knight theories become more plausible for me

[rain lotus]

chekhov's truck

[desert raven]

“Kris, your dad hits like a truck!”

[strange cloud]

He can be a bum and have aura! Those are not mutually exclusive

[ripe harbor]

other AU thing I'd roll my eyes at was people interpreting this in like, a meta-powerscaling way about Asgore 'messing with the UI'

instead of like
He's suicidal enough that he doesn't think he deserves Mercy, and will not accept it.

the first can still be fun, but it would only be that. & the second (imo) is cooler.

themes and such

[astral quiver]

well the battle screen is canon to the world, so in a way he does will it into existance for this instance

[ripe harbor]

mhm

[astral quiver]

which i dont think should be counted in powerscaling but he is insane enough to do it at least once

[ripe harbor]

but I think its for the second reason, and not like an 'ability' of Asgore's he uses as a superpower

Not even in like a canon-focused way or anything, I just think treating it like a quantifiable ability instead of a representation of the story is missing the point

[astral quiver]

ive never thought about it in an inworld powerscaling way lmao

[ripe harbor]

well you didn't have half your UT experience be "Roblox Fighting Games" before finding the series probably lol

[astral quiver]

a veteran of fandom i see

[ripe harbor]

friends of friends, really. It's kinda funny.

they kinda vibed with UT in a background way, threw it into other stuff we did, but they've been pretty consistent about it for all the time I've known them.

Meanwhile I went from 'never played' to 'Knows the deep texts'. Now they treat me as the UTDR guy (very fair tbh)

One of them made me watch Glitchtale

there should be laws against that

[strange cloud]

I’m so sorry

[ripe harbor]

(heartbreaking: sometimes-annoying fandom people you know did have a point. That shit was as good as people said it was. Undertale. Not glitchtale.)

[rain lotus]

is that the one with the weird overbuilt sans fight thing

[strange cloud]

There’s a lot of things with overbuilt sans fights

But Glitchtale was an undertale fanfic series that was basically undertale if it was really bad shonen

[rain lotus]

thats fair i just have vague memories because it feels like forever ago

dude its been ten years it feels like ninety

[strange cloud]

2016 was lifetimes ago

[ripe harbor]

Bete Noir is still added to the roblox fighting games & rivals of aether mods. if that's any consolation.

thats where I first heard about her lmao

[strange cloud]

That makes sense

But yah Glitchtale was basically “what if undertale’s world started breaking down (or glitching) due to frisk resetting the timeline to many times”

It’s, really bad

Also made by a groomer

[ripe harbor]

(which does sorta fuck me up that this is sorta what Deltarune is implying about itself)

I didn't know that last bit, but not surprising I guess. Fandom popularity with a young fandom.

[strange cloud]

Oh, I misremembered

She basically defended her friend after they were outed as a predator

[strange cloud]

Are you a believer in Deltarune will become undertale or vice versa?

[astral quiver]

i think they are different

[ripe harbor]

uhhhhh 💻 🐒 probably not. I think they don't link together causally like that.

[strange cloud]

Ah okay

[ripe harbor]

but DR itself gives quite a few vague timeloop vibes

as well as with the trash stuff- like deleted things 'pile up' even after they are deleted

[astral quiver]

they inform each other and youd do good to have played one before the other. But its not necessary

you can be on the ground floor for gaster shit right from DR

[ripe harbor]

It feels like this is not the first time 'Deltarune' has been made, in universe, but it's also never completed.

so things like the weird route being possible feel almost like

stress from something recurring again and again with a fault

[strange cloud]

Hmm

Maybe

A “new” future does imply that but like

[ripe harbor]

its mostly just vibes and some of the imagery

[strange cloud]

If we’re diegetic

That means any previous loops didn’t have us

[ripe harbor]

like the trace from that egg room being "started over again"

[strange cloud]

And our very existence changes a lot

[ripe harbor]

I don't really have an answer for that, the soul is like the mystery that would put everything into place. Don't think we're supposed to know.

[sour mesa]

This would be a repeat of the case from Undertale

[strange cloud]

That’s fair yah

[ripe harbor]

It might also be less loops like "A->B->C" and more that there are echoes of the future / other versions of the story reaching the past

which tbh doesn't really have much of a distinction in the end

but Gaster and the prophecy already go back through time, there's already parallel saves where you can tell the 'same story' but in different ways.

[ripe harbor]

this is sort of what I read the very small changes between save files as setting up, too

things like Asriel having different things in his drawers, or the TV Dinners having different sides

'unimportant' changes, the story is still 'the same', but how big could a change be?

can enough small changes collect into derailing the story entirely? If you can change small bits and still be the same, at what point does a story (or an individual person) lose their identity?

stuff like that

[rain barn]

I'd also bring up the three different versions you see of the sanctuary despite it being the place so far most closely tied to the prophecy

[ripe harbor]

yeah, and the point of secret bosses as optional content & also in-universe not a part of the prophecy

Does it change the story to fight Jevil, or the Knight? Maybe...

[rain barn]

this is how Susie will learn the Maybe Sword

[ripe harbor]

"Who keeps spinning the Wheel around?"

actually, there's already a version of this in DR

once you beat Chapter 3 you can unlock the area where you get the extra key on further playthroughs

game design perspective, that's to make getting S-rank easier if you want it. If you wanted to do an in-universe read though...

the copy isn't exact. There is a small difference.

If you keep making copies, or keep making reflections that are just a little off- who knows?

But they'd build on each other, the signal might get drowned in the noise.

[rain barn]

keep playing deltarune until the story swallows you

[ripe harbor]

Keep making versions of Sanctuary, until the sound swallows everything

Actually Sanctuary also sort of explains how I see the time stuff, too. Both the 1st and the 2nd call the other one their ancestors, and I honestly believe both of them. They are both correct in their contexts.

[lusty cypress]

Also was cruel to fans I think

[strange cloud]

Ah yah

[rain barn]

I think one lens you could interpret it is the way derivative works of derivative works without grounding back in reality end up rapidly becoming noise repeating the same references

e.g. star wars was based on all these things, and now it's largely based on star wars

or alternatively, the experience of keeping a story in your head, rewriting it over and over and over with no way out

it doesn't stay the same story, does it?

[ripe harbor]

I've definitely pinned 'Derivatives' as one of the seeming core ideas of DR going forward

What's almost more interesting there is how the "new" elements are almost treated distrustfully by the game itself

[rain barn]

I'm sure it'll be integral to the narrative in the upcoming areas

[ripe harbor]

Is it better for the story to never change, or to change in unexpected (and unintended, or scary) ways?

And I don't think DR as a game really has a comfortable answer to that yet

it says "They both are kinda scary!"

It puts forward the Prophecy as an impending threat that causes angst and worry among the main cast, and then has the biggest implied deviation from the Prophecy (the weird route) not be comforting, or an easy solution

Susie doesn't immediately hate the prophecy, she sees it as inspiring that she has a place after all, and then later leans on it to gather her courage while facing the Titan. "You can't beat us, there's a lot of stuff we've gotta do we haven't done yet."

its an interesting way to talk about fate imo

Not as simple as just being bad

[rain barn]

I cannot die yet. The prophet has said.

[ripe harbor]

it has been really funny to be following both lmao

The truth is written in glass.

[rain barn]

for me I've also got ffxiv approaching similar narrative territory

Is lost in the flood
Here proud angels bathe in
Their wages of blood
At this, the world's end, do we cast off tomorrow```

[low surge]

Someone needs to save the girl ong

[rain barn]

I might as well post the whole song's lyrics you can basically read the entire thing from a deltarune lens https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/003243.html

Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge
A reflection in the glass
Recollections of our past
Swift as darkness, cold as ash
Far beyond this dream of paradise lost```

[lusty cypress]

https://www.tumblr.com/tennas-t-v-time/813840445007347712/toriel-has-family-photos-and-wonderful-memories

WRITER OF DARK FOUNTAIN WITHIN

🔁 tennas-t-v-time

asgore is the biggest victim of sunk cost fallacy. he is the most stubborn person alive he will kill himself to stick with a decision. when you guilt him enough in undertale and tell him you dont want to fight repeatedly instead of stopping he just lets you kill him faster. he would rather die than step back from a disgusting decision he made. anyways im really excited for chapter five of deltarune certainly he hasnt trapped himself in his own asylum he made for himself

tennas-t-v-time

Toriel has family photos and wonderful memories with her kids on the fridge. Asgore has a single photo of his wedding.

Last chapter ended on Toriel on a date with another man. Certainly the chapter with the fields of pink and gold wont be about a stubborn man trapped in asylum scorching them to the ground out of jealousy.

-# #PLEASE FUCKING PLEASE TOBY GIVE ME AN ASHFUR MOMENT FOR ASGORE AND MAKE HIM SUCK. MAKE HIM SUCK SO BAD

Tumblr · Apr 14, 2026, 3:52 AM

[low surge]

My goat needs a singular aura scene please jus let him pop out one time just once please

Him being washed is the appeal but also please let him stunt on the hoes

[astral quiver]

what if so far the main bosses of the dark world being kinda silly ended with Tenna and Asgore is deranged

[ripe harbor]

that's another angle I like to DR, where the same traits that are admirable (like stubbornness for Susie, or the people refusing to give up on Dess, or Spamton) are the same traits that you can be critical of (like Carol freezing her house in its place, or Tenna holding the gang hostage to try and force them to enjoy it, or Asgore coping that things can get better, or Spamton)

Susie says "I think stories having endings is dumb, and it's better if things go on forever" and Asgore says "I won't give up, no matter how long it takes"
and I'm not sure I can cleanly condemn one and not the other

[lusty cypress]

Please
Carol yoshihide
Gimme hell screen references

[ripe harbor]

moving on from the past is always a good thing, which is why you shouldn't try to Find Her...? that can't be right.

Stubbornly holding onto what's important to you is a good thing, which is why Asgore's not deluded? that can't be right either.

[rain barn]

biting my tongue before I get deep into FFXIV comparisons, since deltarune being an unfinished story makes it hard to say conclusively what it's ultimately trying to say with these elements to compare to what FFXIV says with them

so it'd be hard to get much deeper than "deltarune does this, and also ffxiv does this"

[ripe harbor]

The One-Eyed Old Person tricked the smiling-devil outside, below the world, and locked behind the door with a key-split-threeways. Yup ✅ makes sense to me.

The shelter... it's...
A place for people to survive an emergency, right?
But, ever since I've moved here, it's been... closed for some reason.

It makes me wonder if... even if there was some disaster...
Whatever's inside there...
Might be worse...?

Eheheheh. Of course, maybe that's just my paranoia speaking.

[ripe harbor]

A friend..? Could they have been called a friend...? Perhaps, perhaps not.

but they might be lonely, and free, and have a tail.

and locked up, for what? For games? The knife grows dull without play,

Ah, the terrible witches. They rang curses with bladed familiars...
They were sealed away, for being too fun. I mean, evil.

Good thing they are statues for all eternity.

and thats what you really want, yeah? Some real fun?

It's like pianos, they only let those of a certain type actually play. smh.

and no-one gets to choose who they are, in this world.

(||but some would say no one has to take being thrown away, either...||)

[low surge]

Was out doing errands and saw this

@ripe harbor

[inland hare]

Knife grows dull

This here is a knife that grows sharper as it cuts

[ripe harbor]

THEcat....

[lusty cypress]

https://elf-hollow.tumblr.com/post/813652006364463104/just-like-thinking-about-how-ralseis-entire

peace + love on catgirl earth

just like thinking about how ralsei's entire perception of the ribbons at the time you first equip one to him is that they're "for" The Girl, and his response to you equipping it is shock, and then shy acceptance and asking if kris thinks it suits him. yeah he's just really pleased to be thought of as someone who's allowed to wear Girl Things. for some reason

-# #transfem ralsei

Tumblr · Apr 12, 2026, 1:57 AM

[low surge]

Shogun blasting estrogen into my thighs has made Galsei’s strongest soldier she needs to start injections and prog like yesterday

[low surge]

Yea

[low surge]

We have an agenda to maintain

[astral quiver]

thats such a good Ralsei

[ripe harbor]

omg meeeeeee

For example, a digital image may include metadata that describes the size of the image, its color depth, resolution, when it was created, the shutter speed, and other data.
thats right 🙂‍↕️

Wonder if the 'bluest flower', that's 'shy to not camera' foreshadowed for Chapter 5 is blue because it's a Forget-Me-Not

[ripe harbor]

https://www.tumblr.com/blueskittlesart/786179149233635328/last-one-i-promise?source=share

CEO of Zelink

last one i promise

-# #^ lie. the game is too good im going to keep posting about it forever #deltarune #deltarune spoilers #anyway. shoutout project diva megamix #skribbles

▶ Play video

Tumblr · Jun 12, 2025, 8:07 PM

[ripe harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENxFHAImYk

[strange cloud]

WOOOOOOOOOO

STUFFED ALPACA SWEEEEEEEEEEE

[ripe harbor]

weird how she'd need 30 minutes to say "They're lowkey Evil!!!!!!" 🤔

||/s||

Kris probably betrays their friends because they HATE SUSIE and LOVE WATCHING RALSEI SUFFER etc

[strange cloud]

TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUE

[low surge]

FUUUUUccckkkkkk i need to find time to watchhh this

Can we get a HalfBreadChaos video next 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏

[sour mesa]

hmmmmmmmm

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-huh-m4rtin-huh-huh-meme-what-cat-gif-5834484041415217257

[sour mesa]

Zearth from Bokurano looks a little like the Knight maybe kinda sorta

does this mean anything? who can say

[low surge]

Bangin’ video

Alpaca does it again

Glad to have another person take a firm stance against “player is evil”/“soul has some ulterior motive”

Also the guilt and isolation stuff yeah spot on

God I can only imagine how terrible the reveal to Susie will be fuuuuuuuuuucckkkk

[low surge]

(@elbio_laculos33)

[lusty cypress]

Lmao

[low surge]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uxTb-npXuqY&pp=0gcJCdMKAYcqIYzv

I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I admit there are some interesting points/things not many people talk about

Why does Rudy act so weird if you bring Susie to meet him in chapter 4 if you hadn’t done it previously in chapter 2?

Like he’s still tired regardless, but he seems himself if introduced prior

And I do think people tend to kind of brush off the corkboard thing as just being Carol, but I mean it is his room too. I doubt she put it up in the handful of days he’s been in the hospital.

Maybe not being an active member of the conspiracy but he must be at least somewhat knowledgeable

[rain lotus]

i dunno but knight theories always feel like ppl trying to outsmart eachother. i think the knight'll be something that pisses everyone off tbh

[low surge]

And then yeah I never really put it together that if the black shard is the one item from the dark world to remain unchanging in the light world, what that means for the Knight in the LW

I always figured they would be transformed to their normal self, but if the shard stays the same I guess the Knight would too

[low surge]

I’m still firmly in DessKnight camp, for various reasons it seems the most likely scenario by a wide margin. It’ll be one of those things that people build up their own theories so much that they supplant any other outcome with it and then get mad when it doesn’t happen

cough cough woodytheory cough cough

[rain lotus]

oh i meant the knight will be woody

everyone will be pissed

you thought this knight stuff was building up to saying something? no, woody

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-plue-friend-inside-me-steve-gaster-gif-15019615222994035890

[rain lotus]

no pain. no grief. no sorrow. just woody. everyone dissolves into Woody. it's kinda like evangelion

[ripe harbor]

I consider it one of the reveals of the knight's fight, but it does only raise other, weirder questions

& yeah Rudy has some strangeness to him. The really cold reception he gives susie in 4 if you don't meet previously, the foreshadowing for chapter 3, the corkboard & ways his friends and family are tied into everything...

I think he's involved in some capacity. idk what it is.

hmm

they do also take Berdly there tbf

[strange cloud]

Yah the berdly hospital drop off seems way more likely for that

Especially since like, Noelle doesn’t actually know Kris visits the hospital until she sees them there in chapter 2

She’s shocked Kris is there at all

It’s not like she knows where they are all the time

[ripe harbor]

true

[strange cloud]

I’m ngl, I really don’t like Rudy knight

It feels very chapter 2 theory core and I mean that, completely derogatorily

It’s all taking singular lines of dialogue, stripping them of context, and then ignoring 99% of the game

[ripe harbor]

I still treat the Knight as Dess* with just a shrug and a space for "it's complicated"

[strange cloud]

Yah same

[ripe harbor]

there's enough thematic space around identity and shadows / reflections that even the idea of what it means to 'be Dess' is a little in question, and maybe the Knight will delve into that- idk.

[delicate cave]

Toriel is the knight (she used ventriloquism to stage a fake kidnapping of herself to throw off suspicion)

[strange cloud]

TRUUUUUE

[ripe harbor]

Toriel? Always asleep
Sleeping? You do it at night. QED.

[strange cloud]

Also just in general, the more I analyze and think about Deltarune’s thematics, the story it wants to tell, no one but Dess really makes sense as the knight for me anymore

[ripe harbor]

The thing for me is that the Kris Knighters were right about the TV being plugged in offscreen. So I'd be willing to consider some of the oddness around Rudy potential foreshadowing for him being 'in on it'

she's the one that goes the hardest I think

the story wants to talk about people who are discarded/discardable

which doesn't really apply to Rudy, but could to Dess

[strange cloud]

I mean maybe yah. I’m not discounting that he knows more then he lets on

I’m discounting the idea that he’s the knight

[strange cloud]

Also yah

[rain lotus]

wouldn't it be so zany and unexpected if papyrus was the knight. it'd be a genius use of the eleven years of buildup i think

[lusty cypress]

I read straight instead of "the knight", lmao

[strange cloud]

So much of the prophecy seems to be choosing 3 individuals which society deems as outcasts, and sending them to die

The knight, is just another tool of this prophecy

They have their own role to play and they will play it well

[ripe harbor]

Fate is approaching... and it is not on your side.

[strange cloud]

Wouldn’t a lost girl that all but a few have given up on ever seeing again function best to function as antagonists?

[low surge]

I don’t think I ever caught that

[strange cloud]

Someone who wouldn’t be mourned if they were to die, since they already have been?

[low surge]

That’s is… really fucking weird

[strange cloud]

See that’s true though

There is 0 chance rudy was not getting PLOWED by asgore in college

[ripe harbor]

Susie is also put forward as basically the character the traditional-rpg plot revolves around

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-liar-star-wars-lying-gif-8634649

[strange cloud]

No sorry it was a typo

I corrected it

[low surge]

[ripe harbor]

She's the one who grows between chapters, the one with the inspiring speeches, the one who stands across from the Knight and clashes with them

She's basically the main protag of the way the story is going (she doesn't know)

She's implied to parallel Dess

strongly implied, imo

[strange cloud]

From digboye

[low surge]

I guess everyone tends to exclude Rudy from the conspiracy stuff since he’s in the hospital, and he isn’t a fan of Carol’s behavior as of late. But the man has to know something IMO, too much going on around him

[low surge]

implying they wouldn’t be fujoshing out over it

[ripe harbor]

I think this was from peachducy

[lusty cypress]

Carol: big deal, I fucked toriel

[strange cloud]

Kris main character incoming in 1 chapter…

[ripe harbor]

is this why the Dark worlds have so much gay yearning drama in them

[lusty cypress]

Man silently fuming about conspiracies around him as he lays in the hospital

[low surge]

Granted I’m also a firm believer that Toriel, while not involved, absolutely knows a looooooot more than she lets on. I don’t really have a ton of evidence for this it’s just me doing the Charlie Day thing

[ripe harbor]

oh yeah to end the thought I think her having a parallel to the Knight as basically 'Susie Bad Ending' would work pretty well

[low surge]

I will die on the hill that the variable check that changes the deer in the Sword Route games being “Toriel” is Really Fucking Weird™ and wouldn’t be there unless Toby wanted it seen

And all the parental lock shit

And making Rudy shut up about the conspiracy stuff

[ripe harbor]

fun thing about the parental locks, there's three of them

meaning you need 3 keys / 3 codes

& then there's the Knight

[low surge]

Idk I just think Toriel being Toriel she’d absolutely hide things thinking she’s protecting Kris and not knowing they’re running around fist fighting elder gods and eating moss with the local ruffian youth

[low surge]

Yea Shelter parallels there

[ripe harbor]

lots of 3 key moments, honestly. Some of them might just be because 3's a good number for collectables in a game, but...

Shelter Codes, Jevil's shattered key, three checkmarks to find the path to the 'Roots' basement, Tenna needs 3 keys in his first board, 3 parental locks to the knight, 3 sheets for the piano 'keys' to fight Hammer of Justice...

not sure if all of those are intended. Jevil's feels like an easy lock, same with Gerson's

[ripe harbor]

they do stress she can't be allowed to wake up, which is interesting

[strange cloud]

HOMOSEXUAL

[ripe harbor]

"Don't forget the mistletoe, big guy!"

rudy likes his fruitcake dense

fruitcaked up

[lusty cypress]

Asriel and dess are actually cariel and asrudy kids

[strange cloud]

I would describe what I’m thinking about asgore right now but I don’t want a warning from the mods

[ripe harbor]

how do we feel about 'Chapter 5 Asgore Superhero theme' btw

[lusty cypress]

Boss both results of affairs

[strange cloud]

Possible but I feel like a Royal theme is to thematically dense to abandon

[ripe harbor]

mhm

Toriel is already a Queen

[strange cloud]

Especially since it’s likely gonna be Ralsei focused

And he’s a prince

So there’s still room for a king

Also he’s literally called the flower king in the prophecy if I remember

[ripe harbor]

'Flower Man', technically

his shop's name is Flower King though

so it'd probably be a 'Flower Kingdom'

It would be interesting it Asgore's self perception was more a 'hero' than a 'ruler' though

[ripe harbor]

this second one is about Santa btw. I just think that's funny. WHAT is bro talking about.

[lusty cypress]

Cain lord behavior

[strange cloud]

That’s fair but like, he’s still kinda seeing himself as a ruler you know?

Asgore is very wrapped up in the idea of himself as a patriarch you know?

That he’s doing all this for his family

To make them happy again

[ripe harbor]

but a king implies a sort of command, where he might feel like he's got a duty to his family

& he might've seen his job in the police the same way

[strange cloud]

That’s true yah

[rain lotus]

his cool superhero name will be King Dad (queen mother joke)

[ripe harbor]

idk how I'd blend royalty & field/flowers & superheroics as aesthetics, but toby might be able to do it. Asgore does talk about superheroes and have a closer connection to comics in DR than I'd expect.

[ripe harbor]

Asgore was kicked from the force because Carol is Homophobic theory:

[ripe harbor]

"Kris, look- I made a steak."

[rain lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/the-guy-spy-kids-spy-kids3-spy-kids-gameover-spy-kids3d-gif-20854189

asgore's suprehero moment:

[strange cloud]

I DONT GIVE A SHIT

[ripe harbor]

I'm losing it

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-gaster-doakes-dexter-delta-rune-gif-12495198102200177734

[strange cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/gaster-undertale-gif-10172525604851124628

[manic parrot]

https://tenor.com/view/gaster-deltarune-sillybilly-factcheck-fact-gif-14083819506073023548

[strange cloud]

From @ TheWitchOfArt

[low surge]

Yeah just go ahead and punch me in the face repeatedly why don’t you?

[lusty cypress]

We'll have to stop toriel from killing carol

[ripe harbor]

"Oh yeah she's not just propping up your husbands obsessions, but actively roping your child into a dangerous plot while keeping them isolated"

[minor merlin]

You can't do this to me rn man

[minor merlin]

I'm helping Toriel highkey

[ripe harbor]

Sword of Damocles

really it's toriel's expressions here that really fuck me up

they have another

[low surge]

“You can have a beautiful life even though terrible things have happened to you” don’t even joke lad

[minor merlin]

The therapist being faceless is neat. I like that they're constantly obscured.

[ripe harbor]

I think here it's ||also using the 'DR Gaster was a therapist' thing. Like he no longer exists, hence the stinger.||

[minor merlin]

Ohhhh like some of the stuff I've seen on the Forgotten Man

[rain barn]

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:ax6hputmta36njuh7fjaphcq/post/3mhe6bxydf22g
found some art seemingly made specifically for scout

Chubbi💕 (@chubbidust.bsky.social)

colored in with care
#deltarune #utdr

Reposts

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Likes

2366

Bluesky · Mar 18, 2026, 7:00 PM

-# it's like a month old so mea culpa if it already got posted here

[low surge]

I honestly really fw Vessel Kris

I think it’s especially interesting how perhaps Kris began their life as a vessel, was loved and cared for until they became something else, but since Dess disappeared they have been drifting back towards being one until eventually becoming host to us

All the things and people that colored Kris with love and care, and how by pushing it all away they are slowly returning to their original state

Susie please save Kris please draw on them with various colors of chalk

[crimson badger]

she was hungry 😔

[ripe harbor]

I think it (or whatever else happened in the bu- Shelter) also could be a strong reason for their apple motifs. In some way they've 'sinned'.

"You can never wash it all away" and all that

[low surge]

The grey from the pencil being a vessel thing too? No matter how hard they try, Kris feels like they don’t belong and can’t escape their nature (not as a human, but something else, something less than that)?

Goner/Vessel/Whatever is almost more a state than a type of being?

Is a copy really its own thing?

If Vessel = Goner = a copy

[minor merlin]

https://youtube.com/shorts/botXyQL9-rs

[ripe harbor]

mhm, thats one of the things that first started me considering this read

[ripe harbor]

Can a copy become 'original'? Or can a 'copy' become something 'new'?

[low surge]

Masterpiece

[ripe harbor]

Does a re-interpretation have value, if it's just something that's already been written / said before? Or is it just a pale imitation?

Is a photo really a memory, and is the thing you see in the mirror really 'you'?

idk

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-six-seven-67-cowboy-hat-mike-gif-8333600334029574425

[ripe harbor]

I also think its an angle that could fit into why Kris feels uncomfortable about human things, seemingly, yeah

There's the angst that the UI ignores them and considers them just a vessel, but I think it could enhance it if the game is 'correct'.

That they might know that they are 'supposed' to not have things like opinions, or a sense of self. Not just because of Gaster hating their ass or w/e, but by nature of what they are.

That they might not just not-belong in the town, or in their family, but in a metaphysical type way. Idk could be fun.

[sour mesa]

https://bsky.app/profile/skaspec.yuri.agency/post/3mjsbmfzmtc24

˖˚ʚわかɞ˚˖ (@skaspec.yuri.agency)

just finished making him and dressing him up and this is the first fucking thing he says to me

Reposts

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Likes

648

Bluesky · Apr 18, 2026, 8:27 PM

[ripe harbor]

thats him. thats the real one.

really good ralsei outfit

[lusty cypress]

"All the gifts your family and friends gave you, you drowned"

[rain lotus]

https://youtu.be/GFMPGrL7gTw

[lusty cypress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MkUul479hE

[ionic rapids]

I feel like I missed somehting

what

[ripe harbor]

wym

[low surge]

God thinking about Nowhere and “you were already headed that way” “it’s not a good idea to take someone nowhere” all that shit goooooooooooooooodddddd Kris you are so fucked my poor sweet little gremlin baby

[ripe harbor]

[Mumble]... no more characters... all gone...
What? You want to find them?
No, no, they already went nowhere...

you can also get this next one with Gerson

You're a good pal, ain't ya. Keepin' an eye on your friend. You helpin' her stay out of trouble?
( ❤️: Stay out of trouble)
Geheh. C'mon, no need to mumble.
She's trustin' you, alright? Just keep it in mind.

blows up

[low surge]

Toby when I fucking get you Toby

[low surge]

(@butterflyjam6)

[ripe harbor]

from

https://www.tumblr.com/krispdreemurr/814276019391528961/is-there-anyone-else-from-utdr-on-the-island?source=share

YOU WERE USED UP.

🔁 krispdreemurr

-# ↩ 👤

is there anyone else from utdr on the island?

-# ↪

rn it's just krusielle! i'm gonna be making more i'm sort of just slow burning introducing miis bc i wanna give all the existing ones time to know each other and shit and also i find the facepaint process vaguely draining bc im not actually good at art

krispdreemurr

added a couple more!...

Tumblr · Apr 18, 2026, 11:15 PM

Gaster on the island womp womp

she doesn't know

[low surge]

Someone gotta mod poly into the game stat

[low surge]

[ripe harbor]

scrolling that blog a little

this is still one of the funniest screenshots you can take of DR

the unique sprite lmao

Spamton Kris problematic friendship age gap (3 years)

younger than pizzapants

'guy who also believes MANTLE is the mirror' voice: thats right 🙂‍↕️

||which doesn't mean it's not also Something Else...||

[low surge]

At this point I’m not even convinced ERAM is an actual character

[ripe harbor]

I tend to use the name 'Shadow Mantle Speaker' when specifically talking about the character for the same reason- I never bought Eram as a name

some of the fanart of the invented character is cute though

[rain lotus]

i dont even know where like 3/4ths any of t his stuff comes from

[ripe harbor]

I'm much more interested in the implications of the thing speaking as

• not existing within the game (dialogue isn't written in ALL CAPS)
• having an existing idea of Kris (speaks like they know them)
• knowledge of whats going on (uses terms like 'Shadow Crystals', reflects the main plot, says 'We both have work to do')
  and
• will likely be seen again ('We both have work to do')

and also that it uhhhhhh....

(K... Kris!! I was so scared, I couldn't move!! Ramb was... Ramb was...!)

(... wait a second, that's funny. Kris... didn't you already go past?)

I'm not sure

[ripe harbor]

I think its odd how adamant some people are that the thing-that-looks-like-a-mantle, which flies into the place-you-get-the-shadow-mantle, and is named shadowmantle in the spritesheet

isn't the shadow mantle

but it is an outright mystery. Who or what is speaking is obscured, intentionally.

Contextually? ||Thats the fucking cat.||

[ripe harbor]

oh you said 'this stuff' not 'his stuff (Eram)'

[ripe harbor]

which also sort-of unfortunately means I mostly-believe in 'ERAM = ICE-E' by like. transitive property.

https://www.tumblr.com/reverssentiment/811105785976324096/so-we-should-all-like-be-nice-to-each-other?source=share

Noelle and Friends and Kris and Us

So we should all, like… be nice to each other, right?
That's, like, the main… thingy? Of our religion, right?
Like, just be nice to everyone! We're all family!
No matter what kinda person or who they are!
Like, we believe weird crap but we're totally, like, welcoming!
You don't know who's gonna grow up to be a hero, right?

This is a lovely thesis statement for a faith. It's also, let's be honest with ourselves, demonstrably untrue – or, at the very least, Hometown is falling down on the job of living up to these principles.

We _know_​ who's going to grow up to be a hero – who already is one, actually – and Susie hasn't exactly been welcomed in, has she? She's on the outside, looking in, at first.

1. TORIEL

_Undertale_​'s Toriel isn't the most complex mother figure in games, but neither is she the simplest. She's doting, even a little smothering, after a lifetime of traumatically losing her children; as upset as she is, she doesn't cry when she tries to fight you, but regards you with qui...

Tumblr · Mar 14, 2026, 11:25 PM

(Ignore that part that says "the exclusion of the poor and unwanted kids Darkness is natural and inevitable; sad at worst, but ultimately impossible to alter," that's like, standard boilerplate on these contracts. What do you mean, you don't have to take being thrown away? We gave you a moral lesson-dispensing servant; we dressed him up all cute and taught him it's his sacred duty to keep you entertained, even though he's just a scrap of shadow. Feel free to trash him whenever.)

this is unironically a major reason that if you ask me to name the most important element of the mystery stuff, the single bulletpoint about why the story would care to set it all up, why you should care about it at all?

A thematic element to link the main plot & the main trio & the secret-boss plot & the secondary characters?

I say "Susie is like The Cat: they are both trash."

that, imo, seems like it's it. And you can talk about filenames and gaster and CYMK and 'Airwaves' and music-motifs all day (and its fun 😌),

but if nothing else, this is the big pin I'm putting in. This is the central connecting bit.

She's the jrpg protag and she's unwanted-noise, she's the DR character who pushes the moment by moment plot along so strongly, with so much focus, because she's wrong-data. The game wants you to care about her (and like her! she's great!) & she's junk, too.

[ripe harbor]

^ see attached

and she DOESNT EVEN KNOW. its so fucked. she doesn't even know. she trusts them both.

[low surge]

Yeah the only reason I would really care for them is the fan art of silly little guy

[ripe harbor]

DR Fandom's repressed desire for a feminine secret boss (or at least most versions of it I've seen) manifesting as a Weird Thing. Honestly I respect it.

[low surge]

Unlike when cute girls are also weird little freaks it’s a favorite of mine

[ripe harbor]

Chapter 5 is the last chance(?) 🤞 I believe. Here's how weird-women sickos can still win:

[clear frost]

ok this actually has slight precedent but also no actually

assuming that spamton is spam email as a whole, he was born on may 3rd, 1978 (the date of the first spam email). assuming that the year deltarune takes place in is 20XX (so, 2020), this means that during the events of deltarune, he's 42. HOWEVER. in 1997, he would've been 19. buuuuut darkner age is weird (gestures to queen) so

man peaked at a very fucked time in his life

[low surge]

(@Vo1d_ZzZ)

Toby please give us more Berdly

[amber jolt]

his fucking. taped on glasses

[low surge]

I love that little detail, I’ve seen a few people do it

[lusty cypress]

Mirror?

[lusty cypress]

Huh? What weird thing?

[lusty cypress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOgnsJAEV7w

[low surge]

(@YourHostKaz)

[minor merlin]

[ripe harbor]

some fanart of 'Eram' is like

https://www.tumblr.com/daily-eram/814177997292765184/day-44-nothing-special-today-just-wanted-to-draw?source=share

daily eram

Day 44: nothing special today just wanted to draw it being so cutes

-# #deltarune #eram #eram deltarune #deltarune eram #shadow mantle holder #daily eram #look at that award losing smile ❤️💞

Tumblr · Apr 17, 2026, 9:17 PM

more detailed

I've seen quite a few people riff on the shape as a dress

https://www.tumblr.com/daily-eram/813095023939862528/i-have-seen-eramjane-mantle-as-a-magic-girl-so?source=share

yeah heres an example

I think the art can be cute! or cool!

even if I don't necessarily think the character exists in canon, lol.

[ripe harbor]

The mirror in the Dreemurr household

this thing

you've got the mirror references near the Mantle game ('Eram' as 'Nightmare' backwards, 'Encounter the reflection' achievement, it literally mirrors the main-game), you've got the "Standing in front of a glass screen" + "Floor is reddish eye-pattern"

[strange cloud]

He was just a boy… (50 year old man)

[ripe harbor]

The green room is pulling from the bedroom right nearby, same with the controller you find

I don't think it will ever matter again tbh, but I like the read. I can't really think of anything else in the Light World that would fit, if you were going to pick something. Also the whole idea of Kris confronting their reflection fits very well.

[ripe harbor]

ran into more 'Spamton is EVIL!!!' impassioned discourse looking at Eram art
these posters don't deserve Kris. Not sure they're even gonna be able to handle Dess, tbh.

Not sure DR fans can handle Toriel, lmao

[lusty cypress]

That's Necroko (magical girl venom)

[ripe harbor]

oh cool

[lusty cypress]

If you are running an mmo in a computer, connected to the internet, and create a dark fountain with players around, does it put them into the game as tehir avatars? Will it connect to the mmo at large?

[ripe harbor]

imo, probably not? Unless their game avatars were close enough to their self-identity-perception, I guess.

It'd still be based around the physical space itself, and the perspective of the person opening it. If it's like a LAN room, or a place used in the context of gaming, maybe. But I think it would be hard to force.

Both Kris & Susie's Dark Worlds had elements they (probably, for Kris) didn't want. Intrusive thoughts, worries, doubts, things you aren't aware of yourself- all that's going in.

[ripe harbor]

yeah, maybe

I think it would have a high likelihood to make things get fucked up, too. You're playing around with identity-mirror-reflections.

When Kris did that, they got MANTLE

Vibewise I feel like a ttrpg gaming space, or physical board games, would probably be a better way to bring avatars specifically to life.

[desert raven]

I wonder if avatars might end up more like costumes than actual Darkners?

[ripe harbor]

(and either way I don't think it would connect to the MMO, because there is no MMO or connection while the fountain is open.)

[ripe harbor]

Strong items aesthetically based on the characters, fitting the DW version of the person who made them would probably work, too.

You don't get your blorbo, but you get your BlorboBlade. Or your ShittoSash or something.

[low surge]

You know, I never considered any of that

[ripe harbor]

I like looking for the little details that get translated

like the special 'blessed' holy water in the church being Miss Mizzle, while the water pitchers & cups & bottles are the normal mizzles

I actually didn't notice the Green Room = Kris/Asriel room thing myself, it was just pointed out to me a long time ago

[low surge]

Yeah I didn’t pick up on that one immediately either

[ripe harbor]

green and blue-ish grey. Scratchier and dingy on Kris' side.

I see the vision

really minor detail from chapter 2 is actually the first bit where Dark Worlds are shown to have a two-way relationship with the Light World, and influence them in turn.

(Well, besides Berdly. But the first evidence that objects and stuff can be affected.)

Depending on if you encounter Spamton-Neo or not determines if one of the computers is open to emails, or blue-screened

much more obvious with Tenna & how wrecked the church is. But at the time I underlined it with a !! and a 'Holy shit, Gaster invented Reality Warping'

[sour mesa]

Chapter 1 has the toys thrown everywhere after you came out

[ripe harbor]

You never get to actually see the classroom beforehand though

[sour mesa]

but it's hard to prove that they weren't already

[ripe harbor]

mhm

[sour mesa]

yeah

[ripe harbor]

the computer changing was the first "Oh damn, this stuff doesn't just reflect, it changes"

It's just a computer, but it's just a computer for now

the church shows how quickly that escalates lmao

[ripe harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iF6CMg_Djc

sure, why not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbVO-8NmrpA

awesome

[rain lotus]

oh man i love lemon demon

[minor merlin]

cheap shot :(

[ripe harbor]

reminded & related to Nowhere, I've still got a bit of a pin in "Zero (Math Functions)" as being a possible explanation for whatever is going on with ROOTS

Root as "The input for a function that gives a return of 0"? 'Roots' collectively as 'Zeroes'?

so- as a place, Nowhere? maybe?

Hard to tell if any mathematical puns or similarities would be intended reads- more than even the computer ones, tbh. Except 'Digital Roots' I guess.

also a potential reason for the hands. Numbers as 'digits'.

[ripe harbor]

https://www.tumblr.com/okiejofi/812424504093638656?source=share

Im Tongue Tied And Trite Or I Aint Got The Wit

Green mould origin story

-# #darkners being influenced by their lightners #Kris just wanted to prank their brother and cheat at games #I find the whole Battat loaded die headcannon to be a fun one #it's loaded so that sometimes it'll land on other numbers too but its a one 60-70% of the time #Asriel never catches on he just thinks he's cursed or something #battat #green pippins #kris dreemurr #asriel dreemurr #dess holiday #deltarune #jofi draws

Tumblr · Mar 29, 2026, 12:46 PM

truke

[low surge]

Canon

[restive comet]

https://youtu.be/MHN-i301xZA?si=awsrvXwimUYfTbfJ

[lusty cypress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43piTAwBwLo

[ripe harbor]

the smile....

Despite the soundfiles name of smile, and the strong association the shelter's version has with the number 6, and the Mantle game's final confrontation taking place there, and Kris having seen the before from Noelle's blog, and the garbage noise of the phone using the same clip,

its impossible to know for sure what unseen character lurks within the Shelter's darkness.

|| ||

[low surge]

(@tac_bats) * None of these compare to her.

I love Krusie angst graaaaaaaaaaah

[low surge]

More @Vo1d_ZzZ stuff, this time an AU with extra Berdly suffering

[low surge]

(@euclicide)

[sour mesa]

https://bsky.app/profile/thesmolboi.bsky.social/post/3mk2wfyj5d225

𖤐 marblemelon 𖤐 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈 (@thesmolboi.bsky.social)

WHAT

Reposts

334

Likes

1001

Bluesky · Apr 22, 2026, 7:00 AM

[sour mesa]

https://bsky.app/profile/cavegift.bsky.social/post/3mk4t6chiz22j

laura [Hyperlink Blocked] cavegift (@cavegift.bsky.social)

the rawring knight x3

Bluesky · Apr 23, 2026, 1:08 AM

[restive comet]

She's talking to Spamton btw

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-james-doakes-erik-king-stare-staring-gif-1343162792415382650

[astral quiver]

i love time travel UT/DR posts
its a whole genre

[strange cloud]

From @ critval_189

[ripe harbor]

Kris & the Knight / Vessel staring at each other off screen in mutual ...

[ripe harbor]

https://www.tumblr.com/infizero/814829074418679808?source=share

this is genuinely a conversation they would have

-# #infizero.txt #tomodachiing

Tumblr · Apr 25, 2026, 1:46 AM

[astral quiver]

love that they gave Berdly the afro to make it seem like he has a grotesquely humongous brain

[ripe harbor]

The track name for Mother 3's ending when the Dark Dragon wakes up is "Phantasmagoric"?
kinda funny ngl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU7O6PLu5Nw

kind of a banger song

kind of a banger word, honestly

[lusty cypress]

https://www.tumblr.com/awwtgescrungly/814184152045846529/drops-this-at-your-doorstep-and-runs-away

[lusty cypress]

https://ammi-delta-document.tumblr.com/post/813083008376700928/this-one-sounds-a-bit-daring-but-what-if-ralsei

Ralsei's Delta Documentation

-# ↩ 👤

This one sound's a bit daring but what if Ralsei was kidnapped by flower Kingdom enemies because they needed a Princess

He's already been a butler held captive so a princess would balance the masculine and feminine within them if you get me

At first she's reluctant, but then a few days in the dark world later he gets accustomed to their nice attitude, however as soon as she does something "unprincessy" like eating too fast, wanting to wear something other than princess dresses and see his friends, the people who kidnapped him get angry as hell, courage perfectionist woman style, so they lock her up in her room, and instead of staying there waiting for his "hero" to arrive, she climbs down Rapunzel style and sneaks out wearing a Knight's outfit, kinda like Kris', also fitting his desire to be stronger.

And here goes my HC's favorite part, which happens at the end.

"Prince...Prirncess...Monarchy....maybe...this royal lifestyle isn't for me, I don't want to sound too selfish, but what if I w...

-# ↪

Tumblr · Apr 5, 2026, 7:13 PM

[ripe harbor]

I'm really interested to see how the positive part of Ralsei's character growth is going to interact with all the cloak-and-dagger stuff

people talk about Susie learning Kris' manipulations, but honestly I think Ralsei could be a source of conflict for pretty similar reasons.

Not learning anything, but deciding to actually do something about it.

And I kinda want to see the positive character moment of 'Making decisions for himself and making a stand' be something against the party, or Kris, or whatever. Seems dramatic.

Make decisions But Not Like That.

Be your own person. Except also go back to the person you were before you started having opinions & conflicting with me, specifically.

[rain lotus]

we had to kick ralsei out of the group when we heard his videogame opinions

[ripe harbor]

he prefers Catpetterz The RPG to Dragon Blazers 2

[ripe harbor]

https://umbralundertaler.tumblr.com/post/787751095491592192/i-opened-up-my-tomodachi-life-save-after-2-years

TENNA IS A WOMAN

I opened up my Tomodachi Life save after 2 years Saw this in the apartments Immediately turned it back off...

Tumblr · Jun 30, 2025, 4:33 AM

[ripe harbor]

https://www.tumblr.com/roachesinmyhair/814264038397739008

Moxie G.

-# #tomodachi life #deltarune

Tumblr · Apr 18, 2026, 8:05 PM

[clear frost]

fren

[ripe harbor]

give him a <DELTARUNE> too and its perfect

[clear frost]

i love how friend is associated with the roots and tail of hell thing despite there being zero connection

i love how people can make connections make sense when they arent there. genuinely incredible/pos

[lusty cypress]

Was blindsided by the blog title "tenna is a woman"

[low surge]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=5HGVfnadbkyVRXiV&v=w1z0DIXzF5E&feature=youtu.be

[ripe harbor]

not zero connection with Roots- the songs that play the most prominent times you see it are the ones with the 'Roots' in the name, but agreed on the tail lol

[lusty cypress]

Can't watch rn, explain

[ripe harbor]

Leaning into the morphability of the dark to say that Ralsei's similarities to the Dreemurrs is because he's adapting to the form of one, but would be able to be other things.

also puts forward some ideas like "This isn't the first Fun Gang" and "Asgore was a previous member of a party and speaks directly to the SOUL" and "The final prophecy is all heroes memories getting erased"

seems overall more about

• the prophecy has happened before
• the roles are extremely shiftable
• Ralsei was there most / all times, sometimes in different roles, which is why he knows the flow of it so well

[lusty cypress]

Ralsei: Ah shit, here we go again

[ripe harbor]

"But Ralsei isn't a Dreemurr, he's just taking the form of one" is kinda real though

I know, um... I look like a monster, but...
At the end of the day, I'm not... a Lightner.
I'm just a shadow. Like everything else.

So it's up to you... How you think of me.

Ralsei would agree with that one

I think this might be the first Fun Gang, but only because I'm suspicious of the word 'fun' 🙂‍↕️

[ripe harbor]

imo, the thing with the pointed tail being in the Roots-EggRoom is actually the strongest connection the cat has to it, because the overlap it has with those two is a bit easier to support

[strange cloud]

This channel is awesome because it’s not textual or thematic evidence based theories

It’s pure vibes

[ripe harbor]

his delivery is unironically good

I feel like if I was listening to this in the background and not the words I would start nodding along

[strange cloud]

Lol

Deltarune fans listening to the worst theory you’ve ever heard but the YouTuber has a nice sounding voice:

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-speed-nodding-ishowspeed-nodding-my-mom-kinda-homeless-gif-16401546600461596658

[low surge]

Haven’t watched it myself I’m just legally obligated to support any and all galsey theories

[strange cloud]

Unfortunately this doesn’t even seem like Galsey from what I’ve seen

The girl part is more, a metaphorical girl

Then Ralsei actually being trans

[low surge]

Oh I got excited for nothing the n

[strange cloud]

😔

r/nondessknightsquad

[ripe harbor]

https://www.tumblr.com/alexpixate/814688397878853632?source=share

ALEX

[ a place to belong ]

-# #deltarune #utdr #susie deltarune #pixel art #my art

Tumblr · Apr 23, 2026, 12:30 PM

[low surge]

(@kezsicle) In ch5 berdly starts taking estrogen

[clear frost]

i do genuinely think estrogen would...well ok it wouldnt fix her but it'd definitely make her tolerable to be around for extended periods of time

either that or make her worse

[strange cloud]

Trans girl berdly would definitely be a r/egg user but it’s one of those things you just have to accept she has to go through to better herself you know?

[ripe harbor]

she needs to play Umineko STAT

[inland hare]

What if fun is an acronym

[rain lotus]

ferdly uockington napstablook gang

[ripe harbor]

F is for friends do things together...

there's probably enough to make an argument that whatevers up with the fun, it's non-prophecy-aligned

The standout exception is the Fun gang. haha, unless....

I think about the Seam bit if you have no shadow crystals by chapter 4, talking about how it's more fun to not know the outcome. Their card games would be more fun if something unexpected could occur, it's directly oppositional.

Whole Mantle segment is Spooky Voice going Having Fun?

thats why you're looking for the Shadow Crystals, it claims. For fun.

Fun is off the beaten path, its not necessary for the plot. It's extra content & the shadow crystals. & the party is the Fun Gang.

[ripe harbor]

I think the ideas actually do resolve if you shake them up enough, and it's like ^ that.

Susie's fun. Susie is related to the other stuff that's fun. (worried)

[ripe harbor]

& ofc you can tie that read into Undertale's 'Fun Value'. It's the stuff that can shift seemingly-randomly, compared to the stuff that doesn't.

or I might just be saying shit I literally don't know

[manic parrot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUc_27yuZZI

[ripe harbor]

hey I was about to post this

wraow

I like the bit where they talk about the constant structure set up of Gaster's theme reflecting the repeated idea of reflections / copies

sort of like how Dark Sanctuary / Until Next Time is majorly just a part of 'The Legend' repeated

the OST really reflects the same things the text is saying

[manic parrot]

god, it's just so good

i wish i'd landed that job as his musical assistant

[ripe harbor]

would've been cool

I've gotten more into music actually looking at UTDR's soundtracks, and the way they're used as storytelling elements

"This track is cool, how does it pull it off?"

[ripe harbor]

One interesting thing about Dialtone, and how it's introduced here as 'Spamton's shop theme', is that it was made for the post-boss scene first, and then applied to the shop afterwards

which changes the tenor of it a little bit, imo?

Not really that much, but its one of those extremely distant sort of underlines I've got in the "So what's up with the cat" stuff. It's not the shop theme being played again, it was made for the basement- just like the Circus.

its like a very weak additional supporting argument that the 'Freedom Motif' is related to the Homophobia Devil

[manic parrot]

the what

[desert raven]

The pink and yellow smiling jerk

That isn’t spamton

It’s called Friend

[ripe harbor]

yeah

like so

and Darkners are devils / live in hell, so thats the second part

I'm not actually sure if it counts as a Darkner? Would Gaster?

It might be outside the usual categories, but it's close enough. Devil-esque.

weirdly, it isnt monochrome. Whatever that means?

[manic parrot]

i see
i knew about Friend, i just wasn't familiar with that particular nickname

[desert raven]

It also seems connected to the Tail of Hell/the pointed tail the children followed

And also is very very closely connected to Mike

[ripe harbor]

I'm not sure if it's actual name is friend, so I lean to the _ stuff it's got elsewhere. Which unfortunately makes it hard to refer to.

I think its fun to invent nicknames lmao

plays into the kayfabe

[ripe harbor]

at the very least, its got some connection to out-of-bounds content, and the secret bosses

strong association with signal distortion, wave interference, static, and junk data- noise.

because I got a friend getting more into the Jenna Moran ttrpgs recently, I've added 'The Glitch' to the nickname rotation. It's like a weekly moba roster.

[sour mesa]

hehehe

[ripe harbor]

honestly I think the tail of hell might be a wave-thing too, tbh

but I don't feel strongly about it

both 'Digital' & 'Bit' Roots deal with discretes, though. Fits with Spamton's whole [sampling] thing, to mix up a continuous signal you gotta make it discrete first? 🤷‍♂️

He's got like 3 direct quotes from other characters that imply he didn't used to do that, too, so it seems related to whatever or whoever Was Phone.

It/Its Cat that makes you binary

[ripe harbor]

honestly the λ is huge tech for talking about it

yeah its λ-real. Its a λ-cat.

she was definitely cooking with that

[ripe harbor]

part of this is, like, some of the real minor text around the Tasques

* Tasque cleans with a sawtooth tongue.
* Tasque wags its tail in a sine wave.

kinda weird they're waves, right?

Not really a usual association with computer programs, or cats. Might be more direct in Deltarune if the Wave-Cat in the Program is a thing.

Susie roared!! The enemies became TIRED.
Susie roared like a lion!
& the roaring too

which is elsewhere referred to as Hell's Roar, in the possessive. Like the tail..?

I'm willing to throw the waves in there too

minor details, you shouldn't get hung up on them. But when you got Airwaves right there, it's good supporting evidence.

[ripe harbor]

hurm.....

[desert raven]

Also, Susie’s tail has gotten a strange amount of emphasis

[ripe harbor]

imo, it (the cat) is Noise

[ripe harbor]

personally I think this is also part of the weird "Susie is actually parallel to the stuff in a lot of ways" thing

[desert raven]

This sort of staticy waveform noise shows up in the Titan, Titan Spawn, and Knight when damaged

[ripe harbor]

there was this whole bit with the Seam plushie about if it had a tail or not, about how maybe it doesn't matter, the tail could or could not have been, its more important what you imagine, etc.

just odd. It's the two cats, and Susie.

same with her constant references to trash, recycling, and garbage. Same with her cutscenes about being unwanted!

[desert raven]

Also, Susie has a pink and yellow color scheme in the Dark World

[ripe harbor]

the most important thing- yeah thats true, too

I think its the most important relevance friend has from a story perspective, it's like Susie. Somehow.

& that might be one of the big thematic elements that connects the main plot and the side stories together

the literal connections are the 6s and the Gaster & whatever. but it matters because Susie is also... trash? Garbage? Erroneous?

[ripe harbor]

a sharp distortion in the waveform?

sound?

[desert raven]

…..
Hang on a minute

GARBAGE NOISE!!!!

[ripe harbor]

it's noise! It's unwanted 'information'- you find it in the junk data.

Junk Data is synonymous with Garbage Noise

It's in the airwaves, it's

[desert raven]

Also, the heroes of the prophecy are all… outcasts?
Weirdos?

[ripe harbor]

well its probably Phone (spamton). It's maybe Phone (kris)?

[desert raven]

Susie especially, but Kris and Ralsei also aren’t “normal”
They don’t fit in

[ripe harbor]

They're all kinda 'disposable people', or something

people with empty rooms

who could disappear and everything could go on without them (or at least they all feel that way)

[desert raven]

And people like New Kris better than Old Kris
Or, more accurately, Fake Possessed Kris better than Real Kris

[ripe harbor]

And whos to say which Kris is real? Does anything beyond the perception of others matter?

Can a person still exist or be themselves, if they aren't seen at all? If Susie were to disappear tomorrow, and the town remembered her only as a mean bully girl, would that be all that remains?

[desert raven]

“When did you start being yourself”

Also, “Don’t Forget”
Don’t throw your memories away

[ripe harbor]

I think it's 'Bad Memory', too

in both senses

[desert raven]

And how you can’t throw away the Shadow Crystals

[ripe harbor]

It's name and information are junk because the data is corrupted, it didn't save right

[desert raven]

Egg is an error handler

[ripe harbor]

it is!

[desert raven]

Also, did you know that there is a way to view the description of the Quill Pen in the Light World?

[ripe harbor]

oh?

[desert raven]

Apparently if you don’t have the Black Shard equipped in a Dark World it stays as it’s own weapon in the Light World and not a part of the Junk Ball

[ripe harbor]

(& this is why 'Pipis' are called that (like UT 'Bepis'), and why Mr. Error-Guy shits them out, imo)

[desert raven]

Photo proof

Unfortunately it doesn’t say anything interesting, but…

This could be used in future chapters to look at the description for other weapons

[ripe harbor]

those are what the Winglades are, right?

[desert raven]

Yes

[ripe harbor]

its just so fucked up

the eggs multiply sometimes, because they copy. But mostly copies are one-color,

except, if you made a copy, and it had extra information you didn't intend (or it lost some of it's data over generations)

it would be 'New'..?

because signals getting reflected weirdly can introduce errors- attenuation, echoes, standing waves, ringing...

ringing, ringing, ringing...

the same thing repeated enough times, but it errs

(But, as they sketched, the line began to err, as if the pencil had lost its way.)
(So they started again, drawing over the lines they had already made.)
(Many times, they would suddenly halt, or the pencil drifted into a new drawing...)
(So, they started over, over, over again.)```
```(...)
(In the end, as a result of layering the sketches on top of each other...)
(... The surface of the canvas was nothing more than a monochrome smear.)
(...)
(Next, a tree was painted over it...)```

which goes back to eggs

https://deltarune.com/the_n3w3st_g1rl_g1rl/

and goes back to Susie

[This is a private post. Only friends can see this.]

and goes back to....

I don't know what it is. But there is a song playing from the sea, and there seems to be noise in the transmission.

[desert raven]

I don’t think that this worked right

[ripe harbor]

thats the tagline for all the dark background Deltarune pages

usually they have fucked up titles, too

'The_n3w3st_g1rl_g1rl'

its showing that Noelle made a private post

[desert raven]

It says
“
[This is a private post. Only friends can see this]
“

[ripe harbor]

but it specifies,

"Only friends can see this"

ya

[desert raven]

Oh right I forgot

[ripe harbor]

see this page

normal enough thing for a social media post

[desert raven]

Thanks

[ripe harbor]

but what is counted as a friend?

If something was a friend, or if something could be called a friend, would it have access, too?

[desert raven]

Maybe friendship is another running theme

“The bonds you break may make you stronger”
Recruits

[ripe harbor]

technically the full name of the Fun Gang is

"The Legendary Heroes: The Herald of Fun and Friendship"

[desert raven]

The song titled “Friendship”

Maybe it’s a theme
And IMAGE_FRIEND is referring to that theme

Instead of the other way around

[ripe harbor]

mhm

though I think its probably a bit of both, 'Image_friend' seems important enough in the mystery + arg stuff that its probably a big part of that theme

specifically probably the bond part. Connections you have with others or the world around you, as what defines you.

[desert raven]

In the Sweepstakes Audience Q&A, Spamton talks about Noelle always clicking on free friend finder programs

Or, well, possibly free friend findher programs

[ripe harbor]

He can't keep getting away with it

[desert raven]

It is corrupted

[ripe harbor]

Noelle herself (and her 'glitch hunting blog') actually describes the places you can see , like, 4-5 times

its the single most common thing she talks about on that blog

Noelle is the type of person to read all her spam emails, and look into static on the TV, and think the pizza box is winking at her. She's the type of person who looks.

That's the thing that finds you, sometimes, when you go looking.

no wonder it shows up so much around her!

No wonder she went looking for something deeper to Susie than what most people thought.

No wonder she thinks Pipis are kinda cute. I think these are all sorta the same character trait, or at least the same general point about Noelle.

She engages with things on their own terms. She's willing or wants to buy into the creepypasta enough to think her game might actually be haunted, and she still goes back to plug it back in.

[desert raven]

Noelle likes weird creepy things that don’t fit right with the world

[ripe harbor]

She's willing to interact with Wrong-Things

[desert raven]

Which, honestly, feels like it’s right at home with the whole Garbage theming

[ripe harbor]

OddController
A gamepad no one wanted to use. The buttons are an ugly pink and yellow.

stuff nobody wants

that doesn't belong anywhere. Or maybe, which belongs Nowhere?

Is that the same thing?

[desert raven]

It’s definitely similar

Also, all the Secret Bosses are things the world doesn’t have any use for anymore

And, honestly, so too are the chapter bosses

…
Except the Knight and the Titan

[ripe harbor]

King already had it but Tenna really made it a major theme

honestly, I think the Knight might fit

they 'dont belong' in the Light World

[desert raven]

Queen also fits this, with the internet outage

[ripe harbor]

if it's Dess, then she's also past-tense. She was thrown away in the sense the world moved on without her.

not everyone, but its hard to say the Holidays and Kris are dealing with it well

should they move on, and forget? Should Asgore?

[desert raven]

It feels like the world acts as though she should be like Gerson

Respected, but unequivocally dead

Not bound up in a conspiracy to bring her back from Gasterland

[ripe harbor]

Should she have to take being thrown away, though?

Maybe the game will come down on one side or the other, but imo thats the irony of having Susie say that right before the Knight shows up

[desert raven]

I don’t think she should, and the game doesn’t seem to be going that way

[ripe harbor]

'Nobody should take being thrown away' -> heres a character whos not taking it, in a way thats directly causing pain and harm

[desert raven]

All the chapter bosses have been, in some way, violently rejecting their “discarding”

…
This would fit Asgore, too

[ripe harbor]

Noelle's (hidden, unused) reaction to the Bowtie you get from Spamton is to think (...reminds me of.. Asgore..?) lol

https://www.tumblr.com/alexpixate/814688397878853632?source=share

ALEX

[ a place to belong ]

-# #deltarune #utdr #susie deltarune #pixel art #my art

Tumblr · Apr 23, 2026, 12:30 PM

its the unifying element!!

[desert raven]

It is definitely a very integral theme

[ripe harbor]

the real question it brings up for friend, and the way the game treats it so ominously, is ofc

"Does it 'have to take' being thrown away?"

if it is garbage, or unintended noise, or junk-data collected from restart after restart

if it 'should not' exist

[desert raven]

The important and also weird items can’t be thrown away either

The Egg and Shadow Crystals just… refuse?

Somehow?

[ripe harbor]

The Egg does the homestuck bit, right?

"What Egg?"

[desert raven]

Yeah, that

[ripe harbor]

I thought it left the inventory afterwards

maybe it doesn't, I've never thrown one away lol

[desert raven]

And then it is back in your inventory if you enter and exit the Dark World, IIRC

[ripe harbor]

interesting

[desert raven]

Have not checked this myself, so grain of salt

[ripe harbor]

if you try to throw away the 'BadMemory' item in UT, which you get from the enemies, the memoryheads

(which you have to listen to over the phone to hear, first)

it says 'but it came back'

[desert raven]

And the Shadow Crystal says “It would feel like throwing away someone’s ???”

[ripe harbor]

a play on trauma, definitely, but the enemies are also literally corrupted save data. They smell like batteries.

[desert raven]

You can only get rid of these by putting them somewhere they belong

[ripe harbor]

I think the duplication in Asgore's fridge for the Egg is literally a pokemon joke, too

it was a long-running rumor about the BadEgg error handlers that they'd duplicate in your box

[desert raven]

And fridges are like a high-tech version of iceboxes

[ripe harbor]

Noelle's 'Egg' only left due to happiness, too. Catti wouldn't leave (during the rain) until Noelle pet her, too.

[low surge]

Homerfan1738

[wheat adder]

pokes toby fox with a stick
Chapter 5 please…

[ripe harbor]

and also

Six and Sevennnnnn

[lusty cypress]

Deltarune chapter 7
Lancer calls ralsei toothpaste girl
Roll credits

[ripe harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-six-seven-67-cowboy-hat-mike-gif-8333600334029574425

[minor merlin]

Thinking of adding some Deltarune characters to the island

[minor merlin]

...my island in tomodachi life

Who should I add

[ripe harbor]

Lancer

[ionic rapids]

this is a tradition since undertale

it is venerable indeed

[lusty cypress]

Clover
Ralsei

[astral quiver]

W. D. Gaster

Susie Gaster

[ripe harbor]

Heats Flamesman

River-Person, and then just give them ominous quotes and tralalalas

Miss Mizzle

[low surge]

Tobias…

[ripe harbor]

nonbinary people fucking HATE tenna

[sour mesa]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-kris-true-fountain-gif-4422207220272663716

[ripe harbor]

really feeling the Yume Nikki in this one

also its cool it's got the Kanotynes art

nevermind. shut it down.

One might already be too much

[lusty cypress]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/SuddenlyPlural/comments/1ovda9u/litterally_me_to_my_wives/

[low surge]

Scout, post the :clue: emote

[desert raven]

I’m not sure if “Yea i'm tha sicko that looks at all the milks to find the best expiration date
You got something about it?” quite fits with this

But it could absolutely be something

[low surge]

Oh this is probably nonsense it’s jus funny and I like when Scout tries to make a shitpost into a serious theory

[desert raven]

It is funny

And it has brought me back to Jockington and that stupid bird

[rain lotus]

thats the milk freak speaking

why didn't you save them?

[low surge]

I love milk kid so much

Popped the fuck off when pronouns reveal for them during the anniversary stream

[astral quiver]

what are the milk freaks pronouns?

[rose swallow]

I would assume they/them

since that's what Robin just used

[low surge]

Toby used they/them in the stream so I take it as confirmation

My favorite background weirdo NPC

[white basalt]

"they them their pronouns
them pronouns (my pronouns)"

[strange cloud]

Just saw art of Kris and felt so much gender envy for them I couldn’t do anything but look for a bit

[ripe harbor]

|| ||
|| ||

[ripe harbor]

bird that keeps me from reading about the Soul >:(

[low surge]

Unironically a factor that played into my transition lmaooooo

[strange cloud]

real

[ripe harbor]

Their hair kinda goated

^ dess

[low surge]

Yeah idk how doable it would be with my hair but fuuuuck I really wanna try something like this somehow (idk the artist sorry this is on my phone from like a year and a half ago)

(@gimkkanu)

And then there’s shit like this I mean come on

[lusty cypress]

https://nekoglycerin.tumblr.com/post/812729316440948736/the-heroine-of-the-story-will-recover-your-hps

lol said the scorpion lmao

The Heroine of the story. Will recover your HPs when you ASK....

Tumblr · Apr 1, 2026, 9:31 PM

[low surge]

Oh my god I love this

Perfectly captures that old LoZ art style

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-XGl5532dQs&ra=m

Mr President a new Cammy video has hit the second dark fountain

[ripe harbor]

I didn't forget >:(

the world kinda did doe. his ass 'joined the fun'

[low surge]

I like the ego angle, Ramb being so self assured that Kris still loved him above everyone else

[ripe harbor]

Shop 3 mentioned in that video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv0GTtoS8CM

mmm waltzes

Ramb's not allowed to handle TV World's money ||because he's 'pointless', imo||

||He's literally pointless. He has no point & he has no points.||

[low surge]

I don’t know if I entirely agree with the video but it’s compelling at the very least

Ramb is incredibly weird

And idk if we’ve truly seen the last of him

[ripe harbor]

I'm still watching it so idk the conclusions

[ripe harbor]

might almost be worse if not

like December, lol

We might see him again & it might be hard to call what appears Ramb. Or we might hear Rambs voice from something that isn't(?) Ramb(?)

Personally, I think what happened to Ramb was what Spamton was afraid of

[low surge]

Like he said in the beginning no huge overarching conclusions his a few different theories and observations

[low surge]

Wdym

[ripe harbor]

idk. Spamton's not entirely clear, right.

One of the usually-interpreted lines from "Big Shot" involves the phrase '-coming for me' though

people who care usually hallucinate either "Think it's-" or (for the rebels) "Fingers-"

I don't really want either of those things coming for me, tbh.

I don't know what would happen if they did. But I think it happened to Ramb.

when it happens, it happens when you are "-all alone". Or maybe it can't be discussed where something might overhear.

either way: It pulls the strings and makes them ring.

I mean its not like Ramb could move himself by the end

An unwanted controller was left, and a poorly-fitted & pointless power strip was taken away

He didn't belong anywhere, anymore. Or, he belonged Nowhere.

To make an Undertale comparison, if we see Ramb again I think it might be like how you can meet Snowy's Mom in Undertale. Or all those dogs.

or maybe he was just used up!

[ripe harbor]

there is some weirdness here depending on what assumptions you make about 'Mike' though, idk

I trust characterization though. Spamton is afraid of something catching up to him, and while it's not revealed outright

BUT WHEN HE PICKED IT UP, HIS FACE TURNED PALE...
AND HE RAN RIGHT OUT OF THE ROOM WITH THE RECEIVER HANGING!```

the fear is underlined

afraid of a general fate? a specific antagonist? insecurity? a foretold doom? Not sure.

But an entity would fit. Regardless of any answer, It pulls the strings and makes them ring. The answer seems like it could be 'It', even if I don't know who that is

could be Gaster. He/It Gaster

could be whoever left the odd controller- the colors match.

Which doesn't mean its not Gaster, but... I have doubts.

I've never seen Gaster and the Shadow Mantle Holder in the same room at the same time before...

[desert raven]

Heck, “it” could even be Dess, with how the Puppet Scarf is described by Noelle as feeling like guitar strings, and playing a guitar involves plucking or otherwise disturbing the strings to make noise

[ripe harbor]

true, though there's already a few other ??? actors in Spamton's whole deal

There's not really a reason to assume whoever 'found him' on the phone is "It", but it feels right narratively. Might be hard to distinguish which shadowy figure is which, otherwise.

Nobody in Cyberworld seemed to know Who Was Phone- and nobody in TV World did, either. And there haven't been many direct clues to who 'It' would be, either.

[desert raven]

Apparently, according to Tenna, Mike didn’t want the contract thing to go through
So it’s probably at least somewhat related to Mike

[ripe harbor]

"I'm WingDing! "
"(I'm The Roarin- December Holiday!)"
""

THE AMBIGUOUS INFLUENCE SIBLINGS

[desert raven]

And has some relation to “garbage noise”, which we know from the Addisons after Spamton Neo’s bossfight

[ripe harbor]

luckily Gaster has his Homestuck Typing Quirk*

(*probably. I mean, it could be someone else but cmon. That's at least Gaster's Voice.)

I think regardless of anything else, the thing speaking from Mantle was 'It'

or at least the primary suspect

[desert raven]

I assume you mean ERAM?

[ripe harbor]

sure

the name matters less to me than the subject

[desert raven]

The spooky bastard we fight in the video game shelter, yeah

[desert raven]

I could see it
It’s definitely spooky enough and linked to the Shelter

[ripe harbor]

I think It left the Odd Controller for you to use

I think It took Ramb

It probably does live in the shelter, if It can be said to live.

I know It Smiled. And I know It pulls the strings, and makes them ring.

which is to say that it manipulates, and it calls phones.

Seam suspects the Shadow Mantle was taken by someone- something?

I think It took it. Because It definitely seems to leave it for you.

[ripe harbor]

which might be: Nobody lives in the shelter. Nobody took the shadow mantle.

[desert raven]

It is definitely very very suspicious, but I worry about maybe attributing too many things to one entity

[ripe harbor]

And if you call out generally, Nobody will come.

[desert raven]

Although the Mantle is probably alive?

[ripe harbor]

lowkey me about Gaster after chapter 2.

[desert raven]

The Mantle Boss is just called the shadow mantle in the files, and it looks like King was wearing it in CH1

[ripe harbor]

My serious position was "The Garbage Noise is related to Gaster, for sure, and Toby Fox knows that people are going to think it's Gaster, so while it's not confirmed: You can treat it as Gaster."

the motive always tripped me. It didn't feel like a Gaster thing to do, but I didn't have any better answer.

[ripe harbor]

be weird for Seam to act like it was stolen long after King was already in jail though, the dialogue is written like Seam expects it there currently

[desert raven]

Seems like a good position to take
Gaster doesn’t seem to have any knowable motives other than maybe completing deltarune?

And Seam’s dialogue is definitely weird

[ripe harbor]

not impossible logically, storytelling seems a bit off. There's no evidence King specifically would've taken it, nor any reason to believe it happened before Chapter 1

but, at the same time

[desert raven]

I could maybe see it if he didn’t notice that it was gone before the King took it but that’s a long time for something to be gone without noticing

[ripe harbor]

Ramb says there wasn't anyone back there with you, after Kris unprompted asks if anyone else went in.

And there was a conspicuous controller on the ground.

[desert raven]

Wonder if Kris saw something out of the corner of their eye

[ripe harbor]

If you think that controller was left with intent, whoever did it was stealthy for sure.

[desert raven]

You know, you can’t even walk past the controller on the ground without picking it up

[ripe harbor]

to the point where even the UI

is confused

Seam, who knows the prophecy well enough to know you'll be meeting the Knight in Chapter 3, and Gerson in Chapter 4,

has no idea who took it

or how you got it back

these events are obscured, somehow. They weren't foreseen, or they cant be seen

or it can't be remembered, at least.

[desert raven]

The UI does the same thing in the circle room with the hidden tree switch in CH1
And also, how did the Mantle get from Card Kingdom/Castle Town to TV World?

[ripe harbor]

perhaps It is something that can travel between Dark Worlds. Or, at least, can appear in multiple.

[desert raven]

It’s definitely something that is “interfering”, in the sense that nobody seems to be accounting for it

[ripe harbor]

Signal Noise

[desert raven]

…Which is somewhat similar to the Weird Route.
Something that was never supposed to happen that doesn’t change much but also can completely knock everything off course

[ripe harbor]

Pink and Yellow, Ringing

how odd. how weird.

how strangely familiar

[desert raven]

It’s Asriel’s controller…
That and all the strange Asriel references seem very important

The Mantle boss having fire magic, Asriel’s mouth and horns

“And so wept the fallen star”

[ripe harbor]

reflects him and kris a little, maybe. I think the Mantle game is played on the Dreemurr upstairs mirror, so I'd believe it.

though imo the most important bit is the controller was the one Asriel used because he didn't want Kris to use the bad one

it's a knock-off controller

[desert raven]

It’s also weird how he’s coming “next week” as of CH1, which could mean he shows up as early as CH5, but also has been completely cut off from Hometown

[ripe harbor]

its the poor imitation controller

which means it was one 'no one wanted to use'

[desert raven]

And how the save file differences seem to relate to Asriel somehow?
His drawer is different, the TV Dinner is different, and there’s unused text implying the Lodestone was different

[desert raven]

Asriel used the things nobody wanted to because otherwise everyone else would be stuck with the worse stuff

[ripe harbor]

absence means the memory of him drifts a bit more?

[desert raven]

Maybe?

[ripe harbor]

unlike the rest of the Dremurrs, he exists (from the perspective of Hometown and the Camera) entirely in references and the mind

[desert raven]

And Kris might have been the one of only ones to talk to him that much, over the internet, after he left

And now they can’t, around the time we show up

It’s almost like Asriel is kind of… sectioned off from the rest of the world?

Well, he is
Literally, even, he’s at college

I really don’t know what to make of him

[ripe harbor]

I'm still not entirely sure he'll show up, we'll see

Hometown might also be sectioned off from the rest of the world. Either metaphorical, or not.

either thematic (its the middle of NOWHERE and it's got hangups on the past, it's stuck) or mechanistic (fiber-optic cables & antennas both receive photons, maybe flooding anti-photons everywhere is fucking that up) or conspiratorial (Carol ATE the cables!!) or metaphysical (idk, timeloop? Nowhere Islands from Mother 3?)

You do usually want to isolate experiments, if anything involved is anything close to that. And Jevil claims his 'captors' really locked away themselves, equating the prison they built to the world.

The world has borders. Beyond them, Nowhere.

whether thats just the Shelter, or if Hometown has edges too? Doesn't really change much for me honestly. But I assume its real for now.