Undertale and Deltarune

[ripe harbor]

You can find the forgotten man by doing glitchy repetition of the same action, and he probably gives you an unrepresentable item in the Egg, but he doesn't seem like he's in a good place. He's glitchy, but its like an affliction.

or even moreso, how Seam is able to know you'll find Gerson & The Knight before their main appearances, but has no idea how the Shadow Mantle went missing- or how you got it back.

To a lesser extent, they ask about chapter 2's crystal being in the 'Old Machine', but are surprised that it was Spamton specifically that found it. Is there some actor not accounted for in the Prophecy, here?

like its super notable the way both of those ^ are also tied to the weird route, and a mysterious unknown third-party, who could be the same entity.

at least to me

though this is assuming the shadow mantle speaker even wants you to do weird route.

I guess its like- Gaster is glitchy, but is in that space of an author or programmer(?). is an anomaly. Or a bug, or an error, or unwanted noise in a transmission. Or a literal glitch (and Noelle's 'Glitch hunting blog' definitely seems to run into it a lot, same with the unused UT 'bug-catching room'.)

But thats just my current read on it. And Gaster's programmed helper-tool seems like its also a pretty strong possibility.

and then Dess The Roaring Knight is just fuckin' about or w/e.

too busy beefing with 16 year olds

[sour mesa]

kids have it coming. gotta keep 'em in line

[ripe harbor]

only swoons the Darkner & the poorest member of the Fun Gang
what did Dess mean by this

my most 'fuck it why not' all in on Friend is definitely that mus_smile is an it thing, and was always an it thing.

gotta bet on something theory wise, that one is juicy

It means Entry Number 17 wouldn't just be Gaster starting an experiment, or something random going wrong- it means he opened up the dark and found a 'smile' inside. Waiting there already, or just born right then.

Something related intrinsically to the number 6, which is weirdly associated with cats.

Something which has its laugh play each time, not just the last, it grows darker in Ralsei's explanation of Dark Worlds. The laughter in the dark, and the laughter in mus_smile. The laughter that you hear near the shelter & over the phone in any Dark World.

[rain lotus]

well her mother's the mayor

[ripe harbor]

lost everything but the WASP politics 😔

tragic

[sour mesa]

they're literally not protestant. or white.

[ripe harbor]

yeah but it was funnier to say than any alternative

also like they still got the christmas thing going on? Even with the angel faith?

And its definitely at least almost named Christmas, because of the Krismas pun? Weird family.

[ripe harbor]

📝 ("todo: figure out NIMBY = BAMBI pun for Carol Holiday slander")

[rain lotus]

butt and my back iard

https://tenor.com/view/chefs-kiss-french-chef-perfect-dish-excellent-food-perfection-gif-20341505

[low surge]

Being an Asgore fan is actually pain because everyone else is adolf woman hater

Get these people away from my goat dawg

[sour mesa]

asgore stan resentment is wild to me because like

do you really need an explanation for why "kills you" guy is less popular than "gives you pie" lady

this is not difficult fandom psychology

[sour mesa]

wait that's your own trident dawg

[low surge]

Asgore Stans are all idiots except me I’m the only good and smart and cool and pretty one

We like our goat dad as a loving but deeply flawed husk of a man so crushed by loss and hatred of the path he’s set himself down that his only solace is retreat into a world that will never exist again, not some innocent blorbo get that shit out of here man

[low surge]

Misogyny

Like yeah Toriel is a flawed character and that’s good, but she’s not mega satan and her flaws don’t make Asgore innocent

Like he’s absolutely morally worse than her yes correct

Real Asgore fan know this

[timber widget]

Kris, do you do not know him so much?

(what was he cooking??)

[strange cloud]

Funniest bit is that asgore himself thinks this

He’d absolutely despise people for defending him while putting down Toriel lol

[low surge]

Yuuuuuup

[strange cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-asgore-nomercy-gif-4931669

Asgore when he sees r/Asgore

[low surge]

I would ask if they ever played the game but…

[strange cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-undertale-memes-undertale-meme-deltarune-deltarune-meme-gif-15303653660909606122

[minor merlin]

The Fandom is also starting to make Sans mega satan

[low surge]

Generational line

Sans is mega satan tho

[timber widget]

"Fandom"... Been years since I heard that name...

Wait this sounds like I'm talking about myself I just haven't interacted with the fandom in ages

[low surge]

I mostly just follow a handful of artists

The only other fandom space I engage in is here

And that’s because people here aren’t total drooling lobotomites

[strange cloud]

They will regret their words and deeds when sans becomes the father that stepped up

And then is banished to undertale

[low surge]

Also I hang out here so I can steal theories from scout and magma and share them with my friends so I look smart

[strange cloud]

Wait but I hang out here so I can steal theories from scout!

[inland hare]

I hang out here to dispense my most psychotic thoughts that vaguely gesture at a theory

[strange cloud]

I am actually here for one other reason

To complain about the larger UTDR community

[low surge]

If you’re here to steal from scout and I’m here to steal from scout, then who’s driving the car?

[strange cloud]

Clearly scout

[low surge]

Oh thank god

[rain lotus]

sans falls down a huge chasm

he wakes up and meets a HUMAN divorced mother

we can call it belowreversal

https://tenor.com/view/writing-fire-gif-523038869044733220

[ripe harbor]

deranged theory-heads in chat together is how you get the good stuff its like a petri dish for guessing

sometimes there's real obvious stuff you just don't have the right context for, so its good before you jump into the deep end to get the "Actually this is just a Homestar Runner / Homestuck reference." lol

[ripe harbor]

games rating jumps to at least T minimum

[ripe harbor]

green pippins voice I do...........

"Why is it the same sound effect from the omega flowey fight aswell? What does it mean?!??!"
It means its not waves-of-water, its waves-of-sound, or waves-of-signals....

It means a flooding of 'water' is in some way analogous to static. A monochrome smear where nothing can be made out individually.

though I should check if this plays in game or just in a few uploads of the track

doesn't seem like it plays in game

how odd

usually the differences between the OST and the in-game version go the other direciton, like the extra babbling voices in Big Shot

so idk if its intentional or not, or meant to be noticed.

[ripe harbor]

I think one reason I personally am willing to give Gaster leeway until he does any real bad stuff is that that opening scene seems a little lonely to me.
Like you got this underlying idea of people disappearing, and the world moving on without them, and he at least partially seems geniunely interested in 'Connection' for its own sake. Can't imagine he has many bonds.

He can also be obsessive towards whatever his goal is, and detached enough that he has trouble seeing people as people and not just variables. But theres a bit of pathos there.

It would suck to be forgotten, man

[crimson badger]

might tie into free()/UNUSED stuff, since (hot take) if I was stuck in a hell dimension that offset me from causality my first priority wouldn't be to do mad science to it. What if everything that wasn't the scientist got noised out until the only thing you could make out was The Royal Scientist, W.D. Gaster

maybe

The more I digest this thought the more crackthought it feels

[amber jolt]

AGAIN?

[ripe harbor]

I think its got some potential- he was shattered. And The Roaring Knight also seems to have some of their details literally eroded away (they're like an actual stick figure)

so I could definitely see THE VOICE as like, the science-work-focused part of W.D. Gaster, and all that remains coherently. He's probably different in some major ways from the guy who fell in, if thats still the origin.

[crimson badger]

yeah its just, I think the shattering (if that's still in play, it probably both is and isn't knowing how much of a guy gaster is, what a guy) is different from whatever happened to UNUSED, was what I eventually digested, mainly by the aspect of Connection with other places present in the zone with THE VOICE, whether by their agency or just as an inherent property of it, and by it being more definite an existance, than the existance in unexistance that seemed to be happening to UNUSED.
...
...Then again UNUSED did get separated from causality in a way, just not as violently as Wingdings...

[ripe harbor]

yeah, the characters who all went into the dark all have a few different things going on, though I think they broadly fit the whole idea of becoming indistinct

being scattered across time is really just the 'when' part of you getting fuzzy, imo. Or at least thats how I see it for Gaster.

Definitely seems like he got it the worst- can't even type his name without a reset, meanwhile Unused is getting quoted directly(?) by an in game character, once.

[crimson badger]

one became part of the background noise that can be tuned into, the other completely offset from the world, leaving a -shaped hole in it

[ripe harbor]

but the second still whispers!

both cases you still got some information coming back up

Thats kind of what I mean when I say if the Royal Scientist origin is still applicable. I'm sure it is to some extent, but I also don't think theres any way to determine what's Gaster and whats Echo-or-hole-made-of-Gaster-Information. Like a Gerson / Old Man type deal.

[crimson badger]

"I'm !"

[ripe harbor]

and I'm sure Deltarune will give its own explaination for that voice, if its character or origin ever becomes relevant

[crimson badger]

would be really funny if gaster bullshit just haunts us through toby's gamedev career tho

[ripe harbor]

realizing that if you do the Sword Route game the Door with the UNDEFINED / 000000 ||six zeroes...|| code is already open fucked me up for the rest of the day tbh

if you meet the character that says "alright I gotta jet cya later", and only then, the door with the NULL VALUE code is already open, like someone else opened it before you...

spooky

[crimson badger]

I'm sure its nothing THAT important... :)

[ripe harbor]

Relatedly, theres an interesting overlap between optical terms, computing terms, & mental-construct terms in Virtuality

I think its probably the one word that sums up the Dark world in relation to the Light for me right now. The Concrete & The Virtual.

[crimson badger]

Conk Kreet...

[ripe harbor]

The "virtual" is "ideal-real". It is what is not real, but displays the full qualities of the real—in a plainly actual (i.e., not potential)—way. The prototypical case is a reflection in a mirror: it is already there, whether or not one can see it; it is not waiting for any kind of actualization. This definition allows one to understand that real effects may be issued from a virtual object, so that our perception of it and our whole relation to it, are fully real, even if it is not. - Wikipedia's article on Virtuality (as a Philosophy term)

so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the ways the setting metaphors swap from the optical / coloration / light based to the digital / data / signal based might be hooked around this idea which connects both

obv idk the dev process or what sort of intended concepts are being used in the art direction. But I'm hooking my understanding on how its all working on this for now.

[crimson badger]

we were in plato's cave all along

[ripe harbor]

I mean he did write a game about someone born in the underground seeing the light and then returning to free the rest of their people ||/s||

I saw a really funny vaguepost a while back where someone was complaining about theorists "assuming Toby is aware of niche greek philosophies that only 3 people have ever heard of." and I was like ok I know you're probably referring to the gnostic based theories, and while I don't really truck with a lot of those as reads:
He was a homestuck fan. He's definitely heard of it lol.

[inland hare]

[crimson badger]

reminds me of the conclusions in Jacob Geller's sotc video, which (HEAVILY PARAPHRASED) was that even if the players weren't tuning into anything concrete regarding the dev's vision, they were still delving into the game and parsing its ideas (whether by intent, their own cultural context reflected through its lens, or misfires that lead further), and delving into other ideas that interrelate to it in their search

toby was in andrew hussie's basement he knows about the Demiurge

[ripe harbor]

I also just love the way they phrased it. Which gnostic hurt them.

Thats personal beef.

[strange cloud]

Gnosticism isn’t even like, uncommon in fiction. Even if he’s never read any gnostic works, he’s almost certainly experienced it via other stories

[strange cloud]

Didn’t Hussie make his self insert in homestuck the demiurge?

[ripe harbor]

Most of the time its more aesthetic, imo, but it crops up enough

[strange cloud]

I mean yah but still

[ripe harbor]

I think theres also just mythical characters named "Yalbadoath" and stuff

[inland hare]

Everyone talks about the gnostics but never the agnostics

[ripe harbor]

I'm just not sure what could be said about them

but I'm open to possibilities

[inland hare]

Lmao

[strange cloud]

Part of their deal is being

Very neutral on things

Not much to discuss there

[crimson badger]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-neutral-gif-8034848

[ripe harbor]

Gaster Truthers and Gaster Deniers when Gaster Agnostic walks in:

[inland hare]

Damned neutrals

What makes a person go neutral

Lust for EXP? Gold?

Or were their Hearts just born full of neutrality

[ripe harbor]

part of the fun, imo, is trying to figure out whats intended important reference and whats just sort of ambient cultural info or aesthetic inspiration. Like the biblical cribbing for Deltarune from Genesis & Revelation: Important for the themes, or being used a vehicle for the other bits?

[ripe harbor]

tell my SOUL I said: "hello" glass shatter sound

[crimson badger]

no yeah when I wrote the sentence I forgot to include the conclusion that was "and even if it doesn't lead to anything IN THE GAME, I think that's still just great that its happening"

[ripe harbor]

I've definitely learned a lot more about optics recently, lmao

sat down and was like "alright how does this light & glass stuff work anyway"

the biggest thing about allusions and connections to me though is that you should always center the work itself. Identifying what an element might be taking from or referencing can only go so far, or at least is just the start. You gotta look at the context of how its used.

Do I think theres definitely something that could be going on with white light diffraction patterns, chromatic abberation, color fringing, and ? Yeah maybe. But theres also other stuff, its just a starting point.

Its not just a direct copy-paste

sometimes gnostic interpretations of media are maybe a bit too fast to boil it all down to gnosticism, lmao. I've seen people who will interpret nearly every jrpg with that lens.

[crimson badger]

yeah there's no demiurge keeping you in an imperfect physical reality separating you from Divine Light, stop searching

but yeah the analysis bit of how bits are used/could be used/are being used is where the real meat of finding points to latch from

[inland hare]

But what if i want to be severed from the divine light

[ripe harbor]

Gorbino's Quest is a good game for that

[strange cloud]

Cruelty Squad

[crimson badger]

I think I've mentioned it before but doing this stuff gives the same happy juices as when you're doing worldbuilding/narrative planning and you just stumble upon a rule or moving part of the setting/narrative and see how it cascades out and fits neatly with previous decisions

like that way also lies madness because I've had some thoughts fire off in increasingly disconnected attempts at making connections (most recent one I think is "ERAM is to Kris what the Knight is to Dess", whatever that means)

but also sometimes you stumble upon non-obvious connections, or further crystallize obvious onese

[ripe harbor]

thats why I try to do a really scattershot approach and then just see what crops up most consistently

ERAM is to Kris what the Knight is to Dess keep cooking here though...

its good to not be 100% confident in your first take, and try to see what other ideas you can come up with

[inland hare]

King and the Queen were only guessing at the motivation of the Knight

I always did wonder what the Knight did that gave them that uhhh impression

[ripe harbor]

aurafarm

[inland hare]

Queen and the King’s understanding of knight’s motivation must be, I think, two different interpretation of a same basic act

[ripe harbor]

I think for King its half cope

he wants that sort of purpose, having been 'left behind'

so he takes the action the Knight does ("Pulls the fountains from the earth") and integrates himself into it, or gives them a sympathetic motivation so he can feel like he's following something greater.

For Queen I actually think she doesn't care too much about the Knight's motivation, unless theres some bit I forgot. I have the feeling her idea to expand the Dark World would've been something she wanted regardless of the Knight's goals.

[strange cloud]

Yah queen never brings up why the knight made

She simply thought that she could achieve her own ends (happiness for all lightners under her bosum) via the same means

The creation of more dark fountains

[ripe harbor]

girlboss moves tbh 🙂‍↕️

[strange cloud]

God forbid a woman seeks a little world domination!

[ripe harbor]

Underrated character moment for her is when she gets a little sad-drunk at the end and starts mulling on Lightners & Noelle's personal problems

almost lamenting her inability to solve them

[inland hare]

Nah it’s definitely the lightners fault for being too complicated

The mind control plugs will be an improvement

[crimson badger]

yeah, I think being here has done a lot for me to develop a language to analyze and dig into media but I'm still far from fluent into fully digging in by myself, still repeating all that I know

ok so the ERAM stuff is how our mantleholder friend (lowercase in this interpretation) seems to be pushing for Kris to engage in their darker urges: a voice in the dark, a call of the void; or even make them more extreme, with some agency of their own and a connection to deeper Dark. The scattershot is extending that to the Knight being that Equivalent to Dess, or even an endstate of such relationship, with not much left from Dess other than the urges pushed.

now I don't feel much more to dig in from that, but it makes me feel that I can tug from it a possible motivation of the knight, (if it isn't a being with its own agency/direct part of the conspiracy), it might be trying to play with Kris/Noelle, the only way it has left to (due to things getting noised out leaving the prophecy behind rather than "standard" circumstance). Still doesn't answer why now though, and feels incomplete still

[crimson badger]

gray is too much, why not just pure white or pure black

[inland hare]

Perspective is what gives darkenere their form so really the lightners are to blame for the King and Queen being like that anyways

Once they are well and truly blinded either the darkeners will cease to be animate entirely or will be truly free to be whatever form they want

[ripe harbor]

nice and 'undefined'

[inland hare]

There is something akin to freedom in dark was

[ripe harbor]

I do think some of Jevil's whole deal regarding that is a bit slept on

the idea of "stepping outside of bounds = being free, its everyone else whos trapped" feels like it will come up again with the mantleholder

[strange cloud]

Chat, have we considered Kris deserves to be manipulated by Carol and used by us because they threw Yoshi in a pit?

[inland hare]

I mean that goes without saying

Same way Noelle deserves to be used by us and forced to make frozen chicken because she practiced eugenics

[strange cloud]

Literally

Snowgrave was deserved really

[strange cloud]

Gaster is 1A because he can affect the real world clearly

[low surge]

Thing that would absolutely happen

[strange cloud]

If asgore ever had a Twitter every tweet he’d make would end up on struggle tweets

[low surge]

Not even trying that’s just how it is

[ripe harbor]

this but in a way where its another mirror to Spamton having it too (mantas, strong intrusive & repetitive thoughts, religious obsession)

& they're both going to hell for it 🙂‍↕️

[sharp lodge]

https://old.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1ovmv34/my_take_on_what_pipis_are_lol/?ref=share&ref_source=link

[amber jolt]

https://www.tumblr.com/dooblesdoodles/786700600789319680/new-deltarune-theory-my-cat-is-wd-gaster?source=share

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-supernova-truth-supernova-supernova-truth-nuke-supertruth-nova-truth-gif-546761573344391275

[ripe harbor]

"How can I say so without fear?
I'm petting a piece of him right here."

https://tenor.com/view/gato-cat-kitty-leave-disappear-gif-11721306865059226765

[strange cloud]

People are making comics now where Ralsei loves the fun gang and is creeped out by the soul instead of the other way around

The world has finally healed

[ripe harbor]

now we need comics where the soul is creeped out by Ralsei to round out the list...

[low surge]

We are so back gang

[strange cloud]

From @ saom3rr

I love Sue Sylvester Carol so goddamn much it’s crazy

[low surge]

Slander Kris has definitely kissed many boys and girls

Just saw a fuck ass Undertale ai slop pic and I would share it because it’s almost funny but also not gonna break the rules

[strange cloud]

Who?

[ripe harbor]

like the agenda powerscaling version of Kris? Or is this a glee reference?

[strange cloud]

Glee reference

I think Robin is saying I’m slandering Kris

[ripe harbor]

ohhhhh I see

no shot imo. Maybe at most Noelle when they were both in like kindergarten the way kids just be doing stuff, but not in a way that means anything.

They just don't seem close enough with any of their peers

[strange cloud]

Yah that’s my thought process

The only one they had a chance with was Noelle but

The last time they were close was when they were like 12

After that Kris goes into their “distancing themselves from all friends and families due to the overwhelming guilt” phase

[inland hare]

What if they distanced themselves out of overwhelming joy

[strange cloud]

I doubt that

Somehow

[delicate cave]

https://www.tumblr.com/snapscube/800209247257460736?source=share

being normal official blog

🔁 chongoblog

i dont know how or what to do visual sprites for this so have just the textboxes

post-queen affected penny parker

-# #FUCK #THIS IS SO GOOD #deltarune

▶ Play video

Tumblr · Nov 14, 2025, 4:50 PM

[ripe harbor]

@crimson badger I've been thinking of the optics angle for the Spooky Mysteries, not just the data-code lens, and theres something interesting with color and shadows.

If you're making white light by mixing Red, Green, and Blue wavelengths, slight differences in source point actually make the shadows really vivid. Where the shadow is formed by only a partial blocking, one specific color, they look like the subtractive primaries instead.

in other words

The penumbra RGB lighting forms is Cyan, Magenta, Yellow

only on the border, where two of the sources are still mixing

feels like its probably my best guess for why Pink and Yellow are used in the way they are, associated with the shadow crystals and the shadow-cat-thing

thoughts?

[crimson badger]

!!
color-from-light and color-from-inkreflection

[ripe harbor]

It almost makes me think the angel's gonna lean more into RGB coloration. Its not not present, but the subtractives are way more common

like the Light World isn't RGB in the same way the Dark World consistently has CYMK (especially in concept art)

Fountains kinda do

[crimson badger]

(Cyanster)

[ripe harbor]

it is just thrown in there with the primaries lol

it would be all six, if only it had Magenta and Yellow

You also see Magenta and Yellow in lens-based chromatic abberation of white and red

[rain lotus]

phantasm

[ripe harbor]

cause combined they do make red

[ripe harbor]

"The edge of the shadow", huh

at the border of the shadow, where the color tends towards pink and yellow (and cyan?)

[strange cloud]

Cyan is apart of Deltarune now

[crimson badger]

I am trying to find the words but feels this could lead somewhere in regards to Light/Dark|Additive/Substractive interaction in regards to how much of dark world is nature/memory of the world, and how much is nurture (the psychoactive element of the originator)

[ripe harbor]

interestingly, though its speculation based on speculation, it would also make sense if the copy-bits and the shadow-bits are the same thing. A shadow is sort of a copy of something that exists.

in a way that just Darkness isnt

[crimson badger]

Maybe there's no Deep Dark but a Full Dark, and the Dark we've seen is just the penumbra or antumbra?

[ripe harbor]

could explain why the Titans have such odd symbolism compared to most of the dark, or . They are absence of light, why the others are negative images.

[crimson badger]

yeah, shadows are interference patterns, information holes

[ripe harbor]

thats kinda what I was assuming about the edge of the shadow stuff beforehand

like the Dark Worlds are very much the 'shallows' in the way they directly reflect the Light, imo.

Card Kingdom is still recognizably the empty classroom, Cyber City is still mostly the library.

[ripe harbor]

and then yeah, it kind of brings it together with the wave-interference

[crimson badger]

...sanctuary 1/2 are recognizably the church, but the tail end of sanctuary 3 starts to go somewhere else

[ripe harbor]

especially with the colored shadows, where its partial interference

whats interesting as well is the way this multiplies whats being lit up

[crimson badger]

(and also loops back to Gaster and even UNUSED as characters that exist in an absence)

[ripe harbor]

often (at least I do) you think of someone having a shadow

but you can totally make multiple shadows of one object

you can copy their image

and yeah- thats the color scheme.

[crimson badger]

but at the same time the shadow is a flat layer, that can't resolve anything but the sillouette

[ripe harbor]

Almost makes me think, when you add in the ERAM / Mirror stuff, or some of the other weirder bits for

that they represent you(?) blocking the 'light'?

Or at least an observer? A Lightner?

The color scheme is connected to red, and its connected to cyan. You find it in mirrors, and its the thing in those mirrors that stares back. To get a shadow, something has to be casting it...

Lightners dont seem to have a reflection in the Dark, they just transfer between the worlds. But what if they do?

Not sure I know what that means, theres just quite a bit of association with reflections & esp Kris / the Soul and Friend.

Its somethings shadow, its a mirror of something. Or a lot of things.

[ripe harbor]

Unless you could give those shadows form

Then they turn from an image into something as physical as anything else.

[crimson badger]

hmm, I'm seeing how things look like by pulling out a page out of persona pulling out of a page out of jung with aspects of the shadow and the unconscious

okay c'mon wikipedia

also feel a tie to Dark > incarnate shadow in the Dark > pull an identity of the Dark, and how the impressions of the originator affect way more than the origin itself

(Mostly thinking on Old Man being Gerson't, and Susie's possible Role Model/Guardian Trauma creating a Statue to punish her for making another Dark Fountain, and also on the ideas floated before of the Knight being Dess sketched over, over and over and over and over again)

Information is lost on the casting object if all you have for it is its projected shadow (Optics)

Shadow as a form of the subconcious/unconscious, oft in opposition to the conscious, hides/represses aspect of one's self (Psyche)
Collective Shadow expands this idea to a collective unconscious

I feel like I am not completely off the mark with this specific chain of associations, but it needs to percolate further

[ripe harbor]

There is an association between Unconscious background stuff and 'Eram' or Nightmares in Chapter 3

connected to the shadow mantle, and the shadow crystals

and also more strongly associating with both

If it really is 'the shadow' in an individual sense, it could just as well be it in a mental way

and supressed or resisted elements would be unwanted- you could consider them errors.

Nightmares are just unwanted dreams.

[crimson badger]

👀

[ripe harbor]

heartbreakingly, this idea of :FRIEND: represents Kris / The Player / An Individual's shadow, or reflection, or is a 'copycat' of them
would be a lens that brings it closer to Chara

The demon that echoes your footsteps

the one with the creepy smile, at your humble service, the voice in the dark encouraging you to GET STRONGER

RareCat9

[crimson badger]

can't believe FRIEND is Chara

[ripe harbor]

Its not not Chara. & that makes me mad >>:(

[crimson badger]

FRIEND does seem to be its own entity instead of just a reflection of us (at least not literally), unless there's weird metanarrative logic at play where it only exists when we're watching, or being told about it in the past

[ripe harbor]

this is much more speculative than just going "It appears in static & with wave disruption" and all that, but I think it might be less of a specific reflection and more like

formed from the collective reflection of people looking

[crimson badger]

yeah FRIEND feels Collective Shadow shaped

[ripe harbor]

like with the shadow's penumbra's tinting pink and yellow

and the little 'tinybugs' you can find with the same color scheme

maybe its some sort of mass collection of every minor 'error' in a person's shadow

like usually the fray is small enough you can't even see it, but all this slight coloration has to go somewhere, and it builds up?

In C++ Programming, friend is actually a keyword related to giving something not part of a class access to that classes private and protected data

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/friend.html

if its really a reflection or shadow of people (in a general sense), I could see its name being friend in that it inherits their permissions? It can know what they know, and go where they go?

Would be an explanation for its seeming omnipresence

It contaminates Dark Worlds because their creators don't consider themselves as something that would be reflected, acting as the sort of unwanted shadow-thoughts they keep away?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I don't know lol. I don't think it can be known at this point.

But I feel happy with these connections, this is probably all ultimately my best guess going into chapter 5. It feels like at least a good chunk of it is onto something, and anything more is gonna tell me which parts or if I'm completely wrong.

[crimson badger]

prolly

does lead more into the idea that FRIEND might be something that Gaster found rather than a Gaster or a Gaster agent (or maybe even going back to optic shadows, FRIEND being one of the few things able to contain Gaster info without reality rejecting it)

[ripe harbor]

"Where it comes from" was actually the question I was thinking about writing the above, yeah

If it came from the dark, or is a response to people mucking around in it

or was made directly

[ripe harbor]

Gaster doesn't let you say Magenta or Yellow is your vessels favorite color, after all

because its already used, or because he doesn't like it himself?

its 'unwanted', and appears in junk data or on a glitch hunting website, afterall. Gaster is the author or programmer.

Though both could be true. Maybe it was a creation that grew beyond him, or started doing things on its own unexpectedly.

"What happens when something without a soul gains the will to live?" type deal

[crimson badger]

if we go all in on shadows it might be as essential to a dark world as the "memory of the world" and intrinsic, or it exists in this state of pseudoexistence where it only exists when there's someone to reflect off of (and maybe even have a call of the void/fear/uncertainty element? FRIEND seems to only manifest where its REALLY dark, or when someone is alone)

What happens when something without a will to live gains a soul

[ripe harbor]

I definitely think its connected to the Memoryheads and their 'BadMemory' deal

in a pun way. Trauma, Nightmares, Corrupted Code, inaccessible data. Lost information. 'Bad Memory'

Speaking in dialtone and garbage noise

[crimson badger]

it's a wildass associative train to link optics with psyche with digital data but it doesn't feel wrong

[ripe harbor]

You can't even tell they're called Memoryheads when they first appear, either. The names blank, exactly like how Friend's sprites from chapter 3+ are.

[ripe harbor]

the digital data & optics at least link together in waves and wave motion

Transmissions, Color, Light, Radio- its all the same thing

and this definitely does seem like an element thats intentionally being used, because theres a lot of little wave-motion nods with Friend, and some other ones generally with like the fountains

@crimson badger the third sticks out to me (and both of these are the Airwaves minigame, ofc), because its pretty much 1-1 exactly the textbook wikipedia gif for wave interference lol

the fountain has these multiple waves that sort of phase together and split apart. Water, sure, but its evocative of a signal as well.

[crimson badger]

which reminds me I've been walking this road so long I almost forgot the Dark is Deep/Water related too, which is another wave interference source- yeah

[ripe harbor]

I think its definitely a pun the game plays with

what type of waves?

water waves?

sound waves?

Is it a flood, or is it a lot of noise - a 'roaring'?

I think the answer is a solid "yes" lol

[inland hare]

Wave particle duality

Which completes the darkness as anti-photon

[ripe harbor]

something that can be measured as a wave, or that seems just like ambient, but also

is a bunch of discrete 'circles' if you get into the nitty gritty

[crimson badger]

the interference/anti photon just made me associate the Roaring as not Gaster creating a sick high entropy cryptographically secure RNG method, and more an interference/information neutralization event (or even just an antimatter annihilation event lmao)

Dark Microwaves

[ripe harbor]

Microwaves are just smaller Radio Waves

both of which are photons

[crimson badger]

the Dark Roars into Light, and Neither Light nor Dark are left

yeah

[ripe harbor]

I still don't know if its name has any association with 'mike' or if thats meaningful lmao

[crimson badger]

It was big for me when I realized that visible light is just the form of radiation our eyes parse (followed by microwave oven mesh being there as a physical obstacle for this abstract wave thingy)

[ripe harbor]

I can hallucinate a connection if I want. 'Mic'rowaves. Cyan-Magenta-Yellow-Key.
but it just feels like its straight up guessing. I got no idea if its a bit or a real thing so I just ignore it.

yeah physics is kinda sick

[ripe harbor]

this also really easily explains why phones are so weird in both games regarding the gaster stuff

of course disruption of radiation would disrupt communication signals. Might even be why the internets cut in Deltarune.

[crimson badger]

just like how sound is the way we parse particle waves in a medium (optimized for our atmosphere)

which goes back to waves

[ripe harbor]

I think Rude Buster is a sound wave

people mention how it looks like the act symbol, but imo building off it is the juice. Shes hitting them with a magic sound wave.

I like how the sound-info bit plays with the reflections

makes it feel like all the noise people make, everything you say, its never truly lost. Just echoes into the dark.

Sort of like earth's expanding radio signature

[crimson badger]

there with you, in the dark

[ripe harbor]

can they maybe say hi next time. before the stalking.

[crimson badger]

Kris completely Deadpan while completely slathering the nuF gang with Tar

[ripe harbor]

dangerously hazbin style kris-tenna

[crimson badger]

I was going to make a tumblr sexyman joke but that's already tenna

[ripe harbor]

instead of "Oh ho ho!" shes got "Fa ha ha!" on the OST

[crimson badger]

ok but Ho ho ho

[sour mesa]

that is 100% a Dr Scratch pose

[rain lotus]

she still drinks battery acid

[ripe harbor]

so Noelle would read Homestuck (unquestionable) but would she manage to get Berdly or Kris to do the same.

[sour mesa]

She gets Kris on it. Berdley is the guy Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff was based on

[ripe harbor]

fun unmentioned detail about the MANTLE game is that you have your shadow in the room until you pick up the Mantle

[analog burrow]

Ooooh

[ripe harbor]

I checked all the other stuff and the coding seems very specific. Not keyed to if the screens on, where you are (mostly), if Susie's there with you-

its pretty much "Did you walk into the game / pick up the Mantle"

heres another set that shows it really well

[analog burrow]

Wait a minute, do you ever cast a shadow in the dark world outside of this room?

[ripe harbor]

rarely- I actually was checking earlier for that exact question. Backstage when Ramb is turning to stone, yeah
& also with the prophecy panels

not sure about anywhere else

[analog burrow]

cause I was just thinking

[rain lotus]

cybers world has a silhouette portion

I think

[ripe harbor]

see heres an example

[analog burrow]

Ah, that’s what I was forgetting

[ripe harbor]

this one changes as the game continues

the Mantle room itself is noticable mostly because it changes mid room with that trigger. Makes you wonder if the Shadow Mantle was literally partially Kris' shadow

[analog burrow]

cause my first thought was “Wait, is that how we were followed into the game room?”

[ripe harbor]

I think that might also be the case, but idk. Not confidently.

You have a shadow even when the screen is off in that room, up until the end

which is kinda weird!

[analog burrow]

Still can’t put a bead on what the Mantle is, that’s for sure

[ripe harbor]

seems very intentional that the exact moment you lose it is going inside

[analog burrow]

cause it wouldn’t make much sense for it to be in Seams possession if it literally is Kris’s shadow

[ripe harbor]

I'm just scooping it into my 'shadows and mirrors are both reflections' pot for now, given that the screen has a couple Mirror references in achievements and OST names (and is imo Kris' upstairs hallway mirror in the dark world)

[ripe harbor]

most people I watched play + myself didn't go back out this direction so I missed the real blatant shift

[analog burrow]

the shadow being present even with the screen off leads me to believe that Kris is being trailed very closely

quite literally shadowed

[ripe harbor]

this is also when the Shadow Mantle Holder tells you they are taking off

[analog burrow]

reminds me of the hand that pushes you back in the final prophecy room

[ripe harbor]

so even if they already left or the event flags are slightly different, I'd buy this is them heading out

[analog burrow]

just out of sight, mirroring your movements

[ripe harbor]

What better place to be unnoticed?

[ripe harbor]

Its so easy to be overlooked!

[ripe harbor]

also these parts feel a little important too in a sort of related way

seems like they might show you some hidden truths? Gerson appears entirely greyscale, and Noelle as her younger self.

sort of like the camera in chapter 3, or at least I put them in the same place

Glass is funky

[analog burrow]

Yeah, lotta new details I’ve been having fun watching people uncover as I check back up on the speculation space

I’m sure it’s been brought up before, but the similarities between Queen’s basement and the final MANTLE dungeon caught my eye as of late

[ripe harbor]

same song too, sorta

BIT ROOTS is a pretty clear variation on Digital Roots

[analog burrow]

the cracked brick walls, both associated tracks having “roots” in the name, this corridor:

(in which the MANTLE version features the exact same floor sprites from queens basement)

[ripe harbor]

a pink and yellow cat

just chilling around

[analog burrow]

https://youtu.be/n8WHKVwAw00?si=1VcBj3qOwU3AqdAG

while there’s a fair amount I don’t necessarily agree with in this video, I appreciate the details it points out regarding this

[ripe harbor]

Spamton's connection to the roots theme is also something I'm about, in terms of it being Friend associated

[analog burrow]

particularly the connection between the two areas, as well as the dungeon having a similar layout to hometown, when the previous one was analogous of the snowgrave route

[ripe harbor]

there is a proto-roots still in the files labelled 'spamton_house.ogg', and the main melody & his theme seem derived

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ri7ukxUBaY

[analog burrow]

I definitely don’t believe the chapter 5 dark world will be hometown, but things started to click a lot better when I saw discussion of the flower shop world being a facsimile of hometown

[ripe harbor]

ooo

like a nostalgic daydream for Asgore

how it 'should' be

[analog burrow]

Has me wondering if this could be a build up to a track simply titled “ROOTS”, and the area associated with it

I’ve always believed the panel of the prophecy depicted Kris’s house, but I could never really glean anything from it other than the obvious

and it’s nice to have some potential leads

[ripe harbor]

I thought it was the shelter mostly from the 'where the forest would grow'

though theres also that hidden book in the same room that mentions something growing from the bitter tears of a 'fallen star'

[ripe harbor]

considering how the GASTER ALL CAPS is sometimes used for computer-y terms ("DEVICE_CONTACT", "DEVICE_CHOICE", "SURVEY_PROGRAM", "AUDIO_ANOTHERHIM.ogg") I got at least the idea of ROOTS also being a play on like, root node or root access

Gaster as the 'Root' user of the 'program' or whatever

whatever that means

[analog burrow]

Oh yeah, the wormwood book lol

[ripe harbor]

Its so poetic I got like no hardline take on what it means lol

I could come up with 3-4 fallen star interpretations off the top of my head

goes hard though

[analog burrow]

Yeah, the Identity of the fallen star is the biggest question I have from it

The angel is referred to as a star once IIRC, but the thing I took interest in was the light star motif going on with Dess

[ripe harbor]

ya

The Knight 'as well' ( ) is seemingly Star, not Dark, considering its weapon isn't any more effective on it.

and its definitely Dess related

[analog burrow]

the Holiday household being devoid of star decorations despite the numerous Christmas trees, with the exception of a single star on the roof, and star decals all over December’s wall

[ripe harbor]

Its final screenwide move is a reference to Psi Starstorm

[analog burrow]

Yeah, and the direct mention of seeing golden stars in the knight battle

during the first attack of the second loop I think?

[ripe harbor]

though its hard to deny the Titan also has some Save-Point star stuff going on, and angelic motifs

Personally I think its wheres the -aster part of "W.D. Gaster" comes from, too

[analog burrow]

Oh shit yeah I forgot! The save points and titans!!

[ripe harbor]

I mean Aster is a typeface as well, but its like sans being a comic. Why Gaster got the star-name typeface

(The G is added on because he's a real one 🙂‍↕️)

[ripe harbor]

even with the mirror-reflection-copy-chroma stuff starting to link together in ways I'm happy with, the Titans are still a big mystery. Idk how they'd fit into the whole thing.

besides being Eyes, which are important to optics, color, and perception in general

[analog burrow]

Yeah, they’re certainly a big mystery. I’ve mostly taken them at face value with Ralsei’s description, and worked from there as to not overcomplicate things too much

Also man, there sure is a lot you can draw from the fallen star poem

[ripe harbor]

seems associated with the Shadow Crystals in some way

[ripe harbor]

though the other part is that the titans are

• 'crying' during their fight
• produce 'water' in the form of the fountains, which is important enough even Ralsei's introduction to Dark Worlds cutscenes starts with a river flowing.

Its not like the Roaring Knight isnt Titan like though. So it could legit be refering to both or even more characters.

[analog burrow]

Don’t forget the implications of the BitterTear item, which is seemingly just a drop of rainwater

[ripe harbor]

hard to tell what its description means by 'appears in many forms'

theres quite a bit of rain in chapter 4

not just the literal rain, but I think thats what the pillars dripping water is evocative of in general

[analog burrow]

well, it makes sense that a personification of the nebulous fear of not being able to know what lies in pitch blackness would take many forms

[ripe harbor]

ya but I mean moreso, hard to tell how relevant the Angel bits are to them

and how much was the church setting

they are made of 'THE HOLY' Dark Fountains, so I could go either way

[sour mesa]

how do you get that?

[ripe harbor]

I stole mine from a Mizzle 😎

[analog burrow]

Lemme double check, but it’s from susie’s comment when giving one to her

[sour mesa]

i seeee

[ripe harbor]

Ralsei dgaf

[analog burrow]

Water and darkness and glass and stars and snow like holy shit this poem is a can of worms I cannot wait to see grow even deeper lol

[ripe harbor]

It is very clever the way the alternate meanings get layered onto each other

[analog burrow]

Last thing before I got to bed, but I look forward to learning more about the significance of ice and snow in the weird route, given how often water is associated with the dark

[ripe harbor]

I was thinking of the mirror-dialogue in the context of mirrors as copies earlier, and they work just as well there as they do referring to Kris' alienation from themselves

An image isn't you, its just what they call you

[analog burrow]

ooooohh

[ripe harbor]

I think its gonna be main route important too, with the Cold Place

theres something there with snow and 'snow' (static)

Its actually one of the few (only?) places in the Dark World where you can see stars in the sky, too

just Castle town otherwise?

[ripe harbor]

I don't know if thats intended, but the writing can be real subtle when it wants to be lol. I'm a fan of the cracked conch dialogue on Tenna's board.

[analog burrow]

Same!

[ripe harbor]

where I'm not quite sure what it means but it ticks that "Seems written to refer to like, 5 different characters & maybe some Important Plot Bits overall"

[analog burrow]

All these disparate plot threads and theme and themes almost remind me of homestuck in the sense that we’re building to one big moment where everything comes together all at once lol

eagerly awaiting the day we can bear witness to Toby’s [S] Cascade moment

[ripe harbor]

and it still isn't even to the 'literal fever dream' part

[rain barn]

speaking of random tiny details that feel like they have Implications

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzhhhCl0j6Y

deltarune cracks, only the soul remains

[rain barn]

also that made me kind of scared for what chapter 4 would entail the first time I saw it because I thought it was ice, not glass

[low surge]

Same, first thought was it was ice

Which given the weird route stuff I think it can be read as that as well

[analog burrow]

I swear if the PureCrystal is described as “cold to the touch”

[delicate cave]

https://www.tumblr.com/contemptible-scoundrel/799261394798264320?source=share

[crimson badger]

light world fight in the style of undertale, and its dealing with gaster raiding your fridge

[manic parrot]

the ol' Metal Gear Solid

[manic parrot]

https://tenor.com/view/scare-prank-fridge-prank-lol-funny-pranks-gif-3953301

[crimson badger]

Immediately thought to the mgs4 fistfight where you're just chucking healing items at each other past a certain point to keep going

[sharp lodge]

https://www.rxddit.com/gallery/1owz30k

[minor merlin]

"no earthly idea" IT'S AN ALIEN

[crimson badger]

starknight confirmed

[tidal fox]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kTM5ko9c4Sk&pp=ygUSbWYgZG9vbSBzbGVuZGVybWFu

[strange cloud]

this is what Noelle deals with daily

[ripe harbor]

Its still really funny she seems like the only member of her family not in the loop at all as to whats happening

[strange cloud]

Girl plays a game so bad she accidentally summons a demon

Has no idea

[ripe harbor]

hmm

Common causes of ghosts (in the more specific sense) are:

- Mismatched impedance along the communication channel, which causes unwanted reflections. The technical term for this phenomenon is ringing.```

hmmmmmmmm

the technical term for that is ringing?

its also known as 'Ripple'?

[low surge]

Scout changed their pfp it’s over

[rain barn]

they got em

[rain barn]

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:cadyszdkstimem6xparlhhxy/post/3m5khqxusqk2a

//; (@surreaxicated.bsky.social)

holy shit an actual attempt at posting
#deltarune #krisdreemurr

Reposts

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Likes

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Bluesky · Nov 14, 2025, 12:53 AM

[rain lotus]

they beat the knight and pull off its helmet like its scooby doo and it's just

[ripe harbor]

It was actually partially an accident lol

I was trying to change a server profile and updated it globally

💀

so I just went fuck it we updating now

another server I was in did a thing where nearly everyone had halloween pfps, and ofc you know I was rocking the

[analog burrow]

Noelle forced to cast Coalgrave on Berdly in the naughty route 😔

[minor merlin]

Hmmm... this took a... weird route.

https://youtube.com/shorts/cr2QC4aFoYo

[low surge]

It’s funny, my current one started as a Halloween edit but I ended up being lazy and also liking it so much it’s more or less the only one I’m going to use from now on

[strange cloud]

I gotta say, it is very funny how quickly people who hate Kris start talking like a final fantasy villain when describing why

“I improved their life so much! They should be thankful for what I’ve done! Without me they wouldn’t even have friends at all!”

[rain lotus]

all kris did was chuck a bottle at me and it's nothing i'm not used to

[inland hare]

I love Kris

But for their own benefit I’ll need them to step into this jail cell

For dog crimes

[crimson badger]

sent to dog hell to repent

[low surge]

Gonna have to teach myself how to read katakana so I can unlock all the secret bullshit Toby is hiding in plain sight

[ripe harbor]

love this account. its got some fun details.

he wants it so bad

[sour mesa]

i think the bead toy is more prominent than the tail of hell at this point tbh

[ripe harbor]

our beloved connection 😳

[ripe harbor]

true lol. I think people are way too confident about the tail of hell stuff in general.

[low surge]

Gaster is a fruit theory

[ripe harbor]

the beads are too often forgot

[sour mesa]

A green one

[ripe harbor]

new zealand gaster.....

||because he'd be a kiwi, see||

[low surge]

shudders

[ripe harbor]

I've been thinking about what dark-related things might also be glass

glass beads are a thing? but I don't know if thats whats going on here.

something something, Dark = Amorphous, blurry, low resolution vs. Star = Sharp, pointy, clearly defined edges, blades?

is this anything

[analog burrow]

omfg I can’t believe I forgot the beads 😭

[low surge]

Awesome poly couple, evil and intimidating beads

[ripe harbor]

discrete units strung together

uhhhhhhh digtal = digit = fingers = hands. Gaster confirmed?!?

[analog burrow]

Also like, the set path is used as metaphor for the prophecy

and the beads crawl along

[inland hare]

The crawling beads

[analog burrow]

so like, y’know

the tale of hell

[inland hare]

Crawl along the little bead toy yes

[ripe harbor]

The tail of hell could definitely just be 'the prophecy from the dark'

[inland hare]

At the hospital

[ripe harbor]

though, there is at least some distinction between 'Deltarune' and 'The Tail', where they are put at odds by the organikks

one must be followed, one shouldn't be

at the same time the beads only really do anything if you do the weird route. So following 'the tail' as the beads might just be doing the weird route

no idea what it would mean to take crawl either way

[ripe harbor]

maybe the japanese translation has the answers ❗

maybe not

[sour mesa]

I think it makes the tail/tale connection weaker

[ripe harbor]

its definitely weird that the tale is still called pointed in the text, but the pointed graphic is completely unused

[analog burrow]

It’s a real head scratcher

[ripe harbor]

if other people want to say its thats fine by me tbh. I got my own things to go crazy about they can have this one.

I'm wondering if theres a pun about derivatives in the calculus sense and derivatives in the artistic-work sense

[analog burrow]

Things get funky when you consider the beads only breaking from the path in the weird route, which Buddy Pal Chum and their companion/alter ego Nightmare AKA John Mantle have some notable ties to

[ripe harbor]

but them taking crawl is assuredly going to happen, or have already happened, in all versions of the prophecy

though breaking them might prevent that from happening. idk.

[rain barn]

I still feel like the weird route will follow the prophecy to the letter while the normal route will break from it, not really on any basis other than "it'd be emotionally satisfying to me"

[ripe harbor]

I can respect a healthy amount of cope

btw I think I have a suspicion why copies are monochrome, hows this sound:

Gut feeling is that its related to the seperation of luminance & chrominance data used for television broadcasts and digital photography, where the luma information of an image

is naturally just a greyscale version of the thing you're making an image of

Apparently color-tv and digital photography was already making achromatic copies and then filling them in later this whole time. I never knew tbh.

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/its-rubbish-its-peam-rubbish-its-peak-gif-5313681084982718404

[minor merlin]

...Deltarune sucks because Asgore... ate food?

[low surge]

The thesis is that Asgore is out of character compared to Undertale and made into a dopey joke

[minor merlin]

I feel like someone gets a lot more chill if they don't like

Murder 6 children because they believe there's no other way to free their people

[low surge]

“Give me back my emotional wreck goat man, Toby” - person that has literally not played a second of Deltarune

[minor merlin]

And didn't lose both of their children

And-

[low surge]

Yeah

[minor merlin]

Also he doesn't seem like he's entirely fine and all that in deltarune either

[low surge]

Yeah like compared to Undertale, Deltarune Asgore hasn’t been hit by nearly as many emotional bricks

[sour mesa]

It looks like it's criticizing deltarune for changing between chapters

Not for changing from Undertale

[minor merlin]

The universe didn't beat the whimsy out of him with sledgehammers

[low surge]

But he’s pretty solidly in “emotional wreck” territory if you ask me

[sour mesa]

but i might be making the thumbnail too load-bearing

[low surge]

That’s part of it, but they also have a lot of weird points like saying how a lot of stuff is clearly retconned (like darkners being objects)

[sour mesa]

hm
there were very clear hints about that one

[low surge]

What’s crazy is this was the person who proposed universal mother theory like dawg what happened?

I feel like Asgore certainly has silly and dopey energy from the get, see: eggs-husband

[sour mesa]

That was a ch4 thing, so they'd be using that as evidence of the change not continuity

(it was a ch4 thing right)

[low surge]

2

[sour mesa]

i am the fool

[low surge]

Step banned from UTDR community and executed in the street like a dog

[sour mesa]

very sad

[low surge]

I cry every time

[ripe harbor]

2 eggs and a jar of pickles is a perfectly fine thing for a grown mans fridge to have. to be the only thing he has. he's fine.

[low surge]

Women just can’t understand how little it takes for a man to be happy

Asgore is a very happy and mentally stable person with no emotional scarring or indications of being deeply disturbed

Also Susie learning healing magic is sexist, apparently

Loooook at my fandom dawg

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-meme-trying-not-to-laugh-laugh-homeless-gif-9458928528704746136

Susie was the most self assured character in this godforsaken teen drama

[ripe harbor]

honestly its the Holiday women being 'straight up villains' or 'pushovers' that I disagree with most here tbh

I don't think either is accurate (especially given the context of three more chapters to go)

[low surge]

Agreed as well

This whole video is just bizarre

[ripe harbor]

I also don't think it robs susie of her self-assured moments ("You know what I think?" to Tenna) when she reveals that shes got doubts and insecurity (probably half of her chapter 4 scenes, like the piano or the 2nd sanc climb or speaking to the Titan)

[low surge]

Exactly

[ripe harbor]

||its actually cooler that shes a little unsure but tries anyway||

[low surge]

Agreed agreed

[ripe harbor]

its more geniune than the literally-hiding-her-eyes cope persona she had in Chapter 1, at least

[low surge]

She doesn’t even really fall into the stereotypical female healer archetype either

[rain barn]

if anything it's closer to cecil's arc in FF4

"person resigned to being a tool for violence has to learn how to protect and heal things instead of just destroying"

-# I never finished FF4 though so it's more a broad strokes than detailed comparison

[ripe harbor]

the core takeaway of it is "do / don't do things because you want to, and not just because you feel you have to."

[ripe harbor]

this is prob true too

I'm interested in how that might apply to the plot overall

Fate = "For those who abandon healing". Wonder whats going to be healed.

or could be healed.

when you know it might be some Dess Nonsense but you cant prove it:

[low surge]

There’s also multiple stories or examples we see in game where Susie breaks things on accident or while lashing out, seeing her learn healing magic to me is part of her learning how to mend things in her own way and control her frustrations with how people perceive her

[rain barn]

unsure how to put it thematically but: thinking about how susie's healing magic is also used for lighting in the second sanctuary

lighting up the dark and revealing the true nature of the "old man"

[ripe harbor]

its also directly equated to how she defeats the titan at the end

also a sort of light (maybe also a sort of healing? 🤔)

[rain barn]

that said true nature is "he's not here, he's dead, this is just a shell" is concerning, if that is taken forward as foreshadowing

[low surge]

Purification

[ripe harbor]

wrong type of Raising Up Your Bat

you just gotta hope that part doesn't apply to the Dess thing

though imo it raises the interesting question of what someone themselves. Is Darker Gerson more Gerson than The Roaring Knight is (presumably, somehow) Dess?

Is it the continuous existance that makes someone an individual, or the traits you'd expect them to have?

[timber widget]

Time for two tails theory

[low surge]

D4rkDessire and Vo1d_ZzZ

[strange cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/goat-washed-my-goat-washed-lightning-mcqueen-mcqueen-gif-13084113942314445304

[low surge]

Ikr?

[strange cloud]

It’s so fucked

[low surge]

The fuck happened

[strange cloud]

How bad this video is

Every minute is worse then the last

[low surge]

Unironically feels like April fools rage bait

Bro was on to NOTHING

[strange cloud]

I feel like it’s so, idk indicative of people who say undertale characters are being mischaracterized that like

Characters aren’t just a list of traits that you apply stimuli to to get writing

They’re products of the environment and needs of the story

Like yes asgore here acts differently, as so most of the undertale characters

Because they serve different purposes and exist in different contexts

Asgore will never act exactly like his undertale self because he’s not a king taking on a burden he hates, he’s a divorced ex cop who couldn’t get over a lost girl and ruined his relationship with his family because of it

Also complaining about the dark world characters being objects is so weird because WE LEARNED THAT IN CHAPTER 2, WHEN WE BRING A BUNCH OF OBJECTS TO THE CLOSET AND THE DARKNERS COME OUT

[low surge]

Have you considered that actually you are wrong and also Toby is bad for writing the chapter 4 weird route

[strange cloud]

THATS A REVEAL FOR SUSIE, NOT US

Oh fuck

That’s true

Toby Problematic

[low surge]

Magma DESTROYED with facts and logic

[strange cloud]

Deltarune is one of those medias that shouldn’t have a fandom…

[low surge]

Fired out of a cannon into a volcano rip

[strange cloud]

Doing a fucking dangonronpa execution on me

[low surge]

Being surprised Queen no longer has major story involvement like what

Like sure would I love more Queen, yes

But she was never the focus of the story???

[strange cloud]

Like, the previous dark world villains aren’t super important after their chapters in general lol

King is sucking on his hamster feeder

And Tenna you can literally give away

They exists to add flavor to castle town now

[low surge]

Just baffling talking points all around

[strange cloud]

Also like, doing the whole “suselle is incest now because Susie is Noelle’s psuedo sister” is

SHE PLAYED A GUITAR

CHAT

COME OOOOOOOOOON

Chat when my friends interact with my sibling’s possessions, do they become my sibling?

Did I miss that?

Is it a Boston thing?

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/stank-dog-smells-gif-25356900

Incomprehensible argument

Universal sister and literally half the cast is crushing on her

But aside from that

Just also what

[strange cloud]

Also this, what

Queen is a computer

She’s always been a computer

That’s her whole character

SHE SAYS SHES ONE

[low surge]

Like universal mother I get but where is the sibling thing coming from? She’s only really indicative of Dess. Like sure Dess and Susie have overlapping characters traits (at least what is implied through various dialogue and her room) but that doesn’t mean anything incestual????

[low surge]

I’m Computer

Repeatedly says she’s a computer

[strange cloud]

(Smart)

[strange cloud]

Honestly I think the whole, Susie is kinda like Dess so actually Noelle crushing on her is to fill the void Dess left and therefore like, Freudian shit

But, Susie and Dess just play different roles in Noelle’s life

Susie is scary, Dess wasn’t

That’s a big for Noelle

[inland hare]

Dess was scary to other people

[strange cloud]

Susie, is actually closer to the role KRIS played in Noelle’s life

Being a scary prankster who she knows wouldn’t actually hurt her

[inland hare]

Noelle just wants to be slammed against lockers

[strange cloud]

Not to Noelle though

[low surge]

Truth nuke, making the tragedy of Kris separating themself from Noelle all the deeper

It’s almost like there’s layers to this shit

[strange cloud]

But no, she played guitar

So she’s Dess

And Noelle is Freudian

[serene loom]

i think this person is just bad at characters and stories and fiction

[strange cloud]

Also this isn’t true

Like flat out

Titans are the fear of the dark

Not a fucking persona esc collective unconscious thing

That’s not what Ralsei says

Titans are when you dig to deep and see something you’re not sure of

[low surge]

Jung moment

[strange cloud]

Also we don’t even kill it

Whatever we do it is distinctly not killing it

Because we can kill the spawns and something else happens

[low surge]

Narrative voice 0, actually

Gonna start using this

[strange cloud]

It is very funny

[low surge]

Literally says banish/purified for the spawn, and seeing as we use the souls light in a similar way I don’t think it’s anything close to killing

[strange cloud]

Yah like, the most obvious metaphor for the titans is that you purify them so you can see reality underneath

But I guess they’re a collective unconscious thing now

Instead of what they’re said to be

Man, it kinda is just the coalescence of “this isn’t just chapter 2, 2 so it’s awful and I hate it”

We didn’t firegrave enough darkners

[low surge]

Human I remember you’re firegrave

[strange cloud]

Sans in the chapter 4 weird route if Toby WASNT A FUCKING HACK

[timber widget]

This video sounds really glooby

[strange cloud]

It’s quite glooby

[ripe harbor]

even then tbh theres a good enough argument that them being 'literal' objects isn't the complete truth either, moreso representations of existing objects / perceptions

like you bring 'the weather channel' to castle town, and you can do that without having any TV there. You can take 'spam emails' places without a computer present.

probably because its expected or intended that they come along, so they do? Or its not important enough to the story to make 100% sense.

which is also fine imo

[sharp lodge]

i think this has less to do with the guitar and more with the assumption that susie and dess are similar people
which i don't get, because we don't know enough about dess for them to be comparable in any meaningful way

[sharp lodge]

this feels like them trying to turn a preference into a criticism rather than a meaningful critique

[ripe harbor]

you don't even 'kill' it either. You seal it like a fountain.

[sharp lodge]

i think they're getting to collective unconcious jungian stuff because of how dark worlds work
they seem to assume that if they're based off of an individual's thoughts, emotions, etc., if you open another fountain inside you break through the unconciousness of an individual and into the collective

tbh i think universal mother theory was a fluke if this analysis is this bad
though i wasn't the biggest fan of that one iirc

[ripe harbor]

collective subconscious for the titans is a maybe, I could definitely see that being the thing with the fountains and their weird motifs,
but as The Shadow as in the things you hide from yourself? nah

They're definitely the fear thing. Like a panic attack given form- overwhelming, constricting, huge.

They swallow up any other thoughts into themselves.

[strange cloud]

Also like, I will say “just embrace the shadow self” does make me think this person’s exposure to Jung is like

Persona 4

[ripe harbor]

lol

true

sorry wait one sec,

[ripe harbor]

I do think 'The Shadow' as a jung term is sorta-involved though

[strange cloud]

Thank you Adachi

[ripe harbor]

cause its an easy pun when you already have 'mental perceptions' and literal shadows involved

[strange cloud]

For sure

[ripe harbor]

I'd pin it more on ERAM / Shadow Mantle speaker though

[sharp lodge]

i thought that was what you did with it though? then again i do also have a pop culture understanding of it

[strange cloud]

But I don’t think it’s just a simple persona esc “you need to embrace your shadow self right now”

[strange cloud]

It’s mostly right to my understanding but also like, yah like you mentioned it’s very much the pop culture understanding of it

Like it is Jung 101, but I doubt this person knows Jung 102

[rain lotus]

https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_t5mjhe7dLg1yhkxjj_720.mp4

[ripe harbor]

also diving into the Titan is confronting fear head on

literally its letting yourself be swallowed up and then reaching the other side regardless. Just stabbing would be trying to 'fight off' bad thoughts, and that doesn't work.

Theres no denial or suppression, you take it all as it is.

[sharp lodge]

also like
i think the only reason asgore in undertale isn't as pathetic and pushy as deltarune asgore is he has responsibilites and duties, and toriel isn't there for him to constantly try to woo back
so he has a certain dignity he doesn't have in deltarune, at least until toriel comes back and some of that pushiness starts to show itself

[minor merlin]

Distort

[strange cloud]

Carmen

No

I’m not gonna distort because you told me to

[inland hare]

no

but I think Kris should love themself a bit more

and only themself

because a human being can only love themself

[strange cloud]

I feel like if Carmen existed in Deltarune

Hometown would be a land of distortions by like

The end of the day

[inland hare]

asgore would distort within 5 seconds of seeing toriel

[strange cloud]

He’s like

The perfect mark for her

[inland hare]

yeah but honestly

asgore probably genuinely could use more self respect

[strange cloud]

https://www.vxtiktok.com/t/ZP8DTqS3k/

Also speaking of

[ripe harbor]

they should love SUSIE (in whatever way they want)
and
then through LOVE OF THE OTHER love THEMSELVES

[low surge]

4000% canon

[manic parrot]

she's at least an 8

[low surge]

Realizing all this time I fell for the psyop that Sans had 1 HP and not 1 DEF

[rain lotus]

its like when i fell for the "susie says 'fuck'" psyop

[ripe harbor]

She probably does, right. What else would be a tier two swear word?

[crystal shale]

I can't believe Spamton is from Philly

[low surge]

GO BIRDS🦅 🦅 🦅 🦅 🦅 🦅

[timber widget]

At the very least she writes swears

[crimson badger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQgwbN45mlA
found spamton music

[lusty cypress]

String of circles
Like planets? Homestuck?

[lusty cypress]

The furtive beads...

[lusty cypress]

The fandom has an insane image of carol

[sharp lodge]

https://www.rxddit.com/gallery/1p09hpi

[rain lotus]

I Keep Trying to Thwart These Teenagers but All My Evil Plans are Goofy As Fuck

[timber widget]

The Knight standing in the computer lab, clutching the knife and chanting "Lock in. Lock in. Lock in." to itself, then they see the dark world has rollercoasters and teacup rides and swear

[crimson badger]

filing this into "the knight is trying to play with kris/the gang despite it all" folder

[ripe harbor]

yeah, I have no doubt shes antagonistic (and honestly probably does edge into 'kind of abusive' in her relationship to noelle)
but shes definitely going to have emotional depth. I mean her daughter went missing! Thats tragic!

[strange cloud]

For real

There is no version of Deltarune where the adults of the dreemurs and holiday family aren’t also tragic sympathetic characters

[sharp lodge]

this criticism still makes no sense at all
susie's not the team healer, that's still ralsei's job, she's just an off healer now and susie didn't stop being self-assured
if anything she became more so when seeing the prophecy slides
also like, toriel is not a pushover in deltarune
she's the one who initiated the divorce, noelle's whole character arc is about growing a spine, and there is no way dess (if she's the knight) and carol aren't going to get emotional depth

susie getting good at healing is her proving to herself that she doesn't have to just destroy things and hurt people

[delicate cave]

screw deltrarune for *checks notes* making Susie the protagonist? it's sexist for her to *checks notes* have interiority as she overcomes adversity and learns to accept herself

[ripe harbor]

literally the whole of the plot is hinged around the emotional responses and agency of the holiday family (but particularly the women)

[ripe harbor]

Spamton would get rugpulled.

[strange cloud]

He kinda did

Friend/Gaster/Mike/Eram/Dess did a rug pull and he went insane because of it

[ripe harbor]

nightmare blunt rotation

[strange cloud]

Look I wanted to keep my bases covered

There’s so many caller candidates

[ripe harbor]

Imo its gotta be tied into the pink & yellow colors, ultimately. Either directly, or in a relational sense.

Which actually doesn't cut anybody from that list because they all are or are directly associated with <- those things lol

(maybe indirectly for Dess, her links are much weaker.)

[strange cloud]

Yah at most they’re like

2 steps removed from the pink and yellow color

[ripe harbor]

so the questions are really "Whats the relationship between the number / element 6, and pink + yellow?" & "Whats the intended implication of Spamton's colored glasses?"

at least to me

sort of why I consider the Mantle Holder to have been the phone, even if that holder isn't directly. Theres a clear relation, a similar inexplicable presence, and that mystery is brought up again right before that Holder shows up.

why did Chara make Friend/Gaster/Mike/Eram/Dess make fun of Kris for doing Weird Route? Are they evil?

[strange cloud]

Yes

Toby is actually wrong

Chara does not deserve to be saved

And by chara

I mean Togore

[ripe harbor]

they could never make me hate you Togore Dreemurr, son of Asgore and Two-Toriel Dreemurr, and brother to
Asriel and Kris Dreemurr.

[strange cloud]

I love Togore

I love him so much

[minor merlin]

Who's Eram???

[ripe harbor]

fan nickname for the Shadow Mantle's Holder / Speaker, based on the title of a song that plays right before their fight

[minor merlin]

I saw ship art of Togore and a fictional Holiday made for it

I think Chester? Like Chestnut i guess.

[minor merlin]

Neato

[ripe harbor]

'John Mantle', Eram, Mantle Holder - all refering to the same entity. its the thing in the backstage game.

Imo, its probably . But it is intentionally ambigious for now.

[minor merlin]

Alright

[ripe harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfVus-FaXcA

this 'track'

song might be a little generous lol

it (probably) comes from 'Nightmare', but reversed and with the Knight removed ||they show up a little bit later||

that the boss track 'Burning Eyes' has the filename 'nightmare_boss' supports that.

[low surge]

I love this stupid fucking creature it gives me maternal instincts to protect it (by _ratpower)

[low surge]

Toester is elite

[restive comet]

The Knight is one hell of a GM

[low surge]

Teenager accusations not being beaten

[sour mesa]

Undertale

[sharp lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzHLUaE37Ik

[ripe harbor]

NaN cat

[strange cloud]

Asriel just like me fr

[ripe harbor]

^ Kris about Father Alvin

[low surge]

Dude fuck discussion posts I hated those fucking things

[wind sinew]

I’m going to attempt to translate this since there’s no way the auto-translate would work for this

“The possibility has started emerging that it’s Sans vs. Asgore X Toriel rather than Mad Mew Mew vs. Alphyne…
Green Pippins, are you a chemistry-holding middleman rather than a waters-tester looking for side romance?
Is the idea of an understanding supporting a divorced woman (concept) your fetish, Toby-Dog?

I can’t believe a winning pattern emerged from
SPAMTENNA GAY NOSE SEX”

I am not versed in the slang so this is not likely to be fully accurate

[minor merlin]

hey guys

what uh

what does a forest have to do with gaster?

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/toby-fox-deltarune-undertale-dog-meme-gif-3694215189381414809

How does he keep getting away with this

[sour mesa]

i think they're assuming "guy behind the tree" is gaster

(sensible assumption but not outright confirmed)

[inland hare]

The ice key

is in the forest

COINCIDENCE???

i still love btw

just how instantly Susie brought out the axe

when I told her Noelle was the enemy

no questioning

just instant violence

[ripe harbor]

I think my favorite weird (foreshadowing?) parallel might be this bit from chapter 2

idk about the blood crushers part but Busting Hell and Cat Invasions probably are gonna be relevant

[low surge]

It’s so over man

Looooo at my heroes of destiny dawg they are all fated to die in some way 😭 😭 😭 🥀

[ripe harbor]

"Carries out The Fate with the Blade"

[low surge]

Constantly flipping between fear and despair that the fun gang will all die and cope and optimism that they’ll actually all get to live and be happy

[amber jolt]

I don't think so. If its a white wind, it probably means one of them will survive

Tho that could also mean the other 2 will die

Which is uh

Yeah. Concerning

[rain barn]

white wind is a healing spell in final fantasy

a recurring Blue Magic spell and enemy ability. It restores HP based on the amount the caster has, and in some titles, also heals negative statuses.

[amber jolt]

Hm 🤔

[low surge]

I will cope to infinity that Susie will lock in and save the gang and while it will be bittersweet it will still be a happy ending

But fuck man

The Omens™

[timber widget]

Listening to: Blood Crushers the Band - Raise Up Your Bat

[amber jolt]

WHAT THE FUCK

https://youtu.be/ifINNsGgFyA?si=PGJPswWdKF6EjleZ

Z?????

[serene loom]

yeah if you suck ultrahard at the minigames you can get z rank

[inland hare]

Like you have to be intentionally trying to suck

Without outright dying

[rain lotus]

its surprisingly hard for part 1 of the games

[ripe harbor]

thats what makes this foreshadowing(?) so funny to me- on release chapter 2 means this predates that connection by a whole year.

Its like how the first mention of Cat Petters is chapter 1. Funny to imagine theres like a design doc with fake in-universe media titles that keeps getting referenced.

[ripe harbor]

If you want the secret Playstation Anti-Achivement you have to Z-rank the physical challenges without retries lol

[still yoke]

the most fun part about this is Susie referencing Crono's win sprite :)

[ripe harbor]

insane fandom

what no newsletters does to an mf

[timber widget]

"G*ster"???

[low surge]

Seeing as he has irl feats now we shouldn’t say his name and invoke his wrath

[timber widget]

(but also I'd rather we don't post people just to point and laugh)

[ripe harbor]

kind of true. Plus I do like people willing to search for connections.

this one just struck me

[serene loom]

you telling me Tenna is battering Ramb?

[crimson badger]

Spamton cannot know

[wind sinew]

(It’s rude to talk about somebody who’s listening)

[rain lotus]

my full name? o-oh... it's 𝙍𝘼𝙇𝙎𝙀𝙄 𝙂𝘼𝙎𝙏𝙀𝙍

[rain lotus]

you're gaster, they're gaster, she's gaster, I'M GASTER!!! is there any other gasters i should know about?
"i'm gaster"

[timber widget]

https://youtu.be/mkgBFtLh9QY?si=e5YnCox65DNzku-f

[restive comet]

People just can't let the poor man rest

[ripe harbor]

rest
his ass was Taken

or he just fell Nowhere, same deal.

[low surge]

Gaster dragged his ass kicking and screaming to the flipside

[ripe harbor]

beware the man with the hands

[low surge]

I need this image with FRIEND and Ramb

[ripe harbor]

well,

I've got this

is that anything. does that work.

[low surge]

Yes

Yes it does

[crystal shale]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268351751019302934/1422711145487138836/tumblr_3284841843fd3ba0a7bb8b055bc88825_572dab76_250.webp

[low surge]

Sucklet Mentioned!

https://tenor.com/view/suckletcord-sucklet-gif-18805676

[amber jolt]

Undertale Yellow Bile...

[ripe harbor]

hmm, idly wondering if the unnamed Element 3, used by Elnina (& probably 'Ice' for that reason)

has any relation to the 'Bitter' part of the BitterTears, given how most of the other icy or cold enemies have that emotional numbness to them.

& Elnina is. You know.

https://tenor.com/view/elnina-deltarune-crying-cry-undertale-gif-3735942483219362000

that'd be fucked up if true. Noelle why is your magical symbolism entirely based around 'Grief' & 'Fear' & 'Loss'. get this girl a therapist.

'Pain' or 'Emptiness' could also work as an underlying theme for that elemental pair. The cold locations are empty, the cold enemies don't form bonds, theres a gaping hole for both.

Emotional and literal pain too. Grief and whatever the Thorn Ring is doing.

[vocal elbow]

https://bsky.app/profile/wario64.bsky.social/post/3m64mq724i32h

Wario64 (@wario64.bsky.social)

Square Enix announces music & merch collaboration with Undertale

Bluesky · Nov 21, 2025, 6:10 AM

[vocal elbow]

https://bsky.app/profile/wario64.bsky.social/post/3m64mxqzhfi2f

Wario64 (@wario64.bsky.social)

-# ↩ Wario64 (@wario64.bsky.social)
UNDERTALE × Yoko Shimomura Piano Arrangement Album Announced coming soon www.jp.square-enix.com/music/sem/pa...

UNDERTALE: CHITEI DE CHILL CD up for preorder at Square Enix Store ($39.99) na.store.square-enix-games.com/undertale_-c...

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Bluesky · Nov 21, 2025, 6:14 AM