#Undertale and Deltarune

1 messages · Page 25 of 1

ripe harbor
#

'Tenna coded' no he didn't. His ass can't even use google right.

ripe harbor
#

glad more people are talking about this, or at least reads closer to this

#

"Kris is meaningfully different from 'usual' humanity in some way" seems like one of the more likely crack theories, in that it would click in very neatly with a lot of the vague mystery stuff & forms a strong parallel with Darkners in general

#

as well as providing an answer for 'why is their relationship to the Soul so odd compared to any other character'

low surge
#

Continuing my UTY play-through

#

|| at the Ceroba fight, she’s kicking my ass ||

rain lotus
#

wow it even has the fancy wrods

#

what musical stings do you think play here

#

sped up version of the quiz theme and then abrupt discordant piano chord

crimson badger
#

I can see an extremely bitcrushed scare/shock chord (maybe even a synth voice), a beat, and an audience reaction before continuing

crimson badger
# ripe harbor

it fits neatly with a lot of our meanderings here I think, or at least mine, would be really messed up and feed to their fears of being used up if the soul IS the soul they were meant to have because its out Soul, and just now manchurian activated to execute deltarune

#

there would be no soul they were getting back and no fallback, and if connection is lost do they keep living with the Soul as theirs, or do we leave, soul and all?

rain lotus
#

this game broke my brain i was listening to unrelated sludge metal and thought "huh there's a lot of ocean imagery here i think it's pretty knightcoded" and then realized what i was saying

rain barn
#

I was listening to shadows rising from stranger of paradise and thought "yknow this is pretty kris-coded"

#
    Cutting deep through the skin of my dignity
    I find myself, I lose myself
    I'm looking for something to hold on to in the darkness```
strange cloud
#

@ripe harbor

sour mesa
#

lol

serene loom
#

chara pap and rory too

lusty cypress
#

Literally me

#

You know, "you can't choose who you are in this world" really applies to kris and the player

#

The question of self specially, as kris seems worried about the intersection of their will and the soul's

ripe harbor
ripe harbor
ripe harbor
crimson badger
low surge
velvet olive
#

Asgore Is Banging Gaster Theory

low surge
#

It’s me! Your eggs-royal scientist!

low surge
#

If I was Kris and both my parents were cracking Sans I’d start the roaring myself

ripe harbor
#

Would it make them any less of a person?

#

What makes someone a human - is it the soul? Is Kris meaningfully 'human' without us?

#

is it the parts? Is the vessel a complete and full human person too, regardless of where we come in?

#

When did you start being yourself?

crimson badger
#

when did you- ah

#

sniped

ripe harbor
#

I think one place a lot of gaster-y device theories fail is not being meaningfully situated in the world itself

#

like - ok. Gaster built a 'device' to connect us, sure: where. What did he build in the world / setting he exists within to create that.

crimson badger
#

DEVICE_KRIS

ripe harbor
#

HERO_SWORD

#

I wasn't even thinking on those lines but thats interesting

#

I mean moreso it becomes indistinguishable from just assuming Gaster as a literal wizard

low surge
#

I do really like this theory yeah

ripe harbor
#

he cast 'GonerMake'

#

If you want to situate the device stuff as existing within the fiction, given the claims, I think you gotta at least consider its origins as existing there too

low surge
#

I think it would be an interesting twist if Kris was the Vessel, but they became their own person through the love and care of others

crimson badger
#

wait, what happens if a monster already capable of magic, gets exposed to dark world magic?

low surge
#

Which makes our possession of them all the worse

ripe harbor
low surge
#

Console commands

crimson badger
#

you reach outside the bounds outside your bounds

ripe harbor
#

lock-in on a video game enough, the game 'becomes' real. Color in copies, they become indistinguishable from the originals.

#

Find someone whos 'just' emails come to life, decide their personhood matters still

crimson badger
#

care enough about something, and no matter its unreality its importance cannot be denied

ripe harbor
#

The interesting thing is what the Burning Eyes boss sort of implies

#

care about something enough - look at it hard enough - and its reality can't be denied. Even if you want it to be.

#

You can't put the nightmares back in the box.

low surge
#

Hell it’s kind of perfectly emblematic of UDTR as a whole and how it has so much life outside of its bounds through the community

#

I mean the entire speech at the end of the anniversary stream after all

#

Toby may have created the games, but it’s the love of those outside of it that have made it what it is

ripe harbor
#

the ability to make things real

crimson badger
#

yeah, I am fully convinced the community layer is an explicitly intentional part of interacting with the text/metatext in DR

ripe harbor
#

(and maybe apply that to 'fate' as well? Tilt / force specific outcomes?)

low surge
#

Always was

crimson badger
#

Gaster's Roaring

ripe harbor
#

I think the timeloop theories might have a point, but not nessasarily in an actual time loop sense

#

I just could believe that "shattered across time" W.D. "related to Save files" Gaster might be sending the soul 'back' in some way

#

The world is covered in darkness in endings where you give up, it could've already happened in some way

#

each chapter strengthening your connection, allowing you to reach a little further along

crimson badger
#

...Iterating through Deltarunes to find His

ripe harbor
#

Perhaps you just haven't remembered that you have, yet

#
HM... ACTUALLY, THERE ARE STILL DINOSAURS... IS IT MIXED UP?```
#

Is it the future, or is it the past, or does the difference really matter when everything gets indistinct enough

sharp lodge
#

so i'm sure ya'll know about the theory that ramb was "supposed" to be the secret boss of chapter 3 but the knight didn't get there in time
i think i've already said that i don't like it
but i do think a small part of it might be true
which is that ramb isn't a secret boss because kris made the fountain
but not for the reason that that theory says so
we know from chapter 4 that fountains are influenced by the people who make them, look at the difference between susie's fountain and the other 2
and we know the knight made the fountains in chapter 1, 2, and most of the fountains in chapter 4
which means that the knights thoughts and feelings probably influenced those dark worlds
and those 3 chapters are the only ones to have a secret boss with themes of freedom

#

i think that freedom might be more of a hangup for the knight than kris, given that they take the soul back every time they remove it, so they're at least willing to endure our presence to accomplish their goal
also, i think that kris's freakout after the pacifist end to the spamton neo fight might relate more to the knight than themself, at least if this theory is accurate
because what ever literal or metaphorical strings might control the knight, the implication is that freeing the knight from their situation will lead to their death
and we know the knight is someone important to kris, and their situation is likely a cause for guilt for them

ripe harbor
#

They're also unhappy with what traps them, given their reactions whenever they're torn between Susie and Mysterious Phone Voice

#

but it could definitely also mirror the knight

#

especially if Spamton & the Shelter (aka the Knight) end up connected to FRIEND

low surge
ripe harbor
#

yeah instead you get Ramb whos an unmemorable outcast outsider who never properly fit into their home until they unceremoniously get used up and dissappear & nobody cares at all in the slightest

#

moral: Kris is british

#

||and not alright||

#

I was wondering the other day is part of Kris' angst with the secret boss quests is that it implies a Soul that is curious and seeking deeper answers

#

which, they're working to run whatever's going on with the conspiracy

#

which at least partially seems like its based on tricking the soul

low surge
#

Ramb was just theory bait duh

strange cloud
low surge
#

Toby dislikes your theories and yours specifically!!!!!!!!!

#

SHUT THE FUCK UUUUPPPPPP!!!!!!

strange cloud
#

The Mikes were about all those other theories

#

And not mine

sharp lodge
ripe harbor
#

I agree

#

though I didn't bring them up as directly because it doesn't quite seem like Eram was made with Kris' Dark Fountain

#

at the very least, the Shadow Mantle was taken before TV World was created. Though Dark Worlds are already kind of acausal

#

like how the chapter 4 Darkners for Susie's fountain already exist in the first sanctuary, just as statues.

rain lotus
#

kris' biggest outward facing issue is being british

low surge
#

Fatal flaw

rain lotus
#

my theory

sharp lodge
ripe harbor
#

realizing I might be too deep into ttrpgs with odd gay people that I forgot this might not be common knowledge 💀

#

it'd be a pretty good pun

#

though I think Wyrd is pronounced closer to 'word'

#

cognate with Urd / Urdr

crimson badger
#

although the old english one seems to be more on the u side

ripe harbor
#

how ||strange||...

crimson badger
#

||odd|| indeed

strange cloud
#

What a mystery….

#

Man…..

ripe harbor
#

saw someone reply to this with the comment that "Dess" short for December can also stand for "Destiny" and honestly?

#

let them cook

#

👀

#

thats one of those reads that I'm not staking high confidence in yet but. Check on it after the whole things done see how it plays out.

strange cloud
#

Uhhh… maybe?

ripe harbor
#

I dont think its particularly meaningful yet

#

but UT does fucked up things with names. I straight up don't believe 'Serial Murderer' was intentional, sorry

strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

I could see it as possibly true, if December Holiday ends up representing 'the way things have to be' as the knight or whatever

strange cloud
#

But it does go hard

ripe harbor
#

in the same way I doubt the Weird Route is named that after the old english word for fate

#

but idk. maybe it is.

ripe harbor
strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

not just a serial killer a serial murderer

#

my OC...... john killspeople....

strange cloud
#

Like Asriel wouldn’t make that?

ripe harbor
#

true.....

strange cloud
#

An unfortunate aspect of Asriel’s character that needs to be acknowledged to understand him

sour mesa
#

Dreemurr rearranging to Murderer feels appropriate for the initial Asgore reveal

strange cloud
#

Is that he would absolutely make a Jeff the killer OC

sour mesa
#

we've got Toriel warning about Asgore, Papyrus saying "oh I'm sure King Dreemurr will help"

#

and then the twist that nope they're the same guy

#

you're not getting help

strange cloud
#

Yah especially with how it’s an extremely weird spelling otherwise

#

As like, it’s just a misspelling of Dreemurr

#

The two rs really make me think it

#

Because like, the more natural spelling is Dreemure

#

It’s still phonetically dreamer while not reusing the same letter twice

sour mesa
#

Asriel->Serial isn't necessarily a "this is the source of the name," there's plenty of other reasons to propose

#

but i can at least imagine Toby thinking "huh that does rearrange to that"

#

"neat"

strange cloud
#

Yah

ripe harbor
#

Its a little alien to me but I don't tend to put a super huge amount of thought into character names when I make them

strange cloud
#

Oh same

ripe harbor
#

I never assumed Kris or Susie had particular reasons to their names

strange cloud
#

Most I do is name shit after stuff

ripe harbor
#

but idk Toby could be built different there I'd believe it

ripe harbor
ripe harbor
#

he killed those kids because his name was Murderer.....

sour mesa
#

actually if i really want to get speculative

#

i think it's most likely that Asgore and Toriel were named after Asriel

#

Which makes acronym puns on "Asriel Dreemurr" significantly more likely than if his name came second

rain lotus
#

it comes up during the beowulf curriculum i think

rain lotus
#

a kris is a sacred possessed dagger

ripe harbor
#

did he name Asriel after Ralsei, or did he change Ralse's spelling to add the I later when it was nearly a match?

ripe harbor
sour mesa
ripe harbor
#

why is ralsei named after the angel of death nails

crimson badger
#

obviously its because ralsei is the deltarune actually

rain lotus
#

no i am

#

bro isn't even real

low surge
ripe harbor
strange cloud
strange cloud
low surge
#

Lore accurate

#

I think we need to discuss if Divorce is an element in Deltarune and what its effects are

ripe harbor
ripe harbor
# low surge

Theres also Tenna's whole thing where he mirrors Asgore in some ways (only other character that calls Toriel 'Tori', I think, at least in DR) and also deals with fear of irrelevance and being discarded

#

(which ironically causes him to self isolate by driving all his workers away with his desperation)

#

probably similar to Asgore doubling down on his 'investigation' at the expense of his personal life

low surge
#

(Also old man yaoi)

ripe harbor
#

true

ripe harbor
#

Old Man Yaoi with rudy COULD fix Asgore, so we can conclude yaoi WOULD fix Tenna clue

low surge
ripe harbor
#

keep making those noses kiss

low surge
#

I do wonder though what that means for dear old dad if he keeps paralleling the very very super doomed people

ripe harbor
#

human soul trait thing

#

but because a lot of the major darkners so far parallel important adult characters (like Queen to Noelle being similar to her implied issues with her mom)

#

so

#

I want to see if Asgore's surrogate family in the flowers he literally talks to instead of real people mirror Toriel or Kris or whoever

#

Asriel

#

seems fun

ripe harbor
#

from either direction - I don't get the feeling he's aware of Kris' role in the conspiracy stuff

low surge
#

Yeah

ripe harbor
#

him finding out would very easily put him into conflict with the Knight

#

and uhhhhh

low surge
#

I think he’s involved in it but I doubt he knows the full scope

ripe harbor
#

you can hope the Tenna parallels only go so far nails

low surge
#

Tunnel visioned as he is on getting things back to the way they used to be, I can’t imagine a scenario where Asgore would willingly endanger Kris

#

It’s why I personally am banking on no Asgore boss fight, at least not of his own free will

ripe harbor
#

also would be a good plot beat to raise the stakes I think

#

Tenna was kind of the first main-story unskippable Darkner getting injured

#

Asgore getting seriously injured even in the Light World, after important plot stuff goes down? I could see it

low surge
#

Yeah

ripe harbor
#

probably not dead, but maybe worse than Berdly's optional arm thing

low surge
#

Berdly is the only case we’ve really seen of actual physical harm transferring to the Light World

#

I guess Noelle too with the thorn

#

But no way that isn’t set up to not appear again

ripe harbor
#

^

#

and so far its completely missable

low surge
#

And of course parallels to Undertale with Asgore only surviving in true pacifist

low surge
ripe harbor
#

Back when chapter 2 was released, that + the encounter with Spamton Neo changing the computer check text was stuff that got me 👀

#

because the implication for me, immediately, was like ok
burned arms and crashed computers are one thing

#

but whats the upper limit?

#

Fantastical things can happen in the dark worlds, and cause actual change in the Light World... thats big! thats scary!

#

The church kind of followed through on this, its completely trashed after your fight with the Titan

#

same with Tenna breaking ofc

crimson badger
#

this makes me feel that Asgore will Fall Down or near Fall Down after getting Swooned bad after attempting to be the cavalry for Kris

strange cloud
ripe harbor
low surge
#

I’m banking on Asgore v Knight

ripe harbor
#

it would go a long way to replenishing his critically low aura-supplies

low surge
#

I saw a neat art piece where like the knight impales Asgore as hes manic that he’s finally found Dess and like man that would go insane

low surge
#

Buy Asgore stocks now folks

ripe harbor
#

Me when the knight is about the start the roaring, the whole party lies defeated, they're laughing as they raise their knife - and from off-screen, a lone voice:
And don't forget me, your eggs-police chief!

low surge
#

I’m telling you

ripe harbor
#

Im interested to see how his arc goes emotionally

low surge
#

Absolutely

#

Asgore has always been one of my favorites

ripe harbor
#

because like: he is isolating himself, he refuses to let his case go, he thinks he can make it right if he just solves it

#

but he's right. He's one of the characters most trying to 'find her'

#

Is his desire to put his family back together by going back in the past any different from the idea that bringing Dess back will magically make everything good again?

#

Is it going to challenge Kris or Carol or whoevers choices?

low surge
#

So much of his character is rooted in the past, in events we never get to see. Which like sounds dumb because that’s all characters but for him the past is absolutely essential

strange cloud
#

Here’s my thing right, I feel like if he does find hard evidence of what happens to Dess, and does somehow convince Toriel

low surge
#

I do wonder

strange cloud
#

I feel like it’s key that the family remains broken

ripe harbor
#

ya

low surge
#

Police sacrifice of course could mean Undyne, but I mean Asgore was the police chief

#

Oh yeah even if he’s totally right about everything and Toriel at least forgives him they’re not getting back together

ripe harbor
#

(its for the same reason I don't think Dess, if she is the roaring knight, should go back to her old self completely, at least by the end of the game. It should stick with her if she even makes it out)

#

at least emotionally? She should be clearly affected by what happened: you can't just ignore and undo all that

crimson badger
#

irreversibly changed but capable of moving on is my happy ending headcanon

strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

bold but I respect it

crimson badger
#

or if she does go back she goes back and is teenage dess, age and memories from just before The Incident, stuck in a world she doesn't know, and with almost everyone having passed her by

ripe harbor
#

I could see the shadow crystals also giving her closure, but idk it that'll be happy ending or just 'she regains her identity and talks to Kris before dying as herself'

#

you know. like Mother 3.

crimson badger
#

there is no fix button for her

#

and like asriel

strange cloud
#

Oh yah even in my hypothetical “Dess comes back in the weird route” it should feel wrong and like something is bubbling you don’t quite know under the surface

low surge
#

Divorces don’t just come out of nowhere, and while I don’t remember if it’s ever described how Toriel and Asgore were in DR, if UT parallels apply they were basically perfect for each other. So whatever precipitated that falling out had to be bad and even if Toriel realizes “yeah Asgore wasn’t crazy he was just trying to help” noting is gonna undo that

strange cloud
#

If I were to give like, an actual reason

#

It’s because the weird route focuses so much on the idea of nostalgia and returning things to how they should be with Kris and Noelle, that it just kinda fits that idea that Dess is also “made how she should be”

#

Kris and Noelle have so much history that makes it kinda clear, they were always sorta, expected to get together you know?

#

The stuff about the Ferris wheel especially

ripe harbor
#

versus accepting the Knight as a person capable of new & worthwhile relationships? interesting

strange cloud
#

Ferris wheels mean romance in this game, and Kris and Noelle riding one as kids, especially one Noelle now looks back on as “forced” makes me feel like it was something that was always assumed was gonna happen eventually, if only for Dess’s disappearance

ripe harbor
#

I think theres something too in the way the Weird Route might be encouraging Noelle to be more like the Knight? If its the only way the bring Dess back (and wrongly) it could be following what Dess thinks would work (and then showing why it wouldn't, really)

strange cloud
#

And now, in the weird route, we’re continuing that relationship

#

By force

#

Ergo, the one thing that stopped them from that relationship, Dess’s disappearance, needs to be fixed first

#

That’s just the vibe though

crimson badger
#

its always the past, it feels so nice that its the past, haunting everyone, changing everyone

low surge
#

You’re cooking

#

Grade gourmet

strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

the past as a weight that determines your life and future

#

already they're all dealing with issues based on what they or other people assume 'should be' true. Desire to turn back the clock plays right into that

#

trapped by the shadow of the past, trapped by the shadow of prophecy, trapped by the expectations and people currently in your life

strange cloud
#

Also, this is more tenuous, the weird route already reduces characters to stock RPG roles

#

And like, Dess kinda is a damsel in distress

#

She’s the one also causing distress

#

But she’s also very much a character who in an otherwise stock story, is in need of saving

#

Like some kinda, cursed sister in dragon blazers

ripe harbor
#

forced to dragon blaze,

#

born to blaze my shitty teenage weed stash with my garage band

#

😔

crimson badger
#

born to deltarune, forced to dragon blaze

#

gaster crashout when instead of deltarune we recreate one of its derivatives

strange cloud
#

Turns out Gaster just really hates dragon blazers

crimson badger
#

he didn't like the changes made to lord of the hammer

ripe harbor
#

internets down in the town because he felt like he had to respond to Alphys' shitty video game forum takes

#

but forgot to swap his username

strange cloud
#

Lol

strange cloud
crimson badger
#

logged in as gaster, accidentally causes the prophecy, instead of astral projecting into library bird

ripe harbor
strange cloud
#

The weird route is like, a rejection of change

ripe harbor
#

not just re-interpretation of stories, but the way pretty much every piece of fiction in fiction is derivative

strange cloud
#

It’s doing so much to do nothing at all

#

Everything needs to stay stagnant, and the same, and frozen

ripe harbor
#

but its 'yours'

#

exerting control on a narrative by reducing it to stock paint-by-numbers tropes

crimson badger
# ripe harbor 'derivatives' and reinterpretation are another big, *big* theme I think is slept...

peeps seem to be more aware now that we're post anniversary stream era, can't help but feel DR will never be quite right to gaster because we're there making it ours either within the bounds, or breaking out of them, the original is still a derivation (which you can even argue on a meta point if you go through the memetic genealogy of "??? background psychogoop > fever dream > DR Proto > UT > DR > Us playing DR"), and any attempt to go back to it only creates a copy

#

to remember a memory is to necessarily overwrite it

ripe harbor
#

I'll even go further: I don't think the game even puts stock in the idea of 'originals'

#

its like everythings a copy, and then it doubles down on that not meaning it isn't 'real'?

#

I think about the Old Man a lot regarding that

#

How I didn't quite catch it at the time, but if Susie was trying to copy his letter in her version, he wrote it from the perspective of a bystander who knew Alvin's father but isn't him

#

How he never says he wrote Lord of the Hammer, how he never calls himself Gerson Boom, and the way the community at large treats him. Sometimes even inventing new special metaphysical categories for him!

crimson badger
#

there is an infinity of possibility literally trying and bubble out, you (the fiction), objectively, are not only not real, but one of infinity, but you still matter, because you matter to me, as do the other fictions that bubble out

ripe harbor
#

He's a copy. He's Gerson in wants, and how he acts, and what he knows: but he's a copy.

#

He's a Darkner, unambigiously.

crimson badger
#

I love the Old Man, the Knight clearly cherished him, and the Gerson that came out is not really the person that was there, but all the warm memories of the beloved teacher and writer + darkner memories

ripe harbor
#

but how do people develop themselves, anyway? Its all relationships and environment

crimson badger
#

so you're saying we put titans and titanspawn on pens until they stop being mean (only half joking)

ripe harbor
#

Memories = copies (or perceptions in general being 'copies' of the world) is someplace I could see it going

ripe harbor
crimson badger
#

hopefully

ripe harbor
#

I think a titanspawn thats just not mean would probably be a Darkner

#

but thats just speculation as to what's going on with all that

#

Titanspawn being little dark blobs without identity, Darkners being 'shadows' that definitely have an identity (and a specific role in the world, being patterned off / reflecting real objects)

crimson badger
#

like darkness coalescing into the memory of the world and the things in it and becoming distinct from the ink and from each other, stabilized by a fountain, and if not a fountain of pure dark, tinted by the engendering lightner's will

ripe harbor
#

And fears, worries, trauma, intrusive thoughts & all the rest can sneak into someones perception of the world unnoticed, and shape their memories

crimson badger
#

yes YES exactly

#

all the memories, and all the impressions

timber widget
#

Re persistent harm to darkners, it's interesting how the attack on Tenna translated to his screen being smashed and antenna broken

#

Wonder what that will mean for the pumpkin decoration

#

...Okay chances are it's just smashed. Forgot the worst thing that happens to Jackenstein is he falls and that those black puffballs aren't chasing you there

rain lotus
#

jackenstein unavoidable canon death

#

nightmare nightmare nightmare

strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

acting like she doesn't know

#

I liked this one

sage needle
#

I'm so glad that everyone is doing this type of joke they're so good

timber widget
#

🔁 the-knife-consumer

genuinely I still think "the deal was made with tenna ch1" is the funniest possible theory. the knight is hovering ominously in the living room issuing threats to an inanimate tv. the TV is playing late night infomercials. kris is on the couch steadily working their way through the whole pie while occasionally offering a quick "yeah what they said" to try to back the knight up

skryle

tv: just happy to be involved

-# #deltarune #op i cackle and lock in #the roaring knight #kris dreemurr #my art #fanart #crack #this is the only theory everyone please leave

ripe harbor
#

it def was

#

what else explains Kris putting the plug back in, in the middle of the night?

restive comet
#

I find it funny that The Roaring Knight has an upside down pyramid for an ass

south flume
crimson badger
crimson badger
#

feels like a false positive but also the idea of an unfathomably strong spell in a dark world causing something akin to a localized ice age for a short period

#

and the jumbling of future and past, and the possibility of the listed events being in opposite order of description

#

brain keeps getting snagged here but I can't see much coming from this (other than reinforcing Dark with Deep with Water + The Roaring)

#

it doesn't feel like even if it was something it'd have much information to reveal/contextualize and yet

ripe harbor
# crimson badger this

I think its probably describing broadly, and vaguely enough to not specifically say much, the Roaring

#

theres already very, very strong evidence for lots of ice coming up

crimson badger
#

yeah, its just that my brain feels snagged on it as if there was more but that's all I can resolve

ripe harbor
#

you can read into 'dinosaurs' as referring to Susie if you want. but theres nothing particularly pointing to that, besides the other two statements seeming to relate to the main plot (so Dinosaurs still 'being there' might as well)

#

besides lizard-people existing at all being why he probably says "wait nvm theres still dinosaurs."

#

I think the order of events / time being mixed up is probably connected to all the other things that get mixed up or rearranged

#

like Spamton quoting UNUSUED in his shop, the Forgotten Man is taking information from elsewhere

timber widget
#

Chapter 5 there's just jarringly a photorealistic t-rex like in Mario Odyssey

rain lotus
#

Yum

scarlet wadi
ripe harbor
#

saw someone drop their take that chapter 4 had the worst music the other day and my immediate thought was "but guardian tho"

#

SUCH a banger

inland hare
#

I think they should be put to death for badmouthing Sanctuary

ripe harbor
#

also true

#

they specifically said only third sanctuary was alright lol

#

but you need the build up! the later song's payoffs work because they were set up!

#

Guardian is better because you had Ever Higher, Crumbling Tower, and Sanctuary to cue up the dunk!

sharp lodge
#

absolutely! those songs build on each other in a way that's really cool!

ripe harbor
#

I'm also a big fan of the everpresent bell-ringing in chapter 4

#

Dark Sanctuary, Crumbling Tower (and I think Guardian?), Hammer of Justice- lots of ringing

#

which makes sense. Its a church lol.

#

but I like how they rachet up in intensity for the climactic songs, really feels like its do-or-die

#

I dont think I could pick worst chapter for music either btw

#

it'd be like picking 'worst gourmet meal' man idk. Its all tasty.

#

I might've said 3 right after playing it, but its grown on me a lot after I learned just how many ways Tenna's theme gets mixed around and re-used.

crimson badger
#

if you were forced to run the osts tournament style there'd be a bunch of "oh but THIS track is in there dude", been there when me and some other peeps had to trim down tracks to rec a friend with

ripe harbor
#

ya

#

like I'm not a huge fan of the start of Chapter 2, but

#

I can't give an unbiased opinion on the latter half

#

(which includes Pandora Palace! underrated song.)

#

I didn't like Black Knife at first

#

but after a couple hours versus the pre-nerf knight it starts to become an old friend

low surge
#

Chapter 4 has some of the best music

#

Genuinely got goosebumps first time listening to dark sanctuary it’s so good man

strange cloud
crimson badger
#

the whole of the titan carveout in the OST is chefkiss

crystal shale
#

Playing 3+4 completely blind was an expirience

ripe harbor
crimson badger
#

negative eyesight

crystal shale
#

Skill

ripe harbor
#

the SOUL knows where it is at all times by subtracting where it is from where it isn't

#

if Sword = there, then don't

ripe harbor
#

power of yaoi....

#

(||theres a more serious discussion here about sidelining of women in fandom but my hot take is the work itself is partially to blame there. Theres like 3 female darkners with any relevance, period.||)

#

the girls come back in the main plot though, with the holidays + main 4

ripe harbor
#

funniest part of Suselle is that Noelle is honestly a little scarier than Susie.

#

maybe more than a little

#

and shes still the one that says "ehrm.... excheese me?". thats depth.

strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

Kris Dreemurr Misogyny theory?!?

#

even the water spirits forced to cover up their bodies as if theres something wrong with them

strange cloud
clear frost
#

WHY MUST YAOI OVERTAKE

#

god i hate fandom misogyny i just want my yuri

sour mesa
#

do you want a historical explanation regarding the specific history of Ao3 and the retreat of m/m slash to fanfiction sites

clear frost
#

fuck it why not

sour mesa
#

m/m slash was subject to more scrutiny because penetration was a prominent "we gotta clamp down on that" for censorship, so dedicated fanfiction sites formed stronger m/m communities. femslash didn't draw fire in quite the same way, so they didn't get herded in as tightly

I'd also suggest that using Ao3 as a proxy for fandom as a whole is like, using the SCP wiki as a proxy for Weird Fiction writing communitiesin general. it's a major community for it but it still has its own specific site culture instead of being a perfect representative of the whole

ripe harbor
#

I wonder how much lower Ralsei / Susie is compared to her other ships

#

obviously it would be lower, but is it going to be moderately or extremely outpaced

ripe harbor
sour mesa
#

i'm getting 115 works in Ralsei/Susie

ripe harbor
#

Asgore as ch. 5s main boss(?) means there won't be another female 'ruler' I think. Hard to imagine chapter 6 or whenever the shelter is as having one in the first place.

ripe harbor
#

I dont know if the minor canon support it gets helps or hinders

sour mesa
ripe harbor
#

depends on if shes the Knight

#

I don't see the Knight as really being able to talk tbh

#

whatever it was doing in chapter 4 almost-counted, I guess?

#

but more involved than that, not sure

strange cloud
#

It’s gonna get massively outpaced no matter what

ripe harbor
#

yeah and I get why. Her others are good

#

I personally think its probably Ralseis best ship

#

but not Susies. Get that goat boy some more friends

sour mesa
ripe harbor
#

thats not a real ship thats a demon walking among the righteous

#

thats evil

strange cloud
#

Art, fanfic, anything

#

I’ve only seen Susie berdly in the context of a joke

ripe harbor
#

I have unironically seen more serious Ralsei / Berdly shippers and I don't know if they have any dialogue or lines about each other

zenith iron
#

krispy chicken has legs but any other berdly ship actually just feels Wrong

strange cloud
#

I think berdly calls him Kris’s lackey once

zenith iron
#

(kris and berdly feels wrong but in a funny way)

ripe harbor
#

true and true

#

maybe its best for ralsei to not be in a relationship until he works on those self-esteem issues

manic parrot
#

something something "how can i love you when you don't love yourself"

ripe harbor
#

it would just be disastrous for him to only feel valuable in service to someone else

#

he needs to go down the plushie path & get more selfish, unironically

low surge
#

5’1”😭 😭 😭

#

Bro is CHOPPED

strange cloud
#

Kris is actually working with the knight for a dragonball wish to become taller

#

Not by much

#

Just to show that they’re still growing

low surge
#

Only lightner shorter is Alphys watch Temmie has freakishly long legs

ripe harbor
#

no shot ralsei is 5'11

#

I simply do not believe it. He's shorter than Kris textually.

#

and taller than them visually. clue Tony Trick....

restive comet
ripe harbor
#

ohhhhhhh

amber jolt
#

imagine how tall tenna is

#

BECAUSE I AM

#

WAHOOOOO

ripe harbor
#

in my heart, shorter than Spamton Neo. idc what the pixels say 😤

#

built like a brick shithouse though. absolute unit of a TV.

rain lotus
#

Like an inch of fluff

sharp lodge
strange cloud
strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

(from @goldensflowers)

crimson badger
ripe harbor
#

lotsa bangers

strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

one of transmasc spamton's strongest soldiers

#

🫡

timber widget
strange cloud
#

I really love this human Noelle

#

It reminds me a lot of Goomy’s Noelle

ripe harbor
#

Spamton 10 seconds before Chara gets his ass:

rain lotus
#

why would chara make him do that

low surge
#

Why would chara make me shoot a big rainbow laser beam to spend just one more second with them

crimson badger
#

because I also wanted to spend just one more second with them

inland hare
#

I did it for the love of the game

#

You know

#

I always found it deeply ironic

#

That pretty much the only reason why you would do the genocide route

#

Is out of genuine love for the game

restive comet
#

I think it was more to have a bad ending with actual repercussions

ripe harbor
#

Ive seen discussion about whether putting really cool unique bossfights in geno undercuts its message

rain lotus
#

its message was dont kill people

rain barn
ripe harbor
#

mmm I can see that yeah, I don't have a stance on it either way

#

there is an interesting thing I noticed for DR where a lot of the community doesn't seem to think Weird Route should be 'rewarded' in some way?

#

or that you should be 'punished' for doing it?

sharp lodge
#

i think it'll have consequences but they may not apply to us

#

but instead to kris

ripe harbor
#

yeah I dont think it needs to wag its finger at the player to still be horror

#

It can get you what you want and the message can still be 'this is horrific'.

#

I've just seen quite a few people act like they'll be mad if it leads to anything at all that you couldn't achieve better in the normal route

inland hare
#

I think the story only works if Weird Route indeed can achieve a kind of freedom that you can't in the normal route haha

#

whatever that may be

#

but as you certainly know

#

fate isn't actually a cage

ripe harbor
#

mhm

#

its just sometimes unpopular because it seems like its not uncommon for people to think getting something like that would be 'rewarding' a player for doing weird route

#

imo, it doesn't do much good to flatten media into moral judgements like that

inland hare
#

as jadis discourse tells you

#

very few people can comport with immutability of fate

#

and its relation to moral judgment

ripe harbor
#

it is fucked up, tbf

inland hare
#

indeed

ripe harbor
#

a lot of effort has been put into Deltarune of setting up the importance and unbreakability of the prophecy- I don't think it could ever be as simple as 'it actually was never real / already broken' and still be satisfying

#

which doesn't bode well for breaking it on the main path, especially when its underlined often that the weird route is deviating

inland hare
#

yeah

#

way I see it

#

normal route won't be able to break the prophecy

#

but may be able to allow for enough uncertainty that multiple interpretations are possible

#

and certainly the prophecy no longer becomes accurate past the events that it predicts

#

the prophecy predicted that the Black Knight would destroy Tenna

#

but didn't predict that others you saved would band together to save Tenna in turn after his destruction

#

prophecy leaves a lot of blank spaces that you can fill out if you are capable of seeing the negative spaces

#

weird route might be able to deviate completely from the prophecy

#

but at such a terrible cost that it might've been preferable to complete the prophecy

ripe harbor
#

I'm interested in how the prophecy is currently presented less as something that forces characters to act certain ways,

#

and more something that happens because all the people involved are themselves

#

Their actions are fated because they would make those choices

inland hare
#

i mean there are certain evidence that it does skew the odds in a certain way

ripe harbor
#

but I think you mentioend GoW Fates last time so you get the idea lol

ripe harbor
inland hare
#

like Seam agrees to a card game over his shop

#

because he knows he's never going to lose (probably because he's fated to be the shopkeeper)

ripe harbor
#

at the same time, the game is 'fine' with you as the soul giving up, even though that breaks prophecy

#

I'm not sure how much it acts as insurance against bad endings for the party

#

or if its only describing what will happen that doesnt reach a bad end

inland hare
#

my guess

#

bad ending will be inevitable

#

at least for the first playthrough

#

unless you are the kind of weirdo who does weird route for the first playthrough hak hak hak

ripe harbor
#

about the choice bit I'm more talking about how Kris + the Knight + Tenna played out their prophecized roles in chapter 3

#

most of the decisions and reasons they did what they were all doing spring from understandable motivations-

#

its just collectively it leads to The Lord of Screens getting Cleaved

#

I guess what I'm saying its the prophecized actions aren't outside of the characters as an imposing force. Often they 'choose' their fate, even if they wouldn't and would never have chosen anything else.

#

meanwhile Seam is playing strip poker, so idk lmao

strange cloud
inland hare
#

Neutral ending the

#

Like in original Ut

strange cloud
#

Thing is neutral, isn’t actually a bad end really

#

It’s unsatisfying yah but objectively it’s just, alright

#

Obviously it depends on what you get

#

But like, undertale definitely pushes you towards pacifist on your first time

#

It’s not like how it’s being set up in Deltarune where it’s an inevitable tragedy which cannot be avoided

inland hare
#

Yeah I meant more neutral ending

#

An unsatisfying, open ended ending

sharp lodge
ripe harbor
#

at least with the current set-up, I'd buy the prophecy getting broken on normal but it would need to really work for it. Right now it seems like it will be 'true-but-vague'.

#

Does seem like at least part of the motivation for the weird route is going to be preventing something that players would not generally want to have happen, that occurs in other routes

#

and its definitely not uncommon in jrpgs for party member death

sharp lodge
ripe harbor
#

Gerson Was Catholic Theory:

ripe harbor
strange cloud
low surge
#

Chatroom I’m gonna dress as Kris for Halloween should I do brown shoes or black

low surge
# ripe harbor

Crazy how Toby just made a cognitohazard that is invading peoples dreams and now waking lives

strange cloud
#

Better contrast with the pants

inland hare
#

Whose friend is FRIEND

strange cloud
#

Everyone’s friend

#

They’re your humble servant

low surge
sour mesa
#

chara is "Frisk said it would be mad funny"

rain lotus
#

why would frisk make me do this

crimson badger
#

Frisk coughs and moves the pointer from ACT to FIGHT while letting out a sly grin

ripe harbor
#

like One Piece

#

(Its father, of course, being Wing D. Gaster)

strange cloud
#

Man, it kinda sucks when an analysis of Deltarune that I agree with for the most part becomes the new big analysis that analyzing the same thing from a different angle is now seen as ignoring that analysis

#

(Aka just because the weird route can be analyzed through the angle of the horror of heteronormativity doesn’t mean that’s the only thing you can talk about it or can’t disagree with that reading)

timber widget
#

Oof, yeah

ripe harbor
#

I like it as a read & think its got some very interesting things to say, though I wish I saw more combined reads that take the prophecy-breaking elements into account

#

not even in a 'oh people aren't talking about the real juicy stuff way'. I just want to see peoples thoughts on why the heteronormativity-horror path would also (seemingly) be the fate breaking one & if theres any sort of broader point that connects those two parts, becuase I don't feel super confident in my own thoughts there atm.

#

(though many of the takes I've seen with that read think the Weird Route is the 'original' prophecy, so I don't blame them - they don't think its a fate breaking path.)

timber widget
#

Quelle surprise, fiction can mean multiple things

ripe harbor
#

True, but I'd just want to personally connect it more directly to the motive or specific elements of the Weird Route

timber widget
#

(this was not aimed at you btw, rather the people insisting on that one reading on the route to the exclusion of others)

ripe harbor
#

oh fair lol

#

I'm being careful with wording because there has been. a lot of discourse about this.

timber widget
#

I'm just not in big fandom spaces at all

#

I'm like, here, and with my friends in another server

ripe harbor
#

most of the time I just check artists, but things like the 10th got me a bit more active

timber widget
#

Fair

ripe harbor
#

luckily I waited like two months to actually play 3+4 without engaging with any fan spaces so I dodged the worst of it(?)

#

heard there was a patch and some SA-related read drama

timber widget
#

Oh yeah probably regarding an earlier version of the weird chapter 4 scene

#

Wherein (weird) ||instead of the red cracks we have now, when equipping Noelle with the thorn, the screen went black to a red rose, withering||

ripe harbor
#

mhm

lusty cypress
#

🔁 existencebringsonlypain

deltarune weird route crackfic where noelle, horrified, tells kris to tell her it didn't happen, it didn't snow, but kris forgets the past tense of snow and the soul ends up having them say "it snew" and then the colors return to normal instantly and noelle's like "what" and the soul's options are "what" and "what" and either option you pick the snowgrave route is aborted

existencebringsonlypain

🔉

-# #yea that noelle sprite is. fine #prolly slightly inaccurate to ingame in terms of the choicers cuz I had to make those myself. but. eh #nutdealer posting #gif is non-looping #reblog #deltarune chapter 4 spoilers #deltarune #it snew

lusty cypress
#

hEy_kRis_!

dId_yOu_kNow_?

tHeres_a_SPECIL_SECRIT_wAy_to_bRing_sOmeone_bAck_eVen_fRom_tHe_dEepest_dArk_!

aLl_yOu_gOtta_dO_iS_cOver_EvERYTHING_iN_dArkness_!

tHen_yOu_cAn_fInd_tHem_aNd_fIx_tHem_!

bUt_dOnt_tEll_aNyone_oKay_???

yOu_tRust_mE_rIght_????

iM_yOure_bEst_FRIEND

D_E_S_S

-# #leif draws #deltarune #kris dreemurr #deltarune spoilers #kris deltarune #fanart #dess holiday #december holiday #friend deltarune #this is how The Knight Is FRIEND theorists can still win

amber jolt
#

ooh

ripe harbor
ripe harbor
# ripe harbor ~~its giving Alan Wake?~~

"Oh, hush. There's still hope. Cauldron Lake is a special place. Here, you have the power to change things. She wanted you to write. I will tell you what to do. You can write her back. The story will come true and all will be well again." - ???, to Alan Wake

#

I could honestly see Gaster's whole situation similar to Thomas Zane's

#

a 'creative' who sought to use a weird psycho-reactive meta-fictional anomaly, who ends up ||writing a specific, powerful, final story as a hail-mary to keep the world from being subsumed by by nightmares after they specifically meet a bad end & get semi-erased.||

#

In Deltarune's case, that would be the prophecy

sharp lodge
strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

lowkey I sort of suspect that Catty getting called a copycat or someone who's always copying (Bratty, usually)
every chapter, with that exact word
might be foreshadowing

#

its kind of a weird thing to bring up that consistently (also Bratty's def gay for her)

#

just gotta put a pin in copies and their relationship or lack of one to cats for now, I guess

#

its a special tool that might help us later

crystal shale
#

Neverending Night continues to hit different

#

idk why but the song makes me feel something

sharp lodge
velvet olive
ripe harbor
#

I like the inclusion of the fire extinguisher from chapter 4

#

Something that stands out about how Tenna talks about Spamton in the manhole dungeon is that he directly quotes Spamton in this line.
Whether you believe Spamton was being genuine or deceiving Tenna here, telling him to wait gives the implication that he was going to come right back after he took the phone call.
"Then he suddenly said, 'I'm gonna answer the phone, so hang on a minute'?!"
Evil for putting this detail in

low surge
#

Hey scout why didn’t you tell me you had a YouTube channel

ripe harbor
#

I think the most FRIEND-pilled take I have, sincerely, is that I think its possibly the Spooky Voice on the phone with Kris in chapter 4.

#

Carol with a voice changer or Mysterious Shadow Entity, call it

#

its either using the Giygas static sfx (that Gaster uses too) because its a good sound effect or because the caller is In Hell. & right now it could be either lol.

timber widget
#

I just don't see the phone voice being a darkner, with how well Kris' phone works to call home while in the dark

ripe harbor
#

thats actually an element that makes me suspect the call possibly being related to dark worlds

#

Kris phone everywhere in the dark worlds plays the 'garbage noise' smile.ogg file, which contextually seems to also be related to how Spamton got into contact with his mysterious phone benefactor

#

(at least its the most prominent phone-related noise that could be called 'Unintelligible Laughter', given that the file is literally an edited laugh sfx)

#

and theres this tertiary static thing that gets related to strange faces and speakers in the dark - Gaster has the Giygas static, Friend appears in 'Airwaves', the Shadow Mantle Holder & the Glaceir Sweepstakes foreshadowing appear only after choppy static

#

theres even a bit in Crumbling Tower where the music cuts out for a sec to make a channel changing noise

#

So I'm not sure their phone isnt working in the dark so much as picking up on something else, like maybe theres an interaction between wave transmission and the Dark or something (possibly why the internet in town is out?)

#

and from there I'd buy it as maybe a way for that something else to interact with the Light World from the Dark. maybe.

#

what gets me more than almost anything is how perfectly timed the phone call in Chapter 4 is. Right as they're about to leave, immediately into voice after one ring, without them answering?

#

Immediately phrased like a warning or a reminder?

low surge
#

Ceroba I love you but || your boss fight pmo so bad ||

ripe harbor
#

It could just be dramatic timing & Carol is doing some villainous aurafarming.... or Kris is being watched by something or someone. And its not like the Dark World they just made in their house didn't involve a suspicious unseen speaker who appears to have existed and interacted with multiple Dark Worlds, with specific knowledge of Kris

ripe harbor
ripe harbor
low surge
ripe harbor
#

rip

ripe harbor
#

so I don't know what to think. Carol with Voice Changer seems like it works well enough, yeah.

but I feel like I can't rule out something weirder. maybe like 20-30% chance theres some magical phone stuff going on.

ripe harbor
low surge
#

Okay just finished it actually

#

If you haven’t played UTY seriously go do that was fantastic

#

Beautiful little game

#

It’s canon to me

sharp lodge
rain lotus
#

i don't even KNOW how i found undertale back when i was 14

#

i didn't watch youtubers i only played ONE game i had no social media

serene loom
#

i followed toby on tumblr bc of homestuck and i played the original demo when he first posted it

sour mesa
#

when did awkwardzombie post it...

#

okay i played the demo September 2015

#

and then played the full game a little later

strange cloud
#

I think I found undertale via the YouTubers who did letsplays of it

#

So like, a very common story

sharp lodge
#

i don't remember
that might have been how i found out

sour mesa
#

i do wonder how things would be different if the initial reception had been slightly different
(<----This user still chafes against the common framing of Undertale as having three routes)

low surge
#

I heard of it through some friends from school. A group of us played it together and voice acted various characters

strange cloud
#

That’s awesome

crimson badger
#

I got caught in the big wave but, I think some peeps in the bay12 forums were talking about the KS demo? But I didn't look further into it than that back then

ripe harbor
#

Lightners be like "Why am I facing all my deepest traumas 😭" buddy YOU made the Dark World

ripe harbor
strange cloud
strange cloud
#

Wait, why are the Bibles my dad gave me turning into a rough approximation for a closet?

rain lotus
#

my dark world would suck i throw so much stuff i care for out yet keep so much garbage

#

but I also would not be able to open a dark fountain

strange cloud
#

I could

low surge
strange cloud
#

Just a hundred tiny kings

#

All resentful and angry

ripe harbor
#

unpainted models would give you some yume nikki shit imo

#

imagining something like Ultrakill's mannequinns

serene loom
#

fakes not because they lost their color but because they were never given any

ripe harbor
#

and none of them move while you're watching but then you hear something scuttling in the shadows after you walk deep enough into the creepy statue room

ripe harbor
#

(they might still beat the shit out of you)

low surge
#

My warhammer figurines facing off against my liquor cabinet

strange cloud
#

You’re like the anti Kris

#

You refuse to color in copies

#

They will stay monochrome

rain lotus
sour mesa
#

Has anyone made a Noelle version of this

ripe harbor
#

I got this

low surge
strange cloud
#

Nah they’d love warhammer

low surge
#

What faction would everyone play

#

Susie is Tyranids for sure

sharp lodge
#

i kinda think noelle gets into a chaos faction
not sure which one

ripe harbor
#

Berdly gets into one of the Tzeentch ones no question

low surge
strange cloud
#

Kris plays whatever Berdly hates playing against the most that edition

rain lotus
#

kris doesn't even play they just think about playing

strange cloud
delicate cave
#

Khorne is death metal, Slaanesh is hot and emo, Nurgle would be maximum gross and sludge, Tzeentch fits her "just break the game" instincts a bit.

delicate cave
#

Kris's army is inevitably defined in reference to Asriel's extremely extra anime army. Either they get hand me downs, imitate Asriel, or pick something as different as possible

ripe harbor
#

anything that relies on '''rng''' to win (unfair, basically cheating)

#

(this is different from Smartgenius Braingamers who use Tactical Probability though.)

#

Though I actually think Noelle would play Eldar or Tau

#

I feel like she would like the grosser and more horrific factions but not be brave enough to lean into it while playing

low surge
#

Tau feels Berdly coded

#

Smart, mecha inspired, smug sense of superiority

ripe harbor
#

slightly weebish

low surge
#

Noelle would do Eldar but want a forge world chaos demon army with the real nasty looking ones

#

Or night lords

ripe harbor
#

Night Lords feels Kris coded to me

#

I have seen darkness, witnessed it in my dreams. I am standing at the edge of a chasm. There is no escaping it, I know my fate. For it is the future and nothing can prevent it coming to pass. So I step off and welcome the dark

#

and they're very edgy

#

but I wonder if their feelings on humanity would push them away from Imperium stuff

#

(though its not like the Space Marines are human)

strange cloud
#

New favorite genocide sans headcanon

#

Oh it just

#

Deleted the link when it embedded

strange cloud
low surge
#

Kris plays Leagues of Votann because they’re short

low surge
#

Really though I could see them playing Orks, I think they’d enjoy the sort of wild and free nature they have, plus they’d absolutely do some crazy scratch-bashing with random junk and create a horrible amalgam darkner as a result

serene loom
#

okay but consider the master play

#

showing up with a full and correct WHF army even though nobody else in town even plays

#

kris then spends six hours trying to ragebait berdly into playing anyway by insisting its the same thing

low surge
#

This had occurred to me, I’m glad I’m not alone

#

They would do that

#

“Just let me proxy it for Eldar bro”

serene loom
#

not even that

#

straight up "kris theyre different games!" "but its warhammer though theyre literally the same"

low surge
#

Everyone gets into fantasy because of this, Kris then comes with an Eldar army during fantasy day

lusty cypress
#

Eldritchrune - Meeting Gerson

1 | 2

Story Setup
Eldritchrune Masterpost

While making their way through a maze of books, Kris and Susie are separated from the rest of the Fun Gang by a mysterious figure! Even more mysterious...it's the first other human Kris has come across in the Dark World! He seems to have his own ways of dealing with their environment...

Yaaay, since this won the last poll, the meeting Gerson scene is finally here! Gotta love the coolest old man!

This is a two-parter, the second part will be up tomorrow!

Alt text for these pages is under the read more:

Page 1

Panel 1 - A closeup on a full bookcase, shrouded in shadow.

Panel 2 - The bookcase scatters into flames, cinders and sparks as Susie blasts through it with a massive breath of fire from her mouth.

Panel 3 - A wide overhead shot of the whole fun gang: Kris, Ralsei, Susie, Noelle, Berdly, and Cattington. The group walks through a massive maze of bookshelves and tall stone pillars. Kris lays on Susie’s back as she takes...

lusty cypress
#

Lol, out of everyone, Lancer is unchanged
He just has an uncanny ability to survive the Dark WOrld and remain silly

lusty cypress
lusty cypress
#

Some comics are bloodier, one has kris legs destroyed

low surge
#

Oh now this looks interesting

#

I’ll have to give these a read

ripe harbor
#

incredibly funny to me that Susie in this is some sort of demonic bloodbourne beastie but still has the personality of a cringe new-england teen

#

its also pretty funny how close this mirrors canon, kind of?

#

there is a mysterious shadow cult trying to breach darkness into the Light World, and suspicious pacts that Kris made in the past (possibly relating to their Soul and/or demons)

#

creative AU

lusty cypress
#

Oh sans in this au has suspicions about the demon cult, and papyrus is very interested in charms and wards

inland hare
#

I knew he was a cop

strange cloud
rain lotus
#

his lenses should be yellow and pink and the skull should be sans'd up

inland hare
sour mesa
ripe harbor
#

this ones my favorite

manic parrot
ripe harbor
#

This is gonna be used after the mandatory 'hang out with berdly' scene at the Festival trust 🙏

ripe harbor
delicate cave
manic parrot
sharp lodge
strange cloud
#

Chatroom

#

The fact that greenster kinda makes sense is starting to piss me off

#

I’m not supposed to take the “gaster will be green” theory seriously

velvet olive
#

what

sharp lodge
strange cloud
#

But essentially, it’s that a bunch of green shit is associated with Gaster

#

Just find this Twitter thread if you want more details

#

It’s a long one

manic parrot
#

i dunno seems pretty self-explanatory

#

sands is blue, paper is red

#

so green completes the triad

low surge
rain lotus
#

the theories aren't even theories anymore

ripe harbor
#

I'm kinda down with Greenster

ripe harbor
#

the theory is "most specific mentions of green work to foreshadow or parallel Gaster, especially in contexts related to the skeletons or Deltarune" I think

#

so its putting forward that when you read this,

#

its a reference to Gaster

rain lotus
#

this is dodging the important fact that kris eats crayons like me :DDDD

ripe harbor
#

Kris Ate Gaster (He's Eggs) theory?!?! clue

rain lotus
#

green eggs

       and
ripe harbor
#

for my money this is the most blatant "I know its a parallel to Gaster I just can't prove it"

#

you know,

#

I havent read that thread so idk if they mention it

ripe harbor
#

maybe its like a dark world / light world sort of thing

#

He's Greenster because he taught his chud Darkner son how to smoke the marijuana cigarette

lusty cypress
crimson badger
#

I love how the motion lines also make it seem like Susie can't tell but has now been completely overwhelmed

serene loom
#

absolutely flabbergasted

manic parrot
#

flabbergastered

ripe harbor
#

ideal Asriel design imo

#

its quite simply peak

#

what the

#

Jackenstein house has a Throne of the Gods?

#

???

#

Who would notice this bit in gameplay lmao

timber widget
#

Holy crap lmao

low surge
manic parrot
#

clue...

low surge
#

(Originally from @charcoyours)
Kris with Dess knight in the chp 3 darkworld: Haha hey remember how fractured and fucked up your family is? remember dess? Isnt it so cool how youll never be loved back

Dess with Kris knight in the chp 3 darkworld :

ripe harbor
#

tbh this is nearly Kris in the chapter 3 darkworld already

#

I'm ride-or-die that this screen is the Upstairs Mirror

#

and you know you got the

#

god the shelter is going to be so fucked up

#

I hope it straight up pulls some yume nikki visuals out

low surge
#

I’m a scardey little bitch but I would looooove if the shelter was just straight up as close to a horror game as possible

sharp lodge
#

idk why it's not embedding
anyway it's 3 cat gifs made to look like friend

ripe harbor
#

too fat in the fist one
so full of LOST CHILDREN yum!

#

EVIL and intimidating cat:

#

I still wonder if it means anything that the song that plays when you first encounter it is a math pun(?)

#

The digital root of a natural number is the single-digit value obtained by an iterative process of summing digits, on each iteration using the result from the previous iteration to compute a digit sum.

#

adding together digits in a way that ultimately removes information

#

and the second time this track plays is in a video game, with the association of 'bits' as small units of information

#

or its association with glitches and bugs in coding, from Noelle's blog & its (probable) connection to spamton, as well as literally appearing in the 'Junk Data' basement

#

lots of data corruption

crimson badger
#

doing something over and over again, trying to add or resolve information, until only a line of ones/a fully black sketch remains (you draw a tree over it).

ripe harbor
ripe harbor
#

I wonder if its the representation of all of this lost info, kind of collectively

#

or maybe just something like a glitch / bug in 'DELTARUNE' ie: Gaster's 'creation'

#

its got some connection to 'small bits of things' and 'glitched code' and 'things unwanted' (through the Oddcontroller and Spamton / PinkYellow stuff)

low surge
# ripe harbor

Honestly tho I hope we get something like this in the shelter itself that would be so fucked

ripe harbor
#

so....
collective small bits of unwanted information? Literally Noise, in the signal processing sense? Something unexpected, the error when you try and trace something and mess up?

#

its super connected to wavelengths, though sometimes only in cut content

#

(If people drawing it with a pointy tail can use cut graphics though so can I 😈)

crimson badger
#

makes me feel like the unused pointed tail was meant to be unused.

crimson badger
ripe harbor
#

unused spamton attack - hands make flowing wave patterns
Switch Airwaves minigame - background is literally textbook wave interference gif, you block mismatching waves of linked-circles
PC Airwaves minigame - Only shows up with the sides of the box get squiggly / you get enough points, needs to be making a wave.
Chapter 4 - only visible in profile as the soundwave passes over it

#

not even counting the 'garbage noise' connection, where its implied to speak garbled data you can just pick up ambiently with a phone - its in the static. Its in the 'noise'.

ripe harbor
#

something something 'memories of events are always just copies of what actually happened' idk

#

but investing enough in copies makes them real(?)

#

maybe its like

#

something born from echoes, or the bits 'put out there' whenever creative work is made

#

like this scene,

#

you can play a melody, but after its put out into the world and bounces around, the sound gets more & more distorted

#

eventually its unrecognizable. Information is lost, even though (maybe even because!) more has been added. It can't be retrieved, its drowned out.

#

but thats just vibes for me idk if I'm onto anything or if Toby Meant All That or whatever

#

Jevil 'repeating' his words, Spamton stealing quoting from elsewhere, Mantle / ERAM as 'the reflection' or nightmare 'mirrored', Old Man / Gerson being a copy of someone who was once alive....

#

theres something!

#

Where do forgotten things go?

crimson badger
#

gensou wrong game

#

might tie into the "darkners embody and personify the memory of the world when differentiating from Dark" angle, esp with how the main plot revolves around a past bursting out of the depths with/and all those left behind by it

#

like nothing being truly forgotten, or washed away, always lying there, until something sets it off and its strongest elements shoot back into the surface

amber jolt
ripe harbor
#

Or maybe cosmic mike-rowave radiation?

velvet olive
ripe harbor
#

I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the Physics-Science inspiration for Dark Worlds & Gaster is based on Dark Matter / Energy

#

so I could see the static or snow bits pulling on CMB Radiation

crimson badger
#

that makes it extra funny that we're asserting that the metaphysical voice running the Deltarune experiment has to be Gaster even if we don't really know

#

we know something's going on behind the scenes that are behind the scenes, but we don't quite know what and we have tentative characters to explain this hole in the narrative

ripe harbor
#

everyone has different ideas about what it even means for Gaster to be involved in an experiment too lol

#

I've seen everything from "He's just recording a pre-existing prophecy" to "He literally made the Deltarune Universe"

#

but definitely the room_gaster Undertale thing is him, which is more what I mean with the physics element

#

The DR Darkness hasn't really been presented as scientifically, I think

#

"What if it could get Darker? Darker than Dark." versus "PHOTON READINGS NEGATIVE"

sour mesa
#

nobody's been really dealing with the science side of things at all iirc

ripe harbor
#

I think it'll for sure come back with the shelter

sour mesa
#

alphys is a teacher not the royal scientist, no labs yet

sour mesa
crimson badger
#

he really is the

#

character

ripe harbor
#

in some ways I think less than he used to be

#

I never was confident in him as the strange someone who met Jevil or especially Spamton, mostly for motive reasons

#

but even then I was like "Well theres not really anyone else, and Toby definitely knew that putting in the weird sound from room_gaster would make people think its Gaster, so if its anyone its probably Gaster?"

#

now the Knight, Carol & Co, and FRIEND give you other options for randomly assigning plot elements to theories about mysterious figures

crimson badger
#

yeah

ripe harbor
#

I'm primed to be sympathetic towards him at least

#

being shattered across time and space seems like it wouldn't be fun

#

at the same time, strange boat-people giving cryptic forewarnings are usually pretty trustworthy about this sort of thing

crimson badger
#

yeah

#

Unrelated, but I am trying to confirm something because I can't find alt sources and I don't wanna set up decomp for just one thing
but part of me wants to look closer at the CORE from UT, mainly from an interpretation of "hardmode monsters appear [idealized, fantasized variants]" and "one of the overworld sprites is literally called darknesstotem" but it feels like a too good to be true sitch (most likely a false positive coming from proto DR ideas rather than "Gaster Literally Created a Dark World to Power the Underworld and Then Fell Into the Deep Dark")

sour mesa
#

oooh

ripe harbor
#

Darkness Totem is real but there is a brighter version just called totem, I think

crimson badger
#

accursed manual lighting

ripe harbor
#

there definitely is quite a few stuff you could tie to Deltarune though

#

both obvious

#

and maybe a touch more speculative

#

I've seen people point out those colors in the tubes as relating to Kris, Noelle, and Susie. Idk if I buy it.

#

🤷

crimson badger
#

what if deltarune is gaster making sure the CORE is stable

ripe harbor
#

I think the Final Froggits do have a Deltarune on them

#

hard to tell, theres some triangles and a three pattern

crimson badger
#

and the cross eyes

sour mesa
ripe harbor
#

what the hell toby

#

this one is scary!

sour mesa
#

yoooo

ripe harbor
#

reminds me a bit of the Asriel concept art

#

definitely a bit of a different style from what the final game went with

ripe harbor
# ripe harbor

(this ones wings are purple-pink, cyan, green, and yellow)

#

that one I could believe is intentional lol

#

because he's literally turned into the Deltarune shape too

crimson badger
#

and with the toby trademark "I'll just put a face here and here and here :)"

ripe harbor
#

probably nothing and won't ever come up in DR as a concept pants

crimson badger
#

I know its the background but the spooky froggits look like they fade more into the background which does trigger my darkness/bumpinthedark receptors

sharp lodge
sour mesa
#

Above the door is a stylized angel emblem and the pillars have triangles on them

#

forming a Delta Rune

ripe harbor
#

obv in UT its also the symbol of the Kingdom, but

#

metatextually its probably the symbol of the Kingdom because of the game-idea-concept 'Deltarune'

#

I dont even think the pillars are needed

#

so thats a big-ass Deltarune in the big 'creation' that Gaster built

#

ofc the Deltarune also just shows up everywhere in both games

#

Undyne the Undying, Asriel's boss form, Mettaton (And Spamton) Neo,

#

which is funny because its kind of unwieldy as a symbol.

ripe harbor
#

especially because pink isn't a spectral color - theres no pink wavelength in the light spectrum

#

its also why you see the same colors in bubbles or oil, its caused by wave interference of light through the material

#

so idk maybe thats why its those colors specifically. I'm just saying shit.

#

Tobias who perchance pondered as such:

manic parrot
dense cargo
#

"pathetic guy from deltarune" doesn't narrow it down much.

inland hare
#

The pathetic adult who doesn’t require love advice from a teenager

#

That should eliminate most of them

velvet olive
#

how are we defining "require"

inland hare
#

Asked for it

#

Clearly rouxls is in need of a love advice from a teenager but he has so far not asked for it

velvet olive
serene loom
#

its so funny that hes canonically very attractive, he's just also The Fucking Worst

ripe harbor
#

I have it on good authority his ass is small

#

but! you can be flat and attractive. good for him, good for him

ripe harbor
ripe harbor
#

hmm

#

refers to vague worldbuilding and past events in ominous ways
ends half their lines with dry, slow laughter
constantly asking open ended questions
generally hopeless
is Seam just a soulsborne npc

ripe harbor
#

"1998 New Years Special (Unaired)" - Mr. (Ant) Tenna's TV Time, Your House Productions (in partnership with BS Automobiles)

strange cloud
ripe harbor
strange cloud
ripe harbor
#

Gaster acting like his ass isn't the fakest mf on that sign

crimson badger
#

gaster is the whole line

ripe harbor
#

(from @ilikecanele)

#

They are just being petty because Ralsei never joined the moss gang

low surge
#

Chapter 7 will end with the fun gang sitting around a table enjoying a snack, Ralsei finally gives in and tries moss. He says it’s delicious. End credits roll

inland hare
timber widget
#

To save the worlds, there is only one way
Ralsei eats moss alongside the hay

crimson badger
#

ralsei_splat.png

ripe harbor
#

thats true Kris wouldn't let him eat the moss

timber widget
#

lmfao

ripe harbor
#

the beat-pause here is so good lmao