Undertale and Deltarune

[ripe harbor]

the voices talk pretty different

it would basically be as if Gaster had a Jekyll and Hyde thing going on

[crimson badger]

yeah, it is still a different voice (maybe even two voices) besides eggn'tman

[ripe harbor]

and its not like there's not a mysterious gaster-related but not-gaster entity in the storyline

Japanese text for the Shadow Mantle holder apperantly has it near-quote Gaster a few times

(from duxarcana: https://www.tumblr.com/duxarcana/789793468202549248/hi-im-sorry-if-this-has-already-been-asked-but?source=share)

[crimson badger]

then there'd be two gastern'ts roaming around with the holder and the forgotten man

[ripe harbor]

which isn't impossible, I guess

the Forgotten Man also speaks very differently to Gaster, lmao

though I think the thing that would get me beaten with rocks (deserved) if I suggested it is that

all this evidence, plus musical signs, plus cutscenes and room_gaster filenames....

[ripe harbor]

you are basically saying right here that is

which does sound exactly like a shitpost theory

[crimson badger]

why can't the mystery man shattered across time and space and being a big part of the secrethunting of the first game be straightforward

my brain's overheating

[ripe harbor]

hmm, three gasters, huh...

[crimson badger]

NO

[ripe harbor]

one does all the talking...

ones the muscles....

and one listens

you gotta have a Gaster that listens

||I'm just recreationally saying words here||

[crimson badger]

words open gates

[ripe harbor]

I think could be something like Gaster's reflection, or related to what happened when Gaster's experiment went wrong

[crimson badger]

The Cat in the Wall

[ripe harbor]

especially if it's the 'smile' from mus_smile, or the mirrored laughter in the garbage noise

[rain lotus]

but i thought church was sunday....

[ripe harbor]

not in DR I guess

Friday has class -> Chapter 3 DW that night -> next morning church

[sour mesa]

adventists???

[ripe harbor]

it's sprite is also stored with the UI and Gonermaker elements, and if the Freedom motif is connected to it- it doesn't change that it seems to be based on Gaster's theme (a re-intpretation of Gaster's work, maybe?)

[rain lotus]

he would steal from the donation basket

[ripe harbor]

I think it would be narratively fitting if Friend was born as a result of something Gaster did, but grew to have their own individuality afterwards

it mirrors how Dark Worlds in general work

and probably why children and giving birth is tied in as well

[ripe harbor]

and it seems like it can really only be this or already existing in the dark, in some manner, and just being found

[dense cargo]

So just to be clear, do you believe that the Mantle Holder is FRIEND?

[ripe harbor]

I think collectively its probably the most likely character who is speaking in the mantle game, yeah

I think the 'strange Someone' mentioned in the secret boss / shadow crystal quests are all referring to the same character, basically

and I think thats true in the case of chapter 3 as well

IE: the thing that gave you the OddController is the same thing that spoke to Jevil & Spamton & probably left a crystal for Gerson

and I think the thing that left the OddController is probably what is talking through the game

[dense cargo]

I'm of two minds on the topic. On the one hand, having FRIEND and the Mantle boss be different characters seems to me like it would somewhat clutter the game with mysterious characters (and I can't imagine Mantle Holder being any other pre-existing character).

[ripe harbor]

this is true regardless of its or not, imo

[dense cargo]

On the other hand the way you run into the two of them separatley in the Sword Route makes me think they're distinct.

[low surge]

god DAMNIT Toby

[ripe harbor]

I actually didn't notice the fact the rooms together make a flowing fountain of black with rainbow colors inside until I got that image. Masterful work mr. fox.

[ripe harbor]

its something, but with the boss literally being the shadow mantle

I can't really imagine what it would be if the mantle boss was seperate from

it would legitimately have no specific design elements besides... orange, maybe? Demon horns and a catlike mouth?

[ripe harbor]

like this person says, the Mantle Holder speaks in a manner different from all the other characters in the Mantle game

they speak like a normal Dark World character

I could totally buy there is 'someone' controlling the little floaty mantle-thing in the same way Kris+Us control Hero_Sword

[low surge]

What’s the Dreemur Deltarune?

[low surge]

Yeah completely flew over my head

[ripe harbor]

Toriel has a fucked up Deltarune on her house

its

not really similar to the others that crop up

[dense cargo]

Too many mysteries.

[ripe harbor]

inverted triangles and wavy wings

[dense cargo]

Gaster is a giant photorealistic microphone.

[ripe harbor]

its rude to talk about someone whos listening....

[ripe harbor]

also

and this is personal bias, probably, but

the Mantle holder speaks pretty much exactly like how I'd expect a demonic cheshire-cat thing to speak

speaks similarly to Gaster, speaks similarly to Chara,

they ''use quite fanciful and archaic language throughout their dialogue''

I at least think it is more well supported as true than any pre-chapter 3+4 "Gaster was the strange someone who met with Jevil and Spamton" theories

and all the art people were making off that were still bangers, so

I'm chill either way

[strange cloud]

Admittedly, idk if Jevil is just unique, but for Jevil I can’t super imagine a world where Gaster wasn’t the one

With Seam literally quoting entry 17 in their dialogue talking about what happened to Jevil

That’s to direct an allusion to mean nothing

[ripe harbor]

Its definitely written as an allusion to the whole thing- you don't do those direct quotes unintentionally

but the actual description of Entry Number 17 does appear to describe Dark World creation

and, well

https://youtu.be/7nOqqgiHKsw?si=fwpmTD4DV0ZUQirV&t=95

https://youtu.be/7nOqqgiHKsw?si=7xLR-d6M9dsMHlmY&t=126

[strange cloud]

2 Ralseis

[ripe harbor]

Friends laugh twice before it shows up

[ripe harbor]

his greed sickens me

[strange cloud]

I mean… that’s fair

[ripe harbor]

one MILLION more ralsei plushies

and then the actual face

[strange cloud]

Ralsillion plushies

[rain lotus]

i've been drawing ralsei every day and he taught me lineless art

[ripe harbor]

its not not associated with the phrase "Darker than Dark"

[rain lotus]

this is the power of unlimited ralseis

[ripe harbor]

and the same holds up for the garbage noise / phone stuff

[strange cloud]

Turns out friend was actually the first darkner Gaster met after making the dark world from entry 17

[ripe harbor]

mus_smile was in room gaster- is there a reason to believe the Addion hearing 'Garbage Noise' wouldn't be gaster, but Seam saying 'Darker yet Darker' would be?

[ripe harbor]

unironically I think maybe

theres also something to

the 'someone' is only ever reffered to gender neutrally

notably, its never 'he met a strange man' or anything like that

one of the few absolutely locked in Gaster-things is that he's Him

he kept the pronouns in the divorce from reality or whatever

[strange cloud]

Yah Gaster is normally referred to with his gender

[ripe harbor]

it doesn't mean he couldn't be more ambigious

but theres not a single time the strange presence is called him

It pulls the strings and makes them ring

If it was ever he I'd think Gaster as the someone would shoot up

it really does hinge on the Shadow Mantle holder, though

[strange cloud]

Yah

[strange cloud]

Also, I just realized if that’s true, friend becomes the heartwarming story of a scientist adopting a stray cat he found after making a new world

[ripe harbor]

removing all the bullshit about catpetterz or mike or pointed tails or any of that:
The shadow mantle boss is set up surrounded by references to Jevil and especially Spamton, as one of the two characters in the story to actually use the word 'Shadow Crystals', with knowledge of Kris (and implied ability to watch them) and some sort of work to be done in the future

even without involved, theres a good argument for the thing talking to Kris there being the same thing involved with the Secret Bosses generally

(if its a single character. But I think it probably makes more writing sense to keep it consistent.)

[strange cloud]

Yah, Eram is tied to every secret boss, the weird route, Kris, the shelter

[ripe harbor]

and they don't really talk like Gaster

so....

[strange cloud]

Whoever it is, it’s the key to understanding what the fuck is going on

[ripe harbor]

me when I have to take time out my schedule (kidnapping children) to run the ones in LoZ with a traumatized teen

oh the Roots stuff is also a pretty strong nod, I think

the Shadow Mantle quest playing a refrain of Bit Roots, Digital Roots existing at all

now a Roots prophecy- it all seems connected to the Shelter

and when the two places you can hear a Roots song are also the two places where you can physically see , in secret boss related side content?

Jevil and Gerson basically ride into the theory because the connections between Spamton and the Shadow Mantle holder are so strong

The mantle game had some king of Friend, inside it

[ripe harbor]

like theres something going on with Susie's role in the prophecy

https://youtu.be/tHGOMcujK4E?si=r48AR4I2LiWYpap6&t=194

"You said you fancied yourself a hero, didn't ya? Hmm...... that's real interesting."

and the Old Man isn't really the type to lie

he misleads through implication all the time, but he doesn't lie

he never said "I'm a Lightner" he said "... whats a Darkner, anyhow?"

He didn't correct Susie after looking at the player and going "(to susie) 'Course, you weren't really fighting by yourself, hmm?" when she responds "Huh..? Oh, Kris, right! Yeah I guess they were telling me what to do."

He doesn't say "I'm Gerson" he says.... "I'm Old!"

so the way he phrases all this is suspicious!

He never calls Susie a hero

not himself or from his perspective

hell if I know what it means though

[low surge]

I can’t remember where I saw it, but someone found out that the music right before the ERAM fight is Glacier but slowed and pitched down. Not a huge thing but it’s really interesting how often Toby changes tempo and pitch and reuses his music, reminds me especially of older games and how they’d reuse sounds with different pitch to save on memory space

[rain lotus]

i only found out you can go back there when tenna goes away just today. there's so much stuff to this game

[ripe harbor]

(the music in the fake shelter game area, if you speed it up by 666%, is Glaceir)

[low surge]

Yeah that

[ripe harbor]

this mirrors how speeding up the shelter / noelle's basement(???) ambient track by 666% gets you snd_smile

which is uhhhh the garbage noise from dark world calls, and the sound playing in the back of the Entry 17 Undertale hidden file

so

its all cursed its cursed

noelle with the basement that plays the gaster music 💀

shes 4 hours into Cattpetterz minigame marathon going "anyone else hear that ominous bell tolling or is it just me? XP"

[ripe harbor]

idk if it means anything though

maybe an implications of another level of darkness, since smile is already slowed laughter, so its getting faster as you go from the light world to the dark world

[ripe harbor]

they make a good point....

[sour mesa]

well that doesn't make sense, what about SOUL

[velvet olive]

okay we're like 6 days behind on this thread and have been like weeks behind until we locked in but also
we HAVE to ask more about this, we'll get your response in a few (days)

[ripe harbor]

An early drawing of an enemy based off the trees in the forest. This enemy would've spawned in as either a blob, a dinosaur, or a humanoid, and would have a thought bubble next to them showing what they wanted to be. The player would then have to ACT to change them to their desired form - including the same thing, apparently.

#noticing

gee I wonder what trio that could be paralleling

'based on the tree' is also interesting

[rain lotus]

blobs want to be dinosaurs, dinosaurs want to be people, and people want to be blobs

but it's true

i want to be a blob

[delicate cave]

That looks like it became the bloxer, which shares the trees' colors

[low surge]

Learning the Pipis cries more in the Z Rank Room

Just fuck my shit up Toby huh

[rain lotus]

i had a lapse of lucid thought

this is stupid. why am i like this?

[clear frost]

No, there’s something here

[dense cargo]

It's not completely baseless, though I feel like calling the poor goat a blob has got to be some insult.

[strange cloud]

Tennancy

[rain lotus]

maybe if i just replaced everything with "parallelism" on second thought

i think it's probably relevant that we know what all their rooms look like

all like. Empty

susie and ralsei both hiding their face like kris does

this

like shit that's just text

hmm

[rain lotus]

i have no clue where i'm going with this

[crimson badger]

you have to keep cooking until we can consume this knowledge or we are consumed by it and shattered

[rain lotus]

i think i'm already shattered

but like

the LITERAL PRINCE, the THEY, the CAGE (also they)

[crimson badger]

isn't the angel also partially a symbol of freedom too?

or a freedom?

mostly digging further into the wants to be idea + kris not wanting to be under someone else's control

[rain lotus]

in undertale the angel is supposed to free the monsters yeah

[inland hare]

From this mortal coil

[rain lotus]

it's a little bit of irony

[crimson badger]

only always sometimes

also the blob bit makes me put more stock into ralsei being akin to the mantle holder (or an embodied concept, that's already been floated around), but this assumes downed but not out darkners don't just poof into their clothes
...and the blob bit is also explained by darkners coming from the darkness reflecting off of and redefining things

but at the same time the mantle holder does seem to have free movement within the dark world, just like ralsei

[rain lotus]

when you tell ralsei his face is unique he says something amorphous like "it's up to you what you think of me" which is pretty blobcoded

[crimson badger]

hmmm

[rain lotus]

(he gets like deflated when you tell him it looks familiar though so thanks ralsei)

[timber widget]

Ralsei can't be a blob, he's not glooby

[sharp lodge]

https://old.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1mwkf65/theres_something_wrong_with_my_house/

[rain lotus]

the fact that the middle heart is upright in the arrangement either means absolutely nothing or something

but i figure frisk would have been undertale's cage if anything??

or maybe they are, but then again, the dialogue from chara about their soul not being theirs at all
this whole thought process i'm spinning in my head is just the plot theme of creation/adaptation again though

[rain lotus]

and ralsei and kris both being sensitive to comparing asriel with ralsei feels like a fourth wall nudge at or against the idea of the series retelling itself 2 me

[ripe harbor]

yeah the bloxer was actually the next page

I never really thought about the bloxer as reflecting identity issues, idk why

I thought it was just a callback to the vessel, like the thrash machine

[ripe harbor]

when he's downed he turns 'into a pile of fluff'

thats pretty blob-y

[rain lotus]

LOL

my dive into madness only really resulted in this

like i think

[ripe harbor]

I think the important thematic element in the dino -> blob -> humans is

[rain lotus]

maybe undertale no mercy/pacifist was touching on these ideas of creation somewhat..? undertale itself "sort of" being an adaptation of a game that isn't even finished yet

[ripe harbor]

and that each one is 'the same' on the inside

they are to some degree interchangable for the enemy- they're the same at the core

both those bits reflect susie and ralsei's issues

[sour mesa]

what do you mean by that?

[rain lotus]

both sort of "create" within undertale

[ripe harbor]

end of no mercy shares some thematic similarities with the dark from DR

all thats left is darkness and wind, with maybe some faint ocean sounds(?)

the world was sent to 'the abyss'

[rain lotus]

like ummmm you get a whole different ending if you beat no mercy before true pacifist

[sour mesa]

The adaptation thing

[rain lotus]

mostly gerson

who was rambling abt the prophecy being adapted into pop culture

[ripe harbor]

DR was conceptualized before UT, and the later was made at least partially to do game dev before DR

so UT is kind of an adapatation of DR

[rain lotus]

yeah so you get this like

concept ouroborous

undertale references deltarune which reference undertale

[ripe harbor]

both ended up influencing the other

yeah

two reflections

I think the funniest thing is that Ralsei's name doesn't come from Asriel

so, you gotta wonder if it was coincidence

or if Asriel's name (and Toriels and Asgores?) in some way came from Ralsei

[serene loom]

yeah, Ralsei is actually named for Ralse, in a game Toby's oldest brother made in RPG maker when they were kids

[inland hare]

Did you know

Neither carol nor rudie let their tails hang out

But Noelle does

How risqué

[rain lotus]

i wonder if ralse -> ralsei -> asriel -> asriel [deltarune] or if kris' brother just always existed

[rain lotus]

soul babbling to the mystery man how like, concepts can be nested within themselves and he's like "will you just take the damn egg y/n"

[ripe harbor]

I wonder if this is foreshadowing

there are *still* dinosaurs

I hope theres still dinosaurs by the end of the game

after the 'earth is covered in water' and 'an ice age'

[ripe harbor]

could've been the OG DR didn't involve the Dreemurrs, tbh

[rain lotus]

yeah there's a lot there about artistic processes

[ripe harbor]

Kris family still existed- they might not have been Asgore and Toriel

Asgore feels a bit more like he originated in UT

with the whole king-in-the-mountain thing, and satanic imagery while being a ruler of the underworld

[rain lotus]

the original unadulterated deltarune dream being hazy and forgotten after the creator spent so much time doing other creative things

hence our.... deltarune

[gaster voice]

[restive comet]

Btw, is Susie supposed to be a dragon or a dinosaur, or is it unclear?

[ripe harbor]

whats interesting to me is that re-interpretation and creating new things through remixing existing things seems to form quite a bit of DRs underlying themes

[ripe harbor]

I think its both

shes definitely a dragon, and shes probably a dinosaur

when the text mentions one or the other, it could be refering to her either time

[rain lotus]

someone mentioned gaster not really being in control of deltarune at all yesterday, gaster himself being someone who literally fell into creation

i dunno there is something there [or at least from there we can construct a fun narrative from this theme]

[ripe harbor]

Gerson as the strongest Gaster parallel so far- he didn't invent the prophecy either

he just took something that already existed, and 'retold' it

[restive comet]

I feel like she's at least half dragon

[ripe harbor]

or Vessel creation, where you are making something from a list of pre-defined options

its creation-as-remixing

The Thrash Machine, the Legend of Tenna, Kris making copies of cards and coloring them in, The Dark Worlds themselves in the way they reflect the Light World while adding so much more

nothing is unique

and that probably applies to the prophecy too tbh

[restive comet]

I do like the idea of Susie being half human too

[ripe harbor]

deviantart oc lol

half human,, half dragon, half dinosaur- the BEAST

but within, the power of hope....

I like the headcanon people have that she came from a human-dominant town

and always felt out of place

[delicate cave]

Susie Sparkledog...

...imagine Kris's sparkledog OC

[rain lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-goat-ralsei-cute-wave-gif-4003852403393086370

(i joke)

[sour mesa]

no you might be onto something

[ripe harbor]

why is Kris' sparkledog OC also prince of the darkness itself

tell me Your Secrets White Boy

[crimson badger]

* You close your eyes and think of Susie

[ripe harbor]

Gaster himself trying to 'rewrite' the story seems fitting for his motivations

& the cryptic shit he says

[rain lotus]

mfw he says "MY DELTARUNE™" (he is also excited for the next chapter)

[ripe harbor]

He's already shattered across time through the dark, its not hard to imagine he's "there" in a bad ending when the world ends

yeah

it isn't yet

[ripe harbor]

honestly this might be where the intro takes place, too

though I'm not sure how applicable 'when' and 'where' are to indistinct void-space

maybe the weird star-saves and the certain power it fills you with is just memory

the story happened, but you are remembering it differently, so it changes?

[rain lotus]

we can work starwalker and his originality into this. somehow

[crimson badger]

the og savefile before eggn'tman got to him

[ripe harbor]

These re-interpretations are pissing me off.
I love IP Law.

it'd be a way to tie up the memory and creative work elements, if you experiencing the game is something like the soul 'remembering' what happened

and it works with the weirdly chopped up nature of the chapters in universe

like the end of chapter 3, Kris types in the Bunker's code, presumably even enters it with the Soul

we don't see any of that. Our connection ends beforehand.

and the original survey_program continues basically right off the gaster tweets

which starts with

the same things you get at the edge of TV World, or when the Knight shows up

[ripe harbor]

hmm

awesome shaped bush in that official artwork

very..... hmm

in the tall grass, too

[sour mesa]

i think that one's flowey

[rain lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-dance-fast-dancing-plush-toy-plushie-gif-13992605206510819155

[ripe harbor]

Flowey and Friend might end up parallel characters tbh

the Amalgams and the True Lab in general has a lot of DR-esque concepts

I honestly think theres still a non-zero chance it was the strange person who hired muffet

[rose swallow]

i mean

wasn't the strange person who hired muffet the patreon user who designed her?

[rain lotus]

God the undertale plushes were wild

[ripe harbor]

probably

I personally wouldn't describe Friends smile as 'sweet' lmao

[delicate cave]

I always thought the implication was that Flowey hired Muffet.

[ripe harbor]

is Flowey stacking mad paper

I assumed Mettaton tbh

but with her as a meta-kickstarter thing, and the joke at the end about 'they must have meant another human in a striped shirt!'

idk could've been a DR reference

[delicate cave]

maybe, but the joke also works at face value. "it's funny because it's so specific, and monsters keep assuming Frisk isn't the bad human they have to look out for"

[sour mesa]

flowey can time loop until he finds an item duplication glitch. but yeah i think mettaton is a little more likely

[delicate cave]

Mettaton would have the money, but it's weird for Muffet not to recognize him.

[ripe harbor]

Is Mettaton they / them'd as often in UT?

[sour mesa]

it kinda depends on not being recognizable due to being in shadows

[ripe harbor]

They 'changed shape'

so if it was Mettaton, he would've been in EX form, I think is the implication

[sour mesa]

oh yeah that fits

[ripe harbor]

but it'd feel odd for Muffet to not say 'he' warned us, unless its just to keep Mettaton's heel turn a secret for a bit longer

Muffet is a bit before the Core, and you're still doing the gameshow facade

[sour mesa]

that was my take on it yeah

[ripe harbor]

I still think it was probably Mettaton

but Friend might've been more likely than Flowey?

[low surge]

Spamton is a Latino Theory

[clear frost]

Don’t drink the water,

[ripe harbor]

its incredibly funny that this is a real restaurant

and that all their social media posts, from 2017, look like this:

whatever they set up to crosspost from their instagram didn't work lmao

none of these links work

[rain barn]

they're [[Hyperlink Blocked]]?

[low surge]

Immensely Spamton coded

[rain lotus]

[[DRINK THE MARGARITAS]]

[velvet olive]

fighting the Knight feeling like fighting a panic attack probably isn't helped by the fact that Kris is holding their breath the whole time*
(*if you know that holdbreath lasts the whole fight at least <vv<)

still reading by the way. almost there 👍

we send our messages to the future.... time capsule....

[ripe harbor]

M A N G O

[velvet olive]

hello everyone

we have arrived

it has been a long journey...

we're gonna draw a delta'd rune

coulda done the scarf better, we like the face actually

[rain lotus]

i love drawing ralssy delta rune

[rain lotus]

thought about this more
when spamton says we were "MAKING" in weird route, you can wrap this into the theme of "reinterpretation as creation" if you want to run with it. we were MAKING by reinterpreting deltarune with the weird route's additional context

what did this game do to me

[ripe harbor]

https://www.tumblr.com/steampoweredwerehog/784709411374530560?source=share

Don't you worry about it.

Not what Dess meant but.

I mean it couldn’t hurt

-# #deltarune #Silly #dess holiday #Gaster #december holiday #wd gaster #wingdings gaster #Ut/dr #Steamed doodles

Tumblr · May 27, 2025, 2:46 PM

[ripe harbor]

yeah, like how the knight 'Makes' with its black knife, or how Queen describes the fountain's creation as 'The Knight reached its hand forward, and Made.'

its not specifying what they made, they just... created

[rain lotus]

yeah there's so much

[strange cloud]

I gotta get out of other Deltarune servers it’s bad over there

[foggy python]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWx0AK41vL8

i would fold into just

watching a playthrough

[restive comet]

What's happening this time?

[strange cloud]

They’re doing “Nobody but Susie actually sees Kris as NB, they’re just saying They/Them to be polite”

[foggy python]

unfortunately, with deltarune's extreme popularity comes with the territory of the servers surrounding it to be an extremely mixed bag, and if the proper maintenance isn't done, it turns really rancid

the whole they/them shit has been going on since release, it's really jarring to hop into a community and this still is a point of contention

[strange cloud]

Yah that server has like, maybe 1 mod I think

And they’re not even actually active

[foggy python]

that sucks to experience

[strange cloud]

Oh the person wasn’t misgendering Kris, their thought was everyone in the game besides Susie was like, internally

[foggy python]

ah

that's.

new?

[strange cloud]

Yah

[foggy python]

at least it's a new take

[strange cloud]

It’s new alright

[sharp lodge]

https://www.rxddit.com/gallery/1my300v

https://tenor.com/view/jesse-pinkman-aaron-paul-screaming-need-for-speed-gif-20658918

[ripe harbor]

& then he turns to stone

[rose swallow]

I think it would be neat if they'd tried to make harder versions of the Knight's attacks in a touhou engine

instead of just a touhou boss with a picture of the Knight on the screen

[dense cargo]

Why does this end with a Kirby song.

[rain lotus]

still banging this idea in my head

[dense cargo]

Are you inventing brand new forms of Deltarune theology?

[rain lotus]

maybe

teehee

[dense cargo]

Excellent.

[rain lotus]

all this just makes noelle very interesting 2 me

[restive comet]

Yea, that's just sad

[ripe harbor]

you can throw noelle up top too if you want

[restive comet]

Again, glad I don't interact with the fandom outside of here

[rain lotus]

i kind of feel like she's A Nefarious New Thing/she's not the divinity or literal union of the three heroes

and probably integral to whatever deltarune will say about prophecy

[restive comet]

What's the white blob next to Ralsei btw?

[rain lotus]

asriel

[restive comet]

Ah

[ripe harbor]

fair enough

[rain lotus]

asriel's purpose in undertale was exposition

[ripe harbor]

I suspect her Angel motif payoffs are going to be in all routes

[restive comet]

https://tenor.com/view/scream-blue-thing-gif-27084635

[rain lotus]

he basically loredumps you with the buttercup plan

[rose swallow]

the european PlayStation store website accidentally leaked a chapter 5 screenshot

[rain lotus]

my thoughts are that it's deception and definitely more relevant in weird route as the mark of the start of the forbidden path (which feels like it's going to be disobedience of the prophecy like neutral/maybe no mercy was in UT) as per sword route and all the talk about "freedom" mirroring the stuff about "control" in no mercy

satanish

i don't really have individual UT parallels except maybe omega flowey/asgore if you want to stretch?

but i kind of feel like deltarune is leading up to some kind of mother 3 situation so i don't know + i can't possibly know the endgame so

[sage needle]

Everytime an RPG asks for my name

https://tenor.com/view/zaunvi-caitvitwt-gif-1251875630135871970

[inland hare]

I too would be suspicious of any rocket that talks to me

[low surge]

Me when I’m a dumb fucking idiot

[ripe harbor]

I was looking at some of the pre-chapter 3 development teasers, saw it was mentioned more concept art of TV World would drop after the chapter release

hope we get that for the UT 10th anniversary

it looks like its diverged the most even in the one concept art we got already

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/375444736636485632/1408718210358050846/chapter_3_concept_art.png?ex=68aac292&is=68a97112&hm=04c16242210b13695835b26a4909588747e65863bca5244cd11d58f099dd70fa

[ripe harbor]

def might need to carve out a space for whatever's up with the Titans

they're weeeiiiird they got some weird stuff going on

[ripe harbor]

https://ecstasydemon.tumblr.com/post/790876452712284160/transmasc-dess-moment?is_related_post=1

demonboy extraordinaire

transmasc dess moment?

-# #dess holiday #december holiday #deltarune #fanart #asriel dreemurr #asriel deltarune #edgy art

Tumblr · Aug 3, 2025, 4:29 PM

theres a few of these

[low surge]

ALWAYS BET ON CHESTER KNIGHT

Here’s how it can still happen

[manic parrot]

arright, i've finished Chapter 4

[sour mesa]

how ya feeling

[manic parrot]

vibrating rapidly

[sour mesa]

yeah

yeah

[manic parrot]

the animation, when the Titan popped out?

like goddamn, i didn't know we were secretly playing a Thunder Lotus game the whole time

[rain lotus]

we aren't gonna let it happen. right, kris?

[manic parrot]

i was always ride-or-die for this game for a lot of different reasons but man

i'm excited

[restive comet]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-defeated-give-up-gif-5507795813322566763

I felt like this after finishing Ch4

[rain lotus]

ralsei's portraits whenever he's about to say some fucked up shit gets me

world's most forced smile

[low surge]

fr though like it was so good but damn if I didn’t feel almost defeated at the end (which I guess is the point)

[manic parrot]

🫵 despair

[low surge]

Started chapter 4 with goosebumps when it opened with that bit of dark sanctuary and it ended with me like

https://tenor.com/view/pilgrim-pathetic-dies-dies-of-cringe-dark-souls-gif-26766543

[rain lotus]

he's so bad at pretending to be okay :(

[ripe harbor]

his breakdowns are just so sad

realistically sad

[manic parrot]

definitely hit hard when you saw his "oh shit this is terrible" sprite exactly two times

when the Titan was summoned

and when he realized Susie was gonna see the end of the prophecy

[ripe harbor]

which plucky teen do YOU think is doomed

I think I'm putting money down on "All of them. Every one."

[manic parrot]

Jockington

too pure for this world

[sour mesa]

but he hasn't grown the beard....

[manic parrot]

it will be an act of profound sacrifice

[rain lotus]

these ones hurt a little too, dark world's most crumbly person

[manic parrot]

he knows too much

the Knight and their co-conspirators will never allow him to live

[manic parrot]

the big man... HASS the Rock

[low surge]

Toby hit me with the angst ray again. Toriel and Asgore in couples therapy after The Incident, Toriel is upset that Asgore doesn’t sleep with her anymore (before she kicks him to the couch for good). Asgore is coaxed into discussing a recurring nightmare where he is out searching for Dess. In the dream he eventually finds a clearing covered in deep snow in the forest. He finds some shreds of Dess’ clothing, only to realize that it’s not snow. It’s dust. And then a blizzard begins.
Chat am I cooking?

[rain lotus]

https://www.tumblr.com/semitransparent/792321611189665792/ralsei-226

huh weird

https://64.media.tumblr.com/c7b252604a0ec90cfb14825ec8a95182/8a8242d02a7c85f8-cb/s540x810/228a655f69caacacb4247f44e615f7b3fceab890.gif

the embed didn't seem to work

[rain lotus]

found an interesting read of "you can't find your hand"

there's a lot of negative space surrounding dess

and that it's less about your hand literally being missing

and more about something that's there that you take for granted just disappearing

she's not even brought up in a sentence about her

her as the subject, without ever being there

and man all this text about someone that's an integral part of you Going hurts

because that sort of like. hyperawareness of absence is everywhere for so long after

[crimson badger]

there's a lot of devious things getting cooked up in DR and I can't wait to be emotionally devastated and/or fulfilled and ugly cry for the week after everything's out and in place

been thinking a bunch of how deltarune talks about identity and fiction, and how that's also the game making a case for itself directly
its a copy of a copy of a copy, and interpretation of a reflection of a faded dream
the prophecy in text has been reinterpreted and warped and is now a part of culture both as this religious symbol but as multiple fictional ones.
the prophecy in our reality (the fever dream) became a prototype that was either shelved, cancelled, or outright morphed into UT, and so even though UT comes after it, it also came first. And once the project could actually get its footing, it became changed by this detour
deltarune The Fever Dream both is and is not The Prototype, undertale, and afterwards deltarune The Game
and how Ralsei is both an aspect of that, a character to point "I'm not Asriel, this is not undertale", but also a descendant in a way of Ralse, and most likely an ancestor of Asriel, and Asriel being possibly an ancestor of Toriel and Asgore (making A LOT of assumptions about memetic genealogy here tbh), things that came after, but that were there first.
this could also tie into gaster possibly seeing A Bad Ending during the original tweets, we came after thanks to his influence, but because of that, we are here before.

[rain lotus]

i have something like that on my conspiracy board

[crimson badger]

Yes

perfect actually, way shorter way to say what I was saying without all those words getting in the way

[rain lotus]

that's also a good angle though cuz i only arrived here thinking abt the themes of interpretation

[crimson badger]

yeah, got there similarly, it makes it evident during ch4's gerson dialogue, but then you look back and it's always been there

and then its always been there because of the text, but also outside of it

its like you peel back layers or tug at a stray thread until you're granted Insight

[rain lotus]

that's sort of where my mental mirror-heroes thread came from too

[crimson badger]

yeah I see it better now

[rain lotus]

gerson's such a wild inclusion that really ties a bunch of themes together

[crimson badger]

I kinda stayed at them being just alternate chars/references untill I stumbled upon that idea, and copies, and alternatives

half of gerson feels like toby just wanting to talk about the development of the game and making a case to let people get inspired by it

and its perfect because of it

(it also makes sense, since we're getting past the halfway point so cards are no longer just getting set up but starting to get played)

[sour mesa]

https://meandtheyeehaws.tumblr.com/post/792603705516097537

bewbs!!

i like berdley :]

-# #my art #deltarune chapter 2 #deltarune #queen deltarune #deltarune queen #berdley #berdley deltarune

Tumblr · Aug 22, 2025, 6:03 PM

[rain lotus]

I've never been as interested in gaster's deal as I am now

I put "gaster as an artist" on my board but I think its only there because it makes his dialogue sound pretty LOL

The fact he? Intervenes in knight fight reattempts to allow you to keep retrying is fascinating

[crimson badger]

when we were actually in the creepypasta character's fanfic all along

[timber widget]

https://www.tumblr.com/a-big-chicken-nerd/792101588267417600 (5 images)

chicken brained

she may have missed a key point in elninas selfie explanation...

Tumblr · Aug 17, 2025, 5:02 AM

[rain lotus]

rotating my brain again

adding "becoming" to "negative space"

[rain lotus]

i have no clue what to make of this

but it's literally that

[crimson badger]

I feel like I'm going too far a false road but:
MY deltarune is not YOUR deltarune is not GASTER's deltarune is not TOBY's deltarune
yet its all deltarune
ALL of these deltarunes are currently unfinished, having a vague before and after that branches out into different directions (fanworks, dark)
once defined through progression by the devs/canon we can see what the final deltarune looks like (official works, light)
deltarune the text wants the text to not be definite (the option presented by the light is not the only answer: change and be inspired to do fan creations; lightners don't just need to feed into their preconceived social roles)
the party has different motivations to use or divert the prophecy, the set path, and create something new

nothing is set until the vagueness is either illuminated by dark or light

am I making sense

I feel like I am onto something but also feel like I just have a pepe silvia board ranting

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-mike-pippin-green-conspiracy-gif-5869661353018453933

expectations point to ways but the way is not set until made into reality one way or another

[rain lotus]

i think i get what you mean

[crimson badger]

like
we've all developed ideas and expectations of how the story will go from discussion and wishes (or even a vague desire to have an emotion evoked unto us)
there is no assurance that the story will tread those notes, but in the inbetween we ground those wishes and expectations through theory, analysis and fanwork,
a copy of a copy of a copy, an interpretation that spins off an incomplete whole, but not made lesser even when the whole is finally revealed
togore might not be real but I still care
I feel like I don't quite have the words to say this more succintly and instead have to rely on evoking vibes or going back to deltarune treating the creation of identity and fiction as the same, of dark as potential and light as definite

[ripe harbor]

I've actually been thinking quite a bit about the ocean-noise-static thing the dark has going on, and I think it hooks onto the same space

theres this consistent underlying idea that the darkness isn't a void, but instead its filled with too much overlapping junk data

so, are things coming out of that static at all a sort of interpretation? Starting to see patterns inside?

like, the act of perception is a sort of creation- things start to exist when they are seen

Its interesting the dark is this sea of noise, though

It could be that nothing is every truly thrown away? It could be that its everything that could exist, and its just undefined? idk exactly where its going.

[rain lotus]

i wonder how relevant this could be to ralsei and susie both "unmasking" themselves at the end of chapter 1

since they were finally Perceived

and

if this means anything for kris

[ripe harbor]

I think it might be literalized with fountain creation too- right before you stab the earth, theres a bunch of flaring stars / titan eyes

like they are starting to 'see'

[rain lotus]

oh THAT'S what they are

[ripe harbor]

and when they do, it gives the dark world form

idk if it is lol

thats just what I see them as

[rain lotus]

i thought it was osu

https://tenor.com/view/osu-cursor-dance-jolo-gif-18175154

hold on lemme open a dark fountain

[ripe harbor]

they way they flash like stars and then kinda resolve into that dot-diamond shape makes me think eyes

[rain lotus]

yeah i definitely see it the animation's just so quick i never got a good look at it

[ripe harbor]

honestly save points might be something similar

titan eyes are real spiky in four cardinal directions

maybe saving is the act of perception? being percieved (and so given definition?)

this is kinda why I was about the Titans regarding the metaphysics

[crimson badger]

that'd be a fun play on words with how saving is recording things down, either in the literal, physical sense of data being written down, or how some games contextualize the action

[ripe harbor]

for representations of fear, it almost seems like they power the fountains as the thing thats 'seeing'

[ripe harbor]

after going back to UT's true lab,

I think this is honestly what the game might be doing with 'Memory'

memory like data & memory like past experiences

[rain lotus]

on the flipside i wonder how much this has to do with "becoming negative space" too

[ripe harbor]

the sea of static is garbage noise - its 'bad' memory

[rain lotus]

i thought it was kind of interesting that neither noelle nor kris notices they spell out "DECEMBER" together

which noelle couldn't bring herself to do in the flashback

i dunno maybe that's a whole other theme about grief or something

[crimson badger]

I feel there's something to tug at looking at it from the aspect of Identity/fiction as a reflection but I can only see the contextual negative space ironically enough

same as the eyes, would Will then act as prism with which a specific dark shines through then?

[rain lotus]

i felt like i was going crazy when i started looking for stuff along those lines LOL

the fact i couldn't save asriel is becoming negative space

[ripe harbor]

Gut feeling is that re-interpretation and reflection and identity are going to interlink in a sort of 'there is no 'real' intrinsic you' sort of way

selfhood as a reflection of your context, who you are as the fiction you create of 'you'

[crimson badger]

mhm I see it

[ripe harbor]

and then you have the roaring knight or whatever being a big mass of overlapping static-y images

and having 'lost' themselves

[rain lotus]

...the fact ralsei [feels like] he can't save his friends, hm

[ripe harbor]

the signal isnt clear

they don't speak, they only make noise

If Noelle had gone missing it would be the rawring knight XP

[crimson badger]

...what would happen then, given noelle's affinity to find seams and exploit them within fictional contexts

[ripe harbor]

Total victory no survivors

[crimson badger]

the cat petterz knight

[ripe harbor]

the interpretation of the prophecy where Catti is the girl...

https://tenor.com/view/black-guy-eating-good-food-wow-shocked-at-how-good-the-food-is-gif-4442559760889363287

I think theres a non-zero chance for a reveal later that lightners, souls, or whatever originate from the dark too, in some weird way

[rain lotus]

ralsei's very thematically interesting to me today i think

what a fucked up little dude

[ripe harbor]

theres enough tied up with the dark as being an origin, being a primordial sea, the fetal imagery with the titans...

the weird way fountains react to our soul

if thats the case, all identities really are spun out of a background mass of junk information- reinterpretation as creation

"When did you start being yourself?"

[crimson badger]

light comes from the dark is influenced by the light

[ripe harbor]

never really seen anyone point this out

but its actually hidden by the game, at least for now, what you are doing in the Titan fight to gain TP

where you get it from literally purifying the Titan Spawn

inside each of those little garbled fear-shards is a little nugget of pure soul-juice-power

why?

idk, but I think people might have more in common with Titanspawn than they'd want to believe

[rain lotus]

god "negative space becoming" is so clever of me. i'm such a smart bug

[ripe harbor]

you gotta pull out the uhhh

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-deltarune-chapter-3-friend-gif-3264300287661350839

if you're going in on negative space

its got cats in its holes

[rain lotus]

right. that was literally ralsei's Actual Text

[crimson badger]

also don't most/all of the Spawn look like fetuses or other forms of undefined youth?
undefined because there is no past to ground themselves in, but an infinity of future to take from
I don't know if its related to this angle but my brain tells me that it could

[ripe harbor]

I mean even visually its def riffing on that

[ripe harbor]

yeah! They are spawn, but they end up looking like developing people

Speculatively, and not really grounded in much beyond vibes - are people just developed spawn?

[crimson badger]

the shard of possibility behind the static and overlap?

[ripe harbor]

Noise given context, until it starts to be recognizable

[crimson badger]

is the roaring not the end, but a change of hands?

[ripe harbor]

I think the roaring is the end because its things getting lost in the noise

like literally as a roar it covers all other 'sound'

[crimson badger]

hmmm, everything fading back into possibility again, nothing is, even if everything could be

[ripe harbor]

it replaces this with this

[crimson badger]

idr where I got this from but I saw an idea that the game would eventually play with the savefiles in wanting you to replay it similarly to fake pacifist > true pacifist, going back but things are still changed by future events

[ripe harbor]

but the data is still 'there'

its just all mixed up

its full of faces and laughter, if you listen to it the right way

[crimson badger]

oh god oh fuck oh god oh fuck those amalgamates felt so out of context

[ripe harbor]

"Come join the fun"

"its a real get together"

Ralsei doesn't describe the fate of lightners during the roaring as dying, exactly

he says they'll be lost in the dark

so- thats probably worse lmao

[crimson badger]

hometown knight stocks skyrocketing

[ripe harbor]

also Memoryheads are like 100% DR foreshadowing

you have to sharpen their text to even be understandable through the phone, they come out of the taps as water before developing into a writing mass of faces,

they got some minor gastery connections, they actually do the same static-y effect the Titans and Spawn and Knight do

[crimson badger]

and are in the deepest, darkest part of the game, Gaster's lab

[ripe harbor]

they've actually also got negative space in their overworld sprite

[crimson badger]

a lot of amalgamtes do don't they

[ripe harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBqUtVyfFk

[ripe harbor]

yeah I think True Lab was a lot of DR-ish concepts

Idk which one came first in the actual dev pipeline

but

Amalgams LOVE smiling

[crimson badger]

at this point I feel the chicken is the egg in terms of dev origins

[ripe harbor]

you know what really jumpscared me

was watching Earthbound Halloween Hack playthrough the other day

"Coagulated out of raw shadow"

shifting mass of indeterminate junk data and faces

Toby's liked these motifs for a while it looks like lmao

its funny because I was actually trying to find the EBHH Amalgams and ran into this instead

'mixed-up' memory

faces appearing in negative space

so in UT the Amalgams are because of a physical reaction between Determination and Monster-bodies, and while DR is going in a different route with the Light/Dark/Perception stuff

I think the idea of getting 'mixed up' is still gonna be there

because if you just keep trying to make copies of copies of copies, reflections of reflections of reflections

they don't go away

they just overlap

[ripe harbor]

until everything is just a monochrome smear

[inland hare]

Let us all become one

[rain lotus]

i'm old!

[sharp lodge]

https://youtu.be/bgbJ8TJhdrM?si=B9OOFn3N2IaCNt_q

[rain lotus]

https://youtu.be/VauL5iv687I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP9mB1sVJz4
pondering these

like burning eyes is the obvious third one

oh god

tfw looking up origin of the term godhead

i have dess derangement now

mfw i look at the calendar.... and December 25th is a Holiday

[sour mesa]

that's true

[ripe harbor]

thats

[ripe harbor]

perfect

we've got derangement, dess derangement,

we're missing a third for the trifecta

[inland hare]

[ripe harbor]

what would it be

[clear frost]

Frienderangement, Dessrangement,

[inland hare]

Egg derangement

[ripe harbor]

Gaster's theme hallucinators?

[clear frost]

Eggrangement

[inland hare]

Papyrus derangement?

[ripe harbor]

its not derangement if its going to happen 😤

[inland hare]

Asriel derangement?

[ripe harbor]

I think that Jaru guy has that

rip......

[inland hare]

Milk derangement

[ripe harbor]

what about this

[timber widget]

She

[rain lotus]

ouuuugh i'm so full of themes

[dense cargo]

These get less comprehensible every time. Great work!

[rain lotus]

thank you

the next collage will be in wingdings

[ripe harbor]

Noelle you, uh,

you feeling ok?

[rain lotus]

i forgot to turn on draw opaque

i liked what it did to the knight but i was too lazy to fix it

[ripe harbor]

word for recruiting is FRIEND
word for losing a recruit is LOST
hmm....

[serene loom]

FRIEND is actually good theory confirmed!

[ripe harbor]

yeah the last person who got entangled with it(?) through forming suspicious bonds ended up. super good.

keep plugging your soul into video games you find it'll probably end up fine

[crimson badger]

done deal

wait what's that scratching sound

[rain lotus]

at least you left the egg for him. right? oh god did you? oh god. oh no

[sage needle]

If Chapter 5 does take place in Asgore's store I wonder if the first egg will return

[low surge]

I imagine there’ll probably be a reference or small scene with it, but I don’t think it’ll be anything huge. Wouldn’t fit the “not too important, not too unimportant” thing

[ripe harbor]

If you recollect it & the pipis you unlock a new egg-based item fusion

[low surge]

I do wonder if Pipis will have something more in later chapters too

Not that I imagine it would be major either

[ripe harbor]

I think its funny when people go crazy about what they 'really are'

its obvious

they're Pipis

"are they eggs? are they sentient?" They're Pipis

[low surge]

[The Boys]

[ripe harbor]

diversity win!

I think if when you use it on Kris as an item they don't even eat it

I think they hold it up and then it just phases into them. +100 HP.

how seriously do we have to consider these as relating to the same general idea

versus just being jokes in the first case

[timber widget]

They do hatch, though

(or, well, one does)

[ripe harbor]

most that you see hatch into endless swarms of spamton's face I think

[sour mesa]

Spamton has been altered to look like pipis spawn 📝

[low surge]

Reading the weird route kriscourse giving me brain damage and reminding me why I only really discuss these games here

[timber widget]

Oh god, what are they talking about

[low surge]

People just arguing that the weird route is either all one thing (forcing heteronormative roles on queer teens) or all another (dark spin on classic RPG tropes). Some people also really taking umbrage with the former interpretation.
Personally to me it’s both, because both of those things intertwine well. A lot of RPGs tend to have male main characters, and it’s not uncommon to have a plot about a childhood best friend turned romantic interest. A typical masculine, domineering Knight/Commander type character role and a more passive/subservient/submissive healer/mage character type deal. Plus all the stuff about commanding and how this parallels a heteronormative relationship. The “we’re something else” or “Noelle will ride with me” lines and all that. Not that Kris is male or masculine, but that they’re being forced into that sort of role by the player, just as Noelle is being forced into the damsel/love interest role. The two go hand in hand imo. The stereotypical RPG roles fit so well because they clash with who these characters are. Add in the way the weird route plays more along the lines of a typical RPG (kill things, get stronger (like No Mercy in Undertale)) and I think it all goes really well together. It doesn’t have to be an either or type situation.

[timber widget]

Nod nod

[ashen tide]

https://youtu.be/bgbJ8TJhdrM?si=FwNvKycewfirMUz4

[strange cloud]

https://www.vxtiktok.com/t/ZP8BmjDvX/

[rain lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/dess-holiday-dess-december-december-holiday-deltarune-gif-7199147166360524604

they got em

[strange cloud]

I liked her too

[rain lotus]

whaddya mean, "they got her?"

[ripe harbor]

yeah broadly agreed, I think

I feel like I need to wait to see where its going before I have any super commital reads about WR

its got a lot going on, theres a lot to dig into, but idk which parts are the main points yet

whats being said, when 'forcing heteronormative roles on queer teens' is also 'breaking away from the established pre-written fate'?

Something about control, broadly? Denial of individual's personhood in favor of you getting to decide what happens?

I'm not even sure what direction Noelle's general arc is gonna go in Normal Route, and the way she's gonna contrast with WR is what you really got to look at

its almost cult-like

its about as much about preventing noelle from forming any geniune bonds with anyone else as it is about making sure shes connected to you

its not random that Snowgrave is cast on her closest friend

[restive comet]

I think it's more imposing your will over others in general

Specifically at their expense

[crimson badger]

...forcing your own Light/interpretation over another?

[restive comet]

?

[crimson badger]

its my own brainworms speaking

I've been kinda light/darkposting for the past few days in the ways they relate to identity and the collective unconscious

like OUR deltarune not being MY deltarune not being YOUR deltarune and what not

WR under those worms would be forcing YOUR deltarune into MY deltarune

[restive comet]

https://art.ngfiles.com/images/2680000/2680388_mega-kot_confused.gif?f1660433986

[crimson badger]

no I get it I sound like this

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-mike-pippin-green-conspiracy-gif-5869661353018453933

[restive comet]

No

I'm just tired and brain's mush

[crimson badger]

same

[restive comet]

Although I don't think forcing Noelle to date Kris(/YOU) is required for the Weird Route, she's more just a means to an end

Like you can still acknowledge to her directly how fucked up everything you're doing is and retain a level of distance and detachment

It's just you can also choose to impose yourself more over her which is just as fucked up

At the end of the day, you're still forcing her and Kris to do terrible things and damaging both of their relationships

[low surge]

I definitely think the Weird Route has multiple themes/things going on. Some people (no one here mind you) seem to think there’s one singular theme or idea behind it.
Just to me it feels like the repression of characters identities/wills/desires includes their queerness. Even if you can acknowledge things to Noelle, you’re ultimately smothering out her budding romance with Susie in favor of a dependency upon YOU. But yeah broadly a major theme is control and denying these characters (who Toby is very insistent are real people despite being fictional) their autonomy

[manic parrot]

Hey so where did people get the idea that Dess is left-handed

[sour mesa]

computer in her room?

[manic parrot]

…what about it

[sour mesa]

sometimes mouse placement in at the characters' computers is used to argue for handedness. Mouse on the left side of the computer, left-handed character

i forget if that's the case this time though

[manic parrot]

hm

kinda wish I had a left handed mouse now

it never even occurred to me that those would be a thing

[serene loom]

theyre rare but they exist

[golden haven]

Im a lefty but i use my right hand for my puter

[manic parrot]

Same

Just one of the many things I grew up accustomed to not having any accommodations for

[low surge]

The real strat is to have a mouse for both sides to confuse your enemies

[sharp lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7k9YEWRObI

[restive comet]

Jorkington

[low surge]

I’m with you in the jork

Wait a minute

[serene loom]

jorkington theory is the sequel to kris goons theory

[golden haven]

What kris does in their free time is their own business not ours

[ripe harbor]

yeah, it makes sense

I'm not quite sure what it would imply about the usual route though

optimistically, collective creation that grows beyond any of its creators but incorporates all of them

otherwise, idk, accepting that its worse to try and change fate?

or maybe not try but

taking the story 'as is' instead of becoming the overriding authority of it

[ripe harbor]

idk, I feel like Noelle and her attachments are the main thing the Weird Route currently hinges on

forming that connection between (You?) and her is the thing you actually do in the Weird Route so far

her relationship with Kris and You seems critical to whatever the weird route is saying

[crimson badger]

yeah, there's something about it but I don't quite see how to fit it yet, or how to separate or contrast WR if at all

[ripe harbor]

Interestingly

I think theres something to Weird Route Noelle acting more like the Roaring Knight (Violent and alienating towards others, Strong)

while regular Noelle is fascinated by & keeps looking into the dark, even if it scares her

[restive comet]

Wtf is Jorkington Theory???

[serene loom]

^

[ripe harbor]

her blogs not full-canon, but the character trait of "reads every spam email" or "loads garbage data into her games to see what happens" probably holds up

honestly, her having a crush on susie, too

the outcast girl nobody knows

[sour mesa]

i think that could be canon too yeah

maybe

[ripe harbor]

Noelle is willing to seek out and look deeper

lmao I meant as a connecting thing about her as a person

shes easily scared, but shes not scared off? She's enthralled by poking into things she "probably shouldn't" or something

and in Weird Route you go against that

[ripe harbor]

[restive comet]

I'm just asking if that's another unironically batshit theory in the community

[serene loom]

no i was just making a joke based on your comment

[restive comet]

Okay

Sorry, I have a hard time reading sarcasm sometimes

[manic parrot]

me in the dealt runes, straight up jorking it

and by it, heh, lets' just say

my theorys

[ripe harbor]

is-is Kris Goons a real theory?

[serene loom]

yes-ish

its basically "the how to draw dragons book is actually kris's"

[ripe harbor]

what would that change lmao

[manic parrot]

nothing other than the tone of some jokes

and add slighty more fuel to an already-bright shipping fire

[ripe harbor]

oh they definitely felt some way about the scantily dressed dragon

or the "alligators in bikinis" they got smuggled by December

[serene loom]

people read way too much into the alligators thing

its music videos on MTV

[ripe harbor]

true but I am #noticing that kris' home life had a lot of revealingly dressed lizards while they were an impressionable youngling

its a funny bit

[rain lotus]

knight uses its left hand with the sword

although it switches hands when the bat turns into a sword

[manic parrot]

no i get that
although the knight actually switches ha-

yeah

[rain lotus]

it presents with the right

[manic parrot]

but like

i was wondering if there was anything to support that other than "Dess might be the Knight"

[ripe harbor]

it actually switches hands mid swing but the spritework in this game is a little wonky lmao

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-chapter-ch-3-the-gif-8006559159579773354

dab on those teens

[rain lotus]

i dont think theres much besides knight being weird + cultural connotations with left handedness probably pushing people there

[sour mesa]

it means the knight is Zelda

[ripe harbor]

if the knight = zelda why is it a girl 🤔 ?

[rain lotus]

I'd be more interested if kris was specifically left handed because it would be more copycat imagery

But handedness doesn't seem to be a conscious thing

[ripe harbor]

in most cases sprites are just 1-1 flipped, so- yeah

what hand does the Knight or Kris use? Depends on which way they're facing

[rain lotus]

kris leads right with the default battle sprite

[ripe harbor]

though I think most enemies are designed to be read facing left, and vice versa for the heroes

[rain lotus]

4 example

[ripe harbor]

Tenna has the funniest example of this

"VT"

[crimson badger]

TennaVT

[rain lotus]

ms. annet's vt emit

tenna goner theory

[sour mesa]

ever hear about the Gravity Falls fan theory that consisted almost entirely of animation errors

[manic parrot]

that... sounds like a very typical Gravity Falls fan theory

[ripe harbor]

thats one of the reasons I wouldn't want to pin too much speculation on handedness, personally

[rose swallow]

not as good as the final version, but still rad

[rain lotus]

apparently queen was gonna be so much more menacing i love how she became a zoomer aunt

[low surge]

This is probably really cool but like I can hear Attack of the Killer Queen overlapping with this and it’s making the gears in my brain grind

[rain lotus]

"Song That Might Play When You Fight Queen"

[ripe harbor]

after AotKQ was made he tried to fit this one into Berdly's battle lmao

but the vibes didn't work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAAXF8pFRoQ

I actually really like this song and wanted to use it to introduce a leitmotif, but I ended up using a more evocative song with a different motif. I'll try to make an excuse to use the song in the game somewhere.

Interested to see if & where this would come back

[rain lotus]

it rlly sounds like it would fit as chapter select music

[ripe harbor]

I wonder if the 'different motif' would've meant this would exist instead of The Holy's in all those 3+4 songs

or if its a different motif like tied to a different thing in universe

It sounds like an acoustic guitar(?), which...

[rain lotus]

god i love how after chapter 4 all legacy ralsei theories i keep coming across feel like this

https://tenor.com/view/evil-ralsei-ralsei-deltarune-deltarune-chapter-4-blood-gif-15762805989912757212

[ripe harbor]

tbf he's still hiding things from me, personally, >:(

(ontologically evil ^ btw)

I'm a normal soul I can trusted with information

[crimson badger]

Once I gain control over Kris' eyelids your reign of terror is OVER

[serene loom]

kris finally fully opens their eyes and its one of those blue eye memes except colored red

https://tenor.com/view/how-people-with-blue-eyes-look-at-you-blue-eyes-people-blink-scary-gif-3937667069785399993

[crimson badger]

"they just always burn like that huh"

[sage needle]

Kris just needs eyedrops

[crimson badger]

with how the two things we know they do when outside our control is absolutely annihilate a pie and then absolutely annihilate some chocolate milk, probably

I'm gonna be controversial and say being controlled like a videogame character might not be good for your biological functions

[rain lotus]

it's the shampoo

sadly no more tears doesn't come in apple flavor smell

[sour mesa]

yeah

[rain lotus]

i saw some really sad fanart where one of the party members remarks on how kris just kind of seems like. malnourished

borderline fainting

[crimson badger]

yeah yeah

[low surge]

Honestly evil Ralsei theories just never registered with me to begin with. He was definitely always hiding shit but I just couldn’t see him being a twist villain

[restive comet]

I just see them as a joke now

At worst, he's a shitty mentor since he tends to project his insecurities

Like telling Lancer that a Darkner's sole purpose is to serve Lightners in Ch1

I'm saying this as someone who likes him btw

[zenith iron]

the only way I can see ralsei being a twist villain is if he gets so wrapped up in his own issues he snaps persona-shadow-style, but that's not really the same thing as he was evil all along!!

[restive comet]

Also he's pretty bad to Susie sometimes, but not intentionally it seems

[restive comet]

I can sort of see that, but not happening to us

Ngl, I kinda see a bit of Toriel in him with his flaws

Specifically with not saying anything until it becomes a serious issue

Although I feel Ralsei is better at speaking his mind than Toriel

[rain lotus]

i kind of just think he's a pathetic child

he needs like, a blanket

[restive comet]

I wouldn't call him pathetic

[low surge]

Someone fancasted Bob Odenkirk as a voice for Spamton and I genuinely have no idea how I didn’t think of that before

[rain lotus]

the voice i do in my head sounds like tom kenny

[low surge]

I just can’t stop thinking of all the Better Call Saul memes

Spamtons voice rapidly oscillates between nasaly and Big Bill Hells in my mind depending on the day and the dialogue

[eager hinge]

F.F. Woodycooks spamton

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wuPXymJEldE&pp=ygUORiBmIHdvb2R5Y29va3M%3D

[ripe harbor]

I've always thought his kindness is geniune - he really does care about the other two - but I wouldn't be surprised if theres still some really nasty twists he's still keeping wraps on.

not really villainous (his ass in in the torment nexus)

but as soon as Kris / Susie / Noelle end up smacking into the consequences his actions are going to read a little harsher, probably.

don't think he really has other options though rip

[lethal ferry]

the other option is basically just telling Kris and Susie the entirety of the prophecy?
which Ralsei probably won't do. at least not willingly

[ripe harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmHVmFCChPk

grown ass Darkners lawyers trauma dumping on high schoolers within 5 minutes of meeting them

[ripe harbor]

I think the same is broadly true for Kris' choices

something is probably going to go wrong in a way that causes big issues, and it'll be their fault, and it'll make the suspicious stuff they did read worse because the consequences came due.

I'm ride or die for either though. Its what Susie would want & so its what I want 😤.

the theories where it was like "He's super manipulative" were always straight up GOOFY though

thats 100% true

[lethal ferry]

Ralsei and Kris are both in "keep committing to my horrible decision and try and make it so my friends don't get hurt or tell my friends everything, which will probably hurt them and might ruin our relationship" territory

[rain lotus]

https://www.tumblr.com/lunawolf237-is-gay/792519450667761664/so-we-agree-this-is-just-straight-up-them-yeah relevant

It's ya boi, Nebby!

So we agree this is just straight up them yeah?

-# #deltarune #kris dreemurr #susie deltarune #ralsei #portal wolves

Tumblr · Aug 21, 2025, 7:44 PM

[lethal ferry]

ye

[ripe harbor]

99% of bad decisions clear up on their own & the person you're lying to doesn't find out KEEP DOUBLING DOWN

[lethal ferry]

99% of people who do bad things for the people they care about stop before their actions pay off.

[wheat adder]

[strange cloud]

Chatroom

The January chapter 5 dream may be alive

[dense cargo]

To my uninformed mind, that seems very optimistic.

[strange cloud]

Oh it is

But I believe

[dense cargo]

Honestly, we already know that it's coming out in 2026. That's soon enough for me.

[sour mesa]

there's a new patch?

[rain lotus]

it cant come out in January, ill still have muscle memory by then

[sour mesa]

ah okay
https://bsky.app/profile/undertale.com/post/3lxbfrqodwc2l

UNDERTALE / DELTARUNE (@undertale.com)

DELTARUNE Patch 1.05 is now optionally available on a Steam beta branch. Access it using the beta branch "deltarune105".

Reposts

282

Likes

1739

Bluesky · Aug 26, 2025, 1:53 AM

[sour mesa]

https://bsky.app/profile/robablo.bsky.social/post/3lrjih6b6xc2x

Robablo Comics (@robablo.bsky.social)

Finally invited Noelle to the Dark World...

Reposts

166

Likes

645

Bluesky · Jun 13, 2025, 10:31 PM

[restive comet]

ASDFGHJKL

[strange cloud]

Man, this game coming out when I was a teen was crazy because Kris was kinda perfectly suited to make me want to be them

And that was before I knew I was bisexual, let alone gender-fluid

[sharp lodge]

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1n0opq8

cw for knife party

i love the way this person draws dess
she looks so sinister

[low surge]

I definitely have come around to the possibility that Dess might not have been such a great person (a la Adriel’s dialogue from UT). Not that she was anywhere close to Chara tier, but it might be interesting she isn’t the wholly innocent lost girl everyone is expecting

[ripe harbor]

shes at the very least seemingly the type of person to go poking around in fucked up shelters

https://bsky.app/profile/undercover1martyn.bsky.social/post/3lxcoxsm6322k

undercover martyn (@undercover1martyn.bsky.social)

Someone’s listening

1/2

#deltarune #asrieldreemurr #dessholiday

Bluesky · Aug 26, 2025, 2:10 PM

https://bsky.app/profile/undercover1martyn.bsky.social/post/3lxcozyoylc2k

undercover martyn (@undercover1martyn.bsky.social)

-# ↩ undercover martyn (@undercover1martyn.bsky.social)
2/2

#deltarune #asrieldreemurr #dessholiday

Bluesky · Aug 26, 2025, 2:11 PM

I liked these ones too

[low surge]

Same

I headcanon Asriel is absolutely dreading coming home

[ripe harbor]

what if it turns out Dess was "Lost" long before she ever went missing

[low surge]

Entirely possible

At the very least something was up

The way her bed is facing and the survival gear (granted which could either just be from her hobbies or she was expecting something)

And if the shelter needed a code, she had to have taken time to figure it out (unless it was opened from the inside)

[serene loom]

i very much read dess as "that older cousin whos into edgy stuff but is pretty chill"

she watches MTV and plays horror games and writes rock music and makes fake concert posters and goes exploring in the woods and collects surplus military stuff

[ripe harbor]

Yeah I saw it more as her being the type to take action, or being outdoorsy

[serene loom]

and its all pretty stereotypical typical teen rebellion stuff too, especially for the pseudo-90s era DR is set in

[ripe harbor]

though they could overlap. She was outdoorsy enough to get a sense something weird was going on

[serene loom]

shes the rich kid from the well respected family who just wants to be normal

[strange cloud]

I just can’t imagine Dess as like, malicious or cruel when we have this

I know the Noelle blog posts are of dubious canon but they were still written by Toby

[low surge]

Malicious and cruel not exactly, but I get this sense there was a darkness inside her. If it was wholly self destructive or not can’t say yet, but it seems that it roped Kris into this somehow

[ripe harbor]

at the very least, if shes the Knight, nothing but those parts remain

well almost nothing, I guess

[timber widget]

https://www.tumblr.com/miggsboson/792599151910305792 long post, lots of images

Fart Blahg

🔁 miggsboson

HOLY COW ANOTHER TOGORE COMIC! This time he watches the Cowboy Show

with Asgore! and KRi s

This one is togore TASTIC

Ice-E Cowboy....

Tumblr · Aug 22, 2025, 4:50 PM

[sage needle]

I love having emotions about Togore

[low surge]

I don’t care what anyone says he’s canon to me

[low surge]

This is so good

[delicate cave]

My uncle who works at Nintendo says togore is the secret boss of chapter 5

[dense cargo]

Where did this Togore thing come from anyways?

[sage needle]

I think it was one of those "I remember you're genocides" memes where Asgore has bleeding red eyes and yells YOU KILLED MY SECRET SON TOGORE DREEMUR

Because Asriel is just a portmanteau of Asgore and Toriel so Togore is just the other way around

[ripe harbor]

the sprite seems to be from

a deltarune roblox rp server

the name as a joke is ancient

[dense cargo]

The source of all good things in life, then.

[ripe harbor]

huh, just realized 'digital roots' is a specific math pun

https://mathworld.wolfram.com/DigitalRoot.html

for (repeatedly) crunching a number's digits down to a single digit through addition

thats only really notable because Bit Roots is playing on the same idea of small units of information

• Airwaves and everything going on in it

the 'song from the sea' and an incredibly mixed up radio transmission might not be too different, honestly

[serene loom]

look at this guy, didnt even learn about digital roots from hit videogame franchise Zero Escape

[ripe harbor]

it was someone talking about it that made me realize lmao

[serene loom]

its extra fucked up in 999 because its specifically about doing digital roots to words

or no, im mixing up two different things, its just regular digital roots

the word numerology thing is something else

the digital roots thing was a neat mechanic though, very good way to force characters to split up

[ripe harbor]

hmm

both of the characters the Knight's brutally attacked on screen were characters who produce light?

Wonder if that means anything

Theres that Shuttah who credits Tenna for keeping the place from looking like 'purple cliffs'

Maybe the Knight needs the same sort of environment. It does look near exactly like the spawn.

Could be driven by the same instinct as the titans, even. To reach for / smother light?