Undertale and Deltarune

[ripe harbor]

Susie is seen as, or sees herself as a bully at that point in the story

Other characters see Noelle and Kris as close, or its how one or the other sees their relationship?

idk I'm spitballing

[strange cloud]

Kris’s repeated focus on being able to see through their hands is another thing

[low surge]

*You thought you saw Noelle close against you, whispering. [Noelle's House, Chapter 4]
You put the glass to your ear...
... of course, that didn't do anything...

[strange cloud]

With both the shadow crystal lines and the backrooms 1225 secret

[ripe harbor]

and the chapter 4 egg room

with a 'monochrome smear' of grey paint on their hand

[low surge]

I wonder if that’s got anything to do with holes in the hands of the knight and mystery man or its literal severing of their hand

If the holes mean something

[ripe harbor]

maybe a double meaning, bloody hands + goner hand?

[strange cloud]

I mean, it could be related to Dess? The 1225 secret is obviously about looking for her but then the shadow crystals also seem somehow related to her just because they’re related to the knight and are maybe her tears

[ripe harbor]

hands also represent agency

which ties into a lot of bits around Kris, their worries, and their issues

[low surge]

Hand stuff could be about identity and agency? one of Kris clearest passions is piano

Beat me to it

[ripe harbor]

piano's also a good shout

[low surge]

Even outside of our control Kris doesn’t have much agency in their life

[strange cloud]

Yah, also the whole religious theming of holes in the hand

So could have something to do with self sacrifices

Like Gaster is already associated with the devil and the Angel is an important part of this game

I can’t not think of Jesus when I think of holes in your hands

[low surge]

Yup

[strange cloud]

Is Dess, monster Jesus?

Yes

[ripe harbor]

or punishment

[strange cloud]

Oh shit yah

Noelle was also crucified that one time

[low surge]

Susie’s bloody hand too

[ripe harbor]

on a hand even lmao

[low surge]

And the mark on Ralsei

[strange cloud]

Toby fox is a hack

[low surge]

Jesus I never picked up on all this hand stuff until now

[strange cloud]

Noelle in chapter 5

[low surge]

Also with the sleeves she makes the outline of a snow angel

How she always tried to make the biggest snow angels

[ripe harbor]

I was a bit suspicious when it was snuck in here chapter 2. The other two were directly mentioned, hands kinda slips right in even though it wasn't as big a theme.

[low surge]

Or rather Dess would make hers bigger

[strange cloud]

Which Dess always helped her with

[strange cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-mike-pippin-green-conspiracy-gif-5869661353018453933

[ripe harbor]

with Cat Petterz I wouldn't be surprised if Element 6 is the 'Hand' element or something

[strange cloud]

Also the knight’s prophecy having 2 hands grasp their knife

[ripe harbor]

luckily there are no other hand-associated characters with a relationship to the number 6

in Deltarune

so its unlikely to come up again

[low surge]

Gaster is unimportant and all your theories are wrong. Goodbye

[strange cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/gaster-undertale-undertale-gaster-kiss-gaster-undertale-gif-17394065689991034837

[low surge]

Toby Fox really set up this one fucking guy over a decade ago just to have a payoff that would drive players into psychosis

[strange cloud]

I will soon spend more of my life being excited for Gaster to show up then I will have spent my life not knowing about Gaster

And that frightens me

To my core

[ripe harbor]

He's like some Wing of Royal Scientist.....

Its more complicated now because Friend and Gaster are fighting for what obscure ominous motifs are whos

Some are pretty easy

[strange cloud]

Unfortunately friend is a fraud who could not match my royal goat

[ripe harbor]

Pink & Yellow, probably That Cat. Wingdings and the glowy voice, the Doctor

mus_smile, garbage noise? idk

Shadow Crystals? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[strange cloud]

Here’s the thing, whether it’s friend or Gaster giving them out

The secret bosses are still Gaster pilled

Jevil and Seam especially has several references to stuff like entry 17

Or at least seam does

I think Jevil does but it’s been a while

[strange cloud]

Gaster being a bum may be my favorite headcanon for him

He’s to busy aura farming in the depths to raise his children

[ripe harbor]

I just love the gang of 'Every character ambigiously related to Gaster' as his kids on the left

it gets me every time

[ripe harbor]

ya

& Entry 17 (from room_gaster) is 100% Gaster connected

but its not not also related to Darkness itself

and theres a question of it that distinction matters, the meta fact that all this stuff was going to be really closely associated to Gaster, etc...

Its why Friend seeming to get more importance makes Gaster's calling cards more ambigious

who was Phone?

Especially when Mantle, right before you meet the 'speaker', ties the Mysterious Phone Caller into Tenna's backstory as well

and sets it up as an ongoing mystery

[analog burrow]

Yeah

[ripe harbor]

If FRIEND was the phone caller, is mus_smile a FRIEND related thing?

the 'garbage noise' thats a slowed and mirrored clip of laughter?

[analog burrow]

And also all the stuff with the knight and Kris’s allegiance

[ripe harbor]

oh thats the most plot important bit to the whole thing, imo

Thats the main point of it

[analog burrow]

Cause Kris collecting the crystals seems to separate from whatever they’re colluding with the knight for

[ripe harbor]

You play Mantle, and the reveal is that Tenna is working on Kris' orders

before you get the much subtler hints in the Knight Fight itself

[ripe harbor]

This is another reason I'm hesitant to tie the Knight too strongly to all the crystals

The Shadow Mantle is what you use to fight the Knight

[analog burrow]

yeah, and if the Knight’s grand plan involved Kris getting the crystals, It doesn’t make much sense for them to be hidden

[ripe harbor]

Meanwhile the Shadow Mantle holder wants to see Kris face a challenge to get their reward, outright

[analog burrow]

Quote from nightmare regarding your search for the crystals:
Kris... oh... Kris... Is it fun, Kris? Playing around like this... That's why you're searching for them, aren't you? The SHADOW CRYSTALs... ... and the SHADOW MANTLE that I'm holding! Do you honestly think it'll get you what you want...? ... no, part of you is just... enjoying this, isn't it?

[ripe harbor]

I never really see people talk about that second to last line, either

Its still addressed to Kris

what do they want?

Freedom? To Find Her?

oh in terms of what the Mantle is

I just assumed it was a literal shadow given form

like a personal shadow as an item

[analog burrow]

Well, they do say fun is why you/kris are searching for them

[ripe harbor]

I read it as kind of the opposite

[restive comet]

Part of me wonders if The Shadow Crystals could be formed from Dess breaking through The Knight and trying to leave a trail to help free her

[ripe harbor]

they ask if it's fun, because they seem to doubt it will 'get you what you want', before deciding it doesn't matter anyway

and you/kris are enjoying the search itself

[analog burrow]

yeah actually, there’s plenty of ways to read the first few lines

[ripe harbor]

yeah, maybe a complete enough set will allow you to do to the knight

what the crystals do to the Dark Worlds

look at it from another angle, see Dess instead of THE ROARING KNIGHT

[analog burrow]

~~and on the other hand, you can make them into a cool fantasy sword 😎 ~~

[ripe harbor]

TRUE

sorry Noelle

your sister doesn't have anything on this sick knife skin

Gaster does seem interested in you pursuing the Shadow Crystals

though idk if he cares about the crystals themselves

talks to you & helps you retry during the Knight fight

and yeah, the Seam quotes for Entry 17 in chapter 1 are very blatant

[strange cloud]

I think that’s less because of the shadow crystal and more because the knight is the only required loss fight that you can win instead of lose

[ripe harbor]

He seems interested in the ways Fate can be 'made'

[strange cloud]

Yah

[ripe harbor]

make a 'new future' with him, his Deltarune being completed

[strange cloud]

Also in us

Personally

Perhaps

Romantically?

[ripe harbor]

your power, the souls power, seems to be

the ability to put a thumb on the scale, to twist fate

[strange cloud]

Also important, to keep trying

Over and over again

[ripe harbor]

and as the chapters go on theres more outcomes that we can change(?)

like you said with the Knight

Maybe the soul isnt strong or connected enough before Chapter 3 to do that

Maybe Gaster is interested on where the limits of that sort of ability lie?

Cause it doesn't matter how much you try again in chapter 2, Giga Queen still blows up your mech

[analog burrow]

Oh yeah random thought: If the ShadowCrystals are dreams, then the fact you can combine the completed PureCrystal with the ThornRing to make to make the Twisted Sword could be something

[ripe harbor]

& add the thorn ring to the jesus symbolism, too

this is why the Mantle Holder, and what their deal is, is such a compelling mystery

they're tied to Kris' backstory, to the weird route, maybe to the Secret Bosses in general, seems like we'll see them again - they've got plans...

a lot would click into place with just a few more answers

[analog burrow]

God, I cannot wait for chapter 5

[low surge]

I wonder if chapter 5 will be when we have more of an explanation for the shadow crystals

Since that’s the last one we need to make whatever it is Seam said they could

I also figure it’ll probably be when we get more soul explanation

Chapter 5 I think is going to answer a lot of major questions, or at least I think it will if the ideas that chapter 6 is the end with chapter 7 being a reinterpretation of the prophecy as some people have been thinking. Even if not, we have set ups for major stuff between Asgore and the conspiracy, Susie seeing the soul, the final crystal etc etc

[strange cloud]

I definitely think 5 is like, the answers chapter

With 6 and 7 being the fallout of those answers

Chargers 3/4/5 were meant to be released all at the same time and you can feel it

So many things feel so close to getting proper answers

[low surge]

Would make perfect sense to me

[strange cloud]

Waking up in a cold sweat,

I gotta write a Krusielle fic

[low surge]

True

[strange cloud]

The only question: do I do soul possessed Kris or normal Kris?

[low surge]

A few nights ago I was struck by a vision of a Dessriel angst comic and now I’m saving up money for a drawing pad so I can hopefully one day allow it to escape my brain

[strange cloud]

Because any Kris ship has radically different vibes if Kris is possessed or not

[strange cloud]

This is what happened to Toby Fox in Hussie’s basement

[low surge]

Do you want Greek tragedy or no?

[strange cloud]

That really is the question lol

[low surge]

What is it with this fandom and dreams man? Toby with deltarune, a bunch of people with fan art, a guy who almost perfectly predicted Tenna months in advance because of a dream

[strange cloud]

Every relationship Kris has goes from normal to cosmic tragedy if the soul is involved of. It

[strange cloud]

Genuinely don’t know

But following these releases I’ve had several Deltarune related dreams

None so, artistic though

One of them it was running after a person with a hole in their face who I thought was Dess, and then Gaster showed up as a 2 sprite, got spooked and ran away

[low surge]

Toby Fox successfully creating the Malkavian Madness Network in real life

[strange cloud]

I legitimately saw Gaster in the fog created when cleaning a sheet pan

I think I have a problem

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/wing-gaster-gaster-fnfy-gaster-dance-wd-gaster-gif-10405120004955102234

[golden haven]

Reminds me of an idea i had years ago

Of Kris having feelings for (character of choice, for example lets say Susie)

And the soul is aware but doesnt care/ignorant of these feelings and uses its influence to make Kris say they just want to be friends and nothing more with (character)

[strange cloud]

Yah I have actually seen some comics and fic that work off that idea

Mostly for Krusie

[golden haven]

Dang
That was one of my first posts on tumblr somewhere

[strange cloud]

Rip

Also, part of me wants to take like, the opposite approach lol

[low surge]

Wait wait this reminded me I also was struck by a divine ray of light for an Asgore/Rudy comic as well I gotta write that one down before it’s gone again

[strange cloud]

Of the soul being an universe shipper and trying to get Kris to say their feelings, but with the obvious issue of that’s kinda fucked up

Like the soul thinks it’s helping but it is absolutely still an invasion of consent

[strange cloud]

Oh what?

[low surge]

Vague idea is before the events of the game (some nebulous time after the divorce when Asgore is trying to set life the place) Asgore has poker night at Flower King with some of the other characters and Rudy stops by, after everyone else leaves and they reminisce on their college days Asgore (not so) jokingly brings up “that summer” and how they could always just ditch town and all their problems together and Rudy has to hit him with the reality of their lives and how he’s happy (or as happy as a man with a missing daughter can be) and Asgore can’t keep chasing the past

[strange cloud]

Dare I say peak?

[low surge]

Toby Fox himself sent the god particle that burnt it into my brain

[strange cloud]

It’s insane how they haven’t spoken once together on screen but Rudy and Asgore have such a clear dynamic

And also absolutely fucked one summer in college before they both got together with their respective wives

[golden haven]

Totally

[strange cloud]

This is the gayest thing I’ve ever read

And I’ve read actual gay smut

[low surge]

Asgore really fumbled the love of his life twice it’s so over

[strange cloud]

There’s never been a man with a worse romantic history

[low surge]

This is my goat

[strange cloud]

Unfortunately, your goat is washed

Perhaps

He’s always been washed

[low surge]

Being washed is part of the appeal just wait till he pulls up in chapter 5

[strange cloud]

Aura will be regained

[low surge]

We could always run away together Rudy haha as a joke of course we could start a bed and breakfast at that old lake house just for a laugh hahaha it’s still there I went there the other day and we could prank everyone and I’d do the gardening and you could handle the business side and we could dance together under the porch lights at night wouldn’t that be hilarious Rudy just as a joke of course I want you I’m joking just joking

[strange cloud]

This is Rudygore to me

Just replace lesbian with bisexual

[low surge]

Absolutely

Sad older men yaoi

[ripe harbor]

Three days after finishing the chapters I saw in my dreams. I havent had any other DR related ones.

😰

my ass is getting Sheltered for sure

[strange cloud]

Oh man… now I really wanna do a fic where Kris is hanging out with Susie and Noelle and the soul suddenly gets an option to admit Kris’s feelings before Kris does something drastic to stop them from choosing that

[low surge]

Scout actually going insane arc

[strange cloud]

You’re going to follow the tail which should not be followed soon

[low surge]

Cooked

[ripe harbor]

my punishment for thinking about theories as I fall asleep

[strange cloud]

Make sure to tell us if you find a weird looking game controller in your house soon

[low surge]

Bitches be like I got my whole life ahead of be 😂 no you don’t the tail that must not be followed is coming

[ripe harbor]

I think about this one a lot

[strange cloud]

…he just said it

[restive comet]

Is he implying that he thinks Santa and Rudolph were secretly gay lovers?

[strange cloud]

I mean, their main exposure to human culture was random dvds

So it’s very possible yes

A lot of yaoi is probably stored in waterfall

[ripe harbor]

theres also whatever this is

[ripe harbor]

Battle Against a Hero

[low surge]

Let’s not forget the following dialogue

[strange cloud]

Not to agree with Berdly, however yes there is no non romantic way to interpret this gesture

[strange cloud]

Is every one of his alarm clock dialogues him reminiscing on his dead gay lover?

[ripe harbor]

literally like yes

and then talking about how Noelle is nice and he hopes she makes lots of friends

[strange cloud]

She doesn’t see the vision

Shit is Carol ever mentioned in the alarm clock dialogue?

Or is she just like, presumed around?

[ripe harbor]

Susie is just a level 1 Fujo rn, shes stuck trying to get Ralsei on Lover's Bay or whatever that TV board thing was

she doesnt understand old man yearning yet

[ripe harbor]

No, except vaguely

Actually very interestingly the oldest version is missing either Carol or Dess

[strange cloud]

Friend kidnapping the holiday family because they’re bored:

[ripe harbor]

yeah

so the published 5th anniversary one is on the left

the right is the unpublished stuff Toby released before that, when the clock was scrapped

left is just Rudy and 'youngest' daughter, implied another child

[strange cloud]

Does that mean the “he was my Rudolph” line was scrapped?

[ripe harbor]

right is Rudy, wife and daughter, no clarifier

nah

that one made it in

https://undertale.com/alarmclock/

the sites still up

[strange cloud]

[ripe harbor]

Asgores is actually the last one, probably because it had the Deltarune hinting stuff

[strange cloud]

Makes sense

[ripe harbor]

see this shows you how plot important their 'warrior's bond' is

Toby fox changing everything but the Yaoi lines when remaking the Alarm Clock Dialogues:

[strange cloud]

LOL

Toby fox will ensure yaoi and yuri

That is a guarantee

[ripe harbor]

These dialogues imply sans knows about fortnite btw

[strange cloud]

That makes sense

Sans would know that

[ripe harbor]

just every so often as a treat he throws the straights a bone

[strange cloud]

Is sans x Toriel like, the only popular straight undertale ship?

I can’t think of any others

Not counting Deltarune anyway

[low surge]

Dessriel (still gay)

[sour mesa]

undertale has

hm

[strange cloud]

…though even counting that that adds like Dessriel and Ralsusie which is still not super popular

[low surge]

Yeah it’s just Sans and Toriel in Undertale

I can’t think of anyone else

[strange cloud]

…does selfshipping with sans count?

[ripe harbor]

no, because then we'd have to count the people who selfship with Spamton

[low surge]

Toby Fox reveals that you, the player, are in fact gay too

[strange cloud]

The player’s gender is up to Kris’s interpretation

[ripe harbor]

Oh yeah in DR Mew Mew kind of hits on Asgore

and Alphys has a sort of crush on him in UT

[strange cloud]

Yah but I never see like shipping content of those two

Just acknowledgements that they have crushes on Asgore

Alphys saying he’s huge and could kick her ass

[low surge]

Subtle Noelle Foreshadowing

[sour mesa]

yeah textual support and fandom activity are a little different

[strange cloud]

True!

[ripe harbor]

When you're trying to crack the Gaster Code Mysteries and you get hit with that "Sans can remember resets" stare smh

[sour mesa]

it was crazy when frisk got jumped by eight different versions of sans for killing papyrus

what did toby mean by this

[ripe harbor]

Something funny about the Knight (and maybe the Titan?) is both are much clearer about having big holes or wounds on their hands than the super vague MysteryMan sprite

[foggy python]

resetting every time sans does his hand trick so he's conditioned to think that his little joke is the only thing holding back the anomaly

[strange cloud]

It’s still the funniest thing looking back that eventually the pretenses of an AU were dropped in the fandom

And people just started doing into the sansverse

[ripe harbor]

people really looked at this and went "yeah thats obviously a turtleneck"

[strange cloud]

An “AU” that’s just a sans

[ripe harbor]

just very funny

[sour mesa]

gaster v neck truthers

[ripe harbor]

I joined after all this already happened and its like a morbid curiosity

[strange cloud]

Ok to be fair I do think the holes are intentional, it’s just a lot more obvious on his surprised sprite

[ripe harbor]

why sans specifically

[strange cloud]

He was just the most popular character from the game mostly

So most fanworks was about him

And by extension, most AUs

[low surge]

Yea

Sans was easily the fandom favorite for years and years

[sour mesa]

sans is a funny guy who knows more than he lets on, which is fruitful for hooking into original fanlore

[strange cloud]

Like, every AU of note tended to start with sans and papyrus

The only exception was like, underfell I think which started with Toriel

[ripe harbor]

hmm

[sour mesa]

my "why does this have so many AUs so quickly" question was answered as soon as I read Homestuck,

[ripe harbor]

I guess UT doesn't really have a protag cast like DR to hook it off instead

[strange cloud]

Most AUs began as someone wanting to draw a sans and papyrus with a specific theme in mind, then the rest of the major cast, and then the underground as a whole

[strange cloud]

Yah, frisk doesn’t have nearly as much to chew on as Kris does

And obviously there’s no one like Susie, Ralsei and Noelle

[low surge]

I actually think Ralsusie is cute even if it’s not my favorite, really any ship involving the “main” four works really well except Ralsei and Noelle since they don’t really get any interactions

[strange cloud]

Same

I like ralsusie, but also I’m not like, super super attached to it

Not like I am Krusielle and Kralsei

[low surge]

I think it also helps that Kris has an established place and dynamic in Deltarune as opposed to Frisk who’s purely an outsider

They’ve got a lot more implied history and relationships to build off of more organically

[strange cloud]

Yah, the only interactions frisk has with the rest of the cast is the stuff we see on screen

It’s not like Deltarune where there’s so much implied stuff between the cast

Well obviously there’s a lot implied for the undertale cast, just nothing with frisk

[ripe harbor]

I understand Ralsusie more than Kralsei

but I think its just because Kris and Ralsei's relationship is least interesting out of the main 4 that actually exists, to me. Doesn't hook me.

[strange cloud]

I disagree personally, I love these two agenda filled weirdos

And their many plans

The forbidden knowledge besties

[ripe harbor]

I just don't know how they play off each other with it

because they're keeping me out of the hidden agenda plans 💀

[low surge]

Behind the scenes shipping

[ripe harbor]

I think Kris likes Ralsei, and vice versa, idk why they're friends

[low surge]

You do NOT get to see

[strange cloud]

Fair lol

[ripe harbor]

this might change when Ralsei has his big moments in the next few chapters

[strange cloud]

Yah

[ripe harbor]

He's a slower burn type character

[strange cloud]

We gotta learn what they’re scheming about like, eventually

[ripe harbor]

The set up is good, and he does make other characters more interesting, and you need the set up for the payoff-

but its a consequence of the story structure that he's not as big a presence as the other 3

Chapter 4 was really good for him

[strange cloud]

Yah that’s fair

I really hope chapter 5 is like

A Ralsei chapter

[sour mesa]

potential goat

[ripe harbor]

I'm pretty interested to see if Asgore is more interested in him than Susie

[strange cloud]

I seriously think so

[ripe harbor]

as an inverse to how most Darkner bosses just ignored or sidelined Ralsei

[low surge]

I know we shouldn’t be looking for patterns but I really feel like chapter 5 will be the Ralsei chapter

[strange cloud]

Asgore doesn’t really seem to care about Susie much

Just acknowledging her as Kris’s friend

Not like Toriel does anyway

[ripe harbor]

while Asgore doesn't really know Susie, and is seeing a guy who looks similar to his son but younger + shares his own softer traits

[ripe harbor]

95% of theorists quit just before cracking the invisible structures of the narrative

[low surge]

True!

[ripe harbor]

Chapter 5 will probably have.... a BOSS battle....

and- a shop

[strange cloud]

Smh

Insert the Gerson quote

[low surge]

I’m old

[strange cloud]

The other Gerson quote

[dense cargo]

I was very disappointed to see there were no fullscreen shops in chapters 3 and 4.

Hope chapter 5 makes up for it.

[strange cloud]

Same tbh

I miss them

https://www.tumblr.com/deceseze/790549479310917632/he-cant-do-any-of-that-as-far-as-he-knows

reblog hog

he can't do any of that. as far as he knows, anyway

-# #undertale #deltarune #toby fox #gaster #WD gaster #roaring knight #dess holiday #fan art

Tumblr · Jul 31, 2025, 1:52 AM

[ripe harbor]

I had to track this down

[strange cloud]

BRIGHT

[ripe harbor]

SIX shops. All fullscreen.

for each flower

[strange cloud]

One for each flower

Shit

[ripe harbor]

you have to open your own shop

and

buy out their properties through market economics

(this is a representation of Asgore's poor financial situation)

[strange cloud]

Turns out the entire dark world was made by asgore to teach Kris financial responsibility

[dense cargo]

This would be satisfactory.

[ripe harbor]

trust the process

Asgore Chapter 5 Fiscal Route is REAL

[strange cloud]

Actually

Genuine question: what role do y’all think the flowers will play in the dark world?

[ripe harbor]

I wouldn't mind one Darkner formed from all of them collectively, but most people want 6

If the main bosses of the previous chapters sometimes acted as reflections of the Lightner's parents, it could be reversed?

Each flower is Asgore's 'child'?

[dense cargo]

Super Sentai reference.

[ripe harbor]

so his relationship to them might mirror his family issues in the same way Queen mirrors Noelle and her mom

[dense cargo]

(not actually what I think, but it could work)

[strange cloud]

I’m imagining them as like, his Royal confidants

They are the things he tells everything too

[ripe harbor]

If theres 6 they'll probably reference the Fallen Humans

[strange cloud]

I do think so

The miss mizzle dialogue does imply they have distinct personalities

With her mentioning a blue one as separate from them all

[dense cargo]

They might end up being the ones keeping Asgore "in Asylum".

If he doesn't do that to himself

[ripe harbor]

They may also be the people who get jealous

in Gersons retelling of the story

Esp because at least part of Asgore's motivation for creating the dark world(? if he does) seems to be to get his 'real' family back

Surely he'll get undivorced if he just shows them that Hell is Real and also ate Dess.

[strange cloud]

That’s true

There were no other underlying issues to their marriage

None

At

All

[low surge]

Things would have been so much different if the town psychologist and therapist Mr Gaster hadn’t up and vanished one day

[strange cloud]

The forgotten man being Kris’s former therapist who got gastered one day is maybe my favorite theory

Because it truly is just

The most fucked thing to happen to Kris

Not even their therapist is safe from being sent to the depths

[low surge]

“Hey Kris how’s it going buddy! Today I think we should talk abo-“ 🖐️ 🫳 🫱 🫳 🫱 👐 🫱 🫲 🤙

[strange cloud]

Also Chatroom, I think I disagree with the general fandom again (shocking I know) about Ralsei’s fate at the end of the game

Mostly, I really don’t think this game is going to end with Ralsei dying or sacrificing himself for the message of “you can’t hold onto escapism forever” because importantly, Ralsei isn’t just a tool for escapism

It’s becoming increasingly clear he and all the darkners are their own people

They have their own wants, their own needs, their own thoughts and beliefs

They can’t just be tossed aside because they aren’t real, because it’s clear they’re just as real as any of the lightners

[dense cargo]

Yeah agree with you. It would be very strange if Ralsei died as part of an anti-escapism message, it's really not the direction the game has taken so far imo. I also don't think that the prophecy is predicting his death, in general.

[strange cloud]

Yah, ralsei himself is the primary proponent of this anti escapism idea

And he also has a room with literally nothing in it because he thinks he doesn’t deserve or need possessions

He’s clearly working through his own thing

[ripe harbor]

It would be very strange for him to not lead with it

if thats the tragic end

[ripe harbor]

(I think the inverse is also fun- Lightners are just as unreal as Darkners. "Its what they call 'you'.")

[strange cloud]

Yah

The lightners are importantly, not real either

They’re video game characters!

[ripe harbor]

Whats the metric you use to measure personhood

well I don't even get super meta, though thats true too

[strange cloud]

In a video game that knows it’s a video game

Their world is only more realistic on a surface level

But practically, they’re both as unrealistic as each other

Because both aren’t real

[ripe harbor]

ya, though even in the metaphorical sense

the Light World and Lightners also live influenced by 'fictions'

[strange cloud]

Yah

[ripe harbor]

like this

[strange cloud]

Unironically yah asgore is more delusional then most darkners

[ripe harbor]

If Asgore makes it a part of his Identity that he's a Family Man™, what does it mean when he has no family?

What parts of you can be taken away and still be 'you'?

Is The Roaring Knight still meaningfully Papyrus Dess?

Is Dess still 'real'?

I think the general thrust of the story is these boundaries and distinctions are more fluid than a lot of people suspect

Is Ralsei less real than Dess? What would make Ralsei less real than Dess?

[strange cloud]

It’s why Kris being controlled by us is so key

Are they still real anymore?

They’re playing 2 roles

Both as protagonist and antagonist

[ripe harbor]

I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of thinking, or things like "Was I ever real?" is what turns you into something like the Roaring Knight

given how perception seems to shape Dark Worlds

& the direction the Unused text speaker takes in chapters 3 and 4

you become indistinct, you Forget Yourself

[strange cloud]

Yah

[ripe harbor]

and thats not even the ominous reason the soul's needed for Kris / the other conspirators plan

[strange cloud]

Kris, willingly or not, had become a vessel for someone else

[ripe harbor]

that they need it when doing Dark World stuff

for some reason

[strange cloud]

They can be themselves, but only for short bursts

[strange cloud]

And the knight importantly, still clearly has some traits

It’s cocky, it taunts you, it laughs at Susie’s overconfidence

[ripe harbor]

I like how sharp they are

literally the edges have been sanded down

[strange cloud]

The knight may not be “Dess” anymore, but it’s still “Dess”

Whatever being “Dess” means anyway

[ripe harbor]

CORE TRAITS OF DESS HOLIDAY:

• aurafarm
• baseball bat

[strange cloud]

Exactly

[ripe harbor]

Gerson kind of touches on this as well

He's 100% a Darkner. That doesn't mean he isn't Gerson.

in the same way that Tenna is the Dreemurr's CRT

[strange cloud]

Yah

[ripe harbor]

If that makes you feel a little unsteady in your own identity, and what makes you real, good! I think thats the point!

[strange cloud]

Yah, Jackenstein oddly enough is a really interesting example

[ripe harbor]

thats also why I think the Dark Worlds have been getting more intrusive into the Light World as chapters go on. Less easy to segment off in terms of their influence.

I think theres a real chance the framing flips during the Roaring, and Hometown becomes as unreachable / unreal

at least until the crisis ends

[strange cloud]

Yah the save points being in the light world are so fucking cool

[strange cloud]

Always bet on merged dark and light worlds

[strange cloud]

Also going back to this, the church dark world is effectively, mimicking the actual hierarchy of the church’s importance

Putting things that only show up for special events away, and the sanctuary’s mimicking that by having those things exist in the outskirts of their societ

Jackenstein and the ghosts, the old organ that got replaced

Things put away that are no longer used are no longer important to the lightners, so they’re cast away from the sanctuary’s society

[ripe harbor]

true

[ripe harbor]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1micoin/why_cat_and_puppet_go_together/

oh a pretty nice looking set of images

related to that thing I mentioned earlier about Element 6

He / Him-ing Eram
shm losing woke points for that

idk if I fully support this interpretation

but if you're willing to get a little speculative on Gaster as maybe tied to Element 6, Possession / Control, or Connection is probably the unifying theme, yeah

Phones, Hands, links-of-circles, String, making deals,

Stitchwork, Video Game Controllers, our 'Connection' - the thing all these elements share

There might be something to Shapeshifting (If Friend does that) and Spamton's [[Funky Text]] too. Element 6 as mimicry, Copy / Cat?

[sharp lodge]

i do like that person's idea that FRIEND is a minion of something else
idk if i buy that it's eram though

[ripe harbor]

I could see that too with Puppet / Cats as being 'servants' to something else

esp with that 'Always at your humblest service' dialogue

Though Friend's design (Eyes that look at the player, laughter, an actual face) gives the vibe whatever it is has a will

or at least a personality

If it weren't for that & the nods toward a Cat themed boss later (Through the Elemental system and especially the Dealmaker's resist) I'd probably lean in that direction

and so far its gotta be Seam or Friend. Unless Catti has a wildly different role than I'm expecting.

actually something they missed if they wanted to link Cats to Hell

Mike Room's lock, which is Friend's face, pretty much just gives it demon horns.

the idea that the Shadow Mantle Boss and the Friends are the same entity is pretty much what I think, though.

[sharp lodge]

didn't king have the shadow mantle or did we just assume he did? he had a cloak that floated off on its own before his fight in ch1

[ripe harbor]

idk, he had a mantle, not sure if he had the Shadow Mantle

Someone took Seam's Mantle at some point, and the Mantle boss ends up giving you the same item after you beat it.

In both cases, Seam is taken by surprise, so I just gut feeling think the person who stole it and the person who gave it to you are the same.

King might've had it before or in the middle of all this, it really doesn't change much

The boss you fight in Mantle is also 100% just the Shadow Mantle

[rose swallow]

despite the name, I'm starting to get a bit of a suspicion that this FRIEND character might not be very friendly

[strange cloud]

FRIEND is no friend of mine

[ripe harbor]

I like the vending machine where the smile is 'Free' but it still takes a point from you

I don't even know how to take it

Is it so assoociated with 'freedom' that even with a price its still 'Free'? Or is it that interacting with it always has a price, even if it doesn't seem so? Both?

Is it just having a giggle havin' a laff?

[rose swallow]

i think at a certain point you need to accept that the games are silly

i wonder what the lore implications are of the part in undertale where frisk crawls around under the covers while bongo drums play?
In the original culture, the large bongo is referred to as "male" and the smaller bongo is referred to as "female". Perhaps it's symbolizing how Frisk has mixed gender feelings but covers them up from society.

[ripe harbor]

true but its generally pretty good at mixing the silly with the serious

"Smells like frozen chicken" type flavor text

the comedy in the Sword route is the poop-music, Ramb's dialogue, and the video game parody bits. But Kris flinching away as their friends are killed in game or struggling against you as you approach the bunker is still #realshit.

Friend (or whoevers backstage)'s one of the characters like Gaster or the Knight where I'm willing to take them a little bit more seriously, whenever it looks like they're involved.

They got that stench of Narrative Import about them

[analog burrow]

The flowers are gonna be a big happy family, calling it now

Basically a rose tinted mirror of the Holidays/Dreemurs before the incident

[analog burrow]

Yeah, Toby’s really good at leveraging all the fun, light-hearted, and silly moments to make the serious parts hit harder.

[sharp lodge]

https://old.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1mixjup/i_hope_kris_can_take_susie_to_the_festival/?ref=share&ref_source=link

https://old.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1miox5q/deltarune_chapter_4_soul_is_unbreakable/

[scarlet wadi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hDq9lyvUWU

[low surge]

Holy FUCK

Best part best opening

It’s peak

Absolutely

[merry arrow]

Banging cover my man

[merry arrow]

Third Sanctuary is such a good song, but it's also hilarious how Toby Fox said fuck time signatures

[restive comet]

https://tenor.com/view/dib-membrane-anime-invader-zim-enter-the-florpus-twelve-years-old-gif-15341122

[restive comet]

I think that, The Mike Zone and Mancountry are Toby's way of saying "I do whatever the fuck I want"

Also Jackenstein's boss fight basically being a playable Youtube Poop

[merry arrow]

UT/DR has always been a multimedia experience

[strange cloud]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/J1ZTYIDQnh

[low surge]

canon

[sharp lodge]

https://archiveofourown.org/works/67411347/chapters/174181467

this is gonna be an interesting fic

[low surge]

Love when people just slap my favorite things together

[ripe harbor]

Great Video

good analysis presented directly & concisely this channel's sick

I don't think I took note how parallel Toriel and Carol are portrayed, or how their jobs played into it

[strange cloud]

Yah I didn’t think about how Toriel’s and Carol’s jobs kinda contrast with one another

[restive comet]

Twitch plays Deltarune be like-

[ripe harbor]

I also like how they mention Susie as actually gaining a sort of hope from the prophecy too

Its underdiscussed along with Gerson's main points when people talk about chapter 4, imo

its not 'row row fight the power prophecy bad'

Also I feel like I personally shifted towards considering 'the second hero' as at the very least trying to open Noelle as an option to the audience

especially with this bit

I didn't really think of it much at first but I think those might be wings

Tattered wings

it doesn't really look like hair, and Susie's hair isn't that long either way

odd

[ripe harbor]

and just the vibes of the whole "And last was the girl. The Girl. The Girl. The Girl." and just the hallway of images

and then susie going "gee I'm so glad I'm THE GIRL."

[sour mesa]

no antlers feels like a pretty serious disqualification

[ripe harbor]

the images already aren't one to one

a winged figure in a cloak could fit

its not like the White Cloak has antlers, either

and if its more of a symbolic thing

Noelle's already been associated with a cloaked figure, and with Tattered Angel Wings

Also theres the big empty space about Noelle in the prophecy in general

shes one of the main 4, and put on the same level as Kris or Susie in terms of name-importance

so where does she fit in the prophecy, if the prophecy is the story? Where is she mentioned?

[inland hare]

Deltarune implies four

The fact that despite that the prophecy specifically calls out 3 heroes existing is very odd

[sharp lodge]

when does it imply 4? /gen

[delicate cave]

Delta is the fourth letter of the Greek alphabet

[sour mesa]

it is also a triangle

[ripe harbor]

and the symbol includes the heroes as the triangles

They're the "Delta Warriors"

though I think a dual meaning could be there

the whole "The second hero, the girl" and "Last was the girl, last was the girl" is also a bit vaguer about if thats the same person than the other two

[rose swallow]

what are the odds that a future chapter will have a point where you're in the dark and the screen is pitch black when an ominous text box appears and says

Don't forget...

I ' m w i t h y o u i n t h e d a r k.

i'd say 60%

[ripe harbor]

I'll up to to 2/3rds

66.6...%

[ripe harbor]

and the repeated association susie has with monsters, destruction, kaijus, 'beasts', how to be her friend is to be 'Enemy to the world'

of all the characters in Lord of the Hammer, she reminds Gerson the most of the Dragon

could be fitting for her role to act as a destructive, dangerous, force

Shes also the most classically heroic character though so idk where the stories going with that

[ripe harbor]

big if true

[restive comet]

EIHRFJSDGKJLVEURYISFDJFI

[sharp lodge]

makes as much as kris slash theory imo

[low surge]

I don’t know if this is true, but I saw someone claim that Ralsei saying “how could you” at the end of the Knight fight in the Japanese translation was worded in a way like “how could you possibly have done that”. That’s kind of how I interpreted it, you’d think if it was directed at Kris specifically it would have ended in a question mark or exclamation point and not an ellipsis implying more was to come.

[sharp lodge]

that makes sense to me

also like
if kris did that, then that line implies ralsei knows they did it, and he just says nothing about it even when they're alone? i feel like he'd say something rather than just seemingly let it slide

[formal valley]

Tbf “alone” probably needs to include us

I don’t know if Ralsei knows that we know

Like I’m not super convinced about it myself but Ralsei not calling Kris on it while we are around is pretty reasonable

[sharp lodge]

i don't think kris would do it though
they're uncomfortable hurting a representation of their friends in the mantle game

[formal valley]

Yeah that’s my big issue

[ripe harbor]

me to Gaster after I collect all 5 Chaos Eggs and they merge into a super-egg. sorry this is nothing

[ripe harbor]

Interesting that theres a new tagged Element in the code, but with nothing attached to it for resistance

allegedly "Some rain-themed bullets" of Lanino & Elnina are tagged with it

wonder if this is going to be the pair with "Ice" in it

Elnina does have that type - maybe Ice/Wind?

[low surge]

So like how actually impactful is elemental stuff because outside of the shadow mantle I can’t think of a single instance where I’ve ever felt any sort of difference in any fight based on what gear I use (outside of stuff like TP gen)

[ripe harbor]

honestly I like it more for the Lore Implications™

I can appreciate all the little stars in the Titan's attacks more because of it

[formal valley]

The dummy in the Spamton fight is pretty good

[ripe harbor]

If theres a Cat themed boss Dealmakers are gonna be nice

same if the Sky Mantle actually gets added in the future

the resists are all 40-66%, just wild

[rose swallow]

i think it's neat that every platform deltarune is on has its own exclusive lore

PC has all the datamining stuff because it's an actual OS, PlayStation shows that Gaster sees the eggs as "an issue" because it needed to include achievements, Switch 2 has the whole postgame fight because it needed a reason to use the mouse joycon gimmick

and xbox is xbox

[ripe harbor]

even the non-egg PS stuff is interesting

all the ALLCAPS titles help establish vibes

They're just all a little offputting. Gaster and his weird phrasing.

[sour mesa]

what gets you the throne?

[amber jolt]

i THINK its the "throne of Gods" that's in the school

In toriel's classroom, I think

its the stack of chairs

[sour mesa]

excellent

[ripe harbor]

all of these have multiple things that trigger them, afaik

I think the Comically Oversized Toliet & Chariel also get you it

"Mirror" is either checking Kris' mirror in their house, or copying a save (and maybe other things?)

I think Sword checks you equpping any weapon to any character or picking up the Sword in the Mantle game

[ripe harbor]

oh funny

Mirror also checks encountering the boss at the end of the 3rd Mantle Game

it really is 'Nightmare' mirrored, huh

[rose swallow]

iirc Sword is equipping a weapon or doing the sword route

[lusty cypress]

https://www.tumblr.com/shencomix/791142874369736704?source=share

Shen Comix

-# #shen comix #comic #comics

Tumblr · Aug 6, 2025, 3:03 PM

[low surge]

Need to gaslight myself into this mindset

[formal valley]

I forgot to mention but it does work against the existing cat themed enemies and miniboss

Like Tasque’s and Tasque master do indeed deal cat damage

[ripe harbor]

ya but its not really as needed there

I suspect there will be a specific difficult Cat enemy later, as kind of a payoff for it being the first element coded into the game

and probably something encounterable through the normal route

because I think you can't get any Puppet/Cat resist items on weird

Even with the newer, 4th elemental pair Cat is still a standout

[inland hare]

Well why would you want your puppet to get something that resists puppet damage

[ripe harbor]

you got

• Light/Electric

• Dark/Star
  ^ both relevant to the main story and general plot of the game, Light and Dark

• ??? but its probably Ice
  ^ the element of one of the 4 main characters, associated with multiple main antagonists through the Holidays

• Puppet/Cat
  ^ Relevant because...... because.......

(though Seam could also be the payoff. They are both a Puppet and a Cat)

[formal valley]

Oh shit that’s true actually

And a powerful wizard too

[ripe harbor]

ya

they're underrated as a character, I love them

Just sits in their Shop and says cryptic wizard shit whenever you talk to them. Does strip poker with Addisons. Is polite but very cynical.

[lusty cypress]

Strip poker with addisons?

[ripe harbor]

Either way, Seam and are both connected to Shadow Crystals / Secret Bosses, and so is Spamton as the main guy to give you the resists.

so its probably gonna be tied to that

[ripe harbor]

Two types of Deltarune fans:

(||I'm both 😎||)

[ripe harbor]

Its rarer dialogue because I think it only pops if you gave up on getting the Shadow Crystals before Chapter 3

Missing 3 gets you "Damn if only you had the Shadow Mantle, oh well"

Getting 3's gets you "Wow I can't believe you beat the knight / Holy fuck, you beat them without the Mantle?"

you have to miss Chapter 2's and also 3's to see this, I think

[inland hare]

Yeah I think Seam is fated to be the shopkeeper

Which means

Anything that tries to cause Seam to lose their shop fails

Even if it means utterly improbable things happen

[lusty cypress]

Would cause a time/prophecy paradox

[ripe harbor]

This sort of thing is also why I suspect [Hyperlink Blocked], if its a consistent word, has gotta be something tied to 'fate'

A shopkeeper gives you themselves to not be a shopkeeper anymore - they transfer their 'fate'

Also theres the really interesting thing in Asriel's room people don't talk about

which is that he's got art of Seam on his computer

👀

A closer relationship to Asriel (or Dess?) could definitely explain how Seam is so knowledgeable about fate

[inland hare]

Asrieel’s role in the plot is still mystery to me

[ripe harbor]

same

I see a lot of people expect him to be giga-strong Hyperdeath guy

but I think him overshadowing the main trio in strength wouldn't fit the vibes of this point in the story, tbh

[inland hare]

I expect him to be somehow important to the plot

[ripe harbor]

If he does, it'd be something challenged

[inland hare]

But not sure about on the how

[ripe harbor]

ya he was close to Dess

maybe he's gonna have 'moved on'?

more than Kris or Asgore?

[inland hare]

You feel his presence everywhere

But never actually see him

[dense cargo]

Wait he does?

[ripe harbor]

He's in college building his own life, he still cares but he's not obsessed over Dess

it happened and its over, to him

[inland hare]

He’s got his own version of freedom

By losing connections to his old life

https://limbuscompany.wiki.gg/images/thumb/0/0c/Effloresced_E.G.O_Farmwatch_Idle_Sprite.png/327px-Effloresced_E.G.O_Farmwatch_Idle_Sprite.png?6a6f35 not you go away

[ripe harbor]

inspect the computer in 4 with susie, you get:

[inland hare]

Wait a minute

[ripe harbor]

I found this one myself in game and went "👀"

👁️ 👁️

[inland hare]

That means Asriel also drew cyber world

[dense cargo]

Never saw this second line. Very mysterious.

[inland hare]

Yeah I feel like Asriel’s art must be somehow important

[ripe harbor]

heres how Azzyknight TRUTHERS can still win ||/s||

Kris also did it seems

and chapter 3 reveals that Kris and 'that girl' played quite a bit with the cards and computer laptops

[inland hare]

Who are the people who would know about asriel’s drawings

Dess, himself, and Kris?

[ripe harbor]

sounds about right

[ripe harbor]

Alvin, after he confesses to feeling things about the art he traced from the How To Draw Dragons book

[inland hare]

Alvin: “haha we don’t even have confessions doctrine what is this kid doing”

[ripe harbor]

After playing Undertale the jokes about Asriel having that moral OCD guilt are so much funnier

when you know he's also Flowey

[inland hare]

I mean it kinda makes sense

At least to me

[ripe harbor]

well its also a good way to kinda

[inland hare]

People who feel a lot of random unreasonable guilt

[ripe harbor]

have him mirror his parents

[inland hare]

Might fantasize about not feeling it anymore

[ripe harbor]

Having Toriel as a mom could lead to that

[inland hare]

I have ocs like that haha

I think there is really something to the idea btw

About freedom being loss of connections

[ripe harbor]

Ya

or the limits of that idea, too

It plays a lot into Spamton's quest, with the conclusion that having no connections to the world is about the same as being dead

and Jevil's, whos so isolated as to be entirely irrelevant

'free' but only because he's not interacting with anybody anymore

[inland hare]

Yeah

[timber widget]

https://www.tumblr.com/sanogoceu/790902275592912896

sanogo

It Is TV Time News

-# #UPD IM SO SORRY I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THE AUDIO BEING BAD #deltarune #tenna #tenna deltarune #spamton #spamton g spamton #elnina #lanino #ramb deltarune #pippins #shuttah #deltarune spoilers #my first animatic this shit is really bad but my friend thought its funny so im gonna leave it like that

▶ Play video

Tumblr · Aug 3, 2025, 11:19 PM

[ripe harbor]

wait a second...

Mysterious jerk-ish cat antag
Sans is from Deltarune

It was a prophecy and a warning

Chapter 6 bunker spoilers when Sans decides to help the fun gang by holding off Friend for a few moments so they can escape

[low surge]

Toby I’m BEGGING YOU

PLEASE DO IT

[analog burrow]

Hey so uh Toby what the hell does this mean

Why is this considered “OBSERVE[ing] THE DUPLICATE” 👁️

[sharp lodge]

i've seen people suggest eram is an evil mirror of kris
maybe that's why

[ripe harbor]

The Mantle game is a 'duplicate' of things that exist outside it

the Shadow Mantle Boss itself could totally be a mirror to Kris / Hero_Sword, yeah

[analog burrow]

wait wait hold up

[ripe harbor]

Its song is 'Nightmare_boss_heavy' or whatever

[ripe harbor]

and its got a track thats the last part of the word Nightmare reflected

'Eram'

[ripe harbor]

The Roaring Knight and Kris also share a lot of animations

and the Black Monster in the Mantle game mirrors Kris' movement

[ripe harbor]

lots of mirrors going around

Truth written in glass, 'repeating all it knew'

also they are both Knights

Interesting if the knight is Dess, because to be a knight is to be in service to something

[delicate cave]

But is the knight a moss eater

[ripe harbor]

no shot or we wouldn't find any

have you seen how quick they can move

I'm ready to accept Rudy Knight too, if it goes that direction

'Dess' seems like the most likely pick though

[analog burrow]

I’m wondering now if the mirror references (among other things) are pointing towards Kris heading down the same path as whoever became the Roaring Knight

[ripe harbor]

getting Used Up

I do like the theory that the Knight is something like a Darkner + A Soul

[sour mesa]

https://bsky.app/profile/lefeyart.bsky.social/post/3lvlo5es6y22z

Lefey (@lefeyart.bsky.social)

ACT!

#Deltarune

Bluesky · Aug 4, 2025, 4:59 PM

[sharp lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EajlMP5xI4

[rose swallow]

this is the biggest reason i like the idea that Dess is a human

the potential parallels with them both being a human raised with three monsters in a family are so good

[low surge]

Consulting the brain trust, I recall Spamton mentioning that Tennas nose is fake somewhere in the sweepstakes. I know there’s the “had my nose (metaphorically) ripped off” but swear there’s another instance.

[ripe harbor]

dont think so

its def fake though

one of the mikes 'organizes his nose drawer'

[low surge]

Yeah, I just couldn’t remember if Spamton specifically made more remarks about the fake nose

[ripe harbor]

Its why the older art of Tenna didn't have a big nose

It wasn't a known thing for him

[ripe harbor]

I did find a thing where Spamton is speaking directly to... Jockington? in the Sweepstakes

https://tenor.com/view/watching-you-observe-seeing-i-saw-you-gif-5740825

its so funny that Jockington feels like one of Toby's Favorites

[low surge]

Crazy how all of a sudden we gotta scrutinize every little thing that fucking snake said or did because it’s just too weird to be nothing

[ripe harbor]

I'm not taking him seriously and falling for The Fox's Wily Tricks

Catti for sure though trust 🙏

Theres been 2-3 jokes about her summoning demons and a few others about her being obsessed with magic, and she (intentionally or not) matches the game / Gaster in the way she describes characters

and shes a CAT ❗

[analog burrow]

Adding them to the small list of background characters lined up enter the scene, say “Hey guys what’s up” and immediately slip and fall into the deep end of narrative consequence

[ripe harbor]

Shes gonna have the papyrus "Lets just say a little Gold Flower told me" moment, but for Friend

or Jockington does and she hits him with the

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

(Realistically there will just be a smattering of quick DW designs when the Roaring starts and all the Lightners fall into the Dark)

and then Catti x Ralsei OTP will launch a thousand fanarts #believeit

[analog burrow]

Sans enters stage left to ask if anyone wants takeout before being struck by The Contraption™

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-wing-laser-gaster-kris-gif-17260136149389337735

[rose swallow]

this is 100% just "spamton using a bizarre weird choice", not saying the listener is literally a snake

[clear frost]

Maybe

But also, baseball is a sport, and the only snake we know of is obsessed with sports

[ripe harbor]

its not just that part

"Some of you kids out there like sports"

and then the snake joke

I mean he's not talking to jockington at all this whole thing is half-canon, but the joke for the audience is that he's calling "Sports obsessed kids" "snakes"

regardless of if its addressed to a literal snake or not

either way I saw some of those UT/DR morality tier lists going around heres my 100% Objective Morality Ranking of EVERY UTDR character except the ones I Didn't want to Add:

this is my Truth Magnum Opus

[sour mesa]

why are ralsei and ice-e on the same tier

What is happening

[ripe harbor]

thats hat-ralsei specifically

reason: I dont want him to put the hat back on

[sour mesa]

oh okay

[ripe harbor]

alternatively if it makes you feel better read that one as Pilesofdustsei, his younger brother

[sour mesa]

well we all have some incorrect opinions,

[ripe harbor]

(||This list is also mostly shitpost I don't think you can scrunch the morality down to a single 'moral points' axis.||)

[sour mesa]

but you ranked the pipis so accurately

[ripe harbor]

I liked Flowey / Asriel getting 3 spots

I'm playing all sides to come out on top

my list is biased towards goodness on account of my worldly and forgiving nature btw

[low surge]

Send ICE E to the boiler room of hell

Send that fucker into the stratosphere!!!!!

[analog burrow]

He’s coming out of the pipes! He’s crawling out of the pipes!

[low surge]

I shouldn’t have done that

I’m sorry

I shouldn’t have done that

[timber widget]

What the hell do you mean you get the mirror achievement from fighting John Mantle

[ripe harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/eram-deltarune-shadow-mantle-deltarune-secret-boss-lol-gif-11075350009172146036

in the S-rank room straight up 'observing' it,

and by 'it', haha, well, lets just say, The Duplicate

[timber widget]

Wiki says it has to do with hero_sword instead

[ripe harbor]

I was actually thinking about that

was gonna ask if its for winning or encountering

[low surge]

Potentially lukewarm take but what if John Mantle, if they’re not FRIEND, is actually the plastic horns? I know that’s a popular theory for Ralsei but they kinda got a horned look and it could tie into Kris’ violent outbursts as a child maybe

[ripe harbor]

could be hero_sword leaving the screen and meeting Kris is them observing a duplicate

[low surge]

Perchance

[analog burrow]

What if John Mantle is the other Seam though

[low surge]

Buenos Aires has been consumed by the Roaring

[amber jolt]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/reel/DM0Pzxry1gM/

jollibeeuk (@jollibeeuk)

There's a Jollibee in the bunker yknow

▶ Play video

InstaFix

JESUS?

CHRIST?

[ripe harbor]

uh oh

I was

talking to my friend unrelatedly about Muffet, pulled up her battle to watch with them-

https://tenor.com/view/arnold-schwarzenegger-shocked-bed-gif-9891334929065093748

(Its still... maybe... Mettaton)

[low surge]

JOLLIBEES MENTIONED 🇵🇭 🇵🇭 🇵🇭

[ripe harbor]

but you could make a funny crack theory for sure

[sour mesa]

in too deep

[ripe harbor]

So Sorry is already in the eggroom. We can have a 'Friend Hired Muffet to Ice you' as a treat

It was still probably Mettaton. Probably. I can't let myself believe it was the cat.

[low surge]

Where the FUCK is Glyde

Free my man

[lethal ferry]

i want to know where my guy mad dummy is

[rose swallow]

why is tenna, who does a bunch of kidnapping and mistreats his workers, higher than seam, milk kid, dogs, and sans

[low surge]

Milk kid knows what he’s done

[rose swallow]

also Alphys being higher than Toriel is kinda insane

[lethal ferry]

truly a tier list of all time

[low surge]

So Alphys did a little unethical experimentation

God forbid women have hobbies

[timber widget]

The hell did the cactus do

So it has issues with being emotionally vulnerable, is that such a crime

[low surge]

Used the T word

Unforgivable crime

[dense cargo]

Unfortunately, ICE-E cannot be executed because he is beyond the reach of all earthly laws.

[low surge]

ICE-E is said to have been gifted 30 iron feathers from an angel, which he forged into nails and drove into his own flesh so as to become invincible

[strange cloud]

It’s fucked how Ralsei’s self deprecation was so effective it tricked like half the fanbase that it’d be ok if he dies for Kris and Susie’s sake

[low surge]

I will personally stand outside Mr Focks house in the pouring rain and scream and cry and tear my clothes if so much as a single hair on the poor boy is ruffed

[strange cloud]

And you’d be right to do so

[lusty cypress]

Wait waht?

[timber widget]

Berdly has

[strange cloud]

I’m talking about the common theory now that Ralsei, via the prophecy or otherwise, will sacrifice himself for Kris and Susie in a classic “you can’t rely on escapism forever” theme

[lusty cypress]

God I hate that perspective tgat darkners are lesser

Back before chapters 3 and 4, there were people actually saying titans were adults putting toys away

[dense cargo]

It is baffling that people are seriously buying into it, considering how clear the game makes it that Ralsei's ideas are completely wrong and borne out of his catastrophic lack of self-esteem.

Like, did they all just miss the end of Chapter 3?

[lusty cypress]

People really latched onto that escapism interpretation

[strange cloud]

Yah I think that’s the reason to

Escapism was a big part of chapters 1/2, and still a big part of 3/4

But it’s not the only theme now

But people are still applying the theme to every aspect of it, even where it doesn’t fit

[lusty cypress]

When we have seen the dark worlds aren't meaningless nor baseless
They reflect the world, they have people with feelings, they change people

[strange cloud]

The two worlds are also bleeding together more and more

[timber widget]

The escapism thing is also just a metaphor; in the literal meaning of the text, darkners are people

[analog burrow]

And even on a meta level, the impact fiction can have on people is very much real

it can bring people together, help them grow and discover themselves

[clear frost]

Undertale and Deltarune have proven that themselves

[analog burrow]

Susie wouldn’t be the friend we know if not for their time in the dark world

[timber widget]

But also if I had a penny for every time I wrote something from the depths of my feelings, really put a piece of myself into it, only to hear that oh yeah everyone's done this before, I'd have a small handful

Nothing to do with you, and I should probably be less attached to feeling unique, it's just a bummer to accidentally do tropes every time

[analog burrow]

One proposal for the prophesied tragedy that kinda stuck with me for this very reason is the heroes forgetting the dark world

[lusty cypress]

"Ah yes the time knife. Everyone has seen it before"

[ripe harbor]

real answer: This list combines "how nice are they" and "how bad the things they do are" and "How sympathetic are the motives" and all that into one + is a joke.

but also sans not doing things is a bit of a mark against him lmao

He only ever gets directly involved in the very worst circumstances, as late as possible, when he can convince himself he can't afford not to care

thats a personal flaw

[ripe harbor]

He didn't have to call Toriel and Asgore freaks to Kris' face right after church lmao. What a hater!

Its inherently absurd to try and 'rank' morality like this between in those games. Asgore murdered 6 kids because he was bored even though it was completely in his power to not do that, but is a generally emotionally open and supportive guy. Carol seems abusive to Noelle and is manipulative towards Kris, but her motives are likely incredibly sympathetic + she hasn't actually ever killed anyone. Who is 'worse'?

Toriel's nice but has dealt with the deaths of her children + the subsequent fallen humans in an incredibly flawed (and kind of cowardly way - she shares that with Asgore).
Berdly is just an annoying teen, who does have his rare actual heroic moments.

Snowy's a dick for the human racism though no question. Go below the kidnapper guy straight to hell.

[ripe harbor]

It wasn't even unethical when she did it 😭 who could've known they would melt

the part where she lied to their families and kept them in the spooky basement was Not Good though. That was the bigger mistake of the two.

I can't believe nobody mentioned the obvious Spamton + Chara 'Besties' tier bait. Is it just so self evidently ....?

(a final more serious take, I give Tenna quite a bit of leeway for the same reason I wouldn't actually judge Kris as harshly as Carol - his worst actions are in a circumstance where he didn't have much personal agency. He kidnaps the heroes and [kind of] Toriel, but he does so under duress. He's scared of Kris, and is trying to follow their instructions to avoid the threat of getting unplugged again. Sure, his attachment issues caused him to go a bit overboard anyway, but he really didn't have any good options in chapter 3 itself.

still kind of a dick for the contract stuff. But he's nice to Susie so he squeezes up a tier.)

[strange cloud]

Also importantly, those contracts are also like never actually enforced lol

[ripe harbor]

yeah hes kind of a softy

[strange cloud]

He’s really bad at actually being a bad boss because he folds under even the slightest pressure

[ripe harbor]

well there is some implication he has Moods or Rages

the mikes saying if he gets a temper from Mike not being around he'd 'take it out on them', the broken mirror in the Z-rank room, etc

but also just look at him

[strange cloud]

Yah true

[ripe harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/tenna-mr-tenna-deltarune-oh-ok-tenna-shocked-gif-6395795751950453175

[strange cloud]

“Sell my kids!”

[ripe harbor]

He's more well meaning than any other main chapter antag

I do wonder how Kris would've reacted if Tenna did stop the show earlier

before the Knight could show

CONCLUSION: He's an Alright Bloke

[strange cloud]

Kris would unleash their Goner Mode ™ and they slash them them

[ripe harbor]

Kris activate Dragon Blazers Install it makes your 6p have better frames

I'm pretty sympathetic to the Knight, too, depending on how the story plays out

I don't think its a coincidence Susie hits Tenna with the "You don't have to take being thrown away" right before they show up

its like irony

If the Knight is Dess, could I really look at them and go "Make peace with the world moving on, stay lost."?

[strange cloud]

Like, assuming Dess is the voice in the code (which seems likely, she’s the only real candidate) then she at minimum spent several years alone in the dark with no hope of escape

[sour mesa]

well maybe it's flowey

[strange cloud]

Oh shit I didn’t think about that

[sour mesa]

flowey knight stonks

[ripe harbor]

ya

Her actions are at the least 'selfish'

but I don't think thats a particularly strong indictment. Look at how Susie and Ralsei's character arcs are playing out - you gotta be a little selfish, its good for you

If the Knight is looking for escape, they are at least willing to really screw over / outright kill other people for even the chance of getting out

And willing to pressure Kris and manipulate Susie down a tragic path

and then Kris turns out and browbeats Tenna into helping do a little kidnapping, under threat of harm, before their manipulation leads to him getting CLEAVED in half. Its great.

[restive comet]

Pyramid manipulation

[ripe harbor]

Just chains of hurting people because they 'have' to

[ripe harbor]

and ofc that plays into Weird Route

You 'have to' adopt and do the things in it, because you're putting a goal of breaking away from some tragic fate over the wellbeing of the people you'll use up

Its seemingly the way the main antags are operating, too

or its deciding that the only way to fight manipulative conspiracies are to shape other people into your own tools, that strength and utility are all that matters

Very bleak sort of worldview

[strange cloud]

https://www.vxtiktok.com/t/ZP8kschJg/

[clear frost]

No

Cursed Technique: Instant Ager

[low surge]

Moral Orel jumpscare

[low surge]

The good ending (@aaronculous)

[foggy python]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWx_ebJKr9o

[ruby garnet]

By 🇵🇸Mmmtttbbb (@Mmmtttbbb2) on Twitter.com.

[ripe harbor]

yuuuuuup thats Burning Eyes

yup thats

thats flashing red eyes awoken by violence

[low surge]

Absolutely insane seeing the map being covered in deltarune art on wplace

[white basalt]

i saw a drawing of green pippins getting crucified

[ripe harbor]

Why would Chara do that....

[white basalt]

had a crown of thorns. feet weren't nailed on so it was technically heretical (church doctrine states there were four nails, one for each hand and foot)

[ripe harbor]

you just know the fistfights about that last bit were wild when they were hashing it out

(I actually didn't know that, neat)

[white basalt]

triclavianism (the analogous heresy that three nails were used) came up elsewhere the other day, hence such numerical heresies being on the mind

[low surge]

I need Battat and gang to get into scooby doo esque conspiracy shenanigans

[scarlet wadi]

https://bskyx.app/profile/iluvrabbitz.bsky.social/post/3lvwbkacv3k2n

[ripe harbor]

I'm wondering if that suspiciously poetic 'cracked conch surrounded by glass, repeating the sound of the ocean' thing is eventually going to parallel Gaster, of all characters

Feels like it could tie into the metatextual elements of his 'Deltarune' being written and rewritten again and again, theres no original prophecy author - just interpretations

He spoke the legend, but it's 'a pity' that he did so, he's getting it from somewhere else

and he is cracked

[sage needle]

It could also have something to do with the music coming from underwater

[ripe harbor]

I personally suspect the song from the sea and the legend might be the same thing

[sage needle]

That detail is such a 😵

[ripe harbor]

given how often the deeper dark stuff is connected to the ocean

like I'm wondering if the song of the sea is literally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PibYmujLubI

The Legend

esp because some people a while back found unused prophecy text that can be sung to it pretty easily

[ripe harbor]

like, is the legend itself just coming from the 'sea', and Gaster is just recording it and passing it along?

he wants to make a 'new future' because this is the only one he's seen, its 'all he knows'?

the most interesting part if you take this as an intended read is that its 'a pity'. It'd be describing Gaster in sympathetic light.

and the ominous "Don't Listen -> 'But you could still hear the sound of the ocean'", maybe something about how fate is approaching regardless of it you want it to or not.

which

definitely fits the sort of apocalyptic danger approaching

Lightner's be like "I got my whole Festival ahead of me!" no you don't 😆 😂 😆 the DEPTHS are coming

[amber jolt]

Makes me wonder what the real use of the Shelter is

like

its there for disaster

so

[ripe harbor]

true

[amber jolt]

it HAS to have something regarding water

[ripe harbor]

the thing that gets me is that, if the Knight really was Dess who went missing near there (in a Dark World)

it means Dark Worlds definitely predate the Knight - why was there one in the Shelter?

It could always be the kids found out a way to make them, but the fact its a spooky code-locked shelter of unknown use means I want to assume theres some Nonsense in there lmao

[sour mesa]

https://vidkun.tumblr.com/post/791372503898619904

the stars don't twinkle, the moon doesn't shine

-# #deltarune #berdly #kris dreemurr #theyre meant to be a little younger here LOL. people have done this joke 1000 times but this is the 1001st time

Tumblr · Aug 9, 2025, 3:53 AM

[ripe harbor]

hmmm.....

"A trace - repeated, repeated"