Undertale and Deltarune

[ripe harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfGXVxXALa0

this

probably means its also the 'unintelligible laughter' that spamton had a 'communion' with to turn him this way

[sharp lodge]

what the fuuuck

[ripe harbor]

and its a toby fox game, and its kind of a funny rpg so its like
Its not like the UT characters werent smiling pretty often.

but it seems to be a thing in DR associated with the Dark

[analog burrow]

Gosh, is telling Ralsei “It’s ok not to smile” going have a double meaning by the end of the game

[ripe harbor]

its made a note of in Queen and King's flavor texts...

Queen's intro song is "Ohohohohoho!", King and Lancer both have unique laugh sounds,

Tenna does-

https://tenor.com/view/tenna-deltarune-deltarune-chapter-3-ant-tenna-deltarune-ant-tenna-gif-12919586042381884330

this

theres a lot of laughter and smiling, and more importantly, its associated with the important Darkner npcs

that last part is the . Swatch doesn't really smile, the plugboys don't really smile, who cares.

The main bosses get specific attention drawn to their big creepy grins

[analog burrow]

And Tenna, seemingly the closest to the darker side of the narrative out of the bosses, has the most pronounced smiling motif

Oh, and on a side note: I only recently learned the Jockington prophecy appears in the Third Sanctuary

https://youtu.be/3HLj2L9Ibw0?si=f71z5ByB2990RoFg

Between “They’ll hear the ring of heaven’s call” and “They’ll see the tail of hell take crawl”

Before the clock strikes midnight, the shadow will grow!
O, the shadow will grow, serpentine!

[ripe harbor]

I was talking about the old UT 'please don't share secrets' text to dataminers to my friends, and how it didn't work, and how I unironically think the adaptation Toby did to keep the mysteries alive is putting intentional bait around.

or mixing up the jokes and the foreshadowing to the point where just datamining or secret finding isn't enough

is Jockington's beard important? Who knows!

its probably a joke, but adding that "but...." does more to keep the ambiguity alive than trying to keep secrets more overtly hidden. Multiply that over the whole game.

Turns out Triple Trucies was plot critical foreshadowing.

[analog burrow]

Mike is a soda commercial reference and a setup to a dad joke (“Real Mic”) but also connected to the biggest mystery anyway by proxy

Jockington just says how the Titan is defeated in chapter 2

[ripe harbor]

• hide things
• when in doubt, hide more in jokes
• when in doubt, hide jokes in them
• if all else fails, write them extremely vague and cryptic

yeah its almost like a smokescreen

have very obvious and attention grabbing strange things, let the subtler weirdness just fly right by

[analog burrow]

My current interpretation is that it’s impossible to know how relevant Jockington actually is, but “before midnight the shadow will grow” does hint at a potential timeline of events

Heaven calls => The shadow grows => The tail of hell takes crawl 🤔

[low surge]

Oh fuck me I never considered that

[sour mesa]

I do read Flowey as talking to Chara (within Frisk) at the end of true Pacifist and Chara as just talking to Frisk

[analog burrow]

God, chapter 5

is gonna be a ride

smiles and hands all around

stars and glass, puppets and cats

[low surge]

Toby cooking up some emotionally devastating shit no doubt

[analog burrow]

I swear to god if something happens with Kris and I hear sevenfour

[low surge]

Prepare yourself

The ride only stops for emergencies

And crying is not an emergency

[low surge]

I’m still not certain 100% on Kris getting the ol Skywalker Special, but when I first heard that theory and thought back to the “only if you play too” bit from the choir room I immediately thought of a scene where Susie helps Kris play sevenfour after losing their hand and immediately internally I was soaking wet kitten face down in a puddle in the pouring rain screaming crying throwing up demanding god have the decency to take me now

[ripe harbor]

Interestingly,

https://tcrf.net/Deltarune/Chapter_1

this stuff has been in there since at least Chapter 1

and now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBEZs0iYGdo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfC98GBdBME

idk if it counts as 'unused' anymore lmao

added both face.ogg and whatever this one's titled because they do seem a little different, probably some extra touchups between the sweepstakes and chapter 3's release

[ripe harbor]

he can't keep getting away with it

[analog burrow]

Bro is not beating the nonexistence allegations

[rose swallow]

i really don't think "toby pressed ctrl+a, ctrl+c, ctrl+v on the undertale dialogue sounds" is very indicative of anything

[ripe harbor]

its where the creepylaugh sounds get used, which is mostly in cutscenes related to how dark worlds work

its also transitively what plays near the Shelter, when you use a phone in a dark world, and in Entry 17- thats a lot of pretty plot heavy places for the same sound file (if edited) to crop up

I didn't even notice this at the time

https://youtu.be/7nOqqgiHKsw?si=3gMrM2fPqiRxBIYE&t=64

but Friend's version of the laugh file - literally exactly what plays when you kill the little friend goons in Mantle (cut off) plays when the room just gets normal darker

and then plays again when it jumpscares you

Laughter, and the spooky edited laughter that makes up mus_smile, is connected to the Dark here. I think its a stronger motif than most in DR so far tbh.

If it existed since even the first versions unused, it could imply this was part of the creative vision even before chapter 1 was made. What gets me is the read that, maybe, all the friend stuff might be why the Undertale file was called mus_smile...

[rose swallow]

it's really a big mystery who papyrus is in deltarune.
It's probably someone who's always been in the town, but whose face we've never seen. Someone who's quirky and comedic. Someone who really wants to come across as a powerful warrior. Someone who has long limbs.

Sadly, there just isn't anyone in deltarune who perfectly matches all of those criteria...

ice-e mascot taking off his mask in chapter 7 for a second, revealing papyrus, then putting it back on and going on as normal would be the most toby fox thing possible

[low surge]

I’ll fall for that shit

Mostly because it’s funny

[white basalt]

i'm all in on warrior papyrus because it seems like something toby would pull in terms of being both ridiculous and thematically coherent

[sour mesa]

he moves in un-papyrus ways but that's not a dealbreaker

[ripe harbor]

I wouldn't mind beta papyrus but I understand this is a controversial take

well maybe not entirely beta papyrus. Beta-Pap flavored normal Papyrus

a little bit more of a shut-in, not a full creepy dude

theres a fun fact too, Bonetrousle was a prototype main battle theme for DR.

(Confirmed to have been DR specifically because it was from the same project Heartache - originally 'jokerbattle' - was made for)

||Rude Buster absolutely clears. Sorry Papyrus.||

[low surge]

God imagine if beta Papyrus was how he appeared in Undertale

[low surge]

Real though

I wonder if From Now On is going to be the battle theme going forward

I really dig it so I wouldn’t be upset

Wish Ruder Buster got used more than once though

[clear frost]

i mean. on one hand, the title is self explanatory.

on the other, it has a lot of Sanctuary motifs.

[clear frost]

was listening to kris play the piano and the moment i heard acid tunnel of love i realized that the music is canon and people can hear it

[dreamy gorge]

hmmm

saw a theory that seems very interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAEhsjRf91g

obviously, lots of spoilers

[clear frost]

in some timelines they made the worst choice they could.

[sinful crag]

romantic remix of Smart Race would be baller

[sharp lodge]

speaking of that theory i had a neat idea that kris loses their hand for different reasons depending on the route
like in the normal route maybe they lose it protecting one of their friends from the knight

and in the weird route the knight goes for the hand that kris acts with when they see what we've done to noelle

[analog burrow]

21. Dating Smart (DELTARUNE Chapter 5 Soundtrack) - Toby Fox

[ripe harbor]

weird way to spell 'canon route'

Kris why you thinking about Berdly during the Jackenstein fight 🤨

||its kinda fucked up that this line is, allegedly, WR exclusive lmao||

[dense cargo]

||If it is, that's depressing||

[ripe harbor]

right?!?

[foggy python]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRfmUwS6NDg

[strange cloud]

Chatroom, who are we thinking is the second voice in the gonermaker?

“Will now be discarded” person

[inland hare]

It was me

[ripe harbor]

assuming its an in-universe character,

Kris, Shadow-Mantle Holder, maaaaybe Dess all seem like solid picks

its really a
"Conspiracy did it (Light World)" or "Shadow demon did it" or "Knight did it" choice

idk if theres an angle I'm overlooking but those are the guesses I'd throw out rn

[dense cargo]

It being Kris would be funny

Your name (actually my name)

[ripe harbor]

it would go a little thematically hard

the most important thing the second voice does narratively, imo, is profess the opinion

"Nobody can choose who they are in this world."

If thats supposed to be a deepcut on how Kris feels about themselves, thats got some spice to it

[strange cloud]

It just feels weird to me because Kris is normally the one to make it clear we’re not them

Ripping us out and looking directly at the screen and all

[ripe harbor]

and it would lead into most of the mirror dialogues and Shadow Mantle Holder words

[strange cloud]

So the “your name is…” part feels weird for them to be saying

[ripe harbor]

at the same time, it'd be expressing their own name over your opinions on how your vessel should be

Your name is Kris because they won't let their name be anything but Kris

but I'm not diehard on any of these interpretations. I'm just glad we've moved on from "It's Chara."

[ripe harbor]

If its Dess it implies things about how she felt before she went lost, so that'd also be pretty good

[strange cloud]

“That wasn’t (insert whoever) that was Chara”

[ripe harbor]

its hard to have a solid theory when the soul, how long its been here, if it's krises, etc are all up in the air 💀

[strange cloud]

Yah lol

[ripe harbor]

I think the comments on Kris' behavior strongly implies its a recent thing,

and its also interesting that all this knight + dark world stuff has only really started happening around the same time

[strange cloud]

It’s so weird that “Gaster did it” is genuinely the only thing we can be confident in about the Gonermaker

[ripe harbor]

like Dess has been missing for years

[strange cloud]

Like, out of everything he’s the solid foundation

[ripe harbor]

but all the stuff is happening this week, as soon as we gain control

so unless its arbitrary, something we got no info about might've happened

[strange cloud]

Yah, for whatever reason Kris ripped out their soul in the past, it didn’t seem to be because someone else was possessing them

Because of Noelle’s comments about their voice and behavior being recent

[ripe harbor]

I like the idea its Dess, or Carol, or Kris

I think it fits the tone of the situation the best

Kris willingly submitting to something they don't like because they think they have to

[strange cloud]

Carol would be weird imo

Idk why

I just don’t think she can do stuff at that layer of the game

[ripe harbor]

the speaker feels just chuuni enough I believe its one of the teens / YAs lmao

[ripe harbor]

this is also where the sort of stopgap for theories happen

without any idea of what or where or how things were going on its complete guesswork

[strange cloud]

Yah

[ripe harbor]

I'm sure once we walk into the Bunker and see "Wingle Dingle's Soulmaker Machine 9000" it'll all make sense

sorry walk into the Shelter

[strange cloud]

I still prefer bunker tbh

Just sounds better

Spookier

[ripe harbor]

Shelter sounds a little friendlier, yeah

and thats almost interesting

like a bunker could be made to defend itself, or wage war, or make spooky experiments

but a shelter is made to ride out emergencies

which might tie into why the knight + co are using it, or what they're finding in there

[sour mesa]

This is a very funny thing for Gaster to be

[ripe harbor]

I think I just lean that the second voice being one the angsty teens is more meaningful

at least for now

[sour mesa]

i don't disagree i think he makes the most sense

[ripe harbor]

it'd matter more for them to have that sort of worldview

[sour mesa]

but
it is funny

[strange cloud]

The Gonermaker is still the most gastery Gaster thing to ever gaster

[strange cloud]

That’s fair, though, what if instead of that it’s just Chara undertale again?

[strange cloud]

Confused old man Gaster

[ripe harbor]

Everything that happens in UTDR was Chara, except for Chara in the Genocide route. That was Friend.

[strange cloud]

TRUUUUUUUE

[crimson badger]

my crack theory with no evidence and basis in reality with the whole soul hijack thing is that the second voice is not talking to us, but we're rather entering Kris' perspective as they wake up, and we're getting the tail end of a disjointed conversation aimed at them, it doesn't feel like it has anything to lodge itself with so its a shot in the dark but it feels right to me at the moment (the only thing I got going for me is ch4's intro dream sequence)

[sharp lodge]

https://old.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1meusur/kerdly_art_link_in_the_description_made_by_the/

i guess i like kredly now?

[ripe harbor]

listen- its strangely textually supported.

[sharp lodge]

true

i do still ship krusielle too for different reasons
not like it's illegal to ship the same character in different ways

[ripe harbor]

ya

I like Kris and Susie's dynamic, ship or not

https://tenor.com/view/susie-kris-drink-punch-susie-deltarune-gif-11594568216757015062

and Susie and Noelle are straight up in a relationship in the game lmao

[zenith iron]

@junior creek krispy chicken ping

[junior creek]

krispy chicken ping?

whats up?

[zenith iron]

this'un

[junior creek]

YEAHHHHHH

[analog burrow]

An interesting thought is that Castle Town could be considered a shelter for all the darkners who would otherwise be lost. I honestly prefer it over bunker for that reason.

That and the whole vibe of everyone being so deeply afraid of this place normally meant to provide safety during a crisis.

[sharp lodge]

https://youtu.be/6hI9TcThjw8?si=L1BIReu6wwe_GSqE

[ripe harbor]

Darkness and the Roaring linked explicitly to water.
Pluey minigame involves taking 'chosen ones' to the shelter as the rain gets more intense, possibly paralleling the Knights actions or Castle Town.
Pluey the only minigame shared between PC and Switch versions.
First Titan summoning coincides with rainy weather.
spr_mike_shelter.

pluery about

this is kind of why I'm expecting to enter the Shelter after the Roaring starts

"A shelter is a place for people to survive an emergency", huh

[restive comet]

Now I'm just imagining all of hometown staying in Castle Town and many shenanigans ensuing

You know, part of me wonders if Undertale's underground is one massive Dark World, but all the monsters are Lightners which have been sealed away by humanity

And Deltarune could be a subversion of that where they voluntarily move into The Dark World to take refuge

And in Undertale, they can't use magic anymore on the surface possibly since they're out of the dark

[timber widget]

https://bsky.app/profile/skelegem.bsky.social/post/3ltiepj2le22x

SkeleGem (@skelegem.bsky.social)

Deltarune AU idea: It’s exactly the same, but the entire class went to get chalk instead of just Kris and Susie, and now there’s too many Heroes.

Reposts

129

Likes

352

Bluesky · Jul 8, 2025, 10:41 PM

[lusty cypress]

You know how people theorize ralsei is kris ideal body
And neo was met's ideal body, driven by spamton
What if Ralsei is borrowing the body, which deflates when he's downed?
Then you may wonder what ralsei is
He bakes, he weaves, he lives in an old closet
That's right, he's a spider!

[golden haven]

Ralsei is that spider species from Wildsea

[restive comet]

Ngl, I thought he was supposed to be a jumping spider for a tiny bit when he took off the cloak at the beginning of Ch1

[strange cloud]

This isn’t right because we’ve already seen Jockington in the dark world

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-deltarune-chapter-3-friend-gif-3264300287661350839

[dense cargo]

So that's why he's friends with Catti

[low surge]

Monster Teen and Sonwy never beating the allegations

[strange cloud]

It’s especially funny because MK really doesn’t like Snowy much lol

Their first line is wishing they could have partnered with Kris instead

And every scene of them together is Snowy being an asshole and MK just standing there uncomfortably

Imagine being eternally paired with that guy in class you don’t really like but needed to do a group project with together

[low surge]

Me and my chud boyfriend I hate

[strange cloud]

LOL

[sour mesa]

https://www.tumblr.com/goomyloid/788748893861134336/damn-not-like-this

goomba

damn not like this

-# #deltarune #december holiday #dess holiday #noelle holiday #kris dreemurr #utdr #goomyart

Tumblr · Jul 11, 2025, 4:52 AM

[strange cloud]

Kris would adore shadow the hedgehog

[analog burrow]

before mid night. straight up "growing it". and by "it", haha, well. let's justr say. The shadow (serpentine)

[strange cloud]

https://youtu.be/jAJGNUPqru0?si=RCsMbbMkUTg1Kw1w

[low surge]

If the game takes place in 202X, assuming it’s 2021, what games would the FUN gang have even played as kids?

Roblox for sure

[sour mesa]

dragon blazers duh

[low surge]

True

[strange cloud]

You think Noelle likes ultrakill?

[low surge]

She P ranks everything

This is the same girl that has spent years grinding catpetterz mini games for a perfect score

[strange cloud]

That’s true

[low surge]

Okay real one here, Dess and Asriel played The Force Unleashed and thought Starkiller was the coolest character ever (this was me)

[strange cloud]

That’s true

[foggy python]

Not only that, but Noelle keeps up with all the living hell discussions and can talk at length about how creepy life would be like before mankind died and discovering the energy source you were using was alive

I don't go there, but I'm sure she'd get a kick out of FAITH, too

[ripe harbor]

idk I feel like she'd be the really min-maxy crpg type gamer over the twitch shooter type gamer

Kris would absolutely though

[vocal elbow]

Her Pathfinder characters would be an ugly mess of cross-classing but man can they sweep through everything at the highest difficulty.

[ripe harbor]

Shes like "Its not that hard to keep track fahaha each of the 40+ modded classes are actually pretty mechanically unique!"

She's done every WotR divine path, but 40% of all her playthroughs is Angel

[foggy python]

instead of keeping a spreadsheet or anything, i imagine she was like "well i found a really good combo and it kind of went from there!"

[low surge]

I’m not person to have a long lasting seated fortress session, still caused it to spiral into chaos out of curiosity

[ripe harbor]

It contrasts to berdly's reddit whiteroom theoretically ideal classes that just fold in the actual game and never work out

[foggy python]

berdly has studied theorycraft after craft only to find out his first encounter isnt in a tight dungeon with halls 5-10 feet wide and riddled with traps

"yea we have sky adventures in space"

https://tenor.com/view/berdly-deltarune-chapter-2-burghley-gif-18085510037390908009

[ripe harbor]

now I do think Noelle has some crazy cool shit in some Terraria / Minecrap world

[foggy python]

i think noelle has some of the most unnerving bloodcurdling minecraft worlds hand crafted to part the ghost from the body upon playing

and shes like "yeah faha i cant play it at night"

[ripe harbor]

FRIEND joining the server to repose all her armor stands while she isn't looking to face towards the entrance and open all the doors

[foggy python]

"what a cool looking blue skull in this white room!"

[ripe harbor]

you just know she has all her chests pre-sorted and neat

[ripe harbor]

she makes a blogpost about getting lost in 0-S but how the game must've glitched or something lol because Something Wicked never spawned

and so she just wandered around for a while, probably going places the map wasn't built for, because the textures started to change into the normal level geometry again, and-

[foggy python]

i know if ultrakill dropped in deltarune kris would have a field day scaring noelle

[ripe harbor]

Kris remember when you used to log onto my server and purposefully force corrupted chunk errors that we'd have to do huge rollbacks to fix why don't you do that anymore :(

[restive comet]

Is "Kris, why don't you do that anymore?" gonna be a new meme?

[foggy python]

kris remember when you installed the broken script mod without me knowing and then drew some of the sign text around my room after my worldfile got deleted why dont you do that anymore

now i think those entity things are kind of.. cute

kris and noelle on are the same wavelengths giraffes and the trees they eat

which is to say theyre specialized in just escalating shit for specifically each other

[low surge]

Susie is trash at games and gets easily ragebaited by Kris

[ripe harbor]

I think susie is both easy to ragebait and hard to truly tilt

[foggy python]

The SOUL having kris undergo terrible backseating compulsions while they try to actually fucking play

[ripe harbor]

I think she has the Gamer's Temperment where as long as she gets to do stupid shit shes happy

actually I think this is literally canon considering the tenna boards

you swap controllers she immediately starts pretending Kris is nonstop trying to hug ralsei, its enriching for her to do stupid bits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAmk9Qq8-XQ

^ this is ideal Kris + Susie gamer dynamic to me

[low surge]

The TF2 connection is so real

Their asses would play on a 24/7 2fort server

Engineer vs Zombie Medic

The old saxton hale/freakfortress servers

It writes itself really

[gilded canopy]

Considering her canon gaming history I beg to differ

She would play primarily Lich

[low surge]

Berdly is either an edgy sniper main, an edgy spy main, or he incessantly turtles and gets really mad when his shit gets sapped

He forces Noelle to play Pybro, but she doesn’t mind because she can still pull off some bullshit puff n sting detonator combos

Ralsei is the groups forever medic naturally

[sharp lodge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1mfamem/salt_lick/

[sharp lodge]

https://youtu.be/pym3IJhE11w?si=N1JU-gu7-z1zpV5e

[ripe harbor]

she absolutely did the Locust path or whatever it was called

at least once

[strange cloud]

Honestly Noelle strikes me as the type to do everything in a game she can at least once

Real completionist energy

If she likes a game she will just explore it until there’s nothing left to offer in it

[low surge]

“Oh wow this Undertale game sure looks fun!”

“… who the fuck is chara?”

[strange cloud]

https://renrink.tumblr.com/post/726736428378341376/hello-i-dont-know-if-you-still-take-request-but

A Wild Shipper Has Appeared!

🔁 renrink

-# ↩ 👤

Hello! I don’t know if you still take request, but can I ask a krusielle art pls?

Also, your one of the first undertale/deltarune artist I starter to follow since chapter 1. Glad to see you back and keep up the good work!

-# ↪

renrink

Added comment from twitter (sic) which I agreed with lmao...

Tumblr · Aug 26, 2023, 5:11 PM

[strange cloud]

It is very funny Noelle pretty much canonically did the genocide route in her equivalent to undertale

[ripe harbor]

I think its actually as funny that Susie did by accident, too 💀

[strange cloud]

Which honestly I’m kinda surprised by

Not because she’s to good to do it or whatever

I just didn’t think she’d have the patience to grind for as long as the genocide route needs

[strange cloud]

Chatroom what if the last chapter came out on Christmas Day?

[sour mesa]

n-no

that's not

...

[strange cloud]

Please sleep tumblr user

[lusty cypress]

Tenna as a washed up lonely has-been coaching a horse girl

[foggy python]

im afraid i dont see it

[restive comet]

https://youtu.be/fKNk6lSMxxI?si=ss4mmjQPWfT9fkGE

Why in tf do people keep making absolute banger fan themes for Starwalker specifically???

[merry arrow]

because he's the Original Starwalker

[low surge]

Fear

[low surge]

The final boss should have a cool theme after all

[restive comet]

IRUJDKUGFJC8NYUERIWD

[sage needle]

I loved the part in this video when Starwalker turned slightly with a concrete scraping noise lol

[restive comet]

Same

[restive comet]

Also

Ch4 spoilers

||I kinda wonder why Susie gets red eyes when making her Dark Fountain like Kris||

[lusty cypress]

||Determination was red in undertale
And is part of making a fountain||

[restive comet]

||True, Kris is also using all their will to persist without our soul whenever they take us out I think||

[strange cloud]

Oh you don’t have to worry about spoiling stuff anymore

This channel is a spoiler zone now

[low surge]

Chester is the Roaring Night

[strange cloud]

Jesus dude not those spoilers!

There are limits to these things!

[analog burrow]

It’s intriguing, that’s for sure. If I recall, the moments we see Kris’s red eyes are when they’re doing stuff with the soul, brandishing the knife, and very briefly when entering the dark world.

any I’m missing?

[delicate cave]

They should let Tenna race with the horses (on foot)

[ripe harbor]

Ambigiously during the shadow mantle quest

the speaker says their eyes are 'flickering red, like pretty little flames'

Kris' eyes are the BURNING EYES the song is named after, probably

[analog burrow]

Ooh true

[ripe harbor]

which, if red eyes represent Lightner determination

raising interesting questions about what the Shadow Mantle holder wants

cuz the entire game is to bring that out of Kris (and maybe you)

hmm

[analog burrow]

There is the nebulous concept of “power” being thrown around in the background

[ripe harbor]

making Dark fountains involves wounding the earth, playing the sword minigame involves stabbing things

Red eyes = violent intent?

more than just being determined, it might represent a certain way of looking at the world

[delicate cave]

Royalty is a continuous stabbing motion

[analog burrow]

Red dots…

[ripe harbor]

I was thinking about the ralsei puppet scarf (destiny = 'abandoning healing') and the Titans being giant wounded holy Things the past little bit - and what it would mean for something shaped by perception to be healed or be wounded

I almost feel like the violence done there is the perception. That things are defined by how people see them, and purifying the titans and the titan spawn is laying them to rest instead of forcing them to be monsterous

this red eye thing could probably be worked in there...

I feel like theres some underlying single thread to the eyesight & identity & fate & light / dark stuff

but I can't tell where its all going

The titans don't have any self, they don't have any self definition. Lightners turn into their idealized mental selves when going into Dark Worlds, Darkners are based on the perceptions and expectation of the Lightners who make the fountains.

Every single main character has central conflicts with their self-perception, and the expectations of society / other people / the prophecy.

Theres a whole bunch of eyes everywhere

I feel like I almost get it 😭

[analog burrow]

I made a mistake here, Kris’s eyes are white while they’re removing the soul! Which means so far the “burning eyes” show up when they’re brandishing the knife, opening the fountain, fighting the nightmare, and entering the dark world… 🧐

[ripe harbor]

To see something is to define it, to be percieved is to exist. To have ties to other people is to be more entrenched in the world. I'm guessing this is what the 'don't forget' / promise bits of the main song are about, in the same way the souls power shines brighter because of Susie at the end of chapter 4. Your connections can center your own identity, they can banish the 'indistinct' darkness.

Maybe what turns you into something like the Roaring Knight is 'forgetting' yourself?

& theres the unresolved tension of the connections you dont want, fate.

[low surge]

Dess losing herself in the darkness has been my headcanon for a while

[ripe harbor]

like its not as simple as indistinction bad, promises keep you grounded

the stinger for chapter 4 is Kris being told to continue lying to their friend and do conspiracy nonsense because of a binding tie they have

[analog burrow]

Perhaps this could tie into the sort of longing for world that no longer exists that seems to befall some of the cast

[ripe harbor]

yeah, theres an element of Dark Worlds as a catalyst for growth by showing alternative perspectives

while hometown is very static

Its like a mirror

so what is it saying to heal a mirror? What would it mean to wound it? idk

Why is clearing the Titans through Acting defined as a 'purification' 'its an Off reference doesn't cut it' >:(

Is sealing the fountains a form of healing? Or is a form of definition, overwriting what the world is with your convinction in how it should be? Is there even a difference?

[analog burrow]

Pardon the silly metaphor, but the first thing that came to mind for me was the difference between overcoming your fear vs sleeping with a machete

[ripe harbor]

Yeah, you're showing that theres nothing really to fear in the dark

and I've wondered if thats the themetaic difference between Violent routes and Pacifist

[lethal ferry]

maybe we should be thinking about "sealing" as the opposite to creating the fountains? if creating a fountain is an act of imparting your will onto the world and making it how you want it to be, maybe sealing is meant to be representative of removing that metaphorical curtain

[ripe harbor]

choosing to embrace the unknown instead of striking at it in fear, choosing to engage with the Other on their own terms instead of forcing them into your own (sharper) context

[ripe harbor]

I think it could actually be a form of healing in that sense too

the Fountains are made by violently stabbing the earth with an extreme drive

you're closing up the stab-wound when you seal the fountain, and you're stopping the flow of 'THE HOLY' into the world

[restive comet]

||When Kris fights Spamton NEO and The Roaring Knight solo, their eyes flash red for a frame when they attack and they do more damage, and I believe the secret unnamed boss in Ch3 describes a fire in their eyes||

[low surge]

Yep, the track is literally burning eyes

[rose swallow]

I...

ok youtube

sure

[lethal ferry]

most divorced man in history vs most divorced man of today

[sour mesa]

https://bsky.app/profile/miz7xf.bsky.social/post/3lv6jw3elpk2d

mochimofu (@miz7xf.bsky.social)

carol

Reposts

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1316

Bluesky · Jul 30, 2025, 11:38 AM

[restive comet]

Why do people keep making her hot???

[tropic valve]

furries

next question

[restive comet]

I'm a furry too you know

[tropic valve]

Likewise

Furries can make anything hot

[restive comet]

True

[sharp lodge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1mg37z0/dess_asriel_burgerpants_heartbreak_juan/

[restive comet]

I really like the fan designs for Dess so far

[low surge]

cant wait to see hwo far off we are from the actual dess design

[restive comet]

Yea

[ripe harbor]

woah how's she gonna be walking around with all that... Castle Town

[wheat adder]

Dilf
Deer I'd like to f(riend)

[ripe harbor]

sleeping turns out to be great for theorizing btw I woke up and immediately went
"Oh its because the Nostalgic yearning in DR characters is always about the people, literally every time."

It can reframe how other people shape your own identity - its a need.

It says "People want to form connections, people want to see but they also really want to be seen."

Maybe thats the reason you go looking in the dark enough it starts to look back?

[lethal ferry]

Huh. I hadn’t actually thought of that angle properly

[ripe harbor]

Overwhelming fear of the unknown leads to something like the Titan - Curioisity, maybe a sort of sublimated desire for anyone is what leads to ?

& thats why one is mindless and the other seems to have a personality?

[lethal ferry]

The need to be seen as an overarching theme would be really interesting if human dess theory is confirmed to be true

It puts so much more emphasis on Kris’ position in hometown

[ripe harbor]

I read an interesting post a while back looking at the ribbick text as all applying to dess ('a rowdy and unfocused girl' etc) and they ended up putting forward that she was a trouble child compared to Asriel, or even her sister.

Like it put forward that we see her as cool because the two characters who talk about her saw her as cool, but that she was ultimately a loner

could be interesting if true

[lethal ferry]

I think the asriel/dess relationship is going to end up as a mirror to Kris/noelle.

[ripe harbor]

I wonder if you can pick apart Kris' fears and worries to try and backtrace some of what was going on with Dess

especially all the bits about 'Nowhere'

[lethal ferry]

The easy connection there is dess going missing, but that doesn’t give us anything new to work with

[ripe harbor]

I mean what about her character ties into her dissapperance

its such a specific circumstance - what does it imply about her that she could literally fall into the Dream and never come out?

I dont really have any takes on that yet but its what I'm 👀 for going forward

Did she also feel out of place?

[ripe harbor]

this could also probably tie into how Darkners turning to stone works, especially with Ramb

wanting to be defined by others, wanting purpose, a lack of either means you literally can't live

[lethal ferry]

That’s likely. We know that she was at least rebellious - there’s all of the stuff in her room that points to that

[ripe harbor]

once theres no 'need' for you its over

[lethal ferry]

(I’m also a human dess truther and that also fits here)

[lethal ferry]

It could also be a general “not fitting in”. I think that’s how Ralsei explained it in ch 2

Once there is no place for you

[rain barn]

makes me think that part of what makes a titan is trying to go deeper into the dark, rejecting the light world entirely, maybe wishing it would just all go away- and the dark obliges

[lethal ferry]

You get to the other side and keep trying to find something else

The Titans might be like… a dream of a dream

[ripe harbor]

Yeah its like strangely inverse to most of the usual dark world stuff

[rain barn]

it is interesting that it starts with the fountain itself turning to stone

[ripe harbor]

instead of something inanimate gaining life and identity based on its history

its seemingly history-less, and seemingly identity-less

and I don't blame them, they are summoned by Lightners

it almost feels like a reflection of Lightners (aka our own) problems

more than a group of evil kaiju

[ripe harbor]

& theres maybe something in them being wounded, and the general holiness theming of the fountains. Maybe the act of digging that deep, or making fountains at all, is a sort of theft-from-the-divine?

complete shot in the dark

They're fundamentally reactive

[lethal ferry]

The ch 4 titan was hollow. There wasn’t anything but darkness on the inside.

Its only identity is the exterior.

[lethal ferry]

Maybe? I’m not sold on the fountains being holy.

[ripe harbor]

thats just how the game refers to them tbh

its the name of their track

[lethal ferry]

Oh ye right. Forgot about that

[ripe harbor]

it was interesting by itself, but with the Titans as angelic, the 'fallen star' & all the star motifs in general, the idea that the Dark itself is a dream - or even all 'dreams',

idk theres something funky about it

[lethal ferry]

“There something funky about it” has been my reaction to 90% of the game so far lol

[ripe harbor]

maybe the entire reason the Titans seek out life (or light?) is because they're empty

like they don't know anything but that they are incomplete

their spawns also just run straight at the light, even as it dissolves them

and their attacks include sending out its gigantic hands to grab you, with all the screens eyes watching intently

[rain barn]

I'm too tired to take this in a coherent direction but I'm also reminded of the story susie tells about the piano that she smashed

destructively lashing out at dreams crushed

[ripe harbor]

mhm

being told what she could and could-not be, being put in place

and then how that leads to her fufilling peoples expectations of her anyway, by chapter 1

thats why I never thought the Dark Worlds would represent negative escapism, at least not purely

They're what allow Susie (and other less cool characters) to conceive of other ways they could be. They allow positive character growth by providing another perspective on the world, letting you see beyond what you took as a given.

The big soul lore might honestly just end up being that the soul is what allows someone to define their own identity, that it holds the sense-of-self

and maybe more importantly what allows that self to change

[lethal ferry]

so then what does that mean for Kris?

Under that interpretation, if we also assume that Kris' soul is a representation of Us, as the players, then that line of thought leads to us imposing our own sense of identity onto Kris

Which does line up with Kris' apparent goal of freedom

[ripe harbor]

trapped in more ways than one

I still wonder what they said here

"I know"? "You're right"? Did they hit her with the ?

and theres still an open question if they were the speaker at the start who thinks "Nobody can choose who they are in this world."

The Mantle quest concludes with the speaker taunting Kris for knowing, deep down, that they are a little fucked up. That they can't deny the truth of themselves.

So theres already a thread set up for them thinking something is Wrong with them

that they are doing what they are doing, not because its what they want, but out of resignation and guilt

but it is still their bonds that let them feel better about who they are

idk how that ties into whatever is going on with the soul

Doctor Gaster's Nefarious Goon Squad won't let me read the cool books 😔

[ripe harbor]

there is something to the Soul being the important part of the first hero in the prophecy, and critical to the conspiracy's plan

Kris sees and treats the soul as a tool,

but to the broader context of the world, they are seen as just the soul. It already defines them.

(except to their closer friends)

and since they are working to the conspiracy's ends, seemingly by choice

it means Kris is choosing to be used as a tool, to have their identity subsumed

[amber jolt]

https://deltaprophecy.vercel.app/

[strange cloud]

https://youtu.be/A0a1rSnAE9I?si=JhkTPDGryeISOSZb

[ripe harbor]

this could be big if true

[ripe harbor]

this could also be big if true

[strange cloud]

From @nitrovu

The roaring group chat dropped out

[low surge]

“Susie we gotta stop all these dark fountains! Who knows what nefarious plans the knight has!”
The fuckass roaring groupchat aura farming in the bunker

[strange cloud]

W.D has been aura farming for longer then some Deltarune fans have been alive

[ripe harbor]

I was talking about this the other day but

he's actually had a huge aura glow up

look at this

damn bro ok. I see you.

[strange cloud]

Wait where’s that prophecy?

I don’t remember that form anywhere

[ripe harbor]

its in the big room with all the stone darkners

[strange cloud]

Oh

[ripe harbor]

in a 'Gallery', kind of

which is probably why its easier to overlook

but I think this is probably Gaster's first not-fun-event depiction

yeah there it is

[strange cloud]

I mean… large gash in the face

Checks out

[ripe harbor]

Gallery is also the name of a repeated track in the OST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MAep7ml3A

[strange cloud]

What’s the track?

Oh that song

[ripe harbor]

and ofc means "A place where art is displayed" but also "the observers of such a place"

[strange cloud]

I remember that during king’s fight but nowhere else

[ripe harbor]

the prophecy can be read as "(the) Gallery", aka the spectators

plays before Queen and the Titan too, afaik

[sour mesa]

this is going to sound sarcastic but i'm serious about it: i need obnoxious red arrows to label face/body/etc.

[strange cloud]

Ah yah

[ripe harbor]

https://youtu.be/qTWjeN23bv4?si=nQ6nx1wYpUrOXRHu&t=621

[strange cloud]

So essentially during places of like, 0 hope

Where things are looking their worse

Huh

I mean, yah spectator does fit Gaster’s role so far

Spectator and like, facilitator anyway

[ripe harbor]

its based on the assumption this is a specific guy

[sour mesa]

i seee

[ripe harbor]

its got an x'd out head, but is upright, unlike the 'slashed' deltarune you see later

[strange cloud]

Yah, cracks or marks on the face are so far a symbol only associate with Gaster

Rouxls’s face is more, drippy

[low surge]

I swear if Rouxls ends up being some faster bullshit man

[ripe harbor]

Its also in the error messages

and also just fits the vibes, imo of how you'd depict gaster

[low surge]

Face was not connected

[ripe harbor]

like its not just a vague silhouette of man

its important that the face itself is slashed across

[strange cloud]

Yah

[ripe harbor]

he's also associated a bit with big boxes

the game window, save files + the battlebox in that specific shade of green

[strange cloud]

Device theory mentioned

[ripe harbor]

That prophecy could be completely unrelated, its just a hunch I have

[strange cloud]

I mean until we see someone else with a big slash on their face betting it’s Gaster related is a safe bet

[ripe harbor]

the way crazier guess was when I saw someone send it back like

idk if I truck with that read lmao

but, sure, the curtains kind of look like a black cat. Maybe.

[strange cloud]

…I’m a friend guy

That’s a stretch though

Like that’s genuinely just a case of those shapes being common

[ripe harbor]

it would be sick if both were true. But its absolutely wild guesswork

[analog burrow]

My first thought was that the circle is pretty much in the same position as it is in the titular “Delta Rune” if that’s anything

[ripe harbor]

its just funny to image the Darkness gang chilling next to each other watching things.

[strange cloud]

Gaster and his weird pet cat

[low surge]

While Molly may have missed some stuff about like future plot I still think device theory more or less stands still

[strange cloud]

Same

[ripe harbor]

I never finished the whole series

The only snag I'd poke at is a strictly hierarchal interpretation of dark -> light

like often Gaster or 'The Device' is put above the Light World in a strict gradient of whats 'real'

but Gaster fell into the Dark. He went down.

I don't think its a simple as him being to the Lightners what the Lightners are to the Darkners

great videos though

[strange cloud]

That’s fair, I do kinda still think though due to him not mentioning any darkners in his “very special” list

Like not mentioning Carol or Dess makes sense to not spoil, but why not Ralsei?

[ripe harbor]

true

I more just mean that it seems like the Darkness isn't just lower than the light, but 'around' it

[strange cloud]

Yah I could see it

[ripe harbor]

like, if its just a series of nested narratives, its weird that Gaster went 'upwards' by falling in!

[strange cloud]

You go deep enough and it wraps around

[ripe harbor]

Its like the unformed bits of creation, an empty page

[strange cloud]

Also for my actual opinion, it is weird the idea of Gaster seeing the worlds as hierarchical if he fell deep enough

[ripe harbor]

also I put this video on and she starts talking about this exact point 💀

[restive comet]

I kinda imagine Gaster and Dess being in a layer of darkness even deeper than The Titans

[strange cloud]

However I definitely think that in his “intended” Deltarune, the dark world exists to serve the light worlds

Idk if he made the world

But I definitely think he believes in that idea

[strange cloud]

Lol

[ripe harbor]

cool graph

[ripe harbor]

yeah I wonder if its less up vs. down and more inside vs. outside

[low surge]

Drink deep and descend?

[ripe harbor]

Gaster fell 'out' of the world

[strange cloud]

Gaster is practically lich tbh

Man, now I kinda wanna make a lich pilot based off Gaster

[ripe harbor]

when I put 6 LLs into Horus and I get reset to being a grunt

[low surge]

I see it like concentric layers I guess, bubbles around bubbles. So Gaster “fell” into the layer outside of the light world

[restive comet]

Doesn't piloting a Lich essentially Gaster yourself by default?

[strange cloud]

Yah, I think we can all at least agree Gaster definitely exists somewhere else that’s not the light and dark worlds anymore

[ripe harbor]

I gtg soon so I can't super get into this, but its still very curious how all the 'Noelle = Gaster fan' actually has a just-as-strong or stronger connection to Friend now.

[strange cloud]

You defeat a lich pilot and they drop a shadow crystal

[restive comet]

Pffft

[ripe harbor]

It makes a lot of easier pulls for something being Gaster related more ambigious

Is the Lost Girl / Freedom motif a Gaster thing, or is it a Friend thing?

[strange cloud]

I mean for Noelle specifically it’s helped by her theme containing the Gaster motif

So until we hear a proper song for friend, Noelle seems more related to him then the cat

[restive comet]

In that case
Pegasus pilots: https://youtu.be/as6pUjlWuTs?si=h5D15aro2q-yfSRq

[ripe harbor]

the 5 note quote she repeats is a bit of the 'Freedom' theme

which does seem to be built from Gaster's theme

[strange cloud]

Ah yah

[ripe harbor]

... which is why its odd that theres just as good evidence now for Friend being related to those secret bosses

thats why its confusing

when the only suspect was Gaster, it all fit a lot easier

[strange cloud]

Yah friend, Gaster and the knight are kinda all sharing the “related to the secret bosses” label now

[ripe harbor]

Garbage Noise = Gaster, weird secrets = Gaster, Gaster's theme = Gaster. Job done.

but every weird secret on Noelle's blog ended up relating to

[restive comet]

Would technically any HORUS frame pilot save for maybe the Kobold become a Deltarune secret boss btw?

[ripe harbor]

Smiling plugs in the basement, Ice Palace mazes, 'Burning Eyes' on a pizza box that she saw as a face in the darkness (like Ralsei's DW cutscene)

Glitchy angel cats

[strange cloud]

Yah, though that’s mostly related to Spamton and Eram specifically

Gerson and Jevil seem more related to the knight, with Jevil being the only person we know has met them and Gerson being Dess’s teacher

[ripe harbor]

Gorgon would be a fun one. Overly attached secret boss

[analog burrow]

Honestly, I think ERAM/Nightmare and FRIEND are one and the same

[ripe harbor]

which is why its also weird that both Seam and Gerson described the knight in ambigiously seperate ways to the 'strange someone' related to the shadow crystals

both characters have no trouble singling out the knight in their dialogue

both characters mention a vague 'someone' as well

[strange cloud]

Yah, but also the shadow crystals don’t even seem directly related to the secret bosses knowledge

[ripe harbor]

(and in Seams case the split seems almost more deliberate, the knight has spooky RED TEXT while the 'someone' doesnt)

[restive comet]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-asgore-kris-asgore-head-pat-asgore-dreemurr-gif-13340822203207892095

[strange cloud]

Spamton didn’t have a secret boss himself, he found it in the neo body

Gerson never even used the thing and he clearly knows a lot

Jevil could be similar

His knowledge coming from another source then the shadow crystal

[ripe harbor]

& this is also a big reason I think they aren't coming directly from the Knight

Queen's account of what the knight did, and what she saw of them

absolutely doesn't match the Shadow Crystal being in the Neo body

[restive comet]

Actually, what HORUS frame would each of the secret bosses so far use?

[strange cloud]

I think they’re different (their laughs are different) but I think Eram is like, the ringleader of the friends who are less a specific entity and more a type of entity

But that’s my speculation

[analog burrow]

fair

[analog burrow]

Do we know this for sure though? I can’t remember the evidence, if you’ll excuse me.

[ripe harbor]

Seam says it outright post chapter 2

[analog burrow]

Ah

[strange cloud]

Yah seam says it

[analog burrow]

that’s what I was forgetting

[ripe harbor]

"So, that salesman found the crystal in that old machine?"

and then something like "I wonder... hmmm.... perhaps that body meant a lot to a specific Lightner....?"

[analog burrow]

hmm, I suppose that could be why Spamton thought it’d bring him freedom

[strange cloud]

Which is also weird because that implies the shadow crystal is related to lightner dreams

But there’s also no other connections between lightner dreams and shadow crystals

[low surge]

It being in the NEO body makes sense with the theory shadow crystals may be tears shed for unfulfilled dreams, problem is what that means for all the other crystals

[analog burrow]

and given Nightmare’s comments about our search for the crystals, why it freaked Kris out so much

[strange cloud]

Oh yah the knight’s tears line

[low surge]

The knight crystal is easy to plug into that theory

[restive comet]

I feel like The Shadow Crystals represent a broken dream, and gathering them up and putting them back together will show what that was

[ripe harbor]

theres a little bit in like

supplementary vibes

[low surge]

Unsure on Jevil, who would weep for Jevil or why?

[ripe harbor]

'that twinkles like broken dreams'

[analog burrow]

could be as simple as “we don’t know yet”, but who’s to say

[restive comet]

Ah

[strange cloud]

Unfortunately finding the answer for that would require Jevil to become relevant again

[low surge]

Gersons could be from Alvin?

[strange cloud]

Probably

[ripe harbor]

and whatever this is

[low surge]

He only wakes up when it’s time to gamble

[ripe harbor]

yeah like its his dreams of writing, buried

[strange cloud]

…that’s gotta be Dess/The Knight right?

Like, fallen star just feels right for her

[ripe harbor]

I think its ambigiously vague enough to fit multiple things, probably even on purpose

[strange cloud]

She’s already super associated with stars and probably fell into darkness

[low surge]

Plus I imagine digging up his dead dad didn’t help with his obvious feelings of inferiority

That’s my thought tbh

The fallen star is dess

[ripe harbor]

the Titans are 'stars' that weep '''water'''. Dess / The Knight cries when you meet her.

and has all those stars in her room

[low surge]

And the crystals could be those tears

[ripe harbor]

Gaster is a 'fallen star' with all the demon stuff he's got going on, & has ties to the shadowbosses

[low surge]

The real truth nuke is that Dess is still the fallen star, but not the knight. The knight was made from her tears

[strange cloud]

Also the knight’s sword is literally made of shadow crystals

[ripe harbor]

like some king of Nightmare,, Knight...

[low surge]

Black shard looks like glass

[strange cloud]

Like, chipping it gets you the black shard and a shadow crystal

[low surge]

Is part of the knights sword

Which seems to be part of the knight

[strange cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[low surge]

Therefore the knight is glass

One of my few theories I feel is kinda cooking

[ripe harbor]

I think it kind of fits symbolically if glass is solidified darkness

vague dreamstuff shaped into a specific vision

a specific dream

which I guess would make the prophecy one really big dream? unsure

[analog burrow]

but then of course you got whatever the hell is up with the black shard(s), which are distinctly not shadow crystals

[strange cloud]

I mean it’d fit

The chapter dealing with the prophecy talks so much about dreams

Especially with the philosophers

“Who’s dream is this anyway?”

[low surge]

Not crystals but still glass, I think maybe it’s like tears shed within the darkness? Shadow crystals come from lightners in the light world, maybe the black glass happens inside the darkness?

[ripe harbor]

theres also this on Tenna's board

[low surge]

It’s a bit of a stretch but we don’t really know who that shit works

[ripe harbor]

the 'ocean' leaves 'washed up glass'

specifically abandoned

[analog burrow]

And also, the light world description makes note of how it’s almost entirely opaque

[low surge]

Repeating all it knew

Is interesting

[ripe harbor]

and the conches 'words', how it interacts with the world, is just it being shaped by its context

[ripe harbor]

ya

Is the conch Tenna? Is it Spamton? Is it a broader thematic point? Baby Bones confirmed???

whatever it is, it goes pretty hard

[ripe harbor]

I seperated the lines because you have a choice to hold it to your ear or not

if you don't, you get "But you could still hear the sound of the ocean"

[strange cloud]

It’s baby bones

[ripe harbor]

regardless of the choice you make, you hear the ocean

🤔

[low surge]

Togore Dreemur, the son of Asgore and Tutorial Dreemur

[ripe harbor]

like some king of Song, from the Deep

[low surge]

This is jumping around a bit but Im still on a bit of copium that the “black shard” Asgore talks about isn’t his own shard but rather the black katana in front of him

[strange cloud]

Honestly love how much Deltarune uses the places not possible in the underground as it’s thematic cores

The outside Vs the inside, an impossible distinction in the underground, is key to dark worlds

[ripe harbor]

and the spawn 'sputtering in a voice like crushed glass' and asking 'when did you start being yourself?'

[strange cloud]

The ocean

[ripe harbor]

I think part of where Deltarune is going is having this sort of perspective apply to the Lightner characters, eventually

Setting up the questions about identity and how people define themselves

its more obvious when its your TV come to life and re-enacting your parents divorce, but is there a hardline difference between it 'repeating all it knows' and you?

Everyone is shaped by context

[low surge]

When did you start being yourself fucks me up like yeah actually when did that happen?

[analog burrow]

Man, for what is effectively a tutorial for the titan, the spawn encounter is

[ripe harbor]

tutorial for the Titan -> Spawn encounter

how quickly he is forgotten....

[strange cloud]

Like, 5 years for me

Also Chatroom, we’re absolutely getting a stronger Titan fighter later right?

Like bringing the TP reduction gimmick back

[low surge]

Brother we’re getting the Made in Heaven fight we’re cooked

[ripe harbor]

I think the roarings going to start and you'll beat titan(s) easier than chapter 4,

[sage needle]

Oh absolutely

[ripe harbor]

but it wont be enough

the cracks been made and the darkness pours forward, you'd have to stop it at the source

[sage needle]

We wouldn't see a titan in 4 if we weren't going to see another

[strange cloud]

Especially a baby Titan

[analog burrow]

Or at the very least some more spawn

[low surge]

That Titan was one of the skinny ones on the side

Don’t forget the big boy in the center of that image

[sage needle]

I'm still curious about "you grew stronger" when killing the spawn

Like I doubt that just locked a majority of the player base into a bad ending but it is curious

[strange cloud]

Its fucked

I have no idea what for

[low surge]

I mean it’s understandable seeing as we’re told they’re mindless and it’s a lot easier to kill them (I assume, I didn’t)

[strange cloud]

It’s easier if you have the black shard

Otherwise they have way to much HP for it to be practical

[sage needle]

I got the black shard so I wanted to test it out

[low surge]

Ah okay

[sage needle]

Is that true? I didn't even think about how much hp they had

[low surge]

I do wonder how mindless they truly are. I don’t think Ralsei is lying, he’s too busy tweaking imo. I think he just thinks that. If that’s true or now not clue

[ripe harbor]

DR equates 'getting stronger' after fights with breaking bonds

[low surge]

They certainly seem to lack any sort of self preservation, the spawn hurl themselves towards the light

[ripe harbor]

I think even if the spawn are mindless, it basically changes how you approach the world to cut them down

It makes it easier to stick to your own perspective in the future

so your HP and Damage goes up

[restive comet]

They remind me about a quote from Dark Souls being "we are born from the dark and yet still seek the warmth and comfort of light"

[analog burrow]

Y’know how after chapter 2 Noelle is less afraid of mice regardless of route, but there’s still a difference?

[low surge]

It’s odd since I can’t see how there’s a bond being broken in this instance. Unlike basically every single enemy you encounter in the game, they’re just automatically and entirely hostile. Not even some silly dialogue or stuff to show that even as they attack you they aren’t so bad. Pretty far separated from every other encounter. Unless the idea is that even something that’s more akin to a wild animal still deserves to be treated right, that you ultimately have a bond to all things whether you realize it or not?

[ripe harbor]

I think its about how you approach the Other

the dark worlds are dreams, and they are kind of 'reflections / mirrors', too

Even if its not 'real', you change

so dealing with manifestations of fear by cutting into them until they stop moving says something about how you react to fear

and that sort of readiness to fight, holding tight to your weapons, is a sort of strength. It makes you 'stronger'.

ah fuck its KSBD again

[sage needle]

Susie shall attain true royalty

[low surge]

Oops All K6BD

[ripe harbor]

Half-Bread Chaos noted a long time ago that quietness and a lack of social connection is associated with strength in Darkners

I think they pulled up Head Hathy and Werewerewire specifically

[strange cloud]

Royalty is a continual stabbing motion

[ripe harbor]

strength and 'coldness' and hiding your emotions

[tidal fox]

Ninuan connection to the dark keeps happening haha

[ripe harbor]

(I was thinking about how Nobilis treats fate-as-context earlier this week and kind of comparing with Deltarune)

[tidal fox]

by which I mean that things in Ninuan are solipsistic and entirely just the way they dream themselves to be
perception and connection to another is a Creational concept

being perceived by another means they define you and change you

and they are also similarly both "not real"

[analog burrow]

so basically the knight aura-farming is key to their strength
||/j||

[lusty cypress]

The horror of perception

[tidal fox]

correct
perception is violence

your dream of self is being violated by being defined by their attention

anyway, it's not a one to one obviously, but it's still fun to me to see the parallels when they are there

[ripe harbor]

which is why I think its interesting songs like 'Dont Forget' and the pacifist stuff in general is about power formed through being percieved

to not be percieved is to not-be. Break all your bonds- nothing holds you to the world.

[lusty cypress]

Strategist making dark worlds

[ripe harbor]

Kris is dying of Self

WR follows the connection stuff too. Noelle is much stronger after Snowgrave because shes able to treat someone she has a closer personal relationship as 'just another enemy'. She breaks that bond.

But you as the soul are also trying to forge a stronger connection with Noelle.

You are trying to make yourself the strongest tie in her life, to influence her?

Because everybody is shaped by the connections they have to others?

this work is COOKING something and its cooking something big

its going to Say Things about the boundary between the self and the world and how thin it really is

and I can't wait

[ripe harbor]

(this is scary because royalty involves a certain acceptance of fate...)

[strange cloud]

Also Chatroom, I was looking through some old messages for when chapter 2 dropped

It shouldn’t count but I’m counting it

[analog burrow]

As far as I’m concerned, Kris is a knight, just not a roaring one 😎

[sharp lodge]

https://www.rxddit.com/gallery/1mgn1x6

https://old.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1mgf3hc/krusie_headcanon_sketches_art_by_eidinazavr/

[cloud wedge]

Is there a way to restart the current chapter I'm on without have to do everything from scratch?

[sour mesa]

Sure, just start from the chapter menu

[strange cloud]

Kris does seem like a red Sox’s them…

[ripe harbor]

isn't the greatest person
'opposite personality'
chat do they know

[strange cloud]

https://www.vxtiktok.com/t/ZP8kH7BCU/

[merry arrow]

makes sense, that's where Toby Fox is from

[low surge]

They all have the most horrific Boston accents imaginable and we had no idea

Except for Susie, since she’s new in town

She’s from Pittsburgh 💀

[low surge]

Oh shit I forgot that

She’s from Wisconsin 💔

[restive comet]

What's a bubbler?

[strange cloud]

Wisconsin slang for water fountain

[restive comet]

Ah

[inland hare]

Massachusetts also calls water fountains bubblers

and Toby was born in MA

so its most likely somewhere in MA

hometown, I mean

[strange cloud]

Unfortunately it more implies it’s elsewhere I think

Because Susie only moved to hometown recently

Meaning while she may have been raised in MA hometown probably is elsewhere

[merry arrow]

I think Susie is from Boston and moved to Hometown, which is rural/suburban MA

[inland hare]

Yeah that’s what I think

[low surge]

7 hour video by Molly Stars theorizing where Hometown is

I’m seated

[restive comet]

JLHERKJKDHFJC8UI

[low surge]

Absolute cinema

I don’t know why but I headcanon Hometown being in New Jersey

[ripe harbor]

This is pretty much what I assumed from the foliage and brick buildings tbh

it gets real vibrant up there

[cloud wedge]

That starts a new file with nothing from storage

[sharp lodge]

https://youtu.be/-RFPCFUmTeo?si=0fXDzuoFcwh2uMX5

[strange cloud]

Roaring Knight solos Fraud.exe

[sharp lodge]

https://www.rxddit.com/gallery/1mh4bjr

[clear frost]

Peak

[ripe harbor]

thinking about the focus on characters in DR wanting to reach out, or be seen by others,
I think its interesting that the first words in the game & the first thing Gaster says is "Are you there?"

its also something that crops up in the UNUSED speaker's text

they don't want to be alone

It might be the primary motivation among characters in the story. A desire for connection.

And why the important thing to 'not forget' is the bonds you have

[low surge]

Which makes the whole “break bonds to become stronger” thing seem so much worse

[ripe harbor]

mhm

Its one of those things that underlying a lot of the story so far

not just bonds, but the reasons people want them. Or need them, to exist in a meaningful way?

Maybe the power of the soul that lets it seal fountains and banish the dark is the Connection itself

[inland hare]

but if that's true

wh does breaking connections make the Soul stronger

i do think bonds re a big theme in this game though

everyone in the light world is missing some kind of bond

[ripe harbor]

Could be releated to self-definition?

Connections to others and the world can define you, but it also means you're giving some power to them.

[inland hare]

makes sense

[ripe harbor]

Promises you make can hold you back, versus just your own will.

[inland hare]

unused muscules atrophy

[ripe harbor]

but yeah thats also what I'm 🤔 on

because the game has it both ways

[inland hare]

dependencies make you weaker

keep that knife arm sharp and strong

[ripe harbor]

breaking bonds makes you 'stronger', but those bonds can be drawn on for 'power'

so idk what the end point is to it all

[ripe harbor]

yeah this was kinda the big thing that got me on this read, too

Everybody is mourning some type of connection they've lost, or lonely and wanting to make one in the first place

when even Gaster is opening the Twitter Announcement by pogging out about how you've both been looking for each other, and its excellent that you can finally meet,

It really does seem like it might be the main thing about Deltarune

it could even link up with the metafictional elements, of creations coming to life because their creator wants to make something beyond them. An Other.

[inland hare]

anyways

truly parasites are the only truly powerful and vibrant organism

they interact with other life in a one way connection

they penetrate, control, subjugate, evolve, and repurpose

they have no autonomy of their own but they do have control

[low surge]

Parasite connection is neat, with the vines/roots/thorns/flower symbols abounding

[inland hare]

yeah

the Player is akin to a parasite in that regard in the sense that connection of a player to a world of the game is a one way connection

except in Deltarune

it's somewhat two way

[ripe harbor]

'One-way connection' fans when they realize the world they've touched has left its mark on them in turn:

[inland hare]

and the player usually lacks true autonomy

because their ability to control is defined by the game they are playing

[ripe harbor]

I think this is maybe where the memory thing is going to enter

[inland hare]

you know its kinda funny

that I think I saw this plot beat in Hello Charlotte too lmao

[ripe harbor]

Your experiences are the marks left by connection

oh is that a web comic?

[inland hare]

THE FLESH WILL PREVAIL

no its a game

Charlotte is a meta-aware protag in the games in the sense that she's aware that she's being controlled

in 3 you play as Q84 (which is a version that resents the fact that she's being controlled and makes it known to you multiple times

(but Q84's relative autonomy and meta-awareness means she can pull off some truly bullshit moves)

(like intentionally ||killing herself|| instead of going to a doctor because she knows she'll respawn anyways)

its cheper and faster

she's also far more opinionated and won't let you choose to ignore something she considers to be personally fucked up

(even though she's also like, a serial killer lmao)

[ripe harbor]

I might check this out later lmao

sounds interesting

[ripe harbor]

"Megalovania" this and "Penumbra" that....
REAL ones bet on a 'Vs. Kris' that references 'An Apple Disaster!'

[low surge]

Truth Roaring

[analog burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-chapter-4-deltarune-deltarune-chapter-4-roaring-knight-true-gifs-gif-10457574261792655678

[low surge]

I am so happy this gif exists

[rose swallow]

o shit

it turns out sans has some unique dialogue if you beat the chapter 3 secret boss without the shadow mantle

it has some pretty big lore implications

[sour mesa]

whoah

[ripe harbor]

why would baby bones do thi

s

[low surge]

Will Knight confirmed?

[amber jolt]

https://bsky.app/profile/poobit-pespillo.bsky.social/post/3lvllp3qebc22

🎭 Samsa/Micha ☀️ (@poobit-pespillo.bsky.social)

#utdr #deltarune college Asriel, Chara n Frisk // ive never seen a fat adult Chara design i think

Bluesky · Aug 4, 2025, 4:15 PM

[ruby garnet]

https://youtu.be/-2276WYBgpM?si=yeVEVSnzkbR55oH0

[restive comet]

You use a tool to make these or just photoshop or some other manual art/editing program?

I feel tempted to make my own

[low surge]

https://hippowatermelon.github.io/deltaprophecy/

[restive comet]

Thanks

[low surge]

Latest patch makes it so you can get another Trip Ticket even after you already have the shadow mantle

Why tho

[sharp lodge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/_5mmjw4WygU?si=Twwpl6FQ9hBMPMLE

[ripe harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3Q4V9VpLaU

[low surge]

It’s gonna go insane in 2029 when someone makes a mashup of all the boss themes

[strange cloud]

We WILL be seated

[ripe harbor]

there WILL be multiple sick-as-fuck art pieces with every shadowboss aurafarming as a gang

and it WILL be peak

[restive comet]

Btw, can I ask wtf even is the secret boss in the private game room where you get the Shadow Mantle???

They feel like an SCP

[dense cargo]

We don't know!

Apart from the fact that the boss you see and fight seems to be someone puppeteering the Shadow Mantle itself, we've barely got anything.

Also that they're a jerk.

[restive comet]

Yeahhh

I kinda feel like they're probably who Kris and The Knight are working for

[low surge]

Two popular theories are its FRIEND or a currently unknown entity

I lean towards the latter personally

But really there’s so little to go off of

They’ve seemingly known Kris since they were young

Of course is that dark world shenanigans or something

[restive comet]

I know someone made a theory that they're the demon Kris, Catti and Noelle summoned when they were little kids

[low surge]

I do fw that interpretation yea, dark mirror to Kris is good

It’s pretty clear that Kris had a history of violent outbursts, and that fits the much more sadistic personally of whoever ERAM is

[strange cloud]

https://youtu.be/a_6wj2zCpfc?si=LR-Ug4mSZ3gaV6Kl

[low surge]

I’m sure people will have a very measured and respectful response to this video and its content

[strange cloud]

In the undertale fandom? Absolutely

[low surge]

That’s a good video

Love Stuffed Alpacas stuff

[strange cloud]

They’re really good

[low surge]

More or less aligns with what I’ve been thinking as of late, glad that someone out there can articulate this stuff because I sure as shit can’t

[ripe harbor]

Some entity that

• Knows Kris
• Knows about the Shadow Crystals
• Isn't forseen by Seam, who calls the Knight & ||Gerson's|| battles before they occur
• Is ambigiously related to the Shelter, or Kris' past, or the Dark itself: hiding inside of it in the game
• Has 'work to do'
• May be the same thing that gave you the OddController

[low surge]

You know I didn’t catch the Seam part

Seam knew about the Knight but not them

[ripe harbor]

the Shadow Crystal part means it would be neatest if it was the same 'Someone' that talked to Jevil, or Spamton's mysterious benefactor

[low surge]

And after all they didn’t know how the shadow mantle disappeared

[ripe harbor]

ya, cause Seam talks about it both before and after Chapter 3

they dont know what happened to the Shadow Mantle

they're surprised-

and then they dont know how in the world you found it

[low surge]

You’d think if they knew the knight was coming and that they thought the knight did it, there’d be some hint

Fuckery afoot

[ripe harbor]

So whatever it is might be something on the edges of fate, or not in the prophecy or something

considering Chapter 3's Sword route also outlines 'The forbidden path'

and this character has unique dialogue on a snowgrave run

idk maybe it wants you to do Snowgrave

[ripe harbor]

Which could tie into a relationship with Spamton

[low surge]

“Kris you should start killing people that would be really cool I think” - John Mantle

[ripe harbor]

it might be the thing that 'pulls the strings and makes them ring'

[low surge]

I still hold out that ERAM is their own character but logically it makes sense that it’s whatever the fuck FRIEND is or at least ties heavily into it

[ripe harbor]

only Seam calls them Shadow Crystals, right?

and this entity?

Even Gerson just says 'weird piece of Glass'

[low surge]

Yeah

[ripe harbor]

thats something I don't think I really noted until now

It knows things that are only ever referred to by Seam

so probably at least as knowledgeable as them

[ripe harbor]

I think is the frontrunner for the character 'speaking' through Mantle to Kris

[inland hare]

FRIEND

[ripe harbor]

but its super ambiguous

[low surge]

The mantle was something in the classroom most likely yeah? Just wonder what it’s real world equivalent is and if that would give any clues

[strange cloud]

What does Swatch call them?

[ripe harbor]

I dont think Swatch refers to the Crystals in general

just says the person they helped make the machine with infused it with 'an incredible power'

'[a Lightner's] own hope'

an embodiment of someones dream

[strange cloud]

Ah right

It’s seam that mentions the crystal was in the machine

[low surge]

Hopes… AND dreams????

Roll credits

[ripe harbor]

Its still not clear what exactly shadow crystals.... do

not even when you use them

but what they did for, like, Jevil

[low surge]

I wonder if the “repeating all it knows” line about the conch shell means anything

The cold glare from Susie, being close to Noelle, seeing through your hand

[strange cloud]

Rn they show Kris without their hand and Susie looking angrily at them

[ripe harbor]

I'm its an overarching theme thing

[low surge]

Last one feels more metaphorical, lack of personhood

The rest though seem like stuff that’s happened in the past?

[ripe harbor]

Darkner's Identities are born from perception, they mirror what they know

[low surge]

Susie being a bully and memories of Kris and Noelle being close?

[strange cloud]

But then there’s the hand

[low surge]

Yeah that one is a hangup

[strange cloud]

Unless it’s meant to show a time before Kris existed

[ripe harbor]

Maybe its how you're seen by the world? Or by other people in general? Or self perception?

[strange cloud]

But also Kris seems to lose their hand in other places

[ripe harbor]

Kris is seen as, or sees themselves as, invisible?