Undertale and Deltarune

[inland hare]

The man’s got the power to warp space time like putty and he uses it to prank a pair of teenagers

[lethal ferry]

i would do the same

[strange cloud]

My goat FR

[delicate cave]

Sans works on Bugs Bunny rules. He can do anything as long as it's funny

[lusty cypress]

Hey, we talked about ice and water symbolism
Don't fountains also sometimes look like flames?

[low surge]

Yeah, they occasionally look like dark fire

[inland hare]

Who is the third

Who always walks besides you

[sage needle]

||Jesus||

[inland hare]

I will show you fear in a handful of dust

[low surge]

|| I wonder how in on everything Asgore truly is in regards to the knight conspiracy. He’s got to be in the dark about a few things because I highly doubt he’d be okay with a lot of what’s happened/is currently happening to Kris. Like he’s got to be involved for sure but to what extent? I think people assume he’s got to be all in but I’m not so sure. ||

[inland hare]

I don't think he knows a lot

[low surge]

(Wait can we stop talking in spoilers now? How long is that restriction in place?)

[ripe harbor]

(this is also a solid reason for them to be upset by spamton's situation, seeing as they're also 'trapped' in a situation where they traded their agency for their goals, while following the orders of a mysterious voice over the phone.)

[restive comet]

I feel like they initially took the soul feeling like they had nothing left to lose and are now having LOTS of second thoughts once they realized what they gained and have
||Like they freeze up and nearly have a heart attack when the rest of the party confronts The Roaring Knight, crumpling up in fear and possibly remorse by the end once everyone else is down after the closest thing to a win against them||

[ripe harbor]

yeah they're in a rough spot

[crimson ocean]

i honestly feel like they dont hate everything thats come with being possesed

[ripe harbor]

I think they've also got a fear of being 'Used Up'

[restive comet]

Agreed

[crimson ocean]

^♥️

[ripe harbor]

not even necessarily by us, but even by that conspiracy

or the prophecy itself or something

[restive comet]

Yeah

[crimson ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/gaster-undertale-deltarune-burger-wd-gaster-gif-5981715755700300133

[low surge]

Chat is this real

[ripe harbor]

@ Mike is this true

(from vezuitt on twitter)

[restive comet]

Ch3 spoiler:
||I also remember Tenna saying that Toriel would be "in danger" if she woke up and/or was let out of the capsule, which makes me wonder if Kris lied to him in order to protect her by telling him it's what The Knight wants||

[ripe harbor]

btw I think one of the more interesting things brought up here is the idea that Dess might've been the person to discard the vessel in the intro sequence

I hadn't thought about that, but its kinda cooking

"With your heart as my mark which shall guide you the way..."

I was reading it as mark like 'target'

but the read is compelling. Its definitely more relevant to DR than Chara, and its a little bit more dramatic than just Kris

[strange cloud]

It also just clears up a lot of the weird inconsistencies with second voice Kris, mostly in that Kris repeatedly and consistently draws a line in the sand between themselves and you

And the final thing the second voice says is “your name is Kris”

Which besides sounding weird for kris to start talking about themselves in the third person, it also avoids that weird thing where kris claims you are them while also repeatedly showing you they’re not them

[ripe harbor]

well the narrator can split it both ways in normal route, its only really in the weird route the distinction is hardline

but I agree that Kris was always basically just a shrug and a "iunno. who else could it be?"

[lusty cypress]

Yeah, and even then, Kris fears wanting what the weird route soul wants, if we take the taunts in sword route

[strange cloud]

I mean I’m not talking about the narrator, I’m talking about Kris themselves

Their first act upon ripping us out was to look directly at us

[ripe harbor]

ah yeah, I see what you mean

so of anybody, they'd make a distinction between us when speaking directly

thats probably true

[lusty cypress]

Some Tenna hurt/comfort
||https://www.tumblr.com/vokoy/788112441666043904?source=share||

[fluid path]

somewhat related, why do people think Mike is a pippins?

Mike seems to transcend

[sour mesa]

if you find the optional Mike fight ||one of the Mikes is a pippins||

[fluid path]

oh I see

[ripe harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/pippins-deltarune-delta-rune-chapter-3-freaking-out-gif-13044638781507916394

the best one

[vocal elbow]

Avatar of the UT/DR Theorists.

[ripe harbor]

its very funny that at least 1/3rd of the Mike room does seem to be 'yeah heres a bunch more nods towards the weird other cat related creature. its just it's name isn't Mike'

ngl I'm kind of more of a mike believer after playing the Mike room. which is a crazy thing to say.

[low surge]

Believer in what way?

[lusty cypress]

Praise Mike

Worship Mike

Follow Mike's commandments

Mike is love. Mike is life

[low surge]

I’m a Mikepilled Plueycel

I’m foreshadowmaxxing

[inland hare]

I believe that Mike exists

[fluid path]

please don't say any of that evwr again

[sour mesa]

Foreshadow Max is the secret villain of ch5 i think

going for a combo of theatre motifs and a Plato's Cave thing

[low surge]

It’s a trio fight with his buddies Metaphor Steve and Motif Rachel

[inland hare]

I am curious about what the secret bosses for future chapters would be

[low surge]

Yeah, the pattern is kind of out the window

Not kind of, very is

[sour mesa]

Ch5 main boss is Asgore and secret boss is also Asgore

[white basalt]

the miniboss is also asgore

[vocal elbow]

Wait, something just occurred to me. Assuming Asgore's shop is the next Dark World I wonder what putting the Egg in the fridge would do.

[crystal shale]

I think Asgore will be 6 actually

I think hes gonna be the last one before the Shelter

[dense cargo]

Why?

[crystal shale]

I have a working theory that Asgore knows the code to the Shelter, and long story short I think him being the "final" Boss before the Shelter makes narrative sense

But I could very well be wrong

[dense cargo]

But then what is ||"the field of pink and gold" going to be, in your opinion?||

[crystal shale]

No clue!

[dense cargo]

||Cause there's not many other places with flowers. and Asgore is the only character associated with them (even in the prophecy)||

[inland hare]

It will be sans’ shop clearly

Whaaaaaaaa

[low surge]

|| Friend does have pink and gold eyes… ||

[timber widget]

I have the distinct feeling there's an egg in this image, but I'm not quite sure

[low surge]

|| FRIEND I do think will show up but not the main boss ||

|| Chapter 5 is gonna be the family trauma chapter ||

[timber widget]

||Has friend not already shown up in the Eram fight||

[inland hare]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[low surge]

|| Showed up but not the focus, it’s been teased so much I think this chapter is where we’re finally gonna learn their deal ||

[dense cargo]

Huh, so that's why we haven't seen him yet

[ripe harbor]

with all the dialogue taken into account from the room + secret stuff, especially about how none of the pretender Mikes know who Spamton is or why + how some of the "Mike, could you do X" things happen, you basically got two options:

1. the 'Real Mic' is the 'real Mike', and it and Spamton formed an unbreakable bond (Tenna said Mike 'acted' different after Spamton left, so it was two way. Problematic Microphone Yaoi yearning.)

2. Whoever Spamton meant when he said 'Mike' left with him, and the pretenders stepped in afterwards.

I'd take either tbh. First ones a good joke, second implies someonething about whatever's going on with the phone.

with the big ??? still in place about the phone stuff underlined in Tenna's quest though, its still a big question

Something called him when he was about to sign a deal with Tenna - why? who?

[lusty cypress]

Maybe Mike "exists" as a concept you act out
Tenna talking to the mic as if it was a helper was Mike "existing"
People taking on the Mike persona is Mike "existing"

Imagine someone kept talking to a Reimu fumo, and later on three women cosplaying Reimu appeared

[ripe harbor]

but Darkners literally are the Reimu fumos

and some of them are even directly conceptual

idk

[lusty cypress]

That's the rub
There are inert objects in dark worlds

[ripe harbor]

Tenna doesn't strike me as skewed from reality enough to think there is a Mike and they acted different. Though it would be funny if thats just how he phrases 'things aren't the same since he left 🥹 sigh'

[lusty cypress]

You could play make believe with them

[ripe harbor]

perhaps Mike is just some sort of imaginary.... friend

[lusty cypress]

Fantasy within fantasy
Darkness within darkness awaits you

[ripe harbor]

I guess I'd say its harder to call Mike a specific "Spamton is crazy" delusion, because its at least shared with multiple other characters in context

I believe there is a 'Mike'. Idk if they'll ever be relevant again.

idk if they have anything to do with Phone Guy

[lusty cypress]

Maybe tenna and spamton invented Mike
And became obsessed with him out of loneliness

[ripe harbor]

who will probably be relevant again? but probably not in that context

[ripe harbor]

but he does do actions, and Tenna thinks he is a specific real person

[lusty cypress]

"If you are listening to this recording, you made some bad career choices"

[ripe harbor]

and if you say "well, maybe Tenna got the idea from Spamton" - it makes it sound like Mike is related to whoever was helping him from the shadows

I mean, does Spamton ever refer to whatever or whoever 'found him' in his dialogue?

its basically either the "Mike" mentions, or the "It" that pulls the strings / makes them ring / (might be) coming for him

[ripe harbor]

I suspect the Shelter itself will be 6, with 7 fufilling the legend

or going into some wildly unpredictable space

the Shelter's noise being the Garbage Noise / Entry 17 when sped up by 666% helps tie it to 6's and Gaster - whos got those 6's already elsewhere

plus 6 is when whatever Seam is working on with the Shadow Crystals will be complete

good time to start wrapping up or answering some big questions

[ripe harbor]

see honestly this was half my read in chapter 2, but all the Mike room stuff kinda doubled down on something being up with the basement face

I dont think Mike as a name will be relevant in future chapters

but its something that the guy who seemed to have the closest connection to the 'microphone' also has links to one or two characters who are listening in - Gaster and That Cat Thing

[crimson ocean]

based on the whole jealousy thing its probably asgore but, im crossing fingers for darkworld catti, i need witch catti wiith jockington staff

[lusty cypress]

Honestly asgore would never burn his field out of jealousy because his thing is preserving the flowers from when he proposed to toriel

[sour mesa]

real

[lusty cypress]

It's someone else who burns

[ripe harbor]

I heard a theory going around that the list of names the intro sequence reacts to are going to be the Lightners who we see in Dark Worlds

I could see it? It hasn't been wrong yet ig

and theres not really a strong tie for each of these characters otherwise, its kinda scattershot

if QC ever shows up in a dark world I'll immediately become a diehard convert

[sharp lodge]

who's qc again?

[vocal elbow]

The bunny lady running the Diner

[ripe harbor]

its definitely a standoint in the list, considering characters like Mettaton or Napstablook get no response. Shes not a super important Undertale character, and shes completely optional in DR.

[dense cargo]

If thtat's true, it's interesting that there's Rudy but no Carol

[ripe harbor]

Rudy's actually had his name revealed for a bit before chapter 1 even dropped, Carol we only learned the name of Chapter 4

for Undertale's 2nd anniversary some of the Alarm Clock dialogues were shown, and the Asgore / Rudy one is basically unchanged from the 5th anniversary polished version

honestly the most interesting thing about these two

is that the 2017 version talks about Rudy, his daughter and his wife, while the 2020 version mentions Rudy and his daughter s, plural. Special emphasis on his youngest.

no way the Holidays were rewritten that much between the two, so maybe originally Dess was going to conspiciously absent in UT, too. Or her existence would've been kept secret until the later DR chapters come out.

[inland hare]

I can’t believe Asgore died from jumping into an active volcano

[ripe harbor]

tropical island dark world because his flower shop is right next to the lake

onion-sans corpse as a secret boss

[restive comet]

Okay, I can't find it anywhere online, but any of you have that post of Noelle going "waoh" at Susie yawning?

[sharp lodge]

https://bsky.app/profile/ditzyflama.com/post/3ltfllvuep22y

ditzy. (@ditzyflama.com)

Reposts

569

Likes

1176

Bluesky · Jul 7, 2025, 8:07 PM

[delicate cave]

oh, yeah, I know the one

unfortunately the person I think I saw reblog it doesn't tag for deltarune, so I'm just paging through their whole dang blog

there we go. like eight pictures https://www.tumblr.com/slugg-it-out/786485581834338304?source=share

[lusty cypress]

C4 Kris is doing their job. Not as best as they can. But they're doing
||https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rvSHRqJChV8||

God I hope we get more moments with these sorts of shenanigans

[sharp lodge]

hey ue

no idea if it's important or not for ||dess knight theory|| but if you try to equip the puppet scarf to noelle she says it feels like guitar strings

[hidden pivot]

obviously its hereldic /s

[low surge]

From @ROAD_ KILLIAN__ on twitter

[amber jolt]

DK is short for Dark Knight

don'tcha know?

[ripe harbor]

piles of chunky's dust

[low surge]

And then there’s chunky

He’s dead

[wheat adder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1luj4wz/comic_inspired_by_chapter_4/

[lethal ferry]

yeah i'll accept this as canon

[lusty cypress]

Looking at the comments
Were there people who actually thought Carol was homophobic?

[lethal ferry]

i thought it was primarily a humorous interpretation of the scene

[delicate cave]

They might also be jumping to it because she's a controlling, religious-seeming millionaire, which would all correlate with conservative views

[lethal ferry]

yeah

personally i just think she hates poor people

[lusty cypress]

I think she specifically dislikes Susie for being a delinquent

It's a classic plot
Proper and repressed girl with bad boy
But yurified

It's like how people assumed Berdly was a reactionary

[foggy python]

||Will also say it's implied she knows about the prophecy and has a plan for the SOUL. She could also dislike Susie on the basis of her having a chance to subvert the prophecy||

but also yeah very little people like Susie in the light world, wouldn't expect the mayor to

[wheat adder]

Yeah it's giving the same sort of meme vibes as Toriel is homophobic

[sharp lodge]

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1luii7q

[lusty cypress]

That exists?

[wheat adder]

Yup, from the Undertale true pacifist ending
I think it's mostly a meme tho

Also I just kinda wanna say that the more we learn of Kris and their family life and past the more I relate to them

Toby Fox definitely knows about young children in broken families huh

[lusty cypress]

||https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1luii7q/comment/n1z2yha/||

[foggy python]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmX29iZPX0A||

[tropic valve]

Chapter 4 has rotted my entire brain

Not a single day goes by since I've played it where somewhere in the back of my head I hear

YOUR TAKING TOO LONG

[lusty cypress]

11dragonkid used chapter 4 ost in his fabula ultima video

[inland hare]

A lot of YouTubers still use undertale ost because it’s like

Good music

That’s drm free

[low surge]

Actually real

[low surge]

Shit I’d buy it

Could patch some holes in DessKnight

|| Even if I’m really not a huge fan of her being dead ||

|| I also like the first comment, Kris definitely strikes me as an incredibly talented kid who either doesn’t seek recognition or for some reason somehow everyone manages to just be too focused on Asriel ||

|| Like everyone focuses on the weirdo part, which is 100% true in fairness Kris is a strange kid. But like it’s pretty clear that they’ve got incredible skill in playing piano at the absolute least. ||

[analog burrow]

btw who else here saw that D is from ||Raise Up Your Bat||

[lunar saffron]

||she's probably not DEAD dead...||

[analog burrow]

||She’s lost…|| 🤔

[inland hare]

I think she’s ||lost… in HELL!!!!||

[analog burrow]

||When Darkners are LOST through violence, they’re left behind instead of being taken to castle town. Might mean something, might not.||

[tropic valve]

I like the idea that the Knight is ||The original body that the SOUL belonged to. That Kris might be something made to hold said SOUL in absence of its body.||

[strange cloud]

Yah, the stuff Asriel has that Kris doesn’t is awards, so whatever skills Kris has in music, they never actually did it openly enough to be recognized by hometown for it

[low surge]

|| Yeah, I figured that if she’s not “alive” then she’s some special third thing. I’m just not a huge fan of her having died but I’m open to that changing. Clearly she’s got to be a little juiced seeing as she can sprint while carrying a struggling Undyne no issue ||

[analog burrow]

what 10 years in the dark world does to mf
(probably less than 10 years actually)

[low surge]

Which I love, gives Kris a lot more personality and makes their loss of these interests hit so much harder

[tropic valve]

I also think, following what I said above, that if that is true, ||Asgore has something to do with why the soul/body are split. Because that would require a lot of strength and if we assume characters are roughly as strong as their Undertale counterparts, Asgore is the strongest MF in town besides Sans. so separating a body from their SOUL would require that kind of strength. And it would absolutely be the kind of thing that gets you ostracized and also divorced.||

It's making some assumptions but I don't think it's impossible.

That's my crackpot theory. Otherwise, I just think the Knight is ||Carol.||

[inland hare]

Separating the body from the soul is actually very easy

[low surge]

|| I guess my main two issues with that is 1) Asgore hated doing that to humans he didn’t even know, would he be able to do that to his own child? 2) would imply the rest of the town/Toriel at minimum knew, which you’d think there’d be more evidence for ||

[inland hare]

You just need a gun

[tropic valve]

Well, it may have looked like something else to the rest of the town, or it may have happened in a Dark World, etc

[strange cloud]

Yah, I really can’t imagine ||Asgore willingly put Kris in any harms way. Asgore’s main character traits are: he loves his family, and he hates violence, even when he thinks it’s justified. It just contradicts everything we know about his character, and we also know that asgore isn’t the type to make “the hard choices.” His choice to declare war on humans was a cowardly one, to stave off his emotions and hope to the Angel no human would ever fall down||

[analog burrow]

Honestly that one “tunnel built with mayor money” pic is what turned me off of ||Carol Knight|| of all things

[tropic valve]

I think there's ways that it works, but it's far-fetched, I know

[low surge]

Which one?

[strange cloud]

Mayor money is awesome

[analog burrow]

#1159883117448929316 message

this one

[strange cloud]

But also genuinely it is the best evidence against Carol knight

She cannot be both at her house punishing Noelle and at the church knighting it up

It maybe makes sense if you explore all of hometown before going to the church, but if you go straight there there is legitimately no time inbetween

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/929549906295816212/1390780343598055635/carolknight.gif

It’s also really funny

[wheat adder]

We know it's been probably less than 7 years
We know this because the how to draw dragons book was taken out of the library around 7 years ago

[inland hare]

Maybe she can just teleport between closet doors

[low surge]

Canon

[sour mesa]

she goes really really fast with the tunnel built with her mayor money

[analog burrow]

Unless the Knight is her stand or something, but there’s no evidence + Occam’s razor and all that

[low surge]

Good point actually

[analog burrow]

oooh nice catch

[low surge]

Isn’t the dragon book brought up in || Dess’ room though? ||

I’ve wondered roughly how old the main cast (Kris Azzy Dess and Noelle) were at the time of Dess’ disappearance

I was figuring it probably happened like 7-9ish years ago? Mostly because I (headcanon really) that the FUN Gang is roughly in the 14-16 range

[analog burrow]

if I had to guess it’d probably be however old Kris and Noelle are now

[strange cloud]

I think it was earlier personally, Azzy checked out the how to draw dragons book 7 years ago yah, but he could have just forgotten to return it and then never did out of guilt

He seems like the type

[strange cloud]

Also yah same

[low surge]

But a lot of the stuff in || Dess’ room seems to imply she was on the older end of the teenage spectrum, or maybe that’s just my assumption. I mean I was paintballing by 13 too ||

[strange cloud]

So like, whenever Dess and Azzy were 16

[low surge]

Which makes sense to me

[strange cloud]

I mean think that’s the assumption, she was big into contact sports, she smoked weed, she broke every instrument ever given to her besides 1

She definitely reads to me as like an older teenager before she disappeared

And personally it just works thematically

Kris being wrapped up in her again now that they’re the same age

[low surge]

Guess that means Azzy either didn’t go to college till late or he just hasn’t been home for a while because if it was that long bro would be roughly 23? And for most people that’s not far from graduation

I mean it all works you’re probably not supposed to think about time stuff too hard but yea

[strange cloud]

Yah that’s why I think it must’ve happened earlier

Like, I think it was around 4-5 years ago

7 means that Azzy is like, 25 and still in college

Hell still in his first year of college

[low surge]

Bro is NEVER getting his degree

Gifted kid to burnout pipeline exists in Deltarune

[strange cloud]

Which like obviously happens but azzy’s story makes way more sense to me if he left for college as soon as possible

[low surge]

But yeah, that makes more sense logically

I guess the spellingbee scene throws me off since it makes Noelle seem a lot younger? But then again shes old enough to post on the internet and it’s only got a few grammatical and spelling mistakes, and Dess is still around by that point

[inland hare]

I think azzy will perish

Only reason why he’s still alive is because he hasn’t died yet

[low surge]

True

As we all know people die when they are killed

[inland hare]

Indeed

[low surge]

I am Asriel’s Ashes Number One Hater though

[strange cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-undertale-asriel-gif-13926646602041095913

[inland hare]

I will show you fear

In a handful of dust

[strange cloud]

Also

No matter what we think of Azzy and Dess

It’s insane she has his retainer in her room

[sour mesa]

and his shirt in her closet

[strange cloud]

Yah seriously

Dessriel

Real

[sour mesa]

yeah

[inland hare]

And then to forget his sorrows

[lusty cypress]

Is it? Is it uncommon to share clothes with long time friends?

[inland hare]

He flirted with all the girls in hometown

I don’t think you share retainers

He probably just took it off while there and forgot to retrieve it

He forgets a lot of things

Lot of things

[lusty cypress]

Okay, what is specifically a retainer as object rather than person?

[lusty cypress]

Oh thought it was a jacket

[low surge]

Yeah the retainer part is probably that unless they’re both weirdos

[strange cloud]

Azzy and Susie just have an aura that makes their entire grade have a crush on them

[low surge]

But I absolutely 100% support Dessriel

[inland hare]

If he took it off while in her bedroom it could mean he was making out with her or could mean he ate something while in her room

Who knows really

Maybe there is a patch of moss there

[low surge]

A long Dreemur history of eating moss

[inland hare]

Which is hilarious given how terrible azzy’s love letter is

Goats do graze

[wheat adder]

Obviously monsters are attracted to the extremely unaware

[ashen tide]

https://youtu.be/o_3hG901mqU?si=40mDN2_7OL9-IpOV

[strange cloud]

Boobie

[crystal shale]

Boble

[ripe harbor]

she uses her 『Forbidden Hometown Art: Holiday Ninja Technique』to arrive without delay

[delicate cave]

||Thatcher|| jumpscare

[fluid path]

holy shit

[restive comet]

https://youtu.be/GL8ZmqyNiZM?si=NX5F5bAux-E0mjHz

[wheat adder]

This is the most revolting thing I've seen all year.

[restive comet]

Good

[wheat adder]

||Carol doesn't deserve to be Thatcher-fied, no one deserves it.||

[ashen tide]

https://www.tumblr.com/monkeyislandtwo/787831829609742336?source=share

you can't be serious

[strange cloud]

They couldn’t use this sprite because it gives him to much of an ass

[wheat adder]

It's from all that roux he eats

[low surge]

I subscribe fully to Rouxls Is Hot But Nobody Likes Him mans would have a perfect ass, built like a statue sculpted by Michelangelo but unfortunately it’s also Rouxls and therefore unbearable

[restive comet]

True

Also needs a restraining order in Ch4

[low surge]

Tony Focks in the lab engineering a genetically perfect tumblr sexyman only to make him The Worst Guy Ever Made

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-chemistry-experiment-scientific-walter-white-gif-17820266

[wheat adder]

I wonder if Friend will finally be the secret boss of chapter 5
||My reasoning for this is its cheshire cat vibes and the prophecy wall talking about the flower man being trapped in "asylum"
Just because, yknow, all the characters in Alice in Wonderland are crazy.||

[gilded canopy]

Okay, but did she actually smoke weed, I thought that was people memeing about the tin of unique leaves.

Like, having a tin to store cool looking leaves sounds like something I'd do.

I don't think marijuana leaves really deviate all from each other

Like it's funny and it fits pretty well with what we know of Dess but like

Teenagers can make mementos out of things like leaves.

[low surge]

|| I’m assuming FRIEND is going to at least make a more direct appearance. They’ve been teased across 3 chapters and a special event so far. With chapter 5 being in Flower King and the likely focus on the wider conspiracy (which FRIEND is implied to be involved in) I think at the very least we’ll get a proper name for it. ||

[ripe harbor]

real and textually true

I think its funny that one of the first lines Tenna says when fully off air is commenting on his coworkers ass size. He really is a TV host.

[lusty cypress]

He also got in a controversy due to his secret interest in pipis

[ripe harbor]

Another celebrity lost to scandal and Pipis addiction.... sad to see

[south flume]

https://youtu.be/aI1T88vyxSI?si=KTP5F2W0LK2mtO6Y

[vocal elbow]

You know, if/when there's a dark world in Asgore's shop do you think ||one of the darkners will more or less be Flowey?||

[wheat adder]

I honestly wasn't expecting Chapter 3&4 brain rot to be comprised of memes of asgore driving over a kid

[crimson ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/853014977698856990/1392104136908079179/deltarune-tenna.gif

[ripe harbor]

it was a long and winding road to get here, yeah

yet we truck on

[low surge]

From @CaptainClaood on twitter

I really hope FRIEND is it’s actual name

[wheat adder]

Dunno if it's been pointed out here yet but The Door shares a leitmotif with Chase and Black Knife

[ripe harbor]

all of them got a very similar (or the exact same?) melody to his old fan-song for Cucumber quest, Nightmare Knight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t43ZIrsfof0

right there at 48 seconds

[lusty cypress]

I do wonder if the weird route will have consequences like genocide

Like, on further playthroughs

[vocal elbow]

Oh like a Soulless Pacifist sort of thing?

[ripe harbor]

I still think its how Black Knife doesn't seem to contain the exact quote shared by Lost Girl, Girl Next Door, Raise Your Bat and the start of the 'Freedom' motif

its like the two places it crops up are Noelle / December related, or Secret Boss related. And it's not there for the Roaring Knight.

[lusty cypress]

Yeah

[crimson ocean]

Black knife at 1:17 ish is sorta similar

It's a variation but

[ripe harbor]

that you need a squint a bit more, and idk music enough to tell if its the actual quote or not, is kinda the notable part

its all these much more perfect quotes, except for the one you might expect the most

[crimson ocean]

The fact that gaster shit is only 4 notes barely even in a key makes this audiopareidolia even worse

[ripe harbor]

I dont even try to look for 'gaster' themes tbh. Honestly most of these I'm pretty bad at spotting.

[lusty cypress]

Wonder why Noelle is so important

[ripe harbor]

idk. Shes got a lot of angel symbolism around her, her sister missing seems to be the core of the story, and shes often lumped in with the 3 main heroes and might even be one?

probably doomed

She hasn't earned her 'as important as susie and ralsei and kris' spot yet

which means shes probably going to get involved in some Big Deal stuff in the next couple chapters

[lusty cypress]

Plus, I'm wondering if the prophecy involves manipulating her, playing into Kris' guilt

[gilded canopy]

IIRC, isn't it just backwards?

[ripe harbor]

idk

I'm not good with music that way

I'd believe it could be all twisted up

[crimson ocean]

Shes also a girl who is incredibly good at breaking games who lives inside a game

[ripe harbor]

but its kind of standout that it is so twisted there, if its 'really' a Dess Holiday / Secret Boss related riff

[vocal elbow]

I do wonder what kind of long term consequence there could be if Berdly gets his wing burned in Act 2. So far it doesn't seem to matter aside from him being in the hospital for Ch.4.

[ripe harbor]

treated as uniquely strong in both the weird route and normal route (by Queen). Shes got some hidden power

[ripe harbor]

(which could obviously be a sort of play on the Knight being twisted up, if its some corrupted Dess-thing. But it'd be kinda funny for Jevil to have a clearer nod towards that theme.)

[tidal fox]

IIRC his arm is paralysed in the light world?
Don't know if that clears up in later chapters

[ripe harbor]

He'll get 3 stocked by Jockington at the Festival, locking you out of the good ending forever

[lusty cypress]

From this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LSukoKLao8

[crimson ocean]

I need more dark world noelle or I'm gonna freak

I hope the bird shows up too

[lusty cypress]

Actually, I remembered something
Someone did a jerk pacifist playthrough in undertale, so I wonder about doing a jerk pacifist playthrough in deltarune
If Kris would have a different reaction in later chapters

[low surge]

Jockington Stroke Theory

Really what the fuck is going on with his dialogue though

[lusty cypress]

Deltarune Weird route playthrough in which you name yourself Sukuna

[low surge]

Naming my son Gaster and suddenly waking up 10 years earlier

[strange cloud]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/0dGOEI3sHj

[low surge]

|| I can kind of buy this, or at least there’s something going on with the potential second soul. Either way “she was used up” ||

[inland hare]

||we are definitely gonna control Noelle again in the weird route, I feel||

[low surge]

God this shit gonna be so gross man

[inland hare]

conceptually the Soul is a terrifying entity in the context of deltarune

a possibly demonic entity that can take control

[sharp lodge]

https://old.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1lulpsi/really_tiny_dark_fountain/

[amber jolt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvJLyvrNthg

algorithm equivalent of finding a dark world in my own bathroom

[low surge]

Toby please make a Chester reference it would be very funny

[low surge]

Thank you for posting this

[wheat adder]

https://youtu.be/77YIJJGLwbg?si=-obNeX72tP9rqGxV

[timber widget]

https://bsky.app/profile/rouughnix.bsky.social/post/3ltcovdtxos2m

ว๊ายๆ (@rouughnix.bsky.social)

susie's idea
#deltarune

Reposts

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2821

Bluesky · Jul 6, 2025, 4:28 PM

[wheat adder]

https://youtu.be/IE58Hc1PwAw?si=mBVkFd_nV43yxB90

[tropic valve]

was Tenna teased before the actual release of Chapter 3?

I'm watching reactions to Tenna's introduction and people are like

"OH MY GOD IT'S HIM"

[delicate cave]

Someone said the borders for chapter 3 leaked early and he was on one of them

[tropic valve]

Ahh

[inland hare]

Yes multiple times

In chapter 2, even

[dense cargo]

Think his name was revealed in the Sweepstakes

[inland hare]

Ah right

[low surge]

Yeah, before that everyone was convinced the TV was Mike

It’s funny in retrospect how people expected “Mike” (Tenna) to be some malicious fearsome presence and he’s just a big goober, that smile at the end of chapter 2 was 100% genuine

[foggy python]

ways to signify someone is wicked evil in the modern day: :)

[low surge]

😁 <- face of a deranged turbo murderer

I mean I kinda get it big creepy smile is an easy signifier of malicious intent, it’s just funny how far off a lot of people were about Tenna

Game show host was an easy call, I don’t recall anyone catching the “unused and wanting attention again” thing but I fell off the bandwagon like 2 years in, got back for the Sweepstakes, and fell off again.

[strange cloud]

I mean to be fair, the other big smile in UTDR was Flowey

I don’t think it’s an unfair assumption to think that would have a similar vibe

[low surge]

Yeah true

[amber jolt]

tbf the third big smile in UTDR (sans... sans.) is the friend

and we don't know what the FUCK is up with it

what the hell are you

what is your deal

[strange cloud]

I don’t know what they are but I know that’s no friend of mine

[lusty cypress]

Hey, can someone post my stuff to the deltarune subreddit? Seems you need 4000 post karma to submit anything there

[wheat adder]

It's the friend inside all of us

[inland hare]

Just post to the undertale subreddit

It’s the deltarune subreddit for the poor

[lusty cypress]

Haha

God the submission requiriment is so dumb

post on undertale and also on tumblr.

[analog burrow]

||FRIEND/Nightmare/Pointed Tail|| do be ominous

[golden haven]

The hell is running the dr subreddit, mayor holiday??

[sour mesa]

her Moderator Money

[lusty cypress]

No wonder the subreddit seemed off

[strange cloud]

Deltarune fans be like: “Obviously it’s the case that” most insane stretch you’ve ever heard

[wheat adder]

It is a bit maddening that we're going back to "Kris is extremely evil" era

[fluid path]

my evil secret tip: ||you can stop reading the discourse when it's bad||

[low surge]

Truth

[analog burrow]

Am I insane or do the ||Gaster Blasters look like FRIEND||

Just some random thing I noticed while watchin youtube

[sour mesa]

The eyes are round but not the same shape
They're bith smiling but they're not irregular in the same ways

Gaster Blaster's is symmetrical

[analog burrow]

though the grin does go past the eyes like in game, which is what jumped out to me in the first place

certainly no conclusions that can be drawn yet if there is some connection but eh, I thought it was worth pointing out.

[fluid path]

#1159883117448929316 message

[analog burrow]

[analog burrow]

Chapter 0 leak

[lusty cypress]

Yeah I just try to avoid deltarune people online

[timber widget]

"Now who's the possessing demon"

And the game turns into a single cutscene as Kris just walls you around

[ripe harbor]

true!

[low surge]

people were giving the person that made Chester Holiday shit for some reason

[low surge]

Real tho

I basically live by this image now

[ripe harbor]

if whatever ends up happening to Dess did involve a cryptid in the woods, and all those Ice-E posts during the sweepstakes were foreshadowing for it...

I'd have to give the Ice-E theorizers credit

I wasn't aware of their game

[lusty cypress]

Well, it's likely noelle has snow and snow related trauma regarding dess

[low surge]

IceE Heads will be vindicated

[ripe harbor]

the spooky pizza box Noelle thought 'winked' at her in the dark, and they burned out its eyes.... the song that plays when you fight Eram / Nightmare as 'Burning Eyes', the 'Nightmare ICE-E' fun event in Undertale...

[low surge]

Saving that one too

[ripe harbor]

I had a funnier one that was bitcrushed and had the spooky jumpscare eyes but I misplaced it :V

speaking of weird stuff

any interpretations for that conch shell you can find on Tenna's board?

[low surge]

Connected to the depths I’m guessing?

[sharp lodge]

https://old.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1lv94ny/who_deltarune_theorists_point_to_whenever/?ref=share&ref_source=link

it could be about spamton

[ripe harbor]

could be about him, could be about tenna / both at the same time - mentions the ocean and glass

even if its not really hinting at anything larger it goes pretty hard

[sinful crag]

coworkers and i came up w/ a new silly theory that Ch 5 will just continue the exact moment Ch 4 leftoff because the final song used was titled Neverending Night

[low surge]

You think that the festival is gonna be what’s behind the police tape? Not sure where they’re gonna fit a Ferris wheel in town

[sharp lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Xz9P3MKTLzs

[lusty cypress]

Canon

[inland hare]

Goats do graze

Do you think that’s why they are so good at grazing bullets

[lusty cypress]

Goat team, ready to graze

Darkness containment breach spotted

[low surge]

You ever think Toriel got in trouble for getting trashed and eating peoples lawns

[ripe harbor]

...hmmm. Realizing that almost all of noelle's spooky game incident blog posts relate to places, phrases, and things around

• "Scared of the plugs smiling at me"
• the catpetters minigame secret cat
• Burning a pizza boxes eyes because she thought it winked at her, Spamton's dialogue about his eyes burning directly relating to his mysterious benefactor, whatever the fuck is happening with Nightmare / Eram
• Glaceir Ice Palace quest

thats not even getting into the weird 'special' egg a lot of people connect to Friend anyway, thats just taking the places you see that face directly in chapters 2 + 3

at these plugs after that vending machine

[ripe harbor]

getting more info about this thing isn't even in the top 4 things I'm most excited about next chapter. But I will Yiik out at my screen if I see its horrible face.

[sour mesa]

lol

[analog burrow]

Turns out the friends was outside us all along

[analog burrow]

Honestly I’m just gonna call it now and say IMAGE_FRIEND and Nightmare are one and the same

The smile disappears from the vending machine after you get the mantle, and having four hidden spooky mystery guys just seems like one too many

[fluid path]

Jevil, Spamton, Friend, Mike?

[analog burrow]

Gaster/John Gonermaker, Friend, and the forgotten man are the big 3

Assuming friend and nightmare are the same like I said

[fluid path]

what is the forgotten man

[analog burrow]

The man behind the tree

[sour mesa]

(most likely also Gaster imo)

[analog burrow]

Yeah, could end up being trimmed down to 2, though I think it’s a little more up in the air with them

[fluid path]

those are all the same person

[analog burrow]

Oh yeah I just remembered the whole completed without issue thing + the man only being able to speak on the Island according to him

[low surge]

FRIEND I think is separate from John Mantel/ERAM/Nightmare personally, but I ain’t got much proof

[analog burrow]

Basically the devil is inside Noelle’s haunted creepypasta copy of Cat Petterz she torrented

[low surge]

Watch FRIEND be totally innocent just a silly little cat

Nah but fr it’s probably satan

[ripe harbor]

technically Unused / whoever pushes your hand back is another

and both or either might be Dess. Who might (probably) also be the Knight

I could see Friend / Nightmare being the secret-boss related one though, since it shows up mostly during 2 + 3's secrets

and theres still not a strong answer for who the 'strange someone' who talked to Jevil is

[analog burrow]

I’m realizing the potential for the narrative to turn into like
puppets of puppets of puppets

especially with the themes of fate and determinism inherent to the prophecy

and the nature of Kris and the players relationship

idk I’m just ramblin before bed

Thank you toby fox for this wonderful story that also drives me nuts

[ripe harbor]

I think the forgotten man is gonna be mostly not-relevant to the overall story

maybe more personally important to Kris and whatever they got going on

while the other two are probably going to have some payoffs

both are parts of unskippable story cutscenes, and appear more often when you go digging for them

kinda hard to predict what that might look like though

I don't really think a Gaster fight is going to ever happen? But I could see fighting that cat.

[strange cloud]

Also shit Scout I didn’t realize you joined the lore pit until I looked at your profile

[strange cloud]

I noticed the green pippins react on this message

[low surge]

There’s a lore pit?

[analog burrow]

Honestly I think it would be neat if they never even name drop Gaster in Deltarune. It’s only ever “Him” or some form of title

[strange cloud]

The Deltarune channel of Andrew Cunningham’s discord server

[strange cloud]

Honestly I think they’re going to because it’d make me jump out of my seat and point at the screen

[analog burrow]

There’s power in names after all, and a name that cannot be inscribed says a lot

[low surge]

I would in fact become the soyjak it Gaster showed up directly

[strange cloud]

Exactly

[low surge]

Like I already jumped out of my seat when the knight showed up if that Wing Dingdong so much as drifted across the screen I’d be popping the most expensive bottle of champagne I could get

[strange cloud]

Genuinely

I’m very susceptible to hype moments and aura

And Gaster showing up in game would be perhaps the hypest I’d ever be for a character reveal

Like, I’ve been wanting to see Gaster in the game proper since undertale

When I was 11

I’m 21 now

Genuinely at this point more then half of my life has been spent being excited at the prospects of a Gaster appearance

[ripe harbor]

it was kinda on accident I just wanted to give money to the patreon and it auto added me 💀

well, whatever go my

I was re-listening to his stuff right before I played 3+4, one of the better content creators in UTDR imo

[fluid path]

utdr kid...

https://fxbsky.app/profile/t0byinthesky.bsky.social/post/3ltkhxiur5s2u

T0by | C0mmissions Open (@t0byinthesky.bsky.social)

The [ big shots ]

**🔁 75 ❤️ 300 **

FxBluesky · Jul 9, 2025, 6:45 PM

[low surge]

I love toxic old man yaoi (spamtenna)

[ripe harbor]

every time an artist parallels ||their deaths|| I want to start pacing like a dog. makes me SICK its so fucked up (complimentary)

[low surge]

Absolutely

[low surge]

Can Darkeners actually die? Closest we’ve gotten is || Tenna || but they’re fine. I know people talk about || Jackenstein if you don’t recruit everyone but I haven’t seen that scene since I always do all recruits. Like are they actually really dead or is it left in implication? ||

[vocal elbow]

||Tenna doesn't look all that fine if you don't recruit everyone. Suzie is never able to find him and back in the Light World their screen is smashed.||

[low surge]

|| Ah, I guess that makes sense since she did say the other darkeners helped repair him. Guess you miss some important stuff if you do all recruits always. ||

[strange cloud]

Oh yah ||Jack dies in that scene. He falls into the abyss after throwing the fun gang upwards. We can’t see him in the light world again obviously but presumably yah he’s just broken beyond repair then||

[timber widget]

(Weird) ||Prior to a patch, you could abort a weird run on Berdly and use Snowgrave on a maus in the next room||

(Not weird) ||Also, apparently defeating titanspawn with violence (just with the black shard?) uses the same animation. Whether they're "darkners" remains to be seen||

[inland hare]

I will become the strongest

[restive comet]

||Wait, he dies??? On my run he gets caught and saved by everyone else we recruited from The Sanctuary||

[strange cloud]

Yah if you don’t recruit anyone

[restive comet]

||Jfc, poor Jack...||

[lusty cypress]

The requirement isn't recruitment everyone

[sharp lodge]

weird similarity between ||dess's closet and papyrus's room|| probably nothing but it's kinda interesting

[fluid path]

its true... they are both ||teenagers||

[inland hare]

But are they both cops

Imagine if dess wasn’t actually a rebel

But had a personality like papyrus

[lusty cypress]

I like the idea Dess is emulating how her mom was like in her wilder years

[dense cargo]

||I can't believe Noelle was Sans the whole time.||

[inland hare]

But soon

We will be able to purify this world of deltarune

[ripe harbor]

weird route spamton loses out on the Tenna interaction while violent route does (so its not just a Puppetscarf thing)

so prooooobably?

and you straight up obliterate whatever the Titan is

[inland hare]

Are titan spawn sentient

Do they fear death

[sour mesa]

"When did you start being yourself?"

[inland hare]

Purification en cours

[dense cargo]

||Well, much like the Titans they spawn from, they don't understand mercy, and Ralsei says Titans have no consciousness.||

[ripe harbor]

I'm saving space for "The Angel is going to be a titan given will" as a crack theory until next chapter

who's will? idk. plug in whatever character you think has the most angel symbolism rn.

[lusty cypress]

Berdly

[sharp lodge]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtuDEM3Cqm0||

ytpmv of the chapter 3 boss

[low surge]

Forgotten Man Is Grandpa Semi

No I have no proof

[low surge]

Canonical

[river moss]

loud, video credit @moondrahh on twitter

[rose swallow]

so potentially dumb question

do Darkners have consciousness outside of dark worlds?

i know the game very clearly tells you no

but spamton and tenna clearly have history with each other

and i don't get how that can be if they only became sentient a few hours ago, and spamton references tenna before he even exists

[low surge]

Same deal with King and Queen

It’s weird, it seems that some level of interaction between real world items causes there to be history between them?

How the past in dark worlds works is very weird and I don’t fully understand it

[ripe harbor]

I just shovel it under 'mirror world' & 'I guess we doin' animism now' and then don't worry too much about it

in all cases they're interactable with its as if theres an entire parallel sort of world going on, and the histories they have are weird and specific enough that it doesn't seem to just be based on the Lightner's thoughts (even if it ends up mirroring their issues back at them like Noelle to Queen or Tenna to the Dreemurr divorce)

its like its not real, but its not arbitrary?

[lusty cypress]

Or weird time/retroactivity shit

[ripe harbor]

even then its unclear with how both Queen and King are described as acting specific ways before the Fountain appeared and 'gave them form'

this could just be retrocausal memories but I dont really see much difference between that and non-interactable 'unreal' dark worlds ticking along at the same rate tbh

it kind of ends up at the same place?

Does Tenna know about the old holiday celebrations because at the moment of the Dark Fountain's birth he retroactively had a backstory flood into his head, or did his light world counterpart pick up that stuff from being used as a TV and the dark world just brought it out?

it kinda evens out

[lusty cypress]

I generally assumed the histories as real, but weird with causality
Like with the sanctuaries

[inland hare]

I assume histories are fake but it might as well be real

[lusty cypress]

Queen appears in king's backstory, tenna in spamton's
But they started existing later, when their fountains are created

True/false as we usually use those words aren't quite enough for what's going on
The dark worlds are tangible dreams and fantasies

[ripe harbor]

I unironically kinda think this text from UT is pretty much how dark fountains work

yeah

they can be true or they can be fake, it depends on if you are in the Dark or Light worlds

and that kinda begs the question of what it means for something to be "Not real" but able to be real and vice versa, and idk

[lusty cypress]

The dark worlds are true but in the sense that a dream is built from our experiences
Ink spilled on reality

[ripe harbor]

and they have a sort of continuity, the same objects carried to different Dark Worlds makes the same Darkner, with the same experiences and memories

so it is like taking a piece of the 'dream' and giving it its own life

[lusty cypress]

Plus there are paths between dark worlds
The gate in chapter 1
Ralsei traveling around

[ripe harbor]

also this is definitely what the dialogue between noelle and susie about how annoying Catti is for trying to 'solve' fictions magic systems was about.

[lusty cypress]

Oh they talk zbout that?

[ripe harbor]

they also have a two way relationship, even if so far the Light World seems more impactful

yeah lmao

[ripe harbor]

like the church is trashed after the ||Titan fight||

[lusty cypress]

Tenna too

[ripe harbor]

each chapter has actually gotten more and more light world changes from the dark world adventures

[lusty cypress]

||He shows damage from what happened||

[ripe harbor]

chapter 1 it was like you just dreamed it, chapter 2 has some hints with some computers being crashed / berdly's arm, depending on what you do

[ripe harbor]

chapter 3, yeah

||He can literally break||

its been scaling up

[lusty cypress]

Plus I am certain light and dark have a weird relationship with time that must play in how the prophecy works

[ripe harbor]

theres also whatever weirdness is happening with the 'strange someone'||s||

agents who may exist outside the usual dark fountain stuff thats been shown, who have interactions and changing relationships(?) with normal Darkners

what would it mean for the Spamton / Tenna strange phone call to have not been real, and only added retroactively? 🤷

whether or or whatever, it seems to have been a character not from that (or any?) Dark World specifically.

but who is doing stuff ascribed by Darkners as in reaction to Dark World only events, while a dark fountain isn't flowing. Idk I just roll with it.

[analog burrow]

https://youtu.be/gidjPqFOEgM?si=PUDwEdAzEIargYl1

[ripe harbor]

||You actually automatically get Hate Wins already on weird route 😔||

[lusty cypress]

With the power of a dark fountain, I can rewrite the past to say I did my responsibilities on time

[inland hare]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/lobotomycorp/images/e/ed/Queen_of_Hatred_Crop.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width/360?cb=20200602123018

Did someone say hate

[golden haven]

Brb gonna stab my living room carpet to redo my job application

[golden haven]

Not until a week youre not

[analog burrow]

Regarding the darkners with a history behind them, Isn’t there dialogue referencing Kris bringing over assorted items to the dreemurr house to play with?

I think it was a Ramb thing

This damn power strip

[ripe harbor]

ya

so its like the Darkners act like and have relationships related to their Light World counterparts in ways that are consistent and shared between even Dark Worlds that were never open at the same time, so-
its pretty much functionally like a mirror world

whats the term ralsei uses? an 'alternate lens'?

[analog burrow]

Kris was probably just talking to a television in between chapter 1 and 2

to establish their deal

[low surge]

I know that save points were added to the light world per player feedback but I definitely thought between that and the growing impact of dark world events on the light that maybe the two worlds are beginning to meld a bit as the balance between dark and light is further thrown off

[analog burrow]

When is Toby gonna hit us with more ominous battle text

[fluid path]

probably in chapter 5

[analog burrow]

I am sick and I need * When did you start being yourself? to live

[low surge]

So any thoughts on what the fuck is up with Spamton and the Knight? Like I feel it’s fairly clear to say there’s some Gaster shit to how he ended up the way he is, but what’s the deal with when he tried to talk about the knight? Someone or something came in and was hurting him. Why would he know about the Knight? Unless it’s some Gaster and the Knight are co-conspirators or whatever.

|| But also if Kris is in league with the knight why prevent Spamton from saying anything while we’re is alone with him? ||

[analog burrow]

My working hypothesis has been that the Shadow Crystals give Darkners some kind of insight into the prophecy, if not revealing it entirely to them. This would likely include ||information about the Knight that Kris doesn’t want us privy to.||

[ripe harbor]

whatever it was about, it was going to be related to "Communion"

his previous line is talking about whoever, or whatever he met over phone

so maybe theres a connection between the knight and that?

I mean theres a lot of fanart about and Dess out there already, so this fits the popular read but who knows

could've just as easily been "Speaking of Communion the Knights gonna open 2 dark worlds at the church next"

most of his lines aren't actually too hard to understand but I got no idea for that one

besides "He can't talk about it"

[analog burrow]

Probably because Kris isn’t alone

Kris has shown they really don’t want us knowing things relating to the Knight

[low surge]

True, but I’m not sure Spamton knows that. He refers to the soul as being Kris’, so I don’t think he’s aware it’s something separate. And it doesn’t seem like Kris is the one doing whatever is hurting Spamton. So maybe it’s just the knight doing it? I don’t think Spamton was working with the Knight, between him seemingly trying to derail the whole plan and only finding the shadow crystal in the NEO body (which what the fuck is up with that)

[rose swallow]

also an EXTREMELY important easter egg plot point that has probably been brought up here but i only just learned: ||the video game vessel is destroyed the moment the SOUL loses connection to it||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJtM6AcvOTg

[ripe harbor]

(imo the crystals are related to cast-off dreams)

so the crystal was in the machine because Whoever-drew-it had a strong, never fufilled fantasy connected to it

probably Mettaton's ideal transition body or whatever

so it just kinda.... had a shadow crystal?

it could've also been placed there by someone in particular, but I think tying every Shadow Crystal to the Knight personally hits a snag with the timeline and how characters talk about them

and saying a Strange Someone handed out every crystal means they

• put it in a robot body for fun
• handed one to the Knight?

so I think they can just 'grow' from Lightners in general

[ripe harbor]

cause theres no way this isn't about Shadow Crystals, right

its like the clearest part of this weird hidden book from chapter 4

'bitter tears' turning into shadow crystals? Enough for me to take it as dreams given up on.

I think this also gives a good-enough reason for why they work, and what it would mean to purify them: They show you how things 'could be / could have been', and a purified crystal takes a bunch of dream fragments and turns it into a hopeful vision of the future or whatever

[low surge]

Could explain the weird shit you see through it in the light world

[ripe harbor]

yeah, I know them showing you 'truth' and 'lies' depending on which world you're in was popular back when chapter 2 first came out,

but I think its probably closer to showing you things that are 'differently true' regardless of light or dark world

rip

[low surge]

This prophecy is pissing me off

[low surge]

God I hope Gerson is right though

[wheat adder]

Crackpot theory; proof of my claims came to me in a dream:
||What if the knight isn't really anyone? What if it's just… a reflection of the back of Kris's mind, just straight up fear like Titans, but slightly different? When it hurts it goes all staticky like titans. And it being a reflection of Kris would explain all the pose matches.||

[low surge]

|| Only thing is how do you explain it kidnapping Undyne. Otherwise it’s interesting ||

[lethal ferry]

||I mean, it's possible? We can't be certain that we know everything there is to know about the Fountains. But it's much more likely that the knight is a person||

[tropic valve]

My theory about the Knight is that it's ||Kris's actual soul, either discarded or removed. Or the Soul's actual body, having left the soul aside. Either way, something fucky has gone on with this young child and I want some answers.||

[lethal ferry]

||I'm like. 95% committed to the Dess Knight theory||

[wheat adder]

Oh same but at the same time I think we're missing something idk
||I'm starting to believe it's not like just Dess. Something happened for her to be like that because I absolutely doubt that's just armour or a darkworld form. So I'm just trying to figure out what the heck happened for her to be like that. Or think of ways that could explain the Knight having antlers.||

[tropic valve]

||Carol seeking Dess is the other theory I'm in on, frankly. Or, if we want to be more grim about it, it's like the old man. Dess's corpse, revived via Dark World.

I'm also in the camp of "Asgore has SOMETHING to do with this" because by god that man had to do SOMETHING to make Toriel divorce him, and the rest of the town to dislike him, and to get kicked off of the police force.

So I'm thinking Asgore had to make a VERY DIFFICULT DECISION and is aware of the Dark Worlds. My mans, what did you do?||

[low surge]

|| He’s got to know something, but I’m certain he’s not fully in on the plan. I can’t imagine him even remotely being okay with what’s happening to Kris. He’s got to be in the dark in regard to their involvement. ||

I’m fairly set on Dess knight, possible variant being that Kris had to give her their soul for some reason.

Could explain why || the Knight was able to just scoop up Undyne, the lady who can bench a car for fun ||

Now why that would happen no clue

[dense cargo]

Hey so what, if anything, do we think the deal is with these things? They show up in one of the darkened areas of Chapter 4, where you can't see or interact with them.

[low surge]

Oh yeah I saw those the fucks going on there Tobias?

[dense cargo]

I think we have literally no information whatsoever about them. So either it's just meaningless detail, or it's another FRIEND-type situation.

[low surge]

I can’t imagine what object those would be

I wonder if it’s kind of like the || Titan spawn || that attack you in the dark rooms? Not something you’re supposed to really make heads or tails of besides creepy thing in the dark.

Maybe some sort of darker analogue to the weird wavy ball things that are in the barren parts of dark worlds?

[dense cargo]

||Maybe. Thinking on it, aren't there suspended wires on the ceiling of the Church' lobby?||

[velvet olive]

aw man.

we're gonna have to deal with fucking ||Darkness in combat|| again at some point 😔

good mechanic, cool mechanic, but aghhhh

[wheat adder]

I can't wait for chapter 5…

I must know what happens

Aaaaaaa

[lethal ferry]

deltarune in 5-17 months

[low surge]

Wonder when in 2026 it’ll be out

[lethal ferry]

i predict sometime between January and December

[low surge]

Possibly

Who can say

[wheat adder]

I'm guessing it'll be from June onwards

At least a full year+ after the 3&4 release

[lusty cypress]

Considering dark world affects the light world
Wonder if you can use dark worlds to transition

[wheat adder]

🤔

[lethal ferry]

would only work in the dark world though

[lusty cypress]

Oh, good find

[lusty cypress]

Could have some impact in the light world

[lethal ferry]

you transition in the dark world and walk out with fifteen bottles of whatever hormones you need

[lusty cypress]

Maybe to help dess survive wherever she ended up

[low surge]

FRIEND really fucked these kids up something fierce if Dess needed a human soul to survive

[sharp lodge]

||it can't be dess's corpse, she opened a fountain in chapter 4. being revived by a darkworld would make her a darkner, and only lightners can open fountains||

can monsters in deltarune even absorb a human soul? people assume a lot of things work the way they do in undertale, but i'm not so sure
for example, you can still find people talking about dt injections potentially being a thing despite the fact that lightner monsters can have determination too, and you level up whenever you close a dark world regardless of whether or not you kill darkners, so lvl being LOVE doesn't make much sense

[dense cargo]

I've seen people suggest that closing a fountain is, in a way, "killing" the Dark World, which is why it gives you a lvl. Don't think I quite believe it though.

Also yeah, nothing indicates monsters can absorb human souls in DR so far.

[low surge]

“Killing” the fountain definitely feels like a stretch to me

I might be misremembering but I’m fairly certain that LOVE is actually a separate state tracked in deltarune aside from lvl

[clear frost]

yup

[low surge]

Which I think you can’t even increase your LOVE either

[lusty cypress]

Well, we know Spamton wanted to take Kris' soul
And that soul is rather plug and play
We don't have confirmation a monster can take a human soul, but we've seen Kris soul situation is weird
And that the power of souls is also relevant in deltarune

[merry arrow]

||theres a scene when you're in the vents in ch4 where Asgore mentions having a black shard, and how hes "trying to make things right"||

[low surge]

|| Do we know if he’s referring to an actual shard in his possession, or the black katana that he’s standing right in front of? ||

[dense cargo]

||It would be weird to call a katana a "black shard"||

[merry arrow]

Just like everything else in the game, its unclear and that's why it's good

[strange cloud]

||the black shard is described as knife like for Kris and is a sword weapon for them, it could potentially take many forms depending what the knight wants||

[merry arrow]

||When the knight first shows up, their sword looks a bit like a bat before it turns into a sword||

[strange cloud]

I know, ||but the black shards are just shards of the knight’s sword, and that sword already transforms a ton, so the black shard probably can to||

[analog burrow]

||Also, the Light world description of the Shard describes it as glass. Not exactly prime Katana material||

[lethal ferry]

||its odd that the black shard and the eggs are the only items that have the same name in both the dark and light worlds||

||are there any implications to this? Fuck if I know||

[merry arrow]

I forgot about the eggs. I didnt even bother going for them in my recent playthrough

[lusty cypress]

Eggs themselves seem to be a joke item
As in Easter eggs

[rose swallow]

...if it's extremely hard, it is

like you literally see ||that the black shard you get is part of a sword||

i cannot believe that ||you getting a very important black shard from a black sword and another character referring to a black shard directly in front of the only other black sword in the game|| is a coincidence

[delicate cave]

It might not be a coincidence, but ||I don't think it points to the sword as being the shard. The shard we get is a part of the sword, not the sword itself.||

[ripe harbor]

they're kinda cute

[gilded canopy]

||Isn't he in front of a corkboard in that scene? The katana is in the kitchen.||

[ripe harbor]

||theres a second, pure black one in the room||

[sour mesa]

||real tricky to see, which raises the odds of it being potentially significant imo||

[gilded canopy]

||Do we have the background image without the in-game sight limit?||

[river moss]

||tricky tony and temmie had enough foresight to black out the majority of the room, you can only see a little bit further if you remove the vision limitations from the soul||

[ripe harbor]

||in game and background sprite||

[sinful crag]

very funny to know people are learning this just now

[sharp lodge]

||tbh it kinda looks like it's in a sheath to me||

[inland hare]

Sheathe makes sense

[gilded canopy]

||Okay, so that is another katana.

However, I'd still argue that he's not talking about the katana from the wording alone.||

Here's the exact wording:
||```

• ...
• It sure is beautiful, isn't it...?
• ... this black shard.

||It's a weird way to refer to a weapon for a character who isn't very violent, to refer to it as beautiful or call it by name(?). Also, "this" is a little clunky to use for an object not currently in your possession, but that's just me..||

[sour mesa]

||he's talking to himself about an object right in front of him, "this" is appropriate||

[gilded canopy]

||I would personally use "that" or "the" if the object is a bit away but that's just my own grammar opinion.||

[sinful crag]

But they're not talking about that one, just this one, yknow? This specific one

[gilded canopy]

||In either case, I think that Asgore is not the kind of person to wax poetic about a weapon, and for that matter, it would be a really silly twist that does nothing but intentionally get peoples' hopes up about Asgore's importance to the plot, by making it sound like he has a black shard but it's just about the regular katana Charol has.||

[sour mesa]

||oh i don't think it's a regular katana||

||i think it's the Knight's||

[gilded canopy]

||I honestly doubt that it is.

It probably more likely inspired the Knight's choice of weapon.||

[delicate cave]

||It being the Knight's runs into a little of the same mayor money tunnel problem as Carol being the knight: either the knight has more than one katana or it ran up from the church and then back down||

[ripe harbor]

Its definitely suspicious that the term 'Black Shard' is mentioned right in front of a pure black sword-thing the exact set of scenes after you can learn that the Knight's 'black knife' can be chipped into 'BlackShard' weapons

that dont seem to shift between Light and Dark worlds

[gilded canopy]

Also ||a weapon being relatively the same between the light world and the dark world isn't what I would expect out of this game's logic.||

[ripe harbor]

idk if its the black knife the knight uses, but maybe its to the black-knife what Kris' black shard is

a chip off the main thing?

[gilded canopy]

||the black shard is probably the one weird exception and it is technically not even a weapon, just a sharpened shard of something||

||I would expect a weapon closely kept in someone's room to turn into an individual darkner rather than stay a weapon.||

[ripe harbor]

I'm 50/50 because everything about the Knight is weird and blurs the borders

I wouldn't be surprised if the last few chapters have way more things 'crossing over'

[gilded canopy]

||I mean, the Knight may not even have a weapon technically. It just summons it out of thin air, made of the same material as itself seemingly, and shifts and warps much like the Knight does. It could be that the weapon isn't even a separate object but a sharpened extrusion of its body.||

[ripe harbor]

mhm

[rose swallow]

being able to just ||carry around a severed body part of the knight|| feels...weird

[ripe harbor]

I think ||whatevers going on with the knight is too complex to really guess without throwing darts at a wall. It's definitely Dess-related, and mirrors Kris + what we know of her, idk if thats the whole story.||

its like a shapeshifting shadow demon made of evil glass

Dess-Shaped hole in the world

[gilded canopy]

||In this case it probably stopped being a "body part" once it broke off

E.g. reverted to the base material that the Knight is made of||

[rose swallow]

one thing about the knight i think is very interesting is that ||when it roars you can see the circle thing inside its chest, a lot like the soul is inside kris's chest||, implying it's a similar situation

but yeah, i do agree that we just don't know enough yet to draw more conclusions

[ripe harbor]

Its interesting how it shares visual similarities and animations with ||The Titan and the Titanspawn||

very related to, what, 'unformed darkness'?

[gilded canopy]

Probably "malevolent darkness", since ||Titans are described as the "shadow of the back side of your mind" and "fear of the dark", meant to evoke the unknown thing that's out to get you||

[lusty cypress]

Maybe the primal image of a predator or natural disaster

[sharp lodge]

had a thought watching vinesauce joel fight the chapter 4 boss ||is the knight stronger than a titan? the titan can only down the party, but the knight can swoon susie and ralsei.||

a moment i think could be cool ||it also made me think of how the black shard is really good at damaging titans and titanspawn, which made me think there could be a moment where someone else summons a titan, and the knight just kills it||

[strange cloud]

Probably

[rose swallow]

that definitely could just be a game balance thing

one boss you're intended to beat and one you're not

[sharp lodge]

yeah

[lusty cypress]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Q4v-QB-KVHU

[rose swallow]

if you think about power scaling logic then you have to acknowledge ||the SOUL can dodge every attack from enemy in the game, but can never dodge the hockey puck||, therefore Kris is stronger than everyone else in the game

[lusty cypress]

Ralsei locked in

[low surge]

Could the SOUL beat Goku?

[inland hare]

Yes

[lethal ferry]

yes

[foggy python]

yes

[inland hare]

It’s like not even a contest

[crystal shale]

Yes

[inland hare]

Defeat is inevitable against the soul

It just doesn’t seem like it at the time

[amber jolt]

yes

Goku: Oh hey Kris! That soul of your's seems pretty strong. Lemme see if I can fight it!

[lethal ferry]

start of ch 4
||why the fuck does Lost Girl play in Ralsei's room.||

[sharp lodge]

||lost girl isn't just associated with noelle and dess||

[river moss]

yeah that track plays a lot in just generally sad scenes

[rose swallow]

||dess ralsei|| theory confirmed

[tropic valve]

My Ralsei thoughts are uhh

||I think Ralsei is the red horned headband that the Dreemurrs got Kris. Turned into a Darkner. I think Kris carries it around all the time, which is why Ralsei is always there.||

[rose swallow]

i'm pretty sure ||ralsei is something on Susie, since there's the part in chapter 2 where you leave ralsei with susie in castle town and there's no indication ralsei disappeared||

[amber jolt]

||maybe kris just left the red headband with susie?||

[rose swallow]

actually wait none of that works, since ||if ralsei is an object on a lightner, when that lightner leaves the dark world without ralsei, that object would not be on their person anymore||

[tropic valve]

Yeah, it's weird. But he's ALWAYS THERE no matter what Dark World he's in, and he seems to never petrify

So it's possible he's an Extra Special Darkner(tm)

[sage needle]

There is also still the question of ||if Ralsei is the red headband why does he know so much? He confesses in Chapter 4 that he literally doesn't know why he knows so much about the prophecy and the rules of the dark world.||

||As cute as being the red headband would be, and I still think it is likely, how does that relate to everything?||

[vocal elbow]

https://bsky.app/profile/skelegem.bsky.social/post/3ltiepj2le22x

SkeleGem (@skelegem.bsky.social)

Deltarune AU idea: It’s exactly the same, but the entire class went to get chalk instead of just Kris and Susie, and now there’s too many Heroes.

Likes

238

Bluesky · Jul 8, 2025, 10:41 PM

[sage needle]

I like that Temmie brought the egg

[sharp lodge]

lol cattie is using jockenstien as a weapon

[low surge]

Ultimate Showdown type shit

[sage needle]

"How about we close our eyes and think about what Susie, Jockington, Cattie, Alphys, and Noelle are doing right now"

[low surge]

Ralsei better start making those cakes

He’s gonna need a lot

[hidden pivot]

||i still think he is shed dreemur fur. so he could appear anywhere toriel, asgore or asriel have been. part way to being a dust tulpa but more different and based on people still alive||

[tropic valve]

Huh, that's interesting

[hidden pivot]

||fluffy, religous, obsessive, community minded, self depreciating, baker, secretive, caring, prideful, loves kris. Ralsei is loaded with mixed dreemur traits.||

[strange cloud]

Damn even in the dark world Monster Teen isn’t allowed to be away from Snowey

[low surge]

Allegations will not be beaten

[ripe harbor]

I suspect he may not even be a particular object

anything with strong personal significance to Kris seems like something that would be recognized / recognize other Darkners ||because we actually see in Tenna's flashback Kris with the horns||

and though they already hinted at it a little bit in previous chapters, theres straight up concept-darkners by the end of 4

[low surge]

Begging Toby to give us like even a crumb more on the grand fountain and how that shit works

[low surge]

Only thing is why the hell would he look like a Dreemur unless he’s an item connected to them? Susie mistakes him for Asriel since she’s never met him, but Noelle could tell they were similar but clearly different. She comments that he kind of looks like Toriel (at least iirc) which I wonder if that means anything. I’m still kind of set on goatsona drawing that Toriel kept at school and maybe misplaced. She seems to use a lot of her kids stuff for her class.

[ripe harbor]

he doesnt really act like any Darkner we see in terms of transport

even the others who come with fall out of your pocket, at least in chapter 2

Ralsei just.... moves

[rose swallow]

i think it's very likely ralsei is just kinda...his own thing

[sour mesa]

baby Titan

[rose swallow]

that we have no way of intuiting until the game gives us the exposition dump about him

[sour mesa]

toddler titan. final answer

[ripe harbor]

the 'main' titan in his roaring explanation...

does have horns

[low surge]

Most likely answer

[analog burrow]

Ralsei could honestly be fur stuck in Kris’s hand-me-down shirt imo. Would explain why they look like Asriel and why they’re always with Kris but aren’t in the inventory.

(chapter 3 spoiler)

[rose swallow]

there's still the pretty big issue of how that fluff gets back to kris's shirt when ralsei doesn't leave the fountain with them, or how he stays in castle town with susie when kris leaves

i think darkner bodies are just kinda...abstract

[analog burrow]

yeah there’s still a lot of questions regardless

[analog burrow]

Clearly this means there’s multiple Ralseis
/j

[velvet olive]

ralsei is a darkner formedd frommm *lining up a dart throw*

Kris themselves

or, like
their shirt. or something

the form kris idealizes or may have idealized for themselves as a child of the dreemurs

[rose swallow]

i don't think polite soft gentle femboy was ever kris's ideal self

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-kris-susie-cheese-kris-and-susie-eating-gif-114097944832697847

i doubt that ralsei is the darkner "of" anything in the light world

[velvet olive]

listen there's no emoji for a dart that completely misses we woulda put it there

[wheat adder]

Considering how much gremlin energy Kris emanates I have to agree

I don't think someone with that much gremlin energy would have soft polite femboy as an ideal self

[loud fulcrum]

https://youtu.be/Cx0oWXFBtRI

[low surge]

Love all the family feud memes

[lusty cypress]

Exactly
Specially in chapter 4, ||he takes a while to pop up in the second sanctuary||

Ralsei must have some capacity to move between dark worlds
Whether it's a feature of Castle Town, a power of his own, or simply knowledge he has
We can't tell

[low surge]

He’s just wrongwarping

[strange cloud]

I missed the Ralsei discussion but I do think whatever he is, he has to be a normal object

When he was talking to Susie in the beginning of chapter 1, he was going to reveal what he was before he got cut off

And his wording was implying whatever he is, it isn’t anything to crazy

Just a simple…

[low surge]

Actually what are the concept related darkeners from chapter 4 someone mentioned? They all seemed to be items of some sort to me. Was it the ||ghost things?||

[lethal ferry]

||the guei?||

[low surge]

Yeah couldn’t remember the name

[lethal ferry]

i thought they were ||candles||

[wheat adder]

Yeah same

[low surge]

Yeah

[wheat adder]

I think the only darkners I have a hard time figuring out the objects for are ||Lanino and Elnina||

[low surge]

I thought maybe those since they’re also kind of like tied to spirits? But I really don’t recall anything that wasn’t some sort of object

[low surge]

I guess they function like adisons or Spamton or really most stuff in the Cyber World in that they’re not exactly physical but are concrete parts of the internet and technology?

[strange cloud]

Yah probably

They’re the weather channel

[wheat adder]

Yeah except that the library had a pile of printed out junk emails

[strange cloud]

Yah but that only applies to Spamton specifically

The addisons aren’t spam emails, they’re just ads

[lethal ferry]

i remember hearing someone say that they could be stickers?

[wheat adder]

I thought maybe they were the Asriel glow in the dark wall star stuff

[strange cloud]

There’s also the hacker which is another not really a physical object character

[lethal ferry]

true true

i think there just has to be some form of physical representation of something to create a darkner

if we assume that the hacker is a mouse cursor then that tracks

[low surge]

Aren’t most of the computers in the library on? There’s the one with the malware dolphin. Could be that some computers had ads on them? It’s less direct but it’s still connected to a physical object. I mean the very existence of enemies like Virovirokun or Tasque or Swatchlings etc have programs on computers counting

[dense cargo]

I thought they were talking about ||the Titans||

[low surge]

So the weather channel doesn’t seem too far off

|| Titans I feel are kind of their own thing and shouldn’t really be considered darkeners. At least in my opinion ||

[dense cargo]

Agreed.

[wheat adder]

The issue is that by that logic both of them shouldn't exist in castle town without ||Tenna, since he's the TV they exist in||

[low surge]

I mean do we assume Kris brought every single computer from the library back? All the cords and mice etc? Were all the different software based darkeners only on the laptop that became Queen?

[lusty cypress]

||Think thus every darkner is an "object", but it doesn't have to be physical
A notebook with a lot of drawings per page would have each drawing be a darkner||

[low surge]

I think the rules are a little fast and loose here

[dense cargo]

Yeah, it might be a bit futile to try and find exact mechanics here

[strange cloud]

Yah

They all represent something

But not necessarily a physical object

[lusty cypress]

Anything you could personify in your imagination can probably be a darkner

[strange cloud]

We were dealing with viruses and anti viruses in cyber world

[lusty cypress]

If I were in deltarune, I'd be so tempted to experiment with this

[strange cloud]

Wing Gaster

[low surge]

I ain’t gonna lie I’m 100% falling for the escapism my ass is gonna fight the FUN gang to keep my dark world

[lusty cypress]

Like find situations where differentiatingva thing into a single or multiple characters could be hard to pick between
Or differentiate an object from a place

[low surge]

(I get oneshot)

[lusty cypress]

I'd go around making dark fountains

Just to see what happens, and if I can create paradoxes in the "narrative" of the worlds

Specially when I learn c4 ||you can get different "angles" of the same dark world, and fountains can leak into each other's worlds||

On that note ||we totally are seeing the classroom kingdom again, considering the comment on the door||

[low surge]

I kind of thought that in the back of my mind but now with chapter 4 stuff that really makes it interesting

[wheat adder]

Susie does talk about how you shouldn't go into the computer room or people will notice that you stole everything inside

If you interact with the door

[lusty cypress]

Oh lmao

[low surge]

Missed that piece of dialogue award

Good point

[strange cloud]

Me robbing my broke dad blind because a new blorbo spawned in his house

[wheat adder]

Lmao

[lusty cypress]

The fun gang is kinda robbing shit across town
The darkners, decorations for Ralsei

[wheat adder]

They're gay and doing crimes

[lusty cypress]

Just putting it all in their secret base in the closet

[wheat adder]

Role models for all the queer kids

[lusty cypress]

The mystical gays with their kingdom in the closet

To someone unaware, they must be so weird
"Oh the weird kid and the delinquent got nice and sociable, but are grabbing shit across town and putting in their 'secret' base. And uh, talking to objects as if they were friends"
"Well, whatever helps their mental health"

[strange cloud]

Toriel has been asking around to make sure Kris isn’t sick

[dense cargo]

Hey here's a question I've not seen people discuss so far. ||Does anyone have ideas as to what Kris could have written while with Susie at QCs in|| Chapter 4?

[wheat adder]

"That doesn't fit my Toriel is a neglectful and abusive mother narrative so I will ignore it." - the Fandom

[lusty cypress]

People have issues about toriel

[strange cloud]

TRUE

Honest to god

The chapter 4 ending scene only works

If Toriel is normally an amazing mother who cares so fucking much about Kris

Legitimately, if this is just a constant thing that shit sucks

[wheat adder]

God forbid a woman has fun

For one night

And forgets to check in on her like 16-17 year old kid that's not alone and also living in the safest town around

[strange cloud]

Especially a night when her kid that’s been a huge recluse for the past few years has finally started suddenly being more social

Like, it sucks, it’s a mistake to not check up on Kris, it clearly causes something to Susie and it’s awful

However

One mistake in one night does not a negligent parent make

Let alone imply she doesn’t care about Kris as much as she cares about Asriel

[wheat adder]

Yup

Like I was a neglected child and Toriel does not ring any alarm bells

[strange cloud]

Like, people are now analyzing every line she has under the guise of “she’s neglectful”

When that just isn’t the case

People bring up how barren Kris’s side of the room but what makes up Asriel’s side isn’t like, toys or gifts

They’re trophies and awards

It’s because Asriel was outgoing and Kris wasn’t

Kris’s main skill, piano, was a private thing for them

They’d play with Dess yah but the mostly played alone, literally waiting until Noelle was out of the room to play and stopping if she went inside

[wheat adder]

A neglectful parent wouldn't gush to everyone they meet about their kid's piano talents

[strange cloud]

Exactly!

[wheat adder]

They'd just not even notice said talent to begin with

[strange cloud]

She has so much pride in Kris

If anything she reads as maybe a little overbearing in chapter 1 and before

She literally takes their hand to go 5 feet

She’s loosening up because while she’s worried about the sudden shift in behavior, she’s also happy they’re finally making friends again

And like, idk I’m more willing to believe Toriel made a mistake then that she’s just an alcoholic when her partying days are repeatedly said to be behind her

[wheat adder]

Yeah, also I imagine she's probably trying to accept Kris will be an adult and going to college by themself very soon

Like she's a divorced mom in a small town and her kids are leaving soon

She probably has to learn to let go and let them do their own thing

[strange cloud]

Yah, and also like we can’t discount that she also has her own problems

Her tires were slashed and Asgore is getting more and more desperate

[wheat adder]

Imagine not being able to leave the house without being jumped by your ex husband trying to offer you flowers

He was literally hiding behind a tree waiting for her to leave church

It's

Really fucking creepy

[strange cloud]

Like getting drunk late at night with a friend is honestly a pretty normal thing in that situation

[wheat adder]

But somehow the fandom want them to go back together???

[strange cloud]

For real! I love you asgore but you better some goddamn character development chapter 5 and leave her alone!

Idk, there just some fucking, wild takes on Toriel because of that one scene

Like people saying the “how to raise humans” books implies Kris is treated like a pet by the Dreemures

[wheat adder]

I think it's just more brainrot

[strange cloud]

Like, humans and monsters are different biologically

They have different medical needs

[wheat adder]

Like, I imagine if chapter 5 came out alongside 3&4, it wouldn't be that bad

[strange cloud]

Of course there would be books on the subjects for monster parents

There’s probably how to raise monster books to

[strange cloud]

Absolutely not yah

Like, this entire scenario is cleared up in a single conversation next morning

[lusty cypress]

Toriel is happier with sans

[strange cloud]

Sans will be the father who stepped up mark my words

He’s also going to wear that shirt because he thinks it’s funny

[lusty cypress]

Asgore is attached to the past and is running over Toriel's feelings and needs

He thinks he can just change what she thinks if he succeeds

[strange cloud]

Exactly, he refuses to move on

It doesn’t matter if Toriel learns about dark worlds or what happened to Dess

[wheat adder]

If anything, Asgore is the parent who actually seems neglectful
He uses Kris as a divorce courier

[strange cloud]

What causes their divorce wasn’t that single issue

[lusty cypress]

He's like those toxic romance movies centered on the men

[strange cloud]

It was all the fighting and how their relationship worsened

Asgore can’t see that anymore, all he can think about is the first thing he thinks causes everything else

[strange cloud]

Yah, and hell I still think he loves Kris more then life itself

Like, I really don’t think the Dreemure house story works is Toriel and Asgore both don’t love Kris more then anything

Like, if they play favorites and prefer Asriel, the entire storyline falls apart