Undertale and Deltarune

[ripe harbor]

tbf, the ||statue is gerson-like and theres not really a clear object the Darkner would be patterned after||

so it could be both ||the thing that was a statue & also only ever going to exist because Susie's dark world summoned a fucked up Gerson (like the Wicabells already being statues in the first world as well, acausally)||

[lusty cypress]

I love wicabel

[lusty cypress]

C4 image in the thumbnail
theory about the plot
||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8Wk6mCRRdI||

[lusty cypress]

So the eggman is really weird
||He says the world was different at the start
He can't be remembered, kris can't draw him
Chapter 4 egg room is reminiscent of drawing therapy||

[sage needle]

My only hope for chapter 5 is that it gives us more material for agenda posting lol

[ripe harbor]

next release should be the whole damn thing

theres gonna be a bit more than chapter 5!

[ripe harbor]

have you seen (what is almost certainly) his valentine letter?

||After chapter 3's egg room theres pretty much nobody else it could be, though it was mysterious at the time||

[strange cloud]

Honestly leaning towards ||Gaster’s Deltarune equivalent||

||who was similarly shattered across time||

[ripe harbor]

he seems good natured

if a bit mixed up

[strange cloud]

Yah

Unlike Mr WD over there

Making a tragic prophecy because he’s bored

[ripe harbor]

wym the prophecy is so happy, didn't you read the part where the world is saved

[strange cloud]

Gaster: I HAVE MADE RALSEI KNOWLEDGABLE

Forgotten Man: You fucked up a perfectly good darkner is what you did. Look at it. It’s got anxiety

[crystal shale]

I do wonder if ||Dess, or whoever the text in the Files is, is basically becoming an entity similar to Gaster||

[strange cloud]

Did you mean ||Dess?||

[crystal shale]

yes I'm bad with names

[ripe harbor]

it was said that this happened to Gaster because he 'fell into his creation', which might've been a Dark Fountain

so if what happened to Dess was "fell into the void" then yeah maybe

[sour mesa]

while what happened to Ness is that he became Sans

[ripe harbor]

||Though, if shes the knight, shes honestly much less fucked up than Gaster.||

[ripe harbor]

Truth Buster

[crystal shale]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-susie-gerson-titan-true-gif-15575232277858648993

[strange cloud]

Been hanging out in the lore pit channels in Andrew cunningham’s server

And holy shit they are at each other’s throats over there

me included

[low surge]

Me when I have to torture my Noelle because I’m bored

[strange cloud]

Me when I kill Onion because I’m bored

[lethal ferry]

what hills are people dying on

[strange cloud]

1. Kris is vriska
2. Kris is not themselves while soulless
3. Dess knight is disappointing compared to Alvin knight
4. Kris does/does not have intrusive thoughts
5. The soul is Kris or not Kris’s original soul
6. Did Kris get any pleasure from snowgrave
7. (I’m realizing most of these are Kris related) Toriel is neglectful towards kris

[low surge]

I’m not dying on any hill, I’m going to kill you on mine

[low surge]

Who’s vriska?

[strange cloud]

Homestuck character

[low surge]

That would explain me not knowing

Yet to read it

[strange cloud]

Oh also if Kris has DID or not

[lethal ferry]

1. fucking lol
2. possible?
3. debatable
4. unlikely/we are the intrusive thoughts
5. the current soul is almost certainly a separate being from Kris
6. Kris fucking hates you man
7. she was in ch 4

[dense cargo]

Ch 4 ||Honestly, Gerson's role in the chapter relieved any disappointment I could have had over Alvin not being the Knight. I got to fight a turtle, I'm happy.||

[sharp lodge]

i'm gonna be honeset and say i disagree with most of this.
i think the only one i do agree with is 1
4 is not a thing we can really prove either way

[strange cloud]

Oh yah I disagree with most too lol

These aren’t my hills

They’re others

[sharp lodge]

ye

[dense cargo]

Except for 1, right?

[strange cloud]

I’ve never read homestuck

I tried to and quickly found myself not enjoying it

[dense cargo]

I did read it, and I also didn't enjoy it

[sharp lodge]

basically vriska was a morally ambugous character who generated a huge amount of discourse
to the point that when the HS forums were still a thing discussion of her had to be quarantined

[strange cloud]

Though in that case it’s that Kris is literally meant to parallel Vriska

[dense cargo]

Oh that's way lamer

[sharp lodge]

probably not tbh

[dense cargo]

Yeah almost definitely not

[sour mesa]

There's similarities but like, they're the similarities you'd find between lots of abuse/manipulation narratives

[strange cloud]

I will say a lot of those points tend to revolve around one theory that’s surprisingly popular there that we aren’t playing as like, an entity separate from Kris but instead as Kris, them ripping out their soul is essentially them disassociating and also maybe a separate alter in a plural system depending on the person talking about it

[sharp lodge]

if that was the case, why was the goner maker a thing?

[strange cloud]

that’s like, Kris’s fantasy I think

I think that idea is dumb but that’s the theory

[foggy python]

who the fuck was gunning for alvin knight

[strange cloud]

…I mean it was a possibility

I didn’t personally subscribe to it to much (I was always more of a Gaster knight guy) but like, it had some interesting ideas

[foggy python]

It was possible but I cannot imagine being that passionate about it

though

then again i did not expect ||gerson|| to be so hype--to the point of being my absolute favorite part of chapter 4

So they got some tangential points

[sharp lodge]

alvin's too wishy washy to have been a good knight candidate imo

[sharp lodge]

i agree about that

[foggy python]

agreed. ch4 shows he's much too lost to be anything satisfying

[foggy python]

bliue

[strange cloud]

They are both blue I’ll give them that

[golden haven]

The difference is i like kris

[sharp lodge]

you know how the voice that cuts off the goner maker really resembles chara in japanese?
i kinda wonder if that was kris
they are a lot like chara, and chara isn't in DT

i like both of them personally

[golden haven]

I like the one with character development

(there are multiple vriskas)

[sharp lodge]

yeah it kinda sucks that her character development got thrown out

[sour mesa]

I'm on board with it being literally Chara tbh

[sharp lodge]

maybe

[vocal elbow]

They do say at the end of Geno that it's time to move on to the next world.

[strange cloud]

I don’t really like that idea tbh

I kinda prefer chara either stay in undertale or if they do exist in Deltarune, they exist as themselves

I also am not super big on Kris being chara either

Or like, the DR equivalent of them

[sharp lodge]

fair enough
i'm not super attached to that idea anyway

[sharp lodge]

https://old.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/sa2md2/dont_worry_gaster_the_player_is_easily_entertained/

[ripe harbor]

1. sure I accept it uncritically <- dont know what that means
2. idk prolly not
3. no shot its got juice to it
4. idk maybe. maybe a bit they are a Weird Kid.
5. idk. probably- not? Do they need a soul? Its associated so strongly with us basically all times.
6. like- any? Maybe a small bit. But its horror & they think its horror.
7. Unintentionally and only recently I guess?

[analog burrow]

Seems to me like the Man ||is pretty personal to Kris, and could be some kind of forgotten/repressed memory given form, particularly with the line “You can never wash it all away.”||

also the mere existence of ||a secret “Forgotten Man” in a game where the main motif is “Don’t Forget” feels noteworthy||

[amber jolt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/988685914387648632/1041756431013134436/q5OeqocXb0x2gNUX.mp4?ex=686a0008&is=6868ae88&hm=6597998778342faa48d76fc5e196b93007b0f79b5b60f5487745221aeae9bf4b&

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxLt8T1UMYY

[white basalt]

i've heard this audio before but only now do i notice the push me, and then just touch me

[lusty cypress]

Yeah in c4 ||it's really reminiscent of therapy||

[strange cloud]

||https://youtu.be/OaEyFvvKgYw?si=Lj2Wi-Jvax3V3N17||

Chapter 4 weird route spoilers

[wheat adder]

https://youtu.be/4or-Lq5cZL4?si=MImVKMPmNXASz3u9

https://tenor.com/view/disintegrating-funny-thanos-gif-22399978

Penumbra Phantasm believers in shambles

[lusty cypress]

Cute fanart of the soul keeping the dress. Two images
But Kris saying the soul made them wear the outfits in the chapters is just a very weird take
https://www.tumblr.com/t1mmytim/786734437484429312

[inland hare]

kris saying that as if they don't know they wre really owning that waiter outfit

sayaka looking enby

[lusty cypress]

Outfits is like one of the things we just don't get much choice in in the game

[strange cloud]

Every day I don’t look like Kris Deltarune I punch my mirror

[timber widget]

holy moly

[ripe harbor]

he's so funny

[wheat adder]

Yeah this gives more credence to my feeling that gaster and the forgotten man are not the same

[dense cargo]

Huh, you're right, I hadn't thought of that

[low surge]

Didn’t know about this

[inland hare]

Yeah I didn’t really know if Egg man was gaster. This is a point against it I think

Also

Do you think Asgore should remarry miss mad mew mew

[dense cargo]

I mean, technically this doesn't disprove the theory that egg man is a piece of Gaster

And that the Voice is another one

[sour mesa]

i do think gaster is the type of guy who considers exposing or revealing himself to be an "issue"

[timber widget]

Gaster could still consider interacting with him, however slightly, to be an issue yeah

[dense cargo]

I mean, he's been deliberately doing that already though

[ripe harbor]

only to us

[strange cloud]

Unfortunately I think the only person asgore would remarry would be Rudy but he’s (idk if happily) married rn

[dense cargo]

Oh right

[ripe harbor]

if this were true it makes this line pretty funny

from his valentines day card

"Was it myself? No... well, perhaps."

I want to see how ||the Prophecy and Gaster and fated world ending + angel stuff|| merges with the ||December Holiday missing small town conspiracy stuff, and Kris being a part of that||

[sour mesa]

that does line up

[ripe harbor]

thematically

like Device Theory and its metafiction lens was mentioned the other day

is that applicable to the Holiday's situation and the way it seems to be a main drive for the antagonists?

||I mean its technically not been elaborated on what Dess' home life was like before she disappeared, but cmon. She smokes weed with her shitty high school band while living with Carol, who we already see is super controlling within 5 minutes of meeting her. Is there going to be something about Dess getting lost in the Darkness because she was the type of person to get lost in dreams and strain against the town she lived in?||

grr I just know the Festival is going to link them together in some peak way but its not gonna be out for a while >:(

[dense cargo]

||At least we already know when it'll be||

||And one year is not that much, compared to the wait for the previous chapters||

[ripe harbor]

true

I'm still honing in on defining identity as the core character theme

so- ||The December plot has to hook into that? Or at least I expect it to?||

[low surge]

Is it only gonna be chapter 5 or are we getting another chunk?

[crystal shale]

As far as we know only 5

But its also been like a month or less since 3+4 came out

[ripe harbor]

Gaster says 'continuned in chapter 5' with the release date 2026
but Toby has previously said after this last launch there was only ever going to be one more drop or he'll tie himself to the train tracks or whatever

[strange cloud]

Yah just chapter 5

[strange cloud]

I mean that’s true but chapter 5 already has a lot of work done for it

It was originally planned for 3 and 4

So it’s already been in development for a while

[low surge]

For the better, I’d rather that than such a significantly long break

[ripe harbor]

yeah it could get chapter 2'd, I guess

[ripe harbor]

I think I'm the opposite,

I'd wait an extra year to get everything at once

I think each chapter is improved when you have the other bits to take in account

It reminds me of some friends I had who fell off hard on KSBD during the longer fight scenes

[crystal shale]

Imagine the theories we would have gotten if we only got Chapter 3

[ripe harbor]

but then you read the comic once its out and it flows so much better

Chapter 3 was actually finished back in 2023

so I wouldn't be surprised if the later chapters were more done than not

[strange cloud]

So many evil Kris theories from the weird route Eram fight

[crystal shale]

Eram?

[low surge]

|| secret shadow mantle boss ||

[ripe harbor]

woah

thats ||Tv World?||

[strange cloud]

Probably

[low surge]

Toby started cooking so long ago it’s kind of crazy

[lusty cypress]

It would be funny
Imagine mad mew mew driving Kris to the school

[ripe harbor]

no kidding

I respect a dev who's able to just leave ominous messages without payoff for years

whenever I GM I tend to pull someone in not in the game to spill all my plans to. I just can't not say them.

[lusty cypress]

Consider
Carol seems to have gotten worse since losing Dess
To be the sorta person to marry Rudy, she was probably less strict and cold

[ripe harbor]

mhm, but then if thats the case

how does Dess' story tie into all the Identity Building the main cast has done?

and thats a not a theme thats gotten less prominent over the chapters, susie has like 3 monologues about it between the final boss of 3 and the final boss of 4

"What you are expected to be" versus "What you want to be"

that Dess is sorta punkish kinda implies in that direction, I think

[lusty cypress]

I'm not saying Carol wasn't strict
Just saying her current level factors Dess disappearance

[ripe harbor]

thats kind of the interesting thing about all the ice symbolism she has

Is Carol hanging onto the past in regards to Dess, in a negative way?

In a way directly analogous to Tenna or Asgore or whoever?

shes stuck, and ||meanwhile you got Noelle letting Susie play the guitar and make something new without telling her all the baggage attached - its like a contrast between moving on and being frozen in time.||

these could just be parallel themes but I dont think that would sit right with me

if there was just a supernatural factor to Dess' state and disappearance

what does it mean for her character that she fell into the dream?

[crimson ocean]

||https://youtu.be/sKPPiIH1Rhg?si=xMVQEFSvl0Q_hHVG||

ch3 final boss "secret" ig ???

[lusty scarab]

||https://www.tumblr.com/jastard/788241667319857152/new-animatic-snowing-some-graves-having-free?source=share || Snowgrave spoilers

[strange cloud]

I saw this animation earlier today and it’s so fucked

[inland hare]

https://youtu.be/Acrf3TyPluQ?si=YeXYqVLkhBx8qL37

[lusty cypress]

Wonder what other info there is about sword magician

[dense cargo]

Ch 3 ||The character from the videogame Asriel used to play?||

[golden haven]

Why ms mew mew specifically

[inland hare]

She’s got a crush on Asgore

[golden haven]

Oh i see
Was this in UT too or just in DR

[inland hare]

DR

Pretty sure she’s got a crush on Undyne in UT

[lusty cypress]

Yeah.

[dense cargo]

What else is there to know? ||It's a character from a fighting game||

[wheat adder]

Spoilers???
||Rofl
https://youtu.be/BXyAmWifTXA?si=5f-94mM5TYWVYWLV||

[crimson ocean]

https://youtu.be/QuN2Fl2j1l8

It's just analog horror for those who dont like it but the tone is so good

[ripe harbor]

this is pretty funny because it means between that and the Mew Mew she has nearly the same taste as Alphys

[analog burrow]

Given all the existing water symbolism, ice representing the weird route is something to keep in mind

[low surge]

I’m sure someone already made something like this but I had to

[ripe harbor]

Shes likely to still have some of it in the normal route, assuming (and I think its a safe assumption) that Noelle will still be massively important later on

though weird route might be about her getting strong enough to actually freeze everything in place, metaphorically locking the world into a single state, forever

contrasting the fountains, I guess

which flow on and on

theres a bit of an association with cold and strength

Head Hathy and that one Werewire are both stronger than usual and 'emotionally' cold

and, you know, that whole thing

with the weird route

[lusty cypress]

||What smash character she parallels (the others are dedede, ridley, yoshi), and if there's any funny anecdote like asriel feeling bad about sacrificing toshis||

[ripe harbor]

I love in character susies

[ripe harbor]

||Link or Marth, maybe, if its supposed to be a direct melee reference?||

[inland hare]

well something akin to ||Yoshi exists...||

anyways

if its literally a "sword magician"

[foggy python]

||personally, i think she represents||

[inland hare]

candidates are like... maybe Hero?

[foggy python]

same brain

[inland hare]

yeah

[foggy python]

lets fucking go

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-dab-me-up-garp-aokiji-frame-gif-11803377855144251548

[inland hare]

would also be thematic

[low surge]

Bad ending: it’s one of the fire emblem characters

[foggy python]

oh right them too

[low surge]

(I actually don’t mind them I just play Rob)

[inland hare]

could also be Robin yeah

I think Hero makes the best sense given deltarune's themes though

[vocal elbow]

or Pyra maybe? Though the magician part doesn't stick.

[ripe harbor]

yeah that tracks

I always imagined the smash-clone to be literally melee level tech

but I might've been baited by the CRT and wavedashing

[inland hare]

they do mention that like

asriel ||recently changed his favorite character||

so maybe he mained ||yoshi in melee but switched recently to Hero||

[foggy python]

I think it's ultimate because berdly seems like the exact type to like melee despite ultimate's existance than liking melee because he wants to be the best at the current stuff

[inland hare]

i can't even tell if Asriel's being sarcatic as hell or being serious in ||his love letter to Catti||

[ripe harbor]

but the hero is 'embarrasing for other reasons' so. Aesthetically like the Hyperdeath OC donut steel he's got or maybe a little immodestly dressed ||like that dragon drawing book||

#mysterysolved

[lusty cypress]

Retrobaited
Well ridley is one character tenna mentions

[ripe harbor]

All his other characterization makes me think he'd be a dork enough to be serious

[inland hare]

lmao

[foggy python]

he is pretty fuckin dorky

[ripe harbor]

he feels bad after killing yoshi. he's in choir and goes to church every week

[inland hare]

if I read that in church I think I'd break out giggling too

must be tough being Kris as the only sane person in their home

[ripe harbor]

thats why having the Holidays over was important. You need some Rudy and Dess to balance it out

or you end up saying things like "Onkey Donkey" as a grown-ass man

[inland hare]

or you end up being the closet human to scare monster children

[foggy python]

dreemurr family with the "god these people are so weird thank fuck im the only normal one here"

[inland hare]

the closet human needed to be exterminated with wiffle bats

all part of a healthy child hood

[lusty cypress]

Sword magician girl sounds cool

[inland hare]

yeah

still wondering if ||the Knight's movesets are based on sword magician lmao||

[foggy python]

a literal sword magician

[low surge]

I love the art people have made where the God of Hyperdeath was Ariel’s DnD character

[golden haven]

would toriel approve of her children playing Dee en Dee

or her children's friends

[ripe harbor]

kindergarten teacher more likely to be a fan of make-believe imo

[low surge]

I mean she did make the family go to church for a week straight after Azzy kissed Bratty (supposedly)

[inland hare]

wait a minute

azzy kissed bratty

and then asked Catti out for prom?

[ripe harbor]

yup

he's a playa

[inland hare]

I see why those two are enemies

asriel is a dirty sinner

[low surge]

I know what you are Asriel Dreemur

Why do you think he got out of town?

College? Please

[lusty cypress]

She was a party animal in college

[low surge]

|| and still is at heart ||

[inland hare]

She’s a wine mom

[low surge]

Oh god oh fuck

How many live laugh love signs do you think she owns

[lusty cypress]

Also the Church has halloween decoratiom

[ripe harbor]

Game probably takes place around that time

1st chapter released on Halloween, all the trees are Northeastern US fall colors, and you can get see all that halloween decoration in chapter 1 and 4

Samhain was a liminal or threshold festival, when the boundary between this world and the Otherworld blurred, making contact with the aos sí more likely.

which could have no implications on anything

[golden haven]

oh nooo

so, we're all rpg nerds here right
what sort of ttrpgs would the fun gang and adjacent characters play/be interested in playing

[ripe harbor]

susie will not be reading the rules. so whatever lets her do whatever dumb thing she wants to improv with minimal trouble

[foggy python]

susie plays that fuckass planet with 10 million hp

[ripe harbor]

Ralsei reads the rules and knows them back and front entirely, could handle any 400 page rpg easily

[foggy python]

10 million hp planet

[ripe harbor]

Kris could fully know the rules but uses rules knowledge to troll

[foggy python]

Kris volunteers to DM solely to create horror focused campaigns that cause irregular blood pressure levels to noelle

[ripe harbor]

while Ralsei knows the rules because he thinks the rules themselves are important. Unfortunately for him he's also too much of a doormat to actually rules lawyer anyone either so he'd just get steadily more nervous as the game goes off the rails.

Would probably still have fun though

[golden haven]

noelle can minmax but chooses not to
maybe

[foggy python]

noelle is on build forums

[ripe harbor]

ya

Kris would do things like do incredibly optimized stupid builds

Noelle is good faith

unfortunately this means Berdly is GM-ing 😭

[golden haven]

Noelle would teach susie how to make actual builds

[foggy python]

kris and noelle opt to build their characters in a way that compliments each other but every character interaction is a coinflip between something genuine and kris trolling

[ripe harbor]

ironically

[golden haven]

in an elfgame i just Know he plays a wizard or a wizard-adjacent class

[ripe harbor]

I think Berdly is actually nearly there to being a great player

[white basalt]

[insert obligatory mention of nobilis here]

[inland hare]

kris is a metagamer

[golden haven]

or a paladin

[ripe harbor]

he probably goes over the line into too reddit. But

he's already really hammy, he's literally RP-ing all of chapter 2

[golden haven]

Kris might play a wizard

[foggy python]

he has a spotlight issue and thats like. it. which also isnt that much of a problem since a lot of them may just be there to goof anyways

[ripe harbor]

ego is a bit of an issue for players, but really you just need to reel him in he's not ill-meaning

and tbh I'd rather have a monologuer than someone with no interest

[low surge]

Susie is the player asking if she can punch an NPC or do some crazy shit every other encounter (half of the people I play with)

[ripe harbor]

Susie's character is clearly just her in the game

[low surge]

Do NOT mention an inconsequential NPC or someone with a stupid name you will get derailed

[ripe harbor]

its not clear if shes doing that on purpose

[inland hare]

Kris is the player who pretends like they aren't paying attention to the game and then strikes at the most critical moment to cause maximum chaos

i love how much of a sitcom archnemesis relationship kris has with berdly

[ripe harbor]

Noelle's characters all fit the setting and world but they end playing suspiciously similar to each other and touching on her family issues. Lots of royalty

[foggy python]

ooh yeah, i think susie asks if she can punch npcs but strangely enough never follows through with few exceptions being beating up an NPC that got a little too annoying and inconvenient to the whole party WITHOUT asking

[foggy python]

actual saboteur shit

[inland hare]

noelle only ever plays one character across any kind of games

[ripe harbor]

I think she tries to maybe add some differences to them

[foggy python]

grimdark royalty

[ripe harbor]

like each one is considered for the setting, shes engaging

[inland hare]

well she'll fit the character to the setting somehow

[ripe harbor]

but they are all very similar

[inland hare]

but they'll all look the same

and have similar issues

(which is what I do honestly)

[foggy python]

most dysfunctional group therapy ever

[low surge]

God I wish my friends could be more like Susie lmao

[foggy python]

better than me plagiarizing a lot of my characters

[ripe harbor]

susie eats the dice at least once

[inland hare]

I always believed that a well exists in every human being

[foggy python]

A well in humanity...

[low surge]

Free snacks man

[inland hare]

and I trust in the depth of that well more than I trust in the wideness of the ocean

[foggy python]

you need players that lock the fuck in

[hidden pivot]

||obviously the knight is darkerdarkner from a darker world made when you make a fountain in a dark world that was already made by one fountain, so has different rules||

[foggy python]

the dice are just fancy sugar cubes

but bitter

and crunchy

[golden haven]

now say
which fun gang and co member wouldn't play themselves in a dee and dee game

*dee and dee and adjacent ttrpg types

[ripe harbor]

I think Kris at least partially

[crimson ocean]

🐐 "what did you roll susie" 🐊 " we'll find in about an hour"

[hidden pivot]

be the susie you want to see in the world

[foggy python]

kris has a whole ass monstersona

[ripe harbor]

do you think they'd.... ever play humans?

I could see them swapping each game tbh

playing the weirdest type of character for each fantastical setting

[low surge]

It would be really funny if Ralsei was a super edgy character but it would never happen

[ripe harbor]

Catti exclusively plays WoD

[foggy python]

i think the first time they play someone would ask kris if something would be accurate to humans and kris would shake their head--not to say no, but to dismiss the matter as if being the wrong person to ask and it never happens again

[lusty cypress]

Wod/Cofd and cain for kris and noelle
Icon for susie and ralsei

[golden haven]

oh she would

[foggy python]

capki gives me an idea--ralsei plays someone that isnt himself not because of any inclination to but because by sticking to the rules he creates everything in according to the books, including potential personality example tables

chapter 7 ralsei has the development to play himself

hopefully.

trust.

[ripe harbor]

or something like this

https://www.tumblr.com/wyntonyang/731719389767958528

[low surge]

Won’t touch werewolf tho

[inland hare]

do you think werewolves are considered offensive in the verse

or would they be a trans species allegory

this conundrum hurts my brain

what would werewolf even be

would monsters turn into wolves

or is it about wolf monsters

[foggy python]

mm

[low surge]

🤔

[inland hare]

or is it about humans who turned into wolf monsters

[foggy python]

i think werewolves are treated like dragon installs

[golden haven]

dont you have the option to play as other animals in wta/wtf

[foggy python]

i have no evidence for this

[golden haven]

though theres a lack of explicit wereturtle options except for like a general suggestion sidebar so that makes me sad

[foggy python]

wereturtle is kind of badass

[lusty cypress]

Wta has a lot of options integrated
Wtf it's mostly the book War Against the Pure, but some dark eras explored that too

[foggy python]

yuuup. i get tough as shit and armored

gonna sit here for the full moon invincible

[golden haven]

wereseaturtle specifically

[foggy python]

yuuuuuuup.

oh

[lusty cypress]

War against the pure has rules for making shifters

[foggy python]

i get aquafinity as shit and armored

[golden haven]

i wanna play a wereseaturtle after visiting a sea turtle place

[foggy python]

gonna swim here for the full moon sorta invincible

[lusty cypress]

Sea creatures do get grouped under the Brineborn

[low surge]

I had an idea for a werewolf clan from Japan that made a deal with a tsuchinoko spirit to become like armored snake wolf things

Haven’t really read any WTA stuff though mostly interested in mage and vampire

[analog burrow]

man I am slowly turning into green pippins

[inland hare]

Join the club

We are already all green puppies

[ripe harbor]

ngl

that Fucking Cat That I Hate's face appeared in my dream last night. No other deltarune elements present or anything. I'm already there.

its probably not an issue or any- Theme suddenly gains freedom motif ah fuck

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/sweats-gif-25346666

[ripe harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/skeptical-cat-cat-scan-friend-image-friend-gif-4482870706369598390

[strange cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/choso-choso-jjk-choso-jujutsu-kaisen-choso-anime-jujutsu-kaisen-gif-10037971888755283102

[ripe harbor]

yesssss, I have managed to convert one of my friends to the Friend train

its that easy

I think I've come around to tentatively accepting it as whatever was speaking during Nightmare / Eram / The Mantle stuff, too

||I mean it probably gave the controller, right? Or stuck around in the Vending Machine, its little guys appear in the fight, it's been watching us enough to know what we're doing... Idk. ||

though
||I also liked the interpretation I heard that the Nightmare was an game representation of the Knight, and spoke 'on behalf of' the real Knight in that quest. Especially with how both are inside the Shelter and 'have work to do'.||

[low surge]

|| Doesn’t FRIEND have to be something that’s sort of outside the regular mechanics of dark worlds, since it’s show up in 3 separate places? ||

[ripe harbor]

idk. I'll be honest I never really thought of that specifically

||Ralsei and the Titans don't follow the usual rules either, and though the Knight is probably at least mostly Lightner theres something off there too.||

I just assumed whatever it was, it was closer to those things the Forgotten Man

instead of just a Darkner

[lusty cypress]

Granted, seems Ralsei was made from the pure fountain

[foggy python]

oh right

huh.

[lusty cypress]

Tbh. The fandom was very weird about this
They were spamming the idea this made Ralsei suspicious, even though the idea the pure darkness allowing him to stay in other worlds is an easy explanation to come up with, and rather likely even if not confirmed
Kinda like people being certain kris hates the soul. Or that kris hated ralsei

[low surge]

Kris hates Ralsei believers have been banished to the fields of salt and lamenting at last

[strange cloud]

My name is Oyzmandius, Theorist of Theorist. Gaze upon my predications and despair.

[golden haven]

I can still hear his voice

But hey
Its just a

[foggy python]

people really shoot for the extremes when it comes to predictions

[ripe harbor]

I mean I wouldn't be surprised if he was 'something else' compared to the average object-Darkner tbf

[low surge]

Ralsei evil theorists when he makes us a cake and talks about how insecure he is and how much he likes having friends now: “this guy is literally satan”

[ripe harbor]

the Kris Slash thing is the new extreme overshooting theory imo

[low surge]

|| Kris being the one to down Susie and Ralsei? ||

[timber widget]

||Ralsei at least, since that slash appears to come from the left||

[foggy python]

||probably a theorybait moment||

||including Kris is The Roaring Knight stuff||

[ripe harbor]

||I actually give the pre-Chapter 3+4 Kris = Knight theorists credit because the ones I talked to mostly focused on how suspicious the ending of chapter 2 was, and the specific steps taken to make the Dark World. They ended up 100% right that Kris was antagonistic, at least.||

more right than not, I wasn't aware of their game

[ripe harbor]

post 3-4 this would be deranged. someone probably says it though

[lusty cypress]

True, my complaint is certainty, specially as we have so much ambiguity
Any of Ralsei's unique abilities could be due to the pure dark fountain or some unknown factor. Plus his movement between worlds could be due to castle town, a personal power, or knowledge of paths
Plus I got annoyed seeing every power of his get called suspicious. "What are you, a sentinel from marvel?"

[vocal elbow]

||Kris is more the Roaring Squire now.||

[ripe harbor]

After ||susie brings it up twice on her own||, I'm about his looks again

[foggy python]

||it's not a bad theory, but it is the kind of thing that seems to play on what perceptions we have of Kris than anything. Which is to also say that Toby Fox is capable of making incredibly colorful relationships and stories, and just by hunch vibes alone the whole Kris is the Knight seems to be, and seemed to be at the end of chapter 2, a red herring with some kernel of truth inside||

[lusty cypress]

We have a lot of crumbs, but people act like we can already accurately reconstruct the sandwich

[ripe harbor]

||It seems to have some meaning in-universe, at least, to the point where its A Thing characters are reacting to||

yeah pretty much

I got no idea what he is except fluffy and well-meaning

[golden haven]

Mm sandwich

[vocal elbow]

||And burdened with the Curse of Knowledge||

[foggy python]

||also toby fox makes special effort to play with what it means to perceive the world as a player-soul, so coming to the conclusion that Kris is the Knight at the end of Ch2 has credit but misses the point that we as a player have a reductive and forceful view of things||

[ripe harbor]

I also think ||Assuming Dess is the Knight, it would've been a near complete shot in the dark at the end of 2 to call it||

[lusty cypress]

I was at least correct that after the spamton battle ||ralsei was just desperately avoiding an upsetting subject. No ill intentions||

[foggy python]

||i will admit i did not expect the knight to be A Thing immediately at the end of chapter 3 though||

[ripe harbor]

||You pretty much have to run on vibes and 'wouldn't it be sick if-' (it would be)||

[foggy python]

||hype moments and aurarune||

[low surge]

|| I was pretty convinced of at least the concept of the 7 knights theory, Kris making one at the end of chapter 2 to me it was like “well obviously the knight can’t be a single person now” ||

[ripe harbor]

it was surprising (caught me off guard) but not really out of nowhere
because ||main antag force-loss early is a pretty common jrpg trope||

I actually saw one of my friends call it while playing three

[foggy python]

||I still think the knight isn't just a single person, but maybe not all of them running around at once/all of them actively being The Knight at once||

[low surge]

|| I was in a discord call streaming with some friends and we were legit losing our minds ||

[lusty cypress]

||Yeah.
We don't know much of anyone. Susie and berdly are the only non mysterious main characters. Everyone else has some plot-relevant backstory under the hood
Kris won't reveal why the soul is here, why they are the vessel, what they want out of the prophecy, what they know of the metaphysics||

[foggy python]

It is 🙂‍↕️

[ripe harbor]

I think thats got potential- ||we really have no idea about the 'rules' the knights working under, and if Susie is completely off track when she just says shit about the Knight lmao||

I could see like 10 different ways it works and I'll accept most of them. If the music slaps enough (it will)

[foggy python]

||it's implied that susie isnt supposed to do this shit which. ksbd moment||

[foggy python]

||though apparently a lot of people know more about the metaphysics than a cast like undertale's would||

[low surge]

Toby Fox writing the battle music for Scrimblo Blimbo the forgotten pogo stick with the tragic backstory

[foggy python]

||which is. concerning||

[ripe harbor]

we'll get a much better idea once we get into the Shelter

[low surge]

I like all the fan art/theories people are doing of a speculative chapter 7 weird route where the final fight is Susie and you try and Snowgrave her and she just tanks that shit

[golden haven]

||Su-Si-E||

[lusty cypress]

||The prophecy is just the fixed points created after Zoss' endless resets created a hardcoded view of history and the solution to save the world, persisting in a memory beyond the loops||

[foggy python]

toby fox on his way to put his whole SOUL ❤️ into a one-off enemy's track because he liked the concept and didnt want to throw it away

[ripe harbor]

Some of the ways people talk about Susie right now give me echoes of Jadis-course

[foggy python]

||jadis-course?||

[ripe harbor]

||"Surely the main character is right, and Fate holds no sway"||

[low surge]

Befriend 6 Billion Monsters

[ripe harbor]

just the sort of....

there were a lot of strong opinions during the Jadis arc

[lusty cypress]

No
Jadis prophecy is different than deltarune prophecy

[ripe harbor]

true

[foggy python]

||cant wait until ralsei reveals to susie the exact date and time she dies||

[ripe harbor]

but I mean moreso that accepting cases in which "fate isn't real just because" isnt enough can be bitter

the best case scenario is that our choices dont matter because Susie is enough of the GOAT to just

force a good ending regardless

but theres a lot of weight put on that prophecy and its tragic ending

[low surge]

“Kris watch me tech this shit”

[lusty cypress]

Jadis literally saw everything.
The prophecy is "facts" that happen regardless of how you do things
Could be common points between timelines (at least the ones that survive doomsday), but it is weird

[ripe harbor]

and it isnt wrong yet

[foggy python]

|| ❤️ Susie's Idea||

[crystal shale]

Jadis: Holy shit it's Kris Deltarune

[low surge]

Real

It’s gonna happen

[lusty cypress]

Jesus. I didn't say fate was fake
I was jokimg about k6bd while throwing a guess of how the prophecy works

[inland hare]

Susie is gonna throw our heart soul one day

Calling it now

One way or another

[ripe harbor]

its ||an exact mirror of her clashing with the Knight, but its our heart versus Kris' hockey puck||

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/randy-orton-surprised-scared-afraid-wrestling-gif-26482842

The Roaring Fraud and Titans watching as Susie whispers something in Kris’ ear and they start nodding enthusiastically

[lusty cypress]

Like, subjectivity and truth are somewhat themes
Gerson suggests the prophecy can be bent a bit

[foggy python]

||Gerson's SOUL shined upon Susie...!||

[inland hare]

I like the idea of prophecies being unerringly accurate

Too many media are COWARDS who’s like “we’ve gotta avert this horrible fate”

[lusty cypress]

The soul, getting the heat and radioactivity of the sun as it approaches the Knight and titans: Good morning, motherfuckers

[inland hare]

BANISH

[foggy python]

I like the idea of lawyering the prophecy like yup. says here you die. you've gotta change your name, undergo some kinda ego death and transition now

[ripe harbor]

I could imagine normal route has a bit of wiggle room around the meaning of the events ||like Tenna surviving or not||, but it will only not happen on the "Break the game" route

[inland hare]

Most prophecies are vague to allow for some room for interpretation

And then randomly you get “you’ll be thrown through a window”

[lusty cypress]

I am fine with tragic prophecies. Just wondering how it interacts with the metaphysics and themes of the story

[foggy python]

That's what the black shards are for. Kris After Defenestration

[inland hare]

Wiggle room’s existence still means unerringly accurate

[ripe harbor]

its actually why I think ||Susie maybe not being the 'original' hero might not be a good thing for her - I'm more likely to think the prophecy won't be already broken, but instead will pull her into the role the second hero plays||

oh I agree

[foggy python]

the de(fenestrated)ad kris theory rises

[ripe harbor]

what it says will happen will happen

[inland hare]

What happens before or after, the prophecy cares not for

[ripe harbor]

though sometimes I think

it could be a little clearer

[lusty cypress]

We got a lot about the dark, but little about light
Actually, remember how dark worlds distort things but still have an effect on the light world?
Tenna getting cut hurts the TV in the real world

[inland hare]

That’s the morrowind interpretation of prophecy innit

The prophecy is true

Who will fulfill it is up to the air

[low surge]

Morrowind mentioned

[ripe harbor]

yeah I saw a take recently about how the dark world events didn't really happen and something else must've gone on in the 'real world'...

personally I think as long as the dark fountain is there, the Light World is as unreal as the Dark World is normally

its like they flip

[inland hare]

Simulation theory but for deltarune

Truth is the earth was already destroyed by a black hole

All of the game is merely a hologram

[ripe harbor]

Thats how people interpreted Dark World memories and past histories for years lmao

personally I think its a 'dont worry about it'

[lusty cypress]

Which fits how gerson talks of how stories and reinterpretted and rewritten
The ||first two sanctuaries are two facets of the same thing||
So I wonder if this will be used for some fuckery with truth and interpretation involving the prophecy

[ripe harbor]

Ralsei's description of the Dark is also about shifted perception

looking at the same thing, but differently

(though he calls it an illusion, I think thats more his bias talking. He follows this up with "I'm not real + I shouldn't be")

[lusty cypress]

Which leads to the strange retroactive history of dark fountains

[ripe harbor]

Its like a mirror

[inland hare]

Secret histories

[ripe harbor]

and the influence goes both ways (though the Dark Worlds exaggerate)

[inland hare]

History as you know

Is written by the literate

And thus naturally has an intellectual bias

[foggy python]

||OH MY GOD GERSON HAS MORE DIALOGUE??||

[lusty cypress]

When the prophecy glass breaks, it's rebuilt somewhere else
When ||a dark world closes, another can be opened in its place||

[foggy python]

||IM WATCHING SOMEONE ELSE DO THE FIGHT, I DIDNT KNOW YOU COULD MISS OUT BY FINISHING EARLY||

[inland hare]

But anyways I do think that it’s possible in deltarune’s verse to mess with the past in some way

[ripe harbor]

Its basically canon with chararacters like Gaster "The Voice"

[lusty cypress]

The way spacetime is weird in deltarune, and ralsei claims the prophecy was told by spacetime

[ripe harbor]

idk how reachable it is by the average characters in the setting

The Sancuaries have some weird stuff going on with time and predestination, but I feel like trying to actually harness and use any of this is how you end up Shattered Across Space and Time

[lusty cypress]

One guess is that information about the future can't be contradicted lest it become paradoxical. So the universe course corrects. And someone grabbed the prophecy based on a future that lives through the events

[inland hare]

Prophecy foretold

I am guessing trying to avert the prophecy is yeah

What gets you shattered across space time

[low surge]

|| Ralsei’s “what if there is something worse than the prophecy” line from Snowgrave makes me wonder how bad shit is gonna get, especially since 5 seemingly will have slightly more going on than 4 and we already got some reaaaaaaaaal bad shit in 4 ||

[inland hare]

Literal human sacrifices maybe

Good thing we have an eager volunteer

[low surge]

|| Im partial to the “creating another soul inside Noelle” theory personally, if we are assuming the chapter 3 S rank games are to be believed it could explain how “she was used up” ||

[inland hare]

Don’t you know what happens though

||when we combine a monster with a human soul||

[low surge]

|| Yeah, which makes me wonder what the fuck we’d need something like that for ||

[ripe harbor]

I've been thinking about ||how much emphasis is put on the Titans as faceless and mindless||

and wondering if its set-up for one of them getting a will

||or someone putting their will into one||

[low surge]

Oh no

[inland hare]

To ||eradicate the enemy, become stronger, and proceed to the next||

Strength is its own reward

[low surge]

|| goddamnit who let Chara in the back door again ||

|| “guess who’s baaaack bitchesssss” ||

[inland hare]

The power of determination is a privilege granted to the strong. Become stronger and the rest will follow.

King vendrick said that

[ripe harbor]

I was trying to make a shitpost based on the rest of the quote goddammit

"Young Vessel, seek strength"

[inner pond]

late late late reply but i was just about to post this exact post in here, but figured i should do a cursory check to see if it was already posted here since I haven't talked about DR in a while lol

[inland hare]

Anyways

Chara is a real phenomenon

[ripe harbor]

in terms of community reaction?

or real like a real character in universe

[inland hare]

The moment I saw ||you are becoming stronger message pop up|| it was both chilling and my immediate afterreaction was ||how many more of these things can I eradicate||

[ripe harbor]

ooooh I see

[inland hare]

Numbers going up good

[ripe harbor]

I get baited more by out of bounds stuff or 'secrets'

Even when its a really bad idea, I gotta know

not even in the Flowey sort of 'do anything' way, I don't need to see every outcome. But I gotta find the hidden stuff.

also

[lusty cypress]

||Since ice seems connected to stasis, stagnation, control. Maybe trying to break the prophecy fucks up causality and time. People experiencing freezing and missing time. Getting the feeling a chunk of their actions is out of their control||

[sinful crag]

this is amazing

[lusty cypress]

Carol holiday (first one has more images)
https://www.tumblr.com/szivarvanyturmix02/788158387522322432/more-sketches
https://www.tumblr.com/ggolondrinaa/787178030339670016/carol-holiday-they-could-never-make-me-hate-you

[strange cloud]

People saying Carol won’t be sympathetic are truly betting again 1000/1 odds

[lusty cypress]

I love emo Carol

[strange cloud]

“Surely this will be the Toby Fox villain who will be ontologically evil”

[lusty cypress]

You know, Carol could have totally gotten along with Dess actually, even if the latter disagreed with her rules

[strange cloud]

That’s what I’m saaaaying

Carol was 100% a very difficult person and mom before Dess’s disappearance

Stern and cold still for sure but nowhere near this shut off iceberg she is now

[inland hare]

Only actually ontologically amoral character in the verse is Flowey

And even he can be redeemed

[strange cloud]

And even then that’s because he literally lacks a soul and the second he gets his soul back he turns into the ultimate soft boy trying to hard

[inland hare]

Still funny that Kris pretended to rip out their own heart when they were little

[lusty cypress]

Susie: Damn, bet your sister had a hard time with her
Noelle: No, she was a mama's girl. Mom ripped the jeans for her and got exclusive tickets for shows

[inland hare]

Considering she keeps|| katanas around the house I can see her being really into kendo||

[lusty cypress]

Carol could totally be edgy and chunni, and did a 180 after blaming herself for what happened with Dess

[ripe harbor]

in the alarm clock post-pacifist he's even almost a little nice

though he still talks like Flowey. I can forgive him for being literally 8

[ripe harbor]

just a bit of trolling

I still hope a bigger clarification on Kris and the Soul and if they need one comes next chapter

because we are recent, and we are the soul directly(?), so- did they just not have one? Did they have this red one and we're stuck on it now? (Doesn't really fit the intro, or how we are treated)

If they don't need to to survive it makes the Weird Route have some implications

[strange cloud]

I do think they’ve ripped their soul out before, but they weren’t like, always possessed by it or something

In the chapter 4 weird route ||Noelle talks about Kris’s voice sounding different in the past then it does now, but that when they talked to her while soulless their voice sounded the same as it did before.||

||so unless Kris spent all their time with Noelle soulless which doesn’t seem likely, they’ve never been possessed before||

If I were to bet, I think Kris would rip out their soul as effectively a way to dissociate

We don’t know what souls do in Deltarune compared to undertale, but they’re probably still tied to emotion somehow

[ripe harbor]

You think its their soul originally, and we're just attached?

[strange cloud]

…not sure tbh

I think it could go either way

[ripe harbor]

same

[vocal elbow]

||I took that as Kris's voice is different when we speak through Kris compared to their normal voice.||

[ripe harbor]

but it changes the reads of some of the character actions to get a clarification

||If Kris doesn't need the soul in them to stay alive, or be 'themselves', it becomes about their wants and the lengths they'll go to achieve their goals||

[strange cloud]

Yah, but it also means soulless Kris is Kris before we possessed them, so whatever they ripped it out for then it’s not to regain their autonomy like they do with us

[strange cloud]

I do actually still think kris needs the soul to live, I just think they can go a lot longer without it then I thought

[tropic valve]

Does anything specific happen in chapter 4 if you just... stand still and don't do anything as the SOUL when ||it's ripped out?||

[strange cloud]

Even if they can still do physical stuff they walk around slowly and hunched over

[ripe harbor]

mhm

[strange cloud]

Even if they can survive I doubt it’s good for them

[strange cloud]

Don’t think so

[ripe harbor]

and thats a good point

they sleep without it every night, it seems?

[strange cloud]

I kinda take it as like, without their soul they have basically disabling fatigue

[strange cloud]

Seems like yah

[tropic valve]

and they seem fit to cage it

As if it might run away

[ripe harbor]

despite being called 'the container of will' in the first part of the books on the soul,

the one thing we know that uses this 'will'

making Dark Fountains

[timber widget]

||Kris appears to go unconscious on the counter, but they can still grab you or throw stuff at you, so it might be a ruse, idk.||

[ripe harbor]

we see Kris do explicitly without us

[vocal elbow]

Though they do put it back in at some point. Like they have it when they wake up in the beginning of Chapter 2.

[ripe harbor]

But is that because they need it, or ||because they know where the next Dark World will be, and need the soul for... some reason for those? Perhaps just to close them.||

Is it a "If I dont I'll die" situation, or a "I'll tank it because I need it for now" situation

[vocal elbow]

I guess right now that's kind of the million dollar question.

[ripe harbor]

I'll just superposition believe believe both and be ready to believe either if something comes up

That they dont is almost a more interesting character moment for me

||And it ties very well into their scenes in chapter 4 and the 'promise' they made||

either way they really keep the Soul a secret, even on weird routes

when you know its some Prophecy bullshit but you can't prove it

[ripe harbor]

||Its hard to tell if the fatigue is from not having the soul or just the stress of ripping it out||

[timber widget]

It is a little weird to me that, though ||the ❤️ has left Kris' body several times in her presence to close fountains, it's only while banishing the Titan Susie notices it?||

[ripe harbor]

(I think the soul is invisible normally?)

[sharp lodge]

i think they took it out in the past as a way of feeling or being less human

[ripe harbor]

its presence, or our presence at least?, doesn't seem to have a physical tell

if the "think of susie" bits are anything

[strange cloud]

Maybe yah

[ripe harbor]

you can snap away and back and nobody notices anything

during the Susie and Lancer bits you actually come from offscreen

[ripe harbor]

honestly the simpliest explanation is probably ||The soul snaps 'into' a Fountain to close it, and its normally not seen because its only visible once its literally inside the Fountain & starts the glowing. Meanwhile Susie and Kris are inside the Titan, so they see the Soul actually come out.||

[timber widget]

The characters do seem aware that dodging in battle is in some way done "by" "Kris", but

Like, snapping to dialogue boxes is apparently diegetic, but I'm not sure the battle ui is, or if it is, they can't see it

I dunno, ❤️ is weird

[fluid path]

i hope we can find Kris's soul

[strange cloud]

||https://youtu.be/wj05KVkAXzY?si=Eq4lvDxIZp52pGbQ||

NEW ANDREW CUNNINGHAM VIDEO

[delicate cave]

https://www.tumblr.com/everydaylouie/786915715054796800?source=share

[sour mesa]

i love Ralsei there

[ripe harbor]

I'm there

locked in and ready to uncritically believe everything I hear 🫡

[tidal fox]

https://www.tumblr.com/scrollingdown/788312370847088640?source=share

[gilded canopy]

I feel like introducing the concept of Mantling to the Deltarune theorist subcommunity would cause some insane crackpot theories

Because you know the matter isn't going to be taken in the "the hero of the prophecy is unspecial, perhaps even little more than a tool for fulfillment" way for very long, there will be Kirkbride madness before the weekend

[sour mesa]

why'd he say that

i think toby gave us a red herring

that wily trickster

[sharp lodge]

Love that she had no hesitation at all

[inner pond]

if we fight her as a boss maybe her dark world outfit will reference an edgy anime OC she made in high school, like how the NEO body was something asriel designed for a game idea

[lusty cypress]

Oh lmao
Imagine Carol with a katana, dark wings, dressed in all black

[vocal elbow]

So reindeer Sephiroth?

[inner pond]

she has a sharingan and one of her attack animations has her clutch her eye before unleashing its power

[lusty cypress]

Amazing ideas, team

[lusty cypress]

Give her a supernova or meteor attack

[lusty cypress]

"The powers of my forbidden eye can't be contained!"

[inner pond]

"Asgore is really going to do it this time."

less than 45 seconds and he's killed me

[strange cloud]

The fucked part is that he’s right

[inner pond]

oh wait right twitter links banned

oops

[inner pond]

>does nothing for 4 chapters but try to fix his marriage
>wife sleeps with a skeleton while her kid is home

His crashout will be justified

[strange cloud]

He doesn’t have a marriage to fix

He’s divorced

He’s stalking his ex is what he’s doing

Also that tweet was made by a weirdo right wing grifter

Not like, admonishing you just saying don’t give him money by interacting with it

[inner pond]

oh, gross

RIP

[lusty cypress]

One of the guys complaining about toriel turned out to be a guy who looks at porn about cheating just to post about it
And he went on some fanart just to do a whole text wall on how Toriel is an awful disappointing mother

[inner pond]

is that fuckin uhhhhh

crowdeacon..?

who replied to the tweet I was quoting

with a long-ass analysis of Toriel's failings

if so I should inform somebody who posted those tweets on another server which is where I saw them lmao

[lusty cypress]

I need to check again. What was his pfp?

I only know of that guy due to someone's comment on bluesky

[inner pond]

a crow with glasses

[inner pond]

got the bsky comment?

[lusty cypress]

Been days haha

[lusty cypress]

Hm probably a different person then

Wait I replied there

Lemme dip for a check

Yeah different guy

[ripe harbor]

I read it more as pre-transition Mettaton's ideal body, which is a 'broken dream' in DR because supertech science doesn't exist

so he can't get shoved into a sick ass robot bod in the Light World (rip)

[inner pond]

I mean. neat reading. but, like. there's explicit dialogue with the cyber cafe lead swatch guy where he says 'oh yeah asriel made that on his computer when he was trying to make a game' or something like that

[low surge]

|| Asgore is gonna lock tf in and piece up the Knight it’s happening folks ||

[lusty cypress]

Incorrect

[ripe harbor]

they say
The Lightner filled it with their own hope, giving it an incredible power. ...but, in the end, nothing ever came of it.

[lusty cypress]

Asriel made his oc in his own computer

[ripe harbor]

it could still be asriel in the sense of like, half these bosses actually do seem explicitly tied to the holiday + dremurr families

but with the Mettaton hair

[lusty cypress]

Not the library

[ripe harbor]

and the melancholy of '... but nothing ever came of it'

I feel it fits the much more timid Mettaton in DR. Asriel probably didn't throw away his game making ideas.

[inner pond]

that's what I meant

[ripe harbor]

his OC also had giant rainbow wings

(because he's a bit of a dork)

[low surge]

Never beating the allegations

|| I am a firm Dessriel supporter though I’ve been converted he’s still a little gay boy tho ||

[ripe harbor]

this is the chapter 2 asriel PC text

I saw it as a bit of a joke about Undertale

[ripe harbor]

||I think its funny he's textually 3-0 on straight / gay relationship stuff. Makes him one of the straightest UTDR characters for now.||

[low surge]

|| a bit fruity tho ||

[ripe harbor]

have you seen his dad

its kinda funny how the intent with the Spamton Neo sprite is probably that the wings are just pink & yellow, and the far one is shaded in the darkness from the camera perspective
but 90% of all art interpretations go the other way

idk which one I prefer tbh

[lusty cypress]

Betting asriel will come back as a woman dressed in a way inspired by sword magician

[ripe harbor]

cause the whole thing goes purple during the BIG attack at the end, and the colors flip as the sprite does

[lusty cypress]

Toriel: Asriel, dearie, won't you get cold?

[ripe harbor]

I want a beanie and for him to bit wider than his OC from Undertale

but I respect this vision too

[gilded canopy]

ah yes, turn dessriel shipping into yuri

...could also returning wearing that kind of outfit as a guy.

[low surge]

The Holiday and Dreemur families watching their bloodlines end lmao

[low surge]

I too support Azzy coming back built like a brick shithouse like his dad

Would be peak

Everyone expecting goat twink

[ripe harbor]

honestly his mom too

you heard how loud she hit the floor in chapter 4. They build those Dreemurrs STURDY

[low surge]

Truth

[lusty cypress]

Asriel in dark world is a full on tank

[strange cloud]

He experiences twink death at college

[low surge]

He comes back with a full beard, Toriel twitches a little

[ripe harbor]

tony you've done it again

foreshadowing genius....

[lusty cypress]

Consider: Big fem Asriel
She trained with a Dragon Slayer sized sword everyday

[low surge]

True and real as well

[lusty cypress]

She trained so hard she also discovered light world magic, which will be her thesis

[low surge]

Was Asriel supposed to be back for the festival or only probably on the final day/chapter 7

[golden haven]

Monday was it?

[ripe harbor]

I think the festival was only ever inference. He's back 'next week' and the festival is 'next week'

but now the festival is 'tomorrow', but idk if he'll show up then

I kinda got the vibe thats a bit further off from the Epic Divorce Moment in front of the church

[strange cloud]

Dessriel yuri

[ripe harbor]

because Asgore brings up his visit and Toriel goes "yeah we should talk about that sometime" and then speeds off

[strange cloud]

Yah we don’t know exactly when Asriel is coming home

[ripe harbor]

harder to do when its the last day before someone shows up

[strange cloud]

Just some day past the weekend

[ripe harbor]

as an excuse

[strange cloud]

I’m leaning towards after the festival just because with how much that’s being built up

I feel like Asriel also coming home would be a lot

[inner pond]

big fem as in very, very fem, or big fem as in BBW..?

[strange cloud]

Like, we have Noelle and Berdly learning the dark world is real, flower king, maybe Knight reveal, Kris’s soul reveal

Like so much is being hyped up for the festival and I cannot imagine that all happening and Asriel coming home

[gilded canopy]

Oh hey same brain cell

[ripe harbor]

I gotta admit that I still think Dess is the most likely RK by quite a bit
but Rudy would make the ship artwork so goddamn funny

[strange cloud]

Maybe Asriel just thinks his girlfriend’s dad is hot

You don’t know

[ripe harbor]

true....

[low surge]

|| Don’t forget whatever fucked shit is probably happening in regards to weird route. Whatever it is, if the one sweepstakes page is to be believed it’s more significant than in ch4 ||

[gilded canopy]

||Dess RK disproven and all the shippers there for God of Hyperdeath x Knight go straight into crack ship no pause||

[low surge]

That’s what it’s all about

[strange cloud]

Oh yah that too

[low surge]

Honestly never cared much for shipping but something about this chapter has really activated that switch in my brain

[gilded canopy]

None can withstand the power of "I think these cool character designs should kiss"

[low surge]

Indeed

It’s only a matter of time I suppose

[strange cloud]

I can’t wait until we get an official Dess design tbh

[gilded canopy]

I do think that Toby pulling a bait and switch on Asriel's design is a bit outside his usual tricks, though

Making his design diverge from UT removes meaning from the design of Asriel making himself look older for his boss fight

[low surge]

True

I do really like the fan designs though

[gilded canopy]

I don't think any one Dess design is going to get it right but that they are likely in the right direction

[ripe harbor]

I'd like it in the sense of Asriels bossfight, imo, always striking me more as what Asriel as a kid thought a cool version of himself would look like

so to me it looking like kid asriel but bigger, while a 'real' adult version of him looks different

I think it works with the themes

he never got to grow up

[strange cloud]

I mean they were correct she’s a tomboy

[gilded canopy]

I feel like in some way the UT design leans more inspired by his mom than his dad

[ripe harbor]

he does yoink her fit

[gilded canopy]

And like, his genes ("genes"? do monsters have genes) could lean more towards Toriel than Asgore so it's basically 50-50 who he ends up resembling more

And then trans Asriel is the completely madhouse curveball.

[golden haven]

That guy with the pizza meme

[strange cloud]

Exactly lol

[ripe harbor]

I'm honestly more excited about whatever Asgore's up to

and seeing how he's characterized if he gets some major attention in a Dark World

[low surge]

I’m all in on Asgore

I’m biased he was one of my favorite characters in Undertale

|| I really gotta know what caused him to lose everything and whatever the fuck he’s doing with Carol “enabling him” ||

[lusty cypress]

Tall, bulky

[strange cloud]

Thank you berdly

[gilded canopy]

Sol Badguy-type butch lesbian or just muscular

[lusty cypress]

Just muscular

[merry arrow]

I have finished Act 4, I'm now allowed to unmute

this continues to be my all time favorite game

and Susie continues to be my favorite character

[low surge]

From TheF1amethr0wer on twitter

[ashen tide]

https://youtu.be/WRae3TyEFes?si=-fSOjJ3IzXOy-aEk

[low surge]

I’m loving all these mashups

Glad we get a wave of these every release

[analog burrow]

Are Kris and Susie moirails

[ripe harbor]

no I think ones a lizard and the other might be a human or something

[gilded canopy]

how dare you make me remember Homestuck again. I'm still mentally injured by the "it's already here" line in CH4

[foggy python]

theyre some kinda red

[foggy python]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-lancer-blood-bad-guy-tryout-rpg-gif-23144426

[gilded canopy]

god I almost forgot that was in the game

now I will never again feel at peace.

[foggy python]

the bronzed snowflakes

psychic attack psychic attack psychic attack

[white basalt]

the pareidolia that homestuck seems to inflict on its readers is wild to observe from an outside perspective

[gilded canopy]

thank you toby "don't call me radiation" radiation fox

[foggy python]

it doesnt help that tricky tony implants these like dogwhistles that make you look like you're reaching

[analog burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-pyrope-gif-6453690439554893751

hey what’s this monster called

[foggy python]

no

[ripe harbor]

tbh as an outsider I dont get this one specifically

[foggy python]

https://tenor.com/view/he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-it-gif-19335672

[white basalt]

in the case of the above undertale enemy, i happen to actually be aware of the connection; however, said connection seems like the sort of thing that someone would make up in order to parodize the phenomenon

[ripe harbor]

like I know the relationship things are suites

but hes also a spade right

[gilded canopy]

it's the bucket.

[ripe harbor]

is it like a direct quote from the webcomic whats the homestuck here

[foggy python]

buckets are tied to reproduction

also the mention of blood immediately before it

[foggy python]

though that one may not be as strong

[gilded canopy]

the bucket plus the spade is maximized for mental backlash

[foggy python]

unprompted bucket moment

i would not be surprised if noelle was having a katana duel in that kitchen while we wait for chapter 5

[gilded canopy]

...is the Knight being completely black and using a sword a homestuck reference

[foggy python]

i didnt even think of that

i hope not

[sour mesa]

you're overthinking it

[analog burrow]

I don’t think they made her a member of the midnight crew

afaik

[gilded canopy]

my brain is compromised by dark revelations

the HIGHER I RISE THE MORE I SEE

eventually I will cease to see a difference between reality and homestuck reference

[white basalt]

it's kinda like if people were claiming toby's "check it out i'm in the house like carpet"-posting was an allusion to a character called the Carpet Master

[gilded canopy]

my body will never be found

[foggy python]

waiiiit it's just like deltarune

[foggy python]

to be fair that is the kind of shit people could expect toby to pull so

[sour mesa]

i can't believe the Knight is a Sword Art Online reference

[analog burrow]

when the places that you know seem like fantasy!

[ripe harbor]

\

^ dark premonition

[ripe harbor]

also tbf this is literally what people were doing with the Woody stuff right

[white basalt]

if i were better-versed in philosophy, i'd say something clever about the post-structuralist concept of hyperreality regarding this

[ripe harbor]

for my own mental stability

I choose to believe nobody was serious about the friend inside me stuff

[foggy python]

i wish i could be one of the people who waves these kinds of references off

homestuck really is a cognitohazard

[white basalt]

off, you say?

[ripe harbor]

I caught a few Tenna Bob Sparker references before even seeing the T-room which cites him by name as an inspiration

[ripe harbor]

yeah also that one lmao

PURIFIED

[white basalt]

i really should continue that game. maybe i'll get the remake when it drops on steam

[foggy python]

waiiit... say that again...i feel a title drop coming on

[white basalt]

https://tenor.com/ehoTkB8PjFr.gif

[analog burrow]

“Man, those ||titan spawn|| seemed pretty off”

[foggy python]

❤️ Susie's idea

https://tenor.com/view/better-off-rpg-gif-26096784

[analog burrow]

(but fr though, ||”When did you start being yourself?”|| is so ominous)

[foggy python]

it is

[ripe harbor]

It sputtered in a voice like crushed glass.

[gilded canopy]

...Oneshot, OFF, and Omori are like, the trifecta of adjacent indie games I keep on hearing about enough that I should play them at some point.

[foggy python]

ive heard a lot about oneshot when the timer stuff was going on or something

and then uhh

everything went silent after that. never heard about it from my friends or feed or anything

[ripe harbor]

I see its cat-thing sometimes

[foggy python]

Niko!

[ripe harbor]

I've got it, everhood, and Omori on the 'play before chapter 5' docket

[foggy python]

or.. Nico?

im not sure

[ripe harbor]

I think its k?

[foggy python]

Niko!

Everhood is

goood i think? though ive heard

theres a bit that just kinda feels forced and sucky to sit through

but other than that really good

[sharp lodge]

oneshot is great
it got an expanded version that's pretty cool

everhood seems neat but it's story seems kinda weird to me

[foggy python]

yeah it's surreal

or. absurd? im not sure how to interpret it

doesnt help that it's been a while

[sharp lodge]

like ||you have to kill your friends to free them from immortality or something. and they're angry and upset about it but then you see their ghosts or w/e in the credits and it's fine all of a sudden?||

oh surreal is fine with me
i love surreal stuff, like i love who's lila for example

[ripe harbor]

oh In Stars and Time is there too

[foggy python]

yeah that was the part that ive heard about felt like. shit

[sharp lodge]

got stuck on the king fight in isat and dropped it

[ripe harbor]

I played the demo before the game ever released

[sharp lodge]

the characters were neat but the humor was just like, fine, to me

[ripe harbor]

thought the characters were fun, but the combat was blehg

[sour mesa]

ISAT is fascinating as a like, Undertale 1.5

contrasting with Deltarune

[foggy python]

im not sure if i have an interest in playing ISAT

though ive heard very good things

without complaint, too

[sour mesa]

I definitely recommend it

[ripe harbor]

ironically one of the few actual Earthbound Depression games, from what I got from the demo

[lethal ferry]

yeah it's peak "indie pixel-art RPG game about depression"

[sour mesa]

the art isn't that pixelly

[lethal ferry]

the overworld art is

[lusty cypress]

The timeline in which kirito took estrogen

[ripe harbor]

trans solidarity

[fluid path]

check it out I'm in the house

[gilded canopy]

I actually have oneshot but like. since I was mildly informed about the "permanent save file" thing back when it first released I've held off on playing it for years out of anxiousness

but I'll add ISAT and Everhood to my to-play list, my writing needs a good kick of inspiration again anyways

[white basalt]

everhood is a very out-there game; i admittedly haven't played it myself (categorically not good enough at games) but i've seen quite a bit of recorded gameplay. out-there themes, fun characters, amazing soundtrack

[gilded canopy]

I'm down for weird games, I need weirder inspiration

[analog burrow]

Everhood 2 is a lot more controversial, and from what I’ve seen it really feels like and ode to absurdism, which I dig.

[analog burrow]

Before I go to bed, I realized there’s a much deeper question to be asked…

||Would Kris x Berdly be considered kismesis?|| 🤔

[gilded canopy]

[foggy python]

yes next question

[merry arrow]

normally I'd say that any resemblance to homestuck is purely coincidental and solely because homestuck has a lot of shit in it, but Toby Fox literally made Undertale while living in Andrew Hussie's basement, so yeah there's a lot of resemblance. even outside of references, the writing style is heavily influenced by homestuck

[sour mesa]

i am much more willing to suggest shared aesthetic sense than intentional references

[merry arrow]

I cant think of any explicit references in deltarune, but there were a few in undertale

[sinful crag]

its more of a chain in that 'an understanding of homestuck will improve your reading of undertale, and understanding undertale better will improve your reading of deltarune'

not required reading or anything but

theres for sure stuff in undertale that wears its homestuck badge proudly

[ripe harbor]

can I read problem sleuth instead

[white basalt]

tv tropes has already ruined my life, i don't need it ruined again by homestick

[sinful crag]

problem sleuth is a fair substitute for the core analysis, i think

[analog burrow]

Did anyone make a “i remember you’re misinterpretations” in regards to the ||ch4 weird route Equip|| animation or did i imagine that

[inland hare]

Let us equip Noelle

Like how we equip the mannequin

[lusty cypress]

You know, I think the people saying the most extreme things about Kris' struggles/feelings are the ones treating Kris as their doll the most
Youtube recommended some video like "Kris hates the soul: here's why they won't destroy it" with an image of an angry kris and a parted heart
And like, in normal route, kris shows neither affection nor aggression to the soul except when C4 ||it gets close to the bunker cold||
Kris is just cold to the soul, from what we saw. They are afraid of Spamton's situation, yeah, in which a puppet lost movement upon losing his strings.
And kris will cooperate. In the C3 minigames, kris can put the right answers for you

[inland hare]

Only thing clear is that Kris needs us for some unstated reason

Possibly even ||be part of a plan to exploit us for some gain||

How Kris feels aside from that is largely unknown tbh

[lusty cypress]

Yeah Kris is very closed off and inscrutable

[lethal ferry]

i wonder how long it will take for ||us to finally hear kris say something||

[lusty cypress]

Tenna mentions they stopped laughing or crying

[inland hare]

How Kris feels about the situation is very uninteresting as theories go tbh haha

It’s just a small part of the whole motive analysis for me

Motive as a whole meanwhile is very fascinating to me

[lusty cypress]

Yeah

Kris is involved in this, with their own agenda

Kris is not just a victim to angst about
They have their own struggle in the story, and their own conflict between their friends and that "faction" they promised something to

[inland hare]

why is Kris doing any of this

Like set aside how they feel about the situation for a moment. Like why be part of a scheme to ||possibly kidnap their own mother?||

Kris is the opposite of a victim if you ask me haha

[lusty cypress]

Kris seems to be torn between their condition, their promise, the people they care about, and their own exploration of who they are and what they want

[lethal ferry]

there is just a lot going on

[lusty cypress]

Yeah, kris is gonna be a complex character as chapters come
Not a "bad person", but someone in a difficult situation and making some bad choices

[inland hare]

Yeah

[strange cloud]

I actually think I have a good reason, ||the knight gang seems to know the prophecy. Carol is a follower of the religion and the shadow crystals seem to tell the future. Importantly, Toriel is never mentioned being hurt in the prophecy. So I think Kris may feel confident putting her in danger because they believe if the prophecy doesn’t mention it, it must not happen||

[lusty cypress]

Anyway, now that deltarune came back, engagement and emotion bait videos are gonna be a bit annoying
"Kris is in hell and you are lucifer"

[strange cloud]

I mean Kris being in a personal hell for them is still probably accurate lol

Like, whatever is going on they are not enjoying it

The end of the Spamton neo fight still makes it clear, they’re not a fan of being a puppet on strings

[lusty cypress]

Ho boy
Sounds like an assumption that makes sense to make and that dramatically blows up in their face haha

[strange cloud]

For us or for the knight

[inland hare]

For everyone?

[strange cloud]

Probably not for Susie and Toriel

Maybe for asgore

Depends

[inland hare]

Only concern for me is that the phone call kinda talks about ||sacrificing the police, and if toriel was the original target, then they might’ve planned on sacrificing Toriel originally…?||

[strange cloud]

Kris’s actions at the end of chapter 2 do make me think they intended to lure Undyne there, but then it’s just a question of whether she was the target of the larger knightspiracy or if that was Kris improvising to keep Toriel safe

[lusty cypress]

True
Really just being around spamton was scary. They were concerned for his wellbeing, but the text to exit the shop was "flee"
Homestly, I think Kris' reaction to Spamton was moreso fear that the same would happen to them after the soul's purpose was fulfilled
Kris doesn't like being a puppet, but it seems to just be something they cope with everyday rather than intense distress
Like a 5/10 rather than 10/10 distress?

[inland hare]

Wait a minute

Magic doesn’t exist in the light world right

[lusty cypress]

Again, their mental state is nebulous

[strange cloud]

No

[inland hare]

How on god’s green earth is ||sans pulling his space time shenanigan again||

[strange cloud]

You know

Sans

unironically the answer may be Gaster bullshit

Like, we know they’re connected somehow

[lusty cypress]

Nightmare science!

[strange cloud]

Dude literally has Gaster blasters in his fight

[lethal ferry]

he can just do that