Undertale and Deltarune

[strange cloud]

This also includes Dess

[vocal elbow]

||Isn't that why the Ch.4 Weird Route scene got changed?||

[strange cloud]

As in like, Kris wanted to be Dess

[strange cloud]

Eh, that was less the subreddit and more like, general interpretation

Like, ||a whittling rose is hard not to associate with SA||

[low surge]

And I think that kind of fits with the theme of darkeners being tied to items that can be a form of escapism or forgotten things. Goatsona is both, a thing younger Kris tried to do to escape their insecurities about not being a monster and then later forgot and abandoned. Why it’s in the storage closet I’ve no idea.

[low surge]

Now thats interesting

You got more on that?

[strange cloud]

I just got those vibes from them both being so associated with their skill in making music

Dess’s various instruments but mostly guitar and Kris playing piano

They’re two skills that are heavily associated with them and I get the vibe Dess inspired Kris to learn music

But also like, it’s just vibes

[low surge]

It’s certainly an interesting proposition at least

[amber jolt]

😔 victim blaming the nb teenager

damn

[low surge]

Deltarune fans exposed?!?!?

[lusty cypress]

Everyone but the soul is ontologically evil

[strange cloud]

TRUUUUUE

[dense cargo]

A more sophisticated argument as to Kris' involvement and responsibility in the Weird route, which I have seen people here argue, is that insofar as Kris is trying to use us to achieve some goal, even the Weird route is a price they are willing to pay, despite the fact that they hate doing so.

[strange cloud]

Yah like, that’s the worst indictment of them

That whatever goal they have they are still willing to pursue it in spite of the weird route

But also like, it’s not like they can permanently stop you anyway

At best they can throw you out of them until they fucking die

Which like, I guess is technically a way to stop you

[dense cargo]

||They do decide to let us back in, but yeah, not doing so might just kill them||

[lusty cypress]

"For the greater good"
"Greater good. Greater good"
"How could this be for the greater good?"
"Greater good. Greater good"

[strange cloud]

||Kris, Carol, Asgore and Alvin||

[dense cargo]

||Also, I'm pretty sure that if Kris ever decided to like, destroy the Soul we could just reset the save file.||

[low surge]

See that’s a much more compelling and interesting direction than just Kris is evil because it’s fun lol

[dense cargo]

||On that topic, I wonder if Kris is aware we can do that||

||Do they remember the resets?||

[lusty cypress]

||Asgore as the head cop from Hot Fuzz||

[dense cargo]

||Our ability to do so so far has not been nearly as thematically central as it was in Undertale.||

[strange cloud]

I’m willing to bet no

At least for now

They’ve shown no indication towards it that people like Flowy or sans do (and I’m aware they don’t actually remember resets but they do know they can happen)

Though fundamentally I don’t think saving and loading is gonna be relevant to this game, or at least as not as much as undertale

Because determination isn’t tied to it

Determination instead being tied to the dark fountains

[dense cargo]

Yeah, agreed. Iirc the one moment of SAVE adjacent mechanics that has shown up in the plot so far is in (chapter 3 spoilers) ||the fight with the Knight, where the Voice lets you retry the fight, notably despite the fact that the fight itself doesn't kill you.||

[strange cloud]

Yah, ||and we already knew Gaster handled saving and loading since chapter 1||

So like, that just kinda, makes it more obvious I guess

[vocal elbow]

||Save points showing up in the Light World seems implied to be a bit odd and they shouldn't be there. But more likely it's just a convenience thing as you're in the Light World for a good while in Chapter 4.||

[strange cloud]

Actually I kinda read that as like, ||the start of the light and dark worlds getting blended together||

||Or at least hinting towards that happening soonish||

[sharp lodge]

||that could be it, it is strange that save points just kinda show up, especially in the chapter where we fight a titan||

[strange cloud]

Yah that’s my thinking

[timber widget]

||So like, how low HP can you get in the light world now? Do the things that lower it stack?||

[inland hare]

||https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/FYrtAE4DcJ ||

Did you know

That Susie ||rhymes when she’s happy||

[ripe harbor]

Glory to the G-... Administration 🫡

[inland hare]

To be fair Noelle kinda implies their voice always sounded like that

[ripe harbor]

wym characters are more complicated than "literally the devil" and "nothing up with them at all" 🤨

[inland hare]

Kris ||needs us for an unknown purpose||

[ripe harbor]

its almost more tied to The Voice at the start, I'm not even its entirely something the Soul can just do on its own

[inland hare]

||unknown purpose that’s probably nefarious some way or some form||

I actually don’t ||know if Kris actually needs us to live||

Kris doesn’t seem to ||have much difficulty moving around in Noelle’s house without us||

So maybe ||the slouched zombie like movement is just their normal behavior||

They definitely ||seem to have a lot less control of their body while in the dark world though||

[ripe harbor]

its hard to tell if ||ripping out the soul / being possessed for a while makes them weaker for a bit afterwards, like it takes a toll|| or ||if they'll literally continue to deteriorate without it||

[inland hare]

Which might be what they need us for—Japanese ||trans apparently implies that they can’t enter fountains without us||

[ripe harbor]

its implied or shown they sleep without it, right?

[strange cloud]

There’s actually really good evidence for that! In chapter 1, if you quit the game before sealing the fountain instead of the normal load save screen you’ll have an all black one with green boarders, and if you use the save manipulation options, instead of the normal narration you get a clinical yet flowery narration that sounds like our second favorite Royal scientist!

[inland hare]

Yeah multiple times

And ||they run around after Snowgrave undoing everything we did||

[ripe harbor]

and the mentioned ||Knight Fight or Chapter 1 deaths, where they are the ones asking us if we give up or go again.||

||You actually still get some of that clinical dialogue on deleting save files||

[strange cloud]

Yah

[inland hare]

So they don’t have ||too much issue doing heavy exertion without us||

[strange cloud]

We don’t control saves this time, the voice (aka Gaster) does

[inland hare]

Hmm

Wonder if that’s how we can have multiple save files

[strange cloud]

Probably

[dense cargo]

Also, Kris has also never died in their sleep from not having the Soul inside of them. So you know, there is that

[inland hare]

So yeah ||I actually think they are probably fine without the soul||

||but they have far less autonomy in the dark world/can’t force us out in the dark world||

[ripe harbor]

||Light shines a lot further in the dark||

[inland hare]

They also either ||can’t reveal the soul’s existence to Noelle or there’s some conditions in which they can’t reassert their control of the body in the light world||

[dense cargo]

Still, chapt 4 ||"Without... Soul... Kris.... will..." sounds very ominous, even if it might just be "without the soul Kris will not enter the fountain||

[inland hare]

||leaning on the second||

[dense cargo]

Hell of a way to phrase it

||The "will" seems almost designed to throw you for a loop||

[strange cloud]

I lead only the most important discussion in other discords

[sharp lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwNdsozIaCQ

[low surge]

|| I’m glad I can enjoy all the Tenna theme memes now ||

[sharp lodge]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK2-xKKyuoY||

cover of chapter 3's final boss theme

[ripe harbor]

||I wish I had the source for this image its so good||

[low surge]

What’s the translation

[low surge]

|| just started ch4 CAROL IS LESBOPHOBIC?!?!?!? ||

[foggy python]

ch3 ||this boss is really fucking hard||

[timber widget]

(4) ||https://youtu.be/5IJFMCIJKRA?si=6lu7Aw8AD7z7Pr5D ||

[foggy python]

this boss is doing mixups on me

[lusty cypress]

Jellyfish have a body part referred to as the bell, are sea animals, often reproduce at dawn or dusk
Wonder if they are gonna be used in the story's motifs

[loud fulcrum]

Block this overhead, Kris

[foggy python]

• (You feel minus . . .)

[loud fulcrum]

Pop Off (100% TP)

[lusty cypress]

You know, the funny thing to imagine is what Kris gets of the Soul's personality
"Huh, they really like guns."
"Do you need to check everything everywhere?"

[sharp lodge]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1llayjm/rock_noelle/?ref=share&ref_source=link

chapter 3 fanart

[strange cloud]

She doesn’t ||hate Susie because she’s a lesbian, she hates her because she’s poor||

[low surge]

|| most likely it’s just a little funnier, awesome lesbian couple vs evil and intimidating deer as it were ||

[strange cloud]

||I know but I really do love the idea Carol is 100% supportive of Noelle being a lesbian… but||

||She hates Susie individually||

[inland hare]

Yeah more or less

She hates Susie for who she is

||which is that she’s a rude poor person who’s academically struggling and known troublemaker around town||

[timber widget]

||And also messing with her lost daughter's guitar||

[wheat adder]

Ok this is really funny
||https://youtube.com/shorts/fknDwMplquo?si=Kr73yFAOARvx_-qW||

[lusty cypress]

Chapter 5 preview
||https://www.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1lk4bvy/chapter_5_preview_comic_by_junpainter/||

[inland hare]

||Gerson vs sans who would win||

Also ||why is sans so randomly good at dodging||

[lusty cypress]

||From dodging asgore's freeshooter bullets||

[inland hare]

Is his ability also the reason why he’s so good at dodging responsibilities

[inland hare]

Hmm

I actually get the impression

||that Kris is somehow trying to protect Noelle by preventing us from reaching the guitar|| in ch4

[lusty cypress]

Sans' whole vibe in undertale is being tricky. He isn't strong, he just cheats a lot and frustrates you

[inland hare]

Kris notably stops trying to prevent us when they hear Noelle ||tell Susie that she always felt a bit forced to be Kris’ friend||

[lusty cypress]

||The bunker, as Alphys notes, feels dangerous.
Kris probaly isn't working in the Knight Faction just for their own gain, they probably want others to be safe||

[lusty cypress]

Damn

[inland hare]

Yeah

They ||look away from the camera and stops trying to attack you entirely||

[lusty cypress]

||Considering how lonely Kris is, that must sting||

||You know, one reason I thought kris kept the soul early on, was because they felt insecure without the help from it, and how it led to adventures where they could make friends
This was before the whole revelation Kris was in cahoots with the Knight faction||

[inland hare]

Yeah

I think ||Kris is just trying to protect people now||

The most notable|| times they shows initiative in the dark world is when when trying to protect people||

1. To shield Susie against king’s attack
2. ||if you try to stab Susie in the back during sword route, they’ll rush forward and pull Susie towards them to make you miss||

[lusty cypress]

||Sword route is so weird. You get railroaded into the stab right?||

[lethal ferry]

||you can either walk off screen, which leads to the stab at susie, or walk towards Kris and try to hit them||

[inland hare]

I just walked off screen

||and didn’t stab susie||

||susie and I as Kris just small talked for a while before she left me a soda and left||

Maybe it’s because I answered “no, I’m not having fun.”

[dense cargo]

||Are you implying that Kris is trying to protect people as part of their plan, or separately from it?||

[inland hare]

Part of their plan

Well both

[lusty cypress]

Yeah. Many unknowns but they rpobably

||Think the plan can help people. AND want to make sure the Knight Faction's plan is executed without hurting people too much||

I can imagine ||when the plan is going off, Kris realizes it's not as good for people as they thought. So they seek the soul to team up again and try to stop it||

[inland hare]

I mean if the prophecy is true ||the alternative is the destruction of the world||

||pretty much any cost is better than that||

[sharp lodge]

chapter 3 ||was there something weird about the floor of ralsei's room or am i misremembering?||

[inland hare]

Hey btw ||what’s up with the moany dust piles that seems to exist in multiple dark worlds||

[dense cargo]

||See I'm not entierly convinced about "the plan" being the directly related to the accomplishment of Prophecy||

[inland hare]

They kinda freak me out

[lusty cypress]

||If the prophecy can be fulfilled in multiple ways
I can imagine the knight faction trying to control the prophecy but either causing the predicted doomsday or causing a different disaster||

[dense cargo]

||Like all the other weird stuff that reoccurs across Dark Worlds, we don't know||

[lusty cypress]

||Seems to exist in the wastelands. So maybe something that happens at the edge of dreams and primal darkness
We have the dust piles, those swinging balls on sticks, those eyes||

[dense cargo]

||We've only seen these things at the edges of Castle Town and TV World right?||

[lusty cypress]

||Yeah. Seems those and the extra boss stages lie at the edges of dark worlds, where they start falling apart||

[dense cargo]

||Well, Gerson's isn't, I think||

[lusty cypress]

||Yeah. Unless perhaps his window leads into the abyss. He does tell you to listen to a song coming from deep||

||Gerson is also the most well adjusted extra boss||

[dense cargo]

||Actually, the Hammer in the window does take the texture of a Dark Fountain during the fight||

[lusty cypress]

||I wonder if there are "cracks" into the light like there are for the dark||

[dense cargo]

||Though only when's he's talking about Chapter 4 of Lord of the Hammer, notably||

[inland hare]

I mean ||aren’t we just that||

[lusty cypress]

||We know the soul emits light and seals fountains, but only that||

[inland hare]

Hmm

Is there a ||world of true pure light||

[lusty cypress]

||Heaven is probably a world of truth with no inspiration or dreams||

[dense cargo]

||Don't think there's the implication of one so far, but there could be||

[lusty cypress]

||Maybe even just pure code, if we go meta||

[foggy python]

Time for my Morning Routine of getting my ass kicked repeatedly

[ripe harbor]

||I think its just a sign of a place being unused or forgotten||

[crystal shale]

Deltarune Chapter 3
||https://bsky.app/profile/dailytobytrivia.bsky.social/post/3lsluv6hau22i||

Daily Toby Fox Trivia (@dailytobytrivia.bsky.social)

If you wait long enough in the Rouxls fight after being able to LANCER, it will instead turn into the dog button, which when clicked has the Annoying Dog do an introduction cutscene similar to Smash Bros.

▶ Play video

Bluesky · Jun 27, 2025, 2:44 PM

[wheat adder]

Chapter 4 egg room
||Has anyone tried putting this phrase in the right order yet? Cuz I'm considering giving it a go.||

[dense cargo]

The answer I've seen people give is ||Lost where the forest would grow, the children followed the pointed tail||

[wheat adder]

Cheers

[sharp lodge]

||i'm a little dissapointed with that actually. the dog just shows up and then lancer recruits the enemies anyway, it's kinda anticlimactic. maybe that's supposed to be the joke but w/e||

[inland hare]

Deep chapter 3 lore

[low surge]

|| I just beat Jackenstein, kinda fun but it ironically enough felt like it TOOK TOO LONG. I’m assuming that’s just me being bad at the game ||

[inland hare]

|| https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/mVRwmXAaZS||

[ripe harbor]

the followup is ||many people assume the Shelter is 'where the forest would grow' because its just there in the middle of a clearing in the woods||

[low surge]

It’s peak

|| I haven’t finished ch4 yet but I’m still thinking back to the holiday house scene and I really really feel like that phone call Kris was getting has to be a red herring. Hell the Carol stuff at the end too. I just don’t buy that Kris is actually working for the Knight. No real indication (I can think of) beforehand. But why Kris did that and who they are talking to I haven’t the foggiest ||

[low surge]

|| the fact that Gerson is back though raises a fuckton of implications, and at least to me it puts stuff like Dess being dead but revived in the bunker or Rudy dying leading to hospital dark fountain at least back on the table? Even if those aren’t theories I particularly like, they’re at least plausible now. Hoping neither are the case though ||

[ripe harbor]

||I dont think Gerson is actually back in the same manner though, as a Lightner.||

[ripe harbor]

I think ||its basically undeniable they are working on the same team as the Knight, tbh, even if they aren't talking to them directly or taking orders from them directly. & they also could be doing both.||

||The phone call knows where the next Dark Fountain is going to be, the Knight knew about Kris' Dark Fountain (and Kris took specific steps to allow them the ability and time to appear), both hold their punches against each other... Its hard to ignore everything together.||

[inland hare]

Chapter 3 secret ||if you no hit clear against the Knight in chapter 3, Kris signals the Knight to move it along already||

[low surge]

|| yeah Gerson isn’t like back back, some sort of weird third thing ||

[timber widget]

I wonder if it's just a stylistic thing that dark fountains open the way they do, or if there's, like, a second kind of darkness that escapes more forcefully

[inland hare]

||if you make it to the Knight in the corridor sword incident early in chapter 4, Kris refuses to attack the knight for some reason||

So there are some ||direct evidence of them communicating||

[ripe harbor]

||They are at least aligned in goals rn||

||What you learn from 'Tenna' from the SWORD game is also really telling.||

[timber widget]

||Yeah I'm pretty sure the whole "deal" thing is the Knight's idea, that Kris just relays||

[inland hare]

Knight is presumably ||the one who gave the shadow crystals to the secret bosses||

Oh

[sharp lodge]

||also in chapter 3 kris and the knight both hold back against each other||

[inland hare]

Actually there’s some circumstantial evidence to think that the Knight can operate in the real world and is closely associated with holidays back in chapter 2

The ||dog bandits in the police station wasn’t captured by Undyne, but were attacked by “something merciless” from the shadows when they tried to burglarize the holiday mansion||

[sharp lodge]

||the knight is probably the person who ran off with undyne in the light world, there's no time for or indication of a hand off||

[ripe harbor]

I think theres maybe a read that ||'we' made the shadow crystal we get in chapter 3, and its related to whatever 'incredible power' Gaster the Strange Voice was talking about||

[low surge]

|| I was heavily leaning Dess being the Knight but now I’m thinking Carol or maybe both of them? ||

[lusty cypress]

||Could be asgore though
He was a cop, and works there||

[velvet olive]

||Could be Carol tbh. she has a big katana||

||whether or not you think she's the Knight, she has a big katana and knows how to use it||

[low surge]

|| I kinda though the knights “sword” in ch3 looked like a bat ||

[dense cargo]

||The most popular theory is Dess for now. Carol doesn't quite make sense with the chronology of events between her house and the church.||

[velvet olive]

||tunnel, Mayor Money, makes sense to us||

[dense cargo]

See this handy explicatory image

[low surge]

|| unrelated but I really love the atmosphere and music of chapter 4, might be my favorite so far ||

[lusty cypress]

Yeah chapter is a pretty cool world

[low surge]

They really pulled out all the stops for these two

It’s been interesting watching the evolution of the art direction and detail in later chapters

Still love 1, but it’s kind of crazy how simplistic it is in comparison to later stuff

Which I suppose it almost is fitting for a world based on kids toys in an abandoned classroom

[gilded canopy]

In a way chapter 1 feels a lot like it's trying to bait you into thinking its undertale 2. The simplistic environments feel like part of that.

Of course, the actual reason for the simplicity is that after chapter 1 (IIRC?) Toby brought on more help on the project.

[sharp lodge]

iirc toby said he wanted chapter 1 to fool you into thinking itès undertale 2

[foggy python]

theres literally ONE attack in this fucking boss fight that ruins the run

[dense cargo]

(Chapter 3 spoilers) The ||Hall of Swords||?

[crystal shale]

||For me it was the Sword Dash thing||

[foggy python]

yeah

specifically the first variation

the second cycle variation is managable

[dense cargo]

||Yeah it's a pain. I had to guard through it every time until I got the hang of it.||

[foggy python]

the first one is just dogshit

the last part if you react slightly wrong you get instagibbed

[dense cargo]

||Really? i felt the last part was the easiest compared to the majority of the attack, which is really hard to read.||

[foggy python]

||the telegraphs are inaccurate since the actual hitboxes are bigger than the warning lines||

||and the rng has it so it can just screw you over, along with an absurdly high damage rate||

||sometimes it'll give you an open field of safe zones and other times it's perfectly constructed to be unreachable||

[sharp lodge]

https://www.nintendolife.com/features/ive-made-the-equivalent-of-like-2-and-a-half-undertales-at-this-point-a-quick-deltarune-chat-with-toby-fox

new interview with toby fox

it does have chapter 3 & 4 spoilers

[sour mesa]

it's beautiful

[inland hare]

Toby is such a troll lmao

[sharp lodge]

https://youtu.be/fqG747Rs2zg?si=k8QqiW1620LR60C_

Chapter 3 spoilers

[low surge]

Not that it’s happening any time soon, but has Toby mentioned any plans for after he finishes Deltarune?

~~ official Undertale musical ~~

[strange cloud]

I don’t think so

Though I’m deathly curious what he has planned after Deltarune

If anything

Like, I seriously doubt Toby will stop making games

But I’m not sure if it’ll ever reach the scale Deltarune is at rn

Being basically 7 games

[low surge]

Yeah, the way he’s been pushing Deltarune to its limits in terms of gameplay (most notably chapter 3) just has me curious if he’s going to do some less traditional RPG stuff even outside of UT/DR

Plus he’s got his name out there and a solid team

So who knows

Deltarune is crazy ambitious in scope yeah

[ripe harbor]

might support other projects or work more with other creatives for a bit, if this is his big work

[low surge]

Can’t imagine most people doing anything like that

[ripe harbor]

unless theres another strong idea

[low surge]

Yeah, I figure he’s not gonna make something unless he’s inspired

Which is preferable

[strange cloud]

Yah, hes basically dedicated the last decade and a half of his life to making Deltarune. There’s no way anything he makes reaches this scale again

[vocal elbow]

He could also do more music work for other games.

[low surge]

I’d rather a banger Toby project once in a blue moon than constantly pushing stuff out

Deltarune movie starring tom holland as Kris

~~ no, || Chris Pratt || ~~

Conjuring evil into this world

[ripe harbor]

jevil as jack black

[low surge]

Adam Sandler as Asgore

[dense cargo]

Dwayne Johnson as Ralsei

[crystal shale]

PLUEY JOCKEY!!!!!!!

[low surge]

He’d never take that, Ralsei actually loses sometimes

[crystal shale]

Actually wait I have this

[golden haven]

Pffft

[lusty scarab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u29RP3tNA8

[ashen tide]

https://youtu.be/QZ8A63GHLvY?si=9-kusSwt6CxojWTs

ANOTHER BANGER

[low surge]

Ch3 meme || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJEiDNWumv0 ||

[ashen tide]

that last frame lmao

[low surge]

The censors are gonna kill him for this one

[ashen tide]

that last frame is the second panel here

[lusty cypress]

What

[low surge]

MEET N FUCK KINGDOM STEVE

All timer

[low surge]

Ch3 meme

[sharp lodge]

someone did an edit of that where the cheer at the end was replaced with the godzilla roar and it made it even funnier

[low surge]

I need someone to do the YES KILL clip so bad

[delicate cave]

I think I've seen that, actually

...except I can't find it in my youtube history, which means it's on tumblr and search is an absolute lost cause

[low surge]

|| they: are crawling through the pipes |||| I: shouldn’t have done that ||

[foggy python]

ch3

https://tenor.com/view/die-you-piece-of-shit-revengeance-armstrong-raiden-nanomachines-son-punch-explode-gif-25944570

DIE YOU PIECE OF SHIT

im sure theres like

||an invisible mechanic to make it so you Clutch Up with 1 hp||

but ill fucking take it

please just die

[lusty cypress]

C4 ||Considering how he reacts to the statue and titan
Ralsei is the first character to embrace "kill or be killed"||

[lusty cypress]

https://www.tumblr.com/poeticcannon/787599957926477824

[amber jolt]

"Damnit Kris! Where the hell is Lancer!? Is he stuck on the Long Rim!?"

||"So... you're telling me the old man wasn't just Dust in his Grave, huh?|| Ch4 spoilers

"We better start Cracking In on these books about some Trade Baronies for our project!"

"The dark world has a Wolf that's in charge of the fountain? They sure are casting a big Shadow everywhere"

none of you appreciate my humor /lh

[lusty cypress]

Lol

[amber jolt]

thank you

[lusty cypress]

Ralsei pilots a lancaster or emperor with lich stuff
Specially an opcal unraveler

Susie with black beard vlad

Then adds support later

[ripe harbor]

Spamton Neo Grenadier Iskander with Fomorian

trust 🙏

[sharp lodge]

||i'd say more that he understands that there are some enemies that can't be reasoned with||

what about kris?

[ripe harbor]

Everest feels right

idk with what though

They would want a blade

would they get one?

[lusty cypress]

Yup

Sword everest
Kris is a cyborg with an nhp in their system, that doesn't require cycling

[sharp lodge]

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1lm7q60
interesting theory post

[lusty cypress]

The reroll from technophile would fit resetting

[sharp lodge]

||basically positing sans got toriel drunk to keep her away from church||

[ashen tide]

OH MY GOD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t43ZIrsfof0

FUCK OFF

LMAO

[delicate cave]

I love that he got to collaborate with Gigi on chapter 4 (and helped them with some of the music for Solsov, iirc?)

[ripe harbor]

they won....

after people noticed it in the pursuit theme there were some ride-or-die-ers for it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6s6BN0jfv0

cause its been there since chapter 1

[ripe harbor]

Im still off my gourd over Lost Girl / Girl Next Door having short but strong quotes of the secretboss(?) riff tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A16gStXMjU

makes me wonder if the same bit is quoted in ||Raise your Bat||

[lusty cypress]

||Dess as the last freedom boss, if she isn't the knight
Or if knight is a part of her, another part could be an extra boss||

[ripe harbor]

||https://youtu.be/T6UfG77Bwpo?si=7CSxcCX1lI7rvAqa||

||Noelle's intro theme, quoting lost girl, actually repeats the specific bit thats also in The World Revolving & Big Shot another time||

whole family is COOKED. no hope.

[ripe harbor]

huh the timestamp didn't work. Its at ~38 seconds.

||doesnt bode well for either of them imo||

[ripe harbor]

I think it is

right at the ||"Come follow me into the dark, with your heart as the ark which will shine you the way~"|| bit

I cant fully tell if it reaches the shared motif or just starts the lost girl bit 💀

||yeah, right on both lines about the heart, its there. ||

[strange cloud]

Specifically ||the freedom motif, which also quotes the Gaster theme||

||Noelle will be in the depths by the end of this game||

[sharp lodge]

an interesting observation about a certain song in chapter 3

||also one of the lines reminds me immediately of don't forget||

[foggy python]

ch4 anyone have a solution for this one

nevermind

all i had to do was ask and then it clicked

[low surge]

Not really a spoiler but I’m starting to really subscribe to the notion that Susie is the real protagonist/“main character”

[inland hare]

Hmm

Sans in genocide run mentions that he gave up “trying to go back a long time ago”

And that “going to the surface doesn’t appeal either”

Which likely means he views those two things as separate

So where was he trying to go back to

Come to think of it

Sans bullet pattern and ||knight’s bullet patterns are really similar. Almost identical for some attacks||

Probably because ||they are straight up intended to kill you but still||

[dense cargo]

||Which ones?||

||Oh, wait, actually I see the ones you mean. The two types of attacks which use swords, right?||

[inland hare]

Most of the ||attacks that use swords yeah||

||tracking attack with the swords =gasterblasters. Hall of swords = hall of bones. The last desperation circle of swords = last desperation circle of gasterblasters||

[golden haven]

Swords are meant for killing

[dense cargo]

||Tbf, Gerson does that last one too||

[inland hare]

I’m guessing similarities derive from that yeah

||they are just straight up trying to kill uou lmao|||

[low surge]

Finished chapter 4

What the fuck

[dense cargo]

||Gerson probably isn't literally trying to kill Susie, but yeah, they are "deadly" attacks||

[low surge]

What the fuuuuuuuuck

[dense cargo]

What are your thoughts?

[low surge]

Favorite chapter

Which I said about 3 lol

But wow

Toby

[inland hare]

Did you ||slaughter the titan spawn||

[timber widget]

Aint that how it goes

[low surge]

What the fuck do you have in your kitchen that lets you cook like this

[inland hare]

An air fryer?

[low surge]

|| did the purify thing ||

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

Toby Fox writing a story about a possessed enby, a purple lesbian, and the funny goat

[inland hare]

True protagonist of the story of course is Berdly

[timber widget]

He's got the touch

[low surge]

|| Gerson from downtown I legit cheered ||

[timber widget]

Not Berdly, Toby

[low surge]

I have so many questions

[timber widget]

||The "Susie's idea" callback droce me insane||

[low surge]

Too bad I gotta drive an hour to work now

[inland hare]

Get fucking dunked on

[low surge]

Susie is the protagonist I’m convinced now, this is her story and we’re living in it

[inland hare]

Honestly ||we are more of a protagonist than Kris which is kinda funny to think about||

[low surge]

|| Asgore has somehow become more divorced than even Tenna and Spamton were reaching a divorce singularity my man is so cooked ||

[vocal elbow]

Our choices don't matter but hers do.

[lusty cypress]

||Asgore and vergilius in the top 10 loser dads doomed by the narrative||

[inland hare]

Honestly

||even if Asgore is right about what he saw I don’t think he’s gonna get back with toriel||

[lusty cypress]

yes

exactly

[inland hare]

That relationship is like a broken egg

[lusty cypress]

||The whole problem is that he is too stuck in validating himself, and in the past
He can't change what Toriel feels, and he just makes it worse by being insistent||

[inland hare]

Yeah

He’s too self absorbed

[lusty cypress]

I desperately look for a trans joke here

[lusty cypress]

||"She'll finally see I just wanted to protect everyone"||

[inland hare]

Like even if he’s right

About everything

It’s not going to work

[lusty cypress]

||Flower king is fitting. He's imposing himself too much, demanding from others||

[vocal elbow]

Just realized, if the next Dark World is going to be in ||Asgore's shop those flowers that are colored after the human souls are 100% going to be like major characters.||

[dense cargo]

||Speaking of Asgore, what do we think him being "trapped in Asylum" means?||

[inland hare]

Well send him off to the mental asylum for being a crazy person

[dense cargo]

||So far, I've thought it could either be literal, him ending up or having been imprisoned in some way, or a description of his current condition, him being trapped in the past.||

[lusty cypress]

||Yup. Seems they are the same flowers he proposed to Toriel with, which he's desperately keeping alive. Sans and him compare it to Beauty and the Beast, that rose in the glass||

[timber widget]

||I figure it's in reference to whatever deal he has with Carol||

||Her monetary support being a sort of refuge for him, but without which he's doomed||

[inland hare]

Nothing like a captive audience

[lusty cypress]

||Also, one door in his shop os covered by vines
So you can see the obvious symbolism in his dark world will be
Vines strangling everythign, stifling movement and growth||

[dense cargo]

||I have been wondering, if the Dark World is inside Flower King, how it's going to end up paralleling Snowdin||

[timber widget]

(Slay The Princess) ||holy crap The Thorn real||

[inland hare]

He’s got a fridge|| inside his shop don’t he?||

Perhaps ||he keeps some venison in there||

Roadkill ||venison like a true Virginian ||

[lusty cypress]

||Also, the freeshooter theory is unlikely, but fun
Having him have a "deal with the devil" related to his seven flowers as seven bullets (loveliness pellets?).
I just plain like the folklore of the freeshooter||

[inland hare]

Maybe

[lunar saffron]

||sans is the knight||

[inland hare]

He’s the one who taught|| Kris and Catti the occult arts||

[lusty cypress]

||Susie: Kris, why is your dad's court using fucking guns? That's off-theme!
Ralsei: Uh. Monarchies did use guns. Also the samurais loved guns
Susie: We don't have time for this! Take cover!||

[inland hare]

Maybe that’s why ||Toriel prays for him||

[dense cargo]

||I did think the parallels the theory brings up between der Freischütz and Asgore's situation weren't too convincing?||

[inland hare]

Maybe that’s why Toriel disapproves of ||carol supporting him||

Because as much as Toriel opposes conspiracy theories

I don’t think ||she’s heartless enough to disapprove of a mother looking for her lost daughter||

But if Asgore ||is pushing some kind of heterodox understanding of the faith and occult practices I can kinda see why Toriel would be so upset||

[dense cargo]

||I'm going to be honest, he doesn't quite seem like the type? I don't think there's too much of what we've seen of him that could indicate this||

[lusty cypress]

||Instead of collecting his souls, he sells his own? Lol, an inversion||

[lusty cypress]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1lmq6tv/dess_and_asriel_back_from_their_after_dinner/
I get the movie Ted is a classic, but it does have a transphobic joke

[low surge]

|| okay now that I’m caught up what the fuck is this Asgore occult and shooting stuff? ||

[lusty cypress]

||He shot dess then sold his soul to the devil to escape all consequences||

[low surge]

|| this is like an actual theory? ||

[lusty cypress]

More seriously, I posted the freeshooter theory earlier

[lusty cypress]

No, just a thing we were saying here, and I joked about to you

Freeshooter is unlikely to come true, but I just plain like the folkloric inspiration

[low surge]

Okay I figured but for a second I was like “did I miss something” like an OOG post or some shit

Being an elder scrolls fan has primed me to assume someone says some bizarre shit and it’s a dev text that Todd wrote on the back of a napkin in ‘97

|| I was really thinking the prophecy bit was about something bad happening to Susie, but now I think it’s Ralsei? Susie puts emphasis on how he wouldn’t let that happen, Ralsei seems all too ready to accept any burdens or harm towards himself, and it really fits with this whole “burden of secret knowledge” bit. I feel like if there was real danger to the others, he wouldn’t hide it (or at least not as much), but since he’s until now not valued himself, it makes sense he’d leave it out. ||

[ripe harbor]

||I dont think he'd care enough is the thing tbh, at least at the start||

||about himself, that is. He already thinks he's less valuable||

[low surge]

|| well yeah, he wouldn’t say anything about his fate because his whole life has been the prophecy and he sees no value in his life outside of service to the Lightners. But at least if you take the options to encourage him to be himself, it seems like by the end of 4 he’s finally developing his own desires ||

[ripe harbor]

||But I mean, I dont think he'd actually want to avert the prophecy like he says he's been doing from the start if it was just him thats negatively affected||

[low surge]

|| True, though I imagine even then there’s some underlying fear maybe? Like much as he figured it was going to happen there was the naive hope that things could be different still? ||

|| it could easily still be Susie, the prophecy placed an inordinate emphasis on her compared to the other two, she’s had the most growth, and Gerson basically telling her prophecies are bunk. Could explain why she’s seemingly so unphased by it. Dunno, something about it being Ralsei seems to click to me. Enough evidence for either way ||

[dense cargo]

||I don't think she was actually unfazed by it. Seemed to me like she was putting up a brave face.||

[low surge]

|| I really don’t think it would be Kris though, Susie would have been way more concerned. She’s got a a bit of a disregard for her own safety at times but she cares a lot about Kris and Ralsei. ||

[low surge]

|| I dunno, the part about her smile shining brighter than your soul has me convinced it wasn’t just for show. ||

[ripe harbor]

||I'm expecting it to be Kris, Susie or Noelle tbh, I actually think Ralsei is the least likely to specifically have a negative fate alone. Though it might be a group sacrifice deal.||

[ripe harbor]

her ||face goes back to the covered eye sprite for the scene||

[vocal elbow]

||I legit thought for a second that was how that fountain was going to be closed.||

[dense cargo]

||I mean, I think she's determined to keep up hope, but it's pretty clear from both her immediate reaction and her behavior once you're back in Hometown that what she saw affected her pretty bad, imo||

[low surge]

|| Maybe unphased isn’t the right word, she to me at least seems like she’s not as terrified of whatever this is as Ralsei was. I don’t think she was unaffected, but I do think she is genuine in her belief that they can do it. Not entirely brave face. Somewhere in between. ||

[lusty cypress]

Damn
I could have extended the joke further

[dense cargo]

||Yeah I can agree with that. She's troubled by what she saw, but that doesn't mean she's given up.||

[low surge]

|| which in a way is true bravery, being afraid but choosing to stand against it anyway. ||

[dense cargo]

||What I meant by "putting up a brave face" is that the bravado she shows with Ralsei is probably trying to play off the impact seeing that had on her for his benefit. ||

||She's considerably more sombre when she's just with Kris||

[low surge]

|| Ah okay yea, I can see that ||

[dense cargo]

||Like, that laughter was not out of amusement, imo||

[inland hare]

Susie was given the impression that ||Due to her role as a hero and her role in the prophecy, she and her party would be unstoppable and eventually triumph no matter what the adversity||

||that sense of invincibility is definitely shattered now||

[dense cargo]

||But it's also true that she won't just lay down and accept what the prophecy says as inevitable||

[inland hare]

yeah

||but now she knows that she has to go against the prophecy||

||Which is definitely a far more intimidating a task ||

[dense cargo]

||Especially since she it also troubles that sense of inclusion or purpose that she saw the Prophecy as giving her||

[low surge]

|| What’s the deal with monsters bleeding btw? They didn’t in Undertale (sans Sans) and the bunny kid in Hometown asks what it feels like to be made of blood. Is there some significance to when monsters bleed? ||

[dense cargo]

||We don't know. Some people have suggested that Susie's special for bleeding (some people saying she's half-human, stuff like that). How exactly monsters work in Deltarune is pretty vague so far.||

[low surge]

|| Crossbreed Susie?!?!?!? ||

[dense cargo]

||Monsters in Undertale were mostly made of magic, but in Deltarune magic seems to only exist in the Dark Worlds, and the monsters seem to have more "physicality" to them.||

[low surge]

|| wrong weapon tho ||

[low surge]

|| True. Them turning to ashes and the kids comment (I think he asks another similar question at the end of chapter 2?) made it stick out to me immediately. ||

[dense cargo]

||They still do turn to dust, presumably unlike humans.||

[low surge]

|| Not enough to go on, I wonder if that’ll be elaborated on more later. Has to be, Toby wouldn’t include that for nothing ||

[dense cargo]

||It could hypothetically explain why she was ostracized. But there's also much simpler explanations for that.||

[low surge]

|| oh that was a dark souls joke but yeah. I mean initially I thought that, but it seems like a leap. Humans (in both games tbh) are really mysterious and I wonder if they even really function like real humans either. ||

[dense cargo]

||Yes, I do know Priscilla. We do know very little about humans so far||

[ripe harbor]

I think this is just the case tbh

its the same as ||Noelle wishing healing magic existed in 'real life' for her sick father.||

[low surge]

|| In the prophecy, why does it seem like there’s two girls? The second hero, the girl with hope crossed on her heart and “and last was the girl, at last was the girl” ||

[sour mesa]

||Susie and Noelle?||

[low surge]

|| the way the silhouette for the girl could almost be interpreted as a hood? And why’s she got a sword? ||

[low surge]

|| My thoughts, Noelle is too important not to be a central figure. But like what’s that mean? Which girl is which? The rude buster looking thing for the “last girl” would make me think Susie isn’t the girl with hope crossed on her heart? ||

[sharp lodge]

||iirc the girl is supposed to be the second hero, and i do think it's supposed to be susie||

||i do think there's some deliberate ambiguity though, which is what makes the weird route possible imo||

[low surge]

|| ambiguity sure, but why would the girl be the second hero, but also the last one? Pieces of the prophecy are seemingly disjointed and out of order in-game, but that seems like a deliberate choice. The silhouette for the second hero is ambiguous, you can easily read it as Susie, but it it almost looks like a hooded figure to me. Noelle’s dark world sprite had a hood, and the “ice mage” from the ch2 minigame was hooded and clearly a Noelle stand-in. Also Noelle can use some swords, unlike Susie. Cherry on top is the rude buster for their “last girl”. I dunno, maybe I’m on to nothing here but this feels a little too obvious. ||

|| Perhaps bro is simply waffling, perhaps ||

[sharp lodge]

||it could be order of importance, also you can see hair by her shoulders||

||also, in the part with the slides for each hero, kris is said to be the first hero, ralsei is said to be third, and susie is last, making her second by default||

[ripe harbor]

||tbf, the hair could also be robe sleeves. Though I think the picture depicts susie more than Noelle||

[low surge]

|| or angels wings 👀 ||

|| I’ll fully accept crackpot status on this one ||

|| but it’s just sticking to me, I smell something fucky ||

[ripe harbor]

||She spends a lot of chapter 4 talking about how happy she was to finally be picked for something - which I could easily read as a sort of irony, if she isnt actually accounted for in the prophecy there.||

also even before chapter 3+4 Susie was the odd character out in the trio

shes either the true destined protag or not supposed to be here at all, and that seems more true every chapter that comes out

||I mean theres a reason she has the highest stats + central standing in combat, and the main battle theme was named after her. Shes the one whos always pushing to get more and more narrative importance.||

honestly this theory has been around since Ralsei's version of the prophecy tbh

"A Human, a Monster, and a Prince" can describe [you], noelle, and... still Ralsei, I guess

and a lot of attention ||is put on the 'girl' slide of the prophecy, with it repeating 20+ times through susies fountain||

||I think its possible she might've slid into being the second hero though. Idk what prophecy rules we are working under, the roles could be fungible.||

||Which could also explain what happened to the Vessel and why we're in Kris, if it getting discarded was the result of in-universe character actions instead of just underlining the theme.||

[vocal elbow]

||Something that sticks out to me is during and after the Gerson fight. During it he kind of abridges Lord of the Hammer which was based on the prophecy. For Ch.1 it's "The Heroes defeat the King and stop the Dragon". After the fight when Suzie asks which Dragon Blazers character she is (which was based on Lord of the Hammer) Gerson replies with "The Dragon". So who knows, she might not actually be one of the heroes and fitting with Lord of the Hammer's take we do spend a good chunk of Chapter 1 stopping Suzie from doing harm.||

[low surge]

|| that’s also a good point. I don’t think like the prophecy is outright wrong, but I think either there’s flexibility within it or we (players and characters) are interpreting it wrong ||

[ripe harbor]

its also ||pretty clear that whatever Noelle is, shes something important - and is treated as about equally important to Kris and Susie in things like the character namer or old spritework from toby (which is nearly always the fun gang + noelle)||

||Idk if shes the Angel or if she was supposed to be one of the protags, but its probably one of those things?||

[low surge]

|| also just realized looks like at least a big part of device theory is discarded because creating a fountain in a fountain unleashes a Titan. I look forward to Mollys next 10 hour video series (genuinely) ||

[low surge]

|| “maybe things took a weird route right now” ||

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

How does he do it?

[analog burrow]

Ah, ||treading the forbidden path it sounds?||

[low surge]

|| watching a friend stream it, unlike me he is okay with making fictional characters sad lol ||

[analog burrow]

Well, best of luck to them

may they find the strength to proceed

[wheat adder]

||I'm pretty sure Gerson was in this chapter to tell us specifically that the prophecy can be changed through looking at the areas of it that are slightly ambiguous. The second and fourth girls could literally be anyone.||

[lethal ferry]

||the cage with human soul and parts --> the vessel. the girl --> noelle. the lonely prince --> lancer||

[low surge]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[foggy python]

finished both chapters

||I liked 4 a lot more than 3||

[timber widget]

||Isn't "at last was the girl" the ACT symbol?||

||(which also happens to be on the rug in Susie's room in the castle)||

[foggy python]

||can someone update me on asgore killing dess||

[rain barn]

||just a meme/baseless speculation I think||

[lethal ferry]

||1) dess is missing. 2) asgore was kicked out of the police force after an "incident". 3) people theorise that the "incident" is when dess went missing. 4) asgore hit dess with a car||

[foggy python]

tubular

guess i can run with that

[low surge]

|| shit you got a point ||

[sharp lodge]

||lancer's not lonely though||

[sharp lodge]

||iirc its name has rude buster in it so it's supposed to be susie imo||

[analog burrow]

lol nice

[ashen tide]

https://youtu.be/aMdIRDMryRo?si=dpxiPjq1Y41fNxpQ

holy shit

[strange cloud]

This may be

The greatest Deltarune mod of all time

[strange cloud]

I CAN MERGE ANYTHING

[ashen tide]

https://youtu.be/vE50FFmQTJg?si=ScsLok6nTgvLSTMW

FUCK this is also good

[strange cloud]

||Gerson’s real boss theme||

[amber jolt]

(LOUD)
https://bsky.app/profile/beholdmaxine.bsky.social/post/3lhgpq3ofqk2b

Behold, Maxine (@beholdmaxine.bsky.social)

i had a very mean dream last night about a healing item whose effectiveness depended on how fucking stupid you are

Reposts

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▶ Play video

Bluesky · Feb 5, 2025, 1:51 PM

[ripe harbor]

also ||Asgore Undertale kill human kids -> he must hunger for the blood of the youth in DR as well||

also some of the oldest versions of this joke I saw were riffing off this line

||'too much snow, cant see anything' -> clearly ( ) related to Dess and her dissapperance -> what is it hard to do doing snowstorms? Drive.||

it just makes sense

[foggy python]

wait it all ties together...!

[ripe harbor]

yoooo

see Noelle's in that group of main characters

||doomed. shes so doomed no hope for her geniunely at all.||

[low surge]

|| I refuse, the power of yuri can overcome all things ||

[sage needle]

I'm glad that Toby Fox enjoys his characters as much as we do

Those doodles are fantastic

Although maybe doodles is rude for concept art lol

[inland hare]

Nah I’m already sharpening my ritual kris

[delicate cave]

Front-facing Susie is cursed

[low surge]

What is concept art but complicated doodles?

|| The Jitterbug scene was really good, like on the surface it was kinda silly but it really ended up making me mad (a lot more towards Sans than Toriel) but like in the best way. The tonal whiplash was crazy. ||

[loud fulcrum]

Nooo Ralsei is sad even in the concept art

[low surge]

|| Like Tori isn’t blameless by any means, but Sans comes off as a real jerk to me. ||

[crystal shale]

Noelle look anime

[low surge]

We must protect the goat boy at all costs

[dense cargo]

||He did maybe clean up the kitchen, at least||

||There's no more fur in the sink, iirc||

[velvet olive]

||He comes off as a guy that means well but is also. An intrusion, y'know?||

||He's fine, he's friendly enough, he's pretty funny even, but he's In Your House, Dancing With Your Mom, Making Himself At Home||

[velvet olive]

||Like, even this. It's well-meaning but it feels. Wrong, in a way.||

[low surge]

|| I dunno, like means well for Tori sure. But like if I was on a date and my girlfriends teenage kid and best friend came home looking clearly upset (even more so after seeing their mother/role model in such a state), I don’t think I’d double down/invite them to join/keep going after both kids run off. I at least read him as being a lot less trashed than Toriel, maybe that wasn’t the case. Just seems like he should have been the adult in the room. ||

|| he’s not like a terrible person or anything, but that scene colored him differently for me (which was a good thing imo) ||

[sage needle]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTHb2cNT5u3pp-5WZqV/

[lusty cypress]

A lot of thematic exploration
||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QhUl0SV8e4||

[low surge]

Are there any good videos or posts on player angel theory? Especially factoring in chapters 3&4?

[ripe harbor]

I just realized I accidentally used my save where I didn't recruit everyone in chapter 2 to continue to 3+4

I gotta do all that again, again

actually

(its more in theme)

[low surge]

RIP

[white basalt]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw8rT8lmxf8|| chapter 4 spoilers, technically

[ripe harbor]

hmmmmm

||Lost Girl plays in Alvin's office when you find Gerson's Dust-Hammer||

🤔

[low surge]

|| Toby has to be kicking his feet laughing hysterically as an army of bumbling internet freaks lose their shit over every instance of Lost Girl or Don’t Forget he’s slipped in somewhere ||

|| it’s me im internet freaks ||

[inland hare]

I appreciate that Toby loves trolling people so much

[low surge]

|| she probably had some connection to Gerson? At very least he would have been her teacher ||

[low surge]

Absolutely

[inland hare]

Maybe she exterminated him

[low surge]

I’m glad he’s just having fun with driving the internet insane

It’s an immense power

[inland hare]

Turtles after all are often victims of road rage

[low surge]

This image and its variations are a favorite

[vocal elbow]

Community: "Who's Mike?"
Toby Fox: "I'd like know know that too."

[sharp lodge]

i had an intrusive thought ||mike hock||

[ripe harbor]

yeah but you could say the same about her close connection to any of Kris' family, or apparently half the previous Dark World locations ||if you think she was the one rp-ing with Kris with the stuff they brought back||

its a weird place to hear it

cause its not that "a bit of Lost Girl plays in the song", its "The music for the section is Lost Girl"

[low surge]

hmmmm

No clue on that one

[ripe harbor]

||Maybe Alvin himself is working with the Roaring Squad? There is a code for the bunker related to the church(?), or at least thats what susie thinks the Deltarune symbol is for.||

||And it seems like theres a good chance he actually dug up Gerson's hammer between chapters, given his grave visiting dialogue. Normal motivation, or supernatural / prophecy related motivation?||

[sharp lodge]

||it would also explain why gerson's dust and hammer is in his desk, as well as the doubts he expresses by gerson's grave in chapter 2||

[low surge]

|| Gotta wonder how many people are in on this whole conspiracy. I mean if anyone would at least be aware Alvin makes sense given he’s the local head of the religion based around the Delta Warriors prophecy ||

|| which would be what: Carol, Asgore, Alvin? ||

|| I have been wondering, if the knight is Dess is whatever they’re doing with Kris also what’s going on with Carol and Asgore or are these two separate plots that just from the outside seem to be the same? ||

[delicate cave]

||I think it's probably all related. It's strongly implied that the voice on Kris's phone in chapter 4 is Carol, and the knight seems to be the one handing out shadow crystals. So either all four of them are (wittingly or not) advancing the same plot, or Kris and the knight have something on the side to what Kris has with Carol||

[low surge]

|| I guess what throws me a bit off is weird route Carol calls you and talks normally and what she has to say is seemingly unrelated to what (we presume to be) the knight says ||

[golden haven]

https://youtu.be/Ruu3q4EGY-k?si=tYgR8monNRMpC-Bs chapter 4 spoilers

[strange cloud]

I love yuri

[river moss]

weird route been twisting my fucking brain in knots. shits got me in a fucking chokehold

tricky tony did it again

[low surge]

Peak

[restive comet]

Kinda noticing a trend lately of people drawing Kris with black nail polish

Not complaining at all, just finding it interesting

[low surge]

Gotta catch Berdlys attention somehow

[restive comet]

I doubt they're actually interested in Berdley, but they at least like to mess with him

[low surge]

I’m only really here for Suselle but Kerdly is just funny

Berdly at least is on board it seems

[river moss]

ch3 spoilers, art by milkaroos on Twitter

[sour mesa]

lol

[low surge]

This is canon

[lusty cypress]

||First dark world was in gerson's old classroom
Saw a theory the knight was gonna make the fountain in the middle of the library and make it include the lord of the hammer books, but got interrupted by Berdly||

[timber widget]

https://www.tumblr.com/jsheios/787684595959234560

(4 images)

[low surge]

Oh my god these bitches gay. Good for them!

I refuse to believe this is doomed yuri

[hidden pivot]

new deltarune theory: cult theory ||the towns church religion is NOT normal or widespread this is a cult religion created accidentally by gerson and on pupose by alvin using gersons books, carol for political power etc. the prophecy and church is literally just making shit up directly without appeal to a larger organised religion. Its like if george r r martins son started a cult.||

[lusty cypress]

Lol

[lusty cypress]

So this videos posits that ||Kris does not embrace the dark worlds like Susie, Noelle and Berdly, being focused on concrete goals. And in fact, kris may have in recent years dropped all their interests and entertainment. Piano, TV, videogames. Their empty room||

[inland hare]

Chapter 3 start spoiler

[dense cargo]

||You’ve got to give them credit for making a perfectly accurate prophecy on accident though||

[inland hare]

What ||like… Scientology?||

[lusty cypress]

I can get it tbh ||mental health issues and big worries can lead to that
But also, the video posits that whenever kris dives into fantasy, they only see sides to themself they reject and fear||

[ripe harbor]

||that last bit (not Kris specific) is almost why I think the Titans are mindless forces of destruction||

||They're mindless, they're the fear of the dark - they only act that way because people are afraid, and they reflect that fear?||

[ripe harbor]

gods most foolish soldier voices Spamton and ||Jackenstein|| for his friends VA'd playthrough, reaps consequences the next day

ouchi.... ohhh, it hoarts.... my throat, it hoarts....

[delicate cave]

oh no, your ||long||

[strange cloud]

I did the same thing for my friend’s playthrough

Had to drink a lot of water that day

[foggy python]

ch4 ||it just set in that susie bleeds||

[inland hare]

It’s because she’s ||sans undertale||

[foggy python]

wait....

that's true

[crystal shale]

https://tenor.com/view/retro-true-mario-morgan-freeman-super-mario-gif-10222634286928172962

[strange cloud]

Chatroom

Is the name for a relationship with 4 people called a Deltacule?

[dense cargo]

It is now

[inland hare]

why is it Deltarune

when there's 3 heroes

doesn't delta imply four?

[foggy python]

||prophecy also implies four i believe||

[lusty cypress]

Chapter 5 fansong
||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE1cfIyvZSY||

[inland hare]

I just get the feeling Asriel will show up in the least expected way somehow

[strange cloud]

I’m gonna be honest, I do really think Asriel is just in college

[wheat adder]

Same

[strange cloud]

Like, waiting for their big brother who’s away for college counting the days is kinda, key to Kris’s pre chapter 1 character tbh

[lusty cypress]

Wonder if he's able to come to town
Considering how it got isolated

[strange cloud]

And with Asgore trying to do all this before he comes home

[strange cloud]

Probably just a bus

Or a car

He can drive after all

[wheat adder]

I'm guessing that the police tape will be gone in chapter 6 or 7

[strange cloud]

Yah

[dense cargo]

He was supposed to arrive in a week right?

[strange cloud]

||But yah like, assuming he’s in on the conspiracy or whatever, why is Asgore who probably knows a lot or is in on it himself, be so focused on proving himself right and getting Toriel back before he comes home?||

[wheat adder]

Not in a week, just next week

[lusty cypress]

Asriel enters and realizes he can't leave
Straight up dead end into an abyss, silent hill style

[dense cargo]

Right, right

[strange cloud]

||He talks about him normally, there’s nothing really that implies he’s anywhere but college||

[wheat adder]

||And from eggman in chapter 3, we know that the game started on Friday, and chapter 5 will be Monday.||

[strange cloud]

||And we know Kris is in on the conspiracy, and they were still looking up when he got on break||

[dense cargo]

Also, I think this should be spoilered?

||The Conspiracy stuff||

[strange cloud]

Ah shoot yah sorry

Every other place I discuss Deltarune in no longer does spoilers

[dense cargo]

Yeah, but it's still only been less than a month

[lusty cypress]

What's up with the eggs?

[wheat adder]

They're not too important not too unimportant

[strange cloud]

But yah ||if Asriel was in on it, or the knight, or in the depths, Kris would know that. And Kris would know that he wasn’t really at college||

[inland hare]

because it's|| what's left when people forgeet||

[wheat adder]

||Eggman might be gaster. Though I'm not sure tbh. It is interesting that in chapter 3 & 4 his rooms also have these ruddins that talk about how they're forgotten about copies Kris made of playing cards. Like there's this extra dimension of forgotten and undesirable things a layer deep into Dark Worlds??||

||Like instead of Goners, Egg Man has Knockoffs that follow him I guess?||

[inland hare]

dr eggman when

[timber widget]

Oho, but the delta character is a triangle /j

[lunar saffron]

i love og susie

[strange cloud]

Honestly, I do kinda think they’re a joke on Easter eggs in games. However a serious joke that holds thematic weight. Easter eggs are generally unimportant in games, they’re small things that just exist to be found.

But, for the ||forgotten man, whoever they are their existence has been reduced to an Easter egg. They can no longer exist in the light world or dark world. In reality or fiction. They exist somewhere else, deeper in the layers of fiction. Man World where he lives is rendered in the NES style of Tenna’s games, another layer of fiction deeper then the dark world. So the only thing he can do now is be found||

[foggy python]

|| i do have some thoughts about the eggs but im not sure what they mean, especially in regards to being behind the tree imagery||

[strange cloud]

Honestly the more I think about it ||the more I like the idea that the forgotten man is either a shard of Gaster or Deltarune’s world’s equivalent of Gaster, who was Kris’s old therapist. And that Gaster got rid of him for whatever reason||

[foggy python]

||despite how blunt the graphite scene in the hospital was||

[strange cloud]

||the eggs being an “issue” is fascinating to me tbh||

[strange cloud]

||I really do think whatever the forgotten man is, they were involved in Kris’s past and maybe their therapy. The drawing class being something they did to help with some maybe violent tendencies||

[foggy python]

||maybe it has to do with the themeing of the prophecy? dichotomy has emphasis in deltarune and the eggs existing in the inbetweens of chapter rooms could be a sign that there is a "space" within the prophecy to exist outside of the preset boundaries of the delta rune||

||especially given that kris is alone, or specifically without ralsei. ralsei seems to be limited by his knowledge so i imagine he isnt capable of finding the spaces "between" the prophecy||

[wheat adder]

||Tbh I think whatever happened to the forgotten man happened to Dess. I have 2 instances of weird things that happen in game to prove this.||

||The weird maze that you unlock if you insert 1225 points into the gacha machine. Where you find a blue guitar pick that goes through Kris's hands when they try to pick it up.
And at the end of chapter 4, if you backtrack after Susie punches the prophecy, a whole dialogue occurs about someone just out of sight pushing you back and impending you from moving. Which might not sound like much unless you go to the game files and find out that that interaction has a sound file playing at 0 audio. It's a guitar strum.||

[sharp lodge]

||reminds me of how i saw someone refer to gaster as 'cut content as a character'||

[strange cloud]

Yah, ||though Gaster seems to have been reframed as foreshadowing for Deltarune||

[strange cloud]

Yah, ||Dess, The Forgotten man and Gaster all sorta seem to exist in places inbetween the layers of fiction that define the game. Though with Dess specifically she also manifest directly in the dark worlds as the knight||

||could be similar to how we can also find these layers inbetween as a player||

[wheat adder]

Yeah

[strange cloud]

||Honestly, other then the forgotten man I kinda think that these beings can sorta, exist in either||

||Friend is another example of a character who seemingly can exist in this inbetween state, but also exists in the dark world||

||Eram too possibly, but they exist in the deeper layer of fiction that is the NES game. Assuming they weren’t playing the game from a hidden place anyway||

[inland hare]

Listen his name literally spells out serial murderer that’s gotta mean something

[strange cloud]

It was for Flowey

[inland hare]

Speaking of ||Flowey do you think Asgore keeps flowers that he pretends is his family members||

[strange cloud]

He can’t be that far gone right?

Like that’s, extreme delusion

He’s only been divorced for a couple years

[inland hare]

He already talks to his flowers which I guess gotta come to life eventually in some dark world

But listen Kris was locked up in a dungeon for all of 30 seconds and they started eating moss, chaining themself, and scratching at the doors

Maybe dreemurrs just don’t handle isolation very well

I accept no blame for this

[strange cloud]

Kris was gonna eat the moss one way or another

They were itching for it

[inland hare]

It’s the cycle of life

Will you continue the cycle

[wheat adder]

Toby Fox really likes playing with narratives about characters that aren't actually present

Almost like some of them are some sort of penumbra phantas— gets shot

[inland hare]

Wait no I think he does do it

Not like as a delusion thing ||but pretending like a flower is toriel so that he can rehearse his lines||

[strange cloud]

Ok yah that sounds like something he’d do

[strange cloud]

LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER

[wheat adder]

I JOKE BUT ALSO LIKE HOPES AND DREAMS LITERALLY HAS PENUMBRA PHANTASM IN IT AND ASTIEL IS ONE OF THE UT NARRATIVE GHOSTS

I GOT TO BELIEVE

Me waiting for Penumbra Phantasm to come out like a UFO conspiracy theorist waiting for proof of ETs

[inland hare]

Do you think aliens are real in deltarune

[wheat adder]

We're kinda like extra dimensional aliens

Maybe

[inland hare]

Nobody gets shot in this world unfortunately

They get run over by a dog instead

Last thing you see

Before you FUCKING DIE

[wheat adder]

Hear me out

When the roaring happens and the world is cast into eternal shadow, an umbra if you will, there will be a transition period, much like a penumbra you see…

https://tenor.com/view/battat-deltarune-delta-rune-pippins-pippin-gif-5623482696934417877

[inland hare]

Sentenced to annoying dog

Seriously though

What is Asgore and carol up to

Why does she have so many katanas

[wheat adder]

Obviously she studied the blade and politics in school

[inland hare]

Why does Toriel disapprove

Carol can’t be supporting Asgore’s investigation into Dess’ disappearance

[wheat adder]

||You say that but Carol's room also has a conspiracy corkboard.||

[inland hare]

Yes

But im saying ||I can’t really buy that it’s about Dess’ disappearance||

Because|| I don’t think Toriel would be angry about that tbh unless it’s got caveats ||

So what is ||carol supporting Asgore with that makes toriel super mad||

[wheat adder]

||I can imagine Asgore got like crazy trying to investigate it, losing his job in the process, and him probably not interacting much with the family and losing said job probably led to the divorce. DR Toriel does not seem to hate Asgore to nearly the same level as UT Toriel.||

[inland hare]

She’s mad enough to ||splash Rudolph with her juice when he teases her about it||

[quiet crypt]

||I think Asgore stumbled onto a Dark World and told everyone about it, but couldn't prove it. Which is why Toriel is angry with Carol - she is encouraging his "delusions". ||

[inland hare]

||if it was related to Dess I don’t think she would’ve done that||

Because it would be kinda fucked up to bring up “||my ex husband is still looking into your daughter’s disappearance and your wife is helping him but I wish she wouldn’t do that,||” and then proceed to splash the father when he teases her lightly about it

Rudolph wasn’t mad either so at least publicly ||something they were looking into gotta be something inane or plain crazy||

[quiet crypt]

A major reason as to why I believe ||Asgore encountered a dark world is that he has a black shard, which is a weapon you get from beating the knight, and is explicitly a chip of the Black Knife. This seems like a thing Asgore could only reasonably get in a dark world. ||

[inland hare]

Yeah

Maybe it predates ||Dess disappearing too||

[sour mesa]

||are we sure he's not just admiring the sword in Carol's room?||

[wheat adder]

||Why would he call it a shard tho||

[sour mesa]

Player benefit

[lusty cypress]

||The shard was in his hand
And totally evidence, considering he was talking on his plans||

[wheat adder]

||I'm trying to think of other instances in the game where you can insert 1225 into things. Has anyone tried donating 1225 D$ to the water in chapter 4?||

||Someone always donates 3 I think? So maybe gotta try 1222||

[inland hare]

why do all criminal mastermind ||talk to themselves their plans out loud while the protagonist is crawling through the vents||

[lusty cypress]

||Asgore was probably talking to one of his flowers||

[vocal elbow]

||In the Holiday house?||

[lusty cypress]

||He probably took one with him
Since it seems he was talking alone there||

[sharp lodge]

||he might have just been talking to himself||

[lusty cypress]

||He talked of a friend, and said he agreed the shard was beautiful||

[sharp lodge]

||i thought the old friend was carol for some reason, even though she's not there||

[ripe harbor]

||Could be rudy? They have a long friendship. Or 'friendship'||

history will say they were roommates

||Not going to lie, though I dont think its my number 1 pick for who the knight is, pretty much anything that implicates Carol also implicates her husband. That's his room too, and it doesn't seem like he's been in the hospital too long prior to story start. I doubt shes put it up that recently.||

[inland hare]

all i'm seeing here is that asgore was top

[ripe harbor]

bergenckung....

[lusty cypress]

||Maybe Rudy thought Carol just had weird hobbies||

[ripe harbor]

I cant really see much else it could be

other characters ||also act like whatever his obsession is relates to his embarassing step-down from the police, and the story seems pretty well known around town.||

||its one thing to keep looking for a missing person, its another to be adamant that she was kidnapped by faeries or whatever||

[lusty cypress]

Changeling the lost type plot

[ripe harbor]

collect my Icons Shadow Crystals, Kris

[lusty cypress]

Chronicles of darkness au for deltarune

[hidden pivot]

||my thought is they are activly making it happen. down to the toothpaste boy.||

[hidden pivot]

||yeah||

||asgore and catol definitely have vibes lmao||

[dense cargo]

||Is the Angel made out of papier-maché?||

[inland hare]

We are about five days before we turn into pippins

||https://preview.redd.it/petition-to-make-green-pippins-the-theorist-mascot-v0-l3afx28f1k7f1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4ab29338e08562920f8b88730de7ce19c3cff7ae||

(By starleska)

[hidden pivot]

||for all we know maybe||

||or maybe its made out of forsaken childrens soul||

||or just corpse dust and beloved objects and dark worlds||

||there are definite ways to create person like beings with goals via publicly accesible magic||

[inland hare]

Dark world theme parks

[hidden pivot]

||thats what making a darkworld largely is-lol yeah||

[dense cargo]

I wonder if they used the whole thing

[hidden pivot]

||like it doesnt take much in the way of a cult to become a cult in a world where you can darkworld||

[ripe harbor]

I think the ||soul might be born of the dark in some way||

||esp given the aesthetics of the Gonermaker background, which is even reused in chapter 4 near when the titan is born||

[hidden pivot]

i like theres also a very good metaphore/simile like ||between the dark and a black screen we, the player, look at, beyond the world. darker and darker, until you can see the edges themselves||

||before the actual fight I half expected the titan to be the player, or straight up toby fox or something lmao||

[inland hare]

the titan kinda ||looks like lenin before it unfurls its wings I found that pretty funny||

[loud fulcrum]

||Really??||

[hidden pivot]

||it DOES look a lot like a more realistic less cartooney humanoid head||

[inland hare]

yeah

it looks ||distinctly human||

[loud fulcrum]

||I did think initially it was going to be a human head, like some of the faces during Omega Flowey||

[low surge]

Truth Solar Flare

[loud fulcrum]

||We gotta open a dark fountain in the tomb of lenin||

[inland hare]

oh heck if you brighten the image you can actually make out the furled wings

[ripe harbor]

I wonder if the description ||about them appearing in a 'variety of forms' means this is what most titans are going to look like, or if it was only this angelic because it was made in a church-dark-world||

I think I lean towards the former ||because its not like the game is shy about devils and angel motifs in the non-church ones||

[sharp lodge]

https://x.com/RHVGamer/status/1939772748630462720

RHVGamer (DELTARUNE SPOILERS) (@RHVGamer)

holy shit kris deltarune has a wikipedia page now

X · Jun 30, 2025, 7:47 PM

Kris now has a wikipedia page

[clear frost]

Apparently Susie and Ralsei do too

[low surge]

We made it

[white basalt]

not as far as i can see

[low surge]

Soon

[strange cloud]

From @467doggo on Twitter

Kris and the Vessel becoming chill with each other by the end of ch 7

[low surge]

Join forces to beat up Gaster

[strange cloud]

How us and Kris will be moving fully synched to kick Gaster’s ass

[ripe harbor]

he's literally chill tho :(

well, maybe

[strange cloud]

Nah that asshole made a tragic prophecy because he was bored

[ripe harbor]

he's also satan? but his vibes pass muster

[strange cloud]

Dude is a dick and deserves a good ass kicking

[ripe harbor]

he wants to make a new future!

he's a big fan of the doomed teenagers in general

[lusty cypress]

Black flash

[ripe harbor]

though idk if esoteric phantom attention is what you want when you're just a teen

for good or ill

listen he and susie and I were all in agreement at the end of chapter 3 so for now he can be in the squad

[strange cloud]

Look Gaster can think you’re cool but also

I’m gonna kick his ass for making Ralsei sad

All that forbidden knowledge

Look at him, he gave him anxiety

[ripe harbor]

yeah but he also might've made Ralsei period. or not.

[foggy python]

How me and kris will be moving fully synced to kick sans' ass

[strange cloud]

LOL

[strange cloud]

Then he’s a bum dad

[strange cloud]

“There’s save points in the light world now Kris, we have as many chances as we need”

[clear frost]

If kris remembers stuff between saves, the sync is even better

[ripe harbor]

no shot they do otherwise they'd probably be a little angrier about some of that gaslighting I did

[strange cloud]

Yah I’m leaning towards Kris doesn’t remember tbh

[sharp lodge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1380335464602538044/1389396698752880750/Tumblr_l_100520785605803.jpg?ex=68647802&is=68632682&hm=720c8efcce1c5a092a8ddb000e2e68ec5c58756c54959a0395cf4cad6da5c66e&

[low surge]

Legit that freaked me out the second I saw it

[ripe harbor]

its probably supposed to tbh

hmm

looks like the reason 4 got them was more gameplay concern than storytelling

so maybe its not supposed to really mean much

[sharp lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QhUl0SV8e4

chapter 3 & 4 spoilers

[crystal shale]

Tl;dr?

[sharp lodge]

||i like this video for the most part, i think it's a great analysis of ralsei, but i think it gets kris wrong. i think kris cares about their dark world adventures a lot, and their new friends, but that their loyalty is split between them and the knight. it would explain why kris initally holds back against the knight and why they stop doing that as their friends go down, kris stopping themself from saying hurtful things to ralsei||

it's an analysis of ralsei's character

[crystal shale]

Gotcha

[sharp lodge]

it goes into his relationship with other darkners, the other heroes, and his view of himself

[crystal shale]

Admittedly im hesitant about Video Essays regarding Escapism, because they tend to view it in a very binary way

Gotxha

[sharp lodge]

iirc it views it as positive

[south flume]

https://bsky.app/profile/garrot.bsky.social/post/3lst3oxrhcc2u

Garrot (@garrot.bsky.social)

lancer in profile

Reposts

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Likes

2341

Bluesky · Jun 30, 2025, 11:34 AM

[restive comet]

Ch3 spoiler question:
||It just me or does Tenna seem to have some kind of admiration for Ralsei?||

[lusty cypress]

Oh I posted this
I put in spoilers tho
Is it fine without spoilers?

[sharp lodge]

not sure but i tagged it just in case

[inland hare]

I can’t believe Dess ran over Asgore

That’s how she died

This is a joke just to be safe

[crystal shale]

https://tenor.com/view/dess-holiday-deltarune-dess-truck-dess-gif-13719409040713569196

[inland hare]

Hey btw did you know in chapter 3

||the Knight has a specific Frozen animation||

Might hint at future Snowgrave content

https://www.reddit.com/r/WaterfallDump/s/kEvCQgaloe

[ripe harbor]

you wouldn't believe how many of my friends have come up to me and gone

"so whats with this like Truck thing I keep seeing...?"

[sharp lodge]

||isn't that just the roar animation from right before the fight?||

[inland hare]

Maybe

hmm

if noelle is a deer

and that makes her vegan

is toriel also vegan

as she is a goat?

but then how can ralsei eat darkburgers

[strange cloud]

But she makes snail pies in undertale

[lunar saffron]

there's only one goat and that's lebron james

[strange cloud]

SO TRUE

Actually that reminds me

[inland hare]

snail pies sound good tbh

[strange cloud]

There’s been a very good trend of combining basket ball edits with undertale and Deltarune edits

[inland hare]

do you think jockingto will make a good basketball hoop?

random questio

[lunar saffron]

yes

[inland hare]

yes

this must now be included in the prophecy

[strange cloud]

Chapter 3 spoilers

[lunar saffron]

@tomyfoc let's see it baby

[low surge]

Bergentrückung and ASGORE are probably my favorite Undertale tracks

[lusty cypress]

Not sure my favorite above all, but Asgore is certainly in my top soundtracks

[low surge]

Fallen Down and Hopes and Dreams/Save the World are solid contenders

God I really need to go back and play Undertale again it’s been years

[ripe harbor]

You know it just occured to me (Chapter 4) ||Gerson is the first shadow crystal boss to actually talk about 'using' the Shadow Crystal||

[strange cloud]

Huh yah

[ripe harbor]

||Seam has a use for them to make something, but I wonder what Gerson meant by that. It's gotta be more involved than whatever we see when we use or look through it, because none of that stuff would be news to most Darkners and especially not Gerson, who literally already knows he's dead lmao.||

like its weird because they don't seem to have a use for most of the others

[strange cloud]

Yah, ||we know Darkners know they’re objects, so it’s a question of what the shadow crystals really show them. Though, based off Jevil and Spamton I still think it’s that their actions are predetermined||

[ripe harbor]

||If the crystals can actually show you even more strange things and we're just ass at looking through them-||

mhm

[ripe harbor]

which also fits ||Gerson's character of being less concerned with what will happen than the personal meaning you make in the moment.||

[strange cloud]

Yah

[ripe harbor]

I wonder why they specifically help reveal that

||If they are lenses to see other perspectives or possibilities, maybe it starts to highlight the bits that are always unchanging?||

[strange cloud]

Hmm, ||based off the poem the shadow crystals may be the knights tears, and if she’s the most Gaster pilled of them all it could be working off that||

[lusty scarab]

https://bsky.app/profile/garrot.bsky.social/post/3lst3oxrhcc2u

Garrot (@garrot.bsky.social)

lancer in profile

Reposts

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Bluesky · Jun 30, 2025, 11:34 AM

[inland hare]

he's long

[ripe harbor]

||I'm not sure if all of them personally come from the Knight (esp because Seam seems to treat them as just another holder of one?), but them having a connection to Dess and reading her as a 'Fallen Star' is a solid theory.||

shes definitely got a bit to cry about!

[inland hare]

what are stars

[ripe harbor]

||And it also dovetails into their sorta hope&dream theme, if they represent someone trapped in the dark wishing to get out.||

[ripe harbor]

pretty....

prolly wishes right. Or things that light the way in the dark, faintly.

[inland hare]

can we eat it?

Can we touch it?

can we kill it?

[ripe harbor]

yes to one of those

[inland hare]

is dess a star?

[lusty cypress]

Oh one thing

If you try to throw out the shadow crystals

[ripe harbor]

||shes got a ton of glow in the dark ones in her room||

[lusty cypress]

Kris doesn't
Because it feels like throwing away someone's ???

[inland hare]

she's also got an alarmingly large number of ||red, heartshaped objects in her closet||

piled up in a corner like old shame

[ripe harbor]

theres also a lot of glass and glass mentions in chapter 4

[dense cargo]

||Doesn't Carol collect those?||

[ripe harbor]

||Prophecy scenes appear in glass, npcs telling you the "truth lies in glass", the spawn talk in a voice like crushed glass, you find the book probably talking about the Shadow Crystals||

it definitely seems like a thing

[inland hare]

yeah but ||they are in dess' closet for some reason||

stars are source of light

so why are they associated with titans

embodiment of dark

[dense cargo]

||Oh yeah, I didn't remember that||

[lusty cypress]

We know dark/star and holy/lighting are pairs
Star as a glow within the dark
Storms as something that darkens even the day
At least in my interpretation
I think stars are probably wishes, something from from dreams that guides you in reality, or you wish to make come true.
Lighting I dunno. Judgement? Something that is real but is found wanting?
Or stars are meant to guide you so you don't fall lost in fantasy, like how the star cover the eyeless abyss of the titan
So storms could be something that regulates the "truth"?

[dense cargo]

||There's a few in front of Carol's room, and then a bunch in Dess' closet||

[ripe harbor]

cant see the stars during the day

they come out in the dark

[lusty cypress]

My first guess is memory
||You could call a prophecy a memory made before the event, I guess||

[ripe harbor]

lightning and holy as judgement / power tracks

theres a pretty strong musical theming to holy, I think?

[foggy python]

|| stars --> associated with wishes --> the dark world requires concentrating on a wish to make --> dark worlds are described by ralsei as an alternate, false way to view reality --> which could mean nothing||

[ripe harbor]

||given the enemy patterns you see in 4 and how the prophecy itself is equated to playing out a musical piece, every note in place||

[timber widget]

You only see the stars when it's dark

[foggy python]

||also just tossing it out there I don't think the prophecy started to be set in motion when kris/susie first arrived. there may be another SOUL out there, or there may have been another in the past||

[inland hare]

holy/lightning is notably not actually light

[ripe harbor]

so you think Dark / Star might actually represent light and dark?

[inland hare]

maybe

I think light is probably still associated with the Truth per the ending song

[ripe harbor]

theres definitely an association with the holy npcs and them loving light

||most of them talk about worshiping the light-formed prophecy||

[inland hare]

light inside your heart, shining with the truth

[ripe harbor]

||light-formed in that its literally made of light on glass in the dark world||

[inland hare]

||prophecy whispered in shadows||

I suppose shadow only exist under light

[ripe harbor]

well one interesting thing

THE HOLY is a track on the OST

and it only plays at Dark Fountains

[inland hare]

yeah

[ripe harbor]

||though one of its riffs comes back in the Titan Fight proper||

[inland hare]

which is why I kinda don't think that Holy is associated with light?

Holy is faith

and faith and wish are closely aligned

[timber widget]

Followed by YOUR POWER

[foggy python]

I would assume Holy is associated with the dark yeah

[ripe harbor]

I love this stupid track so much lmao

[inland hare]

darkness desiring the light is also a tale as old as time

as old as moths diving into flame tbh

[foggy python]

since the prophecy and church and whatever is pretty much married to the Dark as an agent of change in moving things along