I can hear the MIA ping
#League of Legends
woeful shuttle
raw leaf
Wait is this official or a fan thing?
mighty crow
Fan
raw leaf
Damn
woeful shuttle
urgot main that tracks
lilac bridge
you could say it was a jungle dif
HE DIDN'T EVEN BUILD BRAMBLE...
bronze void
rushing frozen heart is really good into her too, tbf
Not getting brable at all is definitely an error, though
rustic osprey
well we did just lose thx to vi (and caits positioning)
lyric viper
I miss old tahm's w
especially when I ran hail of blades on him
Just the sheer joy of eating someone and throwing them under a tower
I mean, you can do that still now
it just doesn't feel the same
(that and kidnapping blue and red buffs from their camps was the PEAK of comedy)
lilac bridge
gooooooood i wanna play sion so bad
but i can't until i get my new computer
;w;
well i guess i could do wild rift...
lyric viper
š„³
lyric viper
niceeee
fallen notch
aurelion is just a disgusting champion I swear
love getting stuck in an hour long game because he can just hold baron wave with E + Rylai's and we can't do anything about it because his E is literally the width of the lane
rustic osprey
Late game e is annoying ye
fallen notch
genuinely nothing I can do to counter him most of the time because he's incredibly safe and once he gets Rylai's his duel potential is actually pretty scary
I can't even ban him out because now Smolder exists and he's almost as bad
I'm so salty
mighty crow
Yeah you just have to push multiple waves at the same time
And shove in where he isn't
woeful shuttle
or jump him
mighty crow
Yeah as long as you have a tank if he's that late in the game
You can often just engage sideways
Rather than down the lane
But all of these require coordination
Which often doesn't happen
heady raptor
the thing is
if you let aurelion just farm up and scale like that, its very much like letting nasus free farm for 20 minutes
except the effects of Asols farm are much more visible and arguably useful to the rest of his team than just nasus deleting squishies
mighty crow
Yeah, Nasus is like, nmot actually very good scaling threat
These days
Which is kinda wild tbh but like
THere's just scarier things than getting 2shot by a tank
Ornn does that anyway
And brings all his CC
XD
silver heath
Lmfao
mighty crow
He's cool!
Complicated in like, wrapping your brain around
But the actual play pattern isn't that bad
Because each spell does pretty specific simple things
silver heath
Yeah and his really short CDs make itā¦ less punishing to make the wrong choice
I wish he wasnāt so mana starved early
mighty crow
He'd be way too good without it
silver heath
Word, he can already bully or shove pretty well
fallen notch
https://twitter.com/papuchochoe/status/1765956941673611270?t=lMGolHN5XobERa2F7cc...
I keep thinking about this post
god
mighty crow
Yeah Lucy mid is for abusing control mages mostly
But they're kind of out of style at the moment I think?
fallen notch
it's the stealth that created the problem
zealous basin
I miss Old Morde. My pet dragon I had to release back into the wilds when Riot fucking changed his kit.
mighty crow
I miss old morde, when you rushed Force of Nature and he was a top lane tank.
dark needle
I've been having a lot of fun with the new Jungle recently
"New" but y'know
i think the changes with the void update really worked in the favour of the lane, i really like the early game grub/Dragon choice now
zealous basin
True
I still miss the ability to Jungle Nautilus tho. It's surprisingly difficult this time now.
dark needle
Head Empty Warwick
man i got burnt real bad the other day, botlaner gave me a sick as hell insult
League Hate game can be high tier
zealous basin
League is a place where you can farm unique insults
Like, there are a few repeatables. But when you come across an entirely unique one, ouch you feel the burn.
rustic osprey
NOO beat by seven damage
zealous basin
That is payne
heady raptor
why the frick?
lyric viper
blitzcrank coughing like they're in autotune sends me
fallen notch
man, Hwei is... not very good imo
part of it is just first time player but his poke is pretty tricky to land and his CC is similarly kinda strange
I assume they didn't give him a better poke ability than QQ or QW because if they did you'd almost always use that, but the tradeoff is that he feels like he lacks a safe and consistent damage tool, and nothing else he does really makes up for it? He's kinda like Karma where if you miss your poke you're kinda SOL until cooldown's back, but I think Karma Q is safer than QQ (plus empowered Karma Q is ridiculous rn) and also Karma has a root and shield to still do some aggro stuff whereas Hwei's other abilities either aren't offensively powerful or are tricky to use mid-fight
dim tapir
in aram, i kinda resort to poking with QE and EW
considering there's less of a risk to pushing
and EW just cause no wards
fallen notch
He's got a lot of tools but the problem is none of them are very good. I understand why that has to be for his design fantasy to not make him busted, but it's still pretty rough when your poke mage's highest AP ratio is a 75% on a fairly small bodyblock-able projectile
heady raptor
idk how people though hwei was hard
man is the simply the strongest mage Ive ever played (as a support, i dont play mid) free poke, free counter push and poke, nearly free bush checking, insane CC damage combos and lots of mana sustain
dim tapir
potentially this is the expectation difference? they probably was thinking of him in terms of mid poke mage rather than support mage
rustic osprey
I assume they didn't give him a better poke ability than QQ or QW because if the...
The main poke combo in lane is QE into EE. With the EE being used to proc passive after being struck by QE. It's by far his most consistent damage in lane
dim tapir
prior to switching to aram exclusive play, i used to main support role, and yeah hwei clicks pretty fast for me
rustic osprey
Hwei just has a lot of tools to keep track of in mid and not like the easiest skillshots tbh
He is def a good champ tho
mighty crow
man, Hwei is... not very good imo
I think he's very good personally
Yeah he's not really a poke mage, he's a burst mage mostly.
Your highest damage is EQ ult EQ
If you can land any of your E effects it should guarantee some form of Q
QQ for pure damage, QW for range, QE for AoE
EW for area denial, EE for AoE and best setup but hardest to land, QE for "Get off me!" since it's hardest to land at farther ranges
WW is my default, the shield makes you win a lot of trades
WQ is nice for team speed, but is most situational I think
And WE is for mana sustain, I almost never use it outside of lane
rustic osprey
QE EE is def the nicest Lane combo. Also feels satisfying to use
mighty crow
QE the whole wave and EE front or back side will generally full clear the wave, and it's ok if it hits
rustic osprey
Hwei also gets to build horizon which is very cheap and very efficient/good
mighty crow
The enemy too
But in lane he usually just permashoves
And doesn't worry about poking enemy
Control mage more than kill the enemy
Use that to get objectives and control vision and roam to other lanes etc
Like how Ahri usually just uses Q on wave to shove in a lot of matchups
rustic osprey
WQ is nice for team speed, but is most situational I think
Ye. Cause usually if you can you just QE to safety and force em to walk through it to getcha
fallen notch
I was playing him as a support mage, we just got completely out-poked by Brand + Karma
rustic osprey
He def is not a support mage mid
mighty crow
This was... Bot?
rustic osprey
Ah
fallen notch
Correct
fallen notch
Hwei + MF into Brand + Karma
mighty crow
Hmm
fallen notch
I did buy Seraphās first which may be the issue
mighty crow
So that's a lane where your level 2 is WAY stronger, but their level 3+ is super scary
But your shove is way better, so you just permashove wave and laugh
After that
mighty crow
Both groups can burst out the other if they try to approach kinda easy
So it's just a matter of having push priority
So opponent has to deal with minions
Blocking skillshots
And you don't
And you should be able to have push prio in that MU probably
But that requires coordination with your MF and jungler otherwise you also just die to ganks etc
silver heath
man, Hwei is... not very good imo
I'm a Hwei enjoyer
He struggles with some really dire matchups and being pretty hard to wrangle
He's certainly not the hardest (that's Rek'Sai for some reason) but there's a pretty big experience delta for him
heady raptor
Hwei pops the moment anything gets near him, which is his weakness
no mobility in a game currently overrun with hyper mobile burst (idk maybe that's changed) but that's still his weakness I image
mighty crow
Burst is a site lower than it was on season turnover
spice glen
Isn't that because of the item changes (no more mythics) so instant damage is just lower?
mighty crow
No
At first the change that got rid of mythics had way higher burst damage
They had to dial it back over several changes
spice glen
ohhh my mistake then
rustic osprey
The big thing honestly for makes is getting any form of haste lol
Which is why I am a horizon enjoyer atm
And cryptbloom is currently build over void
ocean imp
my friend is insisting on playing Azir ADC, does anyone have any suggestions on who I should play sup to help him?
I'm honestly pretty varied in what I enjoy playing, so I don't really mind if it's an enchanter, tank, artillery mage or whatnot.
ocean imp
I've tried Nautilus, but ultimately he wasn't good enough to engage into the horrendous Sion/Zyra botlane we matched up against.
ocean imp
AZIR as the ADC?
yep
fallen notch
my first instinct is Senna so you have some semblance of an actual ADC, but also Azir soldiers proc AA effects now so Nami and Lulu might be alright too?
ocean imp
Please tell me they are at least upping Attack Speed?
good question. i actually have zero idea what he's doing, or why.
zealous basin
Nautilus is not good partner for Azir. His kit doesn't mesh well surprisingly.
For support? Hmm...
ocean imp
yeah, found that out the hard way
zealous basin
Oddly enough, go Thresh, Braum, Nami, or Rell.
ocean imp
I might just go Pyke, cause he's my most played and he deals pretty considerable damage this season w/ Bloodsong & Voltaic.
zealous basin
Besides, you need something somewhat tanky partnering up with an Azir ADC. (Yes Nami is surprisingly tanky when she needs to be, but I think she's just healing as much of the damage on her tail)
fallen notch
honestly I kinda assume by default that my ADC isn't gonna be great at their job so I pick a lot of stuff that still has offensive value if your carry has a subpar lane, i.e. poke mages
synergy isn't super important if you can individually just bully the enemies out of lane with Lux E spam or something
ocean imp
ah, alright. I don't solo-queue much so I'm used to having a semi dependable ADC, with certain... exceptions like this.
fallen notch
another option, though not one I really recommend with Azir specifically, is Fiddle because he's actually kinda ridiculous as a support
mighty crow
Best supports for Azir will be something that locks someone in one spot
And can take damage
Or someone that can help push waves
Your level 1 push is great, but if you ever lose wave prio
Azir has like, very little ways to fight off or retaliate in the medium levels
zealous basin
Azir is kinda oof because his only way to deter enemies is his ULT and that thing has a long ass CD
fallen notch
Camille support exists now, that might be an option
what with ult lockdown and decent engage
fallen notch
I dunno how it works tbh, kinda wanna give it a try sometime tho
zealous basin
Probably is the most agile support
mighty crow
It's an all in support
Kinda like J4
It needs to win lanes
But trades constnatly and is very good at it
rustic osprey
I mean you could use blitz/naut/trash for some hook into Wall insecs
mighty crow
You want to do it with an ADC that also is good
Ok so the issue with that is that Azir needs help pre-6
Not post 6
He's just going to get bullied to death by pre-6 ADCs
You want supports that make space for him
ocean imp
honestly, maybe just running a toplane bully might work then, just to deter the enemies for a little while.
mighty crow
If blitz hooks an ADC early, the ADC and support probably just turn on Azir
ocean imp
If blitz hooks an ADC early, the ADC and support probably just turn on Azir
yeah i noticed that while playing Naut
rustic osprey
You could also go Full roamer and just let azir farm vs non agressive lanes
mighty crow
Yeah
It'll be kinda MU dependent
But there are lanes that will just farm Azir under tower if you do that too
rustic osprey
Braum prob works really well tho
mighty crow
Camille wants an aggressive ADC
You want like, Brand/Zyra IMO
Karma maybe
Someone who can provide a significant amount of damage back and CC to disengage
So you can burst and run
rustic osprey
Zyra I can see
mighty crow
Until you can burst and kill
rustic osprey
Brand just siphons to much minions I think
mighty crow
Morgana probably decent
I mean, not if you're good and coordinated
Oh, Maokai because Maokai is busted
rustic osprey
I mean ye
mighty crow
Oh this would be a pretty good Shaco lane if the enemy supp is melee
Shaco is the king of disengage supports
ocean imp
Morgana probably decent
I tried Morgana, and the issue is that her Q can only really lock down one person. in certain match ups, it'd be good, but against aggressive laners (and particularly match ups where the enemy sup has good damage), it's a lot less effective.
rustic osprey
Ashe with hail could be decent
mighty crow
Yeah, you kinda just are gonna find it's pretty MU dependent in general
Azir has a lot of exploitable weaknesses as an ADC role
And that in practice translates into a lot more MU specificness
Strong characters care less about MUs
Weak ones care more
*generally
rustic osprey
Against melee sup.you could go grasp bot aswell
On azir
Instead of fleet
Poppy azir could also be funny
mighty crow
I don't agree but I think I've made my case on why I think you need a high damage support with threat range.
rustic osprey
Also if you good you can make most stuff work tbh
mighty crow
I would clarify if you're better than your opponent you can make most stuff work
As you get to the really high end things start narrowing when both players are really good
rustic osprey
And if you are not an otp, cause they do what they wanna do
silver heath
my friend is insisting on playing Azir ADC, does anyone have any suggestions on ...
Thereās honestly not enough data on Azir ADC to make a good guess haha
Iād just try to counterpick the lane
Statistically it looks like itās weighted towards chunky melee supports like Taric, Braum, and Alastair
But these stats arenāt that helpful
rustic osprey
Seeing TF just made me recoil
Trauma from his BS AD reign of terror until a wee ago
silver heath
Yeah definitely the odd one out haha
lyric viper
ocean imp
feedback on the advice from the other day
thresh has beat my best pair with Azir ADC, despite me not playing Thresh often
his kit allowed me to tank while locking down a person in an area, which is good for Azirās damage
bronze void
Damn just played a game with some friends after a while of not playing, got a baron and an elder steal in the same game
mighty crow
Nice!
fallen notch
kinda wanna try urgot mid, any pointers aside from "don't do that"
mighty crow
Yeah~! Don't build titanic hydra.
If you want to make titanic, buy hullbreaker instead
Play it into melee enemies
It's not bad, but it's kind of specific
Medium to long range enemies kinda shit on Urgot
woeful shuttle
titanic is bad on urgot yeah
woeful shuttle
kinda wanna try urgot mid, any pointers aside from "don't do that"
works best into melee opponents, consider taking flash ghost if you're against a squishy who you need to close on
there's a lethality build that's good but volatile and you need to know what you're doing with it
uh
learn flash E
flash E is your friend
e flash technically
you might want to run fleet
actually wait no fleet is cracked atm
you almost certainly want to run fleet
urgot's advantage is that even in a bad matchup it's hard to completely shut him out because of his above average auto range and mid to late game power
so if you start getting behind waiting for BC/HB isn't a bad move
fallen notch
š
fallen notch
itās here
he looks cool but also holy how many champs have they made recently that can just ignore walls
rustic kite
TBF Skarner's is kinda just like a really slow dash
And dashes through walls are nothing new
woeful shuttle
one wallhop on a substantial cooldown isn't that high imo
holy his ult
wombo potential
mighty crow
That's so cool
And yeah it's way slower than kayn, only one way, long cooldown
Only slight steering
I don't mind it
It's nowhere near like talon or kayn level of ignore walls
Or even fiora
woeful shuttle
fiora Q can jump walls
dim tapir
TIL
fallen notch
yeah it's not the most egregious example or anything, I just think we've had quite a few recently between Skarner rework, Smolder, Aurelion rework, and K'Sante (granted his is a long CD ult but it's still pretty nuts)
silver heath
Crossing walls isnāt new for the Asol rework at least
I think itās actually become rarer
Overall
Thereās a lot more champs with āthis dash canāt cross wallsā dashes these days
Like Viego or BelāVeth
mighty crow
Not that both of those aren't absurdly mobile
silver heath
Yeah theyāre very mobile they just donāt get to cross walls so easily
fallen notch
got to play Urgot mid into Gragas
I can dig him, heās kinda weird but I get how he functions
woeful shuttle
urgot favored matchup iirc
if you can react to his dash with your E you win really hard
raw leaf
i like his new colors
also the rock then speaks to me on a spiritual level
"i shall murder you with this rock i found"
also ngl i like dual utility of it
thats fun
oh they kept his w the same lol
love that e ngl
it plays well with the map changes imo
i appreciate them maintaing the ult being a hook but its now dodgable
rustic osprey
Poppy skarner wall pound stunlock š
rustic osprey
that was a good one ngl
dim tapir
is there contextļ¼
rustic osprey
the context would be this
dim tapir
having trouble seeing avengers rep...
mighty crow
Yeah I have no idea what's up
The ones on the left are women and right are men and a kogmaw?
Maybe?
fallen notch
right team got stomped
mighty crow
That's the only pattern I can see offhand
dim tapir
i see el diablo, katana, deadshot, and MAYBE the anthro perseon from 2nd sui squad? is taric supposed to be Flag rep?
oh
rustic osprey
the joke was referencing the state/box offices success between avengers 1 and suicide squad
mighty crow
OH sui squad is suicide squad
rustic osprey
yeee
fallen notch
oh I thought it was supposed to be that right team fed like crazy or something
ah well
rustic osprey
oh I thought it was supposed to be that right team fed like crazy or something
oh they did
dim tapir
is "avengers vs suicide squad" an existing expression?
mighty crow
I have no idea.
rustic osprey
the joke was left team (us) great team who workeed together and was a big success vs right team (them) disfunctional group of idiots who amounted to nothing (which is cap since suicide squad 2 is for sure goated)
mighty crow
Yeah, got that, is it an existing expression or something you made up?
rustic osprey
I would def not post it if it would have been me tooting my own horn at a joke XD
ye pob
mighty crow
Ok
rustic osprey
it just felt so out of pocket/random you know
lyric viper
š
poor skarner
he went from "I am the only hope of my species against piltover's capitalist exploitation" into "I am rock isolationist scorpion"
lyric viper
same here
now seraphine is more irrelevant to the lore
which is some silver lining ig
maybe
I just miss my crystal scorpion that's an allegory for colonial exploitation ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
even tho I never played him
rustic kite
Oh is the new lore out?
silver heath
No I mean his really old lore where he was a rival for Gragas
lyric viper
It COULD have been salvaged
lyric viper
Oh is the new lore out?
I'm just checking info from a league server i'm in
Ohhhh kay. I REALLY like the new charge
it makes him feel like a train
which makes me excited for his legendary
open siren
I have some difficulty telling when the blue one is holding a rock
rustic osprey
I really don't like the skarner scalings
It's all HP based except ult
If they want him to be a jug why no ad scaling xd
rustic osprey
https://fxtwitter.com/minazu333/status/1770010624581366202?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjo...
Good times
It was so dumb
Tank ekko/fizz/Victor top where also wild times
Like
PLS
raw leaf
If they want him to be a jug why no ad scaling xd
cuz hes meant to be a tanky cc jg
rustic osprey
Why do you force us to only yo health items xd
He is supposed to be a juggernaut from what I heard
rustic osprey
cuz hes meant to be a tanky cc jg
Ye but even those have some other scalings
raw leaf
i have no idea what most of the more modern league terms for champs are lol
i just use the old ones lol
rustic osprey
Juggernaut is def not new at this point
rustic osprey
my god juggernaut update was like 8 years ago
It still sucks tho to be pigeon holed this much. Esp with like an attack doeed steroid
mighty crow
If they want him to be a jug why no ad scaling xd
Why maokai no AD scaling
rustic osprey
His q screams for having atleast am ad scaling
raw leaf
but i also like playing durable as fuck cc machines
rustic osprey
Why maokai no AD scaling
Ye but Mao has AP scaling on stuff other then his ult
raw leaf
its why im hoping they make shyv more durable cc in her kit
mighty crow
There's like no way they give Shyv meaningful CC
rustic osprey
Like his q fir example looks so nice eith trinity and the like but
No ad scaling makes going trinity kinda nonsensical
raw leaf
love iceborn
rustic osprey
Ye but sigh
raw leaf
the no fuck you die to your lane opponent proc item
mighty crow
There's so many AD bruisers
rustic osprey
It's not what also all the skarner people want. They not happy everything scales with health only lol
raw leaf
tbh him being all durability and cc very much fits the presented player fantasy skarner always had imo
rustic osprey
There's so many AD bruisers
I get that. But then why make the q for example and attack speed steroid if there is no reason to go any ad
rustic osprey
tbh him being all durability and cc very much fits the presented player fantasy ...
Yes for sure
rustic osprey
Prob is
I am not unhappy
But I just wish there was a lil more variety in his scaling which would make other builds viable
Instead of just going "me go sunfire"
Or the zombie build
spice glen
he scales with HP and there's alot of HP+something else items
if anything, he has plenty of choices.
rustic osprey
I mean I disagree on that but fair
I just wish he was more cho gath item builds than Dr mundo
But we shall see
Speaking of cho the goat has struck
rustic kite
If they want him to be a jug why no ad scaling xd
Pretty sure heās just tank and not jugg now
half gate
ADC Skarner with CC-less support sounds decent tbh
rustic kite
Shield, 4 CC spells, pile of AOE? Even not looking at scalings thatās tank design
ocean imp
If they want him to be a jug why no ad scaling xd
honestly, it depends on if he's good. a health-based jungler could end up being very fun.
rustic osprey
Pretty sure heās just tank and not jugg now
Ye makes me a bit sad
Skarner always had whacky builds and I kinda loved it
raw leaf
There's like no way they give Shyv meaningful CC
i mean when they talked about her rework it was sorta implied they are considering at least giving her some amount of cc
at least imo
i just hope we get brick shithouse visual redesign of her ngl
raw leaf
oh i love that
rain girder
Skarner rework seems neat
Passive: Autos and abilities apply Quaking to enemies. Enemies with 3 stacks of Quaking take % Max HP damage over time
Q: His next 3 autos are empowered with bonus damage, range, and attack speed. His 3rd attack deals bonus damage and he can recast to throw a rock that deals that same damage and slows.
W: Shield + Shockwave that slows
E: A charge that grabs champions or large monsters, this ignores terrain, and pulls them to the end, stunning them if they collide with terrain.
R: He charges up for a moment and stabs in a big AOE in front of him, grabbing and suppressing up to 3 enemy champs, gaining movement speed and basically grounding him.
You can't Q, E, or Flash while grabbing people
open siren
Train Ornn's recall is a little chugga chugga motion
mighty crow
Yeah
It means they'll kill steal less too
Before if the tick was on you it was almost literally impossible to have anyone else get the kill
They had to kill you from above execute range with a single source of damage
Now as long as you take all the damage that would kill you within a second, the execute never actually triggers
You just die normally
rustic osprey
it was v funny reading that lol esports betting sites disabled betting on quadra and pentakills with a smolder in the game
mighty crow
It doesn't matter much mechanically except it will show smolder getting kills less that other people do all the work for
open siren
mighty crow
They've been pretty clear they don't want senna being a strong adc
Every time they buff her farming soul rate they nerf it again quickly lmao
spice glen
holy hell good. She is one of the most easy to snow ball champs if you just farm
rustic osprey
ye do be like that
raw leaf
tbh in regard to skarner im glad he seems like he can sorta flex between jg and top now
at leat better than he use to imo
also the kit just feels more fun to me lol
mighty crow
Oh is it actually out now?
raw leaf
its on pbe
im mostly talking from video ive seen of it
cuz i usually can parse like if ill enjoy a league character without needing to directly touch it lol
abstract rune
clown town...
rustic kite
I swear riot just toggles this every 4-8 months
Maybe one day they'll pick a number in the middle
silver heath
It's so weird to me that they haven't!
It's either "Senna is weak we need her to be viable ADC" or "Senna is strong we need her to be hardstuck support"
raw leaf
did they remove the hp scalings then or?
spice glen
I think they gave those scalings ontop of it.
raw leaf
ah
spice glen
kinda sucks they did but eh
rustic osprey
you can still go full tank
spice glen
It's not going full tank, it's now he had the ability to just easily build any HP items.
Now you have to consider building items with AD and AP.
rustic osprey
is that a bad thing?
spice glen
Sorta. Before if he only scaled with HP, you only had to worry about building HP items.
But now it's do you wanna scale with AD or AP, and the respective ability. Meaning super burst builds are gonna be the thing people might run with
mighty crow
Very unlikely.
rustic osprey
with this ad scaling you aint gonna run lethality skarner XD
this open up bruiser builds
mighty crow
They have a little bit of AD and a little bit of AP scaling
rustic osprey
and full tank is still an option
mighty crow
It just makes you not feel bad to build bruiser items
spice glen
You say that but people will shove lethality into it hard
mighty crow
Ok and they'll lose
Who cares
Like people can shove lethality into Ahri too
Doesn't make it good
spice glen
Why are you being kinda aggressive over it?
mighty crow
It feels like you're the one being aggressive?
spice glen
noo no I did not mean to come off that way
mighty crow
We can just stop interacting over it.
But it felt like you were being very doomer-y about it
Which is bad vibes
spice glen
My issue is he's got a good chunk of CC, no?
spice glen
Doesn't matter if it's slow
mighty crow
And relies on being able to position aggressively
Without a lot of mobility tools
So if you don't have survivability
spice glen
in the current meta we have movement speed out the wazoo
mighty crow
You just die without doing anything
woeful shuttle
he doesn't really have that much CC
it's mostly slows with one instance of hard CC and his ult which is conditional and more of a teamfight tool
I highly doubt you're going to see a particularly good lethality skarner build
woeful shuttle
I mean, if people are really new then yeah maybe intro bots might be a problem
but also
uh
silver heath
Ziggs Bot intro getting 13 kills is hilarious
rustic osprey
LeBron bot
abstract rune
This is just the unrestrained power of Ziggs
open siren
Looking at it... uhhhh yeah, turns out that the new players didn't buy anything
Turns out buying items helps you win fights
rustic osprey
I just saw that lmao
spice glen
I am struggling to embedd this one goofy ass tiktok in but at this point I might just give up.
open siren
Honestly every time I try league recently I have one match, people are shit online, and I drop it. Just feels really sucky.
silver heath
Thatās frustrating for sure
open siren
literally got "Look at this dude's items" in the last five seconds of the game and it's like... okay either talk to me earlier or shut the fuck up because I'm trying to deal with the fact there are no tanks on our team
silver heath
I've evolved a very thick skin now from jungle, so I tend to just read any sort of comment like that as a way to defer blame and bad feelings for their own play
open siren
It's one of those things where it doesn't really upset me I just see it roll my eyes and don't want to play the game any more because this was fucking ARAM
If someone's gonna bitch in ARAM it's just toxic
mighty crow
You might consider just turning off chat tbh
rustic osprey
crabbing all over the place
fallen notch
Urgot mid experience has been pretty alright; so far it's mostly either "stomp on a bruiser-y melee pick" or "farm out mid and try not to get poked out vs. mages." Sucks that I can't do much early into mages because poke but that's not the worst problem to have. My big worry is going into something like Zed where he's so mobile and his poke is so strong that he can be way more aggressive than something like Lux or Ahri
also I keep whiffing my E --> ult which is embarrassing so I guess I need to throw it immediately after landing E
rustic osprey
Against zed you do almost always have a free flip aswell when he ults you
mighty crow
Yeah, he always shows up in the same place
When he ults
And can't go back for... I think half a second?
fallen notch
Sure, but that relies on him miscalculating the amount of damage needed to kill me, no? If the Zed player is any good I'm imagining he just pokes me down to a point where I don't survive the first part of ult
mighty crow
No like, you can time your E to catch him the instant he appears
So he can't cast spells after appearing
I mean, until after you've flipped him
fallen notch
Oh, like when he swaps position with clone?
rustic osprey
Zed will appear behind you when he ults you and reappears
mighty crow
He always appears behind you
In the same place
So you can just E that spot when he disappears
And your E will catch him as he phases back in
Before he can cast anything
Like, if he has poked you out enough, you still might be dead
fallen notch
Right, but my concern is that Zed can probably just poke me down to a point where that first part of ult kills me before he phases back in, yeah
mighty crow
I'm not sure what you mean by first part
It does like, 100 damage or something unless he damages you during it
fallen notch
Oh, I apparently don't understand how Zed ult works then
mighty crow
Ok, Zed ult is a damage multiplier. It does more damage the more damage he does to you while it's active.
Which is all applied in the "pop"
So if you dodge his damage after he ults, it does almost nothing.
rustic osprey
Imagin like a Yone E that "stores" more dmg
mighty crow
Specifically it's... 100% of his total AD, +25/40/55% of the damage he does to you during the 3 seconds you're marked
fallen notch
right, yes, I'm with you now, I thought it did damage (or more than just like 100 damage) and then stored damage taken on top of it
mighty crow
But 100% of his AD is not a lot
So if you can avoid taking a lot of damage from him during his ult
Say, by hitting him with E to CC him and then flashing when he casts spells immediately after to dodge or something
It does basically nothing.
Apparently they buffed the AD ratio recently, it used to only be 65% of his total AD
Less than an auto attack, lmao
fallen notch
I follow. In that case I guess it's just another poke mage matchup, just slightly more annoying because Zed poke is a pain if they're any good at the champion
mighty crow
Nod The big thing I'll note
fallen notch
unless they mess up and ult me while I've got enough health to take the fight, but that's not really my decision
mighty crow
Is when he Ws
He's REALLY vulnerable for a while
You can often bully him after he does it if he doesn't back off
And as urgot you absolutely win any all ins when you're evenish unless he gets pretty far ahead
People talk about Zed poke being good, but it's also really high commitment
fallen notch
I don't see how I'm supposed to trade with him unless he makes the mistake of going in, though
I guess he has to auto creeps in earlier stages and that's maybe a good time for it
mighty crow
Yeah
Like if he Ws
He can't farm until his W is up again
Is what I'm saying
You shouldn't let him
silver heath
unless they mess up and ult me while I've got enough health to take the fight, b...
Really if you end up in the situation where Zed can just ult you, eat the E CC and kill you you probably needed to have recalled already or Zed doesn't know he can do that then
woeful shuttle
Right, but my concern is that Zed can probably just poke me down to a point wher...
run fleet and second wind if you're taking that much poke
also if zed is poking you that much he's burning energy and cooldowns that he could be using to contest the wave
and if he's not saving his cooldowns for the wave you can either fight him when he walks up to CS or get ahead on wave state to the point where recalling due to poke doesn't put you behind
woeful shuttle
also I keep whiffing my E --> ult which is embarrassing so I guess I need to thr...
urgot ult has a half second windup
so you need either good prediction and an opponent who can't/won't dodge or CC
rustic osprey
i dont see why sund would be better than cleaver
mighty crow
Yeah, you don't wanna make the hp tiamat
But uh
IDK you might just auto normally
For the sundered proc
Optimal Urgot DPS DOES involve weaving normal autos in
stray mason
Twitter
woeful shuttle
I don't know if low prio is actually a good solution
Consigning people to the cesspit isn't a great concept to me because from what I've heard from dota it really, really sucks to get out of low prio
mighty crow
Low prio historically has big retention issues iirc
spice glen
it wouldn't probably work on PC because you'd just make a new account.
Mobile is...I think maybe a bit easier to manage?
silver heath
Low Prio Gulags are bad for retention yeah
abstract rune
it wouldn't probably work on PC because you'd just make a new account.
Mobile is...
Not by much
it's still all Riot account based
raw axle
Well, I guess it's also not like Dota doesn't have very good retention
Some of the best retention on Steam, in fact! Just also hilariously low new users
Also wow, that's even rougher than Dotas. You only need two wins to get out of dota low prio
fallen notch
so Zac support; how would you do it? Do you just kinda build like normal or would there be some kind of secret sauce?
Like, donāt get Sunfire, getā¦ idk, Knightās Vow?
Warmog?
mighty crow
Not warmogs
But yeah tank support items
Build like you're Leona basically
Zac is basically just Leona with better engage and better disengage and better tank atm IIRC
A lot of the older like, less flexible supports are just outcompeted by bruisers pretending to be supports atm
rustic osprey
Camille moment
paper crown
One for all's live currently. What are some fun ideas?
fallen notch
Heimerdinger, Karthus, Kogmaw, Sion, and Teemo are solid options imo. If you can get solo queue people to not completely feed their lanes, I think Evelynn and Nunu could also be fun
silver heath
Braum is funny
ocean imp
One for all's live currently. What are some fun ideas?
i've enjoyed Lux with the amount of Rs you can cast on one rooted target
Miss Fortune was pretty neat too
rustic osprey
5 caits all going lethality
and ult the same peep
tahm is v nasty since stacks are shared
paper crown
Ended up playing Quinn vs Ahri, Varus vs Fiora, and Ekko vs Azir.
mighty crow
I hate playing top ranged
But if you pick Trundle
Wtf am I supposed to do but play a ranged character with a dash
I ain't fighting that lmao
paper crown
Shen's okay statistically. And Udyr probably throws blizzards, stuns, and leaves.
Agree Trundle is really good at melee scrapping, though.
rustic osprey
Udyr, shen, malphite, graggy, urgot and tahm are p good besides like quinn and teemo
Jax if you good on jax
dim tapir
Wtf am I supposed to do but play a ranged character with a dash
is there any melee hero with a blind?
rustic osprey
Quinn, graves(although not 1 to 1 they are categorized as blinds)
dim tapir
lol sry for changing parameter
but fair
yeah expanding on this idea, i doubt akalii would be a good pick vs trundle
rustic osprey
If you are p good akali I think prob playable
dim tapir
nor daisy's friend, whose name i kept forgetting
granted, this assessment is based on my ARAM experience, which ofa would probably have a different outcome
woeful shuttle
Udyr, shen, malphite, graggy, urgot and tahm are p good besides like quinn and t...
urgot gets hard countered by trundle
mighty crow
I'm also perfectly content to play Smolder top and make the trundle regret first picking it
If people do things that are intended to be strong vs certain archetypes i will just counter pick them
I just would rather people not pick something that strongly incentives me to play ranged top lanes
spice glen
I'll be honest trundle is just agony to play into even as a ranged top laner.
because once you leave, he's still gonna do trundle things
rustic osprey
urgot gets hard countered by trundle
Huh not been my experience. And statistically I thhiinnnk it's slightly in urgots favour
woeful shuttle
it might have changed with hullbreaker but prior to hullbreak there is very little urgot can do to trundle if his cooldowns are up
there's been some change with LT nerfs and fleet becoming more common on urgot but trundle played well used to deal with urgot very easily
lolalytics is reporting some weird stats
positive winrates for both champions
also shojin works on urgot with 14.7 so you might see that as a third/fourth item
rustic osprey
there's been some change with LT nerfs and fleet becoming more common on urgot b...
fleet is such a deceptively powerful run
dim tapir
damn
silver heath
noice
silver heath
New Skarner is interesting
really tanky
Surprisingly easy to fuck your team over with the ulti tho
solid glacier
oh shit i gotta give him a go on live
rustic osprey
new skarner feels very fun
really cool ganks
I think you either go tri titanic full tank or stride into iceborne
silver heath
I don't like how clunky the Q feels but I can get over it
rustic osprey
phase rush also feels v good (just like on old him lol)
silver heath
I did ok with sunfire into IBG
rustic osprey
titanic is v nice since you can do big rock slam very good with it
silver heath
Yeah it seems like it would be nice
rustic osprey
but with only try you are kinda squish in midgame
so I think stride into IBG might be the play
stride kinda gets him all he wants (but locks out of titanic which is sadge)
rustic osprey
new e feels so good to catch people that are out of position
silver heath
Which is important for his slow clear
rustic osprey
esp in like river etc
it might not have been the best decision to play my first new skarner in ranked but payed off
silver heath
haha
rustic osprey
I dunno what to max second tho. I went W this first game
rustic osprey
hit him with the yoinky sploinky
I was suprised how much you can drift
in comparison to like nunu w. took me def by suprise the first time
he feels so good to catch single people
rustic osprey
Skarner players continuing their tradition of building everything
rain girder
Situation: Malphite ults a Renata while his ally Master Yi is on top of them.
Renata ults before Malphite hits.
does Malphite's ult hit master yi now? I know Unstoppable stops him from being compelled towards his allies, but does he still count as their enemy for that moment?
woeful shuttle
unstoppable would block the berserk iirc
silver heath
I donāt think berserk changes your team for abilities
rustic osprey
Ok hail on skarner is very nice
fallen notch
I have begun to understand Hwei
it turns out he does have bread and butters, sorta -- you typically use EW when you want to CC someone who isn't jumping you and QE is your main damage rather than QQ
mighty crow
He's definitely someone you need a few games in to understand what is going on
QE is nice but less burst damage, so for just trading QQ tends to be better.
Or if you want to kill ONE person rather than teamfight dps
fallen notch
I mean QQ is stronger damage-wise unless you can stick someone in QE for its duration, but QE is a stronger tool for forcing people out of wave plus area denial, yeah
mighty crow
Yeah.
QQ for burst damage, QW for poke/execute, QE for "standard", AoE control, DPS focus, etc
ocean imp
Hwei just seems unnecessarily complex, I feel like I'd mash his buttons too much before I finally learn him.
more so than other champs anyways
mighty crow
EQ for "Get off me", EW for area denial or when you have setup, EE for AoE
And then the Ws are all super situational
Ehhhh it's actually not that complicated when you get used to it
You just need to spend a little bit of time learning.
fallen notch
He's not super tricky now that I understand which abilities are standard vs. which are situational
mighty crow
That said, I don't think I ever actually mash buttons, so we might just have attitude differences.
ocean imp
That said, I don't think I ever actually mash buttons, so we might just have att...
I have some bad habits if I get into teamfights. Much less so now, but somewhat when I try out new champs.
mighty crow
I used to be a Ryze main at one point before he got reworked like, 4 times
ocean imp
I think the issue is that I started League by playing a lot of Illaoi, who doesn't really punish you for it.
now I am solidly a Pyke main
which is a strange evolution
mighty crow
And his QEQWQEQ etc kinda deals feel pretty similar to me
To the way Hwei selects his spells
Every cast of a Ryze Q is actually an EQ or a WQ basically
I vaguely think Hwei might have been a Ryze rework concept that just became its own champ
fallen notch
I just play a lot of "support" mages that let me focus on smacking people without much other strategy involved
I could go back mid but also it's nice not having to think about macro except for "do vision score and go help for dragon when that's happening"
mighty crow
Over time as you get better, support becomes the most important macro role.
Just as a note.
At least atm it has even more macro control than jungle
Since jungle needs to worry about its pathing
But support just shows up and fucks people up
We're seeing a lot of bottom carry role characters that can 2v1 farm so that their supports can almost perma roam
And if bottom tries to 2v1 their carry, they show up with jungler to 3v2 gank
fallen notch
admittedly yeah if my ADC doesn't really get how to manage wave I can't do as much since even people like Velkoz and Lux can't quite kill enemies if we're just permashoving the whole time
mighty crow
IMO you want to be permashoving with mages like that
They have better push and it's much harder to dodge skillshots when trying to CS under your tower
Than it is middle of wave
And if they have an engage supp and they try to engage, the carry can lose a whole wave for nothing if you disengage well
IMO it's engage supports that thrive in the middle area of the lane
Ranged supports almost always want to be pushed or pushing
Assuming ranged vs melee
It gets pretty different for ranged vs ranged
And obz all MU are different
rustic osprey
Hwei QE into EE/or that the other way is so annoying in lane
spice glen
oh no, OH NO.
MORDE R APPARENTLY CAN NOT BE QSS'D ANYMORE. (Same with all items that build through it and Sylas)
Milio R though clears it, Gangplank W clears it, Ornn W still blocks it, and Olaf R clears it.
solid glacier
good change
spice glen
I am kinda not in favour of this as a morde main though.
it meant they would have to sacrifce one item to deal with my ult.
But now they can just full build into better items.
solid glacier
this is literally always in your favor
unless you believe there is a psychological argument
from a game theory perspective they could always go full build instead of sacrificing an item for QSS
now they have less situational options
spice glen
I'm okay with that part since it's an option, if they think the morde is a threat enough, they can get an item to try and prevent the ult.
but in my case since I read it normally as a defensive item, it means they aren't getting more power, y'know?
Anyone (Unless tank) building a QSS meant they wouldn't be getting more attack stats.
Sure I might steal more attack stats, but unless they are full mage, I won't really use them effectively.
so I liked the idea that it did counter his ult, but..it meant I Could ult someone else!
abstract rune
I see what you mean but also I just don't buy that somebody being able to reliably nope out of your kill confirm arena is better than somebody buying more stats
spice glen
Maybe that might be a hold over from mythic items where it was all %'s but I still don't vibe with it.
It just feels like a weird change. Plus it might mean he's gonna get a nerf or buff or they might undo that change.
Admittedly it is PBE so I can hope it doesn't go live but as a one trick, I do not want him changed often if at all.
solid glacier
ah so youre arguing that since Morde could force players to buy QSS, that was an advantage rather than a disadvantage?
spice glen
yeah.
solid glacier
interesting
spice glen
It meant I was being targeted, and that meant I felt like I was doing my job better.
solid glacier
i disagree since i think QSS is pretty good generally
i think Morde will have more contribution to the game when his ult is less-counterable rather than when he can force a purchass of QSS
but obviously league is very complex so we'll have to see
spice glen
admittedly I'm pretty sure you don't see morde past like emerald really.
solid glacier
well im shitlow so š¤·āāļø
rustic osprey
It's so funny how skarner top turns out to be his best position
Ring start with comet and scorch
W max
It's so annoying
silver heath
I am kinda not in favour of this as a morde main though.
This is absolutely a buff 7 second CC on the ADC>>>forcing a QSS buy
mighty crow
Only 7 if you stay alive with them
But yes
The big thing is he's going to have to be balanced around it
But yeah like, it's good for the game imo
Is the more important thing in my opinion
I think cleanse effects should only cleanse CC
Qss shouldn't clear anything the summoner spell doesn't
silver heath
Morde can usually last a while in the thunderdome with an ADC
mighty crow
Yeah
More of their offense is usually in their stats
And their multiplication
So taking a percent of each is often more impacting
dim tapir
wait how the hell does ornn W block morde ult? it's not even a projectile?
silver heath
makes you disable-immune during it
so the ult just fizziles iirc
and it has a short cast time so its possible to do reactively
dim tapir
oh it's not directional?
dim tapir
i must have misunderstood the description of the skill then
silver heath
I don't think its in the description its just a weird interaction
paper crown
Ornn is unstoppable in W, iirc.
mighty crow
Yeah he's just in general immune to all cc effects
Same as sion in charging kind of deal
spice glen
Yeah, I once played against an ornn who really nailed his W timing, decimated our team with it frankly. IT was pretty funny
mighty crow
Besides getting down his combo structure
It's generally the most skill expressive part of his kit
silver heath
Morde having a push button turn off ADC skill was pretty wild while it worked
woeful shuttle
so the ult just fizziles iirc
yup, same as any other unstoppable
its not quite zed ult levels of "QSS is an error" but it's up there
mighty crow
I mean it's kinda implicitly saying " actually we're ok with Morde in pro or we'll find other ways to balance him around pro play"
IMO
spice glen
inb4 morde ends up getting developed into a pro champion
mighty crow
They've explicitly said they're not pro locking champs anymore
spice glen
a friend did say he's gonna get nerfed for pro play and I internally screamed
mighty crow
Shrug
He's currently way stronger at lower levels of play than higher
So I think the idea is to even that out some
spice glen
yeah he is. huh
mighty crow
He'll have more power in locking people in the Thunder Dome and less in just overall stats
silver heath
Yeah he's way more of a threat as a member of the modern bronzodia than in pro atm
mighty crow
His attacks are all pretty telegraphed
So if you have resources like flash and stuff
He's honestly not super hard to play around at higher levels
woeful shuttle
Yeah he's way more of a threat as a member of the modern bronzodia than in pro a...
bronzodia is getting me far more than it should
and yeah morde isn't great at ELOs where people can dodge his Q
because it's like 70% of his damage and very telegraphed
mighty crow
Yeah. If he has to auto 3 times to get his passive, he has probably lost the fight unless he's already REALLY far ahead.
The dream is the EQ auto R
But like
If you're getting hit by Morde E usually something is already pretty wrong
silver heath
and yeah morde isn't great at ELOs where people can dodge his Q
Especially as Riot kept making him rely on it more and more and more
Though morde the stat check god wasn't great to deal with in general haha
mighty crow
I miss OG morde
When his big thing was being invulnerable inside your minion wave
But like, kinda whatever outside of it
And you built TANK
Because his base numbers were good
paper crown
I miss dragonmancer Morde.
mighty crow
That one I don't miss
XD
I did that like iteration of his base abilities but I think current R is better.
And dragon ghost was really warping
paper crown
We'd play these terrible pet comps where we'd draft Morde + Annie + Yorick + Ivern
And then siege mid at 8 minutes with all the pets and permapush.
mighty crow
Lmao
silver heath
the dragon ghost was bad yeah
I didn't really like old morde much but I'll be real a lot of it was that I found his visuals kind of bland
paper crown
It was actually pretty good in mid Gold.
People were terrible at improvising counters to bizarre set plays.
lyric viper
IRON STANDS ETERNAL
spice glen
Is league of legends genuinely balanced for pro play or casual?
mighty crow
MOSTLY for casual.
But both.
And more.
The trick is that "balanced for casual" doesn't mean anything
It's balanced for Gold+ mostly, IIRC
With SOME balance tweaks sometimes for things lower, but only big outliers
A character like Garen is going to be better at lower skill levels
But the goal is that he's both playable at higher levels, but not TOO strong at lower levels.
But he's going to be stronger at lower and weaker at higher all the same
Because that's honestly part of his design goals, that he's easy
spice glen
BEcause a friend of mine is -focused- on it being balanced for pro-play, as in saying that it is only balanced for that, while quoting a azir video as the source.
mighty crow
Oh, well, that's just wrong.
Now, Azir is balanced for pro play.
So is Corki
So is uh, K'sante
Riven is balanced around... Diamond+ mostly? In that you need to learn her very specific animation cancels and mostly people just don't learn those at lower skill levels.
There are specific champions that are what we call "Pro Gated"
But mostly? No.
And Phreak is specifically working to undo that work currently, actually.
As one of his primary objectives.
It's why Rell got her jungle stuff removed
Because it caused her to be Pro-Gated
spice glen
Like would Morde be pro-play balanced at all?
mighty crow
Yes/No.
So, if Morde gets too strong in pro, his power level will be reduced in ways that reduce his power in pro without reducing it at lower skill levels as much in all likelyhood.
That's generally the path they're taking right now.
spice glen
so they're trying to ...unbalance for proplay and aim for more casual play? or as stated, breaking the pro-gate
mighty crow
If a character is too strong in pro, rather than just nerf them, they nerf them in ways that matter to pros but matter less to "casual", and buff them in ways that matter less to pros and matter more for "casual"
No.
They're trying to make adjustments that reduce pro-power while increasing non-pro power.
When they find a character too strong in pro
Rather than just nerfing the characters
Which has been the historic.
So they ARE balancing around their pro existence.
But with maintaining non-pro play
Rather than creating the pro-gated states where characters can end up awful in normal play but still potentially strong in pro.
If you want a simple answer, Mordekaiser will be fine even if they need to nerf aspects for pro, because they're going to try to increase power in other places that will help YOU specifically more.
spice glen
ahh so it's a happy between of usable in both pro-play and casually?
mighty crow
Yes.
And specifically pull levers that help in different places... Differently.
Like, for instance, for Mordekaiser a large amount of the power of Death Realm is the LENGTH, right?
spice glen
Yeah, I needed to ask that in here because ....well I doubted they were aggressively balancing for only pro-play.
Yeah length and the stat stolen are two big factors.
mighty crow
"You're here with me for like, 6 seconds"
Is huge
But the stats are actually less of a big deal for pro play.
Because it's the locking you in with Morde that's the bigger deal
So if they increase the stats stolen, but reduce the duration
Or reduce the size of death realm
It can actually be an INCREASE of power for you
While DECREASING the power for people who are using it on the enemy jungler so that they can't smite the baron
Because the stats stolen duel thing in the death realm is not why they're using it, so it being better matters but not as much
while you're not using it to stop them from smiting
So the reduced duration matters less for you
Or maybe they make epic monsters exist in both realms
spice glen
I admittedly do try to use the Ult to save/prevent certain plays but more of a reaction.
mighty crow
But they increase Q damage
spice glen
So that would be real impactful if they changed the ways things worked.
mighty crow
For you, the Q damage would matter more
Anyway, I hope that helps you with your answer?
I understand that's probably a more complicated answer than you were looking for
But I try to answer like, the totality of questions rather than just saying "no it'll be fine"
spice glen
No that's honestly what I needed.
It's a case of convincing myself that him saying "It's only blaanced for pro-play" is inherently wrong because I assumed they were trying to aim for that happy between
mighty crow
Yeah.
You're correct.
Now, they USED to pro-gate champs a lot more than they currently do.
Again, Azir/Corki are the big famous ones probably
Because they were seen over and over and over at mid lanes in worlds games
spice glen
So I'm not insane then, okay. Because as mentioned before he said morde would get nerfed or buffed for proplay but that did not sit right with me since he's genuinely easily dealt with if you're able to
mighty crow
I sincerely doubt Morde would see like, 100% pick/ban in pro
Or well, 80%+
Which is what it often takes to get pro locked historically
Even if he's really good, he has pretty clear counters.
Azir/Corki were both really good because they were strong at all stages of the game, had good waveclear, AND were very safe
Morde gets uh.... Ok waveclear, is often not very safe, and has clear points he's not even that good.
Even when he's strong
Like Morde levels 1-3 is often kinda whatever even in his good matchups
spice glen
Yeah they suck..