also Tank Twitch
#League of Legends
rain girder
spice glen
okay I've never seen that.
abstract rune
AP twitch is his best build in wild rift, hilariously
spice glen
I would imagine yeah, one trick players do tend to be extremely good at their champs.
That's why they can try those memey builds and make them work
rain girder
I'm actually very fine with meme builds, I think they're fun, but you have to be good enough to make them work
Also it looks like they're bringing back Hydra active in Season 14?
spice glen
I've definitely done meme builds in arams, because atleast it's an abnormal situation so why not just do weird builds there.
Oh no.
edgy trout
Also it looks like they're bringing back Hydra active in Season 14?
Thank God
Session 14 is Malzahar season
Mark my words
edgy trout
There are better morde items imo
spice glen
Why would that matter, it's just a funny item
violet hollow
legit super excited for the new season, decided to swap to secondary roles cause i don't wanna suffer as an adc for the 5th season in a row 
and while we wait, we get Arena back, so double win
woeful shuttle
it's also extremely selfish buildwise
bauss comes out ahead technically but his team then has to deal with the 20/0 trynd or whatever
and if a rando tries it and messes up then their team is just in the pit with nothing to gain
I'm really excited for the end of mythics
spice glen
I am gonna miss them purely because it means I have to learn builds again
woeful shuttle
I've always had to learn builds
I was born in the weird build, molded by it
you merely adopted the off meta pick
spice glen
you play crab man, you have no choice
silver heath
Yeah looking forward to the end of mythics
Now rito just need to cool it up and remove unique item passives
spice glen
they also need to make items like dota 2 items
violet hollow
meaning?
spice glen
more fun than just raw stat sticks.
Or atleast something where it would be more hype behind the items than just champs
raw axle
Many dota items are actives, don't think they will be aiming for that with how many active items got their button removed
spice glen
oh right they were going for the passive item part than active..
violet hollow
more fun than just raw stat sticks.
Or atleast something where it would be more ...
i don't really see how that could help, items are supposed to have abilities, just not active ones, for the most part
like, 80% of the new items have a unique gimmick to them
spice glen
And they are probably gonna remove most of the gimmicks with the no more mythic thing
spice glen
nevermind then
violet hollow
yep, new items are looking fire
woeful shuttle
oh god here we go again
bronze void
middle river brush looks so weird lol
spice glen
weird choice to get rid of demonic embrace
woeful shuttle
yo that's kinda dope
spice glen
oh shoot they even got rid of gargoyle's stoneplate
violet hollow
they got rid of staples and very used items
Stopwatch is gone, from items and runes
woeful shuttle
Stopwatch is gone, from items and runes
yeah the cheapest you can get stasis now is 1600 gold
which is good
stopwatch was busted
spice glen
is there any other items that give similar effects like duskblade or zhonya's that they are bringing in
woeful shuttle
duskblade doesn't grant stasis
spice glen
only because I hated duskblade's effect because "Oh you can't hurt me while I waddle around."
woeful shuttle
they're also removing duskblade
spice glen
I...yes. I'm asking if they are adding new ones with similar effects to those two at all
woeful shuttle
"goredrinker but without the sustain that has historically been the problem with goredrinker"
woeful shuttle
I...yes. I'm asking if they are adding new ones with similar effects to those tw...
doesn't look like it
spice glen
thank absolute fuck.
bronze void
yoo brutalizer is back
woeful shuttle
laughing urgot noises
bronze void
praise the wooden penstick
spice glen
ohhh warwick was bonked a bit with the divine sunderer removal
woeful shuttle
oh my god they fixed hullbreaker
spice glen
how?
bronze void
lol thank god
woeful shuttle
ITS EVEN GOOD ON URGOT
violet hollow
the most game-changing items they added were probably the support ones
also the UI and tooltips are much cleaner now, so you know what an item does without reading lines upon lines of stats
woeful shuttle
urgot's actually going to run hullbreaker really well
violet hollow
can't wait for the 10th of january
woeful shuttle
since 1. he builds fuckloads of AD because he only uses like two stats for damage output and 2. 3 attacks per second
so you do 5 W shots, toggle, normal AA for hullbreaker proc, toggle
that could be cracked until ezrael or some other ADC inevitably ruins it for everyone
probably zeri
spice glen
I mean it will be an itme they will build to tear open lanes since no need to be alone anymore
oh huh riftmaker is the only item with omnivamp
woeful shuttle
I'm thinking more bruiser zeri back when that was good
though I guess zeri's Q counts as a single attack?
spice glen
bel'veth.
spice glen
oh shoot yo they made Cosmic drive good again
violet hollow
most of the builds are gonna substantially change, cause the capstones of said builds were mythics
which are gone and won't be missed
woeful shuttle
yeah just being able to build whatever is a game changer
violet hollow
i'm very happy about the map redesigns too, the jungle looks dope
Baron nashor my beloved
and now you aren't nerfed by starting in blue or red
woeful shuttle
except for urgot for whom not much has changed
spice glen
wait is heartsteel still at hing
woeful shuttle
probably
woeful shuttle
radiant is gone
spice glen
My HP shield morde build will probably work even better now.
woeful shuttle
unending despair is probably the go to on tank morde
though hey, there's no mythics
build both
spice glen
Riftmaker, Swifties, Unending despair, Heartsteel, uhh
spice glen
gonna go grasp to get more HP
oh damn morde can become a bit of a scaler with that
jak'sho, fuck it.
violet hollow
hey Arthy, wanna see something cool
spice glen
is it another morde skin line
violet hollow
ye.
spice glen
same effects?!
violet hollow
[NEW] Haunting Guise
Total Cost: 1300 gold
Item Recipe: Amplifying Tome + Ruby Crystal + 500 gold
35 Ability Power
200 Health
Passive - Madness: For each second in combat with enemy champions, deal 2% bonus damage (maximum of 6%).
spice glen
oh my lord my build MY BUILD IS GOING TO BE GLORIUS
I will finally feel like a scaling champ with okay performance in the normal game
violet hollow
also, fun fact
spice glen
oh no they are gonna nerf him aren't they after the patch where all these items come out
violet hollow
Liandry’s Torment
Total Cost: 3000 gold
Item Recipe: Haunting Guise + Blasting Wand + 850 gold
90 Ability Power
300 Health
Passive - Torment: Dealing damage with abilities causes enemies to burn for 2% maximum health magic damage per second for 3 seconds.
Passive - Suffering: For each second in combat with enemy champions, gain 2% bonus damage (max at 6% bonus damage).
it's part of an item, not just a stand alone
spice glen
oh wait I didn't even notice they got rid of the mana.
I actually won't feel bad getting liandry's now
rustic kite
Ability haste basic item!
spice glen
look I'll say this much, they are cooking.
While I WILL miss mythics, I am a bit of a convert to the build anything scenario
rustic kite
Which amusingly... they only mention it being used for Brutalizer
(It's probably in some items that only got recipe changes)
spice glen
would be funny to have all the champs that need/want ability haste, building an AD item
violet hollow
look I'll say this much, they are cooking.
While I WILL miss mythics, I am a bit...
mythics were nice for champions with a proper build
but a lot of champs were like "idk built that i guess"
you had a single build, for any game
spice glen
I looked upon mythics fondly, beca- yeah I could kinda tell what people were goinna be doing based on the first 1-2 items they got.
It offered that stability of me being able to determine how the match might go for me
violet hollow
also, the game felt too fast
a good 2/3 of champs had a power spike at the second items, you could have games were you would end with 3 items, including boots
rustic kite
Also it was easy for Ornn to explain what item he upgraded for you, it was just the mythic
RIP Ornn mains in 2024
spice glen
Ornn is gonna be that one meme now of X character explaining how to to do thing
bronze void
He doesn't want to be usurped by the new guy :v
spice glen
"Ornn what does your passive do now?"
"Yes."
edgy trout
Also it was easy for Ornn to explain what item he upgraded for you, it was just ...
did they actually said what orn does now?
or did they forgor
rustic kite
Not yet
edgy trout
forgor until proven otherwise
rustic kite
But I expect it to be back to his pre-mythic stuff where it's an arbitrary list of legendaries
edgy trout
"fun"
rustic kite
Fun trivia, on Ornn's release there were only 8 masterwork items on Summoner's Rift (plus 1 more for Twisted Treeline)
Sunfire, Abyssal, IE, Deathcap, Cleaver, Triforce, Locket, and Redemption
Not every champ built one of these!
And the list grew up to 13 masterworks before mythics came out
lilac bridge
*laughing urgot noises*
THE FUCK AM I GONNA BUILD ON AATROX NOW
HUH
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH
WAIT
THIS IS MASSIVE
IT'S NOT TRUE DAMAGE ANYMORE???
I THINK?
actuallyi could see sundered sky on aatrox...
toxic cargo
Also it looks like they're bringing back Hydra active in Season 14?
Does it also mean...tiamat active?
rain girder
I believe so? Not sure.
The answer is yes
also for Titanic
and the new Profane Hydra
I could see Kha enjoying the new items
Opportunity, Ghostblade, Cyclosword
Ult to charge up energized attack faster, EXTRA slow on passive as a result
woeful shuttle
and the new Profane Hydra
and ravenous
raw axle
Bring back hydra stacking
spice glen
will they allow me to build 6 boots
rain girder
Anyone want to do PBE games tomorrow to try out the new map?
rain girder
okay cyclosword is busted on kha
like
one evolved R is enough to recharge the energized attack
lilac bridge
WH
I'M LOOKING AT THE ITEMKS ON THE PBE AND
WHAT
oh it's probably an arena item
rustic kite
Oh I remember that thing
silver heath
Sotd was a meme item for years before the mythic rework
lilac bridge
christ
gragas top is still just as fucking infuriating as ever
it's like old tahm except he runs away from you instead of sticking to you
woeful shuttle
yup
rustic osprey
weird choice to get rid of demonic embrace
Cause of people like Mao hard abusing it
I missed the hwei discussion but it should be noted he is not like full on evoker since q w e and share a cooldown regardless of what type used
spice glen
demonic wasn't that bad, but they did make it stacking with other sources of it. So fair
spice glen
Maokai broke it because he also typically built liandry's
rustic osprey
And all the riftmaker users
silver heath
I think most champs which built demonic also built liandries
rustic osprey
Don't think so?
The only one in my head would be Mao and maybe malz for lia + demonic
spice glen
Double burn stacking was the big gimmick if you could do it.
or triple if you had like champion effect too
rustic osprey
But which Champs like actually did that outside of aram
spice glen
you realise some of the highest winrates builds were liandrys, rylais, then demonics?
silver heath
Brand is similar just with passive burn extending the dots
rustic osprey
Teemo has way better items then demonic third
spice glen
...doubt.
silver heath
It did help that Liandries has just been a best in class mythic some patches
spice glen
he would normally go nashor, liandry's, demonics
liandry's and demonics were two stupid good items for many champs to just burn you alive.
rustic osprey
No?
spice glen
Yes.
rustic osprey
Demonic third is not standard teemo
spice glen
I have to ask, where are you pulling this even from?
rustic osprey
My brain
spice glen
well go get that checked out then. Some of teemo's highest win rate builds are using liandry's and demonic's
rustic osprey
Could be wrong deffo
Huh seems I am after checking
I never see the teems otps build it tho in my experience
rustic osprey
Well I did apologize for being wrong
silver heath
It’s all good
spice glen
You're fine, but yeah it had way more usage for other champs.
woeful shuttle
angry urgot noises
silver heath
I am surprised that Riftmaker is beating out Liandries atm
spice glen
bywaaaah I want that as morrde
rustic osprey
Don't let me face jax with this
woeful shuttle
so many cool items, so many I can't build
rustic osprey
I started to pref icrborn on mord
spice glen
remove the AD and just make it a haste item i'd be more happy
rustic osprey
Iceborn is soooo disgusting
rustic osprey
Eh it deserved it big time
silver heath
I generally only play Morde in jungle (though not lately lol) but I mostly build Jaksho on him
spice glen
N-nuh uh! It was totally an underperforming morde item and totally wasn't like the item to build like in patch 12 or something
silver heath
Hard read
spice glen
morde's gonna eat well next patch...atleast mine will
rustic osprey
We already had eve,akali,ekko,Viktor and fizz
silver heath
Diana again
rustic osprey
Diana os already building tank half the time anyway
spice glen
inb4 lux with the steel chair
silver heath
I do think there will be a tank Ezreal build, but he’s not a mage
raw leaf
i forgot how funny diana mid can be lol
ngl im surprised yone did more damage than me
spice glen
top lane kinda has inflated damage values because they are fighting just thiccness.
and he did help/get more kills than you by 6
rustic osprey
Axiom Yone h u h
rustic kite
We already had eve,akali,ekko,Viktor and fizz
Tanky TF
raw leaf
top lane kinda has inflated damage values because they are fighting just thiccne...
well the reason im surprised in part is due to early on just being fucking in the dirt against a darius lol
like i was more or less the only laner who won their lane lol
and who could more or less fight the darius reliably
raw leaf
man ngl im bummed we didnt get eclipse knight diana in the main game
cool even more goth but with blue leds diana is a vibe
raw leaf
especially considering leona got her eclipses skins lol
tbh its wack she didnt get one among that set the more i think about it lol
woeful shuttle
diana is mentioned as being eclipse leona's SO in the skin lore too
so yeah just a bit
raw leaf
wait really?
the ship is finally canon?
thats the second ship of mine from the old days apparently canon alongside cait and vi lol
raw leaf
well i tried lol
but the team just sorta kept melting to a rengar while i killed the rest of the enemy team solo more or less
rustic kite
Ouch, support Karth
raw leaf
like id literally kill over half the enemy team and turn back to deal with the rest and my team was just gone
and like i can only do so much lol
toxic cargo
But which Champs like actually did that outside of aram
Lillia
rustic osprey
Oh twu
raw leaf
Yep they had a love short story
they do? vibe
raw leaf
love it when i go jg and the laners constantly whine at me lol
silver heath
I just mute people now
I’ve had ganks go not so well and I just mute the laner first
raw leaf
like trundle got angry i didnt stay in after we both disengaged after i literally tried to peel for him but he died to ignite
literally said i "left him to die" even though we were literally right next to each other
same game i dived under tower to help with a dive accidentally got the last hit and got executed by tower and sommehow its me "making it a bad play"
like
and bare in mind before this the trundle was constantly pinging me to help
rain girder
Laners often have no idea what they're tlaking about when they're just mad that they died
My bot lane earlier was getting repeatedly dove by a Kayn that was, by that point, 4/0
"Kha we could use a gank"
Me, who was invaded early: "Yeah and I could use some farm, I can't fight that"
"Not about to give him a triple instead of a double, fuck off"
Similarly, I try not to be mad at laners when they don't rotate/follow/come to objectives because like
I don't have perfect information and neither do they
raw leaf
laner mains looking at map challenge impossible lol
rain girder
I've got some bad habits I try and train myself out of
Most notably I try not to fixate on "Should" statements
If I go to start a drag/herald and my laner SHOULD come to help, but they don't? If something bad happens, that's on me for continuing with it.
What SHOULD happen is often not what DOES happen, and what DOES happen is what matters, and I try to remind myself of that every time
silver heath
Yeah that’s a good mindset thing
fallen notch
Aside from warding your camps pre-emptively, how do you really play around being invaded? I’m playing mage junglers lately and it’s only a matter of time before Graves or Briar or someone comes in to eat my lunch
silver heath
Weird clears
Reverse clears, skipping camps, that sort of thing
For example it used to be extremely common for blue side Graves and Kindred to invade the enemy jungler at their red buff (red side junglers started on their blue buff)
So you could stymie them by reverse clearing from red so that whole quadrant was already taken by the time they yanked
But in turn that could be countered by a hard red red buff->enemy blue buff delayed invade
So it was often important to not get help from your top laner to avoid giving away the reverse clear
That kind of mindgame
woeful shuttle
So it was often important to not get help from your top laner to avoid giving aw...
or intentionally have your top laner hide to fake them out
weird shit
silver heath
Yeah
toxic cargo
I experienced it on live servers
ripe loom
League fans are actually so allergic to slightly complicated kits
Hwei doesn’t even have complicated abilities
He just has a lot of them
silver heath
like a jillion people play league there's gonna be someone vocally against anything I think
woeful shuttle
hwei's abilities are straightforward but that is also a lot of flexibility
though most of it can be summarized as "do damage in an area"
rain girder
man
I love a good assassin but
lethality briar is just kinda
unfun to go against lol
raw leaf
the funny part is they keep saying the nerfs are to nerf lethality briar lol
but its sorta just made it the only build for her atm really
cuz you could before go bruiser or lethality
and i preferred a bit more bruiser but alas
woeful shuttle
PBE arenas are pretty fun
the new augments are great
and the curse mechanic is actually good on urgot for once
rain girder
I could not kill ANY of them aside from twitch
Yuumi was always on Kat or Aatrox
also bruisers build bruiser and not lethality challenge: impossible apparently
getting real sick of lethality mythics on aatrox and the like
silver heath
F_ck Y__mi
rain girder
yeah
the whole reason for my serpent's fang there
also please riot make antiheal not a cosmetic item
fallen notch
how in-sync with my support do I need to be to play Kallista? She seems cool but like two really integral parts of her kit (the E passive + R) feel like your support has to be pretty on the ball and playing the right champ to work
fallen notch
Like if I pick Kallista and my soloQ supp grabs Lux it sounds like I’m just SOL because she’s not gonna be doing either of those
like I can’t throw non-tank supports at people with her ult surely
silver heath
Your support bounced back to AA range with her ulti and it's also excellent peel
Kalista-Lux is a weak lane but a bunch of enchanters are good with her
fallen notch
That sounds surprising. Why?
silver heath
So the highest synergy by a lot for enchanters is Sona, so I assume its for comboing ults
Janna is also up there, though I'm less sure why
Renata is also decent, I assume that's another ult combo thing
rain girder
Nautilus/Kalista is like, the bestest ever
But Kalista benefits from shields in particular, since she's just... always moving and thus pretty vulnerable. Sona's good because her shit's all aura based, doesn't need to target or be anything but "in range" etc
rustic osprey
Renata Kalista really disgusting if played well together. Ots less about the ult combo and more that renata q is a great engage and Disengage tool and w is w
Man I remember playing kalista top when it was good
bronze void
Rell jungle is a lot of fun
Didn't play for like a year and now I'm back she has a ton of monster damage on all her abilties, very cool 😎
edgy trout
Im looking forward to season 14
So many cool items
Not having to do the same build every time
spice glen
even though the realistic situation is there will be generally optimal items for champs and those will be the ones to build
spice glen
I should attempt to do ranked..
bronze void
I'm waiting ill the new season before I dip my toes into that again :v
woeful shuttle
so hellfire hatchet is busted beyond belief
abstract rune
rain girder
Urgod stronk
rain girder
Alright, did a FULL uninstall of League
and reinstalling in the vain hopes
that this reconnect bug is fucking done with
because boy am I tired of it
silver heath
good luck!
spice glen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQwLSj8cEHw
Old old morde ult back...on trundle?!
raw leaf
apparently morde is getting qol and some incentives to build ap in the next patch
though idk if any specifics are out yet on that
fallen notch
beginning to understand why people here (and in general) don't like Riven
rain girder
Pubstompers are only ever fun to play as, not really against most of the time
She's actually a really technical and interesting champion but give her 3 items and facing her is a nightmare
fallen notch
It's not even that so much as she just stomps my top laner and turns into an unmanageable menace because she has a million dashes/hops even when it's safe to chase her
rain girder
Yeah, she's super mobile
can almost always back out when things don't go her way
likes to weave in and out
fallen notch
in better news, I'm loving Zyra and I really should play jungle with her more often so I have more agency in games generally
rain girder
Zyra is fun
Not sure that I'd play her jungle but if it's working for you, that's fantastic
fallen notch
it's a mix of wanting to play a bit more jungle b/c the agency thing and also the fact that I'm pretty sure I'm best suited to mages just in general
silver heath
Zyra is one of the rare actually legit mage junglers
fallen notch
She and Brand recently got some buffs for jungling IIRC
Which is handy because those are also two of my favorite supports
the only mage jungler I don't get is Neeko, I haven't tried it yet but I don't know how she's supposed to clear early
spice glen
though idk if any specifics are out yet on that
God I hope not. he has plenty of incentive with his passive, q and e.
it'd also just make his defacto build probably full AP.
and I hate full AP because you are just a glass cannon at that point.
raw leaf
Well they specifically note it's to incentivise him building a bit less all tank
Which I can get
spice glen
I can understand it, I Do but the reason why he went full tank is just how bursty everything is now.
Even post durability patch, so many items and champs offer just a lot of unnecessary burst.
so unless they make it like every point of AP gives him HP+armor+magic resist, (which jesus that's OP no) he's still gonna be inclined to build tanky to avoid instant popping.
Plus...as a one trick with him, I really don't want them to touch his internals.
It means he'll go through a potential period of constant adjusting which feels really shitty.
woeful shuttle
I want morde's abilities to have more to them
right now he's very......eh
his thematics are good but his kit is so straightforward that I can't really play him well because there just isn't that much to do on him
raw leaf
I like his kit but recognize the problems with it
I just enjoy the simple joy of the smack q
edgy trout
spice glen
that's 145 years
rain girder
almost as many as the combined years of game design experience at Riot Games
woeful shuttle
Draw Your Sword on urgot is disgusting
rain girder
god
this reconnect bug is pissing me the fuck off
every search detail for it is just different driver-update programs saying "Just use our program to update your drivers"
bitch my drivers are fucking updated that's not the goddamn issue
I just lost a game because I got invaded hella early because I wasn't connected
rain girder
Same, it's very neat
rain girder
Yeah, kinda nuts
Briar's still going to be a menace, I'm sure
also, Leona buffs hot damn
spice glen
why did morde get 10% more ap on his q.
ult giving vision of the enemy its being casted on is cool
spice glen
I just assume it only affects brush because they made that specification.
rain girder
Well, I can still ULT but he will just get to see me lol
Nah, I think they made that as the intended reason but it does help him against champs like Shaco or Kha who have instant invis
spice glen
shaco's invis removes him from the map for a second though I think.
rain girder
Nope, it's just a blink + invis. His ult does tho
spice glen
or is that the clone
rain girder
For like .3 of a second while casting his ult
Shaco is not on the map at all
It's how he can dodge Karthus ults
If he's skilled enough
spice glen
I forgot if it was the clone since every time I play against a shaco they use the invisible at the same time as the clones
rain girder
yeah, it's a good trick
You can also send your clone over the wall
if your positioning is right
Shaco has some neat tricks
spice glen
a way to bait them to run far away while you waddle away
man I want the new season to hit just so I can cry at how I miss stable builds.
rain girder
I want the new season to hit so I can have Eclipse AND Ghostblade
and also for voltaic
spice glen
also arena
rain girder
and Fizz with the new burst item
I just hope the PBE bug is gone by the time new season hits
infinite ability haste my ass
rain girder
the only bug I need is
also maybe if they nerf mid naafiri enough we could get jungle naafiri buffs
give me the doggo assassin jungle
raw leaf
Man the morde ult qol also explains some of the weird ass interactions I've experienced lol
Also q ap buff is funny to me Ngl
Now I can smack even harder
spice glen
oh definitely, anytime you lost sight of someone mid ulting, it would cancel it out and be kinda confusing.
"Huh, I ulted them. Why did it not go through? Do they have sash?" when in reality, no they went poof
raw leaf
Lol yeah
raw leaf
oh definitely, anytime you lost sight of someone mid ulting, it would cancel it ...
Would it also put it on cd? I'm curious now Ngl
spice glen
sometimes yeah, depends on how late they get away before the ult effect.
raw leaf
Man this explains so many weird moments I've had with morde
spice glen
though some effects are intended, like yone being ulted but his return spot is outside the ult zone, thus breaking it, to give an example
silver heath
https://tenor.com/view/kha6-khazix-jungler-jungler-pathing-tony-hawk-gif-1258275...
This rules
lilac bridge
haha fun. cool. the pbe locks up whenever i try to play arena. fun.
spice glen
why is it rough? I thought she was effectively made for jungle
silver heath
Designed as midlaner
spice glen
ohh okay.
violet hollow
i saw that she was busted toplane for some time
raw leaf
This reminds me that I've been enjoying Diana mid quite a bit
rain girder
Okay why the fuck has full lethality tristana been a thing lately
rustic kite
Bursty kit and she doesn’t have the AP scaling she used to?
spice glen
full lethality also is just able to deal with everyone now. even tanks.
silver heath
yeah lethality is pretty dumb atm
abstract rune
what's lethality again specifically
rain girder
Flat armor pen
rather than ignoring a percentage, it just ignores a flat value
Lethality also scales with level
Armor Penetration = Lethality x (0.6 + 0.4 x level ÷ 18)
rain girder
Given 10 flat armor penetration and 45% bonus armor penetration, and the target is affected by 30 flat armor reduction and 30% armor reduction;
Target A has 300 armor (100 base and 200 bonus armor).
The 300 is reduced to 270 (90 base and 180 bonus armor) by the 30 armor reduction.
The 270 is reduced to 189 (63 base and 126 bonus armor) by the 30% armor reduction.
The 189 is considered to be 132.3 (63 base and 69.3 bonus armor) by the 45% bonus armor penetration.
The 132.3 is considered to be 122.3 by the 10 armor penetration.
Target A takes damage as if it has 122.3 armor.
Target B has 18 armor.
The 18 is reduced to −12 by the 30 armor reduction.
The −12 is not affected by any further calculations because it is less than 0.
Target B takes damage as if it has −12 armor.
This is a solid explanation of armor penetration as a whole
So in order, it applies Flat reduction, percent reduction, percentage penetration, flat penetration
silver heath
the short heuristic is that flat armor pen is meant to fuck up people who don't build armor and % armor pen is supposed to counter people who do
rain girder
ye
silver heath
Which is part of why flat armor pen was renamed to lethality because its use case is super different from % pen
rain girder
Yep, % pen is tankbusting
abstract rune
Huh
rain girder
fun fact: Dragons and Turrets have 30% Armor Pen
Aphelios being able to level lethality via his passive is actually something I hadn't considered
rustic kite
Yeah before lethality existed flat pen used to FUCKING SHRED early-game and be "yeah it's okay" late-game and they changed it to be more consistent across game-state
raw axle
I remember playing ad assassins and just having like a third of my damage being removed as soon as the enemy adc bought their guardian angel
rain girder
Yeah, Armor's generally strong
It was very strong for a while and it needed something to take it down
woeful shuttle
the short heuristic is that flat armor pen is meant to fuck up people who don't ...
serylda's is a high tier item on urgot for this specific reason
because it burns through tanks
rain girder
Serylda's in general: very good
rain girder
god every game where a Briar is involved she's just
everywhere
all the time
if it's not briar it's graves
getting real sick of this
stray mason
Fast
raw leaf
Briars ult cd is kinda silly and I say this as a briar fan
Just the briar everywhere system
stray mason
I understand Briar, but how does Graves does it?
rain girder
Graves' aoe autoattacks, turns out
make him a god at clearing fast
He builds lethality, bursts like crazy
and you need like 3 people to fight him if he's even slightly ahead
they both clear fast
they both do a fair amount of damage
abstract rune
Graves has fast ass clear and a very good ambush
spice glen
cowboy gotta rush
rain girder
You walk into a bush with graves around
you are walking into a twelve-gauge
to the face
can't say they didn't nail the class fantasy with him
spice glen
not enough slapping of the shotgun shells though
fallen notch
Shaco support review; I feel like I don’t get how this works. Do I just not do anything until Liandrys?
I guess it’s only been one game and also playing into Blitz means I don’t get to throw a lot of Es, but still
rustic kite
you are walking into a twelve-gauge
Have you seen that gun? It’s like a 1/2-gauge
woeful shuttle
I hate pyke players so much
it's the assassin problem where they just cannot comprehend the idea that anyone else is slower than them
so he flies off at mach 5, dies in the 1v2 and wonders what happened
rain girder
also yeah most of my recent salt is mostly due to the fact that like
it's popular to play bruiser jungles and bruisers can be a pain in the ass to deal with
as an assassin
god it's liek any time I lock in kha the enemy plays graves
It's liek clockwork
also what is this level 4 roaming pantheon thing
violet hollow
one month, and we can say goodbye to mythics
fallen notch
dudes be like “5 - 18 game at first surrender? winnable”
narrator voice: it was not in fact winnable
lyric viper
ghhhhh
almighty PNet help me and not succumb to playing League again
This is my plea
lyric viper
fuck
ANYWAY Undertale reference aside, I wish I could play league rn
Alas, I deleted my 5-6 year old account
for my mental health
spice glen
I'll do you one better.
Don't play league, go play Dota
rain girder
I'd be playing Dawngate if it was still around
raw leaf
gods its been an age since i heard the name dawngate
raw axle
I'll do you one better.
Don't play league, go play Dota
Go download Smite
rustic osprey
easiest lp of my life
Graves stated red and I did his raptors level 1 aswell, hit level 2 burned flash of level 1 mid and then went to my blue and he rq
raw leaf
somewhat random but i find it weird that rivens i think newest skin like has a visual update animation set?
like it has unique taunts and ability animations
hell the way she even walks and stuff is different
silver heath
Which skin do you mean?
I think her most recent is broken covenant and that's a legendary so those are normal
IE all legendaries get new animations and vo work
raw leaf
vo sure but like her everything animations are different even more than her other legendary
and yeah i mean covenant
like it looks like a whole new animation skeleton
like this is less me disliking the skin and more like "please vu her i beg cuz these newer walk cycles and stuff look good"
silver heath
That's probably just cause its newer I think
There's a lot of "quality creep" with LoL skins
spice glen
only VU Riven if she gets pizza feet
raw leaf
well she has other recentish skins without it. like i think it confuses me mostly just due to it being what feels like a whole new skeleton
like a skeleton you could slap a new texture over even
and i think a fan vu has actually literally done that lol
abstract rune
new legendaries on old characters put in a Lot of legwork to make them not suck
raw leaf
fair
it just feels bizarre. like ill grant this is just me running into this maybe for the first time since i came back
she also has apparently a new generic wild rift texture lol
abstract rune
But yeah the like, legendary glow-up is mostly animation and texture work
base model under all that remains ancient
raw leaf
well i dont think covenant is the same model
silver heath
well she has other recentish skins without it. like i think it confuses me mostl...
Legendaries usually get a whole new set of bones and animations but how extreme it is varies
silver heath
No its really weird with some skins
raw leaf
im not like trying harp or anything
abstract rune
You are not wrong it Is Weird
silver heath
Particularly when old as hell champs get legendaries
like project ashe or the time traveler cait ones
raw leaf
it just confuzzled me cuz i recently decided to try to do riven again (context she was one of my fave designs in the day but i was too dumb to play her really)
silver heath
Before they updated the base anims anyway
raw leaf
fair
ultimately its not the end of the world or anything
just when ooking at it it threw me off
spice glen
It's mostly just wanting champions to all be of a certain quality really. Nothing wrong with it.
silver heath
Oh another good example is fairy queen Karma
She looks super different in that one animation wise
silver heath
That one also moves the tether on her W from center of model to her hand so it wiggles around when she moves and its super confusing
That is old haha
I remember that VGU
raw leaf
same
one of my friends was very sadge
kit wise at least
i still miss old fiora ngl
ive learned to like new fior
but i did some disgusting shit back in the day with her old kit
btw is the morde butff on live or still just pbe? i forget
silver heath
Karma’s old kit was really neat
raw leaf
it was weird as shit but neat yeah lol
silver heath
If they updated it a little and brought it back I think it would be quite popular
I’m mildly salty about that VGU because while I never really played old karma I thought that her new kit is quite dull
raw leaf
i like it but im also stupid and like simple kits
its why i play morde
that and he looks and sounds cool/hot
raw axle
like this is less me disliking the skin and more like "please vu her i beg cuz t...
Me, having to use Spirit Guard Udyr for years otherwise I would have pizza hands: Now you too know my suffering
raw leaf
Me, having to use Spirit Guard Udyr for years otherwise I would have pizza hands...
i mean i played udyr
spice glen
Morde used to be pizza feet
spice glen
and his Ace of spades skin used to be the -only- good skin
raw leaf
like i remember when everyone had pizza feet
raw leaf
and his Ace of spades skin used to be the -only- good skin
pentakill was good in a silly way
but yeah
spice glen
Now ironically, Ace of spades...is not the best
silver heath
It’s a good kit but it’s not that flashy anymore (esp since she fucks up pro play every time she’s Good)
spice glen
they made his head spikybut the rest of him Smooth
abstract rune
How's Hwei been looking?
raw leaf
i just wish his newerst skin had the mace instead of a hammer
other than that i love it
silver heath
Haven’t been following
raw leaf
hweis not my sorta vibe so i just havent paid much attention beyon briefly looking at his kit
silver heath
People on /r/hweimains had already found a way to complain like a week ago but that means nothing
raw leaf
though his kit did sorta remind me of karmas
spice glen
he's also not out yet
raw leaf
idk why
silver heath
He seems cool tho
spice glen
unless pbe
silver heath
Curious what role winds up being his main
spice glen
he'll be out tomorrow....as in the 6th
silver heath
(It’s gonna be mid because he’s not enchanter coded)
I thought he was already on the pbe
silver heath
It looks like it’ll be good
raw leaf
ill also admit im shocked they hadint updated riven in my time away
spice glen
morde adjustment is out
spice glen
it's not a buff because I 100% bet tank morde will still be better
spice glen
they just made tank morde ironically better by having Q give better AP scaling
abstract rune
the damage will increase until morale improves
silver heath
Buff something else ffs
spice glen
Buff his W instead
raw leaf
make e a bit faster tbh
silver heath
Give him back his chadly base stats if you need (do not do this)
spice glen
make it have AP scaling
raw leaf
like thats probably the biggest non numbers thing
cuz it can be weird to do his combo sometimes
due to the speed
raw leaf
i mean its hp scaled by how much you are missing is it not? which yeah having more hp influences
but idk
i like him being an ap bruiser
spice glen
without tier two boots you can land it pretty consistently
no W is scaled with his maximum HP
it's pretty much why tank morde is so good because it's 45% post reduction damage he do, and 15% pre-reduction he takes, up too...think it's like 30% on max HP
but yeah if they wanted him to be an AP bruiser, they should make it be AP scaling instead.
All they did was make the Q better but still keep tank morde relevant.
so you can just get demonic's or rylai's or whatever and just do slightly more damage with the Q
raw leaf
also very random but i hope diana gets an eclipse skin eventually
like its sorta wild she hasnt imo
woeful shuttle
my boy
abstract rune
rip
woeful shuttle
Every time Morde is weak riot adds more Q damage
there's nothing else to buff is the problem
if you buff his passive jungle morde becomes a problem, if you buff his ult it becomes even more of a "you die" ability, and his W is barely an ability by modern standards
riot would need to add shit to his kit because his kit is incredibly simple
raw leaf
i love his w ngl
silver heath
I mean, there’s base stats
woeful shuttle
fair
woeful shuttle
ill also admit im shocked they hadint updated riven in my time away
riot's not going to let riven out of balance jail until she gets reworked
her kit is far too good for her numbers to be allowed to be even remotely reasonable
silver heath
Base stat buffs for morde are tricky though because when he had strong base stats he was basically the reincarnation of S3 Darius
silver heath
IE the Bruiserist Bruiser who can out-bully anyone in lane
raw leaf
i meant her model
woeful shuttle
IE the Bruiserist Bruiser who can out-bully anyone in lane
yeah those were the days
silver heath
Riot needs to fuck with Riven, at least remove her janky core cancels imo
raw leaf
cuz shes popular still im pretty sure and most of the other older ladies are updated now
silver heath
Oh when did you think Riven came out haha
raw leaf
she came out a bit after
woeful shuttle
I thought she got released in 2013 somewhere around yasuo
silver heath
Oh yeah that's fair
woeful shuttle
time flies ig
her visuals have held up pretty well compared to a lot of the other 2011 cast imo
looking at you nocturne
also skarner apparently
woeful shuttle
no he didn't
silver heath
J4 is fair though
silver heath
Yeah and prettier textures
woeful shuttle
I was thinking of the big VGU that's somewhere vaguely off in the distance
silver heath
Same animations though
raw leaf
garen getting a vu continues to make jaravan look funny ngl
silver heath
J4 never looked that good imo
raw leaf
tru tbh
silver heath
I thought he looked stupid in 2012
It's funny how many 2011 champs have been changed or updated
woeful shuttle
he still looks stupid in 2023
it's the spear for me
the weird extendy bendy part of it is far too dynasty warriors for my tastes
silver heath
He's also... not very demacian looking
woeful shuttle
I'm trying to track down the absolutely ridiculous builds that were going around in 2011 but I can't find them
lost to the sands of time
oh christ
it's like I'm looking at a different game
rustic kite
if you buff his passive jungle morde becomes a problem, if you buff his ult it b...
They could always put a "less damage vs monsters" on the passive. But also I remember the (incredibly funny) era when W was a problem with the heal and shield stat
silver heath
IMO its ok for Morde to be good at jungle
dim tapir
aw man i landed a game winning renata ult
feelsgoodman
we were oppressed most of the game too
excuse the commentary, i thought i muted discord audio input when i recorded it
turns out i only muted my mic lmfao
fallen notch
love being held hostage in very severely losing games all night long
Cool stuff
game is like 15 - 46 and nobody has a positive K/D; no surrender
next opportunity the game is like 15 - 53, still no surrender
honestly need to just start biting the bullet on afk penalties, I'm probably wasting more of my time nominally participating in games like that than I would be waiting out a 1 or 5 minute penalty, whichever it is
lyric viper
my boy
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<---- M7 Urgot main pre-deletion
woeful shuttle
still probably fine since hatchet is unchanged
lyric viper
still probably fine since hatchet is unchanged
wwwwwait is that WR or regular PC?
rustic kite
Urgot obviously got too much of an indirect buff from the removal of mythics
spice glen
pc changes i believe
rain girder
god
Graves just couldn't actually play the game
he tried but he just wasn't aggressive enough early and I just outscaled
silver heath
He's so broken oml
Like half the spotlight is just explaining how he can eat shit
That's so rare for a spotlight haha
spice glen
no hwei
dim tapir
ISOLATED? (for QW) i wonder if they mean khazix isolated or karthus isolated
spice glen
"His art reflects the struggle between beauty and despair."
So he builds Liandry's
dim tapir
i see tons of damage is still going strong in champion spotlights
spice glen
oh my god, he is going to be able to do atleast Support and midlaning, but he might ironically be able to build tank
okay who made guitar hero into league.
silver heath
ISOLATED? (for QW) i wonder if they mean khazix isolated or karthus isolated
the latter iirc
rain girder
also I LOVE hwei's story
I love the idea of someone who's like
"This is horrible. But I can't look away. It's a terrible thing that happened to the temple, and I must help, but... it was beautiful."
"this is the hwei" oh my god
fallen notch
I wasn't aware he was out yet but now I gotta play him
rain girder
Ye, he do be out
dim tapir
i assume aram has slightly less ppl fighting for hwei
rain girder
Given that it's a 1 in however many champs there are chance
rustic kite
They should add a mode that's All For One except you're locked into the latest champ, whether rework or new release. Keep it open for only 2 weeks for each champ
dim tapir
"enhanced getting used to new content mode"
rustic kite
Everyone who's absolutely gotta play the new champ in their games can play with everyone else who's absolutely gotta
silver heath
I'm not looking forward to getting everyone first-timing hwei in my games
I'll take him jungle just 4 u
fallen notch
he's a mage that isn't Azir, how hard can be he 
edgy trout
he is actually really easy
fallen notch
fair chance nobody here knows what I'm talking about but I'm getting flashbacks to Merlin first being put in Smite and while I doubt it's actually that bad, the similarity alone makes me feel... something negative, not sure what
dim tapir
alas, already fell off smite when merlin released
i think i was last active around susanoo
edgy trout
fair chance nobody here knows what I'm talking about but I'm getting flashbacks ...
remember Tyr on release
fallen notch
(Merlin's shtick was also having three abilities on each of his normal abilities, though he didn't have an ult since that was the dedicated stance switch button)
fallen notch
remember Tyr on release
I've heard about it but I only started playing around Season... 2? Sol was the newest when I started and she was also pretty busted at the time
stray mason
Uhh
edgy trout
Tyr had a the longest cc chain, infinite mobility and both attack and tank stats
stray mason
I last played when uhh
Before they made the Fire Giant a real character
Uhh
It was after Tiamat.
fallen notch
likewise, last new character I saw was Shiva, and Surtr came out not too long after
stray mason
Tiamat is fun.
fallen notch
I've just learned that they're making the bakekujira a thing though and that's unfortunately tempting
woeful shuttle
imo hwei is less concerning just because he can't chain as much stuff
a lot of his abilities are just AoE magic damage
stray mason
The whale is a basic attacked based guardian
woeful shuttle
there's lots of different forms but they fundamentally all do more or less the same thing
woeful shuttle
it's not invoker where I have to worry about a fucking orbital laser from halfway across the map
fallen notch
That's fair, and I admittedly don't think the comparison is super apt beyond the fact that they're both just mages with a lot of buttons, but it's still a coincidence which gives me bad vibes because of how spammy Merlin was
stray mason
He doesn't get attack speed, but he gets haste for building attack speed.
fallen notch
He doesn't get attack speed, but he gets haste for building attack speed.
I'm looking at it now, god this looks weird
I mean good for Hi-Rez for branching out into weirder character designs, shame it was only after I dipped
edgy trout
I mean good for Hi-Rez for branching out into weirder character designs, shame i...
Hi-Rez should never be called good ever
edgy trout
hwei is technically 3 karmas in a trenchcoat
lmao
stray mason
What does Karma do exactly?
fallen notch
Hi-Rez should never be called good ever
I'll accept that, though my perception is only that it's a company which constantly makes questionable decisions
dim tapir
karma is "my R is by default unlocked, and works similarly to heimerdinger in that it boosts my spell when i press R"
raw leaf
her ult juices her other abilities basically
fallen notch
What does Karma do exactly?
what everyone's saying about the ult, but her abilities are designed to give her a decent poke projectile and then kinda bait tools with a shield and a channeled root
edgy trout
I'll accept that, though my perception is only that it's a company which constan...
they have a long long history of publishing really interesting concepts, making them pay to win, milking it, promising a lot, abandoning them a year later
woeful shuttle
What does Karma do exactly?
not much tbh
stray mason
Ah
dim tapir
karma's old identity is "i get more AP the lower my health is, plus the R thing"
edgy trout
yeah
dim tapir
and was almost worse to chase than singed
edgy trout
she is profoundly annoying
fallen notch
they have a long long history of publishing really interesting concepts, making ...
feels in character for how new god releases worked but also yeah I'm faintly ware that they tried to spin out an autochess among other things
edgy trout
feels in character for how new god releases worked but also yeah I'm faintly war...
I played a lot fo their games
so I am salty
fallen notch
it's unfortunate that the kooky whale and Ishtar exist as a temptation to return, even if I probably won't
ah well
dim tapir
ok hwei confirmed "really not that bad"
brain less hurty than when playing akali or kat
rain girder
Ye, he's not too complex once you get a feel for what does what
Q = damage, W = utility, E = CC, and just mix those as you see fit, they're pretty intuitive
His main issue is being made of actual tissue paper
dim tapir
it's k, i play aram exclusively
where being made of paper just means i stand next to teammates more
rain girder
He just has a fast recall at that point
dim tapir
ye
lyric viper
🤔 Is this another "super complex non-traditional champ that's also made of tissue paper" type deal?
like with phel?
rain girder
Sorta? He's less complex than Aphelios, I'd say
dim tapir
yeah he's not forced into options like sad moon boy is
rain girder
Aphelios having a whole different leveling pattern for his stats as opposed to abilities and nonstandard buttons is where the complexity is
lyric viper
ohhh
rain girder
where Hwei is literally just "mix and match to make the spells happen"
It's actually a pretty elegant way to commit to the idea
Base spell determines what you're doing, second spell determines delivery.
QQ = Highly damaging fireball, it's a skillshot. Modifying other abilities with Q makes them into skillshots.
WW = Shield zone. Applying W to other stuff makes a circular AOE.
EE = Crowd control. Applying E to other stuff makes it apply CC.
so
QW = AOE execution bolt
WQ = Movement speed in a direction
EW = Grants vision in a zone
EQ = A blast that fears
etc
When you have the gist of what the abilities provide, you hardly actually need to know what they do, just what you need in the moment
spice glen
I've played with three hweis so far and they all eat shit so fast that it has been making me laugh too hard.
edgy trout
Hwei is pretty good
He is strong
But he requires a bit of skill
But he needs what league players dread the most
positioning
sinful orbit
It's actually a pretty elegant way to commit to the idea
Which they don't get credit for lol
spice glen
I like the kit. its pretty impressive they managed to make something fun without making me read each individual skill
rustic osprey
The fear is hard annoying me
The mini rumble ult is naaasty waveclear
But hwei eats so much mana
spice glen
I think the reveal trailer did say he was meant to be resource intensive
rustic osprey
sylas with jeweled gauntlet, crit and lifesteal, and the crit for heals and shields
silver heath
rustic kite
Oh no, does Urgot get full heals on W?
woeful shuttle
Oh no, does Urgot get full heals on W?
not full heals but it's a lot of healing and a lot of burn
onhit urgot is kinda meta for arenas
sword too
rustic kite
What a weird hybrid item
Trying to think what enchanters want to be autoattacking besides Senna
woeful shuttle
Trying to think what enchanters want to be autoattacking besides Senna
literally none of them
as far as I can tell it's only urgot who builds this
rustic kite
I could maybe imagine it on like... Kayle or Diana?
Wait I forgot if Kayle even still has the heal
woeful shuttle
neither auto enough to make it good
kayle still has the heal
you need extreme levels of AS to make it worthwhile
rustic kite
Kayle doesn't auto a lot? Huh
woeful shuttle
no kayle autos a lot
but it's not enough
it isn't very much heal so unless you're like, actually urgot it's just not enough to make it worth over other items
if you are urgot you can rack up 2.2k healing in a round
rustic kite
I figured Diana/Kayle get less heals from peppermint but like the other stats alright, but okay fair
woeful shuttle
best item
spice glen
I'd build that sword as morde.
Just extra heals is nice
I say as sona got a broken ass quest aug that basically was "Yeah you win the game"
rustic kite
I'd build that sword as morde.
Just extra heals is nice
I thought about Morde too but he prolly has consistency issues if you build around landing AAs
spice glen
mostly depends on the augs admittedly.
rustic kite
Actually... can any of the "self-heal on-hit" champs make use of it? Eg. Warwick
spice glen
isn't His Q the steriod for the healing?
rustic kite
WW also has his passive
But it doesn't matter where the self-heal is, just thinking about champs that make use of AS, AP, and the heal and shield natively, it just adds ally heal as a bonus thing
Unlike Morde, WW or Diana or Kayle need to be autoing to do their job
fallen notch
So for support champs that take Domination runes, is there really any reason to ever take Eyeball Collector over Ghost Poro? I feel like since you have such a high volume of Stealth Wards and they give the same amount of AD/AP, the extra utility and ease of procs for Ghost Poro should just win out over Eyeball every time, right?
silver heath
Eyeball collection is better if you're against goons who don't ward
Or in high kill games, but that can be hard to predict
fallen notch
Ghost Poro is your wards, Zombie Ward is for denying the other team's
silver heath
Oh yeah whoops, I was thinking of zombie ward
silver heath
I do think with certain kill lanes the faster gain from eyeball collection can let you snowball into a win better
woeful shuttle
Eyeball collection is better if you're against goons who don't ward
this is actually a problem I run into
I'm really good at maintaining ward control so I can go extended periods with my opposing laners just not placing wards because they'll get cleared
silver heath
Yeah its a real issue even if they aren't just foolish
woeful shuttle
err
wait didn't they change ghost poro so that it ran off of your wards?
aha they did
raw leaf
yes
woeful shuttle
right, forgot
I do like the increased vision from ghost poro
fallen notch
yeah nah Ghost Poro is off of yours, the thing is that they have to expire naturally and also I think only supports can really use it because otherwise you're not proccing it fast enough to be worthwhile I imagine
silver heath
my go to is leona lol
I mean Leona is a kill pressure support, but also I don't think she goes red much
silver heath
I usually see her with green/yellow
raw leaf
i go green main and i can see yellow but i prefer the extra vision
especially cuz i just do unranked so ill often be the only source of vision lol
silver heath
Yeah if no one else is warding its pretty important
raw leaf
so
i guess i can sorta play riven now?
kinda?
like not super good by any means
but like ive gotten consistently decent laning down i think
though ive kept struggling to get a match won due to my team either lacking cohesion, tanks, or cc
so i just end up being a scary thing that gets cced to death lol
raw leaf
im stil not great at the aa-q-move animation cancels
but i get the general flow state for her now
and my wall hops are getting more consistent
i think the big thing for me coming back to league after a gap away from it is ive sorta learned how to lose a lane gracefully
if that makes any sense
silver heath
Yeah that makes sense