Armored Core General!

[patent oyster]

And the core

[surreal tundra]

Mhm, fair enough,

[patent oyster]

Since different boosters have different QB costs

And different cores have different QB cost adjustment

[surreal tundra]

I really do hope we get more parts to play with-

tho,

DLC can only go so far, can it?
As in like- if we're waiting for more part categories, that might pretty much need a whole new game or-?

[polar osprey]

Maybe i was right about my idea that the Aorta is hot garbage

[patent oyster]

I know a modder whos doing a full campaign overhaul

With added weapons

And 100 new arena combatants

Most of which are player submitted

[patent oyster]

Joso on pale painter is actually usable, mostly due to HAL core

[surreal tundra]

but the NGI?

[surreal tundra]

mmmmm
I wish I could use it zxm,mcnb

[patent oyster]

NGI is good

The extremely high capacity and output, coupled with a higher instant regen% (which means it recharges faster than aorta) make it very usable

[cursive agate]

I get the feeling I overestimate the value of regular boost speed in terms of throwing off AC6's targeting. Being able to spam long QBs with 12345 gets you out of trouble when it matters.

[surreal tundra]

Hmmm, fair enough reading

[surreal tundra]

jumps?
higher boost might make that a bit more maneuverable Iunno,

[cursive agate]

Jumps are definitiely a huge factor, easily wrecks odds of hitting, especially at very high/low angles.

[patent oyster]

Regular boost speed doesnt have anything to do with QBs though

[eager vector]

reread their comment :3

[patent oyster]

ah nvm

my bad lol

[surreal tundra]

basically high boost speed, good jumps, options when you can't QB just yet or to space out QB use, Iunno lmao, I tried to use more jumps before I think

[cursive agate]

Ended up going back to Arquebus Quad legs after experimenting with heavy tank/biped setups, It's like Human PLUS at the cost of (wonky) bunnyhopping.
Using a Bazooka/GL instead of Rifle as a poking option is the good stuff.

[surreal vine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB-Br5-iNl8

Apparently ACV had an entire underground facility level that was cut

[serene kettle]

oh that's a shame

I wish ACV were this vibrant

colorful isn't the right word since this is mostly black, but the glossy black geometry adds a very different character to mostly gray concrete and brown ground

[surreal tundra]

tight squeeze for any other gen's ACs mznccb

[patent oyster]

ive gone and tested your build with joso and aorta just as a thought experiment

in practice, their redline -> full times are actually pretty equivalent

but joso is more flexible, if you dont redline it and manage your (miniscule) amount of EN well, pale painter ruber is a lot more mobile

whereas with aorta you have to redline it or else

and that leads to predictable lulls in the combat loop that an opponent can exploit

@surreal tundra just thought id ping you with my conclusion haha

[polar osprey]

makes sense

[patent oyster]

Do you mind if i make some suggestions on how to make ruber more efficient?

[polar osprey]

go for it

[patent oyster]

These wont change any weapon loadouts or playstyles for the most part

1. Swap FCS to occelus. Occelus is lighter and more EN efficient than WLT FCS, and matches the etsujins effective range better. Since the 4 cell missiles reload so quickly and occelus doesnt have too shabby of a missile lock stat, there wont be a noticable difference in missile output

2. Swap generator to san-tai. San-tai not only has a higher capacity than NGI, not needing to redline it gives you a lot more options for mobility, especially since RJ grounded QBs are your best way to change velocity and direction quickly. Of course, NGI still works if you want to keep the coral theme but you run into the issue of predictability i mentioned earlier

3. Swap out the mind alpha arms. They have good recoil control, but at etsujin effective range your bursts wont have that much deviation, and the occelus FCS' high close range tracking will compensate. Mind alpha arms are also really heavy, and bring ruber over the midweight threshold into heavyweight territory (80k+ weight). The issue is, you still have midweight level defences and AP. So, id suggest swapping to melander c3 arms. C3 arms have a very good firearm specialisation and are pretty light while retaining good EN defenses, and in PVP competitive are the arms of choice to carry dual etsus

4. NGI is very good at QBs and fits well with RJ legs, but the main issue is that NGI QB reload syncs with RJ grounded QB airtime. That means if you commit to a QB, you are stuck moving in that direction until you land on the ground (or AB). Since C3 arms return you to midweight territory, why not swap out the booster as well? Fluegel is probably the best booster for midweights, it has a faster QB reload than NGI, has decent QB speeds and vertical boost stats, and has a good AB.

5. Optional, but id swap out the head for something with slightly higher attitude stability (verril, VP44D, or Kasuar). Having 1609 stability is pretty good, but id say the higher the better. Of course, if you want to keep c3 head for the aesthetics, thats completely fine

[polar osprey]

head is definitely non-negotiable

Pale Painter uses the normal version so it's a signifier of succession

[patent oyster]

But yeah, those are my suggestions

[polar osprey]

got it setup, gonna give it a try

yeah that seems to work a treat

not having lulls with the gen is pretty sweet

i'll keep blueprints for both versions

[patent oyster]

ruber with aorta

ruber with joso

ruber with my suggested changes

[patent oyster]

With aorta, due to the redline time, i was forced to be more aggressive to spend EN and also dodge with RJ jumps more often

[polar osprey]

Mhm

[patent oyster]

With joso, it took slightly longer to kill nightfall because i played slightly more passively to manage my EN, but i was able to be a lot more mobile on average

[polar osprey]

San-tai was very comfy to use

[patent oyster]

So the two generators are still the absolute worst in the game, its just a matter of what you care about more

[polar osprey]

Paired with fluegel i had a lot of qb to work with that regens fast

I could do a lot of like, quick dodging without worrying about my EN

[patent oyster]

San tai on HAL core with that loadout gives you a very hefty 8k en supply

[polar osprey]

Which i couldn't with the coral gen

Being able to drop like 3-4 qb's at a moments notice without worrying about my en supply is hella nice

[patent oyster]

NGI is reeeally EN hungry

[polar osprey]

Yeah

Means i can do kicks more often too which is really useful

Thanks for the advice

Improvements are good, especially when they don't clash with aesthetic

[patent oyster]

Hopefully C3 arms dont mess with the aesthetic too much

[polar osprey]

Nah they're fine

[patent oyster]

I understand the need to choose parts that look good so i mainly focused on the internals

[polar osprey]

Mhm

[patent oyster]

I did play around with changing the missiles to 6 cells, but it increased the weight back up to 80k so

[polar osprey]

The arms were definitely the best pick for improvement

[polar osprey]

Small missiles good

I like them cause they weigh nothing and recharge fast

[eager vector]

I thought 75k was the important speed threshold, not 80k

[patent oyster]

Its 80k now iirc

[eager vector]

interesting!

I like that change 75 was strict

[patent oyster]

But 80k is also when you can start getting more and more stat dense

80k is getting into heavy biped/quad leg/tank leg territory

[surreal tundra]

mm mm, yeah that's fair, is it tougher on the NGI or like- iunno, does the NGI give a little more flexibility/less predictability?

[surreal tundra]

the kicking is always so glorious lmao,

[patent oyster]

NGI still has the redline downtime, but the 4.4k capacity really increases the amount of maneuvering you can do before that

The redline also feels different from aorta

NGI instantly recharges 3/4 of the EN bar

While aorta instant recharge is only 2/3

[surreal tundra]

Mm mm,
yeah, that 3/4ths feels so significant, especially with a higher EN cap already anyways

[polar osprey]

Thanks for the feedback by the way

I really like making stuff iteratively and having discussions about improvements and such so this was rly nice

[patent oyster]

no problem!

glad it helped

[surreal tundra]

actually- how long does it take for the EN to recharge between either coral gen, grounded and after a QB or something, cuz that'd probably be one of the only ways to really mess around the mag-dump QBing/EN-use to be any less predictable or something

[radiant birch]

iirc the coral gens take something like 3-4 seconds to start recharging

[eager vector]

yeah it’s a while

[eager vector]

I love laser lance

[radiant birch]

it's so good

anime ass finishing move

[patent oyster]

Honestly i noted the 80k thing in that message moreso because one of my improvement suggestions was to change out the arms to decrease weight (and increase firearm spec), and swapping the missiles essentially reversed that suggestion

So in the name of consistency, i decided not to

[eager vector]

lol

[polar osprey]

more missiles are good

but fast missiles, i like fast missiles

[cursive agate]

*small detail: the 4-shot regular missiles fire all-at-once, 6-shot regular fire 2-2-2, and 10-shot regular fire a stream of missiles.

[patent oyster]

The longer the salvo, the longer the downtime but also a higher likelihood of tagging an opponent with a missile

[patent oyster]

I need it

[eager vector]

Oh hell yes

[modern hornet]

Box art technically has the model number wrong, though. Michigan uses an 033M Verril. It's a Melander variant that serves as the stock Heavy Tetrapod. Otherwise, agree, Michigan is best Redgun.

[covert tide]

[serene kettle]

Oh, Lamm Head + Wrecker Core looks very cool

[radiant birch]

Beefy

[deft pelican]

it really gives off a sick terminator vibe

[modern hornet]

I could never bring myself to use any of the lightweight heads, personally. Even when the lightest head in the game was the TIAN-QIANG. The stats just usually end up being so... bad imo. Then again, I like my ACs to be at least decently tanky, so maybe that's a style preference.

[deft pelican]

the tian qiang head is usually the 'oh crap I optimised everything else too hard' head which I just find funny

[radiant birch]

I think the Lamm head is basically always a fashion option

[deft pelican]

yeah lamm has obscene en load for what it offers

[radiant birch]

It's... not good stat wise, from what I gather

Yeah

[deft pelican]

which isn't much

lightweight has sick head options though

alba and nachtreiher are awesome for fashion

[radiant birch]

Tian Qiang canonically being the "oops I sank all my points into my other body parts" option is utterly hilarious

[deft pelican]

it's literally the dril candles tweet in a head

[kind halo]

What's the ideal range of the minigun? been trying to use it and i feel like i'm plinking them with peas

[deft pelican]

weirdly close; its projectile velocity isn't bad at all (being on par with the ransetsu-rf, a weapon with significantly better range) but its ideal range is around 130m

kind of a brawling weapon

source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Iill6MrDRl6e_TTc0T2PYzNhAJ6mMHiB9QMv8yCbH_A/edit#gid=1680820083 weapon parameter spreadsheet from somewhere on reddit, but it's for patch 1.02 so some stuff may be out of date

[cursive agate]

Minigun fights around SMG ranges, I've mostly seen it used in x2 configs because x1 is underwhelming.
(4-panel Pulse Gun is the Energy weapon equivalent, but min/maxed for damage output. Works fine/better in x1 because of the sheer recoil.)

[radiant birch]

i blame all of you for this

[small stone]

Help yall

[radiant birch]

literally or figuratively

[patent oyster]

Use dual flamethrowers and dual back missiles of choice

The enemies in that mission are weak to explosives

And flamethrowers count as explosive damage

[cursive agate]

Explosive weapons in general help a ton, I used the long-mid FCS on a Bazooka/GL + missiles quad build.

[radiant birch]

lmao

yeah you sure did

[summer bay]

I have created an AC called Nimbus

Stun weapons all over

Very fun

Who needs Impact when you can stun everyone

[summer bay]

The joy I just got when i rematched someone who teabagged me earlier only for me to whoop their ass 2-0 on the rematch.

I teabagged them back

I had to

Just beat him 2-0 again

Get fucked

No i did not teabag this time

I actually nicked his redshift idea

So he can't pulse armor in time

And with my Terminal Armor it's hard for him to kill me despite me being a lightweight

I don't like being hostile, mind you.

He teabagged me tho so it's deserved

[surreal tundra]

how does one teabag in AC6?

[deft pelican]

I don't know, maybe tapping opposite directions on wasd to keep doing the funny boost turn?

[surreal tundra]

forgot what that looks like exactly but why not XD

[wooden nimbus]

Post match emote splash in ac6 🤔

[summer bay]

Whilst boosting (sliding across the ground. not quick boosting) you repeatedly flick the movement stick forward

your AC does an animation when boosting in which they crouch slightly and lean forward

if you repeatedly flick the stick forwards you repeatedly do the animation, causing your mech to teabag

[summer bay]

nah it's just
activate boost then

w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w every split-second

[deft pelican]

ohhhhhhhh right

[surreal tundra]

Ohhh
Lmao XD

[summer bay]

Therapists are kinda mid

Unless youre me, in which case theyre a fucking monster

[small stone]

This is new

[eager vector]

Kate Markson is my favorite real independent mercenary

[summer bay]

It begins...

[polar osprey]

The GOAT fr fr

[deft pelican]

I forgot what channel I was in for a sec and thought this was the weirdest mental health flex ever

[small stone]

How do I make a mind alpha themed ac

Without sacrificing the speed

[cursive agate]

I think that will be tricky without swapping some parts around, since the whole MInd Alpha set is on the bulkier side.

[patent oyster]

Therapist lamm kites are actually meta now

[patent oyster]

Use mind alpha core and head, and use other parts for everything else

Or just grab burzel/p10 booster and AB everywhere

[small stone]

These parts are HEAVY

[eager vector]

swap chest and arms for ephemera, use arm weapons that feel “experimental”

[summer bay]

I dont kite

I'm a lightweight

[patent oyster]

Therapists arent great at offensive rushes though

[summer bay]

Its not the rush im after

Its the buildup

[patent oyster]

Also kite is a playstyle not a build archetype

There are specialised kite builds, but everyone can technically kite

[summer bay]

I know how a Kite works

Stay in the air, never touch the ground

To that

I retaliate.

Its VERY effective mind you

Most of the time I stay in the air to avoid explosive splash damage.

Zappity Zap Zap

Beating the "Stagger Melee" and "Zimmerman" users one bolt at a time

What some people dont realize is these stun weapons have secondary damage

After a second or two your AC takes another bit of damage, which is a godsend once it starts stacking.

[patent oyster]

Kites aren't always airborne

[summer bay]

They sometimes skim across the ground aswell, ik

Tetras ignore the drawback to heavy weapons when hovering

So they can hover a little bit off the ground

Usually when theyre using explosives they try to hover higher up though

[dusk summit]

does the speed of a enemy have any effect on acs lock time (like if your hard lock has to spin very fast to keep up with their movement, will the lock be any slower than if they where standing still)

[patent oyster]

Once your fcs locks onto an enemy, it doesnt matter how fast they're going

Its changes in velocity and direction that throw off tracking

[surreal tundra]

wait what? an actual new mission or-?

[surreal tundra]

oooh,

[eager vector]

new missions happen in NG+ and NG++

[polar osprey]

good old ng+ and ng++

[surreal tundra]

oh- so not like something that came with a new update/patch or something?

[eager vector]

right

[dusk summit]

watching a criticism vid of AC6, and finding my intrest is drawn mostly to all the pvp gameplay they have playing in the background.

i have just follwed the ac games since Ac6 reveal and havent actually bought a game yet. so these observations might be off base

-3rd gen (and more broadly old gen games) seem to be more like 3rd person shooters with jetpacks, more emphasis on using cover, aiming well, and general composure under fire

-4th and 5th seem to be the most similar, where its basically a dogfighting game with legs, lots of small far away targets flitting across your view just a second as you try to manuver and find a firing opening.
(i should clarify these are more pvp based)

-ac6 seems more like a "bar manegment" game. not that other games where not like that, but just between reloads of 4 different weapons, your stagger, enemies stagger. in addition to hard lock and shorter distances means the game is less about exact aiming and movement combos, and more about juggling all of those bars. Things like "do i jump or dodge to break acs, jump costs no energy but puts me in the air where im not regenerating energy" seem to play into that as well.

[deft pelican]

Oldgen games aren't really third person shooters in a traditional sense: limited turn rate and energy management make the moving and aiming very unique, e.g. jumping behind somebody has very different implications depending on what legs you bring. 'Aiming well' doesn't quite capture the dynamic that movement is aiming

[dusk summit]

very fair

[deft pelican]

4th gen you're pretty much on it: very fast and cool movement tech, quick turn somewhat negates oldgen limitations

5th gen is a much more grounded tactical game where your options are based around the level geometry more

[dusk summit]

idk, they feel closest to a shooter, but i should have acklowledged that their very much dogfighting games in their own slower more grounded way

[polar osprey]

4 goes very fucking fast

[deft pelican]

it's the Gunz: the Duel of mecha

[polar osprey]

yah

[serene kettle]

Yeah 5th gen can be dogfighty but most builds very much are not. It's very terrain dependent and you don't fly as much as you do walljump and glide

[deft pelican]

glide boost is sick

[dusk summit]

watching the gameplay of 4a and vd makes me want to not play them

i have a very hard time following the fuck is going on

[polar osprey]

NEXT's are vastly faster than anything that any other game can come up with

[serene kettle]

Verdict Day is one of the best games in the series

I'm not a huge 4/4a fan

though obviously some people love them

[polar osprey]

i like For Answer a lot

[dusk summit]

like they look good but also to much mentally for me

[deft pelican]

6 I think comes closest to the platonic idea of a third person shooter probably

[polar osprey]

but man the controls are not the best

honestly i mostly just get stuck on turn speed

[deft pelican]

that does apply for like 70% of the games :P

[dusk summit]

even with hard lock on aiming for you?

[polar osprey]

there is a button combination you can do to turn faster but i cannot fucking do it at all

[deft pelican]

hard lock is not a good idea to use all the time

[polar osprey]

probably

[dusk summit]

ok

[polar osprey]

not using it constantly is definitely beneficial but you also can just do it

i do

[deft pelican]

quick turn is neutral left stick, boost + right stick to turn

[dusk summit]

ive heard very different things from different creators

[polar osprey]

yeah i can't pull it off while i'm focusing on everything in game

it's just too much shit to be pressing while i'm trying to do everything else

[deft pelican]

if you're into assault boost play, you need to know both otherwise your movement options are way worse

(I'm not great at it, but I find it fun)

[dusk summit]

about how much soft lock actually increases acs speed

[deft pelican]

that is one of the main reasons to use it

with soft lock if you aim well, your lock time is massively faster

[polar osprey]

ye

i don't really use it cause i can't focus that well on aiming while i'm trying to focus on my EN, my enemy, my weapons and everything

hard lock just works better for me

[deft pelican]

I'm on mouse and keyboard so it felt fairly natural to me :p

[polar osprey]

i exclusively play with controller

[deft pelican]

that'd do it

not played any 6 on controller

[polar osprey]

if you're on keyb and mouse it makes sense that aiming isn't as much of a thing to think about

i actually haven't given keyb and mouse a try

[deft pelican]

it's good!

[dusk summit]

i like that

i saw a youtuber making the point that armored core doesent need to be a game about who has the best aim, and i vibe with that. its more rather that like, keeping with the dogfighting throughline of the series, movement should have a big effect on both your lock on accuracy and their lock on accuracy.

[polar osprey]

just cause it's a fromsoft game and i default to controller cause they are usually built really well for controller

[deft pelican]

I'd recommend rebinding the back weapon keys e&q to extra mouse buttons if you have any

[polar osprey]

i have two

[deft pelican]

just so back weapons don't mess with your movement keys as much

I also rebound the engage boosters key from tab to B because I need that for quick turn

[polar osprey]

just rebound it to E

[deft pelican]

come to think of it that would have made more sense

ah well, hindsight is 20/20

[polar osprey]

this shit is weird

i am very used to controller

so this is extremely odd

lemme do duels with Nightfall with keyb and mouse and controller and compare

[dusk summit]

i do wonder how armored core changes from here on out (if we get another game, i mean, bloodbourne's what like 9 years old at this point). like in the age of modern gaming will we see a clear generational divide again? how big would such a gap be, considering the gap betwen gen 3,4,5 is not nearly as much as 1,2,3.

[polar osprey]

iirc miyazaki has stated he wants to do more so

[deft pelican]

I'm excited for whatever they bring

[polar osprey]

whatever they do i'm sure it's gonna fuck

[deft pelican]

FromSoft have managed to nurture a lot of great talent and I can't wait to see their takes on AC and original properties

[polar osprey]

i would love to get something with the customization and systems of older games but with the far sleeker and more friendly gameplay of AC6

also this comparison is going to be very unfair to keyb and mouse but i wanna see how my gameplay changes

[dusk summit]

a lot of people want tuning and more than 7 non-weapon parts.

[polar osprey]

i'll do one match without hardlock as well

[deft pelican]

utility mounts would be lovely

[polar osprey]

i think it would be fun to get stabilizers back

granted i didn't really fuck around with them much

but i like granular building like that

the idea of being able to make a mech that is specifically tuned towards moving to the left for instance is very funny to me

[deft pelican]

Whatever will be, will be

[dusk summit]

the main thing im intrested is like, will there be a core like out there in the same way there are souls likes?

because i would be incredibly exited for that

[polar osprey]

in order: Keyboard and Mouse, hardlock, softlock

[dusk summit]

dark souls felt like basically all timing and very "you either figure out the right way to dodge this or you do it the wrong way and some attack in the combo gets you and you eat shit" and then attacking was just a question of "how many attacks can you get in a opening before you get hit again"?

and i can totally see how that style of experementing the find the awnser is good for other people, but it felt really uncreative to me so i bounced off.

idk, maybe its a lot deeper than that and i never got far enough into the mechanics to see.

armored core however appeals to me far more than souls, esp with the mission structure and progression.

[polar osprey]

wow yeah Keyb and mouse and softlock had about the same speed for how long the fight took

keyb and mouse was slightly faster and i didn't fumble as much with the camera

hardlock you can see i just lock in when i don't have to think about the camera

i think for keyb and mouse it's kinda hampered by the fact that it's very awkward for me to have all of my weapons bound to my mouse, which is the most effective way to do it

i'd need a lot of practice to be comfortable with keeping four buttons in mind with one hand

ok tried it with a different ac and it went a bit better

Nuclear Collision is a bit of a simpler one since it doesn't have as much effort needed to keep the back weapons constantly firing

i think it could be interesting to learn to play with keyb and mouse

though i still think it feels more comfortable to play with controller

it just feels more natural with the weapon buttosn and everything

[radiant birch]

Tuning would be a great addition for an AC6: Subtitle or AC7 game

[polar osprey]

i would MUCH prefer Tuning over OS stuff

one and done generic upgrades are very boring compared to literally being able to tune every single AC/NEXT you make to be that much better at it's intended purpose

[radiant birch]

The one thing that outright disappoints me about AC6 is that you can unlock every OS upgrade. Makes it feel more like straight up power progression than customization

[polar osprey]

yeah same

it was fine without any context but having played older games i would have loved getting tuning in AC6

[dusk summit]

i admit i dont quite get the big appeal behind it or more parts like stablizers or shoulders. it sounds like its not giving you new options as much it is letting you take 2 similar builds that already exist and make something slightly in the middle of their statlines.

[polar osprey]

the thing is

playing an AC game for me

i spend something like

90% of the time in the garage

getting those minor stat changes and just experimenting with builds gives me LIFE

[radiant birch]

It's more like, if you understand what your AC's combat strategy is, tuning lets you make it that much better at it

[dusk summit]

if you couldnt i feel like that could interfere with armored cores loop of "you can change literally everything about a build to suit a mission." since you have to permanantly commit to a choice of upgrades.

[polar osprey]

what you gotta understand is that building your AC/NEXT is a core part of the experience

[polar osprey]

which is why tuning is just better

cause they give you a certain amount of points

and point you at the menu

and say "go wild"

you can assign points freely at any time

so while you are changing parts and stuff

[radiant birch]

Yeah I don't think tuning is permanent at all

[polar osprey]

you can swap around your assigned points

it isn't

[polar osprey]

and you can make up for flaws that certain parts have to make a more balanced build

or you can focus on what they are good at and you can make a more extreme build

with stabilizers you can do shit like tune how you play

[radiant birch]

Yeah. Just being better at everything doesn't feel nearly as interesting to me as deciding what you want to be better at and why

[polar osprey]

if you want to be able to strafe better, you can add heavy parts to the sides for that

if you want faster forward movement, ditch the back parts and side parts and put shit that pulls your center of mass forward

[cursive agate]

AC6 likely toned it down to keep things from being overwhelming

[polar osprey]

if for whatever ungodly reason you want to fly left only

you can fly left

[polar osprey]

i think they really went in and took what was good about armored core mechanically

[radiant birch]

I want to be overwhelmed though 😭

[polar osprey]

and really refined it

[radiant birch]

Give me more options than I know what to do with!

[polar osprey]

AC6 is less technical than previous games and more beginner friendly

which is good

but i also would LOVE to see them not do that in whatever they make next

because, even if i am a newbie to the franchise

i fucking love customizing shit

[dusk summit]

i get that, im saying 4 weapons + 7 internal slots, with like a dozen options each. has a lot of combinations to find+try, and that i feel like the worry with more stats isnt that it gives more combinations that are meaningfully different, it just means you have to manage more levers to hit the sweet spot you want.

idk, i will drop this since i can tell this is definitely getting to specifics i dont have the experience to speak confidently on.

[polar osprey]

so sitting in the garage for hours on end comparing parts and looking at stats is great

[polar osprey]

fair enough

but i do like it even if it can potentially devolve into more min-maxy territory

and for me there is also another layer

which i think is equally important to stats

which is looks

[dusk summit]

i can see that

[polar osprey]

i balance all my AC's and NEXT's between performance and aesthetics

which adds even more complexity

[radiant birch]

I mean, I can't speak for anyone else, but my approach to building an AC is less "find and try" and more "I have a concept, which parts fit that?"

[cursive agate]

The number of booster slots in AC4 seem kinda excessive unless you're really deep into things.
AC6 has tried a lot to make most parts useful/have a niche in some way.

[polar osprey]

which also makes the more granular building style a lot more fun for me

[dusk summit]

thats what i was trying to say.

[radiant birch]

Whether it's having a weapon I want to use or a combat loop in mind

[polar osprey]

since i have more possibility to fuck around with the stats and parts

[radiant birch]

And to me, more options = more likelihood that I find something that works with what I'm going for

[polar osprey]

mhm

[radiant birch]

Rather than something that's not quite there

[polar osprey]

like my playstyles in AC6 and For Answer ended up being extremely different just because i had different stuff to work with

i did a pretty mid range machine gun build in AC6 which focused on extremely consistent damage output and overall consistent performance

whereas in For Answer i jumped on the ultra-heavyweight train and just made a beefy as fuck NEXT with the biggest guns i could and tailored all my different parts for armor and a slower playstyle

i tweaked it to be able to strafe well since it was slower

and focused tuning on turning speed

[dusk summit]

you have a goal of a statline you want to get close too.

admitteldy more part slots/tuning, that can make customzation more or less difficult. more difficult in that its more variables to manage, less difficult in that their might be more combitations that get you to the same place: ike is it easier to fit a few big things or a bunch of little things in a box.

[polar osprey]

i don't think AC6 being more simple is bad at all

and i really do enjoy the transition into more newbie friendly layouts in all the controls and shit

but i do wish we would get a modern game with a way more granular building system

[polar osprey]

keeping in mind that as a newbie myself this definitely helped me get into the game a lot

[dusk summit]

im wondering, how did the specific factors effecting gameplay/build variety change over the course of the souls-bourne-ring games.

like is there a distinct arc to those games that might indicate from's approach in the future

i have gone fully into recreational speculation land, i hope thats ok

[radiant birch]

My problem with OS upgrades is not that they're a simpler choice, it's that they're not a choice at all. Unless you're deliberately trying to do a challenge run, the correct choice is to unlock all of them

[polar osprey]

yeah OS doesn't do anything aside from just, make you better slowly

[radiant birch]

That's just not interesting to me at all

[polar osprey]

there is an illusion of choice

while you're going through the game

but you just end up unlocking everything

so it doesn't actually matter at all

[dusk summit]

yeah a lot of modern games do that and im not a fan

[cursive agate]

Has the strongest effect in playthough 1 I think, since you're tight on OS Chips

[radiant birch]

I mean ultimately it's fine, plenty of games give you that kind of across the board power progression, it's not an incorrect design choice

[dusk summit]

like hfw and ghost of tushima both let you unlock most of the relevant upgrades 2/3rds of the way through.

[polar osprey]

it's not necessarily bad but tuning is just better

i think

[radiant birch]

It's just, to me, not one that jibes with what appeals to me about AC6

[polar osprey]

mhm

i get that

honestly

as soon as i unlocked the like, actual parts that change gameplay

like kicking

[cursive agate]

I think AC4-like turning could be nice if the main game isn't balanced around using it?

[polar osprey]

i basically stopped caring

[polar osprey]

i would much rather keep going with what we have now with soft and hardlock cause the aiming shit was something i really did not enjoy in 4

and i just cannot for the life of me do quick turns

the combination of buttons and shit you gotta do is so fucking unintuitive

"stop moving so you can turn" just does not make sense to me at all

[cursive agate]

In my experiences, quick turns seem to require stopping, holding boost, then tapping a direction, which snags really hard with AC6's pace.

[polar osprey]

yeah

it was not good in ACFA either because you're going at like

500 km/h

and stopping to turn constantly when your enemy is also fucking zooming around at 500 km/h means you gotta really get it down good

[radiant birch]

I never did get quick turning in 6

[polar osprey]

aiming in older games is waaaay more important than in AC6

[radiant birch]

But I am a hardlock gremlin

[polar osprey]

which was a real detriment to my enjoyment of ACFA as someone who is not good at it even with a keyboard and mouse

i also hardlock exclusively

which has to be my favourite QoL thing in AC6

you get support for people who want or need hardlock but also benefits for anyone who wants to use softlock

it's a really good way of doing it

hardlock in ACFA didn't do much so aiming was extremely important and i always felt like i just couldn't because of how turn speed worked

[dusk summit]

the comprimise solution ive heard is make hard lock on still a thing that moves the camera for you, but make it so there is a stat for the maximum turn speed it can go before it cant keep up and breaks lot. That or make acs lock on speed inversely proportional to how fast the hard lock is moving the camera

[cursive agate]

I started off using soft lock for the most part, but mostly use hard lock now at close-ranges (especially with melee to improve tracking).

I think I've seen FCS lock struggle to keep up with hella fast enemies in AC6, but most ACs don't move fast/far enough to fully throw off the FCS for extended periods.

[radiant birch]

Not for extended periods, no. Tagging an enemy with a slow-firing weapon can be a headache if they're jumping around a lot

[polar osprey]

idk i like how the combat flow is in AC6 so i wouldn't want to change it up too much personally

[cursive agate]

Ah, yea. Jumping absolutely wrecks AC6's targeting, and lighter frames can abuse that heavily too.

[polar osprey]

turn speed kinda makes sense but i also don't really enjoy it in practice

[radiant birch]

I feel like in 6 the art is less in aiming and more in when to pull the trigger

[polar osprey]

this exactly

which i like

i think it was mentioned by Saltuga earlier but AC6 is not so much built around aiming like older games are

which is something i think is very positive

[cursive agate]

Yeeeea, that's how I've gone to using no automatic weapons and using Laser Cannons/Bazooka for poking.

[polar osprey]

cause in older games it seems like an extreme skill check

either you are good at the game and can aim or you're not and you lose

which is not so much a problem in AC6

but the game also does still reward you for learning it with softlock benefits

which is also really good design

just makes it accessible

[surreal tundra]

adding those option to the 2x taller gen6 ACs would be fuuun mxzcnmnv
tho Iunno how the tank legs could do it lmao

[surreal tundra]

maybe having both? as like a general baseline that gets better as you progress for the OS-upgrade and then tuning for even further stuff? balancing for both tho, obvs

[surreal tundra]

quick-turns as it is is like- I suppose a bit less likely to QB instead? iunnno

[grave jolt]

Oof right where the sun don't shine.

[languid sand]

ARMORED CORE ARMORED CORE

[modern whale]

I have only played parts of AC1 and Master of Arena so far

but Armored Core rocks

[small stone]

Lmao

[serene kettle]

Master of Arena is my favorite entry in the series, though I fully recognize that as being very very nostalgia goggles lol

[modern whale]

Once I learn how to remap the aim controls I'll put an honest shot into playing it again

[modern whale]

I caved

[serene kettle]

Have fun! Be careful in this thread though because people talk in unmarked spoilers all the time and the story keeps going to ng++

[modern whale]

Oh I am not a like

Person concerned about spoilers

I watched playthroughs and Vaati

(And Quelaag's singular ramble vid that got lost when her channel was hacked)

[wraith pendant]

Starting ac6 back up again and remembering that I stopped last time not because the missions were too hard but because (spoilers for chapter 5)||I don't want to kill Carla and chatty but I also don't want Ayre to be sad :(||

[quick hatch]

classic fromsoft bby

[serene kettle]

AC6 is honestly one of the less bleak multiple-ending games (most Armored Core games only have one ending)

Admittedly it's really only competing with Last Raven and For Answer there

(other games might have multiple routes but they usually converge toward the end)

[polar osprey]

Time for

Old King Ending

[patent oyster]

If you're stuck on any part of the game, feel free to ask for help!

[serene kettle]

AC1 is a good example of what I mean by this - You can embark on the route that destroys Chrome or the route that destroys Murakumo, but the other corp collapses anyway and the last few missions are the same

[modern whale]

Will do!

[patent oyster]

The people here are all really helpful

I still remember that one time when we spent a solid week helping someone through one of the bossfights

(No spoilers ofc)

[modern whale]

PCA HELICOPTER DOWN SECOND ATTEMPT WOOO

[cursive agate]

Nice!

[modern whale]

The combat in this game is everything I've ever wanted in a mecha game

very straightforward and fast-paced but still demands you keep your brain on

Like I am overjoyed that my machine hurdles around at mach 3 this is amazing

[polar osprey]

AC6 is a very well designed game

[patent oyster]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246869743298809867/1247149184570884166/Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp_37.mp4?ex=665ef9b0&is=665da830&hm=223caf2f6e7a3235d5d01c3cc99f2e84d6c6e4cfc03bb496033813362bbcc041&

@eager vector

Fun fact

Laser lance can course correct halfway through its charged attack sequence

[eager vector]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[patent oyster]

Even if your target is inside smoke, as long as you aim roughly in their direction, you'll probably land

I think this makes laser lance possibly one of the most effective weapons for approaching someone inside jamming

Obviously you can just run into the cloud to lock on again

When using any other weapon

But with laser lance you can start your attack sequence from outside jamming

Rather than needing to get within 100m of your opponent

[patent oyster]

i think laser blade is the only other melee weapon that can do it

and that thing's charged attack moves pretty slowly

laser dagger also works somewhat, but you lose a lot of the utility of charged dagger slings

[modern whale]

Now that I'm through the first mission I guess I should do some of Allmind's simulations before digging into my first contract

I need customization materials please scary AI woman

[cursive agate]

The mercenary certification simulations give you free parts too 👀

[modern whale]

Precisely my thoughts 😌

[wraith pendant]

Laser lance my beloved

I don't have a screenshot of my current build but I'm running laser lance/default sword on my left and that single fire/burst AR with some missile pods on the right and it's a lot of fun

[polar osprey]

i have a build with Laser Lance but i haven't used it much

[wraith pendant]

The gap-close into immediate double sword swing is so nice

[polar osprey]

Double Sunrise

[languid sand]

Armored core 3 is pretty chill actually

Also are shotguns still good in ac6?

[serene kettle]

Uh. Yes.

[keen hedge]

Shotguns are gnarly, were The Meta Pick at the games start

[serene kettle]

Zimmermans have been nerfed a couple times I think but they were meta-defining for a while and they're still very powerful

and the other shotguns are also solid, though less dominating

[eager vector]

I’ve been running through the whole game on a quad with dual haldemans and dual LCS

haldy’s do work

[modern whale]

Well, there goes ||Mister Balam anime protaganist||

[polar osprey]

Yay

[eager vector]

What kinda builds have you liked so far?

[patent oyster]

Zimmshield is still meta

[patent oyster]

They nerfed and then partially unnerfed them

[eager vector]

what was the partial unnerf?

[patent oyster]

Im mistaken about an actual damage/impact value tweak

I think its just that since lightweights cant stagger midweights as quickly after the viento nerf, they're much more vulnerable to dual zimmer builds

So in that sense, its a "soft" buff

[eager vector]

Gotcha

[patent oyster]

Its moreso "the builds that can use dual zimms effectively" that got buffed

Which in turn, made zimms more viable

[modern whale]

I haven't saved up enough yet to go for a wholly unique build yet, so I've mostly just improved my boosters, generator, and added a left shoulder missile launcher

[languid sand]

Then my build still works

Single shotgun, pulse blade, songbirds and plasma missiles

Perfectly functional and that's it

[serene kettle]

This was basically my first playthrough

though I used a plasma rifle over the shotgun

[modern whale]

I think in honour of my old AC1 build, I'll probably keep a sword on my mech regardless of what I come across

[serene kettle]

well the good news is the starting Pulse Sword is really good

they really do just deadass give you a top tier weapon right out the gate

[modern whale]

It really is, I did a test sim and held out a good minute or two after running out of weapon ammo with it

[surreal tundra]

With kicks and punches, I think if you play right you can get through a bit XD

[modern whale]

I can probably do even better once I get dodging down better

[serene kettle]

it's just a hell of a multitool. It has PA interference so it does well against Pulse Armor, it has 230 direct hit so it's one of the better stagger punishes out there, it's got a strong lunge that gives it a lot of bonus mobility and makes it easier to use than some other weapons, and its base damage/stagger are nothing to scoff at either.

[modern whale]

I'm def gonna experiment with some of the later sword models that I've seen

[surreal tundra]

Mm mm,
But whatever the case it's usually pretty good to keep on- when you get weapon bays you can get two melee weapons XD

*if you wanna go all-in on dodge-and-melee-up-close

[modern whale]

hell yeah piledriver

but yeah so far just enjoying the sheer fire output I can pull off with my right hand gun and two missile launchers

[patent oyster]

Its PA interference doesnt really do much against shields though unfortunately

[serene kettle]

Eh, it definitely chunks them, since it already has decent stagger

[patent oyster]

Since shields reduce impact, it doesnt do well in that area either

But tbh 61ps essentially invalidates most melee plays unless you get real creative with the melee cancels

I know someone who mains laser dagger, and he's developed a technique that leverages the fact that laser dagger moves faster than an AC's hard lock to get around a shield

But that requires him to play at 100% all the time

[cursive agate]

I've noticed that PA Interference's bonus Impact/Accumulative Impact works around the reduction to pulse armor/pulse shoulder shields, which adds up faster than most other melees in my experiences.
Won't break shields by itself, but it'll hurt if you get swings in.

[serene kettle]

I know it was a huge help when I was just starting out and struggling against Balteus

[cursive agate]

I haven't used the Laser melees as much since they seem to get walled harder by Pulse defenses, they have higher Impact but the lower PA Interference seems to hurt much more

[languid sand]

I'm also using the ortus set with the nach arms to speed blitz the fuck out of everyone

[patent oyster]

It still gets its impact reduced, the charged attack hitstun doesnt happen (iirc), and you're stanced in exchange

[small stone]

For Ala Iacta Est do I pick Eliminate the Enforcement Squads or Destroy the Special Forces Craft

[patent oyster]

iirc ||this particular choice doesnt matter, so pick whichever you want||

[small stone]

Ooh ok

I’ve never done enforcement craft

[serene kettle]

For Alea Iacta Est you should take new missions whenever available but otherwise don't worry yeah

[patent oyster]

Do it for the sake of completion

Wait a sec in that case ||was BAWS arsenal NG++ (obstruct the mandatory inspection) the first time you've fought the cataphract||???

[small stone]

Yeah

It was a new mission

[patent oyster]

Most people find eliminate the enforcement squads to be the harder mission, and choose to do destroy the special forces craft first

[small stone]

I did enforcement because I was told it’s how to get FoR

[serene kettle]

FWIW I did Enforcement Squads first

It's absolutely the harder mission, it just didn't occur to me to try backing out and doing special forces craft instead

after a few deaths there

[patent oyster]

For LoR and FoR, it ||doesnt matter what missions you take until the point where you choose whether to betray carla or not||

[patent oyster]

I tried ||killing ring freddie for the combat log|| first to kill two birds with one stone on my first few attempts at it, but i just settled for doing it in two runs

[quick hatch]

my big struggle busses were balteus and the final bosses

[patent oyster]

I spent way too long on smart cleaner somehow

I genuinely dont know why

||cel 240 and ayre|| were also difficult but that's mainly because i didnt know how to use hard lock properly on my first playthrough

[quick hatch]

this is still hilarious to me

[serene kettle]

100% Balteus and Cel 240 for me

though C-Spider also took more than a few tries

[patent oyster]

I dont take my death count into consideration when i think about boss difficulty

I can die a few times, but if i figure out new things i can do to optimise my gameplay then its a net positive

Difficult bosses take a lot longer to figure out and frustrate me way more

[serene kettle]

though these days I think Snailteus might be the actual hardest boss

[quick hatch]

balteus just turns on touhou while you arent looking

[serene kettle]

it's the only one I have yet to beat with Lumberjack

[patent oyster]

Thats the chainsaw one right

[serene kettle]

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fthe-terrifying-balteus-chan-v0-a0pyzey8awkb1.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D95f0cb5c08eeca1fd0f36134baa3bdc2a3c1029c

[serene kettle]

yeah, that's my chainsaw and fist build

[patent oyster]

I miss the pre nerf missile speed

Made it more exciting to fight

The missiles are just not as oppressive as before

[serene kettle]

Balteus is funny for me because it reminded me immediately of (an easier) N-WGIX from Verdict Day

[patent oyster]

I think thats just more of a case of lumberjack not being the best AC to fight him with

[serene kettle]

I mean, you're not wrong!

I got a lot of whiffs on a staggered snailteus where I would have absolutely hit with any other weapon

[patent oyster]

||snailteus|| recovers PA a lot faster than regular balt

So you have a smaller window to get a good angle for saw

[serene kettle]

Yeah, and the hitbox is very wonky, there are lots of angles where it just will not hit no matter how your spacing is

[surreal haven]

LOVING how this screenshot turned out

[small stone]

Allmind what the fuck

I thought the RLF was on our side

[serene kettle]

ALLMIND exists for all mercenaries. Thumb Dolmayan was an obstacle to Coral Release. We hope this has been informative.

I love this encounter so much just because it's such a moment of incredible badassery for Dolmayan. The Arena Sim vastly underestimated him

like 621 wins because 621 always wins, but holy shit

[small stone]

I feel like this is a terrible mistake

The RLF seem like good people

Killing their leader…

[serene kettle]

His ranting is pretty informative if you pay attention to what he's saying too

[small stone]

Yeah uh

I’m getting more and more doubtful this is the good ending

[serene kettle]

😇

you can find Dolmayan's Writings as data logs in some places. The one hidden at BAWS Arsenal feels especially relevant (besides the one already in the mission where you fight him)

[modern whale]

ALLMIND is ||on ALLMIND's side|| NG++ spoilers(?)

[eager vector]

I need to draw that fight out next time

[serene kettle]

I'm pretty sure his lines are tied to his use of repair kits, fwiw

[eager vector]

right so if I skip a bunch of AP thresholds…

[cursive agate]

"hold this pile bunker"

[patent oyster]

@eager vector

[surreal tundra]

61ps?

[patent oyster]

Vp61ps shield

[surreal tundra]

Oh that's adorable djdnfng

[modern whale]

I love the idea of giving the mechs themselves humansonas

[patent oyster]

I could probably use truenos on left shoulder for the punish

Since if an opponent isnt moving when staggered, you can fire truenos without lock and they'll hit

[surreal tundra]

mecha musume XD

or iunno

[wooden nimbus]

I mean with enough access to customization isn't the idea that a pilot and their vehicle would ideally become one another's -sona

[surreal tundra]

UwU

[grave jolt]

Sigh The job's almost done walter...

[polar osprey]

i've been sitting on this for a while

doing all S-ranks has not been fun so i've been taking a break from it

[radiant birch]

yeah

i don't think i am ever going to go for 100% S-Rank

because i really like this game, and i would like to continue not hating it

[modern whale]

^

I'm not doing much focus on the achievements in fromsoft games

[polar osprey]

Same tbh

[radiant birch]

hell, i still have some combat logs i haven't gotten around to yet

apparently at least one still in the ||Ibis|| mission

[polar osprey]

i only have s-ranks to go

[radiant birch]

and one in ||the helicopter escort mission||

i should go and knock those out sometime here, but... eh

[grave jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/kamen-rider-ryuki-dissapointed-sad-仮面ライダー龍騎-shinji-kido-gif-21980902

||ALLMIND Iguazu has a fucking parry!?||

||I just tried to Boost kick him and he parried me!!||

[polar osprey]

rat

[grave jolt]

||You know what. I consider him a good pilot now, because he can straight up parry us!||

[radiant birch]

||"fucking casual" - G5 Iguazu 3024||

[polar osprey]

||i don't, Iguazu fucking sucks||

||he had to pull a AI hivemind and an insanely jacked god machine AC to get even close to being competent||

[grave jolt]

||"I always...envied you..."||
||"The freelancer...who had it all..."||

||...i did it. Now to S-ranking it.||

[polar osprey]

||Iguazu whines so fucking much||

[grave jolt]

||...You're shitting me...just that simple?||

[polar osprey]

yeah

||the final bosses are actually very easy to S-rank||

[polar osprey]

based

[serene kettle]

most boss missions are fairly easy to S-rank

[polar osprey]

yeah

surprisingly so

i think i got them all first try

[serene kettle]

the hardest one is probably ice worm

because it requires a little bit of learning the mission to do it in a timely manner

[polar osprey]

makes sense

[grave jolt]

||Hey...walter. Got that job done for you.||

||After iguazu everything was...simple. Like i didn't need about so many things...||

[polar osprey]

niiiice

[grave jolt]

||Felt like the victory lap.||

[polar osprey]

i probably won't be seeing that achievement personally

just cause ||doing all the S-rank missions|| kinda sucks the joy out of playing the game

[serene kettle]

I thought it was going to be a lot worse than it was

Aside from a few problems like BAWS arsenal and the Ice Worm most missions were one or two tries to S-rank

[polar osprey]

i think i probably just need to do all the easier ones first and them try doing the difficult ones one at a time

[modern whale]

CLIMBED THE WALL

I know Balteus is somewhere in my future

Prolly gonna like, actually think about the build I take into that one

[patent oyster]

Remember, just have fun and take breaks when needed

[patent oyster]

Coral export denial continues to be the bane of my existence

[serene kettle]

I found that one a lot easier going to the very end of the canyon for the final wave

To maximize time to fire at them as they approach

[patent oyster]

The other two i havent s ranked is prevent the secret data breach and ||regain control of the xylem||

I have a pretty bad sense of direction so maze maps always get me if i dont have a minimap to follow

[serene kettle]

Yeah those two are tricky

I struggled with the latter partly because doing the last sequence without a lot of damage requires some careful maneuvering

[patent oyster]

Honestly i found S ranking boss missions super easy

[serene kettle]

Yeah the boss missions mostly aren’t bad

[patent oyster]

Its the weird missions and boring ones that are annoying

[serene kettle]

The only “trick” is not using checkpoints

The main exception is Ice Worm, which is very hard to S rank without some technique and learning where it ermerges

[patent oyster]

ice worm was pretty straightforward tbh

[serene kettle]

BAWS Arsenal and Attack the Refueling Base are also fairly tough S ranks for some reason - really tight requirements

[patent oyster]

When i finally went back to try it, i had forgotten all the speedrun tricks for it so i just did it normally

And somehow i s ranked with no issue

[serene kettle]

Huh. I absolutely could not without at least “skipping” phase 1

[patent oyster]

BAWS arsenal #2 is mostly about learning the ghost positions in the first half of the mission, 2nd half you just need to kill the shielded one fast and you're golden

Attack the refueling base was confusingly difficult to s rank for me, until i remembered i could kill fodder for points

[serene kettle]

Yeah, it’s just real tight. If a ghost survives your opening shot to teleport, you might as well start over. Too much lost time

[patent oyster]

Killing all the units right under where you spawn + the LC gave me an easy S rank

No rushing required

[patent oyster]

I think i still did that, its a fairly easy skip since ice worm is coded to move the same way each time

[serene kettle]

Yeah

[patent oyster]

I flubbed the 2nd and 3rd skip though

So i thought i wouldnt get it

[patent oyster]

For the last part, load up on energy weapon defense and just AB

Its getting to the room that's the annoying part imo

[serene kettle]

I mean, I’ve long since done all of them lol

That’s a fun trick that hadn’t occurred to me tho

The energy resist part specifically

[patent oyster]

Or use pulse protection in the middle of the room

[serene kettle]

Oh that’s hysterical

I did use pulse protection for the suicide drone wave in take control of the Xylem

It’s very niche but absolutely useful for some funny strats

[modern whale]

Balteus was my last one for the night

Third attempt!

I ran dual missile launchers, a pulse blade, and handgun on the first medium Balam frame you get

Named the build SLAPFIGHT though it's definitely not anything outrageous or unique

I also unlocked assault armour but it didn't really do much for me during the fight since Balteus moves around too quick

[serene kettle]

balty moves quick but frequently just kind of bobs without moving too much. I found AA to be pretty effective during the fight!

it's my favorite of the core expansions in general though

[modern whale]

I can definitely see the appeal, it'll just take me some time to master it

[cursive agate]

Assault Armor is tricky to land because of windup time and small peak damage area of point-blank.

I've used Pulse Armor a lot more to escape stagger early, but it's really fun to blow away shields/pulse armor with AA activation.

[modern whale]

definitely quicker than slapping it once every 30 seconds with the pulse blade

[patent oyster]

Use AA as a stagger punish or when they're standing still

[modern whale]

💪 will do next time I'm taking it on

I also nailed Sulla on my like 4th try

I definitely need to get better at tackling ACs that are about as fast or faster than mine

[serene kettle]

I accidentally convinced my multiplayer friends that pulse armor was basically garbage because I got very good at blowing right through it with perfectly timed AA lmao

casual multiplayer, only play with each other really, friends, to be clear

[modern whale]

fair, I got one friend who I'm gonna be duelling sooner or later

[patent oyster]

Honestly the value in pulse armour is the ability to reliably reset your stagger bar

[modern whale]

I'm thinking I'll slow down when I get back at it and rerun a couple levels just to experiment with builds

[patent oyster]

Not even the brief invuln

[serene kettle]

Yeah pulse armor is very powerful, and being honest better than AA

[patent oyster]

AA in pvp is very susceptible to netcode issues

[serene kettle]

but I was fairly consistently able to get point blank and AA when they were in the PA animation, and AA will instantly blow through it and stagger them in the sweet spot

[patent oyster]

Since your opponent may not actually be where they are on your screen

[serene kettle]

could I consistently do this in ranked? Almost definitely not

[patent oyster]

And thats not even mentioning the fact that AA can be parried with 61ps

And assault boost

[modern whale]

Oh yeah I grabbed assault boost kick

another one I'll have to practice

all in all even though I've done pretty alright for myself so far I'm definitely seeing a lot of room to improve in

[serene kettle]

oh yeah, boost kick is flat out the most important os upgrade

it's insanely good for every build

[patent oyster]

That and weapon bays

[modern whale]

I've also only been even more convinced to keep a melee of some kind in my left hand

[cursive agate]

Boost Kick has a lot of utility, though I've been using it less with recent builds.

[modern whale]

hardcore been a massive boon in almost all my boss fights

[serene kettle]

you're not wrong but also I have never used the weapon bays in AC6

[patent oyster]

Wait seriously?

[serene kettle]

Nope.

[modern whale]

I did unlock weapon bays but I'm reluctant to surrender a missile launcher for it

[cursive agate]

Melee cranks out massive damage vs staggered for sure.

[patent oyster]

(Fyi the handheld 4 cell missiles have better dps than the shoulder ones)

[cursive agate]

I'd probably use weapon bays more on non-Quad/Tank builds, shoulder weapon firepower, and shooting without swap time is too good for me to give up.

[serene kettle]

yeah that's largely been my logic

Lots of people love the bays and I certainly got plenty of use out of the similar mechanic in Verdict Day

just never really messed with them in AC6

[modern whale]

I'll probably give them a shot at some point just because trying earlier on could save me grief down the line when it comes to knowing how to use it

[patent oyster]

Weapons bays are real useful if you want to dual wield hand weapons but still have a melee punish

I managed to convergent evolution myself into becoming a BVO (basho arms, dual vientos, ocellus fcs) build in my first playthrough

[modern whale]

anyways I gotta sleep, I'm glad I beat the second noob filter

[grave jolt]

A proud showing of accomplishment, Like a blazing star, for all those to see!

It's a little egotistical i admit, but what's wrong with showing off a little? 😉

[polar osprey]

fair tbh

looks fun

[modern whale]

Sea Spider's down

[small stone]

Well

I didn't fight Ibis

And I do want symbiosis for Ayre

Idk this seems complicated

I want to be hopeful

I'm hopeful for the future.

[serene kettle]

I do love the surprise berserk Iguazu rematch

it's also very funny that as much as he personally hates you at that point, he's still like "dude, fuck you snail" when he tries to make common cause

[small stone]

WHAT THE FUCK

Oh

HOLY FUCK ALLMIND

[modern whale]

I've tried out the weapon bays, it's actually what won me against sea spider

went in against that thing with dual bazookas, a shoulder cannon, and sword

big fan of bigass enemies, I can just slap them with some of the highest-caliber shit the game gives you reliably

[small stone]

MY WIFE IS WITH ME

I WILL WIN I SWEAR

[modern whale]

I am NOT a big fan of the stealth mission to kill V seven though

[eager vector]

@small stone did you know that when you finish the first and second phases, the enemy adds despawn?

[small stone]

Oh

[eager vector]

Yeah you don’t have to get rid of them you can focus the boss

[cursive agate]

I think it goes better when you factor in the windup time of cameras, and blow away the MTs before it fires.

[eager vector]

yeah doing that mission without getting seen at all is very hard but doing it without the alarm being raised is very reasonable

[modern whale]

Yeah I just gotta be faster on the uptake with that

[modern whale]

At the least I think I cleared through a third of the sentries last attempt

[modern whale]

nailed the PCA goon squad

[wet shard]

Did I ever send the finished model here?

I know I sent it in the gunpla chat but

may as well send it again

[waxen nest]

👀

[modern whale]

That fucks

[grave jolt]

"The corporations, the AC's, the "Raven's nest"."
"All of these were formed by me."
"For the sole purpose of recreating the world and humankind with it!"
"That was the duty to which i was entrusted."
"TARGET VERIFIED: COMMENCING HOSTILITIES!"

[kind halo]

god i have just been absolutely flattened by a helluva losing streak

went from almost at B-3 to halfway B-1

genuinely has me wondering if im totally washed

[dusk summit]

https://redroryotheglen.itch.io/hammer

has anyone here played this? i was wondering how similar in controls this is to armored core (esp 5th gen, since i think this is what the fangame is based on)

its a really barebones demo, basically just a single map with waves of objectives, and a few different frames/weapons to play around with.

i find myself at once like, frustrated and very engaged with the movement system.

[serene kettle]

I haven't played it but the video makes it look like a much floatier ACV, yeah

some of the UI is lifted straight out of AC2 as well

namely the missile locks

this absolutely looks like oldgen armored core but probably plays closer to ACV

[polar osprey]

from what i got of ACV it's a lot more grounded than this

[serene kettle]

yeah I think the main difference is this is way floatier movement-wise

[polar osprey]

ACV is very grounded

as far as i understand

[serene kettle]

it's still got a lot of boost-jumping and not a lot of hugely aerial movement, but you'd lose altitude much faster while "gliding" than the pilot here seems to

[polar osprey]

yeah

that's what i meant

you can't really fly around based on what i saw

not like you can in other AC games

[modern whale]

I'll have to give it a look next time I'm on pc

[polar osprey]

in 4/4A you can straight up just fly, in 6 you can also fly around pretty effectively

ACV is different in that regard

i need to go back and play AC3 at some point soon

[serene kettle]

4/4A and 6 definitely have the most flight

[polar osprey]

4/4A is probably the most flight capable

4A for sure

even my fucking brick shit house rock of a NEXT could fly for long enough that it genuinely didn't matter 90% of the time

and Dash Pinion is a fatass Ultra-heavyweight

[serene kettle]

you can get a decent amount of air in 5, but you can't fly per se, it's more environmental

what you can do is walljump and glide

which does allow for some degree of aerial movement, especially on lighter mechs

[polar osprey]

yeah

[serene kettle]

but your ability to gain altitude is highly environment-dependent

this looks to be similar in that regard, but much floatier, such that it isn't nearly as big a deal

[polar osprey]

yeah

in 4/4A and 6 you can just

go up

very easily

[serene kettle]

mhm

[polar osprey]

if you want to you can do it

simple as

[serene kettle]

you can also just kind of rise when you want in oldgen, but the boost meter is a much more serious limiter - there's no quick boosting and the boost meter is for your regular boosters

without it you are walking

it's more efficient to slide than fly, but you'll still run out if you skate everywhere without breaks

[polar osprey]

huh

interesting

[serene kettle]

biped legs can jump without boosters but it's generally smaller jump heights than like AC6 jumps

or ACV jumps

[dusk summit]

the control scheme is like, not impossible to get your hands on but im not there yet.

almost everything is done using spacebar:

-tap to do a short thruster burst
-hold to toggle a continuous but less powerful thruster burst
-holding a direction while boosting causes those thrusters to go in that direction, doing it without holding wasd causes you to go upwards
-sideways continuous bursts and just your horizontal movement in general maintain speed and have a big turning radius unless you use a sideways short burst to reset your velocity
-press shift once to turn off any sideways or vertical continuous boosts you have going on, press again to turn off thrusters entirely, allowing you to fall and regen energy faster.

sideways and vertical movement having the same key really gets to me.

[serene kettle]

yeah that's oldgen movement

there's one thrust button, you use it with a direction or in neutral to go up

(if you're already in the air, all use of the boosters will direct you up in addition to any direction you push - if you're grounded, directional thrust will only move you horizontally)

[modern whale]

My biggest adjustment to AC6 from the bit of AC1 and MoA I played is probably there being like, four thrust buttons

[serene kettle]

Yeah QBs and Assault boosting would be new

Though you generally have skate boosting always-on in ac6

Compared to AC1 where you manage your meter to boost at all and stopping your boost to throw off shots is part of dodging

[languid sand]

I hope they drop this in the dlc

It would be really funny the pca was that fudger the whole time

[serene kettle]

ALLMIND is pretty clearly the nineball homage already though

Introducing actual Nineball would be…clunky

[ember carbon]

I wish to be the PCA in the DLC
I desire to role play the space cops telling the corporations to get off the restricted planet

[languid sand]

I just want to be paid to commit terrorism again

That was always a joy

Wasn't enough morally incredibly black dirty work in armored core 6

Let me get paid to be a bastard

[polar osprey]

time for

O L D K I N G

[languid sand]

Anyways my hope for any new armored core games is for the NPC's to be cheating bastards again

[languid sand]

ONE DOWN, TWENTY MILLION DEAD

S I X T Y M I L L I O N

[serene kettle]

God that mission is so silly

[languid sand]

** E I G H T Y M I L L I O N **

[serene kettle]

What even is scale

[languid sand]

one hundred million

DONE

[polar osprey]

Old King is a goofy dude

[languid sand]

Just a silly little guy

Actually have a character on my lancer leader board that's a funny mix of old King, sundowner, and conrad from heart of darkness

[polar osprey]

love me some murderous maniacs

Sundowner is also hilarious

"Kids are cruel jack, and i'm VERY IN TOUCH WITH MY INNER CHILD!"

[languid sand]

Dude just fucking loves war

And gets to lead the convict squad because he's the predictable one

You can understand ogre guy loves war

You'll never get Quebec

And Stella is at best unpredictable

[serene kettle]

“Give War a Chance!”

[polar osprey]

he's also a funny little guy

[serene kettle]

He’s so over-the-top ludicrously evil

[languid sand]

There's not a single character on my lancer leaderboard who isint an expy for someone else

[polar osprey]

Old King outranks him massively for death dealing though

[serene kettle]

Yeah i had one of those when i ran chromestrike back in the day

[languid sand]

Ogre is technically the thing that caused the whole campaign in the first place

Dude turned the dominant back on just because he missed war

[serene kettle]

Most of them were loose adaptations of characters from other media, song references, or old dnd characters

[languid sand]

Baller

Mine are just references to armored core, games I like and old movies

Some of them are worse than others

Like the group that is just the stellaron hunters

Or not vertex

Lead by not jack-0

[serene kettle]

Jill-Q

[languid sand]

Jung

But still

Or gigan the totally not just a giant nerd with a robot

Or Enter name here

Who forgot to enter her name

And pilots the creatively named White Glint

Or we can't forget the number one pilot

Just zinaida

[serene kettle]

My #1 pilot was listed as “Narcissus, AC Narcissus”

[languid sand]

Hah

I can guess his folley

[languid sand]

She's just a giant honkai star rail reference and totally doesn't have an alien NHP's esque thing giving her power

I also just mentioned Ort from fate just exists in here for some reason in the background lore for why people care so much about one planet

I'm addicted to adding huge implications in small bits of background lore

[serene kettle]

Oh dear

[languid sand]

There's laws about not leaving random weird alien things unsecure after Ort

That's all I'm saying

Put it in a warehouse if it doesn't do anything to you

If it does do something back away slowly and go in another direction

[patent oyster]

https://youtu.be/19Kxm8xQLcI?si=XWJt6nXohuZZBHHk

1:00:14

@eager vector i can finally reveal one of the builds ive worked on

[eager vector]

ooooh!!!

siiiiick

[patent oyster]

Gameplay explanation by the build's owner at 11:47

[modern whale]

Is there gonna be a dlc?

[languid sand]

Probably

Hopefully it will just be a standalone expansion again

[modern whale]

Sorry discord loaded me in all the way back there

[languid sand]

Those rule

[modern whale]

It would rock fr tho

[patent oyster]

I didnt realise the map changes before and after attack the watchpoint

[eager vector]

:0

me neither

[surreal tundra]

goshdang XD

[surreal tundra]

given how big we already know other places are, by the goddess it paints a picture of how friggin scary it is when even just a "trickle"/somethign that "barely compares" blows up so fucking much XD

[patent oyster]

The builds owner is so dang good at the game

And he's a jamming user

[surreal tundra]

ohmygoddess the melee techs xmnc XD

ooooh

I wonder which of them would still happen in the next game/s

[surreal tundra]

mm mm XD

[eager vector]

Yeah that video is fascinating

[languid sand]

Should have sent a second balteus

[wooden nimbus]

Then I could kill two Balteus

[languid sand]

Balteui

[modern whale]

I feel like Balteui could be manageable

[languid sand]

Probably

That's something for armored core 6.5 now with jamming music

[wooden nimbus]

I wanna do a Double Balteus fight yeah

But I also wanna fight those c-weapons from the alternate strider mission more

[winter sigil]

the c-weapons from the alternate strider mission would be much more palatable were it not for the 10 million heliocanthus machines that are also there

[languid sand]

Dual flamethrowers and songbirds solved it first try for me

[winter sigil]

well I S-ranked it with flamethrowers eventually
but the wheelie boys are annoying with my usual build

[languid sand]

Hit the sides with songbirds and they fall right down

[eager vector]

I did missile quad

[languid sand]

That also works

But where's the fun if you aren't dashing between the grinding teeth of robo wheels firing at just the perfect moment?

[radiant birch]

i wiped that mission a few times and then accidentally cakewalked it with a missile rat build

[serene kettle]

yeah I was running queen of nails and s-ranked it basically by accident

bunny-hopping plus aperitifs just kind of tore it apart

[patent oyster]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1213022303890317372/1232721379372040202/180_spin.mp4?ex=66691bff&is=6667ca7f&hm=18b8905f2769678d76a88e3cb047f880e5bbb7b704d40b35abecd9589768882a&

@eager vector someone found out you can do this with lance

[grave jolt]

It's a hard job walter...but im managing.

[eager vector]

Good lord

[languid sand]

Today I'm learning most people don't use the fastest possible mech a shotgun and a pulse blade to fight like a squirrel on coke

[polar osprey]

this is true

i don't like shotguns at all

[languid sand]

They just feel so good to shoot

The kthunk

And the stun

God it's beautiful

[polar osprey]

i prefer machine guns

[languid sand]

They don't have the oomph I need

Too long to get the damage I could get from one shell

[polar osprey]

i just don't find shotguns to be nice to use or consistent at all

so i don't use them

[eager vector]

playstyle incompatibility maybe

[polar osprey]

probably

the most use i've gotten out of them was dumpstering Balteus

[languid sand]

I dumpster everything like balteus

That's my playstyle

[polar osprey]

Balteus is pretty trivial now for me no matter the build so i just play what i find fun

[cursive agate]

I've been using bazookas instead for more reach at the cost of reload time (and stance on biped/RJ legs)

[languid sand]

Bazookas are not a viable close range option

And I am never not in close range if I'm doing it right

[cursive agate]

Mmm yea
(sorta works on Quad/Tank, but you can only fire 1-by-1 still because of recoil animation, and stops AB)

Hoping whatever comes after AC6 loosens the limits of weapons with recoil stance on biped/RJ configs. I've heard AC4 had Firing Stability on legs to offset recoil.

[languid sand]

I kind of hope they do away with the stun mechanics entirely tbh

[loud peak]

The stagger?

It was present in previous games too but not as central as this one I think

Oh yeah what's the census on Scudder?

I have been using and liking them but no idea what everyone's feelings on them

[patent oyster]

Counterpoint: majestic and especially xuan ge

ET+xuan ge in cqc is a true stagger combo on LWs and some MWs

[languid sand]

Yeah the way the game is built around it kind of makes certain weapons way more viable than others

[modern whale]

I can sometimes get away with bazookas close range but I gotta be like

Very careful about it

[languid sand]

Yeah I don't have time to be careful

So I use a shotgun

All of the benefits none of the downsides

[modern whale]

My build rn is a leftover from Carla's cleaner and the Sea Spider

[languid sand]

Hover heavy