Lancer Tactics

[cursive cave]

Sorry, I was actually playing the game at the time. The sprites look great and are a delight to see in action!

[tulip peak]

no worries! Thanks! Also wish I could answer your question but I'm actually dumb of ass and don't know much about the systems

[weak willow]

i am sorry to report i am still experiencing the "can't target with a weapon because the interface thinks i'm selecting a move" bug. Oracle LMG seems to have the issue every turn

[alpine sorrel]

Oh! I just figured this out! It's because the pathfinder we fire off when you return to your gear bar sometimes takes longer on complex maps, so if you've selected a action before it finishes it overlaps and gets confused

Should not be an issue in the new no-implicit-movr paradigm, but until then if you wait for the move area to come up before making an attack, it shoooould work

[young sorrel]

Managed to beat this taking zero structure damage, which is not an easy feat for LL0, enemies spread their damage very thin and missed quite a bit

[young sorrel]

The second map also has the problem in holdouts of enemies spawning inside the holdout zone

[thin lark]

Sounds like one of the zones could do with moving over a bit. Map looks tiny though so it’s always going to have stuff spawning close…

Center is the zone holdout cares about, and then end zone is used for escort and extraction and converted into an ingress zone for holdouts

[flint portal]

Lots of this is actually me fucking up the zones

lmao

I'll try and have new versions this week

[weak willow]

The maps flow well, but the second one is chokepoint-heavy

Some teams could foresee having a hard time reaching enemies on the overlook ridge

[alpine sorrel]

When you stabilize, a submenu should come up in the bottom-right that gives you various options depending on the state of your mech. One of them should be an option to spend a repair for HP. I don't think there's actually a way to see your current repairs — that's an oversight, I'll log it.

Also, I thiiiink I've successfully updated the mac build and as a bonus actually got the signing working properly, so there won't be that annoying security box! v0.4.9 on itch; I'll wait on posting a devlog about it until I get it confirmed working.

[young sorrel]

In another episode of "surprisingly aptly named maps", if you enter a Gauntlet on Never Satisfied, it instantly causes a loss and destroys all of your mechs.

[alpine sorrel]

New build is up, with the DMG fixed on mac, hopefully for good:

https://wick.itch.io/lancer-tactics/devlog/1125388/v049-hotfix

[proud dirge]

it works!! mashallah!!!

thank you olive!!!

https://tenor.com/view/james-wilson-house-house-md-dancing-celebration-gif-10079345982150560466

[alpine sorrel]

🌟 ⭐ 🌟

[proud dirge]

now i can go check if mimic mesh and jav rockets are fixed

[young sorrel]

Not sure if bug, do tier 2 Rebake Hives have +0 to their main weapon's attack bonus?

There wasn't any difficulty on this, so I'm not sure how else it could roll a 1 at LL6

Another maybe bug report, can a rebake Mirage use Glitch Scanners to teleport one character twice?

[alpine sorrel]

yep looks like I missed adding the +2/4/6 for hive HK nexus

and no the mirage should not be able to double up like that

[young sorrel]

Well consider them both

Barrel bugs

The 10/10 mech names continue

[thin lark]

Oh no! It’s leaving white cat hairs -everywhere-!!!

[young sorrel]

And if you step on them they stick to you too

[turbid elbow]

Jaho. I think I have a bug, but I couldn't tell you whats happening. I just downloaded the most recent version for Linux. The previous version I succesfully played was 0.3.3, so a wee back.

For info, its on my old throwaway laptop, that still runs on Ubuntu 20.04, where it did run before (I know, don't at me. Its the trash laptop)

When closing the window, I get the attached error messages in Terminal.

Update: Works on my Debian 12 workstation.

[alpine sorrel]

Hello, thanks for the report. Those leaks on exit are typical (I've tried tracking them but there's always a few more). The sounds played this loop thing makes me think that there may be a problem with the fmod plugin we're using... which I have very little recourse about.

I'll make a note to try and abort using it if it looks like something went wrong for the next version, but it'll be a shot in the dark without a machine on hand to repro

[turbid elbow]

It does seem to work on Debian 12, though. Could just be that its finally time to upgrade ubuntu 20.04 or jsut get rid of that laptop altogether...

[old pivot]

so, funny story:

For three years, I worked in the development and rollout of a computer system for the insurance company I work for. This involved a lot of identifying bugs and raising bug reports. And then heaps of follow ups.

I mention this because I reported a bug last week for LT, and some small part of my brain just went "hey man, shouldn't tech team have gotten back to you about that bug report by now? You should check the Jira ticket and see if it's been missed"

...this is not a reasonable though process, and I sure as hell don't expect any such thing, but I was funny to find this mental subroutine still running

[thin lark]

The weird feeling of ownership over a bug just because you found it is 100% a real thing even though it’s also completely unreasonable :)

[alpine sorrel]

In our draft of the LT discord, we have the bug report channel set up as a forum to make it easier to visibly tag things as resolved

[thin lark]

Did I miss a link to that or is it not public yet?

[rain cipher]

draft
I assume still WIP

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah we are still figuring out what we want to do moderator/comm manager-wise

[proud dirge]

what if we promise to behave

[flint portal]

i've updated my maps I think it'll go live in a bit

mostly removed some zones

You can only play them in specific sitreps now, i think

[weak willow]

Problem is everybody naturally thinks their behavior is acceptable by default 😔

But I am here to say Happy Thanksgiving from the USA, hope everyone is having a great day

Thankful for the dev team making an awesome game

[cursive cave]

Thank you for making this game! My current Lancer playgroup is new, with only a small amount of time to play, usually only 2 turns a week or so. Thanks to you, I have gotten what would have taken me months to experience in 2-3 days.

Also, does the morning cloaks "hunter" ability not work for anyone else?

[proud dirge]

hi bug report! invigorate is busted; it wont let me invigorate a homie off another homie

also the target selection colour areas are very janky and dont show up sometimes

[alpine sorrel]

do you think the latter problem might be this? :: #1079952007915376711 message

[proud dirge]

that might be it, but it lets me target the first homie

oh wait the latter problem lol

ya the thing is the red area wont show up, i can still select a target fine

[fair pike]

Also noticed a bug recently, unsure if someone else already said something though. Sometimes when attacking, the highlighted area indicating range disappears, it sometimes flashes when hovering over things, but not super consistently

[proud dirge]

ya exactly that’s what i’m getting

[fair pike]

It's a bug that definitely came to be from the last update

[fair pike]

Found another one!
After moving a payload with one character, then moving it with another, the first character stays "attached" to the payload, meaning you can move it from significantly further away than you're supposed to, leading to situations like this

(I pushed the payload from 3 spaces away)

[weak willow]

Paracausal technology

[lethal leaf]

I found a bug like that in SpaceChem.

[alpine sorrel]

Quantum entangled payload

[small panther]

I see you're already planning ahead for the kobold license !

[rain cipher]

When making maps, is it possible to make zones/spawns specific to each sitrep, or are they always shared? It's a little awkward to design for the standard shared set in certain situations. Like the Escort end zone and... I think Gauntlet hold area being the same meaning the escort zone has to be less than full map edge, and the Gauntlet zone always has to be at the very end of the map

[old pivot]

hey, randomly, is there plans to put in the mechanics required to stop a reactor meltdown?

[thin lark]

If you want to customise just one you can set up the map’s own settings to be that sitrep but customised. You have to do the work of creating the objective triggers and reinforcement triggers yourself in that case, but it gives you freedom to do whatever with as many zones as you like. Not the most straightforward though and I don’t think it would affect the standard sitreps at all. Some sort of way of specifying zones per-sitrep as an optional extra would be nice.

[alpine sorrel]

Hm....... I'm not sure how to best approach this. The current shared-zones design has the advantage of not having to set up specific zones for every possible sitrep, now and in the future, by sharing them. But yeah I see that sharing puts somewhat opposed constraints on the same zone

I'm trying to think of what adding a new gauntlet-objective-specific zone would look like, if we wanted to split those ones up specifically

Alternatively, we could have the instant action screen be able to rearrange which of the generic zones are used for what.

so you could set up gauntlet to use objective 1 or something

[alpine sorrel]

oh, this one might have slipped of my plate actually. I'll make sure it's on the list

the new color picker is gonna be so good yall. I spent most of this week getting stuck in remaking it and figuring out how to dynamically generate interesting pixel palettes, but the extra range of options feels so worth it

[lilac anchor]

oh it looks so good

[glad lotus]

I'm so looking forward to it, looks amazing!

[alpine sorrel]

better pilot randomization controls, too

[fair pike]

Peak wth

Also I've been meaning to ask - Am I missing something or does 'exposed' from stress damage not clear after stabilizing?

[alpine sorrel]

You should be able to pick the clear heat/exposed option (not heal). If that's not working it's a bug

[glad lotus]

Yeah, you have to specifically pick clearing exposed in the stabilize menu

[weak willow]

It doesn't clear after heal, sadly, only heat drain

[fair pike]

See I may be stupid, but I may also not be, I don't remember now xD

[thin lark]

It was working last version, and I'm 90% sure it works this version

been few days or so since I ran a combat in this in which I got exposed, but I think it works... yeah, because I fought the Shining Guard and their triple witches of heat-death-pain. I most certainly got exposed in that, and vented heat a lot, and I think it went away. It's not the default option if you're missing some HP though, maybe that's why?

[rain cipher]

Forgive the length, thinking out loud to show my working:
From a UX perspective, while they're easier to set up, the shared zones has the disadvantage of ambiguity - like I set a Centre zone and that's sometimes used as an objective and sometimes as an enemy spawn, but during which ones? When do they use that vs objectives A-D? There's no way to check without exiting out and trialing the map.
Then, do they work nicely together or are there unintended gameplay consequences? When I do figure out what does what, setting a zone to fulfil 2+ purposes feels like doing a puzzle where the solution is compromised on both ends, like a large enemy spawn means a large objective zone.
However it seems to work well enough on some maps so perhaps it's mostly the lack of clarity without memorising what does what. I can see that making all the zones sitrep-specific only would 5x both the work needed at that step and the number of sometimes-overlapping zones on the map at creation time, which could get confusing, so that's not a good solution.

If I'm imagining a solution, perhaps there'd be a dropdown menu in the map designer to filter zone visibility for specific sitreps, and having their purpose visible or explained somehow - like at least turning red when used as an enemy spawn in that objective. For zone use flexibility, the checkbox grid for objective behaviour (NPC try to occupy, strictly occupy etc) could be a useful pattern to reuse for a new menu showing what zone does what - e.g. Objective A has Escort initial spawn + Recon objective A checked. That would also surface explicitly what's being used as what in editor, and allow finer control if desired if you can assign those behaviours to new zones instead. Then with the filters map-view-side, if you want to go fully custom it won't turn into a mess of overlapping boxes.

[alpine sorrel]

I like this, thanks for your thoughts!

[rain cipher]

I'm glad! 😁

[thin lark]

If sitreps could be assigned more than one zone for their stuff that would also help immensely.

Hm.... maybe it really is just the Holdout that's the issue, really. It tends to want a small Center zone.

So maybe the "default" zones should be split into Holdout asking for a small Center, Extraction and Gauntlet asking for a wider.. uhh... Middle? area

[glad lotus]

Bug report: thermal charge dealt kinetic damage here. Maybe damage type is getting overridden by the other bonus damage sources?

Bug report: invades roll an attack vs allies, but should automatically "hit" and deal no heat. (I think this one has been reported before?)

[fair pike]

Small off topic tangent:
The map making tool is so freaking good. Sure it has a few downsides but I'm sure they'll be gone in no time.
It's all the tiny things, like being able to look at the entire map from different perspectives and not just top-down, being able to change the sun's position, the scripting, it's amazing!
And like the tiny things, like how the cargo containers change colours randomly every time so you can just like shake your mouse to reshuffle colours

It's giving me the same vibes I had as a very young map maker back when flash games were a thing

[glad lotus]

Bug Report: Toku's limit break is applying to tech attacks, should only apply to melee & ranged

[alpine sorrel]

Tech attacks? On my toku? More likely than you might think

[small panther]

It's like the hacker Nelson, you can't escape it (pun intended)

[small panther]

I distinctly remember bringing this one up yeah, so as a quick reference in case it got lost in the pipeline somewhere :
Invades on allies are not attacks, do not need to roll to hit, and do not apply the base 2 heat from invade (though invade options that apply heat themselves, like sear, do work)

Yeah it was there : #1079952007915376711 message

[alpine sorrel]

Here's my current list of me just not knowing how it works bugs

[burnt frigate]

Also keep in mind, the "allied auto-hit tech attack" thing is A). only for Invade specifically and B). does not apply to NPCs

it's a rule with several big particularities to it

[alpine sorrel]

the hate for witch allied pred logic tactics continues...

[burnt frigate]

There IS actually an NPC tech attack which works along these lines in the Rebake, it's the Scout's Rebound Scan

[stable smelt]

(rebake rebound scan is really good. core rebound scan might as well not exist.)

[hazy ferry]

What system does that?

[burnt frigate]

sorry, what do you mean?

[hazy ferry]

The allied auto invade hit

For players

[worn tiger]

The lancer system

[burnt frigate]

literally every system tagged with Invade

[worn tiger]

It's just how invades work

[hazy ferry]

Ohh

[burnt frigate]

This is how you can use, say, Puppet Systems on an ally to move them

[hazy ferry]

I misunderstood

[burnt frigate]

The point is, this doesn't apply to NPCs

their own tech attacks work on different rules

[hazy ferry]

I thought it was like, a system that gave allies a guaranteed invade on an enemy that you were talking about

[burnt frigate]

there's no NPC equivalent of "you can use tech attacks on your buddies without having to roll"

[old pivot]

My group have often wished there was something that let you auto-hit grapples on buddies

[orchid pendant]

Ally grapples make it pretty clear that the grapple rules were very much intended for hostile situations only. Because there's a lot of weirdness between how size is counted when there's only allies in the grapple, and how everyone can end up just pooling their movement to move the entire blob...

(Frankly, it would probably be healthier to just force Grapple to target a foe, instead of a character.)

[small panther]

Sorry to inform you, but improvised attack scaling is actually 3/4/6 for some strange reason.
Can't screenshot rn but it's page 281.

[rain cipher]

Oh I misread that too then 😬

[small panther]

Yeah it's weird

[fair pike]

I don't know if it's an actual rule in the book, but the way I've been running it is that player characters can always choose to willingly fail a save, like in other TTRPG systems.

Also, I realized literally just now, after playing LT for... some time... Where squad npc?

Also also!
Tiny bug report: Pressing Alt+Click to eyedrop doodads doesn't work, it selects correctly but then you can't place anything unless you re-select the item from the menu by normally clicking

[tepid temple]

The thing is that grapples aren't a save— which the players can willingly fail— they're a to-hit roll

Also squads are in the "someday future bin due to their higher than average mechanical and artistic difficulties"

[fair pike]

Cool thanks

[lethal leaf]

3 ×1/×1.5/×2.

[small panther]

Yeah but even then, 3x1.5 is 4.5, and by lancer standards that would've been 5 already

But I do think 3/4/6 is probably good. 5 at tier 2 would feel like a lot and 5 at tier 3 seems like so little

[alpine sorrel]

Good lord, I'm now getting bug reports about my list of bug reports

[small panther]

Better that than correcting the same problem twice I figured

[stiff spruce]

I wanted to draw my pilot in the style of Lancer Tactics pilot...

I may have fucked up the shading but I think it still looks good soooooooo

[tepid temple]

Dang, that's some nice dithering there

[stiff spruce]

Yeah i'm proud about it

Less about the body tho

[glad lotus]

The bnuuy badge is cute

[stiff spruce]

Its her signature, everything she works on or likes she speay paint it... just like a cat would make you gift...

Even so i assume her friends wouldnt enjoy to see a bunny head spray painted on their mechs xD

[small panther]

Apply bnuuy directly to forehead to identify frens

[worn tiger]

bnuuy sticker is effective IFF

[hidden jetty]

shouldn't have tried to take my house...

[alpine sorrel]

hell yeah get their asses

[hidden jetty]

it was a fun challenge and I really like that it isn't totally impossible if you're already familiar with lancer.

thank you for making this game I've been really enjoying it :D

[alpine sorrel]

we should add some dialogue to acknowledge it if you pull it off

[hidden jetty]

that would be awesome! Let Granny be the unstoppable badass she was always meant to be

[lilac anchor]

"Holy shit granny."
"They knew what they we're doin. lemme get my smokes."
"Fuck- yeah go off queen."

[toxic badge]

works for me, is there a specific situation where you can get it to not happen for you consistently?

[weak willow]

when the DOOM music kicks in

[lilac anchor]

what is the full enemy OPFOR on the tutorial?

[hidden jetty]

• Grunt Demolisher
• Ronin
• 2x Grunt Hornets
• Bombard
• Berserker
• Elite Assault
• Witch

[lilac anchor]

I see, probably a bit of a challange for a LL0 Everest

[hidden jetty]

idk when that hyperspec fuel injector kicks in you rapidly realise why the everest is the best mech in the game

with some luck and good positioning you can kill the demolisher, ronin, hornets and bombard before they have a chance to activate (or do anything but boost in the case of the hornets), which leaves a somewhat more reasonable 3v3 battle

[lethal leaf]

It doesn't use Rebake grunts?

[burnt frigate]

No, olive stated that those weren't going to be implemented

[lilac anchor]

I see, I see

[lilac anchor]

The everest is the gold standard for a reason

[thin lark]

It could probably use rebake grunts as an option later. They’re just a new unit type, really. I know there’s no plans for it but to make them optionally available later will be easy as soon as we can add any type of npcs

[mild jay]

Really depends most on how much existing functionality can just be reused for them, plus they’d still need to be tested, fixed, and have assets made

Off the top of my head I can’t recall how much precedent the crb or non-grunt rebake has for defender grunt’s sacrificial reaction

[thin lark]

saladin has a "no, it hits me instead" reaction I believe

[worn tiger]

Bastion's Fearless Defender optional

[smoky glacier]

Saladin has "rebound" type reactions- turning an attack against a new target
White Witch has the "force enemy to target me" effect

[thin lark]

Yeah I misremembered it. But it is still a switch target effect :)

And it's already been implemented, unlike white witch

[teal flame]

that or someone doing vanilla+ stuff if you don't

god the amber phantom is going to be a pain

[mild jay]

What would the funniest way to lose that bet be, I wonder?

[thin lark]

... sounds like a good first project either way ^_^ The grunts are much less content though. An actual achievable early goal... I suppose if you do the vanilla NPCs one at a time though. Won't be me, mind you - I like the rebake ones. I might add Legionnaire though...

Oooh, no, the Gilgamesh license!

It's full of fun things. And doesn't seem -too- complicated (famous last words, I know)

[stable smelt]

the spear charges have a fun... condition on their activation that might be a little tricky

[thin lark]

the loitering mode?

[young sorrel]

I might try to mod the Chomolungma into LT since that seems like it'd be pretty simple

And would provide some nice variety at ll0

[proud dirge]

lollllllll

[weak willow]

Caliban mod wen

[young sorrel]

Not sure if bug, but the delayed pinaka firewall seems almost unreasonably good at keeping enemies locked down

The entire opfor just didn't cross the ! zone aside from the cataphract, who also spent one of its two turns not crossing it

[teal flame]

huh that’s a spite?

okay, i guess that means first-party expansions aren’t entirely out of the question?

[young sorrel]

It's a Support

[gusty agate]

I know stuff like this can be difficult. In starcraft campaigns, the AI often breaks around Liberation Zones

[hazy ferry]

Perhaps make it so AI can cross if they can without getting hit?

[old pivot]

I noticed a lot of the AI shooting and then applying lock on

[small panther]

That's just accurate GM simulation

"oh I should've locked on first. Oh well. Turn over, you're up !"

[thin lark]

Although I am very guilty of doing that myself, both in LT and when I used to GM tabletop lancer... sometimes it's also the optimal approach. There's plenty of support class NPCs or quasi-supports where they have a gun, but it's not a great gun compared to an Assault or a Bombard, so fire + lock on is a very reasonable turn.

(The more I play Lancer Tactics, especially comparing the new NPCs to the limited set before... the more I realize that the Assault's heavy assault rifle really is just a -great- gun for dealing dependable, turn after turn damage pressure. Possibly the second best in role for that, in fact.)

Rebaked Operator Plasma Rifle is unarguably better... frame is a lot easier to take out, though.

I'm thankful we never had to face the corebook Operator at higher tiers in this. Their gun seems massively overtuned at any tier level :)

[hidden jetty]

is there a way to run map triggers on a normal mission or do they only work when you use 'use map settings'? I made functionality for switching between normal and 0g mode when you enter 'space', and I'd like to do things like set up teleports in doorways for switching between interior/exterior portions of a map

[thin lark]

So far, the triggers only work when you Use Map Settings.

If you feel up to the challenge, there's no reason you can't write your own sitrep and opposition selection menus using the dialog system though, so your map could ask "which sitrep do you want to run?" and provide a selection of opponents. It might even be able to pull from the skirmish selected reinforcement pool, I can't recall.

[hidden jetty]

one operator single handedly wiped out my whole opfor yesterday because for the life of me I could not hit it with any attack (just terrible dice luck, half I had accuracy on)

[thin lark]

Yeah I feel that. It's just how Lancer goes sometimes - if you can't roll anything over a 4 or 5 on the d20 it barely matters what other stuff you have.

(Except of course, if you have Reliable, or save-for-half effects, and so on. They're usually not -enough- on their own to swing it, but eh, they help.)

[hidden jetty]

oh is there a way I can let you choose where to drop in your own lancers in the starting zone on a custom map, like with the normal missions? It'd be great if I can set up reinforcement spawning from whatever pool you selected too but idk how to do either of those things using triggers yet

[thin lark]

The first one is pretty easy, yeah

give me a minute, I'll send you a screenshot

Obviously you can pick whichever zone you'd like, but that triggers the player deployment window where they get to pick where in that zone they deploy.

[hidden jetty]

oh there's a whole effect for it I'm just blind as it turns out

thank you

[thin lark]

This is the easiest reinforcement action, but it works only on specific, pre-selected reinforcement groups. I don't know offhand of a way to get the group selected in the skirmish window to be the one the map uses.

However, you absolutely CAN have several different groups, and then have a dialogue in the Use Map Settings asking "which of this big list do you want?" and then just have the triggers have a condition so that only the group selected by the dialog actually deploys.

Which isn't ideal but it's better than nothing. You can even skip that dialogue and have random opponents, if you want. Or for maximum chaos, random opponents every round ^_^

[hidden jetty]

a true randomisation option would be kinda cool ngl, since it means you can't prepare for the specific opfor you know you're going to be facing, instead you have to be ready for anything

[thin lark]

I also uploaded this so other people can see it. The map is nothing special but the triggers show a functional, tested base of (admittedly only two) random opponent packs which it picks from each round.

You can modify as needed, expand, etc.

[hidden jetty]

ooo awesome thank you :D

[thin lark]

(I'm not actually sure whether it needs separate combat start triggers and new round triggers... ah well. It's an example, it's not really meant to be polished ^_^)

[fair pike]

Oooh nice

I messed around with triggers and such previously, called it after successfully recreating a combat session I ran in an irl session, but couldn't figure out how to have the dialogue choice matter ie save the decision to any variable.

Also I wouldn't worry much about selected sitreps. When there are enough map makers (likely at Steam release), the 'use map default' option will always be used, I'm sure.

[young sorrel]

Bug(?) Report: If you bring a 2 stress NPC down to 0 stress they get the reactor meltdown effect instead of just exploding.

Is that something that was changed with the rebake?

[thin lark]

(Edit: Kai's Rebake does have a stress table that calls for NPCs to meltdown instead of explode, but according to Olive further down Lancer Tactics is not using it. Since it's not being used, I chose to remove it.)

[young sorrel]

Well in that case this is bugged, because NPCs do lose their weapon on a structure check half the time

[thin lark]

huh. Weird.... yeah, (in theory it) should use either one or the other of the tables, vanilla or rebake, but not both :)

That said maybe Lancer Tactics is doing something slightly different and is only using one? I'm certainly no authority on it, I just remembered that the Rebake had a different Structure and Overheating table for NPCs with more than one of each.

[weak willow]

Yeah an operator lost their rifle on one mission and I got to laugh at them while I took my time killing everything else

[young sorrel]

Two Gravity Gun bugs: First off the targeting still gives you a hit chance determined by enemy Evasion, second off if you have BTWIKE it doesn't roll average damage

[young sorrel]

When you want to expose the Berserker to turn off Stampede Defense but the game says

[young sorrel]

Take that! Triple Finish!

[lilac anchor]

wait this is super good??? Im keeping this for later use

[young sorrel]

Welp

[thin lark]

It's part of Kai's NPC Rebake, found here: https://kaitave.itch.io/lancer-npcs-rebaked

[lilac anchor]

oh that explains it

[thin lark]

(If I'm going to post snippets I figure it at least deserves a nicely linked shill!)

[lilac anchor]

never read that

[thin lark]

You should, it's really good!

It also has what I consider to be much nicer "generic" grunts (like a Striker Grunt, a Defender Grunt, or an Artillery Grunt, with a basic, low statline, predictable systems and such, and of course explodes on one hit like a grunt - but with less chance for the massive swinginess that is for example four corebook Operator grunts with Telefrag), which Lancer Tactics isn't using, and many many changes to make all of the corebook NPC classes smoother, nicer balanced (not less mean, but, less weirdly unpredictable about when they're mean!) and in my opinion generally just better thought out NPCs, presumably informed after a lot more actual play than the original vanilla set. Lancer Tactics is already using them as its NPCs, and... we don't know if it's using the damage tables partially, completely, or not at all, I suppose.

Generally, I would always recommend it to anyone interested in running Lancer. It reduces the scope for mistakes and enables a few smart plays, allowing for more fun and reducing the chances of someone shouting "Wait, they do WHAT?"

(Or at least, making it so if they shout that it's when they -should- have used a Scan action, and not them shouting that -after- a Scan action because it was easy to misinterpret a particular combination of effects)

[lilac anchor]

interesting

1. I aint got the $ for that rn
2. I like having 4 operator grunts with telefrag! Or scout grunts with orbital strikes its very funny

oh ym god i just checked everest

all the npc portraits are usable, thank you '

[hidden jetty]

anyone have any idea how I can end a status effect on a trigger? I'm having some trouble because I can't end it both on a move and on a turn, and I can't figure out how to remove a 'manual' effect

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: Omnigunning an exposed enemy does 1 damage in the map but 2 damage in the log

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah this sounds like a bug; we're sticking with the crb stress tables

[burnt frigate]

0 stress NPCs DO melt down, but not on a timer, it's at the end of its next turn

[thin lark]

Probably not even a bug... looking closer at the corebook table, there's no immediate explode option there either. Apologies, thought there was. Even totally running out of stress is still only meltdown at end of next turn.

[young sorrel]

That is what happened here, for the record, I brought it to 0 stress and it said it would suffer a reactor meltdown at end of next turn.

I didn't want to check if that was true or not so I killed it as quickly as I could

I was kind of hoping I'd get a better reward to burning through two stress bars than turning them into a giant bomb who'll run at me and explode

[burnt frigate]

Nope, that's 100% how it works out of the CRB

[young sorrel]

Huh, TIL

I suppose it's because I almost never play hackers but when playing LT I generally have one hacker in my squad of 4, so I personally interact with the overheating rules more often

...It could also be that the system remembers all the Nuc Cav 1 and Open Door triggers that players forget

[burnt frigate]

the good news is this works for PCs too

if a PC goes to 0 stress, they have one turn left to act

[young sorrel]

That's true, though hopefully not nearly as many PCs as NPCs go to 0 stress in a scene

[lilac anchor]

Its true! Although I don't know if as many PC's will try to suicide rush an enemy like NPCs will

[young sorrel]

Presumably you'll QA Skirmish and then QA Eject

[lilac anchor]

Yeah, ive found death through structure is far more common then stress in pretty much every scenario

unless there are 12 witches on the field or something

[young sorrel]

And I'm pretty sure that's intentional, honestly all I wanted to do was expose the Berserker to turn off Stampede Defense

[lilac anchor]

real, Berserkers are the biggest problem that a Melee enemy could be tbh

[weak willow]

Ironically I've had about equal structure and meltdown deaths, in LT

"Stress is a resource, right?" Venator said, as he overcharged and used Displacer for the 4th time that mission.

https://tenor.com/view/hellion-starcraft2-terran-portrait-gif-15223409

[lilac anchor]

o7 god bless the Director General

[young sorrel]

Is Voice of Authority not once per turn?

[burnt frigate]

1/round

[thin lark]

Maybe it’s applying to the whole action somehow?

[ashen kindle]

I'm jealous of Lancer tactics now... They remember that commanders have traits 😔

[thin lark]

The computer never forgets!

… It also sometimes waits in a corner or has someone move into water and stay there and do nothing, but it never forgets!

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: Mourning Cloak's Hunter bonus damage is wasted on a miss, when it's supposed to be on hit

Reposting this now that I know it's a bug: Bug Report, Voice of Authority has no limit on how often it can be used even though it's supposed to be 1/round

[hidden jetty]

Getting an NHP to pilot my RPVs :D

(the game doesn't technically let you do this but I can set is_nhp to true in the JSON and it seems to be working. They don't show up with the blue nhp shader during narration though, just the scanlines one)

[alpine sorrel]

Oh I might just not have support for speaking NHPs in the dialogue system yet. That's an oversight.

[hidden jetty]

it would be super fun to be able to have the nhps equipped on your lancer's mechs talk to them. I'd love support for nhp pilots too but I suspect that's not really intended behaviour

[small panther]

You can still have your 4 grunt operators with the rebake btw, LT isn't doing bespoke grunts.
But also even the Rebake itself is fully compatible with base lancer templates and NPCs if you want it to, it is explicitely cross-compatible.

It'll just be way more fair if you do.
Or not. Grunts with reliable and burn on crit is funny even without the telefrag.

[glad lotus]

Bug report: Osiris doesn't generate an NHP portrait?

[elfin meteor]

Or you have a player that's reckless with self-heat and overkill weapons.

[teal sundial]

shy

[weak willow]

note to map editors

Stairs cannot actually be walked on

[thin lark]

stairs made of blocks, or a stairs object?

Pretty sure wide enough block stairs work. 2 deep for 1 rise steps should work for most stuff, and even size 3 can usually stand on a 2 deep platform for a little while...

[alpine sorrel]

Oh lol did we mark them as invalid endpoints?

[weak willow]

There's a stairs object, near bridge objects in the tile selector

I used them in a map and mechs couldn't climb, walk, or jump to get past them. Didnt check if flying over worked.

[young sorrel]

When the Veteran Commander Breacher spawns in the center of the holdout zone

[young sorrel]

Not a bug report but a thing I'd like to see changed: If you get hit by a melee attack that would structure you while you have a blademaster die, it will ask "do you want to Brace to gain resistance" before it asks "do you want to use the blademaster die to gain resistance", presumably you'd always want to use parry first

[weak willow]

I believe, and maybe other map makers can weigh in, that this problem comes from Endzone and Center generally being painted on the same location due to how maps are designed, leading to Endzone becoming a Flank during Holdout

so enemies can indeed spawn on top of you

[thin lark]

Yeah, if any zones are overlapping it can cause problems, but especially Center, which is somewhat overloaded. Most of the sitreps we have now use it either as an objective zone, a player spawn zone, or a start of mission enemy spawn zone

So if anything overlaps Center problems can occur

[hidden jetty]

@weak willow I beat your new bossfight over my lunch break (it's awesome btw, beckoner really coming in clutch) and for some reason it still ends round 5 with a defeat, despite all the enemies being killed. I've attached the save if you want to look into it

I had some problems detecting when all the enemies were killed on my own map and after several attempts what eventually worked reliably for me was covering the whole map in one big zone and then checking if enemies in zone = 0 on a death

[teal sundial]

its a gauntlet, not a bossfight- the win condition is getting to the endzone within the round limit

[hidden jetty]

ah I'm just blind haha sorry for bothering you

[weak willow]

No worries man 🙂

[young sorrel]

Not a bug but some map weirdness, enemies can spawn up on this building in the map God Given and they aren't smart enough to come down and get you

[glad lotus]

That's high enough they'd take fall damage, I think? Maybe weighting fall damage too heavily vs "go do the mission"?

[glad lotus]

Small bug: opening the opfor editor and then closing it changes the label in the drop down to (I think) whichever one is first in the list. The displayed NPCs don't change, and the combat does launch with the correct NPCs.

[flint portal]

that def shouldn't happen

I don't know what's at fault there since their deployment is always supposed to be on the ground

[alpine sorrel]

Which sitrep were you playing when you saw this?

[young sorrel]

Gauntlet

[alpine sorrel]

I'm updating LT's Gauntlet to only use entry (player deploy), flanks (reinforcements) and center (objective zone); dropping endzone due to the conflicts mentioned above. Hopefully should also fix this ingress zone bug.

spent today working on a "create/edit generic sitrep" modal

[flint portal]

oh hell yeah

[teal flame]

oh i bet one of the things people will mod in is modded sitreps like expanded combat's

leviathan fights in LT would be amazing

[glad lotus]

Minor bug: Tempest drone name isn't localized in the log.

[glad lotus]

Bug: the ghast nexus drone being impaired shouldn't impede attacks with the weapon RAW, since it's still the controlling mech that's rolling the attack.

Hm, I think Tortuga is not getting its +1 Accuracy on vorpal gun shots. 🤔 I'll try to catch it properly.

[glad lotus]

Bug report: characters that get immobilized by perimeter command plate (attract) seem to never clear immobilized. Tried attaching an autosave but Discord is silently failing to post the message. 🤷‍♂️

I did keep a copy of the autosave file, so I can try posting it tomorrow.

[glad lotus]

OK, I didn't just screw this up! Perimeter Command Plate seems to be getting confused between attract & repulse. I used the Repulse option when deploying it (so I could help allies fly up a cliff), but once it actually got triggered it was using the Attract rules and immobilized them instead. "Mountain Hail" in the log is the allied tortuga.

[glad lotus]

This might not actually be a bug; I didn't look for the quick action option to repeat the save. I just assumed that leaving the plate should clear immobilized, but RAW that's not how it works.

[young sorrel]

I assume they thought that if you were immobilized, you couldn't exactly leave the plate to clear it

But forced movement exists 🤔

[proud dirge]

ya this happened to me too the other day

i pushed my vlad off it and they were still immobilized

[alpine sorrel]

Yum yum yum 🪲🪲🪲 ty

[small panther]

Should it matter this also happened to me during my last batch of bug reports I posted, on a previous version. If that can help, do tell me !

[alpine sorrel]

Thinking more about sitreps/maps/zones. I'm currently experimenting with having Gauntlet be center, but fixing the overlap-with-endzone problem where NPCs are spawning in on top of players in certain maps by having the sitrep trigger setup be smart enough to disable all potential NPC spawn zones that are close to a sitrep zone.

e.g. if you have a map with the center set up next to the endzone, it sees that the latter is too close to the former and doesn't spawn units there during holdout

but you can still use center for gauntlet and endzone for escort

[glad lotus]

Doesn't that cause a conflicting map design concern between gauntlet and holdout?

Forgive me if I'm not understanding the zones convention, I haven't played around with the map editor really.

[alpine sorrel]

It might, I have a hard time keeping in all in my head as well. But I think we can take the rule of thumb "put center in the most defensible area of the map". Players will start there for holdout, NPCs for gauntlet

[young sorrel]

Currently in Gauntlet I'm pretty sure NPCs start in the endzone, is that not intended?

[alpine sorrel]

they do currently; I'm switching it to center in the next update because it's felt awkward to have the endzone fill both an "escape off the edge of the map" zone and "this is a defensible area for gauntlet NPCs" zone, I think

[flint portal]

I don't know how doable it is but I do think that being able to place down different zones for each sitrep would help imo

rather than have them shared

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah? Could you say more about that? I don't want a situation where you have to hand-place each zone for each possible sitrep because it'd generate a lot of redundant data (flanks is likely to be the same for all sitreps that care) and having shared ones is more forward-compatible for people making their own sitreps.

what would be your ideal?

[flint portal]

It all depends on how the trigger system ends up looking, I still have a bit of trouble understanding the difference between some of them when making custom zones, but I think giving people sitreps that are like "default lancer book sitreps" as a set of zones independent to each sitrep would help people, maybe some way to cycle which are active on the map making tool, as in you click between some form of folder which tells you "this is active for this sitrep, this is not active for this one".

I think it would be fine, if they can be made invisible in the map maker, to have say a "control ingress", a "gauntlet ingress" and so on, rather than a generic flank zone which has to apply to all sitreps.

The other way I could see this being done is giving people a way of doing this, but then save a number of maps equal the sitreps added to that map? Which would help keep them different without having some issue with sharing data, because they'd technically be different maps, with diferent zone placements.

another possibility is to straight up tick some checkboxes for what crb sitreps you'd want for a map and it would add each required zone for it maybe?

[thin lark]

I still think that just splitting Center into a small defensible Center and a large “enemies spawn here at game start sometimes” zone (Traversal? Middle?) would resolve most of the sitrep issues we currently have. Especially if Gauntlet is having spawns moved to center rather than end zone

[glad lotus]

I have been ruminating a bit on how feasible it really is to have every sitrep on every map. Aside from designating zones, some maps just don't work well for a given sitrep.

[thin lark]

It would probably be better to tag maps as good/bad for sitreps than it would to have individual zones per sitrep per map

You could just note that Holdout is no good on map A, but good on map B, and they both work for Extraction, but map C which is thin and long not so much

[flint portal]

yeah, I def agree with this, I do think tho that as is sometimes you have a map that can work for two things but cannot (without tinkering with the zones using triggers) without making two different versions with just the zones being different

[teal sundial]

maybe it could just be added as an option to edit zones for sitreps individually?
like if you check the 'sitrep specific' checkbox it autogenerates seperate 'control center', 'gauntlet center' etc zones that could be moved to seperate places. itd be a bit of a mess visually but potentilaly a best of both worlds

[flint portal]

But for example the fact that flanks are shared for all sitreps does make it harder to make certain maps work even if they could

[glad lotus]

Mhm. I've had multiple experiences so far where I pick a map and sitrep for instant action, hit start, and immediately close out because the zones just don't work for that sitrep on that map. e.g. an ingress zone overlapping the central OZ for a holdout.

[flint portal]

I wonder how doable it is to have like, multiple "files" of a map that the individual map loads when you pick a sitrep

and then it just works from that map's configuration of zones

Like uh

hold on

[hidden jetty]

would it be possible for you to place your zones, then tag each zone as say "use as entry for sitrep gauntlet", or "use as centre for sitrep holdout"?

[glad lotus]

In any case, I would suggest separating "center", "endzone", and "ingress" ("flank"?) zones. IMO holdout's "center" and gauntlet's "endzone", while similar, are still quite different with regards to map design and expected play experience.

Escort and Extraction maybe could still use the same endzone as Gauntlet? (Do they currently?) Not quite sure.

[alpine sorrel]

here's a potential mockup

the idea would be to be able to add zone overrides on a per-sitrep basis

this could give better visibility to what sitreps use what zones & give a way to make specific fixes

[flint portal]

something like this which would be like, view from above that shows the zones and their location depending on the sitrep, altho you can probably do that with the UI that's already there

[flint portal]

I'd also suggest separating initial deployment and reinforcement zones yeah

[glad lotus]

Actually, if I could make a suggestion to help with this - could we see the sitrep's zones painted on the map preview in the instant action setup screen?

[alpine sorrel]

that's been a todo for me for a long time 😅

[flint portal]

yeah that's what I was mentioning just above lol

[glad lotus]

I guarantee the answer is either "oh yeah that's easy" or "oh no that's an absolute nightmare", lol

[alpine sorrel]

Including the zones in the snowglobe is easy; making scale-appropriate indicators for the instant action screen that both point and say the name on a spinning map will require some design work

sorry, "snowglobe" is what we're calling minimaps like this in the codebase

[flint portal]

a heads up "simplified" view or something could maybe help them be more readable?

like on the side

like primary color blocks or something

[alpine sorrel]

there's not a lot of available real estate on this screen left; here's the minimum resolution we're supporting, which is all the space available for steamdecks:

[flint portal]

ah gotcha

maybe on a hover on said zones on the snowglobe?

[hidden jetty]

could also have the map stop rotating on hover to aid this

[alpine sorrel]

Just got a UX consult from Carpenter; I think what I'm going to try is a sitrep-specific remapping of zone IDs. So you pick a sitrep from the dropdown, see all the zones it's going to try and use (e.g. Holdout has the player deployment/objective zone be center by default, and then can pick via another dropdown which of the map's zone you want it to actually use. So you could make an entirely new holdout-center zone and point it to that.

This gives the power of being able to set up the generic eight zones - or - completely ignore the defaults and make your own zones and setup each specific sitrep to use whatever ones you want.

Sitreps already stop you from playing on a map that doesn't have the zones they need, but we could also set up a blacklist where you can explicitly ban a sitrep from being played on a map even if the zones are there.

[thin lark]

That sounds good to me. Works with everything left default, can configure stuff, doesn’t require map duplication.

Hope it isn’t a huge pain to implement!

[teal sundial]

noticed a couple bugs just now but forgot to get the save

• Aegis keeps on plonking down and immobilising permenantly a few spaces from where they spawned with no allies or enemies nearby (this has happened a few times before)
• I think this is RAW but the engineer's drones aren't taking damage from Swarm Body or Hive Drone, on account of them never starting their turns
• I think Bonded 2 and 3 are triggering with all teammates. this might be because I didn't select a bondmate

[glad lotus]

For point 2, if it came up while I was GMing I'd have them take damage at the start of engi's turn.

[hidden jetty]

Drones not having a turn also means they don't take secondary burn damage or roll to clear burn

[glad lotus]

Hmm

By default, DRONES can’t take actions or move; if they do have actions or movement, they act on their user’s turn.

I guess that's the closest we get in RAW.

[hidden jetty]

quite proud of this explosion effect ngl

[cursive cave]

Good to know. Perhaps I rolled low? I will check

[cursive cave]

Yep, just rolled low

[minor void]

So. Someone mentioned lancer tactics to me in a different channel.

I'm super interested. How's the development of the game coming along. And can I buy it now?

[viscid harness]

I have pilots that won't delete - anyone got a fix or link?

redownload?

[alpine sorrel]

Whoa! rip to that payload lol

[alpine sorrel]

We're on schedule by the skin of our teeth -- you can get the early access builds at https://wick.itch.io/lancer-tactics

[alpine sorrel]

Pilot data is stored in a data folder outside of the game folder, so redownloading won't do it. You can find your data folder by going to Options -> Data and pressing the yellow button. Each pilot is stored as a json file there, and you can delete/edit them manually.

If you figure out what might be going on to get undeletable pilots, please lmk so we can fix

[minor void]

thank you; just bought it and im downloading it now

cant wait to try it out

[teal sundial]

how did you pull it off?

[viscid harness]

Thank you. BTW wonderful job. 2 of my pals who don't even know what Lancer was got the game 🙂

[thin lark]

Eventually I am going to recommend this to someone just because they want a good sci-fi portrait maker.

[mild jay]

It’s not a free picrew but it’s really good, and you get this cool game for free when you buy it

[hidden jetty]

three zones each with a random third of the target area, then I summon grenade fx and do 50ap to terrain at each. The explosions are delayed so you get two primary detonations (pirates aren't super professional with their detonators) and a secondary explosion of volatiles in the cargo.

The payload gets exiled (because its immune to damage) and its marker zone gets hidden and I play another explosion at that location.

The most cursed part is damaging entities in the zone - I have to have separate checks for each lancer and each enemy unit, then if they are inside the building (well, technically not outside since I already have that zone set up to prevent the bombards firing into the building), I do damage to them.

oh, and I got a payload onto a custom map in the first place by placing an ace and then manually editing its frame type in the map json to turn it into a payload

[thin lark]

Oh man you actually did the “check each entity and damage it if it’s in the area” brute force solution. I never thought anyone would put the effort in. How painful was it to set it all up?

(I’m just going to summon invisible manticores and make them explode if I need area damage I think)

[hidden jetty]

not that bad, since I just cloned the trigger, and there's only like 10 enemies total in the scene including reinforcements

summoning invisible manticores is kind of genius though I might do that instead

since the current method won't damage summons like drones

[thin lark]

You can also summon mines and explode those I believe, but then people can roll to resist, and the damage is very low.

good for off-map artillery sort of thing though, if you want the damage to be low and possibly halved

(Or just keep the mines. FASCAM sort of thing.)

[glad lotus]

Too bad scouts don't have orbital strike yet, that would be another option.

Or the Bombardment reserve, if/when we get those

[hidden jetty]

tbh I think the more elegant solution is to add a new trigger for "run trigger on this list of units". Lots of other scenarios this would be useful for

something like "trigger unit" which has contexts unit and string, then a new effect for "trigger units" taking a list of units and a string as its parameter

you might also want a "units" array variable like the "tiles" one for tiles

unrelated but does anyone know if its possibly to play an FXGroup which has different start and end locations, like the ones for firing weapons? I can play some of them but they always target the same direction. I'd love to be able to animate mechs shooting at each other

(on a related note I can command a rainmaker to use an action to fire its missiles at a target, and the attack and damage works fine but it doesn't play the fx for the missile salvo. Idk if this is true for other weapons)

[thin lark]

Yes, I'm also hoping for a "do X to Y units". There's already mutiple output selectors, such as tiles in zone or all units in zone, or some others, we just don't have any "do something to a unit" events that accept these multiple output selectors.

[hidden jetty]

so I made a mod.io account for mapmaking reasons and I discovered someone has been impersonating me on there since last month, which is deeply weird because I hadn't even heard of mod.io until today, and I didn't even have any games which support the platform when the account was created.

I don't believe there is any recourse for it so this is just a warning that this account is not mine and I am not responsible for it if it does anything.

Edit: turns out this account was generated by steam. It is mine and I am able to access it.

also, I'm not quite ready yet (I'm on map 3 of 5) but what would be the best way to release a series of maps meant to be played in order as a mission? Just upload them like normal with like a [1/5], [2/5] etc. in the title?

[stiff spruce]

You should report them asap

[hidden jetty]

ye I am currently going through that process

[thin lark]

weird. Sure it isn't yourself somehow?

[alpine sorrel]

That would be my guess -- I've accidentally made "accounts" on mod.io before; if you ever give them your email (even via an ingame form, e.g Lancer Tactics' request key thing) they automatically put you in their system.

[thin lark]

and then if you have a Gravatar it'll probably pull that from the email...

[hidden jetty]

hopefully that's it, because it'd be easier to have it deleted. Although the timing doesn't line up because I hadn't logged into itch for like a year before I bought this game at the end of November, a few weeks after it was suppsedly created. And I don't think I have any other games that use the platform

[thin lark]

I'm reasonably sure I had some game on steam create one for me once, but I cannot recall for sure. Maybe that was thunderstone or something, there's a few similar places now.

I'm pretty sure I have at least two as of this moment, because I had one before and I think Lancer Tactics made me a new one, but eh, shrug

[alpine sorrel]

👀 that's good to know, I would like LT to not do that

[alpine sorrel]

Numbering them in the title is probably the best way for now, until we get this module editor ready to be player-facing.

[hidden jetty]

ooo there's a module editor 👀

I saw there was an effect for saving persistent data between maps but I couldn't get it to do anything

that'll be super fun because I can have characters react to whether you won/lost/destroyed them in previous maps

[thin lark]

Even better, when we can have optional objectives that have effects later, like winning before turn 4 or preventing the artillery from being destroyed in mission 1 so we can use them for fire support in mission 3!

[hidden jetty]

update: the culprit was Totally Accurate Battle Simulator, which apparently generated one from my steam account

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: You can Overwatch with a weapon you've fired using Uncle-Class Comp/Con on the same turn

[hidden jetty]

some bugs with the map upload menu

• unicode characters for the arrows are missing (probably because of default fonts on my copy of linux - mint 21.3)
• as you can see. I am on page 4 of 3. I got here by clicking the arrow too quickly
• if you download both Arena (Small) and Arena (Big), only one will be saved because internally they are both called "combat_arena.json". The game still thinks you have both

[thin lark]

I've played that! I bet I have one from there also!

(Sorry, I forgot to turn off the ping for that reply and it absolutely did not need one. -_-)

[glad lotus]

Bug report: the Veteran's Shock Armor trait seems to apply to all weapon attacks. Here it's applying to a pistol, saw it apply to an HMG earlier.

[thin lark]

Seeing the log for that might be interesting

Who's firing the pistol? If it's the hydra, it might be the point defense field instead

Which would still be a bug, because it says it's shock armor

[stable smelt]

fun fact! the hydra doesn't have a flex or main/aux mount by default.

so it's probably not the hydra. probably.

[hazy ferry]

Aux mounts can be added

[glad lotus]

It's the black witch firing the pistol

[viscid harness]

@alpine sorrel I figured out the issue with unable to delete character. I had two version of the game on my computer. When access the older version of the game in my computer it tried to pull my newer characters. So basically user error.

[young sorrel]

Question for curiosity: Is there a way to see a list of all the loading screen text?

The Assault Hunker Down seems to last way longer than it should, it triggered for two attacks in the same turn here and i've also seen it trigger off-turn without any indication that the assault used hunker down

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: You can Vanguard 3 Overwatch while blinded

[young sorrel]

Size 2 melee enemies on castle crash are real, but they can't hurt you.

Size 2 melee enemies on castle crash:

[hidden jetty]

when you spawn reinforcements yourself with the event, is it possible to have them scale with lancer tier? No matter which flags I use they are always tier 1

[young sorrel]

Gravity Gun does some crazy stuff

Because of the "bounce back" that large characters do when you try to force them into a space they can't fit into, you can deal fall damage to them multiple times with one Gravity Gun shot

[hidden jetty]

following up on this, turns out I can get them to show up as blue in the conversation boxes if they are piloting a unit which is actually on the battlefield

which is why Hailfire would sometimes show up as blue and sometimes not (if you killed her RPV)

I think I'm going to exile some dummy units

[lilac anchor]

Hey, i forget who but to whoever mentioned that the docks map had an issue with being unable to get out of the water, just updated it with a new size 2 ramp! Hope it helps!

[alpine sorrel]

They're not the final ones but here's the original submission form: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iBTZ6gJUe-sKbJ6pBP7cVypwY85JIWz4j-MtEg357xY/edit?gid=0#gid=0

[thin lark]

They should scale automatically unless you tell them not to.

That is - you can’t specify what tier an NPC is in the mission editor directly

It’s just an npc, and then when the mission is being run it gets assigned a tier. If it’s always tier 1 that’s a bug.

(I think you can maybe suggest an NPC be a higher or lower tier than the default but you can’t ask for it to be specifically tier 2 unless something has changed since I last checked)

[hidden jetty]

I have tested running the map with an ll6 and ll12 team - my asassin has 15hp and does 4 damage each time. This occurs whether I deploy the unit with the 'deploy unit' event or the 'deploy reinforcements' event (I tried all the flags and no dice)

hang on let me set up a minimal test map

[thin lark]

I believe you, I’m just telling you how it ought to work. Possibly how it used to work, though I haven’t tested it to confirm

[hidden jetty]

too late I already made the map lol. One pre-placed unit, one spawned with deploy and one spawned with reinforcements. All seem to suffer from this bug

[alpine sorrel]

Polling the room:
I have the player phase in pieces right now from the click-around-to-inspect change and am thinking about input flow. The current system is:

• click action button, then click target to confirm // right click to cancel.
  I'm considering the model:
• click action button, then right click target to confirm. Left clicking opens up an inspect window (matching what happens when you left click before picking an action). To cancel, you'll have to hit escape or click the cancel button.

Are people using the right click to cancel frequently?

Would replacing that with hitting Esc be worth easier inspection?

[tepid temple]

Personally, right click to cancel a left click isn't intuitive to me

But at the same time, esc is reserved in my mind for escaping "bigger" menus

[hidden jetty]

personally I like the left click action and then left click target, and think if you need an inspect menu that could instead be bound to right click. For cancelling, you'd still have esc etc. or the actual cancel button.

it would match with your desktop ui where left click runs a program and right click opens a menu

[thin lark]

I think I’d also prefer left click to do, right click to inspect or cancel

[fickle pecan]

Agreed

[alpine sorrel]

So if you're picking a target and right click, if it's on a guy you inspect and if it's on an empty tile you cancel?

I'm skeptical we should overload it like that

[alpine sorrel]

Eg if we're clicking around before an action, we have to right click to inspect as well? Left click doesn't do anything at that point?

[hidden jetty]

I like that actually. You're left clicking the tiles around you to move so it feels kinda weird if that button is also bound to inspect. That's just me though

[alpine sorrel]

Oh sorry we're dropping that implicit move I think, should have been more clear. From the playtests I've seen, people feel trapped by it always being in move mode.

Going to have it be an action on the action bar or via some sort of context menu confirm

[hidden jetty]

Is move going to be an action that you can click?

nvm already answered

[alpine sorrel]

Though I guess left click could be that context menu!

So you left click and only then it shows you the potential path there. If you want a total view of movable spaces you press the move button

I like that enough to draft it

[hidden jetty]

could have it so left clicking on empty space opens the move display and clicking (idk which key but left or right would work) on empty space gets rid of the move display?

[rain cipher]

Oh for me right click cancel was great, perhaps I’d played something else with that paradigm before. I prefer interacting with the mouse over keys, but I suppose I can click the cancel button instead of right click if that’s needed for something else, though it would be clunkier. I share mlister’s thoughts that esc feels more like a menu button but I suppose it’s not that big a deal to have to hit it twice if you’re mid-command.

[glad lotus]

IIRC in XCOM it's movement mode by default, but you have to click once to select a destination then click again to confirm the move. I found that really good, since mis-clicking a move could have very bad consequences.

[glad lotus]

I'll play Devil's advocate, I like the right click to cancel. A few other games I play use right click as a "back" button that cancels or closes or moves to the previous step of a workflow. Once you're used to it that's very smooth and makes navigating menus quick, I use it extensively in those games.

[rain cipher]

Was considering what I’d do if given the same situation and man input mapping and flow is a tricky puzzle! Hope you arrive at a good middle ground of speed and flexibility

[weak willow]

I use it a lot actually, as much as I use escape, to cancel actions or back out of a choice

But it's not the end of the world if Cancel button and Escape are the two ways to do it

[lilac anchor]

i use right click

but i also use escape

[proud dirge]

ya i use the right click to cancel quite a bit

but ya i could adapt

[thin lark]

If right click stops being cancel I will be mildly sad, but I'm sure I'll survive. I use it a fair bit.

[magic python]

this is confusing. I'm using a smart weapon, and it looks like it's using the tech attack for attack. I don't think that's right, it should be using grit?

Also when I am using Invigorate, I can't figure out how to select more than one target. The blue range aura comes out of the first target like it's supposed to, but then clicking on anything else doesn't work

[alpine sorrel]

I think the latter is a bug we have logged. The former yeah also sounds like it could be getting confused about which attribute to use. Thanks for the reports!

[hazy ferry]

Makes sense for it to potentially be confused since smart weapons make attacks against edef

[young sorrel]

Uhh... thanks I guess?

[proud dirge]

omg thats nice of him

[young sorrel]

It seems like it does actually target itself, but it gives you a happy wave with its laser pointer

[young sorrel]

No it's not

[hidden jetty]

dw its just being really sneaky

[alpine sorrel]

hahaha

that's so diagetic

[young sorrel]

May I request that the custom names for elite NPCs not be the names of other NPC classes?

[teal sundial]

got hit with the old Arceus-Steel trick

[young sorrel]

Exactly

[lilac anchor]

The Mirage:

[alpine sorrel]

oh, was that it? it was callsign "Mirage"?

[young sorrel]

Yes

It was a commander ace named Mirage

[alpine sorrel]

there are 584 elite striker callsigns... congrats on rolling that 1/584 chance

I'll send that backer a note to see if they have another thing they'd like to change it to lol

[young sorrel]

This must be my lucky day xD

[lilac anchor]

thats really funny, imagine seeing a Mirage named Ace now

[thin lark]

I may have seen an Assault named Bastion or something once, but I can’t remember. Maybe it was also Mirage…

[young sorrel]

I'm going to make a Gorgon named Saladin and when enemies try to bring down big sal they get surprised by Metastatic Paralysis

[thin lark]

Ahh, three months ago, I met an Assault called Monarch :)

[lilac anchor]

Thats horrifying and I surpport it

Give it the same color scheme too, it's trying its bets

[alpine sorrel]

It's been on the back of my mind forever that horus mechs shouldn't be bound to their single book representation re: they're pattern groups, not canonical forms. The easiest thing to do would be to pull and everest and let them pick any mech token they share a size with, but I worry about the confusion there.

plus there should be signs e.g. manticore spikes sticking out of the "saladin"

or a balor nanocloud around that "lancaster"

maybe that'll just have to be relegated to a far-off inifinite-art-budget dream

[young sorrel]

In my eyes that sounds like... yeah, a "think to do when you have money"

[hearty helm]

Does LT currently have a way to view the turn order?

[teal sundial]

maybe have the horus picrew addons only be vfx like arcs of lightning or swarms, so that they're compatible with any mech the same size?

[teal sundial]

swarm for balor, drones for hydra, lightning for manticore, omnigun for pegasus (not sure goblin, gorgon, minotaur)

[tepid temple]

I'm of the mind that no mech should be privileged with more customization options beyond the mech which was carved out as such (and its siblings)

Just doesn't feel fair that one manufacturer gets that but not the others, diegetic or not

[teal sundial]

ye and most SSC mechs are also custom-made so i think there is an unavoidable degree to which some canonical customisation won't be present

[proud dirge]

there isnt really a set turn order in LT, its just popcorn activation between players/npcs

[alpine sorrel]

as it is with the base game

[hearty helm]

Nodding

[alpine sorrel]

Re: new input flow: after playing around with it, my favorite schema that I've landed on is keeping things as-is with right click to cancel, BUT there's an "inspector" mode that lets you click on units to open their tooltips // preview their action bars (and in the future, click terrain to see its properties). So the flows are:

Player's turn start: click units to inspect them & preview their action bars, then press a new "start turn" button to actually start their turn

Player's turn, action/movement: a standard movement range pops up by default as before, but now you can cancel out of it (w/ right click) to hide movement and enter inspector mode. Clicking the active unit again will re-open the standard movement range.

It's kind of hard to picture, but now the most "basal" mode you can be in on your turn is inspector mode instead of picking movement.

This is nice because it's very close to what we had before so I don't have to do as large an overhaul as I was expecting. Right now on my plate there's a big bug backlog, and then the mountain of NPC optionals.

[hidden jetty]

would it be better to have the action/movement mode be the default and then you can open inspector mode if you need to? Since you're always going to be doing move/action but you don't always need to look around the map, there'd be less clicking involved

[alpine sorrel]

that's where you land at turn start

so I think for the golden path if you know what you're doing, there's only one extra click (confirming that you want to start a turn with a unit)

[hidden jetty]

ah I misunderstood, this is before you click on a unit to select that one to start its turn?

[proud dirge]

awesome

[alpine sorrel]

both

but for action/movement, it defaults to having the movement range be open

the only difference there is that you can then cancel out of that movement range to inspect stuff

[hidden jetty]

that sounds awesome, sorry for being a nuisance

[alpine sorrel]

it's hard to turn this sort of design work into words

[hearty helm]

Any plans for controller support?

[young sorrel]

Yeah, there's Black Witch and Goblin

[thin lark]

Cancelling out of doing anything non reversible so the most basic outside interaction is inspect sounds really good. If nothing else you can always just spam cancel until you get to a state where you can’t commit anything else, look around, decide, and then go back in to meddle with things

[teal sundial]

LL4 challenge- survive to round 10

[young sorrel]

Ronin Cataphract Berserker Breacher? Seems like its time for the all ATMS squad

[teal sundial]

I swear if you manage to beat this with some loony toons bullshit like 4 duskwings I'm gonna sob

[young sorrel]

Can you export the opfor?

And I'll see what horrendous nonsense i can cook up

[hazy ferry]

I bet that was the whole idea tbh

[viscid harness]

Started turn after Bracing. Valiant Aid cleared and then am not able to take any actions

[magic python]

I killed a Berserker with an attack, and the Berserker still got to do its Aggression reaction. I don't think this is right because the original attack should happen before the reaction, so if the Berserker is killed it shouldn't be able to retaliate.

[worn tiger]

LT uses Kai's rebaked NPCs, and the rebake berserker's Aggression has a specific clause allowing it to still trigger on a killing blow

[burnt frigate]

Correct

Per the CRB, Aggression doesn't go off in the event of death. In the rebake it does, because it's funnier that way

Also strictly speaking, Aggression isn't a capital-R Reaction

It doesn't follow Reaction rules, can't be shut off by grappling or being Jammed etc

[worn tiger]

Yeah Aggression is a Just Happens, it's not any kind of action

[burnt frigate]

What prevents it from working (in the CRB) is that going down to 0 HP means that you are destroyed, and destroyed mechs don't really get to do anything on account of being destroyed

the timing there is a case of "when two things happen at once, hostile effects resolve first, then your own stuff"

[worn tiger]

a destroyed berserker has no aggression trait to trigger, nor chain axe to swing with

[burnt frigate]

yeah

anyway this is a specific change in the rebake version of the Berserker, which adds a specific exception clause that allows the Aggression attack to happen even if it's destroyed, rebake Berserkers get to go down swinging

[alpine sorrel]

I am in 100% agreement here and was going to ignore the CRB and have them get their final hit in even pre-rebake

Prebake

I think somebody submitted it as a bug forever ago and I summerily iceboxed the ticket

[alpine sorrel]

Do you happen to have a save file that you could share from this turn?

[teal sundial]

i dont think you can export opfors but its just a veteran elite Ronin, Cataphract, Beserker and Breacher

tier +1, x2 reserves

[thin lark]

You don’t need to export them as such - if they’re saved, they’re saved as a JSON file in the game’s directory that can be copied and shared and others can drop them into the same place to load them

[lilac anchor]

hmmmm, I should try making a campaign in lancer tactics...

:insert gif of Jetstream Sam stroking his chin:

[young sorrel]

Have fun ❤️

[lilac anchor]

I shall, just gotta finish revising an essay, and put some more work into a video script, and i shall begin!

[young sorrel]

Bug(?) Report: Breach Ram Deals 30 AP to turret drones

[lilac anchor]

it does that to terrin and obsticles right?

Probs just sees the turret as terrain or obsticle?

[young sorrel]

Probably, but drones count as characters

[lilac anchor]

this is true...

god ive had that discussion of if drones are characters so many times lol, its ingrained i my mind

[viscid harness]

I did. I'll share here shortly

[young sorrel]

@teal sundial Let the cheese begin

[young sorrel]

Easy Peasy

None of them can reach you when you're on top of this building

2 ATMS Pinaka Monarchs and 2 Caltrop Launcher Gunslinger Dusk Wings got to round 10 and killed the initial wave taking no structure damage

[teal sundial]

I'd kinda disregarded the possibility of using the size 3 cover bc when I used the size 2 the breacher used breach ram to make stairs

[young sorrel]

Light Nexus Auxspam was my way around Ronin rebound, they always use it the first time they're hit by a ranged attack so you can waste it on 1d3 versus a dusk wing with invisibility from Harlequin cloak, and turret attacks don't count either

...uh oh

[lilac anchor]

hmmmm, time to try making a campaign. i got a cookie wish me luck

[teal sundial]

uh oh

[young sorrel]

Managed to get to turn 20 still taking no structure and killed quite a few of them, so ended the run there. Definitely possible

I could have killed them all if I had 10 hours I didn't know what to do with

[lilac anchor]

well I made two maps, now i gotta figure out how to make em connected with stuff like convos

[thin lark]

I don’t think you can use the module editor in this version to actually link them, but you can presumably make conversations that assumes you won the first map, and so on

[teal sundial]

ok well without cheating using size 3 buildings i managed to get to round 15 before getting heroically ganked using my painstakingly trial and errored team

[young sorrel]

What mechs did you use?

Curious Barrel noises

[lilac anchor]

i will try

[teal sundial]

the strat was

• Iskander Tesseract to cut off the side eith more enemies, also 2 tempest drones from Hydra +snare drone +Tortuga eith a Perimeter command plate to keep people as slow as possible
• maximise target saturation with Hydra Orochi, Turret drones, Tempest drones, and the PCM
• Tortuga and Iskander on vanguard 3 duties to hit (and immobilise) anyone who comes close
• Stasis generator and Eject Power Cores on Hydra to remove from play anyone who becomes an issue
• Puppet systems on Hydra and Ferrous Lash on tortuga to move people into the no-moving zones
• displacer+cyclone pulse rifle everest to draw fire and die immediately (calculated strategy)

[lilac anchor]

made the maps, gonna publish em once i figure out conversations

[young sorrel]

Looking cool so far

[rain cipher]

Incredible nitpick but generally you wouldn't build your house on a flat plain by a river, for flooding reasons. Unless it's supposed to represent a little boathouse or dock. Looking pretty slick though! I like the station a lot

[lilac anchor]

Imploding you with my brain for this minor nitpick

yeah its supposed to be a little boat house

[old pivot]

The little galvanized iron roof house with the old wind powered pump next to it is like the most rural-australia looking thing I've ever seen in a video game

[lilac anchor]

damn did I just recreate Australia?

perfect new campasign idea here

[old pivot]

Looking closer, the LT home asset appears to have an upstairs loft though. Which is pretty rare here in Oz

[lilac anchor]

hmmmm, we need more australia accurate tiles clearly

I will work to make more australian maps form now on

[old pivot]

Joking aside, I wouldn't recommend Australia as a campaign inspiration - it's tactically boring due to being Mostly Flat and historically the only wars here have been colonists doing awful things to the first peoples

[lilac anchor]

Idk much about Australia tbh

The most I’ve really seen about it was the movie Walkabout and that’s it

[thin lark]

That’s why it’s ideal for mad max flavoured carpocalypses where everyone drives wheeled vehicles

Lots of desert too, for dramatic and sandy character establishing shots.

It already has all sorts of interesting wildlife as well!

[lilac anchor]

One place I think might make a neat setting for a campaign, is the southwest USA, places like Zion national park, the Mojave Desert, the grand canyon, etc i think could be neat

idk i like sand

[small panther]

I think I know a supplement that tried to do that, but idk if it's still alive

[lilac anchor]

Huh, id have to look for it then

I love a lot of different biomes and getting to fight mechs in places I like is always gonna be hype

Like, getting darker grass and snow would be peak, but i can survive without it

[thin lark]

You can imply snow with the right slope usage of white concrete, but it doesn’t melt under the slightest hint of a battle laser like real snow should

(Ideally forming a smoke cloud)

[elfin peak]

Highlands campaign, very open but with lots of changes in elevation and damn near 50% of the terrain is difficult terrain.

(Including right at the tops of the hill where you would assume its dry)

[small panther]

Environnemental effect that is perma soft cover to everyone, but not because of particulate storm; instead, because snow is just That Fucking Bright Actually

[gilded kindle]

which material do yall think would be best for getting across a blasted out crater kinda look?

trying my hand at making a custom map

i guess stone would probably work best?

[smoky glacier]

bug report:
Wizard deployed her third and final Turret Drone, and on her next turn the Turret Drone system had 3/3 charges again

This was on her second consecutive combat; she deployed 2 in the first fight and 1 in the second

[lilac anchor]

The slagland/wasteland tile?

[gilded kindle]

that would probably work pretty well too, this is what i managed to whip up

trying to make a map that looks like an orchard/farm that was bombed out

[lilac anchor]

oo, looks good!

maybe if there was something nthere add some metal rubble?

[thin lark]

Some more rocks or those medium sized chunks of stuff would also be good.

But not right in the middle, which should be mostly clear I suppose, if it was blasted

[gilded kindle]

i did a lot more work on it, gimme a minute to pull it up on my computer

does the export as png thing in the combat editor not work?

it definitely still needs some more stuff, too many wide open spaces. but i think its starting to look good

[viscid harness]

patiently waiting for the probably terrible to code skirmisher2 to crack these extractions wide open!

[glad lotus]

I do dearly miss my skirmisher 2

[minor void]

The limited mech/ talents are a bit difficult to work around; especially since I'm used to all the updated content. 😀

What cool builds have people made within this game system's available options?

[hidden jetty]

I also put skirmisher 2 on everything

trying to think how you'd even implement it when there's no skirmish/barrage distinction.
I'd probably have a counter for skirmisher, which is 1 at the start of your turn. Overcharge gives +1 to the counter, as does initiative and asura.
Then when you make a quick action weapon attack, you can choose to use skirmisher if the counter is > 0, and the counter is decreased by 1. If it hits 0, you are not allowed to make any more quick action weapon attacks.
For reactions, you'd need some kind of 'can use skirmisher' flag, which is true on overwatch, scylla, monitor module, flank, etc. and false on everything else

edit: this is actually a very thorny problem I'll get back to you once I figure it out

[minor void]

Ive got 0 coding experience.... so let me know if I'm wrong.
Could you set up a skirmisher option button. If it is active, then you can only make 1 attack action unless you overcharge. Before or after each attack, then you can use the extra movement.

If it's inactive, then proceed as normal

[hidden jetty]

I mean the silliest build I have abuses the fact that there is no prepare action to just never be a valid target. Genghis II, Mourning Cloak III, with FADE Cloak and Auto-cooler.
You overcharge loop to always have 3 quick actions. If the cloak drops, you get two actions to attack with, if not then you cancel it with one and use the other to attack. Then you use your final action to put the cloak back up.
You don't move, which procs auto-cooler and because you are not a valid target nothing is ever going to give you forced movement, meaning you can overcharge loop 100% safely.

of course, it's kinda useless in objective sitreps but it is incredibly funny to see the whole enemy opfor go through their turns in like 2 seconds taking no actions

[hidden jetty]

I was imagining that when you make a weapon attack, you get one of those popups like you get with acrobatics or the singularity motivator, with like "use skirmisher: before/after/cancel"

[teal flame]

we’re only “limited” to core book mechs?

[minor void]

Yeah. I'm just used to having all the other alt frame mechs available from compcon . Sometimes I want to build a certain mech, but then I realize it's not implemented here. That's all 😀

[old pivot]

hey, have we already had a report/discussion about how Asura doesn't work for some of the things you'd normally use it for? (i.e. Skirmish then Barrage)?

Also, Ace doesn't seem to work with flying via boost?

[teal flame]

that one's because there is no barrage here

[old pivot]

yes, i understand that that's how the change in rules works, but it does kind of invalidate some builds

or, at least weaken

[stable smelt]

I believe the official statement is along the lines of 'that's deliberate find something else to do with asura besides shoot your gun an extra time'

[old pivot]

fair enough then

[stable smelt]

I recommend grenades.

which are like a gun, but not a skirmish!

[thin lark]

Problem is you attack quite a lot on most turns, so you’re probably getting that popup every turn, and it will get tiring, and so your brain will start automating it and eventually you’ll press the wrong option by habit

[young sorrel]

Currently Ace 2 requires you to have type-1 or ATMS and be flying for it to trigger, you can't use RBJJ. That I believe is getting changed at some point though

[hidden jetty]

you're right, a better spot is probably under the attack options like lunge

[viscid harness]

Manticore+Black Witch
Tokugawa anything that loops
Saladin with Agility and reinforced frame +hyperdense armor
Any puppetwatch
Vlad with gandivas and hg3

[lilac anchor]

Maybe treat it as a separate ability you can activate, like press a button to activate skirmisher 2, then use the attack, and the game won’t let you attack again on your turn?

[lilac anchor]

Nelson-Mourning Cloak, the fold knives are fun

[young sorrel]

My favorite build which is the OC Looping Roland AMR Death’s Head, works perfectly fine on LT

Uncle Autostab AMR at neutral, Neurolink rerolling a miss, Overcharge, shoot Main/Aux with nuc cav, then Stabilize to clear heat and reload

[lethal leaf]

I don't have LT, but this is my favorite build, and it's core only.

-- SSC Mourning Cloak @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Tortuga 1, SSC Mourning Cloak 2, HORUS Goblin 1, SSC Dusk Wing 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Integrated Weapon, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Combined Arms 3, Vanguard 3, Skirmisher 2, Hunter 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:2 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:6 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+2 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:12 EDEF:8 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Fold Knife
  FLEX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun / Fold Knife // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Hunter Logic Suite, Singularity Motivator, H0R_OS System Upgrade I, Flicker Field Projector, Personalizations, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System

It's a Striker/Controller that deals a whole lot of damage with DSAS, and bonus damage with its integrated fold knife. Puppet Systems is for getting people away from their allies and into Vanguard Overwatch range.

[torpid orbit]

sadly i cant make my favorite cause viceroy isnt in LT

but I do have this

-- SSC Metalmark @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
SSC Metalmark 3, SSC Dusk Wing 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
All-Theater Movement Suite, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
Combined Arms 3, Nuclear Cavalier 3, Hunter 3
[ STATS ]
HULL:2 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:4
STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:1
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:5
TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:6 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
Integrated: Fuel Rod Gun
AUX/AUX MOUNT: Shock Knife (Shock Wreath) / Shock Knife
MAIN MOUNT: Rail Rifle
HEAVY MOUNT: Heavy Charged Blade // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
StunCrown x4, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, Reactive Weave, Flicker Field Projector

woe, Methanol Flashbang be upon the

[alpine sorrel]

Just added a way to trigger an effect on each of a list of units. It's a little roundabout, but:

You can now pass in an array of units to the Emit trigger signal effect, and then it will in turn emit that signal for each unit you had in that array

[hidden jetty]

ooo this works on all arrays this is amazing :D

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: If you trigger a Turret Drone attack while you're affected by a Priest's Abjure, you take additional heat from abjure from the turrret drone

[thin lark]

I'm 95% sure that's a bug with even hypothetical vanilla NPCs, but it's extra certainly a bug with Rebake ones, where the Priest's rebake specifies "the target takes 2/3/4 heat each time they make any attack roll until the end of their next turn."

[lethal leaf]

So does that mean that Autopod and Gravity Gun don't trigger Abjure in the Rebake?

[thin lark]

They’re not supposed to according to the wording. I assume that’s intentional, but I don’t know for sure.

[lilac anchor]

why is it yellow this has the Breaking Bad mexico filter

[lethal leaf]

It's the AI piss filter oh God oh Fuck /j

Seriously, old computer screens used to be monochrome, either amber or green because those are the colors that stimulate the eye best.

[thin lark]

I was assuming it was red shifted to reduce eye strain myself, at the software level so it came through on screenshots. Or its a UI theme? Wasn’t aware we could set those in lancer tactics though

[teal sundial]

it's the filter you unlock after a displacer rifle sends you to Brazil

[lilac anchor]

this could be true

[lilac anchor]

but I like this option more

[small panther]

Autopod is still an attack, so it triggers abjure. Gravity gun doesn't make attacks though so yeah it shouldn't trigger abjure.

[thin lark]

But autopod does not make an attack roll. It is an attack which hits, but it is not a roll.

[alpine sorrel]

Oh lol I didn't realize my PC included its f.lux adjustment in screenshots

Yeah it's a nighttime screen color shift thing

[lilac anchor]

I see, I see

[stable smelt]

well, no - autopod still has to roll to see if it crits, it just hits automatically.

reverse gorgon principle.
(if you shoot an invisible gorgon you still roll even if you fail the 50/50, to see if you're stunned.)

[teal sundial]

I think on the autopod case that's debatable? it's a weird situation

[sand goblet]

Autopod doesn't work like that. The only way an autopod can crit is if it's made to by some other effect like a Markerlight

[stable smelt]

it's somewhat debatable - I bring up the gorgon ruling because it's sort of the same question in reverse - if you miss/hit automatically, do you still roll?
(which leads into a completely useless but funny question - if you attack a gorgon with an autopod, do you roll?)

[alpine sorrel]

I'm of the mind that you can't crit with autopod because you don't actually roll, but it should still count as going through the attack roll process because otherwise Fusion Hemorrhage wouldn't apply to it ("the first ranged or melee attack roll you make...")

the turret drone shouldn't trigger abjure though, that's a bug

[sand goblet]

this is unfortunately one of those places where the looseness of the language involved makes it very difficult to understand what's going on

much less what's intended, which is another layer behind that

[burnt frigate]

My impression is the autopod A). never rolls and B). never crits

[stable smelt]

yeahhhh. lancer looks like a it's a really hard and solid rules system, but it, uh. isn't

[burnt frigate]

outside of something that forces it

lancer is also significantly more solid of a rules system than a lot of other similarly lengthy games tbh

please play shadowrun sometime

[stable smelt]

god. true tbh.

[tepid temple]

Like it or not Lancer is well above the curve

[burnt frigate]

people collect 10-15 weird edge cases in lancer like sweeping crumbs from the corner and go "man this system is really squishy" meanwhile clearly stated things like "prone applies accuracy to all attacks" still has people going "does this mean tech attacks? and ranged attacks?"

Olive's ruling that the Autopod counts as a "phantom roll" for the purpose of Abjure seems fine to me given the consistency with Nuclear Cavalier

that is, it's consistent within that framework

the gorgon invisibility thing is a broad case thing (yeah you check attack rolls for the purpose of X) but the autopod itself is a more specific case (doesn't roll) so I tend to break it down in terms of lancer's "specifics trump generalities" framework

[alpine sorrel]

For LT's purposes, anything that goes through this process is going to be an attack roll:

Plus odd special cases like stasis bolt

[weak willow]

sorry for late response but there's a few maps in the community tab, I think most notably the demon artillery boss fight has good "crater" pieces

[thin lark]

I made a crater map once. Not sure if it’s on the community map set, but it’s in the thread somewhere, you’re welcome to look at it and see if you want to copy bits

#1079952007915376711 message

[hidden jetty]

The story mission I have been working on, Scavenger's Ring, is now live!

Ready your mechs! Equip your flight systems! It's time to show the pirates of this asteroid belt that, for the Albatross, no call for help is too distant.

Featuring:

• 5 maps, each with their own sitreps
• Recurring characters with their own dialogue
• Custom space mechanics
• 2 custom bossfights
• Evil twins

Go play it before all the unintended features I used get patched!

[proud dirge]

woawwwww

[weak willow]

Yoooooo

[teal sundial]

@hidden jetty mission 3 crashes for me when the barricade uses Mobile Printet

[hidden jetty]

the heck? I didn't even do anything with the printer

I've fired up the map and it runs fine for me with no crash - barricade places its block just fine

do you have a save file I can look at?

[teal sundial]

yea gimme a bit

[fair pike]

#justGoblinThings

Found a bug where the printed cube can be walked into and I doubt it gives cover. Most likely because it was placed on a bridge tile or something..?

[alpine sorrel]

Ya I bet you're right

"into the grey cube with ye"

[young sorrel]

"Into the Box with ye"

[weak willow]

i get the same issue as inconveniencestore, crashed immediately once the barricade prints

[gilded kindle]

I'm not at my pc right now to upload a save but yeah, same thing for me too

[alpine sorrel]

Concerning concerning

[gilded kindle]

Played through it in its entirety, very fun

4th scene was probably my favorite

[gusty agate]

I think I missed it, what LL is this story mission for?

[old pivot]

I'm giving it a try now

I do note that LT doesn't seem to pick up that flight systems prevent you from being slowed in Zero G

[old pivot]

also, I'm a bit confused as to why the game lets me brace sometimes and not other times?

[smoky glacier]

You can Brace if the damage is more than half your max HP, or if it would Structure you and Resistance would prevent that

[icy creek]

LT limits brace triggers because otherwise it'd be prompting you constantly

[old pivot]

fair enough

on a related note to reactions: I use Spotter 3 to lock on and then get an adjacent ally to consume the lock on and shoot somebody, but neither of the goblin autopods in my team triggered

....and then a barricade printed a block in a hallway and the whole game crashed

okay, @alpine sorrel and @hidden jetty, on Gav's third mission map, whenever the Barricade prints a cube, the game crashes

[alpine sorrel]

Got it, we'll log it and get it fixed in the next update 👍

[old pivot]

I could get you an autosave, but the autosave gets corrupted whenever it happens, so that makes it a bit challengeing

[young sorrel]

BTW, when you're given the option to brace a tech attack (which works the same way, half your heat cap or would overheat you), the trigger still says "You are about to take X damage" when it should probably say "you are about to take X heat"

[hidden jetty]

this is part of why I made my own zero-g mechanics. That and I thought the mechs looked really silly flying over the rocks when they should be mag clamped to them

I can't seem to replicate the barricade crash at all - is it maybe an operating system thing? Which builds of LT do you have?

I do however have the issue that loading saves of the level just does not work - which I'm guessing has something to do with the illegal payload

==== Transitioning to campaign "user://saves/sr3.json" ====
ERROR: Decompression failed.
   at: func_PackedByteArray_decompress_dynamic (core/variant/variant_call.cpp:844)
   GDScript backtrace (most recent call first):
       [0] decompress_long_string (res://engine/utils/util.gd:732)
       [1] deserialize (res://engine/gamemaster/gamemaster_core.gd:116)
       [2] deserialize (res://engine/gamemaster/gamemaster.gd:65)
       [3] deserialize_level (res://content/campaigns/instant_action/campaign_instant_action.gd:14)
       [4] deserialize (res://engine/campaign/campaign.gd:85)
       [5] <anonymous lambda> (res://lancer_tactics.gd:50)
       [6] call_with_waitscreen (res://engine/backstage/backstage.gd:175)
       [7] process_frame (res://global.gd:73)
ERROR: Parse JSON failed. Error at line 0: Unknown error getting token
   at: parse_string (core/io/json.cpp:604)
   GDScript backtrace (most recent call first):
       [0] deserialize (res://engine/gamemaster/gamemaster_core.gd:116)
       [1] deserialize (res://engine/gamemaster/gamemaster.gd:65)
       [2] deserialize_level (res://content/campaigns/instant_action/campaign_instant_action.gd:14)
[3] deserialize (res://engine/campaign/campaign.gd:85)
       [4] <anonymous lambda> (res://lancer_tactics.gd:50)
       [5] call_with_waitscreen (res://engine/backstage/backstage.gd:175)
       [6] process_frame (res://global.gd:73)

SCRIPT ERROR: Trying to assign value of type 'Nil' to a variable of type 'Dictionary'.
          at: deserialize (res://engine/gamemaster/gamemaster_core.gd:116)
          GDScript backtrace (most recent call first):
              [0] deserialize (res://engine/gamemaster/gamemaster_core.gd:116)
              [1] deserialize (res://engine/gamemaster/gamemaster.gd:65)
              [2] deserialize_level (res://content/campaigns/instant_action/campaign_instant_action.gd:14)
              [3] deserialize (res://engine/campaign/campaign.gd:85)
              [4] <anonymous lambda> (res://lancer_tactics.gd:50)
              [5] call_with_waitscreen (res://engine/backstage/backstage.gd:175)
              [6] process_frame (res://global.gd:73)
Returning to titlescreen.
    [ event_gear_activate FIN ]                    {567} (aborted)

[ event_unit_move FIN ]                    {582} (aborted)

______ root event block was freed before it was able to complete ______

here's the error message it spits out on the console

[hidden jetty]

I fired up the windows executable using wine, and I can replicate the crash with that. The error it spits out on a crash doesn't look very useful though

60.0fps                38 ms ~| ~~ Create action event for AI ~~ FIN 

[ event_gear_activate ]                        {646}
  {unit: npcc_barricade-M5IW9M, target_tile: (16, 10), target_tiles: [(16, 10)],
 gear: npcf_mobile_printer_barricade, action: action_mobile_printer_barricade, m
ap: ...}
           | …and used [url={"action":"action_mobile_printer_barricade","gear":"
ZPXDEW","kit":"npcf_mobile_printer_barricade","unit":"M5IW9M"}]
Mobile Printer.
[ event_gear_activate FIN ]                    {646} 

               [ event_unit_apply_status ]
        {743}
  {unit: dep_barricade_cube-ATU46X, category: 21, flags: [0], event: event_unit_
spawn, map: ...}
0130:fixme:advapi:RegisterEventSourceW ((null),L".NET Runtime"): stub
0130:fixme:advapi:ReportEventW (00000000CAFE4242,0x0001,0x0000,0x00000402,0000000000000000,0x0001,0x00000000,00007FFFFE8F45D0,0000000000000000): stub
0130:err:eventlog:ReportEventW L"Application: LancerTactics.exe\n"
0130:err:eventlog:ReportEventW L"CoreCLR Version: 8.0.1525.16413\n"
0130:err:eventlog:ReportEventW L".NET Version: 8.0.15\n"
0130:err:eventlog:ReportEventW L"Description: The process was terminated due to an unhandled exception.\n"
0130:err:eventlog:ReportEventW L"Exception Info: exception code c0000005, exception address 00000001428F9473\n"
0130:err:eventlog:ReportEventW L"Stack:\n"
0130:fixme:advapi:DeregisterEventSource (00000000CAFE4242) stub
wine: Unhandled page fault on read access to 0000000000000010 at address 00000001428F9473 (thread 0130), starting debugger...
WineDbg attached to pid 012c

[hidden jetty]

it doesn't have a set LL, however there is currently a bug where the enemies won't scale properly above tier 1 so I'd pick something in the LL0-LL4 range

[hidden jetty]

I have found the source of the barricade crash! It turns out barricade cubes count as enemy units but they do not like having status effects

[near linden]

honestly, most relatable cube

[hidden jetty]

Just pushed an update to the map which fixes the crash, so those of you suffering from it can play it now

[old pivot]

I will menttion that units take fall damage when they come off the asteroids and then start flying

[old pivot]

also, uh, I'm not quite sure what the boss is trying to achieve here

oh, nevermind

lol

[hidden jetty]

yeah that's intentional

[old pivot]

Thank you for making that campaign GavstarB

it was very fun

[hidden jetty]

glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for playing :D

[odd whale]

Woah thats a different token :0
never seen the tokens bordering the witch before

So how do i update Lancer Tactics whilst keeping my data 👁️

im big stupid

[alpine sorrel]

User data is stored outside of the game's folder so you should be able to delete your downloaded folder and just run the new one

[hidden jetty]

if you're worried you can copy your game data (%AppData%/Roaming/LancerTactics or ~/.local/share/LancerTactics, idk the path mac) somewhere else for safekeeping while you upgrade

[torpid orbit]

how do I get the payload out of here?

[thin lark]

Maybe Move Payload in a way that pushes it onto one of the edges? You could also try Shift Payload onto an edge, then Move Payload to drop it?

[torpid orbit]

I cant shift it on the ledge

[weak willow]

Yeah I'm on Win10 running latest public version

Ah it's fixed, marvelous

[alpine sorrel]

Hm. What do we think the ideal solution would be? Be able to yeet/yoink payloads regardless of height? That seems exploitable.... it might be up to the map maker to make sure there's a valid possible path for the payload.

[hidden jetty]

I'd like for it to at least be possible to drop them off cliffs

also, would it be possible to have the height difference at which you are considered adjacent to a payload be increased? I've had it such that a size 2 mech is next to a payload on a 2-3 high ledge and despite supposedly being adjacent to the occupied 3d space of the mech, you still aren't able to move it

and it'd be neat if size 1 mechs could grab payloads 2 tiles/1 cube above them, since those are adjacent on the diagonal

on a harsh cliff like this, there are spots you can place a payload and then just never be able to pick it up again

[alpine sorrel]

That makes sense! I'll make a note to try it

[teal sundial]

@hidden jetty just finished the mission- that was brilliant! the story+mission objectives fit together very well and the enemy names were super good

also the trick with the aces at the end was inspired

[lethal leaf]

My uncle works at Nintendo and he said Lancer Tactics would be coming out for the Switch 2. :P

[lilac anchor]

whats the LL

ill try it soon

[old pivot]

I beat it with a LL3 group... Although we did lose the goblin at one point.

[smoky glacier]

^

[lilac anchor]

understood! o7

[young sorrel]

Started up this and something pretty funny happened: Fired Pinakas at all three Aces, and my pilot remarked "Huh, it didn't barrel roll, maybe only the squad leader can do that", when the squad leader also didn't barrel roll

[hidden jetty]

the line just triggers the first time you damage either ace 2 or 3

my guess is ace 1 hadn't taken a turn yet so it didn't have a reaction

[young sorrel]

That'd probably be it

I ran the first scene with my LL6 team before realizing the enemies were always tier 1 and restarting with an ll3 team

These scenes are excellent btw

[hidden jetty]

thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
(p.s. I think my favourite enemy name is the demolisher in mission 3)

[hidden jetty]

thanks :D

[young sorrel]

A rather annoying place for the Barricade to deploy its mobile printer

[hidden jetty]

oh that's intentional - it is still perfectly possible to beat the sitrep with it there

[young sorrel]

They blew up the payload, whoops

I imagine that happens when you kill enough of them?

[hidden jetty]

didn't play the objective smh
(but seriously though I definitely need to telegraph better that that can happen, I just can't think of a way that makes sense)

luckily you can lose most of these missions without serious consequences

[hidden jetty]

its if you structure one specific reinforcement enemy without moving the payload off its start point

[young sorrel]

Ahh

Bug Report: If a Witch is in the Danger Zone, its own attacks all count as attacking through invisibility

Also, what on earth are these Aegises doing?

[hidden jetty]

aegises 1 to 4 all take 2 heat for every missed attack. idk why they're looping like that though

[hidden jetty]

this is really funny. Bug that's only possible if you hack a weapon onto a witch

I wonder if its specifically because the vulture does self heat, and that damage is procing blur

[young sorrel]

Oh, I was firing Krakatoa at five targets

Managed to beat the scene killing the RPV aegises

(helps that they can't damage a Ghengis)

[hidden jetty]

based
(who needs optional objectives?)

[young sorrel]

Beat the five scenes with an LL3 team with no full repair in between, though lost the Ghengis in the final scene. Great stuff

[young sorrel]

I wanted to see what would happen if you delivered the payload once the Aegises were already dead, and it just kind of doesn't do anything

Also, wanted to retry scene 1 so I could do this

[hidden jetty]

awesome! Hope you had a good time :D

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: If you fall while in an area of zero G, you still take fall damage even though you presumably don't have any ground to hit. Similarly, if knockback pushes you into an area of zero G, you also take fall damage

...We're the good guys, I swear

[hidden jetty]

ye i've been trying to fix this. I think I might be able to stop the damage from falling on a structure, but idk how to prevent fall damage when you enter space

[hidden jetty]

I'm sure she didn't need that or anything 😂

[young sorrel]

You fool

Btw, I love the custom mech names

Especially "Can't hit Jack" and "Jack"

[hidden jetty]

getting them to properly display both the enemy type and a callsign was kind of a pain but so worth it

[young sorrel]

Second run went much better, won the extraction mission and didn't lose anyone even with no full repair

[teal sundial]

I also like how you just lied with the Monarch "ultra custom rainmaker" no the fuck it isnt

[young sorrel]

I mean it does have the rainmaker weapon

[hidden jetty]

I mean I changed its stats to a T2 rainmaker's, gave it missile pods, and added as many rebake ultra features as I could. It only gets one turn though, but that's so I can have other enemies in the map without going over the encounter budget

internally though, yeah its not a rainmaker and not an ultra :P

[teal sundial]

how did you change it's stats?

[young sorrel]

It also has Siege Armor which rainmakers definitely don't get

[hidden jetty]

its a PC mech so I upped the stats with HASE points

[teal sundial]

smart

[hidden jetty]

you can open it up in the map editor if you're curious how it all works

[alpine sorrel]

Damn we really need to get the LT discord up and running, we've hella outgrown this thread.

This mission looks amazing btw @hidden jetty, I'm super impressed you were able to make it with the tools available!

[lilac anchor]

truth nuke

[lilac anchor]

god damn im doing the asteroid, this map is crazy oh my god

[thin lark]

I really like how the coal piles everywhere make it look surprisingly spacey

I thought about making a space map and decided there was no way I could pull it off, so I gave up without even trying (yes, I know… this is why I don’t make nice things)

Glad to be proven so wrong :)

[hidden jetty]

the coal piles are unfortunately the only black block in the editor, apart from the wall markers which block line of sight. The look has somewhat grown on me after staring at it for so long though

[old pivot]

It'd be nice to have a star field block for that kind of thing but new blocks aren't exactly top priority

[alpine sorrel]

Ya we have space map support pretty far on the backburner, which is why I'm astonished to see one here

[gilded kindle]

it was pulled off very well i think

[lilac anchor]

absolutely

[fair pike]

Gavstar's missions are the reason I stayed up until 2:30am on a school night and still didn't finish the mini campaign

Also for future reference, I think it'd be a nice convention among mapmakers to include a 'recommended LL' for custom maps

[rain cipher]

I think the idea is opfor tier up with you so could be any LL, it's just not working at the moment

[hidden jetty]

yeah LT doesn't have preset LLs for custom maps, its meant to have the enemies scale with the lancers you bring. It just doesn't currently, so we're stuck with tier 1

that being said, I playtested them with an LL3 group
(gorgon, swallowtail, hydra, sherman - which together covered all the major things I needed to test)

[hidden jetty]

I think I already hit the character limit on the map description lol

[young sorrel]

That said, the difference in power level between LL0 and LL4 is large even if they're the same tier

Less so for the other tiers

[old pivot]

yeah, in a sense the difference between LL3 and LL6 can actually be fairly small for some builds

like, you get slightly larger numbers, but some builds don't actually need any more talents or systems than what they have at LL3

[young sorrel]

That second core bonus can be really valuable though

I do think that the difference between LL2 and LL3 is the biggest jump in power from one LL, because of the first core bonus

[fair pike]

Wait really? I thought everyone is just lazy and doesn't bother writing much xD
I don't know how the map uploading feature works exactly, but would it be theoretically possible to add like an LL[x] tag or something?

[weak willow]

The text limit is pretty short (not that it needs to be made longer) but it does take planning to condense and still provide all necessary info

[lilac anchor]

The limit is 250

[alpine sorrel]

Ok chat, what NPC class optionals should I work on

I need to start chipping away at this mountain somewhere

[thin lark]

Whichever you find most fun first

After that, at least one from each class?

[alpine sorrel]

Berserker it is then

[tepid temple]

I am not acquainted with the rebake but as a GM I must advocate for the position that maximizes player suffering: the Witch

[teal sundial]

wolfhound missiles

[alpine sorrel]

Ooo right right

[lethal leaf]

They said maximizes player suffering, not Olive's.

[small panther]

It's either gonna be surprisingly easy or so horrible you'll be glad it wasn't left for last I think

Also the Ultra's Wolfhound missile and the Rainmaker's Hound missile are slightly different iirc

[hidden jetty]

the thing I love about the rebake missiles is that because they have an effect that makes it harder to give them forced movement, it is actually more effective to puppet the enemy who deployed them into the missile than it is to puppet the missile into the enemy

[small panther]

All as it should be

[lilac anchor]

Rainmakers, or cataphracts

[lilac anchor]

also if we do get an LT discord that would be pretty cool, or some kind of forums

[alpine sorrel]

working on it this very afternoon. still a few weeks out with the holidays immenent, but it'll happen

[lilac anchor]

groovy!

[fair pike]

Very considerate fire, to stand at the same height as its peers

[fair pike]

Also, small nitpicky thing I noticed:
Weapons like this, that have the overkill status, technically can only deal minimum damage + 1. In this case since this damage is 1d6 + 1 but we can't roll a 1 on the damage die so it'll always be at least 3.

Obviously not a big deal, just something I realized

[alpine sorrel]

On a related note, I've been skeptical of using damage ranges instead of showing the dice since the start... but BG3 does it this way. Does anyone have strong opinions one way or the other?

[fair pike]

Honestly, I'd argue it depends on how much work it is. As is, it works just fine, if it irks you and it isn't too much work, maybe a toggleable setting?

Also, found out you can puppet system immobilized characters, while RAW teeeechnically fine, I don't know if it's intended?

[stable smelt]

immobilized and slowed only stop voluntary movements, and I don't think LT breaks from core on that?

[burnt frigate]

correct

[old pivot]

Ironically, puppet systems is more impacted by Prone than it is by slowed or immobilized

[burnt frigate]

Puppet Systems very specifically notes that its movement is involuntary, it simply has a specific clause for proccing reaction attacks unlike most involuntary movement

[smoky glacier]

Showing the ranges on attack has felt insightful; it's helped me internalize damage ranges on weapons whose dice are already familiar

I've had a couple moments of "oh, shit, that's right, a GMS Heavy Melee does do 3-13"

Especially helpful vis a vis internalizing Damage Relative To HP. Looking at "3-13 to a 15 HP target" is easier to judge than "2d6+1 to a 15 HP target" in some ways

[weak willow]

not a strong opinion, but I am of the opinion that BG3's damage range is more useful

[alpine sorrel]

cool cool

[old pivot]

the overkill weapons could just have the low end of the range in red or something to show that if you get that result, you take heat and reroll?

[mild jay]

Are any of the weapon dice formulas known to have an unintuitive average result?

Since the dawn of Catan’s popularity I generally assume it to be between the minimum and maximum values but dice probabilities aren’t a strong suit

[tepid temple]

Any attack with multiple dice is going to form a bell curve

[old pivot]

well, the more dice you have, the more it's going to trend to the average

[tepid temple]

Which is... a thing that I don't think the average person will be aware of?

[old pivot]

there's also the slightly weird thing where a multi-dice weapon will tend to get better performance out of a Critical Hit than a single-dice weapon?

[tepid temple]

Like it's not some ultra-advanced statistics tech... but I really don't think the average player will be aware of this, or atleast keep it in mind most of the time

[old pivot]

a crit will move the average of a d6 weapon from 3.5 to 4.47

but a 3d6 weapon will move from 10.5 to 14.27

hypothetically it might be important to show the dice rolled/you might get some weird distributions if you had any weapons that dealt multiple d3 damage... but first party books have no such weapon, so it doesn't matter

[stable smelt]

there's like one exotic iirc

[gilded kindle]

maybe you could show the damage range like you do now but just have dice rolled in small text next to it?

[stable smelt]

(reaper assault cannon is 2d3 or 4d3 depending)

[proud dirge]

tbh i dont strongly care either way though i prefer the dice. but i think you display the dice in the weapon selection part of pilot profile, so it should be fine as is

could be nice to have both, but again, ease of implementation is the question on such a small thing as this

[alpine sorrel]

cool if there's no strong opinions one way or another, I'll likely leave as-is, with a possiblity of adding the full dice to the tooltip or something

I've added the overkill min increase to our "UI Enhancements" ticket list... but there's like 40 tickets in that list lol so I don't think I'll be able to get to it anytime soon

[mild jay]

Yeah. Ultimately lots of games have been doing it this way for years cause it does work just fine. But they’re also usually games with more straightforward dice mechanics so I figured I’d throw the half-baked thought out there to see if anyone could cook

[tepid temple]

I like seeing the dice and doing the mental calcs for the average and being able to get a vibe for how the different tiers of weapons are in different dice brackets personally

[hazy ferry]

I generally just assume that Puppet Systems is weird about slow/immobilized because it's HORUS Magic

[glad lotus]

I think the damage ranges are more immediately useful to people who aren't dice-brained.

Also, an idea for some UI sugar there- graphs showing the expected damage distribution? That would make it more clear when it's flat odds (1d6) vs a curve (multi dice). I've seen some games do that for things like damage/accuracy vs range.

[lilac anchor]

what other tickets u got?

[alpine sorrel]

😵‍💫

some of these we've already done actually, now that I look at them

[lilac anchor]

Goodness!

That’s a lot huh

Okay it’s funny that one of them is just eyebrows

[fair pike]

That is a lot, damn

But good on you for sticking with it!

Now I'm curious, what system are you most proud of so far? And why? (also how does it work? 👀)

[weak willow]

Yeah that one raised an eyebrow

[thin lark]

You can’t emote properly without full eyebrow mobility

You can get close, for sure, but it’s never 100%

[alpine sorrel]

Probably still the event queue: https://wick.works/devlog/event-system-aka-how-to-handle-nested-youve-activated-my-trap-card-triggers

Two years later, the only two things it's really been weak at capturing are "strong attachments" (mule harness, symbiosis, payload moves) and auras (need to manually add/remove buffs as units move in and out of range). I wish I'd come up with specialized systems for both of those instead of building up tooling to sort of allow the event queue to do them.

Oh the sitrep trigger system I also feel clever about working out, though I suspect that may be less deserved lol because there's such a steep learning curve from the player POV. But being able to express all sitreps and the tutorial without having to write code directly is a huge win.

[thin lark]

No, you should still feel very proud about this.

Those of us that can already code can still make stuff a lot faster with a lovely robust trigger system like Lancer Tactics has, and it sits in the top 10 of games with very accessible and deep scenario editors as a result. People who don’t even want to think about coding can still open up a scenario someone else has written, learn from it, make tweaks, and eventually do some (edit: most? All? Who knows!) stuff by themselves

I can count without running out of fingers the number of games, total, that have such a system that works really well - they have always and without exception had a long tail of motivated scenario makers and modders and such, probably as a direct result. I honestly think you should be really happy with what you’ve got in LT already, and it’s clear you’ve plans to add more, which is amazing.

As it stands if I wanted to do an entire dating sim in lancer tactics conversation engine I could probably do it, right now. I won’t, because so much effort (at least to make something good rather than just an example), but… you could!

[hidden jetty]

the events system is a joy to use, I like it a lot :D

[hidden jetty]

a dating sim mission where you get to romance the enemy pilots while you battle them is inspired ngl. I'm not going to make it but someone should

[tepid temple]

Is this Heaven Will Be Mine (Ive never played)

[teal sundial]

I have and yeah

[teal sundial]

the obvious play here is to steal Mechs With Feelings and remake it in Lancer tactics

[gilded kindle]

I picked that one up a while back, been meaning to actually play it

I think i got it on sale

[alpine sorrel]

whoa, that's a deep cut! made me go back and double check that it was unlisted on my itch page. how'd you run across it?

[teal sundial]

its on your website as a thumbnail but i remember seeing a more in depth thing about it at some point.

[sage remnant]

how do you brace in this game?

[thin lark]

It asks you when you get an opportunity. Should always happen when you're losing more than half your HP, or you're about to take a structure

There have been suggestions that it should ask always if you have any sort of brace-enabled talent or system.

Bug: You can select gear which requires one license, save the pilot, and remove those licenses and still have the gear equipped to your mech.

[lethal leaf]

The same glitch is present in Comp/Con, so it's a hard problem.

[thin lark]

yeah, nor is it particularly an urgent one to solve.

[lilac anchor]

occasionally you can be asked to brace when taking stress inducing heat too, but idk if that does anything

[smoky glacier]

Brace gives resistance to Damage, Burn, and Heat.

[burnt frigate]

yeah, you CAN brace tech attacks, or anything else that's an attack which deals heat

[young sorrel]

I actually do it quite a bit because enemies are quite likely to try to tech attack you if they see you're near your heat cap

Though generally towards the end of a sitrep, but saving 2 repairs is almost always worth it

[hidden jetty]

personally I think whether it should ask for brace every time should be an option in settings

[hidden jetty]

I think this is a feature tbh. I use it on comp//con occasionally to represent exotics, since it's going to give you the "unlicensed equipment" warning regardless

[thin lark]

It might be, but I got no warning, it just happily let me save and load it like that

[alpine sorrel]

yeah that's on our list to enforce, eventually

[thin lark]

It’s probably fine if it’s not strictly enforced as long as there’s a warning about it somewhere.

It doesn’t come up when you’re making characters whole cloth, but it’s quite common if you’re doing them license level by license level to respec some things as you go

[lilac anchor]

if an NPC has the Ship template, does it just get grown to size 4? Does it become a unique sprite?

how will that work?

[alpine sorrel]

great question

currently the vague plan is to make a custom 3d spaceship mesh and use it for all ship template npcs

since I think once you get to size 4, the 2d billboards stop being as effective as plausibly taking up that space

vehicles will probably get swapped-in sprites still

but both templates have been de-prioritized because of their additional complexities

I think only squad is lower than them

[lilac anchor]

sounds about right

i support the idea of a unique ship sprite

/mesh

and yeah them coming super far down makes sense

[thin lark]

I love the squad template, but, uh... it's probably not the best balanced, either. It's -weird-

When (or even if - the game isn't really lacking without them) you get there, you may wish to look at how everything else is, and consider if you want one of the many squad reworks.

[glad lotus]

Yeah, I admit I've been wondering how the team is going to tackle this! Maybe a common "hull" with some greebles (weapons/tools/modules) that get swapped out based on class or something? Basically the Retrograde approach, haha.

[small panther]

I think you should do Squad Kits actually

[glad lotus]

Squad Kits are pretty based

(Ref: https://reconus.itch.io/lancer-squad-kits)

[small panther]

While squad kits are really cool, 66 optionals

I said it as a joke for a reason, and that reason is scope creep

Like, please do not do this, for your own sake
Just let the inevitable modders handle it

[lilac anchor]

^^^^ True!!!

[tiny stag]

a Benchy with the normal sprite sloppily used as its texture